Slashdot Mirror
Nokia: Google's Nexus 7 Tablet Infringes Our Patents
walterbyrd writes with a story at The Inquirer outlining the latest volley in the patent wars surrounding mobile hardware, this time aimed at the new Aus-built Nexus 7 tablet from Google by Nokia, in which the company's spokesman says, "Nokia has more than 40 licensees, mainly for its standards essential patent portfolio, including most of the mobile device manufacturers. Neither Google nor Asus is licensed under our patent portfolio. 'Companies who are not yet licensed under our standard essential patents should simply approach us and sign up for a license.'"
Can't prove it but we all know this is another one of Microsoft's proxy wars.
Apparently.
Asus has been making the transformer line for years. If Asus is not licensing required patents for Wifi, why has Nokia delayed on demands for so long?
Do they have any left after selling so many off to patent trolls?
Apparently so, if they're turning into litigious patent trolls themselves.
Ahhhhh, feels good to be able to use the third person to refer to them - now Nokia-free for 2 days! (But still a dedicated n900 fan.)
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
FTFA
It's believed that the patents in question have to do with the IEEE 802.11 WiFi standard
$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
Ok, Google and ASUS may not be licensed.... But I wonder about Motorola Mobility (if it has to do with IEEE 802.11 WiFi standard, that "belongs" to WiFi Alliance, well, Motorola Mobility is part of it.. and Motorola is Googles now).
I guessed that this was probably something GSM related, but TFA says "It's believed that the patents in question have to do with the IEEE 802.11 WiFi standard". It's hard to imagine that Asus doesn't already have a license for essential wifi patents, they must have sold millions of devices over the last few years that have featured wifi as standard.
Bit odd that this has not been an issue until the moment that they release a Google branded device.
MS's lapdog attacks again.
What a sad end for an amazing 130 years old company...
Silly Patent Thievery You. All you had to do was ask. Tsk. Anyone else sick of the "MY patent - no MY patent" douchebaggery?
When he said, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ5cNqXgKUo
Fuck off and die already... A shame too, I really used to like their hardware... Why oh why does patent trolling have to become the new business model for dying companies...
"It's not that I don't understand what your going through. Its that I just don't care"
The whole massive patent portfolios thing was hinged on mutually assured destruction. Everyone was violating at least one of everyone's patents, but as long as you either had enough of an armory yourself, or paid your dues to the patent portfolios, you were safe (disregarding wild patent trolls). Sort of like the actual Cold War - as long as you had enough nukes, or allied yourself with someone who did, you were safe (disregarding "rogue nations" and proxy wars).
Well, this Patent Cold War is becoming a Patent World War.
It's been going on for a while now, ever since the smartphone lawsuits first stated, but it's ramping up. They're coming faster and faster now, and going for bigger and bigger things. Pretty soon, you'll be seeing injunctions against entire companies, or multi-trillion-dollar fines.
I expect, in the end, most of those involved will end up out-of-business. And, hopefully, it will end with a massive patent system reform.
Even though it's got nothing to do with Apple, I'm still going to blame them anyway since, as we all know, everyone copies off Apple, be it rounded corners or patent trolling
Summation 2
The case of Everyone v. Everyone is set to begin!
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
The way things are going, we will all need a license to post comments online, as it will infringe on someones intelectual property.
ASUS have about a million different models of tablet and laptop and what-not out there. They've been doing this for donkey's years - how can they not have the proper licenses for the tech at this point? Not believable.
I used to be a total Nokia Fanboi. Hell, I use a Nokia N9 as my everyday cell phone. I cried like John Boehner when Elop took over and made Nokia Microsoft's bitch.
Now I'm mad! I just ordered one of those Google 7 tablets, and my former love, Nokia is trying to stop me from having it!
Phuque!
Where is this world going?
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Nokia claiming that "their" wifi patent is being infringed? It's already been decided that Australia's CSIRO invented Wifi and that and manufacturers using the technology would need to licence it from them. http://slashdot.org/story/12/04/01/2011245/australian-wifi-inventors-win-us-legal-battle
So, basically, you're an utter fucking moron. I am not sure it's useful knowledge, but I don't mind picking up a bit of trivia now and then.
That's the cost to US taxpayers* for all this patent trolling. It wouldn't be so egregious if there was actually some legitimacy to the claims but it's all about competing by litigation, which ought to be as illegal as stealing actual inventions.
[*] - http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/new-study-same-authors-patent-trolls-cost-economy-29-billion-yearly/
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
...No I don't. Because most of their stuff is low end crap. Samsung and Apple ate their lunch.
B&N warned that this attack from Nokia and MOSAID was coming. B&N said this was conspired with Microsoft. Microsoft's Steven Elop (Nokia CEO) is doing his former company's bidding. Now we see what B&N warned about mestastisizing. brace yourselves. The days of writing your own code and having it become successfull without paying a patent license fee for your OWN code is coming to an end. Thanks particularly to MS and their partners oh and Apple. And of course the geeks will sit back and take it lying down. I for one has influenced a few hundred people away from Microsoft and Apple products. Will continue that push along with more donations to the EFF.
I guess litigation is their plan B for when WP8 tanks. Who would have guessed?
There's not a lot to go in the Inquirer article (there never is in my experience), but isn't it possible that Nokia's stance is entirely reasonable? Maybe it does hold standards essential patents relevant to the Nexus tablet and is entitled to FRAND payments. It's not threatening to seek injunctions. On the face of it, Nokia is seeking payment for licenses that it believes it is entitled to.
Not sure how we get from here to alleging Microsoft-led conspiracies... At least wait for the Google/Asus responses before taking sides.
And the saddest part is how surprised I am; which is to say not at all. In fact I will be surprised if Nokia is the last one to make claims about Google's tablet. No company can announce any new significant mobile device without patents hitting the fan.
That makes it blindingly clear that these patents utterly fail every possible test as far as non-obviousness, inventiveness, etc.
Um, this isn't an issue of rounded corners or unsubstantial software patents. Nokia was a pioneer of mobile wireless technologies, none of which were obvious at the time. These patents were then incorporated into an operability standard, not the other way around.
This, along with Apple's latest bullshit, is all it took to convince me to buy the Nexus 7 tablet. And I'm now seriously considering the newly upgraded Galaxy Nexus phone (4.0.4) as well.
Google has enough patents in his portfolio to blow this fucked-company out of the water and finish it off for good.
Even their legal strategies are taking a chapter or two from the Apple playbook... They sat on their asses and missed the mobile boat, but instead of pursuing original ideas and providing competition, they'll just try to slow Android down with frivolous patent lawsuits with the ultimate target to create a void where their outdated and locked-down toy OS can compete on a tilted playing field. I'm pretty sure they'll move in to try and land some free punches once Apple starts going after Android again. Evidently Apple won't even peep about Microsofts' tablet products, as they both want to split up the market among themselves, after eliminating Google by using every dirty trick in the book.
Such cowardice of Microsoft, having a once deeply-respected company like Nokia do its dirty work. But it's not surprising in the current climate.
Enjoy your walled gardens, as an unlimited stream of frivolous software patent suits (and the USPTO will make sure there are enough to go around) will make sure only those survive.
Hahah, based on your comment history, you must be off your meds. Why such hate? I guess that's what being on Slashdot for so long does to you, although the parent poster has apparently been around for much longer and manages to not be such an asshole.
Hi, I'm a peon. I can send letters, emails, and texts to my representative and I just get a formed response back.
Frankly, I don't know enough to go all point by point - disputing- what they say.
As far as I'm concerned as a consumer, I just take it or leave it. Hence why I'm buying less and less of - well - everything.
Corporate America is a rip off. No exceptions.
If something goes wrong they don't have anything left to lose anyway
The Nexus 7 also violates Nokia’s patent for “a method for losing money on hardware sales.”
*Going down the drain... lalalalalaa*
Doesnt broadcom make the wireless chipset? Doesnt broadcom pay for a license and pass the costs on to manufacturers when they buy said chipset? Why doesnt google just buy nokia pay double what its worth if they have to dump windows phone and stop the insanity?
Public support for patents appear to be premised on the idea that patents protect inventions. An invention is generally understood to be some useful thing like the lightbulb or the telephone. The reality, of course, is that most patents don't cover standalone objects but bits and pieces of them.
For a company near deaths door it sure do sound like it...
It is a sign of utter desperation when a company resorts to abusing patents in an anti-competitive way, like this.
The rats are on floating above deck, as the Nokia ship sinks below the waves, full steam ahead; the deranged captain still screaming that he his heading in the right direction (and perhaps in a twisted sort of way, he is - to the bottom of the sea, never to be seen again)
So far, all we have is a statement from Nokia. They are not taking legal action, trying for an injunction or anything. From what I can see and read on the article, it seems Nokia is only trying to force Asus/Google to come and talk to them, which is ok in my book. ... and at worst (and thus, correct), stupid.
Trying to compare this to the stunt Apple is pulling is, at best, sensationalism
morcego
Can't prove it but we all know this is another one of Microsoft's proxy wars.
Never know, Apple might have caught on and started a few themselves.
Apple had to license the Nokia patents a while back. It is likely the agreement specified that if there were royalties they could not be larger than anyone else pays. This puts the onus on Nokia to defend it's patents in the future or apple might clawback the agreement.
More to the point, noika's patent portfolio is prodigious and that R&D was not created for trolling but to pave the early and future path of mobile. It is thus not surprising that many things we now (a few years later) take for granted were patentable innovations not very long ago, and Nokia holds them. Even though Nokia is now a crippled weakling in the smart phone market, you have to remember they once were a top athlete before they started taking Performance enhancing drugs (windows). Their future return to profitability is going to depend on a steady patent royalty stream to be able to attract new investors.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Hey look, we're has-beens and now all we can do is patent trolling. Looking forward to buying my "Nokia" branded light bulbs.
With a big chest of patents, and no consumer base left, a mere appendage of MS, and a shadow of its former awesome self, MS will use them, to troll half the planet, in a story that will make the SCO debacle look like a children's birthday party.
Poor Nokia. :/
I hope everyone who works/worked there, is leaving, and forming a new company making successors to the N900.
Has Samsung pulled their head out of their ass yet? The last Samsung phone I had (M900 - Moment) was a total piece of shit.
I hope it gets to the point where no devices can be launched on time. Hopefully then someone will pull their damned finger out and fix the patent problems.
Basically, it depends on how google has added wifi. When good has made their own chip, then indeed they do need to pay nokia.
I would be willing to bet however that google is using a pre-certified broadcom module or similar. In which case, they just plug it in, stick on the device, contains FCC ID blah blah and Bobs your uncle. No need license anything. Thats one of the points of going with a module.
I would be willing to bet however that google is using a certified Broadcom module, in which case, they just plug it in, stick on the device, contains FCC ID blah blah and Bobs your uncle. No need license anything.
My Galaxy S2 Epic (sprint touchscreen) kicks ass. I have it rooted and run an Ice Cream Sandwich rom. Excellent phone. I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade to the Galaxy S3 once 4g LTE becomes available in my area.
The Moment is ~3 years ago. It was a fair phone at the time, a bit chunky. It had a decent processor from what I heard. Both Samsung hardware and Android have come a long way.
[PJ: So, Nokia is suing over a FRAND license. That explains something I was wondering about. With Apple and Microsoft telling the ITC that FRAND licensors should never be allowed to seek an injunction, Nokia sent in a letter [PDF] of support for Microsoft against Motorola, but unlike other supporters of Microsoft it didn't go that far on the FRAND-injunction issue. In footnote 1, it wrote:
"Nokia owns thousands of patents that have been declared essential to various industry standards. Yet in spite of the fact that Nokia has participated in several International Trade Commission investigations as both complainant and respondent, Nokia has never sought an exclusionary order before this Commission based on the infringement of a declared-essential patent. In Nokia’s view, the RAND commitment would not require the relinquishment of the right to seek or enforce an injunction in exceptional circumstances such as the total refusal to negotiate with the holder of an essential patent or the complete refusal to fulfill, or even acknowledge the existence of, a party’s FRAND payment obligations on patents that are valid, essential, and infringed." As you see, it is holding its options open. And suing Google/Android is very much part of the Nokia-Microsoft partnership, I've long said. If you won't buy their phones, they'll narrow your choices or make money from taxing the successful. Do you love patents yet?]
But it seems that Microsoft has stepped up to the plate. FWIW: I was right about Google being sued over this. And the lawsuit is coming from the same patent abuse machine.
Microsoft chose scox as a proxie for the same reason. Scox was dead in the water before they filed their lawsuit against IBM - about ten years ago now.
Scox had gobs of msft money to gain, and nothing to lose.
Nokia is the sequel to scox.
Nokia, after losing the mobile market due to lack of innovation and years of changing the power and earphone jacks on each new model phone so as to attempt to tie customers to their proprietary plugs, is broke and a loser in the market. They're grasping at straws to stay solvent. I am saying nothing about the merits of the patent dispute, just saying they're starving and desperate and nobody should be surprised to see how low they stoop. They simply missed the boat on software and the market spoke loud and clear about their proprietary plugs. Let big daddy Microsoft take care of you :) Oh, and good luck there :)
Just because you bought low end crap doesnt mean Nokia does not make quality phone. I love my N9, and I wish they would make more like it.
Reading comprehension is important, you should work on it. I have one of the best Android phones on the market the Galaxy S2 (Sprint Epic Touch version).
And I said MOST of Nokia's phones are shit. And they are. For every one decent phone Nokia builds they make ten pieces of crap aimed at the pay-as-you-go no contracts market.
I know it's an old phone. I just had such a horrible experience with it that I moved to HTC phones after it. :) My problem wasn't with it's age or power. It was with things like random shutdowns, hard locks, the infamous radio issue, etc...
(Microsoft || Nokia) ... same company.
Enough said.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"