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Arctic Sea Ice Hits Record Low Extent
mdsolar writes "Arctic sea ice has hit a record low extent for the period of satellite observation. Further, this record has been set in August when the minimum annual sea ice extent (and the prior record) has always come in September. Further still, the ice is still retreating as rapidly as it was in June and July when normally the decrease of sea ice extent slows in August. It is thus possible the the final minimum sea ice extend for 2012 will be seen in October rather than September as has always occurred in the past. More than one monitoring effort agree on the existence of a new record."
... to get first post before it melts
...watching nature at work...
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
By October the air temp is around 13 degrees Fahrenheit. The max is 18 degrees and the minimum is 8 degrees. Days with Min Temp Below Freezing 31. http://www.climate-zone.com/climate/united-states/alaska/barrow/ Are you still gonna stand by your statement of melting in October??
Ice melting to the lowest point evar? This must obviously be because of human-caused global warming!
I expect this post will be full of the normal vitriol from barely-informed people.
The CB App. What's your 20?
If climate change is real and man-made, the human race isn't mature enough to react to it in time. The number of people that have a wishy-washy position on it despite the evidence is downright scary. Until the price of food goes up by 10x there isn't going to be a significant reaction, and by then it may be too late.
Without the same observations over a longer period, this data is meaningless in and of itself.
It could easily be part of a cycle we have not been able to observe because we've lacked the means and meaningful observational time frame to detect it. It's simply one point on a graph spanning millenniums.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
It's good for business, and that's all that matters. For one thing it gives Japan easier access to oil shipped from the North Sea. Carnival Cruise Lines can do more Arctic tours, and have Polar Bear steaks. They can club baby seals and have tailor made coats made right on board. This is not a disaster, it's an opportunity. Make the best of it.. while it lasts.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Start looking at northern land that can be purchased cheaply, soon it may be prime tropical real estate!
Chief Thinker www.devotedskeptic.com
You must be new here. Slashdot is hardly the bastion of the ill-informed global warming deniers. Slashdot is full of various types or nerds who by and large are smarter than most (exceptions do occur)
If arctic sea level is a quasi-monotonically decreasing function, then isn't every point in time (after a certain threshold, and when the level changes) a record low?
Yawn.....speculations.
... that if climate change were legitimate, the Earth would "shut down" and prevent any bad consequences.
What is really scary about this is that only a few years ago scientists were saying that the Arctic "could be ice free in summer before the end of the century" and the deniers were calling them alarmists THEN. Then in the last couple of years some of the most alarmist of these alarmists have been saying that the Arctic could be ice free in summer in the next couple of decades.
Now I look at the slope of the line on that chart and I think the Arctic is going to be to be pretty close to ice free THIS summer.
The Arctic sea ice is showing us how much more rapidly things can change than even the "worst alarmists" dare to predict when positive feedback loops kick in and tipping points are passed. What will be the ripple effects of this? Where is the next tipping point?
Global warming is a Great thing!
We can provide for endless new jobs over the coming centuries as we have to rebuild literally thousands of drowning cities! We will open up new sea shipping lanes, as previously impassable straits are expanded from rising ocean levels! Previously frozen tundra will become prime temperate real estate!
Imagine the possibilities!
/sarcasm
We should just turn our air conditioners around and turn them on full blast. That'll cool the outdoors down.
rewriting history since 2109
I know several people who never took any interest in any scientific matter whatsoever, and yet are now passionate in their critique of climate science and the vast global conspiracy that all scientists and smart people are obviously parties to. If this is what it takes to finally get them interested in science, maybe it's a good thing?
This is a prime example of a record low over recorder history. In this case recorded history is only the last 30 years. It does not indicate if there was a lower ice sheet cover in the last 100 years, 1000 years or 10,000 years Climate change is a long term phenomenon and 30 years of climate data is an indication of global warming but something similar could have happened outside of recorded history. Too many people look at the word "record" and interpret it as "this has never happened before" while in this case the true statement is "this had not happened in the last 30 years".
You'd be pretty amazed. There are tons of incredibly intelligent people that do all sorts of stupid things - deny global warming, believe in a god, vote republican, etc.
If you read response #4 of this update from Real Climate, you will see that the National Snow and Ice Data Centre hasn't called the record low yet (as of 26 Aug 2012 at 12:04 PM), since they use 5-day moving averages on their graphs. The graph referred to by the realclimate.org update and I think in the OP is based on daily data. The response is from Walt Meier of the NSIDC. I'll quote it here:
These are daily values, not the 5-day average, which is not quite at a record yet. Using a 5-day average removes some of the noise due to weather and other effects that cause small errors in the daily values. Thus the 5-day estimate is a more robust measure of sea ice changes. We will make an announcement on our web site when we have passed the current record: http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Walt Meier
NSIDC
I think however that there are other data series that do agree that the record has been broken, even with 5-day averages. Here is my favourite data compilation for Arctic Sea Ice. It contains many different graphs from different sources. Taken together, the data paints a disturbing picture.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
That one is worth looking at.
Weren't the first arctic tracking satelittes launched in the mid 1960's? It should be instructive to see all of the available data. It would also be helpful to show a chart of the yealy data rather than just averages of decades.
Used to be. Slashdot dropped below the average intelligence a few years ago. It's nothing more than a shrill and denier gripe fest.
This is no longer the site where intelligent people hang out.
So you were here before it became popular.
Yes, AGW is a serious problem, and denying it makes it costlier. However, the world is not ending. Green(tm) energy is getting cheaper and cheaper. It is predicted that solar will reach residential grid parity as early as 2015*. Not to mention next-generation nuclear. And, in a few decades, nuclear fusion. And if reducing emissions is not enough, we can cool Earth by increasing solar reflection** or by sequestering carbon*** or through some other action.
Also, how can people have such ridiculous short memories? The world was supposed to end in the 1970s though mass famines caused by overpopulation. Then the doomsayers changed their minds and predicted water wars. Then peak oil. Then the ozone layer hole (remember that?). Then acid rain. Then we very closely avoided Armageddon in 2000, due to the Y2K bug. Remember that? The mass societal disruptions, the nuclear wars that would be started because some digital nuclear weapon system misfired due to Y2K? Phew, that was close! But we survived.
Recently, we survived the Apocalypse in 21 May 2011, then 21 October 2011.
Now, of course, all the headlines are about climate change.
Do you know what is the single greatest cause of climate-change denialism? You. Doomsayers. Because you predict the Apocalypse every 5 years, people stopped listening.
Want to help the environment? Start talking straight.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/08/ff_apocalypsenot/
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_parity
** http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/08/putting-the-breaks-on-climate-change-with-diamonds/
*** http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/08/25/2359234/a-modest-proposal-for-sequestration-of-co2-in-the-antarctic
See http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3073583&cid=41133135
Is the various special Alarmists interests lining up to suck Obama Dick and foretell the end of the would.
Happens very frequently in August, the month that the Congressional Budget Committees finalize their
new FY budgets.
Typical Washington DC and newbies who want air-time on CNN, NPR and a host of others.
People might be able to stand the thought of your presence if you were less pedantic and demeaning for the sake of doing so.
I find it very amusing that here on Slashdot, a few days after a paper claiming that such melts are actually not unusual, along comes another paper that is "gloom and doom". And yet, many people seem to be irrationally attached to the gloom-and-doom scenario, and have largely ignored the former, even though it was published in a highly respected peer-reviewed journal, and the reviewers found nothing wrong with it.
Thankyou for all the great links. I agree that AGW is a serious problem, and denying it could potentially be very dangerous (say, 10% chance of CAGW), and Green energy is about to show its hand big-time.
There is something import that I'd like to add. You have decried all the Malthusians since the 70s, but they've been around forever. (e.g., Christianity was, and still is, an apocalyptic cult.) It is a phenotype -- related to our genetic make-up -- and short of a eugenics program, or some evolutionary-scale event that punctures the genetic equilibrium, we will always have members of the population who are attracted to Malthusian dreams. If behavioural genetics doesn't make sense to you, then you can think of it as Jung's archetypal unconscious.
But, and it is a big but, it would be a mistake to believe that just because there is a Malthusian streak to a significant portion of the population (moths flying towards the flames) -- that does not mean that catastrophes never happen. A a collective, we have still failed to digest the Greek myth of Cassandra. The primary reason is the cognitive bubble, which characterizes pretty much all political discourse.
In the end, I believe that it is scientists -- real seekers of truth -- that identified the problem of AGW, and it will be scientists and engineers that save us. Our political discourse is simply too puerile for anything else.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
It is not AGW, it is the exponential population growth.
AGW stands for Anthropogenic Global Warming.
As in anthropo meaning human, and genesis meaning origin.
As in human impact on the global warming. ANY human impact.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
when the conveyor belt, (a.k.a. the ocean currents, e.g. the gulf stream), will stop or change course?
With the Arctic going like it is, it's going to happen.
There is no dispute, as far as I am aware, about the cause of the rapid, devastating acidification of the oceans - anthropogenic carbon dioxide uptake. We could talk about that instead, but the truth is that our planet is run by an alien species bent on destroying the planet, ala "They Live". Either that or we are just generally stupid, lazy and greedy as a species. I prefer to believe it is aliens.
It does seem that, while both sides are complicit in the problem, the left, at least, supports acting on science, while the right continues to rely on magical thinking - climate change denial, lower revenue to balance the budget, context-selective sperm, abstinence-based sex programs, 6,000-year old earth, you name it. You can present them with all of the evidence in the world, but they live in their own reality.
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
I find it very amusing that here on Slashdot, a few days after a paper claiming that such melts are actually not unusual, along comes another paper that is "gloom and doom".
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature11391.html
Although warming of the northeastern Antarctic Peninsula began around 600 years ago, the high rate of warming over the past century is unusual (but not unprecedented) in the context of natural climate variability over the past two millennia.
Oh and the "not unprecedented" part...
That's just the way of saying "Yeah, sure. It happened before."
In this case, "before" lies somewhere between 9,200 and 2,500 years ago.
Then, during the most of human civilization's existence it cooled down, until around 600 years ago it started to warm up again.
Coincidentally, at about that time the 100-year war was raging across Europe, the Mind Dynasty replaced the Mongol-led Yuan Dynasty in China while Mongols continued doing their thing all the way to Europe, in Americas Incas were spreading while Aztecs were busy sacrificing humans and Maya were busy with political turmoils of their own.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I have sadly only anecdotal evidence of this (the worst kind) but the few climate change denialist I have discussed with, which held the "do nothing" plan, are also christian end-of-time type which really think the second coming is around the door. Which is why they seem to think (consciously or not) that pollution law, environment stewardship and protection are useless : why protect something which will be soon be destroyed by the second coming and the apocalypse ?
As far as ocean levels are concerned, it's often overlooked that even if 100% of the Arctic (North Pole) ice cap melted, next to nothing would happen. The ice in the Arctic is already displacing water as there is no land there. It's the ANTarctic, as well as to a lessor extent Greenland that matters. The huge quantities of ice in those places are sitting on land, NOT displacing water; so when THAT water melts it runs into the ocean and would raise ocean levels.
Slashdot is one of the oldest nerd/tech blogs in existence, before there even was a word for such a thing. For this reason, it's a bit peculiar:
1. Unbelivable as it may seem, the net had a higher share of libertarians before than today. Libertarians often (not always) deny global warming because a) it gives the uncomfortable feeling that strong government action may be needed to address it, and b) they have no problem assuming they're smarter than climate scientists, because they assume they're smarter than everyone anyway.
2. Since it is so old, many slashdot posters have actually had time to become quite rich from their geek skills. Well-off, established people don't want to believe the world is in trouble and that they need to change.
3. There are today a number of tech/geek sites which are arguably more interesting than slashdot. Most have moved on to these. Those who remain are weighted towards the kind of people who don't approve of unnecessary change, i.e. conservatives, who also tend to deny climate science for cultural reasons. (Not inherent reasons, if you ask me climate change is a prime example of unnecessary change).
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
If only it was easy to measure hot things (volcanoes, rifts, etc) at the depths of the oceans. Baring that, maybe the u.s. navy could release the temperature data that has been collected by its submarines for the past 50+ years.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
Is it you're hoping that people will not call *Actual lunatics* looneys because you'll call them a looney too? But that makes YOU a looney b your own admission (since that is all you have required as evidence of lunacy) whilst leaving the original caller in the clear if they have and require *additional* evidence of this person's lunacy.
Really, I don't think you worked it out.
A good eexample of lunacy is Buzz Aldrin. He's smart enough to notice the internal inconsistency in his statement:
"I'm not necessarily of the school that we are causing it all, I think the world is causing it."
Problems include:
1) What school says we are causing it all? None.
2) By saying the world is causing it, either
a) we are part of the world, therefore us, but implying
b) we have nothing to do with it at all, which then puts him in another extreme end: we are causing NONE of it
If he's smart enough to know this problem in the statement, then he is irrational and that's colloquially called "lunacy".
The mathematics of thermal runaway on those old designs is nearly identical to the albedo-loss calculations of our ice caps.
I'd be brave enough to guess that they are the same equations with different constants and variables. When "thermal runaway" happens to a planet it's called a runaway greenhouse effect, Venus is to Earth as the fused transistor is to a working transistor. We're very unlikely to trigger such an effect here on Earth* but it's fairly well established science that Earth's ultimate fate is to look like a lot like Venus, ( in about 500Myrs from now). There are also -ve feedbacks, eg: expanding deserts tend to put dust in the air which has a cooling effect, as do sulfur emissions (which unfortunately also cause acid rain). When you add up all the +ve/-ve forcings and feedbacks you get a number called climate sensitivity
Once the planet has undergone "thermal runaway" it's "fused", the oceans are gone forever, the hydrogen in the water vapor is split off in the upper atmosphere by radiation and over time leaks off into space due to it being the lightest element, carbon is now bound to the oxygen from the H2o to form more CO2, the process also makes the atmosphere denser since C is heaver than H. Earth is losing Hydrogen from the same process, it just taking a lot longer than it did for Mars and Venus (probably due to Earth's strong magnetic field.
* - James Hansen and other climatologists at the top of their field have warned that burning ALL known reserves of FF (coal/oil/gas/tar sands) would be more than enough forcing to trigger a RGH, sadly it's exactly what most industrial nations are planning to do over the next 250yrs or so (politicians can and do think long term when they want to). I say a RGH is unlikely since there are major signs that political will is growing to make the simplest and most cost effective adaptation we can to avert such an apocalyptic scenario, namely rebuilding the energy infrastructure ('a stitch in time' and all that). It's really not a huge drama when spread over 40-50yrs, on that time scale every nuke/coal generator on the planet has been planned, built and/or rebuilt, since I was born. We have to replace every one of them again in the next half century anyway. The only thing holding us up is a shrinking group of corporate Luddites such as Peabody coal who have not yet accepted their business model is as dead as the dinosaurs they are burning. If they hold on to coal for too long then bankruptcy will be a self-fulfilling prophecy as renewables take over and coal mines become virtually worthless.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
The VAST MAJORITY are ignorant about their cars but will take the advice of a certified mechanic.
This is called "sensible".
Those who insist their mechanic is on some government-led secret plot to sell "gas" (which you can't see! Can you see the air? No! That's a gas! See! PROOF!) and that cars run by pixies riding horses in the engine compartment, therefore place hay in their tank and insist that everyone else do so too are called "lunatics".
But perhaps there is an impenetrable barrier on September 30 that requires a bounce.
It trips over the barrier about week earlier (the equinox), so I'd expect the timing of low point would have a similar consistency when noise is removed. I picture the ice extent as a sine wave that is being distorted and dragged downward on the graph in TFA, however the frequency of the wave remains unchanged since it represents the climate "forcing" causing the change (ie: Earth's orbit). The same phenomena is behind the "Pluto is warming" canard, summer solstice had just passed on Pluto but the atmosphere continued to warm due to thermal inertia.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
There are today a number of tech/geek sites which are arguably more interesting than slashdot. Most have moved on to these.
Could you list them? I know Slashdot has it's flaws, but I'm yet to find anything better...
Otherwise these news would be kind of worrying.
All righty then. You forgot to mention tin foil hat technology in your definition of all things not you.
There is no global overpopulation. Some places (such as Japan) are already experiencing population aging and decline, which is bad in many ways. Other places (such as the USA and specially Europe) already have sub-replacement fertility rates, and their population only grows because of demographic lag and immigration. It is predicted the the European Union population (now at 503M) will reach zero natural population increase by 2015 and zero total population increase in 2035 (at 520M), then start declining.
The USA will grow from 310M in 2010 to 403M in 2050. [1]
Asia will increase from 4.2B in 2010 to 5.1B in 2050, then start declining. [2]
The only region that is really growing is Africa. It will increase from 1B in 2010 to 2.2B in 2050. [2] Then its population density will be 73/km2. [3] Compare that to the current population density in Portugal (115/km2), in South Korea (487/km2) and in Taiwan (641/km2). [4]
Global population is predicted to grow from 7B in 2011 to 9B in 2050 and 10B in 2100 [5] and start falling soon after [6].
And according to [7], 40-50% of America-produced food is thrown away. According to [8], 1/3 of the world food is thrown away.
And this does not take into account that people eat, just for pleasure, excessive quantities of resource-intensive food (such as meat). If Americans/Europeans want to help the poor, an easy way would be to decrease (say, by 30%) their diet of meat. This will immediately reduce food demand and, for double bonus, the saved money can be donated to charity. And much arable land is wasted on subsidized inefficient corn-based ethanol. You can lobby your government to stop that.
Plus, there does not seem to be a negative correlation between population density and GDP per capita. [9]
African hunger is not caused by overpopulation. It is caused by corrupt and authoritarian governments, and by guerrillas/terrorists motivated by Marxism, Islamism, ethnic hate or simply greed.
Overpopulation fear-mongering is very old - at least as old as Malthus. One of its more recent incarnations was the 1968 book "The Population Bomb", which predicted mass starvation to occur in the 1970s.
Anyway, for better or for worse, there is already strong action taken by individuals, foundations, and Western governments, to restrict fertility in Africa.
1 : http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Analytical-Figures/htm/fig_11.htm
2 : http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Analytical-Figures/htm/fig_2.htm
3 : According to [2], Africa will have 2.2B people in 2050, and according to Google[10] and Wikipedia [11], the area of Africa is 30,221,532 km2
4 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density
5 : http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Analytical-Figures/htm/fig_1.htm
6 : http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Analytical-Figures/htm/fig_6.htm
7 : http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/news/ng.asp?id=56376-us-wastes-half
8 : http://www.fao.org/news/story/en/item/74192/icode/
9 : http://sanamagan.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/population-population-density-gdp-per-capita-ppp/
10 : https://www.google.co
...that ice doesn't melt in the case of legitimate warming.
I am just saying that, in the end, the problem will be solved with a low to moderate impact on the economy.
This is what happens every time . Y2K, ozone layer hole, acid rain, all were resolved with little impact on the economy. Overpopulation was absolutely a non-issue. Why would AGW be different?
Really, apocalypse is predicted every 5 years. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 12 times, shame on me.
You missed the fact that most of the intelligence has long since migrated away from slashdot because of over saturation of the unintelligent. Thusly what you're largely left with is those who think of themselves as intelligent, yet are not, and proceed to build a massive ego around what is likely an average or slightly higher IQ.
I commonly find a massive number of comments are wrong, half truths, and complete misinterpretations of available facts, yet are constantly re-confirmed via moderation. Slashdot has become the bastion of confirmation bias one sided censorship. Which in turn wrongly educates the next influx of newbie slashdotters. Who in turn, then believe they should have a massive ego based on the wrong information they learned while on slashdot.
By far, its the exception to the rule to actually find informative, factually accurate, intelligent comments on slashdot these days. Which of course, continues to drive away the intelligence which previously made slashdot great. That's why you see so many comments about slashdot being dead. It is afer all. There is nothing great about slashdot anymore as most all of us (I have a 5-digit UID) who made slashdot great have long since left or stopped contributing anywhere near what once was - as it would largely be ignored and trolled by the ignorant masses.
...the satellites that monitor sea ice were launched in the late 1960's. Why is the data prior to 1980 missing? Also, why do we just see a graph of the averages for decades but there's no accompanying graph of the yearly data showing trending? Showing a couple of years as compared to averaged decades seems a bit odd. Yeah, I know, It's just crazy talk to ask for a full data set and graphs without arbitrarily chosen layouts before deciding if the claims being made are valid. Must be all the tin foil on my head....
Slashdot is the worst, except for all the others. Just because slashdot has become king of the turd, doesn't mean its not on a turd.
This exchange wonderfully confirms some of the other posts in this thread. Read them. Get better.
I should have quoted the parent and the grandparent.
This Slashdot story, by itself, is not alarmist. I was responding to the parent and grandparent, who are alarmists as Hell.
Slashdot should allow adding additional text to posts! It would greatly enhance the discussion.
Some environmentalist alarmists have actually proposed crippling the economy to mandate zero economic growth for twenty years.
Some calculate the carbon impact of an African baby, and start promoting abortion.
Some wackos even promote degrowth . Yes, you heard that right. Intentional economic contraction.
Many use environmentalism to express their misanthropy. One of the world's most famous misanthropes, Paul R. Ehrlich, speaks of his contempt for human beings:
So yes, if we let these people take over, it will be a humanitarian catastrophe.
*Note: I do not deny AGW, and I support research into solar, wind, next-generation nuclear fission, nuclear fusion, efficient biofuels, and carbon sequestering. I can even accept a carbon tax. I am just saying that there is a difference between serious engineers who study the environment, and the misanthrope loonies.
More like cue the sophistry...
1. Libertarians often (not always) deny *MAN MADE* global warming because a) History suggests that climate change is inevitable and has happened before man walked the planet and b) the leading climate scientists have been caught cooking the data.
2. Since it is so old, many slashdot posters have actually had time to become quite knowledgeable from their geek skills. Well informed, rational people don't believe the insane hype demanding they change their lives.
3. Very few people deny climate change for what you call "cultural reasons". I know the idea is to claim anyone objecting to your world view is a anti-science troglodyte but that kind of framing is every bit as invalid as the faux science created to support AGW.
Should I therefore kill your children so that these others may live?
Yeah, there are lots of misathopists out there. Don't let them get you down -- or stop you from thinking about solutions to our problems. I make fun of them myself. As a side note, Ehrlich isn't the misantropist that he is made out to be. He wrote a section of a book on what /might/ happen if we just let population ballon. He reasoned that, at some stage, action on population growth would be inevitable, and then imaginatively and graphically described what that may look like. It was a warning; however, it is now deliberately portrayed as a presecrption. Those who portray it this way are almost always using it to bolster some other argument, as you just did.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
There are today a number of tech/geek sites which are arguably more interesting than slashdot. Most have moved on to these.
WHHHHAAAAATTT??? Where did everybody go? Why didn't anybody tell me?
This is JUST like HIGH SCHOOL!!!
"There are today a number of tech/geek sites which are arguably more interesting than slashdot. Most have moved on to these"
For example?
OK, check out my UID for starters. Yes, that's a 3 digit number. And I could have had a 2 digit number if I'd have registered as soon as registering was an option, because I've been around here from before there were UIDs. With that fact out of the way, I'm definitely not in GW denial and never have been, because I'm in essence always taking the scientific approach to everything and the GW evidence has been around for a very long time.
Sorry to punch a hole in your scientifically unproven theory :-), but always willing to study the evidence for it if you can provide it after all.
Linux user since early January 1992.
This is not record low. Why all the media are lying ?
Here is ice in 2007:
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims/ims_gif/ARCHIVE/AK/2007/ims2007265_alaska.gif
And here is 2012:
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims/ims_gif/DATA/cursnow_alaska.gif
Church of global warming at its best ?
JAM
In fact I learned to post when everyone was smart enough to understand the purpose of a subject line.
Now get off my lawn.
ironic captcha: charcoal
...will finally be able to discover the Northwest Passage!
The test of overpopulation is simply whether natural resource consumption outpaces natural resource renewal.
Our population growth and agricultural yields have been achieved through unsustainable means.
Our seeming prosperity is not the triumph of technology; it's primarily a loan that our kids will be obliged, and unable, to repay.
I didn't say all early adopters are AGW deniers. But you can look for youself next time there's a climate story.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
1. Some deny just man-made warming, but many deny warming too - at the very least some of the observed warming. Your a) and b) are tired and wrong, and just more evidence for my 3.
2. Switching to a better-updated site is hardly a shattering life change. You may have become knowledgeable, but you're unlikely to become much more of it if you hang around here.
3. On the contrary, I'm confident most people deny - and accept climate change for cultural reasons, just like their attitudes to everything from abortion to foreign policy. Few people, even very smart people, adopt a well-reasoned position on everything. They adopt positions consciously on a few issues they care about, and adopt the rest from the kind of people who seem to agree on those issues.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
It makes no sense to ignore economics here. The whole question is about whether we can produce enough to feed ourselves in the long term.