Hello, I'm a Mac. And I'm a $248 Win8 PC.

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Hello, I'm a Mac. And I'm a $248 Win8 PC.

Posted by Unknown on Monday November 26, 2012 @10:12PM from the boosting-sales-numbers dept.

theodp writes "A little birdie told me which Windows 8 machines would sell out fast. 'Cheep' ones! While no official sales figures have emerged, anecdotal evidence suggests that cheap Windows 8 laptops were a big hit with Black Friday shoppers, leaving some Walmart and Best Buy bargain hunters disappointed at missing out on the sub-$250 deals. So, was the Doctor-Desktop-and-Mister-Metro dual nature of Windows 8 and lack of a touchscreen no big deal to these bargain basement 'Laptop Hunters', or did they not realize what they were buying? Or, as a GeekWire commenter suggests, perhaps they were really just looking to score an ultra-cheap Linux laptop!"

94 of 642 comments (clear)

I can assure you... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-26 22:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

They have no idea what they purchased, it was a cheap buy and they will be sorely disappointed when it runs like crap a year from now.
1. Re:I can assure you... by deniable · 2012-11-26 22:29 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  At that price, toss it a year from now and buy another.
2. Re:I can assure you... by serviscope_minor · 2012-11-26 22:30 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  it was a cheap buy and they will be sorely disappointed when it runs like crap a year from now.
  I know several people who bought very cheap netbooks and were very happy with them for a number of years. Heck, I still use my ageing eee 900 daily.
  Cheap doesn't mean bad or badly built. Not everyone needs a 64 processor monster to surf the web.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
3. Re:I can assure you... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-26 22:42 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  They have no idea what they purchased, it was a cheap buy and they will be sorely disappointed when it runs like crap a year from now.
  Well, Win8 is more effective than Win7 on low-end hardware (lower memory and process footprint, optimized performance), and supposedly much better at keeping system fresh, not degrading (but let's wait and see on that one). But regardless, some of these "cheap" PCs are actually impressingly powerful, compared to what a more mid-priced PC would be just a year ago. Just look at the specs linked. To get that much for that low price is impressive. It seems that the main drawback going this low on price isn't as much performance and specs, as it is bulk and weight.
4. Re:I can assure you... by wisty · 2012-11-26 23:07 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  What Moore giveth, HTML5 taketh away.
5. Re:I can assure you... by symbolset · 2012-11-26 23:28 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  The phrase is: "What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away."
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
6. Re:I can assure you... by mystikkman · 2012-11-26 23:38 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Not true since Vista. Slashdot is full of folks who've last used Windows more than 10 years ago and thus complain of things like bluescreens, bloat etc. which makes them look like idiots.
  Get with the times and at least update your hate machine.
7. Re:I can assure you... by slim · 2012-11-26 23:40 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Every couple of years, my parents ask for help buying a laptop. I tell them to just go to a PC World-type shop and pick out one with a screen size they're comfortable with, that feels solid enough from a build quality perspective. They don't want to compile kernels or play Crysis; they want to run Word and a browser. So I know anything in the shop will do what they need for a couple of years at least.
8. Re: I can assure you... by PixetaledPikachu · 2012-11-26 23:47 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  More like symantec/McAfee/Avira take away. Windows on it's own is fine. But combined with antivirus software, it's crap.Worse, you can't leave windows box without antivirus, so you're screwed
9. Re:I can assure you... by ByOhTek · 2012-11-26 23:49 · Score: 2
  
  s/vista/2000/
  Actually in the upgrade list from Windows 2000 to 7, Vista is the one I'd exclude (I'm tempted to exclude Windows 8 due to the added UI fuckups as well, but 3rd party apps seem to fix those).
  
  --
  Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
10. Re:I can assure you... by mystikkman · 2012-11-27 00:05 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Your objection can't take away the fact that this really is the rule: "What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away." The rule is not just about performance - it's also about freedom to use your own data.
  Even with all your rant about your deep knowledge of MS, the fact remains that my 6 year old AMD Dell HTPC(a hand me down from work) that originally came with Vista speeded up quite a bit with Windows 7 and then even more with Windows 8. All this only one 1 gig of RAM but I upgraded it to 2 after getting a stick free from work. It boots faster, plays 1080p videos out of the box, even Divx/Xvid avi files and mp4 files, so I don't see the point about taking away the freedom to use my own data.
  As I said, get real with your criticisms and perhaps actually use a Vista era machine with Windows 8 before spouting some armchair speculation nonsense about people/managers at Microsoft or whatever as if you're an insider. Which kind of own data is Microsoft preventing you from using or locking you out from on Windows?
11. Re: I can assure you... by LordLimecat · 2012-11-27 00:19 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  For the last 4 years or so, the viruses have been exploiting browser plugins. That would be the collective faults of Sun, Oracle, and Adobe.
12. Re:I can assure you... by hairyfeet · 2012-11-27 00:24 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Oh lord, did you REALLY just do the Braveheart "They can't take away our FREEDUM!" bit? Seriously?
  And frankly Win 7 runs great even on low power devices, I have an E350 netbook and it is pretty damned snappy with win 7, I can even plug it into an HDTV and watch full 1080P. And while I fricking HATE the Metro UI even I'll admit they have made the underlying OS faster, it boots faster, uses less memory (thanks to killing Aero, which is the first thing i do on a Win 7 build) its just a damned shame that they had to wrap it up in a "LOL I Iz A Cellphone LOL" UI.
  But to say that MSFT can't write a good OS is just the height of arrogance, its elitist horseshit to make little nerds feel good about themselves by ignoring the fact that there are literally hundreds of millions of Windows installs out there and you know what? people are happy with them, it does what they want it to do.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
13. Re: I can assure you... by bmo · 2012-11-27 00:33 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Have you been surfing deviant porn sites again?
  Religious sites have been serving up malware more than porn sites now.
  Indeed, I belong to a financial site whose ads were serving up malware at one point. It wasn't them, but the ad service.
  Your point of view is outdated.
  --
  BMO
14. Re: I can assure you... by hairyfeet · 2012-11-27 00:38 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You are using the wrong AV then, just use what I use at the shop and give to my customers which is Comodo Internet Security Free. Its lightweight, only uses 60Mb-90Mb depending on what features you use, has by default sandboxing, and while the defaults are logical and sane you can tweak to your heart's content so you only have what you want. For example i don't IM or use download mail so those features are turned off. Its really nice and its the only one that i know of that is free for personal AND business use,they make their money on the server products and web services.
  Of course anybody that got one of the BF laptops will have to clean off a Horton or mcCrappy infection, I call it an infection because frankly I've seen malware that uses less resources than those two, but once that crap is gone and a decent AV like Comodo or Avast Free (my former "go to" and still nice, just too chatty for my taste now) is put on? Well then even a netbook will purr like a kitten. Oh and i'm sure some will say "What about MSE? its super low resource!" yes it is but frankly it is really only good for geeks, as I've found that while it catches bugs in downloaded files just fine it sucks ass at drive bys. With something like Comodo or Avast you have MUCH better drive by protection as both do scan before load on web pages which MSE don't and this when combined with a low rights browser like any of the Chromium variants makes it pretty damned hard to infect Vista/7/8. In fact the last time I saw one of those pwned the user uninstalled his AV so he could install a "porn codec" which of course was just a trojan that filled the system with malware.
  Trust me, I have customers that can get more viruses than a Bangkok whore on coupon day and if Comodo can survive them without letting the machine get pwned? Then it'll work for anybody.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
15. Re:I can assure you... by bluescrn · 2012-11-27 00:39 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  It take a stronger CPU to lift all those bigger, heavier pixels, obviously...
16. Re:I can assure you... by Doctor_Jest · 2012-11-27 00:44 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  While Windows 7 was a vast improvement in many ways from the "open beta" that was Vista, Microsoft still has quite a few early design decisions that haunt them. I often wonder about how the Registry improves from release to release (it was a fairly crappy way of configuring the OS back in XP), but quite frankly the Registry itself is one of the things I loathe about Windows in the first place. But that's just me.
  
  But to say that MSFT can't write a good OS is just the height of arrogance, its elitist horseshit to make little nerds feel good about themselves
  What's funny is not that you bristle at the opinion, but that anyone's opinion that Microsoft can't do X or shouldn't do Y is somehow "elitist" horseshit. Sure the opinion was dripping with one poster's view of what makes a good OS, but the fact remains Microsoft has given us some massive turds in the history of Windows. The fact that they appear to have gotten it right with Windows 7 is not reinforced by the massive UI shift to leverage their Windows codebase into the smartphone market in Windows 8. And you agree with most of the rest of /. that the Metro UI is positively junk. It is showing the true nature of what a company searching for relevance in a changing technology climate can do, given enough money and micromanagement. (It could be any company, not just Microsoft...)
  What I cannot dismiss, and I do not believe is a fault of poor coding but more succinctly Microsoft's disdain for its customers, is the constant upheaval in Office file formats, phone home DRM, and an otherwise high regard for the *AA's built into the core OS in order to please them. I won't go into detail about that here, because it's been covered on /. umpteen times, but that nonsense alone has made me hate Microsoft at a basic level. Their culture, like Apple's, is one of contempt for the user's freedom to do what they wish with their purchased machine. The SecureBoot fiasco is just another in a long list of crimes. I say crimes, because frankly they were convicted of abusing monopoly power. That wasn't a witch hunt, like some contend. It was exposing the true nature of Microsoft, as reflected in their management. Rather like Jobs' personality and vision is reflected in Apple's walled garden and sealed computers (laptops in particular, but you can also point to the recent iMacs as another in a long line of removing freedom from the user...) I think we can both agree that Microsoft and Apple are one in the same when it comes to putting their goals of lock-in well above making good, solid OSes that get out of the way and let people be, well, people.
  
  --
  It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
17. Re:I can assure you... by Drakonblayde · 2012-11-27 00:44 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I tried, but since my hate machine is running Windows ME, Windows Update tells me to frak myself.
18. Re:I can assure you... by symbolset · 2012-11-27 00:50 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  But to say that MSFT can't write a good OS is just the height of arrogance, its elitist horseshit to make little nerds feel good about themselves by ignoring the fact that there are literally hundreds of millions of Windows installs out there and you know what? people are happy with them, it does what they want it to do.
  This is probably going to come off as rude, and for that I'm sorry. You say that Microsoft can write good software. Being a member of the community these last 30 years and skilled in the art, I would ask: "show me."
  I ain't seen it yet.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
19. Re:I can assure you... by Chrisq · 2012-11-27 00:52 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Not true since Vista. Slashdot is full of folks who've last used Windows more than 10 years ago and thus complain of things like bluescreens, bloat etc. which makes them look like idiots.
  Get with the times and at least update your hate machine.
  I've had the BSOD in Windows 7. Not often, but its still there
20. Re:I can assure you... by gl4ss · 2012-11-27 01:15 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  "Best Buy offered a 15.6-inch Lenovo with 2GB of RAM and a 320GB hard drive for $187.99,"
  lemme tell you, those chromebooks have a lot of work ahead of them.. pc isn't dead at that pricing, far from it.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
21. Re:I can assure you... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-27 01:18 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I've had a couple as well in the 3.5 years I've been using Windows 7. They happened right after I updated to a new NVIDIA driver, and stopped happening after I rolled back to the previously installed version.
  I'm fairly convinced those BSOD's were NVIDIAs fault, not Microsofts.
22. Re:I can assure you... by MightyYar · 2012-11-27 01:23 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It is still bloated, and it does still bluescreen. It's just that the "bluescreen" now reboots automatically instead of giving you useless error information, so it's an "improvement" of sorts. I would have made the error messages a bit more user friendly, or even rebooted the computer and then alerted the user as to why their computer rebooted... but hey, that would have been harder I guess. Windows 8 is the definition of bloated. It adds a ton of new features that make tablet use more appealing, but most people aren't running it on a tablet. Thus, you are carrying around all of this tablet crap when all you want to do is use your desktop/laptop.
  Stability is far, far better than it was in the 9x series of Windows, but I can't say it really has improved tremendously over 2000, though it does seem a bit less susceptible to flaky hardware. I actually like 7 - it was a shame what they did to it in 8.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
23. Re:I can assure you... by symbolset · 2012-11-27 01:34 · Score: 2
  
  Also, they discontinued that product. To complete the cycle for you.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
24. Re: I can assure you... by udippel · 2012-11-27 01:34 · Score: 2
  
  Good argument, wrong reason.
  Zero-Days is not exactly what AV is able to defeat easily.
25. Re:I can assure you... by teg · 2012-11-27 01:50 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Not true since Vista. Slashdot is full of folks who've last used Windows more than 10 years ago and thus complain of things like bluescreens, bloat etc. which makes them look like idiots.
  Get with the times and at least update your hate machine.
  Bluescreens still happen... My work HP laptop running Windows 7 could be relied upon to provide a couple each hour it was running a skype conference. Sound driver, I believe.
26. Re:I can assure you... by ozmanjusri · 2012-11-27 01:51 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  At that price, toss it a year from now
  It'll be a race to the bottom for Win8 PC prices now. That's the only way they'll get them off the shelves.
  Windows 8 sales flounder as critics pan clumsy interface
  Windows 8 sales in Australia and overseas are below expectations, with one US expert describing its user interface as "a monster that terrorises poor office workers and strangles their productivity".
  http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/windows-8-sales-flounder-as-critics-pan-clumsy-interface-20121126-2a2d0.html
  
  --
  "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
27. Re: I can assure you... by The+MAZZTer · 2012-11-27 01:53 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Windows 8 comes pre-loaded with a version of MSE rebranded as Windows Defender.
28. Re:I can assure you... by Karzz1 · 2012-11-27 02:13 · Score: 2
  
  ...that's why half of my team uses MS Office while others use Open Office...
  
  If there were a better alternative to MS Office I'd consider using it...
  
  Are you a politician?
  
  --
  Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
29. Re:I can assure you... by DoraLives · 2012-11-27 02:41 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I beg to differ.
  
  I've been doing home computer repair for the general public for literal decades. I used to do it as a side job or for charity, but it's been my sole income for many years now. Bottom line: I've got a fair amount of experience working with equipment that's on the failing end of its life cycle, all of which has been entrusted to the tender mercies of your typical non-savvy user.
  
  And I'm a pattern recognizer, too.
  
  And nowadays the pattern is one of complete random events, for all classes of home computers.
  
  I've got people with ten year old eMachines running XP who's hardware continues to run without the slightest issue, and I've got people with brand-new three-thousand dollar specialty machines who can't catch a break, with bad motherboards, PSU's dying and taking other components out with them when they go, hard drive failures of every stripe and color, and on and on and on.
  
  I've decided that there's really no sensible difference in equipment anymore, so far as reliability goes.
  
  It all comes out of the same factory in China somewhere, and none of us really know what the hell is going on over on that end of the production cycle.
  
  It has become a crapshoot, plain and simple.
  
  Used to be, more expensive, "quality" computers could be expected to last longer, but no more.
  
  They're all using the same components from the same vendors, and if that's not enough, the batch-to-batch variabilities and imponderables are now completely impossible to keep effective or meaningful track of anymore.
  
  And what once was a clear pattern of "quality" goods giving a nice return on investment, has now become random noise.
  
  Nowadays any of it can fail for any reason at any time. May as well get the cheap stuff and try to cut your losses up front.
  
  --
  Is it fascism yet?
30. Re: I can assure you... by omnichad · 2012-11-27 02:41 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  All of them - they just aren't all targeted. A lot of browser exploit malware runs in user mode. You don't have to have root to join a botnet, you only need that to hide the malware.
31. Re:I can assure you... by danbuter · 2012-11-27 02:44 · Score: 2
  
  Good point. I have an nVidia 550 GTX, and I installed it at the same time as SWTOR. I wonder if that's the issue?
32. Re:I can assure you... by VanGarrett · 2012-11-27 03:01 · Score: 2
  
  That's a problem with Adobe's support for Flash in Ubuntu, not specifically a problem with Ubuntu, itself. Were Ubuntu the popular OS instead of Windows, likely you'd see the problem in Windows but not Ubuntu.
  
  --
  Learning about brewing beer, by brewing beer.
33. Re: I can assure you... by westlake · 2012-11-27 03:17 · Score: 2
  
  More like symantec/McAfee/Avira take away. Windows on it's own is fine. But combined with antivirus software, it's crap.Worse, you can't leave windows box without antivirus, so you're screwed
  Or maybe the geek sees only what he wants to see.
  
  Previous versions of Windows Defender have been strictly anti-spyware, while Microsoft offered a separate, standalone tool for broader antimalware protection called Security Essentials. In Windows 8, the two are merged together so Windows Defender is actually a more comprehensive antimalware tool.
  Windows Defender is part of Windows 8, and it's enabled by default so you get protection right out of the box.
  With Windows 8, Microsoft takes the SmartScreen protection --- which has been a very effective tool for guarding against malicious downloads when using Internet Explorer --- and extends it to the entire operating system. Now, SmartScreen will warn and protect you even if you're using an alternate browser, such as Firefox or Chrome, or just downloading a file across the network.
  
  Windows 8 raises the bar for PC security
  MSE has a reputation for being light weight and effective.
  It is also perfectly clear from even this brief overview that the security analyst looking at the mass market PC does not view UEFI, secure boot, and the app store through the same prism as the geek.
34. Re:I can assure you... by mcgrew · 2012-11-27 03:39 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I have a BSOD under W7 every other update on my main home machine, i.e. twice a month or so. Must be a driver of some sort, but still inexcusable. The machine runs perfectly fine with linux
  You probably have a piece of flaky hardware; Windows is NOT tolerant of flaky hardware. I've had two machines running dual-boot where Linux ran flawlessly but Windows bluescreened, one had a flaky power supply which eventually went out completely, the other was a bad mobo that I noticed some expoded capacitors on. It could be something as simple as a tiny bit of corrosion on a pin.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
35. Re:I can assure you... by chmod+a+x+mojo · 2012-11-27 03:47 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah, because Office can't save files to the .odt / POT / .rtf / PDF or many other formats...... oh wait, yeah it can. You can even set the default save format as .odt.
  But there isn't anything out there that can read / edit my .doc / .docx files.... oh wait, libre / open office can.
  But but but there isn't anything out there that can WRITE .doc / .docx files.... oh wait, damn it, open / libre office does that too.
  Open / Libre office does 98-100% of what MS Office can do, is cross platform, and is free.
  
  --
  To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
36. Re:I can assure you... by denobug · 2012-11-27 03:48 · Score: 2
  
  Bluescreens still happen... My work HP laptop running Windows 7 could be relied upon to provide a couple each hour it was running a skype conference. Sound driver, I believe.
  I'm sorry to hear this. My latest HP laptop running Windows XP (corporate build, sorry) manage to be stable after daily stand-by (not shutting down like I suppose to do) for quite awhile (a few months). Every once awhile I shutdown and reboot, but then again, I think I am suppose to do shutdown, I just don't care to. Knock on wood this will be all right for a while. I think it has more to do with the quality of the hardware than the OS itself, unfortunately. So MS is really not to be blamed.
37. Re:I can assure you... by heefeneet · 2012-11-27 03:50 · Score: 2
  
  If you think SecureBoot is a crime, then you're a fool. SecureBoot is a way to solve one particular class of security attacks -- boot sector malware. And if you understood the specs, you would understand that it is all under the user's control. Linux is *not* shut out of SecureBoot; you would love to believe this is some sort of conspiracy to kill Linux, but it simply isn't. And if you think a person who is going to *install* Linux is too stupid to boot to BIOS and turn off one option, then you really have contempt for everyone but Linux kernel committers.
  If you think that BIOS option will exist once SecureBoot is a de-facto standard, you are a fool or you havent paid attention to how Microsoft has behaved for the past 20 years. Microsoft already bans that option on ARM systems that run Win RT. They will ban it on x86 too.
38. Re:I can assure you... by kelemvor4 · 2012-11-27 03:57 · Score: 2
  
  At that price, toss it a year from now
  It'll be a race to the bottom for Win8 PC prices now. That's the only way they'll get them off the shelves.
  Windows 8 sales flounder as critics pan clumsy interface
  Windows 8 sales in Australia and overseas are below expectations, with one US expert describing its user interface as "a monster that terrorises poor office workers and strangles their productivity".
  http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/windows-8-sales-flounder-as-critics-pan-clumsy-interface-20121126-2a2d0.html
  I recently upgraded from 7 and have to agree that the new UI is clunky. Fortunately there's a plethora of third party UI enhancements to make things work like win7. The biggest benefit to win8 as far as I can tell is that it runs much faster than win7 on lower end hardware (read: computers with 8GB or less RAM). The fact that it runs better on lower end hardware makes it a good choice for these cheap laptops.
39. Re:I can assure you... by mystikkman · 2012-11-27 04:25 · Score: 2
  
  Windows 8 is the definition of bloated. It adds a ton of new features that make tablet use more appealing, but most people aren't running it on a tablet. Thus, you are carrying around all of this tablet crap when all you want to do is use your desktop/laptop.
  Can you quantify the effect of this so called bloat in Windows 8 in an objective or reproducible way compared to Windows 7?
  All the benchmarks and real life usage I have seen show Windows 8 to boot faster and be as fast as Windows 7 at worst. How is that more bloated?
40. Re:I can assure you... by ctime · 2012-11-27 04:28 · Score: 2
  
  I've had more blue screens with Windows 7 then any other Windows OS. Finally started replacing hardware and ran memtest86 for a week and found 1, ONE, memory fault in millions and millions of operations. Replaced the memory (corsair brand to start with and bought another pair) and have had zero issues since. The reality of computing today is that any bluescreen/grey screen/kernel panic is largely irrespective of operating system, it's nearly always a subtle hardware issue. Which, much to the shagrin of microsoft, means alot of finger pointing. Apple people (like myself) just take our equipment into the Apple store and say "fix it" and they do (with Applecare, without a fee). Microsoft doesn't have that luxury and gets a black eye every time there is a bluescreen (which is also why they have gone to great lengths to certify vendors and hardware since the days of yesteryear). Microsoft has great products, especially in the office environment (I can't function without Office). Self-described Apple person here, I still use Windows 7 often and tried the MS Surface, looks alright, but I like my ipad mini better. I will concede the Maps on surface/windows8 are WAY better, but that is a given.
41. Re:I can assure you... by mystikkman · 2012-11-27 04:33 · Score: 2
  
  First, the signature live of PCs are not at a $100 premium. That's the cost if you take your PC that you bought somewhere else to them for cleaning up.
  Second, Windows 8 does not "come with so much crapware". Some OEM PCs do. For example, Vizio machines have zero crapware and so does any PC that is sold at the Microsoft Stores. So, you are making this stuff up.
  Perhaps you should share your VM's configuration or check out if there are updates to your VM software. There might be something wrong with the hardware emulation. I've been running Windows 8 and previews from a year on my 6 year old HTPC and it has 100% uptime except for reboots for updates. Anyway, my point stands, that bluescreens were much more of a problem in XP/ME/Windows 98 than now and almost all are because of things like bad hardware/RAM/drivers etc.
42. Re:I can assure you... by hairyfeet · 2012-11-27 04:35 · Score: 2
  
  You got Win 7 to run on an ARM tablet? Yeah, I think maybe you got one of those "chinamart specials" running an android with a Windows skin, because according to the website of the company that makes it its running a TI OMAP quad, I don't think Win 7 ever supported ARM.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
43. Re:I can assure you... by bondsbw · 2012-11-27 04:37 · Score: 2
  
  Thank you for paying attention!
  See, I can't kill the processes. I can't even get to a term or lxtask to initiate the kill.
  Sure, I've had Windows get bogged down by running 100+ user processes with Flash and all kinds of crap. But at least the task manager will pop up within a reasonable time of being invoked, and allow me to get my system back to a stable state. I can't say the same about Linux (and this issue isn't the first).
  Microsoft is evil, sure. But they produce some damn good software and have a host of the world's finest developers. To claim otherwise is moronic.
  
  --
  All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
44. Re:I can assure you... by CastrTroy · 2012-11-27 04:49 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  That's not Microsoft's fault. It's the fault of HP, Acer, Lenovo and others who install all the crapware before selling you a machine. If you buy the parts from a place like Tigerdirect/ NewEgg, and install a fresh copy of Windows 7/8 on it, then there is no crapware. What I actually did with my last Windows 7 laptop was format the hard drive as soon as I got it and reinstalled from a disk I had got from a buddy of mine. With Windows 7, there was no special OEM only keys that didn't work with regular install disks. Although I was at BestBuy a few weeks ago and the sales person offered a $100 service that would do exactly that. Wipe the hard drive clean, and install just windows, along with the drivers, but without all the bloatware. So, I agree this is a real problem, but the blame shouldn't be put on Microsoft. If MS tried to put pressure on them to stop doing that, they would probably have another antitrust suit on their hands.
  
  --
  
  Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
45. Re:I can assure you... by Applekid · 2012-11-27 04:55 · Score: 2
  
  Also, they discontinued that product. To complete the cycle for you.
  Are you including that in your definition of good software?
  Just curious, what is your definition of good software? Can you provide an example? Everyone is going to have a different opinion on what is "good".
  Some of their best software, in my opinion, is the stuff you don't necessarily know is there. The NTFS code base is pretty impressive, and interestingly enough, almost always under-utilized by Windows by having the feature set ahead of the curve (features like alternative data streams, sparse files, and HSM are some of my favorites).
  
  --
  More Twoson than Cupertino
46. Re:I can assure you... by Richy_T · 2012-11-27 05:42 · Score: 3
  
  Except if you're Microsoft, people innovate for you then you bring out your own version (in some cases, actually stealing the innovator's code) and put the innovator out of business.
  To be fair to Microsoft though, sometimes it seems that people just don't learn. I'm looking at you, Nokia.
47. Re:I can assure you... by jellomizer · 2012-11-27 06:00 · Score: 2
  
  Exactly Microsoft success was in cheap hardware.
  They Made a contract to IBM to sell their OS on other hardware. Hence the IBM Compatible PC's that came out that were cheaper than the IBM systems.
  Being you now have a choice of many brands of computer that can run the same software you a larger market that was more appealing developers... So there is more software being made for your platform. Increasing the desire for hardware manufacturers to make hardware for the OS that runs all the software.
  Microsoft got into this cycle at the right time.
  While there is popularity for the mobile OS's Android, iOS, even Windows 8 RT. There is still a need for a computer that can run software. (PC or Laptop) Windows 8 is trying to bridge that gap, trying to get into the market cycle of expansion again.
  Windows 8 Metro Apps run on PC's and Mobile Devices more software will be made in Metro mode, the more software the more interest in hardware to make new devices that run Windows 8....
  Is Windows the Best product out there... Probably not, it isn't that bad though, it is good enough for most peoples needs and once they get past the OMG IT IS DIFFERENT scare and learn the system, they will probably continue on.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
48. Re:I can assure you... by MightyYar · 2012-11-27 06:26 · Score: 2
  
  Did you miss the superfluous nipple that is Metro? It's like two whole user interfaces stapled together, and neither one has any idea what the other is up to. The boot time is nice, but I'll take a few extra seconds of boot time of 7 over the accumulated lost productivity of 8.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I really hope.... by metalmaster · 2012-11-26 22:18 · Score: 2

I haven't played with Windows 8 out of the box, but I really hope there aren't first boot tutorials that showcase touch capabilities
1. Re:I really hope.... by mdsharpe · 2012-11-26 22:39 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  The first boot tutorial shows mouse gestures or touch gestures or both, depending on the machine's capabilities.
2. Re:I really hope.... by rikkards · 2012-11-26 22:43 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  There isn't (well not a normal desktop). There is a tutorial about Metro when you first log in.
  I was hugely skeptical about 8 and installed it on a spare machine the wife will be using. I have probably put about 5 hours in of just playing around and to be honest it is surprisingly easy to get used to and not bad to work with. The Windows key is definitely your friend. I was thinking you would need touch as well before but it works fine without. There is still a couple areas where I question but I wouldn't necessarily reimage a machine back to 7 if it had 8 at this point.
3. Re:I really hope.... by Balthisar · 2012-11-26 22:43 · Score: 2
  
  In installed Windows 8 on three machines this past weekend. There's no tutorial, but while it's finishing its install there are instructions that tell you to move the mouse to any of the four corners of the screen. In all three cases, it seemed to know it was running on a non-touch device.
  
  --
  --Jim (me)
4. Re:I really hope.... by mr_gorkajuice · 2012-11-26 23:07 · Score: 2
  
  Why not?
5. Re:I really hope.... by Balthisar · 2012-11-26 23:21 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Two were HTPC front-ends for Plex (a Zotac MAG and a Zotac ZBox). Win8 is reportedly less resource hungry than Win7, so on those little Atom nettops, it seemed like a good way to get a performance boost. Although given that all they do is run Plex, performance wasn't really an issue anyway. Chalk these up to "new toy," then. (No Windows key over VNC kind of sucks, though.)
  The third was a VM install, which I mostly need for EveMon, OneNote, and Access (no Mac versions). Given my use, Win8 isn't as bad as a lot of other people seem to indicate; it doesn't take too long to get used to. I've always been a keyboard shortcutter anyway, and the stupid menus are only stupid if you have to use a mouse. I miss alt-v-d in the "File Explorer" (né "Windows Explorer") though.
  
  --
  --Jim (me)
6. Re:I really hope.... by kannibal_klown · 2012-11-27 01:56 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It's nowhere near as bad as the many reviews make it out to be.
  Yes, it has its issues and I don't agree with everything they did. And it's obvious they're trying to bring Tablet and PC together.
  But I applaud trying something "different" Face it, the UI design for Windows hasn't changed much since the 3.1 days (or I perhaps the 95 days). Even OSX has had pretty much the same UI since it was released, and has a LOT in common with its old System X days.
  And Windows 8 is actually fairly nice, ONCE you get used to it. That's the problem: you're getting used to something that's different that what you've known for the last 20+ years. The various reviews use previous OS's as a template to say "THIS is good design, and here's why" when really they're just stating UX concepts that were founded AROUND the interfaces that were popular and long-living.
  The only real annoying things to me are:
  - Shutting Down / Rebooting is insanely stupid. Like 8 mouse clicks.
  - The 3rd party metro apps go over-board with the scrolling text. To the point that you can't tell what a lot of those 3rd party "tiles" actually are. Most of the ones that come with Windows 8 are fine though: the title of the app or an icon is on the tile so you know what's what.
  Will it last long? Probably not, enough people will not like getting used to it that I'm sure Microsoft will have to back-peddle in Windows 9 to a more classic UI.
Maybe by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-26 22:20 · Score: 5, Insightful

People aren't buying "Windows 8" PCs, they are buying "cheap" PCs that, as an amazing coincidence, come preinstalled with the latest version of Windows (which is... Windows 8)
What's the point of this article, and why the comparison with Apple?
1. Re:Maybe by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-26 22:26 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  What's the point of 99% of the complete shit that theodp submits?
2. Re:Maybe by captainpanic · 2012-11-26 22:49 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I did just that: bought a cheap laptop which had windows. Then I created a bootable linux mint usb, and installed it. It runs like a charm. :)
  So, my purchase was just the PC, and definitely not windows 8.
  I have to say that Microsoft have a pretty sweet deal that they get paid for that. I would have bought the laptop if it came pre-installed with DOS 5.0 too - as I would have installed Linux anyway. It seems that the only way not to pay for windows is when you build your own desktop computer.
Boot from usb. by ipquickly · 2012-11-26 22:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

They work fine, once you put an operating system on them.
1. Re:Boot from usb. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-26 23:52 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Put the chair down.
Re:Cheap windows 8... by serviscope_minor · 2012-11-26 22:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

A turd is a turd, I wouldnt touch it even for free. Think about TCO and ROI. I used my Mac for more than a year at my job until they actually bought one "for me".
Well yeah, but the underlying hardware might be decent enough. If that's the case then you can put Linux have the best of both worlds: cheap hardware and an excellent OS.

--
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Windows 8 is a fail by ShakaUVM · 2012-11-26 23:03 · Score: 5, Interesting

Earlier today, the entire chess club surrounded one of these new $250 Windows 8 machines. They were all poking at the screen, but while it was changing colors on them, it wasn't responding. (Guess what guys? That's not a touchscreen. Those colors are what you get when you poke a normal LCD display.) They were convinced that all Windows 8 machines had touchscreens, though, and so they never used the touchpad.
And then they tried shutting it down. I was mocking them for a while, as an entire chess club couldn't figure it out, so then they passed it to me and I couldn't figure it out either. Turns out the option to shut it down is hidden behind an invisible menu, hidden behind two other submenus unrelated to shutting things down.
We eventually had to look it up online, as I expect many people will have to do.
It was an interesting case study though, in how fucked up Microsoft made the Metro UI.
1. Re:Windows 8 is a fail by wisty · 2012-11-26 23:11 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  It's alike an OSX 10.3 (or later) Mac - you don't have to shut it down. Just let it sleep. It'll run rock solid for months. A restart is an advanced trouble-shooting technique.
2. Re:Windows 8 is a fail by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-27 00:07 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  It's alike an OSX 10.3 (or later) Mac - you don't have to shut it down. Just let it sleep. It'll run rock solid for months. A restart is an advanced trouble-shooting technique.
  That's nice but it sounds as if he wanted to shut it down. That doesn't seem like an extravagant desire, even if he doesn't "have to".
3. Re:Windows 8 is a fail by whisper_jeff · 2012-11-27 00:28 · Score: 2
  
  The difference is, on a Mac, you can still easily find the "Shutdown" menu option, should you want to. You don't need it all that often, but it's easy to find.
4. Re:Windows 8 is a fail by phayes · 2012-11-27 00:31 · Score: 2
  
  Yes, sleeping a laptop/tablet is normally sufficient.
  They have pretty much stopped trying to perpetuate the lame excuse that things without an active radio are dangerous to the airplane's electronics. after all, pilots are now using iPads in the cockpit to access technical documentation during all regimes of flight.
  The truly justifiable reasons for putting away these devices & unplugging ipods & whatnot is so that:
  A: You are not distracted from any orders given by cabin personnel during the most potentially dangerous parts of a flight
  B: Objects big enough to become dangerous flying objects are stowed.
  Calling out to an attendant that your laptop isn't actually off will usually be ignored but some will still ask you to turn it off. If you don't actively point it out they wont bother you.
  
  --
  Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
5. Re:Windows 8 is a fail by wvmarle · 2012-11-27 03:18 · Score: 2
  
  The power button on the device itself didn't do the job?
Re:Cheap windows 8... by ruir · 2012-11-26 23:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

If it worth the effort dealing with hardware, UEFI, lack of support for Linux, hacking and the overall inconsistency (yet), of the several Linux desktops /: I use and hack Linux servers/and in virtual infra-structures (aka cloud for PHBs), but cant bother to have Linux for my desktop. Time is money.
Cheap? by symbolset · 2012-11-26 23:15 · Score: 4, Informative

If they wanted a cheap netbook to put Linux on, Google is selling Acer's Intel-based dual-core 64bit VT-enabled chromebook with 2GB RAM and a 320GB HDD for $200.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
My nine year old P4 by rvw · 2012-11-26 23:19 · Score: 3, Interesting

it was a cheap buy and they will be sorely disappointed when it runs like crap a year from now.
I know several people who bought very cheap netbooks and were very happy with them for a number of years. Heck, I still use my ageing eee 900 daily.
Cheap doesn't mean bad or badly built. Not everyone needs a 64 processor monster to surf the web.
At home I have a nine year old Dell P4 that was average at the time. It runs Ubuntu 12.04 now, serves as backup host and for my scanning project, batch scanning my slide collection. Browsing the internet is not a problem. Yes it's a lot slower, but still acceptable. Converting a 500 MB DNG image to JPEG takes 5 minutes, but who cares if it's a batch job. I added 3GB RAM and a new videocard four years ago, and just added a 4TB drive. If necessary I can start Virtualbox with XP and run Photoshop and Illustrator CS4 inside. For not too extreme images, it's OK, although that can be sluggish.
1. Re:My nine year old P4 by hairyfeet · 2012-11-27 00:56 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Heck that"s nothing, here at the shop I'm typing this on a circa 2004 Sempron 1.8Ghz I use as a nettop, it has a dual boot XP/7 and both run just fine, it has 2Gb of RAM which maxes out the board but other than that its pretty much stock. I'm thinking about trying to slap a mobile Athlon in here next week (just to see if I can, supposedly a lot of these socket 754s could take the mobile chips) but it does everything you'd expect a nettop to do, surfs, downloads, hell it'll even play SD flash videos smooth.
  So while i agree one can do just fine on an older machine i just have to ask...a P4? Really? You DO know those were power hogs, right? Maybe you should look into swapping that board for one of those cheap AMD E350 boards, it idles at around 6w, maxes out less than 20w and with a dual core APU you'd get better performance and not be wasting power and cooling on the piggie P4. I'm all for saving old gear from the scrapheap but there is a reason why i sell all the P4 and Pentium D systems that comes through my door while keeping the AMD, the difference in power and heat really isn't funny.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Cheap windows 8... by r1348 · 2012-11-26 23:22 · Score: 4, Informative

That's because Atoms use a licenced PowerVR graphic core from Imagination Technology that provided a binary-only linux driver, and it sucked hard.
Later kernels have the gma500 driver that provides at least basic functionality on those turds.
Bought a $298 Gateway A8. Windows 8 lasted 15mins by zonyln · 2012-11-26 23:30 · Score: 2

I bought a $298 Gateway nV series with Windows 8 preinstalled. I played with it painfully for 15 minutes then put Ubuntu 12.10 (KDE) on it. I was amazed to see all of the bloatware still there in tile form. The charm interface is incredibly painful with a touchpad and even more so cause it was a Gateway touchpad which is painful to use in any regular desktop OS.
Re:Cheap windows 8... by serviscope_minor · 2012-11-26 23:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

, but cant bother to have Linux for my desktop. Time is money.
When it comes to installing all the programs I need, keeping security up to date, making sure all the tools run well together, making sure my development environment has access to the libraries I need etc, I can't be bothered with anything but Linux for the desktop. Time is money.
and the overall inconsistency (yet), of the several Linux desktops /
Overall inconsistency? Surely you jest? My window manager config is not much changed from the late 90's. I've not had to adapt to new and more poorly functioning (I've tried, but always revert) desktop environment in a decade and a half.
Linux is the only system that has provided any degree consistency over all these years. Heck, the Window decorations bear much more similarity to pre Window-95 than to 95 and after.
Oh and because of the flexibility of X11, I can configure my window manager to beat poorly behaving applications into submission so thay they behave consistently with the rest of the system. This is some not generally possible on the less good operating systems: if an application programmer thinks they know better you have to put up with their poor decisions. (And now the Wayland folks are trying to bring that to Linux. But that's another rant.)
I haven't even had to give up compositing support. FVWM works side by side with any of the xcompmgr derivatives. I played with drop shadows and transparency and animations a bit for fun, then disabled them because I found they intefere with work.
So actually, if you look at it from another point of view, Linux, or specifically X11, offers a far more consistent user interface than the other operating systems.
Time is money.
Yes and no. I use Linux for two reasons. Firstly it's much more efficient. Secondly it's much, much more pleasant to use. I avoid jobs where I have to use Windows for the same reason I avoid jobs which involve being repeatedly jabbed with pointy sticks. Sure the jobs might pay well, but why do something I disklike?
Time is more than money. You only get time once.

--
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Great Value by tuppe666 · 2012-11-26 23:39 · Score: 4, Interesting

If they wanted a cheap netbook to put Linux on, Google is selling Acer's Intel-based dual-core 64bit VT-enabled chromebook with 2GB RAM and a 320GB HDD for $200.
I noticed this too. They do seem incredibly good value. I have no idea why Google are not pushing them more. The deal is also unfortunately US centric. I did notice that Google is planning on launching a touchscreen version, which hopefully would bring me Ubuntu with Androids in a virtual machine.
Let's nip this one in the bud by Flipao · 2012-11-26 23:40 · Score: 5, Informative

The Laptop Hunters campaign is almost 4 years old, and completely irrelevant in this day and age when we're talking about perception of value, it costs just over $300 to buy into Apple's ecosystem and even less to buy into Google's..

I find it interesting that this tidbit was glossed over.

However, the scene wasn’t so rosy for Microsoft at the Mall of America in Minneapolis, where analyst Gene Munster of Piper Jaffray and team observed and tabulated traffic and sales at Microsoft and Apple stores. Microsoft saw 47 percent less foot traffic than the Apple Store did, and far fewer sales — 3.5 items per hour, compared with 17.2 items per hour at the Apple Store, as reported by Fortune’s Philip Elmer-Dewitt. Most of the items purchased from the Microsoft Store were Xbox 360 games. During the two hours that the Piper Jaffray team observed the Microsoft Store, they didn’t see any Microsoft Surface tablets being purchased.
A comment on Geekwire? by mystikkman · 2012-11-26 23:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

WTF? Slashdot is referencing a comment on Geekwire as a basis for people installing Linux? How low can it go? Idiot submitters like theodp and symbolset are turning Slashdot into a anti-Microsoft tabloid rather than any place for serious discussion. Not surprising that people with half a brain are ditching Slashdot in droves in disgust.
Re:Cheap windows 8... by sosume · 2012-11-26 23:44 · Score: 3, Funny

Same for me. I've had to use my own Porsche for months on the job now, my boss just refuses to buy me a decent car! I just won't touch that Prius they bought me, a turd is a turd and I wouldn't feel safe driving it. SO I have requested all employees to recieve only Porsche company cars from now on, that will increase speed, efficiency and therefore save a lot of money.
Re:I will pay by mystikkman · 2012-11-26 23:55 · Score: 2

I am pretty sure making a few tens of thousands of machines(lets be real about demand for such a device) with the all the above features will cost much much more than the $500+ per each machine you're offering.
Simple. Cheap Christmas shopping. by mattr · 2012-11-27 00:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

SImple. They were buying what they thought was a great deal and the cheapest computer around, as this is the only computer christmas present they could buy while thinking it is a real computer.
Re:Cheap windows 8... by Rufty · 2012-11-27 00:21 · Score: 2

Just spent a weekend linuxing one of these - a Samsung NC110p with (I think) GMA3600. Linux Mint 13, after updates and reboots, now goes quite nicely. Uses the cedarview packages, fwiw.

--
Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
Re:Cheap windows 8... by LordLimecat · 2012-11-27 00:24 · Score: 2

I love seeing posts like these where someone explains how great, easy, and trouble free their custom config of Linux is, but not where said distro can be downloaded on ISO.
Yes, I know Linux is wonderful if you spend 50 hours getting everything just right (I had to do it many times in the course of upgrading through the Ubuntu line), I just dont have that kind of time anymore.
Re:Bought a $298 Gateway A8. Windows 8 lasted 15mi by Sepodati · 2012-11-27 00:43 · Score: 2

Moving the cursor to a corner of the screen is incredibly painful?
Re:Run 98SE on that computer. by mystikkman · 2012-11-27 00:50 · Score: 4, Informative

>7 slowed down on the first SP.
Does anyone have any objective benchmark or reference for this? This is not true at all on the 4 machines I used daily (Work PC/Home Desktop/Laptop/HTPC). The last OS that slowed down with more patches and usage was XP.
Also, XP didn't start off fast for me. It was slower than ME on the machines at the time. Of course, Vista was much more bloated in the beginning though.
Inexpensive Laptop as a secondary PC = GREAT BUY by DaCaptn19 · 2012-11-27 00:52 · Score: 2

I believe there are people that would just like an up to date laptop as a secondary pc and this inexpensive one will work great because at that price it really does not matter.
Re:Run 98SE on that computer. by Chrisq · 2012-11-27 00:54 · Score: 2

Run Linux on it.
It'll be faster.
I may grant that it's not as bad as Vista, but XP started off fast and as it was patched to less than a virus laden whore it got bigger and slower.
Vista started off big and slow.
7 slowed down on the first SP.
8 will do the same.
I find Linux is faster, but I am not sure that this isn't just because it doesn't need antivirus rather than being faster in itself.
Re:Cheap windows 8... by serviscope_minor · 2012-11-27 01:07 · Score: 2

I love seeing posts like these where someone explains how great, easy, and trouble free their custom config of Linux is, but not where said distro can be downloaded on ISO.
Why? Custom configs can be applied to basically any distro. Window management schemes are elmost entirely distro independent. That's one of the joys of unix/Linux .
I currently use the same FVWM setup on Arch and Ubuntu. I've also used an older version (sometimes much older, since this goes back some way) on OSX, Cygwin/Windows, OpenBSD, Solaris and AIX, not to mention various flavours of Linux (Arch, Ububntu, Suse, Redhat, and probably a few others on the way).
I can't point you to my config file because it's not online anywhere, and you almost certainly wouldn't like it anyway.
Yes, I know Linux is wonderful if you spend 50 hours getting everything just right
There are two points:
1. A new machine is easy to set up. The install takes however long these things do these days. Customizing is a question of copying my .bashrc, .bash_login, .fvwm2rc, .vimrc, .Xdefaults and .Xmodmap files, which takes around a minute. Oh and I have to generally apt-get install or pacman -S or zypper a few packages, taking perhaps another few minutes. Then get noscript and flashblock for firefox.
The total setup time is well under an hour including the base install, and a significant fraction can't be avoided even if I "didn't have time" because I can't do my job without (e.g.) a compiler.
2. Who cares? If you lost 20 minutes per day to a sub optimal configuration, those 50 hours are paid back in well under a year. Though given that it takes less time to set up Linux than anything else, the payback time is strongly negative.
I just dont have that kind of time anymore.
Interesting, so you don't have the time to work efficiently any more? I mean I know "work smarter not harder" is a bit of a cliche these days, but you might wish to consider it.
It's funny that computer people have this odd attitude. I can't imagine a carpenter mashing away with a blunt or inadequate saw claiming that he doesn't have time to sharpen the tools, even though payback would be measured in hours.
Or a semi driver hauling a semi trailer along at 5 mph using a compact car in first gear. No, I don't have time to go out and get a tractor because it's already taking me too long to get where I need to go, and I have lost too much time already to having the clutch replaced. I just don't have time to get a tractor.

--
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Re:So who buys the MS Surface? by gfxguy · 2012-11-27 01:47 · Score: 2

Yes... Apple has the market cornered for people with money to burn on gadgets, but I take exception to the belief that a $250 laptop that has a faster multi-core cpu, more memory, and more disk space than the $800 laptop I bought in 2006 (and still use) is not a "real" laptop. Yes, they were selling netbooks cheap, too - but you could get a "real" laptop for that price, too (which made getting a netbook pointless, IMO... in recent years, netbooks have gotten bigger and more expensive while low-end laptops became a much better deal).
I don't know what's wrong with Slashdotter's that they can't see the vast majority of these people just want an affordable working computer. They don't need to play the latest games or run their video editing software - they need to surf the net, get email, and have something their kids can do their homework on (cutting and pasting from wikipedia, from my observations). These cheap laptops are perfect for that, and I don't get why you belittle the often low-income families who couldn't afford something better. I live in a relatively nice area and there are still a lot of student's in my kid's schools who don't have computers at home. Yes, it's true that some idiots with more disposable income than brains waited on lines for days to save a couple hundred bucks on something they likely didn't need (but hey, it was a great price!), but a lot of those people wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise.
In fact, I think most people over-buy. If you factor out games and video editing, none of these cheap computers are any worse than the most expensive ones for what average users are actually using them for.

--
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Re:Run 98SE on that computer. by IndustrialComplex · 2012-11-27 02:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

Caveat: I'm a 99% windows user with just about enough unix experience to traverse a directory structure.
I'm not sure how you quantify faster, there are a lot of things which mean 'faster' to me:
From the initiation of the OS boot process to when my scripts start loading VHDs it takes about 15 seconds. (I use that as a benchmark because that's approximately where the system becomes responsive to a user on a clean install) I've not yet timed Ubuntu for booting, so I can't compare that directly (I don't think loading from the USB is a fair comparison since my OS is loading from RAID0 SSDs)
However, in terms of actual performance once the OS is up and running or installed on a machine... It doesn't seem nearly as fast. Certainly not the freaking Dash application search thing. The UI design on that is horrible. I find myself wondering if I actually clicked it, I assume yes because the rest of the screen dimmed, but I've been having nothing but trouble with it so I typically just launch everything from the terminal now.
I'll be installing Ubuntu directly to the machine later today, so I'll get a good comparison on boot times and a clean install, but in terms of pure 'faster' performance from the user perspective, not based on what I've seen. Anecdotal evidence, but that's all that matters to me because I don't care if it works better in theory or in general, I only care if it works better for me.
The thing is: I WANT to like linux. It's why I have a semi-annual install fest on my machines (which slowly migrate back to Windows over several months), but there is no way I can consider it 'faster' if the instant I run into an issue there isn't an intuitive way to correct the issue. That eats up my time, and that colors my perception of the speed of the system. Right now, Linux seems to be much like a F1 race car. Sure, when it goes, it goes fast, but in between those periods of speed are significant chunks of time where a team of experts is rebuilding, tuning, and prepping the system for it's next sprint.
I know this is probably pretty obvious, but I run into an issue with a machine that is running an ATI R300x video card. Unity does not play well with it. So right now I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with it, and reading the tech threads mentions things like "This issue is known, and may be worked on" Of course, these threads are 2-3 years old, so I wonder if I'm just missing the obvious fix/patch/update/setting which resolves the issue. I haven't found it yet, I haven't looked hard though, but it's already taken up more time than I care to invest when I KNOW I could just install XP and have the system running well in 90 minutes. I'll probably toss some more time into it this weekend, but in the meantime that system will just be my hobby/learning system and that's a big issue for the perception of linux. Again, I bet it will be fast... after it's running (which may just involve me buying a whole new piece of hardware)
Heck, I wanted to install a python environment/stack (enthought), and it took me a good bit of time to just get it to install (chmod to make it executable, proper syntax to run the .sh file) Then I had to double check the appropriate path since that isn't intuitive to me yet (do I put it in /bin? Or somewhere in home?) So I install it, and then I'm told to make sure my PATH is updated... do I do that in .profile, .bashrc, somewhere else? How do I make I make that stick? Once I do it, I'll know it but...
Remember I'm a newbie to this, and thus all of this tweaking around the backend just to get things to the point where they would be faster costs me time, and every minute I spend looking up arcane error messages, or wondering how the hell do I do..., is a minute that I'm thinking "I could be done already if I had just stuck with Windows"
So faster comes to mean a lot of different things, and the fact that a mail client or firefox loads up 0.3s faster than the windows equivalent doesn't mean much (to me).

--
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
Re:Run 98SE on that computer. by asylumx · 2012-11-27 03:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

Do you think that the GP having to uninstall and install various distros and try them out is going to make him feel like linux, as a whole, is somehow FASTER?
Re:Cheap windows 8... by nhat11 · 2012-11-27 04:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

See, this is exactly why linux/unix are annoying to setup. There's always some hack that needs to be done since I have a dozen different wireless adapters, video cards, etc, etc.
In point one serviscope_minor says:
"A new machine is easy to set up. The install takes however long these things do these days. Customizing is a question of copying my .bashrc, .bash_login, .fvwm2rc, .vimrc, .Xdefaults and .Xmodmap files, which takes around a minute."
No it does not take a "minute." I have no idea where those files are, what they do, how to open it, etc in a linux environment.
Personally I would learn to figure that out but the average user will not.
Wow by jon3k · 2012-11-27 04:28 · Score: 2

I cannot even fathom how shitty a $250 Windows 8 PC must be.
Comment Subject: by Richy_T · 2012-11-27 07:31 · Score: 2

I spent 3-4 hours and about $20 in parts this weekend getting a "cheap" Win7 laptop back into decent condition and it's still not quite right. Not worth the money. The worst issue seems to be the hinges but this one also had crappy heatsink design (requiring a full teardown and a shim). Keyboards and screen connectors also seem to be weak spots. These days I spend the extra money and buy something that will last. I'm liking the Thinkpads but there's other brands too (Dells Latitudes seemed to be pretty decent).