Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Dealing With Disabilities In the Workplace?
mpol writes "The job market can be hard right now, depending on your background and location. Having a disability makes things even more interesting. Seven years ago I suffered from a psychosis, and I was diagnosed with schizophrenia. I have been recovering quite well, and last year I started searching for a paying job. I found one, but it didn't turn out to be the right place, so I'm back at my volunteer job as web developer. My current workplace is quite unique, as there are several people who have had a psychosis in the past, or have been diagnosed with autism. When I look at myself I know that I have some things that will always play a role: I'm very sensitive to the atmosphere in the workplace for example. I also need clear communication, more so than other people. Furthermore, a workweek of maybe 20-25 hours is the max for me. I tried self-employment, but motivation and discipline are a bit hard to come by, and it's not something that will work for me long-term. In theory it's perfect, in practice not so much. I'm not sure what my short-term future will look like, and for this year I'm quite happy where I am, but next year I might go searching for a salaried job again. I'm wondering if there are more people on Slashdot who have a job in ICT, or are seeking one, and also have disabilities. How did you land at your job, and what issues do you run into in daily practice?"
So your story of a workplace with "several people who have had a psychosis in the past" while yourself being a schizophrenic made me laugh when I imagined you working alone at home as I do while being surrounded by other "people" with mental problems.
Sorry... I'm a bad person it seems.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Sigh. I guess this troll makes a valid point that the average idiot might think something like this. Most educated people would know better of course. I hope you find a job that you enjoy!
which is totally what she said
Congratulation, you've just won the Inappropriate Generalization of the Month Award. We'll contact you shortly.
Ezekiel 23:20
My last job included an employee with well controlled schizophrenia and another with moderate autism. The employer did all the right things as far as I'm aware, shorter hours and short-notice time off were available, and all of the management were made aware of the issues. There were plenty of staff meaning that unsuitable or particularly stressful jobs (eg dealing with large crowds at busy periods) could be avoided and the members of staff in question would pick up on the jobs more suited to them instead.
By far the most useful thing, however, were the pub trips after work. Both employees were quite happy to talk openly about their respective conditions, which took it from being a confidential, management-only issue to being an open one where people were encouraged to ask questions and understand how they could help the employees adapt. The chats over a beer/coffee were far more useful than any management policy could have been.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
If only you had multiple personality disorder you could sell yourself as an entire development team! They say I have megalomania... once I'm emperor of the world I'll show them a thing or two!
...I just came for the free beer.
Sitting in an office for 8 hours a day is not a big deal? I have whole weeks where I go without talking to a single person (except email updates). Even during meetings I often just sit there without talking.
And when I get bored (or stressed) I stop the work and just zone out or listen to music until I feel better. Maybe you should try to find a job like mine (designer/programmer).
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
News for nerds, stuff that matters to the people using your fillings to monitor your conversations
You're already a webdev...be your own boss and don't mess with anyone else.
I think the OP mentioned that:
but motivation and discipline are a bit hard to come by,
For starters, If you get an interview, leave this part out.
Honestly, it seems like you're going to have to settle for what you have now, change your expectations a bit, or get motivated to work on your own. Everything you wrote will scream "Undependable and Hard to Work With!" to an employer. We hire people who are disabled at my job, and make accomodations. But typically, the accomodations are more in line with giving them what they need (a first floor work space near conference rooms, specialized equipment, etc) to succeed, because these things typically don't cost all that much compared to recruiting / hiring cost, plus it's the law. Employers will often do what's necessary to elevate you to be able to perform on par with employees of a typical ability. But they're far less likely to lower their standards.
If you have a disability, you're at a disadvantage to the thousands of other job seekers out there. You have to make up for it in other areas, but if you lack motivation, then forget it. Without ambition and motivation, you're just another slug feeding off others.
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
You're unemployed, have no personal motivation, need to be handled with kid gloves from environment right up to management, cannot work a full-time schedule, and are pretty much untouchable as far as a clearance goes. Good luck finding a job that can cater to all of your needs in such a depressed market... and make a note to count your blessings (thank your sugar-mama?) that you are able to survive by working in a volunteer capacity for months or years at a time.
To be quite honest, it's going to be a tough road ahead for you. Companies usually are not very accommodating of the types of requirements you have laid out. I would suggest looking for work with your municipal or state government. They are more open to special needs employees. That's going to be you best bet.
Something that did strike me as interesting is the requirement for a workweek of maybe 20-25 hours. Is this due to your mental disability or do you have other obligations in your life that would limit your ability to work? I would try to rectify that issue if possible, because even government jobs require that you work 37.5 hours a week. (Around here at least)
Best of luck.
--fatboy
Hello. I have autism, and I'm 36 years old. I'm a sysadmin at a well-respected university in the United States. No one at work knows I'm autistic.
Unfortunately autism is not a legally protected disability in the United States, so "coming out" to my coworkers, boss, HR, et al is much too big of a risk.
No doubt my coworkers must think I'm one of the strangest people they've ever met.
so, it can be as simple as not telling people.
I'd suggest being an independent contractor for a company that performs IT work. You already mentioned that you are a web developer, if you have any other skills like systems administration or engineering then use those skills as well. Companies do not mind a independent contractor because frankly, they only have to pay you when there is work and there are no associated benefits (sorry).
Being an independent contractor will give you the ability to work at your own pace. If you need a break, just don't take the job when they call you. Without more information about your skill set, I cannot recommend any specific companies. Web design is a pretty saturated field these days, however more back-end tasks are still in high demand, like database admin.
sudo make me a sandwich
Sorry to hear about your conditions.
> but motivation and discipline are a bit hard to come by
While that may be true, success like anything else is learned. It starts the first thing you wake up, and ends when you go to sleep. In order to get good at it you have to keep practicing. They say a person becomes proficient at a skill when they have done it for at 1,000 hours. In order to have discipline you must reprogram your mind. With time + effort you can achieve it.
WRT motivation no one can give you motivation. The trouble with companies that often times they should of focus on NOT DEMOTIVATING people. Being self-employed you need to find your own motivation. i.e. There has to be at least _one_ thing you enjoy doing, what is it? You say you are a web developer. Do any programming languages interest you? Any kind of computer science problems? The reason I ask is because:
There are 2 hard things in life
- finding your passion
- finding how to make money at it
Take care of the first one, and the second one will follow.
You say you require clear communication. That's true in all relationships. Your relationship with your computer (i.e the compiler / interpretor requires clear syntax), relationships with your co-workers (miscommunication is the cause of many problems), relationships with friends and family. The point of all this is that there are courses you can take to help with this. Dale Carnegie is a popular one. Shelf-Help books are another.
One of the secrets to happiness is to remove false expectations. You have to match you ideal world with the reality of your situation. Let's play a game for a moment. I have a magic wand; with it you can do anything you want. What would it be? Forget about all the impracticalities for a moment. If you could do anything in the world what would it be? The secret recipe is to now make a game plan on how you could achieve that big goal, but one small sub-goal at a time.
Good luck!
But the reality is in this economy there are dozens of other people who are equally as skilled as you are, but are willing to work 40+ hour work weeks and aren't "sensitive" to the work environment. Your best option in the long run is to try to cope the best you can with your condition.
Getting a job as a Politician should be easy for someone of his condition.
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
Make sure you put that on your resume. Employers -- you know, the people that stand to profit or lose money on you, depending on whether you have sufficient motivation and discipline -- will want to know about that.
Unless you're willing to work for yourself, you're not in much of a position to demand this workschedule and that type of communication and the other environment. Either pay yourself and set your own working conditions, or take somebody else's paycheck and whatever working conditions they decide to offer.
I speak English and I've down modded morons before.
Sig. Sig. Sputnik
Your diagnosis fits under the requirements of the ADA (if you are looking for a job in the US). Any employer (of sufficient size) must make reasonable accommodations and cannot discriminate against you in the hiring process or during employment if they are aware of your disability. That is not to say that discrimination does not occur. In order for you to be protected by the ADA, the employer must be aware of the disability which will then allow them to discriminate if they are assholes. Considering the level of discrimination against people with mental illnesses, I would keep a record. You are also not required (ethically or legally) to disclose your diagnosis at any time unless you want ADA protections.
Suddenly, the hairy finger of a familiar monkey tapped me on the shoulder. It was time.--G. T.
I work in IT, and am profoundly Deaf. Working with a disability is definitely a challenge. You have to set expectations and remind people constantly--I work in a company of only 35 people and I have to remind people I can't hear for shit. You have to advocate for yourself, and let people know what YOU need to be successful in the job. That being said, all of these things are difficult to do.
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
When I was just starting out, I originally found work in my field because I showed an aptitude to learn and to help, and was constantly searching for more to learn, but I was unemployed student. I spoke with my professor and expressed my difficulty in looking for a job that suited me. Now granted, it was sheer luck for me, my professor came back to me a week later stating that he knew of a place I could / should apply to. He wrote a letter of recommendation and I submitted my resume / application. It took a month before I was offered an interview, but it happened. It started out as part-time work, and once I proved my eagerness to exceed, and I showed that I was responsible and truly cared about my work ethic, it was a word-of-mouth lead that landed me some additional work to get full-time.
I didn't have a disability other than needing glasses, but I had to prove myself, that I was more than just some college kid. I think that is what you're in need of, is a little help from friends and a lot of proving yourself. Performing volunteer work is a good start, and I think you're on the right track. If you are a solid member in your community you might look to community associations to try to garner some work, or through your local congregation if you attend church. A good Samaritan is a great place to start, but remember, you have to prove that that Samaritan is right about you and show that you're worthy of that praise. Once you've established yourself again then you'll probably see a lot more open doors of opportunity.
This is only my 2 cents, I hope it helps. Good luck.
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
I burned myself after working like hell for 15 years. After my first breakdown, I decided to move to country where it cost me much less money to live, and access to nature really help. I took some online classes and now im looking for venture capital to fund my patent and startup. I hope I can be successful enough to not HAVE to work unless I feel like it...
This is my experience with deep depression... I hope it will help.
Tomorrow is another day...
You say you don't want to be self employed, but from what you say that's simply because of "motivation and discipline". That can usually be helped by having people to work with. You seem to already be working with people who you get along with, so perhaps your solution isn't going self employment alone but starting a business with others.
Oh yeah, because it pays sooo well. Sorry you hate your life. Maybe you should chop off a few fingers and jump on that sweet sweet gravy train.
Granted, OP was probably being a fascist dick in making the comment, considering the assholish phrasing, but whether they meant to or not, they actually made an excellent point - too much income from a job will substantially decrease the amount of disability assistance this individual receives, likely to the detriment of their livelihood.
It's not a 1:1 ratio; getting a higher-paying job (or even a raise) can totally fuck the impoverished over financially.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Don't you see that the OP is just disgruntled because his workplace doesn't properly consider his disability?
You're behavior suggests you are a sociopath, so you stay away from MY workplace.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I'm very sensitive to the atmosphere in the workplace for example.
So work at home X percent of the time? Do you mean physical airborne atmosphere or emotional level?
Furthermore, a workweek of maybe 20-25 hours is the max for me.
For most of my "full time" coworkers that would be a heroic non-crunch time achievement. Do you mean 20 hours of "being in the building" with the usual ratio of 50% watercooler conversations about sports and TV / smoke breaks and 20% formal/informal meetings leaving about 6 hours of actual nose the the grindstone work, or 20 hours of actual nose to the grindstone work which would be pretty fabulous if anyone can actually do it?
I tried self-employment, but motivation and discipline are a bit hard to come by, and it's not something that will work for me long-term. In theory it's perfect, in practice not so much.
Partnership or small group is the way to go. Not 100000+ person megacorporation and not going it alone. Are people motivated to play MMORPGs because 1E6 other people they don't care about also play? No. Because the storyline (kill 15 bears and bring NPC the pelts!) is so amazing? No. Because their "friends" raid with them. Thats why.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Shall Set You Free. /don't count on it.
I don't think he does, given that he lives in the Netherlands.
You guys are all Anonymous Cowards.
Just sayin'...
That's for full-time employment. If you can only do 20-25 hours, don't look for a full time job because they'd want 35+ hours/week. Instead, look for part-time employment, where 20-25 hours is more typical (and usually the maximum because after that you'll be counted as a FTE).
The only down side is that benefits to part timers are practicaly non-existent, and many tax benefits also only apply to FTEs.
Instead of looking for full time employment on part time hours, narrow your search down to part time employment. This way the hours you work can be discussed (and they will be in the range of 20-25 hours a week tops normally).
Plus, because the wages and benefits are a lot lower, many employers are more willing to hire part-timers (as more people are looking for full time positions).
That's probably the best place to start.
Furthermore, a workweek of maybe 20-25 hours is the max for me. I tried self-employment, but motivation and discipline are a bit hard to come by, and it's not something that will work for me long-term. In theory it's perfect, in practice not so much.
I don't want to be self-employed either, but it's because I'm not a good salesman, not a good negotiator, hate the administrative parts of contracts and schedules and billing and I don't want my entire paycheck to depend on finding work. If you don't have the motivation and discipline for the work itself you're not going to be much of an employee either, on top of your other issues. If you want to find a job I wouldn't let that shine through, because I saw big red blinking "do not hire" signs that had nothing to do with your schizophrenia.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Just because you are at a PUB doesnt mean you are forced to get drunk. Get a Ginger Ale on the rocks and have a good time instead of ruining it for everyone else that does want to have a beer or something.
You do realize he has a neurochemical disorder, right? That's like telling a guy with no legs that he just needs an attitude adjustment.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Not every employer is a selfish miserable cunt.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I am new to Slashdot and for the first time I played with the display settings because nearly half the comments were hidden. That was a mistake. I now know why the default is to hide the down modded. Most of those comments were shameful and indecent. The writer asked for help. There are only two choices that one can decently make at that juncture. Help, or get out of the way of those who will try and say nothing. Teasing someone like this was not accepted in elementary school. Grow-up.
A requirement for 20-25 hours a week is because I really need to have my restdays. I can work a week for 5 days, and maybe 2 weeks. But it does wear me out. I get tired, can't get out of bed anymore, and I'm just generally unhappy. And that's just not the right path to take. :).
Right now I work 2 days, have a day off, and then work another day. There are jobs available that suit this rythm, but ofcourse not very much of them. I live in Europe, and the lifestyle is somewhat better. And I should take care not to get hired by an American company
And about other obligations. I have a girlfriend who needs time with me, and I have a healthy social life. So yes, you can call those obligations.
Well, don't worry about that. We can get you back before you leave. (Dr. Who)
Hence the mention of beer/coffee. I used to regularly go to the pub with an Islamic colleague, nowt wrong with ordering a glass of coke.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
Why does going to the pub mean getting drunk?
I am pretty sure he meant have a couple beers, funnel rotgut until you can't stand.
Good for you not drinking, no one cares nor asked about it.
...ear plugs almost continuously. I have found the "Quite, Please!" brand of white foam to be the best (~only effective) ones.
:) (Which is fine, because I generally thought the same of them. Note: my main work place challenges include some level of ADD, largely inhibiting my verbal cognitive and speaking skills, though this does seem to have improved somewhat over time.) I have found discipline the key element to both coding and interpersonal success. I have found the need to pretty much stone-wall (feign either obliviousness or complete unwillingness to enter into) any standard workplace provocations or psychological games or intrigue. I seem to have a history of inheriting the most perversely ill- conceived and implemented projects. I allow myself all the time such monstrosities should conceivably merit, including ample mental decompression and recuperation (eg. reading slashdot).
Though I am not formally diagnosed, based on their receptions I suspect that many former employees would consider this a technicality.
Though your condition might gain you some consideration, if you get to feeling overwhelmed, they can instinctively, unconsciously come swarming after you. In the end the onus is always on you to control your response and maintain your mental equilibrium. I have come to view many "normal" people as actually deranged along highly standardized lines. Time will tell...
After working for a number of "dud" companies, finally joining an extremely ambitious, motivated one highly prioritizing technical excellence, and being given meaty, challenging projects seemed to fundamentally improve my over-all productivity and general state of mind.
Sorry I left out the not.
Should have been:
I am pretty sure he meant have a couple beers, not funnel rotgut until you can't stand.
Why hire you when there are probably hundreds of alternative applicants without your baggage? Either you have some crazy unique skill to bring to the table, or they have a financial incentive to hire you (pay less money than someone "normal", or maybe there's some weird tax writeoff).
I don't mean this as an insult or anything, just as a shot of reality. You say you are happy doing volunteer work right now, which sort of implies that you are able to pay bills and stuff. If that's the case, stick with it. You can do that and some self-employment on the side as your motivation allows. You aren't going to find that kind of happiness with a salary job.
Well...not every week.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
(AC since my employer may be reading this and they don't know I have Aspergers)
Zoning out doesn't work if you need quiet around you, not music or forty people frantically discussing whatever comes to their mind, sometimes even work related stuff. One of the things a lot of these disabilities have in common, is that you need an environment with little distraction and very well dosed social interaction. That doesn't mean people can't do high pressure jobs or perform as good as the next guy. It just means that they need their space and quiet and a well defined border between work and private life. This essentially works better for practically every human being, disabled or not. It just happens to have a rather more pronounced effect on people that have mental disabilities in the Autism spectrum or schizophrenia.
That's going to be a problem when he seeks a salaried job
Undoubtedly. So, what are we as a society going to do with our schizophrenics in particular, and the problem of mental illness in general?
Let's begin with the understanding that schizophrenia, like autism and Down's Syndrome, is an organic problem, where something physically went wrong with the body. It isn't the result of harsh circumstances like PTSD (also a very real and crippling problem) or a "learned behavior" like certain phobias. This means we can put schizophrenics right next to victims of childhood polio who can no longer walk. The disabilities they face aren't their "fault," and any "bootstrappy" behavior we might expect from them is right off the table. These people, who certainly can still live full, meaningful and productive lives, are simply going to need some help and consideration.
It's really unlikely that their condition is going to make them brilliant crimefighters.
This is supposed to be where the "compassionate" part of "compassionate conservative" kicks in, but unfortunately, it's actually the case that proves "compassionate conservative" is an oxymoron. They say the problem with mental illness is that it's "invisible," that it's harder for people to empathize with a schizophrenic than say, the blind, because mental illness doesn't show obvious trauma the way that MS does.
I'd be more inclined to agree if my state's schools for the blind and deaf didn't keep getting their funding slashed time and again. I can tell you from first-hand experience that my State's plan for the handicapped, despite an awesome amount of empty spin and window dressing, basically boils down to three choices; Family, Homelessness or Prison.
The people of the United States used to unanimously agree on this, that we had an obligation to care for and support the infirm, that a basic benchmark of civilization was that we took care of people who could not care for themselves. We lost that conviction sometime around the time when Reagan turned mental patients into homeless people, and then used that collection of homeless people to demonize the poor.
So, I guess the question I'm asking here is aimed at my fellow citizens and especially fellow Christians who identitfy as "conservatives." How about this guy? Schizophrenia. An actual medical problem, no fault of his own. Able to lead a productive life if we just shield him a little from the Darwinian bloodbath.
Can we get your heart to bleed at least a little bit for him? Can we set up a filthy Socialist program to make sure "the least of these" gets the help they need, or are we going to sit back and cheer as Ayn Rand slashes his throat?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
This is true, and until it is corrected, you're almost ensuring that poor, but otherwise non-stupid people remain on welfare/disability/unemployment. If you make more or even the same amount on one of those than on a job, you're better off without the job. No bosses to please, no co workers to deal with. No commutes to make.
The sad thing is, as much as there are people out there who seem like they want to help other people with welfare or disability, these little discrepancies keep appearing that make me wonder if it is not a political calculation on one side to ensure that remaining on government aid remains much more attractive than getting a job. Those who rely on the government for support cannot realistically vote for someone who wants to take it away from them, even if it makes long term sense to do so.
While I know the problem is a serious one and its fully classified as a disability, it almost sounds as if you're using it as a crutch in the summary. What I'm trying to say is that no situation is ever going to be perfect, and everyone has some nag or another that wears on them whether it be a disability, family problems, or in my case severe OCD to the point of trichotillomania. I think that finding a manager who is understanding and willing to work with you is the best thing you're going to be able to do. If you demand they heed your every desire and consider everything else unacceptable, you aren't going to ever land a job in a positive work environment. This is something you're going to have to meet others in the middle on and try to focus on the positives rather than the negatives. Its all relative and everyone has to do this, whether its visible to the observer or not.
In short: try to not wait for the ideal scenario, meet people halfway. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be open about your issues, it just means you shouldn't lean on the issue as an "out" when a less-than-perfect scenario shows up. Give it a shot, you may surprise yourself.
And you post behind a handle which is most certainly not your real name, which means you aren't any different than those of us, save for the 30 seconds you spent registering an account on this site.
(Unless your name actually is "Mindscrew", in which case then hats off to you.)
No, he has the wrong sort of mental condition. You were thinking psychopath or sociopath. Both of those have no trouble at all with motivation or hard work... for their own goals. In fact, they tend to be very adept at getting themselves ahead, at least until someone gets wise to them anyway.
The poster is having trouble with motivation, which is one way to ensure that you don't make it as a politician.
What's the limit? Say, you have an allergy to anything more than 1 hour of work per week. Or a neurochemical disorder that means that without a constant pedicure and massage chair, you can't do any work? Or what about a permanent vegetative state? At what point can a company reasonably say, "sorry, but we just don't have a position for you?"
If the costs of the accommodations affect the bottom line in any significant way, it's irresponsible to hire someone who needs those accommodations, versus someone who doesn't. Now, if you're some rock start quadriplegic programmer, the cost/benefit might make sense for a personal assistant during work hours. But honestly, the case needs to be made that despite all the required accommodations, there is profit to be had by the company.
requiring degrees maybe discrimination.
As there some people who can do tech work / apprenticeships and can take tech school classes and or Community College but are not cut out for college / not college material.
Not all people can learn in a pure class room.
Solution: stop going to shitty frat-boy pubs.
Wow.
While we would all like to think most educated people would know better the fact is that it just isn't true. Educated people will not care. All they will care about is how the individuals presence in the workplace will make others feel. All it would take is for this person to be hired a coworker looking for a reason to find out about the psychosis and then sue the company citing them creating an unsafe workplace. While the fact may well be that OP may not be a threat to others or to self as there are many different types of schizophrenia and not all are violent.
I think rather than your perceived handicap, your time constraints for your work week may be your biggest challenge.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Think of it as working the problem from all sides. :-)
Anyway, here's where you, I and Bertrand Russell's ghost undoubtedly agree. I think it would be great if the Church would disengage from politics, rediscover humility, and go back to providing food, clothing, shelter and medicine to those in need. Yeah, I know it's not all you'd wish for, "last king and the entrails of the last priest" and all that, but surely we can agree that it's a start?
Now, apart from the flame war, what can we do for the poster? Can we find him the breathing room he medically needs, or do we literally kick him to the curb and then prison?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Better solution: don't go to places people go to hook up and/or get drunk if you're actually trying to socialize. Bars are shitty places to choose to hang out in.
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
Not to worry. They just work for cash.
Which helps 'starve the beast while bleeding it', so I'm all for it.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I'm not sure if I follow. If I were to be judged by some supernatural master of the universe, I'd hope that they'd understand the free market, and the idea that making unreasonable accommodations simply destroys wealth and well being.
In fact, I'd bet that any supernatural master of the universe already understands that, otherwise they'd have used their omnipotence to simply make everyone equal in outcome already.
Frankly, any omnipotent being who presides over a universe like our own, what with the pain and innocent suffering that does exist, should be worried that *we* will judge *them* when we finally meet up. I mean, what does the master of the universe say to the spirit soul of a young child who was raped, tortured and killed by some marauding band of child soldiers in africa? Or to some baby who dies some horrible death of vitamin deficiency thanks to vegan parents?
So eliminating gender discrimination is equivalent to forcing companies to employ people in permanent vegetative states, or to otherwise employ people that force them to fire a dozen other employees due to cost?
The law has its limits too, doesn't it?
Hats off to his dad. You won't believe how much shit Mom gave mine for naming me HornWumpus.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Government work. State or federal.
Government jobs usually require 37.5 hours of face time but 0 hours of work.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
The sad commentary on our times is that I can't tell if this is a troll or someone's legitimate belief...
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
I don't drink, you insensitive clod.
Why are you advocating that the only way to "help the employees adapt" is to get them drunk? how absurd!
I had to quit drinking couple of years ago(at under 30, pancreatitis). I loved drinking - it's a really special thing and a lot of the world ultimately revolves around it and if you don't participate you'll see 20% of what people really are and hear just 10% what they got to say. And I have to say, pretty much _ALL_ of industry socializing revolves around drinking in the end. Industry fairs? drinking. evening meetings? drinking. motivational building days? well, perhaps a token activity and then again drinking and drinking some more.
Pretty much all "bonuses" from the jobs are free booze and a place to drink it in(in case of Finland that's a sauna). I was on a gig once(consulting/rent-a-coder at a big firm) that lasted for almost a year under constant project changes and pressure(pressure that was plastered all over the fucking media no less) - and so they had this budget to reward us and what I got out of it was in practice free pizza and ramblings of some higher ups who were already drunk as fuck at 5 pm (still, a worthy experience I suspect in larger scheme of things, but I didn't feel too rewarded). Had I been drinking it would have probably been quite fun. Not participating in drinking shouldn't be a disability but damn if it isn't.
So now I just give bonus points if they bother to remember that I can't drink and at least try to make an effort to provide something entertaining if they try to entertain me - at least get some coca cola, candy, games, strippers - just arrange _something_ ffs.
I still go to bars occasionally, with colleagues and with friends. I stick to being by myself way too much to drop that totally and occasionally I'm curious about people and you just don't get to know otherwise - and for some funky reason I judge people by how they can behave when they're drunk, if they're douches or not - and for that you just have to see them drunk, you can't just hear about what they do when they're drunk - you have to see it, have to participate.
The point about the pub was though to get to know your employees - if your disability is the sympathic kind of then the original asker has to get his foot in the door and he might be good to go if he's okay with discussing it with his colleagues and getting shitfaced is a fast way to get to know people(for good or worse, since some people are just asshats).
though I suspect the 20-25 hours/week might be a stumbling block in getting a regular job. if he can give some good input to some projects, perhaps he should look for a startup that might not be so concerned about doing the full hours - they might even want it that way, and a startup because it's a small environment so it doesn't take forever to inform everyone that you are what you are.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
All employers that self insure. Many big corporations.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I too have schizophrenia and was hospitalized just before xmas. I work as a the sysadmin in an ecommerce company with around 100 servers, in an often stressful environment.
When i first started i had a lot of days sick and my boss took me to one side and said do you want to stay in the job? I thought about how much i love working with linux compared to the often extra hours i need in bed after my illness has affected my sleep and said yes. He replied well if you don't have another day off in six months i won't outsource your job (he knows he cant fire me due to discrimination).
OK so my boss is a dick but the choice is mine. A job i enjoy with people i mostly like, cool tech and going to bed early or sitting around collecting the pittance that is disabled living allowance, bored shitless with little self worth.
Yesterday I spent almost two hours in the pub with a couple of friends of mine. We had a great time. I didn't drink anything alcoholic since I had to ride my motorcycle home. It is not compulsory to drink alcohol in a pub.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
All depends on the cost, and whether or not it is voluntary. First, I'd assert that any sort of charity for schizophrenics should be voluntary, not involuntary taxes. Second, if the charity for schizophrenics made their gainful employment profitable, I'd support that, but if it was cheaper to simply have them stay at home, I'd argue that the charity should simply provide them with food and shelter.
The two take home points -> 1) do what is efficient, 2) forced charity is false charity
mpol, you say " I'm back at my volunteer job as web developer" and "for this year I'm quite happy where I am, but next year I might go searching for a salaried job again."
Just curious: who pays your bills?
Is it me?
With the way kids are growing up today, you'll fit right in with everyone else.
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
Totally disagree..
As a previous poster said.. avoid the university "sawdust on floor" type joints and the pickup joints. They are usually fairly obviously marked. Here in Atlantic Canada we have lots of nice cozy historic pubs. Great atmosphere, live music, good food.. it's a great place to unwind with the guys after work.
And when there is a game on, nothing beats a sports bar... again.. avoid the university crowd and it can be a great time.
Depending on your financial needs, have you thought about pursuing a different line of work?
It's certainly a different gig and level of stress (for example) bumping around in a truck in the forest as an environmental technician for 35 hours a week, as opposed to staring at monitors for 50 hours a week. A better-matched work environment might make the difference, enough that you can get close to FT hours but not feel the same amount of stress.
Depending on what country you live in, there might even be educational assistance to retrain in a different career
Good luck!
In fact, "Ensuring Domestric Tranquility" and "Promoting the General Welfare" is right there in the first line of the first page. Sort of like they though it might be important, you know?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Actually SSI isn't even $900 a month in most states - federal SSI is a little under $700, and then states add onto that some. Massachusetts maximum is under $900. SSI is about $750 a month if you're living with other people and paying a fair share of expenses in Massachusetts (a bit over $500 if you're not paying a fair share of expenses, a bit over $800 if you're living on your own).
SSDI is dependent on previous incomes, but that assumes you worked enough before becoming disabled and is where people get higher disability payments. With schizophrenia or autism this tends to be less frequent.
It was easy to get them shut down, but it wasn't to save money, it was to improve "care" such as it was. The problem is there was no care and nobody wanted these people. Especially not in neighborhood centers like the one that was across from a large neighborhood park.
OK, so we're arguing we shut the programs down without replacing them because we were trying to improve care. Have we considered the theory that the bureaucrats and politicians used the accusations of gross misconduct and malpractice as political cover to simply stop funding mental health treatment? Especially considering the stated intention of the 1980s GOP to dismantle the "Great Society" programs?
I see in your other posts where you argue that we just don't have enough to go around, and even if we did, government is entirely incompetent to deal with anything, so simply taxing the rich won't fix our problems. OK, fair enough. The problem is that our nation's experience in the 40s, 50s and 60s contradict your stance. If the government is as incompetent as you argue, then why on Earth do we trust them with national defense?
We've been cutting taxes for 30 years, and instead of boosting employment, wages and employment have been falling like rocks. How about we try this as an experiment? Let's put taxes back where Man-Who-Defeated-Hitler-Republican-President Dwight D. Eisenhower put them. We put the new funds to work. We then refund education at the same rates Nixon did. We re-instate Glass-Steagal. We rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, and then modernize it with the introduction of true fiber-to-the-curb. We lower the age of medicare coverage to 55 ... seconds before birth. :-)
Let's run that program for five years and see where we are.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Yep, it's a real shame the country was founded by Hippies like us. Franklin and his free love obsession, Jefferson and his miscegenation, Washington's stalwart stance against Authoritarianism...
Seriouly, you need to read the document you're flailing around. "We the People," "Form a more perfect Union," "Establish Justice," "Secure Domestic Tranquility," "promote the General Welfare," limit military spending to two years, decentralized power structures, and a firm argument against including the Bill of Rights for fear that some "blockhead in the future," might think these were the only rights we had and not a merely listing of some of the more obvious ones.
The only thing those Hippies were missing was rock-n-roll. Sex was plentiful and both Jefferson and Washington grew hemp (marijuana) on their farms. Can you imagine how awesome our nation might have been if Beethoven had been born a mere 30 years earlier to complete the "Sex, Drugs and Rock-n-Roll" trifecta?
We had a name for Conservatives in 1776, and that name was "Tory." Our founding fathers were "black bloc" anti-corporate terrorists that got blitzed at the local tavern, dressed up and painted their faces like savages and dumped corporate property into the water like they were "Fight Club" members smashing Starbucks.
You got no right to wrap yourself in a flag until you're ready to ride through the night warning the undesireables that the cops are on their way....
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
There's a difference between "I get tired and really don't want to work" and "I cannot drag myself out of bed or make food for myself and I'm losing the ability to take care of myself if I keep pushing myself to work when I shouldn't." I can't say for sure what this person deals with, but that difference is a meaningful one and is one that is common in disabilities with symptoms that include some that are common in schizophrenia. So, that might be what he's trying to say there.
Agreed, but the post isn't about people with mental problems, it's about people with disabilities in the workplace. And as my boss, you most certainly DO have to worry about my environment as a Deafie. You have to make sure that I don't have too many meetings, because it takes INTENSE mental focus to stay up to speed in crowds when I have to 1) figure out who's speaking, 2) focus on them and try to read their lips and foreign accents, 3) provide meaningful feedback.
But yes, you are absolutely correct in that it's a different ballgame hiring someone with a mental problem vs Deaf.
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
Before I got my cochlear implant, the work-place was rough: simple things that everyone else took for granted, like fundamental communication, was nearly impossible for me. An innocent question about how you're doing could be a major hassle, ending up in embarrassment for me.
True story: at a "division" meeting - I don't recall what level of the organization it was, but it was high up there and there were lots of people in attendance - I'd sat through what seemed like forever, not having a freakin' clue as to what was going on, what we were discussing, etc. I did catch when, near the end of the meeting, the CxO said, "Are there any more questions?" I said, "Yeah, can we leave, now?" I saw him chuckle, slightly, and he wrapped up the meeting after that, but I still cringe thinking about how rude I must have appeared. It certainly wasn't "professional."
Since I got my CI, it's almost like I'm "normal." I may have to ask someone to "Say that again," but I'm able to follow along, for the most part. I don't just sit there like the invisible man, and can participate in meetings, conversations, etc.
If I was a manager of someone with disabilities, having my perspective, I'd definitely go out of my way to find out how we could help them become productive, contributing members.
How is accommodating someone with a mental disability any different that dealing with someone with a physical disability?
If you have someone at work who is in a wheel chair, you would need to ensure there is access for them, everything they need to do their job can be reached from the chair, that in the event of an evacuation their location is rapidly determined and they are evacuated along with everyone else even though they can't take the stairs.
If a person is deaf you have to adapt meeting practices, phones, etc..., if a person is blind they may need screen readers or braille output devices. If a person is recovering from an injury they may be on reduced hours and reduced duties.
If you, as an employer, have decided that this person will add benefit to your company sufficient for them to be on the payroll (or volunteers list), then you have a responsibility to make it a safe workplace for them.
My husband has a medical condition which can result in him having fits and seizures. It can be triggered by stress and heat among other conditions. His work has ensured that the first aid officers on his floor know how to manage someone having a seizure. They have provided a standing fan near his desk so he can control the air flow if it's a warm day and he needs more breeze than the aircon is providing as a base. His coworkers have my number in their phones and visa-versa so that we can communicate if he has an episode. My boss is aware that I keep a chat window open to him during the day to monitor him (especially on bad days) so that I can call his boss if I notice him starting to have symptoms (aphasia is often a warning sign).
His boss has found him to be an excellent employee who occasionally has bad days. The good days outweigh the bad days. Lots of places wouldn't consider him knowing he is subject to seizures.
I get incredibly angry listening to policy wonks talking about getting the disabled back to work and off benefits. That's all well and good, but how do you get employers to take a chance on someone with a medical condition which may unpredictably affect their capacity to work. It's incredibly tempting to lie about it in the recruitment process, but it's likely to come up before your trial period is over - and then your boss has to assess that if you lied about that, what else may you be deceiving him about.
Most people with some kind of mental disability have triggers. Your responsibility as a boss is to provide them with a 'safe' environment where you minimise their exposure to trigger situations - for example, don't put them in a customer facing role, keep them dealing with internal staff who are familiar with some degree of routine. If you take on someone with a chronic medical condition (mental or physical) then you sign on for the possibility that they may have medical absences on potentially short notice.
But guess what. You sign on for the same thing with parents who may have to take time off to look after sick kids. Or people with partners or older parents or siblings who may have to take carers leave to look after other members of their family. Or singles who may have accidents, injuries or just a cold or flu at various times of the year.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
The whole point of the elastic clause is to enable us to keep forming that "more perfect union."
That's why we eliminated slavery, despite it being enshrined 3/5ths of the way into the document. That why we established the air force, despite no mention of it made in the Constitution.
But leaving all the nit-picking aside, here's the real issue:
Are we going to take care of our own or not?
Are we going to leave the weakest among us to die in the gutter? Are we going to stuff our prisons full of people with schizophrenia, autism and Down's Syndrome? Are we going to follow Sparta, and bash out the brains of defective children, or are we going to find our humanity and care for those who cannot care for themselves?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
I'm glad things worked out for you. My husband was misdiagnosed as epileptic for nearly a decade before his apnea was correctly diagnosed. According to his specialist he rates about a 3.5 on the 1-3 scale for severity. He has acquired amnesia covering several years from where his condition meant he couldn't form long term memories and often couldn't distinguish between short and long term memories and was hallucinating frequently.
I do most of the driving even though he never lost his license just to be sure that if there was an accident the insurance company can't weasel out of paying because he was behind the wheel - even though he would never drive if he was experiencing pre-seizure symptoms.
He spent nearly 5 years out of the fulltime workforce after he was recovering from his lowest point medically, and we have been blessed with friends in positions to recommend him for roles since getting back into full time work where the employers have known about his condition upfront and been fabulous about dealing with it. However any role he interviewed for where he mentioned it outside of interviews where he had a personal recommendation from an existing employee have resulted in a closed door.
As the spouse of someone with a chronic medical condition, I feel I have to disclose it when I interview because I periodically get calls asking me to take him home because he's collapsed at work and isn't competent to make his own way home unescorted.
He currently has a application support role with a large university. One of his coping mechanisms for memory issues is that he documents EVERYTHING to the nth degree. He is highly organised at work, because he needs familiarity. He is good at researching solutions and can follow instructions/read the manual. It makes him good at his job in a way some people who rely on memory and 'wing it' aren't.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
If anyone would be a good employer it would be a foundation that works in some aspect of mental health, whether it be support, advocacy, research erc.
I used to work across the street from one of the Lighthouse for the Blind organization and at least half of their staffers were visually impaired.
You can have a job where they get you while also doing some good work for other people who need it, and everyone wins.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
Because a lot of people in the US do not believe in mental illness.. they think it can be overcome with work or faith or something, or that it is simply moral weakness, or is just plain made up. It is still pretty stigmatized in a way physical illness isn't, and physical illness is still pretty stigmatized.
Just because you are at a PUB doesnt mean you are forced to get drunk. And a good thing too, since most psychiatric meds don't mix well with alcohol.
I actually had my prodrome and then psychosis while working and I managed to keep my job through that period (software development), but I had some advantages. Firstly I'll acknowledge good insight due to a family history of mental illness, symptoms that were relatively manageable for me and it didn't take that long for me to seek treatment. Apart from that, my job involves a lot of work for government, so things tend to be seasonal (more work around budget time); this helped because it meant that I had some time that was a lot more relaxed, while still having some pressure put on me occasionally, which helped a lot with managing motivation and keeping me focused. I work from home, have flexible hours and only have to see clients and colleagues semi-regularly; this was good because it made it so I could fit things into my periods of peak energy/focus and when I was least likely to experience symptoms (my most frequent times are in the morning after getting up and at night). So yeah, I would say time and workload management are some of the biggest factors.
Working actually helped me a lot, because the kind of work I was doing required a lot of logical/critical thinking and it kept my mind sharper than it would've been if I was doing nothing. Your critical and logical faculties are actually the key to managing psychotic symptoms (along with maintaining your physical health, forcing yourself to socialise and a good psychiatrist that helps you find the right dosage/medication), because this is what keeps your mind pointed in the right direction. In fact, the worst part of the illness for me was the cognitive decline and trouble focusing that came with the illness (I could feel my focus slipping and my mind becoming more disordered, things stopped making sense so easily) and the extra mental power that had to be dedicated towards dealing with symptoms. This was worse for me than the positive symptoms, day night reversal or other negative symptoms.
The other big thing is that the longer you receive treatment and the more you take care of yourself by exercising, eating well (most of the time), not drinking too much (most of the time), taking regularly holidays, socialising and everything else that helps, the healthier you'll be and the easier things will become. Personally, I am at the stage where in bursts of a few weeks or even months, I can work at the levels I could pre-psychosis. But the important thing is that I need downtime, not necessarily where I'm not working, but times where I'm not working as hard or under as much pressure.
Of the people I work with, only one knows about my condition and that's because we're related. If I wasn't good at managing my symptoms, more people would need to know.
Bars are shitty places to choose to hang out in.
Bars, yes. Pubs, no.
Yes. And I commented "I can't say for sure what this person deals with."
Sure, he might just be lazy. I don't know this person. I know other people with schizophrenia and know that they'd say similar statements and do deal with what I said. I have some of the symptoms that are common negative symptoms as part of my autism. But what I've seen hasn't said for sure that he is, and what people have been saying have been showing that they don't understand the possibility of it not being all being lazy. Likely he's lazy in the sense of not putting more of his capabilities in than abled people do in their 40-60 hour work weeks, like some disabled people will and like we are expected to. Whether this is acceptable or not people can decide on their own.
I've done a bit of research here and there. There is a widespread belief in what I'll just call God, and a human tendency to have certain experiences that imply the existence of such God, as well as a certain set of beliefs about God. This is apparently what inspires religion. The evidence is consistent both with an evolutionary quirk in the human brain that causes such experiences, and with God being real and rather imprecisely perceived on occasion.
I've seen approximately no evidence that such a God cares much about optimizing the economy for wealth generation, and lots of evidence that such a God cares about taking care of the weak and sick.
Your second and third paragraphs assume omnipotence, which I don't think is necessarily implied by religious experiences, and your second ignores the possibility that a hypothetical God might want a process, not an outcome.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Wouldn't an all powerful being, that is asserted to be "good", simply provide for the weak and sick by making them not weak and sick through their supernatural powers? Heck, even if you're not talking about omnipotence, but just oh, say power over most of the physical nature of the universe, don't you think even a minor deity could choose to cure all ills and infirmities?
My point exactly. And thus far, the evidence shows that the process God has chosen is the ultimate in laissez faire economics.
So, you've really got two choices:
1) God is good, but impotent
2) God is omnipotent, but not good
Seeing as most folk would argue that God must be good, I guess the real question is about just how impotent our resident deity is.
Your a geek. Can't you run a speech recognition package and read the conversation on screen? At least have it running and be able to back read. Going to be problems with people talking over each other, but that has to be a problem anyhow.
Also can't you just sit there and not contribute, like most people in most meetings?
I'm reminded of a Red Green predicament. 'Q: I was sitting there minding my own business, reading my paper and drinking my coffee when my wife shut up and looked at me. I realized she had just asked me a question. What should I do? A: restart your last mild fight.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Assuming your a Fin you have to realize you live in the most soused nation on earth. You guys drink Ruskys under the table for fucks sake.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I'm in a wheelchair. Unfortunately I have to work from home 2 days a week and 3 in office. The office was fully accessible. Some time ago I've joined VMware Bulgaria. Still I was fired because my manager wanted 100% presence in the office. So beware of your manager :)