Windows 8 Even Less Popular Than Vista

That's not the HTML you're looking for by Kazymyr · 2012-12-31 20:06 · Score: 5, Funny

Misses a "<"

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Will Microsoft call on Burson-Marsteller to fix it by sethstorm · 2012-12-31 20:06 · Score: 4, Interesting

It's not like they've not tried to clean the image of Microsoft when Vista was poorly received.

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It's not dead. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 20:09 · Score: 5, Funny

It's resting.

Re:It's not dead. by TemperedAlchemist · 2012-12-31 20:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

I imagine Microsoft may just release a patch that fixes everything into a "classic" view to gain more sales.
Re:It's not dead. by jhoegl · 2012-12-31 21:19 · Score: 4, Interesting

If they do, I will quickly look into Windows 8 for deployment at my job.
As it stands now, I wouldnt deploy it because it would cause too many headaches for tech support, teaching people how to use the Operating system.
Re:It's not dead. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-12-31 21:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

I imagine Microsoft may just release a patch that fixes everything into a "classic" view to gain more sales.
What amazes me is that(at least at time of writing) they don't even offer a group policy setting that lets their whiny corporate customers set all their definitely-not-touchscreen boring typingboxes to go directly to desktop by default.
It isn't terribly tricky to script an invocation of "explorer.exe shell:::{3080F90D-D7AD-11D9-BD98-0000947B0257}" on login; but the fact that they don't just offer a GPO setting to switch strongly suggests that somebody at Microsoft is hitting the kool-aide far harder than is advisable.
I just don't understand it. With Vista, the mystery was how they'd managed to get so little done in 6-odd years of development, the core product just kind of sucked. With Win8, they essentially have the (generally well-liked) base of Win7, with a bunch of modest improvements in various areas, and then Metro. All they'd have to do is make it optional(or get really crazy and have it default on or off depending on whether the device has a touchscreen or not...) and everybody would stop whining more or less immediately. It's just sort of baffling.
Re:It's not dead. by Runaway1956 · 2012-12-31 21:41 · Score: 3, Interesting

Retraining on Linux Mint with Mate desktop might be easier. I say "might" - I'm not real sure if all Windows users are retrainable.

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Re:It's not dead. by whoever57 · 2012-12-31 22:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

It isn't terribly tricky to script an invocation of "explorer.exe shell:::{3080F90D-D7AD-11D9-BD98-0000947B0257}" on login; but the fact that they don't just offer a GPO setting to switch strongly suggests that somebody at Microsoft is hitting the kool-aide far harder than is advisable.
At they highest levels of Microsoft, they are convinced that providing the same "user experience" to mobile users as desktop users will be Microsoft's salvation. Somehow they think that this will force adoption of mobile devices running Windows (they think that users will demand Microsoft mobile devices because they look the same as PCs). That's why they don't want to allow people to make PCs easy to configure such that they are different to mobile devices.

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Re:It's not dead. by deniable · 2012-12-31 22:59 · Score: 3, Informative

Just like they did for the Office ribbon? Microsoft rarely goes back. They'll tone it down, modify it or move on to something else.
Re:It's not dead. by RDW · 2012-12-31 23:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

"We hate features and like to pretend that Gnome classic doesn't exist" - The Gnome 3 Roadmap (Status: Implementation in progress).
FTFY
Re:It's not dead. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 23:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

Correct. The only way they think they can possibly win the smartphone/tablet markets now, is to leverage their Windows PC monopoly. The only way they can do that is to make the Windows PC look like the Windows smartphone/tablet, force people to get used to it, and then hope that will translate to a preference for Windows on the portable devices.
It's actually not a completely misguided strategy.
Well, it is misguided in that Microsoft should actually try to win markets by making better products. But they have never been good at that. Their entire success is based on leveraging their Windows PC monopoly, so this strategy is "do what works".
With any luck, all this will do is start the ball slowly rolling (if it isn't already) on the eventual decline of the PC stranglehold. People have predicted this many times before, but things are a bit different. Smartphones and tablets with iOS and Android are now a huge market and huge user base. OSX on the desktop is actually reaching a noticeable size. And Microsoft is doing their best to alienate ISVs who are increasingly looking to these other platforms (and even Linux-on-PC) to escape.
Re:It's not dead. by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2012-12-31 23:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

Gates said, that he "wanted to own the desktop." And he ended up doing it.
With Metro, Ballmer is saying that he wants to "own the user interface of everything." Traditional PCs, and also tablets, and phones. Since they already "own the desktop", they are starting their offensive there. And what other choice will an average user have, who buys a new PC? It will come with Windows 8, and Metro. If Microsoft can win the user interface war there, they hope tablets and phones will follow. A nice strategy for them, it sucks for us, getting stuck with a Metro that nobody really wants.
I personally believe that they are too late. Folks are hooked and happy with their Android and Apple gadgets, and won't switch over to Microsoft gadgets, just to have a common interface.
In fact, the whole thing could backfire for Microsoft. If the new user experience with Metro on PCs is negative, folks will definitely NOT want it on their gadgets.

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Re:It's not dead. by serviscope_minor · 2012-12-31 23:52 · Score: 5, Interesting

It isn't terribly tricky to script an invocation of "explorer.exe shell:::{3080F90D-D7AD-11D9-BD98-0000947B0257}" on login;
And this is why Linux will always fail on the desktop. While users have to type shit like that it will never be adopted to the masses and Windows will continue to... oh never mind.
I have actually now tried Windows 8: after my mother in law's computer broke I helped set up the new one.
Seemed a bit meh, to be honest. A bit of a random mishmash of two unrelated GUI concepts. Also she decided to remove most of the animated tiles because they're generally pointless (something I happen to agree on). We were both a bit baffled that some of them uninstall cleanly because they're "apps" and some take you to an apparently unrelated place in the new equivalent of add/remove programs because they're "programs" not "apps". It really feels like two operating systems which only barely work together.
A lot of weird stuff too, like having to find magic corners/edges that do things. It was kind of OK after a lot of random clicking around.
They also seem to have tried to implement a slightly confusing and rather ruimentary window management scheme of some sort for tiling or virtual desktops or something. It feels very primitive. I think I'll stick to fvwm.

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Re:It's not dead. by RDW · 2012-12-31 23:54 · Score: 5, Interesting

Astonishing isn't it? They've taken an excellent product (by MS standards) and done their best to bury it under a silly hybrid UI setup. Take 10 minutes to install Classic Shell, configure it to boot straight to the desktop (start menu enabled, hot corners disabled), re-register the file types that have been hijacked by Metro apps, and you have arguably the best conventional version of Windows to date - fast booting, integrated antivirus, upgraded task manager, ISO mounting, and a nice clean theme, etc.
Basically all the bad press could have been avoided if they'd made Metro and the start menu globally optional without third party solutions. IT departments (even if they get past the reviews) will take one look at the default configuration and its unpredictable switches between desktop and Metro, think support calls, and file the whole thing as 'Do Not Want'. That MS are already making noises about Windows Blue for 2013 suggests they've realised there's little chance of widespread corporate adoption for Windows 8.
Re:It's not dead. by mvdwege · 2013-01-01 00:02 · Score: 4, Funny

It isn't terribly tricky to script an invocation of "explorer.exe shell:::{3080F90D-D7AD-11D9-BD98-0000947B0257}" on login;
And ever since 2001 people have been telling me that that Linux thing would never catch on because it relied on too many arcane command invocations...

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Re:It's not dead. by thePowerOfGrayskull · 2013-01-01 00:26 · Score: 4, Informative

I imagine Microsoft may just release a patch that fixes everything into a "classic" view to gain more sales.
Indeed. Every day I spend with Win 8, I dislike it more. Tried to add a network printer, but it was not auto-detected in the new metro interface. However when I went the old route in the control panel to add a new printer, it was auto-detected immediately.
When such basic functionality is not working in the new interface (which one would assume is actually backed by the same underlying OS components), there's a real problem. This is aside from the unpleasantness of the interface itself, at least when using non-touch or wanting to actually multitask.
The only things going for it so far are the improvements to file transfer and the task manager program.
Re:It's not dead. by gbjbaanb · 2013-01-01 00:27 · Score: 5, Informative

it quite probably will, people buy a Windows 8 tablet and then find they cannot run Windows apps on it (as they bought the ARM version, 99% of consumers won't know the difference beyond the price, battery life, and the considerable weight of the Pro version).
BBC Click did a review of Win8, and you can expect them to be as impartial as you're going to get - certainly compared to the other reviews on sites that also have "sponsored by Microsoft" articles. They weren't too complimentary whilst still being polite (its at the start of the programme, first 7 minutes).
They also did a review of Surface - they did not like it, basically. (14 minutes in, 4 minutes long, just past the nice bit with the raspberry pi and Mike Powell at 9:30). they really showed how useless the keyboard is too - see 15:20 in for the demo....
Re:It's not dead. by jones_supa · 2013-01-01 00:44 · Score: 4, Interesting

Seemed a bit meh, to be honest. A bit of a random mishmash of two unrelated GUI concepts.
I was surprised that MS didn't convert the Windows Accessories (Notepad, Calculator, etc.) to Modern apps. And then the old Control Panel was left there, but some settings are still managed through the Modern UI. As the icing of the cake, the whole new UI is just butt-ugly. These kind of glaring issues leave quite a half-baked taste of Windows 8. It feels like they slapped on the Modern UI there, but weren't confident enough to polish the experience throughly.
Re:It's not dead. by Tough+Love · 2013-01-01 00:56 · Score: 2

New Coke. Need I say more.

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Re:It's not dead. by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2013-01-01 01:04 · Score: 3, Informative

That's just insulting. The back-office admin staff aren't the problem, it's those assclowns in sales and marketing. Trying to teach them anything new that involves thinking skills is a wasted effort.
Re:It's not dead. by Patch86 · 2013-01-01 02:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

Insulting how? I've worked in dead-end admin jobs before. Low wages, mostly staffed by 18 year olds and part time mothers. There were a lot of people there without a lot of IT skills, and they would most certainly not consider themselves to be "professional customer change of address people", etc. Profession implies a level of specialist knowledge and commitment that they would definitely not claim was required.
These are people who will require training if you change the tools you've given them to do their job. Being told "bugger off and learn how to use it in your own time somehow" is not going to cut it; and any IT department that thinks it will is full of idiots.
Re:It's not dead. by MysteriousPreacher · 2013-01-01 02:16 · Score: 5, Funny

Tell them it's a new life coaching/project management/quality methodology designed to align their deliverables with their metric milestones and increase partnership with cloud stakeholders.

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Re:It's not dead. by Simulant · 2013-01-01 02:47 · Score: 5, Interesting

What you say is true but even when we avoid the annoyances that Metro brings, the improvements in Windows 8 STILL aren't worth the cost and hassle of upgrading. Those of us who care about the truly useful improvements in Windows 8 have had access to free and decent workarounds for years. All-in-all, they are pretty minor improvements. I can find no must-have, killer feature in Windows 8.

Windows 8, minus Metro, would have made a great service pack though.
Re:It's not dead. by Cherveny · 2013-01-01 03:22 · Score: 2

Try http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ Makes a Windows 7 like start menu as the default start, rather than the hideous mess that is the Windows 8 start screen. Still easy to make it to metro start screen via charms. Can even configure it to be Win XP style instead, to be available in desktop mode but still start in metro view, and a number of other handy customizations.

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Re:It's not dead. by Alomex · 2013-01-01 03:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well, it is misguided in that Microsoft should actually try to win markets by making better products. But they have never been good at that. Their entire success is based on leveraging their Windows PC monopoly, so this strategy is "do what works".
Actually they kind of did for a while or at least they tried, until Dr. Dos came out and beat the crap out of MS-DOS. Microsoft execs gave the go ahead to include the "disable-if-Dr-Dos" codes and the troops got the message loud and clear: we don't need to make quality products, all we need to do is make Ok products and use the Microsoft monopoly position to take care of the rest.
But guess what happens when they don't own a market, such as Search or Mobile? People at Microsoft no longer even remember how one goes about making a quality product. Hence the many mediocre versions of Windows, Zune, Bing, and Mobile OSes.
Re:It's not dead. by Nerdfest · 2013-01-01 03:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

I think people are missing the point of the 'Metro' interface. It's not about the interface ... that's just the excuse. They want to lock down the software market and get a cut of all the sales, plus more control over what's installed. Metro will stay. The older interface will become less and less useful ... more and more crippled. They want what Apple has with iOS. Even Apple wants what they have with iOS and is doing the same thing with OS X.
Re:It's not dead. by redwraith94 · 2013-01-01 03:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

I am pretty sure it will. The arrogant folks of at M$ seem to not realize that they got to their position by giving the market enough of what it wanted for them to be worth any hassles. They are leveraging people too hard, and it does drive people away. What they should be doing is trying to slow the flow of R&D dollars to anything Android or IOS based as quickly, and effectively as possible (by pleasing the hell out of their current customer base), because when the ARM architecture catches up close enough behind Intel in terms of power, and large lightweight screen tablets are available for cheap, there really isn't a reason to pay them extra for windows at all. It's more likely at that point that Android will start seeing adoption in the PC space for the same reason M$ thinks it will happen in reverse...

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Re:It's not dead. by Gothmolly · 2013-01-01 04:56 · Score: 3, Funny

It isn't terribly tricky to script an invocation of "explorer.exe shell:::{3080F90D-D7AD-11D9-BD98-0000947B0257}" on login;
And Windows people claim Linux is "hard" because of its command line and .conf files?

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Re:It's not dead. by Billly+Gates · 2013-01-01 07:13 · Score: 2

There is no reason to use Linux for non technical users in 2013.
I personally think the reason so many linux zealots are that way is because they have not run Windows since Windows Me/98 with IE 5.5, and Office 97.
Windows sucked back then! It bluescreened and many neophytes simply did not sneeze or install software at all because of what it might do leaving the job to us. Word sucked terrible. I like to use tables for special formatting and I wonder if IE 6 used the word bugs and reproduced them as MS was serious about using .doc files to replace .htm back then? Things would break all the fucking time. It was terrible as I remeber spending 2x of my time on my resume fixing formatting bugs which then re-appeared when posting them on www.monster.com.
Shit crashed, you had limits of dos still in there, everyone ran admin, and I do not need to go further as I assume you were quite knowledgable in those days. I created billly gates as I hated MS for such terrible software. ... fastforward today
Windows XP and Windows 7 are rock solid, do not bluescreen, have an industrial VMS like kernel, are real operating systems. They just work. XP still has some issues with memory management and rebooting is required and occasional Windows rot, but Windows 7 suceeds Linux in many areas.
Office 2010 formatting is much better. Things just work today and Linux they do not. I can't just point and click, install and have it work out of the box. I also have to say IE is a darn good browser now! IE 10 has a HTML 5 score that is about 90% of Firefox so even if the corp has an IE acitiveX applet you can still have a worldclass browser. That was not surely the case a half decade ago.
Wake up. Windows is no longer the pice of crap it once was and unless you are a programmer why change from what works? 12 years ago I would have reasons to use Unix as wordperfect was still supported and it came with stuff and was stable. Today I tried Linux mint on my ATI raedon and it was unstable.

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Re:It's not dead. by semi-extrinsic · 2013-01-01 09:49 · Score: 2

Also, Windows protects your investment in expansive proprietary applications. Say, if you buy Matlab, you know you're going to keep it for a few years in your Windows, because Windows 7 has a 10 year life cycle. If you purchase one of these things for Linux, it'll break within 6 months when the developers change ABIs, move libraries around, or do any other of those thoughtful acts they always do.
This is pure FUD. My local university uses Matlab extensively on both Windows, Mac and Linux. If Matlab on Linux was a PITA and no-one was using it, I don't think they would keep paying $$$ for the license.

Similarly, at work I am using several expensive proprietary Linux applications on a bleeding-edge distro (ArchLinux), without a hitch. My colleagues are using the same on various other (new and old) distros. Off the top of my head, there's Matlab, Maple, Intel's fortran compiler, PGI's fortran compiler, 3D plotting software Tec360, and NIST Refprop.

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Incredible by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 20:09 · Score: 5, Interesting

I didn't think it was possible to make something worse than Vista, but Microsoft did it. They really are out of touch with consumers by trying to ram this crappy UI down their throats. Looks like there's a lot of resistance. 2012 wasn't a very good year for Microsoft. 2013 should be even worse.

Re:Incredible by symbolset · 2012-12-31 21:21 · Score: 2

Dynamically switching the end user between two different GUIs by default is an interesting design choice. Certainly not one I would have made. Allowing an advanced user to switch his GUIs on the fly, that's one thing...

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Re:Incredible by SuricouRaven · 2013-01-01 00:19 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think it's deliberate. MS knows the interface sucks, and are trying to ram it down, because even though users hate it doing to can advance Microsoft's long-term goals. They are accepting a bit of user hate in the desktop OS area (Where their position is almost unassailable) in order to promote their products in the new mobile arena, where they need every advantage they can get right now.
Re:Incredible by jones_supa · 2013-01-01 00:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

First of all, I agree that GUI + Terminal is a combination that works really well together. However it's not exactly same as switcing between Windows classic / Modern UI. You usually have the terminal emulator just as a normal application on your desktop, and you type things on its window the same way as to any other app. The analogue would be similar if you were switching to VTs from desktop and using the CLI there. That's clearly more painful.

It's just a big scam to make Windows 9 look good by CodeheadUK · 2012-12-31 20:10 · Score: 4, Interesting

People clung on to XP because Vista was crap, then dived on Win7 and declared it to be the best thing ever. Those same folks aren't going to give up 7 until the hardware support starts to die off, at which point Windows 9 will appear and the cycle will start again.

Assuming Microsoft are still around to make Win9 and we haven't all had to make the choice between OSX or Linux

Windows 8 blows by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 20:10 · Score: 3, Interesting

I use windows 7. Why would i buy or even steal windows 8. What do i get? A crappy use interface? I like my start menu thing. I dont need this tile crap.

Re:Windows 8 blows by EzInKy · 2012-12-31 21:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

Beyond DirectX 11.1 support, security. Fast start up and shutdowns.
So nothing really important then? If you can't stand to look at something you simply don't want it in your face.

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Re:Windows 8 blows by Luckyo · 2012-12-31 21:40 · Score: 3, Insightful

DX11.1 adds essentially nothing of value over DX11. DX9>DX11 added a huge amount of stuff that mattered.
Win7 is quite secure. Again, change from XP to Seven was huge, change from Seven to Eight is miniscule.
Lastly, do people even shut down their machines anymore for anything other then updates? Everyone I know hibernates their machines.
Re:Windows 8 blows by Runaway1956 · 2012-12-31 21:44 · Score: 2

Doesn't OpenGL work in the Windows world? I don't think it even cares what version of Windows you might be using.
http://www.opengl.org/wiki/Getting_Started

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Re:Windows 8 blows by Corbets · 2012-12-31 23:15 · Score: 3, Interesting

So, what you're saying is, you'll happily pay that Microsoft Tax, so that you can play games? Interesting . . .
So what you're saying is that people will pay money for in order to do something they want to do? Interesting...
Re:Windows 8 blows by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 23:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

> Fast start up and shutdowns.
I just tested with my brand new Core i3 with nothing fancy yet installed, start up takes 20 seconds until the desktop appears and not including typing my password. I won't consider this to be fast.
On the other hand, the Metro interface is a total disaster. I seriously considered downgrading to Windows 7. At the moment I decided to resist a bit more and spent one day customizing my interface (and kudos to ClassicShell for bringing me back the Start button).
For sure I won't assist my coworkers, as I have done for the last 10+ years, if they will buy a Windows 8 system. Not until they do the same customization I have done with my machine, which won't happen for sure. I am already suggesting everybody around me not to make the same mistake I did, and to stick with Windows 7.
And yes, I am really irritated.
Re:Windows 8 blows by ColdWetDog · 2013-01-01 03:22 · Score: 2

That's cuz you're not using DX11.1 - If you were you, would see magical flying unicorns.

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A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by ArcadeNut · 2012-12-31 20:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

1. The default UI was Metro.
2. They took my start button away.
3. Multi Monitor support was changed (Task bar now goes across all monitors).

While not major, it's still very annoying.

I know you can get utilities/hacks, etc... to fix this, but I shouldn't have to. At the minimum, they should have given options to turn them back on, even if they were off by default. So now they are trying to force their way of doing things on me.

Maybe they'll do better with Windows 9...but for now Windows 7 for me.

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Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 20:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

I have been using Win8 exclusively at work for almost 4 months now.
1. I thought this was a problem for a while but you stop noticing it after a while. Actually, I thought that I would not ever use any Metro apps but I now find that I keep the Metro messaging app docked to the side of one of my 4 screens. Very handy since it can't be overlaid by other apps no matter what happens and never occludes my desktop apps either. Win!
2. Start is still there, just think of the Metro UI as a giant animated start menu. Furthermore, the searching from the start screen is better than what we had in Win7. They also added a very useful admin menu thing Win-X which gives you quick access to stuff like command promts and admin prompts.
3. Multimonitor support in Win8 pisses all over Win7 from a great height. The task bar thing is awesome since you can pin certain apps to specific task bars and keep things organised by chosing to either show the apps only in the specific screen bar or on the screen and "main" screen task bar.
Even more so, performance of multimonitor smokes Win7. Try expanding a video in the player of your choice across 4 or more of your screens. In Win7 the video would get very choppy and often display artifacts. In Win8, no matter what the geometry and layout of the screens, the playback will be smooth and clear.
I am not saying that Win7 isn't a great OS but as a developer, things like the built in Hyper-V, excellent multi-screen support and so on just tip me to WIn8.
Richard.
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by sdnoob · 2012-12-31 20:52 · Score: 3, Informative

the metro-first push is the deal-breaker for me... along with everything that's being used to force metro, microsoft's app store and microsoft accounts on people..
they even went so far as to FORCE PEOPLE TO SIGN UP FOR AN APP STORE ACCOUNT (microsoft), which includes providing personal information, JUST TO DOWNLOAD THE FUCKING GAMES (which are metro now, btw) that have always been a part of windows previously... and that most people play at least a little (i know some that basically use their computers just for spider or free cell and nothing else)
the big winner for windows 8 is that fucking nuisance, wild tangent, which has distribution deals with all the large pc makers... their trials and drm/game engine are now the only games that are preinstalled on the majority of windows 8 computers sold at retail.... the average /. reader will know how and where to get games from other sources, but the masses aren't that bright.. they'll see the preloaded trials and think "that's just how it is now" and buy from those scumbags.. not even realizing there are alternatives.
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2012-12-31 21:05 · Score: 2

Wait. So if they just left it just like Win7 you would have upgraded? Why?
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by symbolset · 2012-12-31 21:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

As for installed crapware, it's just a right-click to uninstall. No uninstaller prompt BS any more.
No, it's not that easy. And it can never be that easy. Crapware is installed with system privileges. If you have crapware on your PC then somebody you don't trust to have your best interest at heart has been operating your PC with system privileges - before you even got it. They have professional programmers, advanced system knowledge. They can replace anything including core parts of the operating system, install keyloggers, rootkits and whatever. The standard retail consumer cannot defeat this. As an end user you absolutely must trust some of their software because you must have the OEM drivers to operate the gear. Even if you're an ideal IT pro and doing a burn an purge from verified Microsoft OS image, you still have to trust the OEM drivers that are installed with highest privilege. But the OEM has put fourth-party software on your gear, for pay, counter to your best interest - and almost certainly without inspecting it for nefarious code. This is not how you establish a trust relationship with your device or your OEM.
Windows OEMs cannot be trusted any more.

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Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 22:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

Installing a start button replacement is not the answer. This will only help windows 8 to have more market share. Understand their stated intention is to do away with the desktop and non-metro apps completely. If you are using windows 8, even if you have modified it to be identical to windows 7, it still registers as a sale to them and thus supports there ultimate goal of turning windows into a cobbled cellphone OS on your desktop where you have to sign into an account and download software exclusively from an App store.
Please stop telling people to use these damned tools. Tell them the ultimate answer to the problems with windows 8 is to downgrade.
Do not let them put you in the pot and bring it to a boil slowly.
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by Darinbob · 2012-12-31 22:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

I didn't need a google account for Android. I have one but I didn't have to use details about it.
I also absolutely without any doubt do not have an Apple ID and still use MacOS Lion. It is never needed except for their useless store.
Windows 8 also, only wants the id for their useless store which is easy to skip, and for some unnecessary cloud services (ie, syncing settings across computers).
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by WhiteSpade · 2012-12-31 22:49 · Score: 2

Can I just point out that you require an Apple ID to use a Mac or iDevice,
I don't know about Android or the iDevices, but for Macs you do not need an Apple ID. Yes, it does prompt you during the OS install, but you can skip that screen. Now, if you want to use their App Store for anything other than OS updates, then you do need an ID.
---Alex
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by RDW · 2012-12-31 23:06 · Score: 5, Interesting

Lastly, you dont need the start button if you learn how to use whats there.. Thats like complaining when going from Win 3.1 to 95. They got rid of my Program Manager I wish they gave me a way to turn it back on..
They did, from 95 up until XP SP1 ( http://support.microsoft.com/kb/142255 ). Of course back then they actually had people who thought about the impact of new interface design on users:
http://www.sigchi.org/chi96/proceedings/desbrief/Sullivan/kds_txt.htm
At one point in the design of Windows 95 they considered having two separate UIs, the windowed interface we know and a separate, simplified interface they thought might be suitable for beginners, and which seems to have featured a set of tiles that launched the various applications. Although the design "tested well, because it successfully constrained user actions to a very small set", it was abandoned because "If just one function a user needed was not supported in the beginner shell, s/he would have to abandon it (at least temporarily)", learning "would not necessarily transfer well to the standard shell", and "users had to learn two ways of interacting with the computer, which was confusing". I wonder if the Windows 8 design team were aware of this document..?
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by deniable · 2012-12-31 23:09 · Score: 2

I'm guessing you haven't actually logged into a Windows 8 machine. There's a skip option during setup. You only need the account for cloud services and app store, just like Apple and Google devices.
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by deniable · 2012-12-31 23:11 · Score: 2

Winodows OEMs could never be trusted. Most of the crapware is metro and that is dead simple to remove. Do you compile everything from scratch and do you audit all of the source?
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by Emetophobe · 2013-01-01 00:39 · Score: 2

3. Multi Monitor support was changed (Task bar now goes across all monitors).
I agree with your first 2 points, but most people would consider #3 a feature. It's also optional: http://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/image205.png.
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by arth1 · 2013-01-01 01:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

I quite like Metro. Less clutter. And I never have understood why the Start menu seems to be the epitome of UI design. Menus are okay, but going through a nest of subwindows isn't fun, and most of the time it just takes up space.
The three most important things in UI design are consistency, consistency and consistency. The start menu gives you a consistent way to navigate to programs and features. You can tell someone on the other end of a phone line how to start a particular app. You learn exactly where the apps are.
With Metro, this is gone - you have to visually search for apps icons that jump around based on usage or what else you use. It's completely inconsistent.
As for "just takes up space", the start menu never takes up more than a fraction of the screen. The Metro chooser always takes up an entire screen.
And it's this "full screen" philosophy of Metro that alienates power users the most. We do not want applications or OS functions to take up entire screens. We multi-task, and copy/paste between programs, or enter input in one app based on what we see in others. I would rather have the unused space display something important to me than just white filler.
Not wasting space on oversized borders and buttons is especially important on laptops, where vertical space is at a premium. Any metro-ized app will have less space available, often to the point that you can't even use it.
Metro is designed for the new single-tasking generation who can't handle more than one displayed app at a time. It's crippling those of us who want to use the screen real estate efficiently.
And it's hell for system support who relies on consistency.
Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... by arth1 · 2013-01-01 06:11 · Score: 2

going to start->All programs->accessories->calculator seems a cumbersome way to start calc.exe.

Yes, but it is also a way that will consistently work. Imagine troubleshooting someone over the phone. How do you talk them through consistently opening the system calculator in Metro? Sorry, typing "calc" won't work, because that might bring up "Calcification In Copper Tubing.docx" or a third party calculator. Using a pinned version won't work unless they already have pinned it.
"Hit the windows key, then swipe the screen right and left until you see an icon that looks like an old fashioned telephone, and make sure that if you hover over it, it says calculator"?
Sometimes, the start menu is useful. Especially for support and consistency.

it's not like we didn't see this coming by sdnoob · 2012-12-31 20:13 · Score: 2, Interesting

*WE* saw it.... microsoft, of course, did not. history continues -- every other release of windows sucks hairy donkey balls.

Re:it's not like we didn't see this coming by sdnoob · 2012-12-31 20:57 · Score: 2

treat 98se as being separate from 98... so you have 95 good, 98 not so much, 98se good.... me.... well, you know.
Re:it's not like we didn't see this coming by MightyMartian · 2012-12-31 21:06 · Score: 3, Insightful

WTF? Windows 95 was an unstable pile of shit, bits of Windows for Workgroups glued on to a terrible Win32 implementation. It was a rickety disaster released at least a year too soon out of fear that OS/2 Warp might gain enough adoption to fuck up the precious OEM model necessary to Redmond's survival.
Even Windows 98 was semi dubious until SE2, and modules like Winsock were rewritten so they didn't barf with obscene regularity.

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The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Re:it's not like we didn't see this coming by adolf · 2012-12-31 22:27 · Score: 2

As a somewhat-devout Linux protagonist and former OS/2 user, I've just got to say this:
Microsoft has released just two good consumer-oriented GUI operating systems, ever: XP and 7. (2000 doesn't count, having never been sold to that market.)
The rest of it? I have used it all, and it was variously garbage.
YMMV.

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Kid-proof tablet..

Maybe because sales of PC have been going down by prasadsurve · 2012-12-31 20:16 · Score: 5, Interesting

Most of the consumers are preferring to buy Tablets over PC so I guess the numbers of new Windows 8 PC are bound to be down as well. The fact that Windows 8 is horrible is probably just icing on the cake.

Re:FIRST!! by Kagetsuki · 2012-12-31 20:33 · Score: 5, Funny

No sticks. With Windows 8 you get a bunch of uncomroftable tiles, but no sticks.

Re:Will Microsoft call on Burson-Marsteller to fix by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 20:37 · Score: 3, Funny

It sounds like your Mom is trying for every timezone then. I had her for Central Time.

In his house at Redmond... by tooyoung · 2012-12-31 20:44 · Score: 4, Funny

In his house at Redmond dead Microsoft waits dreaming.

Anecdote alert by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 20:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

I was at my parents' house for Christmas this year and their computer died. During the ensuing "build me a new one" phase they had one opinion they refused to budge on: no Windows 8. And they know precisely nothing about computers.

On the upshot, you can now build a surprisingly good PC for under 300 bucks without having to pay the Windows tax -- but you can also get a computer almost as good if not better because of the Windows subsidy.

Re:Will Microsoft call on Burson-Marsteller to fix by MightyMartian · 2012-12-31 20:58 · Score: 3, Funny

It's kind of sad how some guys fall so hard for inflatable vaginas.

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The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.

/. editors that dunno html ... by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-12-31 20:58 · Score: 4, Informative

What can I say?

This ain't the first time the /. editors fscked up.

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Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !

Re:/. editors that dunno html ... by gbjbaanb · 2013-01-01 00:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

I guess the article editor doesn't support reading what he's just posted to see if he got it right!
Where do they get these guys from? Couldn't we have a random selection of /. readers on a rotating basis instead, I'm sure we couldn't do a worse job if we tried (as the peer condemnation would act as some deterrent, even if the /. "editors" don't give a fig)
Re:/. editors that dunno html ... by realityimpaired · 2013-01-01 02:38 · Score: 3, Funny

More likely, the phrase was originally "countless numbers of times", which is a proper english expression, and on proofreading he double clicked "numbers" and pressed delete, forgetting about the "of" that was there.
I've done that a times. :)

cornered animal by caywen · 2012-12-31 21:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

They worked their assed off, but made some really bad decisions. Now, sales are looking like a disaster - in their core revenue generator. Microsoft is beginning to feel like a cornered animal. It does still have claws, and hopefully the board will understand just how badly steveb has executed, once it sees the bottom starting to fall out. 2013 will be an entertaining year seeing how Microsoft scrambles. I'd start with a tutorial that wasn't a 2 hour hack job.

Re:I actually like Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 21:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

Metro makes me use the keyboard more to search for apps and pin common ones - actually more efficient than the start menu.

It boots in seconds.

Multiple monitor support is better and configurable.

It really isn't much different to Windows 7.

Dude seriously.. if all that is done with an os is web browsing, email, and the occasional third party app here and there.. ANY os will do. When it comes to getting some real work done you really need the operating system to stay the fk out of the way and be as intuative as possible. As a cloud operations engineer with one of the worlds largest companies, i could never use that os for work... it is a mere toy for the consumer base. Nothing more. Linux Mint will cure the illness... welcome all defectors!!

Re:I actually like Windows 8 by MightyMartian · 2012-12-31 21:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

For years windows guys have been telling me how backwards us *nix types were for reliance on the keyboard. Now suddenly to try pump Wndows 8, the keyboard is a great thing.

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The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.

Steve Balmer by asmkm22 · 2012-12-31 21:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

The CEO needs to be let go. It should have happened a long time ago, but I can't see them letting him off the hook yet again. He has literally done nothing positive for the company since he took over.

Re:Steve Balmer by MadMaverick9 · 2013-01-01 18:00 · Score: 2

Has he ever done anything positive before he took over?
Yes - of course. Trying to sell us Windows 1.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPQz0iOZXdE

I would try it by Brett+Buck · 2012-12-31 21:19 · Score: 3, Funny

Does it run on my Kin?

Gnome team and Microsoft think tablets are super! by BrookHarty · 2012-12-31 21:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

User interface guidelines. Android is finally realizing they needed interface guidelines. Apple has done great in both OSX and IOS. But Gnome team and Microsoft seems to be ignoring every standard and going gooey eyed over tablets.

My tablet is not my work computer, not my game system, and not my media box. Its my portable content reader.

Listen to your users.

Re:Microsoft - the company with two left feet by Runaway1956 · 2012-12-31 21:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

Define "top rate" please. Somehow, I think you've discounted all those unethical business practices.

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"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br

Re:I could have had a Windows 8 laptop by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-31 21:46 · Score: 5, Interesting

I got called in to help my Mother's barely computer-literate friend with her new super-duper Windows 8 laptop.

Good grief. What a nightmare. What normally takes a few minutes with 7 (slap on Firefox and a few other progs. done) took half a day and I even had to do a factory reset when the lappy decided my user account didn't have enough privilege to run UAC ("Please enter your administrator password" - WHERE?!?!?) The funny part was when I got a call a day later telling me the machine didn't work, it was stuck on "Some picture of a skyscraper". Ah, that would be the lock screen. How do we get rid of that? Errr, move the mouse down to the bottom of the display, click and drag the picture up thus revealing the password box underneath. ARE YOU SERIOUS MICROSOFT!?!??! Yeah, I know this makes perfect sense on tablets. She wasn't using a tablet, so WTF?

Based on this one exposure I'm betting millions of average people will currently be tearing their hair out over the Win 8 monstrosity. Telling them they can download hacks & fixes & third-party tools isn't going to help. Telling them to forget half their Win 7 controls and just remember various keyboard shortcuts isn't going to help, either.

As for the Metro GUI. Good grief. I've been overlaying different-sized windows since the days of my Atari ST. Metro seems to be either full-screen, or a kind of triptych tiling system. Not so handy for anyone with a display bigger than nine inches (i.e. 99.9% of Windows users).

Tablets, tablets, tablets... by Kjella · 2012-12-31 21:48 · Score: 2

People have gone tablet crazy, they estimate that here in Norway around 100,000 tablets have been sold this year for Christmas in a country to 5 million. That's 1 in 50 getting a tablet for Christmas. Not sure how many actually hate it, but Win8 was certainly met with a giant yawn in the market. Must be frustrating for MS to see that nobody wants Microsoft phones and tablets. Apple and Google on the other hand must be making a very, very good year...

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Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Re:silver lining by game+kid · 2012-12-31 21:50 · Score: 2

Well, they did the "find whoever was responsible" part, but I'm not sure you'd be happy with what they actually did with one instead.

Sadly, even Qt is slowly rolling down the Psycho Control Freak UI Designer road (see Qt Quick). I think we need more widget standardization, not de-emphasis.

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You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.

Re:Ideal opportunity ... by symbolset · 2012-12-31 21:50 · Score: 2

Now with Linux Genuine Advantage!

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Help stamp out iliturcy.

Re:Slashdot users are Windows users? by wonkey_monkey · 2012-12-31 22:27 · Score: 3, Funny

I'd have thought the demographic here was a tad more intelligent to be using Wintel rubbish.

Not sure about more intelligent, but they're certainly more condescending.

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systemd is Roko's Basilisk.

Not surprising... by dropadrop · 2012-12-31 22:41 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'd love to get to see the meetings where the desktop architecture decisions where made!

I bought a win 8 license since support for xp is ending, there was a decent offer and I felt I should still have a Windows virtual (despite needing it less and less).

Before buying I tried to ensure it supports a clean install and was told it does (upgrade license). The upgrade tool was supposed to offer image creation but that was missing. I was told running the tool after upgrading would let me create it and it did, but that seems a vit backwards?

So I upgraded, created the image, did a clean install... Only the license key was not accepted. Called MS, spent 30 minutes in queue, 15 waiting for the agent to find out what a virtual machine is and if it's supported and then got a working key. A bit later I had to activate, and went through the whole process again. I was also told any future install would ve the same.

All this before even getting to use the mess of an operating system that it is. I can't say I got a good taste in my mouth of purchasing the license (why does a paying customer have to have a bad conciousness?), or felt windows had become more friendly (quite the opposite). Hopefully this is the last windows I get, and I expect it is 'cause I feel really bad every time I start it up.

catchy design vs user-friendly design by loyals · 2012-12-31 22:42 · Score: 2

As a designer, you are mostly fighting between, catchy design vs user-friendly design. Achieving both is the real science. And Windows 8 fails at the later, hence it is less popular and will be less popular. Unless either users change their behavior, or Windows 8 design flaws are fixed, former is less likely.

Re:Microsoft - the company with two left feet by Tough+Love · 2013-01-01 00:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

Microsoft's decline started on Bill Gates' watch. Maybe Ballmer will preside over the "fall" phase. Maybe Ballmer's next trick will be learning to play the fiddle while playing with matches.

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When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Windows 8 by CFBMoo1 · 2013-01-01 00:50 · Score: 2

I have it running on a VM right now at work to look it over and I tried using it a bit but the constant switching from tiles to standard desktop was too much for me. If I took over for Balmer on Windows I'd scrap 8 all together and just take Windows 7 and start cleaning that up big time so it runs even faster and is easier to use then it already is. Usually I go out and buy a new version of Windows to look things over before upgrading family. This time I'm glad I didn't and even my family from what I told them don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole since it changes things so drastically.

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~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~

Re:It's just a big scam to make Windows 9 look goo by jones_supa · 2013-01-01 01:00 · Score: 2

You are mostly correct, although when compared to the clunkiness of Windows 8, I assume GNOME3 and Unity start to look like dream UIs for many. :)

Re:Will Microsoft call on Burson-Marsteller to fix by Guppy06 · 2013-01-01 01:14 · Score: 3, Funny

Yeah, kind of a bad sign when you buy your Fleshlight a Mac.

Re:Joygasm by drankr · 2013-01-01 01:34 · Score: 2

You're not a Linux user, you're an Anonymous Coward. I, OTOH, am I Linux user, and I just realized I could not care less about this story. Good job there's no clickable link to it or I'd have wasted more time reading it.

Re:It's just a big scam to make Windows 9 look goo by wvmarle · 2013-01-01 02:38 · Score: 3, Insightful

Don't worry they will be around. They have so much cash on hand, they can probably survive for years without much income. And face it, while Win8 may not sell well, that must mean Win7 is still selling, as the computer market as a whole has not collapsed. And pretty much every single computer sold comes with a copy of Windows.

Re:It's not dead by Gim+Tom · 2013-01-01 02:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

Last week I got my first look at Windows 8 when trying to set up my 72 year old cousin's new PC that came with it installed. We got it up, but having never looked at it nor even considered getting it I couldn't tell her the first thing about using it. If there had been some EASY and OBVIOUS way to get rid of the METRO interface and go back to a Classic Shell she might have been happy with it, but after an hour of trying to do anything useful she wanted it boxed up and she has already returned it for a refund.

I have never really been that fond of Windows since I started working with Unix and Linux back in the late 1990's but this time I think Microsoft has played a game of Russian Roulette with a semi-automatic pistol.

Re:Microsoft - the company with two left feet by MacGyver2210 · 2013-01-01 03:15 · Score: 2

Maybe Ballmer will preside over the "fall" phase

I'd like to think Steve has the balls to say "What the fuck, Ballmer? Give me my company back and let me fix it." before it gets to that point.

It seems like he appointed the wrong guy to run it, given the boneheaded mistakes ("oh, let's just copy Apple!") he has been making at every turn. The 'walled garden' approach is WRONG Steve. That is why Apple still holds such a minority share of the market, and has the reputation of "Easy for Grandma to use, but not good for _____" (fill in the blank with play games, program, crunch data, etc)

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If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits

Users' perception of what a "Windows app" is by tepples · 2013-01-01 03:50 · Score: 2

people buy a Windows 8 tablet and then find they cannot run Windows apps on it

Which is why Microsoft is working to change end users' perception of what a "Windows app" is over the course of the Windows 8 product cycle.

Re:Tap here by redwraith94 · 2013-01-01 03:52 · Score: 2

I personally don't mind the tile thing too much. Though it is stupid on M$'s part to not have the option to revert. I swore it off for the following:

Requires agreeing to binding arbitration. Requires opting out of any future class action lawsuit. Has no mention of upgrade on the packaging, and activates just find from the RC, but isn't legal unless you read the fine print (needing a valid previous OS). When 'upgraded' removes the right to use the OS you 'upgraded from', and it's final death knell the being not allowing me to use my Core2 class processors because they don't have SLAT for HyperV, when the server doesn't require this, and the graphics card in my FILE server has I think 32mb of RAM, it being a PCI card (not E, or X, just PCI).

I'm done with them, and the time I have invested in Ubuntu (and kvm) has rewarded me more than similar amounts of time spent learning the certification material. I'll still support them, as that is what most clients are using, but will happily replace them as often as I can.

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I art more snarky, and terse than thou. I art Slashdot!

Re:It's not dead by RDW · 2013-01-01 04:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

If there had been some EASY and OBVIOUS way to get rid of the METRO interface and go back to a Classic Shell she might have been happy with it, but after an hour of trying to do anything useful she wanted it boxed up and she has already returned it for a refund.

The Classic Shell I use is a third party addon:

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

It's a useful project that has been adding back features removed by MS from Vista onwards. Their start menu actually pre-dates Win 8 - it's more configurable than the standard Win 7 menu.

Of course, it's crazy that downloading something like this is even necessary!

why can't metro apps run in a window on windows? by Joe_Dragon · 2013-01-01 05:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

why can't metro apps run in a window on windows? and why can't have the desktop or metro UI in the window as well?

Windows 3.1 did not have a start menu but at least apps where not all full screen.

Re:It's just a big scam to make Windows 9 look goo by assertation · 2013-01-01 06:30 · Score: 2

The point you made is a fairly standard reply to my point. I put it to the test last year. I went window shopping, writing down part names, numbers and prices as best I could. An iMac was always several hundred dollars for a similar set up of hardware to a PC. The iMacs looked nice, but since I was so careful about comparing apples to apples as far as hardware went, I couldn't stomach paying several hundred dollars more to get about the same thing.

Re:Will Microsoft call on Burson-Marsteller to fix by hairyfeet · 2013-01-01 06:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

What is funny is these PR firms are apparently lazy as hell as I've noticed when someone will post a criticism of Win 8 a hell of a lot of the time the "its great!" Win 8 response you'll get back you can drop a line of in Google and they've posted the same reply word for word across dozens of sites, its like the fricking Nigerian prince emails. I don't know which is funnier, the shill copypasta or the "Oh that is not a problem, all you have to do is (big pile of keyboard crap)" which of course i just HAVE to reply with "So THIS is innovation? We need cheat sheets for our OSes again like its 1985?"

I have never seen a company in all my years just up and completely destroy themselves like this, damnedest thing I've ever seen. For those that think Win 8 is just the "Star Trek Rule" in action you might want to look up the "Windows Blue" memo, in it Ballmer lays out what he is doing in 2013 to "save Microsoft"...ready? He is gonna fuck the hell out of the OEMs and pretty much kill Nokia so that MSFT can make phones (just like Apple) tablets (ditto) desktops (notice a pattern?) and laptops (Ray Charles could see through this) and all of which will be priced HIGHER than anything Apple is offering, because dammit high prices MUST mean its good, after all people buy Apple right?

So congrats MSFT haters, you are gonna get to see the company completely self destruct as the PHB in charge torpedoes everything that Gates spent 20+ years building because he is too damned stupid to realize you can't slap a coat of paint on a Pinto and have it compete with Porsche. It took Apple decades to build its rep as a high end brand, Ballmer thinks all he has to do is triple the pricetag on everything and voila! Suddenly Windows is hip and trendy...NOT!

If the board doesn't stop smoking crack and fire this moron I predict in 3 years Apple will own the top, Google will own the bottom, and MSFT will be RIM, with nothing left but legacy business installs and even those will be looking at exit strategies. The truly sad part of it all is the day of the DIY desktop will end, you'll buy a black box Android or Apple and that will be that, unless you have workstation money it'll all be black box like the ChromeBooks.

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.

Re:Comparative scaling... by Sable+Drakon · 2013-01-01 06:37 · Score: 2

It's also an exceedingly annoying part of the OS. Moreso if you're running it on a laptop. If Microsoft made it officially possibly to turn off UX, made it an opt-out during initial setup, you'd end up seeing more and more upgrades being activated.

--
The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol

Alternative Explanation by Lawrence_Bird · 2013-01-01 06:46 · Score: 2

1. The eekonomy sucks worse today than when Vista was released. 2. Equipment lifetimes are greater 3. Unlike Win 3.1 or Win 95, there are far fewer perceived needs to upgrade the OS independent of a complete hardware replacement. In some cases (older hardware w/ XP) nothing short of replacement allows win 8 use. Lets put this in some perspective too.. outside of the Uber fanboys, how long does it take to get people to upgrade to the latest of Suse/Debian/Fedora /*BSD? In most cases, things now work well enough that there really is not much reason to go through the hassles of a complete upgrade unless you are starting over from scratch.

Re:Microsoft - the company with two left feet by Dr.+Evil · 2013-01-01 06:50 · Score: 2, Informative

MS had some awesome projects on the way when Bill left the helm.

WinCE was picking up steam and they were on the cusp of the smartphone era. Tablets were being flirted with on and off again. Netbook-like solid-state machines in the Jupiter-class notebooks were coming out. They were also looking towards advanced filesystems in new versions of Windows. They had the Terraserver project for a Google-maps, before Google had a name. They also acquired Hotmail and were developing the MSN portal before Google existed.

A lot can be said that Microsoft's success was in part due to acquisitions and slimy business tactics, and it's true. But Ballmer SHIT on Microsoft, wiped his ass with the stock and, flushed every edge they had down the toilet.

The best innovations of the last decade at MS are of dubious value. Sharepoint? the ribbon? Vista? Metro? Kinect? Zune?

Windows 8 and Windows phone are possibly okay, but they should have been released in 2002, not 2012.

Ballmer's an idiot who doesn't deserve to work in a shoestore.

Re:Will Microsoft call on Burson-Marsteller to fix by Crosshair84 · 2013-01-01 08:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

I can't find it anymore,but I had to laugh when there was a poll awhile ago that said 50% of people who tried windows 8 liked it. Just looking at the sales numbers told you that as BS. When reality and your poll numbers don't match, chances are reality is correct.

I just don't see everything going black box though, there is just too much need for a general purpose OS. If anything, someone will come out with a BSD variant or something. As long as the OS UI is as good as Windows 98 or better that will be good enough for businesses. (It better be a lot more stable of course.)

I simply can't see Balmer lasting much longer. They have the code to put a Windows 7 style interface in 8, they just stripped it out. All it would take is a service pack to put that back in there. They'll slap a new name on it though, like Windows 8 second edition or something, perhaps give it the windows 9 label. The board is probably making plans to get rid of him, they just need to find a replacement and give Balmer a little more rope to hang himself with. They are probably trying to figure out how Gates is going to react to Balmer getting the boot.

Microsoft completely focused on being 'cool'... by Ensign+Nemo · 2013-01-01 11:13 · Score: 2

You mentioned hip and trendy. I've noticed that Microsoft is still trying to be cool. Watching their commercials and ads and comparing them against Apple, Android and even google's chrome. Microsoft seems to really, desparately want to be 'cool', but their definition of cool is the one that teenagers and early-20 year old men have. Maybe the XBOX division has a lot of influence in the company. Apple and Android commercials, at least the ones I see, are useful things you can do with their devices, and coolness is there but it's well done and comes across and supporting and not the focus, the usage is the focus. Microsoft shoves it in your face that they are cool, and usage is secondary. To me, it comes across as desperate and crying for attention. It's very offputting.

Re:Microsoft - the company with two left feet by epyT-R · 2013-01-01 14:57 · Score: 3, Interesting

My understanding is that they actually promoted the one who designed metro when they fired sinofsky, Julie Larson-green. iirc, sinofsky was actually fighting to prevent metro from being the primary interface and was labeled an old stodge by his peers.

Re:Will Microsoft call on Burson-Marsteller to fix by Tridus · 2013-01-02 00:26 · Score: 2

Maybe it's not BS. 50% of your users not liking your product is a pretty bad number.

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-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates

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