Even Windows 8 Users Prefer Windows 7

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Even Windows 8 Users Prefer Windows 7

Posted by timothy on Thursday September 27, 2012 @12:48AM from the 7-is-prime-of-course dept.

judgecorp writes "Windows 8 is not proving an instant hit amongst the early adopters who have got their hands on it. More than half of them prefer Windows 7, according to a survey by a Windows 8 forum. Skeptics cited fears of price and compatibility issues. Meanwhile, Intel is busily applying damage limitation to criticism by CEO Paul Otellini. Apparently he did say Windows 8 wasn't ready — but added that it was still a good idea to get it out before the holiday season."

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Makes sense? by SirGarlon · 2012-09-27 00:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

How does it make sense to push a buggy product out the door before it's ready? It only makes sense if you want the product to tank.

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1. Re:Makes sense? by Joce640k · 2012-09-27 00:53 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Simple: Xmas is only 3 months away.
  
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  No sig today...
2. Re:Makes sense? by gl4ss · 2012-09-27 00:55 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  it's _not_ buggy.
  it's the feature set which isn't ready.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
3. Re:Makes sense? by jbmartin6 · 2012-09-27 00:58 · Score: 2
  
  *Every* product is buggy. Just one of those little trials life throws our way to help us grow.
  
  --
  This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
4. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:02 · Score: 1
  
  Because recently Microsoft has realized that they can make money of, what should actually be, a beta test. Vista was a disaster but Microsoft essentially managed to sell some of the public a beta copy of Windows 7 and then go on to sell them Windows 7 too.
5. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:16 · Score: 0
  
  exactly...everyone is thinking "money money money moneyyyyyyyyy" while ripping customers off with broke crap.
6. Re:Makes sense? by Big+Hairy+Ian · 2012-09-27 01:16 · Score: 2
  
  Because no mater what ALM you use decisions to publish are always in the hands of someone who knows F*** all about anything and is receiving advice from the wrong people who are all scared of him!!!
  BTW it's pretty much impossible to release a piece of software that has no bugs
  
  --
  Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
7. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:18 · Score: 0
  
  No. It makes plenty of financial sense and always has. Microsoft has never released a finished product.
8. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:24 · Score: 0
  
  What are you, new to computers?
  Welcome to version X.0 software.
9. Re:Makes sense? by itsdapead · 2012-09-27 01:34 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  it's _not_ buggy.
  it's the feature set which isn't ready.
  Does that mean that they haven't finished documenting the bugs to turn them into features?
  
  --
  In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
10. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:35 · Score: 0
  
  I can't actually understand the first part of your post, but the second part is completely incorrect. First you assume that all software has bugs, therefore it is not Microsoft's fault that Win8 has bugs. This is false (I invite you to examine SEL4 and TeX for large, complicated examples renowned for their codebases). Second, you assume that this means it was not possible for Win8 to be satisfactory. Bullshit. Win7 was satisfactory, WinXP was satisfactory, and each of those had their fair share of bugs. Win8 has simply been judged by consumers as worse than Win7. Just because Win7 was not perfect does not excuse Win8.
11. Re:Makes sense? by csumpi · 2012-09-27 01:37 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Maybe it's the new trend. Worked for other companies.
12. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:37 · Score: 1
  
  Show the family you care.
  Give the gift of vendor friendly technology.
13. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:40 · Score: 0, Interesting
  
  Not true, though it is imposable to prove a piece of code has no bugs there it is possible to verify that a subset of bugs do not exist within the code.
  And you can verify that the code will do what it is supposed to do. Though Microsoft's waterfall development cycle isn't exactly the best system for producing reliable code. Though it is one of the better cycle to guarantee that the code gets out the door on time.
  I think what has CEO Paul Otellini worried is the first quarter sales more than the actual product being ready. This is a short term foresight, as releasing a buggy product when there is a better product already out has traditionally stifled overall sales, even though it will boost quarterly sales. I thought his goal was to resurrect the Microsoft empire not worsen it. If i were Bill Gates I'd sell my shares and get out while Microsoft stock is still worth something, otherwise the Microsoft foundation will fall with the Microsoft company.
  -In general it's best to not have your users to want something other than what you are producing. When will Microsoft get this?-
14. Re:Makes sense? by Reber+Is+Reber · 2012-09-27 01:45 · Score: 0
  
  I think Apple has proven the contrary....
15. Re:Makes sense? by AntEater · 2012-09-27 01:48 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  *Every* product is buggy.
  You, obviously, haven't installed Slackware.
  
  --
  Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
16. Re:Makes sense? by DragonTHC · 2012-09-27 01:50 · Score: 1
  
  mod parent up. +1 perfection
  
  --
  They're using their grammar skills there.
17. Re:Makes sense? by Sir_Sri · 2012-09-27 01:51 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Windows 8 isn't so much buggy (at least not on microsofts end), it's just badly designed. Those are two different problems. Deliberately choosing something to behave stupidly isn't a bug.
  Also, both of your examples (SEL4 and TeX) have no relationship to a full product. One is a single piece of the product that, as an isolated microkernel might be bug free, but is not a full OS, and the other is a typsetting specification. The core kernel in Windows 8 could be bug free or close thereto (I'll show some sympathy for compatibility with new hardware, but it would still be a bug).
  Windows 8 is badly designed. There will inevitably be some bugs related to the new UI, UEFI, new hardware, etc. But those are easily at the level of satisfactory. The problem is that it's just hugely inconsistent in how it behaves. It still runs 7 or 8 year old directx 8 code fine. But it can't figure out if it's 'metro' or a desktop, which one it should be in when, or how to just produce a list of installed software that I can semi easily navigate. No, metro is not easy to navigate, it tries, and it makes sense for 'apps' but it fails for serious software that has both applications and documentation.
18. Re:Makes sense? by jitterman · 2012-09-27 01:52 · Score: 2
  
  Likely it is true that there are few if any pieces of software that are 100% perfect, but there is a huge difference in *knowing* that you are going to put out a product that *IS* defective, and when you know what those defects are, and putting out a product that you have tried your best to suss out entirely and in good faith believe is going to work for your customers. While both groups may be perfectly willing to support the product, the second respects their customer base and the long-term relationship they hope to build; the former wants your money today, and just prays that it'll be too much of a hassle to switch to another product once they've got you.
  
  TL;DR --> Some companies don't give a fuck, some do.
  
  --
  For conscience is the wound, and there's naught to staunch it
19. Re:Makes sense? by mcgrew · 2012-09-27 01:55 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  it's _not_ buggy.
  Then it's the first OS ever released by anyone that wasn't.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
20. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:56 · Score: 0
  
  There are no bugs, only undocumented features!
21. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:56 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft's new slogan:
  "Deliberately choosing something to behave stupidly isn't a bug."
22. Re:Makes sense? by Life2Death · 2012-09-27 02:01 · Score: 1
  
  Oh no there are clear bugs along with a truckload of poor choices. My favorite is mouse scrolling in metro is horribly jerky and laggy but the scroll bar is butter smooth and I'm sure so is touch - the only thing I bet they tested...
23. Re:Makes sense? by __aaelyr464 · 2012-09-27 02:01 · Score: 1
  
  Because unofficial public betas are a great way to evaluate, test, and fix your product. See Siri and iOS maps.
24. Re:Makes sense? by DigiShaman · 2012-09-27 02:07 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Breadboard, a soldering iron, and a bag of transistors?
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
25. Re:Makes sense? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-09-27 02:16 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  How does it make sense to push a buggy product out the door before it's ready? It only makes sense if you want the product to tank.
  It depends on how buggy the product is, and how big you think that the first mover(or at least not-quite-as-tardy mover) advantage will be for the product in question.
  Given that (relatively) seamless online patch delivery is now an expectation, shipping a product in the 'rough but usable' stage can work just fine, no matter how much the purists loath it(and, unfortunately for the purists, that now seems to be the mark of a good launch, with 'overtly broken' being a distinct option).
  The thing that strikes me as somewhat insane about MS' Windows 8 push is not so much that it is on an aggressive timescale, they haven't released an OS that was properly baked out of the box in a significant number of versions; but that they seem to be pushing out Windows 8 more or less solely for the sake of 'metro' which really only makes sense on tablets and any other touch-focused quasi-PC oddities.
  It would seem totally sensible if they were to rush Windows RT/Metro out the door so as to get Wintablets on the shelves by Christmas(it's not as though iOS or Android started as terribly finished products, and 'ship now, then iterate' seems to have done them minimal serious harm). What seems weird is tying that to a push for Win8 on normal desktops. Rushing out a product where you currently don't have one isn't ideal; but that's how the world goes. Rushing out an unfinished product with negative buzz in the face of a (now reasonably polished) product that your customers mostly like? That's weird.
  And this isn't even like the 'XP 4 lyfe contrarians hate Vista/7 because it breaks their shitty software' problem that they had last time. IT departments have, mostly, worked it out and switched or are switching, and Win8 isn't, if you ignore the 'we shipped an entire separate shell because, uh, fuck you, that's why' part, nearly as much of an architectural break. It's just unpolished and offers nothing interesting to current Win7 users. With XP, at least, while the legacy investment was massive, XP legitimately sucked a lot and needed to go; it just wasn't going to be pretty getting there.
26. Re:Makes sense? by Trilkin · 2012-09-27 02:20 · Score: 2
  
  And they'd be 100% right. It's a bug only if it's unintentional otherwise it's just devs and designers thinking they know better than everyone else.
  
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27. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:31 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Not true, though it is imposable to prove a piece of code has no bugs there it is possible to verify that a subset of bugs do not exist within the code.
  You failed programming didn't you. This type of programming is NOT impossible, but it is extremely time intensive. NASA's systems are example where there is a mathematical proof behind every piece of logic (hardware or software) to ensure things work as intended (read: no bugs). Why else would they still run on 40 yr old equipment? You don't run tests to verify it works as intended because you can easily miss tests that would reveal bugs, but if you create code that has a mathematical proof to it, you effectively already tested ALL possible test cases.
28. Re:Makes sense? by rwise2112 · 2012-09-27 02:37 · Score: 2
  
  Simple: Xmas is only 3 months away.
  Don't think it really matters to MS. If a family is going to buy a PC, what difference is it to MS whether it's Windows 7 or Windows 8.
  
  --
  
  "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
29. Re:Makes sense? by h4rr4r · 2012-09-27 02:40 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Because Windows 8 hopefully makes you love tiles so much that you buy WinPhone8, and sign up for the subscription version of Office.
30. Re:Makes sense? by tnk1 · 2012-09-27 02:43 · Score: 2
  
  He knows it is going to suck, but he realizes that more people will still buy it if you do it at the right time, as opposed to waiting until a slow sales period. One way or the other, it is going to get out to the general public that it sucks, so you might as well sell as many as you can before that information percolates out into the larger population.
  Game publishers like EA will do the same stuff. If it is a choice between launching later, but being a bit more ready, and launching at Christmas but selling many millions of units, but disappointing the player base, they'll pick millions of units and pressure the game developer to finish up. And this makes some business sense, in the short term, at least. In the long term, they may be slashing and burning their way through their audience, but they have a pretty big audience.
31. Re:Makes sense? by lister+king+of+smeg · 2012-09-27 02:44 · Score: 1
  
  I would be very happy to find that in my Xmas stocking
  
  --
  ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
32. Re:Makes sense? by interval1066 · 2012-09-27 02:44 · Score: 0
  
  mfw a box of windows 8 for a gift...
  
  --
  Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
33. Re:Makes sense? by ceoyoyo · 2012-09-27 02:50 · Score: 1
  
  This way it gets installed on all the computers people are going to buy for Christmas. Microsoft doesn't really care if it people don't like it.
34. Re:Makes sense? by Scragglykat · 2012-09-27 02:52 · Score: 0
  
  Are you talking about Microsoft or Apple now? I asked Siri and she was of no help, so I tried to find the answers on Apple's map app and it led me astray.
35. Re:Makes sense? by dintech · 2012-09-27 02:57 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Microsoft know Windows 8 will be a flop, but it's deliberate. They've finally realized that the second iteration (ME, Vista) has been a failure with corporate uptake especially low. This gives them space to experiment because it can't have much affect on low sales anyway.
  By the time Windows 9 rolls around, they can keep what people liked about 8 and ditch the crap. This was the same transition in Vista to Windows 7. Suddenly Windows 9 will be the most amazing thing ever. If you're used to being kicked in the balls, being punched in the face isn't so bad.
36. Re:Makes sense? by Killer+Instinct · 2012-09-27 03:07 · Score: 1
  
  impossible, it is not. very costly is more accurate...its done all the time. think FAA certification or FDA certification.
  
  --
  #include bier;
37. Re:Makes sense? by Megane · 2012-09-27 03:11 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  And thanks to Obama's attacks on the coal industry, Santa needs something else to put in the stockings of bad little boys and girls.
  
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38. Re:Makes sense? by evilRhino · 2012-09-27 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  They are definitely seeing the Apple lockdown OS model and trying to apply it to Windows, but there seem to have missed the 'make things easy' part. For example, it's been very troublesome for me to date to find out how to do simple tasks like add a frequently used Steam game to my Start Screen.
39. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:14 · Score: 0
  
  Right now give me a private sector vendor who's priority isn't safety obviously if standards are involved then they have to be met
40. Re:Makes sense? by onyxruby · 2012-09-27 03:14 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I can think of more than one time I have taken advantage of a bug and turned it into a feature. Always a bit dangerous in the event that they 'fix' the bug. I would imagine this why so much software inexplicably breaks with service packs (especially back in the nt4 through early xp days).
41. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:21 · Score: 0
  
  You can have perfectly written code in the program, but if your compiler has bugs (read: some part of its code that doesn't work right with the OS or processor instructions) you're screwed. NASA still uses 40 yr old equipment because they'd have to re-do/re-confirm all of their proofs if they upgrade to a new OS or hardware with a different instruction set.
42. Re:Makes sense? by MightyMartian · 2012-09-27 03:24 · Score: 2
  
  Then they should have used swirling circles instead of tile.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
43. Re:Makes sense? by Joce640k · 2012-09-27 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  Breadboard, a soldering iron, and a bag of transistors?
  I'll be more than happy if Santa brings me a tube of ATtiny84s, a bag of LEDs and some perfboard!
  
  --
  No sig today...
44. Re:Makes sense? by pod · 2012-09-27 03:30 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8 is the new Windows Vista/Windows ME, the first generation after some major paradigm shift in Microsoft thinking.
  
  --
  "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
45. Re:Makes sense? by Sir_Sri · 2012-09-27 03:30 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  That seems to depend a lot on hardware. I have one laptop (my own) which is a 4 year old HP and the touch screen that works fine on vista doesn't behave at all on 8. But the work laptop everything seems to behave as expected.
  My lingering suspicion this is a manufacturer problem not a microsoft problem. Though I could be proven wrong.
46. Re:Makes sense? by Joce640k · 2012-09-27 03:33 · Score: 1
  
  If a family is going to buy a PC, what difference is it to MS whether it's Windows 7 or Windows 8.
  People only upgrade when they see a number in the store which bigger than the number they have at home.
  If everything in the store says "Windows 7" then they lose a lot of sales.
  
  --
  No sig today...
47. Re:Makes sense? by RaceProUK · 2012-09-27 03:41 · Score: 1
  
  Always a bit dangerous in the event that they 'fix' the bug
  Why did you quote 'fix'? No software should be relying on bugs in the OS to work.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
48. Re:Makes sense? by RaceProUK · 2012-09-27 03:43 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Vista was a disaster
  Mainly because drivers weren't updated correctly to the new architecture.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
49. Re:Makes sense? by RaceProUK · 2012-09-27 03:45 · Score: 2
  
  Same way you put anything on the Start Screen. Just remember to tell Steam to create a shortcut in the (what would have been) Start Menu, then pin it.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
50. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:53 · Score: 0
  
  it's _not_ buggy.
  it's the feature set which isn't ready.
  So what you're saying is: It's not a bug, it's the features.
  Seems Legit!
51. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:53 · Score: 0
  
  So it's like the Star Trek movies except odd except even.
52. Re:Makes sense? by onyxruby · 2012-09-27 03:58 · Score: 2
  
  Because i am not a programmer, and you make things work how you can.
53. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:05 · Score: 0
  
  "How does it make sense to push a buggy product out the door before it's ready?" This is what M$ has always done. New versions of Windows have always been released at what most software developers would consider the pre-alpha stage. Must save them money having others debug your software for free!
54. Re:Makes sense? by 3vi1 · 2012-09-27 04:18 · Score: 1
  
  > How does it make sense to push a buggy product out the door before it's ready?
  Because this way you get to sell them Windows 8, then tout the fix for the problems as major features when you sell them Windows 9.
  I mean, what else are they going to do? Switch to Linux? Ha!
55. Re:Makes sense? by NewWorldDan · 2012-09-27 04:27 · Score: 1
  
  Ha, I'd love to see your mathematical proof for the 100 million lines of code in Windows 8. That type of programming worked for NASA because the systems and the programs were sufficiently concise.
  In any event, I've been using the latest preview of Windows 8 for about a month now, and generally it's fantastic. Now that I've gotten used to the corners, I like the new start menu. All the start menu functionality is still there, it just looks different. The tiles are nice and easy to layout. Switching between Metro apps and Desktop apps is awkward and that's the biggest failing. On the other hand, my kid loves Metro. It intrinsicly makes sense to her and she just uses it. The big difference between her and I is that I use a lot of things that are not conducive to the Metro "chrome-less" look (ie., Visual Studio). So there's some awkwardness to the UI, particularly for power users, but this is not the tired dog that Vista was. Windows 8 is going to be a hit with casual users and everyone else will get used to it quickly enough.
56. Re:Makes sense? by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 04:28 · Score: 1
  
  Except that it's not really a buggy product. I use Windows 8 every day, and I have never encountered anything that I would attribute to a bug in the OS.
  Sure, some of the drivers are still a little buggy, but those are the vendors responsibility. The same was true when Vista and 7 and XP and 2000 were released. This improves drastically in the first few months.
  That's not to say Windows 8 doesn't have it's problems. Some of the functionality that was previously provided (like email) are now replaced with less mature Metro apps. Again, those apps will mature over time and we'll see third parties providing solutions as well.
  Much of the "hate" of Windows 8 can be attributed to 1) not liking change 2) having to relearn a new system 3) immaturity of third party drivers and apps, and 4) misinformation spread by people (which was at least 50% of Vista's problem, not that it also didn't have real problems as well at first).
  Another aspect that some people dislike is the full screen nature of Metro apps, and my hope is that MS addresses this at some point in the future.
  
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57. Re:Makes sense? by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2012-09-27 04:31 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Then they should have used swirling circles instead of tile.
  To symbolize the company is flushing itself down the toilet?
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
58. Re:Makes sense? by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  It may be mathematically possible to prove there are no bugs mathematically. But for any piece of software as complex as a general purpose OS, it's practically impossible because it would take more time than the universe has left before falling into complete entropic collapse.
  Not even NASA mathematically proves code to be bug free anymore. That's why you get situations like rockets blowing up on the launch pad. Still. And probes that just don't work when they get to their destination.
  
  --
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59. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:33 · Score: 0
  
  Someone tell Apple...oops, too late!
60. Re:Makes sense? by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2012-09-27 04:34 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  In the last seven or eight years - has *anyone* installed Slackware?
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
61. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:40 · Score: 0
  
  Yes it is, in fact one of it's primary reasons for existing(dense ppi displays) doesn't even work without breaking on fairly common 2560x1440 panels available for anywhere from $350-$1500 today.
  Blaming bugginess on incomplete feature sets AFTER it's gone RTM...is the same damn thing anyway, broken upon release.
62. Re:Makes sense? by WaffleMonster · 2012-09-27 04:44 · Score: 2
  
  Except that it's not really a buggy product. I use Windows 8 every day, and I have never encountered anything that I would attribute to a bug in the OS.
  Sure, some of the drivers are still a little buggy, but those are the vendors responsibility. The same was true when Vista and 7 and XP and 2000 were released. This improves drastically in the first few months.
  No user gives a flying rats ass about the distinction between drivers and the operating system. It either works or it don't.
63. Re:Makes sense? by dskzero · 2012-09-27 04:47 · Score: 0
  
  In the last seven or eight years - has *anyone* installed Slackware?
  Now this is a comment to mod up.
  
  --
  Oblivion Awaits
64. Re:Makes sense? by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 04:59 · Score: 2
  
  Those "touch based quasi-PC oddities" are set to sell at least 2x (some say 10x) more devices than PC's in the coming years. Apple sold more iOS devices in 2011 alone than all the Mac's they've ever sold combined.
  The fact is, touch based devices WILL be the defacto way the vast majority of users will use to access a computing device, and it just makes sense to combine all those into a single OS with a single mode of operation.
  
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65. Re:Makes sense? by Paracelcus · 2012-09-27 05:07 · Score: 1
  
  "Breadboard, a soldering iron, and a bag of transistors?"
  No, no Grasshopper, it's a breadboard a wire wrapping tool/posts three rolls of 22 gage wire and discreet component assortment.
  
  --
  I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
66. Re:Makes sense? by TemporalBeing · 2012-09-27 05:10 · Score: 2
  
  You can have perfectly written code in the program, but if your compiler has bugs (read: some part of its code that doesn't work right with the OS or processor instructions) you're screwed. NASA still uses 40 yr old equipment because they'd have to re-do/re-confirm all of their proofs if they upgrade to a new OS or hardware with a different instruction set.
  GP is mostly referring to the custom assembly programming that is done, no compiler necessary - just a straight assembler that can be proven to generate the correct output for the given input. Any program in a higher level language than assembly cannot be guaranteed in such a manner.
  
  However, NASA also uses a lot of Java and other stuff, so not everything is to that level
  
  --
  Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
67. Re:Makes sense? by TemporalBeing · 2012-09-27 05:13 · Score: 2
  
  Vista was a disaster
  Mainly because drivers weren't updated correctly to the new architecture.
  And that was mainly due to a drastic change in the driver interfaces between the last RC and RTM.
  
  --
  Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
68. Re:Makes sense? by AmiMoJo · 2012-09-27 05:17 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Insightful, really? Microsoft deliberately try to fail with every other iteration of Windows. Right.
  You can take each fuck-up individually. ME was an attempt to get away from what they knew was bad, but failed due to incompetence. Vista was a necessary evil to move developers away from XP and doing bad things like shitting all over the filesystem and installing millions of random shell extensions. UAC was deliberately designed to piss users off so that developers would try their best to avoid activating it, and it worked as intended.
  Besides which the "every other" idea falls down because 2000 was excellent and XP wasn't really that brilliant, especially before SP2.
  As for Windows 8 it looks like the Metro stuff was ill thought out. It is still too early to tell if it will be a flop though.
  
  --
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69. Re:Makes sense? by TemporalBeing · 2012-09-27 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  Because unofficial public betas are a great way to evaluate, test, and fix your product. See Siri and iOS maps.
  That only works it works well enough that people are willing to put up with the remaining deficiencies. Works fine for search; but not so much for the general OS.
  
  --
  Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
70. Re:Makes sense? by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  That doesn't change the fact that Microsoft is not responsible for vendors drivers. They can only be responsible for drivers they include.
  
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71. Re:Makes sense? by jbolden · 2012-09-27 05:32 · Score: 1
  
  Because they don't need enthusiasm right now. They need to create a platform for application developers and hardware OEMs to transition to Metro. The goal is not for Windows 8 to be loved but to start moving the eco system over.
72. Re:Makes sense? by jbolden · 2012-09-27 05:39 · Score: 2
  
  The thing that strikes me as somewhat insane about MS' Windows 8 push is not so much that it is on an aggressive timescale, they haven't released an OS that was properly baked out of the box in a significant number of versions; but that they seem to be pushing out Windows 8 more or less solely for the sake of 'metro' which really only makes sense on tablets and any other touch-focused quasi-PC oddities.
  Well yes, that's is exactly the point, Metro or ubiquitous computing. Microsoft is starting a transition away from x86, keyboard / mouse based system. They need to support a much more diverse range of hardware. In the consumer marketplace Microsoft is getting their head handed to them. They know that Windows 7 will not hold up against Android / iOS by 2017 and so they need to pull ahead fast.
73. Re:Makes sense? by NerdmastaX · 2012-09-27 05:39 · Score: 0
  
  that was the joke till u ruined it.
74. Re:Makes sense? by excelsior_gr · 2012-09-27 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can only mathematically prove that an algorithm is bug-free. The implementation of the algorithm, i.e. the software, is done by humans and it is thus bug-prone.
75. Re:Makes sense? by hairyfeet · 2012-09-27 05:46 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Ya know I actually WISH this was true sadly, it would show careful planning and a choice to risk sales to innovate, but I honestly think you are wrong and here is why: MSFT is pushing like crazy for WinPhone and WinTab, which you aren't gonna purposely throw a flop and have that name brand tied to a product you really want to sell. It would be like selling "The new Edsel" or how when I ask someone which OS they have if they say Vista I automatically say "I'm sorry". its tying the label of lemon around your product.
  Instead, and this is the pathetic and sad part, what I think this is is Ballmer's and Sinofsky's "Hail Mary" pass. They know that with the price of Android units falling and that with Android and iOS having so much market share if they don't get something, ANYTHING out there right NOW NOW NOW that Windows is gonna be as dead as BeOS in the mobile space. Add to that the facts that the PC market is mature with machines so insanely overpowered compared to what the users actually do with them they don't replace until they break while ARM is gonna through a MHz war just like X86 did you can see why Ballmer and Sinofsky is so desperate to get their product out there.
  Here is where they screwed the pooch though: Win 8 X86. Oh I get WHY they bolted on Metro, they have hopes that by forcing WinPhone UI onto the desktop users they'll "Get used to it" and when the time comes to buy a phone ot tablet they'll choose WinPhone or WinTab. The problem? Cell phone UIs do NOT work well without touch, the movements one does with a touch device that sits in your hands, like turning the pages, is natural. With a vertical screen and a mouse? This is an UN-natural movement. Its like replacing a steering wheel in a car with a pair of motorcycle handlebars in the hopes people will buy more bikes, its just not a good fit.
  Finally you don't shit a billion dollars down the toilet launching a product that you know stinks on ice, not when if all MSFT wanted was beta testing they can do that just fine now just by saying "Win 8 is free! Here ya go!" or even selling it for like $25 a pop downloads. When you have Windows 7 Home at $100 and Pro at $140 having a $25 Windows would sell a LOT of copies, beta or not. No the ONLY reason to push this into mainstream is as a backdoor to try to get users to take the WinPhone UI..is it gonna work? Seriously doubt it, its "Windows Frankenstein" with the flipping back and forth between Metro and desktop just irritating.
  But its not a big plan, its a Hail Mary pass, simple as that.
  
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76. Re:Makes sense? by tgd · 2012-09-27 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  How does it make sense to push a buggy product out the door before it's ready? It only makes sense if you want the product to tank.
  That or it, in fact, is not buggy. Intel wants it delayed because their low power CPUs aren't available yet and they're going to lose the low-end tablet space to ARM.
  Anyone who is actually using it day-to-day, and isn't an anti-Microsoft troll, a tech blogger who gets paid by ad impressions, and isn't a slighted "partner" will tell you its extremely stable, works as well or better than Win7 and is a very nice upgrade.
  Of course, stories that say that won't get ad impressions on Slashdot, either.
77. Re:Makes sense? by hairyfeet · 2012-09-27 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  If you want LEDs and breadboards might want to order the MGMicro catalog and leave it laying around with "suggestions" circled like we did in the 70s with the Sears Wishbook. I tripped over the place one day looking for some caps and LEDs for an engineer friend of mine and ever since I sent him the link he's been in builder heaven, his little workroom is just filled with breadboards and blinkenlights.
  
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78. Re:Makes sense? by hairyfeet · 2012-09-27 06:00 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I don't think so. I have a Win 8 system set up in the shop for people to play with and frankly it don't take long on a non touchscreen desktop for those that play with Win 8 to go "Eeew!" and then start looking at the Win 7 units. The movements MSFT expects you to make would be perfectly natural...if its a tablet sitting in your lap, but on a desktop with a mouse? NOT natural, it feels wonky and weird and wrong.
  So I don't think a number change will do much in the way of sales, as TFA shows even those that use it go "eeew!" and want Win 7 by over half. I can tell you that here in the shop I've never seen that kind of negative reaction, even Windows Vista they liked the basic look and feel, it was when one of the numerous bugs bit them in the ass or that damned UAC slapped them in the face a couple of dozen times they hated it. With Win 8 I can see within 3 minutes they just don't like Metro, its just not a desktop UI.
  
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79. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 06:02 · Score: 0
  
  oh yeah you are so right, that is why formal methods just rule the world. what are you actually proving with your "mathematical proof"? every piece of functionality there is, like how they do for "when I lift the receiver I get a dialtone" in "the logic of bugs"? you can't write perfect code, perfect proofs or anything else like that for anything non-trivial. you might prove some mathematical algorithm and some properties of your system, but that's about it. then apply a more rigorous process for the rest of it. then profit. whatever...
80. Re:Makes sense? by Hentes · 2012-09-27 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  My theory is that Windows8 was developed primarily for tablets and the PC version is just an extra until Win9 comes out.
81. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 07:00 · Score: 0
  
  "mfw"? I'd hope for bad things to happen for you, but someone who uses that expression is clearly far along on the downward spiral of life.
82. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 07:07 · Score: 0
  
  NASA does not proves everything they run works. You take the first rockets, they used a few lines of code - that's relatively easy to prove; take anything new and the millions of lines make it cheaper to launch five rockets than prove the code works. If you care to, try to find the number of lines of code in the first capsules and in the Shuttle. Don't get me wrong, proofs are still used, but only in the most critical parts of the code. Oh, and you can only prove the code does what the specification says, but there's no guarantee the specification is correct.
83. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 07:44 · Score: 0
  
  Insightful, really? Microsoft deliberately try to fail with every other iteration of Windows. Right.
  I think what the poster was saying isn't that Microsoft is deliberately fucking up every other version of Windows; but rather, that's the way it's worked out.
  Here again we have a horrifying abomination, refused by business, about to be released. No matter what Microsoft does, the Windows 8 name is now tarnished forever. Witness Vista - which was a perfectly fine operating system after SP1. Doesn't matter; Vista is "shit". And so shall Win8 be known.
  So they're going to give up on it and release it anyway. The users who do actually upgrade will be able to give solid feedback on which features were actually useful, and this feedback will be rolled into Windows 9.
  Anyhow - whatever, just glad to see someone else who realizes XP was pants for a good long while. Win2K remains Microsoft's crowning operating system achievement. :p
84. Re:Makes sense? by dywolf · 2012-09-27 07:51 · Score: 0
  
  Vista wasnt much of a disaster. At least I never had any issues with it. The only reason I switched to Win7 was I had upgraded my computer yet again, this time including a newer 64bit cpu, and figured Win7-x64 was the best way to take advantage of it.
  
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85. Re:Makes sense? by PlusFiveTroll · 2012-09-27 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  -The fact is, touch based devices WILL be the defacto way the vast majority of users will use to access a computing device
  Touch makes no sense on desktops, if you're on one right now reach out and fondle the monitor some, yea doesn't work.
  To Microsoft the tablet problem is currently a nail, Windows 8 is their hammer. The desktop problem is not a nail, using a hammer where say a screwdriver is needed only makes the problem worse. Saying that one OS with a single mode of operation makes sense is about as logical as kicking your toolbox in the trash and only keeping a hammer around.
86. Re:Makes sense? by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 08:16 · Score: 1
  
  Many of the newer desktops are coming with touch screen displays. It probably won't be long before it's the standard.
  Still, the UI in Windows 8 is designed to be Touch Friendly, not that it requires touch. It's a lot easier for a non-touch user to use a system designed for touch than the other way around. Microsoft already tried that.. numerous times. And failed. Remember Origami?
  
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87. Re:Makes sense? by rastoboy29 · 2012-09-27 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  I do not think that word "buggy" means what you think it means. Design flaws are bugs!
  
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  expandfairuse.org
88. Re:Makes sense? by WaffleMonster · 2012-09-27 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  That doesn't change the fact that Microsoft is not responsible for vendors drivers. They can only be responsible for drivers they include.
  No but it does make your statement irrelevant.
  If my toaster does not work with windows 8 guess who I as an end user is going to blame?
89. Re:Makes sense? by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-27 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  No software should be relying on bugs in the OS to work.
  Tell that to the next person who claims that Cydia is an iOS feature..
90. Re:Makes sense? by Urza9814 · 2012-09-27 08:56 · Score: 2
  
  They've got tile at least -- they're still in the bathroom ;)
91. Re:Makes sense? by Ironhandx · 2012-09-27 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  If I didn't know better I'd swear this was a review of Gnome.
92. Re:Makes sense? by PlusFiveTroll · 2012-09-27 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  -Much of the "hate" of Windows 8 can be attributed to 1) not liking change 2) having to relearn a new system
  People do not like change because it costs energy, time, or money to do so. Even though systems change is costly people and organizations still do it because of a perceived benefit over the long term.
  Take Windows 7 over Windows XP
  -XP is aging and does not utilize newer hardware like SSDs effectively. Many manufactures abandoned support on devices like printers and scanners (pointing at you HP) The cost of change is negated by better core hardware support though you may have worse peripheral hardware support.
  -XPs security model isn't great. The cost of making your applications compliant is better security. Cost of change can be high if you like your apps to run as administrator or live in legacy mode.
  -XPs interface is somewhat similar to 7, changes are mostly superficial, but still some training is needed to find where things have moved.
  -XPs application can be ran in 7 in a virtualized mode if needed. Higher memory requirements on systems running VMs
  -XPs operating system requirements are lower then Windows 7.
  -Support for XP ends April 8, 2014 (after many extensions).
  Now Windows 8 vs Windows XP
  -Current hardware support is pretty equal, No huge differences in speed on the same computer between the two operating systems. USB3 does come natively in 8. No difference in change costs.
  -Windows 8 supports secure boot UEFI, this is a great benefit to some, but like any form of DRM can be abused to lock legitimate uses of hardware. A few other improvements in ASLR. Possible difference in change costs based on how the hardware is used.
  -Windows 8 interface, start button no longer exists, menu behaviors have changed, application behaviors have changed, significant employee and technician training is necessary. Lack of perceived user benefits for changing. Significant divergence from last 15 years of behavior. Cost of change is high.
  -Windows 8 no longer has XP mode. Any legacy applications will have to have an additional operating system license to run in the necessary virtual mode. Cost of change can be high depending on usage.
  -Windows 8 operating system requirements are similar to Windows 7.
  -Support for Windows 7 ends on January 14, 2020.
  I've upgraded many businesses and homes from Windows XP to Windows 7, most of the time it is pretty easy as Windows 7 doesn't break many expectations that XP setup. Other then application security differences, which have mostly disappeared with better written applications over time, the user interface is just prettier.
  Telling desktop users that all the benefits are for tablet users and they should just suck it up and change isn't going to make a lot of decision makers happy. These are the same decision makers that said no to vista and waited till the mess sorted it self out. These are the same decision makers that, if pissed off about windows 8, will tell people to get ipads instead. Windows 8 isn't about a better desktop, it's about Microsoft forcing their corporate will on the user yet again.
  -That doesn't change the fact that Microsoft is not responsible for vendors drivers. They can only be responsible for drivers they include.
  You should be a cheerleader for the Linux desktop movement.
93. Re:Makes sense? by PlusFiveTroll · 2012-09-27 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  I use it day to day, I'm not anti-microsoft and deploy a lot of there products across many sites, not a tech blogger earning money on ads, not a MS partner either. The core operating system is just fine, Windwos 7 is just fine too.
  The interface sucks. People use the interface. People want to work with the interface and not around the previous 15 years of training they have had. Drivers will work just fine, unlike when Vista first came out, but most people won't notice that because the interface has changed significantly. Instead of moving users to a unified Windows interface across all devices, this may keep people on windows 7 and keep them away from trying windows 8 tablets. Only time will tell as many guesses about the iDevices have proven wrong. Apple, at least, didn't push their desktop to a touch interface.
94. Re:Makes sense? by painandgreed · 2012-09-27 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  it's _not_ buggy.
  Then it's the first OS ever released by anyone that wasn't.
  I'm pretty sure that North Korea has released a non-buggy OS. It made the news because it was programmed by Kim Jung Il himself.
95. Re:Makes sense? by RaceProUK · 2012-09-27 09:28 · Score: 1
  
  Not sure how Cydia is using iOS bugs, since it only works after the iPhone is jailbroken. Unles you meant something else, in which case I'm afraid you'll have to elaborate.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
96. Re:Makes sense? by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-27 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  My point was that to use Cydia you need to jailbreak iOS, and you can only do that by exploiting security vulnerabilities in it. There would be no Cydia and no non-sandboxed software for iOS in general if it were completely bug-free.
97. Re:Makes sense? by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  There are lots of benefits to Windows 8 that end users may or may not want.
  For instance, as tablets become more prevelant, and smartphones.. they will be able to run the exact same app on their SmartPhone, Tablet, and desktop, without modification or buying a new license. If you want to do that today and have an Android Phone, iPad, and a Desktop, first you have to find an app that has been ported to all three platforms, then you need to buy a separate license for each of them.
  Of course there's also the fact that Windows 8's resource usage is significantly less than Windows 7. It's faster, it's uses less memory, and it works on computers that Windows 7 had trouble running on.
  This isn't even getting into the advantages of specific apps that may be Windows 8 only.
  Good luck running your iTunes purchased music on your Android phone or tablet. Good luck reading iTunes purchased books or watching iTunes purchased videos.
  We're talking about the same kind of "ecosphere" that apple has now. Where the phone, tablet, and PC share everything. But, unlike MacOS, Windows 8 for the desktop can use the same apps as the tablet and phone.
  
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98. Re:Makes sense? by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 09:47 · Score: 1
  
  Barack Obama? Obviously, you're a Fox viewer ;)
  
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  If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
99. Re:Makes sense? by archen · 2012-09-27 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  Why? Microsoft still sells you the OS whether it's 7 or 8. I think we're way past the point where people give a damn about what OS is on the PC. People buy a shiny new computer for Christmas because it's "faster".
100. Re:Makes sense? by WuphonsReach · 2012-09-27 10:07 · Score: 2
  
  Microsoft know Windows 8 will be a flop, but it's deliberate. They've finally realized that the second iteration (ME, Vista) has been a failure with corporate uptake especially low. This gives them space to experiment because it can't have much affect on low sales anyway.
  
  Hahahahahah.
  
  No.
  
  There's a far simpler explanation: Incompetence.
  
  And hubris, lots and lots of hubris.
  
  --
  Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
101. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 10:07 · Score: 0
  
  Why is this dumb post modded insightful? Obviously he's saying the product wasn't rushed and that it shouldn't have many release breaking bugs, as compared to the "buggy" OS that the parent post was suggesting MS was providing.
  No need to get semantic over obvious stuff.
102. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 10:30 · Score: 0
  
  No, that's your hypothesis. It might be considered a theory if you already tested it in a falsifiable manner, and others did indeed get the same results.
103. Re:Makes sense? by RaceProUK · 2012-09-27 10:31 · Score: 1
  
  True, but then again it shouldn't have been necessary to jailbreak in the first place. Mind you, I have a WinPhone, which isn't much better in that respect.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
104. Re:Makes sense? by sjames · 2012-09-27 10:42 · Score: 1
  
  NASA STILL found bugs in-flight on the space shuttle software. The Mars rovers had bugs that had to be corrected while they were on Mars. During the first moon landing, the LM's computer was throwing errors.
  NASA spends orders of magnitude more per line of code than commercial software and closely approaches bug free but doesn't actually achieve perfection.
  But who would be willing to spend $40K on an OS license for a PC?
105. Re:Makes sense? by DigiShaman · 2012-09-27 10:47 · Score: 2
  
  Here is the million dollar question. Just in in the hell was the focus group in testing Metro UI?!! I really want to know how they conducted research as to the market viability of this design. Did Windows 8 just skip Microsoft's R&D division all together and get fast-tracked to just development and marketing? This is an epic failure; and a sad one at that. I never thought in a million years to say it, but I will.
  Bill Gates, get your ass back to Microsoft! They need you.
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
106. Re:Makes sense? by InsectOverlord · 2012-09-27 10:49 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, life-critical systems, e.g. aircraft control systems, are often developed with that kind of formal specification.
  But you have to be able to write the mathematical specification to begin with. I don't see how that's even possible for a mainstream operating system, or for any process that interacts heavily with the user for that matter.
107. Re:Makes sense? by Billly+Gates · 2012-09-27 11:59 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 7 is much better in soo many ways. It is very lite, asthetically pleasing, and all the bugs were worked out. Vista has terrible networking, buggy, and the indexing goes bizerk. The services packs helped but it is still very bad. Windows 7 is just done right regardless of drivers. I am glad I am not running that POS anymore and was happy to go to 7 fast!
  
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108. Re:Makes sense? by humanrev · 2012-09-27 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  hairy, you're having it easy here. You KNOW it's easy to bash Windows/Microsoft here and score 4/5 posts so it seems like you're taking advantage of the free karma every time you post about Windows 8 (even though I happen to agree with most of it anyway).
  Then again, you tend to get modded up for anti-Linux comments (which I agree as well) so I'm not sure what your trick is.
  
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  Most people on Slashdot are fucking idiots.
109. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 12:54 · Score: 0
  
  No. Unless you want a clean break, why bother? Just keep your existing Slackware system up to date.
110. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 12:57 · Score: 0
  
  Vista's UI was a disaster all on its own. No driver problems necessary (though they certainly didn't help). The OS was just crap.
111. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 13:59 · Score: 0
  
  The product is not buggy. It is featury.
112. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 14:08 · Score: 0
  
  *Every* product is buggy. Just one of those little trials life throws our way to help us grow.
  *Some* products are more buggy than others. A fact that dishonest shills and incompetent programmers have been conveniently glossing over for decades now.
113. Re:Makes sense? by mcswell · 2012-09-27 14:10 · Score: 1
  
  The same as the focus group that tested the Ribbon, I'm sure.
114. Re:Makes sense? by dudpixel · 2012-09-27 15:20 · Score: 1
  
  Is it buggy? I thought the complaints were that people don't like the way it works. I've even used the release preview for a few hours. I never encountered any bugs.
  That's not to say there are no bugs, but I certainly didn't get the impression that it was "buggy".
  To be honest I'm not sure I agree with what Windows 8 is trying to do, or perhaps it just doesn't achieve it really well, I don't know. I'd just rather have a better Windows 7, without the Metro stuff. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
  
  --
  This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
115. Re:Makes sense? by dudpixel · 2012-09-27 15:22 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly.
  If people do use windows 8, they will use it DESPITE metro, not because of it.
  
  --
  This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
116. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 16:57 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, from my understanding many people, and corporations, avoided purchasing computers with Vista. I think the same is likely for windows 8. Although on the plus side, it does make me more eager to purchase a PC right now.
117. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 17:01 · Score: 0
  
  No bugs, but ever so many glorious features.
118. Re:Makes sense? by Joce640k · 2012-09-27 17:49 · Score: 1
  
  MGMicro? They got nuthin' on Sparkfun, Evil Mad Science, etc.
  
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  No sig today...
119. Re:Makes sense? by aaron552 · 2012-09-27 17:49 · Score: 1
  
  I'm with you here. I use Windows 8 day-to-day. Metro isn't terrible, but it does suck for mouse or touchpad use. I don't think Metro is an improvement on Windows 7, for the most part.
  The things I really like in Windows 8 are (almost) completely unrelated to Metro: the new task manager, file transfer dialogs, VHD/ISO mounting, better file association usability, the right-click menu on the "metro" button on the desktop, multi-monitor taskbars
  Also, it really annoys me that Windows 8 supposedly supports EAP-TTLS (finally), but I've never been able to get it working. I still have to use SecureW2 to connect to my university's wireless
  
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120. Re:Makes sense? by DigiShaman · 2012-09-27 18:11 · Score: 1
  
  That assumption is most likely based on a false premise. Why would you think the motivation of his post is to "trick" anyone? Perhaps it's nothing more complicated than one person's opinion based entirely on a truthful observation.
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
121. Re:Makes sense? by hairyfeet · 2012-09-27 18:40 · Score: 1
  
  Its like the whole "turn the pages" movement. Now on a tablet sitting on your lap? Makes sense as its like turning the pages of a book, even a 5 year old understands that motion. But on a desktop the whole "Hold down mouse and drag from right to left X amount" is not in ANY way intuitive or natural. A natural way to do such a movement would be to drag from top to bottom, like scrolling down a webpage and of course supporting the scroll wheel for doing so.
  For a couple of articles written by guys that have spent as much time in 8 as i have and frankly are more articulate there is this one and a second opinion but frankly I could wallpaper this page with 300 opinions ALL bad.
  And its not like we came looking for stuff to slam, i was actually excited to try win 8. I love the hell out of 7 and wanted to see what good things they could add to such a solid base, I was hoping for maybe some cool networking features, like making services like "gotomypc" pointless as they could build on EasyConnect and allow you to seamlessly network your computers together and share everything, no matter if at home or office, maybe add tweaks to the UI like letting us save our favorite jumplists, there was a lot of things they could have made even better.
  What we got...was a cell phone. Everyone who has tried it at the shop has said cell phone at least once talking to them, they just can't understand why anybody would want a cell phone for a desktop and I have to say I agree with them. I'll probably buy 1 or 2 copies simply because Win 8 will be $40 for pro and I hope that Start8 or Classic Shell can give me an ersatz Win 7 pro for $40, but use it on my main system? Not a chance, it'll be staying with Win 7.
  
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122. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 20:12 · Score: 0
  
  Slackware is not a _product_. It's an art piece.
123. Re:Makes sense? by RaceProUK · 2012-09-27 20:14 · Score: 1
  
  Of course, because the interface was XP with a better Start Menu, that must make it crap. Oh wait, that's not true. I'm guessing you don't have karma to burn.
  
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  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
124. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 21:11 · Score: 0
  
  If that's how you're making sandwiches you're doing it wrong
125. Re:Makes sense? by jp10558 · 2012-09-28 01:03 · Score: 1
  
  Win2k was great for Corporate, but totally useless for a home user - most all programs home users wanted (like games) didn't work because they were still 9x and ME focused...
  I remember trying XP when it first came out and quickly going back to 98SE, and waiting about 2 years before trying again. Either it was SP1 or faster processors, but at that point I really liked it - through 2010 or so.
  I think it's more like MS does OK with every other OS, after a Service Pack or so. XP didn't become "awesome" till SP2 after all. At work, Win 7 didn't get great till SP1 either.
  To be fair, in the Win 7 case, I think the SP1 date had less to do with MS fixing Win 7 and more to do with the vast majority of developers finally getting dragged, kicking and screaming, into the "Post-XP" world.
  This all also ties back into the fact that most people running Windows have NO desire to upgrade their OS (which is usually a complete wipe and re-install) every 3 years. They liked the 10 year XP cycle.
  OT a bit - I think there are 3 paths MS could take here. They might be working on all three (which of course is so like MS, to not really have a vision and sort of flail around with pretty different strategies at the same time).
  1) Status quo - Good release > Bad Release > Good Release with people begrudgingly changing OSs every 6 years in an every other method.
  2) Subscription OSs. The OS stays for 10 years, and MS can afford that because you're paying yearly anyway. MS fails at consumer acceptable subscription pricing though if the Office price points are any guide.
  3) MS fixes Windows so upgrades go MUCH easier than currently. The Win8 App store + cloud stuff is probably MSs plan for this. I think fixing applications so they store things in users directories so a simple copy paste in to the new OS gets the app settings back, oh and a simple software install method a la linux / apple so your full upgrade is a day or less - back to your data, apps and settings on a new base, rather than weeks of installing apps as the need comes up and re-configuring stuff differently for each app.
  I personally don't love any of the above strategies MS is planning, especially as they try to do all 3 at once when they should be *different* strategies (I don't think they're synergistic myself)...
  
  --
  Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
126. Re:Makes sense? by jp10558 · 2012-09-28 01:28 · Score: 1
  
  Casual users who have never used a computer before maybe. I'll see your anecdote and raise you one with more datapoints. NO ONE I know, casual or not, likes a UI change that doesn't address *any* issues they've ever had.
  The casual users I know work like a basic AutoIt script - by knowing what pixels to click on or look at to do a task. When those pixels change - even to the "minor extent" of Win XP to Win 7, they freak out and don't know where to click because the button moved 1/2 an inch.
  These are the same people who cannot handle an icon change on the desktop - if it moves, they can't find it, if it changes color or whatever, even though the text is the same, they don't know what to do.
  These are the vast swath of non computer people who had to have the "intelligent menus" disabled, and who still can't use the ribbon because the icons change based on what they click on, and they don't understand that (say in outlook) that a Search is a different context from browsing mail for the ribbon icons. Heck, it messes me up, but I know what to do to get back.
  These people look at a different UI and do their best to stay away.
  Can people eventually re-memorize the new locations of stuff? Maybe - but with the easter egg interface of Win 8 (stuff doesn't appear until you move your mouse over the edge - or stuff randomly appears when you don't expect when you hit a "charm" or whatever they're calling it)... But many users don't use a PC every day, and they forget that they had to do something to get an option, so they feel like somehow the option disappeared.
  I don't see anyone rushing to pay MS for the privilege of that trauma. I'm already hearing people say, "Well I was going to maybe get a new computer sometime in the next year to get off of XP, but ... with the Win 8 I see, I guess I'll wait for Win 9 and hope my old XP PC doesn't die".
  
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127. Re:Makes sense? by jp10558 · 2012-09-28 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  Much of the "hate" of Windows 8 can be attributed to 1) not liking change 2) having to relearn a new system 3) immaturity of third party drivers and apps, and 4) misinformation spread by people (which was at least 50% of Vista's problem, not that it also didn't have real problems as well at first).
  Well, yes, but 1-3 are pretty much valid reasons to dislike a product. It's demonstrably worse than the predecessor. Why would anyone "like" that?
  Why does dislike turn into hate here? Because the people are hating MS for doing this again and again and fricken *every* time they update the OS. And they keep pushing it *all the damn time*. If it was every 10 years, people would be less frothy than every 3 years or less. We're spending all our time running to stay in place over the forced MS breakages rather than moving ahead on a stable platform (I mean UI and methods)...
  
  --
  Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
128. Re:Makes sense? by Aqualung812 · 2012-09-28 02:35 · Score: 1
  
  I know that I, along with many others, logged on to Microsoft's Connect site & suggested turning off Metro by default if a mouse was detected. Leave the option to turn if back on if you wish.
  One simple change that would have stopped so much backlash, and it was suggested in PLENTY of time to implement it.
  It was ignored. I'd love to know who made that call.
  **Also suggested was with mouse detection or multiple monitors detected to run Metro apps within a window instead of full screen.
  
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  Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
129. Re:Makes sense? by hairyfeet · 2012-09-28 02:48 · Score: 1
  
  They have one BIG thing on those places and that is price. Where else you gonna find 16 superbright LEDs for 50c?
  
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  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
130. Re:Makes sense? by hairyfeet · 2012-09-28 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you and if anybody were to look at my posting history? Its not like my views ever change. Vista sucked, Win 7 great, Linux needs an ABI and devs that don't treat critical components as their own pet projects, MSFT mobile stinks on ice, Apple is fashion with tech wrapped around it.
  My opinions haven't changed in years, i'm just a guy in a little PC shop that sells desktops, laptops, and HTPCs, and because I have time between installs i post here. Not any "great plan" or any "trick" as I just call it as I see it, always have and always will.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
131. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-28 05:11 · Score: 0
  
  Not true, though it is imposable to prove a piece of code has no bugs there it is possible to verify that a subset of bugs do not exist within the code.
  You failed programming didn't you. This type of programming is NOT impossible, but it is extremely time intensive. NASA's systems are example where there is a mathematical proof behind every piece of logic (hardware or software) to ensure things work as intended (read: no bugs).
  Well, guess NASA really fucked up with Challenger.
132. Re:Makes sense? by jseale · 2012-09-28 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  We go through this every year about this time. If you're so freaking afraid that your tech product is going to flop, push it back to March or April and watch your company's stock price go down the tubes.
133. Re:Makes sense? by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-28 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  Really? So you're saying it's been less than 10 years since the last time Microsoft removed the start menu?
  You're saying it's been less than 10 years since the last time Microsoft created a whole new subsystem for new app development?
  You're saying it's been less than 10 years since the last time Microsoft attempted to unify Tablet, Phone and Desktop OS's?
  Almost everything MS is doing that people are complaining about are things they have NEVER done before.
  
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  If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
134. Re:Makes sense? by hairyfeet · 2012-09-28 10:36 · Score: 1
  
  Uhhh..that would be guys like me that tested and reported on metro during the dev preview...hi! Please don't blame me and my fellow testers, you'd see the #1 by a long shot suggestion on EVERY preview was 'make metro optional for non touch devices" and we were repeatedly IGNORED.
  In the end this is a case of the users and testers speaking and being actively ignored by management that is pushing an agenda. i saw the same thing with the way they shoved Vista out the door, I slapped the previews on a half a dozen systems and reported many show stoppers that later became well known, such as "Vista thrashes hard drive" "Vista loses network shares" and "Vista slows network performance to a crawl if you play media and access the network" but again we were ignored because the management had an agenda, in the case of Vista it was hitting a release date and with metro its forcing WinPhone UI onto the public in the hopes they'll "Get used to it" and buy overpriced Wintabs with metro UI.
  But we saw how well that worked with Vista and I predict that is exactly what we'll see with Win 8, you can't just ignore your customers and expect them to buy, especially when there is absolutely nothing they want to do that doesn't work just fine with your previous product that will be supported for years thanks to government and business contracts. Win 7 is the new XP, Win 8 the new Vista.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
135. Re:Makes sense? by jp10558 · 2012-09-28 13:53 · Score: 1
  
  I talking about UI breakages, and underlying driver breakages. From my way of thinking, in the last .. OK 11 years:
  1) 95 style to XP Luna, especially control panel and start menu changes. Oh and all the drivers broke from 9x to XP. Introduced filesystem permissions, multiple users. Traditional exe installers (which were a mess) to MSIs (which were a different but equally big mess for a LOOONG Time, and still perform slower than an EXE installer - unless the EXE installer just wraps an MSI in which case...)
  2) XP to Vista - again, start menu very different, taskbar changes to big icons w/out text, all the drivers broke. Oh and again with the control panel entirely different. Oh, and user directories change from Documents and Settings to Users...
  3) Menus to Ribbons - huge UI change, much yelling on retraining / re-learning
  4) Windows 8 - biggest UI change yet with much relearning (again), drivers broke (again), installer changes (again)... I'm tired of it. I'm an IT person, and I want a stable base to let me get on with just using the platform to get stuff done rather than re-inventing the deployment, GPOs, packaging, whatever to *get back to where I am today*. That's why my work skipped Vista and is skipping Win8. We don't need the multiple steps back - we're tired of running just to stay in place.
  It just feels like they change up the UI on parts of the OS for the hell of it, just to force people to re-learn where on this OS they decided to hide the default start menu or desktop or adapter settings.
  
  --
  Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
136. Re:Makes sense? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-28 23:18 · Score: 0
  
  You are right. actually even Microsoft employees confirm the fact of release dates being bound to Christmas. Hardware manufacturers will flood shops with new devices with Windows 8, as well as Windows Phone 8 devices in November. And according to multiple blogs, bugs are everywhere. Here's an example: http://kirsanov.net/?tag=/Windows-8
  Personally, I've got more blue screens with Windows 8 than I had with Windows 7, and that's only in last couple of months.
137. Re:Makes sense? by lsatenstein · 2012-09-29 15:00 · Score: 1
  
  And thanks to Obama's attacks on the coal industry, Santa needs something else to put in the stockings of bad little boys and girls.
  The coal industry and clean energy organizations are the ones polluting North American Skies, with the result that you have dire global warming. This year was particularly bad for the grain and corn crops. It means that it will also be bad for cattle, poultry, and hogs, as their costs to bring to market are going to cause very large price increases.
  Obama sees this, and because of the friendly opposition, who prefer at all costs to make war on the Democrats, instead of working together, Obama's hands are tied. If I was he, I would put lots of pressure on to get away from oil/coal to cleaner natural gas.
  We have locomotive trials with Natural gas taking place in Canada. Take one reinforced tank car, fill it with 900psi natural gas, and attach it behind the engine. Now the engine could pull a train half way across the continent, and for much much less polluting and much much lower costs.
  If we could do that with cars, we could cut our driving costs very substantially.
  
  --
  Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
138. Re:Makes sense? by DigiShaman · 2012-09-30 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  Fair enough. But my question was based on a more broader focus group. For example, grabbing random people off the street and into a Microsoft mobile party van and start having them use and comment on the thing. Obviously it doesn't work that way. But my point is to get average random people involved in the experience and document. Having professional opinions on the matter is important. But it's also just as important to get an outside perspective too.
  From the look and feel of it, "Metro" was driven by a bullet list of objectives, some artsy fartsy group, and pushed hard by marketing. Damn everything else in between that matters and all that.
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
And the other half... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 00:50 · Score: 5, Funny

Tried to figure out where the "I prefer Windows 7" button moved to and gave up.
1. Re:And the other half... by Wowsers · 2012-09-27 00:58 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Tried to figure out where the "I prefer Windows 7" button moved to and gave up.
  That's because you're supposed to be looking for a tile not button!
  
  --
  Take Nobody's Word For It.
2. Re:And the other half... by Chris+Mattern · 2012-09-27 01:05 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  You have to click the top of the desktop three inches from the left corner. The tutorial *explained* that to you!
3. Re:And the other half... by BenJeremy · 2012-09-27 01:38 · Score: 2
  
  Yup, it's all explained there... you use Windows+®+Right-ALT to get the button to appear.
  It really couldn't be any simpler with Windows 8!
  Failing the keyboard command, you could to a swirly-Q gesture, followed by a triple tap and rapid swipe between each corner. Easy Peasy.
4. Re:And the other half... by Sarten-X · 2012-09-27 02:04 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Windows 8: Emacs edition
  
  --
  You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
5. Re:And the other half... by firex726 · 2012-09-27 02:05 · Score: 1
  
  OH!
  I thought I used a magnet on the HDD and my Windows 7 installer.
6. Re:And the other half... by DigiShaman · 2012-09-27 02:10 · Score: 2
  
  See? It's so confusing and all! Rawwwrrrrrrr!!! *slaps mouse on table in frustration*
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
7. Re:And the other half... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:05 · Score: 0
  
  Couldn't find uninstall...
Ouch by Biff98 · 2012-09-27 00:52 · Score: 5, Funny

Not what Micros~1 needed. Then again they've always had big problems with adoption. A dollar's worth of free advice -- Stick to Xbox, mobile, and your business segments.
1. Re:Ouch by galaxar · 2012-09-27 01:34 · Score: 1
  
  Micros~1. Wow, I haven't seen that abbreviation in a LONG TIME. Thank you for bringing a smile to my face. :)
2. Re:Ouch by fibonacci8 · 2012-09-27 02:13 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I give it an 8.3 out of 10.
  
  --
  Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
3. Re:Ouch by Deekin_Scalesinger · 2012-09-27 02:48 · Score: 1
  
  Same :)
  
  --
  "As the intrepid kobold companion continues his journey, he begins to wonder... if priests raises dead, why anybody die?
4. Re:Ouch by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:05 · Score: 0
  
  I had to use one of those last night.
  Found out linux + ntfs (plus some Ubuntu defaults) = case sensitive ntfs drives...
  Then try to use those files in windows. Which of the 5 files am I getting... Used the ~ stuff to get rid of them... Could have put it back into the linux box but it was upstairs ;)
5. Re:Ouch by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:26 · Score: 0
  
  Impressive. Ignoring the period on segments, not a single word of your post is over 8 characters long.
6. Re:Ouch by RaceProUK · 2012-09-27 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  My karma for mod points...
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
7. Re:Ouch by arth1 · 2012-09-27 07:12 · Score: 1
  
  You can turn off the 8+3 filenames as well as turn on case sensitivity for NTFS volumes. However, you have to modify the registry to do so. Both give a small speed boost.
  If you intend to do it, do it before installing archaic software like Microsoft Office, or it will store the MICROS~3 (or whatever number you get) paths internally.
  (This is, incidentally, what breaks most badly made Windows backup programs too. They don't know that three directories that have short names of MICROS~1, 2 and 3 have to have the short name restored too, because if the generated short name changes due to the restore order, things will break.)
8. Re:Ouch by SleazyRidr · 2012-09-27 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  It brings a smile to my face, but the smile quickly fades when I realise how old I must be.
  
  --
  Is 1563649 a prime number?
I agree by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 00:53 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm one of the people that will use Windows 7 for the future in my office and in my house....
Will give a try in the pad field but with both fingers crossed...
1. Re:I agree by Seeteufel · 2012-09-27 01:22 · Score: 1
  
  Wonder when Reactos will be ready for a switch from Win7. Win7 and Win8 are nice but you don't get the source code. I have a vision of Putin in front of a Notebook programming the next operating system. I guess his programming skills are better than Steve Ballmer's.
2. Re:I agree by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2012-09-27 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  Well, they never made it to windows 95 compatibility, or windows 98, or windows 2000 or windows xp and aren't near windows 7 compatibility. So I'm suggusting traveling to an alternate universe where it has already happened, if you really want that.
  
  --
  Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
3. Re:I agree by masternerdguy · 2012-09-27 05:35 · Score: 1
  
  the reactos project was a miserable failure tbh.
  
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  To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
4. Re:I agree by Seeteufel · 2012-09-27 10:08 · Score: 1
  
  Given the amount of investment REACTOS is brilliant.
5. Re:I agree by Seeteufel · 2012-09-27 10:11 · Score: 1
  
  Just a matter of Mr. Putin wanting to become a programmer.
Even Windows 8 users by aglider · 2012-09-27 00:54 · Score: 0

prefer non-Microsoft operating systems!
Easy joke ... well, it's not a joke at all! It's reality!

--
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
1. Re:Even Windows 8 users by jdmuskrat · 2012-09-27 02:07 · Score: 2
  
  installed win8 the other day. thought i had installed Ubuntu with Unity by mistake. Unity is much more polished and user friendly than win8. the upside is win8 is a little more responsive than win7.
Win+X by drfishy · 2012-09-27 00:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

Don't hate me - but I like Win8. Takes some getting used to but there are a lot of nice power features. Just the fancy new keyboard shortcut Win+X alone will get you a long way toward adjusting.
1. Re:Win+X by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:02 · Score: 0
  
  well, while the new shortcuts are nice, and i dont know exactly what it does in 8, it did exist in 7
2. Re:Win+X by Wolfraider · 2012-09-27 01:29 · Score: 2
  
  I also run Win8 at home. Just like I used the quick launch in XP and pinned all my apps to the taskbar in Win7, I have pinned all my apps in Win8 to the tasbar and stay in desktop view. I don't care for the simpler color scheme. It looks like windows is taking a step back to Win 3.1. Overall Win8 is not bad. I agree that it is buggy but I blame most of that on NVidia. Tried their new Win8 drivers for my video card and they would crash all the time. Reverted back to the Win7 drivers and the crashing has stopped.
3. Re:Win+X by b_dover · 2012-09-27 01:45 · Score: 1
  
  Hitting the Windows key alone will toggle Metro and Desktop views.
4. Re:Win+X by bobcat7677 · 2012-09-27 01:47 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  I don't hate you. Some retired and disabled people are a good fit for Windows 8.
  
  I'm sure most of the people in your assisted living home appreciate the new features. I mean what's not to like about providing easy access to the features the users need with very large icons so you can see them even with your cataracts while hiding everything you might do damage with.
5. Re:Win+X by Lucky75 · 2012-09-27 02:51 · Score: 0
  
  No it doesn't? Although really it's not all that useful unless you want to launch management stuff like power management, device manager, etc.
  
  --
  DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
6. Re:Win+X by mcgrew · 2012-09-27 02:53 · Score: 2
  
  Takes some getting used to but there are a lot of nice power features
  Well, "takes some getting used to" is normal for MS (it's one of the things I hate about their OSes and apps). But what are these "power features"? That does interest me, I don't mind relearning something to gain productivity, but most MS changes don't.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
7. Re:Win+X by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:08 · Score: 0
  
  Are you a Windows Phone user? The FEW Window Phones users I have met seem to like it alot.
8. Re:Win+X by Voyager529 · 2012-09-27 03:21 · Score: 2
  
  But what are these "power features"? That does interest me, I don't mind relearning something to gain productivity, but most MS changes don't.
  I've been running Windows 8 for nearly a month now, courtesy of the VLSC agreement at work. The best answer I can give to this is as follows:
  Hyper-V.
  Look, Classic Shell is a necessity to prevent you from getting a voodoo doll of Steve Ballmer and using it as a pincushion...but Hyper-V seamlessly integrates virtual machines into your computer. If you're even the slightest bit familiar with VMWare's stuff at all, the UI for Hyper-V is simple to pick up. I've been using it to mess around with a lot of different Turnkey Linux appliances, and it's been flawless for the task.
  tl;dr: Win8 + Classic Shell = Win7 + VMWare Workstation.
9. Re:Win+X by MightyMartian · 2012-09-27 03:34 · Score: 0
  
  Except for the fact that HyperV sucks.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
10. Re:Win+X by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:40 · Score: 0
  
  It's not the fact that I have to get used to thats the problem. Nope, I can cope with change very easily. The problem I got against Microsoft's OS is the hardware requirement they need to run properly. It comes bloated with lots of feature turned on and the OS needs a huge load of memory, cpu and space to run. For me an OS must be transparent and almost non existent in terms of ressource it needs. It's not the case currently. Well unfortunately, it's never been the case if you ask me. They made a huge jump in hardware requirement and ressource needs when windows XP came out... when Windows Vista came out, it was even worst.
  For example, windows xp could need 512mb of ram...naked system of course, at that time when it came out, it wasn't a light requirement but now it is. Windows Vista could need 2gb of ram when it came same... it still wasn't light on the ressource needs. If my PC is for Gaming for example, I want all my ressource or at least 80% of those ressources go to the game... not 50% or so in my OS alone. For me that doesn't make any sense. That's why I do love Linux since it does need a lot less. Of course you do have the problem with games, apps on that if you want to run WIndows apps but you gotta live with it anyways.
11. Re:Win+X by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:51 · Score: 0
  
  It has some issues, like only having alphabetical organization anywhere that isn't the front page and only having list format.
  The only part about the phone that really stands out is that front page with the live tile previews. I can see how many new e-mails I have (with three e-mails linked to one tile), new messages, missed phone calls/voicemails, etc. without having to open the programs in the first place. It's a great time-saver.
  However, my weather app's preview seems to cache the temperature from the last time I went into the program instead of updating in the background automatically like it's supposed to. I tried to find a better weather app, but so far no one has a graphical live tile like this one (HTC built-in), and it just looks too pretty to give up.
12. Re:Win+X by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:45 · Score: 0
  
  There's definitely a lot of good in there. Had they developed this as more of a straight-up upgrade to Windows 7, it would have been a must-buy for me (because so many aspects of it are *clearly* better). But the Bizarre UI changes are too much for me.
13. Re:Win+X by Paracelcus · 2012-09-27 05:13 · Score: 1
  
  Feel free to "hate" me, but honestly I don't see any reason whatsoever to "upgrade" from XP, I tried W7 and really couldn't wait to get away from it!
  I only keep a WindowsXP partition for my wife's TurboTax, once a year.
  
  --
  I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
14. Re:Win+X by drfishy · 2012-09-27 05:34 · Score: 1
  
  Guilty as charged. Just installed the custom WP 7.8 ROM onto my Samsung focus - looking good.
15. Re:Win+X by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 05:48 · Score: 0
  
  Well, "takes some getting used to" is normal for MS
  
  Yeah, because everyone just loves Unity. Right?
16. Re:Win+X by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 06:52 · Score: 0
  
  I also like Win 8. I have been using it for about two months now. I have no desire at all to go back to Win 7 now. Ill purchase it the day its released and not worry one bit.
17. Re:Win+X by Deathlizard · 2012-09-27 12:42 · Score: 1
  
  I've been using Win8 RTM at work. (I'm the guiena pig for it) and have used the previous releases of it for test cases. So far Its been an overall positive experience, although it has some really nagging caveats.
  The Good:
  1) Fast Desktop Graphics. Desktop apps just seem to be more responsive. I'm not sure if it's because they disabled Aero or not, but it seems to be more snappy. Even with a low ram system (my work machine currently is a core 2 duo with 2gb ram).
  2) Near instant boot. My guess is there doing some sort of hibernate trickery to get the system to boot so fast but it's near instantaneous, and doesnt seem to have boot lag that plagued previous windows.
  3) Native ISO mounting. Still could use more work for example, you can't create an iso either from scratch or from a disk, but it's interface is simple and clean and works well. I haven't tried mounting a vhd yet. more on why not later.
  4) Taskbar stretches across multiple screens. I know you can get this for win7 third party, but it's really nice to have it native now, and it works well.
  Mixed Bag:
  1) Backup. Win8 does this time machine like backup. It works well for user files and is stored off the main disk for protection, but it's not windows 7 backup which can do complete backups using a disk image. Win7 style backup is still there but it's in a totally different backup menu called WIndows 7 backup settings. It's not even referenced in the windows 8 backup menu at all, so its annoying to find.
  2) Hyper-V. It's got Hyper-V built in, but I cant use it. Only the latest processors (core i series, Phenom II and above) can use it, which will limit where you can use it.
  3) IE10. The Best IE ever but nowhere near Firefox or Chrome. Lots of sites that would struggle under 9 render great on it, and it still works good with legacy sites (such as our sharepoint)
  4) No Gadgets. I miss my clock and weather gadget on my desktop. I could hit the start menu to see these at a glance, but...
  The Bad:
  1) Metro and the start menu. I've posted before about this and the difference without and with a touchscreen. If I had a touchscreen, I would probably like it more. It's got nice displays (news and weather for example) and is clean, but it is defiantly NOT mouse friendly. That being said, I rarely use the start menu using the mouse. I click it, type what I want and press enter, which works almost every time. I can say that I can use the desktop all day and almost never run into metro outside of when the system first starts, although expect a lot of program icons on your desktop and start menu.
  2) No "Previous Versions" in file properties. Working on that ini file? Screwed up? well there's no turning back now! In windows 7, just about any individual file could be rolled back without rolling back the whole system. In Windows 8, The users folder is the only thing you can incrementally roll back now, and only if you turned windows 8 backup on. Not sure if this was removed in server 2012 but it's annoying as hell. It would have been nice to at least be a feature I can turn back on.
  3) No Windows XP mode. I don't know if this will change once Win8 is officially released, but in some corporate environments, this is a deal breaker. Especially since Hyper-V Only works with cutting edge processors and even then, doesn't have the integration that Windows 7 Virtual PC had.
  Final thoughts. It's not Vista bad but it's not 7 good either. That said, if windows 8 came preinstalled with my PC and I could go back to 7 I would probably stay with 8. Performance is excellent, it has some much needed features and generally speaking as long as you stay on the desktop you wont have a problem, but the metro interface is just a disaster to work in with a mouse and coupled with some key feature removals, generally drags the whole experience down. if you can live without hitting the start button every 5 minutes and can do without individual system file rollback or emulation then you will like what you get.
  
  --
  In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
18. Re:Win+X by aaron552 · 2012-09-27 17:54 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know about "power features". I haven't been able to use Hyper-V (my hardware is too old) but I do like that you can now mount ISOs and VHDs directly from explorer, the new file transfer dialog, task manager and multi-monitor taskbars, to start with. Storage spaces looks quite interesting too.
  
  --
  I had a sig once. It was lost in the great storm of '09.
19. Re:Win+X by mcgrew · 2012-09-28 00:53 · Score: 1
  
  I do like that you can now mount ISOs and VHDs directly from explorer
  It's about time. Linux has had that feature for, like, forever.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
20. Re:Win+X by Voyager529 · 2012-09-29 09:24 · Score: 1
  
  How do you figure? I've had nothing but success with it.
Alternating by jbmartin6 · 2012-09-27 00:56 · Score: 5, Funny

Isn't it pretty much established that, like Star Trek movies, only every other version of Windows is any good?

--
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
1. Re:Alternating by i+kan+reed · 2012-09-27 01:12 · Score: 0
  
  FYI: that rule doesn't even remotely work with any of the TNG movies which are all awful.
2. Re:Alternating by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:29 · Score: 0
  
  Also 11 was pretty good... Think it had more to do with who directed and wrote them... And I must be the only person on the planet that liked the first one. Oh sure it needed to loose about an hour. But it was no worse than any of the episodes.
3. Re:Alternating by Teresita · 2012-09-27 01:37 · Score: 2
  
  First Contact was serviceable.
4. Re:Alternating by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:39 · Score: 0
  
  In translation, that would imply that all Windows Mobile operating systems are terrible.
  Hmmm...
5. Re:Alternating by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:40 · Score: 0
  
  I don't think that holds true. Star trek 2 was good, First Contact was good, the rest pretty much suck. Nemesis is....almost....okay. The new one is decent.
6. Re:Alternating by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:43 · Score: 0
  
  Uh. Was it? Spherical Borg cubes. Singular queen of the hive mind. Advanced warp technology invented in the woods of post-apocalypse Montana. I do realize this is Star Trek, but my Suspension of Disbelief fuse popped all the way out of the theater.
7. Re:Alternating by firex726 · 2012-09-27 02:09 · Score: 1
  
  I think the COD games would be a better example.
  Skip every other once, since those would be made by Treyarch.
8. Re:Alternating by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:48 · Score: 0
  
  But one still needs to treat it like a radioactive substance. Highly limited exposure.
9. Re:Alternating by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-28 00:05 · Score: 0
  
  God I hate young people. Anyone who thinks 'Call of Duty' would be a better reaching example than one with 20 years of laughs behind it should die in a fire.
This Poll is Dumb by mr.nobody · 2012-09-27 01:00 · Score: 5, Interesting

So new users before the old, safe choice they're familiar with instead of something radically new and different. How does this surprise anyone?
Look, I had the same inclination when I switched from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95. I was one of those early adopters who bought it launch day and ran home and installed it. I, and many others, had the same feelings when the Ribbon debuted for MS Office. And yes, I thought the same thing trying out Windows 8. There is always that moment of "panic" when you realize you don't know where things are anymore like you did with the previous version.
But, each time, if you stick with it for a bit, you get familiar with new interface. You pick it up just as you did with the old one--and you even start to realize the advantages of the new layout versus the old. Sorry, Slashdot, but this is FUD and you're guilty of spreading it.

--
mr.nobody
--Don't you wanna go where nobody knows your name?
1. Re:This Poll is Dumb by RazzleFrog · 2012-09-27 01:06 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I just see no point in upgrading to Windows 8. Windows 7 has been the best OS I've used in the last 20 years - and I've tried almost everything.
  I agree with you on the Office ribbon thing - we went through the same thing here - but the thing is there was enough plus sides to upgrading to offset it. What exactly is the plus side of Windows 8?
2. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Targon · 2012-09-27 01:40 · Score: 1
  
  There are a number of things in Windows 8 that look like they WILL be a big improvement, but it will take some time to get used to the changes. If you think about it, we have had "explorer" since 1995, so for most people, a "start" button is very natural and anything different would take time to get used to. With that said, many people are really resisting the change in the UI, to the point where they are looking for excuses to NOT make the switch. Yes, Windows 7 is the best version of Windows to date, and we CAN expect a number of annoying issues with Windows 8 due to the number of changes to "how you use the computer". I suspect we will see most of those issues fixed with service pack 1. The problem is that the longer you avoid the upgrade to Windows 8, the more difficult it will be to adapt and accept the changes.
  There really is an almost instinctive fear in humans of change. Moving is considered a traumatic experience...for those who have not moved very often. New jobs involve change, etc. So, embrace change, and adapt. Those who can not adapt will eventually die as others who can adapt will move forward more quickly. It is all just a part of being human.
  You can wait, but I STRONGLY suggest doing a multi-boot at least so you can get used to the changes in Windows 8, because it will only continue to evolve, and hanging back will only cause YOU more grief in the long run. Again, expect issues, but the original Windows 95 wasn't perfect either.
3. Re:This Poll is Dumb by dimeglio · 2012-09-27 01:43 · Score: 2
  
  Maybe it's the schizophrenic nature of Windows 8 which is problematic. This is something Windows never had before. Having two UIs can be rather confusing and you do need to learn both ways of performing simple tasks like printing, saving or opening a document.
  
  --
  Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
4. Re:This Poll is Dumb by virgnarus · 2012-09-27 01:45 · Score: 1
  
  It doesn't help the OS when the default design of it looks like I just turned on all the Accessibility options.
5. Re:This Poll is Dumb by dimeglio · 2012-09-27 01:45 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Hanging back might, on the contrary, send a message to Microsoft to fix things up and release an OS people actually want to use.
  
  --
  Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
6. Re:This Poll is Dumb by jittles · 2012-09-27 01:55 · Score: 1
  
  I wasn't planning on upgrading to Windows 8. I have plenty of Windows 7 licenses (though maybe I should get one more just in case? Before they stop selling 7?) Anyway. I played around with some of the public trials and didn't like it much. Could you please let me know what you think the advantages are? I'm intrigued. When I first tried 7, I was instantly satisfied with the way the taskbar worked, etc. I was instantly sad that I was stuck on XP at work. I had the exact opposite feeling with 8. So what do you like about it?
7. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:59 · Score: 0
  
  Keeping in mind that anecdote is not the singular of data, I had a similar-but-opposite experience. I dealt with the ribbon by switching to Open(nowadays Libre)Office and not looking back.
  I will similarly deal with Windows 8 by staying with Windows 7. I think Valve porting Steam to Linux will create the conditions needed for me to leave the Borg collective for good, before long.
8. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:59 · Score: 0
  
  The ribbon still sucks. Not only does the user have to find what the "new" nomenclature is for the group of icons, they also have to actually find the icon after that.
  Slow and obfuscated vs. menus for the power user who throughly learned the menus. Give me back my menus, I tend to think--so it's just my opinion--that the ribbon made it easier for localization at the expense of introducing yet another learning curve. Starting with Windows 7 already, even Paint and Wordpad had stupid ribbons.
  As for the new UI, well, I know that just with Windows Phone that having many live tiles means scrolling and scrolling and scrolling to get to the right one, now add that Windows 8 will use a slower horizontal scrolling vs. a Windows Phone vertical scrolling. (Yes, someone figured out when doing speed tests for memorized multiplication tables that doing the problems vertically in columns was faster than horizontally in rows, so the same applies to scrolling.)
  I'll pass on Windows 8 altogether, thanks.
9. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:07 · Score: 0
  
  Could you please list ONE big improvement?
  You wrote lots of words, but no examples.
10. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:18 · Score: 1
  
  There's nothing to get familiar with. 8 ui is bad. It has giant apps in the way of your desktop background. Half of the point of a desktop is to havea background. I don't know about you but I don't put icons on my desktop. Zero icons. It's there for a picture and of course the dwm and explorer, in the rare event I don't have 250 different windows open.
  All of those apps are useless, even though you can change them it's not good enough.
11. Re:This Poll is Dumb by jitterman · 2012-09-27 02:18 · Score: 2
  
  I'm part of the minority (my impression, anyway) who thought the ribbon was a great improvement immediately. But this OS change doesn't appear to be a play to improve a desktop experience, it looks like a play to regain relevance a consumer market that has widened to include those who were not interested in desktop machines.
  
  I think the misjudgment is that there are two markets - desktop and mobile/touch - that are being lumped into one. Design for both, dammit. 8 is going to be nice for tablets, I truly believe that. But for a desktop, it's just not making me happy at all.
  
  --
  For conscience is the wound, and there's naught to staunch it
12. Re:This Poll is Dumb by ArsenneLupin · 2012-09-27 02:18 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  I just see no point in upgrading to Windows 8. Windows 7 has been the best OS I've used in the last 20 years - and I've tried almost everything.
  So, is there any particular reason why didn't you try Linux?
13. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:22 · Score: 0
  
  What advantages are in having every app full screen?
  I mean the new layout.
14. Re:This Poll is Dumb by ArsenneLupin · 2012-09-27 02:23 · Score: 1
  
  Moving is considered a traumatic experience...for those who have not moved very often.
  If you live in a town prone to flooding, maybe moving is what you need to do to put an end to the traumatic experience of having your house soaked every couple of years.
  
  and hanging back will only cause YOU more grief in the long run.
  Well, many tried moving, but their house still got soaked on the next hurricane.
  What did they do wrong?
  ---> they just moved to the next street, when they should have moved to the next state. So, yes, do make the move, but make a real move!
15. Re:This Poll is Dumb by mcgrew · 2012-09-27 02:24 · Score: 0
  
  I, and many others, had the same feelings when the Ribbon debuted for MS Office... There is always that moment of "panic" when you realize you don't know where things are anymore like you did with the previous version.
  Yes, MS has always been that way, and it's one of the major reasons I switched to Linux, and I'll be glad when I retire and no longer have to put up with MS's stupid redesigns and other bullshit. Anyone using Mandrake ten years ago could open kubuntu today and feel right at home, despite the many improvements.
  MS, OTOH... they make these stupid changes for NO REASON WHATEVER. Take that Godoffal ribbon, for instance. Why change the file menu to an unlabled button that doesn't even have a mouseover? Fucking retarded. Why change "Edit" to "home"? That's even more moronic, take a fully descriptive label and replace it with something random. Why not call "edit" the "blue unicorn"? Blue unicorn makes as much sense as "home". And why move the positions of every fucking design element?
  back in the W95-98 days we wre using Quattro as a spreadsheet and my employer decided to switch to Excel, so I took a class. A week later they replaced the old Excel with the new version, and I saw that the training was completely wasted -- they had changed EVERYTHING about Excel, which was now more like Quattro than the older version of Excel.
  Why do you MS folks put up with that nonsense, and even defend it? It's indefensable!
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
16. Re:This Poll is Dumb by PortHaven · 2012-09-27 02:31 · Score: 1
  
  I'd agree, I really really find myself liking Windows 7. In fact, that's why I am actually going to give Windows 8 a try. :-)
17. Re:This Poll is Dumb by interval1066 · 2012-09-27 02:49 · Score: 2
  
  ...and you even start to realize the advantages of the new layout versus the old.
  Cattle in a slaughter house get used to their digs until the "big day".
  
  --
  Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
18. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:52 · Score: 0
  
  Sorry, I've not found any advantages to the ribbon.
19. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Lucky75 · 2012-09-27 02:55 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  This might be blasphemy, but IMO windows 7 is far more polished than *any* flavour of Linux.
  
  --
  DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
20. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:01 · Score: 0
  
  Could you please list ONE big improvement?
  You wrote lots of words, but no examples.
  Well, I don't know what is important to you, but 3 improvements are:
  - Multi-screen support is very significantly improved.
  - It boots, sleeps and resumes much faster.
  - It has built in refresh and reset functionality to non-destructive get installations back to good/original state without having to reinstall.
21. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:08 · Score: 0
  
  The ribbon is still a piece of shit 5 years later. I waste more time than ever trying to figure out which tab of the ribbon a tool was moved to and often end up having to do searches on Google to figure out where to go for a tool that is in some non-sensicle place. No small wonder Microsoft had to bring back the File menu to the ribbon to avoid getting lynched.
22. Re:This Poll is Dumb by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · 2012-09-27 03:10 · Score: 1
  
  God, I hate the ribbon. I'm forced to use it at work and still can't get used to it. At home, I gave up on MS Office years ago, in favor of OpenOffice -> LibreOffice...I use it on Windows 7 and Linux.
23. Re:This Poll is Dumb by ray-auch · 2012-09-27 03:16 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  > Could you please list ONE big improvement?
  Well from my experience so far (only since RTM):
  - I thought I'd miss aero / glass - but the new flat window chrome etc. has grown on me very quickly, clean and less distracting (takes you back to twm days).
  - Some bits of the UI and standard dialogs are much improved - new task manager is a _massive_ improvement for one
  - Explorer has an "up" button again. One of the biggest issues I had with Win7 sorted (no, "back" is _not_ the ****** same...)
  - It's faster and more responsive. Noticeably. The new start / metro screen even comes up faster than the old start menu on same hardware (and with same programs installed - in-place upgrade).
  But biggest plus point for me so far is Hyper-V. Full ring -1 / bare-metal hypervisor performance on your local machine without the stress of (lack of) driver support for server 2008 on laptop / desktop hardware. It's a massive massive improvement on virtual PC or even VMWare workstation (now consigned to trash).
  [ and yes I know I can do that with Linux for free with Xen / KVM, but Linux isn't an install choice for the works machine, and we're comparing windows with windows here ].
  Not so good: Metro apps, charms bar etc. - meh. But I can see some of it might be nice on a tablet if I had one.
24. Re:This Poll is Dumb by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2012-09-27 03:20 · Score: 1
  
  There is always that moment of "panic" when you realize you don't know where things are anymore like you did with the previous version.
  
  I know what you mean. I had the same reaction when I switched from Win2K to KDE.
25. Re:This Poll is Dumb by NatasRevol · 2012-09-27 03:21 · Score: 1
  
  So, nothing big.
  
  --
  There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
26. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:33 · Score: 0
  
  So, nothing big.
  well, I think that the combination of very good multiscreen support, faster boot, sleep, resume and in general better power management is pretty big improvement for me as a laptop user. YMMV
27. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Billly+Gates · 2012-09-27 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  I disagree.
  Vista had a lot of good changes yet it was wise to enjoy them in Windows 7 and stick with XP at the time. It is not a resistance to change other than MS really does blow adding new products and features. IE, NT, Word, Windows, all pretty much much sucked goatballs and only took off after they had a few versions out already and used their existing marketshare to create inertia for their other products.
  Not really resistance to change but rather great things implemented poorly not QAed so to speak. I will try the Windows 8 features in Windows 9 when they fix the UI. It is not ready nor appropriate for a monitor and keyboard and mouse. The desktop has great advantages and so does instant search and peak in Windows 7 which ms killed. Sorry the Metro cellphone UI blocks everything and is not nearly as powerful. I tried. I used it 3 times and while I started to get used to the dekstop mode a little bit I found it buggy and inconsistent in an on integrated way. Why do that when Windows 7 has a better desktop. I love my aero and think its pretty, I love instant search that doesn't take the full screen so I can use it while reading a word doc on what to type, I like how it just works. On a cell phone I will consider the modern UI but I do not care for the flat looks and bizaare notations to do anything useful with it.
  How the hell can a grandma figure it out if we are experts and almost all of us had to google on how to shut it down? Frankly it is not ready just like Vista.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
28. Re:This Poll is Dumb by MightyMartian · 2012-09-27 03:37 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I'm going to sneak into your house and change the way all the doors swing. It's change and that's a good thing.
  You'll be really keen to see how I changed the toilet lid hinge!
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
29. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:42 · Score: 0
  
  Hello mr.nobody.
  "something radically new and different" does not necessarily mean better.
  Coming from the Amiga, Win 3.x was a cruel joke. But, I loved Windows 95, 98 and 98SE. I despised Windows ME. Windows ME gave me the TROUBLE of NT4's driver problems combined with the TROUBLE of Win9x security problems and instability.
  But then came NT5: Win2000 Pro and XP. Would I want to go back to the old, safe choice of Win98? NEVER!
  Then came NT6 Vista... UAC-hell, copying music files of network drives took forever, etc. SP1 fixed some of these things but it was still bad.
  Windows 7 fixed a lot, and XP users happily switched over. The "Classic Shell" is a godsend to fix the Explorer. If only there was a way to completely remove these "Libraries"....
  Then Windows 8 was made available in 2 preview versions.... you install that on your desktop system with two 24" monitors.... and you can seriously tell me this is an improvement??
30. Re:This Poll is Dumb by NatasRevol · 2012-09-27 03:46 · Score: 1
  
  DisplayFusion already does everything that the 'new' multiscreen support does. For free. On Win7
  faster boot/sleep/resume should be required for newer OS/hardware.
  Power mgmt has traditionally sucked in Windows. It damn well should get better.
  http://www.anandtech.com/show/3969/apple-mac-pro-mid-2010-review/7
  
  --
  There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
31. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Agent0013 · 2012-09-27 04:07 · Score: 1
  
  And none of these "improvements" are related to having the entire UI screwed up. These should have been implemented in Windows 7.
  
  --
  
  -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
32. Re:This Poll is Dumb by WaffleMonster · 2012-09-27 04:28 · Score: 1
  
  But, each time, if you stick with it for a bit, you get familiar with new interface. You pick it up just as you did with the old one--and you even start to realize the advantages of the new layout versus the old. Sorry, Slashdot, but this is FUD and you're guilty of spreading it.
  Wouldst thou care to enumerate?
  You know your argument is in trouble when your line of thinking is impossible to falisfy. Microsoft could change Windows NT 3.51 to Windows 2014 then someone could slap on your same argument as justification. You don't like? Sorry pal your just spreading FUD and BTW you are a change adverse dinosaur.
  Rather than speaking in the abstract about adversity to change and people liking what they are used to it would really be helpful if instead people actually bothered to enumerate what makes the new system better for desktop users.
33. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:44 · Score: 0
  
  Schizophrenia isn't dissociative identity disorder(multiple personality disorder).
  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001925/
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder
34. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Missing.Matter · 2012-09-27 04:54 · Score: 1
  
  The poll is dumb, but not for the reasons you state. It amazes me that there are over 200 comments here and not a single one has noted that only 26% of survey takers responded that they've even used Windows 8. It would help for an actual link to the survey results in the summary (or maybe some actual statistics)
  
  http://www.forumswindows8.com/general-discussion/windows-8-survey-half-prefer-windows-7-a-7853.htm
  
  But this isn't even a survey of only Windows 8 users. If only those who responded that they've used Windows 8 marked it as their favorite, than 96% of Windows 8 users say it's their favorite Windows OS.
  
  It's quite obvious that the respondents to this poll have not used Windows 8, when 17% respond they're concerned there is no sleep/shutdown/reboot option, when in fact they are all there. Or the fact that 26% are concerned about system requirements, when they are exactly the same as Windows 7 requirements. In most cases, Windows 8 performs better than Windows 7 on the same hardware. In fact, from the comments here, almost universally deriding the Metro interface, you'd think it would be a big concern... except only 18% of respondents reported it as a shortcoming.
  
  So again, not quite sure what to make of this poll except a bunch of non-users clicked a bunch of random buttons.
35. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 05:01 · Score: 0
  
  The keyboard shortcuts didn't change, the ribbon replaces the toolbars with a similar setup on the home toolbar, puts all of the menu options on toolbars, and adds tabs to separate those toolbars into the same setup as when there were menu options, and you can add shortcuts from the office menu to the quick access toolbar at the very top of the screen for one-click print-preview, new document, load, save, undo, etc. Even pressing Alt now gives you a keyboard shortcut for just about everything that used to be in menus, so there really is no excuse for trying to stick to the clunky, slow menu system.
  Now, for the Windows 8 part....oh, that's just FUD. You're comparing speed tests for memorizing multiplication tables to scrolling in an OS. What are you? A 3rd grader?
  The thing in Win7 that gives great vertical scrolling is the wheel on a standard mouse, but the reason for this is that wide-screen monitors don't need horizontal scroll very often, and vertical scrolling without it is a pain in the fucking ass. If you're just comparing click-and-drag, side-to-side is much much easier to perform than up-and-down. That's not a theoretical thing, either. It's physical. As in, without moving your entire arm you get a wider side-to-side range than forward/back (vertical).
  You will also find that if you set a windows phone on its side to scroll the menu, it works easier because of the wrist movements compared to arm position, particularly when scrolling through very large documents very quickly. It just doesn't work well on the front page because the icons don't rotate with the phone position, and it doesn't work well in a document because the document does rotate (because of the vertical format of documents versus the free-form positioning of individual icons).
  I will grant you that the lack of a horizontal scroll wheel on standard mice is still a failure of the OS because it isn't built for the current standard. There is some mitigation, however, in that Win8 is built for pages of icons instead of WP7's break-free list. It ends up being more like iOS or Android for scrolling between pages (I agree, it's still kind of annoying), but it gives comparatively much better room than the Win7 desktop, which is limited to screen real-estate albeit with smaller icons.
36. Re:This Poll is Dumb by pod · 2012-09-27 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  It's not fear of change, it's fear of version x.0. Wait until AT LEAST service pack 1, and preferably don't switch until whatever comes after Windows 8 is on SP1. Microsoft releases beta versions of their operating systems. It has nothing to do with fear, just plain common sense. Let early adopters fix the bugs and clumsy UI.
  
  --
  "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
37. Re:This Poll is Dumb by pod · 2012-09-27 05:11 · Score: 1
  
  BTW, as someone said, you typed a lot of words, but said little. (What is your day job, if I may ask?)
  Windows 2000 was a significant improvement over 98 in terms of stability (NT based).
  Windows XP was a significant improvement over 2000 in terms of UI streamlining and cruft removal.
  Ditto for Windows 7.
  Did you jump from 2000 to ME? Or skipped it?
  Did you jump from XP to Windows Vista? Or skipped it?
  If you didn't, would you in hindsight? Would you recommend "regular" people skipped those?
  
  --
  "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
38. Re:This Poll is Dumb by jbolden · 2012-09-27 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  What exactly is the plus side of Windows 8?
  Metro applications. The ability to use the same applications / data / session on your desktop, laptop, tablet and phone. That sessions will move from place to place seamlessly integrating with your environment and creating a UI appropriate to the physical limitations.
  This is where they are trying to get: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cNdhOKwi0
39. Re:This Poll is Dumb by jbolden · 2012-09-27 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft customers hang back plenty. That's part fo the problem. They need to get their user base to move faster.
40. Re:This Poll is Dumb by jbolden · 2012-09-27 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  How the hell can a grandma figure it out if we are experts and almost all of us had to google on how to shut it down?
  By say 2014 Grandma has only Metro apps and never gets into desktop mode at all.
41. Re:This Poll is Dumb by tompaulco · 2012-09-27 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  I, and many others, had the same feelings when the Ribbon debuted for MS Office.
  Yeah, me too, and years later I still have the same feelings. The Ribbon sucks. It is less efficient, hides the menus, and makes the user have to do an additional click for every single function.
  The Metro desktop theme has similar problems. There is no need to have a unified GUI across operating systems. The Metro style theme on handheld devices happens to work well for handheld devices. Point and click happens to work well on desktops and laptops. Why can't we use the most efficient method appropriate for each device? It's like using the same transmission for a vehicle, whether it is a golf cart, a family car, or a truck.
  
  --
  If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
42. Re:This Poll is Dumb by mcgrew · 2012-09-27 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  With that said, many people are really resisting the change in the UI, to the point where they are looking for excuses to NOT make the switch.
  Excuses not to make the switch??? I take it you have a lot of MS stock in your IRA? Rather than needing a reason (not "excuse") not to switch, give me a reason... no, a lot of reasons why I should switch. Meaning, how will W8 increase my productivity or make my job easier? No increase in ease or productivity means no reason to switch, decreased ease or productivity is a damned good reason NOT to.
  we CAN expect a number of annoying issues with Windows 8 due to the number of changes to "how you use the computer". I suspect we will see most of those issues fixed with service pack 1.
  Very good reason not to switch, or at least wait for the service pack.
  The problem is that the longer you avoid the upgrade to Windows 8, the more difficult it will be to adapt and accept the changes.
  Utter bullsht. Learn something MS this year, worthless knowlege next year because they already changed it again. And few of any of changes MS has historically done to its OSes and apps add functionality, but seem to be introduced for the sole reason of slowing you down at your work.
  There really is an almost instinctive fear in humans of change.
  Of course there is, because change is sometmes good, but often horrible. Sanity says "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Win 7 wasn't broke and never should have been "fixed".
  I STRONGLY suggest doing a multi-boot at least so you can get used to the changes in Windows 8, because it will only continue to evolve
  Microsoft products don't evolve, they just change suddenly. But learn W8 today and when SP1 comes out, learn W8 again because they completely changed it again. This has been MS's MO for decades now.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
43. Re:This Poll is Dumb by mcgrew · 2012-09-27 07:29 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  This might be blasphemy, but IMO windows 7 is far more polished than *any* flavour of Linux.
  If by "polished" you mean "pretty" and "shiny" I agree, W7 is much prettier and shinier than Linux. If, however, you mean stable, feature-rich and bug-free, no way. What takes three clicks in KDE takes ten in W7. W7 is far less useable and far less stable, although it's head and shoulders above previous OSes in stability.
  I currently have three computers, one with kubuntu, one with WXP and one with W7. We'll ignore the WXP machine.
  Maintenance -- Windows still lags badly. In W7 you get the update notification, and you have to download and install the updates (unless you use autoupdate, which I stopped after an XP update replaced a perfectly good network driver with a 100% nonfunctional one). Then you have to reboot the computer.
  Kubuntu, one click and you're done. No reboots, no muss, no fuss.
  When the Windows computer reboots you have to enter your password (even on a single-user machine in your house that you live alone in) and reopen all the apps and docs that were open before you booted. In Linux, if the power goes out, you can have set the OS to enter your password for you on bootup. The machine restarts, and your password is entered and all your apps and docs that were open before are open again. That, to my mind, is polish, and W7 lacks it.
  If you add new hardware to your W7 box, it will detect it on startup and maybe (but not usually) find the right driver. More often you have to insert an install disk and run an installer.
  Then, of course, you have to reboot after a bunch of UACs.
  Linux? Start it up and the new hardware just works. No installation, no muss, no fuss, no reboots. It just works. That's MY idea of "polished" and by that criteria, Linux is far more polished. But if your criteria for "polished" is "pretty" than yes, W7 is prettier than any Linux distro. But far less functional and with far fewer features. I have yet to find a single feature in W7 that kubuntu lacks.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
44. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 08:15 · Score: 0
  
  Thanks. His point might have been that schizophrenia is often accompanied by significant occupational dysfunction, an ailment some might attribute to Windows 8 as it is now.
45. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Jerry+Atrick · 2012-09-27 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  How does that work? My tablet and phone run Android, my laptop runs Kubuntu.
46. Re:This Poll is Dumb by DCFusor · 2012-09-27 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously you haven't tried win 7 on virtual box. Update VB, change *anything*, try to export to another machine, it says it's pirated and no, the web reset doesn't work, so you get a few hours with "steve in india" to get it turned back on again. What a PITA - I only run one instance at a time, and there's only one of me, I paid, this DRM is crap. It's nice when it works, I agree, but I still prefer linux for reasons like this, and the fact I can customize it more to my tastes.
  
  --
  Why guess when you can know? Measure!
47. Re:This Poll is Dumb by jbolden · 2012-09-27 09:22 · Score: 1
  
  It doesn't work if you aren't using their products. But if your tablet, phone and laptop were all running Windows 8/9 then you could share applications and data across them using Metro.
48. Re:This Poll is Dumb by PlusFiveTroll · 2012-09-27 09:35 · Score: 1
  
  It would be cool and all if Metro applications didn't make the desktop experience suck. Trying to move an application from a 24" screen to a 5" and to a 12" sounds really good and all in theory, but in practice different sized devices need to display information in different ways. Apple spends a lot of time making appropriate UI's, Microsoft is seemingly far behind. MS is trying to wedge an application (Windows dependent) where all that really matters is session and data.
49. Re:This Poll is Dumb by cbhacking · 2012-09-27 11:29 · Score: 1
  
  Substantially lower memory usage (especially due to things like page combining a.k.a. deduplication).
  Client Hyper-V (a huge improvement over any previous consumer-grade virtualization on Windows).
  New task manager.
  Very fast startup (my 1.2GHz C2D tablet boots it as fast as my 2.8GHz C2D gaming box boots Win7).
  Greatly improved multi-monitor support (taskbar spanning, taskbar icons shown on their respective monitor, wallpaper spanning, etc.).
  Antivirus out of the box (optional of course, but there by default).
  Settings and bookmarks follow you between PCs (if you use Windows Live login).
  Better power management (intended for tablets, but useful on laptops too).
  Unified location for app updates (I don't care for Metro-style apps that much, but the Marketplace/Store/whatever is something Windows has kind of needed for a while).
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
50. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 16:13 · Score: 0
  
  But, each time, if you stick with it for a bit, you get familiar with new interface.
  Except if you really don't like it, of course. I've been in situations where I've had to uninstall software because I couldn't get used to it.
51. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 19:34 · Score: 0
  
  i don't know which flavor of win 7 you were running, but for the professional version, my experience differs vastly.
  I updated drivers on the running machine without restarts. Even the graphics driver did that - the machine went black for a few seconds, and voila, new graphics driver running. Same with noncritical stuff like sound drivers and network. Security/windows patches demand a reboot, though (like a kernel update on linux).
  I have run W7 for 6 months without restarting, just hibernating and in the last two years had only ONE system crash related to faulty RAM. Programs that crash are more common, but never i got a program to crash of the OS with it (like it was common in XP)
  Sure, exotic hardware will throw windows 7 off track more often than not, but for mainstream hardware i found the experience re:drivers VASTLY improved to any windows before (and in the case of nvidia drivers even better than linux)
  My windows 7 only failed to install the correct driver on an old IR receiver that was hooked up via a RS232 to USB adaptor. All else was installed automatically (the only manual step i did was installing the beta Nvidia drivers ONCE to get windows to know i want the beta drivers; after that the autoupdater got me all the new beta releases)
  UAC can be dialed down to be not that obnoxious, the default settings are meant for lesser skilled users to help them avoid malware installations (i think). I really don't get how Linux users are completely in tune with Linux demanding the root password every other step, but hate on UAC which is symptomatically the same.
  I am a graphics/gamer guy, so have LOTs of features under windows that i miss under linux - namely easy access to usable graphics software.
  The only thing that puts Windows at a disadvantage nowadays is the existence of the monster that is the registry.
52. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 19:56 · Score: 0
  
  And none of these "improvements" are related to having the entire UI screwed up. These should have been implemented in Windows 7.
  Well, I spend 99% of my time in the desktop, so for me Windows 8 is an improved version of Windows 7. The biggest change to get used to is that a pop-up expanding start menu has been replaced by a full page start menu. That is jarring, but I spend so very little of my time in the start menu, compared to actually doing work, that I can live with that to get the other benefits (in addition to the ones listed already; to me it seems faster on the same hardware, not only boot/resume but in general, it seems rock stable so far, it has a greatly improved task manager/process list, it has File History (think Time Machine), security is supposed to be improved but let's wait and see on that one)
  Some tips to be more effective in desktop mode: Place the desktop tile top left on the start screen, then you can just press enter to very quickly enter and stay in normal desktop mode. Use keyboard short-cut Win-X to get quick direct access to all the things Windows 7 power users wonder were went (control panel, file explorer, command prompt etc.) - if you hate keyboard shortcuts same is achieved by right-clicking in bottom left corner - or you can pin the utilities directly to the taskbar - together with the programs you use the most - gives you the added benefit of right-click jumplists over the traditional start menu.
  Again, YMMV, but I find that you can quite easily use this as the better Windows 7 than Windows 7 people are asking for, getting the benefits of all the base OS improvements, with very minor interactions with the interface some people seem to think you spend most of your time in. Would it be better to remove it all together for this kind of use? Perhaps, but to me I can live with this minimal interaction with it to get the other benefits.
53. Re:This Poll is Dumb by jbolden · 2012-09-27 22:02 · Score: 1
  
  Metro is meant to facilitate organizing informations somewhat differently. If it turns out applications need to be radically different, that is ubiquitous computing is a bad idea, then it is hard to see how Microsoft avoids clients evolving onto other platforms which are better suited for a wide range of hardware. Consumers are going to have a genuine choice of Apple's philosophy of fitting each piece of hardware, software, OS individually and just having a complex data sharing mechanism at best; or Microsoft's philosophy of being able to seamless pass the same applications between devices.
  I think it is great we have choice. I agree with you that the 24" screen needs to display different information and hopefully applications adjust to screen sizes.
54. Re:This Poll is Dumb by SilentMobius · 2012-09-27 23:26 · Score: 1
  
  This is not like Win3.1 to Win95 this is like going from OSX to iOS
  We have a new interface paradigm that MS is pushing _hard_ that is _only_ available to apps that are graced with the MS app store "magic"
  To repeat, there are _system_ GUI API that you cannot write applications for nor link to without paying MS and getting their approval for an app.
  This is also the _only_ way to get your app onto Win8RT
  I don't care that it looks different, (It is half assed but you get used to that) I care that it's screwing both hobbyist and indy developers.
  
  --
  Loop, twist and loop again.
55. Re:This Poll is Dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-29 06:22 · Score: 0
  
  The issue with Windows 8 (and the ribbon interface for that matter) is not fear of change, its just plain bad design.
  Just because people eventually get used to it, give up, whatever... does not mean they were afraid and that it was really good, it just means people had little choice in most cases.
56. Re:This Poll is Dumb by RazzleFrog · 2012-10-01 02:24 · Score: 1
  
  What makes you say I didn't? Slackware for several years and then Fedora. Best server OS but for desktop absolutely unusable.
Apple announcement on October 31 by LWATCDR · 2012-09-27 01:00 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Apple announces a new version of the MacBook. The new MacBook has an IvyBridge i3, light weight plastic shell, and 13 inch scree all for $599. With a choice between WIndows 8 and an inexpensive MacBook MacBooks fly off the shelves.

--
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
1. Re:Apple announcement on October 31 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:11 · Score: 0
  
  Apple announces a new version of the MacBook. The new MacBook has an IvyBridge i3, light weight plastic shell, and 13 inch scree all for $599. With a choice between WIndows 8 and an inexpensive MacBook MacBooks fly off the shelves.
  MacBooks fly off the shelf now. Why half the price? But then, that's why you don't run a computer company and Tim Cook does.
2. Re:Apple announcement on October 31 by jbolden · 2012-09-27 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  Apple doesn't want customers that won't spend extra. If they are cheap on that they are cheap everywhere. Which means cheap accessories, cheap external hardware, cheap software....
  Apple has to be very cautious when moving down market.
Apart of easy jokes by aglider · 2012-09-27 01:02 · Score: 1

Microsoft has proved to be able to deliver high quality software products.
Namely, the Office suite (especially Excel), the flight simulator and I think a few more.
When the operating system evolution went past the plain old command line (aka DOS), then Microsoft has been successful only as long as it's been novelty.
Apple did it far better as far as the UI is concerned.
*BSD and Linux-based OSes are much better in the overall operation.
So, Mr. Soft, get back to where you once belonged!

--
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
1. Re:Apart of easy jokes by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · 2012-09-27 03:06 · Score: 1
  
  *BSD and Linux-based OSes are much better in the overall operation.
  Even Gnome and Ubuntu (w/Unity) have lost their way. Fortunately, there are other distros to choose from. I've been using Ubuntu for a few years and am considering a switch to Mint because I just can't get away from the Debian packaging system.
Windows 7 Will Be Around for A While by andy16666 · 2012-09-27 01:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

Something tells me that Windows 7 is here to stay, at least for the next decade or so. I can't see a lot of people switching any time soon.
1. Re:Windows 7 Will Be Around for A While by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · 2012-09-27 03:00 · Score: 1
  
  Something tells me that Windows 7 is here to stay, at least for the next decade or so. I can't see a lot of people switching any time soon.
  That's up to Microsoft. If they get really desperate and greedy, they can EOL support and updates for Windows 7, early.
2. Re:Windows 7 Will Be Around for A While by Tarlus · 2012-09-27 03:06 · Score: 1
  
  It is projected to be supported until 2019. Between now and then, a lot can change and the general public reaction to Windows 8 could slap some sense into MS before we have to feel the need to jump ship from 7.
  
  --
  /* No Comment */
3. Re:Windows 7 Will Be Around for A While by no1nose · 2012-09-27 04:15 · Score: 1
  
  I hope I can still buy a new PC off-the-shelf with Windows 7 in a few months after Windows 8 is in a fully deployed nose-dive.
4. Re:Windows 7 Will Be Around for A While by PlusFiveTroll · 2012-09-27 09:45 · Score: 1
  
  http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/products/lifecycle
  Seems extremely unlikely as it would cause lawyers and governments everywhere to get interested in their behavior.
It's not that bad by Big+Hairy+Ian · 2012-09-27 01:08 · Score: 1

It just needs to get rid of the Metr... I mean Modern interface if you don't have a touch sensitive screen or at least give us the option of using a traditional menu interface. Just give us a revert to desktop & start menu and I'll be happy. On the other hand they've also trimmed quite a bit of fat and at some things it's a shed load faster.
/2penceworth

--
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
1. Re:It's not that bad by Lucky75 · 2012-09-27 03:01 · Score: 1
  
  Honestly, this. In fact, I don't need a start menu, since windows key + typing works just fine for that. They can keep the metro interface for searches, too. Just get rid of the default metro screen, and make the desktop default instead (like it is in every other version of windows) and we'd have a winner.
  
  --
  DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
2. Re:It's not that bad by Voyager529 · 2012-09-27 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  I think Microsoft secretly outsourced that to the open source community:
  http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
buggy by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:08 · Score: 0

The product buggy was cited in fears of incompatable and user confusing. We wondered if Microsoft was to go over survey and compatable issue, with metro confusing and fullscreening. User did not want learning of new, but always to be changed according. Sales forced to laptop, to notebook, because of no self building, called "window tax".
1. Re:buggy by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:18 · Score: 0
  
  Sorry,meant, to be put against user preference. Windows always make for much worse usage, but wht to make for? No one know about it.
Ah - smart talk by no-body · 2012-09-27 01:12 · Score: 1

I am using W8 prerelease in a work environment and it beats W7 on many aspects (I have a choice to work under XP/W7/W8 - daily system reloads for testing purpose) - speed for one. Search feature appears better but still cumbersome.
There are some quirks - closing/starting individual programs in multiple instances, the silly desktop interface. Guess it will be ironed out in final.

It appears to be basically a W7 with some improvements.
From what I read it will sell for $ 60 or so.
Definitely worth (IMO) getting it after Vista and W7 failures.
1. Re:Ah - smart talk by Tarlus · 2012-09-27 03:04 · Score: 1
  
  W7 failures? Please explain.
  
  --
  /* No Comment */
2. Re:Ah - smart talk by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:54 · Score: 0
  
  Windows 7 continued with the completely botched start menu implementation from Vista.
3. Re:Ah - smart talk by Tarlus · 2012-09-27 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  At best that is a pet peeve for a handful of people but for everyone else, it hardly makes W7 a failure.
  
  --
  /* No Comment */
4. Re:Ah - smart talk by PlusFiveTroll · 2012-09-27 09:48 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 7 continued with the completely botched start menu implementation from Vista.
  Of all the complaints possible about Vista or 7, I don't guess the start menu was ever one of them. Not having the menu explode back and forth on small screens was rather nice.
Let the SlashFUD Continue by Toreo+asesino · 2012-09-27 01:16 · Score: 5

There's plenty of people on Win8 already. It does work, it is different (faster for one), people don't like change, and Windows has changed of course. If you don't like the metro UI don't use it. Where's the news here?

--
throw new NoSignatureException();
1. Re:Let the SlashFUD Continue by Seeteufel · 2012-09-27 01:25 · Score: 1
  
  The news may be that Windows 8 is not open source this time.
2. Re:Let the SlashFUD Continue by kiriath · 2012-09-27 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  If any other company changes something - for better or worse - its ok to slam them, but when its Microsoft everyone just needs to back off...
  This isn't FUD, this is FUN.
  If you don't like the article don't read it =D
3. Re:Let the SlashFUD Continue by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  People don't mind change if it's good. E.g. Most were hesitant to adopt Vista, yet were more than happy to switch t Win 7. Win 8 is the new Vista.
4. Re:Let the SlashFUD Continue by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:03 · Score: 1
  
  Don't use it? Where's my option? I'd be happy if there was an option to configure the stupid thing and elated if it were actually smart (e.g. configurable to hardware queues such as having a touch screen monitor present, tablet is not docked, etc.) Just ignoring it isn't acceptable and neither is having to install a third party application to make up for such a fundamental and prominent feature of versions past.
5. Re:Let the SlashFUD Continue by SilenceBE · 2012-09-27 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  people don't like change
  
  I have seen this remark a couple of times from Microsoft apologists but isn't this kinda ironic ?
  
  The primary reason that Metro exists, is because big number of people are flocking to tablets that don't do Windows. If you see the popularity of tablets that virtually all don't run Windows and has zero similarity with the OS they are used to, I find it strange that Microsoft fans are the loudest in proclaiming that users don't like change.
6. Re:Let the SlashFUD Continue by ThatsMyNick · 2012-09-27 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  What if I dont like Win8 itself, and I want Windows 7? Would microsoft provide a way to switch to Windows 7? If not, there is no FUD (BTW who do you think is sponsoring the FUD, just curious).
7. Re:Let the SlashFUD Continue by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 15:32 · Score: 0
  
  Saying "people don't like change" is the same thing as sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the problems people keep pointing out. Makes you look ignorant.
Honestly by __aaelyr464 · 2012-09-27 01:17 · Score: 1

I've been using Windows 8 since it was released on MSDN/TechNet on three computers (two desktop machines and an ultrabook). I'm getting used to it, and actually starting to like the interface.
My biggest gripes:
- driver/software support for my Samsung Series 9 for Windows 8 is currently non-existant (all h/w installed fine, touchpad is a bit flaky though) - driver support from Creative for my SB XFi is pretty pathetic, and buggy
Otherwise, it seems to run smoother and overall feels more polished. Yes, I know this is /. and I'm speaking positively about Windows 8--so I clearly must be a paid Microsoft shill or out of my mind. Honestly however, I think a lot of people are making noise and whining about a product just to say "hey look at me!" more than anything. Of course, I'm speaking entirely from a consumer standpoint. I can see some of the UI changes (notably the removal of the start menu) to be a problem for enterprise users. I can't speak to the changes/improvements/etc. for enterprise management and such (re: 'portable windows' on USB?)
1. Re:Honestly by Targon · 2012-09-27 01:45 · Score: 2
  
  What, Creative Labs can't release a decent driver for a new version of Windows? There is NOTHING new there since they couldn't come up with a decent driver for Windows XP for the SB Live cards, and actually drove me and many others away. Creative has NEVER been good about drivers.
2. Re:Honestly by __aaelyr464 · 2012-09-27 02:00 · Score: 1
  
  Which is really sad, because (when the drivers worked properly) the cards I've had from them in the past were great. The X-Fi on Windows 7 really was good, and did give a noticable improvement over the on-board audio on my mobo. But you are quite right: they are certainly driving me away and I'm fairly sure I will not even bother putting the X-Fi back in my computer now.
  Although I suppose one (good?) thing Creative did was show me what the new (friendlier!) blue screen in Windows 8 looks like: http://i.imgur.com/lk57d.png
3. Re:Honestly by Tarlus · 2012-09-27 03:09 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, my Audigy lost functionality when I switched from XP to 7, and I've never been very happy about that.
  
  --
  /* No Comment */
4. Re:Honestly by PlusFiveTroll · 2012-09-27 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  Slashdot, unsurprisingly has a large number of users in enterprise or computer support, so a lot us aren't speaking as home users.
  That said, Win8 'core' is just fine as you state. It's the endless hours of phone calls we will receive from users not knowing WTF is going on with their Win8 interface we forsee. Without Metro, Windows 8 is pretty much Win7SE. If there was a way to dump Metro behavior I do not believe I'd have any reservations on not using it in the enterprise. That said, business is not looking forward for all the needed retraining on the desktop so MS can push some tablets. These businesses will be staying with Windows 7, and are likely not developing Metro apps.
5. Re:Honestly by Billly+Gates · 2012-09-27 12:05 · Score: 1
  
  This is Microsoft's fault. One thing that blows about Vista/7 is sound is all software only! No hardware acceleration as it was removed. EAX had to be removed as it relied on the chips in the card. What a shame man as I used to use creative labs products in the Xp years but without that there is little to no sound difference and performance is the same since it is emulated in software.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
Comment removed by account_deleted · 2012-09-27 01:18 · Score: 1, Insightful

Comment removed based on user account deletion
Well this time there's merit to it by Sycraft-fu · 2012-09-27 01:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

I find 8's new Metro UI to be genuinely worse for desktops. I gave it a chance, just like I did 7's new taskbar, but it has failed to win me over. It is not a good way for working with a desktop. My desktop is not a tablet, I do not use a touch screen. So a start menu replacer (Start 8 is my choice) gets installed.
Also I'm sorry but it is ugly. It is a step back looks wise. 7 looks pretty slick. All the desktop composition is put to good use making it look nifty. In 8, it is just ugly. The desktop composition is still there underneath, and is in fact even improved, but it is used to render a very ugly UI. Worse still, the UI changes make it more difficult to navigate, it is hard to tell if something is a window for a separate program, or just a window under the current one. They all look the same.
It's sad because technically, 8 is quite competent. It is very fast. Cakewalk found basically across the board improvements in Sonar (http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-production-applications/) and this is just their release software, not a special 8 build. So it looks like under the hood, 8 is a good OS. However its UI is truly a step back and the UI is the first thing most people notice.
It isn't a horrible OS, but it is worse than it should be, all on account of them wanting to try and use their desktop and server OS to push tablet sales.
1. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:34 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  This could have been copy and pasted from a discussion about Unity
2. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:49 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  If you don't like the new UI it's still faster typing the first 3 letters of the app you want than it is digging through a start menu. Or you can just switch to the desktop and use icons there.
  There really isn't a single thing better about the old start menu over the new setup besides you and everyone else doesn't want to take five minutes to figure out how to use it properly.
  I have moved all the BS I don't like to the right and have my most used programs on the left of the UI.
  The only thing that bugs me is I'm used to hitting the winkey to have the hidden task bar appear so I can check the time but now it brings up the new UI.
  Task Manager is vastly improved. Just for that reason only I don't want to go back to W7. Explorer too. The copy window actually shows you whats going on. No more 3rd party apps needed anymore. It's all the little things that you will never see if you stop using it after looking at the new UI for 2 minutes.
3. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:20 · Score: 0
  
  This is why I love the Mac OS.
  Pin the Applications folder to the Dock, full access to all apps with one click. Even newly installed/copied/placed ones.
  Pin your Documents folder to the Dock, full access to all documents and folders with one click.
  Pin your Desktop folder to the Dock, full access to all documents, shortcuts, folders, etc with one click.
  Pin a server sharepoint to the Dock, full access to all levels of the share with one click.
  Seriously, Microsoft, please copy this functionality.
4. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:23 · Score: 1
  
  Unity by now is quite good, it is a ripoff of osx frankly spoken but it is usable. Windows 8 is well lets say it that way a huge step backwards in usability.
5. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by armanox · 2012-09-27 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  If only the shutdown command was at easy access. I have to shut W8 down from the command line.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
6. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by mystikkman · 2012-09-27 03:36 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Windows Key + i
  Then hit the power icon.
7. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by RaceProUK · 2012-09-27 03:54 · Score: 1
  
  Really? I just press the power button, which has been the default in Windows since XP at least.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
8. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by jbolden · 2012-09-27 05:56 · Score: 1
  
  It isn't a horrible OS, but it is worse than it should be, all on account of them wanting to try and use their desktop and server OS to push tablet sales.
  No they don't want their to be a desktop and server OS vs. a tablet OS they want one OS. And they want that one OS to support all sorts of hardware. Its better for what it is intended for, which isn't traditional input.
9. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by Hillgiant · 2012-09-27 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  There are only two things I miss from Windows 7. This is one of them.
  To turn the computer off in Windows 7: Windows Key, Right Arrow, Enter.
  To turn the computer off in Windows 8: Windows Key +i, grab mouse, wander over to power icon, click on icon. or Play a quick game of "where is the mouse focus" trying to get the right-hand slide out to work.
  (The other peeve: forcing me to have an email address tied to the Windows 8 install)
  
  --
  -
10. Re:Well this time there's merit to it by mystikkman · 2012-09-27 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  With only keyboard, you can do this:
  Press Win + D to show the Desktop, then press
  Alt+F4 to show the shutdown dialog, and finally, press
  Enter to shut down.
  >(The other peeve: forcing me to have an email address tied to the Windows 8 install)
  You can use a local account instead, it's a little hidden during the install but doable. You can also remove association with your Microsoft account at anytime and use it as a local account.
  http://www.walkernews.net/2012/08/20/how-to-setup-windows-8-to-use-local-account-and-not-microsoft-account/
  http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-tip-convert-local-account-microsoft-account-143456
It's DOG upside down by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:20 · Score: 0

Did you know that spells God?
Son of Sam is back, and he knows dog AND god personally and he says Windows 8 is good for you and the country so get it and enjoy!
1. Re:It's DOG upside down by Voyager529 · 2012-09-27 03:30 · Score: 2
  
  What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic, and a dyslexic?
  Someone who lies awake at night, wondering if there really is a dog.
Re:I would still roll back to WindowsXP. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:25 · Score: 0

> which as of the latest release, won't even work with my video card without special boot parameters altering how it loads video memory
this. Same boat here, but even in NOMODESET and Unity by default, I prefer that to Windows 7, let alone Windows 8.... So, yeah MS is in a bad place.
Been running it for 4 hours now. by richy+freeway · 2012-09-27 01:31 · Score: 1

Can't say I miss the start menu at all, haven't really noticed Metro being in the way or even there. Got 3 monitors, pinned my apps to the task bar, productivity is exactly the same as when I was on Win7 yesterday.

Time will tell I guess, but so far so good. I have no choice in running it as I own a computer shop and the general public are going to start coming in with problems at some point and I need to know how it all works!

I'll be leaving my home machines on Win7 for the foreseeable future. Kids n girlfriend don't need the change.
Funny... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:32 · Score: 0

I switched from Win 7 to Win 8 and love Win 8.
Sure, when I reboot, I have to hit Windows-D or click the Desktop panel...big deal.
the performance benefits, so far, have far outweighed any minor inconvenience the interface changes have had on me.
and windows 7 users by FudRucker · 2012-09-27 01:34 · Score: 1

prefer WinXP, and WinXP users prefer Win9x, and Win9x users prefer Win3.1, and everybody prefers windows would just get it right someday. (hint: they never will)

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This is news? by mtrip · 2012-09-27 01:34 · Score: 1

Didn't most Vista users prefer XP? This is SOP for MS.
Curious by AmeerCB · 2012-09-27 01:36 · Score: 1

Am I the only one who can't wait to give Win8 a shot just to see what all the screaming is about? I haven't touched the interface at all and only know what I've seen in pictures, but usually something as polarizing as metro ends up being awesome in the long run or it gets completely ditched. I'm excited to decide which one I think it is....
1. Re:Curious by Karzz1 · 2012-09-27 01:57 · Score: 2
  
  So.. give it a shot.
  
  --
  Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
2. Re:Curious by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:58 · Score: 0
  
  You are not alone. I have nearly bought several laptops in the last few weeks, but don't want to have a Win7 base with a Win8 on top. I want Win8 factory-installed. I am going to keep my Win7 laptop. I wish I had gotten 64-bit Win7. I still think about making that upgrade. You are not alone.
3. Re:Curious by jbolden · 2012-09-27 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  Awesome in the long run. Not so great for today's hardware but when people start having more fluid hardware it will be fantastic.
Re:So Vista haters were just whiners too by Billly+Gates · 2012-09-27 01:37 · Score: 1

Bah Vista is fine. Just people hate change for no apparent reason as there are tons of reasons to love Vista on the netbook with only 1 gig of ram right? They need to learn to put up with it and then they will see the light.
I mean how can their be a negative product ever! Just blame the user for hating the familiar.

--
http://saveie6.com/
Good news for Surface!? by Simon+Brooke · 2012-09-27 01:38 · Score: 2

From the article:

There was some good news for Microsoft from the survey though, as the Windows 8-based Microsoft Surface was more popular than Android tablets and the iPad. Around 35 percent of respondents said the Surface would be their tablet of choice.
Right. Around 35% of Microsoft fanbois on a Microsoft fanboi site would prefer Surface to Android of I pad, and that's good news for Microsoft? If they can't get more than 35% of their own fanbois on board, it's dead.

--
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
1. Re:Good news for Surface!? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:59 · Score: 0
  
  I'm holding out for a Surface myself, USB3.0, HDMI, Intel Core processor, and a desktop OS running on a tablet = HELL YES!!! F*%k the locked down mobile apps tablets.
2. Re:Good news for Surface!? by kiriath · 2012-09-27 03:52 · Score: 1
  
  Locked down mobile apps? Uh... mobile apps are mostly horribly useful. Very few times have I thought "Man I wish I had the desktop version".
  I feel like an Intel Core processor in a tablet is going to always be warm / hot / icky. Tons of Android tablets have HDMI and I'm sure that some of them will be USB3 if not already.
  A desktop OS on a tablet to me seems like overkill... I've got a computer with me for that, when I have my tablet out its because I'm trying to do something tablet-y.
  If that's what you're after more power to you, but don't ignore the literal TONS of other really good tablets and place all your bets on this, you might be disappointed.
3. Re:Good news for Surface!? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:59 · Score: 0
  
  ARM CPUs does not support USB 3, and I'm not familiar with any upcoming model that does. So thats not going to happen. As for tablet apps - I still find them far too crippling, far too slow (at getting something done efficiently), far too often.
4. Re:Good news for Surface!? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 05:14 · Score: 0
  
  Just remember that the Pro version doesn't come out right away like the RT. It kind of bothers me that they have the two different versions whose programs will be locked away from each other, and it's just the tag at the end of the product name that differentiates which is which.
5. Re:Good news for Surface!? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 10:00 · Score: 0
  
  Do we have to use the word "fanbois"? Like what are you trying to say with the use of the i in place of the y in that word? I'm all for not enjoying Windows, haven't enjoyed it for a long while - but when you use a word like 'fanboi', it makes it real easy to just glaze over your post.
  Then again I didn't glaze over so I guess you win.
And this is surprising because...?? by zarmanto · 2012-09-27 01:40 · Score: 2

The notion that many or even most users of a new and largely untested (insert any-fracking-thing here) would prefer the one they were using and were comfortable with previously over this new and unfamiliar experience, is nothing short of blatantly obvious. Likewise, the notion that any new complex system is going to be completely perfect on day-one of release is utterly ludicrous. Crud... I'm a Mac user, and I'm not in the slightest surprised to hear that W8 users might want to go back to W7, any more then I would be surprised when any given Windows user who has migrated to a Mac expresses certain regrets over that move, now and then. Growing pains always suck... and in the case of W8, there's not really any seasoned users around, who might be able to help navigate through this new territory.
The real test of W8 will be to conduct the same type of survey a year or two from now, to see if switchers who have been using it for awhile still want to go back. Vista very (in)famously failed that test, which is what kept XP around for so long... but trying to conduct such a test now, on W8 early adopters is basically the same thing as testing to see if water is still wet.
1. Re:And this is surprising because...?? by jbolden · 2012-09-27 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  The real test is Windows 8 vs. Windows 7 once hardware is taking advantage of Metro and applications are taking advantage of that hardware. This is to my mind a lot like the graphics work Apple did OSX 10.2-10.4 in allowing for the animated interfaces we see today on iPhone.
It's a paradox: good products sell less by concealment · 2012-09-27 01:41 · Score: 2

This is the same paradox Microsoft struggled with on Windows XP: if you make a really good product, people will buy it once and buy nothing else.
If you wonder why Microsoft makes its money selling Windows with new PCs, this is why. Buying a new PC is the only time most of us buy an operating system.
Look for them to go to a subscription model soon, with different UIs being options on a constantly-refined code base. It's about the only way to make money outside of new PC OS sales.
I imagine this is the same reason that every car manufacturer hasn't re-tooled and started making those old VW bugs. A car that runs forever is a bad product.
1. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2012-09-27 02:22 · Score: 2
  
  Strangely enough though, modern cars are way more reliable. The thing about those old VW bugs is that time shook out all the really bad ones and those were easy as hell to repair.
  
  --
  Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
2. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by ceoyoyo · 2012-09-27 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  "Buying a new PC is the only time most of us buy an operating system."
  That suggests it's something Microsoft is doing. Mac users tend to upgrade fairly quickly when new versions are released, as do Linux users. Perhaps it's because Microsoft charges (or certainly did in the past) so much and most new versions seem not to offer much.
3. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by dejanc · 2012-09-27 03:10 · Score: 1
  
  This is the same paradox Microsoft struggled with on Windows XP: if you make a really good product, people will buy it once and buy nothing else.
  I don't want to go into whether Windows XP was a good product or not, but I think that's not the reason people are reluctant to upgrade.
  Windows supported Windows XP for a very long time and an average user or an average IT guy will not upgrade a supported product as long as it does the job alright. Once drivers stop working or new applications aren't supported - people will upgrade.
  I have the same experience with Linux: I do not upgrade my Debian installations to a new release until they are no longer supported. All my programs (versions of apache, postgresql, etc. which I am happy with) run on it correctly and I have no incentive to go through trouble of upgrading or risk hours spent debugging stuff after the upgrade. That's not necessarily because Debian is a really good product (though I think it is), it's because I am lazy and/or don't like spending more hours at work than I have to.
  Now, there are enthusiasts who like latest & greatest and they will be happy to buy a new version of Windows and tinker with it out of curiosity, but they probably don't make a significant percentage of Microsoft's sales.
4. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2012-09-27 03:58 · Score: 1
  
  I imagine this is the same reason that every car manufacturer hasn't re-tooled and started making those old VW bugs. A car that runs forever is a bad product.
  Well, that and the more stringent crash test regulations. I'm not sure what the fuel economy on those were but its probably been surpased as well. But there is a lot of truth to that addiage, even if its not true in the auto industry. Todays cars are actually more reliable than any other time in history. If they break, only the dealer can fix them, but they break less often. They've moved on to doing things like including electronics inside the car, causing people to want to upgrade the car sooner top get newer electronics than is strictly mechanically necissary.
  
  --
  Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
5. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 05:18 · Score: 1
  
  Apparently, you weren't around when XP was released. Everyone was complaining about the new "Fisher Price" UI, and that device drivers were buggy and in short supply, and that their 9x apps would break on it...
  The point is, growing pains are called pains for a reason. But they eventually go away.
  
  --
  If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
6. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by jbolden · 2012-09-27 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  Apple tends to very aggressively push their entire platform. They break legacy and obsolete hardware and software. Microsoft had a legacy of long term compatibility nothing like VMS or MVS with time frames measured in decades but excellent long term support. (And please: readers don't respond with a cite of an anecdotes about program X you didn't get long support on, I understand and agree there were exceptions).
  Microsoft by allowing software to mature slowly allowed themselves to have a user base that doesn't turn over the code and systems regularly. This was good for them for a while but now is becoming a problem.
7. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by ceoyoyo · 2012-09-27 07:36 · Score: 1
  
  We're talking about one major release to another. Apple fully supports everything going back at least a full major release, and most stuff two or three. If anything breaking backwards compatibility (such as the new OS not running on old hardware) means FEWER people should (or can) upgrade.
  You've completely ignored Linux.
  I think the real problem is that Microsoft has a habit of not putting anything compelling in their new releases and most upgrades are through attrition.
8. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by jbolden · 2012-09-27 08:36 · Score: 1
  
  . If anything breaking backwards compatibility (such as the new OS not running on old hardware) means FEWER people should (or can) upgrade
  Not at all. You are thinking about this too statically. Developers on Windows can target a wide range of systems. On OSX they can't. The effect is that developers pair versions of their software to versions of the OS. Developers that want to support a smaller number of systems drop support more quickly for legacy OSes. The consumer gets used to a pattern of rapid upgrades and the developers follow suit. The result is a whole eco system driven by rapid upgrades of hardware and software.
  You've completely ignored Linux.
  Yes. I don't think Linux as a consumer OS has a pattern since the usage isn't big enough. As a server OS the distributions have an expert installer policy.
9. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by mcgrew · 2012-09-27 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  I imagine this is the same reason that every car manufacturer hasn't re-tooled and started making those old VW bugs. A car that runs forever is a bad product.
  Your example is REALLY lame; you don't know what you're talking about, kid. VW bugs didn't last longer than other cars, but they were a lot easier to work on than most (which were all a HELL of a lot easier to work on that today's). Back in the bug days, most auto warrantees were 3-5 years, 30-50k miles. By the time the average car was five years old it was rusted out, burning oil, leaking every kind of fluid it held, seats and carpet shredded, etc. 50k miles was the average car's lifespan.
  Modern cars last more than twice as long. Buy a five year old car now and it's like a new car, even with 100k miles on it.
  In fact, you used the very worst analogue you possibly could have -- almost every other device sold that was on the market before maybe 1970 or 80 lasted far longer than the modern equivalent. Hell, I have a 57 year old vaccuum cleaner that's never been serviced and still works fine. I bought a Panasonic TV in 1968 that still worked when I left it in a house I moved out of in 2004.
  Did you know that railroad locomotives made in the 1800s carried 100 year warrantees?
  Cars are the exception to planned obsolescence, not an example.
  
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10. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by ceoyoyo · 2012-09-27 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  "Developers on Windows can target a wide range of systems. On OSX they can't."
  That's ridiculous. Apple AND virtually all developers support at least one major revision back, usually several. That's a period of years. Meanwhile OS X users upgrade in large numbers in a period of days to months. Most well before new major software releases for the new OS and many before the major software developers even release patches to make sure their software works properly with the new OS.
  Let's examine this assertion of yours that developers maintain backwards compatibility longer (in terms of major OS releases) with Windows though. Take Adobe CS for example. CS 6 for Mac: Requires 10.6 or 10.7 (presumably works on 10.8 as well). That's two major (paid) OS versions back. For Windows? XP (SP3), Vista, 7 (and hopefully 8). Three major (paid) OS versions back. The latest version of Office: 10.5 or later on the Mac (three versions back), Office 2010 for Windows requires XP SP3 (three versions), office 2012 will require at least Windows 7 (one version back).
  Your assertion doesn't hold up.
  And before you say that 10.6 was only two and a bit years ago while XP SP3 was released four years ago, that makes the difference even bigger - somehow Apple convinces most of their users to get excited about their new OS and upgrade not only quicker for a given release, but with more frequent releases!
11. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by jbolden · 2012-09-27 09:28 · Score: 1
  
  Vista is late 2006. So using your example Adobe CS6 supports Microsoft OSes from 2006 onwards (including their updated 2001 OS). Snow Leopard is mid 2009. So I'm not sure how that example doesn't prove my point.
  I agree that Apple gets their users to upgrade more quickly. I said that. I think you are misunderstanding what I wrote.
12. Re:It's a paradox: good products sell less by ceoyoyo · 2012-09-27 12:40 · Score: 1
  
  I think you're misunderstanding what I wrote.
NO WAY!! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:43 · Score: 0

I am TOTALLY shocked about this (Extreme sarcasm)
All they had to do... by MikeRT · 2012-09-27 01:51 · Score: 1

Was keep the old Windows 7 desktop and make switching to Metro seamless. OS X can gracefully switch to full screen apps. Why can't Windows 8 just gracefully slide in a Metro app into full screen mode?
I'll tell you why. Because Microsoft is like a jack booted thug who sees Steve Jobs compelling people to accept a new UI and completely misses the Steve Jobs-era quality control and salesmanship for the authority he has in the eyes of the customer. Therefore they think "if Steve Jobs can make them like it, anyone with some type of authority can compel change."
News flash, Microsoft. Metro will fail on the desktop until you realize that Metro can only work on the desktop app as a part of the desktop that takes over the whole screen.
1. Re:All they had to do... by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 05:20 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sorry, I don't understand your point. WIndows 8 *DOES* seamlessly deal with the switch between UI's. In fact, you can have both the desktop and Metro apps on screen simultaneously when using Metro Snap.
  
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Gee, maybe if they had listened to their users... by gestalt_n_pepper · 2012-09-27 01:53 · Score: 5, Insightful

And just extended the Windows 7 shell so it had a "Tablet" mode with some sort of auto-detection, they might have kept the desktop people happy AND the tablet crowd happy - just like the actual users suggested on the Windows forums, again and again and again....
Microsoft, missing the obvious since the 80s.
Next up? Microsoft ignores 3d printing until Linux dominates the field!

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Low resolution by jones_supa · 2012-09-27 01:58 · Score: 4, Interesting

Just yesterday I installed the final version of Windows 8 from DreamSpark to a netbook just for fun. The result? It actually ran smooth, but none of the Metro apps could be run due to the 1024x600 resolution. Not a big loss, but I was slightly surprised that they actually completely skipped us netbook-connoisseurs.
As a sidenote, it was funny how in W8 many of the texts have been changed to a casual, "user-friendly" style. "While we set up your stuff, please enjoy a pizza. Meanwhile we'll send some info to Microsoft, but you can change this later."
1. Re:Low resolution by ArsenneLupin · 2012-09-27 02:25 · Score: 1
  
  Or more accurately: please enjoy a 2 week cruise in the Carribean...
2. Re:Low resolution by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:56 · Score: 0
  
  There is a registry change to enable virtual screen sizes that will let you run Metro apps on the netbook. It crushes the image to fit the screen but works well.
3. Re:Low resolution by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:07 · Score: 0
  
  This is called "Modern Voice" in the current MS style guides.
4. Re:Low resolution by jones_supa · 2012-09-27 03:35 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah, I found that trick too. Kind of crude hack though, as it apparently just means running the LCD in a non-native downscaled resolution, which would make everything blurry.
5. Re:Low resolution by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:54 · Score: 0
  
  I was looking forward to trying out Win8 on my tablet, and was impressed by how well it ran on a crappy Atom processor (the UI was always responsive, even when the computer was obviously struggling in the background). But then I try to open a Metro app and... not enough resolution.
  The fuck? Shouldn't these scale? What's the point of doing all these line art applications if you're not using vector graphics?
6. Re:Low resolution by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-27 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  Just yesterday I installed the final version of Windows 8 from DreamSpark to a netbook just for fun. The result? It actually ran smooth, but none of the Metro apps could be run due to the 1024x600 resolution. Not a big loss, but I was slightly surprised that they actually completely skipped us netbook-connoisseurs.
  If you want to read the public rationale for this decision, it's here. TL;DR version:
  "Looking at the data about devices in the marketplace today, we see that only 1.2% of active Windows 7 users have screens with a resolution of less than 1024x768."
  Which is not unexpected, given that vast majority of low-cost netbooks run XP.
No Shit, Sherlock by EmagGeek · 2012-09-27 01:59 · Score: 1

Filed under "thank you, captain Obvious."
For good reason by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:02 · Score: 0

I needed less than a day with W8 to know I hated it. It sucks. I don't have a touchscreen and have no intention of getting one. Most geeks, while applauding a touchscreen, have absolutely no intention of ever using one.
It's Windows 7, with a bad UI. That brings it back to Vista suckiness.
If Windows 8 is a dud, WP8 will suffer too by phonewebcam · 2012-09-27 02:05 · Score: 1

Making UI uniform across all devices is a risky strategy. If consumers, familiar with Windows 7 & XP, hate Windows 8, how are they going to be sold Microsoft's new phone on the strength "it's the same as our new PC desktop" ?
1. Re:If Windows 8 is a dud, WP8 will suffer too by Voyager529 · 2012-09-27 03:38 · Score: 1
  
  Making UI uniform across all devices is a risky strategy. If consumers, familiar with Windows 7 & XP, hate Windows 8, how are they going to be sold Microsoft's new phone on the strength "it's the same as our new PC desktop" ?
  1,000% this.
  Forced change, even forced positive change, will be perceived by consumers as a negative one. If in their mind "Metro=bad", there will be no differentiation between Metro on the desktop, on the tablet, and on the phone. It's "the UI I hate", even if it would have otherwise been accepted by them on a phone or tablet. Apparently no one took "human nature" into account when designing the system.
2. Re:If Windows 8 is a dud, WP8 will suffer too by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 05:38 · Score: 0
  
  Don't worry. The pro-Microsoft shills will ask you 'Have you used a Windows phones before?' and say Windows 8/the MetroModern UI is really, really good for touch devices.
  And they're wondering why Windows phones only has about 3% of the global smartphone market share.
marketing spin... by schlachter · 2012-09-27 02:05 · Score: 5, Funny

This new ver of Windows introduces many new features. So many, in fact, that we're still finding and counting them.

--
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1. Re:marketing spin... by arth1 · 2012-09-27 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  What scares me are the amount of planned features that act like bugs for many users. Like automated full-screen of applications, or assumption that the mouse will stop when it hits a corner (tried Windows 8 with multiple monitors or in a VMware window?), or no sane way to work with more windows than you have screen real estate for, or no way to close unwanted programs unless they give you an option.
  Honestly, the only UI I find worse than W8 is Gnome 3, for many of the same reasons. The "features" might as well have been bugs.
2. Re:marketing spin... by sosume · 2012-09-27 06:58 · Score: 0
  
  Explorer in Windows 8 absolutely rocks. Just ignore the Metro crapware, and with some tweaking you won't even need the start menu any more. With the new task manager, powershell, multi-monitor task bar and all the new functions in the ribbons, Windows got a lot more usable.
  The downside is that they removed Media Center, but that was quickly replaced by MediaPortal. And the new control panels confuse the hell out off me, because you have the classic control panels folder, but also in the metro interface with full-screen settings apps. It took a few weeks but I'm actually liking Windows 8.
Touch Screen by Larry_Dillon · 2012-09-27 02:06 · Score: 2

Most of what I see in Windows 8 is a touch screen-centric interface. If you have a tradition desktop with a keyboard and mouse, it looks like a Pre-School, Fisher-Price interface.
Microsoft sees tablets and touch-screen devices as being the way of the future and desktop PC not shipping the their previous volumes. This may be true, but dumbing down the PC even more to accommodate touch-screens is not the way forward.

--
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1. Re:Touch Screen by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · 2012-09-27 02:26 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  It may be true that mobile touch-screen devices are the way of the future but, desktop/laptop systems are never going away (or at least, not for a very long time). Mobile devices are great for web browsing, short texting and reading emails but for productivity applications, you need a desktop. In other words, if you want to author Word Documents, create web pages, create PowerPoint Presentations, create and test code for applications (including mobile apps), do graphic design, etc, you need a desktop system. Also, what works for touchscreen, on-the-go devices doesn't necessarily work for a laptop/desktop. I guess Microsoft lost sight of this when they tried to create one operating system to rule them all.
2. Re:Touch Screen by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:00 · Score: 0
  
  not really, they NEED the desktop and it's many developers to make apps for phones and tablets so they can beat Apple. That is why they are forcing all desktop users into this mode. Developers, developers, developers.
3. Re:Touch Screen by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:21 · Score: 0
  
  I've got no problem with one OS to rule them all. That makes a lot of sense from a compatibility and maintainability stand-point, but thinking that one UI can rule them all within that one OS is nonsense. What they seem to have learned on the server-side (don't they have a version that is pretty much just a terminal/shell now?) is lost on them on the desktop-side.
4. Re:Touch Screen by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · 2012-09-27 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  I've got no problem with one OS to rule them all. That makes a lot of sense from a compatibility and maintainability stand-point, but thinking that one UI can rule them all within that one OS is nonsense. What they seem to have learned on the server-side (don't they have a version that is pretty much just a terminal/shell now?) is lost on them on the desktop-side.
  Yes, that's what I meant because Microsoft's case, the UI is inseparable from the OS>
5. Re:Touch Screen by Missing.Matter · 2012-09-27 05:40 · Score: 1
  
  You can indeed separate the UI by outright replacing the explorer shell. See:
  
  http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
  http://www.emergedesktop.org/
  http://sharpe.sourceforge.net/
6. Re:Touch Screen by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 05:47 · Score: 0
  
  Slashdot circa 2002 - "Windows XP SUCKS! And its Fisher-Price UI is HORRIBLE."
  Slashdot circa 2012 - "Windows XP is works great so why would I ever upgrade to Windows 8? Windows 8 SUCKS! And its Fisher-Price UI is HORRIBLE!"
  If I want news for nerds and stuff that matters, I read other sites. If I want to see comments that are out of touch with reality, I come to Slashdot.
7. Re:Touch Screen by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-27 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  Which would be why Win8 does retain the desktop.
8. Re:Touch Screen by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-27 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  You can't rip Metro and its gestures (corner swipes) out that way, however, since they're handled at a level lower than the shell.
odd releases by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · 2012-09-27 02:15 · Score: 1

It kind of perpetuates the notion that every even release of Windows sucks. I've had 98, XP, Vista and Windows7. Vista was a dog and I've heard that ME was bad, as well. Now, I'm hearing Windows8 (at least, on the desktop) is bad.
1. Re:odd releases by PortHaven · 2012-09-27 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  Well, 95 & 98 were both fairly decent advancements. And at least one of those had to be an "odd" release. Same with 2000 and XP. Both fairly decent releases. So one of those had to be an "odd" as well.
2. Re:odd releases by pod · 2012-09-27 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  ME came between 2000 and XP.
  
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  "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
So let's get this straight... by PortHaven · 2012-09-27 02:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

Users experience the most radical UI change since DOS added Windows. And shockingly, 53% percent prefer the older more familiar Windows 7.
You know what this really means folk? Microsoft actually succeeded. If you can get 47% (or just shy of half) of users to prefer a new completely radical UI experience. You've done something really really right. As I'd expect 80% to prefer that which they're familiar with and have used since 1995.
Let's use our brains, and look at this data for what it really is. A measure of a decent amount of success. 50/50 on a new experience is good. Heck, probably didn't have that much higher support when XP or Vista came out. And those were incremental changes.
1. Re:So let's get this straight... by sinij · 2012-09-27 03:32 · Score: 1
  
  I disagree. I remember when I was using DOS with Volkov Commander, then tried Window 3.0 and was blown away. That was radical UI change, and I never went back unless I had to, like to deal with 64K issues.
2. Re:So let's get this straight... by CannonballHead · 2012-09-27 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  Let's use our brains
  Sorry, it's a Micro$oft/M$ story. Brains turn off, because everyone knows they can't do anything good. Why waste brainpower. ;)
  Seriously, I was going to say the same thing. Almost 50% LIKE Windows 8 better than Windows 7 before it's even released? Man, that's huge. Being used to something causes people to forego all kinds of things.
  It's all how you spin it, I suppose. Politics in tech discussions. :(
3. Re:So let's get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:45 · Score: 0
  
  Queue up a 47% joke in 3.... 2....*points*
4. Re:So let's get this straight... by tokul · 2012-09-27 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  If you can get 47%
  
  You just have to make sure that your pool audience is not biased. As in "does not have alternative OS or prior Windows version" experience.
5. Re:So let's get this straight... by Voyager529 · 2012-09-27 03:53 · Score: 1
  
  That depends on how they calculated that 47%.
  If these are users who got 10 minutes to play a preinstalled copy of Cut the Rope on a prototype Surface tablet, I'd expect 47% of people to appreciate that. If that same 47% preferred the touch-based e-mail client over Outlook on a $399 Black Friday laptop special when using a trackpad...then that's a completely different statistic. Now the article does imply that this was a somewhat informal poll based upon voluntary responses, so I guess the odds of trying it out on a Surface tablet are a bit remote. Conversely though, people installing Windows 8 at this point are almost invariably technically savvy at some level. Joe Sixpack doesn't generally install release previews of an OS or have a TechNet subscription to get the RTM bits, so you'll likely end up with people who have figured out how to tweak Win8 to their liking with Start8 or ClassicShell or similar, and are basing it on those merits rather than the actual Metro UI.
6. Re:So let's get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:53 · Score: 1
  
  47% didn't prefer the new UI. 25% did. RTFA.
  53 liked the old, ~25 the new, others didn't prefer one over the other.
  Let's use our brains and not make up stats that don't exist.
7. Re:So let's get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:55 · Score: 0
  
  now too bad they didn't pick Windows users who personally installed and used Firefox or Chrome as their browser and see what percentage of those accepted Windows 8 over the Windows 7 UI. This would be of interest because many of the naive Windows _users_ I've run across consider Microsoft the end-all-be-all software company and trust them as their only source for software. They are biased towards what Microsoft does already. But find the users who understand they have choices and believe others can make great software and those numbers will likely move quite a bit to the other side and not look like a win for Windows 8.
  Doesn't it also seem funny that quickly starting and stopping the OS is their favorite feature?
8. Re:So let's get this straight... by Missing.Matter · 2012-09-27 04:34 · Score: 2
  
  It seems that everyone here hasn't actually read the article (yourself included). First, to just address your post while 53% answered their favorite Windows OS was Windows 7, only 25% answered that their favorite was Windows 8, with the other 25% answering Windows XP or other.
  
  However, when asked "Which OS have you used before" only 26% answered they've even used Windows 8. This is not even a survey of only windows 8 users. 74% of the people answering this survey have not even used Windows 8. This is even more obvious when looking at some of the concerns being compatibility, price, and system requirements and no options for reboot shutdown sleep since a) Windows 8 is compatible with the vast majority Windows 7 drivers and software b) Windows 8 upgrade is only $40 c) the system requirements are *exactly the same* as Windows 7 and d) there are in fact options for reboot shutdown and sleep (I have no idea why anyone would think otherwise).
9. Re:So let's get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  If you can get 47% (or just shy of half) of users to prefer a new completely radical UI experience. You've done something really really right.
  These 47% think they like whatever slop comes down the chute. It's not my job to worry about them.
10. Re:So let's get this straight... by UnknowingFool · 2012-09-27 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  Well you look at the poll taker demographics to gauge things. The group taking the poll actually have gone out of their way to use Win 8 in beta. Mostly IT geeks. Most consumers won't experience Win 8 till they get new computers. The reaction from this group may be different.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
11. Re:So let's get this straight... by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-27 09:13 · Score: 1
  
  This would actually make sense if Win8 only had the new UI. But it also has the classic desktop mode, with the only major difference there being the lack of the Start button. So if someone can get over that, they can use it in pretty much the same way as Win7, completely ignoring the "new and radical" side, and still be content because of various small improvements that are relevant on the desktop side of things.
12. Re:So let's get this straight... by Waccoon · 2012-09-27 19:08 · Score: 1
  
  Because the market isn't big enough for more than one type of desktop.
  Billions to develop and OS, and the things that pisses everyone off is the location of a few buttons. Nope, can't put 'em back, and you can't change a couple scripts to add/remove buttons. Want to add a shortcut to your working folder in the file requester? Nope, the UI is too hard-coded to allow that. With a billion dollar industry at stake, it costs too much money to give people options, you see.
  Kind of reminds me of localization. If you want to enjoy the profit of foreign markets, you'll have to spend the money to translate to different languages. Stop whining that translation costs money, because if you don't like it, you can just lose out on millions of dollars worth of sales.
Re:I would still roll back to WindowsXP. by Junior+Samples · 2012-09-27 02:35 · Score: 1

I prefer Windows XP as well. I played with Windows 7 for a while, but had problems with a new Asus ATI graphics adapter that provides an HDMI output for home theater use. Windows 7 crashed several times producing the "Blue Screen of Death" after the adapter was added. I switched back to Windows XP and haven't had any problems since. I haven't found any compelling reason to use Windows 7. Linux would be my second choice after XP for home theater use.
i prefer windows8 by iamagloworm · 2012-09-27 02:36 · Score: 1

i would still not choose to use as my main working OS, but I see it as a great improvement over windows 7.
Correction... by HerculesMO · 2012-09-27 02:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

Windows 8 isn't buggy... it's unfinished and unpolished. What is there works well.
The desktop and metro side by side experiences make you feel like Microsoft put a lot of effort into getting the system running fast, smooth, and seamless, and then forgot to do anything with the desktop, or bring over any of the options. I posted about this yesterday, but suffice to say, Windows 8 is really great in terms of technical prowess, but the UI is unfinished, unpolished, and jarring, to say the least. And this is coming from somebody who actually *likes* Windows.

--
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
1. Re:Correction... by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2012-09-27 04:38 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8 isn't buggy... it's unfinished and unpolished. What is there works well.
  I disagree - when I'm on the desktop and it takes me multiple steps to log out, AND there are no visual cues to tell me how to do so... that's not "working well".
  Admittedly it's not being buggy either - it's just flat-out bad design. An OS should get out of your way, not actively impede your progress.
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
2. Re:Correction... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:42 · Score: 0
  
  People don't shut down through terminal / run prompt?
Been using the RP over 3 months now... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 02:54 · Score: 0

I've been using the Release Preview as my primary OS for over 3 months now. Personally, I look forward to the full retail release and will be upgrading day 1 to it. There are a few issues that stick out due to it being touch-centric but overall it works better than Windows 7.
What I like:
-The Desktop is cleaner than Win7, with icons and gadgets turned off, and the taskbar set to hide, there is zero hint of any toolbars and the only thing visible besides the mouse pointer is the text at the bottom right for the Release Preview build information.
-I don't have to dig through menus/folders to find the shortcut to a program, they are all on the Start screen and instantly visible once accessed. It used to take clicking on the Start menu and digging down through multiple folders to find the right shortcut, now it just takes clicking the Start "corner" and then clicking the visible icon. Commonly used programs are pinned to the Taskbar of course.
-The flat interface is less gimmicky than Win7's Aero, it feels more polished and professional.
-The Task Manager is beautiful and far more useful than before.
What I don't like:
-Having to move the mouse all the way into the last 1 or 2 pixels of the corner to active the Start screen, and worse yet activate the charms bar is very annoying. I would rather there be a visible button to click for each corner, yes a return of the Start button would not be out of the question so long as it just brough up the Start screen and not a menu.
-The Control Panel is overloaded with too many utilities/functions.
-Default apps like the Music player and Media player suck donkey balls. It always pisses me off when I double-click a media file and end up kicking over to Metro for one of those stupid apps. Setting VLC to be associated with all formats has helped.
-There is no close button for Metro apps. As a gamer I am opposed to having unnecessary apps running in the background even if they are in a suspended state. It is annoying as Hell having to press Alt+F4 to kill them. I really want a 'X' button at the top right of all apps.
-Companies have been really slow to announce support or update their software for Windows 8, in particular: iTunes & Steam.
Overall, Windows 8 has been rock-solid for me. It has never crashed once and performed well. Even though I have a beast of a gaming rig and use an SSD, I do not get anywhere near the 10-15 second boot times that others have stated. My fastest boot has been 37 seconds. Perhaps it's because I only reboot to install updates and no longer shutdown. The last time my computer was off was over 2 months ago when a heat wave knocked out power long enough for my UPS battery to run low.
1. Re:Been using the RP over 3 months now... by ray-auch · 2012-09-27 04:25 · Score: 1
  
  -Having to move the mouse all the way into the last 1 or 2 pixels of the corner to active the Start screen, and worse yet activate the charms bar is very annoying. I would rather there be a visible button to click for each corner, yes a return of the Start button would not be out of the question so long as it just brough up the Start screen and not a menu.
  Relatively easily fixed. I've done it - I found myself moving mouse to start button area on auto pilot and launching IE so often...
  Step 1:
  Create a file startscreen.vbs (yeah I know, powershell nicer but too slow to start up). Contents:
  set oShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell") oShell.SendKeys("^{ESC}") set oShell = Nothing
  Step 2:
  Create a shortcut to startscreen.vbs on the desktop.
  Step 3:
  Open properties on the shortcut and change the target property to:
  C:\Windows\System32\wscript.exe C:\Users\[[my user name]]\Desktop\startscreen.vbs
  Change the drive location & path to script as required.
  Step 4:
  Still in shortcut properties, change the icon. %SystemRoot%\System32\imageres.dll has a windows icon in it. Close properties.
  Step 5:
  Right click the shortcut and "pin to taskbar". Move it to left hand side. Job done.
2. Re:Been using the RP over 3 months now... by man_of_mr_e · 2012-09-27 05:24 · Score: 1
  
  FYI, you can close Metro apps by moving the mouse to the top of the screen, "grabbing" the app and dragging it down to the bottom.
  Poof.
  
  --
  If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
3. Re:Been using the RP over 3 months now... by WolfgangPG · 2012-09-27 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  You can close Metro apps by placing your mouse in the top middle of the screen. A hand icon will appear instead of a mouse point. Click and hold, then drag the screen down to the bottom as if "throwing" it away. That is how you close metro apps.
4. Re:Been using the RP over 3 months now... by poofmeisterp · 2012-09-27 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  Good work.
  Or maybe Microsoft could just put the freaking start button back in the lower corner of every windows, AND still allow for the other switching and charm options.
  Wait, they're looking for complaints to give them the best "free development ideas" for 8. Damnit.
Who cares if Windows is liked or not by devent · 2012-09-27 02:55 · Score: 1

Who cares if Windows is liked or not. Half of the installs are coming on pre-installed whether you like it or not. The other half is coming from the businesses that have to upgrade because of finished support for Windows XP/Vista or 7. So it really don't matter how you like your Windows, in 5 years Microsoft will still have 80% market share of Windows 8.
Really, Microsoft have a monopoly on PCs and Laptops that comes from the a) Office format, b) games and c) applications. Microsoft can put one turd after another on the market, as long as it is compatible with the old Windows applications, it will be an instant hit (compare with the alternatives like Linux or MacOS).
What you want to choose as an alternative? MacOS, where half of your applications and games are not working (and costs double of that of PCs)? Linux, that you have to install yourself (plus the same problems of MacOS)?
So maybe, the anti-trust commission of EU or US should finally look at this grip of death, and should care less about the stupid choice of browsers.
I myself am using Linux now for 4 years exclusively on my laptops. Linux installation is finished in 10 minutes and if you enter in Google "Laptop xxxx Linux" then you can be sure that everything works before you buy the laptop. Also KDE is looking way better and is more functional that I have seen anything yet from Microsoft or Apple.

--
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
1. Re:Who cares if Windows is liked or not by neminem · 2012-09-27 03:08 · Score: 2
  
  Or... maybe someone else should come up with a new better OS and get people to try it? KDE is a joke. Pretty much every Linux GUI is a joke. MacOS is actually pretty nice these days (though pre-10 it was a joke too), but the whole trying to be a walled garden thing is a bit of a turnoff. Ok, yes, the more of a joke Windows becomes (and Win8 is a pretty big joke too), the more people might feel like trying some flavor of Linux, as it could hardly be -less- useable... but still. Anti-trust commissions of various places can't exactly regulate into existence a new non-sucky OS if none actually exist, or regulate that people have to use it. They have merely to regulate that if someone -did- create a new OS that was better than Windows, Microsoft isn't allowed to smash them to bits with frivolous lawsuits until they died or anything. Which I wouldn't put past them to try.
  Too bad OSes are kind of a monolithic undertaking to design... I think we're kinda stuck with the ones we have.
2. Re:Who cares if Windows is liked or not by devent · 2012-09-28 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  Can you elaborate why KDE should be a "joke"? because I'm using it every day since 4 years now. Gnome 3 is a joke that I agree, because it stays in your way while you try and get your job done. Xfce is for me to simple and the other Desktops I don't feel like to invest time to figure them out.
  Compare please Windows 7 file explorer and Dolphin. Or the Windows 7 start menu and KDE start menu. Or the panels and widgets of KDE. I find the one in KDE way better, both in design and usefulness.
  KDE is like Windows XP or Windows 7, but much more useful, and user friendly.
  OSes are not monolithic. In Linux you can change your desktop to what you like. Ubuntu Unity, Gnome 3, Gnome 2, KDE4, Xfce, Enlightenment, etc. It's only Windows that is monolithic in design, where you can't really change the Windows desktop to KDE4, for example (which I would very like do).
  
  --
  http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
Re:Windows and the Star Trek movie principle by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · 2012-09-27 02:57 · Score: 1

Always skip every other iteration.
Yes. agreed. I'd mod you up if I could.
doesn't matter, it's what Microsoft wants by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:02 · Score: 0

Microsoft needs the changes in Windows 8, ie the UI formerly known as Metro and it's programming APIs, to create one massive developer community so they can beat down Apple. They have nothing on the mobile device side to compete and without apps everything there fails.
So the real question is, what percentage of complainers does it take to force Microsoft to change? Probably not 50%.
1. Re:doesn't matter, it's what Microsoft wants by poofmeisterp · 2012-09-27 06:47 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft needs the changes in Windows 8, ie the UI formerly known as Metro and it's programming APIs, to create one massive developer community so they can beat down Apple. They have nothing on the mobile device side to compete and without apps everything there fails.
  So the real question is, what contributions of corporate complainers does it take to force Microsoft to change? Probably not 500M$.
  Modified that for ya.
Re:I would still roll back to WindowsXP. by Lucky75 · 2012-09-27 03:04 · Score: 1

How long ago was this? The ati drivers are pretty decent now for win7.

--
DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
Re:I would still roll back to WindowsXP. by Billly+Gates · 2012-09-27 03:24 · Score: 1

UGH.
I love my ATI card and AMD chpset and view them as great quality. However, the drivers are very problematic. I am very careful to watch the version number as I have HDMI setup with my monitor due to a flaky on board sound (... dont ask). Sometimes I have a black edge as the driver thinks my monitor is a TV with underscan. Sometimes it goes away, but VMWare goes bizerk with my USB chipset drivers even when I do not use it. Yes I went into the registry to make sure the AMD filter driver was not installed but no luck.
My computer's ASLR protection is SHUTDOWN because of the crappy driver version. The latest fucks up VMWare where it takes 5 minutes to mount a flash drive and the version in between forgets my HDMI settings and puts the black underscan back in but the later too put ASLR sandboxing protection back into the kernel for safe browsing.
So 12.3 is my lucky driver number and I have flash uninstalled except for Chrome as it is a security risk due to the terrible drivers. I would recommend Junior Samples to try 12.3 as they are the most stable. ... sadly I only went ATI because I had issues with Nvidia BSOD due to buggy hardware. I can never get a break. Crappy drivers is an understatement.

--
http://saveie6.com/
Mostly Agreed by Voyager529 · 2012-09-27 04:06 · Score: 1

I agree that the Metro music app is annoying...almost as annoying as the full-screen PDF viewer. I prefer Win7 Aero to Win8 - it seems unnecessarily bright, and changing the color to be a bit darker makes the title bar text hard to read. The Task Manager is epic, and I must be one of the few people who find the ribbon on Explorer really handy...though admittedly I keep my copy of XYPlorer close by as well. I'm a bit irked at the start menu situation, since my start menu is fairly well populated, so it's a "seek and ye shall find" situation that's a lot more difficult to deal with than a densely populated start menu. Granted Metro is worlds better than a standard start menu on a touch interface, but I don't have one of those on my laptop.
I've got a Seagate hybrid drive on my laptop, along with a Crucial Adrenaline SSD cache, and I can personally vouch for the 15-second startup once you've gotten past the BIOS. I don't know what your specs are, but it's entirely possible that the bus speed of your RAM or the number of services that start with the machine bump that number up.
You have to get Customer feedback by elabs · 2012-09-27 04:12 · Score: 1

You can't just make a product in total secrecy and then declare it done and have the world accept it. You need to iterate. Get a version out there, let people use it, take measurements and feedback then pivot. That's what made Windows 7 so successful. Even Steve Jobs admitted to taking customer feedback (eventually). Personally I am enjoying Windows 8 very much and I find myself going into Windows 7 (dual boot) less and less. There are a few annoyances (mostly around the metro/desktop boundary limitations) but for the most part it's great.
I love Windows 8, over Windows 7 by ninjacut · 2012-09-27 04:23 · Score: 1

Pretty sure these folks has not used it enough to realize the advantages. They probably picked more from all the anti writers about it. Nothing is lost from Windows 7, and lot to gain. Its a trash survey
1. Re:I love Windows 8, over Windows 7 by WaffleMonster · 2012-09-27 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty sure these folks has not used it enough to realize the advantages. They probably picked more from all the anti writers about it. Nothing is lost from Windows 7, and lot to gain. Its a trash survey
  Care to enumerate the gains you experienced?
2. Re:I love Windows 8, over Windows 7 by ninjacut · 2012-10-11 11:36 · Score: 1
  
  Here is the list - 1) The performance is snappier - boot, wakeup, application launch, task switching, almost everything is faster than Windows 7. My 5 year old laptop cold boots in 12 seconds, and wake-up is instantaneous 2) Start menu - It is a better replacement to original start menu, takes some time to get used to but not much. - Applications can be accessed quicker, all the common tools are just right click-lower left corner or just start typing when on start screen. Very convenient - WinRT applications are very snappy, even switching tasks with video (left click- upper left corner)have zero lag. - Side by side is useful, for consumption. Any more parallel tasks run just fine in the full desktop mode - Live tiles are better than static shortcuts, why? you don't need to open those to see any updates. Just a quick glance is enough to be catch-up things of interest. One click on Win key and you are then back to your work - Charms menu left click-upper right corner is also useful, all application specific context, settings and search is available. No need to navigate to folders and menus for that 3) Desktop Mode - This works exactly like Windows 7, and is required for any serious work. All said and done, touch has its limitation and real work gets done by keyboard and mouse. But having both options is better than having just one. 4) Built in antivirus - no nagware, updates or system slowing antivirus to worry about. It totally runs in background 5) Task Manager is much improved, keep it simply or get more details 6) Full backward compatibility, everything I had on Windows 7 works in Windows 8. All drivers, CAD, RC simulator, ESC programmer, everything In my view it is the best Windows version, and a must upgrade
Metro, Shmetro by spirit_fingers · 2012-09-27 04:29 · Score: 1

I'm not a huge fan of iOS, but to Apple's credit, at least they confine their tablet interface to tablets. I fail to see how Metro on a PC without a touchscreen makes anything better.
And wouldn't it make more sense for Microsoft to see if Surface Pro is a hit BEFORE they drag desktop users to Metroworld?
1. Re:Metro, Shmetro by Mike+Buddha · 2012-09-27 04:59 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not a huge fan of iOS, but to Apple's credit, at least they confine their tablet interface to tablets.
  ...as OSX creeps closer and closer to iOS UI.
  
  --
  by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
2. Re:Metro, Shmetro by spirit_fingers · 2012-09-27 12:57 · Score: 1
  
  Clearly you don't use either iOS or OS X. Because if you did you'd know that while OS X may have adopted some features from iOS, the GUI remains as distinctive as ever.
Only 26% surveyed actually used Windows 8 by Missing.Matter · 2012-09-27 04:45 · Score: 1

Let's take a look at the title of the story again, shall we? "Even Windows 8 Users Prefer Windows 7" Now let's go ahead and read TFA: When asked "Which Windows Operating System have you used before?" only 26% of survey takers responded they've even used Windows 8. So let me get this straight: 25% of survey takers say Windows 8 is their favorite OS, yet only 26% of survey takers say that they've even used Windows 8. If my calculations are correct, and please, correct me if they are not: According to this survey 96% of Windows 8 users report that Windows 8 is their favorite Windows OS (assuming that no one who has not used Windows 8 checked it as their favorite).

But no, let's not even read the article or report any statistics in the summary. Let's just bash until our heads turn blue.
Re:Gee, maybe if they had listened to their users. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:51 · Score: 0

Giving us the option of running Metro apps in a window alongside our other desktop applications would have satisfied me. After all, the idea of running tablet and smartphone applications on your computer IS sort of attractive (there are a few programs on my phone which I wouldn't mind running in a little window on my desktop). But forcing the user to use these apps in giganto-vision full-screen mode is... weird.
Misleading story title by Mike+Buddha · 2012-09-27 04:58 · Score: 1

Shouldn't the title read: SOME Windows 8 Users Prefer Windows 7?
Doesn't have the same impact when you tell the truth, eh?

--
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
Comment removed by account_deleted · 2012-09-27 05:07 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yawn... by erik+umenhofer · 2012-09-27 05:15 · Score: 1

I come to slashdot now for random science stuff and mindless microsoft bashing. That said. Everyone I know who has used Win8 for more than a few minutes loves it. Also, when I see a survey from a random help forum...don't you think the results will be skewed?
Otellini quote by ThatsNotPudding · 2012-09-27 05:17 · Score: 1

One of his quotes was: "Windows 8 is one of the best things that ever happened to Intel", meaning to this wag that Win8 is a bloated, CPU-sucking pig that will need every possible clock cycle thrown at it, requiring a new computer or at the least a new CPU and motherboard for yet another new proprietary socket and RAM spec. Profit!
1. Re:Otellini quote by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 08:15 · Score: 0
  
  Windows 8 as the same hardware requirements as Windows 7
I Prefer Windows 2000 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 06:00 · Score: 0

Every version of Windows that has come after Windows 2000 hasn't really had anything new to offer except the need to pay for it again. I'm still running it as my primary work machine. I have an XP box for the occasional game, and Linux servers for all the rest.
Win8 Rush Job by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 06:24 · Score: 0

I think this was a panic product. Seemly "easy" OS adaption so MS could get a product to compete with Smart Phones and Laptop OSs.
Re:Gee, maybe if they had listened to their users. by jbolden · 2012-09-27 06:36 · Score: 1

How do you design Win32 applications to support vastly different PPI?
How do you design Win32 applications to support vastly different scalings?
How do you design Win32 applications to support menus that change size and style based on device?
etc...
There was no way to keep everyone happy. They had to make choices.
Puppet by poofmeisterp · 2012-09-27 06:41 · Score: 1

Apparently he did say Windows 8 wasn't ready — but added that it was still a good idea to get it out before the holiday season."
So how far does the hand extend up into the puppet's rear? I'm just curious because if it looks like a puppet, sounds like a puppet, acts like a puppet..... well... yeah.
Re:I would still roll back to WindowsXP. by couchslug · 2012-09-27 07:14 · Score: 1

"Unless I have a machine with 8gb of usable ram"
2003 Server can be used as a desktop.

--
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Delay by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 07:26 · Score: 0

When Windows 95 looked like being delayed even more* Bill Gates is alleged to have said "Windows 95 will be out by Xmas, but we may have to delay December for a couple of months".
* it was originally supposed to be out in April or so. There were a few months where purchasing was delayed waiting for it. Meanwhile WFW 3.11 continued to be produced (on many diskettes) and these had to be stored as they weren't selling. This then became known as 'Windows for Warehouses".
Win8 is fast stable cool and HARD to like at first by johnwerneken · 2012-09-27 07:29 · Score: 0

It's hard to like at first, whether one likes gesture/touch for input or not. And the interface formerly known as metro needs a lot of work. Even so, the boot time is responsive, its pretty good at stability and drivers for a new platform, the iso mount and hypervisor are cool and work well. I've mostly used just win8 and Ubuntu since February. In my view there are similarities between them...
Pretty sure MS is required to Hose Every Other OS by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 07:43 · Score: 0

95 Good, 98 Junk, 98SE Good, ME Junk, XP Good, Vista Junk, 7 Good, 8 ... Guess.
Go Figure.
Re:I would still roll back to WindowsXP. by Junior+Samples · 2012-09-27 08:06 · Score: 1

About 4 or 5 weeks ago. I downloaded the latest Win7 drivers from Asus when I installed the card. I would get random Blue Screen crashes on Win7 after switching from Intel motherboard graphics to ATI graphics card - nothing that I could make happen on demand.
Re:Windows and the Star Trek movie principle by mcgrew · 2012-09-27 08:20 · Score: 1

He was modded redundant, and the comment was in fact repeated several times in this thread. "It's a fair cop, gov!"

--
Free Martian Whores!
I don't care how great you thought it was, MSFT... by Loopy · 2012-09-27 08:26 · Score: 1

I didn't ask for a completely different UI. I actually LIKE Win7 as is. It's (so far) rock solid stable. My ATI and NVidia drivers Just Work(tm). The apps for the most part all use a familiar menu/hotkey structure so all those little keyboard shortcuts still work without me having to learn new ones (we won't talk about Office 2010's changes to that.../grumble). On the off chance I download an app that does crash or I experience a beta video driver crash, everything recovers at least well enough to allow me to close my work normally and reboot at my leisure. I don't have performance issues after weeks of uptime. I don't have app compatibility issues. I don't have any complaints about being able to find stuff. My desktop and start menu work the same way they've worked for most of the last 10 years.
WHY? Why would you think Metro is something I'd want on my desktop? I partly understand re: tablets but my desktop??? It's bad enough that I'm considering going out to buy another few copies of Win7 just in case family wants to upgrade older PCs (or have me build new ones) expressly so that when Win7 disappears from shelves, we won't be forced onto it.
Then again, if the linux nerds could get their heads out of their asses (I'm looking at you, Ubuntu Unity/Gnome3 idiots), and more game developers start supporting it, I might just start migrating everything to linux.
Re:Gee, maybe if they had listened to their users. by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-27 09:04 · Score: 1

How do you design Win32 applications to support vastly different PPI?
How do you design Win32 applications to support vastly different scalings?
Same as you always did for the last 20 years if you knew what you were doing. Either use a UI framework that transparently handles it for you (e.g. WPF), or use the Win32 API calls that provide you the relevant information and recompute UI layout and widget sizes based on that.

How do you design Win32 applications to support menus that change size and style based on device?
Same as you do it in Win8 - alter your UI based on OS-provided info.
Win 8 is what Microsoft wants, not what users want by dtjohnson · 2012-09-27 09:13 · Score: 1

Here's what I want in a new version of Windows:
a) awesome compatibility - It should run every piece of Windows and DOS software ever written...and do it well. Moreover, it should be able to use ANY windows device driver ever written for my beloved favorite hardware.
b) it should boot up in less than 10 seconds and do hardware checking in the background.
c) It should provide a simple console to show ANY communications by any process with anything external to the system and have a right-click option to permanently stop or restrict any process.
d) it should recognize and translate any common CD, DVD or digital media format into video and/or music out of the box.
e) nothing should be able to execute without my explicit prior approval that I can easily and freely revoke with a simple console.
f) Nothing should ever be able to modify the registry without my explicit approval at the time of the modification and there should automatically be a permanent time-stamped backup made prior to a modification.
etcetera...
Come on... by bigt405 · 2012-09-27 12:05 · Score: 1

It's really not that bad, I'm running it now. For my main day-to-day usage, I'm still in the desktop. The Marketplace is limited, but with a nice large trackpad with supported drivers I don't feel like a second class citizen. This OS is faster and does everything I used to do with Win 7, and it's *certainly* worth $15 to upgrade. I use a few "Not Metro" apps too, simply because they get the job done in a more direct and beautiful way than before. I was a huge skeptic and the "Previews" truly sucked. However, the full release is really much more usable and very much polished. I've found a number of annoyances with Windows 7 to be *fixed*, not more broken. I still have a few complaints with it, but honestly far less than the junk GNOME has thrown recently.
on what? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 13:38 · Score: 0

Windows 8 is not better than Windows 7 on touch of touch enabled... So all those who are sulking, shutup and keep running 7 or something else on the desktop or old laptops.... if it wasn't M$ you would be complaining.
Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 13:49 · Score: 0

since alot of people here use linux i gotta ask would it be possible for nvidia ati etc.. to enable virtual extentions in video cards so that something like virtualbox could do games instead of trying to fight with wine? doesnt intel and amd do this on their cpu with the vT thing?
and at that point just make windows a freaking app that you launch to play ____________?
I want to keep Windows 7 by s1mon75 · 2012-09-27 17:15 · Score: 1

Would you be content paying a subscription if Microsoft continued to support and develop for Windows 7? I would. I already have an Android device, and I don't want my PC to look like a Tablet. Then again, when Google creates their OS which runs on X86 architecture will I even use Windows in the future?
We're too used to interface pioneered by Win95. by MtViewGuy · 2012-09-27 18:33 · Score: 1

I think the reason why people prefer Windows 7 to Windows 8 is simple: _we are all used to the user interface Microsoft pioneered with Windows 95_.
Indeed, if you compare Windows 95 and Windows 7 side by side, the UI commonality is surprising striking, even with all the improvements done to the Taskbar especially from Windows Vista on. Because Windows 8's interface is essentially a total redesign from the ground up, it could be quite some time because end users get used to the new interface, which is designed with touchscreen operations in mind.
Expect a Microsoft touchpad soon by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 20:07 · Score: 0

Does it make sense? Yes, it does when you're Microsoft and can release a little bit of cheap hardware that, all of a sudden, changes the rules of the game. Remember how awful it was to be continually scrolling with the scroll bars before an _usable_ mouse with a wheel appeared? Suddenly scrolling felt easy and natural.
Windows 8 are missing few big misses to be succesf by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 21:20 · Score: 0

Put back the startbutton, put back windows aero glass theme, and the opportunity to start in desktop mode, then windows 8, will the next big win and succes for microsoft
My Win8 experience by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-28 06:44 · Score: 0

I upgraded my Win7 PC to 8 via in-place upgrade, in the first week it was available to MAPS. I don't like the Metro interface or the start screen. But, having installed the Stardock Start8 start-key, I very seldom access either, I boot straight to my desktop and that's where I work.
I had a problem with a no longer supported legacy device, but found an easy workaround and now it's working perfectly. My Win95 accounting package which wouldn't run under Win7 unless in XP VM mode, happily installed and runs natively on Win8.
I guess I'm just lucky everything is up and running and I don't do the chicklet screens.
I'm still hoping that Microsoft will understand that not everybody wants Metro forced down their throats and will bring out a fully supported Start button. Their current attitude just looks childish, but the OS is perfectly usable and stable.
2 UIs in one OS is a recipe for disaster by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-28 21:54 · Score: 0

I've been using Win8 for 6 months and find it schizophrenic. Basically until all applications are ported to the metro interface, people will switch to the Win7 mode to be productive. The problem is, is that each mode has a different UI. This is not only confusing but gets annoying to the point where I just kept using the Win7 mode and never used the Win8 apps.
Early adopters of course by cavebison · 2012-09-29 21:28 · Score: 1

So early adopters of a completely new UI still prefer the old UI they've been used to for decades. Wow.
Microsoft particularly, however, aren't having a good time with their recent UI changes. The last two Visual Studio versions have been met with complaints. VS 2010 because of UI slowness and difficultly to customise. The latest, VS 2012, "Metrofication" created an uproar. http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/filters/top
What bothers me most about Win8 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-01 00:26 · Score: 0

Isn't necessarily the UI (although it is terrible), it's the fact that Win8 is intentionally designed to work with Intel mobile CPUs that perform inaccurate floating point calculations as a trade-off for low power consumption.
This trade-off is completely unacceptable in the realm of desktops/servers/laptops/whathaveyou.
There is no possible way that Windows 8 can ever be certified for use for architectural/drafting design, medical use, military use, accounting, software engineering or even general corporate use (Just think what sort of subtle bugs will appear in Excel calculations now), because of the CPU calculation bugs that are deliberately allowed by and acceptable to the operating system.