Media Center Key Accidentally Gives Pirates Free Windows 8 Pro License

MrSeb writes "In an amusing twist that undoubtedly spells the end of some hapless manager's career, Microsoft has accidentally gifted pirates with a free, fully-functioning Windows 8 license key. As you have probably surmised, this isn't intentional — Microsoft hasn't suddenly decided to give pirates an early Christmas present (though the $40 upgrade deal from Windows 8 Release Preview is something of a pirate amnesty). ... The bug involves the Key Management Service, which is part of Microsoft's Volume Licensing system. Pirates have already hacked the KMS to activate Windows 8 for 180 days — but this is just a partial activation. Now it turns out that the free Media Center Pack license keys that Microsoft is giving out until January 31 2013 can be used on a KMS-activated copy of Windows 8 to turn it into a fully licensed copy of Windows 8 Pro. "

Comments

the 'activation' component

[alphatel]

In order to get to the point where you can request the Media Center license, you first have to activate using a command line and kms server (internal or external)

Re:the 'activation' component

[Moblaster]

Moderation gods may flame-mod me down on this. But you also have to "get to the point" where you get over the Metro interface. I have dealt with many Windows newbies (ranging from relatives to customers -- mostly non-techies) in the past who had a very hard time dealing with the idea of a "Start" menu. It's not going to be real fun seeing them deal without it. Especially when the help calls start coming in.

Re:the 'activation' component

[Anonymous Coward]

And you need 25 unique KMS activation requests for Windows 8 before the KMS server will activate any of the Windows 8 instances. That means that this is only beneficial for large scale pirating.

Re:the 'activation' component

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.lee-soft.com/vistart/
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/
http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

Re:the 'activation' component

[Joce640k]

Only works for "large scale" pirating?

That proves this was deliberate - to try to get more people to install Windows 8.

Re:the 'activation' component

[v1]

That means that this is only beneficial for large scale pirating.

Like in China? The "large scale pirating" is generally where they lose most of their money. When a high schooler pirates his windows pro it's not like he was going to pay full retail price if he didn't manage to pirate it, that piracy didn't cost them a sale, despite whatever the BSA will try to convince you of otherwise.

But an entire building full of windows machines in a medium size business somewhere, that's another story entirely. That's where they really, legitimately, DO lose sales. And that's exactly where this little "bug" will be useful. This is a huge problem that kicks them where it hurts.

Re:the 'activation' component

[RMingin]

Not true, there are many 'cracked' KMS servers out there, which are a VM with the most minimal services, running Windows Server in Core mode, and all ports but the KMS ones closed and blocked. Those same servers are patched to keep 25 fake activations renewed at all times, so any and all requests to the "cracked" KMS server result in activations. As far as MS can tell, they are legitimate, since KMS activations are not verified online, except with the original server.

I don't see this getting patched or fixed easily. It will be a lot of work. or it'll require doing things that annoy large volume customers.

Re:the 'activation' component

[alexgieg]

That proves this was deliberate - to try to get more people to install Windows 8.

And that works very fast. Near here street vendors are already offering fully functional pirated Windows 8 DVDs.

Re:the 'activation' component

[EXrider]

I don't see this getting patched or fixed easily. It will be a lot of work. or it'll require doing things that annoy large volume customers.

Since when has MS been averse to doing things that annoy large volumes of paying customers in the name of ineffective attempts at anti-piracy?

Speaking as a sysadmin who's been annoyed and inconvenienced in time-sensitive disaster recovery scenarios, by pointless product activation snafus, probably never.

Re:the 'activation' component

[mic0e]

I see one quite simple way of getting it fixed - making Windows free of charge alltogether. That might save Microsofts monopoly and thus asses.

Re:the 'activation' component

[Anonymous Coward]

http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/39665-KMS-Client-Emulator-for-Increasing-KMS-Server-Client-Count

Inform yourself before you spout nonsense, Idiot.

Re:the 'activation' component

[Anonymous Coward]

You deserved to be modded down. You start off complaining about how you'll be modded down and then proceed to post something that has nothing to do with the topic.

Re:the 'activation' component

[jonadab]

> > it'll require doing things that annoy large volume customers.
> Since when has MS been averse to doing things
> that annoy large volumes of paying customers

Do you not see a difference between "large volume customers" (which, admittedly, should really be hyphenated) versus "large volumes of ... customers"?

For Microsoft, there's a very big difference. Microsoft certainly doesn't mind annoying large volumes of their customers, as long as they're NOT the large-volume customers. This distinction explains, among other things, why Automatic Updates cannot be set to go ahead and install but wait up to 24 hours for the user to shut the computer down. Normal people are annoyed, because they don't want whatever they're doing with the computer to be interrupted. Microsoft's official answer is to set the updates to happen in the middle of the night. This answer satisfies Microsoft's large-volume customers, because they all leave all their computers running all night for no reason while the building is locked. Normal people shut the computer down at night, so then they get interrupted for a mandatory restart during their working day, but normal people don't matter, because they're not large-volume customers. This could be solved by adding a "wait up to 24 hours before forcing a restart" setting, but Microsoft can't be bothered to do that because the large-volume customers don't care.

Re:the 'activation' component

[MrNiceguy_KS]

Sounds like a self-punishing crime.

Re:the 'activation' component

[EXrider]

Yeah, I'm not talking about Windows Updates though. We have free tools like WSUS, or SCCM (not free) available that give you fairly good control over the patch management processes. Security updates and patches are generally a good thing, we want those, they have benefit and value. Compared to WGA, which has absolutely NO "Genuine Advantage" to a company that creates system images with installation media from legitimate sources, and doesn't utilize PC's from sketchy OEM's with pre-loaded software. We know our software is "Genuine" and not tampered with because we paid dearly for it, had it shipped to us, or downloaded it directly from Microsoft's sources ourselves and checked the hashes. Anti-piracy measures like KMS only create additional administrative overhead in a business context, especially in a small to medium size business where we get little to no volume purchase discount anyways. Yeah KMS is free, but it's one more logically unnecessary system that we have to manage just to appease MS.

What RMingin was saying, is that this fix will affect the anti-piracy methods, which will affect everyone, but only temporarily annoy the pirates.

TL;DR: Dear MS, it shouldn't be easier to pirate your F'n software, than to purchase and use it legitimately, quit pissing off your paying customers.

Re:the 'activation' component

[Anonymous Coward]

You dont need KMS at all, all you need is a Win 8 Pro WMC iso installation, enter the free key from Microsoft when asked and activate. I have this working on an old notebook for 2 weeks now via this method that I didnt want to update with Win 8.

On the PC's I did purchase a Win 8 pro upgrade key, after entering your free WMC key it actually replaces your purchased Win 8 Pro key with the free one.

I wouldnt be supprised if you can use reuse your purchased Win 8 Pro key on another PC as it is no longer in use.

Re:the 'activation' component

[marcosdumay]

Hell. There goes the argument about piracy being victimless...

Re:the 'activation' component

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm responsible for a collection of QA test systems running a number of varieties of Windows; during a QA cycle I do dozens of restores a day. Windows activation is very hit-or-miss: sometimes a restore will work just fine, sometimes it'll show a "this software is not activated" message after an hour (at which point testing is usually complete, so I just ignore it and start yet another wipe-and-restore), and sometimes it'll demand immediate activation on startup -- which may or may not involve a phone call to Microsoft.

I'd install activation cracks on the restore images, except that doing so would invalidate their status as Windows as Microsoft Intended It.

Re:the 'activation' component

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never wished for mod points to mod someone down before. But this would get a 'troll' from me.

Re:the 'activation' component

[davester666]

Accountants and MBA's will tell you:

Don't sell the software for what it's value is, sell it for what you can get.

Re:the 'activation' component

[doccus]

China is absolutely the best example .. I am not entirely sure that there are *any* legit installations there.. Now, what's the current estimate of the population there? And, any fix would not be retroactive.. However, we get the last laugh.. Just imagine billions of Chinese trying to figure out the Win 8 interface ;-)

Meanwhile at Canonical

[crazyjj]

Hey, we're giving our OS away for free, no license or hack needed!

Anyone?

Hello?

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Sez Zero]

Hey, we're giving our OS away for free, no license or hack needed!

That which is given has no value?

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

Q: What do Ubuntu and Windows 8 have in common?

A: You can get both for free using bittorrent.

Q: Which of the two features unusable applications with a convoluted, misprioritized UI designed by a retarded aspie?

A: That's a trick question - both do!

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Verunks]

Hey, we're giving our OS away for free, no license or hack needed!

Anyone?

Hello?

this is not true, they check if your windows 8 is activated they just don't check if a valid serial was used, that's why you need to activate your windows 8 with a fake kms server before doing this

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, we're giving our OS away for free, no license or hack needed!

That which is given has no value?

You're right. We should shut down all charities immediately. After all humanitarian charities didn't charge the recipients for all that food and medical aid they give to the poor and needy around the world. So obviously the food provided no nutrition and the medical aid didn't help treat any diseases. All because the recipients weren't charged money for them. </sarcasm>

Really though I'd rather use Free Software than pirate an OS that's not worth paying for. That is valuable to me. Long-time Linux user here. I appreciate that some people want or need Windows. Good for them, they found something that fits their needs. But the fact I can legally download Linux for free absolutely does not mean it didn't meet my needs just as well as Windows meets the needs of others. In fact I have a non-tangible benefit that comes with it: the gratitude that people around the world would actually donate their time and hard-won expertise to provide people like me with such a good experience.

Money is simply a tool to facilitate trade. That's all it is. Don't let it completely dominate your entire view of everything. As anyone who has ever truly loved someone knows, some of the very finest things in life are monetarily free.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with you, the pirates are right and Windows should be free.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, we're giving our OS away for free, no license or hack needed!

And it too is being "pirated".

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

does your OS drive Cable-Card equipped tuners with protected content?

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Ferzerp]

I've never understood this bizarre belief that "Oh, it's activated, that means I have a legitimate copy".

So it activates it, you still have an unlicensed copy. If you were a corporation and exploited this, let's see how the civil court views your "free license".

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[ameen.ross]

Emphasis mine:

some of the very finest things in life are monetarily free.

Mod parent way up

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[dubbreak]

If you check the subject of the parent (which your post is still using) they were referring to Ubuntu. Implying people will jump through hoops to get a free version of Windows when you can get a free as in beer (no hacks, no license required) OS, even on a disc mailed to you.

Yes it's not true that Windows is being given away with no hack or license.. that's not what the parent posted.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Splab]

I think the common thing here on Slashdot is to say Whooosh and point out GP is talking about canonical, the guys who make Ubuntu...

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Ravaldy]

Maybe to you. Your probably a majority on this site but a minority in the world.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet it remains in fact, that Windows 8 may, in reality, have no value.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Hal_Porter]

You're right. We should shut down all charities immediately. After all humanitarian charities didn't charge the recipients for all that food and medical aid they give to the poor and needy around the world. So obviously the food provided no nutrition and the medical aid didn't help treat any diseases. All because the recipients weren't charged money for them.

He's quoting this

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)#Dialogue

Jean Rasczak: All right, let's sum up. This year in history, we talked about the failure of democracy, how the social scientists of the 21st Century brought our world to the brink of chaos. We talked about the veterans, how they took control and imposed the stability that has lasted for generations since. We talked about the rights and privileges between those who served in the armed forces and those who haven't, therefore called citizens and civilians. [to a student] You. Why are only citizens allowed to vote?

Student: It's a reward. Something the federation gives you for doing federal service.

Jean Rasczak: No. Something given has no basis in value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.

So the freeness in "something given" is not purely monetary. In fact in the society of Starship Troopers money does not buy you the right to vote, only serving in the military does. Seems very reasonable to me.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Cito]

who wants ubuntu anymore anyhow?

fuck an adware OS and use Debian, Ubuntu is just a ripoff copy of Debian anyhow,

either be a real linux user and run Slackware and learn to compile your own binaries for your system, or use Debian if you are too scared to compile

the rest of the debian ripoffs are pure shit

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[advantis]

[...] no license required [...]

This bit just isn't true. You get a full rainbow of licences to abide by: GPL, MIT, BSD, Apache, Creative Commons, just to name a few. Just no EULA, and no "fear the BSA" religious indoctrination, which is probably what you mean by the excerpt.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[sjames]

It's quite natural really. MS products are designed to not let you do anything MS doesn't want you to do. It's only natural that users come to believe that anything the software lets them do is OK to do.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[theArtificial]

Because the military is a bastion of order, values, and leadership? Are you highly considering a move to a country with mandatory military service? Just curious, how many years have you served? There are distinct opinions held by soldiers who've served.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Don't equate Linux vendors to charities that provide nutrition or treat disease, seriously, what a douche statement. People can happily live without any OS, but living without medicine, clean water, or without disease is where real humanitarian efforts are required. Nobody is going to be sainted for provided a free copy of Linux. And I think Microsoft and Bill Gates have done more to provide real humanitarian efforts donating billions to the world from the revenue generated selling their OS then Linus or the Linux community has ever done.

Money is not just a tool for trade, it's an unfortunate requirement to provide the kinds of services lacking in 3rd world countries to save lives. A device supporting Angry Birds is not very high on the list goals for a developing country.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, before trying this, I reverted to a pre-cracked vhd installation. The key fully activated Windows 8 without the use of any 3rd-party cracks. It stated that my current key was invalid (no duh...) and asked for a new one. Copy and paste... done.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Applekid]

You can argue whether or not it's a righteous opinion for someone to have, but it's still just a philosophical opinion. Some fascist parallel universe storytelling is just a carrier with which to discuss it.

In moving with charitable giving, I'd propose that donating money is providing use of force (purchasing power) to an organization they agree with, and trust to use that money, along with pooled money from others, to do things that forward their cause. After all, that's what money does, right? Makes people do things? For example, someone may like the ACLU's mission, and would donate to them so that they could continue to pay for defense lawyers for those upon whom might have their rights trampled.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[theArtificial]

Thanks for your reply. I'm a firm believer in charity, and giving willingly to good causes or causes I support which are managed properly.

After all, that's what money does, right? Makes people do things?

If I understand your argument correctly and I offered someone $1 they'd do something for it without question, because it makes them do it? I'd argue that money is a motivating factor, but so is hunger, ultimately it boils down to what that person wants.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[AmiMoJo]

If only. Dating is expensive, unless you can find someone who is happy with MacDonalds (and too old to order a Happy Meal). When you finally do get to have sex you end up shelling out for contraception, extra show/bath time and cleaning your sheets...

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no clue - how many ways can I say you are wrong?

The money needed in 3rd world countries is not needed as money. (What are they going to do with money? Burn it for fuel? Pack it in bricks and build houses?) The money is only useful to acquire other goods and services - nutrition, treat diseases, building materials, etc. Money only has value because we as a society says it does but look at any culture based on barter to see exactly how needed money is. In the US, and most other countries, people earn money by accomplishing or producing services and goods. The money is then exchanged for other goods and services. ie - I get $1.50 to make a widget, I use the $1.50 to buy a hard boiled egg to have for dinner. I don't trade the widget because the guy with the egg may not want a widget while he knows what a $1.50 can be used for.

As for equating linux vendors to charity, that is exactly what it is. Is it a needed charity? No. But it is still a charity. People donate time, expertise, and money to accomplish something without an expectation for profit - the very definition of charity.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

Had value till they packaged it with Unity.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[myowntrueself]

who wants ubuntu anymore anyhow?

fuck an adware OS and use Debian, Ubuntu is just a ripoff copy of Debian anyhow,

either be a real linux user and run Slackware and learn to compile your own binaries for your system, or use Debian if you are too scared to compile

the rest of the debian ripoffs are pure shit

You aren't going to like this because, obviously, you drink the Debian kool-aid, but...

Debian isn't so hot especially for desktops because of their philosophy on 'stable' releases; if theres a bug, no matter how bad it is and its not a security problem, then it doesn't get fixed until the next stable release. That is just no good. I've been a Debian sysadmin for TEN years. I've seen this bite us in servers (eg with backup software (amanda and tar incompatibility)), with desktops its an even bigger problem. Webservers are also a problem because you might want to run recent versions of, eg, CMS software which might require a whole chain of tools to be built, deployed, maintained and kept up to date by yourselves (since Debian won't keep things up to date; they backport security fixes to the old versions).

Debian is great if you can live with old versions. And, when the next stable comes out, so long as you haven't fixed the problems using third party sources or self compiled stuff, then the apt-get dist-upgrade will usually work fine. But if you did take it on yourself to keep things up to date or fix bugs from upstream or third party sources then you will run into big problems.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

dude, seriously, the joke stood fine on its own. there was absolutely no need to throw in the "retarded aspie" bit.

you see, without the "retarded aspie" bit, you were funny. but with it, you just look like a self-centred and massively insecure douche, of the particular sort that feels a need to kick people who're already down.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

If Debian ships with foo 0.1 and there is a bug within it, if the bug was fixed upstream in foo 0.2, the patch for the bug will be backported by Debian maintainers into foo 0.1 and it will become foo 0.1-debian or something like that.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[myowntrueself]

If Debian ships with foo 0.1 and there is a bug within it, if the bug was fixed upstream in foo 0.2, the patch for the bug will be backported by Debian maintainers into foo 0.1 and it will become foo 0.1-debian or something like that.

Only if its security related.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[Anonymous Coward]

If only. Dating is expensive, unless you can find someone who is happy with MacDonalds (and too old to order a Happy Meal). When you finally do get to have sex you end up shelling out for contraception, extra show/bath time and cleaning your sheets...

You are comparing dating for sex, to true love.

You are too shallow and pathetic to comprehend the original statement.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[fredthomsen]

as soon as canonical gained some popularity, bashing them here on slashdot became the cool thing to do. If slackware became the number one distro on distrowatch, some of these same people praising it would drop it like a bad habit. I have no problem compiling binaries; however, I do want to use linux on my desktop and have some good driver support and not compile everything and ubuntu helps achieve this goal. While unity does have its shortcomings, as of 12.10, I find it good to use with unity working like a much improved keyboard launcher, and the web apps integration is really nice. some customization has been removed, and that is sad; however, i think unity has matured and is looking good

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[bingoUV]

Said like a thorough accountant :knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[bingoUV]

No license required to use, but required for distribution. The licenses you mention are required for distribution. Since the context made it clear distribution is out of question, your pedantry is misguided.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[doccus]

Quite true.. free doesn't mean "free".. By this logic, otherwise, money is free, since you don't have to pay for it.. just trade some (or all ;-) of your time for it..

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[doccus]

After all, that's what money does, right? Makes people do things?

Incorrect.. Money ALLOWS people to do things.. given that it's enough, and allowed in the first place.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[theArtificial]

I quoted the parent who stated this, and I disagree which was the whole point of my reply. Happy Thanksgiving.

Re:Meanwhile at Canonical

[advantis]

I was about to uphold my point by pasting this from the GPL:

2. Basic Permissions.

All rights granted under this License are granted for the term of copyright on the Program, and are irrevocable provided the stated conditions are met. This License explicitly affirms your unlimited permission to run the unmodified Program. The output from running a covered work is covered by this License only if the output, given its content, constitutes a covered work. This License acknowledges your rights of fair use or other equivalent, as provided by copyright law.

emphasys mine,

but then I scrolled down:

9. Acceptance Not Required for Having Copies.

You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a copy of the Program. Ancillary propagation of a covered work occurring solely as a consequence of using peer-to-peer transmission to receive a copy likewise does not require acceptance. However, nothing other than this License grants you permission to propagate or modify any covered work. These actions infringe copyright if you do not accept this License. Therefore, by modifying or propagating a covered work, you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so.

emphasis mine here as well.

So I guess you're right. Thanks for making me look it up and update my knowledge.

Too expensive.

[ZorinLynx]

Windows 8 really needs to be less expensive. The cost is ridiculous. Even Apple, King of Expensive Shit, sells their OS upgrades for $20.

Come on, Microsoft. Stop being asstards.

Re:Too expensive.

[Sez Zero]

Apple sells hardware. Microsoft sells software.

Telling MS to sell Windows cheaper is like saying that Apple should be giving away iPhones.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe they sell OSX cheaply because they're in the hardware business and not so much the software business. Your argument there might be a little more solid if you were explicitly granted a license to install OSX on any PC of your choosing rather than apple approved hardware.

Re:Too expensive.

[darkain]

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us

Re:Too expensive.

[gl4ss]

Apples is more like updates.
That you pay 20 bucks yearly for them to remove features.

I really doubt price is the issue for most techies with Win8. and for a lot of folk it's practically free. also if in USA, you could have gotten it for 15 bucks(as an update). but of course this way you can get it free so... but it's not like it's one or two licenses MS has given for free away anyhow.

their strategy is to get as many people as they can on Win8 and the appstore within it.

what's ridiculous is published licensing for windows rt. that shit is ridiculous. of course I'm willing to bet that 0% of manufacturers which are going to sell within the next year are paying the full price.

Re:Too expensive.

[Xest]

£15 - £40 for an upgrade is too expensive for a piece of software you probably use day in day out every single day?

If that's too expensive then what the fuck do you call every other peice of software on the planet that you probably get far less usage out of such as computer games that last for about 6 hrs play time and cost the same price?

Of all the criticisms of Windows 8, price isn't one of them. It's the first Windows OS that actually has sane pricing options.

Re:Too expensive.

[atheos]

"Apple sells hardware. Microsoft sells software. " Mission statements aside, they both sell software and are in competition with each other.

Re:Too expensive.

[SrLnclt]

It is cheap this time around. $40 to get an upgrade from a previous version of windows, and 98% of people already have a previous version.

I usually run the most current version of windows, but never actually purchased it (aside from when Win98 shipped on a HP machine I bought back in 2000). Typically I go through the cat and mouse game when MS occasionally catches up to the pirates and limits updates or other software (like media center) without extra activation checks. For $40 this time around I figured it was worth not having to fight with activation periodically for the next few years.

For what its worth, this "upgrade" key worked perfectly with a clean install.

Re:Too expensive.

[mov_eax_eax]

yes, apple updates are cheaper, OTH they are more frequent, in the timeframe 2009-2012 you pay for leopard, snow leopard, lion and mountain lion, $90 or so, so yes, apple is still the king of expensive shit.

Re:Too expensive.

[RaceProUK]

Microsoft's two biggest earners are Office and Windows. Compared to them, the earnings from hardware sales are comparable to a grain of sand in the Sahara.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

And it has adverts in it. Criminy.

Re:Too expensive.

[jjjhs]

OS X is only designed to run on Apple brand PCs (also called "Macs" for short). You might get it to work on a non-Apple brand PC but don't ask them if you have trouble. $20 is nothing since they know you can only use it on the hardware you already paid out the wazoo for.

Re:Too expensive.

[telchine]

Apple sells hardware. Microsoft sells software.

[fanboy]Apple sells dreams, Microsoft sells nightmares[/fanboy]

Re:Too expensive.

[Ambiguous Coward]

On the other hand, upgrading a household of OS X computers costs 0*(number of computers) + $20, whereas upgrading a household of Windows computers costs, at a minimum, $40*(number of computers).

Re:Too expensive.

[Ambiguous Coward]

(Or rather, the other other hand. I'm not sure how many hands this creature has.)

Re:Too expensive.

[jandrese]

Better than paying $200 every 4 years to remove features.

Re:Too expensive.

[jhoegl]

If by dreams you mean a walled garden that is breached more than a Sorority house, then yes... that is true.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

£15 - £40 for an upgrade is too expensive for a piece of software you probably use day in day out every single day?

If the update actually makes things worse, yes.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time,and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. You may make one copy of the Apple Software (excluding the Boot ROM code) in machine-readable form for backup purposes only; provided that the backup copy must include all copyright or other proprietary notices contained on the original.

So yeah if you want to steal your apple software then great! Don't compare piracy to legit licensing.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Out of curiosity, is there really a reason to upgrade Windows for all computers in a household? I've never felt the need to upgrade any of my Windows computers, I simply use whatever OEM version came with the hardware and only "upgrade" when I have to replace the computer altogether. At most, if there's need to run a specialized application that absolutely requires the latest version of the OS you can upgrade just one computer for that purpose.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as you have the right models.

iMac: Mid-2007 and later
Mac mini: Early 2009 and later
Mac Pro: Early 2008 and later
MacBook: Late 2008 Alumnium, Early 2009, and later
MacBook Air: Late 2008 and later
MacBook Pro: Mid- and Late 2007 and later

http://www.macworld.com/article/1165460/mountain_lion_what_you_need_to_know.html

Want to upgrade your 3 year old Mac mini? Tough shit. You have to buy a new one, you can't even upgrade the relevant components. I've upgraded systems to Windows 8 going back to 2004, and there's nothing technically limiting to earlier systems as long as you have the basic hardware requirements.

When you buy a mac, a portion of the price goes to subsidize future OSX purchases. Thus, while you are handing over $X to the cashier, you're really paying more when it comes to Apple's ledgers.

Re:Too expensive.

[Pieroxy]

Since you decided to play hard to understand, here it is all laid out for you:

Microsoft's business model revolves around selling software.

Apple's business model revolves around selling hardware.

This is not to say Apple doesn't make software, but they make software for the purpose of selling hardware. While Microsoft makes hardware for the purpose of selling software.

Re:Too expensive.

[dubbreak]

So that justifies high prices? I'd expect the elasticity of demand on a product like Windows would mean more purchases in the consumer world if the price was lower (i.e. less pirating).

The flip side is corporate customers are much less elastic. They must buy Windows licenses, so they do, regardless of price. There is also the OEM market, which does get lower pricing, but that's not exposed to the customers and is huge business for MS. Upgrades to software may have been common in the 90s (3.11 -> 95 -> 98 -> XP), but now people often upgrade their hardware and get the latest MS OS that way (thanks to hardware being so disposable these days). Can't really blame people as you can buy a decent laptop for the price of my first CD burner.

Could MS charge a bigger price difference on home vs pro? Sure. Would it make them much more profit? I'd assume no, as they have some pretty smart people working there. Either the market isn't big enough to make a big difference or it would cause issues with their corporate or OEM (e.g. OEM expect X% off retail licenses.. retail go down, they expect their license cost to go down).

Re:Too expensive.

[emuls]

To be fair, OSX updates lately have been more like windows service packs than anything else. They haven't really added any core OS improvements for as long as I've owned a Mac, just a few extra apps like launchpad, time machine, and spaces.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

So the hardware that Apple makes doesn't come with any software?
Apple sells hardware because of the software, OS X & IOS.

Put Windows on the same Mac hardware and sell it for the same price and sales would be 1/10000th as much.

Re:Too expensive.

[captaindomon]

This. I was actually surprised that people think Windows 8 is expensive. It seems to be cheapest Microsoft OS for a long, long time.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Better than paying $200 every 4 years to remove features.

Hold on, every 4 years? Since when did Apple support any of their hardware four years down the line? Sounds to me like you're paying $1,500+ every four years to remove features.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 8 isn't an OS upgrade. Windows 7 Service Pack 1 is an OS upgrade, and Microsoft gave it away for free.

Re:Too expensive.

[TsuruchiBrian]

No, thats not how analogies work. Telling MS to sell Windows *cheaper* is like saying that Apple should be selling iPhones *cheaper*.

Re:Too expensive.

[Cinder6]

Windows 8 Pro upgrade is $39 (digital) or $69 (physical). Windows 7 Pro was $199 for the upgrade (Home Premium was $119) at release. I would call an 80% (or 66%, depending on the version) reduction in price pretty significant.

Re:Too expensive.

[Cinder6]

If an update made things worse, then you wouldn't buy it at any price point--including free.

Re:Too expensive.

[Cinder6]

Interestingly, there is no way to purchase multiple copies of Mountain Lion off the App Store using the same account. If Apple wants you to buy it multiple times, maybe they should make it actually feasible to do so.

Re:Too expensive.

[ilsaloving]

That is promotional pricing, Up till now, upgrades have been >100 and full version have been between $250 and $350 depending on what version you get.

I'm waiting to see what the prices look like once the promotion is over. I've read rumors that they're going to price things a little more reasonably, but I'll reserve judgement until I see them in black and white.

(And yes, I bought the the Win8 upgrade. At $40, why not? That's only, like, 4 starbucks coffees.)

Re:Too expensive.

[vettemph]

Apple sells Walled Gardens, Microsoft sells Idiot Traps and Linux, while not the best at everything, is By the People, For the People.

(unlike the US government which tries to use that same expression)

Re:Too expensive.

[sconeu]

That would be the "gripping" hand.

Re:Too expensive.

[chrisxcr1]

If you buy an upgrade from the App Store you are allowed to install it on all of the Macs you own. That does not work for businesses though. For business use you do have to buy one upgrade for one machine.

Re:Too expensive.

[Cinder6]

It depends on your timeline. Tiger and Leopard were huge updates. Snow Leopard, while it didn't have much in the way of user-facing updates, did have significant changes under the hood, not least moving to a pure 64-bit OS (on supported hardware) and culling PPC support. Lion and Mountain Lion had less changes than Tiger/Leopard, yes, but there are still some significant differences. Auto-resume, system-wide dictation, versions, and iCloud are all pretty big.

Re:Too expensive.

[Nemyst]

Correction, Apple sells dreams only to crush them a year later.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

True, but most apply "OS" upgrades are equivalent to Microsoft's service packs (which are downloadable for free, by the way).

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah. Out of mod points.

Re:Too expensive.

[Ravaldy]

Yeah, because it's so convenient for most users to install software, add devices and keep their Linux OS updated (Sarcasm). Lets not talk about replacing Apple and MS in SMBs because I'll barry you alive.

Linux is for geeks with time to waste at home and for serious enterprise level hosting of all kinds. It's also for small devices that are very prescriptive. Linux doesn't belong in places where people aren't technical experts. The cost of the OS is nothing compared to the hourly rate of a Linux expert that you don't have on staff.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

This could be a good way to reduce software piracy: Make it so bad that people only are willing to run your software at a price way below zero, and the zero price of pirated software starts to look way to high.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

If by remove you mean add, otherwise your post is a load of crap.

Re:Too expensive.

[mcgrew]

Forty bucks is twice what an Apple customer pays for an upgrade. I paid $0 for kubuntu, which has features W8 lacks while W8 has nothing kubuntu lacks except loss of productivity with that stupid metro interface. I just don't see how anyone would pay forty bucks for that turd.

Re:Too expensive.

[Bob the Super Hamste]

you can buy a decent laptop for the price of my first CD burner

I read that and what crossed my mind was no way, but then I remembered what I paid for my first CD burner and then I felt really old. That stupid external (6x read 2x write 1x rewrite or something like that) burner probably would still work if I had a machine with a parallel port and the drivers for it that would actually work on a modern machine.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two upgrade prices, $15 for discounted PC purchased, and $40 for online upgrades. $40 is too much for an OS upgrade? Really?

Re:Too expensive.

[jandrese]

Yep, just like they added the Start Menu, or the ability to have windows overlap the taskbar in Win 7, or playing back videos you ripped at full resolution in Vista, etc...

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you really talk about the start menu with a straight face when respond to my comment? That's not a removal, it's a change. No wonder you're so confused.

I'm glad you managed to list two mostly irrelevant and trivial things, though. Really shows me how unimportant the losses were compared to the features gained.

Re:Too expensive.

[barc0001]

Windows doesn't have any "elasticity". It's the very definition of an inelastic product. 995 out of 1000 non-Apple desktops and laptops run Windows. And even a chunk of those Apple machines are dual-boot. In the non-developing world, piracy isn't making a significant dent in Windows sales any more. Pretty much every non-custom PC and laptop sold at retail comes with a Windows license built into the price, so the vast majority of current gen machines are all legit right from the get go.

And pirating Windows isn't nearly as simple as it used to be so for many people spending the $100 once for an OEM license is less of a pain in the ass than jumping through all the hoops to get it to activate and stay activated. So for many people the choices are a) buy a new computer with Win7 or 8, buy a Mac, or keep your old computer/don't have one.

Re:Too expensive.

[arkhan_jg]

Even Apple, King of Expensive Shit, sells their OS upgrades for $20.

Well, they do now that OSX upgrades largely consist of tying it ever tighter to the App Store, iOS and iCloud. Plus a few driver updates to support the new expensive shiny, while end-of-lifing two year old versions of the OS and hardware older than 5 years.

It wasn't that long ago that Apple were charging $129 for Leopard. Plus, you know, the 40% profit margin on hardware helps a bit.

Re:Too expensive.

[MakerDusk]

You're using logic with fan boys. It's not worth your time.

Re:Too expensive.

[plover]

Yes, but that's a whole year away. In just ten months the iPhone++ comes out and we can all start dreaming again!

Re:Too expensive.

[amorsen]

To get a legitimate license for Mac OS, you need to pay for an expensive hardware dongle.

Re:Too expensive.

[amorsen]

To stay current, you need to pay Apple once a year. Windows on the other hand gets upgrades every 3 years, and you can easily skip a version.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

The software comes in a hardware box no?

Re:Too expensive.

[udippel]

Nice. You got a positive modding so far. Had I mod points, I might have given 'redundant', since this is what anyone could have read on /. since its inception. And as a GNULinuxer myself, I have to state clearly that W8(XP/7) has a few things that give it a distinct advantage. Like running MS office (for those who probably wrongly assume they need it), running a lot of software exclusively (in my case OrCAD).

Re:Too expensive.

[jandrese]

The change was to remove the start menu. There are alternate ways to launch programs, but the start menu was removed.

Re:Too expensive.

[Ambiguous Coward]

That's assuming there are only two sides to a debate. :)

Re:Too expensive.

[Fatal Darkness]

Nice troll. Here's the real text: (bolded emphasis mine)

A. Preinstalled and Single-Copy Apple Software License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you obtained the Apple Software from the Mac App Store or under a volume license, maintenance or other written agreement from Apple, you are granted a limited, nonexclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple branded computer at any one time. For example, these single-copy license terms apply to you if you obtained the Apple Software preinstalled on Apple-branded hardware.
B. Mac App Store License. If you obtained a license for the Apple Software from the Mac App Store, then subject to the terms and conditions of this License and as permitted by the Mac App Store Usage Rules set forth in the App Store Terms and Conditions (http://www.apple.com/legal/ itunes/ww/) (“Usage Rules”), you are granted a limited, non-transferable, non-exclusive license: (i) to download, install, use and run for personal, non-commercial use, one (1) copy of the Apple Software directly on each Apple-branded computer running OS X Lion or OS X Snow Leopard (“Mac Computer”) that you own or control;
(ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, to download, install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software for use either: (a) by a single individual on each of the Mac Computer(s) that you own or control, or (b) by multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Computer that you own or control. For example, a single employee may use the Apple Software on both the employee’s desktop Mac Computer and laptop Mac Computer, or multiple students may serially use the Apple Software on a single Mac Computer located at a resource center or library; and
(iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using OS X Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use.
The grant set forth in Section 2B(iii) above does not permit you to use the virtualized copies or instances of the Apple Software in connection with service bureau, time-sharing, terminal sharing or other similar types of services.

Source: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/OSX1082.pdf

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Forty bucks is twice what an Apple customer pays for an upgrade.

Each Mac OS X release also has a far shorter support lifecycle than each Windows release.

Re:Too expensive.

[QQBoss]

you can buy a decent laptop for the price of my first CD burner

I read that and what crossed my mind was no way, but then I remembered what I paid for my first CD burner and then I felt really old. That stupid external (6x read 2x write 1x rewrite or something like that) burner probably would still work if I had a machine with a parallel port and the drivers for it that would actually work on a modern machine.

Heh, I can't remember what I paid for my first CD burner, but my first hard drive cost me $2000 (after my 33% discount as an employee- we were royally screwing our industrial customers) for all 20 MB of 5.25" full-height SCSI noisy-as-hell goodness. But it probably wouldn't work post-Office Spacing.

Re:Too expensive.

[Fjandr]

Freedom (the non-monetary kind) is rarely convenient, easy, or cheap.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

They replaced it with something else. It's misleading to call it a removed "feature". You might as well say that they "removed" Luna so Vista was a downgrade because it "only" had Aero.

Re:Too expensive.

[cyber-vandal]

Until you want to use a piece of software that doesn't run on Kubuntu. Then the $0 means nothing. Now off you go and pretend that everything on Windows has a Linux equivalent.

Re:Too expensive.

[toddestan]

Do you not consider the Xbox to be hardware?

Re:Too expensive.

[RaceProUK]

The point's about 50 yards to the right, mate.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

No you fuckin idiot, I don't even like Windows, but unlike him I'm capable of differentiating between a feature change and a feature that is a completely removed. Good job with the ad hominem, hope you enjoy mine you idiotlord.

Re:Too expensive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now talk about my spelling or something equally irrelevant...

huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's this license key and activation nonsense?

Sincerely,
Confused Linux User.

Re:huh?

[History's Coming To]

It's essentially a tax on the small proportion of Windows users who inconvenience the company by using copies purchased from real shop rather than downloading pirated versions. One of Microsoft's biggest costs is distributing the physical product, so they have to claw some of it back. Can't blame them, they're in the business of market share rather than the business of DVD distribution after all.

Re:huh?

[Iniamyen]

If you're confused, why are you calling it "nonsense?" Obviously you are enlightened enough to have an opinion. Sincerely, Pedantic Internet Denizen

Re:huh?

[Bonker]

Linux and the software available for it has finally reached the point for me that I can use it on my daily-use hardware. There is nothing I want to do that cannot be done under Linux now, GIMP be damned.

Mint with Cinnamon is a damn fine usable OS.

Windows 8 and it's tablet-wannabe interface will forever remain a distant nightmare of 'What might have been'.

I disagree with the premise.

[Hans Adler]

As far as I know Microsoft *does* have a strong interested in being pirated in those jurisdictions in which they are not going to sell much anything. It's a question of market share and staying the monopolist.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Vanderhoth]

I was about to say the same thing. It's kind of like how Adobe "allows" their photo shop suite to be pirated. They don't formally allow it and will adamantly deny it, but the truth is you get high school and collage students using the product for free, then when they get to the corporate world, where the money for Adobe really is, the corporations by the product that considered the norm for the field.

Right now MS is having a hard time pushing Windows 8 few individuals want to use it and there's no way any major corporate entity is going to switch because they don't want to spend money to buy a product that's probably going to need weeks or months to for people learn to use properly when the existing product works just fine. By having Win8 pirated a wider population of individuals will be willing to use and get use to using it, which will be beneficial and essential to having Win8 adopted by the larger corporate community.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[causality]

As far as I know Microsoft *does* have a strong interested in being pirated in those jurisdictions in which they are not going to sell much anything. It's a question of market share and staying the monopolist.

Imagine if Microsoft openly acknowledged that and stopped pretending that all piracy is always bad for them. In fact they could even give a certain number of copies away, legitimately, in those jurisdictions and justify it by the many ways they benefit from increased marketshare. I wonder how other software companies (not to mention related copyright interests like the *AAs) would react. It would be interesting to see how they try to spin it.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Anonymous Coward]

"the corporations BY the product THAT CONSIDERED the norm for the field."

Alrighteee...

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Anonymous Coward]

true. this whole thing might be an accident, or a genius plan.

just like that company that wanted its game to get pirated and share to gain momentum

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Anonymous Coward]

but the truth is you get high school and collage students using the product for free

lulz.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have personally seen people use photoshop to make collages.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Person147]

Interestingly I work at the moment for a very large well known investment house with many many billions of dollars under management, and we are currently testing all our apps in preparation for a Windows 8 roll out later next year. If enough fail the Windows 8 test we will go to 7 instead, but I have that nagging feeling it will be 8. Insane? I don't think so. An extreme challenge? For sure. I am most interested in how our users cope with the jolting change away from a start menu to a start screen. I have been using 8 since its release on my home PCs and don't see what all the fuss is about. Yes it is different, but not THAT different. Personally I am really looking forward to the move away from IE 8 (!) We shall see in due course.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Vanderhoth]

You do have an interesting perspective. I'm not really a windows user, WinXP is on my Work machine because my company provides the machine and OS. We're currently moving to Win7. The company plans on avoiding Win8 for a number of reasons.

1) We never use the first iteration of something right away and always only after its been out for awhile, so issues will have been found and corrected. We're not paying anyone, including MS, to be their beta testers.
2) People hate change, even the tiniest little things, of course you could say the devil is in the details and the small changes are the most difficult to get use to, like when a buttons location or an image icon is changed, these small things will drive people up the wall because they have to spend tons of time looking for something that was so simple to find before. Eventually people will get use to it and won't care anymore

We all know, even those of us that hate windows, that MS isn't going anywhere. If Win8 is a flop MS will announce Win9 is coming, I expect them to announce it by the end of next year, then they'll take what is working in Win8 for Win9 and throw the rest away. Hopeful companies like yours don't waste hundreds of man hours and small fortunes in developing Metro apps only to have Metro thrown out of Win9. I personally wouldn't be taking the risk and I'm positive Metro will be the first thing to go. The live tiles sound like a great idea, but IMHO it's a crappy, way too busy interface, that'll quickly turn into an marketing tool flooding peoples Win8 devices with crap ads, which will chew through data plans. People will be throwing their Win8 devices out because it'll be too hard to adapt too and will become a dogs breakfast for advertisers will not offering any real benefit to the customers that paid for the phone and the apps that will be streaming ads not stop.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Ravaldy]

We are in the same boat. We are using Windows XP and have since it's launch. It's great but it's time to move so we can benefit of 64 bit and the new hardware support.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Anonymous Coward]

The same has been proved true repeatedly for the music industry - p2p drives sales.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[arkhan_jg]

It's kind of like how Adobe "allows" their photo shop suite to be pirated

Not any more. The site licenced version of CS6 suite is an absolute bastard to bulk install via automated means legitimately due to the heavy-handed DRM and online activation.

If they didn't care about piracy, they wouldn't make it such a pain in the arse for legit buyers.

Ditto goes for Microsoft - the old 'add the volume licence key to the image and done' method was far superior to the KMS method where you have to add an activation process to a windows server, update the keys to support new versions, and the devices are checking in daily via extra AD records to update their activation. Oh, and you've got to have 5 servers trying to before any of them will activate, or 25 desktops before they will activate.

Which was freaking marvellous rolling out the first lab of 20. We had to fake up some virtual machines just to get us past the limit to get the first bunch activated.

Assuming you've got the AD network, the KMS server activated online, put the fake KMS volume licence key in the clients so they attempt to find the server automatically, sufficient unique clients attempting to connect, then they will start activating - congrats - you've now got a 180-day grace period between activations. Which is fine for desktops that connect to the network every day. Not so hot for spare laptops that go sit in a cupboard in prep for a presentation, and then someone pulls em out and, oops, now your computer is complaining that it's pirated. Or a branch office without a direct wan connection to connect to the AD/KMS server.

So you now have an EXTRA multiple activation key, but the internet activations on that are one-use only, and by hand. Every time you reinstall that machine, you use up a MAK activation that's got a hard limit based upon your site licence. So lets hope most of the machines will talk to the KMS, or you'll run out of MAK activations pretty damn quick.

Then you have the SLIC table upgrades they did for windows 7 from vista, to make faking OEM BIOS activation keys harder, applying the same KMS method to Office 2010 but without proper support for adding the keys initially...

If microsoft don't care about piracy, they've got a funny way of making their legit customers jump through ever increasing online activation hoops for shits and giggles.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be really great for the whole copyright situation, but it won't happen, because Microsoft knows they would get slapped hard with anti-trust investigations.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Vanderhoth]

If microsoft don't care about piracy, they've got a funny way of making their legit customers jump through ever increasing online activation hoops for shits and giggles.

Sorry to say, but based on the fact that DRM schemes only affect legit customers, since the first thing pirates do is subvert or strip out the DRM, nothing you said has anything to do deterring piracy and has everything to do with making it look like they're deterring piracy. Basically all it does is make it appear to legit customers and stock holders that there and DRM is a required solution, while only making it mildly difficult for pirates, until one person figures out the newest scheme, then booty ahoy!

CS6 hasn't even been out for a year yet, I know because I have a license for the Web premium package, and there is virtually no difference between CS5 and CS6, at least that I make use of, Photoshop and Dreamweaver work pretty much the same. For a high school or college student, they don't require CS6 to be up-to-date. If it doesn't already exists, I haven't gone looking since I have a license provided by my employer, give it time, there will be a work around for the current CS6 DRM, probably just in time for CS7 to come out. While to me CS6 would be a major expense personally, to my employer it's a drop in the bucket.

Re:I disagree with the premise.

[Skuld-Chan]

Not any more. The site licenced version of CS6 suite is an absolute bastard to bulk install via automated means legitimately due to the heavy-handed DRM and online activation.

Stop spreading fud - I deployed CS6 Design Standard to 1200 machines at the university with ZERO issues via SCCM.

And still no one wants it.

[hawks5999]

This sounds less like a career limiting move a d more like a marketing ploy to get a bigger installed base for Vista 2.0 (or is it Millennium Edition 3.0?)

Re:And still no one wants it.

[Nemesisghost]

Yeah, I was like, "Wait, Win8 is being pirated? By who?" Those that want it, or will end up with it, are those that are too stupid/ignorant to know how to avoid it or get something better.

Re:And still no one wants it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I await the day, where they have a show on TV, where they get people to use Windows 8 for as little money as possible.

"How much money would you need, to use Windows 8 for a full work day?
And would you survive it?
Find out on... OW! MY! COMPUTER!
(Sundays at 10/11c)"

(Captcha: "latrine"... how fitting...)

one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[cheap.computer]

I guess msft read the recent reports of abysmal sales for Windows 8 and decided to use its proven strategy of promoting piracy of Windows to drive up adoption.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree completely. Part of the way Windows conquered the world was to make it simple to pirate it. When Microsoft was at it's peak strength (98, NT, 2000) there was very minimal copy protection. This "leaked" key was no accident.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[causality]

I guess msft read the recent reports of abysmal sales for Windows 8 and decided to use its proven strategy of promoting piracy of Windows to drive up adoption.

I really don't understand what they're doing with Win 8.

I recently bought a netbook that came with Windows 7. I strongly prefer Linux, so it wasn't very long before I repartitioned the drive and installed the OS of my choice. But before I did that, I decided to gave Windows 7 a try, just for the hell of it. I was a bit impressed, actually.

I generally don't like the Windows way of doing things. I prefer the transparency of a *nix system, the storage of important settings in plain text files, the central package manager instead of being nagged about updates for lots of individual programs, the way I don't need malware scanners, the ease with which open source programs can be modified and studied, the fact that drivers are generally maintained with the kernel and not by third parties, the power of the command line, the ease of automation and scripting, the huge variety of choices for graphical desktop, the simple fact that my Linux distro of choice (Gentoo) doesn't assume I'm clueless and thus doesn't get in my way, the ease with which I can find out what caused a problem and fix it and it stays fixed, and the general Open Source philosophy.

Those things about Windows that I don't like are not going to change anytime soon. So it's just not for me. But, having said all that, when I tried Windows 7 I thought that Windows had come a long way. It was stable, solid, and slick. It seemed to me to be what most people wanted: a highly improved and polished XP.

Then I learn about Windows 8 and I'm wondering what the hell the people at Microsoft are thinking. It's as though they want to sabotage themselves. What do they hope to gain here? Is it just that the days of Win 9x made them too arrogant and they don't appreciate that people have more options now? Or what? I haven't seen them pull something like this since either Microsoft Bob or Windows Millenium.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[Nerdfest]

They want to be Apple. Windows 8 is all about Metro and the marketplace lock-in. They want a cut of all software installed.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[SEE]

What was Microsoft thinking? Thinking had nothing to do with it; they had no choice.

See, Windows 98 SE was followed by Windows Me, which sucked more.
Windows Me was followed by Windows XP, which sucked less.
Windows XP was followed by Windows Vista, which sucked more.
Windows Vista was followed by Windows 7, which sucked less.

Windows 7 accordingly had to be followed by a "sucked more" release.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[dehole]

Microsoft sees that they need to get into the "app" market to increase their profits, so they make a platform that puts "apps" first. Microsoft traditionally has removed options from users in subsequent OS changes, Windows 8 is the next progression of it.

How can you encourage people to upgrade if the UI looks the same? It would be much harder to do that.

I personally supplement Windows XP and 7 with tweaks that make it easy to do multiple things (VirtuaWin for multiple desktops, Find and Run robot for quickly opening programs, Winsplit Revolution for moving application windows to predefined areas, WizMouse for scrolling windows not in focus). I wish I could easily do all of those in Linux, but so far, it seems it would require a good amount of work to get it to work.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[causality]

What was Microsoft thinking? Thinking had nothing to do with it; they had no choice.

See, Windows 98 SE was followed by Windows Me, which sucked more. Windows Me was followed by Windows XP, which sucked less. Windows XP was followed by Windows Vista, which sucked more. Windows Vista was followed by Windows 7, which sucked less.

Windows 7 accordingly had to be followed by a "sucked more" release.

Heh that's pretty funny (because it's true). I believe you have identified the pattern!

Still ... I don't like Microsoft one bit, but I would compromise my objectivity if I didn't admit that they have some seriously talented employees who really could do better. Is it that they don't want to break this pattern? Maybe they think a combination of vendorlock and "next one will be better really!" increases sales more than consistent improvements could? Or are they simply a one-trick pony in this regard?

I see a lot of otherwise successful companies make a lot of dumb decisions, things I could have told them were a bad idea. I assume that maybe at least one of these two possibilities is true: what you have to do to become an executive selects for a certain mentality and that one mentality only, with very little diversity of thought; or, once you get to such a position it becomes so abstract and you are surrounded by so many yes-men that it completely distorts your view of reality.

Considering that people who will do anything for positions of authority overwhelmingly tend to be sociopaths, it could be as simple as the sociopaths' inability to sincerely admit error and reverse course when it is appropriate to do so. They'd rather convince everyone else that there was no error.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[causality]

Microsoft sees that they need to get into the "app" market to increase their profits, so they make a platform that puts "apps" first.

Then, logically, their worst fear would be that apps become more portable so that the underlying OS becomes increasingly irrelevant. They don't see that as an eventuality if they continue along this course?

Microsoft traditionally has removed options from users in subsequent OS changes, Windows 8 is the next progression of it.

Yeah. I disagree with it strongly, but there is certainly a school of thought that prefers to remove options because it might confuse us "stupid users", rather than implement those options in a more robust and transparent way.

How can you encourage people to upgrade if the UI looks the same? It would be much harder to do that.

By not treating them like complete idiots and explaining that changes made "under the hood" are important too. Yes, I know that's unrealistic but that's how it could easily be done. Only, this entire industry has invested so much in the opposite form of marketing that at this point, it would be a shock to the average customer.

I personally supplement Windows XP and 7 with tweaks that make it easy to do multiple things (VirtuaWin for multiple desktops, Find and Run robot for quickly opening programs, Winsplit Revolution for moving application windows to predefined areas, WizMouse for scrolling windows not in focus). I wish I could easily do all of those in Linux, but so far, it seems it would require a good amount of work to get it to work.

Two of those are standard features of X (VirtuaWin, WizMouse). What Winsplit Revolution does is handled by some window managers. But generally the best way to do multiple things in *nix is with the command line, which is really simple and straightforward if you know how to use it. Most GUI applications take command-line arguments or have command-line versions that make this very easy. I am not trying to talk you out of your preference (leave that for the zealots), just pointing out that Windows doesn't have a monopoly on those things. That's a good thing no matter which OS you use.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[Sqr(twg)]

Thinking has everything to do with it. Their monoploy is based on the fact that almost every new computer ships with the latest Windows installed. If every version was ok (or if you had the option of getting the latest non-sucky Windows when you buy a new computer), then nobody would ever need to buy an upgrade.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, sure, he has identified the pattern *rolleyes*

It's not like it's been a meme forever or something. Dumbass.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[causality]

Yeah, sure, he has identified the pattern *rolleyes*

It's not like it's been a meme forever or something. Dumbass.

Your comment amused me, because I know just how much you make yourself suffer by being so bitter.

Perhaps one day you'll recognize that this is beneath you.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[Anonymous Coward]

If happy = dumbass, I'd rather be bitter, thank you very much.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[dehole]

Then, logically, their worst fear would be that apps become more portable so that the underlying OS becomes increasingly irrelevant. They don't see that as an eventuality if they continue along this course?

Their main intention is to make money on every windows application sold (or even free, via ads). Customers will know that the Office app only runs on Windows and Mac. If they want their apps to be portable, they will need to get a windows phone, or a windows RT tablet (not sure if they would have to repurchase the apps). Updates will most likely be done through the store as well.

Yeah. I disagree with it strongly, but there is certainly a school of thought that prefers to remove options because it might confuse us "stupid users", rather than implement those options in a more robust and transparent way.

They are making the learning curve very small, so users who want to go to Mac or Linux will be confronted with many confusing things (I have to unmount things?!?!)

Two of those are standard features of X (VirtuaWin, WizMouse). What Winsplit Revolution does is handled by some window managers. But generally the best way to do multiple things in *nix is with the command line, which is really simple and straightforward if you know how to use it. Most GUI applications take command-line arguments or have command-line versions that make this very easy. I am not trying to talk you out of your preference (leave that for the zealots), just pointing out that Windows doesn't have a monopoly on those things. That's a good thing no matter which OS you use.

I might check it out again to see if I can be as productive, thanks for the suggestions.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[Anonymous Coward]

That's how Microsoft breathes.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[david_thornley]

I've got a theory about this. Let's see if I can articulate it.

Microsoft believes, correctly, that conventional desktops and laptops are pretty much dead-end devices. They'll continue to be used in very large numbers for a long time to come, but there will be very little growth, and perhaps some shrinkage of the market. What's growing is the cloud and mobile markets. They're going into the cloud market like everybody else, but they're pretty well out of the mobile market. Windows Phone 7 was not a commercial success. IIRC, Windows mobile market share went down when it came out.

They also believe, I think incorrectly, that people don't really want tablets; they want touch-sensitive mobile laptops. I've seen comments from Microsoft people about empowering people and computers, and so it seems likely to me that they're having trouble envisioning something like the iPad being popular. Moreover, Microsoft has been in the tablet business for a long time. These tablets were expensive touch-screen devices with a standard Microsoft OS on them. Very useful to a fairly small market niche, but not about to break out. I think Microsoft is trying to improve that.

Therefore, they need to break into the mobile market. Obviously, a desktop OS isn't really suited for tablets, so they went with Windows Phone 7. I find it unattractive, but I have to give Microsoft credit for innovation, and some people seem to really like it. The plan is to move from the standard desktop, which is badly suited to mobile, to the new Metro^Wwhatever they're calling the interface. They seem to believe that the UI formerly known as Metro is well suited to a desktop, although numerous people disagree with them.

One way they won the home computer wars was to sell to businesses, and trust that people would want to get something familiar for home, also. It, or something else, worked: of all the numerous small computer manufacturers that were around when the IBM PC came around, the only one that survived without selling "PC clones" was Apple. Therefore, they think that, if they can make people familiar with ex-Metro on their desktops and laptops, they'll have a better chance of buying Windows 8 phones and tablets. They also think that the fact that a Windows 8 tablet is also a laptop will make it more appealing in general. Now, of course, we have to deal with the implementation details.

They announced the Surface and Surface Pro tablets, and made a very big deal of the covers that act as keyboards. The Surface, with Windows RT, was supposed to be on the new UI. Apparently, the Office people didn't port to Metro, so they had to ship with desktop mode as well. Microsoft also apparently hopes that people who buy Windows RT tablets aren't going to expect to run their Windows applications on them. Personally, I think they needed a more distinct name. They got Nokia to switch to Windows Phone 7 and Windows Phone 8 (dunno how that relates to Windows 8).

Of course, the Surface turns out to cost roughly as much as an iPad, if you want the keyboard/cover they were pushing so hard earlier, and has a much inferior screen and very few apps. Microsoft ensured the lack of apps by not releasing the Windows 8 SDK until Windows 8 and the Surface came out, so it started with recompiled Windows Phone 7 apps. In the meantime, they provided no clear signals on whether many of their programming environments (like Silverlight) had a future.

At this point, they wanted the maximum number of people to get familiar with the new UI, so they pushed hard to have Windows 8 on new computers being sold, and forced anybody using it to at least get some exposure (by jarring UI changes for doing some basic functions). One of the most requested features in the beta, if not the most requested, was to be able to stay in desktop mode while using the OS. However, that would have meant most people would never have seen Metro. There are third-party applications available to make it work like Windows 7 again (and, appare

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[Anonymous Coward]

Hint: you could increase Vista performance and even make it look mostly like Windows 2000 by removing effects and visual styles. Aero Glass was the huge resource hog in Vista, but with SP2 it is quite usable.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is Windows 2000 in that list? Does Win2K suck more or less?

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[bingoUV]

VirtuaWin for multiple desktops, Find and Run robot for quickly opening programs, Winsplit Revolution for moving application windows to predefined areas, WizMouse for scrolling windows not in focus

You seem to have managed to get many features of Linux based systems on Windows. Thanks, I am bookmarking this for when I get stuck with Windows again.

Do you have any tips for the ctrl-alt-F2 trick of Linux systems - for logging in as another user on a totally different virtual terminal? I use this a lot in Linux, and inability to do so in windows seems to cripple my occasional use of it. Thanks.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[dehole]

Do you have any tips for the ctrl-alt-F2 trick of Linux systems - for logging in as another user on a totally different virtual terminal? I use this a lot in Linux, and inability to do so in windows seems to cripple my occasional use of it. Thanks.

I unfortunately do not. I mainly use my computers as 1 user machines, so I haven't had to find a replacement for it. For many of the programs I mentioned, you can export your preferences, so achieving the same setup on multiple Windows computers is fairly painless. I also turn off updates to those programs, and save local copies of the programs for future installation.

Re:one way to increase windows 8 adoption

[causality]

If happy = dumbass, I'd rather be bitter, thank you very much.

False dichotomy. You limit yourself by viewing it in such narrow terms. It leaves no allowance for beauty.

One can be intelligent and supremely joyful in this life. The bitterness and resentment are the prime reasons you don't see that yourself.

Yes I am responding late but perhaps you will read this anyway.

M$

[Anonymous Coward]

M$ always makes these things easily cracked. It's just another way they keep people locked-in. How can a FOSS operating system like Linux compete with a free commercial alternative that is of a higher quality (because their developers are paid)?

Look at Visual Studio. All versions have a free download from Microsoft and merely need a pirated key (found with a Google search) to fully activate. Then you can install all updates and use it for life. No cracks or viruses.

How can FOSS ever compete with this kind of lock-in? People start using Visual Studio and then never have a chance of learning something convoluted like vim or using a command line debugger.

Re:M$

[somersault]

I used Visual Studio in the early 2000s and I liked it, but I like other IDEs too. Delphi was what I used for developing GUIs for ages. The options for doing so in Visual Studio back then were a lot more complicated, either that or I just didn't know where they were. I find Eclipse a bit annoying, but I tried Netbeans recently and I like it. I also started using Emacs a few years ago for things like C, scripting and web page editing, and I like it a lot.

So yeah, Visual Studio is one of the few decent products that MS produce (or at least it was 10 years ago), but it's pretty silly to suggest that people won't like the alternatives available to them.

Re:M$

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me tell you a funny story.

During Dev11 - that's VS 2012 for you, folks - lifecycle, there was that major feature planned that was inconspicuously named 'activation'. Yeah, not just the product key, the whole phone home kind of crap. It was, in fact, implemented in its entirety.

And then marketing found out about it, and it was ripped out of the product in less than a week, with a lot of screaming and head thumping in the process.

So, don't feel too guilty about those keys you 'find'. It's by design.

obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

lollicense (and not own)

Freebie

[GerryHattrick]

Just admit that you can't even *give* it away.

Re:Freebie

[Anonymous Coward]

You couldn't *pay* me to fucking use it.

Re:Freebie

[Anonymous Coward]

Kind of like Linux, right?

Re:Freebie

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you're thinking of Linux. 20 years in the field and still can't break 2% on the desktop for oh-how-superior it is? Just goes to show who wants what. People are risking fines and god knows what else to get to Windows. People can't be bothered with Linux even if it's free.
 
Thanks for proving the point for once and for all! LOLZZZZZ!!!!!1111!!!oneoneone!!!!

Re:Freebie

[Anonymous Coward]

>Just admit that you can't even *give* it away.

So Microsoft has finally released an OS has caught up with Linux?

As I surmised

[oodaloop]

In an amusing twist that undoubtedly spells the end of some hapless manager's career, Microsoft has accidentally gifted pirates with a free, fully-functioning Windows 8 license key. As you have probably surmised, this isn't intentional

Yes, in fact, this is exactly what I surmised after seeing the word "accidentally". That usually implies lack of intention.

Re:As I surmised

[Anonymous Coward]

In an amusing twist that undoubtedly spells the end of some hapless manager's career, Microsoft has accidentally gifted pirates with a free, fully-functioning Windows 8 license key. As you have probably surmised, this isn't intentional

Yes, in fact, this is exactly what I surmised after seeing the word "accidentally". That usually implies lack of intention.

They've got to repeat that it wasn't intentional because it was intentional. At this point, that and preinstallation on new consumer computer purchases is pretty much the only way to increase the install base of Windows 8.

No point

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no point in Windows 8 being pirated. I wouldn't use it even if it was free or I was paid to use it.

Re:No point

[Endo13]

Likewise. Really makes one wonder just how accidental this really was.

So what?

[Lieutenant_Dan]

Doesn't Windows have some of "Windows Validation" when people run WindowsUpdate? Well, revoke the activations at that point for the mistankly-issued keys. I'm sure MS has other ways of disabling a copy.

Big deal. What's the loss here? $20k worth of "licenses"? More, less? Still no big deal. No one is going to lose their job on this one. As we keep saying here in /., a pirated copy is never equal to a lost sale. This is a blip.

It is amusing though.

What about windows 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there a similar hack to activate Windows 7?

Re:What about windows 7?

[pla]

You don't even need a key or a (code-based) hack to run Win7 forever without activation - You can run it in fully-functional pre-activation mode forever.

Google "slmgr -rearm" and "IR5". Note that IR5 doesn't install any sort of actual cracks, it just scripts a few simple tasks you can do manually if you don't trust it.

Re:What about windows 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

The most bullet proof way to activate Windows 7 is to "Fake" OEM activation using Daz's loader. I've been using the same version since Oct 2009 and it has never flagged any genuine tests, or been detected by well meaning antivirus software. It will activate starter-home basic-home premium-professional-ultimate. MDL is a good site to find clean download links of untouched MS ISOs, and clean activation methods.

Incidentally MS bumped up OEM activation so now there is an online component, making it significantly more difficult to fake, hence the KMS method used in Win 8, with media centre key causing permanent activation. Win 7 Professional and enterprise can be activated using a fake KMS EXE (which is 78kB), which incidentally is used to activate Office 2010. Incidentally Microsoft modified the KMS used on Windows 8, which is why a VM KMS server, or an open internet KMS server must be used.

Interesting hack, and pretty "Oops" on MS' part

[idontgno]

On the upside, you can have a fully activated copy of Win 8 with relatively little effort.

On the downside, it'll still be Windows 8.

I think I'll pass, thanks.

It's a trap?

[alexo]

Can this key be revoked after, say, a year or so, forcing the (by now committed) users to shell out or be locked out of their systems?

Re:It's a trap?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's because Microsoft is now getting ad revenue from ads displayed on metro interface so even if you didn't pay cash for it they can still make money off you running it. So all the people who wouldn't have bought it anyways can still enhance their revenue. Kinda sneaky business model. I still won't be using it.

Re:It's a trap?

[Anonymous Coward]

So that's where Canonical got the idea.

who cares

[Anonymous Coward]

I had Windows 8 Pro fully activated a month before it was in stores. People don't know how to use Google these days?

Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

What "pirate" in his right mind wants a copy of Windows 8?
 
And since you can only have one giant maximized window at a time now, shouldn't they rename it to Window 8?

Re:Windows 8

[flyingfsck]

Window 1 actually. It is afterall the 1 Microsoft Way.

win8 selling so poorly the gave pirates keys

[Dan667]

I would not be surprised if this "accident" was not intentional to gain some marketshare.

Re:win8 selling so poorly the gave pirates keys

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you'd need to be pretty desperate to download a pirate copy of Windows 8 when you can get a legitimate upgrade on current systems(bought this year) for $14.95 or on any system for $39. It's pretty sad.

Re:win8 selling so poorly the gave pirates keys

[SeaFox]

I think you'd need to be pretty desperate to download a pirate copy of Windows 8 when you can get a legitimate upgrade on current systems(bought this year) for $14.95 or on any system for $39. It's pretty sad.

Actually, it's funny you mention that because there was a little "issue" with that promotion, too. The system for giving out keys didn't really verify anything. So you could lie about the age/make of your computer and give a fake Windows 7 serial and then get a real Windows 8 serial.

Two mistakes in upgrade offer systems for Windows 8, both of which happen to have the effect of increasing adoption of the new OS. How interesting...

Meanwhile at Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Fark! They did it again. This is like MSDOS and Win98 all over. We're screwed. All those XP peeps are now NOT migrating away!

Just a key, not a license.

[leuk_he]

This is not a valid license. It is just a key that happens to work arround the current version of their anti-piracy control. But if you use this, and get an audit, you will have to shell out the full amount of a retail key ( 4 to six times the the price of a basic oem version). It might stop working at any time if you apply updates supplied by MS. They know what keys are published, and can block them if they want.

This is very disappointing coming from a site that is very rigorous when it comes to the free GPL license. The MS license has at least to be paid.

Re:Just a key, not a license.

[Anonymous Coward]

But the key is the tracking mechanism for whether or not you have a valid license. Since the key is valid, and it replaces whatever other activation key was used to activate the OS installation, it represents a 'valid license'. It's immaterial if the valid media-center key replaces a valid and legal activation key (with a valid and legal license associated with it), or if the valid media-center key replaces an illegal, but equally valid activation key using someone elses KMS server.

The net net is that both keys get replaced by the media-center key, so it's functionally impossible (the way things currently are), to detect. Given that the media center upgrade is available to everyone, for both retail and oem versions of the product, there is no way for MS, with the way W8 is now, to know whether your previous key was valid. If they block my valid copy of Windows 8 because they wanted to give me a free copy of media center, I'll sue; they can never block these media center keys, they just won't be useable for new installations starting late January.

Re:Just a key, not a license.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is very disappointing coming from a site that is very rigorous when it comes to the free GPL license.

The GPL has nothing at all to do with software usage. It applies to redistribution.

You don't need to agree to the GPL to use the software.

Re:Just a key, not a license.

[leuk_he]

No, no,

First of all, you won't sue. YOu might call them and complain,but you won't sue. If you don't even take the time to post under a real account here, you certainly do not have time to sue.

Notice that this is only an issue if an KMS server is used, in other ways, enterprise environment. In an enterprise environment it will be very easy to replace the keys.

And i have seen before (XP time period) that the company wide key was revoked, but you had one year to reconnect to the update server to roll out a new key (provided by MS).

We happened to have one lone pc that was not updated in time. Only option to get a valid key on it was the default helpdesk option: put a new image on it. There is no time for real solutions, like sueing MS for misuse of their key management.

Windows 8 looks hilarious now...

[InvisibleClergy]

...but Windows versions never catch on until people realize how useful their "killer feature" is.

XP's killer feature was comparative stability. Vista's was shiny-pretty value and natively playing well with a lot of things that previously needed third-party software. 7's was polish. 8's is almost entirely the touch interface. If touchscreens on decent machines become more prevalent, people will fucking love Windows 8.

Re:Windows 8 looks hilarious now...

[Anonymous Coward]

Touchscreens are just a fad, just like stylus computing was...

Re:Windows 8 looks hilarious now...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank god someone here has some common sense. Windows 8 gets a lot of hate, mostly from people who refuse to use it because the new UI is a huge change. I think Microsoft could have eased the transition by allowing both shells. The version of Windows 8 I was using for awhile (rc1 or 2) had the ability to disable metro, and I did. I love almost everything about Windows 8. Multimonitor support is amazing, the Windows server management utilities are a god send. Client side hyper-v is pretty good, but I don't see myself moving away from VMWorkstation unless MS develops some usable integration tools for solaris and non-enterprise linux distros.

Re:Windows 8 looks hilarious now...

[0123456]

We do have common sense. That's why we know touchscreens on the desktop are a really, really dumb idea unless you're solving crimes on CSI.

Most people probably wouldn't be complaining if Metro wasn't forced on them when running it on a machine with a keyboard and mouse.

Re:Windows 8 looks hilarious now...

[Anonymous Coward]

I upgraded a Vista box at home to Windows 8 just for the extra stability. I will not use the Windows app store and have found most of my time is spent dropping into the desktop mode. I installed a third party tool that recreates the start menu and now it runs pretty much the same as Windows 7 for me.

Re:Windows 8 looks hilarious now...

[Ravaldy]

You either didn't try it, are too dumb to understand it or don't like change. The metro interface is identical to the start menu from before but better. I don't understand the big fuss.

So much crying coming from people who type commands to configure devices and change system settings. Jeez!!!

Re:Windows 8 looks hilarious now...

[Anonymous Coward]

Stylus is still the best for taking notes in a college classroom. All tech has it's place.

Re:Windows 8 looks hilarious now...

[Anonymous Coward]

And most wouldn't be using it which means the windows store that goes with it wouldn't be used hardly. I am still waiting for the person to figure out how to do a start up bypass of Metro. Then and only then I will move on. Besides I have at least 10 yrs of 7 before they kill it.

Re:gave GAVE *GAVE*

[wonkey_monkey]

Thank you! Homophobic pejoratives aside, good point.

If someone offered you a free dog turd...

[Anonymous Coward]

...would you want it?

That's as good a deal as a free copy of Windows Vista, or ME, or Microsoft Bob, or perhaps even an AOL CD! :)

Undestandable move from Micro$oft...

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering the Windows 8 sales look like the New York city subways the day after Sandy paid her visit, they have
to do something to make it appear like the product is moving, and ferret out all of the "Metro" pirates out there.

CAPTCHA = opulent (funny choice of a word...)

Not enough to get me to use Windows 8

[madhatter256]

The relative ease of pirating Windows 8 by what the article describes is still not enough to persuade me into using Windows 8...

Sorry, Microsoft.

Re:Not enough to get me to use Windows 8

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if it were free and hand delivered to me by Ballmer, I wouldn't want Windows 8.

Will they ever get that right?

[Deadstick]

Back when XP came out, the upgrade disk was about half the price of a "full retail" disk. If you loaded the upgrade disk on a new build, it would ask you for the CD of your previous version. All you had to do was borrow an ME disk and put it in; then you could go right ahead and load XP from the "upgrade" disk.

Re:Will they ever get that right?

[geekboybt]

I've not tested Windows 8, but 7 was even easier: Install it once on a bare disk with no key, and then "upgrade" that install. No need to scrounge up a disk from a previous edition.

There's really no point in doing that, though, when the OEM license is roughly the same cost as the upgrade.

It's not a gift

[kimvette]

A free Windows 8 license is not a gift. . . it's a punishment! ;)

Tin foil hats and conspiracy theories ...

[stevez67]

... are just so much fun to read. They come in second only to fanboy shyte storms in entertainment value.

Changing business models

[DragonWriter]

"Apple sells hardware. Microsoft sells software. " Mission statements aside, they both sell software and are in competition with each other.

Apple is a hardware company (that also makes software to support the hardware) that has been slowly pivoting to sell online services and serve as the middle man in content delivery.

Microsoft is a software company (that sometimes also makes hardware to move the software) that has been slowly pivoting to sell online services as serve as the middleman in content delivery.

Apple dropping prices on iPhones and Microsoft dropping prices on Windows and similar software both make sense in that context -- where they are competing with firms that are already optimized to sell online services and serve as the middle man in content delivery and which are also delivering hardware and software -- at low prices -- to support the online services / content delivery business (e.g., Google, Amazon.)

Re:Changing business models

[madhi19]

Considering that Microsoft is moving toward having their own Online Software Store a la "Apps Store". I would not be surprised if Windows 8 at least the home version is the last Windows version for home usage that you ever have to pay for. Odds are they go the Bic way for W9 home edition. "Give away the razor sell the blades!"

Horseshit!

[Type44Q]

In an amusing twist that undoubtedly spells the end of some hapless manager's career, Microsoft has accidentally gifted pirates with a free, fully-functioning Windows 8 license key.

This falsely assumes that Microsoft wouldn't want Win8 to be pirated, when that's the very thing that'll help ensure their continued dominance.

(It'd be safe to assume that the higher-ups at Microsoft are also aware of this...)

In related news

[GameboyRMH]

Dirty needles accidentally give users free AIDS.

Captain Obvious to the rescue

[antdah]

I and many other don't use Windows daily and wouldn't use Windows 8 daily. I use Windows 7 for the occasional gaming and that is it. Every other task is performed either in OS X or GNU/Linux.

Re:Captain Obvious to the rescue

[flyingfsck]

Is 'Windows Daily' something like the 'Ford Lately'?

Re:Captain Obvious to the rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

This would be an okay counterpoint if you hadn't gone with this whole "captain obvious thing". You're in a clear minority of users, and you know that. The parent's point is that this is software that the owners would be using extensively on a daily basis, and that the price was pretty reasonable for that. It has nothing to do with using Windows on a daily basis or not, it's a general question about whether or not you think $40 is too much money for an OS. Way to miss the point entirely, and act like minority of users you represent is anything more than a statistical blip.

Its obviously intentional

[JustNiz]

Every version of Windows so far has either been directly copyable, had token copy protection that is trivially easy to circumvent or had a 'leaked' registration hack emerge within a few weeks of its release.
For a method involving remote online validation, It really isn't hard at all to think of a scheme where validation hacks wouldn't be even possible.
At some point, you have to conclude this weak security is intentional, as are the leaks too. Its just another way for Microsoft to keep their product on most peoples desktops.
I'm actually surprised that MIcrosoft havent made Windows 7 and 8 available as a free download, at least for non-corporate use, just to get/keep more people on the Microsoft hook.

Re:Its obviously intentional

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm actually surprised that MIcrosoft havent made Windows 7 and 8 available as a free download, at least for non-corporate use, just to get/keep more people on the Microsoft hook.

No, that would bite into the sweet, sweet OEM business they get.

MS cares about OEM (where non-technical means exist to sue their asses if OEM runs afoul of giving MS their money) and business use. People building their own PCs or manually upgrading represent no appreciable opportunity compared to their sales even when everything goes 'right'.

Re:Its obviously intentional

[Erikderzweite]

For Microsoft, it is still better when people use pirated copy of Windows rather than legal Linux. People that build their own PCs are the ones with the clue so they are harder to keep with Windows. Therefore it makes sense for Microsoft to make copy protections just right -- hard enough for clueless, but trivial for more advanced users.

Remember, they got over 90% of, say, Chinese or CIS markets without spending a dime on advertisement -- the pirates were doing all the hard work. Now MS can get their profits off governments and companies because of that market share.

RHN Activation Key

[Frankie70]

Here - https://access.redhat.com/knowledge/solutions/2474

You can read about license keys and activation nonsense.

Why would anyone pirate it?

[flyingfsck]

Why would anyone pirate Windows ME, Vista or 8?

The more they lock it down

[p51d007]

Sometimes the easier it is to get around it. Why would you want win8 anyway, unless you have to have bleeding edge (which it isn't). Unless you have a touch screen, what's the use? Win7 works AS WELL as Win8.

Windows 8 is just another way for Microsoft to sho

[Anonymous Coward]

I will not use it if it's free, why? Well it's a advertizing platform on top of a very inhuman GUI: http://owened.co.nz/windows-8-is-just-a-way-for-microsoft-to-show-you-ads

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/windows_8_Review

Microsoft --> go fuck yourself

Market Share

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't intentional. Need to pad some market share numbers? Piracy doesn't really result in lost income, most of the money for OS sales comes through OEMs. Nobody is really buying copies of Windows 8.

I'm having a "Tron Legacy" flashback

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WrhZsttinA I wonder if there was parachuting involved?

Re:Too expensive...for Buffett

[BoRegardless]

Warren Buffett in the late 90s as a traveling buddy of Bill Gates was asked if he invested in Microsoft and Warren replied that he didn't invest in things in which he didn't understand the long term profitability.

Warren in retrospect was entirely 100% right. If you can't come up with good reasons for people to buy your products at what is attractive to them, they will figure another product to buy.

Probably 95% of the users of MS Word could do everything they normally need on Open Office software. That doesn't bode well for MS long term.

History repeating

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me of how NT4 Workstation could be installed with a Windows 95 OEM Key.

No, not gave

[Anonymous Coward]

"accidentally gifted pirates with a free..." should be "accidentally given pirates a free...".

Now I'll shut up before McKean's law kicks in.

Microsoft and piracy

[bmo]

It has been known for years, and publicly admitted by Bill Gatess 14 years ago that piracy is Microsoft's key to building and keeping market share. While Ballmer has threatened in the past to turn up the anti-piracy knob to 11, that was all bluster. The goal is not to eliminate piracy, but make it just inconvenient enough for most people.

If you are willing to jump through the hoops to pirate Windows and Office, Microsoft would rather you do that than try any alternative at all. Because they know that those who try alternatives and get by with "good enough" are gone for good.

Bill Gates' original "Open Letter to Hobbyists" can be completely disregarded as the writing of a naive young man soon to figure out that piracy builds market share.

My "diagnosis" of the situation is that this was not by accident. My prediction for the future is that Microsoft will not fix this, or at least make a half-hearted attempt to make it look like it's harder. They will not close this hole.

--
BMO

Somewhat related...

[Anonymous Coward]

So I note that the WMC key must be *activated* by January 1st. What if I have a catastrophic drive failure in March, is the free upgrade no longer valid when I go to repair it?

Win8 Classic Shell

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't "upgraded" myself, but I heard this makes Win8 very close to Win7. http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

Too expensive.

[u64]

Windows8 wasn't much of an update at all - many features where removed, few added. And it was a living hell to use.

Why???????

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would pirates want this crap? Story has to be a joke.

Re:Too expensive...for Buffett

[udippel]

It is a pity that I have no mod points anymore.

This is not only true (Buffet and his statement), it is valid and proven. Since 2000 the share prices of MS have been hoovering around then same level.
Gee, apply some common sense, that's enough. Like Facebook. How many people can be sustained by this planet? And even if every single one has a Facebook account, there is a natural limit of potential users. And then??
MS was similar. A huge advance in the 1990, no competition, effectively. (IBM was just too half-hearted with OS2) Something had to come. And it came. MS was even lucky that IBM bungled, the BSDs bungled, Linux kind of failed to unify in the struggle to the desktop of the year. And yet, as we are approaching the post-desktop-period ['desktop' as a PC in a huge separate casing], MS is not there, but others.

I for one could not exclude totally that MS will foster similar activities as described in the news deliberately to flood the world with its otherwise not-too-kindly-perceived W8. Giving it effectively for free (as in beer), it will be adopted globally, quickly. Since mankind has taken a lot of crap from MS (and others) since its early days, chances are for a resurgence of Windows due to its unified UI on and for any machine. Free Of Charge.

Sorry, But I'm Still Not Interested

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is certainly welcome to try the "Look, you can even pirate it! Please?!" approach, but it's not going to work. I've played around with it at Fry's and I've seen enough to know that I'm not going to install it on any of my computers and that's that. Sorry, Microsoft.

At first I was like...

[Luveno]

Cool, it looks like I can go get a free Win8 license key! Then I thought about the time I'd have spend looking into it and realized that I cared so little about Win8 that I went back to whatever I was doing beforehand.

Leapfrog 8

[Anonymous Coward]

TBH, Even if Microsoft themselves were to give away Windows 8 free now I would still leapfrog it and see what they learn when rushing out 9 from their experience. Gaming is the main reason I still run a legit version of Windows 7 on my main PC along with a host of other things I am used to (probably achievable with a lot of research and faffing at the command line of a linux desktop though but why bother). iMac & Macbook Pro (both hacked back to 10.6) for looking after 9 xserves and 600+ other college macs for work, XBMCbuntu for under the TV, Centos for our datacentre servers and home NAS but I am yet to find a Linux desktop experience that meets "my" needs, it would probably be a mixture of OSX 10.6 and Windows 7 minus all of the touch screenary, its failed to emerge (that I have found yet) so I am stuck with Windows 7. I continue to try new spinoffs of Ubuntu and/or Fedora in the hope that the experience will eventually be worth while but alas not yet.

Roll on the year of the linux desktop and a load of native Linux games, until then, why would I want to use an emulator to run games when I can have the OS it was intended for for half of the price of my graphics card.

Marketing scheme?

[Delusion_]

Maybe they just needed to give away a few million copies to make their after-launch marketing sound more impressive.

I was particularly enamoured of the Windows 8 launch event which featured all the Times Square advertisements about how "THE WAIT IS OVER".

Who was waiting? One turkey is enough this holiday season, and I'm going to eat it.