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Workers Working An Extra 20 Hours a Week Thanks To BYOD

Qedward writes with the apparent downside of bring-your-own-device policies. From the article: "Many employees are working up to 20 additional hours per week unpaid as a result of bring your own device (BYOD) policies adopted by their firms, many of which have no security safeguards. According to the quarterly Mobile Workforce Report from enterprise Wi-Fi access firm iPass, a third of mobile enterprise workers never fully disconnect from technology during their during personal time The report also said that 92% of mobile workers 'enjoy their job flexibility' and are 'content' with working longer hours. In fact, said the report, 42% would like 'even greater flexibility for their working practices.' But 19% of mobile workers said their companies did not require security on smartphones or tablets to access work data."

202 comments

  1. Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Occasionally glancing at your cellphone while getting black out drunk with your idiot friends doesn't sound like work to me...

    1. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Occasionally glancing at your cellphone while getting black out drunk with your idiot friends doesn't sound like work to me...

      I'm a taste tester for Johnny Walker you insensitive clod! They want to know how bad my blackouts and hangovers are!

    2. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does to me, since I was obviously working at 11PM on Friday. See, I sent an email asking for a status update!

    3. Re:Cry me a river... by plover · · Score: 1

      Occasionally glancing at your cellphone while getting black out drunk with your idiot friends doesn't sound like work to me...

      I'm a taste tester for Johnny Walker you insensitive clod! They want to know how bad my blackouts and hangovers are!

      You hiring? I'm more than qualified and have a long history a d rich experience with various forms of whiskey, including blackout and falling down experience.

      And do you have extra openings for my mates?

      --
      John
    4. Re:Cry me a river... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even if it is, I'd rather spend 15 minutes at 11pm typing an e-mail that will solve a problem right then, than having to spend 2 hours fixing something first thing the next morning.

      My boss is one of those guys who doesn't check his e-mail at home (or at least not very often) and not on his smartphone. But he goes home at 3 as part of his flex hours. If something happens that he's really really needed, well, you wait until tomorrow, which just adds stress, confusion and sometimes creates new problems as people try and do what they need without him, and make life hard for themselves.

      I'd rather be 'on call' every day for 4 hours after work, on top of my 8 hours a day at work if that means those 8 hours aren't spent cleaning up messes created in my absence, or if that means other teams (including other time zones) can actually get their shit done on time. That makes my working hours a lot less stressful, and gives me more time during working hours to do things like post on /.

      I did a job once that was multinational - next day for anything. So if we had a problem that needed authorization for spending or an engineering decision or whatever at 10 in the morning our time, we'd be stuck waiting on our arses until the next day for someone at one of the corporate offices to look at it. Which was just a huge waste of time and money, and made doing anything on site a nightmare because you could never be sure how long you'd be stuck there.

    5. Re:Cry me a river... by kelemvor4 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Occasionally glancing at your cellphone while getting black out drunk with your idiot friends doesn't sound like work to me...

      I'm a taste tester for Johnny Walker you insensitive clod! They want to know how bad my blackouts and hangovers are!

      I'm going to put in an application with Trojan right now.

    6. Re:Cry me a river... by vlm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not all jobs involve problems where the repair commitment expands over time. Maybe car mechanic? Factory on a quota/piecework system? Struggling to think of a stereotypical /.er job like that. Personally I've never had to do anything afterhours, in decades, other than fundamentally because there's an angry waiting internal or external customer. Never to save time.

      So if we had a problem that needed authorization for spending or an engineering decision or whatever at 10 in the morning our time, we'd be stuck waiting

      That's an executive level cultural problem thats outside your paygrade to fix, so don't worry about it or change your lifestyle. I've intentionally never worked anywhere without a 24x7 escalation sheet and a culture of "better ask forgiveness than permission". I've turned down jobs at bureaucratic micromanagement style companies for those exact cultural reasons. If thats the way they want to run things, thats fine, but its not my problem, I'll patiently wait.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:Cry me a river... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Occasionally glancing at your cellphone while getting black out drunk with your idiot friends doesn't sound like work to me...

      I don't really get why this post was modded down. I watch my email over the weekend, too. When the phone is silent, which mercifully over the weekends it usually is, then I know I'm not going to come in to a clusterfuck on Monday. I suppose that time I sit on the can reading the email is 'work' and that you could add that up to show my work week is longer, but I earned myself some peace-of-mind. If I do have to bail somebody out, then my quick response will be remembered come layoff time.

      My stress level is pretty low.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    8. Re:Cry me a river... by idontgno · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're seeking a job as a condom taste-tester?

      Not my idea of a dream job, but if it's what floats your boat....

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    9. Re:Cry me a river... by jeffmeden · · Score: 2

      "From: Doe, John [US/CORPHQ]
      Sent: Fri 2/13/2012 6:35PM
      Help I have a small grease fire! I am contemplating dousing it with water. Any advice? --JD"

      If I can tell that idiot to use baking soda instead of water, he will stand a much better chance at saving himself and others a lot of time, money, and effort as opposed to ignoring it until monday. The analogues in the business world are MANY, I come across them all the time. If you don't see them, maybe you aren't in that kind of job, or you just aren't the fix-it guy.

    10. Re:Cry me a river... by icebike · · Score: 1

      This.

      The cell phone with real email capability, full document attachments, links, etc was a godsend.

      It got me away from my desk, while remaining fully responsive to my customers and employees.
      Its cut international long distance charges to zero with skype and SIP clients right there on the phone.

      By and large the intrusion into private time has been less than you might expect. Most people are fairly responsible
      about calling after normal business hours, and the few pests that require excessive hand-holding soon find that voice mails
      will be responded to in a time frame longer than it would take for them to solve it themselves.

      Answering an email on a tablet or phone now and then is a small price to pay for not having to sit in the office all day waiting
      for something to happen. Having my full source code base on the device for quick reference is another godsend.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    11. Re:Cry me a river... by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      Even if it is, I'd rather spend 15 minutes at 11pm typing an e-mail that will solve a problem right then, than having to spend 2 hours fixing something first thing the next morning.

      You seem to have missed reading the headline, let alone TFA "Workers Working An Extra 20 Hours a Week". You won't get two hours off tomorrow for your 15 minutes of work at 11pm. You'll still work be at work tomorrow morning. Now that you have put yourself on call at 11pm, they don't need to pay someone else to do it, so staffing levels go down, your workload goes up. If you're a shareholder this is great. If you're an employee, if you're married and have children, or you just like to sleep at night, maybe not so rosy.

      I'd rather be 'on call' every day for 4 hours after work, on top of my 8 hours a day at work

      You need a hobby and some friends.

    12. Re:Cry me a river... by icebike · · Score: 1

      I suppose that time I sit on the can reading the email is 'work' and that you could add that up to show my work week is longer,

      Exactly.
      The story, I believe, is over hyped.

      They seem not to just measure the time spent reading emails (because there is no way that adds up to 20 hours per week). They simply attribute all the time you might receive and read an email to an extra hour at work. Of course that is just silly, as two minutes reading an email and sending a one line reply from a cell phone between the 6th and 7th green hardly count's as an hours worth of work.

      Getting yanked off the golf course to come into the office EVEN ONCE costs me way more time and money than answering an email.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    13. Re:Cry me a river... by wjousts · · Score: 2

      Sure. Just bend over and grab your ankles. I hear they are testing the magnum extra large ones today.

    14. Re:Cry me a river... by element-o.p. · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With all due respect, I disagree, and I *am* the fix-it guy -- well, one of two, anyway -- where I work. The solution, in my experience, is simple. First, hire competent people with good judgment. Second, trust them to do their job. If you abide by those two rules, then you should be able to seriously reduce the number of escalations when there's a problem after hours.

      Yes, I get called out after-hours or on the weekends from time to time. Yes, 10% -- maybe even as high as 20% at times -- don't really need my attention RIGHT FREAKING NOW but for the most part, the people who escalate to me are pretty good at triage and won't call me unless there's something they really need me to look at. And when I do get called to look at something, I generally don't get called out on the carpet for the steps I've taken to resolve the issue unless I do something *REALLY* boneheaded, and off-hand, I can't think of a single time in over six years with my present employer that that's happened. I've maybe had my boss say something like, "You probably should clear that with a manager before doing that again," once or twice, but that's about it.

      As far as being on-call for an additional four hours every day after my eight hour shift (from your original post)...well, if my employer needs fix-it guys after hours that badly, then they'd better hire some more employees, or they'd better up my pay significantly so that I can retire early. Otherwise, I'll answer the phone when/if I have time, but I make no guarantees. I'd consider six hours in the office and four hours on-call for an eight-hour-a-day salaried position, since I know I wouldn't get called every day, but I'll find a new job if you tell me you want to pay me for eight hours a day and have me on-call for free for an additional four. Life is too short to spend 12 hours a day working indefinitely. My parents worked their butts off for years. Then in 2006, my dad died from an aneurism. They had made all kinds of plans for what they'd do "one of these days" and never got to accomplish A. Single. One. Of. Them. because they didn't take time while they had the chance. My mom, a "32-hour per week" employee worked 5x12 (sometimes 6x12 or more) for the last year before my dad died; she just about completely missed out on his last year on earth. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I *can* be taught. The only time you have is RIGHT NOW. IME, there are very few people who wished they could have worked a few more hours in their lifetimes, but plenty who wished they'd crossed a few more items off their bucket lists or spent a little more time with their loved ones.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    15. Re:Cry me a river... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Funny

      "From: Doe, John [US/CORPHQ] Sent: Fri 2/13/2012 6:35PM Help I have a small grease fire! I am contemplating dousing it with water. Any advice? --JD"

      If I can tell that idiot to use baking soda instead of water, he will stand a much better chance at saving himself and others a lot of time, money, and effort as opposed to ignoring it until monday.

      Perhaps, but conversely, if you ignore the request, you stand a much better chance of never having to deal with that particular moron ever again!

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    16. Re:Cry me a river... by jeffmeden · · Score: 2

      Even if it is, I'd rather spend 15 minutes at 11pm typing an e-mail that will solve a problem right then, than having to spend 2 hours fixing something first thing the next morning.

      You seem to have missed reading the headline, let alone TFA "Workers Working An Extra 20 Hours a Week". You won't get two hours off tomorrow for your 15 minutes of work at 11pm.

      The thing about a lot of knowledge-based jobs is that usually a company (even a big one) has one, maybe two or three people with deep domain knowledge into a particular subject. This means that you are responsible for every issue regarding subject X, regardless of if it's too much work or if the issue comes up on the weekend or whatever. If you choose to ignore things over the weekend, and to ignore things that require working more than 8 hours a day, sure you can probably get away with it and you might even survive the next round of layoffs (but no guarantees.)

      If solving a problem in 15 minutes that would have ballooned into a 2 hour fiasco once management gets their hands on it (say for example if the customer is shitstorm mad that they were waiting for an answer all weekend and now want a dog and pony show to keep them happy) then hell yes I would rather spend the 15 minutes on it now and maybe i can get something else productive done the next day with those 2 hours (or i can post to slashdot... ahem).

      You are right that this comes down to understanding. What it means is that a worker (who is getting paid to fill a role, not getting paid to perform piecemeal work) can now be productive 4 more hours a day without being in the office for those 4 hours. Given the choice between staying in the office for 12 hours, and taking a 33% pay cut so that the company can hire someone else to show up for those 4 hours to get that work done, i would rather keep the money and blast out a few emails after hours. This is the new economy, it's not a question of convincing management to keep 2 guys around doing the same job. It's a question of are you the one guy left or are you are the one guy let go (hint they will probably choose the one that knows how to be more productive.)

    17. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're seeking a job as a condom taste-tester?

      Not my idea of a dream job, but if it's what floats your boat....

      ROFL.....I think I just peed a little.

    18. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds not too different from some people in the office here...

    19. Re:Cry me a river... by jeffmeden · · Score: 3

      Your point is taken, but for the record I wasn't the one who made the "original post" and you weren't the target of my example; I was pointing out that many jobs outside of car mechanics and factory work DO involve snowball issues that are best dealing with early on. An ounce of prevention, as it were. If you don't experience this in your job, then it sounds like a good spot and I suggest keeping it for a long time. Those of us who arent that lucky, get that availability has its price and its benefits.

    20. Re:Cry me a river... by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I call people that do this....stupid

      I work my ass off when at work...but I bill every hour. My time is too important to me, to just 'give' it away to work.

      When I walk out the door and it slaps me on the ass, all thoughts about it and concerns about it end at that door.

      If they need me, sure I'm there..and I'll work all that is required, but never for free.

      If they know they have to pay you, they will think twice about asking you to do stupid shit that can wait.

      Even when I work W2, I make sure and negotiate into my employment agreement, that I get paid at least hourly rate for any extra hours worked over 40 per week.

      Know your worth....insist on getting paid for your time, I don't think many of us out here are that altruistic.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    21. Re:Cry me a river... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      I've never understood people that don't demand to be paid for every hour they work....?

      Even with W2 gigs...I make sure I am going to be paid at least the hourly rate (easy to calculate from salary) for every hour I work.

      Is your time not worth that much to you? Life is short man...don't give your hours to a company for free.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    22. Re:Cry me a river... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      My stress level is pretty low.

      My stress level is low too....I leave work thoughts behind the second I leave the work site.

      They don't pay me to worry about work when I'm not there...my time is too important to me to give it away for free to a company. My time is my time.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    23. Re:Cry me a river... by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      Oops...you are correct. My apologies.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    24. Re:Cry me a river... by AwesomeMcgee · · Score: 1

      This. I hardly ever respond or deal with e-mails outside of work, but the once a month when someone does a dumbs, knowing the night before that I'm going to have to be prepared the next day for triage mode is worth it's weight in gold. Makes me less stressed during release times because I have foresight into my days and helps my career a great deal by just knowing to appear highly available the following day so whenever these things happen people know I'll be ready for them.

      Again, I really practically never respond to those e-mails, just the foresight of seeing them when these things happen (reading my e-mail on the can or during commercials) is invaluable. Sure call this time work because if the right e-mail comes in I will take action, but only a horribly organized company will have that e-mail coming in more than once every month or two at most.

    25. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      STOP SPYING ON ME!

    26. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I've never understood people who are uptight sticks in the mud and deal with everything from a mercenary's point of view.

    27. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, someone's got to do it so we all can continue to receive safe blow jobs.

    28. Re:Cry me a river... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      They don't pay me to worry about work when I'm not there...my time is too important to me to give it away for free to a company. My time is my time.

      I'm not paid to keep my chair from flying up and hit the ceiling, I'm paid to get work done. Sometimes I answer an email during my off hours, sometimes I pay my bills while I'm at work. The moment I start getting pissy about my hours is the moment they start worrying about things like how much time I spend on Slashdot. I don't need that.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    29. Re:Cry me a river... by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      That's the thing, it's not about "free" vs "paid". If my job were to deburr widgets and I got paid $1 per widget that I successfully deburred, sure I won't sit around on my free time deburring widgets without making any extra money for it. That's not what this economy is like though. If you are in a position where you can bill OT for every moment you spend thinking about work, great for you. Not many are in that position though, and those that aren't realize that a competitive advantage can be had by being as available as possible.

      The bottom line is that if everyone else is doing it, you had sure as shit better do it too if you want to stay competitive.

    30. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the moment they start worrying about things like how much time I spend on Slashdot."

      Your first hour on the job is often when companies start worrying about that crap. There are a lot of bad managers and employers out there. I hope you don't work for one.

    31. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Occasionally glancing at your cellphone while getting black out drunk with your idiot friends doesn't sound like work to me...

      I'm a taste tester for Johnny Walker you insensitive clod! They want to know how bad my blackouts and hangovers are!

      I'm going to put in an application with Trojan right now.

      Trojan!! THIS IS SPARTAAAAAA!!!!

    32. Re:Cry me a river... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      I did work for one like that once and he wasn't like that in the beginning. Most bosses at some point encounter some sort of pressure to improve productivity. Maybe it's budgetary, maybe it's just the appearance that something is falling behind, it could be a number of reasons. It has been my experience that it's a bad idea to bring negativity to a workplace.

      Tell your boss you won't do something at your own risk.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    33. Re:Cry me a river... by CycleMan · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they use a legal/union standard for their math -- 2 hour minimum for each interruption.

      Me, I get paid to get the job done. If my brain starts writing an email at 10:30 pm, I'm happy to get out of bed and type it up. Saves me the need to remember to write it the next morning, and I get turn-around from others because my message is the latest in their inbox. This willingness to work on something for a tad after dinner or late at night means I go home at a normal predictable hour, see my family and spend good time with them, and have the freedom to flex my schedule.

      Disclaimer: I work for a big company that values work-life balance in practice and still pays competitive wages. Your employer may vary.

    34. Re:Cry me a river... by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 2

      It reminds me one of my experiences

      We were trying very hard to get our users not to bother the in situ support but to call the help desk, with users trying to call the in situ tech because they knew him personally.

      One day, nearly at the end of the day, I got a call from a stressed user "My PC has caught fire!". I thought "Ok, she needs a replacement" and told her to call the help desk and got out.

      When I was arriving home, it dawned on me that the user never did say that the fire was already out... and maybe she was asking advice on PC firefight. I thought to check what had happened next day, but later I thought that it was better not to raise the issue. To this day I still don't know.

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    35. Re:Cry me a river... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Tell your boss you will do anything at your own risk.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    36. Re:Cry me a river... by icebike · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they use a legal/union standard for their math -- 2 hour minimum for each interruption.

      Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but didn't want to stir up all the union members on slashdot.
      It looks like angling for a way to get paid to answer an email.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    37. Re:Cry me a river... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      That's not what this economy is like though. If you are in a position where you can bill OT for every moment you spend thinking about work, great for you. Not many are in that position though, and those that aren't realize that a competitive advantage can be had by being as available as possible.

      The bottom line is that if everyone else is doing it, you had sure as shit better do it too if you want to stay competitive.

      You have to value yourself, and know your self worth.

      If you are good, then in reality, there are PLENTY of jobs to be had out there....if you are good, you can choose what you want to work for, what conditions you are willing to work for....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    38. Re:Cry me a river... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Tell your boss you won't do something at your own risk.

      If you're good enough...there are plenty of jobs out there to be had man....if you're good enough, no...you don't have to take shit off a boss.

      Look no job out there cares about YOU anymore....develop that mentality...mercenary.

      Smart thing to do..incorporate yourself, and contract...just be confident, know the going rates, and learn to negotiate....no matter what job you work these days, a W2 is just as disposable to them as a contractor is....so, you might as well get the bill rate to go with the instability. Unless you like working 12+ hour days for 8 hours pay....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    39. Re:Cry me a river... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Q: What's your biggest weakness?

      A: I'm kind of mercenary, and I like to give stupid answers to stupid questions.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    40. Re:Cry me a river... by Platinumrat · · Score: 1

      "From: Doe, John [US/CORPHQ] Sent: Fri 2/13/2012 6:35PM Help I have a small grease fire! I am contemplating dousing it with water. Any advice? --JD"

      If I can tell that idiot to use baking soda instead of water, he will stand a much better chance at saving himself and others a lot of time, money, and effort as opposed to ignoring it until monday.

      Perhaps, but conversely, if you ignore the request, you stand a much better chance of never having to deal with that particular moron ever again!

      Totally agree on this. If the situation is that the people using the system don't have the training or tools to do their job safely, then it's a management problem. They can explain to the shareholders, coroner what and why things turned to shit.

    41. Re:Cry me a river... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      If you're good enough...there are plenty of jobs out there to be had man....if you're good enough, no...you don't have to take shit off a boss.

      ...if you're good enough at the job your boss is willing to pay you for. Fixed that for you. Every little stunt you pull lowers your value with your boss. Lower your value enough, lose your job.

      We're not going to fall on our swords for you.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    42. Re:Cry me a river... by drooling-dog · · Score: 2

      You don't sound American. Here in the U.S., we brag about working long hours and not taking vacations. Whoever gets the rawest deal from the massah is the winner!

    43. Re:Cry me a river... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      Struggling to think of a stereotypical /.er job like that

      Engineer, scientist, IT guy, basically any IT guy for a business that works 24/7 constantly has this problem. I'm not technically an engineer but I have done a lot of engineering work as I am both a scientist and IT guy by training.

      My boss authorizes things. He's a scientist too, but he controls the purse strings and access to 'secure' (not actually secure but you know what I mean) rooms and so on. If someone needs something from a lab and he's not there, and you aren't authorized to go in, well you wait until tomorrow, you try and find someone who is authorized that you can convince to let you in, or you try and cope without whatever you need.

      That's an executive level cultural problem thats outside your paygrade to fix,

      What do you think /. is full of? Highschool and one year out of college IT minions? My job is design systems (both technical and procedural), and to do research. My boss is a scientist who oversees research. We have procedures because we are entrusted with the publics money and someone walking away with 20 grand in computers tends to go over poorly.

      its not my problem, I'll patiently wait.

      maybe this is why you think we're all low level drones?

      You waiting patiently is called wasting money. If you waited patiently for an hour while your boss was in a meeting then it was polite and appropriate, if you wasted a day waiting for me to do my job then that was either my fault, or yours, depending, but either way, it wasted money that could have been better spent elsewhere.

    44. Re:Cry me a river... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      You won't get two hours off tomorrow for your 15 minutes of work at 11pm. You'll still work be at work tomorrow morning.

      and you seem to have failed at reading what I said.

      I'd rather spend 15 minutes dealing with a problem now than dealing with it for 2 hours tomorrow. That's why, when I'm *AT* work I am not scrambling to fix things.

      your workload goes up

      Depends on the problem. My point precisely was that my workload goes down the sooner I resolve issues.

      If you're an employee, if you're married and have children, or you just like to sleep at night, maybe not so rosy.

      My family would rather I answer e-mail for 15 minutes while I'm at home than get trapped in the office for an extra two hours tomorrow.

    45. Re:Cry me a river... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

      I've never understood people that don't demand to be paid for every hour they work....?

      Depends how you're paid. And how you want to count 'work'.

      If you are responsible for something, and that guarantees you a decent monthly/yearly salary and isn't an hourly rate then you take responsibility for it, and you find the way that minimizes your stress level. Being part of any organization that's going 24/7 means you necessarily have to deal with occasional things at odd hours.

      As I said (and I realize you're not replying to me), I'd rather reduce the stress in the hours I'm officially at work and stay on top of problems than spend those hours scrambling to fix shit people broke in my absence. That's the difference between being responsible for something, and working for someone.

    46. Re:Cry me a river... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      You have to value yourself, and know your self worth.

      This, if you're valuable and capable and willing to take on responsibility for something then you don't bitch about having to actually be responsible for it. That may mean you work 9 hour days or bizarre hours rather than 8 hour days to partially overlap both shifts, it may mean you answer e-mails at night, it may mean you're a doctor and get paid to be on call this week.

      .if you are good, you can choose what you want to work for

      Sure, and you can choose to never take responsibility for a 24/7 IT shop or whatever. But if you're valuable and stay on top of problems a good employer will recognize and reward that. Especially if they're a 24/7 business and value people who are looking for ways to keep the company from wasting money on idle people.

    47. Re:Cry me a river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you're probably not the person we need.

    48. Re:Cry me a river... by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      This is the new economy, it's not a question of convincing management to keep 2 guys around doing the same job. It's a question of are you the one guy left or are you are the one guy let go (hint they will probably choose the one that knows how to be more productive.)

      Okay. Well,if that's how your company is then I guess you have to try to be the "one guy". And it explains the unspoken pressure of why people do more and more unpaid work.

      But a point of nomenclature: that isn't the "new economy" you are describing. Its the dog eat dog unbridled capitalism of the 19th century. Read some Charles Dickens and you'll see lots of stories about this same "new economy".

    49. Re:Cry me a river... by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      My family would rather I answer e-mail for 15 minutes while I'm at home than get trapped in the office for an extra two hours tomorrow.

      After a while, you will be expected to do both. And smile. But it seems you are already doing that. Stockholm Syndrome I guess.

    50. Re:Cry me a river... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It varies with volume. Always on call is not a really big deal if the call only comes once or twice a year.

    51. Re:Cry me a river... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      Erm no, that's precisely not what I said. If you take care of things properly you aren't stuck playing catch up, because things are prevented from becoming big problems that require crisis management.

      I'm at work 2 hours later than my boss yes, but he goes home at 3, I probably could do the same, but I don't have kids, and don't particularly want to show up at 7 in the morning, he works 7-3, I work 9-5. Although that would be why he always has the 3rd parking spot in our lot for our building with 500+ staff in it.

    52. Re:Cry me a river... by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      Glad it works for you.

    53. Re:Cry me a river... by garaged · · Score: 1

      Also you can work for a wage that covers any extra work you would normally do, that way you are always being overpaid :)

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
    54. Re:Cry me a river... by neyla · · Score: 1

      It depends on what "on call" means. If I am "on call" then I must:
      * Not drink alcohol. * Have a car available. * Be able to show up at work in 30 minutes (i.e. be -near- my home-city). * Have my wife home, or a babysitter on call. * Don't turn off my phone, or put it on silent. * Be reachable by phone. (i.e. no going out of cover, no going windsurfing, no going swimming, no paddling unless I bring the phone along.

      All of the above adds up to some burden, even if the phone never rings. I'm compensated with 20% of my normal pay for being "on call" though, so that makes it okay, but I'd never consider doing it for free.

    55. Re:Cry me a river... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      There are plenty of jobs out there if you are good enough. One should be contstntly in the market for a new job...keep the resume up, do regular interviews....and when better conditions/pay comes up....move to the next opportunity!!

      The day of one job for life, and a company that cares about YOU are long over...you have to look out for you, and keep moving around unless you hit one that is just too good to be true...then hang there for awhile.

      If one boss isn't willing to pay me for what I think my time is worth....it is time to find a new boss,

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    56. Re:Cry me a river... by peawormsworth · · Score: 1

      Occasionally glancing at your cellphone while getting black out drunk with your idiot friends doesn't sound like work to me...

      Having to check my cellphone for work while getting drunk with friends does sound like work to me. Otherwiese, you are a manager and do not understand the perspective of an employee or the concept of free time.

    57. Re:Cry me a river... by nobodie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I just came back to the US and went to work at a public university. took on an extra part-time job as admin for one of the programs. The woman who was my director had never used most of her vacation time, arrived at 9 and left at 7 or 8 every day and considered this to be a virtue. My suggestion that she was foolishly working too hard, not because it meant she was getting ripped off by our employer, but because she wasn't using her "real" work time efficiently. I pointed out that the amount of time she spent on personal stuff, (you know the list) was more than the difference of overtime she was working, so she just was really hanging out at the office for no real purpose.

      But her husband did the same thing, so if she went home she would be there alone, and be lonely.

      And to be considered a "hard worker" you were expected to be there those extra hours. SHe was often remarked on as someone who "worked extra hard " when she wasn't actually working hard, just inefficiently.

      I used to work for a very wise old man who always sent people home on time and without any overtime. "you need to be with your family" he would say. He was right. Nowadays I really appreciate that about him and spend all my off hours with my wife and kids. When I work, I focus on work and get it done. When I quit that admin job they made my part of it a full-time position, for two people. And my boss got a promotion.

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
  2. BYOD has nothing to do with it... by Elminster+Aumar · · Score: 1

    People keep losing their identity due to *how* computers have pushed society's evolution. We're all numbers now but not because that's how authorities preferred it. It's done out of necessity. There's simply too many people on earth anymore and the use of computers is always seen as a means to match this. Obviously, this bleeds down into our everyday jobs and because of this, is always taken a step further--especially by those who have no understanding of what some people are expected to do with their machines (i.e. - developers). Point being here is that this "extra work" is nothing new... Unfortunately. It has nothing to do with BYOD and everything to do with seeing people as tools instead of individuals.

    1. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      I don't feel like a number? Look I have a name: cpu6502. Not just here but on facebook, on gmail, and at work (though each name is different). People even call me by that name.

      No actually I feel more like a cow (human "resource"). The company provides a stall for me to hang out with food, water and toilet facilities located nearby. From time-to-time it milks me for product, which it can sell on the open market. As long as the company does not abuse me, I am a happy cow. ;-)

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    2. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

      As long as the company does not abuse me, I am a happy cow. ;-)

      From Robert Plant's Liar's Dance:

      Kneel before the fatted cow
      Let's take a little moo before we go
      We won't be back again

    3. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by vlm · · Score: 1

      People keep losing their identity due to *how* computers have pushed society's evolution. We're all numbers now but not because that's how authorities preferred it.

      We should go back to the good old days on the factory floor. Oh wait we didn't even have numbers then. Whoops. There never really was a golden era "for the masses".

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one cares about your life. You're just another neckbeard off to the slaughter. Now shut your filthy pie hole and get back to work.

    5. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by Elminster+Aumar · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, but do you have anything to propose that could help with the issue being discussed?

    6. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am the new number 666.
      You are number 1960974.
      We want information. Information. Information!

    7. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by Elminster+Aumar · · Score: 1

      If that works for you, fine. What if that doesn't work for everyone else?

    8. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look I have a name: cpu6502. ... People even call me by that name.

      Really? I thought we all called you Commodore64Love after your prior "name" Mr. 1960974.

    9. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by icebike · · Score: 1

      Actually, his offering was on par with you whiny complaint (above).

      Do you really think it was ever any better? Seriously?
      Twelve hour days in dingy factories, or 16 hour days trudging behind a house guiding a plow?
      People have always been tools, willingly, because even an uneducated farm hand understood that they were trading their hours of existence for food and shelter.

      Suggesting that we fail to see people as individuals simply because now, just as in the stone age, there is a necessity to work in order to live, is romantic nonsense.
      Mankind learned about 15 million years ago that banding together and specializing makes less work and greater safety for everyone. That we still band together today to make toilet paper in a paper mill does not make the mill worker less of an individual, known by his first name by friends, foremen, and shift mates alike.

      That there exists desk workers who push your paperwork into a computer so that you get paid does not mean that the authorities desire this system, nor does it mean the factory worker would rather stand in line at the pay-master's window and have his wages handed to him at the end of the week.

      And if said desk worker gets an email saying the payroll run crashed and she can take care of the restart over the phone without leaving the dinner party, or when the factory floor worker gets an email saying their paycheck was deposited automatically in the bank while deciding which bicycle to buy at the bike shop, that IS significant change and it IS an improvement over historical situations. People choose this route voluntarily every single day.

      In short, I didn't see a single truth or useful notion in your post, simply a romantic lament for days gone by, where the grass was never as green as you seem to remember it.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    10. Re:BYOD has nothing to do with it... by Elminster+Aumar · · Score: 1

      Whiny complaint? Perhaps. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. More on point, I would much rather go back to the 80s. Granted, I wasn't very old in those days so I'm sure proportional miseries can be brought to light. It's just that I seem to recall people being more generally able to handle other peoples' opinions better back then. I believe music was also better, too, with the big hair bands, new wave; whatever. Good times.

  3. Disclaimer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "According to...enterprise Wi-Fi access firm iPass...their companies did not require security on smartphones or tablets to access work data."

    If "did not require security" didn't make any sense to you, you're not alone. It looks like they actually meant "did not use our magic tiger-repelling-rock based product". The whole "report" is a slashvertizement.

    1. Re:Disclaimer by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      That quote from TFS gave me pause, as well (in true /. tradition, I have not RTFA'd): how would most employees know if their company "require[d] security on smartphones or tablets to access work data?"

      Where I work, we have a VPN that people can hit with a myriad of devices, and the VPN runs a couple of tests to make sure that you've got adequate security on your device before allowing the connection (no, it doesn't nmap it, and no, I'm not going to describe the process on an Internet forum). The process is more or less transparent and only takes a few seconds; I doubt most people would even notice it. Did they poll the admins to find out what policies are in place, or did they just ask the end users? If the former, then okay, I'll buy it. If the latter, then that assertion is highly suspect.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
  4. "Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Neil_Brown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Two excellent books which made me question why I had my email pushed to me, notifications popping up, looked at work email before I went to bed and so on. Switching email to "pull" (both work and personal, both mobile and computer), not having work email enabled on my phone unless I actually needed it, and minimising distractions ("silent" on my phone means no vibrations either — no distractions), I've found that I get a lot more done in a given period of time (may sound silly, but "Getting Things Done" did a lot for me here, too), and am generally more relaxed.

    I'm a huge fan of being connected, but this experience has made me realise I truly value having connectivity available when I want it, rather than letting things rule me.

    1. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In the future, rich people will be disconnected from the Internet unless they have to be, and only the poor will be connected full-time, because they're so insignificant that anyone can bug them about anything at any time.

    2. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Neil_Brown · · Score: 1

      Interesting. There's got to be a short story in that (if there is not already)...

    3. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Quakeulf · · Score: 0

      I have lived without internet access for 1 and a half years so far and enjoying it as it actually helps my productivity a lot, just like in the early 2000's and late 90's when I didn't have a decent enough internet connection. I've come to the point where I have started developing my own projects and learned a lot of new and useful skills simply by not being on Youtube all day. I suggest more people follow suit.

    4. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by cpu6502 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I noticed that with my boss today. We were chatting and his "push" email updated, so he glanced at it. Then we resumed chatting and his email updated so he glanced at it again. I found it annoying & made our chat last 1.5 times longer than it should have. I check my email just twice a day..... I figure if it's urgent they can pick up the phone and call. Or send an instant message.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    5. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slightly similar is Alfred Bester's "The Stars My Destination." Except instead of the internet, it's teleportation, and disconnecting means walling yourself inside a teleport-proof mansion.

    6. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by JoeMerchant · · Score: 0

      Ummm... and your presence on /. at 1:30 on a Wednesday?

    7. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      living without internet access and posting to /.

      Mind Blown!

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    8. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey moron! The world's a sphere last time I checked!

    9. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by swillden · · Score: 2

      I'm a huge fan of being connected, but this experience has made me realise I truly value having connectivity available when I want it, rather than letting things rule me.

      +1

      I love my smartphone (Galaxy Nexus), tablet (Nexus 7) and highly-portable laptop (MacBook Air), and it's very convenient to have 24/7 access to my desktop at work via VPN, my work e-mail and IM on all devices, etc. I love the flexibility all of that provides. However, I also have my mail client (Gmail) on my phone & tablet configured not to provide any notifications at all for new e-mail in my work account, not even the icon in the notification bar and I keep my work IM account turned off except when I decide to use it to contact someone else. On my laptop, I use Chrome with two different profiles, one for work and one for personal, and I close the windows with the work profile when I'm not working.

      I occasionally do decide to hack a little on my current project at work in the evenings when the family has gone to bed, because I have some idea I want to try out, or I hop on to check the monitors that show the transactions being processed by my recently-deployed-to-production project, or to check the exception-logging tool, and I frequently scan my e-mail priority inbox and my calendar before going to bed. But that's because I choose to do those things, and if I don't happen to want to, I don't. And if anyone tried to tell me that I should do those things, I'd tell them to take a flying leap. But no one has asked, and I don't expect it to happen.

      I like the freedom and flexibility all of the tech gives me, but I'm not going to let it cause work to interfere with what's really important. It allows me to work extra hours when I want to, but imposes no requirements on me to do so -- and I will refuse to accept any such requirements without corresponding compensation.

      Oh, and as for the other part of the article, yes, my devices are all locked down. In order to have my company e-mail on my cell and tablet, I have to install a device policy enforcement tool, which makes sure my devices are appropriately password-protected, encrypted and can be remotely wiped by the company. If I don't comply with policy, or remove the tool, the mail server won't talk to my devices. My laptop, of course, is company-issued, uses full-disk (full-SSD?) encryption and has its own policy enforcement tool.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    10. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      He dictated the post to his personal assistant, who does have Internet access :D

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    11. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by mordred99 · · Score: 1

      There was a company that came into my former company which preached this. They had a training called "How to optimize outlook to get stuff done" or some such. We used to get between 200-300 emails a day, most were FYI stuff.

      * Basically they said, don't check your email but a couple times a day. Typically when you first get in, right after lunch, and right before you leave at night. Allocate a certain amount of time to it and block your calendar (such as the first 30 minutes of the day, last 30 minutes of the day, 30 minutes after lunch) depending on how much email you get in a day.

      * Change your email signature to say something like "Emails will be responded to in a 24 hours period. Anything with more urgency please call or drop by my office." And have your number and office number in your signature.

      * Spend no more than 3 minutes on an email. If you have to, push that out until you start over your next "email time". You can come back to it if you have time left in your xx minute slot in your calendar and need to answer it. You just want to make sure that you get done with all the emails in your inbox before the time is up.

      * Move FYI emails to a "Read Later" folder where you can read them later if you have time.

      * Turn off all notifications except meeting notices. This way you will not get distracted and be tempted to check when you are not in your allocated time.

      There was a bunch more, but at the end of the day, this was all I did. It was a wonder for my productivity, when I was not reading a manual and every 3 mintues got an email and I would check it out based on the preview. The only people that complained were people like my old boss would would send out 30 page documents and expect the team to read it and give detailed analysis in less than 30 minutes before he would run to a meeting about that topic. I told him he had to plan ahead as giving me 30 minutes to read a 30 page document isn't going to get a good response from me.

    12. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Quakeulf · · Score: 0

      I said I have lived, not "living". Besides, I get internet access at work, which is plenty sufficient.

    13. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were Educated Stupid

    14. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Minwee · · Score: 1

      You might also enjoy Ray Bradbury's The Murderer, for similar reasons.

    15. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Neil_Brown · · Score: 1

      Thank you!

    16. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by similar_name · · Score: 1

      Most people prefer methods of communication differently but I'm wondering what's much different than an instant message or email. It's not difficult to have an email client (or at least the notification) running all the time on phones now. Is that the only issue or is it something else about email. Reminds me about a month ago our company had a class on how different age groups prefer different methods. Not surprisingly the youngest people preferred text and social media, middle age preferred email and older people preferred phones.

    17. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      I have no preference for facebook or email or phones..... I just don't want a popup going-off every 5 minutes. I minimize my email and then forget about it. My coworkers know that I usually take half-a-day to respond, and if they need an instant response they should phone or IM. Or just (shock) come visit.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    18. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      depends on your job, alot of mangers pretty much only answer emails.

    19. Re:"Hamlet's BlackBerry" and "In Praise of Slow" by pne · · Score: 1

      I noticed that with my boss today. We were chatting and his "push" email updated, so he glanced at it. Then we resumed chatting and his email updated so he glanced at it again. I found it annoying & made our chat last 1.5 times longer than it should have. I check my email just twice a day..... I figure if it's urgent they can pick up the phone and call. Or send an instant message.

      So you would have preferred if the person had not emailed your boss but rather had called him, interrupting your chat for longer than just a glance?

      I don't know, but it always bothers me if I'm talking to someone face-to-face, the phone rings, and they answer it for a minutes on end as if the person right next to them is completely unimportant. There's a lot to be said for asynchronous communication sometimes.

      --
      Esli epei etot cumprenan, shris soa Sfaha.
  5. LOL by vlm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But 19% of mobile workers said their companies did not require security on smartphones or tablets to access work data.

    Somehow I don't think 19% of mobile workers can tell the difference between http and https access to their corporate webmail, much less the intricacies of imap on port 143 vs imaps on port 993

    Asking them is about as wise as asking the average man on the street if his blood is RH positive or RH negative and then basing your blood bank inventory plan on their random choices. I'm guessing the average moron would assume RH is a disease so you'd skew negative, but the actual population is mostly positive (exact value depending on where you live)

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:LOL by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Why was device security mentioned in the summary at all? It's not in the article that this submission is ostensibly about. Which of the two issues was the submitter hoping to discuss?

      FWIW while my cell phone is able to connect to my work email, it only checks for new mail manually. I still check it once during evenings and once or twice on weekends, but I've gotten much better about ignoring anything that's not truly urgent until the next workday. Just because a particular faculty member didn't think about setting up a class webpage until 10pm the evening before doesn't make it an emergency for me; but if the server's down I'd better deal with it.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:LOL by teevoh · · Score: 1

      Requiring security is probably meant "does your device need a passcode to unlock after X minutes." Or you must use a 6 character alphanumeric code not the standard 4 digits. Or maybe even you must tell it to destruct after Y failed attempts.

  6. "Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by gallondr00nk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The report also said that 92% of mobile workers 'enjoy their job flexibility' and are 'content' with working longer hours

    Well done, what a great way to undermine your own wage and working conditions.

    1. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2

      If they 'enjoy' and are 'content', then it's hard to say they've 'undermined' themselves. They have perhaps undermined 'you' and your conditions, but that's called competition.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    2. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? I'm in that 92%. I very much 'enjoy my job flexibility' and am very 'content with working longer hours.'

      But then again I'm a porn actor.

    3. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by atlasdropperofworlds · · Score: 1

      Since they are now working 20 extra hours per week, their total weekly working time has gone up to 21 hours thanks to BYOD. Yay for progress.

    4. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by vlm · · Score: 2

      The report also said that 92% of mobile workers 'enjoy their job flexibility' and are 'content' with working longer hours

      Well done, what a great way to undermine your own wage and working conditions.

      It goes both ways. "Boss says I'm working 24x7 now... I'm redefining working as I occasionally glance at and ignore my email while eating, surfing the net, listening to music, playing games, drinking, talking about sports, endless smoke breaks, flirting ... oh wait were you talking about while at work or while at home? You mean there's supposed to be a difference?" It can be a real productivity killer. I know at a previous employer a punishing pager schedule (basically working part time 2nd and 3rd shift every month or so while also working full time 1st shift) meant that we gave ourselves comp time during the day by Fing off about two to four times as much as the time we spent outside of work in the recent past. So if I had to work from 2am to 5am because it was my on call week, well lets just say I basically did nothing at work but F around from 8am until about 2pm or so.

      In the long run I don't think you make money by smearing the working hours across 24 hours all spread spectrum like, but the integrated actual number of hours actually worked drops from 8+ to maybe less than 5 or so hours per workday.

      There are other interesting issues, like I have talked to customers while drunk, not because I drink at work, but because I drink at home and its not like my 24x7 on call job forbids me from drinking for the duration of my employment. So drunken / sleepy / distracted / having sex during "work" simply happens. Given that I'll bet you're glad I do programming / sysadmin stuff and not airline pilot / truck driver.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    5. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      My job flexibility means that when the boss says "update that server" I can do it from home, during off hours, when nobody at work cares that they can't get email or whatever. That means less explanations to the other bosses, fewer complaints, and I can focus more on my other duties while actually in the office.

      A morale boost like that could come from a raise, or from me logging in from via my cell phone, while watching TV with a drink in hand. I'm okay with the latter.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    6. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

      Depends on what they're doing AT work. Many people listen to music or talk radio or audiobooks... same stuff they'd be doing if they were at home. So no real difference in home vs. work.

      Also there was a time, for about 10,000 years, when work and home were integrated because it was the same place (your farm or your shop). That experience shaped our brains' wiring. It is only recently that the two became separated.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    7. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Good luck sucker. You'll wake up and realize what those 'damn communists' were complaining about 100 years ago, once you have a family, or when you realize the 'Sword of +5' doesn't slay mortgages.

    8. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You poor, dumb, sheltered bastard.

    9. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by gallondr00nk · · Score: 2

      If they 'enjoy' and are 'content', then it's hard to say they've 'undermined' themselves. They have perhaps undermined 'you' and your conditions, but that's called competition.

      Hard to say they've undermined themselves? How about if they were paid, lets say, $10/hour. That contentment of which you speak is costing them $200 per week net, assuming 20 hours a week. Quite a sacrifice, wouldn't you say?

      Secondly, you're damn right it undermines me. It undermines you as well. Working extra hours a week unpaid isn't competition, its a race to the bottom. How precisely does one compete with someone who works for free?.

    10. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      If "flexibility" means work a normal business week (5x8), plus an unspecified number of additional hours after CoB for free, then yes, from an objective point of view, they've undermined themselves because they are no longer earning their advertised salary, even if they get to use their shiny new iToy to get said work done.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    11. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by element-o.p. · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So long as that flexibility also means that I get to take the next day (or at least, an equal number of hours the next day) off to enjoy the free time I spent updating the server the night before, I'm okay with that. However, I once had an employer tell me that "five minutes early is right on time" when I arrived at eight thirty instead of eight a.m. after staying at work until 2:00 a.m. the night before to fix a corrupted database.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    12. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      I don't mind doing work out of hours - that goes with working in IT. I do object to being paid for it - either in time off or in financial recompense. The UK bosses I've worked for have always understood that this is how it was. The American bosses I've worked for, less so. Suffice to say, I don't work for American bosses unless I absolutely have to. Thankfully they are few and far between.

    13. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      I do object to being paid for it...

      I'm going to assume a missing negative in there somewhere...

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    14. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      from an objective point of view

      If were talking about that, then yes I agree. We're talking about how they FEEL about their situation, which is far from objective.

      If they get to be home when the kids come home from school, how much is that worth? An extra hour a day? It's all dependent on how *you* value your time and the ways you can spend it - which again is far from objective.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    15. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      Says AC from Mom's basement...

      Seriously, if you have kids, sometimes making more money isn't worth the sacrifices of never seeing them during the week because you had to work and rush hour took 3 hours to get home.

      If *THEY* are happy with the situation of trading extra hours for flexibility, they've made what they consider to be a fair compromise...and as such haven't undermined themselves at all.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    16. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      Working extra hours a week unpaid isn't competition, its a race to the bottom.

      Capitalism is a race to the bottom. It's about providing a product or service for least possible cost. By definition that's a race to the bottom.

      How precisely does one compete with someone who works for free?

      If I'm willing to provide the same service as you at half the cost, that's my right and is plain old competition.

      This is entirely different than 'illegal dumping' and such stuff where products are sold below cost. That isn't the case here. The people are choosing to work extra hours in order have more flexibility in their job. If you can't compete with that, you can't compete period.

      If someone chooses to forgo health insurance and thus can be paid less than someone who wants health insurance...is that 'unfair' competition? If I have coverage from my spouse's company, I don't need that benefit from my company and can work for less money. How is this case any different?

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    17. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Samalie · · Score: 1

      You're correct in that capitalism is a race to the bottom. I don't deny that. You are also corrent in that if you provide a service cheaper than I, then you're going to get the gig and I'm SOL.

      But lets also take this to the extreme. You're an entry-level IT geek getting say $12/hr. You are formally paid for 40 hours work, but you're effectively working 80 hours (and, the key in this whole discussion....UNPAID).

      Your net effective pay is $6/hr, NOT $12/hr. NOW....does that violate your state minimum wage laws?

      Capitalism in its purest form IS a race to the bottom...but you advocate a wild-west where eventually effort put in will have a worth to the corporation of $0. SOMEBODY has to stand up and protect the workforce from the corporation. PEOPLE are not a race to the bottom, and if you think that, then I honestly feel sorry for you.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    18. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Samalie · · Score: 1

      What's funny in this is we're both arguing the value of our time. But somehow, and I don't know where, the boat left & you aren't on the boat.

      My time is the most valuable commonity I posess. I demand a high value for my time, and my work/life experience allows me to command a high value for my time.

      I am NEVER willing to give away my time for free to anyone but my family. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen - my employer is not immune in any way to this screw-the-worker attitude of today. But, quite honestly, I've managed to draw a line in the sand & I simply refuse to respond to anything non-emergency outside of my normal working hours. And I'm sure eventually I'll be replaced by someone that will, and assuming that I have nothing in my work record to justify the turfing it will be one hell of a wrongful termination suit when that happens.

      I don't necessarily care so much about what my salary is...and I've traded salary for additional vacation time & other benefits in the past. But I care 100% about my time...and 5pm to 8:30am is MY FUCKING TIME. I'm not looking to make more money...I WANT MY GODDAMN TIME. Those 20 hours a week (from TFA) of unpaid time...that's time I could spend with my kids, helping with homework, taking some classes to improve myself....quite frankly, ANYTHING but giving it away to some corporate bastard that only gives a shit about sqeezing every last drop of life from me before tossing me in the dumpster and replacing me with another moron willing to have the life squeezed from him.

      Honestly....if you don't value your time enough that you're willing to give it away for nothing to people that don't give a fuck about you or your welfare...then you're an idiot & deserve to have the life sucked out of you. All we are....all we have to give...are the 24 hours in a day we have for whatever duration of life we happen to get.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    19. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      Point taken, on both counts.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    20. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      5pm to 8:30am is MY FUCKING TIME

      Key point - YOUR time is not necessarily THEIR time. The point is these people decided that 3pm to 5pm is THEIR FUCKING TIME and arranged to be given an iPod so they could be at home when the kids come home (just making up an example here) and be able to do extra work to make up for the fact that they aren't in the office during the normal business hours.

      Perhaps we are arguing the same side but I don't see that you're comprehending that someone might have a different set of values than you do and would happily negotiate a different more flexible, but more hours, arrangement to make that workable.

      I'm sure eventually I'll be replaced by someone that will, and assuming that I have nothing in my work record to justify the turfing it will be one hell of a wrongful termination suit when that happens.

      You'll get laughed out of court. If they find someone else willing to do more for the same amount of pay...that's called competition.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    21. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      Hourly pay is besides the point, this is only for salaried people, since by definition hourly people are paid 'by the hour' and working more hours means more pay.

      You aren't paid for 40 hours a week, you're paid a salary to get the job done regardless of how long it takes. Obviously there are workplace laws to prevent wholesale abuse and an employer can't make you work a certain amount over 'normal' hours continually.

      This again is besides the point here, we're talking about people who 'willingly' are choosing a different set of compensation variables than you did. Theirs involves trading flexibility for slightly longer hours.

      This is routine in tele-work scenarios. People are expected to work more hours for being able to work at home. You as the employee get both the reduction in travel time to and from work AND don't pay the expense for that travel that you normally would. What does the employer get out of that? Employees that aren't as easily managed or communicated with or worked with, etc. The 'remote' changes the situation, so the employer is within reason asking for a little bit more from the employee to allow them the flexibility to work from home.

      This is no different at all.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    22. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5pm to 8:30am is MY FUCKING TIME

      That sounds exhausting.

    23. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by nischal360 · · Score: 1

      I agree

    24. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Samalie · · Score: 1

      OK...let me try another angle...

      I think we can agree that the "norm" is an 8-hour workday, 5 days a week, for FT employment. Yes, salaried means you are paid to "get the job done" not "put in the hours" - but lets be fair here too....depending on juristiction, most salaried employees are not legally considered overtime exempt (I know legally, I am not). So again, in theory, >40/week means time and a half for overtime.

      So, lets take that 40 hour per week "norm". Now hey...I like the idea of being home when the kids get home from school as much as the next parent, so I'll run with that. Let us examine what is likely an "average" day for the person that does a standard 8:30-5 type post. Obviously, the commute time is the potential massive variable, but hey...I'll do this as my own life:

      6am - wake up, shit/shower/shave
      6:15-7:45 - Breakfast, help kids get their shit organized, etc
      7:45 - leave for work. Drop off kids at school on the way
      8:25 - arrive at work. Work all day (8 hour workday)
      5:00 - leave work, drive home
      5:45 - arrive home, start prepping supper
      6:15 - supper
      6:45 - take kid to soccer (or whatever activities happen in your household with the kids)
      8:00 - Homework
      9:00 - start putting youngest to bed
      9:30 - hey look, I actually have 5 minutes to myself! WOOHOO! Relax, work on MY homework, watch some TV, etc
      10:30 - fuck wife
      11:00 - go to bed
      11:00-6am - sleep

      Now....lets take that same schedule, but now I'm going to be home at 3 instead of 5. Doing this will also cost me a minimum of 1 extra hour on an average day, for the "flexibility"...

      6am - wake up, shit/shower/shave
      6:15-7:45 - Breakfast, help kids get their shit organized, etc
      7:45 - leave for work. Drop off kids at school on the way
      8:25 - arrive at work. Work all day (6 hour workday)
      3:00 - leave work, drive home
      3:45 - arrive home, kids come home, homework
      4:45 - Make up hour of work (now 7 hours on the workday)
      5:45 - start prepping supper
      6:15 - supper
      6:45 - take kid to soccer (or whatever activities happen in your household with the kids)
      8:00 - Put in an hour's work (Now at 8 hours total worked)
      9:00 - start putting youngest to bed
      9:30 - Make up more time at work...the additional hour I still owe (9 hour workday)
      10:30 - Fuck wife
      11-6am - sleep

      So in that schedule I've gained ~ 2 hours of being in the same physical building as my kids, but I've lost all the free time I have to put into myself, whether much-needed relaxation, or self-improvement. Also, to gain those 2 hours in the physical building costs me 3 hours of that time effectively away from my kids doing work anyway! I've also only paid a 1 hour penalty for this flexability - TFA is suggesting a mind-boggling 2 1/2 hours daily, 7 days a week, is the price of that flexibility. So tell me...find me the extra hour and a half in the schedule above that I haven't even accounted for.

      Now...would I give up SALARY to leave work at 3pm daily? Possibly. But time is already far too prescious a commonity to even consider giving up. You can't magically make more hours in the day...once that time is used, it is gone forever.

      THAT is why I call people that are willing to trade time for flexability morons.

      Oh, and your comment on being laughed out of court? Thank god I live in the magical land known as Canada, where there are actual laws that protect workers from being terminated without cause. God I feel for the people who live in at-will employment states.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    25. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      To reiterate: This doesn't work for YOU, I get that, but you're claiming it doesn't work for ANYONE, which you simply can't do and be credible.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    26. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Samalie · · Score: 1

      Hourly pay is besides the point, this is only for salaried people, since by definition hourly people are paid 'by the hour' and working more hours means more pay.

      Except where management refuses to pay overtime. Many have mentioned in the comments here...."Work >40 hours, put in for 40 hours". Again, we are talking about people putting in extra UNAPID time here.

      This is routine in tele-work scenarios. [snip] What does the employer get out of that? Employees that aren't as easily managed or communicated with or worked with, etc. The 'remote' changes the situation, so the employer is within reason asking for a little bit more from the employee to allow them the flexibility to work from home.

      What does the employer get?? Really??? Lets see what I can come up with, off the top of my head...
      1. The employer gets one less workstation they have to buy (since EVERY telecommuter I know is all BYOD).
      2. One less workstation that they need to power.
      3. One less body they need to cool the building space from (Air conditioning).
      4. A reputation for being an employer that values work-life balance.
      5. Employees that routinely are MORE productive in the same timeframe than their at-the-desk coworkers (I'm too lazy to google studies, but I've read them).
      6. Claims of being a greener company since commute hours are reduced.
      7. Ability to have more employees in less physical space (which carries per sqft leasing savings).
      8. Not providing coffee/tea/whatever the employer gives for beverages to staff.
      9. If the employer has things like on-site daycare or on-site cafeterias/etc (obviously in BIG companies), then less strain on those resources and lower costs.
      10. Happier and less stressed employees.

      So yeah....the employer gets nothing out of a telecommuter....obviously we should trade many many hours of our lives for the ability.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    27. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Samalie · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying it doesn't work for anyone. I'm saying that anyone willing to trade their TIME in a greater than 1:1 ratio is a fucking moron. ANY gains you might theoretically get are offet entirely by the "extra" you get forced into.

      Its stupid. You are intentionally valuing yourself lower than what the MARKET deems you are worth, in terms of compensation per hour worked. You are intentionally giving away hours you could have used on things for yourself FOR FREE to your employer for some illusion of flexibility.

      Honestly, if you're willing to do this, then good for fucking you. I actually have some self respect.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    28. Re:"Flexibility" like that can go to hell. by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      yes

  7. I work +20 to makeup time by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

    The time I wasted on my Bring Your Own Device's applications instead of working. 12 hours a day are my new norm (and leave the weekends for myself).

    --
    My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    1. Re:I work +20 to makeup time by djchristensen · · Score: 1

      If I had mod points I would mod this up. This is the exact point I made the last time this subject was discussed on /.. I have not RTFA, but I have to wonder if they just asked people how much time they spent working when outside of normal working hours, or if they also took into account the amount of time they spent not working during normal working hours. I wonder if, on average, number of hours spent working hasn't really changed.

      That said, I do what a previous poster suggested, which is to pull work email when I want to. I don't even own a smartphone, and I have to make a conscious effort to check email on my iPod. I put in a small number of hours in the evening because that kind of schedule suits me. So I fall into that "enjoy their job flexibility" group without giving up anything to my employer.

    2. Re:I work +20 to makeup time by Bigby · · Score: 1

      I'm curious how much time was saved because the individual are actually able to use computers that work.

      I am sick of getting into an office where I am a "software developer" with a computer worse than those who use a web browser and Microsoft Office. Do they realize that an IDE and application server, let alone "the other stuff" take far more resources and I could work, not exaggerating, 100% more efficiently. When I have to wait 1 minute for something that should take 5 seconds, then I wind up getting distracted and visiting Slashdot.

    3. Re:I work +20 to makeup time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dang, that sucks having an old and slow box like that. I have an HP Z820 workstation with two 6 core processors with hyperthreading (so it looks like 24 CPUs in task manager), 64 GB of RAM and a huge amount of disk. And I only use a web browser and MS Office. OK, so I jest. That is the machine I have, but I have a position where I get to do several things. I design our notebook / desktop images (so a lot of VMware Workstation usage) and I also develop code. Your work really should get you a machine that allows you to be productive.

    4. Re:I work +20 to makeup time by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      That said, I do what a previous poster suggested, which is to pull work email when I want to. I don't even own a smartphone

      I own a smartphone, but I only set up my personal e-mail on it. If something is broken after hours, we have a department tasked with monitoring our network after hours who knows how to reach me.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
  8. Its not the device.. by SuperCharlie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its the blurring of lines of what is work time and what is private time due to the always connected world we have become addicted to. When your "master" can summon you 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, no matter where you are.. guess what.. they will.

    1. Re:Its not the device.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition to this I think it's also related to the personality of the worker. I have this flexibility and I typically put in 45 hour weeks, some of it at home. The flexibility part comes in where if I need to leave the office for something, I can make up the time over mobile at home. Did I put in more time because of the mobile device? Most of the time no - it's time I would have been at the office anyway.

      But I do know people who just can't stay away from the mobile device, and it's not necessarily because the corporate overlords are summoning - it's their addiction.

    2. Re:Its not the device.. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's a free country, choose your master wisely.

    3. Re:Its not the device.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is why I make my boss pay for it. You want me to have a cell phone, then you get to pay for it. Really cuts down on the number of calls you get when your boss knows that he will have to pay for it.

    4. Re:Its not the device.. by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      It's a free country, choose your master wisely.

      Mind = blown

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re:Its not the device.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until my "Master" starts paying me 24x7 he can go pound sand. I don't answer calls from my workplace when I'm not there.

    6. Re:Its not the device.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're making up for that by working harder as an employee so he'll keep paying that cost.

  9. I bring my own device to work daily. by BigSes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Its called my brain, and trust me, worrying about that bullshit when I leave the building should count as "additional hours".

  10. Removing Barriers makes people productive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Gee Wiz. When IT stops putting up obsticals, people can actually get work accomplished. Who'd of thunk it.

    1. Re:Removing Barriers makes people productive. by Fned · · Score: 2

      Gee Wiz. When IT stops putting up obsticals, people can actually get work accomplished. Who'd of thunk it.

      Aw, whoseums confuses longer hourses with more productivities? You do! Yes you do! Wuzzle wuzzle wuzzle.

      You're so adorable, with your wee little toes and your backwards ideas about working productivity. I could just eat you up!

  11. Maybe they do private work by gshegosh · · Score: 2

    On their private devices during employer paid time.

  12. Wow.. lots of dumb.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but I work less with a BYOD requirement. IF you are too cheap to buy me an iPad you require, then I am going to screw off using that ipad during work hours.

    Also Work more at home? I dont even answer the bosses phone calls in the parking lot 3 minutes after I leave.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Wow.. lots of dumb.... by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Also Work more at home? I dont even answer the bosses phone calls in the parking lot 3 minutes after I leave.

      You wait until you leave? ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Wow.. lots of dumb.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My solution to all phone calls is voicemail. If it's truly important they'll leave a message.*

      *thankfully my voicemail is full.

    3. Re:Wow.. lots of dumb.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm weak that way. I have to walk past his office on the way out, and it's rude to walk by fast with my fingers in my ears yelling , "LALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU! LALALALA!"

      Although I have been tempted to do so lately....

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  13. We don't do BYOD by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    I don't do BYOD in my business. I in fact encourage my employees NOT to work on their own time. Having adequate time with work out of focus makes them happier and more productive when they are at work.

    1. Re:We don't do BYOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:We don't do BYOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like a SOCIALIST!

      What kind of capitalist wouldn't want his employees to pay for their own tools and do huge amounts of unpaid overtime? If they are too tired you should fire them and hire some workers who aren't so lazy! They should be happy they have jobs at all!

    3. Re:We don't do BYOD by Samalie · · Score: 1

      Can I work for you? Seriously?

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    4. Re:We don't do BYOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen. Where do I apply?

  14. Heh by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

    But 19% of mobile workers said their companies did not require security on smartphones or tablets to access work data."

    Of course not, that would eat in to IT's youtube time!

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  15. Personal things at work. by bjwest · · Score: 2

    How much time does the average worker spend on personal things while at work? Checking personal email, personal phone calls, surfing the web and playing games during non-break time? They may not consume 20 hours of work time doing these things, but they are being done.

    Maybe you won't have to bring your work home with you if you do your work while at work.

    --

    --- Keep the choice with the user..
    1. Re:Personal things at work. by AntEater · · Score: 1

      They may not consume 20 hours of work time doing these things,...

      I see you underestimate my powers.

      --
      Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
  16. What did you expect to happen? by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    Users never seem to be able to see past their noses when wanting to use personal gadgetry for work.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    1. Re:What did you expect to happen? by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      That's interesting. People are willing to work more it they don't have to interact with IT?

      BOFH would be proud.

  17. Your actions harm me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When it becomes trendy to work long hours, employers start to require it. Then, I have to work those same long hours, because there are no jobs where a proper work/life balance is respected.

    Thanks a lot, you damn busybodies!

    1. Re:Your actions harm me by Samalie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When it becomes trendy to work long hours, employers start to require it. Then, I have to work those same long hours, because there are no jobs where a proper work/life balance is respected.

      Thanks a lot, you damn busybodies!

      Actually this. 1000 times this.

      We had an individual in my office. For the sake of this story, we will refer to him as "Fuckwit".

      Now, Fuckwit came in to work 7 days a week, and roughly 12-14 hours per day. He was paid a standard 40-hour-workweek salary, and effectively then volunteered 60 hours more a week.

      This became the standard against which the rest of the staff are measured. Fuckwit is doing it, why the fuck can't you? Fuckwit needs you while you are on vacation....fuck your vacation, do what Fuckwit wants of you. Never mind Fuckwit is a single male with no girlfirned, no kids, no social life, whatever. Fuckwit has set the bar.

      Today, Fuckwit is on a 2 year sabbattical because (from what I've heard) he hit the wall and burnt out to shit. But guess what? He set the fucking bar, which we still to this day fail to measure up to. Management could care less that it destroyed Fuckwit, requiring a massive sabbattical...they got 3 1/2 years of 100 hour workweeks out of him before that happened.

      Now, multiply Fuckwit across America. Millions of Fuckwits who are "lucky to have a job at all" working double the hours they are contracted (and often paid) to do. So suddenly, we have millions of Fuckwits doing the effective job of 2 people....where the company SHOULD be hiring 2 people, but why the fuck would they when there is Fuckwit who will do it anyway.

      And then we wonder why unemployment is shot to shit right now. Of course there are hardly any fucking jobs being created, because they keep making US do the work for a job that SHOULD be created.

      In other words, fuck every last one of you Fuckwits out there. YOU are fucking us all. Personally, I hope the stress eats you up inside till you have a mental breakdown or a fucking heart attack. THen these companies might actually have to, you know, hire the appropriate number of staff instead of fucking us all.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    2. Re:Your actions harm me by berashith · · Score: 1

      this would suck.

      I am currently in an environment where long hours and constant availability are required, but it is great. I dont have to sit a round the office with nothing to do. I come in around 10 to 10:30 most days which allows me to do marathon training runs in the morning. I have 2 days with 9 am meetings, and I work those into my life. If there is nothing going on in the afternoon then I can leave before 5. I may need to make production changes around 8 or 10 at night, but those are not so bad as the kids have gone to bed already, and I actually got to see them and eat dinner with them. I dont even have to check email and stay in constant contact, as they took a page from the 80s and gave me a pager for required contact situations ... i didnt want MY phone that I pay for hooked into their security, so we compromised.

      Not every place is like this, but the few nights of odd hours actually fit into a balanced life as I dont have to just attend the office for the appearance of being available on everyone else's hours. My responsibilities are a bit different, and management has recognized that my value can be better used if spread out, and has gotten greater time coverage of my skills at a good trade off. I have had plenty of jobs where I wasnt required to be available as much where somehow the normal day prevented me from having time for my own interests.

    3. Re:Your actions harm me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You screwed me over in high school.. it's my turn now..

    4. Re:Your actions harm me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuckwit, this in my hand is the bar you set so high. See it rushing to crush your cranium?

    5. Re:Your actions harm me by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1
      "Now, multiply Fuckwit across America. Millions of Fuckwits who are "lucky to have a job at all" "

      We already have this. It's called Slashdot!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    6. Re:Your actions harm me by CanHasDIY · · Score: 0

      Well said, nothing to add.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    7. Re:Your actions harm me by netwarerip · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Completely agree with this. Problem is, management typically looks at Fuckwit no differently then they look at a printer. Oh, burnt out the fuser? No problem, just go get a new one. Lather, rinse, repeat as necessary.

      BYOD should be amended to mean 'Bend Y'ass Over, Dude'.

    8. Re:Your actions harm me by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      I was once asked by my boss to come in on the weekend, which turned out not to be an emergency, just routine work that could have waited. I double checked my contract, and found I could be paid overtime. So, come Monday I submitted my claim for overtime. The boss never paid me, but I also never got called on the weekend to do routine work. Worth it, consider the hours others were being expected to do

    9. Re:Your actions harm me by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      Have you ever been unemployed before? Have you lost your wife over it? Have you had to move back in with your parents in your 30s because 12/hr is all employers now think you are worth in this new economy disregarding your previous salary? Have you ever been forced to work 70 hours a week with 2 jobs so you can pay off your student loans and not starve yourself or family with 2 crappy jobs?

      That realty is how what 40 to 50% of Americans live. Underemployment and unemployment is about 20% if you use the U3 statistics before CLinton took office!

      Sorry to burst your bubble but in this economy anyone who lived like that such as myself is thrilled to be working again and will be happy to do it if you do not feel you are good enough. I made a decent living before the economy crashed and lost my whole damn life and years trying to get it back. There are millions like me and when the economy improves then yes I will tell your boss to shove it. But you can not expect people who feel 50k a year for merely 60 hours a week of work is not paradise when you work 80 hours a week for 23k a year. H1B1 visa holders will gladly work these hours too.

      I am not saying I agree with this but it is life and what I agreed to work for when I signed up for my consulting gig. I get paid by the hour so working a million hours for 2 years until I can prove myself will be the norm. It is time to re-adjust and accept that in this economy this will be the norm. When the economy and only if it improves will you be in a position to tell me and your boss to fuck ourselves.

    10. Re:Your actions harm me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Have you ever been unemployed before?"

      Currently.

      "Have you lost your wife over it? Have you had to move back in with your parents in your 30s "

      I'm on the edge of this becoming reality. I don't think there is anything I can do to reverse the trend at this point. It has been hard to say the least. And I don't see how it won't get worse before it gets better.

      I hope you've found better ways to cope than I have. ...posting anonymously because of embarrassment.

    11. Re:Your actions harm me by Samalie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I get paid by the hour

      Then sorry, but you're not even remotely what I described.

      Whether 12/hour or 50/hour, you are being paid for every hour you work. I...and "Fuckwit" from my story...are not.

      Life sucks. This economy licks ass. No, I haven't gone through the hell youve described, and (knock on wood) I hope I don't ever have to. I sincerely wish that you hadn't either.

      But back to the original point....if you are working 80 hours on a salary-only position (or have an employer that refuses to pay OT even if legally required to), then you are a fuckwit, and you are directly contributing to this economy continuing to suck. I mean fuck, honestly, do you understand why the economy continues to suck 3 years after the economy tanking? I'll give you a hint....its the ~8% (documented) unemployment, with a true rate likely somewhere between 15-20%.

      If you have 15-20% of your able and willing workforce not making anything...and then not spending anything...which means that corporate revenues are down...which means more bastard CEO's preserving their personal/shareholder bottom line over that of the whole...which means more layoffs to satisfy thier personal incomes...which means a higher unemployment...which means more people not making anything...and the circle goes on and on and on.

      The bastards and fuckwits and losers out there that are so thankful to be working that they're doing ANY unpaid overtime is directly contributing to this cycle. Government regulations (well, to be more percise, the lack of regulations & this giant conserviative push to destroy the unions) is only making it easier for corporations to get away with this shit. We're not only fucking ourselves right now, but we're fucking our kids...our grandkids...to this level of corporate slavery.

      This ISN'T the norm. This shouldn't be the norm. But as long as there are these losers willing to effectively do 2 people's work, with 2 people's hours, for 1 person's salary, then yes, you're right, we're all fucked and this WILL be the established norm...not just for when the economy sucks, but for all fucking time. Freedom, power...that which is freely given away will never be returned.

      Don't give yourself away people. And seriously...if you do....don't bitch at me when you drop of a massive heart attack & lose everything because you have to spend a month in the hospital & your boss replaces you with another moron willing to drive himself to an early grave. You dug your grave....fucking lie in it slave. I have no sympathy.

      Honestly, one of the only ways I can see to fix this is unionization...and I fucking hate unions. But unless we are all willing to stand together & demand this gets fixed (and if they don't fix it, fuck em. Good luck meeting shareholder expectations if you have no workforce). But that would mean that people would actually have to think outside themselves as one individual....all the "me me me look at me my situation is different I'm special I have to do this blah blah fucking blah" has to go away....and we all know THAT will never fucking happen.

      Honestly...I feel for my kids. My work life sucks, but isn't downright festering shit yet. Their generation? We're laying the foundation for them to be nothing but slaves to corporate interests. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted by the greed.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    12. Re:Your actions harm me by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      The way you describe it your "long hours and constant availability" job has rather short flexible hours and the constant availability is never abused.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    13. Re:Your actions harm me by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      I've been thru all this and more. Last time things tanked this hard, I was a young dude fresh out of school. No life, so I worked insane hours. Thinking, it will get me a good reputation, etc. And trickle-down will happen... 15 years later, management was still wanting me to work like that , even tho my health was gone. The work orders were booming, economy was great, and the only thing that trickled down was the piss.

      I'm no Republican any more. Nor am I so idealistic (and stupid) anymore. Its not my job to make somebody else rich (they were billing me out at a 100x ratio).

      Fuck em.
      .

      --
      C|N>K
    14. Re:Your actions harm me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unions won't fix everything... I'm in one and still doing the aforementioned double-duty. That's local government I guess.

    15. Re:Your actions harm me by Tesen · · Score: 1

      Hey, I am one of those fuckwits! Okay was, I just put my notice in. Yeah I often worked long hours, honing my skillset and well the rest of my team disappeared. Now I am doing the job of three people, I am leaving for a straight 40 hour a week developer job where OT is paid at time and a half (and the people I have talked to at the new job said 40 hours is the norm with sometimes maybe needing to work 41 - 42 hours a week but that is seldom). Guess what? The two others on my team are not up to snuff and I had been telling them for a year now we went from 5 developers down to 4 then all of the sudden I was solo then we hired 2 more ppl who were not at intermediate level let alone Senior like me due to the 'cost' of local talent and we need to get more people!

      Now? They have three consultants coming in to back fill my position (next week is my last week) - at what cost? More than they fucking are paying me and I told my director, dude you know why I am leaving? To get my fucking life back! I have a wife and a child who I do not get to see as much as I want. See you put all your eggs in one basket even though I was telling you we needed more people and now guess what? You're paying extra for consultants!

      I am one of these dudes that just has to get the job done and guess what? I was at burn out level, I took 2 weeks earlier this year and came back relaxed which lasted a day at most before insta-stress back. Sometimes we get hung up on getting the job done and do not realize we're getting fucked until we get to the point of snapping.The issue is, we are told to work hard as children - work hard and the rewards will come to you. Uhhuh, not anymore! Not even certain it ever was - but it is an easy thing to get hung in, especially if you like what you are doing and it is very easy for companies to manipulate you in to doing it through minor rewards etc.

      Tes

    16. Re:Your actions harm me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      During a period of budget cuts and layoffs a few years ago, I actually had a Qualcomm QCT team manager tell me, "It's okay to work more than 40 hours but only bill 40 hours because others are losing jobs".

      So I learned the real meaning of what "everyone needs to keep to 40 hours" actually meant when a department head said for everyone to keep to 40 hours.

      My position was an hourly agency contractor position at the time.

      Also Dice.com just ran a joke of an article saying tech companies want employees to have a work/life balance, they really do. Now look at the job boards and see how many jobs want flexibility to work any shift, or want on-call standby, or want an exorbitant amount of skills for a pathetic $10 to $15 per hour.

  18. BYOD by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    They should just be honest and call it MARFYOB.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  19. Question for fans of BYOD by Compaqt · · Score: 1

    How do you propose to keep company data private?

    If you have a work-issued machine, the lines are clear: Work stuff is on the work phone/laptop/whatever, and it's password protected. Home stuff is on your device.

    If it's BYOD, and Junior wants to play games on you iPhone, you just handed him a device that has your work stuff on it. If it's your own device, it's much more likely to be less protected and touched by more hands than a work device.

    All those stories on the /. frontpage about credit card numbers stolen? They start with little leaks, and then the attacker wiggles his way in.

    BYOD is a disaster.

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    1. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you propose to keep company data private?

      If you have a work-issued machine, the lines are clear: Work stuff is on the work phone/laptop/whatever, and it's password protected. Home stuff is on your device.

      Well, with the blackberry enterprise server, RIM makes it easy. You can have a division between "work" and "personal" on the device. RIM calls it blackberry balance. Only the "work" side is managed & controlled by the office. Only work-approved apps can access work data. Wiping the device (say the employee is fired) only wipes the work data. You have have a separate password for "work" so that you can give Junior your device to play with without compromising "work". Playbook does this too.

      Of course, no one seems to be buying blackberry. Sad, since RIM has a number of smart people who have thought long & hard about mobile device security and resolved just about every issue.

    2. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Many people don't need to carry around things like credit card numbers. Actually, why would ANYONE need to carry around credit card numbers? That sounds like something that should always remain on the server, locked in a closet somewhere in the company's building.

      I don't work in industry but frequent glances over the stuff the business people are always pecking away at on their notebooks and Blackberries seems to indicate that most of it is boring busywork.

    3. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      People aren't necessarily carrying around customer cc numbers on their phones.

      Rather, when you blur the lines of work and home, you make it easier for attackers to get in an in to the corporate network, where they they proceed to grab what they want to.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    4. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      Many people don't need to carry around things like credit card numbers. Actually, why would ANYONE need to carry around credit card numbers? That sounds like something that should always remain on the server, locked in a closet somewhere in the company's building.

      I don't work in industry but frequent glances over the stuff the business people are always pecking away at on their notebooks and Blackberries seems to indicate that most of it is boring busywork.

      It would appear the GP has committed the Slashdot mortal sin of illustrating a point with an example . . .

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    5. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      That sounds like poor security to start with. If the device is leaving the building (or COULD leave the building) the network shouldn't trust it with important things, especially not without a separate piece of information, like an RSA key fob value.

      It doesn't matter whether it's a company laptop, somebody's personal phone or home computer, if it's not physically secured it shouldn't be trusted.

    6. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You can feel free to replace "credit card numbers" with whatever piece of sensitive information you like. If the device can leave the building it shouldn't have sensitive information on it, and it shouldn't have access to sensitive information, at least not without a separate form of authentication. What difference does it make who owns it?

    7. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, then what about email? Do you have any idea how much confidential information is really in Corporate email? Hell, some hacker just getting a hold of the corporate phone book is an awesome boon because now they know just who too call or email with their social engineering attacks. How are you protecting your companies email on your BYOD device? And by that I mean how are you preventing people from looking over your shoulder to read it while you are in line for lunch, or grabbing your phone when you forget it somewhere? Or preventing your kid from accidentally deleting those messages about what you need to bring to the next meeting?

    8. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by dkf · · Score: 1

      If the device can leave the building it shouldn't have sensitive information on it, and it shouldn't have access to sensitive information, at least not without a separate form of authentication.

      Sometimes sensitive information has to leave the building. An example is if you're going off to give a demonstration of a prospective product to a potential partner, whose buy-in is necessary to making the product viable at all; that'll be very commercially sensitive (well, depending on what you're doing) and it's not practical to demand that the partner always come to your site. (Assume there's an NDA in place, of course.)

      Encrypted devices help a lot with such issues, though they're not magic bullets (particularly if there's no proper backup plan). Ownership is less important; it's often taken as a proxy for "set up right" (and if only that always corresponded in practice with things truly being configured correctly).

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    9. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. They may not carry around credit card numbers but what about automatic (save passwords) ACCESS to similar information? They may not carry around credit card info but maybe they carry autologon access TO the SAME credit card info. Sure, there is policy about that for work equipment, but the BYOD isn't WORK equipment so does WORK policy apply? There isn't an answer to that question and even if there was, the average staffer wouldn't understand what the answer means to them regarding BYOD use.

      So, once you have access to a device with say a remote desktop saved password, now you are inside the intranet. Now it's easier to do things like run a password checker like L0phtcrack. Now you can get an account that has access to the HIPPA related stuff.

      All it took was no saved password for remote desktop to avoid making things easier. However, on a BYOD, how do you enforce the owner not saving passwords?

      Loose example, I know but you see the point yes? The BYOD should be considered to already be inside but can't be treated hostile by default - that would make things hard and staff wouldn't BYOD anymore. C team people respond with 'make it easy' to encourage it's use to lower quantifiable costs though they add unquantifiable risk as a tradeoff.

      The L0phtcrack example was one I actually used real world - the show and tell in front of the CEO resulted in the following:
      1.) enforced password complexity
      2.) enforced password changes on schedule
      3.) no reusing of the previous password
      4.) account lockout policy
      5.) no admin access for normal user accounts
      6.) CEOs removal from the domain administrators group

      Took 30 seconds but it had to actually be seen by the decider before anything changed. This was the only decider that I've worked with that was willing to run the experiment though. This was long before smartphones or byod was even a thought.

      I know some people where I work now that use only numeric in there passwords and they access HIPPA and SOX stuff directly. This person along with all of their co-workers just got smartphones with no limits on what they can install. Despite all the warnings and pointing to legal obligations and policy that's never enforced, we were told "we have to make exceptions."

      Remember this when you see a doctor, pharmacist, banker, lawyer, whatever using a smartphone.

    10. Re:Question for fans of BYOD by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Sure, and in situations like that you issue a company device to do it on. And you STILL keep that device firewalled from your network.

      But I don't think that's what we're talking about. There seems to be this attitude that if the device belongs to the company it's "locked down" and is trustworthy. A sibling post in this thread suggested that the problem is that personal devices give attackers a way into the corporate network. Once an attacker has physical access to a device all bets are off. Encrypting it might work. But if your network is trusting it, you've probably got problems even then - it's unlikely your phone lock password, even if it's a company issued Blackberry, is really adequate to protect your entire network.

      The OP was probably talking about the everyday e-mails and minutiae that people carry around all the time, which aren't really that sensitive. If something that actually is sensitive, like credit card numbers, customers' personal information or secret prototypes, is on somebody's everyday phone, corporate issued or personal, you're doing something wrong, and it's not letting your employees check their email on their own devices.

  20. Somebody had to say it... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    No actually I feel more like a cow (human "resource"). The company provides a stall for me to hang out with food, water and toilet facilities located nearby.

    Bullshit.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  21. 20 hours spent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    checking FB, slashdot, etc etc

  22. a few questions on this by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

    Okay im going to assume this is in jobs where you are not being paid hourly (since the Wolves at the DOL find extra hours without extra pay "interesting")

    1 are companies actually paying for the extra "on call" time?

    2 do they also realize that your response time may be impaired if you can't stop and sit down to do X?

    3 are they just using this to comp for "dead times"?

    --
    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  23. I've been on call since last October by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    I've been on call since last October.
    I get $50/week for it.
    It's kind of lame.
    I wasn't able to start taking vacation again until about 3 months ago, and even then I was required to always be in cell coverage areas, within 10min of an internet connection and carry a company laptop with me at all times. I once had to remote in from a pontoon boat while tethered to my cellphone.

    1. Re:I've been on call since last October by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not a vacation.....

    2. Re:I've been on call since last October by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you in the cubicle next to me? James, is that you?

    3. Re:I've been on call since last October by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2hr response time for me to make a physical appearance). From late 2004-early 2006, I was salary w/ $50 per after hour response call regardless of time. Basically from late 2006 till present - same deal, higher salary, no OT.

      I try not to work too hard during the 6hrs or so I pretend to be working.

      Don't get me wrong, if there's "real work" to do, I'll knock it out as well as I can as quick as I can (quality trumps speed, within reason) - but I refuse busy work.

  24. What the hey 20 hours... by niftymitch · · Score: 1

    What the hey 20 hours...
    If you are part time that takes you to full time.
    If you are full time that is a 60 hour week and
    should be getting compensation for the hours
    beyond 40. It is the rare person that is truly
    exempt from overtime if the boss calls at random
    time to see if you answer in a sliding 12 hour
    window.

    Keep a call log.... normal bills will do. If the boss is
    calling and checking on you he is in effect posting extended hours and
    you should be compensated. If he leaves a demand
    for prompt action outside of normal business hours....

    The dam OCD fast twitch caffeine over loaded ADD kids that so quickly
    get into middle management will cost the company good employees
    or big bucks. They look at their smart phone like a Gameboy
    and your are some little sprite gathering power points and gold coins
    for them.

    --
    Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
  25. Hourly pay by KalvinB · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't "happily" work more if I were making salary. Salary is based on a 40 hour work week. So by the end of the year the overs and unders should average 40 hours a week. Most companies don't see it that way. It's just a way to get around labor laws.

    Since I get paid by the hour I work as much as I need to. I have a couple clients that want to make me salary and I'm going with "no" on that. Working from home, making my own hours and having a direct correlation between time and money seems to be ideal. Right now I can't go over 40 a week with a particular client because it would be time and a half by state law where he's at. Somehow, I don't think that would be a concern if I were salary. That's just business. So I do business differently.

  26. Relaxing for me... by x181 · · Score: 1

    Disable work email from my personal devices, redirect unknown phone numbers to voicemail (including "unknown" phone numbers), block news sites by way of adblock on my computers, shut down my computer when not in use (so I think twice about turning it back on), cancel cable service, put my cellphone on vibrate, go for walks, do some physical labor, engage in hobbies that mix what I enjoy with something physical like robotics. I am more relaxed during my personal time by disconnecting from the outside world and focusing on something outside of my mind (something that is not conceptual or virtual). There is definitely something about balancing personal and interpersonal time and internal and external engagements to create a healthy existence.

  27. some places have the walmart attitude of no OT by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    some places have the walmart attitude of no OT and work off the clock to get it done.

    Even hourly contract jobs some times have the don't even thing about putting down OT hours.

    1. Re:some places have the walmart attitude of no OT by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      some places have the walmart attitude of no OT and work off the clock to get it done.

      Even hourly contract jobs some times have the don't even thing about putting down OT hours.

      Simple enough...then those are gigs I would not work....

      Again, MY time is worth too much to me....my life is too short to not spend as much of my time doing what "I" please.....if someone else wants my time, they have to PAY for it...simple, really.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:some places have the walmart attitude of no OT by garaged · · Score: 1

      As fool as it sounds, unemployment rates are high enough that a lot of us have to worry about being laid off just to check if our "lack of commitment" can be improved by getting a new "half the paycheck" guy into the team.

      Also, I work for the largest university in Mexico, it is public, and does not actually contemplate extra hours, so there is no way I can ask them for it, and still there are (few) cases when there is no way to avoid working a little offtime, so I would have to trade getting my time a value against not actually working in one of the best places I could work in my country

      On the good side, I have a somewhat flexible work time, I can say I will be offsite a couple of days in a course Im interested on without much trouble.

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
    3. Re:some places have the walmart attitude of no OT by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      As fool as it sounds, unemployment rates are high enough that a lot of us have to worry about being laid off just to check if our "lack of commitment" can be improved by getting a new "half the paycheck" guy into the team.

      Let me ask you this...are you constantly keeping your resume updated, searching for jobs out there...doing regular interviews (at least 2-3 per year, just to keep 'in shape')?

      The easiest time to find a new and better job...is while you still have the old one.

      The day in age of job for life in one place, has long passed us buy..you have to almost constantly be on the look for new and better opportunities. To keep moving up, you should be job hopping at least every 3 years, especially if you are young.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:some places have the walmart attitude of no OT by garaged · · Score: 1

      I started to work late, at 30, Im about to be 38 and starting my 5 job using that very same technique, but I dont plan to keep going like that much longer.

      And my point stands, I do my best to keep being competitive, but a lot of people does not have the education or the opportunities, and they risk a lot by refusing to do after hours and stuff.

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
  28. BYOD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are using it at home, isn't it Keep your Own Device?

  29. Email: Last is first by Compaqt · · Score: 1

    Latest? Actually, if you want to be the "latest" you should send your email at exactly 8:01 AM.

    One of the things that sort of nutty about email is the earlier emails get read last, just because of the sorting.

    If you send a series of emails in which you patiently explain a bunch of things, and then in the following emails, you go into detail on some of those subjects, your readers will get the detail emails first (in their sorting).

    Reading those will make them go "Huh?".

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
  30. If it's Wintel or Android - yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not so much for Apple

  31. Insecure? by iiiears · · Score: 1

    Why would you interrupt the reason you work for more work.

    Family.

    They are the only people in the world that will care about you when you can't work any more. If you are carrying a phone for work you are doing it to feel needed.

    --
    15TW = 15,000 Nuclear Reactors. (Approx. one accident a month.)