Exceptionally Preserved 2,600-Year-Old Brain Found

TrueSatan writes with this quote from Discovery News: "A human skull dated to about 2,684 years ago with an 'exceptionally preserved' human brain still inside of it was recently discovered in a waterlogged U.K. pit, according to a new Journal of Archaeological Science study. The brain is the oldest known intact human brain from Europe and Asia, according to the authors, who also believe it's one of the best-preserved ancient brains in the world (PDF). 'The early Iron Age skull belonged to a man, probably in his thirties,' according to lead author Sonia O'Connor. 'Cause of death is rarely possible to determine in archaeological remains, but in this case, damage to the neck vertebrae is consistent with a hanging.'"

Comments

Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The brain is the oldest known intact human brain from Europe and Asia" – So I take it the brain still works?

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe after they transplant the brain in a brainless body, we'll find out why he was hanged in his time.

Re:Intact human brain?

[jeffmeden]

Maybe after they transplant the brain in a brainless body, we'll find out why he was hanged in his time.

Convicted of a crime he didn't commit, of course...

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

I could make a joke about presidential candidates here, but they already have fossilized brains.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Intact and working are disjunct. After a shot to your heart your brain is still intact, but will soon cease working. On the other hand it can still be working after a severe trauma.

Re:Intact human brain?

[paiute]

Maybe after they transplant the brain in a brainless body, we'll find out why he was hanged in his time.

Starring Christopher Lee and Vincent Price.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't, We don't need another politician.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quick, someone send it to the Houses of Parliament! An intact brain there will revolutionise our system of government!

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe after they transplant the brain in a brainless body, we'll find out why he was hanged in his time.

Starring Christopher Lee and Vincent Price.

Or Gene Wilder and Peter Boyle. The criminal could have been the infamous Abby Normal.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

After a shot to your heart your brain is still intact, but will soon cease working.

"Will soon cease working" != "Doesn't work".

Guess why it will stop working? Because it will cease being intact (due to missing oxygen).

Re:Intact human brain?

[Opportunist]

whatcouldpossiblygowrong...

I smell a movie script for a very bad B-Movie. Working title "They saved prehistoric Hitler's brain"

IN 3D!

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Intact" is from the Latin word "intactus, intacta," which literally means "untouched" and figuratively means "physically whole." A deoxygenated brain might be physically whole on the macro level, and it would be perfectly fair to describe that as "intact," in much the same way that a house with all the furniture and fittings removed might still be called "intact," but not be habitable.

Re:Intact human brain?

[kelemvor4]

Maybe after they transplant the brain in a brainless body, we'll find out why he was hanged in his time.

You know, I'll never forget my old dad. When these things would happen to him... the things he'd say to me.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

"Now, that brain that you gave me, was it Hans Delbruch's?"

"Who's Brain Was it?"

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Commander Shepard has been recovered. The Lazarus Project will proceed as planned.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

So it is one more intact brain than we have in Congress.

*bah dum dum!* Thank you!

Re:Intact human brain?

[readin]

Something that occasionally bothers me is the question of how much a brain works after it is dead. We don't really understand consciousness so we don't know how much of the brain is responsible for it. In fact the only way we know (suspect?) our fellow humans are conscious is they tell us - ok I'm wondering in to Turing test territory which isn't where I want to go.

Suppose we were to hit this old intact brain with a jolt of electricity - would it feel it? Would it be conscious at some level for a brief moment but completely unable to inform us? Would it suffer a brief horrible dream? It makes me feel like I want to have my brain completely obliterated somehow when I die so I can be sure there is nothing left that is capable of suffering.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

And "idiot" comes from the greek word "idiotes" which means "private citizen". So I'm sure you're not offended if I call you an idiot.

Re:Intact human brain?

[wonkey_monkey]

If that doesn't scream mid-season replacement, I don't know what does!

Re:Intact human brain?

[ackthpt]

"The brain is the oldest known intact human brain from Europe and Asia" – So I take it the brain still works?

The card reads Abby Normal. Should be OK, what could go wrong?

Re:Intact human brain?

[ackthpt]

I could make a joke about presidential candidates here, but they already have fossilized brains.

I was considering an alegory to Tea Party members, but it would fall flat as I suspect everyone immediately made that association by now and has moved on to Young Frankenstein, Frankenstein and FRAHNK-en-STEEN.

It's tough luck coming late to the party.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Abby somebody.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Crudely_Indecent]

We know that he didn't weigh the same as a duck - those people were burned.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe after they transplant the brain in a brainless body, we'll find out why he was hanged in his time.

I'm sure we can find a lawyer somewhere who can finally serve a purpose.

Re:Intact human brain?

[schlachter]

The brain being intact at a gross level doesn't mean that it's intact at a cellular level...so I doubt the network topology of the brain is still in place. Besides, the brain has state which decays without active maintenance, so network topology alone is not sufficient.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Minwee]

Not only does it work, it is setting educational policy in Kentucky.

Re:Intact human brain?

[diakka]

You clearly have never seen Return of the Living Dead. Just destroying the brain is not enough. You must ether be cremated or at least have an ample supply of brains to eat, otherwise you will be driven mad by the pain of your own flesh rotting.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

None. After the brain is deprived of oxygen for a few minutes the cells die. Neurons have the highest cellular metabolic rate, among those the retina has the very very highest (you'll go blind before you go brain dead from general oxygen deprivation to the brain, or from sugar deprivation such as low sugar for a diabetic). The synapses of your brain won't fire without energy, so deprive them of that energy (sugar and oxygen) and they stop firing, thus you stop thinking. Low levels will cause your thoughts to generally slow down and scrable (hazy drunk like feeling). Generally the brain stem is the last to go as it has the highest suppy of oxgen. This means that you will first go blind, then lose reasoning skills and higher brain level skills, then motor skills and finally lose the ability for your lungs and heart to operate. Much better than the other way around I think, except for the blind part. By the time your heart stops you wont be really sentient anymore.

This is all of course assuming your brain doesn't go into some kinda of synaptic crash before hand. (yea, its possible for your brain to just trigger a self destruct and die, cases of people who died from a fall that wouldn't have killed them, a shot that wouldn't have killed them, etc, the trauma was too much for their brain, so all those "if you die in the matrix you die out here" type of sci-fi thing are actually true)

Re:Intact human brain?

[cpu6502]

>>>Suppose we were to hit this old intact brain with a jolt of electricity - would it feel it? Would it be conscious at some level for a brief moment but completely unable to inform us?

The neurons disconnect from one another when they die. When you hold a dead brain, you are holding a blank slate. Which is why freezing people after they die is pointless. Even if you could revive the body, the brain has nothing in it. (No memory; the person would be a vegetable.)

Re:Intact human brain?

[cpu6502]

>>>>>Maybe after they transplant the brain in a brainless body, we'll find out why he was hanged in his time.
>>
>>Convicted of a crime he didn't commit, of course...

Good luck trying to understand his ancient Celtic language when he speaks. I can just imagine a bunch of language professors mumbling, "I don't know what he's saying. He's not pronouncing the words properly. It sounds like Hillbilly Celtic."

Re:Intact human brain?

[kelemvor4]

whatcouldpossiblygowrong...

I smell a movie script for a very bad B-Movie. Working title "They saved prehistoric Hitler's brain"

IN 3D!

3D makes bad movies go good.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

3D makes good movies go bad.

FTFY

Re:Intact human brain?

[icebike]

After a shot to your heart your brain is still intact, but will soon cease working.

"Will soon cease working" != "Doesn't work".

Guess why it will stop working? Because it will cease being intact (due to missing oxygen).

Obligatory car analogy:

My engine is no longer intact because I ran out of fuel?

Re:Intact human brain?

[theshibboleth]

Not to mention that the body has a process that will start to chemically degrade the brain soon after death--unless that was somehow disrupted

Re:Intact human brain?

[icebike]

On a side note, one wonders how long could one keep a guillotined head alive if it were immediately connected to a blood supply (heart lung machine).

Re:Intact human brain?

[sjames]

In general, when someone is declared dead, their individual cells are still alive. The problem is tthat they will self destruct as soon as sufficient oxygen is made available (reperfusion).

I suppose the idea is to freeze the person during that window and hope that in the future we figure out how to solve the reperfusion problem, thaw tissue without causing cellular damage, and won't mind having a bunch of extra people nobody knows with no relevant skills hanging around. That last bvit seems to be a bit of a long shot.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, my candidate at least speaks rationally in normal English sentences about matters that will decide the economic fate of the US for decades to come. That doesn't sound fossilized.

Families, corporations, cities, states and national governments who have spent too much and earned too little go bankrupt and our current government is on track to do that.

I don't care about the party per se, but just living within our means such that growth occurs. Inadequate growth = one form or another of bankruptcy. Some call it inflation, others default, but it ruins retirees savings and limits jobs and hurts the very people many politicians claim to represent.

Re:Intact human brain?

[GNious]

wouldn't "out of oil" or "out of lubrication" be more correct? you cannot add oxygen to a defunct brain in order to repair it, just as adding fuel to an engine that has seized wont (likely) make it run.

Re:Intact human brain?

[HeckRuler]

how much a brain works after it is dead

It doesn't.

We don't really understand consciousness so we don't know how much of the brain is responsible for it

All of it.

Suppose we were to hit this old intact brain with a jolt of electricity - would it feel it?

Yes. The same way a rock feels the chisel splitting it. As long as you define "feel" as "is affected by".

Would it be conscious at some level for a brief moment but completely unable to inform us?

No.

Would it suffer a brief horrible dream?

No. The patterns, structure, and chemical reactions required for processing dreams no longer exist

It makes me feel like I want to have my brain completely obliterated somehow when I die so I can be sure there is nothing left that is capable of suffering

Rest easy friend, the meatspace is all there is. And even when you're alive and functioning, there's no suffering with structural damage to the brain. You're diminished, sure, and can be a vegestable afterwards. But pain is a tool of the system. It isn't applied when mucking about with the system. (Unless you cross a bad wire in which case, wow, that's gotta hurt).

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't really understand consciousness so we don't know how much of the brain is responsible for it.

Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know more than you think. Consciousness is maintained by a part of the brain stem.

Here is a good place to start learning about it, and here is a nice picture of the human brain, which the wikipedia article lacks.

This is, incidentally, the reason why a hanging is one of the most humane forms of execution (let's ignore the legal/moral quagmire for a moment). It instantly wrecks the precise part of the brain responsible for consciousness, if done correctly.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent down as troll.

Re:Intact human brain?

[BeanThere]

wtf? Um, sure, AC, I wonder who's trolling.

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the history of Europe is anything to go by, he was probably hanged for being a Jew.

Do you have some kind of agenda? 672BC was before the first exile to Babylon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Jewish_history#Biblical_period

Re:Intact human brain?

[bughunter]

The Soviets performed this experiment in the 1940's using a dog. [SFW but disturbing]

It's hard to say from the information given in the film, but I imagine the limiting factor on duration is the ability to supply all the proper nutrients, and after that, proper immune response.

Of course, then there's this... it creeped me out big time when I was a kid.

Re:Intact human brain?

[arkane1234]

And anonymous came from the greek term 'anonymos' meaning without a name, and coward came from the french word couard, meaning one with their tail between their legs.

So you're one with their legs between their legs, who has no name.

Re:Intact human brain?

[drfreak]

Only because it was perfectly preserved inside a tinfoil hat.

Re:Intact human brain?

[RancidPeanutOil]

Are those like the "language professors" who hate the man who discovered the trick to learning any language in ten weeks? Those language professors?

Hahahahahahaah. I'll be leaving now with all my philology jokes, thanks.

Re:Intact human brain?

[RancidPeanutOil]

I would love to see someone with their legs between their legs. Is that what the kids are linking to nowadays instead of goatse?

Re:Intact human brain?

[CodeBuster]

Quick, someone send it to the Houses of Parliament! An intact brain there will revolutionise our system of government!

Unfortunately, it appears that the brain was removed from the skull in several large pieces.

Re:Intact human brain?

[BeanThere]

Do you have some kind of agenda?

Could you explain to me how a single light comment on the historical fact that European history is replete with massive amounts of Jewish persecution, constitutes an "agenda"? The only way this is possible, given the plain historical facts, is if it is you you, in fact, who have an agenda.

Re:Intact human brain?

[BeanThere]

Here, read this, asshole, and tell me, please, with a straight face, that it is I who have the "agenda" here and not you:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/HistoryJewishPersecution/

My comment is obviously NOT trolling to anyone who has ever cared to open a history book, without some agenda to cover something up.

Re:Intact human brain?

[BeanThere]

To to moron moderators who are actually modding me troll just because some anti-semite Anonymous Coward says to, read this first.

Re:Intact human brain?

[BeanThere]

If the actual true history of Europe makes you so uncomfortable that you attack anyone who even so much as mentions it in a light off-the-cuff comment in an online discussion, then sorry, that is something you have to deal with and come to terms with.

Re:Intact human brain?

[HArchH]

OK lets put 20 seconds on the clock...

So apparently the UK believes in capital punishment.

Let's reanimate that thing and make a reality show watching him aclamate to 2012.

Maybe he hanged himself since living in the UK was just insufferable?

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

He he... It is not how long it will function but if its TOPOLOGY is preserved. If it is preserved, any number of bioradio phenomena are still possible! This explains lots of delusionary phenomena schizophrenics go through, like speaking mummies, cemetery ghosts, several types of ghosts, speaking with the dead, necromancer skull oracles, etc. More specifically: if the topology of the brain s neuron cells AND their interconnections is preserved after death, many residual ions and other molecules, in whatever form they decayed, will still be in place, and that structure can be **brought to life** (pun) by a suitable bioradio signal, by resonance. It is even conceivable that some apparent cognitive phenomena, including speech, be still sufficiently encoded and sufficiently reactive to an external biological radio, suitably encoded (live), signal, that the dead brain can produce some proper output. Say, like in an avalanche or chain reaction model, one live signal is enough to make some of the ions (in the dead brain) to cascade and produce a resonant, meaningful output signal, at least for a while (before reaching **total zero** equilibrium). This is more or less the rationale of the retina images of murders hypothesis: under conditions, the retina and the brain will stop acting while still retaining the last image they saw, with some luck that of the murderer, and this image can be retrieved with appropriately resonant signals. Schizophrenics are sensitive to these bounced, resonated signals, but tend to abscribe them ALL to fully active and functional brains, or to their own brain when in fact it is just a secondary, residual bioradio signal. Maybe these researchers ought to be VERY CAREFUL with their handling of the specimen and try to record such resonating signals. Though OF COURSE, it may be through **telepathic** resonance of bioradio that it is how they found it... :) :\ :( Danilo J Bonsignore

Re:Intact human brain?

[Anonymous Coward]

That still puts it a few notches above a politician's brain.......

Re:Intact human brain?

[Do You Smell That]

The thing is, you didn't *mention* it, you made an unverified probabilistic claim. Directly.

Your use of the word "probably" implies that *the most likely cause of death among people in England 2700 years ago was anti-semite persecution*. Logically following from here, if that's the most likely cause of death (which would qualify your "probably"), then a fairly large percent of 2700-year-back Yorkshire population would have had to be Jewish.

That's news to me.

Perhaps, just perhaps, people were modding you a Troll not because they believe Jews weren't persecuted... but more for the fact that you're making blanket, untrue statements, then following these up with ad-hominem attacks for anyone who doesn't chime in in agreement or downmods your terrible math.

Roughly 2684 years old?

[Anonymous Coward]

What, no time of death?

Re:Roughly 2684 years old?

[ciderbrew]

Around the time he was hanged.

Re:Roughly 2684 years old?

[metalmaster]

they couldnt get a good liver temp

2,684 years ago???

[al3]

But it's only 2012!

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Anonymous Coward]

Earth is 6000 years old, you silly.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Anonymous Coward]

Good one!

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you... serious?

Re:2,684 years ago???

[ccguy]

But it's only 2012!

I'll use an analogy to explain how this is possible. Imagine a game that is set in medieval times in which you are exploring castles 500 years old. The game is new, but the castles in it were old right from the start.

God played the same trick with us. The universe is 6000 years old, but when it was created (when he inserted the CD, if it makes you feel more comfy) it already had extinct species, people that had been dead for a few centuries and so on.
Clear now?

Re:2,684 years ago???

[al3]

Are you... serious?

No. See here. http://thesocialmuser.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/olympics-started-3000-years-ago-twitter_14.html

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Anonymous Coward]

They're using metric years.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but you're wrong. First, the world was not created by God, but by Higgs Entertainment Inc. And that was not 6000 year ago, but yesterday.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[schitso]

+1 "Poe's law"

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Opportunist]

History, n: TV channel nobody watches. No other meanings known to mankind.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Opportunist]

EA wants to have a word with that "God" you talk about for copyright infringement. He clearly stole their idea.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Opportunist]

They didn't account for leap years. Yes, yes, we only have one every 4 years, but in the older days when everything was better we had a LOT more of them!

*sigh* Oh the good ol' times...

Re:2,684 years ago???

[ccguy]

+1 "Poe's law"

I apologize. I'd like to add

:-)

To my original comment.

You never know who's going to google you.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[medv4380]

I'm not sure what is more sad. That some people might believe that or that some people who think they are smart believe that those people believe that. When someone posts that to #ImAFuckingDumbass or with a retarded cookie monster profile it's clearly a form of sarcasm, but since that doesn't communicate well some other dumb asses think they are being serious.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[PCM2]

It might only be 2012, but here's an article about this same brain from 2011, and it was actually discovered in 2008. "Old news," indeed.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is an analogy for you....
People from the past didn't have technology and science to determine how old the planet or mankind were. So, when man invented god and creationism he got the timeframe wrong. Scientists update their beliefs when new information is presented. Christians, however, can't admit they are wrong so they invent more and more preposterous claims to defend their childhood beliefs. The analogy: a little boy eats his little sister's candy. When accused, he says it was a leprechaun. When the leprechaun can't be found, the boy says it turned invisible. simple.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[residieu]

No, I'll stick with my "God's just a big practical joker" theory. That whole dinosaur thing still cracks him up.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Sulphur]

But it's only 2012!

No. It will be 2,684 years next Wednesday at noon.

Re:2,684 years ago???

[ignavus]

It might only be 2012, but here's an article about this same brain from 2011, and it was actually discovered in 2008. "Old news," indeed.

So this old brain is nothing new?

Re:2,684 years ago???

[Anonymous Coward]

This is real science.

New article on this thread alone requested!

Abby someone

[Anonymous Coward]

Abby . . . Normal. I'm almost sure that was the name.

Re:Abby someone

[CptNerd]

He probably had an enormous schwanstucker...

Re:Abby someone

[Moheeheeko]

........sed-a-give?!?!?!?!?

Re:Abby someone

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that goes without saying...

Re:Abby someone

[Anonymous Coward]

..woof...

Zombie Apocalypse...

[25or6to4]

Apparently the zombie apocalypse will last longer than expected if their food source stays preserved for 2000 years!

you would hope

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, it might be a bit sci-fi but with medical science breaking new ground almost every day, you'd hope that one day they could read out the stored information in that brain. Would be cool to solve murder cases. I mean,.. they've unraffled the protocol our eyes use to send data to the cortex.. some day perhaps, we might be able to read brains :)

Re:you would hope

[Anonymous Coward]

'Unraffled'? Good luck with that. Hope you win the brain raffle. You need it.

Re:you would hope

[tylikcat]

It's science fiction, but not utterly fantasy.

The visual decoding is all about electrical impulse carried through neurons. (And good luck resurrecting long dead neurons - especially in the CNS!*) But long term memory storage is looking to be more about protein conformation change... and it's barely conceivable that in a well enough preserved brain there might be enough residual information to decode. Kind of the biggest baddest hard drive forensics project ever.

Mind you, we aren't even close to being able to "read" memory information even under ideal circumstances.

* The CNS tends to suppress neuron regrowth. Sucks for people with spine or brain injuries, though I suppose it's a boon in terms of fewer tumors.

Re:you would hope

[Opportunist]

As far as I know, the brain works like RAM. In other words, once you pull the plug, it's only a matter of seconds 'til you can't read anything meaningful anymore.

Re:you would hope

[tylikcat]

And that's what makes the more recent data about protein conformational changes so interesting - it gives the impression that there could be something vaguely equivalent to a hard disk, that it's not all electrical signals needing to be maintained, but something a little more enduring.

Re:you would hope

[geekoid]

You are wrong, please never speak of it again.

Makes me wonder

[Anonymous Coward]

Was it in a glass vase and labeled "Abby Normal" ?

Er...

[Anonymous Coward]

...can I have it back please?

Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[sinij]

3000 years is less than human civilization. This brain is younger than parts of Old Testament.

If you want to study human brains like that, why not take a trip to a morgue? We are in no short of cadavers donated to science.

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[MyLongNickName]

Your hypothesis is that brains haven't changed much in 3,000 years. This brain is a good test of your hypothsis. What exactly is your problem with that?

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[sinij]

Thing is, there is very little you could test unless you get this 3,000 year old brain to boot up. Think of it this way - you are handed 2 non-working CPUs, could you tell if they are different? Perhaps if they have physically different (but human brains naturally deviate from the norm), but unless you have an ability to reverse-engineer these CPUs (and we don't have that ability for human brains) both would be just chunks of silicon.

Related: Have you seen TED talk by Juan Enriquez?
http://www.ted.com/talks/juan_enriquez_will_our_kids_be_a_different_species.html

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

You've brillantly and entirely missed the point. You must be a slashdot regular.

They can disect the brain to study it. Things like size and shape, as well as general structure can provide some insight. You are right that its not a gold mine. Just the same, iron and copper mines are still of value.

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[cusco]

Not civilization in northern and western Europe. That region was a barbaric, uncivilized backwater until the 16th century. When the Chinese built the Forbidden City they invited dignitaries from the entire known world, as far away as Timbuktu, to witness the opening ceremonies. Not only were they not invited, news of the event didn't even reach France and Germany for almost a century. It wasn't until the discovery of the Americas and the looting of the Aztec and Inca gold and silver that the region actually gained a place on the world map.

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[geekoid]

Oh, For the love of Jean-Martin Charcot, never compare the brain to a computer in that way.

"and we don't have that ability for human brains"
Stop it, jsut STOP! gah.

Shape, size, topology, chemical makeup all have meaningful information, even if we can't get to the memories.

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[BeanThere]

What good is this shiny pearl thing, snorted the pig ..

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[mcgrew]

3000 years is less than human civilization.

Are you that ignorant or just trolling? The Mayans and Egyptians had civilizations going back to 6,000 BC. The Thais and Chinese have written histories going back 5000 years. Between the Mayans and Egyptians, that's over 8000 years of civilizations (600 years BC+2000 years AD).

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[sinij]

Try re-reading it...

3000 years
human civilization > 3000;

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[jellomizer]

a 3000 year old brain may have some differences. The last 3000 years a lot of crazy things have happened to civilizations, that caused a fare amount of changes in breeding policies, and cultural effects, diets.
Roman Empire, Christianity, End Of Roman Empire, Dark Ages, Renascence, Spanish expansion, English Expansion, American Expansion....

We assume that ancient man was the same as us, if he was just born 3k years later he would just fit in fine... But that may not be the case. Perhaps with cross breading the Neanderthals we can see less a more predominate Neanderthal effects on the brain and body, that happened to reduce every few generations. Changes in Culture of Sexuality... A lot of thing could make the brains physically different then they are today.

Re:Why is 3000 year old brain is a big deal?

[camperdave]

The degree of Neandethalism would probably not be one of the characteristics shown by the brain. This person dates back to 1000BC. Neanderthals died out around 30,000BC. That type of information would more probably come from DNA analysis than organ morphology.

Brain and brain! What is brain?

[stevegee58]

Oblig Trek reference.

Abby Someone's Brain

[khr]

If he was probably hanged, then he may have been unfit for society (although that's not conclusive, as whoever did the hanging could easily have been the one unfit for society) so from this we can figure out the guy's name was probably Abby Someone, and his brain can be used for experiments.

Re:Abby Someone's Brain

[mtempsch]

If he was probably hanged, then he may have been unfit for society (although that's not conclusive, as whoever did the hanging could easily have been the one unfit for society).

Not necessarily either of them - it could have been ritual sacrifice, of a valued member, by other valued members, of society...

Re:Abby Someone's Brain

[geekoid]

He might be unfit for THAT society. Most modern civilized people would be considered unfit in a lot of societies 3000 years ago.

Re:Abby Someone's Brain

[Anonymous Coward]

Doctor Who, is that you?!?!

It was in a jar...

[SailorSpork]

...next to a sign with his name on it. I think it was something like "Abby Normal."

Re:It was in a jar...

[PPH]

Its Alive!

that explains everything

[slashmydots]

So, unnaturally preserved brain and they were executed by hanging...clearly this evidence is consistent with this individual being a witch, lol.

Re:that explains everything

[Siberwulf]

No evidence they weighed as much as a duck....

Re:that explains everything

[Anonymous Coward]

But, a brain weighs as much as a duck, therefore... A WITCH! Burn him! Then hang him again!

Re:that explains everything

[cusco]

Actually there are quite a number (hundreds) of preserved corpses of people that were hanged from this period which have been recovered from bogs in northern Europe. The tannins in bog water preserve the skin quite well, in several cases police were called first because the discoverers thought it was a recent murder. Some of them still have the rope around their neck. This site was probably anoxic as well if the soft tissues were also preserved. A quick search on "bog bodies" will bring up a plethora of information.

Re:that explains everything

[dbIII]

There's even a song about one of them: "Jerdacuttup man" by the Triffids.

There can only be one!

[Dyinobal]

Calling it now, it is someone Connor MacLeod killed.

Re:There can only be one!

[Daniel Dvorkin]

"Maybe he was so depressed by the lousy hunting that he went into the bog and hanged himself."

Re:Brain and brain! What is brain?

[SJHillman]

"I should have never reconnected his mouth."
  "Well, we took the risk, doctor."

Sounds like...

[Anonymous Codger]

...it's in better shape than mine.

Let's

[trevc]

Fire it back up and see if it still works.

Let's find out if it works!

[tekrat]

Just transplant into the next helmet-less motorcycle accident victim and viola! Maybe he can even recall what it was that got him hanged.

Re:Let's find out if it works!

[omnichad]

I think the first words you get will be:
"Aarrrraaaargh!!!!!! The pain! Why does my whole body hurt? Where am I?"

Wouldn't that be considered inhumane?

Only a scientist could talk like this

[macraig]

"The cranium is well designed to protect the brain in life and can, under the right circumstances, remain on duty long after the normal expectation of service," he said.

"Normal expectation of service"! Gotta remember that one.

Re:Only a scientist could talk like this

[tylikcat]

Pfeh. Everyone knows the waranty wears off at 25 (though, ahem, you can void it earlier) but they generally are still in reasonable functioning condition through 2-3 times that long and in extreme cases have still been known to still be in service after more than 100 years.

Re:Only a scientist could talk like this

[Anonymous Coward]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3053749&cid=41023259

"about"???

[mark-t]

".. dated to about 2,684 years ago"

Saying that it happened about 2684 years ago implies (at least to me) that they can date it between precisely 2683 and 2685 years. Does it not strike anyone else as odd that they could pinpoint something that long ago so precisely?

Re:"about"???

[Anonymous Coward]

It had a label right on it that said 672 BC!

Re:"about"???

[Anonymous Coward]

The number 2684 appears nowhere in the academic article. They do note that, "[a] calibrated radiocarbon date of
673 - 482BC was obtained from collagen extracted from the mandible (OxA-20677: 2469 +- 34 bp)."

I assume that the author at Discovery News took the liberty to assume the oldest date (and the existence of a year zero, btw).

Re:"about"???

[TheMathemagician]

They probably used dendrochronology from some piece of wood found nearby. There are databases of ring growths going back thousands of years so it's possible to date to an exact year.

Re:"about"???

[Anonymous Coward]

Doh! I failed on the year zero correction. Always off by one, never to be a real programmer.

Re:"about"???

[Anonymous Coward]

".. dated to about 2,684 years ago"

Saying that it happened about 2684 years ago implies (at least to me) that they can date it between precisely 2683 and 2685 years. Does it not strike anyone else as odd that they could pinpoint something that long ago so precisely?

The journal article dates it as 673-482BC by means of a calibrated radiocarbon method. So that's between 2493-2684 years old.

Re:"about"???

[Minwee]

There are three types of errors that programmers make: Logic errors, and off-by-one errors.

Re:"about"???

[Hillgiant]

".. dated to about 2,684 years ago"

Saying that it happened about 2684 years ago implies (at least to me) that they can date it between precisely 2683 and 2685 years. Does it not strike anyone else as odd that they could pinpoint something that long ago so precisely?

It is a much rounder number in metric.

Re:"about"???

[phantomfive]

They were converting from metric to imperial. In metric years they got the precision right, 2684 in metric years is 1600rs.

Re:"about"???

[Daniel Dvorkin]

In the linked PDF article, see the end of the second column of the third page, right above Figure 2. They're reporting a mean and a confidence interval. These kinds of numbers seem absurdly specific, but really, it's the right way to report the results--I can pretty much guarantee you that if the authors had written "about 2600 years old," the editor at Journal of Archaological Science would have demanded a clarification, and rightly so.

Looks like it's actually slightly younger than TFS says. "2684" doesn't appear anywhere in the article, so I'm not sure where that came from in the Discovery writeup.

"a waterlogged U.K. pit"

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh come on. Why not just say London.

Re:"a waterlogged U.K. pit"

[dkleinsc]

Specifically, at 10 Downing Street.

Re:"a waterlogged U.K. pit"

[Sulphur]

Specifically, at 10 Downing Street.

Due to a rounding error, it was 11 Downing Street, hone of the Cheque Exer.

Normally...

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> death was...consistent with hanging.

Scientist: I can't wait to study this wonderfully preserved brain specimen! Was there any other information with the corpse?

Assistant: There was a chisled rock with his name on it.

Scientist: Really! What was his name?

Assistant: Abby something.

This is good news for Chris Dodd

[interval1066]

We have a spare brain for the man's empty head.

Re:This is good news for Chris Dodd

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL

take that chris dadd

Bad idea

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't want to do that. It will terrorize the neighborhood until they come running out with pitchforks and poor Dr Frankenstein will have to leave town.

Abby Something

[Anonymous Coward]

And what are they going to do with the brain really?

Take your pick

[Dareth]

Take your pick:
A: He chiseled state secrets on a cave wall.
B: He had consensual group sex with one of his students.
C: Headbutted his wife, star of a campfire reality show.
D: Was really Cowboy Neal using his new time machine.

Family Member

[OldGunner]

"...but in this case, damage to the neck vertebrae is consistent with a hanging."
I'll have to dig out the old family trees and see if it is a relative. Knowing my family lines, it probably is.

Have they figured out his birthday?

[opusbuddy]

Was it by chance, October 16th?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Year_Old_Man

Date

[Anonymous Coward]

What year was this news?

Re-animation possible?

[Anonymous Coward]

Scan it into a computer and digitize it and hook it up to skywrm....

Maybe it will hang itself again after seeing the MLP mods...

matrix

[Anonymous Coward]

damn....if he'd only held out for another 50 years or so
we could have scanned him in and rebuilt him in the matrix

just a little to early to be rebooted
that sucks

Old news is old

[surveyork]

"Wed Apr 6, 2011 05:30 AM ET"
I think it's nice that a pretty intact brain was discovered, but this news item is more than a year old.

Monty Python

[guttentag]

I bet if you hook it up to a speaker and say, "Bring out your dead!" it will reply, "I'm not dead!"

Credit where credit is due

[ThatsNotPudding]

"And we would all like to thank the fine fellow who broght us this find... a Mr. Igor.. what? that's his first name? Well find out his sirname, my good man!"

Spock's been there...

[EGSonikku]

Damn, those Eymorgs have gotten around.

2600 year old brain

[lowkster]

Insert Sara Palin joke

Brain Scan

[end15]

I wonder if it's in good enough condition that it still has traces of the long term memory? If so it could be scanned and someday be reconstructed and provide a world of history to us. Very interesting.

Futurama requirement

[Anonymous Coward]

Put it into a jar!

How is this prehistoric?

[dmacleod808]

Egypt was a civilization with writing and everything at this point in history... Maybe if it was 10,000 years old...

Gets better with age

[bughunter]

Quote FTA:

The scientists found no evidence for bacterial or fungal activity, and described the tissue as being "odorlesswith a resilient, tofu-like texture." The mild nuttiness of the brain is remarkable for its age. The scientists chose a California pinot noir to accompany the brain.

Okay... fixxord a little bit, I confess.

There must be a Yoda joke in there somewhere

[Anonymous Coward]

2600 years old and still in one piece

I thought only a Big Mac could accomplish that feat of magic.

Abby Normal

[some old guy]

Wunderbar! Let's study a hanged criminal's brain and attach all sorts of conjectural conclusions to the analysis!

An opportunity to test the Bicameralism hypothesis

[cjellibebi]

There's a theory that ancient literature from about 3000 years ago points to humans having a different way of perceiving the world than they do today (Bicameral Mind). This is described in the following Wikipedia article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_%28psychology%29 ).

>"For example, in the Iliad and sections of the Old Testament no mention is made of any kind of cognitive processes such as introspection, and there is no apparent indication that the writers were self-aware."

While 2684 years isn't quite as old as 3000 years, there might be a chance that part of this 'previous state of conciousness' may be preserved.

possible identity

[Ginger Unicorn]

i think his name was abbie someone...