Slashdot Mirror
Cherry MX Mechanical Keyboard Switches Compared
crookedvulture writes "Keyboards with mechanical key switches are enjoying a renaissance of sorts. They're prized by gamers, coders, and writers alike, and Cherry's MX switches are the most popular on newer models. There are MX blue, brown, black, and red switches, each with a different tactile feel and audible note. This comparison of four otherwise identical Rosewill keyboards details how each switch type feels and sounds, complete with audio recordings of the various colors in action. Recommended reading for anyone considering a mechanical keyboard or one of the Rosewills, which cost about $100. Looks like the removable USB cord on these particular models is prone to breakage."
Sounds like an ad, but seriously I found the best advice there.
from the company that holds the original design patent from IBM for the Model M, and inhereted the process from Lexmark. The keyboard is still built and serviced in Lexington, Kentucky. They ship internationally. have a nice rennaissance.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/
Good people go to bed earlier.
Hands down the best set of information have ever seen about mechanical keyboards was this forum post on the topic it has everything you want to know about the subject.
They all have too much travel distance and too high actuation force. I like quiet, springy, low-force, low-profile laptop-style keys. Oh, and the concave-trapezoid shape - none of that crappy Apple-esque flat/square key crap.
Does anyone make a Bluetooth keyboard with mechanical switches, or is it all just USB or PS/2? (And why would anyone want to use PS/2 in a new design, anyway?)
People like to swear by mechanical keyboards. However, mechanical keyboards make me start swearing. I find it hard to concentrate when suffering that cacophanous sound constantly and it ruins any semblance of a tranquil work environment for me.
To each their own, I guess
You need one of these: PS/2 to USB Adaptor
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
If you're going to spend $110 on a keyboard... then why not wait a little longer and spend $150 on the best one that best matches your requirements?
And one that doesn't have a cranky USB port either.
Personally I'm not a fan of the numeric keypad, I never use it myself and it gets in the way most of the time. However I do like having a full-size cursor key setup. I hate media keys. Rarely use function keys. What is the best mechanical keyboard for these requirements (UK layout, screw that tiny return key on US keyboards)?
I have no idea what the hell any of this is about. Mechanical keyboards?
So you have to start them up like a chainsaw or something?
Are they like the old C-64/VT100 keyboards. Cause you needed kung-fu death fingers to type on those.
Sig. Sig. Sputnik
I have a DAS Keyboard with brown Cherry switches. They are 45g to activate, and not clicky. The keyboard is not silent, but it is certainly not noisy, either. This is the best feeling keyboard I own, and maybe the best feeling one I have ever owned. I have pounded the crap out of it for over a year and it still works, as one would expect. Every time I shop for a laptop, I just cringe when I feel the keys and I think about spending all day using it.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
Maltron: http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=21
The Truly Ergonomic Keyboard is a smaller ergonomic keyboard that currently only comes with Cherry MX Brown switches.
There are other, larger, keybards like the Maltron or Kinesis that are ergonomic with mechanical switches, but they tend to be enormous, while the "Truly Ergonomic" is similar in size to the "Happy Hacker" keyboard.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
Because they have a clean key press, dome keyboards are too squishy. If you can make a clean break feeling without the noise do it.
I'm a considerate coworker, and so when I brought my Loner to work I passed out icepicks, iodine solution and cotton balls to everyone within earshot.
Another advantage of my decades old model M is the keys don't stick. I have a POS dell mushboard at work and my biggest annoyance is you need to hit the keys, especially the larger keys, precisely up and down or they stick half way or slip-stick-slip-stick before they hit. So unconsciously the poor quality makes repetitive stress injuries more likely.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Using a mini-B connector was a poor choice. The Mini-B was not designed for many plug-unplug cycles, Micro-B is designed for many more cycles, in addition, the portion that wears is the plug-end, not the soldered down jack.
These come in variants with the various Cherry keys, and also without the keypad, which is very good if (1) you don't use a keypad and (2) you're right handed and don't want the mouse too far away. Here - anyone tried them? I haven't. Tempted though.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
http://www.trulyergonomic.com/
The layout is a bit funky, but if you can get used to it then it's a decent keyboard. I find it great for typing documents, not so good for coding.
for it to get back in fashion. Yay!
It might be more accurate to say keyboards with mechanical switches.
It's true that keyboards with dome switches are mechanical in the sense of being based on moving parts, but they are essentially a mechanical key put on top of a membrane switches, similar to how the buttons you find on microwaves operate. Switches where the switch action is based on moving rigid parts, rather than a flexing membrane, are usually the ones called "mechanical switches".
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
You can get foam "landing pads" which eliminate the bottoming-out clackiness of all the cherry-type keyboards. That makes all but the blue switches almost entirely silent.
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads
I wish I could get a buckling spring design without the numpad. (or with the numpad on the left) Who has room for that? Looks like you can get a keyboard with those CherryMX switches without the numpad (for substantial cost) but I've never actually tried one of those before. I wish I could give it a shot first.
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
The mechanical keyswitches are better to type on.
Anecdotal : my dear grey-haired mother used to be a legal secretary, so she would type most of the day for all of her professional career. When I saw that she was getting arthritis in her finger joints, as any good son would, I replaced the shitty generic standard-issue membrane keyboard that came with her office computer with a decent Cherry. Her arthritis improved significantly within weeks. (Both keyboards were non-ergonomic standard layout). When she retired, she took the keyboard with her and continues to use it even today.
The main problem with a membrane keyboard is a lack of positive feedback. You have to wait until a character appears on screen and your brain has processed this event to know whether you have successfully hit the key. For a fast typist, this is way to slow, so instead, they start to mash the keys harder than necessary in order to be sure of positive contact. Hence the finger joint arthritis.
With a mechanical keyswitch, there are two forms of positive feedback that you have successfully hit the key. First, there is the characteristic "click" sound. Secondly, there is the moment in the keystroke when the key switch "gives". This means that your finger can sense precisely how much effort is required to achieve positive contact, which means you only expend as much effort as necessary. In my humble opinion, ergonomic keyboards are a really stupid response to most typing RSI issues, and it's probably a better idea to get a keyboard with proper keyswitches - all the ergonomic boards I've touched still have the same shitty membrane switches.
The thing that got to me the most was her IT departments disgruntled response about having to install a new keyboard - "Why do you need a special keyboard?" (she shut them up by informing them her son was both a doctor and a computer professional). A professional typist (whether you're typing code, or legal papers) should use a professional keyboard. IBM understood this when they developed the Model M. It's a shame that we've lost that in the quest for cost savings..
thnkpad
Apparently not.
Our friends at Unicomp also have a Mac version of their keyboard - the Spacesaver M. Freakin' awesome.... feels like '92 all over again.
This post was brought to you by the Unicomp Spacesaver M.
Few years old, but still contains lots of interesting stuff
http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide
This isn't true of Maltrons -- I have a friend who's a huge fan, owning 3 generations of the product. According to Wikipedia, they use Cherry MX switches.
I can't believe no one mentioned WASD keyboards:
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com
You can fully customize the keyboard, from what is printed on each key (and what font is used) and what color the key is, to what type of switches they use.
They don't cost much more than other mechanical boards.
I highly recommend them!
Why do you assume we do it to annoy/impress others? Even if you're completely alone, a Model M is the best keyboard available.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I wubs me mechanical keyboards
It's a lurching zombie, damn it. Shambling is for scarecrows.
Best bet would be the filco majestouch tenkeyless - one of the rare UK Patten mechanical keyboards - as already suggested ;)
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_search.asp?SG=10037
Available with cherry browns, blues or blacks depending on what tactile response you want. Ps2 native with usb adapter if needed.
I have the cherry brown filco at home (I type and game on it) and it's the best keyboard I've ever owned - and that includes my old IBM death spring model m. The filco leather wrist wrest is also worth investing in.
Blues are best for typing (I have a cheaper cherry blue g80-3000 at the office), blacks are better for gaming, but I've found browns to be a good compromise for general purpose use - and since they're non clicky, I'm less likely to be murdered by the missus.
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
http://youtu.be/w7A7ZmVar8w
The above is the Nissan Leaf commercial for those who need the context
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I currently use the Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboards and could never go back to non-ergo, but unfortunately have never seen any ergonomic mechanical ones.
The only Microsoft product I like... though that's because Logitech quit making that split ergo style. I have one of the MS ergo keyboards that's several years old, and just bought another one recently. Seems like the new one is even mushier. I'd sure like to see one with mechanical switches. I don't care for the layouts of the ones linked by the other replies to this parent.
That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
I looked at several keyboards using Cherry switches and after price comparisons, I could buy a full blown Cherry Keyboard similar to the IBM Model M for the same cost as the damn Rosewill crap on Newegg. You have to go to CDW.com for them but better build quality and such is the advantage and that's where my next keyboard is coming from.
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
figured id chime in again and mention that yes, the warranty is absolutely valid. I had a 101 classic shipped with keys that were DOA (ctrl, alt, and numlock) and the turnaround from Lexington to Los Angeles was 3 days. The packaging was very well done, and the entire keyboard had been replaced for free along with an apology from an actual carbon lifeform over the phone.
my spacesaver 104 with the windows keys feels a bit tighter than the 101 for keyclicks, but its not a bad thing. after 2 years of heavy use and the occasional spill, the spacebar died on the spacesaver. Out of warranty, I shipped the keyboard back in its original box and for $30 it was fixed.
Unlike the latest plastic-key abortion to fall off a chinese freighter, you can easily repair the spacesaver and the 101 yourself, as there are plenty of worthwhile tutorials online. Im just a lazy nerd.
The reason i keep buying Unicomp is the lettering has got to be the quality and the warranty. Compared to laptop keyboards or anything else (most desktop keyboards are rapidly devolving into detached laptop keyboards out of manufacturing cost alone) I feel like i can work on a unicomp confidently and comfortably for hours on end. Coworkers detest the sound until they realize its an american keyboard with two decades of history, and the sound serves as a reminder to anyone dragging me into a conference call to keep it short.
Good people go to bed earlier.
A Model F keyboard with a custom USB converter.
Have gnu, will travel.
Mechanical keyboard guide. Scroll down to ergonomic keyboard section
Isn't any keyboard with moving parts, i.e., anything that's not touch sensitive a "mechanical keyboard"?
Strictly speaking, they're mechanically switched keyboards, as opposed to the rubber-dome-with-electrical-contacts type most cheap (and not-so-cheap) keyboards are; i.e. 'mechanical' keyboards have a moving parts lever and/or spring based mechanism to register a keypress rather than just a bubbled rubber mat.
It's just a handy way to tell the two types apart - the typing style on a mechanical keyboard is much easier on the fingers, especially if you're a touch typist as you don't need to hammer the key all the way to the bottom to get it to register - a mechanical keyboard with tactile feedback like the cherry blue or brown switches means you can touch type without the 'clack' of the key hitting the bottom at all, so actually ends up quieter overall as well as easier on the fingers because you're never bringing the fingertip to a juddering stop when the key hits the keyboard tray, you're cushioned on the spring travel instead. Takes a while to get used to though, especially if you've been used to typing on a rubber mat keyboard for a long time - you have to unlearn hammering the keyboard as hard as possible.
An alternative to a big expensive cherry switch or buckling spring keyboard (or very expensive topre keyboard) is a laptop-style scissor-switch mechanical keyboard - many people like the imac wireless keyboard without knowing that it's got mechanical key switches underneath, just ones with a short travel; you do bottom out, but because the activation force is light and and travel short, it's still easier on the hands than pounding on a rubber dome keyboard.
For me, as you might have guessed, it's a lot more about avoiding pain at the end of the day of keyboarding than being a super-fast typist, though you can end up improving your wpm too as a side effect.
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
In my humble opinion, ergonomic keyboards are a really stupid response to most typing RSI issues, and it's probably a better idea to get a keyboard with proper keyswitches - all the ergonomic boards I've touched still have the same shitty membrane switches.
90% of the 'ergonomic' keyboards are only ergonomic because their marketing department decided to call it that. There's no actual testing, no actual thought on what would help the typist, they just copied what everyone else calls ergonomic.
If you are going to get an ergonomic keyboard, look for the ones where they actually thought about it - they'll cost more, but they'll actually be good as well. Personally, I use a Kinesis, and it's very good. They also all have mechanical switches - some models even offer a choice of which switch you want.
On the other hand, you'll never find them in a store...
'Sensible' is a curse word.
Because cherry G80's look like they're a reject from the 1970s, and take up the desk space to match?
I have a G80-3000 UK cherry blue at the office, and it beats the hell out of a rubber membrane - but the thing's near twice the size of a filco majestouch (my choice at home), and that's not even comparing to say the tenkeyless filco's which are tiny in comparison.
Plus I couldn't find a G80 with cherry browns and a UK layout.
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
particularly the ones with Cherry switches (browns and blues). I was surprised how much I liked the Cherry blues.
In the end I decided to start with something cheap and bought a used Dell AT101, which uses Alps black mechanical switches, and I'm quite pleased. It has just the right amount of click and clack, and the actuation point feels much more definite than the Cherry Browns.
The only thing I would change about the keys on the Dell is the amount of wobble they have (its mediocre in this respect). The main thing I would change about the keyboard as a whole is to make it a compact or 'tenkeyless' layout instead of the bog standard one. The keyboard also doesn't look funny like a lot of the Asian branded mech keyboards (Filco, et al); even though I want compactness, having a bit of a border around the whole thing makes it nicer to look at. The Dell extends backward about 3 in. which I like a lot.
If I were to get a unit with Cherry keys, I would probably go with a Cherry branded one. Even though they are less solid than some of the Asian brands, I got the impression the keys are mounted and housed such that they at least sound better than the other brands with the "keys on a bare hunk of metal" construction. Otherwise, I'd choose a keyboard like this: http://trulyergonomic.com/
I was already well aware what IBM spring keyboards were like, having used them a lot back in the 90s - I like them but not for long periods of time due to the key resistance and the noise level.
The primary keyboard like that is the Happy Hacking Keyboard, in a regular model that now also includes arrow keys and a Topre model without arrow keys with the higher cost that people are discussing in this article. If there is any other manufacturer I would also love to know since I would like something like the HHK Pro/Topre but with arrow keys and hopefully less cost than $250.
I have an older HHK with PS2 and no arrow keys as well as a HHK USB with arrow keys currently. I use the older PS2 model more since it types better due to being broken in better. The USB (HHK Lite2?) model doesn't seem to type as well though I am still fairly happy with it. In general: I love the key layout especially location of escape, ctrl, ~, and backspace (which i dip-switch remap to from its original delete purpose.) The HHK Lite2 at about $75 does make you wonder if you should just spend more to get a better key switch technology. Though the current HHK Pro price is a bit steep for me at least.
"but money is the God of Algiers & Mahomet their prophet." - Rich. O'Bryen June 8th 1786
Actually, USB HID devices (keyboards, mice, game controllers, etc) use the USB "INTERRUPT" transport mode. This mode allows the USB device to specify a scheduled update rate at which it will send button/etc updates without having to wait for a driver or application to request updates from it. This isn't *exactly* interrupt timing straight from the key/button press, but it can be close. The USB driver for the HID devices/keyboard may be choosing to poll instead of utilize the USB data arrival interrupt, but that is likely to be OS specific.
You are correct that *other* USB devices are polling based (ones using the BULK and ISO transports) and must wait for a driver to request data from them before transmitting.
Furthermore, there is not an inherent 4 or 6 "key at a time" limit in the USB HID descriptor reports.
1) The modifier keys are sent as a bitfield separate than the keyboard keys, so they wouldn't count toward the max number of keys pressed at a time. :
USB HID 1.1 spec :
"Since only one array element can be reported in each array field, modifier keys
should be reported as bitmap data (a group of 1-bit variable fields)."
2) While a given keyboard may choose to limit its HID report to only transmit an array of a few keys at a time, it is possible to transmit a much larger number of keys at a time (report sizes greater than 64 bytes can be spread over multiple USB transactions if desired).
HID Usage Tables 1.1 spec :
"N selections of a set. More than one selection (button) can be valid at a time. Multiple selections
can be returned to the system at one time in a multi-byte array. The “n selections of a set” form is
defined by a Main item with the Array flag set and the Report Count set to n, where n is the
number of selections that can be reported in a single report. An example is a keyboard."
HID 1.1 spec again :
Rather than returning a single bit for each button in the group, an array returns an index in each field that corresponds to the pressed button (like keyboard scan codes). An out-of range value in and array field is considered no controls asserted. Buttons or keys in an array that are simultaneously pressed need to be reported in multiple fields. Therefore, the number of fields in an array input item (Report Count) dictates the maximum number of simultaneous controls that can be reported. A keyboard could report up to three simultaneous keys using an array with three 8-bit fields (Report Size = 8, Report Count = 3). Logical Minimum specifies the lowest index value returned by the array and Logical Maximum specifies the largest. The number of elements in the
array can be deduced by examining the difference between Logical Minimum and Logical Maximum
(number of elements = Logical Maximum - Logical Minimum + 1).
I prefer PS/2 keyloggers; the stolen data has a much warmer, analog feel.
I've been ever eager to get back into mechanical keyboards, but I realize I'm already getting to the point where I'm suffering slight wrist issues, and I'm worried the increased tension and key stroke depth from mechanical keyboards would only exacerbate the problem. Am I correct in this assumption?
Anyone have experience with this company? MaxKeyboard I've been looking for a new mechanical keyboard on-and-off for a while (so this post comes at a great time for me), and I think I've settled on the Cherry MX brown switch (which I was satisfied to see was so well reviewed in TFA). I'm looking for a bit more than just a plain keyboard, though, and I currently have my eyes on the Nighthawk X8. It's pricey and seems to be a bit difficult to find, though (out of stock most places I've looked), and I'm not familiar with the manufacturer, but it seems to be a pretty solid product. Anyone have personal experience with either this keyboard or the company itself?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The Kinesis contoured keyboards are actually 1 1/2" less wide than a "full size" conventional keyboard.
I often place stuff that I am working on the middle of my Kinesis. It could be a notebook, a phone, etc. There are other users who place touchpads there and use that over a mouse. The space does not go to waste.
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
They get a plus from me for splitting the numpad + key, but a minus for keeping 4 meta keys to the right of the spacebar and another for not putting the lights into the respective lock keys.
If they would only have some real media keys, then I'd get one.
Patents are not what is keeping this company in business. They make a reliable, well made and functional product at a reasonable cost. Any manufacturer can make similar designs but they choose not to regardless of the effective quality of the design because it isn't theirs. Apple keyboards are nice too but those who learned to type the original IBM design will want one of these. I have one at work for code alone. Crappy keyboards are a distraction.
bob@Osprey:~>
Unfortunately, the Endura Pro pointing stick is more of a joystick... it might be a Trackpoint I or some clone... I had one for a long time, and it was useful for throwing the pointer at windows (reasonable under focus follows mouse), but I still had to keep a trackball around for fine operation (boo). Also, the buttons are cheap membrame switches, and my left button wore out after maybe 18 months. That wasn't too bad (I eventually had to remove the button plate and tap the membrane by hand) until it wore out and the left button was stuck on... ended up having to cut the trace at that point and not have pointer control... (and I emailed them, alas, you can't replace that part due to the way it's manufactured).
If only they would build a model with a Trackpoint IV. Come on Unicomp, license it already... until then, boo, living without a trackpoint it shall be. Life could be worse ;)
HAL 7000, fewer features than the HAL 9000, but just as homicidal!
2000, it was hot!