How To Use a Linux Virtual Private Server

Nerval's Lobster writes "Game developer David Bolton writes: 'For my development of Web games, I've hit a point where I need a Virtual Private Server. (For more on this see My Search for Game Hosting Begins.) I initially chose a Windows VPS because I know Windows best. A VPS is just an Internet-connected computer. "Virtual" means it may not be an actual physical computer, but a virtualized host, one of many, each running as if it were a real computer. Recently, though, I've run into a dead end, as it turns out that Couchbase doesn't support PHP on Windows. So I switched to a Linux VPS running Ubuntu server LTS 12-04. Since my main desktop PC runs Windows 7, the options to access the VPS are initially quite limited, and there's no remote desktop with a Linux server. My VPS is specified as 2 GB of ram, 2 CPUs and 80 GB of disk storage. The main problem with a VPS is that you have to self-manage it. It's maybe 90% set up for you, but you need the remaining 10%. You may have to install some software, edit a config file or two and occasionally bounce (stop then restart) daemons (Linux services), after editing their config files.'"

Comments

Oh fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

Hire a manager for it or learn to use it. How in hell is this in the front page?

Re:Oh fuck

[xaxa]

Because it's from Dice: http://news.dice.com/2012/12/10/linux-virtual-private-server/

(The company that bought Slashdot.)

Re:Oh fuck

[Moblaster]

I suspect the entire post is a subtle troll to fill up an otherwise newsless day. Doing "the last 10%" is called "doing your job" to people whose job it is to manage servers. If it's not your job, hire someone and go away. That's about as subtle a non-answer a non-question, non-issue can get.

Re:Oh fuck

[kc67]

I would ask the same thing... it went from submitted, to blue, to front page...

Re:Oh fuck

[AvitarX]

Seriously, I use hostgator, and they've installed anything PHP related and configured PHP/added help with no complaints.

Via WHM it is quite easy to restart a service.

They charge $10/month for the WHM, and it includes the installs for free, so hiring someone to do it costs merely $120/year, should be quite easy to cover.

Re:Oh fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

It's his first time in his life, where he's actually *using* a computer, instead of playing with colorful clickables on appliances that happen to be implemented on a computer.

Be nice to him!
What an experience are you creating, by making the first reaction one of hate? He will forever associate that with Linux.

Re:Oh fuck

[n17r0u6]

http://en.gravatar.com/dhbolton

Re:Oh fuck

[Hatta]

Dat's what you think? Unbelievable.

Re:Oh fuck

[Pope Raymond Lama]

Really, even on superuser.com - where this kind of question is _the_ focus, this one would closed as too broad.

Re:Oh fuck

[highphilosopher]

I'd love to offer my "managerial services". Please remit the IP address of your VPS on this slashdot article. I'll take a look at it :)

Ahem

[Sparticus789]

and there's no remote desktop with a Linux server

Spending about 3.8753 seconds on Google would reveal that there are numerous Linux remote desktop clients which can be downloaded for use.

Re:Ahem

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, quite possibly, the VPS host provides console access through VNC to access the virtualized "physical" screen and keyboard.

Re:Ahem

[omnichad]

Yeah - and Ubuntu server is headless and has none of the libraries you need for that. It's a bone-headed Windows approach that's just going to eat up resources. Writer of the article used PuTTY on Windows to access over SSH and WinSCP for file transfer.

Re:Ahem

[slaker]

RDP clients are typically used to administer Windows machines, but as far as I know, Linux does not have an RDP server. It has VNC and X11, but both of those guys are enormous bandwidth hogs with a limited feature set compared to what RDP is capable of.

Re:Ahem

[Sparticus789]

Default install of Ubuntu-server is headless. You can type sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop and you will have a GUI.

Re:Ahem

[h4rr4r]

So use NoX or Spice or maybe just maybe be a big boy and use SSH.

Re:Ahem

[Sparticus789]

Unless you are busy downloading the world repository of pr0n, gigabit ethernet is more than enough to handle VNC.

Re:Ahem

[omnichad]

Yes, but does it gain you anything useful?

Re:Ahem

[Xtifr]

First of all, "enormous bandwidth hog" is completely different from "doesn't exist". Second of all, I dispute the claim WRT to VNC. And third of all, it doesn't matter since there is an RDP server for Linux! Took me all of about 20 seconds to find.

But I agree with other posters that a remote desktop, no matter which variation you choose to use, is a poor way to administer a Linux server. If bandwidth is a concern, straight SSH uses far less than RDP. And anyway, most of the most common server software is designed to be administered via a web interface. So, what are you going to do? Use RPD to run a local web browser? Truly silly. Just make sure your admin web interfaces aren't public.

Re:Ahem

[Xtifr]

Actually, a whole lot of Linux servers are administered via a web interface. Which, again, makes RPD a silly, waste-of-time approach.

Re:Ahem

[jonadab]

The server is running Linux. The client desktop is Windows.

So what he actually wants is probably putty (or *possibly* VNC, if he's one of those mouse-only users, completely allergic to typing for some arcane reason), but being a Windows user he doesn't know the terminology needed to do a web search for it.

(Theoretically, there _is_ also an RDP server for Linux, but it's a niche thing, and so the hassle of trying to set it up is not recommended for someone who is new to Linux. It's much better for him to go with something on the server side that's in the standard repository. Installing Putty on the client side should be no big deal, since the client side is an OS with which he's already experienced.)

Re:Ahem

[Anon-Admin]

Also, quite possibly, the VPS host provides Security Holes through VNC to access the virtualized "physical" screen and keyboard.

There, fixed that for you.

Re:Ahem

[Sparticus789]

Some GUI applications have their uses. I'd rather use Disk Utility or the LVM GUI than do it through CL. Mounting external media is much easier with a GUI, since you do not have to attempt to predict which device name that external hard drive will be given. Also, while wget can be used on CL, downloading files from the internet is a lot easier with a full on browser. For example, installing CPAN modules that are not included in the default repositories. Yes, I know you can add others repos to apt-get.

Re:Ahem

[h4rr4r]

predict?
Gee I already have sda and sdb I wonder what that usb device will be?

To install CPAN modules use CPAN, not apt.

Re:Ahem

[omnichad]

How often are you going to be mounting external media on a remote server? I also can't really think of very often where I don't just do wget instead of a web browser. I have ubuntu-server on a home server, and I've never had even the inkling of a need for a GUI - and I'm a Windows convert with OSX on my desktop.

I'm not saying your preference is invalid in any way. For a remote server, using any kind of VNC or rdp is also going to be slower than SSH.

Re:Ahem

[omnichad]

Of course, I also have no mouse, keyboard, or screen connected to my home server. Trying to use a remote GUI just makes life difficult IMHO.

Re:Ahem

[bonehead]

Also, while wget can be used on CL, downloading files from the internet is a lot easier with a full on browser.

No, the actual easy way to do this is to find the file you want using the browser on your local workstation, right click, copy link, switch to remote terminal window, type "wget " and hit shift-insert.

Running a full-on browser via x over ssh isn't really going to give you screaming fast performance. I can't think of a situation where I'd even be tempted to do it.

Re:Ahem

[bonehead]

And how many people have a gigabit connection to their VPS host?

Re:Ahem

[Blaskowicz]

Well, if you do remote X11 on a server, you're probably going to run lightweight things such as a graphical emacs or some crappy gtk interface or whatever, not a web browser or libreoffice or gimp.

If you run such light and old-school things that will mostly show you text, check boxes, combo boxes and the like you may reasonably get by with the stupid X11 and its needless round trips. Especially with the reasonably good bandwith and latency you should get from the hosting you dearly pay for.

n00b

[ilikenwf]

If you don't know how to do this, please hire someone. And use Debian stable over ubuntu for servers. It's much more stable and much less full of Shuttleworth.

Re:n00b

[omnichad]

Have you looked at Ubuntu Server Edition lately? They have an LTS version that's supported for 5 years of security updates without updating to a new distro release. Debian doesn't come close.

Re:n00b

[ilikenwf]

I just can't support an over commercialized, inferior, bloated distro. Debian Stable is the epitome of long term support as a result of the slow release cycle. As a result, you get security updates indefinitely and can install newer software if you want it from backports or source, or install the packages DotDeb for lamp stacks.

As a side note, I have to mention that I have never had an Ubuntu install of any type - desktop or server - that didn't fall into dependency hell upon doing a dist-upgrade. Archlinux for desktops, Debian for servers.

Re:n00b

[DJ Jones]

We all did this once, that's how we got here. We weren't all born admins. At one point in time you were in the same boat. Unless he does it himself, he's never gonna learn and then when shit hits the fan he's not gonna have the tools to fix it.

Follow this tutorial. If you don't like ISPConfig, try another setup on howtoforge and see how it works for you: http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-ubuntu-12.04-lts-apache2-bind-dovecot-ispconfig-3

Re:n00b

[h4rr4r]

The difference is we did not post our ignorance on the frontpage of slashdot and have it accepted.

Re:n00b

[mbrod]

That used to be the case but I just did my laptop and it went flawlessly. So I think it has improved.

Re:n00b

[pak9rabid]

As a side note, I have to mention that I have never had an Ubuntu install of any type - desktop or server - that didn't fall into dependency hell upon doing a dist-upgrade. Archlinux for desktops, Debian for servers.

Funny, I just did 2 version upgrades on Ubuntu Server recently without really any problems. Perhaps you're holding it wrong?

Re:n00b

[twistedcubic]

Actually, the support terms for Ubuntu LTS and Debian stable are very similar if you know the process. Debian testing is frozen for the better part of a year before being released as stable, while Ubuntu takes Debian testing and pretends that it is stable. So Ubuntu releases a year earlier than they should while Debian testing is frozen and perfectly useable (in the Ubuntu sense of useable). Lenny got 3 years support as stable, and Squeeze will probably get 3 to 3.5 years. Add the freeze and you get nearly 4 years for Lenny and maybe 4.5 years for Squeeze. AND you get better software. AND Debian stable is (GNU) free software. I think Debian is the finest operating system in the world. This explains why everybody steals from Debian, not Ubuntu.

Re:n00b

[t0rkm3]

Or not using nvidia graphics cards or broadcom chipsets. Archlinux handles these nicely, while Ubuntu chunders.

Also the Ubuntu folks are selective about what hardware problems are a priority. That is to be expected from a business. In contrast, Archlinux devs don't really give a lot of crap about your hardware, but there is likely someone who has had the same problem and has provided the fix. This method seems to work long term because Archlinux uses the vanilla builds.

Re:n00b

[jafo]

>Debian Stable is the epitome of long term support

Actually, it's absolutely not. Long Term Support means that when I deploy a set of services on a system, I know exactly how long I have before I need to qualify, test, and roll out that application when the current version reaches EOL. Many of the clients I've worked with take a year or more to do such a qualification (because of complex applications, lacking test suites, lacking development resources, etc...).

Note on the Debian Wikipedia page that the only supported version (6.0/squeeze) lists "supported until" as "TBA".

Every other LTS release out there (Ubuntu, RHEL/CentOS, SLES), lists multiple supported releases, with end of life dates in the future. For example, Ubuntu lists 5 currently supported releases, the most recent of which is supported until April 2017. CentOS lists 2, the most recent of which is supported until the end of 2020.

I love Debian, but I do not recommend my clients use it for servers. Right now, if a client deployed their services on the most recent Debian server, they have no idea when the End of Life is going to be. The current release will go End of Life a year after the next version is released. The next version has been in freeze since June 30, 2012, so this could be any time now. If testing for migration to a new OS takes a year (which is not uncommon in my experience), you could deploy a service and immediately need to start working on migrating it.

RHEL, on the other hand, you can deploy it today and know that you don't HAVE to migrate until 2020.

As a production sys admin I assert that it's not reasonable to run a server in production that is not receiving security updates.

So, as far as Debian as an LTS release: Just don't.

Re:n00b

[styrotech]

Have you looked at Ubuntu Server Edition lately? They have an LTS version that's supported for 5 years of security updates without updating to a new distro release. Debian doesn't come close.

That known 5 year term and fixed release dates is the advantage Ubuntu Server LTS has over Debian Stable.

The advantage of Debian Stable has over Ubuntu LTS is that Ubuntu only officially supports packages installed from the main repository. Packages from universe may or may not get patched. Debian security updates cover all repositories.

Pick your poison.

Re:n00b

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian Lenny (5.0) security support ended in February 2012, exactly one year after the release of Debian Squeeze (6.0). Note that Squeeze was officially frozen on August 06, 2010, thus giving a total 18 month for planning, qualification and non-regression tests. In addition, about one month before the freeze, the Debian team announced they were moving on a roughly two years lifecycle, meaning that Debian Wheezy (7.0) will probably be released in the following 4 months, maybe a bit more.

You are right, this is not "Long Term Support" if you consider Ubuntu's 5-year support as the minimum, so, let's just say it's "Not-so-short Term Support", and I find it perfectly suitable for most corporate needs. And I find it very hard to believe that a software designed to run on CentOS 6 will last until 2020 without any major failure. I can't imagine a situation where sysadmins and developers doing housekeeping chores on an obsolete system do not tend to do a bad job. Not even mentioning the fact that even if the OS is supported until 2017 or 2022, most of the installed software won't be.

Maybe I'm trolling here, but I strongly believe that in most cases, 10-year support for an OS is just a recipe for bad habits, bitrot and ultimately disaster. Remind me of a client of mine still running is database tier on CentOS 5.3 (CentOS 5 EOL is 2017). They had to move from postgres 8.3 to 8.4 because of performance issues. As they were forbidden to upgrade the OS, even in 5.7 or 5.8 that do provide support and packages for pgsql 8.4, they decided to... Compile postgres 8.4 by themselves and install it. Of course, this was totally moronic and they could have installed any binary version instead, but they didn't : bad habit. Of course, they are stuck in an impossible situation where they experience a 2 hours database total lockdown at peak hours. Of course, this would be solved by installing CentOS 6 and the newer linux kernel, upgrading to postgres 9.1 in the process, but they can't do that because they are absolutely not prepared for it (and they sold to management they wouldn't have to worry about OS upgrades before 2017).

Of course, this server hosts the database tier for several business-critical applications in a really, major, institution.

Re:n00b

[olau]

While your points are valid, what you're pointing out is mostly the difference between having commercial support or not. Debian is volunteer-run and hence best effort. Strictly speaking most commercial offerings are best effort when the shit really hits the fan also, but at least they can hire people to fix things for you. And keep supporting really old software.

Still, if you do not not lock yourself down in the manner you describe (I'm not saying that's the wrong way to do things, just saying it's not right for everyone), Debian is really good. Debian people are serious about server needs.

And your problem is .... ?

[gus goose]

.... you are new to Linux, and you need some help?

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/FAQ

gus

Re:And your problem is .... ?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you follow the link, you'll note it's not actually an "ask /." article. I think it's meant to be like a how-to, except written by someone who doesn't really know how to.
Maybe it's ironic?

Re:And your problem is .... ?

[Xtifr]

II think it's meant to be like a how-to, except written by someone who doesn't really know how to.

God, I think you're right. Truly pathetic. Maybe I'll write a How-To Use Windows Server article that complains about the lack of proper command-line and web admin tools, and the lack of /dev/ and /etc/ directories. It would make about as much sense as this nonsense.

Re:And your problem is .... ?

[mu51c10rd]

I would love to see your article posted on the front page of Slashdot like this one. At least I know yours would be written in a humorous vein...

Please stop

[WaffleMonster]

Stop trolling us slashdot... this aint news and it aint a legitimate question... please just stop.

Re:Please stop

[VortexCortex]

The above poster is insightful moreso than flamebait. It's fucking serious man. "Trolling" as in "Trolling for comments with a dumb-as-fuck baited question". Please, Slashdot. We value your minimal editorial skills, and now even those are lacking now. Stop trolling us. What's next? "How to use a Linux root terminal" posted by someone who's only ever used iPhones?

Re:Please stop

[maxwell demon]

"How do I use my keyboard? I'm so confused by the many buttons!" :-)

Re:Please stop

[h4rr4r]

Submit that as a topic.

I want to see that on the frontpage. At least by submitting maybe the editors will get a clue.

Try Jelastic?

[Anonymous Coward]

You could try php.jelastic.com which gives you the power of a server (or cloud of servers) without the server administration headache.

Apt-get install clue

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

X over SSH.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[PlusFiveTroll]

Why the fuck would use a window manager on a server. Just a good way to increase security exposure.

The big problem here is the VPS user has no clue about his operating system, this will end in tears, most likely the hacker kind.

Second is, linux server tools don't need a GUI. Even if you had one, you'd just use it to edit txt (conf) files.

All you really need is putty and WinSCP.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't bother, they're just "making" news.

If it weren't for the terms vps, ubuntu and windows 7, I could have swore the article is 10 years old.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[houstonbofh]

Why do people always hate the GUI? The reason it is on computers is that people find it useful. I install the GUI tools on many of my servers. I remove gdm or lightdm as appropriate... But being able to xtunnel handy apps is one way to make my work easier. CPannel or webmin is a way other people use a GUI.


As for a security risk, that is total bullshit. You are running it all through ssh. The only exposure is ssh, and if that is hacked, why bother "hacking" x as well? (Especially since it is not running on any ports...)

Re:Apt-get install clue

[h4rr4r]

Because it is not possible to automate and not really useful.

Any task a gui can do a can be done faster without it.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[rickb928]

Mod this up further. And learn to use screen.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[CodeReign]

As already stated, it adds weight and security concerns. It's a lot easier to parse text than it is to store and display a video stream.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Sure. I agree.

vim and /etc

The article poses the (strawman?) problem for a Windows developer, who has no GUI access to the VPS.

I'm pretty sure he could do whatever he wanted with a local VM. :-)

Other than that? All around cluelessness. He just wants a specific supported script engine on an Apache server.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Detritusher]

Step 1. Learn to use *nix as it was designed to be used, through the shell. I know you skipped this step because you think cPanel is a good idea.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[hduff]

Don't bother, they're just "making" news.

If it weren't for the terms vps, ubuntu and windows 7, I could have swore the article is 10 years old.

I've been "bouncing daemons" since before then.

WTF is it with kids nowadays?

Other than "I did someting I think is cool", what does this article contribute? Nothing.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[berashith]

it looks like you just told someone how to do something that you have never done yourself.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[dna_(c)(tm)(r)]

Not to mention...if you try usinig/installing some tools, like Oracle, which forces you to use a java GUI to install and other configs....you have to have X running.

Command line only, is often not a valid paradigm, depending on what you want to do with Linux these days, especially if using commercial software on it.

On the plus side, though, having a headless server discourages you from installing Larry's beast and keeping it well fed.

If you've got that much money to burn you might as well install PostgreSQL or (shudder) Hadoop and hire some real competent software/system/* engineers

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to disagree with this. GUIs are not the end-all-be-all of computing by any means, but they have their uses. I would be loathe to edit graphics using a CLI, for example, other than the most routine rotation, scaling, etc.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Ubi_NL]

Because for ex-windows admin the learning is too steep otherwise. I always give new admins a gui and discover that after a year, they stopped using it and use the command shell instead.. Without the gui they stop before they even started...

Re:Apt-get install clue

[AncientPC]

tmux and byobu are the modern alternatives. I have quite a hefty .screenrc, but the modern iterations are easier to use and customize.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[h4rr4r]

Which has jack and squat to do with the discussion at hand.

And actually a lot of audio visual work can be more quickly handled by the CLI. Like say if you want to crop a few thousand images in the same way.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[riley]

The OP is using as a server. I'd hope he is following best practices and developing locally (and securely) and deploying on the network. Especially if he is unfamiliar with the production environment.

Ultimately, the OP should probably install VirtualBox or another virtualization solution on his/her Windows 7 desktop, and figure out the deployment strategy before exposing their work on the network. It doesn't cost anything but a little bit of time, and the pay off is understanding what you are pushing out in the real world.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[xaxa]

it looks like you just told someone how to do something that you have never done yourself.

Yes, but hopefully it's enough to lead him towards the solution, and I think the response to this article has established that /. readers (commenters?) don't need handholding.

The first Google result is this: https://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=833167

Re:Apt-get install clue

[cayenne8]

I've never installed the Oracle database, but there's usually a command-line option on commercial installers, even if it's not properly documented. Try running with -help, --help, -h, etc and see if it will tell you.

There is a rather poorly documented 'silent install' method you can use...but it isn't as feature rich as the GUi, and if I recall even reading docs from Oracle, they don't recommend you using that method.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[TheCarp]

As for the security risk, you are mostly correct. There is little exposure to running an X app over ssh. A few theoretical issues maybe but, nothing serious.

The thing is, its not what us experienced unix folks do, and with good reason. I have spent more time writing custom scripts to add and manage users than I have used gui tools to manage them. Its nice to be able to click and add a user, its nicer to be able to write a script so I can do it exactly the same way every time, or hand that duty off to someone else with sudo privs and not have to worry about giving him root access, or to implement some custom system where passwords are auto-generated and mailed out etc.....

Frankly the problem isn't the gui tools per se. Its that a linux system is very complicated with a lot of moving parts. On the plus side, this means you can tear it down to the bear minimum and customize it to your hearts content, only limited by your imagination and skill, On the minus side, you can really get out into some major weeds to the point that even the best admins will be calling it a rebuild.

If you are just getting by on gui tools, you are asking for trouble.... HOWEVER..... I don't want to entirely knock them. *I* started out with them. Since then however, I have totally abandoned them. When I use X11 over ssh, you can bet its because I am using something that just gives me no other way. (some software installs...ugh)

My advice would be...if someone wants to seriously go down this path...do it...but do it knowing full well its going ot be a major learning experience. I would setup a second VPS or even a system at home, just to experiment with....

If you really want to get competent:
1. Find out what your tools are REALLY DOING. Find out what the command line equivalents are, see what the differences are.
2. Don't fear vi. It is less true these days that you are likely to find yourself sitting in front of a dead system at 3 am and the only tool that works is vi. Especially on linux (more so than many more traditional systems) vi is not your only option, nor your only good one. All that said.... it *IS* the gold standard for sysadmin editors. Its what the cool kids use ;) Its also more powerful than you can possibly imagine. It is worth learning.
3. Consider learning some shell script. Its very powerful, its also the exact same language you type at the shell. Learning shell syntax will save you time, even if you never save anything to a fixed script.
4. Remember this is a job people get paid and paid well to do. You are dabbling in my career here. Don't expect to be an expert over night, and don't make too many commitments. I have been at it for 12 years professionally.... it takes time and experience to get good.

That said.... it seems this is all about web game development? If so....hey.... development? Have a blast man! However, if you are expecing to actually run code for public consumption? I would be a bit worried, expect downtime while you figure it all out.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[theArtificial]

I have to disagree with this. GUIs are not the end-all-be-all of computing by any means, but they have their uses. I would be loathe to edit graphics using a CLI, for example, other than the most routine rotation, scaling, etc.

Fine and dandy if you're operating on a workstation, if you're doing this on a server (which is the focus of this conversation) you're doing it wrong. Command line graphic manipulation is mature and powerful, although not nearly as intuitive as using a GUI. It's worth it in the long run if you're offering services to users that depend on re-sizing photos, watermarking, and related asset generation rather than depending on someone for photoshop macros. Unless you want to argue that Facebook employs an army of photoshop monkeys with stellar performance...

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Zalbik]

Any task a gui can do a can be done faster without it.

Photo editing.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[theArtificial]

Oh, please. Take your hand off your dick, stop masturbating to the CLI, put your pants up and realize that CLI doesn't suit for e.g. creating visually-consumed content, for managing audio-visual content, for design work and so on and so forth.

Are you aware this is a discussion about servers? Do you think Youtube converted all those videos with an army of people using video editing software or was it done using command line utilities? Do you think photos which are resized on websites are done using people with image manipulation software? Where is the mythic MySpace and Facebook farms of employees who handle the near instantaneous resizes? Why would they use command line utilities if they're so terrible, in your opinion?

Do you know that video encoding and manipulation (think resizing, watermarking, generating keyframe snapshots, and applying filters) is done by software which is command line controlled? What about comparing scenes output with different compression settings? Sure these can be done by a warm body, if it needs to be done with any frequency there is a reason why computers are involved, automation. Command line and client software that support macros are a means to that end. Automating a GUI on a server is not the ideal way to do these things especially if its internet facing.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Anonymous Coward]

You have odd uses for servers.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[PhotoJim]

I prefer tmux too, but one nice thing about GNU screen is its ability to be a simple dumb terminal (screen /dev/ttyS0 9600 e.g.).

Re:Apt-get install clue

[jdray]

Why on Earth is this modded "Troll"? The first question is rhetorical, not trolling.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[iamgnat]

Not to mention...if you try usinig/installing some tools, like Oracle, which forces you to use a java GUI to install and other configs....you have to have X running.

Command line only, is often not a valid paradigm, depending on what you want to do with Linux these days, especially if using commercial software on it.

Oracle is a bad example for your point since you don't have to have X running on the target host. You simply need to export your DISPLAY (over your SSH tunnel of course) back to your X workstation. Works fine and you don't need an X server running anywhere it isn't needed. Having X apps and X libraries installed (so you can remote display apps when needed) is much different having X running on a server that is not meant to have direct human interaction (e.g. not a terminal).

And if you are a competent Oracle Admin you save the config when you are done so that subsequent installs can be done with the silent installer so no manual interaction is needed.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[MaskedSlacker]

Many photo editing tasks can be done faster without a gui.

Resizing, cropping, converting, compressing, etc.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[sizzop]

Reminds me of my last job. I'm the only admin who understands Linux (problem #1) and I had some Ubuntu servers up and humming along nicely. While I was on vacation, apparently somebody decided that something needed to be done on the server. The other admin looks up the apt-get string to install a graphical environment, and voila! Full blown GUI on my nice streamlined servers wasting resources and broadening our attack surface. It was brilliant. /vent

Re:Apt-get install clue

[volxdragon]

The big problem here is the VPS user has no clue about his operating system, this will end in tears, most likely the hacker kind.

Yes the hacker will be laughing so hard when he finds this poor SOB's VPS he will be crying... doing stuff like this when you do not know what you are doing is just asking for trouble if you plan on using it in a production environment. Get a clue and get someone competent to run the system, don't try to do it on the cheap (or don't be surprised when you get owned).

Re:Apt-get install clue

[larien]

I've done Unix admin for years. I still find it quicker and easier to manage clusters with a GUI because frankly, they're too bloody complicated to manage effectively without one. Yes, you can automate with the CLI (I've written scripts to automate service group creation in VCS), but for a quick dive in to check the cluster status & configuration, it's usually quicker with a GUI to drill down to the setting you need.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[TheCarp]

Oh and a couple of things I really should have mentioned.... save yourself some trouble, and make sure you have dos2unix.

Because I know you wont learn vi overnight (or do what i did and avoid it for several years), and you will likely find some shell extention that does sshfs or realize that you can use winscp to sftp into the box and then right click on a file and edit, or you will just copy a file locally and edit it, and reupload.

At some point, you WILL transfer a file that has the wrong line endings, and it will be one of the ones where it matters (there are many times it is not a problem, shell scripts are not one of them). The file command will often tip you off to dos line endings, and dos2unix will do the conversion.

If you want to move a file or several files from one unix machine to another, but have to copy to a windows machine inbetween.... make a tarball and move that instead.

Oh and always set putty and winscp to use blowfish as the first cipher....it speeds up file transfer times significantly over the AES default.

And always make backup copies of config files before you edit them. Consider installing git and using git for this purpose right in /etc

If nothing else, being able to do a "git diff" and see everything you have changed since the last commit will be inordinately helpful when making posts asking for help in online forums.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Larryish]

You need NXServer.

Consider XFCE for your desktop environment. Leaves more memory for doing things that are actually useful.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Bacon Bits]

Define "faster".

Do you mean a task can be scripted to run in batches to use a predefined (dynamic or otherwise) input and output condition? Then yes.
Do you mean an expert in the specific task at hand with experience using the required tools? Then yes.
Do you mean a task can be executed and reach completion faster without the computational overhead of having to load a UI? Then, probably, yes.

For pretty much anything else, it's a wash because the computer isn't the limiting factor. The user is. This isn't the 1970's. Computer time is cheap. Ridiculously cheap. So cheap that nearly every individual is walking around with more computational power idling in their pocket than anybody ever dreamed could possibly exist in the 1970's. Human time is expensive. Humans have to learn to use things, and humans a better at learning to use objects that represent things they can relate to instead of abstract names with little to no concrete meaning. The majority of the world doesn't like command lines. They like a UI that they can understand. That computer experts in this day and age are still fighting this battle shows that while they certainly understand the computer, they don't understand the user at all.

Seriously, you might as well just say "it's faster to grow your own silicon chip specifically dedicated to your task instead of relying on the much slower general purpose processor". The statement is true only in the context of all the background preparation work already having been done. Certainly, there are situations where you need to be an expert, or need to script the task, or actually care about performance overhead, or actually need a dedicated silicon chip. However, to argue that the first steps of any layman should be to become an expert -- regardless of the complexity of the task -- is absolutely ludicrous. "LOL RTFM" is not an appropriate response to someone asking for help. Ever. If that's all you've got just don't say anything and let someone else actually answer the question.

This is the problem with the Linux community. It is assumed that everyone must be technically an expert to use a computer, and that is absurd. I'm not a certified mechanic, but I own a car. I'm not an aerospace engineer, but I use an airplane. I'm not a classically trained chef, but I have a kitchen. I'm not plumber, electrician, carpenter, or gardener, but I own a house. Expertise should not a prerequisite to using a computer to accomplish a task.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[lister king of smeg]

or cat'ing a bunch of mp3 files together from an audiobook, or re-encoding the audio of a large number of files adjusting the bit rate of the audio or video files

Re:Apt-get install clue

[cwebster]

Thankfully the way X is structured, the X server is running on your machine, not the VPS. ssh -X or ssh -Y and your X applications will connect to your locally running X server to display themselves, while running and installing on the VPS.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[h4rr4r]

No, I only suggest it for the tasks it has a use. Sysadmin work, which is what the moron in the article wanted.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Flourpower]

It was a few seconds of madness thinking it because RDP on Windows makes life a bit easier but I did say " I decided to bite the bullet and stick to using the terminal." and like you said did just use putty and WinSCP. I may be from the Windows world but I'm increasing finding the terminal way ok.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Blaskowicz]

You could look at Dokan sshfs on Windows, Dokan is basically a FUSE implementation in .NET. A bit buggy and slow but it does work, even mouting your remote ssh share on a drive letter such as "R:" or "P:" or whatever. Windows does support mounting anything in a folder too but sticking with the stupid CP/M drive letters is simple enough too.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Blaskowicz]

You have no clue, when doing X over ssh, the X11 server AND window manager run on your local computer not the remote host. This mean you can run a graphical app on your server, such as a graphical frontend or a file manager, without Xorg or a window manager installed on the server. On the Windows side, you only need putty and Xming ; remote windows behave seamlessly like local Windows windows, though a braindead container window managed by the piece of shit twm is an option.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Flourpower]

Though I didn't use a GUI in my article, there are many ways a GUI (I'm thinking Windows Explorer) can be used to select files by size, file type for copying etc faster than from a command line. You can select multiple files from up or down a hierarchy of folders. On Linux, it's not so clear cut. Back in the Dos days in the early 1990s Xtree Gold pissed over anything you could do in Dos. That was a GUI that kicked ass. WinSCP does make working with Putty a lot easier.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[HyperQuantum]

ImageMagick!

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Flourpower]

Thank you for a useful constructive comment. Lots of negativity elsewhere sure erodes the soul. The VPS is for a game processing engine I'm creating working to do reasonably sophisticated processing then updating a database that feeds a website. The kind of thing you can't do in a shared web server where scripts have a 30 second time out. I will have it professionally managed when I launch (months away) but the VPS is mainly for performance testing., I have a Linux box at home running Ubuntu 12:04 which er does have a desktop- easier to setup a server version then add desktop than install desktop and add servers, I'll take your advice about Vi. Being a Windows developer by day, I'm used to that environment and Programmers notebook etc but you make a good point about Vi

Re:Apt-get install clue

[LurkerXXX]

SERVER task.

Photo editing is not what you do on servers.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[kimvette]

Command line graphic manipulation is mature and powerful [imagemagick.org], although not nearly as intuitive as using a GUI.

On the contrary, viewing flat text files, for example, is a lot better than going through eleventyteen different tabs and dialog boxes, and THEN having to go and edit a metabase through the equivalent of PEEK and POKE. Granted IIS has gotten a little better with Windows 2008, but there is no less clicking between a zillion different tabs and dialogs and forms than previous versions. In apache, it's all right in front of you in .conf files, and in instances where other .conf files are included it's very straightforward. Sure, you might have to do some RTFMing and have a clue, but a sysadmin should know how the system works and be willing to RTFM anyhow.

The command line can be very intuitive - more so than clicking in this huge graphics-rich, slow and cumbersome administrative UI.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[znanue]

Any task a gui can do a can be done faster without it.

Photo editing.

I rather dislike it when people respond to someone's claim with a counterclaim well outside the generally understood context of the original claim (In this case...running a VPS). At least, my understanding is that people don't get a VPS for the purpose of photo editing. But, since you need everything overly qualified at all times, in general, it is faster to do server administrative tasks on the console. You can automate repetitive tasks more easily. And, as someone else mentioned, you can limit your port exposure.

Z

Re:Apt-get install clue

[styrotech]

You have no clue, when doing X over ssh, the X11 server AND window manager run on your local computer not the remote host. This mean you can run a graphical app on your server, such as a graphical frontend or a file manager, without Xorg or a window manager installed on the server.

Thank you. I ended up scrolling through dozens upon dozens of comments before finding one that knew that.

I was beginning to think nobody would figure it out at all. News for Nerds? Sheesh

Re:Apt-get install clue

[theArtificial]

The command line can be very intuitive - more so than clicking in this huge graphics-rich, slow and cumbersome administrative UI.

It can also be intimidating, look at setting a bunch of video encoder settings sometime. At the end of the day, they're tools to assist with getting your work done. The more familiar you are with your tools, the more effective you'll be and that benefits everyone (company, client etc.)

Sure, you might have to do some RTFMing and have a clue, but a sysadmin should know how the system works and be willing to RTFM anyhow.

Absolutely.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Anonymous Coward]

find . -size +1M -name -size -4M "*.tar.gz" -exec rm {} \;

What's a fast way to do something like this in Windows Explorer?

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Daniel Klugh]

Rogue is a graphical/visual interface. You can see all the monsters/items/landscape features laid out graphically on any text terminal. A non-graphical "text" RPG would be like Zork or some other so-called "text adventure" where you have to picture the lay-out of the game world in your mind.

And doesn't Rogue pre-date curses?
(as in it just reads /etc/termcap and outputs the escape/control codes itself)

Re:Apt-get install clue

[houstonbofh]

As already stated, it adds weight and security concerns. It's a lot easier to parse text than it is to store and display a video stream.

What security concern does a GUI running standalone via ssh x tunnels add to a server? This is without a desktop manager running, remember... So, what exactly is the concern again when the X-server is only running on the client workstation?

Re:Apt-get install clue

[houstonbofh]

Solution is to have minimul gui installed and keep it turned off until you need it.

Actually, that is exactly what I suggested 3 posts ago, and the guy who called it "not useful" got moded +5...

Re:Apt-get install clue

[houstonbofh]

The thing is, its not what us experienced unix folks do, and with good reason.

Only using Unix for 25 year or so, I guess I am not that experienced... :) The GUI is a tool, just like the cli, bash, and perl. I use the tool that does the best job with the least effort. And since I work on lots of different Linux and BSD and Unix systems, which all decide to stick configs in different places, a GUI tool is often very handy. The only tool that is absolutely critical, however, is ssh. Not just a log in tool, but as a file mount, a x tunnel, a tunnel and authentication piece... When you tunnel SQL over ssh and open a database only listening on localhost over the network, the looks you get are priceless!

Re:Apt-get install clue

[houstonbofh]

Because to some people CLI is religion, and disagreement is heresy! Smite the blasphemer with mod points.


If you look at my post history, you can easily find the "sensitive" topics. They are the ones modded troll... I am used to it. Mostly amused by it actually. :)

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Jmc23]

Context! If you stop thinking about other people's dicks, you might have noticed this was a discussion about SERVERS!

Re:Apt-get install clue

[BitZtream]

Oracle works fine from the command line, installation included. I know, I've done it.

PostgreSQL is free, no money burning required.

Hadoop is not a database server.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[AlphaWolf_HK]

As a general rule, adding moe services, even internal ones, opens more holes.

Suppose you manage to find a zero day exploit for ssh, but it only gets you limited user access. But as it turns out, you also have another zero day for x.org, and that onegrapples to get you root access.

Probably not a realistic scenario, but we've seen stranger things happen.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[AlphaWolf_HK]

Sorry, that one "happens" to get you root access. Not sure how that word got mangled.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[tofarr]

Remote desktop in cases where bandwidth is limited is just painful - SSH is your friend.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[TheCarp]

Depends. You don't need to install a full desktop to use X clients (the X Server would be installed locally, something like XMing). In fact, you don't need much more than a few X Libraries for it to work just fine.

Not to say any particular tool doesn't depend on everything including the kitchen sink, but most don't have to and shouldn't.

Overall, I say there is little to no real exposure because just installing gui tools should not start up any extra services. I mean, yes there are issues with remote X displays if your account or root on the remote machine are already compromised but... I put those pretty low on the list of what I worry about.

I have run X based tools on RHEL systems with under 500 total packages installed (my current laptop, with a modest desktop install.... almost 1800 packages.... )

Re:Apt-get install clue

[brabo_sd]

dos line endings, very good point. since it is very likely he will run into it, i just want to add 'cat -e file'. unix line ending will show like: string$ whereas dos line endings would probably look like: string^M$ you can use dos2unix, or checkout how tr and sed can do it, with the latter you have added benefit of making acquintance with some standard and often used nix tools.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[dna_(c)(tm)(r)]

Oracle works fine from the command line, installation included. I know, I've done it.

"discourage" does not equal "makes impossible", I didn't say GUI is required...

PostgreSQL is free, no money burning required.

It is an equation, not a pricelist: (Budget = Oracle licence fees + paying people) or (Budget = Zero fees for PG + paying people), more to spend on competent people.

Hadoop is not a database server.

Did I say that?

Re:Apt-get install clue

[TheCarp]

Nice. I know there are multiple ways to skin this cat, I already mentioned file. My problem is always that I can't remember them. Apparently ":set list" in vim also turns the line endings into '$' chars.

Now if I can just remember that the next time I suspect I may be dealing with one of these issues. :wq

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Stuarticus]

Video encoder settings with ffmpeg are pretty intimidating, but they are pretty intimidating if you're given all the options in a GUI as well, in both cases presets are there for a reason, as is the manual.

Re:Apt-get install clue

[Xtifr]

Having a centralized GUI monitor in the NOC is something that's been around since the '90s, if not longer. That still doesn't require GUIs on the server. The monitor system communicates with the servers with something like SNMP (Simple Network Management Protocol), and can usually be heavily customized to run all sorts of scripts on the servers.

Of course, for some guy running a lone server, a system like this is complete overkill. But that's an edge case.

Self-hosted for development

[DavidClarkeHR]

As a development environment, I'm not sure why you're not willing to go with a cheap, $200 local/self-hosted server. If you really need to test it online, you could set it up to host to the web, access it over the web, save yourself the monthly hosting fee, and install/configure it how you like.

Re:Self-hosted for development

[PlusFiveTroll]

Why do that, my way over powered windows box can run 4 virtual servers with 2GB of ram each with plenty to spare. Just download VirtualBox and setup a test server on your own machine. Should work exactly like a VPS

Re:Self-hosted for development

[xaxa]

I'll try and make the first useful comment of the discussion (so, it has nothing to do with the article).

I've been using Vagrant to manage development VMs. It automates using VirtualBox. There's an example on that homepage:
$ vagrant box add base http://files.vagrantup.com/lucid32.box
$ vagrant init
$ vagrant up
which leaves you will a running Ubuntu lucid install. Apart from the once-only download of the base image, it takes about 15 seconds to do this.

I've customised the vagrant configuration and added Puppet scripts, so it takes about 30 seconds to bring up my base box (which includes Apache, Tomcat, etc), download the software I've written from a Maven repository, and deploy it to Tomcat. My colleagues have a clone of the base box I produced

The operations team are in the process of producing a set of Puppet scripts for the production (UAT, etc) servers. Once they've done that, I'll make my Vagrant VM a reasonable derivation of the live environment.

Another tool, veewee, automates producing Vagrant boxes. I've not had time to look at this myself, but as far as I can see it automates setting up a VM (configuring discs, network, etc) and installing an OS, then exporting the resulting drive. I don't need many different host environments, but if you were testing some software against many different Linuxes or otherwise frequently installing Linux on VMs it could be useful.

Re:Self-hosted for development

[hduff]

I'll try and make the first useful comment of the discussion (so, it has nothing to do with the article).

I've been using Vagrant to manage development VMs. It automates using VirtualBox. There's an example on that homepage:
$ vagrant box add base http://files.vagrantup.com/lucid32.box

Can it handle anything other than Debian-based distros? The web site seems silent on that.

What .box choices are available?

Re:Self-hosted for development

[xaxa]

I've only used Ubuntu in it, but a colleague set up something with RedHat. I think he made the base box himself, rather than using something publicly available. That is, he made an extremely minimal install of RedHat, then followed the instructions on what's required -- adding a specific username with an SSH key and adding VirtualBox guest tools so it can mount a directory from the host. (Possibly removing certain temporary files -- I think Ubuntu caches the network card MAC address, so that file needs removing.) Vagrant can then package that up.

There's also a list of community-made ones here: http://www.vagrantbox.es/ (I've not used any of these.)

You might find Veewee useful if you want to generate a base .box yourself. The colleague got this working, I think quite easily, but we don't really need it so I didn't look myself.

Seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux has plenty of remote desktop software. 5 minutes with google would have revealed your choice of VNC, NX, or (my favourite) X11rdp.

Grow a pair and read some man pages

[earlzdotnet]

What exaclty were you expecting? If you want your server to be all setup for you, you'll buy a managed server, and pay a hefty price-premium for them holding your hand the whole time. If you want to save money, then you'll read some man pages and tutorials and figure out how to set it up on your own. Also, if you think you "need" a GUI on your server, then you obviously aren't all that well experienced with server management. If you really can't do any of this on your own, hire a sysadmin. Any sysadmin worth their weight in salt know how to use a linux command line to setup something as easy as PHP and Apache. Hell, most VPS services these days provide template VPSs with these services already setup

Re:Grow a pair and read some man pages

[Flourpower]

I'm self taught in Linux server management and definitely not experienced with server management but I'm willing to try, make mistakes and learn enough to get me going. I consider myself a Linux noob (I'm from the Windows world) and my interest is programming a game not having to administer a server, but I want to set it up myself not have it managed.(once it's setup then I'll gladly pass it over to professionals). I've got my own Ubuntu PC at home and use it to make mistakes on rather than the VPS. I didn't install a GUI; that was a passing thought of madness though I did that on the server at home. As you said, most of the services are already setup and its been really easy. I've used Webmin in the past but Ubuntu and Webmin don't play nicely. My point in writing this article was to explain what it's like for me and I'll eat up al the advice (well not the nasty emails). that people here can give. The article appearing here on Slashdot was a very big surprise to me.

Why is this here?

[neorush]

What in the world is this crap? I think anyone here who doesn't know:
A. What a VPS is.
B. How to configure a VPS (a.k.a SERVER ).
Does know how to use Google. WTH editors.

Re:Why is this here?

[nschubach]

As much as I'd love to agree... (though, I still mainly agree with the "Google it" suggestion)... There are new people coming along all the time that may not know how to configure a VPS or even know what it is. Even in my day job I find that I have to explain things over and over again to the new people that have never dealt with something. I can't expect that everyone I talk to in my field knows everything I do and I may have to re-iterate some of my knowledge from time to time.

Wow, just wow.

[VortexCortex]

and there's no remote desktop with a Linux server.

HAHAHAHAHA. Oh? You're serious? ALLOW ME TO LAUGH HARDER!

Re:Wow, just wow.

[Ubi_NL]

Translation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System

You can access x windows via windows using putty

Re:Wow, just wow.

[jonadab]

He means Linux distributions don't generally include an RDP server in their repository. Which is true, as far as it goes. (It's also obviously irrelevant to anyone with a few dozen hours of Linux administration experience, but it's true nonetheless.)

What he actually needs is an ssh client for his Windows desktop. (Or a VNC server on the server and a VNC client on the client, but if his network connection has much latency at all the ssh option is going to have overwhelmingly superior performance.) But Windows users often don't know about ssh because, like almost everything else, Windows doesn't come with it.

Re:Wow, just wow.

[Xtifr]

He means Linux distributions don't generally include an RDP server in their repository. Which is true [...]

$ apt-cache search xrdp
xrdp - Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) server

ORLY? Let me know what crappy distro you're using, so I can make a point of avoiding it. Ubuntu sure ain't one: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=xrdp

(Of course, we both agree that RDP isn't the right solution, but that's a secondary issue.)

Re:Wow, just wow.

[H0p313ss]

and there's no remote desktop with a Linux server.

HAHAHAHAHA. Oh? You're serious? ALLOW ME TO LAUGH HARDER!

Indeed, that's where I stopped reading too. That said, teaching noobs to use X and/or VNC is almost as much fun as drinking pan galactic gargle blasters, and convincing windows hacks that you can do anything useful with a command line is even worse.

Re:Wow, just wow.

[jonadab]

Huh.

Okay, so I was wrong. (Well, behind the times at least.)

Slashdot has died

[h4rr4r]

Slashdot is dead, and this is its rotting corpse.

WTF, I see why Taco left.

No remote desktop in linux? Oh teh noes might have to use SSH like a big boy.

Re:Slashdot has died

[xaxa]

Slashdot is dead, and this is its rotting corpse.

Where shall we all go, then?

WTF, I see why Taco left.

No remote desktop in linux? Oh teh noes might have to use SSH like a big boy.

That's not the best bit. From the fine^W fucking article:

This is very handy if you don’t like the terminal file editor Vi (or Vim), as WinSCP provides an easier way to edit config files.

and this:

I started on PCs back in the pre-Windows days when DOS command line was the only game in town, but honestly, trying to navigate around a directory tree from a command line is a bit tedious! With WinSCP, it becomes easier as you get a higher-level view of the folder structure.

This bit's odd:

Interestingly, the Linux VPS seems about 10 times faster than the same spec Windows VPS.

(I don't mind the guy having his blog, and everyone starts learning somewhere. There's just no way it belongs on /., let alone the front page! I wonder if chose to write it, thinking it was useful, or was told to write it for Dice?)

Re:Slashdot has died

[Dwedit]

There is remote desktop, it's called "tightvncserver".

Re:Slashdot has died

[hackshack]

>> Slashdot is dead, and this is its rotting corpse.
> Where shall we all go, then?

'Tis truth. But... who shall bell the cat?

Ever since Taco left, I find that I've been patching together select RSS feeds from other sites for my nerd news fix. But RSS lacks one thing: Slashdot commenters, for better or for worse.

Sometimes the discussion on /. degenerates into a bunch of shit-flinging monkeys, but dammit, they're our shit-flinging monkeys. Don't forget, editors: Slashdot is user-driven and the readers are the ones who submit the articles. How many submissions were rejected so that this article from Mr. I-can-barely-use-SSH could appear on the front page?

I feel like, somehow, the editors lost a lot of technical savvy in the last year and are now incapable of properly judging submissions. Or have we hemorrhaged so many good submitters that this is the best they've got to pick from?

Sigh, really?

[ledow]

I hope this is a joke.

I already gave up on Slashdot once, and kept an eye on it and the quality visibly improved for a while.

If this is the level of crap that we're going to post, I'm happy to abandon the whole site again. I didn't miss it much for its absence.

P.S. If people here don't already know what a VPS is, how to run one, or how to pick holes in that article, this isn't the kind of website I want to frequent, and that's the USERS. The editors / posters? They should know better, ffs.

So far, an article on "Business Intelligence", a video about a fecking jacket, and this article have been enough to undo 10+ years of coming here.

Re:How did this subject ended on /. frontpage ???

[kc67]

Steamlined from Dice... Slashdot is going downhill :(

This article/question seriously hurts my feelings

[Anonymous Coward]

As a slashdotter of about 10 years, I am seriously hurt that this made it to front page. I have made numerous submissions over that period of time, all of which I thought were unique, fresh and informative. None of them ever made it to the front page. Now this cotton-picking moron gets front page exposure? I might not be coming back to this site for a while :/

Remote Desktop for Linux

[n17r0u6]

Install freenx - http://www.humans-enabled.com/2012/05/how-to-install-freenx-on-ubuntu-1204.html
Use NX Client for Windows - http://www.nomachine.com/download-package.php?Prod_Id=3835

Re:Remote Desktop for Linux

[guruevi]

NX is no longer what you think it is. (Speaking from recent experience) The latest NoMachine clients are not entirely compatible with FreeNX and previous versions of NX (probably on purpose). There is a manual patch you can apply but it's not 1, 2, 3 finished as it used to be unless you pay for the commercial version. SSH+X is easier to set up imho.

Re:Remote Desktop for Linux

[Pav]

X2Go... uses the FreeNX libraries and is more or less its spiritual successor.

SSH

[hobarrera]

Use SSH. If you're stuck with windows on the client side, just install cygwin.
Why is this on the frontpage? Is it meant to be a "ask slashdot"? Or just really lame news?

Re:SSH

[StueyNZ]

Or if Cygwin is too much work.....try installing FireSSH

Re:SSH

[berashith]

or if that is not enough work, install virtualbox with a similar distribution of Ubuntu as your VPS. Then do it again. Now you have two platforms to use a real shell and ssh. Why two? because you need practice to not kill access to the VPS. Use one of these as your access VM, use the other to edit away and never worry about losing any real work.

Am I at the right website?

[pengc99]

I don't understand why this is on the front page on SLASHDOT

Re:Am I at the right website?

[Revotron]

Sorry, the DNS lines must have gotten crossed. This is actually Yahoo! Answers.

Easy..

[Saxen]

Webmin

Dumbest Article Ever

[Revotron]

Let me transpose this article to emphasize just how incredibly stupid this submission is:

Hey guys, I'm a game developer and my computer doesn't run things that I need to use to develop games. So I bought a new computer. You see, a computer is a machine that runs software and computes things for you. It has a mouse, a keyboard, and a monitor. Some computers are big, but others are small. For instance, the computer I bought has 4GB of memory. That is more memory than other computers that have 2GB. When you buy a computer, it's maybe 90% set up for you, but you need to install the remaining 10% of things that you'll use and change the settings so it runs the way you like it. Computers are so neat.

This article isn't even asking a fucking question. It's just somebody telling the Slashdot crowd what a VPS is. What the fuck?

Re:Dumbest Article Ever

[hduff]

Let me transpose this article to emphasize just how incredibly stupid this submission is:

Hey guys, I'm a game developer and my computer doesn't run things that I need to use to develop games. So I bought a new computer. You see, a computer is a machine that runs software and computes things for you. It has a mouse, a keyboard, and a monitor. Some computers are big, but others are small. For instance, the computer I bought has 4GB of memory. That is more memory than other computers that have 2GB. When you buy a computer, it's maybe 90% set up for you, but you need to install the remaining 10% of things that you'll use and change the settings so it runs the way you like it. Computers are so neat.

Are you Ric Romero?

Late to the party?

[Gothmolly]

What geek DOESNT have a VPS, or at least an Amazon instance that you can fire up from time to time?

Re:Late to the party?

[Unknown Lamer]

I don't, but then again I have a quarter cab filled with servers ;)

if we're at this point already...

[voot545]

any competent alternatives? I like coming here to learn things...

SSH and PuTTY...

[Anonymous Coward]

are your friends...for common adminsitrative tasks, that's all you need.

I don't understand your question

[Omnifarious]

I've run Linux at home for ages. I use my Linux computer at home for email, development, and a whole host of other things. I don't need a remote desktop. The whole concept of one is completely foreign to the Linux world. Nobody would ever make one because the idea is pointless in a Linux environment.

ssh and the command line are all you really need, and they are significantly more flexible and powerful than any GUI I have used. And if you really need a GUI, that's what X11 is for. X11 is completely network transparent. You can run an X11 program on any random computer and have it display just fine on your desktop.

I don't know how to find a good X11 'server' (yes, the thing that runs on your desktop and actually pushes pixels around on behalf of GUI programs is a 'server' because it performs services (manipulating your display) on the behalf of clients) for Windows is. But you should investigate and get one if you really must have a GUI.

I actually find Windows reliance on remote desktops to be really primitive and constraining. Whenever I try to mess with how Windows is supposed to work through a GUI I'm always left wondering what really just happened. So many little invisible things and no way to really see how they all interact. You just have to trust the partial fiction displayed to you to be a reasonable reflection of the underlying reality. It's very frustrating and cumbersome.

Re:I don't understand your question

[Pav]

X2Go is more efficient than X, it can allow control of a remote desktop, a single application or even proxy Windows Remote Desktop. It also allows sharing of files and printers,and it's all tunnelled over ssh so there is no need to open up another port. There are valid reasons why you'd want to do this eg. you want to run your favourite Linux GUI app on your work Windows/Mac desktop.

Re:I don't understand your question

[Omnifarious]

I've never heard of 'X2Go'. Is it available with source code? Or do I have to trust someone not to keylog all my interactions with an X application that uses it?

Re:I don't understand your question

[Omnifarious]

Google is my friend... sometimes. *sigh*

So, I went and looked it up myself, and it's an Open Source fork of NX, which started its life as Open Source then was closed. Yay! I shall have to check it out sometime. NX was an excellent idea for making X much faster over high-latency networks. I'm pleased it's seeing the light of day again.

There is an RDP server for linux

[Wokan]

Install xrdp on the server. It allows you to connect to a Linux server using the Windows RDP client. Just make sure you have a secure tunnel to the virtual server to work in.

We all started some where.. Keep learning!

[skade88]

This is the basic stuff we all started with at some point in our Linux server lives. Good on you for making the jump from Windows to Linux. It can be a big change from the hand-holding Microsoft has forced on you, but keep at it and you will find a whole new powerful world of computing open up to you. If its from the power of regular expressions in VIM and Grep or the simplicity of LVM and everything in between, you will find your Linux experience will open your eyes to a whole new world you never knew existed.

Re:30 posts

[spire3661]

This is a forum level post, not a front-page Slashdot level.

Re:Do not bounce

[geminidomino]

Don't anthropomorphize your daemons. They hate that!

Re:30 posts

[Revotron]

This is akin to someone writing into Car & Driver asking,

"HOW TO DRIVE CAR???? PLZ HELP!!"

Thanks for the information

[lsolano]

A VPS is just an Internet-connected computer. "Virtual" means it may not be an actual physical computer, but a virtualized host, one of many, each running as if it were a real computer.

I did not know that and I bet, almost no one here on /. either.

Graphical access to your Linux VPS

[dowdle]

I'm a long time OpenVZ user. I don't know if your "VPS" is a container or a full-blown VM running under KVM or Xen... but if you want graphical access to a desktop environment I'd recommend using xrdp. xrdp is an RDP service for Linux. xrdp uses VNC underneath but it is transparent to the user who uses any RDP client they like. Many distros package xrdp.

I've used xrdp on physical systems, KVM virtual machines, and inside of OpenVZ containers and it seems to work equally well.

If you have a very limited set of packages installed, you'll probably have to install a desktop environment first. Get to know your package manager from the command line... rpm/dpkg or yum/apt-get.

Re:That's an odd...

[Nuke Bloodaxe]

You are right, it is a mere part of the original dice article at: http://news.dice.com/2012/12/10/linux-virtual-private-server/ . It also does not help that the HowTo was written by someone who really does not fully well know what they are doing, and it is this sort of thing that catches out people trying to learn how to do things properly. What would help, though, would be if the guy actually got someone who knew what they were doing, and added those bits to his article so it was more complete [this is where a more collaborative blog is essential.]

For the record my first VPS was a pretty interesting beast at nosupportvpshosting.com, where you have to know what you are doing or suffer the consequences [I quite like them because they keep out of your way, plus I use it mainly for self-education purposes.] The HowTo at dice pretty much glosses over the security issues with a non-adequate solution in my opinion [if you have seen the nasty stuff flying around recently then you'll know what I mean.]

SSH is insecure?

[hawguy]

In the linked article, the author says:

Logging in to the root account, even over SSH, is potentially a little risky. If a key-logger gets installed on my desktop PC or a hacker breaks the password, then it’s game over. It’s possible to configure SSH on the server to use a public key/private key for remote logging, so I’m looking into setting that up.

Why is a a key-logger an issue for SSH, but not for whatever mechanism he'd use to manage a Windows server?

Logging on as root is risky, but not because of a keylogger - if he'd logged on with a non-root account that has sudo access, he wouldn't be any more secure. Using SSH public/private keys is definitely a good idea, but if someone has been able to install a keylogger on your computer, then there is no reason to think that they can't also grab your SSH keys and the passphrase to the keys.

Re:SSH is insecure?

[h4rr4r]

I like how he is looking into setting up something that takes less than 5 minutes to do. Maybe next he will look into that new fangled google thing all the kids are talking about.

Re:SSH is insecure?

[synapse7]

WTF happened to posters linking the source? Somebody MOD+ parent with source.

Re:SSH is insecure?

[synapse7]

Ha, missed clicked..

--fail

Linux does have a RDP server

[bmsleight]

www.xrdp.org
Works very well.

It is a wonder...

[drkich]

It is a wonder Linux has such an image problem with anyone, but the converted. Granted this article may not be the best, but let's do a quick google search for the actual article that the poster is refering to:

http://news.dice.com/2012/12/10/linux-virtual-private-server/

David Bolton talks about what he did. Good or bad, he documents it and shares it with his readers.

What do I read here, explatives, degrading remarks, and just plain snobbery. Here and there are some useful remarks. What I was hoping is to read a helpful discussion on what he recommends/did and what could be done better and how. There is so much vitriol to sort through, I don't even bother.

Pathetic.

Re:It is a wonder...

[skade88]

Can't we all just get along?!

Re:It is a wonder...

[andydread]

dammit... +5 insightful.. i wish I had mod points.

Re:It is a wonder...

[h4rr4r]

Maybe because slashdot.org is not the place for this kind of BS?

If this was Dummies.com or keyboardsscareme.com then I could see it. If you do not know what you are doing I highly recommend not showing that to everyone by making a webpage about your ignorance.

Re:It is a wonder...

[godrik]

This is not an help website. This is a technews site. As in, it is a newspaper. Some random guy does not know how to use a tool and it somewhat got posted here. Clearly the guy could learn. But somewhat it got posted here.

There is nothing interesting in what he has to say. He even explain how to measure the time a page took to generate in php. Seriously, some one here that might care does not know how to do that?

The guy is clueless and still somehow got posted on slashdot.

Re:It is a wonder...

[rHBa]

Exactly. An analogue would be going to vogue.com and saying:

"I just moved from Velcro to shoe laces but couldn't work them out at first so I wrote this blog article in case any of you guys at Vogue Magazine hadn't worked them out yet".

Fair enough, there are probably many mouth breathers who still need help tying their shoe laces but I doubt that would include anyone who is a regular at Vogue.

Post submitter...

[Last_Available_Usern]

Is he related to the singer?

Re:Post submitter...

[gmhowell]

Is he related to the singer?

That copycat? Fuck him. Let him change his name.

My Solution

[NEDHead]

When faced with Virtual Management issues, I hire a Virtual Manager! They never show up for work, but they never complain either.

Get off the cloud

[Splat]

This is the type of guy who will store his source code in the cloud, then act surprised when his VPS company crashes and he loses all his data.

Get off the cloud man, you clearly have no idea what you're doing and will pay dearly for it in the long-run.

Re:Why I Use A Hosted Solution

[h4rr4r]

At least you are smart enough in the ways of server administration to not embarrass yourself on the front page of slashdot.

wtf... seriously: wtf?

[l3v1]

I've been reading /. for some years now.

When I read this post, first I thought it was some kind of joke.

Then I started to feel the urge to hit someone, really hard.

Seriously people, how the heck does a beginner's beginner's noob's writing like this land on /.?

Teenage Linux beginner bloggers do better than this.

You people need to reset your quality checking methods, and fast.

Re:wtf... seriously: wtf?

[Anomalyst]

I've been reading /. for some years now
You people need to reset your quality checking methods, and fast.

You purport not to be new here.
At what point in your years of reading have you seen qualty (or any other kind of) checking?

VNC

[SuseLover]

X11vnc on the server and vncviewer on the client. There, your headless server can now run a GUI desktop for you.

SERIOUSLY??

[Anonymous Coward]

Front page news?!?!?!?!?!

Obvious answer

[Vrtigo1]

If you don't know linux, why not just get a Windows VPS and install PHP? Just because you want to use PHP does not mean you have to use Linux.

Re:Obvious answer

[h4rr4r]

Just pay someone.
PHP on IIS just means someday soon you will be migrating to Apache. At least use Apache on windows. At which point you might as well use linux.

Re:Obvious answer

[Vrtigo1]

Apache on Windows is still Windows. You don't have to learn how Linux works so you can concentrate your effort on things that are driving your bottom line instead.

Re:Obvious answer

[h4rr4r]

If you have a bottom line, pay to have it hosted and managed.

If you knew enough to host windows servers you would not have trouble getting apache up and running. Instead you get some desktop jockey thinking installed server 2008 makes him a sysadmin. That lasts until the first thing breaks.

Re:Obvious answer

[1s44c]

Just pay someone.
PHP on IIS just means someday soon you will be migrating to Apache. At least use Apache on windows. At which point you might as well use linux.

Time for a shameless NGINX plug - It's apache without the mess.

Although just use apache is you need cgi, cgi/fastcgi wrappers suck.

Re:Obvious answer

[Vrtigo1]

OP posted as though he's a one man show trying to gear up for a new development cycle. Most one man shows aren't cash rich and I suspect they don't want to pay for managed hosting for a dev environment and I figured removing Linux from the equation significantly reduces the barrier to entry for PHP.

That withstanding, there are a number of other problems with this, I just attacked the one at the top of the pile.
Running apache/php on Windows isn't the ideal environment as most php support will be focused on linux
Running dev on a public VPS is questionable, just throw it in virtualbox or vmware on your dev box until you have a working product
And, yes, desktop jockey sysadmins are never a good idea, especially for something public facing. The "and Linux doesn't support remote desktop" comment in the article pretty much nails this as a really bad person to be running a Linux server.

In Other News...

[Zalbik]

In other news:

"Some Random Moron writes: 'For my reading of email, I've hit a point where I need a PC. (For more on this see My Search for Email Clients Begins.) I initially chose a Windows 7 PC because I know Windows best. A PC is just a "personal computer". "Personal" means it is an actual physical computer, running as if it were a real computer. "Computer" means it's an actual physical computer, running as if it were a real computer. Recently, though, I've run into a dead end, as it turns out that Windows 7 doesn't support Sparrow. So I switched to a Linux PC running Ubuntu desktop 12.04. Since my main smartphone runs iOS, the options to access my mail are initially quite limited, cause I'm a moron, and don't know how to use google. Though I pretend to be a web developer, I'm entirely outside my comfort zone if there isn't a big bold "easy button" for any trivial task I attempt, even when that task has been solved, posted about, blogged about, and had software specifically written to solve my exact issue. The main problem with a PC is that you have to self-manage it. It's maybe 90% set up for you, but you need the remaining 10%. You may have to install some software, edit a config file or two and occasionally bounce (stop then restart) daemons (Linux services), after editing their config files.'"

Seriously....can't remote into a Linux server? WTF?

Worst. Slashdot. Article.

[Alex Belits]

Ever.

Slashdot: News for Nobody.

[HaZardman27]

Nobody on Slashdot should need this article.

Re:Slashdot: News for Nobody.

[1s44c]

Nobody on Slashdot should need this article.

I should have just modded you up instead of posting.

Faster perhaps, but better?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you done manual partitioning of gpt partitions (no fdisk)? Do you really enjoy cutting and pasting hugh block numbers around? Is there anything that is a fraction as intuitive as gparted?

While I still drop out to a command line for 1/3rd of my copy commands, when plucking 12 "unlike files" out of a directory of many and placing them in a another, CTRL-clicking them feels noticably faster than typing them or playing with expressions to try to pick them out of the noise...

If the server served printers (though I doubt the poster's does), I have to admit the graphical cups interface is nice....

So is it still time to raise our fists in the air and shout: Yggdrasil 94 forever!

Or are we turning the corner on intuitive command line replacments?

We know how to use a linux virtual server

[1s44c]

We know how to use a Linux virtual server. We have been using them since they came with 80 meg of ram, tiny amounts of bandwidth and tiny amounts of storage.

There is no story here.

What next? Running stories about how you can search for text in files with a command called grep?

Re:Wow!

[1s44c]

SOunds like a typical linux setup. Config file this and that and an entire weekend gone and nothing to show for it.

Takes like 10 minutes on my WIndows boxen

If it takes you 10 minutes to install the botnet clients and malware you must have a seriously slow internet connection.

Re:I'm actualy considering leaving Slashdot

[1s44c]

What has happened? It used to be so nice place to be.

I admire your long term memory. You remember 15 years ago like it was yesterday.

Re:Why I Use A Hosted Solution

[1s44c]

There are a number of reasons for the choice, but the most basic one is that I have spent, literally, months trying to maintain the services that I need with an Ubuntu server box, and I spend minutes getting the same result with the Mac

What services take months?

Asking a couple of weeks too late.

[Frederico Camara]

According to the Slashdot article below, "A couple of weeks ago you had a chance to ask Canonical Ltd. and the Ubuntu Foundation founder, Mark Shuttleworth, anything about software and vacationing in space."

What bad luck you're asking it now.

http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/12/09/1828238/mark-shuttleworth-answers-your-questions?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed

Fuck this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear slashdot editors, please forward this onto corp if it was upmodded enough to notice.

Because of this article pushed through geek.net, I am blocking all of your ads for one month.

That article is total drivel and crap. I don't care if you thought it was good. I don't care what demographic some idiot thought they were getting out to.

It's so dumbed down and idiotic as to be offensive. It isn't a legitimate slashdot. It isn't a legitimate ask slashdot as evidenced by the offsite link. It isn't even really a question. It's a shitty attempt to get us to click through to a crappy article with a crappy question written by someone who evidently can't even use google or IRC correctly.

Fuck your slashvertisements.

Re:Fuck this.

[MrLizardo]

For the last week or so I've been considering dropping slashdot from the list of news sites I follow but this article pretty much pushed me over the edge. I've been reading since 1998 but it really has taken a turn for the worse lately. Maybe the editors will turn things around with fresh articles that haven't already been posted with better commentary days earlier on other sites, but I'm not holding my breath.

Some ideas

[davydagger]

"the options to access the VPS are initially quite limited, and there's no remote desktop with a Linux server."
http://www.openssh.org/ - this goes on your server

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html - this goes on your windows 7 desktop

This is how linux works
https://code.google.com/edu/tools101/linux/basics.html

most configs are text files you edit

http://www.lagmonster.org/docs/vi.html

thats vi.

or nano learn to use this too
http://www.nano-editor.org/

updates are done with apt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Packaging_Tool

http://packages.ubuntu.com/ - packages you can find by looking through ubuntu's web catalouge. Yes there is a search function.

Thats the polite way of saying RTFM. In a previous life, I'd call you an idiot.

In this life, it sounds like your in need of a full time sys admin, and I'm your man.

Re:Why I Use A Hosted Solution

[ios and web coder]

It was a question of configuring it for multiple services, including the various Atlassian suites and a couple of VCSes. Also, I have a day job, so this was all being done on the weekend.

My weekend time is precious. I need it to write code; not administer servers.

Re:I'm actualy considering leaving Slashdot

[twistedcubic]

Ten years ago I blocked Slashdot at the firewall. Ten years later I'm still reading, and it sucks even more. And I even have a good job. Damn, just realized I need therapy.

Good opportunity

[Balthisar]

For all the grief everyone is giving the guy, it's a good opportunity for him to learn Linux. I'll even offer a "better" learning experience that doesn't screw up a needed VPS: Amazon EC2 free tier micro instances. Free for the first year after you sign up. Screw up the machine? Terminate it and start from scratch. Know what you're doing now or are advanced? Don't trash the image; fix it.

It's a fast way to learn other Linuxes, too. Just today I found myself reading the YUM man page because all I'd ever used in the past was apt.

My work here is...

[Tactical Lime]

I was gonna spend some mod points on these comments but they are already modded right to the edge of space.

My personal fave..."apt-get install clue", priceless.

Seriously though, don't they make paperback dummies guides for this kinda shit now-a-days?

Just one point

[Peter (Professor) Fo]

If you edit a text file you know what you've done. For a sysadmin that's quite important. With a GUI 'things happen'. Are your changes in one file or a dozen? When will the next be backed-up. If you restore some of them and not the others then what? I really like tools I can point a mouse at to flip a switch rather than having to trawl through acres of 'documentation' and then test hoping I've got the case-sensitive flags right and the actual version matches the docs or is compatible with foo, but for sysadmin work you need to learn tricky text files that are the links in the chain you lead your tiger by.

Install a server OS

[manu0601]

Install a server OS (I would pick NetBSD, Debian or Slackware is nice if you are a Linux person), administer over SSH. It will be painful learning at the beginning, but you will not regret it once you will be a knowledgeable in Unix administration.

Hosting and VPS

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want a motorcycle without motor, you buy a bicycle, not a "motorcycle without motor".

If you want a VPS, it is because you want to control as much as possible.
If you want a "ready server", buy a hosting of this type, like a plesk panel.

Re:Why I Use A Hosted Solution

[ios and web coder]

Wow.

I'm absolutely fascinated that the original post was actually modded down to 0. It certainly doesn't bother me, as it was really just some basic stuff, but I figured that I'd add a bit of actual relevant content to the n00b-bashing and nerd-sunken-chest-thumping that was going on. I musta hurt someone's feelings, which certainly wasn't my intention. I appreciate someone spending a precious mod point to take a widdle slap at me.

It is quite amusing, nonetheless. We peeples are such crazy critters...

Re:30 posts

[bhiestand]

This is akin to someone writing into Car & Driver asking,

"HOW TO DRIVE CAR???? PLZ HELP!!"

Sadly, it's not even that good. It's more like someone publishing an article in Car & Driver that says: "I just got a motorized vehicle. It has a steering wheel and some pedal things. It moves in a jerky motion. It needs some sort of transmission system, but all I see is a stick with a bunch of letters and 'R' on it."