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Intel CEO Tells Staff Windows 8 Is Being Released Prematurely
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from Geek.com: "Intel CEO Paul Otellini may be getting an angry phone call from Steve Ballmer today after it was revealed he told staff in Taiwan Windows 8 isn't ready for release. Otellini's comments were made at an internal meeting in Taipai, and he must have naively thought they would never become public knowledge. We don't know if he went into detail about what exactly is unfinished about Windows 8, but others have commented about a lack of reliable driver support and supporting applications. For many who have picked up previous versions of the Windows desktop OS early, this probably isn't coming as a surprise."
Aero looks much, much nicer than a flat rectangle that is one color. It's too bad that the window chrome got bashed so bad. Of course a likely reason for it is that tablets will run primarily on battery and Aero might be a drain on that.
Correct. It should be spelled Taibei.
Well, the saying "the line between genius and insanity is thin" can probably be modified slightly here to something like "the line between awesome and steaming-pile-of-frustrating-monkey-shit is thin".
Then your statement makes more sense.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Yes, but have you used it on a computer?
What he thought of Vista when that was released. Microsoft have learned from their past mistakes. It's a good OS, The only major sub-system rewrite has been audio, and driver support is looking pretty good now. I've certainly not had any problems on my 3 machines.
or just awsomely bad.
I've been testing Windows 8 for some while and I must say it's borderline awesome to use.
Are you using a computer or smart phone?
Apparently the Start Menu isn't working yet. I can't even find the Start Button.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Why were you beta testing on a production machine?
Already got your monthly astroturf paycheck?
S.B, would like to thank you for licking his albanian car. (TopGear UK viewers will know what I mean)
>> the operating system lacks a wide range of robust applications
Kudos to Microsoft for not making this a false chicken-and-egg problem. The OS needs to get out there so developers will target it. In fact, any developer worth his paycheck has probably been playing with the OS and maybe even Visual Studio 2012 for months.
>> PC makers haven’t had enough time to work out kinks with so-called drivers, which connect software to such hardware as printers
On nos - HP isn't going to have enough time to gen up its usual 500MB driver install for Windows 8?
We've already flipped half our Windows desktops and laptops to Windows 8. Except for a utility to put the start menu button back, we're not looking back.
Has windows ever been released with full driver support? Windows 7 still has driver issues, XP had driver issues for years etc.... I'm not sure what his point was if he mentioned driver support.
"...I was beta testing the release client."
You don't say...
Any caricature is bound to be inaccurate to actual individuals contained within it. Yes, I read Slashdot, yes, I run Linux - typing this on that right now, and yes, sitting right next to me is my other machine which is running Windows 7. Linux is for everything but games, and Windows 7 is for games. I also happen to have an aesthetic streak and like my systems to look good. Custom Xfce theme that looks good on Linux and Aero looks good on Windows 7. I don't fit into the "slashdotter" mold that you have roughly sketched out in your own mind.
This is not news. Microsoft have ALWAYS released new OSes prematurely. Users basically beta test the OS, and then MS goes on an ad nauseum patch release cycle for bugs that have been found. I recall that it took XP at least 2 to 3 years before it was solid. And, let's not forget Vista. That was nothing else than a stop-gap release of underperforming beta software.
An angry phone call? Please.
When are OEMs going to finally realize that this isnt the year 2000 anymore, and that microsoft needs the OEMs more than the OEMs need microsoft? Windows is the dominant OS on a platform that is no longer central to a user's computing experience. Hardware, in the form of tablets and mobile phones, has made computing ubiquitous. People are buying computing devices without a Windows operating system.
Just wait Ballmer, you can't dish it out anymore. The market is going to give it to you. Hard. In a very uncomfortable place.
Didn't people learn anything from Windows Vista?
No sig today...
Windows 8 will be ready when SP1 comes out.
A release of Windows not being ready has never stopped Microsoft from releasing it. Nor has it stopped the fools who jump on every beta they put out. I participate on a video forum at another site and every beta that comes out, we have members who jump on it and then bitch about how various things don't work. That doesn't ever stop from them doing the same thing over and over every time a new beta comes out. And the market has never punished Microsoft for any of its mistakes so even if Win 8 is as big of a disaster as I think it will be, it won't matter.
In all the Slashdot articles trashing windows 8, the one and only criticism ever brought up here is of Metro and the start menu. Windows 8 is stable, uses minimal resources, performs well, features a variety of real improvements to the UI and workflow, is secure, is scalable to hardware even 7 years old (at least), is compatible with almost all software available for Windows 7, is compatible with almost all drivers for Windows 7... for almost all tangible measures of the ability of an operating sytem, it's ready, and has been for a long time. Public betas and pre-releases have been available for over a year now, including a free RTM evaluation, so we've all been free to test and evaluate it on our own machines. And still the *only* complaint anyone here (a place where Microsoft is derided at every turn for stability, performance, and security) ever manages to come up with is their own opinion on launcher preferences. If that's the worst you can come up with for Windows 8, I'd say it's good to go.
Driver support ALWAYS lags because some companies are lazy. The big guys, Intel, AMD, nVidia, all seem to have drivers out on time and Windows 8 is no exception. You can get 8 drivers from them, life is good. However more specialty companies often lag badly. There's no Windows 8 drivers for any pro audio interfaces I can find, but that's no surprise I remember that it took M-Audio the better part of a year for Windows 7.
There's just never going to be good driver support for a new OS on account of companies not wanting to bother. Even if the drivers don't need any changes, just testing and re-certification it can take time or just not happen at all.
Ugg... stop it with the shill accounts, Microsoft. They're too transparent for anyone to take seriously.
Well, it seems that Microsoft didn't.
which is totally what she said
Romney, I thought I told you to get off the computer and get Ohio back in your pocket! Those jobs won't outsource themselves you know!
They didn't learn anything from either Vista and Millenium so they will probably not learn much from 8 too.
They don't let you use forks and knives when you eat, do they?
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Its like windows vista... Its a "lets dip our feet in the water" sort of pull.
I would say its *very* preemptive to release it so shortly after people have just gotten used to Win7 and Win2008 R2. After playing with win8 and win2012, there's no way I can see either as any sort of viable OS. Trying to get people to use either is a very long jump - maybe its a long jump to see how much win8 will be used on tablets.
Win2012 is, to me, a disaster. There's no start button - instead you must mouse down to pixel 0,0 where there's nothing to indicate "hey - start button here" and when you do discover it, its like being given a camaro, only to discover that the V-8 has been pulled out and rigged with a 4 cylinder. There's also another hidden bar for "charms." Why all the hiding?
Hyper-V has improved a little, and there are some administrative functionality that, if you know how to get to, might be useful...
I just think its too soon - people are comfortable with Win7 and more importantly, have gotten comfortable with Win2008 R2, and how to manage each. Big corps are just now adopting Win7, and people tend to take their "work" home with them. They have gotten comfortable with the new OS, and IT people are stubborn.
And, lets face it - VMWare beat Microsoft to the VM punch, and that's where most small and medium, and especially large enterprises. Sure Win2012 is now manageable by one workstation, but we've been managing servers with RDP and VMware's native console passthrough for a long time.
I'm sure lots of other people have their opinions, so lets see those.
For the record, it's spelled Taipei, not Taipai.
That happens on beta tests, if you don't want to take the risk, get the hell over it.
That's one reason I only beta tested it on a VM.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Inventing a throw-a-chair-over-the-telephone device.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
... Don't install Windows Vista?
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Just install classic shell from sourceforge and be done with it. I know it's a piece of crap but for support people it's a needed evil to learn this new garbage in order to keep a job.
He knew perfectly well it would be leaked.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Not ready yet? Gold masters have been made?
DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT AT RELEASE DATE!
And I can say it's great, and it's terrible.
The great -- it's really, really fast. Boot times are under 10 seconds to completely usable, apps launch fast, and IE10 is really not as bad as I thought it might be. The snapping of windows to side by side and whatever work really, really well, and I find myself more productive by seeing my email snapped to the side and then browsing or whatever.
The bad -- the experience is really jarring. Most of my time is spent in the "desktop" which is a complete carryover from Windows 7. I would have thought that Microsoft would have taken the effort to re-skin that in a way better than they have (see here: http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2822891/windows-desktop-ui-concept), but they didn't. It's a complete lack of effort. Not to mention, that things like battery life remaining, the time, are hidden into the OS and don't make appearances anywhere.
The ugly -- Media Center. Fuck man, that's probably the best app in Windows, and could really kick the crap out of the Apple TV or Google TV if it was properly developed. With Windows 8's API structure there could be a lot of integration here, making media center the "hub" for entertainment on the PC. So if you wanted Netflix, or Amazon, or whatever - you'd have to integrate it into Media Center. But they just booted it out because people weren't using it. Of course they weren't... when you treat it like a third rate product, it's going to get third rate attention.
Also ugly -- control panel. There are two of them in the OS. One is the 'desktop' version which remains unchanged from Windows 7, and then there's the Metro one that lets you work on settings for "Metro". Additionally multi monitor support with "hot spots" is a nightmare. I have two monitors and at work, I have 3. Trying to get into the bottom right or left to click on the start menu is extremely difficult, and in a remote desktop window, even harder. You can't use shortcut keys in remote desktop, but I've gotten used to using Windows Key + C for the charms bar, but realistically it's annoying.
All in all it's a mixed bag. Microsoft needs to step up development to complete the UI experience because right now it's a joke. The OS itself is fundamentally better too, in terms of speed, stability, resource usage, sleep/hibernate, etc. However nobody's going to care if it acts like a fucked up monster to play with. Most people will adapt, as they always do, and it's not terribly hard to get used to. But if you want to compete in a world of where Apple makes design a #1 priority, and people VALUE that, then you have to fix the UI experience in Windows. It's not all about usability.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
The only problem is that Intel's platform to support Windows 8 in a tablet platform is pre-mature. Smashing desktop or laptop CPU's into a tablet will probably result in poor battery and crippled performance and Intel is still struggling to find a foothold in the mobile CPU market. Intel is going to be put front and center in direct comparisons with iPad and Android tablets and even ARM based Windows RT tablets and I think Intel is expecting unfavorable comparisons because Microsoft is forcing Intel into a market they are not quite ready to participate in. As Intel is suffering considerable loss in the post-PC era, any lack of consumer confidence in their ability to produce a good tablet platform will result in significant decline in Intel's market share.
Intel is spreading FUD to slow the adoption of Windows 8 while they struggle to prepare a mobile CPU platform. This speaks of a company that is lacking in confidence and perhaps has jumped the shark and are unable to compete in the post-PC era. Windows 8 may just shine a light on how slowly Intel has moved towards a mobile platform and obviously Intel is afraid of this.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Windows 8 Tablets with Intel processors will not arrive this year, unlike the ARM-based RT tablets due to surface before this year's holiday purchase season.
The marketing fire for Windows 8 will hotly blaze but most of the focus will be its advantage as a touch based tablet interface. You won't see the Today show demoing a mouse based computer for the masses.
Perhaps Otellini doesn't want market interest to be piqued until Intel tablets can benefit? Perhaps he's just positioning any teething pains of moving to this new OS to be blamed on the ARM cores? Certainly Intel doesn't lose the business of folks who choose to stick with mouse based Windows while biding their time.
I have no doubt there will be plenty of teething pains with Windows 8 (a major GUI inert ace change affects both user expectations and code integrity), but just remember that Intel has gains to be made by casting FUD around the early, non-Intel tablet release of Windows 8, too.
Haha you use windows
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
It has some definite elements of awesome, but it's interface is such a turd that it's hard to look past that. I've been developing a Windows 8 class for Support staff. There's been so many times when I exclaim "Cool! That should have been in Win7". Then I have to go back to that duct-taped construction paper and glue start screen and the mystique fades away. After using it for a few weeks, I don't hate it as much as when I started, but I still wouldn't load it on my personal machine.
There may be no "I" in team, but there's also no "F" in way.
until SP1.
The first rule of Windows Vista is: You do not install Windows Vista.
The second rule of Windows Vista is: You DO NOT install Windows Vista.
n fact, any developer worth his paycheck has probably been playing with the OS and maybe even Visual Studio 2012 for months.
Because all developers are windows developers?
Wow, so you think you are living the good life because you can afford a Mac, and considering how you are bragging about it I take it that you can barely afford a Mac and it is the pinnacle of your life.
Congratulations, your life is all downhill from here so you might want to just kill yourself now while you are happy.
I agree and more importantly solving the chicken and egg problem for multiple input types. Between hardware, OS and applications someone had to go first. I think Windows 8 is exciting with where Microsoft is trying to lead.
The sky is blue, bears crap in the woods, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It's not like he's revealing something unusual for Microsoft. When has a Windows OS release ever been fully baked?
I consider myself a windows power user that uses its features and shortcuts as much as possible because I like a responsive OS. Windows 7 had it all.. fast stable and snappy. Now I've been using windows 8 rtm for some time and it's even faster. I don't get all this whining about metro ui. Just remove all metro apps and you are good to go. Same ol windows.. just a fullscreen start menu. Mine has a desktop shortcut and weather widget. That's it. And it not that bad anyway. Search works way faster. OS boots WAAY faster on a normal HDD (pretty much the same on an SSD). I do a lot of web development in php, .net with several DBs including mysql, postgres, sql server and everything works seamlessly. I just don't get everybody complaining as you are being forced to use the metro ui with everything. It's just a god damn "eye candy" with some adjustments for touch devices. Don't like it, don't use it... it's not like a fullscreen start menu with lots of personalization screws up your experience with the OS.
It seems to me that almost everybody who's bashing windows 8 or haven't used it or are simply doing it for the lulz.
Get over it, it's a good and stable OS and it's here to stay. And it has nothing to do with Vista.. i had to suffer with it a lot.
Fucking a fat girl is like riding a scooter... it's fun 'til someone sees you.
No, not all developers are worth their paychecks. Ooooh! Burn!
A good deal of Windows 7 drivers work, however most companies aren't updating their support for 8 yet.
I realize it isn't an issue for geeks but it is for normal users. They go and have a look at what their hardware supports, don't see Windows 8, and say "Oh it won't work."
I also get rather annoyed since it is just laziness on the part of hardware companies. MS releases test builds of Windows plenty early. That is how the companies I listed manage to have Windows 8 drivers out. There really isn't an excuse for not having support. They are just lazy about it
Some companies purposely don't do new drivers, to try and make people buy new hardware. HP is famous for that one.
something about a Microsoft and a premature release. I'm sure there's an antiquated internetjoke in there somewhere.
A little too obvious. Is anyone anti-shilling yet?
Yeah, the ones who work on windows and windows software.
I'm a Linux user and from what I've seen about Win8 and by running the release preview on a virtual machine... it looks pretty nice for tablets and smartphones. So much that I'm probably getting a Nokia with Win8 as my next phone.
What I don't get is why they don't provide the same experience level of the Win7 desktop environment to desktop/laptop users. Just keep it there and let people switch between then. Sure, some apps will be for the new Metro interface.. others will be exclusive for the desktop interface (Photoshop and stuff?) but whatever... provide users with a decent migration path.
I don't get why they have to go GNOME3 on this....
none
Well, most OS's include their own hardware drivers, so it's microsoft's fault for not providing any drivers, and forcing you to use third party drivers.
Also, aren't the nvidia drivers MS-certified?
What types of users and how many? How much training was needed?
Pretty lame nobody at MicroSoft thought to register an earlier UID.
We've already flipped half our Windows desktops and laptops to Windows 8. Except for a utility to put the start menu button back, we're not looking back.
I'm guessing that's probably a total of 1-2 machines . . .
Funny- it's Intel's driver for my PRO/1000 GT that's been occasionally causing my desktop to crash and reset when going into standby, according to the minidumps. Maybe it's just Intel that's not ready for Windows 8? Win8 Pro RTM x64 from MSDNAA.
>>> In fact, any developer worth his paycheck has probably been playing with the OS and maybe even Visual Studio 2012 for months.
Uhh no. Microsoft isn't the only platform in the world you know. Its not even the most popular platform in the sw development jobs market any more.
Many developers never use Microsoft platforms at all, so dont even notice Windows 8, much less want to waste time learning it. Personally I actively avoid development jobs for any Microsoft platform as its always been a relatively bad experience.
Been running the RTM version for over a month on reasonably current hardware machines from multiple vendors, desktop, laptop, tablet/laptop hybrids. Zero instability, zero driver issues, everything works. You can bitch all you want about the metro UI, and the disconnected nature of dekstop to metro switching. Some or much of that bitching is completely and absolutely justified and I agree justified. But the OS is objectively better in a lot of other areas than Win7. If you don't like it, don't buy it, the market will make it's opinion known. But younger users more accustomed to iPhone or Android when exposed to Win8 next to some of it's competitiors in my experience have 100% unamimously thought that Win8 is "cool" and expressed a real interst in running it on at least touch enabled hardware. But inflating UI bitching into some larger issue with the OS is just immature trolling. Much like what we see every time a Linux distribution switches out the default GUI.
no, it should be spelled like this
Use of the words "good", "bad" or "evil" is almost invariably the result of oversimplification.
u jelly bro?
Care to give some big examples? Im currently at a loss as to why I would stick Win8 on my work laptop, which I use for testing, coding, documentation, virtualization.
If there are useful workflow / productivity improvements, Id love to know about em; so far all I got was "you need to relearn how you relate to your desktop" which isnt terribly appealing.
The interesting thing about the media center is that in my windows 7.5 phone is is exactaly like this, a hub to all media prograns.
I like metro and can understand why MS don't made a kick ass metro media center.
Naw, it's just funny when someone thinks they are better than someone all because of an item they went to a store and bought.
3rd Rule of Vista: If a driver says "stop", times out, or blue screens the up-time is over.
Fear is the mind killer.
This just in... Water is wet.
I've been testing Windows 8 for some while and I must say it's borderline awesome to use.
That's because you are a troll who created a brand new account exactly to write that comment.
I think the Start Menu in Windows 8 is especially hilarious. Microsoft redid the Start menu in Vista, and people complained. Then they ran some surveys and found people don't use the Start menu anymore.
So they took it out completely. Brilliant, isn't it?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Let me clarify (and you're right, I should have been more clear up front): When using the Pinyin romanization system, it should be spelled Taibei.
Not sure what this is about, but after using Windows 8 for over 5 months now I don't see anything that is of concern. Everything that worked on Windows 7 work on Windows 8 without any issues. The new UI is good, and overall the OS is very snappy and quick performer. All that complains about learning curve are wrong, pick the basics in 5 minutes and you are done. All my machines run RTM now,It is a must upgrade for all Windows users for sure. Intel always had power issues to manage, which are more critical on tablets. That may be one of the areas of concern, but it has nothing to do with PC users.
It sure is...if your screen is 1366x768 or less, and if its touch enabled. Everywhere else? Its sucks big hairy balls. I could list all the royal PITA moments I had with that OS but why bother when this article appropriately entitled Windows 8, yes its THAT bad sums it up better than I ever could. the only thing I'd add is that their "desktop mode" is frankly a crippled ribbon happy joke compared to the feature rich desktop of Windows 7.
So while I'll buy a couple of copies, simply because at $40 a piece for Win 8 Pro they are giving it away and I hope either Start8 or Classic Shell will give me an ersatz Win 7 Pro for $40 I can say if they offered both Win 7 and Win 8 at the same price? I doubt seriously they'd get enough takers of Win 8 to even bother. Yes its THAT bad.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Back when vista was released, intel was co-releasing core2duo and core2quad desktop chips
Back when win7 was released, intel was co-releasing the core-i7 chips
From intel's point of view, microsoft is 'jumping-the-gun'. Haswell isn't going to be released until summer and microsoft is gearing up for a christmas refresh, so they can't draft any Win8 refresh pull when haswell becomes available.
I've been using it for maybe a month since trying it and being really impressed with the startup times. I've finished installing everything I used on win7 and more (vs2012 for example) and it's retaining it's impressive speed.
I haven't tried multi monitor yet, but I had thought about that problem, metro really is pretty awful, I don't mind it when I tap the windows key and start typing to find the program I want, but I don't use it for anything else, and it annoys me if something causes it to come up.
The only real problem I've had is sometimes that search box doesn't clear.
so
[winkey] ecl (enter) (eclipse)
[winkey] note (enter) (notepad++)
and it ends up with "eclnote" which doesn't hit any search results.
how the hell did that get through beta testing?? admittedly it's sporadic, but seriously why is the search box not cleared every time metro pops up?
They're idiots. People DO use the start menu, they just don't use it very often, but when they need it, they want it to work like they expect.
On my car, when I check the oil, it's really simple: there's a dipstick right in the front when I open the hood. Do I check the oil often? Certainly not. But when I do, I know how to do it, and it's simple; I don't want some car company coming up with some weird-ass procedure for checking the oil just because I don't do it every day.
As of today, Google has reached 97% of Microsoft's market cap. After Google passes Microsoft IBM won't be far behind. Ballmer effect. Thanks Steve.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Yeah, that's what all the downscale people say. I provide a lot of value to society and so I am rewarded for my contributions. Deal with it, nerd.
Hmmm... tried that. Clears for me. I'm using Ultimate build 9200.
I have used it on several, I'll be happy to list specs and give a review of each.
First up is a EEE E350 netbook, here? It is actually okay. Not great, but its okay, as with the bobcat dual core and a 12 inch screen you're not gonna run more than one app at a time and their hack boot (hybrid sleep) actually shaves about 20% off the boot time. Can't tell any difference on battery life, still around 5 hours watching videos or a little over 6 surfing, not bad but not really any different than what I was seeing on 7 as far as battery life.
Next up my test for older systems, a Pentium 4 3.6GHz with HT box I had sitting in the corner KVM'd into my shop monitor which is a 1600x900 20 inch...yuck. Oh the performance was okay, it again booted a little faster than Win 7 but the constant switching between metro and desktop sucked and the metro UI just doesn't work well on a large screen, especially once you go past around 12 programs installed. The whole thing quickly fills up to become this large multi-page mess.
Finally we have my personal system, an AMD 6 core on a 22 inch 1600x900 monitor...again with the yuck, I like to game on this as it has 8Gb of RAM and an HD4850 GPU and once i started loading up my games again metro became seriously messy, I'm the kind that don't allow more than a couple of icons on my desktop and having this huge shotgun blast of a start screen was irritating. Again the hybrid boot was a little faster but seeing as I only turn this system off when its storming doesn't really sway my opinion and the Metro apps just suck, no way to easily multitask and there was some I even had to use Task Manager to kill because they just didn't want to stop, really beta quality crap which considering this was RP didn't make me feel good about it.
Final verdict? the only one where it felt like the equal of Win 7 was on the netbook, which considering its roughly the same size as a large tablet shouldn't be surprising. I said it before and I'll say it again, Win 8 is a tablet and cell phone OS that has been shoehorned by MSFT onto the desktop to try to get people "used" to their tablet UI in the hopes people will buy it over Android and iPad. Will it work? I seriously doubt it, but thankfully Win 7 is supported until 2020 so we have plenty of time to kick back and see how Win 9 comes out. Hopefully MSFT will do as reviewers have suggested and just split metro off for tablets and leave Win 9 with a functional desktop UI instead of this mish mash.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Replace "Windows" with "" and you wouldn't claim that the poster was a shill.
You are showing your massive biases.
We will serve no WINE before it's time.
It's time, gentlemen.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Then they ran some surveys and found people don't use the Start menu anymore. So they took it out completely. Brilliant, isn't it?
Maybe, but what they just did was to transform it into a clunky full screen version. Not very brilliant solution, that.
I've been testing Windows 8 for some while and I must say it's borderline awesome to use.
I agree.
It's the best thing since Microsoft B.O.B.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
How did it happen? It's very rare that software destroys hardware.
Insightful? For a post that just says "Ur a shill!" with ZERO proof? Really? If one shows evidence of shilling, such as linking to that person's UID showing a pattern of posts all putting the same buzzword bingo posts for company X or against company Y? then YES, pointing out that they could be a shill or a troll is warranted and insightful. But I have to agree with The Reg which has banned posts that say shill without proof, as it always ends up "You don't like the things I like so u must be teh shill!" which is just pointless.
Hell maybe the guy really LIKES Windows 8, ever think of that? I knew a guy that liked WinME, met a nice little old lady that just loves her WinVista laptop, hell I've met people who actually enjoy sitting through "The Room" and don't see why "The Phantom Menace" is all that awful. Doesn't mean those are good products, just means in a large enough group you'll find somebody that will like it, no matter whether everyone else thinks it sucked. I personally like a nice thin layer of mashed potatoes on a meat lovers pizza, it gives a nice creamy texture while absorbing the flavor of the sauce, it just means we all have differing tastes.
One shouldn't raise the shill card unless they have something other than "U like what I no like!" as "proof" of shilling.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Developers should refuse paid work based on ideology? Some of us have families to support and don't just live on the MIT campus in a tent after they kicked us out of our office.
The OS needs to get out there so developers will target it. In fact, any developer worth his paycheck has probably been playing with the OS and maybe even Visual Studio 2012 for months.
Any developer worth their paycheck does not care about any particular operating system.
I think that, with Intel recently announcing that it will be making processors that only work with Windows (and by sheer coincidence, AMD making a similar announcement as well), ol' Steve-O will find a way to forgive him.
-a.d.-
I'm Erwin Schrodinger and I approve of this message, and I do not approve of this message!
I must be especially tolerant of it for some reason. I have been using the release preview on a 1920x1080 desktop for a while now, and I don't miss 7 at all. I guess my interaction with the start menu has always been minimal, relying on the search function almost 100% of the time. That still works fine for me. I haven't noticed any trouble in using the desktop interface either, and I appreciate the changes to explorer.
I would say that web application dev with MS tools can be really nice... as long as you understand web development, and how html/css/js work together... Most .Net web devs struggle to get the square peg of their third party commercial ui library into the round opening of the rest of their web app.
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
When is it ever ready? Pre SP1 always feels like beta to me (when it comes to non-server OSs from Microsoft.)
The shills create a new account for each story and they tend to drop that account rather fast.
For proof, check the posting history of the person being accused of being a shill.
He has only posted in this story and that account will never be used again.
Also he posted the very minute that the story was available to post in even though that account is not a subscriber.
This is the common MO of shills on /. , new account, only posts in this one story, first post at the same time story was available to post in. You see that situation and you will know that that person is a shill.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
3rd Rule of Vista: If a driver says "stop", times out, or blue screens the up-time is over.
But then you wouldn't have listened to the first two rules.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
I spotted a typo: that's spelled "awful," not "awesome."
Free Martian Whores!
I think the desktop is meant to be a carryover from Win 7. I think the idea is that Win32 becomes a legacy environment feeling more and more like a guest operating system on Metro. This pushes application developers towards supporting Metro directly.
I believe it is a flaw in the Windows 8 power management schema, because of how the incident occurred. When I first installed Windows 8 I noticed shortly after that my monitor would go to sleep after 5 minutes regardless of what the power management settings, bios settings, or any other settings were set to. I posted to the Windows 8 forum, followed all the suggestions by the forum moderators, and none of them fixed the issue. A couple of days later my computer shut itself off out of no-where, which had never happened before with this box, but I figured that is Windows for ya. I powered it back on, and it shut itself right back off again. So, I opened the case up and went to check things out. When I checked to make sure the video card was seated properly it was so hot that it burned me. So, I unplugged the monitor from the video card, put a glove on that I keep close by for when I am soldering, and unseated the video card. Then I plugged the monitor in to my on-board card and powered my machine back up. After that I had no issues with anything including the monitor time-out issue. Oh and by the way. The ticket that was created about my issue is still open on the Windows 8 forum so, as far as I know this issue has not been fixed.
it does most of the time, I can't find a way of causing it, it just happens a few times a day at least.
x64 pro Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200] from msdna
There are people in my workplace that refuse to use the start menu and instead get people with a clue to pre-fill their screens with icons. They then spend 30 seconds or so at a time trying to find the right icon on their desktop each time they go to start something.
I wouldn't be able to come up with any big examples, but there are small things like that new copy dialog with pause/resume, or the fact that it can now stretch the taskbar across several displays. Ribbon in Explorer is actually pretty handy, at least compared to Vista/7 toolbars.
Technical feature wise, the only big thing I can think of is the ability to run Hyper-V on it (on a client OS version, as opposed to a server).
Screen resolution actually doesn't matter, only physical screen size and form factor do. I mean, if it's a 10" tablet running at 1920x1200, it's not really any different from the same tablet running at 1366x768.
But don't you see that THAT is also evidence of shilling and would thus constitute the basic proof which I dared to get modded down for asking for?
Lets be honest, show me ONE person, just one mind you, that went to all the trouble to make an account at some forum and made only ONE post? You can't because other than shills that doesn't happen. I remember why I quit lurking and made an account, there was an argument about file systems of all things and I must have put in 5 posts on that thread within 30 minutes, just going back and forth arguing the merits of various systems for various roles. Now THAT is how someone normally makes an account, because there is a subject they feel passion for being discussed or some topic on which they believe their view has some merit and they will be placing more than one post arguing it.
So while you deserve your informative mod for pointing out their MO I would argue that if someone wanted to scream "shill!" they should have at least linked to his UID because that very MO makes a true shill easy to spot. On the other hand I've seen far too many times someone try to be shut down by the peanut gallery screaming "U R teh Shill!" when a simple click on their UID would see their history of posting various comments on various topics so all that is proven is the person has a view going against groupthink. As I said I've met people that liked Vista and WinME, doesn't make them good OSes, just means there is always somebody that will like a product if you put enough people together.
That is why I think like The Reg that /. should ban posts that just scream "shill!" without a shred of proof. Link to their UID, if its only the one post? there is your evidence, if they only post buzzword bingo on posts about one company? there is your evidence. hell its not like actual shills are hard to spot even without the screams, their posts read like buzzword bingo of marketing drones, not how ordinary people talk.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
HP driver support for older hardware that is still viable is pathetic. I cannot get a working NVIDIA driver since the control freaks at HP won't let NVIDIA release them directly and I have had poor luck forcing Vista/Win7 64-bit drivers to install and then actually work in Windows 8.
This HP laptop I am using has the touchscreen requiring a stylus and the tracking to the touch point is always off so going to the corners does not work at all so I have to use the mouse or touchpad. That is a big UI failure for this hardware. I suppose Windows 8 could be good... maybe when they do the first first service pack and/or re-release as Windows 9.
I Cater to the Needs of Stupid People. - from a coffee mug Christmas gift
Yes, all too often fanbois have been called shills, but the posts that happen at the very same moment that one could post, those are always shills.
No one goes and creates a new account to post in a story and writes the entire post in under a minute.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
USE YOUR BRAIN MAN!
Uhhh..I've gotten several FPs, not because I gave a crap, but because a story popped up that I was interested in and just happened to be the first one to post.
So again the better metric is look at the poster's history, if they only have ONE post, and don't bother to follow up or post on another topic? There is your proof. if they ONLY post on articles about product Y with glowing reviews of product Y? Then again THERE is your proof.
But if we don't have standards we end up with EVERY thread being filled with "Ur a shill!" such as what I'm looking at right now on the AMD thread, somebody said having integrated graphics isn't smart and got called an Intel shill for saying so. Since integrated graphics have to share system memory while dedicated graphics do not then there IS merit to his belief, but because we have ZERO standards for using that word, unlike the reg who bans posts that throw that word with zero evidence, then frankly the word gets used too much and becomes meaningless, like troll has now become "I don't like your tone mister!" instead of what it originally was, a poster that wrote posts designed to piss people off to see how many hits they could get.
Maybe its because I've always been a George Carlin fan, but he said we should value words and not let the meanings get twisted and it seems to me troll and shill are quickly becoming 'I disagree with you!" instead of what they SHOULD be, which is kinda sad.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Maybe but I wouldn't know, as I'm apparently one of the few developers left who dont work on web apps but write actual software in an actual programming language rather than just hack scripts in html/css/js
I don't know the first thing about web apps or nor do I want to. Mostly I just dislike the whole "everything needs a browser to run" paradigm, but also If you tried to web-ise any of the aircraft cockpit systems we make it could be fatal. Literally.