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Windows Browser Ballot Glitch Cost Firefox 6-9 Million Downloads
nk497 writes "Microsoft's failure to include the EU browser ballot in Windows 7 SP1 cost Mozilla as many as 9 million Firefox downloads, the organization's head of business affairs revealed. Harvey Anderson said daily downloads of Firefox fell by 63% to a low of 20,000 before the ballot was reinstated, and after the fix, downloads jumped by 150% to 50,000 a day. Over the 18 months the ballot was missing, that adds up to six to nine million downloads — although it's tough to tell if the difference has more to do with Chrome's success or the lack of advertising on Windows systems. The EU is currently investigating the 'glitch,' and Microsoft faces a massive fine for failing to include the screen, which offers download details for different browsers to European Windows users, as part of measures ordered by the EU to balance IE's dominance."
$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski
We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.
Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?
Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.
If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.
I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.
Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.
Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.
I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.
If Natalie Portman is not measurable, She is Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!
You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.
My reputa
Buggy whip manufacturer claims auto companies don't advertise the buggy whip option!
We're calculating lost downloads, now? And I thought lost sales due to piracy was a stupid metric...
As long as it's a monetary fine, M$ won't worry about it. If it's an actual, punative reaction the hire lawyers and drag it out for years while they go ahead with their scheme. Either way, they win.
Why must MSFT be forced to advertise for a competitors browser?
If you get a cheap car perfume for free with your car, should the car manufacturer be required to provide you a choice for 5 companies to select your perfume from?
Yeah and jf only that one woman hadn't refused to marry me 18 months ago I'd have 15 wives by now!
The title has the word ballot in it, but let us be perfectly clear that this story is not related to the United States Presidential elections next week,nor about the close race in Ohio or the latest Romney ad that claims Chrysler is shifting Jeep production to China.
It's a good thing that they demand this of Microsoft. I mean, without setting this precedent, how else could we be offered the chance to freely and without jumping over hurdles obtain Firefox (or Chrome, for that matter) on our iPhones?
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
How do you explain something like this? Would you think with all the people Microsoft has in their employ they would assign the duty of EU Compliance Checklist Monitor to someone?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Hah! If you believe it was a glitch, then I have a bridge to sell you. Noone in Microsoft noticed this issue for over a year? No QA process found this?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
I was interviewed for changes that need to be made to slashdot, my number one annoyance is the idea that any slashdot comment would ever be shared. They're all stupid, none are worth being shared on any social network site and it makes the site look like crap. Well, I was hapy to see them dissapear thining that my input rang true to them, but now they're back. Bastards!
"It's a direct symptom of socialism. That's what you get when everyone is entitled to a cut of everyone else's work."
Socialism?
I do not think this word means what you think it means.
Hey "journalists!"
PLEASE DEFINE what a "browser ballot" is. YOU SHOULD BE WRITING FOR YOUR AUDIENCE. I am a technical savvy engineer and do not know the nature of this "ballot." Your summaries should either define what you are talking about explicitly or have a direct link to the definition of what you are talking about, preferably the prior.
THANK YOU.
Where's my browser ballot on OSX? ios? lol...Damn that greedy Microsoft...
The "glitch" is a result of OEMs integrating the wrong version of service packs into their images.
When they integrate the non-EU version of a service pack then the image won't present the "ballot screen" to the user.
... you can extrapolate every data. just assume a function you like, feed it one ore two data points and start extrapolating.
Whether you pefre Milton Friedman to the Fight Club school of economics or not, they both share one thing in common. The Chicago School of business (ethics) taught that there is only a simple cost/benefit calculation necessary to determine whether or not to follow the law. If the cost breaking the law is less than the cost of getting caught, you break the law.
In the Fight Club, Ed Norton's character extends this argument to an example a cost/benefit question regarding a potential automobile recall for a flaw resulting with potentially life/death consequences. It's a great example of the need to temper 'free market fundamentalism' with the understanding that there are moral and ethical questions which, if left to those who equate only $'s and market dominance to success.
Since market dominance is reinforces itself (i.e, "Nothing succedes like success."), if we want corporations to act ethically or morally, we need leadership from above. And after Hurrican Sandy, my faith that God will save us, or even inspire us, to address the brewing catastrophes ahead from the anthropomorphic effects we're creating on the planet, has 'dried up'.
But the EU is another story. My hope is that they fine Microsoft the maximum and realize that it's not enough, thereby changing their laws to increase the penalties for rigging the market. Perhaps that would give U.S. senators and representives a working model from which to address the corporate architecture of our society.
Nah... God is a better bet.
I still have a hard time understanding why Microsoft even plays along with this. I would be like "It's my OS, it will have my browser. Suck it or don't use it."
Oh the EU fined me? Knock knock. Who's there? Fuck off! (Trailer Park Boys)
Why isn't other companies like Apple forced to include a browser selection screen in OSX?
Firefox sucks. Long live Chrome!!!
Maybe if you would not only read your own comments, you'd find those which are not stupid.
IE isn't even the most popular browser in most EU countries any more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Countries_by_most_used_web_browser.svg&page=1
And according to Wikimedia usage stats, at least, it's not even leading in usage share any more, anyway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
Pundits are already predicting the end of Microsoft as a dominant player in the industry (which *is* a bit of an exaggeration, so far at least), yet they are still forced to adhere to an almost 10-year old anti-trust decision (an eternity in the industry). In other news, the EU is also considering sanctions against US Steel for their dominant control of the industry in 1955.
...there have been 6-9 million Firefox versions too...
So, does this mean that the only reason Firefox is getting those downloads, is because users are bored and pick a pretty icon from the list? :)
Cause even bing.com shows Firefox download page on the first page of "Firefox" query so I'm not sure I can believe in extra 50K people not being able to get Firefox if they want it.
I know users sometimes are not smart enough to find and download something, but this is ridiculous...
Hyperom.com
When is the EU going to go after Apple for some of these same things?
When I want something, like say Opera, I am smart enough to know how to download and install it. You use The Google, click on the first link, and just keep pressing either the biggest buttons visible or the 'next' and 'accept' buttons until it's been installed. Are nearly 10 million Firefox users too dumb to do this?
Participants in industry lobbying for strong copyright protection is a direct symptom of socialism now? I suppose that might be the case -- is some land of up-is-down, wet-is-dry, and day-is-night.
Well, its more what you get when copyright holders (not everyone) is entitled to a cut of any work that leverages the material on which they hold the copyright (not "everyone else's work" with no qualification), or, what you get with unbridled, strong-property-rights capitalism. Some aspects of the French economy may reflect the fact that, overall, the French mixed economy features more influence from socialism than the mixed economy in, for example, the U.S., but the particular copyright issue between French Newspapers and Google isn't one of them. You'd probably have a better case that the "fair use" limitation on private property rights in copyrights in U.S. law (the reason there isn't a similar big issue in the U.S. as there is a France and other parts of Europe) is a direct symptom of socialism and, particularly, the idea that "everyone is entitled to a cut of everyone else's work".
it wasn't to balance IE's dominance, it was the address MS's abuse of Windows' dominance. wasn't it?
Because this is what Microsoft agreed to.
Its not a decision, its an agreement they entered into to avoid a trial and a resulting decision. Its quite possible that an actual decision, rather than a negotiated settlement, would have involved greater up-front cost but less in terms of long-term, ongoing restrictions. Microsoft made a choice that they'd rather have what they are now subject to than take the risk of the kind of fines and other up-front consequences at risk in a trial. That may or may not have been a bad decision in retrospect, but it was Microsoft's decision.
Presumably when Apple first has a monopoly in some market, and then illegally leverages that monopoly to gain power in an existing, separate market, and then makes a settlement agreement like Microsoft made to resolve the anti-trust charges over that leveraging, and then violates that agreement the way Microsoft did that is at issue here.
They should develop a search engine to use to push their browser on people and then make the browser install the wrong place to avoid windows protections. If by-passing windows protections is good enough for private data stealing malware then it's good enough for a browser.
It's been six (6) days and still all Windows Live accounts can't change passwords and a lot have been deauthorized on the UW Seattle campus.
I mean, it's just a drive across the bridge from Redmond, and they can't be bothered?
Now THAT isn't a Glitch, it's a Feature
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I agree that they have the abuse part down pat though.
Now those who read slashdot are in the minority and younger users have no quarrel googling chrome
Chrome owns everything you view through their browser. (no they didn't take that part out. hint: it's in their main EULA which all their others include). And they are certainly using everything everything you do for marketing purposes and probably sharing everything with the government (no warrant needed because you already gave away your data).
Most users are pretty dumb
Indeed.
9 million * Free Browser = $0
Mozilla should sue Microsoft for $0 worth of damages.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
And you don't know the difference between interpolation and extrapolation.
Extrapolation makes assumptions about future and they fail when something extraordinary happens in the future.
Interpolation makes assumptions about past - it's like assuming that missing numbers in 1 2 3 4 ... ... 7 8 9 should have been 5 and 6. Knowing that actual numbers there were 1 and 2 we can assume something out of ordinary happened. Like MS messing up the ballot, for example.
The graph shows an initial peak (when the ballot is introduced?), followed by a decline (and even a big drop in the start of 2011, before the ballot box debacle). Most of the decline in 2011 was quite steady. If they really claim the ballot box was the driving factor, shouldn't there be more of a discontinuity?
(I personally use FF and think the ballot is a good thing - I don't have to manually download FF from the Mozilla site. But when claiming a "loss", you need hard numbers to prove it. The graph, IMO, doesn't support that claim).
Are people in the EU too stupid to download the browser they want?
angelo abarentos is bakla
As long as I have my choice to install what I want concerning browsers it shouldn't be an issue. If MS wants to install IE with its own OS go right a head. I can just go out and download Firefox or some other lame browser that everyone thinks will do something other than show you your internet crap. Yea, I think it does come down to people wanting something like a "cut" of the profits so they dream up these laws and polices to get a "cut". Come on, a Monopoly? If I still have a choice and can execute my choice as a consumer (which I can) then what else needs to be said? What's next...? I install Firefox but then find out that my Firefox toolbar has to give me a choice between Firefox's tool bar or Safari's tool bar? If I buy a 12 pack of Coke I don't want 11 cans of coke and 1 can of Pepsi... I can go get me that 1 can of Pepsi if I want it that bad. Sorry if I make this sound to simple for most of you awesome lawyer's out there. But arguing is what they all want then they can focus on screwing us.
Surprise, you thought right. Your thinking today, however, is a different matter. You do realize that it's impossible to discuss causal relationships in any meaningful way without projecting counterfactuals. Sometimes you have a projectable baseline, sometimes you don't. Many times the causes of things are a hazy guess. It's only regret that's 20-20.
The problem with the music industry's desire to claim every download as a "lost sale" is that there were a lot of download donkeys out there downloading every song on the planet just for the hell of it: adolescent hoarding behaviour to piss off The Man. Few of these people were prepared to pay $30 for a CD of any description, or a dollar a tune, or even a nickel.
I tend to keep a lot of my crappy photographs. It doesn't cost much to keep them around, and you never know if there might be something of value you don't realize until later. (Did we remember to rotate the tires? Oh hell, this old photo of the dog fetching a stick with the truck in the background tells me we didn't.) If a 1000 crappy photos cost me $5 a year to archive I'd probably dump the majority. Hoarding on the margin does not translate into giant revenue streams.
In the Mozilla situation, one might presume that anyone downloading Firefox as their initial default browser was at least going to give it a fair spin (this can be a short as two minutes, but probably averages at least an hour).
Unfortunately, given the proliferation of shovel-ware we can deduce that first encounters are sticky regardless of intrinsic worth or quality. In the real world we have special senses to determine when we've stepped in something we should scrape off our shoe at the first opportunity. On the net, people are forced to use their brains, with woefully uneven results. Ideally, people would gravitate to the best solution placing far less reliance on the first kiss, but that's not how most humans roll.
That's what I thought... of course it won't stop big government from using it as an excuse to take a handful out of a deep pocket.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi.
SO, in regards to that?
Disprove my points on custom hosts files' benefits to end users I will put up yet again now in my 'p.s.' below (even though it doesn't really apply to the article topic, but it does to make you look like the FOOL you are, troll - with ease)...
* I am going to ENJOY watch you "fumble" you bumbler, & do more of your b.s. that's so far off-topic it's not funny - hence your downmod, AND, this reply from others to you, nutjob -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832445
APK
P.S.=> Disprove these points on custom hosts - you can't & You know it, I KNOW IT, as does anyone else reading with 1/2 a brain:
AdBlock only operates on Mozilla products!
AdBlock's written in slower javascript/perl/python, & operates in SLOWER ring 3/rpl 3/usermode, LAYERED OVER ALREADY SLOWER ring 3/rpl 3/usermode apps in browsers (vs. custom hosts operating in ring 0/rpl 0/kernelmode, merely acting as a filter for the IP stack which is written in C & Assembly language - FAR faster!).
AdBlock also can't speedup your favorite sites and protect you vs. DNS poisoning (as well as making access to your fav. sites more reliable), and more where it's inferior to custom hosts files...
So - IF you don't want to be:
A.) Tracked ...& more?
B.) Spammed
C.) Speed/bandwidth hogged by ads (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well)
D.) Hit by malware or malicious scripts (for better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth")
E.) Hit by DNS poisoning redirection (OR DNS servers being "downed") losing reliability
F.) Blocked out & have even more 'anonymity' (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's)...
---
APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:
http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74
---
Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):
---
1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites.
2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware.
3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use.
4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers.
5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content.
6.) Blocking out known spammers &/or phishers.
7.) Blocking out TRACKERS.
8.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution).
9.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).
10.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs).
11.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).
12.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!).
13.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).
14.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers & are generally written in slower INTERPRETED languages (e.g. AdBlock = python/perl/javascript)- Whereas by way of comparison, the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself which is written in C & Assembly language...).
15.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).
16.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.
---
*
Not to worry - I replied in the link below & gave AC troll "something to chew on" (whom you chastised for his reprehensibly off-topic trolling b.s. & failing illogical ad hominem attack attempt on my person)...
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41843003
He'll keep "off-topic" & avoid the challenge I gave him there - he ALWAYS does, since he has to... it's amusing to me!
* Whoever the nutjob is doing it is, I must have really, Really, REALLY "upset his delicate ego" by BLOWING HIM AWAY on computing-technical oriented material here, it's their "geek angst", lmao!
(These "wannabe geeks' can't STAND that, lol, & I know it - however, is it MY FAULT they're technically weak? No!)
APK
P.S.=> In any event, see subject-line above, & also the trolls FAILING yet again attempting to disprove my points on custom hosts files I posted for their reference in the link above... making them look stupid? Too easy - since they are!
... apk
"many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments" - by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01, @12:32PM (#41843313)
Oh, really? Where?? If so, do so now... See my subject-line above!
(LMAO - You can't disprove points I made on custom hosts files, & I know it, YOU KNOW IT, as does anyone else reading here!)
---
"You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade" - by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01, @12:32PM (#41843313)
Ok, then I'm listening (yet again to MORE off-topic b.s. from you with NO substance or backing, i.e. -> LIES)... go for it!
Disprove my points on hosts files benefits to end users in added speed/bandwidth (saving them money they pay out for it to an ISP), added "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", added reliability (vs. downed or DNS-'poisoned'/redirected DNS servers), & even added "anonymity" to an extent (vs. DNS request logs) & more... far more.
"And I'm not the timecube guy, " - by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01, @12:32PM (#41843313)
Riiighhttt... b.s.!
---
"just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time." - by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01, @12:32PM (#41843313)
Oh, I see - so YOU posting off-topic & being a troll is "constructive use of your time"? Come on... you're wasting YOUR time!
* Typical b.s. from yet another AC troll in yourself yet again, but nothing to back up your "b.s." as per YOUR usual...
APK
P.S.=> Of course, these fellow "/.'ers" of yours disagree with you as well (in a HUGE r110++:1 ratio against you) as well as myself, & EVEN A SECURITY PRO:
---
* THE HOSTS FILE "UPMOD" GROUP 38++ THUSFAR (from +5 -> +1 RATINGS, usually "informative" or "interesting" etc./et al):
APPLYING HOSTS TO DIFF. PLATFORM W/ TCP-IP STACK BASED ON BSD: 2008 -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1944892&cid=34831038
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1490078&cid=30555632
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1461288&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=30272074
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1255487&cid=28197285
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206409&cid=27661983
0.0.0.0 in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1197039&cid=27556999
0.0.0.0 IN HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1143349&cid=27012231
0.0.0.0 in HOSTS:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27580299
0.0.0.0 in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139705&cid=26977225
HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1319261&cid=28872833 (still says INSIGHTFUL)
APK 20++ POINTS ON HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1913212&cid=34576182
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1869638&cid=34237268
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907266&cid=34529608
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725068&cid=32960808
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1743902&cid=33147274
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1862260&cid=34186256
HOSTS MOD UP:2010 (w/ facebook known bad sites blocked) -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1924892&cid=34670128
HOSTS and BGP +5 RATED (BEING HONEST):2010 http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid
"Ah, but my posts are so much shorter than yours" - by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01, @01:06PM (#41843683)
YET ANOTHER LIE from this troll (see his nutty post here -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832417 )
* The only thing SHORTER you have? Is your "pencil" (between your legs... lol!)
APK
P.S.=> So much for YOUR line of 'b.s.' here troll:
"many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments" - by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01, @12:32PM (#41843313)
Again - WHERE is it? Clue - "It ain't", as the saying goes... lol!
Considering there's a 110++:1 ratio against you "right-off-the-bat" from your /. peers, a security pro, & myself... & I still don't see where you disproved my points on hosts files... you fool!
... apk