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Microsoft Surface Struggles to Ship A Million Units
zacharye writes "While some see potential in Microsoft's Surface tablet, most industry watchers appear to have written off the device at this point. Orders were reportedly cut in half following a slow launch, and Microsoft's debut slate has been hammered time and time again by reviewers and analysts. The latest to pile on is Boston-based brokerage firm Detwiler Fenton, which estimates that when all is said and done, Microsoft will have sold fewer than 1 million Surface tablets in the slate's debut quarter."
Still better than 25,000.
With the surface pro's battery life at an estimated 4 hours. We can expect that to fail as well.
That's not the party line, citizen.
To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
I think the actual biggest reason for this is people who wanted a tablet already got a different product from Samsung or Motorola or Apple and they're not going to spend all that money again just to switch. MS came into the game WAY too late.
Also we're at the verge of a netbook-caliber tablet crash where everyone realizes they all suck and stop buying them. They're too fragile, they don't have a DVD drive, they're harder to type on, the screen is tiny, they get dirty with fingerprints, they don't run 99% of software ever written, everything they do on it is designed to cost money, the browsers don't display pages correctly, the battery life is a lie, most don't have USB flash drive capabilities, they don't work with the majority of printers, and it's difficult to do meaningful work on them in any way shape or form. That's actually slightly more cons than netbooks and they went from boom to flop in approximately 2 years.
Sounds like the a tiny, caseless computer for hackers and wannabe hackers designed mostly by volunteers is going to outsell a flagship product from one of the most powerful companies in the world.
Microsoft has no clue what users actually want, film at 11.
When is Microsoft going to learn to make a truly consumer-oriented device other than the XBox? Not with support for Office (that takes up most of your space apparently), not with support for Outlook, but to do the things people are using other tablets for.
Every time they release a product, the marketing is so heavily geared to Office/Outlook/Exchange I have to wonder if Microsoft is aware of the fact that loads of people use computers for things that don't involve their business applications.
If your marketing is focused on how I can do spreadsheets and connect to my corporate Exchange server, then you have no idea of what it is I'd be looking to use this kind of device for. Because I don't want either of those features.
It just always seems Microsoft is so focused on their business tools, that the result is too much focus on that. And it always seems like they launch a product after someone else has been successful with it, and then miss some of the attributes of the other product which make it successful in the first place.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
at this point it may not matter. microsoft may already be mortally wounded like Motorola was a couple of years ago.
As much as I'd love to bash on Microsoft for a while, I must say that there seems to be some FUD floating around here. You have reviewers generally praising the hardware and the OS while at the same time advising readers to stay away because of the struggling App ecosystem. Good luck attracting developers that way.
Seems to me that MS could drop the price to make it a loss-leader and watch them fly off the the shelves, if they wanted.
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
Well, here's one bad review. Admittedly, it is 100% about the name of the tablet.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
As a refugee from HP, I have to say that I derive immense joy from the "at least they did better than HP" comment in this story. EXCELLENT! (And yes, I'm hugely into schadenfreude.) Now, I just have to wait a bit before I hit "preview" because it seems that any post that comes before all others is somehow considered inherently suspect, and gets modded down. (I suspect that if Einstein had posted E=MC^2 that way, it would have been modded "Troll," even if it were directly applicable to the topic being discussed.)
But yes...it does seem like this is the Zune all over again. Late to compete against a mature product that defines a market space, and by most accounts inferior to that main competitor...only the Zune was actually price-competitive if I recall correctly. At least with Windows Mobile, they've had multiple products to unsuccesfully compete against over the years...Palm, then Blackberry, then the iPhone.
Okay, it's been 5 minutes...someone MUST have posted SOMETHING by now...(hits 'Preview')
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
... that they're a late player in the tablet game and have had terrible experience with their smartphone OS.
Apple shifted two million in its first quarter.
Even the stupid playbook shifted a large number (shipped, not sold, half a million in Q1) and then its numbers went off a cliff.
I think the Q2 numbers will be more insightful.
Wearing pants should always be optional.
Most Honest reviews of the surface are actually pretty positive. I think the main problem is that it's $650 by the time you add the touch cover. And most of the reviews say you need the Type cover to get a really good experience, which is even more expensive. For the price you can get a decent ultrabook that runs all your old windows programs, and is about the same size. Only thing missing is touch, which although nice, isn't a must-have feature. Most people are probably awaiting the Surface Pro, if they are thinking of buying a surface at all, because then you can run all your old Windows Software. If you can't run your old software, you could just get an iPad or a Nexus 7/10.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I'm not about to buy a completely new product online without being able to see it firsthand and test it (especially from Microsoft, and especially when it's running a brand new OS with no service pack), and I'd never even heard of MS stores existing until the Surface was released (even though there's one in my city).
Seems like the failure was in marketing it, not in the product itself.
I can't seem to recall any *new* MS product in recent memory that was actually "successful" at launch. MS doesn't really care enough about that; they don't care if their new product loses millions and millions of dollars, for years even. Their strategy is to just endure it, because they have massive amounts of cash and can afford to lose it. Eventually their presence in a market will turn into some kind of growth, and even success. Kind of how it was with the Xbox. It's what they've been trying with Bing too, and then Windows Phone, and now Surface.
Part of me thinks this stratagy's effectiveness is starting to diminish though. The reason MS was able to afford throwing so much money at new products/services because their core businesses (Office and Windows) gave them effectively unlimited money to lose. But what happens when it's those core businesses that are under threat?
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
The fact that after so many years of backwards-compatible Windows versions they launched their first tablet device with a desktop environment that wouldn't run anything other than Office was a huge "wtf" to me. So now in the first few months of it's life Microsoft have polluted the Surface brand as the little tablet that couldn't. I thought the Pro might still stand a chance in the face of this until I read the 64Gb edition would cost $900 and have a 4hr battery life. Ultrabooks, despite being slightly larger, seem to be much more capable for the same price. I don't know what Microsoft was thinking. They p'd off their hardware partners to launch this?
Then you're not paying attention. Most of the reviews I've seen say the OS is fine and Metro/Modern works okay for a tablet, it can be frustrating to use without a touchscreen on a desktop. So while Win 8 will probably work on older hardware, it might be best to wait to get it when consumers can get hardware with touch.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
You can get a Nobel Peace prize for "not being George W Bush", but apparently people aren't standing in line to buy "not an iPad".
I picked up a firesale Touchpad. I use it pretty much every day. It still works fine, the wireless charger is awesome, and dual-booting Android on it gives access to a bunch of current apps.
It's not perfect, but for $100 it's been a really useful device.
I have seen only two different commercials for the Slate.
The first one, the dancing, clicking one I do not mind. New product, people are overjoyed, very clicky. The commercial is overplayed, but the commercial is effective as getting customers/prospects to go look at the tablet.
The second commercial bothers me, the little girl using a paint application to "create" multiple painting, dancing around the room while doing so. Is this ad supposed to encourage me to buy yet another toy that is not as capable as the real thing? Come on, give the kid a set of water colors, pencils, or oil-paints; let her learn to use actual tools to create art.
I think MS has created a new thing, something that is slotted between a tablet and a laptop, but they need to explain why and how this benefits the customer, not come up with lame-oh ads.
I have to admit that I haven't actually tried one out, but having looked at the specs and seeing the advertisements for it, I think MS has missed what made somethign like an iPad somewhat convenient. That is, there are no moving parts or pieces to carry around or break. On paper it seems like a good idea to have a built in stand, but at the sizes they are talking about a thin piece of plastic and a tiny hinge are inevitably going to snap off/break, and then what? Add to that a keyboard (haven't we already seen how these things are falling apart at the magnetic hinge?) and the potential for something at this scale to be easily broken, and people are going to be turned off sooner than later. Where the other tablets have it right, is that there are no moving parts externally (or internally) to come unhinged, snap, break, fall apart, or otherwise create an issue. Though I guess that is what MS has ultimately been successful at: creating a service market, and not a well functioning product.
No 4g wireless. Less space than a laptop. Lame.
In all seriousness, Microsoft is failing because they have been busy abandoning their core principles since Windows 7 was released. I'm fine with experimenting with new interfaces, but you have to leave options for people who are comfortable with your old UI paradigm or no one will bother to make the transition if you're not in the same yuppie fanboy market as Apple.
Here's my advice, Microsoft: release 8.1, offer a "classic" shell, and stop pretending to be something you're not. If you lose your enterprise clients, you're going to be the next BlackBerry. Stop putzing around with internal C-level paranoid delusions and get back to work helping businesses accomplish their computing tasks.
Surface has very limited geographic and retail distribution. It seems to me this is Microsoft's effort not to step on OEM partner shoes, who will be selling in Walmart, Best Buy, etc.
If you prefer a desktop UI on your desktop PC maybe it will be beneficial to the user experience in Windows 9 should the surface flop.
It doesn't help that they confused everybody with Win RT vs Win 8 as well as the fact that they told everybody that a better Surface (Pro) was coming a few months later.
firestream.net
fragile?
You are complaining that a hinge on the back of a piece of glass might snap, you might give thought to what happens when an tablet/iPad/Surface falls from a height of more than 4 feet.
Your comment is based on not actually seeing a Surface or using one for a few days. yeah, it may break, but lots of people use laptops every day without being paralysed by the risk of something breaking due to the moving parts.
Who cares?
The only review that matters in the end is what the market thinks. The market doesn't seem to be buying. Saying "the professional reviewers liked it!" is loser talk.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
at this point it may not matter. microsoft may already be mortally wounded like Motorola was a couple of years ago.
I don't love Microsoft, its tools, its "solutions", its idiotic advertising, or Squirts Ballmer, but you need to evaluate reality more accurately.
Microsoft is a large, rich, powerful company with a MONOPOLY. They have a pinhead for a Chief Executive Orificer and they are having difficulty finding new successes in a difficult economic climate. They are not alone. BUT... It would take catastrophic global circumstances on a scale yet unseen to wound Microsoft mortally.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
Hello new CEO...
Okay, the commercial isn't helping matters, as far as I can tell.
While the tablet part looks great, the rest looks like a binder cover, and anyone that's every had a binder knows it doesn't stay nice and new looking very long.
and worse, look at the keyboard. While it maybe better then typing on a screen, it looks like a toy keyboard.
Then when the commercial is cutting out, you can see all the fingerprints on the surface of Surface, that there is the best use of Truth in a commercial. Because that is what you will get, a smudged up dirty tablet screen.
that being said, as soon as I can get a $100ish 10" tablet so I can read comic books in it, I'm down. That is the only real use i have for a tablet, while I'm sure i can find other uses, it's the only reason I want one, and it's not enough of an need to spend much more then $100 for it.
Be seeing you...
Whatever dimwit argued that the Surface needed that "perception of value" should be fired, after being publicly humiliated and dressed like a duck while giving an apologetic speech on national TV. As a $249 loss leader distributed through Wal-Mart, it would have succeeded and at least gotten significant share while more expensive, un-lame versions with better displays, 4G, and so on. Microsoft can't compete on quality with Apple. What's left is either price, or a significant value add (e.g. free Verizon phone service for a year or free unlimited internet via some national hotspot company). Instead, they want.... more money. It's as if the effort was *intended* to fail.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
GP said:
I've yet to see a complaint about the slate tablets
So he was specifically talking about bad reviews of Surface and friends, not bad reviews of Win8 in general. Of course, all Win8 tablets have touch, and Metro there makes perfect sense.
At the same time, there are plenty bad reviews of Surface (specifically) around. It's relatively heavy and bulky for what it is.
The Surface commercial was an absolute joke, so I'm not surprised the product itself is rapidly becoming a flop. Dubstep, breakdancers, romantic old people, and crunk girl scouts don't make me want to buy a tablet. The director should have stuck to directing Justin Bieber's music videos. Even if you have to spend all day pandering to shrieking preteens, at least there's money in it.
...not backwards compatible with even current gen applications for Windows. The built in version of office isn't really fully baked yet by Microsoft's own admission. Not really properly supported for enterprise use yet. Surface Pro which will suck too, but at least have some measure of backward compatiblity and enterprise support will launch soon.
I can't for the life of me understand why its struggling.
Microsoft blew this one hard.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
I called this one right when they came out....http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3285997&cid=42159587
For the life of me I can't see what the fascination is with all these tablets. I got a cheap-o Touchpad when the fire sale was underway and all I ever use it for is watching movies on the plane. Mainly because it's got better battery life than my laptop and I don't run the risk of the guy in front of me leaning back and crushing my screen. My smartphone does all the mobile online stuff I need to do.
I was at the local Best Buy the other day and there is a big display of tablets..iPad, Galaxy, Fire and a Surface. Not a single person was looking at the Surface. Maybe the price scared them off, who knows. So I decide to check it out. Decent display, although not as good as the iPad or Nexus. Seemed responsive enough. Metro seemed kind of cool. But I doubt they sold a single Surface that day.
The market seems split between cheap tablets (Fire, Nook, Galaxy 7) and the iPad. Microsoft is trying to present the Surface as some sort of fusion between the tablet and the ultrabook. It has some nice features but they just don't have the cachet of Apple so they can't get away with selling it at that price. Then you have the lower end tablets selling for half the price, or less. The Surface just doesn't make the short list.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Anyone looking at Microsoft mobile solutions as a consumer product is looking at them wrong. These toys are meant to keep Microsoft relevant in the mobile business space. Write once, run Microsoft. Businesses don't need to hire ancillary dev teams to write their ancillary mobile apps they can utilize in-house talent and existing code bases. Even LOBs are going to be able to spill over into the mobile space since they won't be shackled to orange shield implementations that scare the CSOs. If businesses adopt Microsoft mobiles the hope is that consumers--used to their work devices--will find the familiarity attractive enough to stick with the brand.
Time will tell if the strategy pays off. The ability to use C#/XAML and avoid the costs and penalties of HTML5/JavaScript is a very attractive proposition for businesses.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
for a site with highly libertarian users who are all about personal privacy and internet freedom, it's weird how often you see slashdotters ripping on anonymous users *only* because they're posting anonymously.
- ac, lol
I've yet to see a complaint about the slate tablets, other than the app store for it not being matured.
While that may be true, I have also not seen any review that said the Microsoft tablet is superior to the iPad or Android offerings. The reviews usually sound like "the Surface is OK, but since there is no cost benefit, I'd get an iPad".
That is Microsoft's problem -- a me too product with no compelling advantage.
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Reviews don't really matter at this point, consumers have spoken and they don't want yet another tablet.
Microsoft knew this. They promised the Surface would be a "game changer" instead of just another tablet. But nobody bought that line, nor did they buy the device.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Also we're at the verge of a netbook-caliber tablet crash where everyone realizes they all suck and stop buying them.
You must have just woken up from cryo-sleep you were put into just before the launch of the iPad.
What did you get wrong?
They're too fragile
The iPad is not at all fragile compared to a laptop. Inherently anything without a hinge is more durable , the same goes for anything with spinning media (though laptops are more and more using SSD so that advantage has waned).
they don't have a DVD drive
Which bothers no-one because they simply rip or download DVD's onto them.
they're harder to type on
They are harder for YOU to type on. When you get used to the difference you can type just as rapidly and the tablets having larger screens means easy to hit keys.
For people like you that need a crutch keyboard cases exist for tablets, though those of us that can type will tend to snicker a bit at your inability to adapt when we see you using it.
the screen is tiny
So is any laptop really, that's not stopped the march of them taking over desktops.
And with all of the window clutter of desktop OS's taken away the screen size is really not that much smaller.
they get dirty with fingerprints
Sadly so do laptops. But in use the fingerprints do not obscure the screen on a tablet.
they don't run 99% of software ever written
Here is the hugest disconnect. I would argue that at this point the advantage has flipped to tablets in terms of ability to run NEW software. The most exciting software today will ship on tablets first, desktops second if at all.
everything they do on it is designed to cost money
Another big disconnect, with tablet software costing FAR less than desktop software.
the browsers don't display pages correctly
Science wants to study your pre-WeKit brain to see what the past looks like.
The hallmark of modern tablets is that they in fact display pages just as they should be.
the battery life is a lie
Why did you buy a non-Apple tablet if battery life was important to you? Apple's battery figures are accurate and much better than other tablets.
But here's the real kicker - any tablet still has way better battery life than just about any laptop!
most don't have USB flash drive capabilities
The internet, look into it.
they don't work with the majority of printers
They work with some and that's enough. Mostly people don't print much anymore.
and it's difficult to do meaningful work on them in any way shape or form.
Again, adapt or get out of the way for those of us that can. I've done a TON of meaningful work on tablets and smart phones. If you can't you need to retire from work.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Which is pretty much exactly why what the reviewers think doesn't matter.
That said, in this case Microsoft also has to fight against the self-inflicted wound that is PC Windows 8 being confusing and annoying for a very large chunk of their market. Those people are not going to be lining up to buy more Microsoft stuff when they could get something that has the perception of being easier instead (hello iPad!).
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
meanwhile buying extra sd cards for dirt cheap gives you 100x more storage capacity then some 64gb tablet.
The "hipster photographers" already have those SD cards because you need them for backup.
Meanwhile the same people are not using the tablet for storage so much as the ability to REVIEW images on a large display gives you much more powerful and quicker ability toto see if you've missed anything important or are somehow screwing up shots. Even the nicest 4" display on an pro camera doesn't hold a candle to an iPad display.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You act like people gravitate toward superior products, as opposed to the product with superior marketing.
You seem to think there is a differentiation between the two. If an inferior product reaches critical market mass through superior marketing, that mass often makes it the superior choice.
Betamax was superior to VHS, but the players were multiples of cost and the content was lacking. Although Betamax was superior for the engineer, VHS was superior for the consumer.
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Other than slashdotters crying the blues about windows 8 changing the start menu, I've yet to see a complaint about the slate tablets, other than the app store for it not being matured.
Maybe if you were searching for "Surface Tablets" instead of calling them "slate tablets" which refers to a historical product, you might find more articles.
But back on point, Windows 8 was made for tablets, and using it on a desktop computer, or laptop without a touch screen is slow and clumsy.
If and when the RT version gets some apps in the Windows Store, it might sell better.
But as soon as the Pro version is released it will sell quite well, I predict.
There is a great deal of pent up demand for tablets that can run x86 windows applications. Especially in the corporate world, where a charger is readily at hand on every desk, and a 4 hour run time is not a death sentence. There are thousands of uses for this type of device.
Having acquired the x86 HP Slate 500 (yup, that's where the name slate belongs), running Windows 7, I can assure you it was barely usable for any practical purposes, either at home or for business. The x86 Surface can't help but be better.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
And we're surprised it tanked? It may as well be a Touchpad, which was a flop until they gave them away.
The release cycle was totally backwards. You never lead with your stripped down version. They brought a knife to a gun fight.
I'm still interested in the Surface Pro, because it has the potential to be both my laptop and tablet on the go - neither of which can really fill the whole bill at the moment. Surface Pro will run all of my engineering apps, but also be a nice reader as well as have a pen input and a kick ass screen (if reports are to be believed). 4 hour battery will be a non-starter, of course. I haven't decided whether lack of LTE will be an issue; by then I may be on a shared data plan with tethering at no additional cost.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Surfance specifically though is expensive, and there's no obvious reason why you'd want it. Windows 8 is horrid. Everyone I know who has installed it has been desperate to get rid of it, 16 year old tech savvy kids, 16 year old technically inept kids, their 40 year old parents, computer scientists, IT people, physicists, fine arts grad, game, developers and designers.
Surface itself, the hardware, is probably OK, but it's worthless without a slate suited OS, and that isn't windows 7. So you have to spend a lot of money on hardware, with software that you won't really like, and importantly, given the negative reception, I would presume windows 9 will behave very differently from 8, but I have no idea how differently, and that's the problem. What would you be buying into with Surface? Is this a dead product before it goes anywhere? Will it support windows 9? You'd hope, but then after the WP7, WP8 thing I'd be skeptical.
Until the 3rd party guys really get into the game it's hard to see where this is going, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're holding onto what they have until MS has to admit Surface as a failure before they do their thing. Corporate politics and all that.
This story is entirely about Microsoft's tablet...
One of them isn't compatible with current stuff because it run on ARM, and the other will cost an ARM & leg.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Dead on. The surface is selling a new form factor. The inclusion of Office makes it something I might consider, but only if I can get a feel for the form factor before I buy. So when Microsoft does not convince Best Buy et al to put it on shelves I can either conclude that Microsoft does not know how to market things, or that they know that my getting my hands on it at a retail outlet is not going to increase sales.
Perhaps, then, Microsoft shouldn't have tried to market crap products, so many times? If they hadn't served up shit sandwiches at the company picnic year after year, they might not have such a stigma, hmmmmm?
Face it - there are several proven choices for mobile hardware, why would anyone spend this much money on something that is unproven? I mean - it doesn't even have a turbocharger, or an FTL drive, or even an improbability drive. Phhhhtttt.
Now, that's an idea. I'm going to google for a turbocharged Linux powered tablet - as improbable as that is . . .
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Microsoft dealt netbooks the death blow with their "reference platform" for Windows Starter Edition. You couldn't have more than 2GB of memory with only 1GB installed and still get the super duper netbook discount for Windows. You couldn't have a screen larger than 10.2". Only single core CPUs were allowed. This stagnated the netbook market at the same time when full sized laptop prices were dropping and hardware was improving while people shifted away from desktops.
Why would anyone buy a crippled netbook for $250-$300 over a cheap laptop with a real version of Windows, optical drive, multicore processor for $300 - $350? The weight and battery life weren't worth the drawbacks for $50. I was shopping for a netbook for my daughter to take to school during this time and opted to get a laptop instead.
Microsoft disrupted the natural market with their license demands in an attempt to kill Linux on netbooks. Unfortunately for them, the iPad shifted the market for low power computing out of their sphere of influence.
You have obviously not used Windows lately, or any other Microsoft product if you say such abjectly ignorant things. You may laugh, but those of us who have to support Microsoft products know the truth, and how wrong you are. Microsoft-level quality products are indeed expensive, and for good reason too, do you have any idea how much it costs to support this crap? How hard it is to keep up and running? Clean it up after the latest security breach? Preventing breaches is a fools errand, give it up.
All this costs money, lots and lots of money. Initial purchase price may be low compared to everything but FOSS, but that is only the beginning. If you calculate TCO, you will see exactly how expensive this poorly coded pile of outdated security holes really is. It ain't cheap.
-Charlie
[Yes, this may look like sarcasm, but sadly it is not]
Good on you for pointing out that the above poster was wrong, but your follow up can only be said by someone that has no idea what they are talking about. You should at least try to hide your ignorant bias.
First google image result for "ipad versus surface": http://gdeluxe.com/ipad-3-vs-surface-tech-specs/
The Surface RT is 0.1 mm thinner than the iPad 3 (the first "New iPad"), and the added weight is likely because its screen is 0.9 inches larger (10.6 compared to 9.7), which only adds up to 0.06 pounds more.
And, for what it is, it gives your more flexibility than an iPad. You can actually browse the file system. There's no question that both Android and iOS tablets have a much larger swath of apps currently available, but I have gotten far more use out of my Surface in the month that I have owned it compared to my iPad 2 for the entire time that I have owned it (a few months after its initial release). Add to that the free copy of Office that comes with Surface RT, and it's rather dubious to scoff clearly without any actual knowledge of the matter.
It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
For me to ever consider a Microsoft product I would first have to hear them sincerely take blame for Windows, stop selling it, and apologize for it. Until then I can never take them seriously. I suspect most people feel something similar.
All their ads that I've seen for the surface just show people making a single swipe or the yellow pages walk on the screen to move some generic-looking boxes around. They haven't really shown what would set it apart from the less-expensive iPad, aside from it's irritating ability to attract hordes of annoying dancing teens and young adults (okay, that's not a difference at all) and the detachable keyboard.
I'm not going to be inclined to want to buy something if I don't see something about it that makes it better in SOME way than the less expensive competition (besides trying to outdo Apple in the insult-my-intelligence-through-advertising department). From the commercials I have no idea what the freaking thing does or is good for, besides switching keyboards (and STDs?) with strangers and making clicking sounds.
Good on you for pointing out that the above poster was wrong, but your follow up can only be said by someone that has no idea what they are talking about. You should at least try to hide your ignorant bias ... it's rather dubious to scoff clearly without any actual knowledge of the matter ... It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
That's pretty funny. Check out my Slashdot profile, you'll see why.
Anyway, "bulky" is more than just raw dimensions, it's also how the tablet feels in your hands. It's subjective, but everyone I know who actually used Surface agrees that it feels bulkier than an iPad. Then again, iPad is not exemplary, either - if you want to see a truly light and compact tablet, and running WinRT at that, look at Asus Vivo Tab RT.
Then also, using Surface efficiently (esp. if you want to use the "killer features", i.e. Office), keyboard cover is a must. The problem is that those things are pretty damn heavy - Touch Cover is 0.45 lbs! For comparison, iPad smart cover is 0.3 lbs. So, once you add all that up, you're looking at almost two pounds... that is pretty hefty for a tablet.
Also note that, if you're comparing it to new iPad, you should mind the hardware differences, too - iPad has considerably faster CPU than Surface's Tegra 3, and then, of course, there's the Retina screen. The bulk of its weight is due to the battery that had to be made humongous to support that. If you take a device that's actually comparable hardware-wise, that would be iPad 2, more or less - and then you're looking at almost 0.2 lbs of difference in weight.
You seem to forget that beta always had half the recording duration of VHS.
At equivalent duration, beta's quality was inferior to that of VHS.
That doesn't sound "superior" to me, not even for the engineer.
So we agree that the only way for the Surface to succeed is if Microsoft pre-loads it to full capacity with porn.
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And you act like, just because a bunch of people like something, then it can't be a superior product, and must be succeeding solely because of it's marketing.
Thankfully we're not all the same, and the "highly libertarian" types are a vocal extremist minority.
All AC means is that readers can't match up one statement from an AC from another. People never know if they are discussing with the same person, of different people. And that can be annoying.
It has nothing to do with keeping their personal privacy, because of course the majority of the people that post using an account use a pseudonym.
That's not the party line, citizen.
Actually; it seems to be pretty much the party line. Every time we get any discussion of the various Windows 8 components someone pipes up and says "have you tried it", "if you saw the real thing" etc. etc. Every analyst house has completely overestimated the success of Windows phone 7 and Windows 8 in every way. In the same time when Tommi Ahonen was able to give accurate Windows Phone market share forecasts. Have a look at a almost any review; They say "it's great but the price is too high"
Look at the difference between an Android tablet priced for $300 and an Android for $600. One of them is a great value device with real compromises to bring it down to price and the other is a really great no questions device. You can't write a review which says "it's great but it's only worth half it's price". What you mean is "it's crap for the price and they should cut the price to a level where it's worth the money". The entire media is running scared of naming the pile of garbage that is Surface. Have a look at how carefully they never criticize the low resolution of surface; They always prefix with some Microsoft marketing statement; for example extreme tech writes:
etc. etc.
Try to find one of the mainstream reviews which mentions that the surfaces resolution, at 148 PPI, is worse than almost any modern tablet. As a point of reference; the iPad has 264 PPI, the Nexus 7 has 216 PPI and the iPad mini has 163 PPI. The Google Nexus 10 with a 300 PPI screen is a completely different league. With a screen like that the correct price for a Surface is in fact around $250. You would have to go back to the very original iPad screen to find an Apple product with a lower resolution screen. The same thing repeats with mention of the terrible user interface experience - always gently skipped over or we are told "you can get used to it fast". Again with the app store, almost every review completely ignores the quality of the apps ported from iOS.
Have a look on any site with "consumer reviews". You will probably find more positive reviews than there are people outside Microsoft with tablets, and any review which reads as if someone actually used the product will be voted down out of visibility.
I think that the great thing is that consumers have finally realised that there is a Microsoft party line; have realised that that line is everywhere and that they are choosing to ignore it.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
I think someone at Microsoft is too busy trying to imitate Apple and still a bit upset about Intel supporting Linux so much ... Intel is the natural partner for Microsoft at this point, x86 and full backwards compatibility to PC software would give them something unique ... instead they have an overpriced me-too arm tablet which is just worthless compared to the iPad and Nexus 10 (of course most premium tablets have the same problem, but Microsoft had an alternative and blew it).
What a hapless boob. Everything the man touches turns to shit. We are very fortunate he is around, and driving the bus straight off a cliff. How much wong does he have to suck to keep his job?
You seem to think there is a differentiation between the two.
This. A *product* - something made to sell - cannot be separated from its marketing. A widget may be technically extremely good at many things and yet fail as a product because its good qualities are not relevant enough to the consumers or poorly communicated to them, or the process of buying is inconvenient - or for myriad other reasons related to marketing.
Whatever dimwit argued that the Surface needed that "perception of value" should be fired, after being publicly humiliated and dressed like a duck while giving an apologetic speech on national TV.
Hmmm...I'd pay to see that on Pay Per View...
The pre-iPad tablet graveyard is littered with this kind of thinking. A desktop app needs to be reworked to be usable as a tablet-like app. This re-work dwarfs the inconvenience of switching ISAs.
Unless Metro can handle this itself, there is a lot of work to be done. In fairness, I have heard Metro is equally unusable for the desktop and tablet, so maybe it has a chance.
That VivoTab is more compact and lightweight is a fact - you only need to look at published specs for weight and size.
Whether it's "better in general" is obviously subjective. Personally, I much prefer its keyboard dock over Surface keyboard cover (which allows it to be used conveniently on the lap, and not just on hard surfaces), significantly increased battery life due to extra batteries, and presence of GPS.
Also, some of it is not quite correct. For example, while the tablet itself does not have the USB port on it, the keyboard dock does (so you can plug in a USB mouse conveniently, for example); and even when using the tablet undocked, it has a small converter cable that plugs into the charging socket and gives you full-size USB 2.0.
The only review that matters to me is mine. And you can pry my surface from my cold dead hands!
Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
First of all, when the GP said "apps made for Win8", he (or she) was referring to what Microsoft calls Windows Store apps (formerly "Metro-style"). Those can already be only written in specific languages (although a fairly healthy list of them, ranging from HTML5/JS to C/C++) and built using specific compilers (which are available for free). All of those compilers support targeting ARM (in fact, except the C/C++ option, it doesn't even require a recompile). Also, please point me to any Windows Runtime API (which is what Windows Store apps are coded against) that is present on x86 but not on ARM. For that matter, point me to a Win32 one (truly not available, not simply restricted from officially using) that Windows RT lacks. The OS itself is little more than a recompile of the x86 code.
Now, targeting third-party desktop apps is a completely different issue. There's been some success there on Windows RT, getting desktop apps to run in an AppContainer sandbox (which means limited access to the outside system), but building such apps definitely requires recompiles as well as setting up a launcher for them. People (hackers, in the not-malicious sense) are working on this.
If you have any evidence that contradicts anything I've said here, you'll need to cite it. Otherwise I call BS.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Someone was complaining the other day about some of us pointing out the very obvious Microsoft shills, but there is quite obviously a very concerted effort by Microsoft to pump up their credibility and to diminish that of their competitors. It would be quite entertaining if someone were to expose it as they did with the FaceBook attempts.
I am not so sure /.ers think that MS porn is a turn-on,
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
There's no reason the desktop couldn't have location information...just ask the user, or infer it from wifi networks, or get a rough idea based on IP address.
You can only buy the device in about 80 stores NATIONWIDE or on Microsoft Store's website, no shit it's sales are low. Put it in Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc and it would probably triple sales. That's not say 3 Million is an impressive number, but it's just common sense that most people just don't know it exists.
Probably because us "highly libertarian" users are also all about personal accountability. Besides, posting under a pseudonym doesn't exactly scream violations of privacy or freedom to me.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
No. You're forgetting that it was MacOS and MS-DOS.
MS-DOS achieved mass adoption and network effects despite being a giant turd. It nearly killed off MacOS before newer (and relatively decent) versions of Windows became commonplace.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Dancing toddlers, Catholic 4th grade school girls, guy's doing the robot, all with this crippled, expensive, proprietary crap that nobody's gonna want when you can get an Android tablet at the drug store for $99.00!
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
zacharye says "shipped" while quoting the article, which says "sold". Which is it, because there's a huge difference.
Also, Microsoft doesn't sell through Best Buy or Amazon. I think that means the numbers are actual sales to customers. Many companies claim X million shipped - meaning Best Buy and Amazon get stuck with a huge inventory.
That is pretty humorous (for those that don't feel like checking his profile, it claims that he is a Microsoft employee).
That doesn't change the fact that your post combined "heavy" and "bulky." I will give you the fact that "bulky" is quite a subjective term, but heavy is not as subjective. It's a device that is larger than the competition, and the leading competition is the "New iPad." No one is looking at buying the iPad 2 versus the Surface, because the iPad 2 is so much cheaper, but it's also over a year and a half older. Regardless of the iPad, it shouldn't feel heavy because you should very rarely need to actually hold it in the air unlike the iPad. The kickstand alone enables much greater versatility, and it only increases when combined with the Touch Cover.
The Surface loses in the screen resolution corner (and the Surface Pro will continue to lose that fight). Now, as a power user, I would have definitely preferred something akin (maybe I should avoid the word "kin" with Microsoft) to the Retina display, but the heat and reduced battery life really loses it for me. Having said that, I have wanted the Retina display quality in a few games, although, to be fair, I haven't missed it in others. The Surface RT's screen does a good job hiding its lower resolution very well particularly alongside Metro (Microsoft Design), as it suits itself well to nice screens regardless of resolution.
I have both the Touch Cover and iPad Smart Cover, and I honestly can't feel a difference in weight even though it is just an iPad 2 (and not its heavier cousin). In all honesty, I strongly prefer the Touch Cover for multiple reasons. For starters, when combined with the built-in kickstand, I can comfortably use the Surface in my lap without holding it. In fact, I rarely find myself holding the Surface in the air, which is why I think that I really enjoy using it so much. Given a few minutes, I am sure that I could distinguish the heavier of the two, even when just talking 0.35 lbs (difference with covers), but that's frankly the best part about the Surface. I can actually use it on a table with or without the Touch Cover, whereas every iPad requires it, and even then the usability is greatly reduced. Using the Surface on my lap, I find that I have a harder time using the Touch Cover without a solid surface (no pun intended) beneath, and for less frequent typing I love being able to fold the Touch Cover under the kickstand, which lets me flatly rest the Surface on my legs, or even my stomach when I am laying down on my bed. That's something you cannot easily do on the iPad without propping up your legs, uncomfortably holding it in the air, or laying it in your lap and arching your neck.
It's because of all of that that I do not think the Surface is heavy. It's marginally heavier--at best--upon first grab, but you should rarely be holding it. You can if you want too, but most real world situations lead to positions that give the Surface the edge. I personally hate kickstands on phones, but I think that it was brilliant for Microsoft
Throw in the ability to add a microSD card and a USB hub, and I have been thrilled with the versatility of the Surface. Shy of development, I can replace my laptop usage with it entirely. I could never comfortably say that about the iPad.
The iPad's chip is definitely faster than the Tegra 3. I am frankly a little surprised at times when the Tegra 3 is choking, considering the amount of talk I had heard when it was being included in many other devices. Apple has clearly done a very good job in the SoC arena, and I do not know who will be able to take their crown within 2013--I suspect it won't be until 2014 until someone catches up. What I really miss most from the iPad, and Apple products in general, is their battery life. Being that Apple makes the entire product, including the chip, they clearly get the edge here, but they also have amazing batteries regardless of everything else. I hate the inability to replace them, but I have never actually seen
Reviewers I've see have generally been very positive about the Surface, and I've read dozens and dozens of reviews on the topic. There have been a few negative reviews, mostly from sites that focus on Apple products.
News Flash!: Poor product in competitive market sells slowly, film at 11!
Windows RT and the Risc based surface were mistakes. If people wanted locked in, crippled computing devices, the iPad is better established. The ability to have a full computer would have been a great differentiator. Windows 8 on a full computer is great. I have an acer iconia w500 running full windows 8. Its great. It is what Surface should have been if MS could have pulled their collective heads out of their asrses.
I reject your reality
us "highly libertarian" users are also all about personal accountability...
That would be "pseudo accountability" for those of us posting under pseudonyms.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Just... Wow.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
To me, it feels like many (vocal) people online "don't get it" when it comes to Windows 8. Some write articles, others post flaming comments. I like Windows 8, i moreover like that finally the hardware is innovating. (it was a long time due)
So people, grow up and think beyond tomorrow. You are not using a (laptop) computer IN ITS CURRENT FORM until the day you die, things will change, and this is a great innovative step. Walk the learning curve, you old dinosaurs!
Now i'm waiting for the mass consumer market to realize that there is a place for Windows 8 laptops with an 18" IPS screen measuring 2560x1600 boasting a detachable but fullsize keyboard that acts as a cover and (Windows 8 certified) touch. I will happily make due with a Surface Pro until a XL edition is released for big people like me without teener/chinese fingers.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Not sure I want to see porn produced by Microsoft. Watching Ballmer hopping around on stage is bad enough already.
Same is true if a poster creates a different account for each post, or cycle a large number of accounts. Do you similarly scoff at accounts with less than 20 posts in last one year?
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.