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Apple Delays Simpler and Cleaner iTunes 'to Get It Right'

Hugh Pickens writes "iTunes has been criticized in the past for being slow and growing increasingly unwieldy as more and more media types have been added to what used to be simply a music player. Apple announced iTunes 11, the latest version of the program, at its iPhone 5 event in September and said the update would be released by the end of October, but Apple's deadline for the upgrade has slipped. 'The new iTunes is taking longer than expected and we wanted to take a little extra time to get it right,' Apple told technology site AllThingsD. 'We look forward to releasing this new version of iTunes with its dramatically simpler and cleaner interface and seamless integration with iCloud before the end of November.' The update is said to be the most significant upgrade to iTunes in the 11-year life of the program, which has grown from a simple music player to the most powerful retailer in the music business — and a force in the movie, television and e-books businesses — and, on Apple's PCs, the portal to its app store."

252 comments

  1. Better upgrade by 54mc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thanks for the warning, Apple. Now I know that I need to upgrade now, before you remove my favourite functionalities.

    --
    Joy! Beautiful spark of the gods!
    1. Re:Better upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thanks for the warning, Apple. Now I know that I need to upgrade now, before you remove my favourite functionalities.

      As much as I hate Apple, it's assholes like you that made iTunes the elephantine mess it is today. "THIS IS MY FAVOURITE NICHE FUNCTIONALITY YOU TOSSERS SO YOU BETTER KEEP IT IN OR ELSE. Why not just get rid of all those useless other features I don't use? I'm certain I won't mind. Just ignore everyone else who posted this exact same message in regards to a different feature and keep focused on ME."

    2. Re:Better upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Glad to see someone uses Ping.

    3. Re:Better upgrade by dhermann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not trying to flame you, but to what features do you refer? The Visualizer? iTunes DJ Shuffle? Ping? I would really love it if iTunes were streamlined for PC so I could quickly plug in my iPhone and sync, not much else. I like the iStore, so please keep that? I could kind of do without 30 modal popup window clicks every time an iPod is plugged in and not recognized. Or maybe, my iPod would always be recognized, like I ran on a Mac. That would be cool.

    4. Re:Better upgrade by firex726 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Reminds me of one major update where a new feature they were touting was a new and improved visualizer.

      Really? Who sits at their computer just watches 3D rendered shapes change form? This is a selling point for the general audience? Why did you spend Dev time working on this instead of making the program more stable or streamlines; or even a USEFUL feature?

    5. Re:Better upgrade by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      I wouldnt worry about that, Im sure theyre trying to make sure it runs as well as possible on OSX while remaining as buggy as possible on Windows.

      They really have a knack at that, and Im looking forward to what they managed to pull off this time.

    6. Re:Better upgrade by SomePgmr · · Score: 3, Funny

      I wouldn't say it should be anyone's first priority, but music players have had that since we were wearing onions on our belts (as was the style at the time). Some folks must want it.

    7. Re:Better upgrade by JDG1980 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wouldnt worry about that, Im sure theyre trying to make sure it runs as well as possible on OSX while remaining as buggy as possible on Windows.

      That makes little sense from a business strategy perspective. They make most of their profits from portable devices; desktop and laptop hardware, despite its visibility, is secondary in financial terms. When they had the only decent smartphones and tablets, they could get away with having iTunes work crappy on Windows and hope to maybe guide a few users onto OSX with promises of better support. But now that Apple faces serious competition from the new generation of Android devices, this roadblock risks losing market share in portables for no good reason. I think they're serious about fixing iTunes on Windows this time.

    8. Re:Better upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a software issue; insiders say it's a licensing issue with one of the studios.

    9. Re:Better upgrade by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Oh, it never made any sense. Ever. If you're going to offer a service, offer a good service (it just works, right?). I imagine that the first introduction to Apple for many folks was an iPod. On Windows. So with iTunes being the enormous cluster-fuck that it is/was and likely will be on Windows, where is the Apple Experience?

      Even if they had to hire programmers from Microsoft themselves, it seems like they could have been arsed to do a better job.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    10. Re:Better upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, staring at the visualizer when you're on LSD is pretty goddamn amusing.

    11. Re:Better upgrade by firex726 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Staring at air is amusing when you're on LSD.

    12. Re:Better upgrade by Belial6 · · Score: 0

      The problem is that Apple really wants to be an abusive monopoly. They just never seem to be able to get hold of and hang on to the monopoly part. I have always felt that it was because they would pull out the abusive part WAY too soon.

    13. Re:Better upgrade by Hypnotoad3000 · · Score: 1

      I do!

    14. Re:Better upgrade by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      It's not a great feature for listening to music on your own, but with friends and at parties, it's great.

      Just hook up your computer to a big TV or projector and you have an instant light show to go along with your music. Great for setting the mood.

    15. Re:Better upgrade by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Why did he get labeled "troll" for speaking the truth? Hell ALL the big companies have been royally fucking up the UIs left and right trying to make everything for the damned tablets! Apple, MSFT, hell even Linux is now in on it with Canonical and Unity, the "future" is gonna be mass consumption whether you peasants like it or not!

      The royal bitch is now that they are also forcing "the cloud" down everyone's damned throats a lot of times you can't even hang onto the old software, because it won't interface with the servers and you're fucked! I don't know how many times I've had to deal with pissed off customers because major features have been removed in their favorite software only to tell them "Sorry I don't control the servers at (Insert Apple, MSFT, etc) so I can't make the "better version" work anymore than you can, all you can do is deal with it or move to something else."

      It's a royal pain in the damned ass, that's what it is. At least before they'd use focus groups and at least TRY to give people what they wanted, even if they fucked up the execution. Now its like the entire industry has said "Fuck you, its tablets first now, everything else...well who cares, we don't" and that is that.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    16. Re:Better upgrade by alcmena · · Score: 1

      I hate Apple's philosophy. That said, I believe they make great software. The Apple TV is better than any product for my kids and I that I can find. I have a Nexus Q, and it sucks. There is a reason Google pulled it from the market. Anyhow, even with my love for the Apple TV, I recognize the home sharing works much better from iTunes and Windows. The OSX version runs out of connections and can't free them properly. In this case, Windows spanks the OSX version. You have to constantly restart the OSX iTunes version to keep home sharing working. Windows iTunes "just works" and does so really well. Yes, plural of anecdote is not data, but look it up yourself and I think the data speaks for itself. Apple may pretend to prefer their OS, but Windows and iTunes just works better if you want to network the devices.

    17. Re:Better upgrade by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the warning, Apple. Now I know that I need to upgrade now, before you remove my favourite functionalities.

      As much as I hate Apple, it's assholes like you that made iTunes the elephantine mess it is today. "THIS IS MY FAVOURITE NICHE FUNCTIONALITY YOU TOSSERS SO YOU BETTER KEEP IT IN OR ELSE.

      Apple seems to consider setting your own bitrate for ripping CDs a niche feature, burying it in a custom menu choice the way they do. At this point I can still only choose from 128 or 256 kbps for threshold on transcoding to transfer to iPod if the files are over that bitrate. So I can either gobble space on the device with Apple Lossless files. Or have any 320 kbps files get degraded by double-compressing to get them down to 256.

    18. Re:Better upgrade by Xest · · Score: 1

      That or the fact it's just one of those things that can be quite fun to program, meaning even if no one wants it you can guarantee some dev is going to want to implement it.

    19. Re:Better upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is probably in all music players because it is in all music players before it.
      Also, I think it is probably quite fun to code

    20. Re:Better upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they bring back the colorful icons, all will be forgiven. Well, mostly all.

  2. Like the podcast app? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I welcomed the podcast app until I had to use it.... It came out with too many fingers and a flipper. What a POS.

    1. Re:Like the podcast app? by jongalbreath · · Score: 1

      Agreed! It's a total piece of shit. Unlike when Music played everything, the device seems to forget that I was listening to a podcast and will start some random song instead, or I'll hang up the phone and a podcast I wasn't listening to before the call will start playing. Nice Apple. Good job on that fancy reel-to-reel animation though...

    2. Re:Like the podcast app? by firex726 · · Score: 2

      FYI, you can move the Podcasts back into the Music app.

      Install and run the Podcast app.
      You'll see all your Podcasts there now.
      Go back to home screen, and close app in the background as well.
      Uninstall it.
      Reboot*
      Go back to the Music app and everything should be back the way you like it.

      *Some people seem to not need to reboot.

      This does NOT restore the other functions like being able to update them on your device.

    3. Re:Like the podcast app? by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      I can't get my podcasts to update on my device anyways.

    4. Re:Like the podcast app? by firex726 · · Score: 1

      Yea, iTunes seems to be the only real way now.
      Apple really dropped the ball on this one.

    5. Re:Like the podcast app? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought I might be the only one, I was almost excited about the podcast app til, I realized that it was once a half assed apple software project.

    6. Re:Like the podcast app? by firex726 · · Score: 1

      I find it weird how they would make something like that App required when it got some pretty horrible reviews and everyone disliked it.

      It was like the ONLY 1st party Apple app that had a consistent 1 star review; and the issues people have with it, already existed at launch, they never bothered updating it just went from Painful and Optional to Unusable and Mandatory.

    7. Re:Like the podcast app? by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      As a sound engineer for The Arthur Askey Show, I found the reel to reel tape interface to be both intuitive and familiar. Shame running it on a 3GS is like running WoW (with mid to high level video settings) on the minimum hardware spec.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
  3. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Music....yes. Movies/TV shows.....no.

  4. Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As much as I dislike Apple, kudos to them for admitting the new iTunes isn't ready and postponing the release rather than pushing out potentially buggy and incomplete software. Too many software companies will just shove whatever they have finished out the door, whether it works or not.

    (Although it is possible to err on the opposite side. See Duke Nukem Forever)

    1. Re:Good for them by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They could have admitted this before they started bolting on stuff. It's needed a complete overhaul for a very long time. If people weren't forced to use it, most probably wouldn't.

    2. Re:Good for them by Tx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "As much as I dislike Apple, kudos to them for admitting the new iTunes isn't ready and postponing the release rather than pushing out potentially buggy and incomplete software. Too many software companies will just shove whatever they have finished out the door, whether it works or not."

      Like that company that pushed out iOS 6 with the Maps application that everyone was so impressed by? What were they called again?

      --
      Oh no... it's the future.
    3. Re:Good for them by war4peace · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree to this. Furthermore, some personal background for anyone who cares.
      The main reason which has stopped me from buying an iPod (though I like them a lot) was iTunes. I am a man with very simple needs. I need my MP3 player to connect through USB and be recognized as a drive, so that I can copy over whatever I want without the need of additional software. Sure, I can accept some tiny, fast software that acts as a middle-tier between my player and my PC, but iTunes was everything BUT that. Then again, were it an opt-in software, I would have used a workaround, but so far it was required, so no thanks.
      Make iTunes faster, smaller, simpler and I'll buy your nice iPods, because I like them, but right now, it's like buying a nice Ferrari with manure-filled seats.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    4. Re:Good for them by SomePgmr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Like that company that pushed out iOS 6 with the Maps application that everyone was so impressed by?

      Like that company that recently shoved the VP's in charge of those bungled releases out the door.

    5. Re:Good for them by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      You dont understand, the lack of bugs is the problem. Theyre working hard to make sure it upholds the iTunes legacy in full. What would iTunes on Windows be without bugs?

    6. Re:Good for them by agentgonzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So some guy that I've never heard of got fired for the maps mess. It still hasn't made my maps app any better.

    7. Re:Good for them by SomePgmr · · Score: 1

      Ok? Next time don't buy an iphone?

      Point was nobody should be surprised they're trying to be a little more careful about software releases.

    8. Re:Good for them by jitterman · · Score: 1

      I agree that it needs an overhaul, but I'm certainly not forced to use it. Yamipod will still put things on my old 160gb classic, and CopyTrans Suite puts music on my phone just fine.

      --
      For conscience is the wound, and there's naught to staunch it
    9. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody is forced to use it, and it works just fine for a lot of people.

      This mentality of iTunes being garbage seems to mostly exist amongst more technical users. The problem seems to stem from them trying to force iTunes to work the way they want it to, rather than using it as it was designed.

    10. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what are you buying instead of iPods? As far as I can tell, iPod touch's are unmatched for all they offer.

    11. Re:Good for them by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3

      As much as I dislike Apple, kudos to them for admitting the new iTunes isn't ready and postponing the release rather than pushing out potentially buggy and incomplete software. Too many software companies will just shove whatever they have finished out the door, whether it works or not.

      (Although it is possible to err on the opposite side. See Duke Nukem Forever)

      Seconded.

      Of all things Apple that are worthy of bitching about, this ain't one of them.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    12. Re:Good for them by Hognoxious · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If it doesn't work the way tech-savvy people - you know, ones who actually know about stuff - want it to work then doesn't that imply that the design is a bag of old cunt?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    13. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using that argument, GIMP should be the most popular and powerful image manipulation program out there, right?

      Oh, it's not? Huh. Well then.

    14. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, but they had to remove some people at the top before that could be admitted.

      The new management has different powerful people behind different ideas. Whoever pushed through the 'old' version of iTunes is not in power now.

      And there's the circling sharks. Apple blew it very publicly with Maps. The media, well held in line by you're-holding-it-wrong Steve, has criticized Apple and got away with it. iTunes is about to be released into a very different environment than any iTunes before. The new folks need it to be a version they believe will review well in a media that has tasted blood.

    15. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GIMP Is the most popular and most powerful image manipulation program... under $400.

    16. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When Microsoft or RIM says this, the public takes that to mean 'it's not finished yet because our developers have missed the mark'. Why does Apple get a pass?

    17. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't like people complaining ? Next time don't post on slashdot.

    18. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS Paint, Paintshop Pro, and various other inexpensive or free programs are all by far used more more than GIMP.

      I'm not saying GIMP is a bad product, but it does have severe inaccessibility issues stemming from poor design by incredibly smart and technical people who refuse to listen to their "idiot" user base. Saying iTunes is designed poorly because technically inclined users don't like how it works is spurious.

    19. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might not have heard of him, but he was the one responsible for Maps launching prematurely and was also the one who went on stage and introduced it. The head of iOS reports directly to Tim Cook, so it's not like they picked some underling.

    20. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So some guy that I've never heard of got fired for the maps mess. It still hasn't made my maps app any better.

      Well, geez, they only fired the guy a few days ago.
      I realize it's popular to hate on Apple around here, but you've got to give them a few days to, you know, write code and stuff.

    21. Re:Good for them by Mex · · Score: 2

      Just because you haven't heard of the guy who designed both the Maps app and Siri doesn't mean it wasn't a very significant move for them to sack him. I don't know the names or importance of any Obama cabinet members in the US but I bet they're kind of significant.

      Presumably it will make things better in the future, but a public apology and important heads rolling is at least an acknowledgement that they want to do things better.

    22. Re:Good for them by war4peace · · Score: 1

      I currently have a Cowon D2+ which I like. It's not perfect, but works well and the battery holds forever, I once forgot radio turned on on a Friday evening and on Monday morning it was still working with enough juice to last until I reached workplace, where I recharged it.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    23. Re:Good for them by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      See Podcast App. See IOS Maps. See Ping. Apple keeps fucking up and I'm sure if given a year more to fix iTunes, they'll still suck it up, because that's what they do. Ever try to manage a 350gb+ music library with iTunes? It's the worst software I have to deal with at home. As a musician and ex-DJ, I have a huge music collection. iTunes starts to suck once you hit over 20gb. And their iCloud / iTunes integration will never work for me, because it would cost hundreds of dollars a year, and not have as wide a selection as I have at home.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    24. Re:Good for them by wirelessduck · · Score: 1

      You can sync an iPod with third-party media players like Winamp, etc.

      --
      "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." - Bernard Baruch
    25. Re:Good for them by shmlco · · Score: 1

      "As much as I dislike Apple..."

      Is this de rigueur now? Must every cool kid start by distancing themselves from the company that makes some of the most popular devices on the planet?

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    26. Re:Good for them by tsa · · Score: 1

      You're definitely not the target audience for iTunes. You need a professional program to manage your music, not a simple customer program that is designed to handle a few thousand files.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    27. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it implies that tech-savvy people have stronger opinions about how they want things to work. Those opinions aren't necessarily even consistent. Nobody has said (or even implied) that all tech-savvy people don't like the way it works.

    28. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the reason for this is that iTunes wasn't created for the iPod (not even first generation). It already existed, and before being called iTunes it was SoundJam MP; which Apple purchased. It existed in MacOS 9, that's how old this thing is.

      When the iPod came out, instead of creating a specific "light" software just for it, some code and functionality was added to iTunes to have it be the software for the iPod. I won't argue the merits of this decision, it is what it is.

      Fast-forward some 12 years later, so much functionality has been added that the older stuff is beyond obsolete, and some of the more recent stuff is not used by few/some/most/all users. So it's good that they're cleaning house.

      I have a ~7-year-old iPod myself (the first one with a color screen that wasn't called iPod Photo anymore), with a 20 GB hard drive that I've never filled. I used it as a backup disk once, but the iPod software itself doesn't recognize it as content, even if there are some MP3 files in there....which, I agree, there's little to no reason why it doesn't

    29. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So some guy that I've never heard of got fired for the maps mess. It still hasn't made my maps app any better.

      How the hell did an asinine comment like that get considered 'insightful'?

  5. They've never gotten it right by Not-a-Neg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even when I had a Mac Mini and a MacBook, every upgrade to iTunes would have video playback issues until the library was deleted and re-created (backing up all your content before-hand of course). The same thing happened with the last 2 updates that were released 10.6.x and 10.7. The last 10.6.x update caused a slight drop in framerate and 10.7 caused a massive drop in frame rate on high end systems and crashed iTunes on low-end systems. It took a deleteion of the library file to get it working again. Given they're past failure to fix this issue over the last 6 years, I have no hopes of them fixing it with 11.

    --
    -==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
    1. Re:They've never gotten it right by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Given they're past failure to fix this issue over the last 6 years, I have no hopes of them fixing it with 11.

      Well, if they are past failure over the last six years, why do you think they won't be past failure this time?

  6. No more bloatware? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Let's hope it's not just the interface that is more simplified. Let's hope the whole application is much less bloated and resource hungry!

    1. Re:No more bloatware? by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Agreed, I feel bad anytime I have to install itunes on my gaming machine, it hits it like installing another AV almost, much more when it's actually running. VLC ftw.

    2. Re:No more bloatware? by mcmonkey · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm hoping "simpler and cleaner" mean "less arrogant."

      I have a couple podcasts I save up for when I travel. I was updating my iPod before a recent trip and noticed those podcasts weren't getting any recent episodes. Turns out iTunes stopped downloading those podcasts because I hadn't listened to them recently.

      There's also the recurring issue of iTunes storing audio files where the Apple Devs want files to be stored, not where I configure iTunes to store files.

      So how about a version of iTunes that will download what I decide to download, store files where I decide to store files, copy those files to my iPod, and nothing else?

      I don't need some developer somewhere deciding what I should or shouldn't download or where files should be stored on my machine.

  7. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They do. And it did.

  8. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    and it has been for like what, 6 years now? sheesh.

  9. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by dyingtolive · · Score: 5, Funny

    He very clearly wants to purchase DRM from the Apple store with no monetary cost. How it boosts sales is anyone's guess.

    --
    Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
  10. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is up to Hollywood, not Cupertino.

    And music has already been DRM-free for many years now.

  11. Interface? Give me cleaner code by sandytaru · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My issue with iTunes was never the interface. It was usually pretty intuitive. My problem was the lag - the program was always clunky and slow to respond, and on my laptop would sometimes lock up completely. The stability issues didn't seem to affect my workstation, but it was still rather laggy. I don't ask for much out of my software, but a quick response from the program interface is one thing. That's why I've stuck with Winamp over the years and just manually managed my music collection.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    1. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by SirAstral · · Score: 2

      I agree. Every song I play in iTunes on a PC has at least 1 random 0.1 seconds to sometimes a whole second somewhere in the track where there is a slight stutter, pause, blip, distortion, or something. I can play music on Media Player, KMPlayer, or WinAmp using the same file and this not happening. It is small and it is subtle but it still happens.

    2. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by war4peace · · Score: 1

      That Winamp which has become increasingly bloated and laggy as well? Go AIMP2 and never look back ;)

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    3. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For windows i agree with you, but on OS X it runs great and it's nicely integrated.

    4. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by milbournosphere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even on OS X, iTunes was pretty laggy. Apple made major strides in usability when they gave iTunes the 64-bit treatment for the release of OS X 10.7. I'm looking forward to seeing if iTunes 11 improves on this. Metadata changes on even one album's worth of songs are still quite laggy; if they fix the performance lag regarding operations that involve altering metadata, I'll be quite happy.

    5. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "clean" I don't think it means what you think it means.

      A bubble sort can be "clean" but is a horrible method for sorting large sets. "Clean" has nothing to do what you describe. What you want is efficiency.

    6. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      That Winamp which has become increasingly bloated and laggy as well? Go AIMP2 and never look back ;)

      Fortunately WinAmp 2.91 still runs just fine.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    7. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iTunes has far more issues than speed.
      Let's see
      - sometimes when you copy songs, they corrupt because you can't transfer them directly (note: Fanboys - do a search, it's all over Google and has been for years)
      - When you sync, you can't choose what you want to sync, so your phone goes through a complete cycle (which for me takes about 10 minutes to just "backup" a few kb of files)
      - If you made changes to your device and to iTunes, you can't choose which one is default. iTunes automatically assumes that anything deleted was a mistake, and puts it back again.
      - There is no auto-grouping capability. For example, you can't tell iTunes to group games/business/travel/etc - noting that when you combine them, IOS knows which items are of a similar type already.
      - Removing many items at a time is a nightmare - there's no easy way to traverse the list
      - Managing large lists of items is near impossible. I usually modify them via IOS, then update to iTunes because iTunes is just so unusable

      I could go on. This UI goes down in history as the second worst UI i've had to use extensively. The worst is a "similar" app by Microsoft that starts with "O" that fails to manage emails well. And yes, I do prefer VI to these two pieces of junk.

      Oh yeah, i'm old school - so get off my lawn.

    8. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by Teckla · · Score: 1

      My issue with iTunes was never the interface. It was usually pretty intuitive.

      I wish it was intuitive to me. :-( I purchase, download, and install an app from the app store to my iPad, then start iTunes to sync the iPad, and before I get a chance to start the sync, iTunes downloads the app again, but this time, just to the Mac. Err, or something like that. Why? Why does it do that?!

      Or, I delete a program from my iPad, go into iTunes sometime later to sync, and even then, it downloads the app that I just deleted and never, ever want to see again. I hated that app and deleted it for a reason! Why are you downloading it, iTunes?!

      I find the whole thing !@#$ing confusing.

    9. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      Why update winamp when could use version 2.666 with the MAD 24bit decoder plugin and be ready to rock in less than a millisecond!!! ?

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    10. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? The interface is confusing as hell. Try having your mom use it.

      Syncing overall is a huge nightmare, and even as a director of a mobile division, I'm still not confident that I'm not going to wipe out my entire contact list or backups in several situations.

      Multiple phones + multiple desktops = library management nightmare.

      I'd seriously love to just have the ability to drag files directly to the phone and back them up manually.

    11. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by thereitis · · Score: 1
      I've probably gotten used to iTunes' slowness but I have noticed that the current version is a lot faster than the version of years ago.

      I hope they don't dumb down the smart playlists feature. That's the only real reason (aside from its support for iPod) that I use iTunes.

    12. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Super slow and sluggish to respond. iTunes search, especially in the store, has always been surprisingly bad too. I also hate that you can't completely remove TV Shows or Movies or whatever from the Store. The make the interfact way clunkier then it needs to be (if you only ever buy music, for example)

    13. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 1

      if they fix the performance lag regarding operations that involve altering metadata, I'll be quite happy.

      Just curious, do you know that modifying song metadata - which is written to the front of your .mp3 file - requires re-writing the entire file to disk?

      The delay drives me nuts, but it is understandable given the fact that metadata sits at the front of the file. Interesting fact: Shortening the content in your metadata takes far less time than adding to it. I guess they write null bytes (or similar) in the ID3 tags when you go shorter... but adding to it requires re-writing the whole file.

      --
      I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
    14. Re:Interface? Give me cleaner code by milbournosphere · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm aware that the metadata sometimes requires a re-write. However, I've never had such long delays when using other tagging software (I experimented with some Share/Payware about a year ago, in my Great Music Organization project; I properly organized and tagged about 120GB worth of music using a few different applications). I know that some time is needed to write to file, and that's a fact of life, but I've seen programs do similar write-outs much faster than in iTunes. It's not a huge issue, as I tend to only have to work with the metadata from the odd song or album these days.

  12. Fixed that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is said to be the most significant upgrade to iTunes in the 11-year life of the program, which has grown from a simple music player to the most unnecessary bloated piece of sh!t in history.

  13. Not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You should be lucky to get itunes11 in November, it takes Apple 2 weeks to update one webpage.

    1. Re:Not surprised by TomorrowPlusX · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]

      --

      lorem ipsum, dolor sit amet
    2. Re:Not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here 4th paragraph.

    3. Re:Not surprised by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2226214/Apple-reprimanded-Samsung-apology--claims-WEEKS-replacement-web-site.html:

      A lawyer representing Apple said the firm could take a notice off its website in 24 hours but asked judges for 14 days to post a replacement.

    4. Re:Not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here you go.

      From the article:

      At a hearing in the court in London on Thursday morning, the judge told Apple that it had to change the wording of the statement within 48 hours, carry it on its home page, and use at least 11-point font.

      Apple tried to argue that it would take at least 14 days to put a corrective statement on the site – a claim that one judge said he "cannot believe".

    5. Re:Not surprised by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      The "two weeks" comment was a riff on Apple's request for a two week delay on updating the copy on their court-mandated "UK courts said that Samsung didn't copy" announcement.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    6. Re:Not surprised by Scowler · · Score: 1

      It takes lawyers 2 weeks to BS their way out of a judgement they don't like. It takes Apple 15 minutes to update one webpage. But hey, don't let facts confuse your trolling.

  14. Sign of the times by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    why is iTunes relevant anymore, as a music player it is awful, even as a three pane music browser its awful, as a way of interacting with Apple lecacy devices its awful. I must have used 10 different music players on the desktop [I'm using clementine] all better than itunes, and will work on linux[It didn't just work].

    It should never have crossed the line into movies and apps. Googles cloud based stores do not require such arcane methods of controlling your Android devices. connecting as a Mass Storage Device.

    I've been too kind itunes needs to be killed with fire. It neither works as a music player, or device management...it never did.

    1. Re:Sign of the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      And yet millions of average people use it just fine. Maybe your issues are PEBKAC related?

    2. Re:Sign of the times by geek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It neither works as a music player, or device management...it never did.

      Strange, I work with dozens of people that use it for those purposes every day. Melodramatic much?

      iTunes does just fine, sorry your hardware and OS are old and outdated and things lag but on my Macbook Air iTunes runs just as fast as any other app on my machine. Granted, Ping was stupid but its gone now. As to the rest of your rant, whatever. Millions of people use it successfully every single day, purchasing billions of songs and movies every year. The evidence is very much against you.

    3. Re:Sign of the times by tuppe666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And yet millions of average people use it just fine. Maybe your issues are PEBKAC related?

      Apple is a niche market, dropping from 23% to 15%. You can blame me if it make you personally feel better. itunes was part of Apple lock-in, and nothing more. Given a more open; cheaper alternative; average people[sic] have chosen to use the devices that aren't locked into itunes. It was an advantage [to apple] in the old days when the iPod was king, with a monopoly [both content and device], but now users are looking closer at Apple devices, and asking why they are paying more...for less, and itunes is part of the problem.

    4. Re:Sign of the times by tuppe666 · · Score: 0

      It neither works as a music player, or device management...it never did.

      Strange, I work with dozens of people that use it for those purposes every day. Melodramatic much?

      iTunes does just fine, sorry your hardware and OS are old and outdated and things lag but on my Macbook Air iTunes runs just as fast as any other app on my machine. Granted, Ping was stupid but its gone now. As to the rest of your rant, whatever. Millions of people use it successfully every single day, purchasing billions of songs and movies every year. The evidence is very much against you.

      No my OS is days old :) I use Linux. I'm sorry you spent do much on you hardware. As for evidence...I'm glad you mention that. Did you notice that Android hit 25 Billion Apps downloads before Apple. Did you notice Apple crying then they got caught pants down for forming a illegal cartel, because Amazon are better at selling books. Apple has there day, but Amazon/Google have stores now. Apples market share dropped from 23% to 15%. ...but ignoring your love for Apple...there are simply better music players out there.

    5. Re:Sign of the times by Desler · · Score: 1

      but now users are looking closer at Apple devices, and asking why they are paying more...for less, and itunes is part of the problem.

      So that's why Apple sold more iPhone 5s in the first weekend, 5 million, than almost any single Android phone model does over the entire life of being sold? Yeah, Apple is clearly doomed. Keep telling yourself that.

    6. Re:Sign of the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The masses don't know any better. I regularly find these "average people" with literally half their browser (IE, of course) real estate taken up by toolbars. They don't really know how the toolbars got there or what they're for, and aren't really aware that they can get rid of them, much less how to do it. If they can put up with that, they can put up with iTunes, it doesn't mean it's not a steaming turdball.

    7. Re:Sign of the times by war4peace · · Score: 0

      Millions of people wash once every two weeks or less.
      Millions of people inject high-risk drugs in their veins.
      Millions of people beat their wives or girlfriends on a daily basis.
      Millions of people starve every day.

      If you don't do as they do, you're a freak.

      TL;DR: if millions of people do a thing, it doesn't mean it's the good thing to do.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    8. Re:Sign of the times by Desler · · Score: 1

      What do Android app downloads or the issues over e-book pricing have to do with iTunes music sales? Non-sequitur much?

    9. Re:Sign of the times by Desler · · Score: 2

      So average users are dumb yet can use iTunes better than the supposedly smart nerds who claim it's too hard to use? And that's an insult against the average user? LOL.

    10. Re:Sign of the times by Desler · · Score: 1

      But if they are able to use iTunes without problems yet the "smart" nerds can't that doesn't speak well for the supposed smarts of the berds.

    11. Re:Sign of the times by Crookdotter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree. Why does a simple ipod obfuscate all the files on it, rather than keep a simple folder/file structure that would be usable by any other mp3 player? Apple lock in. I've used itunes and it's not good. What about muti user management? Multi device management? It doesn't seem to do those very well. I see itunes as the unfortunate way of getting music onto my ipod, not the best way. MIllions of users use itunes because they have to. Blaming the end user for the failings of itunes strikes of fanboi.

    12. Re:Sign of the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who said they can use it better? The point is that they don't know any better, so they just accept it however bad it is, whereas the "smart nerd" knows a bad app when he sees one and therefore complains, just as he wouldn't just accept a browser crippled by useless toolbars. That's pretty clearly implied in my post, but perhaps English isn't your first language, so I won't criticize you for not getting it.

    13. Re:Sign of the times by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      What an irrelevant comeback. Millions of users use iTunes just fine to buy and play back their music and to manage their iDevices. That you fail to be able to do so points squarely to PEBKAC.

      I'm glad, you blame me a user, it shows Apple software "Doesn't Work". Here is the thing though right now Apple share are dropping for two main reasons "Poor iPhone launch" [leading to massive marketshare loss]and "Massive losses of iPod sales".

      ...and your defending itunes. I [and those dumping Apple shares] are seeing a poor future for Apple, and Tablet sales are not going to hold it up. [Windows 8 might]. There is a major problem if "Millions of Users"[sic] are shopping elsewhere. I personally believe that Apple need to modernise, and they need to dump all this lock-in crap because its becoming a liability not an advantage.

      Personally though I use a better Music Player.

    14. Re:Sign of the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Millions of people also have their browsers slowed by multiple toolbars, doesn't mean that's the way to do things.

    15. Re:Sign of the times by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      >

      Marketshare dropped 23 to 15%? You'll need to provide evidence to that instead of just running your mouth off like you have been.

      Using IDC data
      http://www.fonearena.com/blog/56749/idc-samsung-apple-top-smartphone-vendors-in-q3-2012-nokia-not-in-top-5.html

      1Q12 23.1%
      2Q12 16.7%
      3Q12 15%

      Burn

    16. Re:Sign of the times by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      We have two iPod touches, one iPod nano, 2 iPhones, and had 2 iPads. I've never had any trouble with multiple device management. Of course, I've never tried to plug 2 devices in at once. So this may be what you are talking about.

      (God I sound like a fucking Apple faggot, please forgive me. In my defense, I have XP in VirtualBox running on top of Ubuntu, and only use XP to keep Itunes around. Plus I have three daughters that are almost teenagers and a wife, which is the reason I have so many idevices. And I sold one iPad to get a Nexus 7.)

    17. Re:Sign of the times by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      Mom, is that you?

      If my friends jump off a bridge, why shouldn't I?

    18. Re:Sign of the times by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      So that's why Apple sold more iPhone 5s in the first weekend, 5 million, than almost any single Android phone model does over the entire life of being sold? Yeah, Apple is clearly doomed. Keep telling yourself that.

      No I'm not saying Apple is Doomed. I'm saying Apple needs to do more than just repeating "magical" on stage. Apple is falling behind. The fact that we are discussing a Desktop Application should give it away. 5 Million is not a big number over a weekend phone launch. Android activates! 1.3 Million daily.

      but to address your point there is nothing wrong [and get back on topic] with itunes because millions use it. Well I guess the counterargument is 5 times as many people are choosing Android over Apple. itunes is not the whole problem. It just shows that Apple is not evolving its devices, in a competitive manner. Its unnecessary and harmful lock-in.

    19. Re:Sign of the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      strikes of fanboi.

      Look out, here comes the throwdown! He used the f-bomb. Step back from this guy.

    20. Re:Sign of the times by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      You get one part of the picture, but you are missing a huge part. The "smartphone" market is changing. There have always been and there will always be people who buy cheap phones, and people who buy expensive phones. Useful numbers would be Apple's market share among all phones, and Apple's market share among expensive phones (since they only sell expensive phones). In the last years, a lot of people who bought a phone that is a bit better than the cheapest one have changed from non-smartphone to smartphone. That's why the smartphone market has been growing, and since all these people are not and never will be iPhone customers, Apple's share of the smartphone market has shrunk.

      However, Apple's unit sales have been growing, Apple's market share in the total phone market has been growing, and actually Apple's revenue share in the smartphone market has been growing.

    21. Re:Sign of the times by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      ..or, the "smart" nerds know that there are better alternatives.

      iTunes is "good enough" until something better is witnessed, then usually the opinion is that iTunes is "completely unacceptable" because thats how wide the gap is. I've got a nice system.. many real cores, over 3ghz, plenty of memory, and the iTunes on Windows 7 experience can be summed up as "holy fuck thats a lot of senseless interface latency.. this piece of shit makes RealPlayer look good"

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    22. Re:Sign of the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've programmed in various 4GLs, 3GLs, C***L, assembler and C. As in, well enough to get paid for it. I can install & administer Linux, install SAP on it & administer that too. I can automate shit with bash.

      I can't make head nor tails of Picasa.

    23. Re:Sign of the times by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      So average users are dumb yet can use iTunes better than the supposedly smart nerds who claim it's too hard to use? And that's an insult against the average user? LOL.

      Maybe we don't have enough Gamma waves? More neuroscience!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    24. Re:Sign of the times by narcc · · Score: 1

      Nonsense.

      I've never seen a non-technical user use iTunes without running in to problems -- even performing basic functions.

    25. Re:Sign of the times by narcc · · Score: 1

      That they're able to use iTunes does NOT mean that they're able to use iTunes without problems.

    26. Re:Sign of the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Put it this way: a person who was barely literate might find it easier to understand your post than I would. Why? Because he wouldn't know what a run on sentence is or wonder what the fuck a "berd" is.

      tl;dr: Where ignorance is bliss 'tis folly to be wise.

    27. Re:Sign of the times by nickscalise · · Score: 1

      Regular folks do not want to be bothered with manually copying files from where they can'f find them on their hard drive to where they can't find the proper directory on their iPod.

      Regular folks do not need to see where their files are at all times.

    28. Re:Sign of the times by jest3r · · Score: 1

      2001 to 2011 (Jobs era)

      - Apple products cost more but you always had bragging rights ...

      2012 (Cook era)

      - Apple products cost even more but you no longer have bragging rights ...
      - Mac line is pricing itself out of existence ... why can’t I get a 13” Mac laptop for under $1000 anymore?
      - iPad Mini no Retina? ... even iPod Touch has Retina?
      - iOS 6 underwhelming ... starting to feel dated ...
      - iPhone 5 why didn’t you make the larger screen proportionally larger?
      - OSX App Store and Software Update interface is awful ... Launchpad looks even worse ...

    29. Re:Sign of the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. Why does a simple ipod obfuscate all the files on it, rather than keep a simple folder/file structure that would be usable by any other mp3 player? Apple lock in. I've used itunes and it's not good. What about muti user management? Multi device management? It doesn't seem to do those very well. I see itunes as the unfortunate way of getting music onto my ipod, not the best way. MIllions of users use itunes because they have to. Blaming the end user for the failings of itunes strikes of fanboi.

      Actually, if you took the time to check the iTunes Library folder, you'd find a very simple hierarchical structure of folders, organising the raw song files by artist and album. There's nothing complex about the way iTunes manages files on disk. I hear this same complaint time and time again by people against iTunes who seem to have apparently never looked.

    30. Re:Sign of the times by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      What do Android app downloads or the issues over e-book pricing have to do with iTunes music sales? Non-sequitur much?

      Because there is no such thing as "music" sales. Its one of the reasons that itunes has outgrown its usefulness....because itunes ties to do those things too, and fails .Its Apps; Music; Books; Magazines!? and Movies...Google have added the Nexus line to their shop, and I'm sure Amazon will add EVERYTHING. Content is king, and Apple had an advantage when it was just Music from the ipod days. It has all but squandered that advantage everyone does music today even Microsoft.

    31. Re:Sign of the times by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      You get one part of the picture, but you are missing a huge part

      No I didn't Apple do not do a feature(dumb)phone, They do not do a good value smartphone. There is "special olympic" categories specially for the iphone. Apples marketshare has dropped from 23.1% to 15% in a couple of quarters thats a fact and it does not bode well.

      Apples revenue share in the smartphone market has not been growing its been shrinking. Its sales have been shrinking and in a launch quarter were static [in a growing market], while Android grew massively again!

      You say "these people are not and never will be iPhone customers" then your really saying Apples premium is simply not worth it., and I have to strongly agree.

    32. Re:Sign of the times by MrEdofCourse · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'll try not to sound like a fanboi here...

      I was reviewing products for CNET back when MP3 players and software was starting to take off...before Apple had anything and SoundJam was its own thing.

      I remember back then it seemed like everyone had a player before the iPod. Every consumer electronic company had one, as did Intel, Virgin, Coke, Nike, etc...

      The one thing most of these had in common, along with many digital cameras, was that they didn't desktop mount, but required platform specific software. In fairness, this was in part an issue with how USB was implemented on PCs prior to Windows XP, but many vendors even after XP were thinking they were doing the consumer a favor by requiring the use of software that "facilitated the use" of their products.

      I was dual Mac/PC platform at the time (now I use mostly Macs except to develop/test for PC). It was very frustrating that devices couldn't just mount on the Mac, although some devices that required software on the PC did just mount on the Mac.

      So when Apple came out with iTunes and the iPod, at first, it seemed pretty screwed that they themselves went with a software required syncing system.

      However, things have changed radically since then.

      My *main* iTunes library is almost 1TB. I have other iTunes libraries on several volumes that I use for work, production, a media server and other uses. On my main library, I have, I don't know, a bazillion playlists? I have multiple iPads, iPods, and iPhones. I also sync iTunes with a media server, Sonos system, as well as flash cards in my car and other devices. It's not uncommon for me to sync multiple devices at the same time, some wirelessly and some plugged in via USB.

      For the life of me, I have no idea how I could even begin to manage all of this on a system level without software. Likewise, without playlists, the idea of duplicating folders would be a nightmare, since many of the playlists have the same songs in them.

      For a casual user, I can understand the "why can't I just drag and drop from the system", but for me, the filesystem is actually a generic purpose filesystem app, be it The Finder on the Mac, or Explorer on Windows that absolutely sucks for specific file purposes such as music or photos. And iTunes/iPhoto/Aperture are file management apps only much better suited for these file types.

      I'll admit that iTunes is far better on the Mac than Windows, and of course there is no iPhoto/Aperture on Windows, but still it's far better than trying to manage everything yourself from the generic file system management app be it Finder or Explorer.

    33. Re:Sign of the times by quasipunk+guy · · Score: 1

      I can't speak to the obfuscation, but indexing the files provided a huge performance increase compared to other DAPs when the iPod was released. The responsive, intuitive click-wheel interface is definitely the key to the iPod's success and it wouldn't have been possible using a traditional FS based system.

    34. Re:Sign of the times by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      You do realize that Apple is still the leading music retailer in the world, don't you?

    35. Re:Sign of the times by war4peace · · Score: 1

      In that case, you should really follow their lead, son. It would help BOTH of us, a LOT.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    36. Re:Sign of the times by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Smart nerds, CAN use iTunes, but they know there's something better right around the corner.
      Joe Sixpack usually doesn't care about seeking alternatives, Joe Sixpack thinks that laggy, bloated iTunes is normality, right next to fuel-guzzling SUVs and a carbon footprint the size of California.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    37. Re:Sign of the times by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 1

      why is iTunes relevant anymore, as a music player it is awful, even as a three pane music browser its awful, as a way of interacting with Apple lecacy devices its awful.

      Because it's the only way to access modern iDevices? I'm no iTunes fan, but I do like the iPod. I like the iPod so much more than any other MP3 player that dealing with iTunes is an OK proposition to me. So the lock-in works.

      --
      I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
    38. Re:Sign of the times by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Joe Sixpack just learns to do things monkey fashion. It doesn't annoy him that it (xnview, I'm looking at you) forgets the target directory so you have to set it each time because he doesn't know that it could remember it. A developer would go "Shit, why didn't the idiot default it from the last time?" and tear his hair out.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    39. Re:Sign of the times by hvdh · · Score: 1

      Other vendors can do better.

      Apple iPod: Just copying audio files to the device doesn't work, special software has to be used, which also updates the index. File and directory names are lost, replaced by has values.

      Philips GoGear: You can copy audio files on/off it with any file manager. Directory and file names are preserved. When file system content has been changed, on detach, the device updates the index itself. So you can add/remove tracks with any file manager and the device still can use an index database.

    40. Re:Sign of the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - Apple products cost even more but you no longer have bragging rights ...

      Cost the same - rights unchanged

      - Mac line is pricing itself out of existence ... why can’t I get a 13” Mac laptop for under $1000 anymore?

      Retina is more expensive to produce. Buy an 11" air or buy used/refurb non retina

      - iPad Mini no Retina? ... even iPod Touch has Retina?

      ipads need to be less expensive. retina is more expensive to produce.
      - iOS 6 underwhelming ... starting to feel dated ...

      opinion, disagree

      - iPhone 5 why didn’t you make the larger screen proportionally larger?

      So it still fits in your hand and is operable with one hand. (duh)

      - OSX App Store and Software Update interface is awful ... Launchpad looks even worse ...

      Disagree with 1st. I don't liek launchpad, but one does not need to use it at all. if you don't hit the hit key you'd never even see it. an extra hidden away for pros, available for novices used to iOS

    41. Re:Sign of the times by aztec+rain+god · · Score: 1

      Replying because I hit the wrong mod button

      --
      Sig cannot be found.
    42. Re:Sign of the times by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The proper way of handling this is to 1) expose the filesystem directly, and 2) provide software that does music management on top of that filesystem. That way you get the ability to just copy files when you want it or need it (e.g. when you're connecting your player to something that doesn't have management software installed). It also allows different competing management software to be written, using different UI design, management approaches etc, so that you as a user can pick the one that suits you best.

  15. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by whisper_jeff · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Give us the option to buy DRM free.

    Do you live in a cave? And been in that cave since the beginning of 2009?

  16. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by krray · · Score: 4, Informative

    AC is correct -- music from iTunes has been DRM free for years [again]. Originally it was all MP3's -- then yes, it was DRM'd AAC files.

    Today it's DRM free AAC files -- that yes, have your Apple ID embedded. So what?

    Even when it was encrypted it was trivial (for a geek :) to convert them to MP3's. Originally you could use your Firewire iPod connected to decrypt the files on the fly -- then Apple blocked that. Always has been possible to use something like Audio HiJack to re-record to MP3's.

    Today -- just convert to MP3 in iTunes. No issue. And I keep going back to MP3 because of legacy devices connected to stereo's that only understand MP3's [original SliMP3's :-].

    What the issue? Sales are up (and my stock :)

  17. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Desler · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Because Google Play allows me to buy DRM-free movies and shows?

  18. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by interkin3tic · · Score: 2

    Music you purchased that was DRMed before, the DRM was never removed. Movies and TV shows I think are still DRMed, and apps on the iDevices, I think of that as very intrusive DRM.

    I have little doubt that the lingering DRM on music and movies and TV shows are apple's fault though. If I remember hearing correctly, apple in fact should be commended for forcing an end to DRM on music in the first place. I think on this issue, apple is more closely aligned with consumer interests than content's interests (and I've become pretty anti-apple). And I don't see the app store or old DRM DECREASING sales. But DRM in itunes is still an issue.

  19. Final Cut Pro X by slacka · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Apple's dug themselves into a hole in this one. They have an app that suffers from feature creep and is a resource hog. The only way to fix both issues is a complete code rewrite and interface redesign. Best case they will successful in both areas, but people will still complain that they don't like the new UI. Worse case, they just pull a "Final Cut Pro X" and still have a memory/CPU hog that does less than before. Hopefully they chose the former, and are just taking their time to polish it up.

  20. Getting it "right" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They're having trouble adapting the Apple iTunes skin on VLC. :)

  21. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    Er, I meant that to read "I doubt that lingering DRM... is apple's fault." Switching from a double negative statement to a positive statement, I did it halfway.

  22. get it right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple,

    I don't have and don't want an iPod, so don't make me install an iPod service.
    And get rid of whatever the hell Bonjour is. I don't use it, and I don't care what it is, but iTunes goes ape shit if it's gone.
    And get rid of the updater service. I don't trust you to ship an update that doesn't bork my music collection. I've been burned by you guys on that too many times.

    In short, get rid of anything that runs in the background. The only Apple binary I ever want to see in ProcessExplorer is iTunes.exe.

    -Anonymous Coward

    1. Re:get it right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Honestly, Bonjour is a great protocol idea. Avahi/Zeroconf provides this on Linux and it's an open protocol that saves the ordinary household user from worrying about things like the IP address of their printer. It's used for the iPod Touch and iPhone on iTunes, and I agree it shouldn't be forced to be installed. It's also used for sharing your music library to other computers on the network.

    2. Re:get it right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bonjour is great, but the crux of the criticism is still valid...when you quit iTunes.exe, everything else should stop too. I understand the motivation to pop up iTunes when you plug in an iP[od|ad|hone], but it's annoying and should be an optional part of the iTunes experience.

      Basically, when designing iTunes, try to remember that you're a music player/organizer and not an OS component.

    3. Re:get it right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, Bonjour is a great protocol idea. Avahi/Zeroconf provides this on Linux and it's an open protocol that saves the ordinary household user from worrying about things like the IP address of their printer. It's used for the iPod Touch and iPhone on iTunes, and I agree it shouldn't be forced to be installed. It's also used for sharing your music library to other computers on the network.

      Have you seen just how much traffic Bonjour is exchanging all the time? I don't want shit to autoconfigure, I'm perfectly capable of setting up a DNS server.

    4. Re:get it right by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      I'll second that - the easiest way to add a workgroup printer to a Windows machine is to install Bonjour print services for Windows. Discover the printer, hit done and it's all set up for you. Even if the printer is on a dynamic IP (as most are from the factory) it doesn't matter if it's IP changes as Zeroconf/Bonjour will find it with no worries.
      It's also good for auto-discovery of network services. Servers can advertise themselves over Bonjour, Safari can even display a Bonjour bookmark that shows printers and other web pages that are advertising themselves on the network. It really does make life easier...

    5. Re:get it right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh really, you don't use mDNS? You don't care what it is?

      GTFO my Slashdot.

  23. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by wed128 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They should.

    Also, just because google doesn't do something, doesn't mean nobody should.

  24. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

    No. He's just moved on from the 2001 notion of multimedia that you seem to be clinging to.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  25. The real reason by sootman · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now that Forstall is gone, they're going to take a couple days to remove the stitched-leather look.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  26. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Thanks for proving my belief that the most anti-Apple people are also the most ignorant of Apple products.

  27. FLAC by gooner666 · · Score: 1

    Any hopes that they will include the obscure format that is FLAC???

    --
    Lets get this over with... Fuck Off
    1. Re:FLAC by Malc · · Score: 1

      Why would they do that when they already have their own lossless codec?

    2. Re:FLAC by SteffenM · · Score: 0

      The fact that the FLAC conversion software is released under the GPL tells me that won't happen, ever.

    3. Re:FLAC by Rougement · · Score: 1

      Flac can easily be converted into apple lossless in apps like SoundConverter. It's an extra step but it's not too much of a PITA.

    4. Re:FLAC by gooner666 · · Score: 1

      Then explain why they support MP3's.

      --
      Lets get this over with... Fuck Off
  28. The App Store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The App Store is a seperate function on Mountain Lion.

    1. Re:The App Store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They should redo the app store too. Tired of searching over the internet which random plist I need to delete so the app store doesn't freeze at startupt.

  29. winamp ftw by Nyder · · Score: 1

    I like winamp. But then i've been using it for 10+ years. don't care for it playing video files, but whatever.

    Of course, I do NOT buy music online. I am not giving my money to any of the media corporations. Nor would I ever buy new music from anywhere except from an artist that is selling directly. I'd rather pirate the music and donate money to the band without dealing with the corporate arm that takes most of the money.

    --
    Be seeing you...
    1. Re:winamp ftw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But DO you "donate money to the band", or do you self righteously download music for free because TEH C0RP0RATIONS STEAL TOO!!!111 ?

      Also, I agree with you regarding Winamp.

  30. Translation: 100% rewrite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Has *anyone* at Apple ever used iTunes on Windows? What do they do, punish poor coders by forcing them to work on the Windows code?

    1. Re:Translation: 100% rewrite by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 2

      Has *anyone* at Apple ever used iTunes on Windows? What do they do, punish poor coders by forcing them to work on the Windows code?

      It's all part of the Apple experience. When it breaks, they blame microsoft.

  31. Better late than crap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I still use iTunes. It's my favorite way to buy music. If i can't find an album there, it's probably not available for digital distribution at all. (Once or twice amazon has had an album that iTunes has not)

    I don't even like to download torrents/rapidshares/whatever of albums unless they're lossless. I've downloaded too many albums with bad encodes that sound like garbage. I'll go to ebay/amazon and get a physical CD before I download some random mp3s

    It's not perfect, but I still like it. iTunes is one of the few programs Ive used that actually shave bloat with later iterations. Recently they shed the quicktime requirement (Even apple admits that quicktime is a niche product now) And now they're chucking ping and other unnecessary things.

    Since iOS5, apple has moved to make the iOS devices independent of PCs. You don't need a computer to use and iOS device now, and they're changing itunes to reflect that.

    1. Re:Better late than crap. by Freultwah · · Score: 1

      If i can't find an album there, it's probably not available for digital distribution at all.

      True, if you only look for recent American pop music. If your taste also includes, say, Estonian stoner metal, Hungarian fusion, Macedonian folk, Moldovan drone, Tatar punk or King Crimson, you're shit out of luck on iTunes, although you will find the music distributed in FLAC elsewhere, legally. Just bought a bunch.

  32. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

    Nobody can.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  33. Que the Church Lady by john.willis1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    .. Could it be Skeuomorphism.. Hmmmm?

  34. Hey aPple by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 1

    Can't get the 2nd FA to load, slashdotted and/or Sandy-related issues? Here's a dupe - I guess - Apple Delays iTunes Update | NBC Southern California

    Have been a Foobar2000 stalwart for years myself. Only use iTunes for managing iPods and only want one added feature - to be able to delete an item from a playlist and have that file deleted from the iPod too. You'd think that would be no big deal. CopyTransManager stands in for iTunes and has this feature but it's very sluggish.

  35. Couldn't get worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Maybe they should just release whatever they have now. It would be hard for iTunes to be any worse than it was before. Heck, iTunes could cause flame dog poop to be expelled from my computer speakers and it wouldn't be a huge step down from what they already had. I don't understand how people make themselves use such a slow, bloated, buggy mess.

  36. Will it remain bug ridden crapware -- just with ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How about they just make it work as advertised on Windows? For several years now (on several machines with several builds of iTunes) there has been show stopper bugs in basic functionality, like the inability to un-pause video and downloads being corrupted if you attempt to listen/view to files before they are completely downloaded.

  37. Well back Apple minus Steve Jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ahhh... Commercials that suck, products with marginal improvements, massively broken apps, product delays, and public apologies, seem to be the norm now. I wonder how long they can ride out on the success of iphone/ipod.

  38. not unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering it takes them 14 days to put a paragraph on a web page. Something major like this will be years in the making.
    ("sorry your honour, we -really- want to make sure the apology's perfect this time"?)

  39. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can remove it, but Apple wants to charge you another 50% of the original price.. which is a blatant money grab as prices before and after the DRM switch did not change by 50%.

  40. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by RMingin · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's only true in a small number of cases. The great majority of music can be redownloaded DRM-free via either individual track re-downloads via iTunes Plus, or by subscribing to iTunes Match for one year, and letting that match and upgrade all your tracks. I believe at this point you can simply delete and redownload your track for a DRM-free version.

    I hate DRM as much as anyone, but you're the dumbass for buying DRMed goods and then being pissy when only some and not all DRM was removed from them later. Apple is willing to work toward your goal, and you're pissed because they don't deliver 100%?

    For clarification, I've dropped Apple from my personal device lineup now that Google has tablets that match or beat iPad. I've been enjoying using iTunes Match to match and upgrade my old music, then uploading the up-rate media to Google Play.

    --
    The preceding comment is my own, and in no way construes an opinon of the Emperor of Mankind.
  41. did anyone else...? by HPHatecraft · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else read the headline as "Apple Delays Sniper"?

    For a moment, I was like "wow. That's just so inconsiderate. How would you like it if someone needlessly kept you waiting? The mission's a go. Tell him to take the shot and we can all go home".

  42. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by SteffenM · · Score: 1

    No. He's just moved on from the 2001 notion of multimedia that you seem to be clinging to.

    What are you referring to? Apple removed DRM from the music available on iTunes back in 2009.

    I seriously hope you're not implying that GP thought, and encouraged the idea, that Apple still sells iTunes music with DRM.

  43. Now with added features by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...Now with 8G RAM requirement and NOW even slower!

    (must start with OS)

  44. Apple's QC has slipped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've had iTunes / AppleTV as the center of a whole-house media distribution system since 2008 that includes purchased and ripped TV shows, movies, and music. For the most part, it's been fine, running with few glitches over several years.

    Until about a year ago.

    Suddenly, the Windows-based iTunes instance needed to be restarted, sometimes as frequently as several times a day, or the AppleTVs could not find the home sharing server. Online analysis pointed to iTunes leaking open sockets/file descriptors. Months later, Apple hasn't admitted to there being a problem, and certainly hasn't released a fix.

    So I attempted to export my library from Windows and import it into iTunes running on a Mac Mini. Not only was the import slow, it crashed several times, forcing me to divide the XML file into several smaller ones, importing them one at a time and ignoring the failed ones. That's right, iTunes couldn't read an XML file generated by the same version of iTunes when moving from PC->Mac. The Mac-based iTunes media server only needs to be restarted once a week now, which is a massive improvement.

    A recent upgrade to the 2nd and 3rd generation AppleTVs causes them to fail to play video files that were ripped (years ago) at a constant bit-rate. These same ATVs played these same files just fine weeks or months ago.

    I went with Apple because their stuff tended to "just work", and was especially wonderfully integrated. Their UI was so simple that my technophobe mother-in-law could watch her movies without assistance when she visited. I could watch movies on my TV, computer, iPod and iPhones. I could cause one device to use a remote display. I could start a movie in the next room for my kids with my phone. All wonderful.

    Except it barely works anymore.

    I don't have high hopes that Apple will "get iTunes right". In fact, I predict a disaster that will have me looking for another entertainment hub.

    1. Re:Apple's QC has slipped by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 1

      Except it barely works anymore.

      I don't have high hopes that Apple will "get iTunes right". In fact, I predict a disaster that will have me looking for another entertainment hub.

      iTunes has been the music player version of the large A/V companies. Mostly useless new features, and they can be summed up in the word "bloat". I stopped updating years ago, especially after a couple of spectacularly botched installation that fouled up the registry on a windows machine (had to go through and remove each and every reference to itunes, apple, and one of their protocols (can't recall the name ATM). The mac it occurred on required an OS re-install.

      I have an iPod touch, and that's the only reason I continue to use iTunes. It's slightly amusing when the music player of dubious choice can't really be considered "running in the background" simply because of the wealth of system resources it consumes.

    2. Re:Apple's QC has slipped by Voyager529 · · Score: 3, Informative

      In fact, I predict a disaster that will have me looking for another entertainment hub.

      ...And the entertainment hub that you're looking for is called Plex. Based on how you describe your usage of iTunes, Plex may fit the bill. However, its suitability for you depends on two major questions:
      1.) How willing you are to jailbreak your Apple TV - or replace it with one of these.
      2.) How much DRM'd video content you've got tying you to the Apple ecosystem.

      They've got iOS,Android, and desktop apps, and they work more beautifully than I can possibly describe.

  45. Re:Slashdot = Android idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just like party politics, it's not about being right, it's about making yourself feel good about the assumptions you have no matter how false they are.
     
    I don't really see this place ever coming back from being more than a chest beating competition between neckbeards. They all are experts on every subject but from the volumes of posts they all have, none of them could possibly have a real job. Oh well...

  46. Translation: by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 0

    'The new iTunes is taking longer than expected and we wanted to take a little extra time to get it right'

    Translation: "It's taking much longer then expected to fix our badly rushed maps debacle, and because our egos demanded the sacrifice of Forstall, our focus has been elsewhere. We need a little more time before we release the new itunes with it's new and unwanted maps feature!"

  47. Creating MP3-CD's from M4A's fixed? by dousette · · Score: 1

    I hope they fix the bug where creating an MP3-CD to listen to in the car from an album I bought in iTunes in M4A format is a two-step process... I filed a report a couple years ago on it. It is silly that I have to convert the M4A's to MP3's first, then add only the duplicated MP3's to a playlist, burn that playlist, then delete the playlist and only the MP3 versions of the songs from my library. I've had an instance where I accidentally deleted a purchased track thinking it was an MP3 that I was cleaning up.

    1. Re:Creating MP3-CD's from M4A's fixed? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      That's not a bug, that's a missing feature.

      There are other things to complain about. For example, when converting music, it doesn't use multiple threads. There are no single core Macs, and lots of quad core Macs. (And I checked, the OS has no problems converting multiple music files at the same time). Annoying if your iPod is set to automatically convert music to 128 kbit.

    2. Re:Creating MP3-CD's from M4A's fixed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. This substantially increases the time taken to sync music from lossless to AAC. It needs to be fixed in the next release.

  48. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just re-download it from the cloud: presto! Instant DRM Free copies of your old files...

  49. Tim Cook doesn't like to apologize by QuincyDurant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...but he's had to do so twice in the past six months: first, for ill-advised changes in Apple's retail stores, and second, for the premature release of Maps.

    Both executives whose decisions resulted in these apologies are gone.

    1. Re:Tim Cook doesn't like to apologize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well, Cook hired the retail executive nine months ago to the dismay of people familiar with his work at Dixon's... Maybe I have missed it, but I thought the press would have pointed out Cook's misstep here more prominently.

    2. Re:Tim Cook doesn't like to apologize by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 1

      What changes to the retail stores? I haven't been following the news, but I'm curious. They had a pretty successful strategy and I don't know why anyone would mess with that.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
  50. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, sucks you can't upload it to Piratebay without a little work, doesn't it.

    Personally, I'd rather the artists get a little money, rather than the fuck-all they get from torrenters.

    If you can't afford music, you got your priorities wrong.

  51. Play samples and browse at same time..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give me one feature: play sample songs and browse at the same time.

    For the love, when looking for new music, nothing is more annoying than sitting there twiddling your thumbs listening to a sample.

  52. Perhaps the number one reason by rhadamanthus · · Score: 1

    Itunes is possible the number one reason I switched back to a PC from my macbook. I simply can't stand it. It's bloated, laggy, and just a plain mess if you ever need to do anything complex to it's god-awful database. And if you wanted to offload your massive music collection to a netwroedk location....impossible. Back in the day I wanted to run itunes off a NAS drive - mother of god was that a mistake. I still am forced to use it to back up my iphone but that alone may be driving me to android - that my iphone freeking requires itunes is more aggravating than I can even explain.

    --
    Slashdot needs to interview Natalie Portman.
    1. Re:Perhaps the number one reason by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      I dislike the fact that flat out tells me that video files 'are too big to play on your PC' when I can right-click, 'show in windows explorer,' and play the file with, say, WMP, no problem.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    2. Re:Perhaps the number one reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, they're just fucking with you on that one. Probably think you're not very cute... Otherwise it really is shitty software.

  53. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

    If an artist wants money, he can live perform, everything else is advertising.

    --
    Good-bye
  54. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    apple in fact should be commended for forcing an end to DRM on music in the first place.

    Credit for that lies with the Amazon MP3 Store, launched in 2007: first mainstream service to offer non-DRM downloads.

    Apple had to adapt to match that.

  55. Divide it up by Tarlus · · Score: 1

    I've believed for a long time now that synchronization with devices should be separated from iTunes. It made sense back in the days when you needed it to sync your music with your iPod, but with the advent of iOS and the need to synchronize more content (apps, photos, config backups, OS upgrades, etc) iTunes has become a gigantic misguided clusterfuck.

    If iTunes could be reverted back to being strictly a multimedia player and store client, it would back on track. People who don't own iDevices but just want a multimedia player can be satisfied by this.

    For people who want to transfer content and back up their iDevices, this functionality could be delegated to a separate application. ("iSync?") Let that program install superfluous drivers and services as needed, and let it interface with iTunes as needed to synchronize music/movies/books/whatever. Also, let its updates be released independently, so that when iTunes has to be updated, it doesn't break my ability to sync my iPod touch and force me to re-flash my device (which has happened twice, and what a crock of BS that is).

    Just my $ 0.02.

    --
    /* No Comment */
    1. Re:Divide it up by BenJeremy · · Score: 1

      Yup, and the thing is, they have the "iCloud" app that does some syncing... just not everything. It handily zaps my photos taken to my PC - I like that, but why not my videos? Why can't I use it to consolidate my backups? Why does the iCloud client not do everything the iCloud web site does?

      I also want a file browser in that iCloud client to pull files off of my iPhone.

      Put all the sync activities in iTunes into the iCloud client, and I think everybody is happier. iTunes as the media player and store interface, and let it access the iCloud client to talk to your phone and perform any actions it needs to.

  56. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure there are a handful of indie movies out there that don't require DRM by their publisher. So technically you're wrong.

  57. long time by halfelven · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They've been delaying it for a decade now.

  58. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Apple was calling for the removal of DRM *long* before then. The labels used Amazon as leverage to get a better deal from Apple. They let Amazon sell DRM-free tracks when the Apple/iTunes license contract was coming up for renewal.

  59. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    Well, I'm certainly glad you've cleared things up. I'll just ask the NY Philharmonic to just trundle up here to Alaska for my personal enjoyment.

    What a wonderful world we could live in!

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  60. I don't need iTunes as any sort of player by BenJeremy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I just need to manage my iPhones. I need separate profiles (since I have multiple devices) so they don't try and sync up apps with whatever the last person did. I don't need music playing when all I wanted to do was drag some tunes into my phone.

    Maybe I'm using it wrong? I'm not an apple fanatic. I just needed to get into the iOS development game, and it was a good deal on a decent phone (now that the iPhone 5 is out, iPhone 4/4s is a heck of a deal if you are in a contract anyway)

    Apple should have an iOS Device Manager that does all the syncing and such, and keep iTunes separate.

    1. Re:I don't need iTunes as any sort of player by Poddus · · Score: 1

      they used to have something like that, it was called iSync, and IIRC they stopped using it after the iPod went USB (from Firewire).

  61. iTunes is Apple's cash register by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Of course it's a mess. iTunes is a music player, a video player, a file manager, a sync program, and a shopping cart. Quicktime is also bundled in there somewhere.

    The main function of iTunes is to create a direct connection between Apple and your bank account. So Apple is unlikely to separate the shopping cart function from the other functions.

  62. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    Interesting. Apple put up the cloud after I had already found another workaround. That being just downloading the mp3s from places who were willing to give backup copies away for free (piracy, to use the RIAA's preferred terms.)

  63. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by timster · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just to correct the "record", such as this is. DRM-free music on iTunes launched on May 29, 2007. The Amazon MP3 store launched in beta on September 25, 2007.

    You remember it the other way around because memory is an illusion.

    --
    I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
  64. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Funny

    it has been for like what, 6 years now?

    How do I move an episode of Mad Men from iTunes to a non-Apple device?

  65. Tim Cook again by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    With an operations guy in charge, what do you expect? It's roughly equivalent to Microsoft being run by a sales guy. If you want a great show, you need a show man. Steve Jobs for example. If you want a great engineering organization you need an engineer in charge. Larry Page for example. With an operations guy in charge or any other kind of paper pusher, Apple is doomed to a long slow slide into technological irrelevance. Which is fine by me. I wish Tim Cook a long but not terribly happy career riding Apple down as close as possible to the ground.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  66. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by lowlymarine · · Score: 2

    That's a really odd choice of counter-example, since large orchestras like that typically do make the majority of their money through live performances and recording the soundtracks for other productions, rather than through record sales.

  67. Simpler and cleaner... by preflex · · Score: 1

    ... They already had it right. It was called SoundJam MP.

  68. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The great majority of music can be redownloaded DRM-free via either individual track re-downloads via iTunes Plus, or by subscribing to iTunes Match for one year, and letting that match and upgrade all your tracks. I believe at this point you can simply delete and redownload your track for a DRM-free version

    It didn't used to be "free"... they charged you a buck or two (sometimes more) to "De-DRM" your music... glad to know they will let you redownload without cost, though. I thought it was crappy to charge AGAIN to remove something people didn't want in the first place.

  69. The last good version was itunes 4 by lophophore · · Score: 1

    It's been nothing but downhill since iTunes 4. Every update since has progressively sucked more.

    When my iPod dies, I'm looking elsewhere for a music player. The hardware is good, but using iTunes is now a miserable experience. Blechhh.

    --
    there are 3 kinds of people:
    * those who can count
    * those who can't
  70. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by RMingin · · Score: 1

    iTunes Plus upgrade also doubled the bitrate (from 128kbps AAC to 256kbps AAC). This was done mostly to get the labels off their backs about it.

    I have one song that just won't download anymore. All the others I've tried get silently upgraded. I have iTunes Match currently so I can't re-verify. Buying iTunes Match for one year isn't a horrible deal either. I just liked getting a quality upgrade, whitewashing my sources away (no more hard-to-explain pirate group ID3 tags, etc), and having verification that the songs hadn't picked up too many errors. I won't be renewing, clearly.

    --
    The preceding comment is my own, and in no way construes an opinon of the Emperor of Mankind.
  71. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by MrEdofCourse · · Score: 2
    "AC is correct -- music from iTunes has been DRM free for years [again]. Originally it was all MP3's -- then yes, it was DRM'd AAC files."

    Just to nitpick...

    When the iTunes Music Store launched, it was with DRM'd AACs (at 128kbps). The iTunes Music Store never had MP3 files. When iTunes (the player) 1.0 launched it ripped to MP3, AIFF, or WAV, but could play any format supported by the QuickTime engine it used. The rest is correct... Just to add that Apple then transitioned to 256kps AAC files without DRM, and you could pay to upgrade individual files that were 128kbps DRM AAC from the store. Now, through iTunes Match, any DRM files that are matched are automatically replaced with 256kbpsDRM free AAC files.

  72. Bloated Crapple ITunes app alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buy you music and movies through Amazon instead...
    or through Netflix, Hulu, Google Play, etc...if you prefer.

  73. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It may be DRM but isn't the music still in Crapple's proprietary music format? The means I have to buy Crapple devices to listen to the music. If I don't, I'm SOL. Thanks but I'd rather buy MP3, Vorbis, or FLAC.

  74. All in the Marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the coolaid drinkers:
    "Apple Delays Simpler and Cleaner iTunes 'to Get It Right'"

    From the real world:
    Apple missed release date for iTunes and is still trying to "Get It Right'"

  75. Apple Wants To Get It Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Huh? Guess they didn't trust Forstalls abilities.

  76. That's the argument against by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    If it doesn't work the way tech-savvy people - you know, ones who actually know about stuff - want it to work then doesn't that imply that the design is a bag of old cunt?

    Skipping over the epic levels of misogyny in your post, the simple answer is NO.

    Because the "tech people that know about stuff" are the last people on earth qualified to write interfaces for software to be used by people who DON'T "now about stuff".

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  77. That already exists by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Sure, I can accept some tiny, fast software that acts as a middle-tier between my player and my PC

    Well then go for it.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:That already exists by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Hey, nice tip there. Thanks!

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    2. Re:That already exists by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      If you get an iPod Touch another handy utility is iPhone Explorer, which lets you browse application data directories on the device. I don't think it works with the other iPods.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:That already exists by war4peace · · Score: 1

      An Ipod Touch is insanely expensive and I have no need for anything that's more than an MP3 player. iPod Nano is what I'd go for when my current player lets me down.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  78. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wait a second...he is giving that shit out to you? Fucker charged me.

  79. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Today -- just convert to MP3 in iTunes. No issue. And I keep going back to MP3 because of legacy devices connected to stereo's that only understand MP3's [original SliMP3's :-].

    Umm, isn't transcoding from AAC to MP3 going to be pretty horrendously lossy?

  80. So, I have a problem. Help me out, slashdotters. by xevioso · · Score: 1

    I have been using iTunes Just Added functionality for years. Now it is gone. Basically, as a DJ, I am always looking for new releases in a certain genre, and Just Added allowed me to filter by my genre. It's been gone for two months, and perhaps the impending release explains it. Maybe they will put it back in place in some other way.

    For a while, I was able to access it here:

      http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewNewReleases?pageType=justA dded&id=1

      This takes you to the Just Added Page...the problem is the sorting by genre no longer works, while it once did. It is possible that someone with better computer skills can be can enter that page and have it be sorted by category.

      Does anyone have a bookmark anywhere of a page automatically sorted by a genre? If we can figure that out we can probably append the variable to the end of the link and it will work, at least until Apple inexplicably really kills Just Added for some stupid reason in the impending release.

    I tried using this page as a reference:

    http://www.apple.com/itunes/affiliates/resources/documentation/genre-mapping.htm l

    And added a link at the end, like so:

    http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewNewReleases?pageType=justA dded&id=1&genres?id=20

      As an attempt to sort by a genre with the id=20, but no such luck. Maybe it's just not sorting...

      But this is a good start. Anyone want to suggest something?

  81. Don't really use iTunes anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have an iPad and an AppleTV and to be honest, I don't really use iTunes. Haven't actually installed it since I upgraded to Windows 8.

    Everything still works fine. I can manage apps directly from my iPad; iCloud takes care of what syncing to my PC used to do. I can stream my entire content library as needed. I don't even need iTunes anymore for my AppleTV, since that too can directly stream my library. As for music, I use Spotify these days.

    Now yes, my library is all stuff purchased from the iTunes store, so that plays a big part. For non-iTunes stuff, a non-Apple product is better suited alot of the time anyway.

    It's not that big of a deal though. I'm glad I don't have to rely on iTunes; though it wasn't too bad for me on my PC, it's nice not to have to power up the PC just to watch an AppleTV movie. It's also nice that I can just wipe my iPad if I ever wanted to and know that iCloud has all my settings. It really is seamless without a PC or a Mac these days.

  82. Re:on my Macbook Air by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work in IT and most programs just let you install or remove in a few mins, or less... with the exception of iTunes and my Logitech camera software. Anyway I can't tell you how much I hate it when someone I know mentions a 'problem' with iTunes on their Windows PC.

    I find it amazing how Apple can't (or won't) sort out the mess and just make something that's quick and easy to use. I mean they've had time to sort it but I think most people accept that is works more reliably on Apple computers than Windows. Maybe this was because it was designed for the iOS but is it really that difficult to port to Windows?

    I worry that now Steve (RIP) has gone, so has the common sense - and demand for perfection so I am not that excited about this new version until I know how well it works and how long it takes to install or repair. I'm not surprised they delayed as they probably still have a binary polished turd and realise that they can't afford to mess this up if they want to maintain their reputation.

  83. I know why they're delaying the release... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they're finally going to add FLAC and ogg support!

  84. I Use Itunes But by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    iTunes is entirely a huge fucking mess.

    No way around it!

    A way to say iTunes and regain sanity, currently lacking big time at Apple, is to break up iTunes into its components.

    Yea, and Yes. Fragmentation gives customers sanity!

    If one wants to use iTunes Store, the customer uses iTunes Store!

    In another customer wants to use iTunes Web Radio, the customer uses iTunes Web Radio and not iTunes Store!

    Simple.

    Perfect.

    Correct.

    Jobs would say other rather 'nasty' words! We need not go there.

    8D

  85. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    No. He's just moved on from the 2001 notion of multimedia that you seem to be clinging to.

    What are you referring to? Apple removed DRM from the music available on iTunes back in 2009.

    He's probably referring to the video files on iTunes.

  86. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by shmlco · · Score: 1

    One Google search would tell you that AAC is a industry standard format. Plenty of devices play it.

    --
    Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  87. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

    It is not piracy if you download a file you own, no matter what the source is.

  88. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 1

    To be fair, I was modded troll so many times that I believe a +5 is in order.

    --
    A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
  89. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    you're the dumbass for buying DRMed goods and then being pissy when only some and not all DRM was removed from them later.

    I don't know where you got that I was blaming apple, was pissed at apple, or was trying to shift responsibility there. The context was that someone had suggested that DRM was no longer an issue for apple at all. I was pointing out that there were some cases where DRM was still an issue with itunes (and again, it was pointed out to me that as far as songs go, they have now been completely resolved.) Blame was not part of it.

  90. Re:Apple wants to get it right? by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    I know, but I was assuming the RIAA would still try to call it piracy. Did I underestimate them?

  91. Wait a minute! by highphilosopher · · Score: 1

    "and, on Apple's PCs, the portal to its app store."

    First off, Apple doesn't have PC's (per IBM)

    Secondly, It's not the portal to the OS X app store. the OS X app store is a separate program entirely (faster one too).

  92. Great News! by AmelieHooke · · Score: 1

    Apple really catered the needs and wants of their consumers! This surely brings good news to all 'techies' out there including me of course!

  93. Understanding of some by videocable0922 · · Score: 1

    Understanding of some