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Kazakhstan Wants Russia To Hand Over Their Baikonur Space City
Hugh Pickens writes writes "RIA Novosti reports that Kazakhstan and Russia are in talks over returning the city of Baikonur to Kazakhstan — the site of the first Soviet rocket launches and Russia's most important space launch center. Baikonur, built in Kazakhstan in the 1950s, is the main launch facility for the current generation of Russian rockets and was leased by Russia from Kazakhstan under an agreement signed in 1994 after the collapse of the Soviet Union. 'Today both nations' governments have decided to set up a new intergovernmental commission for the Baikonur complex to be headed up by first or other deputy prime ministers,' said Talgat Musabayev, head of Kazakhstan's space agency. At issue is control over Baikonur and the rent Russia pays Kazakhstan to use the facility, a subject of ongoing dispute between the two nations ever since Kazakhstan gained independence from the USSR. Earlier this year, Kazakhstan blocked Russia from launching several rockets from Baikonur in a dispute over a drop zone for debris and Kazakhstan insisted this must be covered by a supplement to the main rental agreement signed in Astana in 2004, extending Russia's use of the space center's facilities until 2050. Russia pays an annual fee of approximately $115 million to use the space center, which currently has the world's busiest launch schedule, as well as $50 million annually for maintenance. Russia and Kazakhstan are working to build a new space launch facility at Baikonur, called Baiterek, to launch Angara carrier rockets capable of delivering 26 metric tons of payload to low-Earth orbits but Russia intends to eventually withdraw from Baikonur and conduct launches from the Plesetsk Cosmodrome, an operating spaceport about 500 miles north of Moscow — and the unfinished Vostochny Cosmodrome in the Russian Far East."
They won't return it!
For a simple question: why should they?
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
like they did in georgia a few years back
Prepare for the onslaught of "In Soviet Russia ..." jokes.
Despite what EULAs say, most software is sold, not licensed.
I read this headline on Twitter, and it seemed that the submitter meant a hostile situation
"Russia intends to eventually withdraw from Baikonur and conduct launches from the Plesetsk Cosmodrome, an operating spaceport about 500 miles north of Moscow â" and the unfinished Vostochny Cosmodrome in the Russian Far East."
200 miles south of Arkhangelsk? Really?
As one moves further north, one loses the assist from the Earth's rotation. Launch anything easterly from the Equator, and you get slightly more than a 1,000 mile per hour boost to orbit. If you want to save fuel and cost, you try to launch from as far south as you can, which is why we launch from Florida instead of Cape Cod.
(24902 * cos(63))/24
24902=Circumference of the Earth
63=Latitude of the Plestsk Cosmodrome in degrees
24=Hours in a day.
471mph/758kph - it's the worst out of all of them.
Vostochny Cosmodrome is 51 degrees N. 653mph/1051kph
Baikonur is roughly 46 degrees North - 720mph/1160kph
Canaveral is 28.5 (roughly) - 912mph/1468kph
Centre Spatial Guyanais - 5 degrees N. 1034mph 1664kph - the ESA gets the biggest boost.
Unfortunately for the Russians, they don't have anything very far south. The furthest south they can go is the southern end of Dagestan at roughly the same latitude as New York City.
--
BMO
It was silly to give Kazakhstan independence in the first place.
What would Stalin have done?
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Especially because giving up Baikonur would force Russia to launch from higher latitudes, reducing their payload to orbit capacity for certain orbits.
I'm picturing a crusty old political geographer sitting up in one of his wingback chair and saying, a quavering voice, "Russia wants a warm water space port."
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
...and their goodwill toward continuing to allow us access to the space station, but we're dependent on the goodwill of another nation that has felt the presence of the Russians as a thorn in their collective sides for all these years?
Mr Musk, please get your capsule man-rated as soon as you can...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
All Russia has to do is threaten to move the facility. The space center is probably the area's only source of jobs. Russian just has to pretend he's Pappa John Pizza-man, and start firing people who are local because of the "onerous healthcare taxes" or something that Cossak-Stan is asking for.
Geeze. We need to get Fox News in Russia. Those guys are not corrupt enough.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
When they are done building the new launch center, turn the old one into a tourist destination. Space geeks from around the world would flock to see that and the Borat World amusement park next door.
Master Blaster runs Space City.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Looks like a protective cover to me.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Then there really would be "Americans" who could say "I can see Russia from my front porch!"
On the one hand you take life too seriously, and on the other, you do not take playful existence seriously enough. Seth
a prelude to the first war in space?
Are they crazy? Do they not read the Cheezburger site on Vladurday?
...In Soviet Russia, Baikonur leases YOU!
...In Soviet Russia, Bribery is run by the Government!
...In Soviet Russia, corruption is impeded by rocket launches!
...In Soviet Russia, 140% of people vote for TWO Baikonurs!
/. people. We have a reputation to maintain!
Meh...these aren't very good. Somebody please do better. This is
Great warrior...hrmph! Wars not make one great.
Didnt Georgia invade the independent countries Ossetia and Abkhazia first, so Russians had to come and protect Ossetia's and Abkhazias sovereignty, after recognizing their independence a few hours before?
As the US and other western countries demonstrated with Kosovo, recognizing some random regions independence from one of your geopolitical foes and then marching in to protect the newly granted independence is a valid practice according to international law.
Ossetia and Abkhazia have always been part of Georgia, but in the days of the USSR, it didn't matter who they belonged to as long as they were in the USSR. With independence, the regions are majority ethnic Russian and they didn't like being joined to an ethnic group (Georgian) who they regard as being something equivalent to rednecks or hillbillies in the USA. So they kicked all the ethnic Georgians out or killed them and proclaimed independence. Being on the border with Russia, Russia sent troops in officially as "peacekeepers" but in reality to prevent a weak Georgian military from re-taking them. But they belong to Georgia. Recognizing their independence is just a sham to justify the illegal action of basically stealing the territories from Georgia.
Kosovo is somewhat different in that genocidal warfare basically made many countries argue for independence as the only way to protect the citizens. There's nothing really analogous to this in Georgia as in Ossetia and Abkhazia they kicked out the non-Russians and the Russians were never in any real danger to begin with, although they like to claim that they were to justify kicking out the Georgians.
A bit off-topic. Can someone tell me what happens to the spent first stage boosters when they are jettisoned? Since Baikonur and Kazakhstan are land locked, I assume they just fall back to earth (not water)? Do people live down range of Baikonur in the drop zone? Thanks.
Conservative, mod down for violating
All other countries are run by little girls.
There Can Be Only One...
They should send Borat to ask Putin so space station make benefit glorious nation of Kazakhstan.
No good deed goes unpunished.
NASA is paying $60M a seat for 4 to 6 astronaut rides a year to the space station. Russia made money when they charged $20M for private astronauts.
Kazakhstan is a huge source of oil for the Chicoms.
If Russia invaded Kazakhstan, the Chicoms would wipe Russia off the face of the earth.
With what? Their 'aircraft carrier'? At present the PRC military can do two things: 1) prevent some other country from invading China and 2) prevent a popular Chinese uprising. They are not equipped and not skilled and not positioned for an aggressive war. Perhaps in a generation or two, but not at present.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
when will Alaska get back to it's owner ? you know, being drunk, you are not competent to perform legal acts etc...
I'm confused. Are you trying to describe Alaska under Russian ownership or Alaska under current management. Either way, you're correct.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
You assume that the Russian military is any better, but it's not. Among other things, Chinese military is all professional, Russian is mostly conscripts, and very poorly trained at that. As far as land and air forces go, at present, I'd bet on Russia over China. It might be different at sea (which is irrelevant for Kazakhstan), and of course Russia has its nuclear deterrent, but that's another matter.
"In Kazakhstan we have many hobbies: disco dancing, archery, rape, and table tennis".
"Especially because giving up Baikonur would force Russia to launch from higher latitudes, reducing their payload to orbit capacity for certain orbits."
This is also for the moment, the only place from where American and European astronauts are going to space.
Its not only a Buttfuckistan against WhoCaresistan bit.
It was built for high inclination polar orbit insertion, e.g. spy satellites. A more useful general purpose launch site is Svobodny. It was originally built to replace Baikonur but they ran out of money.
The Russian military has significantly more experience actually fighting than the PLA. You know, all those wars, Chechnya, Ossetia, Afghanistan.
If Chechnya is anything to go by, Soviet/Russian army didn't really learn much in Afghanistan. Ossetia was better, but there were still major flaws uncovered during the operation - and, frankly, regular Georgian army was simply not much of an opponent.
Not to mention significantly more advanced technology (there is a reason PLA copies Russian fighter planes, this is also why Russia no longer sells them).
Russia hasn't really had major tech advancements in military technology since Soviet Union dissolved. There were some improvements here and there, but it's lagging behind more and more with every year. Take fighter planes, for example - PAK FA has been dragging on for two decades now, and it's still not production-ready. In the meantime, Chinese have been steadily moving on from copying Soviet designs to making their own (based on those Soviet designs, yes - but improved with more modern tech etc). Right now they already have their own designs for things ranging from assault rifles (QBZ-95) to tanks (Type 79, 88, 96 and 99) to fighter planes (JH-7, J-10) - and are rapidly developing a 5th gen fighter, J-20. In other words, if China didn't overtake Russia technologically yet, it's a matter of a decade at most before that happens, given the present trends.
Of course, this is a moot point, because there is no way in hell China would take military action against anything Russian. It's just stupid -- the obvious political axis in the modern world is Russia & China against the US.
China is unlikely to take a military action against Russia in present situation, where their interests are indeed aligned. However, this can easily change, and we were discussing just such a situation. China is definitely encroaching on many countries that have historically been in Russian sphere of influence/interest, in Central Asia and elsewhere, so there is definite potential to spark conflict there. Even then I doubt it'd get to a real war, but proxy war by supporting various separatist/independence movements versus puppet governments in those Central Asian countries is not unlikely, and I could see covert but direct support from both sides, much like it was between USA and USSR in proxy wars in Africa.
Hmm both posts modded down. So nobody else watched Borat?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I believe it would be in Russia's interest to invest in and build a large sea launch capability. They could send rockets etc. from Vladivostok to just about any point on the equator of the Pacific ocean and it would increase their launch capabilities. By the way, the U.S. could also do this in the Pacific as well as the Atlantic!
My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!