Slashdot Mirror
You Can't Bypass the UI Formerly Known As Metro On Windows 8
colinneagle writes with this excerpt from Network World: "The final build of Windows 8 has already leaked to torrent sites, which is giving the propellerheads a chance to dig through the code. One revelation will probably not sit well with enterprise customers: you can't bypass the don't-call-it-Metro UI. Normally, you have to boot Windows 8 and when the tiled desktop UI (formerly known as Metro) came up, you had to click on one of the boxes to launch Explorer. Prior builds of Windows 8 allowed the user to create a shortcut so you bypass Metro and go straight to the Explorer desktop. Rafael Rivera, co-author of the forthcoming Windows 8 Secrets, confirmed to Mary Jo Foley at ZDNet that Microsoft does indeed block the boot bypass routine from prior builds. He also believes that Microsoft has blocked the ability for administrators to use Group Policy to allow users to bypass the tiled startup screen. There had been hope that Microsoft would at least relent and let corporate users have a bypass, if only for compatibility's sake."
...Windows 8.
Didnt we just cover this very thoroughly yesterday?
....Make people need you. - bill gates
And the way you make people need you is to not teach them to fish, but limit what they can do for themselves and make the rest so difficult that they have to need you.
There had been hope that Microsoft would at least relent and let corporate users have a bypass, if only for compatibility's sake.
Balmer! Its the guy that is wrong, yet again!
Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
I hope it won't be that bad. If the Interface Formerly Known As Metro is as bad as the Ribbon, I'll struggle for a while to adapt, and then probably go back to the previous version or install Classic Shell. I don't mind experimentation with something new. Maybe it really is better. But I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't provide a "classic" mode for people who are willing to try, but eventually decide they like the previous arrangement better. How many of you stuck with the default theme for Windows XP? Anyone? Can you imagine if there was no way to change it?
And to not allow it or make it easy for enterprise users. That's just cruel. Is Microsoft *trying* to increase training costs for companies?
Even if this is true, how about Shell replacements? Will they block those too? If they do, this might indeed be a dark age for windows.
Metro-tweak-tool, please?
Check out my virtual machine: http://viuavm.org/
It's ridiculous to even think that Microsoft is following Apple by locking stuff down just because they think 'That Which Should Not Be Named' is the most efficient way to do things. Hell, even Apple only started to just merge iOS and Mac OS X and that too very subtly and slowly. MSFT has absolutely jumped right into it. It is going to be a disaster, no matter what.
It's not horrid on a touch-enabled device. The problem comes when you try to use an interface obviously designed for touch with no touch input. Sure, you can use it with a mouse, but that just feels awkward and weird.
Windows 8 is probably going to be amazing on tablets, but i don't see why Microsoft tries to force it on desktop users. In their stead, I would just keep the Windows 7 UI, and put that on top of the upgraded codebase. Or if they want to tie the platforms together so badly, make the OS detect the type of device it is installed on, and use the appropriate interface (Not-Metro for touch-based devices, regular for non-touch-based ones).
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
As someone who actually has a copy of Windows 8, TFA and TFS are correct and the OP is wrong. Microsoft has removed the previous methods of booting straight to the desktop.
They want people to make what was formerly known as Metro apps to play in the new UI, because they'll also work on the tablet & phone version. The goal is to have a unified platform to boost the amount of applications on the tablet and help it sell.
Of course, making Metroized apps means they don't work in Windows 7, which now that XP is gradually going away will be the dominant enterprise OS. And of course Metro is so unpopular with desktop users that the tablets are going to get a bad name just due to bad name recognition. So it's a risky strategy at best.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Or they can just ... not install Windows 8, and stick with Windows 7, which'll be even faster on the new, more powerful hardware.
There's always another way, you know.
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
I can understand why Microsoft decided to remove that option, though I disagree.
They want to the users to give Metro a fair try by living with it for a while. It is different enough where most people only see it once until they set an option to get rid of it. I've been using Windows since 3.0 and the first thing I do at a new job is get rid of the XP theme and set things up to look classic.
I think this is a mistake for Microsoft. Forced changes without easy options to go back angers users. Ubuntu and Unity are in a similar situation. Between Microsoft and Canonical trying to promote a tablet desktop on non-tablet PCs I think Apple and the KDE will be the winners.
On my formerly Ubuntu box at home the change motivated me to give the KDE and Kubuntu a look for the first time in years. Luckily I really like it and am now unlikely to go back to Ubuntu and Unity(or GNOME )
It's called Windows 7. You can expect it to be a lot more popular in the enterprise then 8.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
It's not horrid
A sentiment I find often associated with various versions of Windows. Just yesterday I was speaking with a former Vietnam POW who'd had his fingernails pulled out with pliers, and he commented that the time he bought a mid-range laptop in the early days of Vista was 'pretty fucking awful but not the worst thing that has ever happened to me'.
So good job Microsoft!
While I admire the desire to be really creative and shit and try to come up with a cool "new" interface, functionality still remains one of the key desirable attributes for a user interface. We can thank Apple and all the Apple wannabe copycats for useless, ridiculous new ways of doing things that are less accurate and more time consuming by design. Who said that dragging page after page of stacked thumbnails as if they were pages from a book is an improvement over a plain old list? Especially when the constraints are so narrow that you often end up "dragging" two at a time. Want an example? Here, go look for a specific picture on this site. Have fun. Oh it looks cute. It's not functional. You will waste time waving your mouse back and forth trying to get the picture you wanted. A UI is supposed to be something that helps you, not something you have to fight with.
Now I'm not saying this is how (formerly known as) Metro is going to work, I haven't used the beta, and I've only seen a couple screen-shots. But I understand that Microsoft is going for the "smart phone" look and feel, and that means lots of big colorful buttons you have to drag everywhere, and crap like this. And considering what they've done with "Ribbons" when they obfuscated their "Office" suite - and I'm talking about the 2007 version, I refuse to "upgrade" and see what else they managed to fuck up, I can't imagine this UI will be better. I remember an argument in the late 80's about how computers hadn't really lived up to their promise of greater productivity in the office. Well Microsoft, I guess we'll have to congratulate you for lowering the bar even more...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
it will turn out that the final build of Windows 8 does have such restrictions.
But you will be able to remove said restrictions if you buy the Pro Gold Game of the Year Ultimate edition for $389 instead of the regular $89 "Vanilla" edition.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
It never was "Metro", it seems. I found this article... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/10/metro_is_modern_ui_now/ Also found this, a bit off topic, but get ready for £the "Surface2"... http://m.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/microsoft-is-already-working-on-surface-2-tablets-1091358
I feel like a police negotiator desperately trying to talk a man out of shooting his foot off.
Repeat after me Microsoft: The desktop market is not the smartphone market, and any attempt to ram it down reluctant consumers throats will turn it destroy what is still your biggest cash cow. http://waysofteaandfailure.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/the-many-problems-of-windows-8.html
This seems to me that it is going to be another massively under-adopted operating system. You'd think they would have learned their lesson from Vista. Don't force unnecessary restrictions on usability.
...the year of the Linux desktop, because if this doesn't turn people away from Windows in droves, I don't know what will.
oh come on AC. Show us your true feelings. Even M$ shows everyone that yes you cant boot to a legacy desktop but using KB shortcuts you can remove the new desk for the legacy one.
That's a nice double standard. If that were Linux people would say "yes but if you have to follow cryptic steps from the knowledge base then clearly Linux isn't ready for the desktop. Users just want to get their work done not relearn a new interface!".
Maybe next year will be the Year of the Windows Desktop?
This is going to be a fantastic sales point...
...for Apple. It may also be what drives several former Windows-centric corporations into Linux.
All the world's an analog stage, and digital circuits play only bit parts.
That only works for a limited period of time. Eventually, they stop selling Windows 7, and eventually they drop support for it.
Pretty much that. The Metro team has created such an epic fail that now they see the need to force it on everybody since nobody seems to actually want to use it. My first reaction to Windows 8 was "if I get it I'll just turn that crap off". Now it seems I can't, so I'll just ignore Windows 8.
I use windows 7 and there are a lot of things you can't do on windows 7 that you could do in windows XP or Vista. For example, you could manually organize folders in windows in those operating systems. I mean, literally pick up folders and move them from one side of a window to the other. This is something I've gotten used to doing since windows 3.1. So I was deeply annoyed when window 7 disallowed it. Finally I found some registry hacks that would re-enable the feature.
Beyond that, there are full shell replacements for windows. I expect that using shell replacements might become more and more the thing to do on windows systems. On top of everything else, some of the shell replacements are much more configurable then windows shell meaning that if you want to hide features from users you can literally remove them from the GUI entirely.
A combination of those two factor should make more then a few companies look at shell replacements.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
How long before something like XFCE is ported to Windows? I know KDE was almost able to run as the Windows shell a few years ago, maybe there's enough reason to make it happen now.
Yeah. After all, we were forced to go to Vista because support for XP was discontinued. Oh, wait. That's not what happened at all.
Well, almost. I've got Classic Shell installed on the leaked version of Win8 Enterprise N. What happens is that it'll load Metro for a fraction of a second and then CS takes me back to the old "desktop" environment complete with start menu.
So it's not a complete bypass but it's close enough for my purposes.
If, like me, you prefer the Win7 start menu's look to the default Win98/2000 look Classic Shell provides, there's a skin to make that possible.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Yep, I was waiting for someone to notice that.
It's not even tagged Dupe on the main set of tags.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
This is the most ignorant, useless release of Windows 8 ever made. Change for change sakes it seems.
I recently tried installing it on my netbook with a resolution of 1024x600 (the typical netbok resolution) and I cannot run a SINGLE metro apps because my resolution is not at least 1024x768. What is that bullshit? The apps can scale at all? They expected this to be on some older devices that supported it, so why the limitation? I know future Surface devices will have to meet a certain standard, but why throw compatibility out the window? Why not an 800x600 resolution minimum? That way you'll know everyone within a reasonable time period (not the short time period of 2 years ago where my netbook sits) can use the full features.
There reasoning I think is so app developers don't have to cater to tons of resolutions, which is fine. FOR A MOBILE DEVICE.
They expect Windows 8 to be used on Desktops but completely cripple usability.
It's true I only really use the start menu for searching programs and rarely go straight to the icon itself. But the search is even worse in Windows 8! I hit the WinKey and start typing. I type in "device" looking for the Device Manager. Nothing. There are some metro quicklinks for installing hardware and whatnot, but not the Device Manager. Not until I search "device m" does it show up. Meanwhile in Wndows 7, I type just "d" and there it is, as well as everything else that starts with "d".
Now the sad part is, I would use it if it still had the start menu. It runs wonderfully on my netbook. It scrolls smooth and everything is snappy.
But it's useless. The XP I ran before worked better.
And all this crap they're giving to corporate users is hopefully gonna hurt them. It'll run terrible, it'll *feel* terrible. Maybe they've just decided to give this area to linux like Apple has and just focus on consumers. Well that's fine and dandy but the Apple user experience on a laptop or desktop is not in any way horrendous, while Metro leaves me feeling frustrated.
Can't wait for Windows 9 now. Its sure to be good.
is why MS is so determined to force this issue. What's their payoff?
ownership/domination of sw supply chain.
+getting apps made for their tablet and phone OS.
it's like they looked at what they're lacking 1.5 years ago.. and then just ran with this strategy. the payoff for microsoft is getting statistics on all metro sw installed on consumer devices, getting a hundred bucks from all developers and getting a piece of every sw sale made. and oh yeah killing os sw that doesn't have a license compatible with being sold through such a system.
only thing they've done in corporate pr all year has been to get people to make metro apps to be distributed over metro store... if it's a good fit for said developers product hasn't bothered them at all.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Given that there's already apps out there to let you run Android apps on desktop OSes, why not switch corporate systems to Android?
What benefit would that give them? They'd still need the underlying OS, plus there's hardly any desktop-oriented corporate-friendly software for Android. Not only that, but there is no way of remotely managing all the Android-software with proper security settings and all.
Oh, wait. That's not what happened at all.
It kind of did. Windows 7 is really Vista Service Pack 3. Which Enterprises are moving to. Windows XP has two years of support left.
If you hate the UI changes in Windows Vista, which Windows 7 kept, and you don't like Metro, then you are kind of screwed.
That only works for a limited period of time. Eventually, they stop selling Windows 7, and eventually they drop support for it.
But by then Windows 9 will be out fixing the Metro problem and/or Mac and/or Linux migrations will be viable options.
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Yeah yeah, I'm primarily a Windows guy and have actually been damned pleased with Win 7.
But this does appear to be in their usual cycle of releasing garbage first (ME, Vista) just to make some fairly decent release soon following (XP, Win 7).
As a Windows admin I don't even bother with the first releases of their seemingly usual 2 part deal. Not even worth it.
Kinda suspicious since they are also banning open source applications from their moble app store.
I think they just try an experiment. Who cares that one version is disliked by users, this has happened so many times already anyway. They still sell the previous version and they'll make a next one after that in which they'll do what the users want again, like Windows 7 was (disclaimer: posted by someone who has not actually used Windows since the XP version so may have no idea what he's talking about).
Am I alone here? I think it is pretty cool. I hear a lot of "change for the sake of change" being bad around here, but why is staying the same for the sake of staying the same a good thing? One of the biggest draws (for me) to Linux was that it was something new and different. Why are people suddenly so set in their ways that anything remotely different from their crufty old UI is instantly the worst thing ever? What happened to the spirit of "new and cool"? Maybe Metro isn't for everybody, and maybe it won't last, but it is certainly different and, dare I say it, kind of fun.
Congratulartions, you've been nominated for the False Dichotomy Slashdot Comment of the Month Award. We'll contact you shortly with more information.
Ezekiel 23:20
It's a shell game.
"Like the look of the Metro Interface? Well it's right here in one of these shiny boxes! That's right, ooh shiny. Sick and tired of the Metro Interface? Well one of these boxes here has the NotMetro Interface! That's right, just what you asked for. No, no sir, no shell game here, just good fun. What's that? Oh, you wanted an actual shell? That's right here inside one of these boxes, inside the NotMetro Interface, inside the NotDOS prompt! Something for everyone! Step right up!"
as Windows XP still holds half of the market. Enterprises are still getting around to rolling out Windows 7. Those companies are not going to touch a brand new operating system to begin with, especially one that makes such a radical departure.
any OEM that does the lock down will not only lock them self's out of the web sever market but the desktop and laptop Enterprise market as well.
To get OEM hardware qualification (the Win 8 logo) the device MUsT support touch input. That means all new machines shipping with Win 8 will have touch screens. Yes, even the desktops.
Business customers, as a rule, run really old software. My software company still has customers with software that requires Windows XP, and won't run on anything later! Therefore, our company has to continue to support Windows XP if we want to continue to sell software to them.
Most business are starting to move to Windows 7 (bypassing Vista), but they won't use an OS that doesn't let them go straight to the "classic" desktop to run all their old software, which won't be updated for years to come. When Microsoft realizes the sheer numbers involved in lost sales because they wanted to be "hip," they'll see the light and shoehorn something in there to make the business customers happy.
Now admittedly I lack first-hand knowledge of this, but it was my understanding that OEMs don't generally include a monitor when purchasing a new desktop PC. Are you saying that is suddenly going to change? That OEMs will only sell new desktops bundled with a monitor?
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
I have 2 words for Windows 8. "New Coke." I'm sure on the laptop and desktop market it will be even less popular than Coca-Cola's forray into reformulating a new taste.
"Care about people's opinions and you will be their prisoner." ~~Tao Te Ching~~
If you hate the UI changes in Windows Vista, which Windows 7 kept, and you don't like Metro, then you are kind of screwed.
Not really, you can tweak 7 to make it look almost the same as XP.
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
DOING IT THE WINDOWS ME WAY!
Now, now. Let's be honest here. It's not like Windows 8 has a ~20% risk of booting into a blue screen of death like Windows Me.
Instead, there's a near 100% risk of booting into a light blue screen of productivity killing, +4 against workers.
Translation: La la la... I can't hear you.
Where else do you apply this little theory of yours? There's a word for you, "bigot".
You know, there are sites that don't permit anonymous posting. Why don't you think of heading over there?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Windows 8 is probably going to be amazing on tablets, but i don't see why Microsoft tries to force it on desktop users. In their stead, I would just keep the Windows 7 UI, and put that on top of the upgraded codebase. Or if they want to tie the platforms together so badly, make the OS detect the type of device it is installed on, and use the appropriate interface (Not-Metro for touch-based devices, regular for non-touch-based ones).
The problem with that is that the apps are designed for tablets too. There's so much wasted screen real estate to accommodate fat fingers instead of precise mice, and assumptions that the apps will run full screen. Running them in any sane way in a desktop UI might be difficult at best.
And what about functionality that's gone away, like support for multiple mouse buttons? It won't magically reappear.
What was the question???
There is always React OS :p
I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
I seem to recall Android apps having to have the ability to distinguish between tablets and phones, and offer up potentially different UIs for both, each optimized for the amount of screen space available. I don't see why Microsoft can't go the same way, even if it means developers having to work extra to create two different UIs.
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
Why would we ever waste police resources on this kind of person?
Because most of the civilized world has public health care, and it costs less to talk him out of it than it would to fix it after the fact.
I know people freak out about Windows 8 very easily but why not just dual boot to Windows 7 and 8? That's what I do now. At first I found myself only using Windows 8 rarely. Now I find myself using it all the time and using Windows 7 less and less.
I don't want a touch-based desktop, even if it's a direct console to Deep Blue (or whatever is the most powerful supercomputer these days). A desktop's monitor is ideally just at the edge of arm's reach for me, and fingerprint-free. I don't want anyone touching my screen, except maybe tapping with a pencil or pen to point out things. Desktops/laptops are meant to be used with a mouse and keyboard, in my opinion, not poking the screen. That's for tablets and phones.
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
I hate Microsoft and all closed environments like Apples, but I think the primary problem with allowing GPL apps specificly is the ambiguity as to who is the distributor that is responsible for providing source code upon request. Is it the app store, or the developer? I think, therefore, that there should be an additional provision inserted into a GPL license that would clarify that for the purposes of an app store distributed app, the author is responsible for providing source code, and any keys used to distribute the app are allowed to remain private.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
but i don't see why Microsoft tries to force it on desktop users.
Here's my theory: MS knows desktops users will hate it. Enterprises will skip it. Win 8 is not about advancing desktops or enterprises. Win 8 is about MS trying to force their way into the mobile/touch space. If MS had developed a separate OS for tablet/mobile, it would languish just like WP7 when it comes to developers. Instead MS will force all future Windows developers to be Metro developers. Developers will have no choice; problem solved in the minds of MS.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
touch input also includes trackpads... i wonder how well win8ui does on that... i suspect its subpar
and/or Mac and/or Linux migrations will be viable options.
In other words, 2013 will be the year of the Linux (or MacOS) desktop?
Well if the Corporate world decides that Win8 is just too much drain on their workers productivity, you may see another Corporate holdout like the bypassing of that turd, Vista. If EVERYBODY is sticking to 7, MS is gonna be forced to keep extending 7 support, JUST like they're doing for XP... Not a heck of a lot of ways around it for them... Since most corps have volume licenses for 7 and image their own systems, which I'm sure they will do even on new systems that ship with 8, JUST like they did during the time OEMs were shipping Vista.. I lost track of the number of systems we recieved from Dell with Vista on them that we immediately reimaged to XP at my last job..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
It's rabid hate because it almost makes me feel like i'm using an OS made by microsoft partnered with fisher price and the end result is moving around colored blocks to get at what you need therby making you feel like a three year old.
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
Metro is so unpopular with desktop users that the tablets are going to get a bad name just due to bad name recognition. So it's a risky strategy at best.
Lovely.. Microsoft shooting itself in the foot.. Couldn't happen to a more appropriate company... Hope it blows their whole flippin foot off..
Signed Linux fanboi...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
It's like they're taking a .50 caliber rifle, loading it with explosive ammunition, and using a calibrated scope to shoot themselves in the most critical part of their foot.
In full-auto.
What's the deal? Don't they realize alienating customers this way is a bad idea? Even APPLE, king of "our way or the highway", gives users choices when they make changes like scrolling-direction.
I can also see the store ending up littered with hundreds of cloned and rebranded GPL apps.
win 8 is for 3 billion chinese farmers, the traditional user base can fuck off. The total adressable market is many times larger than you shits with your desktop machines.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
Trackpads usually move the mouse pointer on screen, so they can be considered mice. Unless you divide them up into active zones with no visual feedback on zone limits and functions, which means you just poke it in places, and hope you hit the button/zone you're trying to hit. All this while trying to scale and map the screen onto the touchpad: for many people, this might be a healthy mental exercise, but for those with not such a good sense of spatial reasoning, it'll be a reason to hunt down Ballmer and bludgeon him over the head with their laptops.
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
I don't see how this is a problem.
It should be up to the author(s) of the program. If they choose GPL they did so because they rather want the software to remain free, even if that meant that some distribution channels would be a no-no.
This is only a problem for those who choose GPL because it was popular, rather than choosing it because they truly wanted that.
These people should have chosen a different license.
Yes it was. Microsoft's own blogs liked to call it that, including on all the Windows Phone 7 stuff (which has been for sale for quite a while now).
It was totally Metro right up until Metro became a four letter word to PC buyers.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Windows 2012 doesn't boot to 'Metro' how hard can it be to change 8?
If it becomes part of the chain-of-trust in the secure boot, very hard.
So now it will languish because of a seriously bad rep, even before it's released, and developers will keep developing for desktop architectures (for what it'll be worth), because they expect low tablet/phone market penetration. This means they won't take the time and effort to make their apps cross-compatible (has anyone developed a cross-platform Metro app already? Is it a lot of work to make the jump between the two architectures?), there will still be few tablet-compatible apps, and the problem still won't be solved, unless Microsoft intervenes actively by developing native tablet or cross-platform apps, that are equal in capabilities between the two platforms (so no crippled tablet versions).
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
Of course, the O-Bots are gonna crank both AC and me down into -5 land, as that's how they roll...
Hey dingbat, the only mention of politics in this entire thread comes from you and the AC above you, of course you should be modded down. This is as offtopic as it gets.
Some of us are still on Windows XP SP3 as our primary image. We're only changing to Windows 7 SP1 in the next equipment lease swap (in about a year) because XP is reaching its EOL. Vista was never touched.
Corporate IT hates radical change because it is hard/expensive to support. End users get confused and need re-trained to use their computers (lost productivity since they're having issues figuring things out/spending time on the phone with the help desk); help desk gets raped (Leading to overtime); software engineering gets screwed trying to fix all the sudden bugs that appear from compatibility problems (which also kills end user productivity if the broken applications prevent them from working; and it rapes help desk again since they're the liaison between the software group and end users).
Any competent CIO isn't going to run a shop on bleeding edge software. The only Windows 7 systems we have in use at our company are either for executives (because they insist on getting what they want and they have their own personal IT support tech on hand anyways to support it), or members of IT for use in testing software and other items for the upcoming XP EOL (my main workstation is XP SP3, but I have a Dell Latitude running a mirrored environment on Windows 7 to check for issues between the two.)
To be honest, I see most corporate environments holding onto Windows 7 until its EOL (2020) since many are just now either getting around to going to Windows 7 or have just recently done so. Microsoft would like for corporate to upgrade every release of windows; but no CIO that values his job is going to bite on that.
"I feel like a police negotiator desperately trying to talk a man out of shooting his foot off."
"Press muzzle firmly against ankle joint and pull that trigger as many times as you can!"
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Why help an evil corporate citizen improve its product line?
If MSFT fields a version which kicks users in the yarbles with every mouse click, I support their right to do so!
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Perptual interface changes burden users who have sunk time and effort learning to use previous versions to GET WORK DONE.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I think the real story is a bit different. Metro was another casualty of MS in fighting. Metro started came from the Phone team. The Windows team never likes to share.
"Windows 7, which'll be even faster on the new, more powerful hardware."
8 definitely seems to be performing faster on my hardware.
I'm also confused as to how people think that Metro is the entirety of Windows 8. It's just the start screen replacement. The UI has been revamped, but it's much better than 7/Vista IMO.
I know it's flamebait, but damn funny!
Really? Pure semantics there.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
Having messed around with the preview copy of the new Windows Server 2012, I was surprised to see that it boots straight into the 'desktop app' instead of going to the not-called-Metro Metro interface. Now surely there is no issue with Microsoft doing this for their servers, so why is it an issue for their client OS? After all, both are based off of the same system.
I'm thinking, as a consumer at least, that Windows 8 is not an operating system I want to use. Besides the pain in the ass Metro interface, the main issue is not being able to play DVD videos natively without buying extra software, something I don't need to do with 7, MacOS or even a Linux distro. Being at university without a TV and DVD player means I use my PC to play films, so that's a big killer for me.
Pointer style input devices can be divided into two main categories, e.g., absolute and relative. A touch screen uses absolute coordinates whereas trackpads and mice use relative movements so I would suspect trackpads will have many of the same issues mice do.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
If IT can't implement a group policy to bypass the user interface formerly known as Metro, the CIO can implement a business policy to bypass installation of Windows 8.
Many businesses went this route with Vista, and are happy they did.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Maybe "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\Shell" can be changed to explorer.exe.. I don't know as I haven't tried it yet.
Hey beavis, most of us have tried it, dumbass.. We think it sucks.
1. it's just butt ugly
2. starting a program from a menu shouldn't be a modal context switch.
That's Stadock's "Windows 8 de-suck" tool. I haven't tried it yet because I haven't had a chance to try 8 but it sounds like it works well.
The thing that annoys me is if the OS just sucked period, ok no problem. It sucks, give it a miss, life goes on. However everything I've read says technically it is exceedingly good. Cakewalk tried out Sonar X1 on it and found an across the board speedup. This wasn't a recompile or mod for Windows 8, just regular X1d that we all use. Windows 8 just has better multi-threading, and better latency, which equals better performance for high end audio apps.
So it is a very good OS from the low level, crippled by a shitty UI. Not really a problem for me, I'll just replace the UI with Classic Shell or Start 8 or whatever (I do Windows support professionally so it is my job to learn it). However users will hate it, refuse to use it, and then decide 7 is the One True OS(tm) and we'll be fighting to get them to upgrade to 9 or 10 or which ever one next doesn't suck.
The programmers at MS must be all kinds of sour right now that their excellent dev efforts were screwed over by this shitty UI.
1. the last thing we need is more search boxes in our GUIs. A search box in a menu system proves that the menu layout has already failed because the designer already knows the user will have trouble finding what he's looking for. The ribbon is a horrid interface. Poking and prodding through icons of various sizes and text fonts is a hell of a lot more annoying than simple lists of options, especially if the option isn't immediately visible due to it failing some pathetic popularity heuristic. Microsoft attempted this first with the old menu system and it was so goddamn annoying, it was usually one of the first options I switched off, not just for me, but for any users I had to support.
2. It's an aggravating modal context switch that's completely illusory and unnecessary, but it does drive the user to be face to face with metro on a regular basis, which is what microsoft really wants out of this. Personally, I don't get the defense of such stupid things, when we already have something that works a lot better: start menus/quicklaunch.
3. There's a difference between checking out a new piece of software, and the resultant discoveries (ie this is cool, or this sucks) the process reveals. What new technologies are you referring to? That shitty overwrought start menu? The hobbled/ribbon'd explorer? The newbified taskman that now requires even more clicks to get at useful info? I will grant you some of the new under the hood improvements are nice, but the gui severely mars that for me.
That is a quite interesting comment, since this was a very common reaction to Windows XP when launched, especially here on Slashdot and similar sites. It was heavily criticized as a "Fisher Price UI", and a lot of people wanted the old Win2K UI.
You COULD at least permanently switch back to the W2K UI. And most people I know did, to avoid the "Fisher Price UI". You cannot permanently switch back Windows 8 to the Windows 7 UI.
I wonder if the same people at MS who are insisting on Metro on the desktop are the same people who insisted on the desktop interface on WinCE phones. Maybe MS thinks touch monitors will take over on the desktop or tablets will largely outsell desktops.
Then they should be sacked as soon as possible. Touchscreen will not take over the desktop anytime soon, because the human body simply is not built to sit and point at things for hours. A keyboard/mouse is much MUCH more comfortable than having to raise your arm to click on stuff. And that's not even taking into account that most people have their (TFT) screen too far away on their desk to even REACH it with their hand.
1) You have 100 employees who use MS Office. .docx docs and xlsx spreadsheets they are starting to receive? Yes.
Did they want a new interface? No.
Did they need one? No.
Do they have learn one to use the flood of
Do you have to spend money retraining them again? Yes.
Did a whole generation of macros become useless? Mostly
2) You have 50,000 employees (say, Seimens) using XP who must now upgrade to Windows 8.
Did they want a new interface? No.
Did they need one? No.
Do you have to spend money retraining them again? Yes.
Did a whole generation of software build around Windows XP become useless? Pretty much.
3) You have 1000 customers using your VB6 application. You employ 3 programmers
Did they want to learn new code? No.
Despite the promises, does their VB6 app work on 64-bit Windows 7? Yes, it just crashes every few minutes now.
Do they have to learn new code and then recode and then retest to keep their customers? Yes.
Microsoft's Motto? Who cares about how much you have to spend upgrading or training or re-developing, asshole? You'll eat our shit with a smile.
Or not, actually. Linux gets more usable each year, and android pad OSs aren't standing still either.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Because you don't see what the PHBs are thinking friend, which is 1.-WinPhone won't sell, 2.-WinPhone is doubleplusgood UI so it MUST be the fact that the users aren't used to our new super paradigm so, 3.-Force everyone to use WinPhone Ui so they will "learn" to love doubleplusgood UI paradigm.
In the end its a Hail Mary pass, they know X86 is gonna stay flat, no reason for people to replace that quad desktop or dual laptop until it dies so no constant rollover like with cellphones, so they make one last throw and hope to gain some yards before the clock runs out. Will it work, I doubt it because the truth MSFT doesn't want to accept is that Windows IS X86 and without X86 programs nobody cares about Windows, so instead of accepting their market is mature and spinning off mobile to sink or swim we get a classic MSFT "we'll force you to take our crap" failwhale.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
It's as if they're trying to rig the search results and hide all the hate! What next, calling it the & interface, just so that searching for it will be a pain? :P
I agree it has nothing to with what is loaded, but if you have no hardware drivers or cant boot XP at all, then its not what they get.
That day is coming ( if its not here already for many models )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Instead MS will force all future Windows developers to be Metro developers. Developers will have no choice; problem solved in the minds of MS.
But it doesn't work that way.
Suppose you're a Windows developer, even a new one - as in just writing your first app. You can:
1. Write it for Metro, such that it'll run only on Win8 PCs and tablets.
2. Write it for the desktop, and it'll run on any Windows PC, except for ARM Win8 tablets.
Even if Surface is a roaring success (hmmm), the numbers are still like an order of magnitude different. Some people would certainly write for Metro just to get a slice of the new market before competition is in, in hopes that it'll be big enough later on. But I don't see how the majority would do that.
Heck, have you seen the uproar that happened when it was announced that VS 2012 Express will only run on Win8 and only let you develop Metro apps? That was taken back pretty damn fast.
Why would we ever waste police resources on this kind of person?
Because most of the civilized world has public health care, and it costs less to talk him out of it than it would to fix it after the fact.
In in the US, I wouldn't give good odds on private insurance paying out on the medical bills for a deliberately-inflicted wound. So the hospital, EMT services, et al. have to absorb the expense (unless you can squeeze it out of someone who already has proven to be less than competent), thus it becomes "public health care" (a/k/a "socialized medicine") - paid for courtesy of our taxes.
It's cheaper to pay the taxes for socialized police services and nip the problem in the bud.
Even M$ shows everyone that yes you cant boot to a legacy desktop but using KB shortcuts you can remove the new desk for the legacy one.
Link?
Is there any real reason that you can't just use some type of virtualization solution? Seems more practical than having extra machines.
Over the years, I've noticed that manufacturers release WindowsXP drivers that are totally broken. Even when XP was officially still supported, that didn't mean everything would work.
Needless to say, the problem is getting worse. Every time I update my ATI/AMD graphics drivers, I get a BSOD or some other massive problem. The old drivers work just fine with XP, and the new drivers work fine with Win7. Just because XP is still widely used doesn't mean manufacturers will give a damn about it.
But, hey, it could be worse. I could still be using my Mac.
Already waiting for Win9, after MS fails to get the tablet/portable/phone market they threw desktop users under the bus for and comes crawling back to us like they did with Vista/Win7.
Really, there's only one thing I want. Never force me into full screen mode. IS THAT SO F@$#ING HARD?
Yeah, yeah, I know, technically it's not, Ballmer-wise it is.
We'll talk later. Or we won't.
...if you delete twinui.dll. That gets you straight into the desktop (and kills off Metro), but it's not terribly useful as you don't get any taskbar buttons!
Well he said Dev Tools. If that includes debuggers, then they tend to use privileged instructions, for setting watch/breakpoints or messing with MMU settings and that performance can be severely impacted by virtualization. although that can be somewhat reduced depending on the support in the processor. Could be pricey having to give to your developers workstations with moderately recent Xenon CPUs.
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
I'm surprised AOL hasn't sued MS for this http://tekblurb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/wpid-Photo-2012-05-31-846-PM.jpg
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
Forcing? Not hardly, its just like Vista - we don't HAVE to buy it. Just keep 7.
As I see it, software OS'es aren't a normal product. With the anomaly that XP was where it was at for some 8 years, sure Win7 is cute, it seems like a natural option, but the Windows 8 hype is some of the most desperately aggressive I have ever seen, way more than Windows 7. It looks as if it were an attempt to blind rational decision making by screaming "stop thinking and open your wallet and buy this now!"
Except it's a bit like D&D, if Win8 is awesome, why would we buy Win7? The computer world is different from the emerging days of Win95 Win 98 Win 2000 WinXP, when vital new tech was being thrashed out. Comp processing power came of age, so we don't need that hardware upgrade as importantly as we used to. Not counting some potential wear on the HD, I have a 1.75 Terabyte Quad Core system from 2006 that will do anything I ever (currently) need. So the mood is different, these frenetic changes feel wrong. The UI-Formerly-As-Metro really bothers me. I'm not a tablet/phone guy.
This feels like the marketing of the Zune, which shared a lot of "let's get our favorite 12 analysts to pummel the blogosphere with it!" So I am trying to hold on to the "Post Win8 World" and by then we'll have the perspective, but not today.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine