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Valve: Linux Better Than Windows 8 for Gaming
dartttt writes "In a presentation at Ubuntu Developer Summit currently going on in Denmark, Drew Bliss from Valve said that Linux is more viable than Windows 8 for gaming. Windows 8 ships with its own app store and it is not an open platform anymore and Linux has everything they need: good OpenGL, pulseaudio, OpenAL and input support."
He's just angry that Windows Marketplace is going to cut into his donut funds.
I've read alot about companies saying win8 is bad for gaming yet very few are actually willing to put their money where their mouth is and actually produce linux native games (or at least games that work perfectly well under wine). Couple that with the lack of installed userbase with capable hardware and the commercial aspects of linux don't really stack up. As much as I'd love to run mint full time its stuck on its vm currently or on underpowered hardware (where linux really shines as a desktop making old/low powered hardware useable!) neither of which are gaming capable.
The only thing tying a lot of people (myself included) to Windows is gaming. With how much I hate the new ModernUI, I've been taking another look at going back to Linux as a main O/S.
What I fear is that Valve will dive deep into Linux, and then suddenly realize that supporting software like steam and games on Linux may be a bit more challenging than they thought it would.
The myriad hardware types out there with myriad sets of less-than-optimal drivers might present myriad problems, even if Valve does master the video-card/opengl end of things. I know I get vastly different experiences with Ubuntu depending on if I install it on one desktop versus another versus my laptop. They all have their own sets of issues, and none of them are remotely perfect.
This whole affair with valve just reminds me of some computer user adopting a new platform with vim and vigor...and then realizing it's not all it's cracked up to be a few weeks or months later. I myself did this with mac, but it took a couple years for me to come to my senses, unfortunately.
There are MANY legitimate reasons why Linux on the desktop has not taken off. I fear that Valve just hasn't encountered the right set of those reasons yet.
I think the reason is because Windows 8 to me seems more like a tablet OS instead of a PC OS. But i would love to see a push towards Linux as the new platform for gaming. But it would require more big names to push that direction also as Valve seems to be pushing.
Windows 8 isn't had for gaming, it's just bad for Valve. Vale has wanted Steam to be a general App Store for a long while, and if regular plebes start using the Windows Marketplace, they'll lose that battle before they even begin. Valve's just concerned with their potential market being at risk.
Steam works the same in Windows 8 as in Windows 7 from what I've seen thus far. There is no way most gamers would buy a game in the Microsoft app store if the same game was available on Steam. Seems like Valve is more concerned about the competition from the Microsoft App Store than about how open Windows 8 as an O/S is.
If they move to Linux they will fail. I myself am a gamer and all my friends who also game aren't techies. There is no way in hell they will be installing Linux on their computers.
If they focus their product dev to Linux it will sink the company.
Valve is one of the most influential companies in the gaming world. If they speak people will listen.
This single statement will cause thousands of gamers to check out Linux.
This is a market that is willing to spend hundreds of dollars and hours of tweaking to gain a few percent more performance. Any rumour about a better system will cause a flood of gamers that want to be the first to get the advantage.
Maybe only Windows 8 is better on Windows 8 than on Linux.
Maybe Unless specifically designed to be the other way around.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
You make a good point, but Valve has the clout to pull this off and negate your argument.
sig: sauer
Now the interesting question is if Valve will release a standardized system specs and the a steam linux release creating a de facto "Valve Box".
7>XP. Sorry, AC Chief.
In this case, Valve's agenda is the lesser of two evils. Either MS gets their way and Linux desktops continue with the relatively sparse gaming library compared to Windows systems, or Valve gets their way and at least Linux gets a lot of the titles that were formerly Windows-only.
I'd rather a viable company scheme be one that operates within the structure of the general structure of Linux based desktops than requiring Windows or wine. Purists can still run their desktop with the same (or even better) selection of truly free software, and the rest of us can use a free desktop without compromising or dual boot to get at a few titles we really would enjoy.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The problem with Windows 8 is that it isn't the best choice for anything anymore. Want to run old Windows apps? Want to run old games? Want to develop new games (as in TFA)? Want to run current Windows apps? Want a tested, stable Windows platform? Want a minimal hardware Windows platform? Whatever your question, there are better alternatives than Windows 8. Microsoft has really dug themselves into a deep hole at the moment...and the implications for the future are breathtaking.
The heading is somewhat misleading. I think that this should be clarified that Linux provides a better environment for game development. Linux has not actually hit that tipping point of having more available games.
Steam is already an effective and popular app store on Windows. And they hope to become the proprietary app store on Linux. That's why Valve is so dead against Windows 8 - Microsoft could take away their status as the app store.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Roll another Debian-a-like, tailor it to games, market it through Steam to Windows users and say "Why update to Windows 8? Here's a free OS. Live boot it and see if you like it."
Disclaimer: the author is tired of keeping a creaking XP partition going just for Steam, and would bite their hand off to get in on a beta and help out.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Valve is already releasing their game. When will you be releasing yours Mr. AC? And when do you expect to surpass Valve in revenue?
-- Linux user #369862
I was there for the talk. He didn't really say that "Linux is better for gaming." Given the current user base, state of drivers and various flux in the stack, nobody in their right mind would say such a thing.
What he did say is that Ubuntu is an "open platform." Not really the same thing as "better," unless you're a writer at an Ubuntu fanboy site.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
What the fuck are you talking about? I'm running windows 8 right now with with your piece of shit bloatware steam running constantly in the background. If that's not an open platform maybe I don't understand what an open platform is. Just because MS has a program exactly like your program, but not as intrusive, you have to go around name calling? I'm not a fan of the Win8 market program, and I'll most likely never use it, but that doesn't "close" the OS. The OS works just like every other windows OS. You can install still anything you like on it.
As soon as there is a single fully working audio stack for linux that doesn't require fidgetting with configuration like crazy to get it to work, and it's compatible with *all* games, then you're a step closer to being viable.
Except the fact that getting bluetooth mouse/keyboard to work is a huge pain unless you buy one of the specifically linux supported bluetooth sets, but I pick my hardware based on quality/price, not OS support because I shouldn't have to (and don't with windows).
Yes, open is great, but until every hardware company is ensuring a simple fully functional driver for their devices on it and there is a common interface for software to all of those drivers ala directX/directSound, windows will be a better gaming platform even for linux enthusiasts. Unfortunate, as all the software stacks that do exist for linux tend to outperform windows by a fair margin, because of significantly better OS architecture.
Simply put, it's a problem of robustness and consistency. When I want to shoot zombies I don't want to have to restart my sound system or HID system and re-enter pin codes and set defaults again, nor do I want to spend weeks configuring and scripting auto-configuration setup for such a thing. So it's a waste of game developers time to try and target linux when they live a crunch-mode life as it is with huge risk of flop resulting in practically no money-back for the effort even when they're focussed on only one OS.
Now, Microsoft is focussing on providing a strongly-preferred application distribution system for Windows and extracting a share of the revenues that go to application distributors (on top of what it already gets from them by charging for dev tools, and from the fact that application distributors who target Windows preferentially are what drives demand for Windows and enables Microsoft to sell it at the prices it does.) That's a pretty big change, and it makes it much more worthwhile for firms that currently make money distributing applications to put their own efforts behind platforms where the platform vendor isn't doing that.
Yes, it is. That doesn't mean it will be in the future, particular if firms like Valve decide that its not where they want to focus their efforts. Being the #1 gaming platform is a result of where game developers focus their efforts, after all.
The typical mouse wheel works for zooming in and out by discrete amounts, not for something more continuous such as adjusting a photo's crop rectangle, and definitely not for rotation. Image manipulation programs designed to be used with a mouse instead use control handles of various sorts, and the user can't change the size, center, and rotation all at once the way one can with two fingers on a touch screen.
Given that I need pixel perfect precision, why won't I just zoom with the scroll wheel on the mouse and keep my hand comfortably rested on the desk, instead of lifting it all the way up (and I got 3 30inch monitors) to touch my screen, then wipe it off finger marks and rest it again on the mouse?
As for rotating... you might be amazed at how often I have felt no need or desire to rotate anything whatsoever on a computer screen. I have however felt the need to hit small links, select text quickly and easily and right-click on stuff.
Please, can one of the people with a touch screen and a screen setup that is NOT on laptop heights but work-safety recommended heights with large multiple monitors (and there are no affordable large resolution touch screens or even "oh my god I could buy a car for that" ones) tell me how holding my hand above eye height for input is easier, faster and more comfortable?
I will even accept that lots of smudges on your screen might have some kind of desirability to some.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
And as long as you don't need HD full screen video cutscenes.
For one thing, since when does 1080p video not work on a PC? I thought even YouTube got that to work. For another, a lot of games especially from Valve do cut scenes with the game engine, so if the game works in 1080p, so do the cut scenes.
Ubuntu has an app store too
Unlike Windows RT and the WinRT environment of Windows 8, Ubuntu does not prohibit home users from permanently adding third-party PPAs.
Last time I checked, IE6 was the reason people stopped using IE. It's was never a monopoly, and it should have never been even accused of being one. I'm curious, without IEx how you would even go about getting another browser? Thank goodness it's on there or how would you ever even replace it!
Well, that's just false. You don't have to use the app store to install a WinRT program. So either you're ignorant or a liar. There is no third option.
You keep saying in other posts that WinRT will replace Win32. If you have some sort of citation that proves that Win32 will be phased out, I'd love to see it. But knowing it doesn't exist, please stop stating it as if it was a well known fact. Since Win32 isn't going anywhere I don't know how you get off contradicting me that Win8 isn't an open platform. It's not like game publishers are going to start using WinRT as a replacement for Win32. And even if they did, it's still an open platform.
The most important thing that this article just glosses over is the fact that Steam isn't a game API. It doesn't help run games in any way on Linux. The people responible for creating the game must make the game work in Linux. Steam is nothing but a DRMed front end launcher. I would much rather launch my games by running the game's executable and not have some TSR bloatware that acts as some sort of shortcut to the game executable.
In that situation, wouldn't you be happy to have the precision that a mouse gives you.
That is why when I installed steam recently for the first time, I encountered two errors, both with extensive user provided workarounds involving rebooting in special mode to get around rights issues. On perfectly normal PC with perfectly normal Windows 7 64 bit.
Companies like Valve maintain expensive banks of PC's just to test all the countless configurations possible and STILL fail to deal with all of them as the extensive work arounds available to deal with a INSTALLER show.
Compared with that, Linux is FAR easier. With Linux Valve gets EXTENSIVE support from volunteers eager to help Valve out. With MS they can go die.
The fact that Ubuntu for FREE just works so often when paid for Windows so often does not, shows this. Linux sure has its moments but I can always find help to fix it and so can Valve. With windows? re-install. That is your payed for MS support.
I think Valve will be smart enough to create a default distro which works on listed hardware and for everything else, the community will find an answer. If they can get Linux running on a GBA, everything else is simple. Linux community is one who takes "doesn't work, can't work, the universe will explode if you try" as a challenge. Hell, right now, with no official support, you can run many games just fine with just Wine thanks to users helping users.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
There's no good gaming APIs to use. Where is the DirectX equivalent?
Developers have had no trouble with OpenGL on iOS and Android. Why would PCs be different? Direct3D benefits Microsoft due to lock-in, but I have a hard time seeing how its use benefits developers. And even Microsoft's usual advantage of legacy compatibility isn't really an issue here, since the market for Doom clones and WoW clones (the only PC games that the gamer crowd cares about as far as I can tell) moves so fast that everything is being rewritten every year anyway.
Linux does have other problems with its graphic subsystem: the lack of open drivers for nVidia, the lack of any decent drivers for AMD/ATI, and most of all the 20 layers of legacy crap that the typical Linux desktop staggers beneath. But this has nothing to do with the underlying API for 3D games, which is clean and simple OpenGL.
WinRT is the new API that was introduced with Windows 8 and Windows RT. WinRT is locked down on all platforms. I have to keep reiterating this to enraged Microsoft fanboys because they miss it every time.
Come on, don't you miss the good ol' days of DOS gaming?
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
It is pretty much identical to Windows 7's gaming performance, with some minor exceptions (which will likely be fixed with driver updates or game patches over time). Don't just take my word for it either, check out the conclusion to this article from TomsHardware:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/windows-8-gaming-performance,3331-13.html
William George
Gaming is one of the few activities on a computer that requires Windows. Getting support from a high profile Developer and buisness like Valve seems like what is needed to finally break that requirement, or at least to get the process going. It seems like a lot of people are skeptical of the viability of this, but I certainly am happy to support a move away from Windows, especially given the direction Windows 8 is taking the OS. Valve is probrably one of the most respected companies and leaders in the gaming industry, and hearing them promote Linux like this is really fantastic. Steam moving to mac is great and all, but it would be a shame if valve put a lot of effort into getting onto such a restrictive platform after taking the effort to get off of another restrictive platform. I really hope Linux becomes their primary focus to move people too. Linux for desktop still may have a future after all!
Only enterprise edition joined to a domain, o yea, people play games on company machines, educate yourself before making comments
Preparing PCs for sideloading apps on enterprise PCs
Currently, the Consumer Preview and Windows Server 8 Beta are classified as “enterprise sideloading enabled.” This means that when a PC is domain joined, it can be configured to accept non-Windows Store apps from their IT admin. Moving forward, this functionality to install non-Windows Store Metro style apps will be available for Windows 8 Enterprise Edition and Windows 8 Server editions.
On an enterprise sideloading enabled edition, the IT admins needs to verify:
The PC is domain joined.
The group policy is set to “Allow all trusted apps to install”.
The app is signed by a CA that is trusted on the target PCs
It's not games that keep Windows as a dual boot on my computer. It's Adobe's DRM for ebooks. When the publishers adopted it, Adobe promised to implement it on the major platforms, including Linux. But the Linux one never materialized. Anyone know why?
Publishers like TOR and Baen have a significant advantage when they're trying to sell me ebooks -- I don't have to reboot to Windows to buy them.
That's the marketing line, to keep the technologically ignorant from getting confused. In truth, Windows RT (that is to say, the ARM version of Win8) fully and officially supports sideloading, so you can get your apps from anywhere that you can download an APPX package (which is just a ZIP archive, much like an APK) and the cert it was signed with. It's actually trivial to install them, too; Visual Studio builds a script for you that does everything needed quickly and easily.
There is also a (very unofficial) way to run third-party desktop apps on Windows RT already. It actually isn't really a big hack; Visual Studio handles ARM as a compile target even for desktop apps, and you just then have to sign the EXE and get Windows to use your certificate when doing the signature check (the last bit is the only hackish part, and it's not very complex at all). Unlike sideloading of "Metro"-style apps, this is actually something that isn't supposed to be possible, so I can't be sure they won't patch it out, but for now it works fine.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...