BioWare Launches "Gay Planet" For the Old Republic

DavidGilbert99 writes "Labelled as an 'oddly regressive move,' developers of Star Wars: the Old Republic have decided that all gay characters will be stuck on a single planet called Makeb. The move comes with the release of the Rise of the Hutt Cartel pack and the Makeb planet will be the only place in the game where players can select 'flirtatious' dialogue options with characters of the same gender. From the article: 'BioWare executive producer Jeff Hickman apologised for same sex relationships taking so long to be added to the game, referring to the company's most famous title Mass Effect, where homosexual relationships are available by default: "First of all, I want to apologize that this is taking so long to get in the game," wrote Hickman in a blog post. "I realise that we promised SGR (same gender relationships) to you guys and that many of you believed that this would be with a companion character. Unfortunately, this will take a lot more work than we realised at the time and it (like some other pieces of content we talked about earlier in the year) has been delayed as we focused on the changes required to take the game Free-to-Play. '"

Comments

Srsly?

[Orleron]

*Checks calendar to make sure it's not April 1st*

Re:Srsly?

[Anonymous Coward]

Look elsewhere in the Star Wars universe...

You have the desert planet, the ice planet, the forest moon, the city planet...

Every planet has one damn definable feature. What's so absurd about it when Star Wars is nothing BUT a Planet of Hats type setting?

Re:Srsly?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have the desert planet, the ice planet, the forest moon, the city planet...

And now, finally, the FABULOUS planet.

Re:Srsly?

[bornagainpenguin]

Damn you, warn people if you're going to send them to TVTropes!

Re:Srsly?

[Anonymous Coward]

*Waiting for that worm-on-worm action when two of the Hutts meet.*

Re:Srsly?

[Anonymous Coward]

well I was going to ask weres if the have a gay planet where is the sad plantet but then I remembered what the subject was.

Re:Srsly?

[xclr8r]

I really don't get this move. The story line is usually solo or done with only one other person or you start losing companions substituted by real players. A lot of the romantic items happen on the ship which no one really invites others to their ship (or at least no one invites slashdotters to their ship). This just seems like it's going to piss off the already dwindling fan base. This sucks for the LBG... groups that just want to play the game with their friends and explore story lines on their own.

Re:Srsly?

[slashdime]

*Checks calendar to make sure it's not April 1st*

If they waited until April 1st, they'd lose the element of surprise.

Re:Srsly?

[Anonymous Coward]

Homoworld

Re:Srsly?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have the desert planet, the ice planet, the forest moon, the city planet...

And now, finally, the FABULOUS planet.

Finally, a target for the death star.

Re:Srsly?

[Evtim]

Quick, call Fox! Don't tell them it's a fictional planet and tomorrow all Republicans will support the petition for building the Death Star! Proper motivation is everything...

Re:Srsly?

[athenaprime]

Elsewhere in the Star Wars universe you also have plenty of Velveeta in your flirt options.

Re:Srsly?

[JimsonJ]

If it's anything like Key West, bring it on. I wonder if there will be a Drag Queen Drop on New Year's Eve?

Acceptable

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Well that takes care of 10% of their players. Now what about the robot female planet so the remaining 90% can feel accepted by their "I was born that way" mate preferences, too?

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you're saying you want a new area on planet Eroticon 6 called Valley of the RealDolls?

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

There's already plenty of female robots and characters you can bang.

Or Clang, as the case may be.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that takes care of 10% of their players

Since only 1-3% of the population is homosexual, I presume you are suggesting that players of Bioware titles are faggier than the general population.

Re:Acceptable

[SuricouRaven]

Which in turn depends on how they define their terms.

Re:Acceptable

[maxwell demon]

There's already plenty of female robots and characters you can bang.

Or Clang, as the case may be.

Clang? The compiler?
Ah, I get it, to program the sex bot. I guess the geek sex bots have a built-in terminal, and the conversation begins with: "How do you want it, Emacs or vi?"

Re:Acceptable

[rjr162]

Well I'm screwed as I'm a nano guy....

Re:Acceptable

[Golddess]

Actually, I think that means you would not be screwed. ;)

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

No scientifically valid survey has ever found more than 4% of the U.S. population to be homosexual although there is a cottage industry of academics publishing pseudo-scientific "studies" claiming much higher numbers. Nowadays, most honest researchers avoid the subject since the radical gay activists savagely attack anyone who publishes studies which run counter to gay dogma. Nice try at spreading misinformation though, nosferatu.

Re:Acceptable

[AlamedaStone]

5 - 12%, depending on which survey you read

Although the AC troll brings up an interesting point. I theorize that the rate of homosexuality among the geeks n' gamers crowd is probably higher than in the general population, if only because of the outsider appeal of the subculture. In my experience, us nerds are generally less judgmental about inconsequential things like sexual orientation and focus on things that really matter, like Who Shot First, or whether SSDs have finally solved the cost/performance ratio problem. Additionally, gamers skew younger (even with us Gen Xers bumping up the numbers), and young people tend to be more tolerant of gay folk too, in their way.

In any case, I'm growing a few throat oysters for Bioware the next time I see them walking down the street. They totally caved on their commitment to GLBT, which was a major reason I bought the game to begin with. At first it was "we'll definitely have gay stuff", and then around release they said "we'll have it in a content patch", and later they shoved queers back into the closet with "it will be a companion relationship only, so other people don't have to be grossed out by your gayness". Now they're backing away from that too? Just goes to show, a few Jesus nuts can really fuck it up for the rest of us when corporate interests are involved.

Support indie devs! Invest in crowdsource projects! Freedom is cheaper and better made.

Re:Acceptable

[LordLimecat]

Every group thinks theyre more insightful, wiser, and generally more intellectually mature than everyone else. I have no reason to believe-- especially after about 5 years on slashdot-- that this would be particularly true of the nerd subculture. If anything, it seems more clannish, because as people get progressively better in a niche area, they seem to progressively become closeminded and intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them.

Dont agree? Look for any article discussing Apple vs PC, or MS vs Google, or religion, or politics. As a conservative I tend to regularly get called interesting things here... "less judgemental" indeed.

Re:Acceptable

[Omestes]

Or it could be because sexuality is a pretty complicated thing. While you have the majority of people who are "straight", and a minority of people who are just "gay", within both groups you have a ton of variation. How many "straight" people have had at least one homosexual encounter? Impure thoughts? How many of either group are actually "bisexual"? Where do gay people who are "closeted" and only have sex with the opposite sex fall? Where do people who can't figure it out yet fall (in high school in the early-mid 90's being gay was the big thing for some crowds, and now most of these people are happily married and straight). Pretty much every girl I know has had sexual encounters with another girl, but identify as straight. In my male acquaintances this is less common, but still it isn't terribly uncommon.

Also where do various nontraditional gender identifications fall? You identify as a woman, but are biologically male, and still only have sex with females? Or in the case of my dad's neighbor, you were born male, had operations and hormones to become female, but still only sleep with your wife of 20 years?

Sexuality is a thorny and hugely complicated subject. Any study will differ based on definitions, and sampling.

most honest researchers avoid the subject since the radical gay activists savagely attack anyone who publishes studies which run counter to gay dogma.

Who actually gives a shit how many gay people there are in the world? Why does it matter to anyone? I suppose I'm the wrong person to ponder this, since I don't actually care one bit, what people do in their bedrooms, consensually, is no business of mine. As long as people are happy, I don't care.

I am happy that there is a "gay dogma" but not a "intolerance" dogma. Which is odd, since last I checked the intolerant crowd was much louder than the other bunch.

Re:Acceptable

[0111 1110]

Since only 1-3% of the population is homosexual, I presume you are suggesting that players of Bioware titles are faggier than the general population.

At least post-Dragon Age that does seem to be the case. Maybe as high as 30-40%. They are the official LGBT developer. Half the devs themselves are gay.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not to mention that players don't necessarily play as themselves. I mean, lezbeonest here, I'm sure I'm not the only male who didn't play FemShep straight.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that takes care of 10% of their players. Now what about the robot female planet so the remaining 90% can feel accepted by their "I was born that way" mate preferences, too?

Actually closer to 2-3% and possibly even less given the distribution that play online star wars games.

Re:Acceptable

[smg5266]

I didn't know Rick Santorum was on Slashdot

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

Dollars speak louder than your faggy whining.

Re:Acceptable

[Tyr07]

If you don't like the video game, don't fucking play it.
If you don't like the sports, don't fucking watch them.

I'm tired of special interest groups interfering with the creative process of my games. If they want to do gay, that's their story choice, if not, then that is too.
If you don't want to be changed, stop trying to change everyone else.

It's terrible, why aren't you complaining about sports games too? Maybe you should complain the NFL doesn't have enough gay atheletes.

People have the right to have whatever romantic interests they want in the world, I firmly believe that, if it's not hurting anyone, it's all good, and I hope you have a happy life. I believe you have the right for tolerance and not to be hated for it, or discriminated against in manners that have nothing to do with sex. Like work, or being in public etc.

This doesn't mean people have to design gay content just for you. This doesn't mean you need hetrosexual people to play with your homosexual character in a video game.

We're supposed to be tolerant and accepting of people's differences, it doesn't mean everyone must promote it.
That would be the same as if a religious special group complained there wasn't enough of (insert faith here) into games and they had to be added everywhere.
Where are the days where video games were dsigned for fun and entertainment, and not play things for special interest platforms?

Re:Acceptable

[Phrogman]

My first thought was why can't a player designate the sexual orientation of their character via a pulldown, and then let the combination of pulldown settings determine what emotes etc are available? Why segregate the population. What about the RP types who want to play a gender they aren't?
In this day and age with a growing acceptance of the fact that not all people are straight, I would have thought they would be leaping on the opportunity to "go with the flow" on this.
I tried SWTOR mind you, and although I didn't get all that far, the game seemed rather limited and repetitive, so I haven't played with the emote system etc.

I prefer playing the original SW MMORPG: www.swgemu.com :P

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

What's sadly ironic is if Jesus was around today, I truly think he'd be deeply saddened by his supposed followers' discrimination of gays. If your neighbor is gay, should you not still respect them as a fellow human?

That's why I hate religion. The members.

Re:Acceptable

[AlamedaStone]

Every group thinks theyre more insightful, wiser, and generally more intellectually mature than everyone else

Less judgmental about sexual orientation is what I said, and nothing in your informative post leads me to conclude that nerd culture is less comfortable with gays than pop culture. As for feeling judged for being a conservative on slashdot, I have to tell you that I personally don't judge you for being a conservative, but if your post is any indication I DO judge you as reactionary and willing to warp logic and ignore facts to soothe hurt pride, or whatever your particular issue is. Now I know that's a kind of intellectual fad with conservatives right now, so maybe you just thought you were being judged for your politics when it was really because you come off as kind of a jerk. I admit that I am intolerant of jerks, but I'm not ashamed of it.

Re:Acceptable

[AlamedaStone]

Where are these crazy entitlement posts even coming from? You may not realize it, but this game was marketed towards the gay community before release - but they never put the work into the design. That's why it's so technically difficult to hack it in now. Get it? It was just a bunch of bull. That makes people mad. If this was about feature X instead of feature Gay, you wouldn't hear about entitlements or special interests.

This is like the black thing with Obama all over again. People are afraid to face their internalized hate of some group or another, and so they rationalize this kind of oblique discrimination. Look, we're all a little xenophobic - it's cool. But work on it, okay? Because it really feels like shit to be treated this way. And feeling like shit feels like shit! Which, if you've ever felt like shit, you know.

Re:Acceptable

[AlamedaStone]

Eh, I don't hate religion, but it does seem to cause more problems than it solves, on balance.

Re:Acceptable

[LordLimecat]

"Called interesting things" means seeing posts indicating I (as a conservative) deserve to drown in a hurricane (post was clarified to indicate it was serious), that Im racist, bigoted, and quite possibly the greatest threat to world peace out there.

Is this supposed to be an indicator of tolerance and non-judgementalism? Am I being "reactionary" here for not thinking that this is the bastion of objectivity and rationalism that you seem to think it is?

Im not trying to warp facts here, Im saying what anyone who has been on slashdot, digg, or reddit for a while knows-- that Geeks like everyone else suffer from "im a genius and everyone else's values suck" syndrome.

Now I know that's a kind of intellectual fad with conservatives right now,

Case in point. Trying to have a discussion and you cant for one moment just hold off on the attacks? Is it really necessary to bust out the ad hominems?

Re:Acceptable

[AlamedaStone]

Way to move the goal posts down to where the straw man is. Another reason I don't usually respond to people like you. Sorry your feelings got hurt, broseph. I'm constantly told I should hate myself for different reasons, and I don't care for it either. The advice I hear most often is to suck it up, cupcake.

Your original point was to dispute that geeks are more tolerant of gays. The only evidence you provided was your own incredulity. Then you changed the topic to how you're persecuted for your beliefs and declared victory. You're a huge hypocrite, and that bugs me no matter who you vote for.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

Now I know that's a kind of intellectual fad with conservatives right now

Is it really necessary to bust out the ad hominems?

No, and he didn't. That's not an ad hominem, regardless of whether it's correct or not.

Re:Acceptable

[LordLimecat]

The advice I hear most often is to suck it up, cupcake.

OK. My point was never "woe is me" though, so this is irrelevant.

Your original point was to dispute that geeks are more tolerant of gays

I dont believe I mentioned "gays" at all in my post.

Your original post made a specific point, but also a general one that geek communities tend to "focus on important stuff":

us nerds are generally less judgmental about inconsequential things like sexual orientation and focus on things that really matter, like Who Shot First, or whether SSDs have finally solved the cost/performance ratio problem.

My point was pretty clearly that thats bogus, and that "us nerds" can be just as "judgemental about inconsequential things" as anyone else. You seem to be implying that "what really matters is technical / factual" stuff rather than ideological stuff; watching posts over the last election season should indicate that "us nerds" get into stupid ideological discussions as-much-if-not-more than anyone else.

If youre reading anything more than that into my post, stop it.

Re:Acceptable

[Capsaicin]

Now I know that's a kind of intellectual fad with conservatives right now,

Case in point. Trying to have a discussion and you cant for one moment just hold off on the attacks? Is it really necessary to bust out the ad hominems?

There is no ad hominem in mentioning "intellectual fads" of ideological movements. There is no ad hominem in describing someone as "reactionary" in a discussion of their personal political opinions (a discussion you initiated). Whether or not it was justified is another question (it wasn't), but it is directly to the point. 'Reactionary' is, after all, a technical term in political discourse, referring to a political position which aims to return society to some earlier state. A term coined from the Réaction to the French Revolution and the attempts to re-establish the Ancien Regime.

But your original post was truly insightful, whether it is in terms of wisdom, coolness or whatever, it is in the nature of groups to elevate themselves above others. An insight which should not be the monopoly of any particular political orientation and certainly not one that can fairly be described as 'reactionary.'

Re:Acceptable

[Capsaicin]

Your original point was to dispute that geeks are more tolerant of gays. The only evidence you provided was your own incredulity.

That's all he (or she) needs. Affirmanti non neganti incumbit probatio.

Whether or not this particular sub-culture is more tolerant of non-normal (in a statistical and explicitly value-free sense) sexual orientation is an empirical question. As the person making that claim the onus or proof rests squarely on your shoulders. All anyone who disagrees with your needs to bring to the table is their scepticism.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate starwars fans as much as the next guy. But calling them 'gay' as an insult? 'That's not old school or new school, that's middle school.'

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus was an orthodox Jew before he was savior. How do they treat gay people? Accepting hugs, ponies and rainbows?

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not to mention that players don't necessarily play as themselves. I mean, lezbeonest here, I'm sure I'm not the only male who didn't play FemShep straight.

+1

It's probably players who played FemCharacters but still don't want to RP dating a dude.

That probably fills in the extra 5-12%

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

"I am happy that there is a "gay dogma" but not a "intolerance" dogma. Which is odd, since last I checked the intolerant crowd was much louder than the other bunch". Actually, it is the two extremes that are louder than the who gives a crap crowd.

Re:Acceptable

[Omestes]

touche.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

How about if they define it like this?

Gay = men who puts their erect penises into other men's assholes and/or let other men put their penises into their own assholes.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

... what people do in their bedrooms, consensually, is no business of mine.

I have the same sentiment. Unfortunately, as this link shows, gay people don't keep what they do confined to their bedrooms.

Re:Acceptable

[Omestes]

Eh, when I was young, I managed to make a lot of people uncomfortable in a lot of strange places too.

Re:Acceptable

[Ironhandx]

If you are currently an Identifying conservative in America you can't be called a geek. A geek examines evidence placed before him and will do his best to revise his opinions based around the most concrete evidence.

The conservative party is full of so much hypocrisy and out-and-out lies in America right now that it kills brain cells just to read about it. If you examined it at all you'd see it for what it is.

The Democrats have examples but they're not as pervasive. You could potentially identify as a democrat due to one issue or another being larger than others in your particular life. In reality though, any proper geek in this day and age shouldn't identify with either of the two monstrosities in the U.S.

Re:Acceptable

[GameboyRMH]

Prepare for a mind-blowing: People who call themselves tolerant don't tolerate intolerance, because that promotes intolerance!

I'll give you a few minutes.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

From the point of view of a business it certainly does matter how many gay people there are. Is it my target market. As a percentage of what is my target market, how much should I cater to them. If I don't how vocal will they be - how much business will it gain/cost me?

Its not about principles, its about the cold hard reality of selling a product.

Re:Acceptable

[Cinder6]

This is not to mention that players don't necessarily play as themselves. I mean, lezbeonest here, I'm sure I'm not the only male who didn't play FemShep straight.

This. I don't care a whole lot about romance options in games, but if I do "pursue" them, I've never "gone after" a male NPC. I don't think it's homophobia or anything, it's just that I have no interest in doing it, especially when pursuing an in-game romance with an NPC doesn't have any benefits.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

In any case, I'm growing a few throat oysters...

I have never heard that expression before. What does it actually mean? Quick google search brings up something about tonsil stones. You want to give Bioware tonsil stones?

Re:Acceptable

[LordLimecat]

Maybe youre not familiar with the term "ad hominem" as used above. It means that rather than discussing my point, you attack me or my affiliations.

Not to mention accusing me of things simply by way of affiliation: have I committed hypocrisy here? Have you any reason to accuse me of lying? Or would you choose perhaps to NOT make that implication and perhaps tone down your rhetoric?

This all really points back to the original issue; it was claimed that geeks tend to be more tolerant and thoughtful, and here entire groups of people are essentially being called morons because of where they stand on the political spectrum. If thats "insightful", then Im a duck.

Re:Acceptable

[LordLimecat]

Attacking someone by way of their affiliation rather than the point they make is an ad hominem.

Re:Acceptable

[Capsaicin]

Attacking someone by way of their affiliation rather than the point they make is an ad hominem.

Yes. An ad hominem is attacking the validity of someone's argument based only on some personal attribute of the arguer unrelated to the argument itself. However, if the affiliation is the point under discussion, attacking it cannot be an ad hom.

>>As a conservative I tend to regularly get called interesting things here... "less judgemental" indeed.
>I have to tell you that I personally don't judge you for being a conservative, but if your post is any indication I DO judge you as reactionary

Poster is not saying "you argument (re the self-elevation of groups) is wrong because you are a reactionary" (which would be an ad hom), he is saying "you might think you are getting picked on because you identify as a conservative and while I wouldn't judge you based on that (yeah right!), the contents of your post show you to be a reactionary (which brand of conservatism, in apparent contradiction to the preceding clause, poster is willing to judge). That is not an argument ad hominem. Indeed, it is barely an argument.

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I think that means you would not be screwed. ;)

I'm pretty sure I have no idea how to interpret that, so I'll just grep my sarcasm database and drink a scotch.

Is my process a reflection of the fact I'm never getting screwed or subtly hinting I already am?

Re:Acceptable

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen.

Re:Acceptable

[Ironhandx]

I don't see another way to phrase it. There are almost zero conservative party viewpoints(with the single exception of gun control) that have any substantiated roots in evidence or even reality. The conservative party has become entirely a "Toe the party ideological line at all costs! Even if it kills the country!". Even policies they CAMPAIGN on when the democrats try to push through the EXACT same policies the conservatives quickly about-face and turn into rabble-raisers instantaneously.

I'm not saying Obama is a saint, or even particularly good, but most of the reason for that is that he didn't use his first two years of a full democrat house/senate/presidency to quickly push through the shit that was required. Instead he played politics and tried to keep to his campaign promises. He tried to work with the republicans and figured out way too late that they were fucking him over. We'll see if he can manage anything over the next 4 years, but with the sad state of the political system currently I can't see anything happening anytime soon.

Re:Acceptable

[AlamedaStone]

In my experience, us nerds are generally less judgmental about inconsequential things like sexual orientation

it was claimed that geeks tend to be more tolerant and thoughtful, and here entire groups of people are essentially being called morons

Straw man.

Begone!

Re:Acceptable

[AlamedaStone]

Actually, that's a perfectly valid point. My theory is logically sound, but I suppose there wasn't much to rebut. Incredulity is the kind of logical fallacy that makes me see red I guess. My bad.

Re:Acceptable

[AlamedaStone]

You seem to be implying that "what really matters is technical / factual" stuff rather than ideological stuff

...

If youre reading anything more than that into my post, stop it.

back atcha

Re:Acceptable

[LandGator]

Reality is in short supply everywhere in Politics.

Go be gay over there...

[Manfre]

sounds like the digital version of don't ask, don't tell.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[ThePhilips]

They should have called the planet "Hell" or "Purgatory."

Might have attracted christian players.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Austerity Empowers]

Seems more like "if this offends you, don't go there", since you neither have to ask nor be told to know what's going on there.

If there is no need to rub the GLBT issue in people's faces, why do it? If you ask me this is the reason places like California still do not have gay marriage. You can't make people change their minds, you arrange it so that they don't have to until it's too late.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[mwvdlee]

Would have been much easier to allow everywhere and let the individual players block incomming "flirtatious" dialogue for their own character(s). That way you could block or allow all such dialogue if you wanted, or just for your specific "female protocol droid" preference.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[dyingtolive]

That kind of cheapens Apartheid, doesn't it?

Also, Old Republic is still around?

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Jmc23]

Oh, you have detailled knowledge of their system and it's workings and know for a fact that it would be simpler to implement your idea?

Re:Go be gay over there...

[AmiMoJo]

Problem is some people are offended merely by seeing same sex couples together, allowing them to stay in the same hotel room together or just thinking about it. Bioware took the cowards way out, instead of calling out the bigots for what they are.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was thinking they took the bigots way out because either way they support the idea that it shouldn't be a natural part of the universe, why not just make a game instead of a relationship simulator. In this case they just lied a bit and pandered to a demographic they think they'll get money from. I wouldn't be surprised if this backfired a little bit and 10 whole GLBT people didn't bother to buy it. The gamer demographic inst that huge, and the star wars game fan demographic is even smaller subset of that.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Nemyst]

You do realize that this isn't about interactions with other players, right?

TOR is a very story-driven game, and thus this is all about NPCs having dialogue options which include romance options. Many such NPCs already have romance options, but up to now only heterosexual ones. What's been decided there is that apparently homosexual romance can only happen on this one planet, which is part of a paid-for expansion pack.

This isn't about other players doing unsolicited homosexual romancing. It's about the player having the ability to, if he/she so chooses, romance other characters of the same sex.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[mwvdlee]

I wasn't aware.
That does sound completely retarded though, why not just have those options available all the time for anybody?
It's easy enough to ignore the dialogue options you don't want to use.
Seems like it would take more effort to limit only heterosexual romantic dialogue than to just open it up completely.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[LordLimecat]

"If you dont approve of my behavior youre a bigot", is that how it is?

Would I be a bigot for example if I disapproved of seeing someone else commit adultery?

Re:Go be gay over there...

[geminidomino]

I wonder if it's not incompetence, laziness, or a lack of manpower, rather than cowardice. We're talking entirely new dialogue trees here, and adding the content to back it up, not just throwing one option onto each NPC.

Imagine the blowback if they did do it that way.

[Aggressive] Give me the databank codes or I'll nail your tongue to a wookie!
[Diplomatic] Surely we can come to some mutually beneficial arrangement...
[Flirtatious] Forget the databank codes. Let's talk about us...[0]

Player selects the new third option:

NPC: Fine. You can have my copy of the code book for twelve thousand.

Player: *RAAAAAAAAGE*

NB: Not a huge fan of Bioware, never have been, but I think it's not inconceivable that the vitriol here is yet another example of gamers being unreasonable and clueless.

[0] Oh, shut up. I don't even know how flirting works in meatspace, much less how it goes in another galaxy!

Re:Go be gay over there...

[webmistressrachel]

Well, since it is not a crime, anywhere in Europe, it would be none of your damn business, sir.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Anonymous Coward]

Although, speaking as a philanderer myself, I'd have to point out that just because it is legal, doesn't mean he has to approve of it.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[webmistressrachel]

Very true, my comment merely serves to point out that he had no right to stop it.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[LordLimecat]

I believe my post was specifically about disapproval, so perhaps simmer down a bit.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you would be.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[AmiMoJo]

"If you dont approve of my behavior youre a bigot", is that how it is?

No, disapproving of people because they are gay makes you a bigot. Being gay is not a choice someone made, just like being black or a woman isn't.

Would I be a bigot for example if I disapproved of seeing someone else commit adultery?

Depends. You can disapprove of adulterous behaviour because when it is a choice and it is harming that person's partner. On the other hand there are situations where it is usually deemed acceptable by society and the law at large, such as when a couple is separated but not yet finally divorced or when both parties agree to have other sexual partners.

The main point is that adultery is a chosen behaviour, where as homosexuality is not. Additionally, there mere fact that two people of the same sex are married does not harm anyone else.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your point that homosexuality is not a choice, while factually correct, is not really relevant. It would be wrong to discriminate against someone on the basis of sexuality even if it was a 100% conscious choice that could be altered on command, just as it's wrong to do so on the basis of things like religion or being married/unmarried (which, of course, ARE choices).

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you dont approve of my behavior youre a bigot", is that how it is?

No, disapproving of people because they are gay makes you a bigot. Being gay is not a choice someone made, just like being black or a woman isn't.

While I agree with the general sentiment, being gay or transgendered is not the same thing as being white or black or male or female. Even if there is a genetic basis, which I'm not going to argue one way or the other, the only way for someone to discriminate on the basis of someone being gay is for that gay person to self-identify so that they may be discriminated against.

It wasn't until the 1970's that a PDA (Public Display of Affection) was considered acceptable among heterosexual couples, and that took the "hippie culture" integrating into mainstream culture to achieve.

From that point of view, discriminating against someone who has self-identified for the sole purpose of permitting themselves to be discriminated against is really not on the same par as discriminating against someone because they are visibly and black, white, red, or pinstriped in a way which is impossible to disguise.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[HornWumpus]

Depending on the definition of 'Adultery' yes I'm liable to interfere if it's going on in public. Perhaps a garden hose. If the girl (or girls) is hot, perhaps a camera.

I forget what his name was (a pioneer days judge in SF) parapharsed: 'I don't care what they do. As long as they don't do it on the streets, where it will scare the children and horses!'

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Anonymous Coward]

[0] not (=O=) almost a virgin.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[SnEptUne]

I think the definition of adultery seems to be different depending on the person. For Christian like me, I consider it any sexual lusts that is disrespectful and create unneccessary non-beneficial wants - such as having sexual thoughts about a person other than your spouse (this isn't an obvious sin for many people). Are you more righteous just by having the "right" sexual orientations? I think not. Is it bad to rape someone? Yes, gay or not this is sinful. Is it irresponsible to have sex with someone before marriage? I think so.

Being approving nor disapproving is not the main concern, but rather having the correct knowledges and reasons. But as a human being, we only have limited knowledge and wisdom. I personally don't approve of bigotry, and think as civilized people, we should be able to exchange idea and agree to disagree, for we are all sinners and have partial knowledge. For matters that are serious in nature, more investigation, inspection, and discussion are certainly needed, and laws are required so that people don't go around killing and raping people as they see fit. Nevertheless, I see too many people start jumping to conclusion based on ideology, religion, political standing, and even sexual orientations.

Re:Go be gay over there...

[jjsimp]

Seems kinda weird that a Star Wars game even has heterosexual romance in it, let alone homosexual/bisexual. Weren't the movies supposed to be for kids? Why is any of this involved in the game? And now with Disney buying up the Star Wars universe, how long until all of this stuff gets removed anyway?

Re:Go be gay over there...

[Anonymous Coward]

It caused a little flurry when the base game was released without gay romances because Bioware has a reputation for being inclusive. One of the developers said something like "There is no gay in the Star Wars universe" which caused another flurry. The story going around was that this was an edict from Lucas rather than Bioware's input, but who knows?

I guarantee you that they'd add gay romances to all the companions if they could wish it into existence. It is certainly a lack of manpower. They'd need to record new lines from probably 30-40 different voice actors, implement them in some way to include people who have already advanced past those conversations, and make sure they're not messing up any quest flags in the background (this is a massive, massive game, it's harder than it sounds). Instead of doing this, they're just going to be more inclusive in future content.

The real controversy happened a year ago, this whole "gay ghetto" thing is just manufactured outrage on both sides. I mean I'm sure anti-gay people don't want it in the game, but consider that this game already lets you break the mind of a nice young lady by murdering all her friends, then corrupt her into your personal sex slave assassin -- this isn't exactly a game about family values to begin with.

Ooookay.

[Anonymous Coward]

As much as I wanted my female twileks to be able to make flirtatious sapphic banter, this is probably the least of TOR's problems.

Please...

[Anonymous Coward]

...don't make RTFA, but where's Disney in all of this?

Re:Please...

[Bing Tsher E]

Disney characters have no genitalia.

to boldly go

[Anonymous Coward]

where all men have come bfore...

Re:to boldly go

[sexconker]

where all men have come bfore...

Macduff:
Despair thy charm,
And let the angel whom thou still hast served
Tell thee, Macduff was from his mother’s womb
Untimely ripped.

Macbeth:
Noooooo
ooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooo
ooooooo!

bigotedly delicious!

[Anonymous Coward]

yellow stars, blue moons and now pink triangles!

Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Amorymeltzer]

I thought attachment was forbidden for a Jedi. It leads to jealousy, and last I heard the shadow of greed, that is.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[bigstrat2003]

Because only 2 out of the 8 classes are Jedi.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Bieeanda]

Jedi classes only comprise about a third of possible class options; lots of people would rather pretend to be a Han Solo or Boba Fett.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Daetrin]

I am not a serious Star Wars geek, but i know the game is set a few thousand years before the movies, which among other things is why there are tons of Sith running around. The Jedi philosophy has changed a lot over the entire history of the Star Wars universe (if you check the Wookipedia they've got detailed articles about events going back at least tens of thousands and quite possibly hundreds of thousands of years, though i forget the exact details.)

It's possible that at that point in history the Jedi hadn't adopted some of the more extreme "modern" views (no emotional attachments, must begin training practically at birth.) And of course as others have pointed out, Jedi aren't the only kind of character you can play in the game.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Enderandrew]

Jedi classes make up 2 out of 16, or 1/8th of the possible class options.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[RKThoadan]

Actully, 2 out of 8 base classes, 4 out of 16 advanced classes. There were already standard Heterosexual relationships available for those who don't care so much about what the Order thinks.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[BriggsBU]

In the Jedi starting area there's a quest chain where you discover two Jedi in a romantic relationship and have the choice to tell the instructors about them because it is against the Jedi code.

So.. Still was against the code in SWTOR's time frame.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Luckyo]

KOTOR takes place in the world where rules are not really enforced all that strictly, even though they are in place. So if new kids in the order bang each other and they get found, they face about the same punishment as the kid in military school getting caught. Stop or be kicked out.

But lore on the Old Republic suggests a lot less obedience to the rulebook then at the time frame of the movies. Jedi order (and by extension sith) are not all that powerful, and there are quite a few force users that openly choose other paths and live to tell the tale.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Billly Gates]

Just because a straight relationship is in there does not mean that has to be changed.

There is already hidden gay content in KOTOR. Click here at 2:25, then tell me a regular woman would describe just a friend that way? "... she was a dear companion for many years. We would spend nights alone and gaze at the stars ..." if that does not spell out lesbian RT I do not know what else does?

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Billly Gates]

It has not changed in the movies either set 3600 years later either. Remember Annakin Skywalker had to turn to Darth Vadar or quit the Jedi order. We all know what path he choose.

In the books Luke changes this rule so a repeat will not occur in the new Jedi order, but Disney tells us they wont follow cannon and will do its own thing so wh the hell knows what the new jedi order will bring if it follows the same rules or not.

What I have noticed in the game is the ancient jedi are more open to recuiting older members. Perhaps, because so many were killed with the war of the sith or they were afraid if they did not snatch them up, perhaps they would be turned to sith if the empire found them and captured them and forced them into sith.?

Still it is a darkside option for any romance as jedi. As a result I created empirical characters. They can do whatever they want and not deny their human nature. Oddly, I quickly found out they are not free in the empire either and are simply pawns to evil sith lords who are trying to undermind them constantly. So guess you are screwed either way if you are force sensitive. :-)

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[sexconker]

KOTOR takes place in the world where rules are not really enforced all that strictly, even though they are in place. So if new kids in the order bang each other and they get found, they face about the same punishment as the kid in military school getting caught. Stop or be kicked out.

But lore on the Old Republic suggests a lot less obedience to the rulebook then at the time frame of the movies. Jedi order (and by extension sith) are not all that powerful, and there are quite a few force users that openly choose other paths and live to tell the tale.

You can't be a Jedi without the Jedi Order granting you that title. The Jedi Order doesn't allow fraternizing. If you fraternize you're not a Jedi.

They'll kick you out and you won't be a Jedi anymore. You'll just be some washed-up force user, juicing on midichlorians at the age of 48 so you can stay on the D-list and play softball with Kathy Griffin on a mid-season special on Fox.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the books Luke changes this rule so a repeat will not occur in the new Jedi order, but Disney tells us they wont follow cannon and will do its own thing so wh the hell knows what the new jedi order will bring if it follows the same rules or not.

The books are not canon. Canon has only ever been what was in the movies or maybe on the Clone Wars TV series. Books are all Extended Universe, and Lucas (or now Disney) would never consider being bound by them. It's always been that way.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Luckyo]

But once you're in, you're in. The "kicking out" part never happens to any main characters of the games in the universe. In spite of them OPENLY showing off their relationships in discussions.

Which is my entire point. Rules are applied selectively. As a result, you end up in situation where powerful, such as your main characters, have free reign to go fucking around (literally) and still stay in the order.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[PhxBlue]

The books are not canon. Canon has only ever been what was in the movies or maybe on the Clone Wars TV series.

... Which sucks, because it means that the Star Wars Holiday Special is canon, while Grand Admiral Thrawn is not.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[sexconker]

But once you're in, you're in. The "kicking out" part never happens to any main characters of the games in the universe. In spite of them OPENLY showing off their relationships in discussions.

Which is my entire point. Rules are applied selectively. As a result, you end up in situation where powerful, such as your main characters, have free reign to go fucking around (literally) and still stay in the order.

Wrong. Once you're in you can be kicked out. Jedi Master Dooku was kicked out and became Darth Tyranus / Count Dooku.

Anakin Skywalker was a Jedi (but not a Master) and ceased to be one when he turned to the dark side.
"Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader."

You can trot out all the expanded universe crap you want, but it isn't canon, and it never will be, despite what Lucas or Disney say.

Re:Why is there flirtatious behavior?

[Luckyo]

Can? Yes. But in bioware's KOTOR world, powerful ones don't get kicked out for fucking around. That's just the reality of it.

It's pretty obvious that KOTOR is not part of lucasarts' original universe. It's a creation of bioware, it exists over a thousand years before the movie timeline and universe is very visibly different. A good example of this is just how nasty the republic actually is, and how evil jedi can be in the games while remaining "jedi".

Or how nice sith can be while remaning sith.

Ah, virtual segregation...

[Ossifer]

... a heavily pixellated Geroge Wallace must be smiling in his recycle bin...

Re:Ah, virtual segregation...

[Anonymous Coward]

Geroge Wallace renounced segregation.

Re:Ah, virtual segregation...

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Speaking of which, the 50th anniversary of George Wallace's speech is today.

New Character

[Anonymous Coward]

Jabba the Butt

Re:New Character

[GameboyRMH]

You joke but there's a gay character of Jabba's species in the Star Wars universe...but he's like the gay equivalent of a blackface character. >_>

Just NPCs?

[Vintermann]

This is just about dialog options to NPCs, right?

Or is SW:TOR like one of those children's MMOs where you can only choose from a preset number of dialog options when engaging other players?

It was surprisingly hard to ascertain from the wikipedia page.

Re:Just NPCs?

[pr0nbot]

I presume it's dialogue with your companion NPC. In hetero-SWTOR (as I suppose we must now call it) you can end up flirting with your companion NPC, provided they're of the opposite gender.

Re:Just NPCs?

[RKThoadan]

Nope, just flirting with other NPCs out in the world. They apparently wanted to get it working for companions but it has apparently been harder than they expected.

Re:Just NPCs?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

If I can finally get with Mako properly, it will all be worth it.

Re:Just NPCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

They apparently wanted to get it working for companions but it has apparently been harder than they expected.

that's what he said!

Re:Just NPCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm actually really surprised it's more complicated than removing a gender check to start the romance option. Thats how people enabled same sex relationships in Dragon Age.

There's only actually two romances for each class, with one of the male companions or one of the female companions. The real hit would be the fact that everything is voiced. There might be some odd sounding dialog I guess where the game assumes your character's gender. And the expense of bringing back the 16 voice actors may have been an unjustifiable for the update.

You can flirt with some NPCs as a dialog option, but it doesn't really build on anything, I suppose the difficulty there would be it creates a fourth dialog option, if you add in a formerly blocked flirt. That is assuming that the non-flirting gender actually had three options.

Jaba moving to Makeb

[Anonymous Coward]

I always knew there was something fishy about that guy.

Just one thing to say

[Chrisq]

Bugger me!

"Regressive"?

[YodasEvilTwin]

Expanding sexual diversity in new content is not regressive. They've made it clear that they want to make it a full option throughout the game, but you can't just snap your fingers and make that happen. Same-gender romance is "restricted" to one planet because only one planet is being added in the expansion.

I'm not sure what the agenda is of the submitter/poster/etc., but it certainly isn't equality if they're whining about a step towards that. Also, this is a video game for crying out loud. Chill the fuck out.

Re:"Regressive"?

[0xdeadbeef]

They didn't cater to a minority in the beginning, that means they hate that minority.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

This.

Going back and changing scripting and bringing back all the original voice actors to voice new dialog for same-gender/same-sex dialogue is costly and a pain in the ass. So for new content moving forward, they're planning for it.

Bioware is trying to be inclusive by adding the content in the first place. They aren't trying to segregate players.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree 100%; I would think this is extremely progressive of them actually.

People seem ot think that companies have a responsibility to cater to or take a stand on social issues. Nothing is further from the truth. A company has three roughly equal responsibilities: 1 - provide goods or services to it's customers, 2 - provide decent employment in a safe environment for it's workers, and 3 - provide value to it's shareholders. When taking a stand on a divisive political issue, they risk jeopardizing some or all of those three core responsibilities. COnsidering that SWTOR's F2P business model stinks to high heaven, they really need to spend their time there. Making the game have SGRs is not going to make people buy more stuff from them and make the game a good revenue earner; providing quality paid content is (and personally I think the Rise of the Hutt Cartel expansion is also the wrong direction, I mean expand on the war already! Make the game competitive between the Republic and the Empire!) To me focusing time and money on developing quest lines and additional content for SGRs is putting their employees at risk of unemployment.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Rogerborg]

Is it more complicated than removing some "if(player1->gender != player2->gender) { do_sexy_time(); }" conditionals?

Are you imagining that they have to re-do voiceovers to make them camper?

Really, what's the big deal, technically?

I expect it's not technical at all, it's more they fear the Christian Moms Against Faggotry lobby turning it into an Issue. I mean, you start with a bit of harmless man-on-man flirting, then it's wookie-on-trandoshan civil partnerships, and before you know it, everyone's marrying their gay bantha.

Re:"Regressive"?

[_UnderTow_]

but you can't just snap your fingers and make that happen.

Perhaps if you snapped your fingers in a Z formation.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

Bioware has included same-sex options in every game since Dragon Age. They're not afraid of any agenda. They don't just take heterosexual romance options and remove gender filters. Their same-sex romances in their games are written to be meaningful and different.

And bringing back all the original voice actors to record new dialogue is costly for a game that is reporting losing tons of money.

So instead of spreading FUD based upon assumptions, you should actually play SWTOR and look into Bioware's track record.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

Grr. Shouldn't multi-task while typing. I meant Baldur's Gate, not Dragon Age. They've done same-sex for quite some time.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it more complicated than removing some "if(player1->gender != player2->gender) { do_sexy_time(); }" conditionals?

Yes.

Are you imagining that they have to re-do voiceovers to make them camper?

Cute strawman. But it seems far more likely (full disclosure: I've not actually played this game) that the existing dialogue isn't gender-neutral), so more dialogue will need to be written for same-sex pairings. I suppose you could argue that it should have been written gender-neutral from the start, but I think that would frequently come off as stilted and awkward writing. So the easiest way to get started is to begin with the new content (i.e. the new planet).

I expect it's not technical at all, it's more they fear the Christian Moms Against Faggotry lobby turning it into an Issue.

If they were worried about that, they wouldn't add the "gay stuff" to begin with.

Re:"Regressive"?

[thesandtiger]

The "regressive" statement pretty clearly refers to the difference between Mass Effect, where gay relationships were included right away and this later game by the same company where gay relationships were not included right away and are only being bolted on afterwards. It is literally regression in that it is a step (or multiple steps) backward in how Bioware handles diversity of relationships in their games. It's a perfectly valid term to use in a valid complaint from the segment of people who care about how relationships are implemented in RPGs.

Personally I don't care about the relationships in RPGs since 99/100 times they're just poorly executed theater used by sub-par writers as a shortcut to get the player to care about an NPC, but I can understand that people who like Bioware games and who liked the diversity offered in earlier games would be bothered that Bioware did a worse job of implementing diversity of relationships in their latest game.

It's not "whining" any more than it would be "whining" if a maker of any other kind of game where they were known for certain features in their games were to suddenly scale back that feature.

Re:"Regressive"?

[thesandtiger]

Nah, you're missing the point:

In previous Bioware games they allowed people to have same-sex relationships by default. In this latest Bioware game, they did not allow people to have same-sex relationships by default, and are only bolting it on in a clumsy fashion after the fact.

It's literally regressive in that this newest game by Bioware handles same-sex relationships less well than previous Bioware games. It's a step backwards for Bioware, even if it's a step forward compared to some other game makers.

Imagine the complaints if you took any $franchise and removed $feature that said $franchise was known for. People would rightly call it a step back.

As I said elsewhere, I find relationships in RPGs to be almost always poorly executed and pointless because they're not handled well, but as a gamer I can certainly see how people who come to a publisher expecting that publisher to deliver on something they usually deliver would be bothered when they don't get what they expected.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL! I give that comment 3 snaps in a circle!

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

In Dragon Age and Mass Effect, Bioware owned the properties. They could do what they wanted without asking permission.

Adding homosexual content to Star Wars requires the permission of Lucas and LucasArts. Karen Traviss added a gay character/couple in one novel I believe, and it turned into a huge controversy even though it was a minor background character. The debate as to whether or not homosexuality even exists in the Star Wars universe had never been determined. George Lucas is a self-described "hippie" living in Marin County, so it is quite possible he had no problem with it personally, but the Lucas-empire had to decide how it would financially affect the brand.

Amazingly enough, they eventually signed off on it, and homosexuality does apparently exist in Star Wars.

Re:"Regressive"?

[AmiMoJo]

Why wasn't the additional dialogue recorded in the first place, or phrased so as to be gender neutral? If Bioware have such a great track record you would think the feature would have at least been planned for from the start, if not actually implemented on day 1.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats all fine and dandy.
It explains the wait.
But why have they banished all the gay characters to a single planet?
What you said does nothing to explain that.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

No one knows for sure, but my assumption is budget and the need for approval from LucasArts.

SWTOR reportedly cost over $200 million to make. They set the Guiness World Record for most voice actors on one project. And they localized the game in several languages. Bioware romances generally play out differently based upon gender (even if the NPC is bi and can be romanced by a male or female) and alignment. For each of those options, they would have to record new dialogue in several languages.

Re:"Regressive"?

[thesandtiger]

And the problem here is that your entire argument basically sums up why gay folks are bothered by this in the first place:

They weren't included at the beginning because of concerns about profit, but then when people decided that not being discriminatory (or, to be kind, pretending gay folks don't exist) wouldn't cost them money, THEN they decided to relent and give those gay people their VERY OWN PLANET where they can be as gay as they want (but only there for now - if you want to go anywhere else you have to stop acting gay). Oh, and if you complain that this is kind of not a very good way of handling things, well, you're just being a whiny gay and GEEZE why can't you people ever just be grateful? (Not you saying this, but many people in the comments here are being exactly like that).

Gay stuff wasn't included originally based on a business decision. The fact that it was a business decision doesn't somehow abrogate the parties who made that decision from being discriminatory dickheads ESPECIALLY when they were making that decision and using the name of a company that had previously been decent about implementing gay stuff in their games.

Now they're implementing gay stuff in the game, but because of their original (stupid) decision not to, it's really hard to retrofit it to the whole game, so instead they're making a little gay ghetto planet and acting like people should be just thrilled with how progressive they are, without realizing just how horribly tone-deaf that implementation is.

It's craven and condescending. They were more concerned with profits than people before, and then when they realized profits weren't going to be hurt (because the game is not doing well), they gave in and are now trying to hold themselves up as bastions of progress and tolerance, and they have people like you coming in here to say "Geepers, they were just trying to protect their investment, but once they realized that they could treat gay people like, well, people, they relented, it's ever so reasonable!" and making excuses for them.

I would have respected them more had they simply said "We don't think it's worth catering to gay people in this regard and need to protect our profits" and left it at that. At least it would have been honest.

Re:"Regressive"?

[HaZardman27]

All of the dialogue in the game is voice-acted, so they would actually have to go and record dialogue for each class for same-sex flirtatious conversations (assuming they just used the same dialogue of the opposite gender).

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

I'm not saying the gay community shouldn't be upset over how they're treated by the media, or the lack of romance options in video games.

But this article and summary attack Bioware, which is absurd. Bioware has gone out of their way for years to cater to all players. The fact that Bioware needed permission from LucasArts isn't Bioware's fault. Calling this regressive behavior on Bioware's behalf isn't fair.

And you're also mistaken. Gay players don't have their own planet. The article is misrepresenting the facts and spreading bullshit that is getting people outraged over lies.

All players are being directed to the new planet for new content. All future planets and all future content will include same-sex romances.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

Gay characters aren't being segregated. The article is mistaken.

The new planet holds new content for all players and is the center of the expansion pack. Same-sex romance options are only being added to new content, including this new planet.

Re:"Regressive"?

[thesandtiger]

I actually understand the mechanics, but I'm getting at the laughably tone deaf way this is handled when I talk about the way the new stuff is being implemented.

And, again, it actually IS regressive the way this is handled, even if Bioware isn't solely responsible for how things were implemented.

Anyway, the issue here is that gay folk are being treated like second class people and using this as an example of how, but everyone's just so eager to tell them to stop whining about it that they're missing the reason it happened in the first place and why these folks might be upset about it.

If you're going to have relationships in the game and you're also going to claim that you are inclusive, it's a big sign that you aren't very inclusive when you wind up having to retrofit that inclusion after the fact AND you designed your systems so badly that the only way you can add inclusion later indicates it was never actually a consideration. Bioware and Lucasarts (and a lot of people here on Slashdot) are pretending like its the people who have been excluded who are in the wrong here, not the people being exclusionary. It's adding insult to injury.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

You're trying to defend a broken argument. You accused Bioware of segregating gay players to a gay ghetto planet, which isn't true.

Bioware is only responsible for their decisions. Saying that Bioware is responsible for things out of their control is absurd and unfair. Your rage is misplaced.

The systems weren't designed so poorly as that same-sex romances couldn't be included. This is purely a financial issue. Every feature in the game costs money. There are many features that Bioware wanted that weren't included initially because the budget exceeded $200 million.

Bioware is including all players, when I don't think other MMOs even offer this options for same-sex romance. So instead of thanking and praising the companies that do try to be inclusive, you're attacking them?

Let me know how that works out for you.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL posts like that make me miss K5.

Re:"Regressive"?

[thesandtiger]

You are missing my point. I will make it simple:

Bioware chose to Implement relationships in the game in a way that clearly did not value inclusivity - they could have written the relationship lines of dialogue to be gender neutral, they could have had the actors record an extra line when the line was gendered, etc. they obviously have a flag for determining what conversation options are available for a given NPC based on player gender, so it should have been relatively easy to plug in those other lines.

But, they obviously - because they are choosing to implement the same-sex relationships now in a very awkward way - did not consider same-sex options important during design.

They do not get to come back and say "before we prioritized profits over people, but now that we realized it doesn't matter, we are going to do the right thing" and then pretend like they're good people.

Moreover, other people don't have the right, when someone else points this out, to basically accuse the people who had been disregarded before,of whining or telling them they should be grateful they at least got something. Well, I mean, they have the right to, but it just makes you look silly.

As to your final point - that Bioware is including all players. Yep, they sure are, except that because of their choices and biases going in, not all players are being included equally, but people are now saying to those players who were obviously an afterthought, that they should be grateful and any complaints are just whining. You don't think there's something just a little off about that? I know I do.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

Writing gender neutral romances doesn't serve anyone well and isn't inclusive. That just makes for poor romances. Bioware goes out of their way to write each romance arc as something unique. When Fenris has a romance with a female PC, it is different from a romance with a male PC. Their romances often change based upon the player alignment as well. Instead of a half-assed effort that plays poorly, Bioware is taking the time to do romances correctly for everyone involved.

And yet you're complaining that someone is making so much effort to be inclusive instead of complaining about the companies who do nothing.

That is called biting the hand that feeds you.

Re:"Regressive"?

[thesandtiger]

Let me try one last time:

Lucasarts and Bioware chose to CATER TO HOMOPHOBES/BIGOTS rather than implement same-sex relationships in their game.

When it became clear that they wouldn't profit by CATERING TO HOMOPHOBES/BIGOTS they then implemented a lesser version of relationships for players interested in same-sex relationships.

Some people are saying that Bioware and Lucasarts are wrong because they are doing this half-assed implementation that is half-assed because BIOWARE AND LUCASARTS CHOSE TO CATER TO HOMOPHOBES/BIGOTS and designed their game in a way that reflects that choice.

You, on the other hand, are now saying that these people who are upset at Bioware and Lucasarts because of their ORIGINAL DECISION TO CATER TO HOMOPHOBES/BIGOTS are wrong because Bioware and Lucasarts decided to belatedly pull their heads out of their asses and offer same-sex relationships as a fucking marketing point for an expansion to their vastly underperforming game. You seem genuinely mystified that people aren't just saying "YIPPEE!!! There is absolutely nothing cynical about them including this feature as a big bullet point on the package and they certainly will not ever CATER TO HOMOPHOBES/BIGOTS LIKE THEY DID INITIALLY and we should be happy that we get this little bit that obviously reflects their choice to CATER TO HOMOPHOBES/BIGOTS!"

I bolded the important part because maybe it just needs to be louder and bigger to sink in.

I'm done here.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this provides nothing to the conversation, but my god, that was the funniest thing I've read in a while. Had to stop reading for a few minutes to double over, laughing.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Enderandrew]

No, you're inventing fiction. No one catered to homophobes and bigots. There is no gay-bashing in the game. Gays aren't portrayed in a negative light.

The game went over-budget. Features were cut. And before Bioware could add SGR into the game, they wanted to get LucasArt's permission. LucasArts approved it. That decision was made right around launch. Bioware had lay-offs. The game didn't meet financial expectations. The game shifted to F2P because it lost money.

And despite the financial losses, SGR was still added.

And you're upset about that and lying to justify misplaced anger. That doesn't change the fact that you're lying.

Furthermore, insisting that any content that doesn't include SGR is homophobic is just asinine.

http://www.cabrillo.edu/~jhancock/coda.html

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

ADDING it to Star Wars?

There were not one but TWO gay couples in Star Wars: A New Hope. Sure Leia eventually stole Han from Chewie, and Luke stole R2 from C3PO, but we all knew what was happening before then.

Re:"Regressive"?

[thesandtiger]

I'm violating my statement I wouldn't come back but:

You said Lucasarts was worried about having same sex relationships in the game because of previous controversy and that they had to protect their profits, correct?

Who, other than homophobes/bigots would raise a stink over gay relationships being available in a game to the point where it would hurt profits from reduced sales?

Tell me. Please. Explain how someone raising controversy because gay relationships are treated the same as straight relationships in the game isn't a homophobe or a bigot. Explain to me how not putting gay relationships into the game at the start - was not catering to the homophobes and bigots initially, and had nothing to do with not upsetting the delicate sensibilities of homophobes and bigots.

You said they were worried about protecting their profits for controversy, so back it up and show how that has nothing to do with catering to bigots and homophobes in this case, when the only people who would cost them money in lost sales would be the homophobes, and the only increased costs in production could have been avoided by simply reducing the number of straight relationship options to get a couple of gay ones in.

Difficulty: if you mention moral/religious objections you then also need to make sure the moral code you're citing doesn't allow gayness to be ok but has nary a problem with constant mass murder and torture.

Bonus: explain how gay relationships only being available behind a paywall while straight ones are in by default, or how there are no gay options for companion NPCs is somehow equal and should be gratefully accepted.

This ought to be good.

Also, on a side note: you've been making a lot of personal assumptions about me and you've also now accused me of lying. I've been paying you the courtesy of at least assuming you are honest in your opinions, even if I disagree with them. I'm going to change that assumption now - I don't think you're arguing in good faith, I think you're just spoiling for a fight and not willing to listen openly to arguments from other points of view, and I think you do have an agenda other than what you're claiming. I'm in this argument because it involves the decent treatment of people - you are involved because someone said something you don't like about a corporation. There is no way a reasonable person without an agenda would be so invested in defending a corporation - so you're either unreasonable or dishonest,

I'm at least honest enough to wonder why I bothered engaging with you past the first reply, but fortunately that's something I can remedy.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir win the internets.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget they also had the incest couple Luke and Leia, and the creepy uncle Ben and nephew Luke. Not to mention the creepy dwarf Yoda and Luke love affair. Man, Luke is a really perverted little bastard.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Faggotry is a $bug, not a $feature.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Going back and changing scripting and bringing back all the original voice actors to voice new dialog for same-gender/same-sex dialogue is costly and a pain in the ass.

Giggity

Re:"Regressive"?

[drinkypoo]

Is it more complicated than removing some "if(player1->gender != player2->gender) { do_sexy_time(); }" conditionals?

So you're proposing that they change every NPC with romance options to be bisexual? I don't think that really addresses the problem.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Talderas]

Dragon Age did not include any gay characters. The "gay" relationships were with bisexual individuals.

With Mass Effect, gay characters did not show up until Mass Effect 3 with Steve Cortez and Samantha Traynor. Every other possible relationship that could be "gay" was bisexual and that was after turning Kaiden Alenko from straight to bisexual. That's not even getting into the weirdness due to the nature of the Asari.

Re:"Regressive"?

[YodasEvilTwin]

SWTOR was released over a year ago; the "regressive" complain may have been appropriate then. This article is obviously a complaint about the new content, and misrepresenting it as an attempt to segregate gates rather than as an initial step towards rectifying the problems with previous iterations of the game. The new content is not regressive.

Re:"Regressive"?

[Anonymous Coward]

most coherent post yet ... ty

Remove suggestive dialog options

[sanosuke001]

How about, instead of banning flirtatious dialog to a single planet, they remove it altogether if they intent to coddle their user base? If you're going to censor your players either go all or nothing. If you intend to take a stand at ignorant and bigoted viewpoints, then open it up game-wide and don't try to hide possibly objectionable content in the closet so to speak and, instead, put it out in the open. It's 2013 ffs and if people can't deal with other people being different, well, they can go fuck themselves.

Now, if this is because they don't want people harassing others with same-sex comments without actually being gay and are trying to limit that to a single planet then they should remove all suggestive comments entirely. If you're worried that a gay male character is going to offend a straight male character by telling him he looks sexy then don't have the comment available. The same can be said for a straight male making suggestive comments to a straight female; it can still be inappropriate and they don't have to be gay. If that's their issue; remove it entirely. (Well, I'd rather them ban players who can't behave like adults but that's another discussion I think.)

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[sanosuke001]

Sorry for the self-comment, but I just wanted to point out that I do not play SW:TOR and I am assuming these dialog choices are in-game macros like /wave and /dance (I've only ever played Final Fantasy XI and they were called emotes) or built-in chat messages that are also macros. I guess this could also be applied to chat filters but it didn't sound like it from the summary.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

I do not play SW:TOR and I am assuming these dialog choices are in-game macros like /wave and /dance

Well that explains why you couldn't have been more wrong with your assumptions. The dialog choices they are talking about are NPC dialog branches that flesh out your character's story. Normally in the game you can build a relationship with your crew members if you so choose, and previously they only implemented the story and dialog for hetero relationships. In the new expansion they are adding a new planet and so they apparently decided to add in homo as well as heterosexual options for the NPCs of this world. For the people who were asking for it, its too little too late to be honest, I'd rather they had waited until the whole game had the options or not done it at all. I personally can live without it.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[sanosuke001]

So why only one planet? My comment still applies but it seems even more ridiculous. If you want people to opt-in/out of these choices, just ask for a sexual orientation during character creation (have an "other" section so people can see all options, maybe?). It's still ridiculous that it's limited to one planet. Does the star wars universe ferry all LGBT people to a single planet because they're a bunch of homophobic assholes? Seems shady at best on biowares part.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[jythie]

From what I gather, they worry that parents will not allow their kids to play the game if homosexual content is permitted. From talking to such parents, when you really drill down into it, it is less about fear that other people will make advances on them (though many still believe that gay == pedophile) and more about they do not want their kids to even have such options. They want a particular world view embedded in the game mechanics, so one is not even able to 'flirt' with same sex NPCs. It is all about restricting exploration due to fear that if they get a chance they might 'choose' to be corrupted into becoming gay, or even worse, getting used to homosexual narratives and seeing gay people as, well, people. It is easy to demonize an abstract and they do not want their children humanizing gays.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

I misread the last part of your comment as "ferry all the homophobic assholes to a single planet", thats a great idea!

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

If you haven't played SWTOR then you dont realize the insanely huge amount of dialog built into the game. It has the most voice actors of any game in history from what I recall. The reason the whole game doesn't have these choices is because they didn't have time in the initial development, and had planned on adding it later through an expansion, this expansion. Well they apparently miscalculated how much work it would take so they only did it on one planet. Lazy? Quite possibly. Homophobic? Not at all, the fact that they are adding it at all means they are at least trying to make the options available to those who want them. The only reason it is being requested in the first place is because they had the options in their previous games like Mass Effect so their fanbase is used to having those options.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Enderandrew]

SW:TOR is a fully voiced MMO. Every line of dialogue has a voice actor. And most NPCs have a unique voice actor. Adding same-sex romance into the game meant going back and changing the scripting for each NPC, as well as bringing back the previous voice actors to record new dialogue.

That is why they're only doing it for new content.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like it is being added as part of an x-pack dealing with the Hutts, who are gangsters, so I'm willing to bet the new planet is a vice planet.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[HCase]

New planet, new NPCs, new voice acting lines. To retrofit it to the old planets, they'll need to bring back in voice actors and add dialog branches to already created NPCs.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

I misread the last part of your comment as "ferry all the homophobic assholes to a single planet", thats a great idea!

Or should you.. fairy them?

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Beardo the Bearded]

Okay, I'll buy that, but why would they have to do that at all? If all the female NPCs have flirty options for males and all the male NPCs have flirty options for women, just use those existing options.

i.e., change this:

if( ( player.gender() == male && NPC.gender() == female ) || ( player.gender() == female && NPC.gender() == male ) )
{
        dialogChoice.flirty == true;
}

to

dialogChoice.flirty == true;

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Beardo the Bearded]

And yet they seriously have no problem at all with C-3P0? That robot would have been kicked out of a 70's era San Fransisco YMCA.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Enderandrew]

Because Bioware has never done it that way. For example, there is a character in Dragon Age 2 that is bisexual and can be romanced by a male or female character.

They don't just ignore gender in the equation. The romance is actually different if it is started by a male or female, even though both can romance the same NPC.

And as I stated, they still need new voice recordings. Voice actors aren't cheap. They have to line-up all the original voice actors to add new dialogue, and the game is reportedly losing a lot of money. So long as they are presenting options in the new content, I doubt they feel it is worth the cost to re-do all the old NPCs.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

Try actually reading the article next time you blithering idiot.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[snemarch]

Because it would be quite a lot of effort to retro-fit to the existing game? It would require a fair amount of scripting, as well as (possibly) new cinematics, and definitely some extra voice-acting. There's an expansion coming, that expansion has a new planet and new NPCs, and they've taken the time and effort to add gay stuff there. Move along, people, there's no bigotry to be seen here, only time and budget constraints.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[TheCarp]

What field are you gathering from? Because the summary even says that this is a concession because adding the content that they want (and still apparently plan) was more work than expected.

That kind of makes sense... you likely have:

1. A large set of NPC options, each with their own dialog. Meaning decisions have to be made about how different ones respond to this.

2. places where lazy programers or game designers used made assumptions to save time (Oh well we can just check if PC sex is not equal to npc sex for that)

3. Cultural issues. Just because you have a few gay guys on your writing team doesn't mean that you have ones who have any social skills and know how to write dialoge that other gay people will.... come to think of it... they can't handle that for herero characters....

If this was intentional or a way to dodge fundy criticism, then, creating a homo ghetto is pretty bad. However, if it really as a taste of more fundamental changes that were just not ready... then good for them.

Of course, if their same sex flirting is as lame as the hetero flirting in.... um... every game that includes any..... then hey, gains are gains right?

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Jmc23]

...and you gather this from which undusted corner of your imagination?

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[thesandtiger]

I played it only for a few months, but I remember being struck by just how particularly bloodless and neuter the "romantic" dialogue was - I assumed it was written that way to facilitate more diverse relationships if people wanted to go down those paths. I don't recall much in the way of gendering in the language etc. Honestly, they could probably just disable the gender check in relationship options and other than a few possibly awkward lines it wouldn't be any worse than it already is.

Then again, my observation might be entirely based on the fact that I was an absolutely terrifying, psychotically evil Dark Side Sith chick and my relationship option was Quinn, who really, he's NOT gay, you're *sure* Bioware?

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[thesandtiger]

One of the heterosexual relationship options in the game for male Sith Warriors is the ability to take and torture a woman with a shock collar. Eventually you can more or less break her to the point where, if you marry her, she will joke about haha, remember when you used to torture me by shocking the shit out of me while I wore that shock collar, well, let me go get it so we can get frisky...

You can also commit (gleefully) mass murder, psychological torture on families by killing their loved ones and then rubbing it in their faces, blackmail for profit, and a whole host of other unsavory activities that you are rewarded for.

I guess what I'm saying is that any parent who is worried Little Timmy might get the offer to sit on Darth Fabulous's Meat Saber should *probably* not let their kid play this game in the first place, and definitely shouldn't be catered to when they express their preferences for what should/shouldn't be included in a video game for their kid.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't played it, but I'll bet that the existing "flirty" dialogue is often gender-specific, as in "What's a sweet little girl like you doing in a place like this?". Letting the male NPC's say that same thing to male PC's would be rather off-putting, I expect.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[DaveV1.0]

Yes, that would work because I am sure a gay male playing a gay male character won't mind having the audible voice output saying something like "You are a lovely woman" when he uses the flirtation dialog.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

if people can't deal with other people being different, well, they can go fuck themselves.

So you and I agree that calling people names just because their views on homosexuality is different from yours is wrong. Right?

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[AlamedaStone]

I misread the last part of your comment as "ferry all the homophobic assholes to a single planet", thats a great idea!

Or should you.. fairy them?

Oh, you.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[AlamedaStone]

It isn't that Bioware is homophobic, it's that they appear to be enabling and empowering the homophobia of others by reneging on their original commitment to gay content.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[AlamedaStone]

my relationship option was Quinn, who really, he's NOT gay, you're *sure* Bioware?

Right?!

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[jythie]

The part that seems to contain actual physical parents?

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Beardo the Bearded]

Point taken.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[jythie]

The quotes about the work needed were actually from a while back, so they are not talking about why this particular way of finally allowing such interactions into the system is the way it is.

The work element is poor excuse here. We are not talking about massive coding changes or reams of new dialog. All that is really required is removing the gender check for which pairs have access to which speech options. What they have essentially done is changed the check from 'if A.sex != B.sex' to 'if A.sex != B.sex OR A.current_world.allow_gay_stuff == True'.

I interpret this specifically as a way to, as you say, dodge fundy criticism. They created a ghetto that is behind the paywall. If nothing else, if they are having to create 'special behavior and dialog for homosexual flirting' then they are already doing something pretty wrong and insulting, since last I checked gay people flirt and interact pretty much like any other people.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Jmc23]

Ah, so your parents tried to teach you homophobia instead of reading? oh, i'll be nice. sigh, you're probably gay and dealt with persecution from your parents, but you're also clearly wrong. Next time, when you say something like 'from what i gather', actually try gathering information from present reality and not from your past which has nothing to do with this.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

Show something that jythie said that suggests even a hint of homophobia. You won't because you can't.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[jythie]

Not past related at all. Talking to modern parents with young children about their concerns.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Artifakt]

I played it only for a few months, but I remember being struck by just how particularly bloodless and neuter the "romantic" dialogue was

So, just like Episodes 1 through 3 then?

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[cfalcon]

In addition to all the excellent other points, there's also the fact that it would render a decent chunk of the game's NPCs bisexual. Given how goddamned rare bisexuality actually is (and that it's not just a throwaway part of a person's life), that's kind of ludicrous.

That being said, a combination of that and characters that are actually gay could have happened, and probably would have if they could do more than 5 companions per character.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[halltk1983]

They're reneging on the promise to make the content by making the content? There's no magic content wand. This stuff takes time. A lot of it. And money. A lot of that, too. They're trying to get people to stick around and play. The majority of people leaving said they didn't want to pay a monthly sub, so they changed to add a F2P model. That took the majority of the resources, since that was a majority of the complaints. Now that that is done, they have additional resources to work on adding and changing other things. And they are. The game's only been out for a year. Breathe a bit, and give them some time to work out the kinks. They said they'll do it, and if you don't drive them under with the cries of IT WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH, then it'll get there. In the meantime, I suppose you should go play the multitude of other MMOs with a rich storyline, involved relationships, voice acting, *and* built in SGR. I'm sure you'll be able to provide me a long list of those, since you're so aghast that Bioware missed one.

Re:Remove suggestive dialog options

[Anonymous Coward]

You are talking about player to player right? This is about player to MOB, NPC, companion character conversations. Other people can't see what you say to NPC's companion or otherwise.

WBC

[Sparticus789]

And in response, the Westboro Baptist Church has announced that all 12 of their members will take to the streets of Makeb to protest.

Re:WBC

[CheeseTroll]

They'll be edited into the background of Darth Vader's funeral pyre, harassing Luke with anti-gay vitriol, in the next release of ROTJ.

Re:WBC

[Anonymous Coward]

IT'S A TRAP!

Re:WBC

[Sparticus789]

And on the other side of their signs, WBC will write "But marrying your sister would be OK"

Re:WBC

[Anonymous Coward]

No, those are in the next patch.

Re:So No Cure

[Anonymous Coward]

E for effort.

Inflammatory headline

[turiel]

What actually happened:
New content will include will include same-sex options. It just happens that the new content only includes one planet. Future new content will also include same-sex options.

I don't understand why the submitter is taking such an offensive stance with their post. There is no conspiracy against gays, especially when it comes to Bioware who are one of the pioneers of same-sex relationships in their games (dating back to Baldur's Gate).

What would you prefer, that this content wasn't added at all? No let me guess, you'd prefer they revamp the whole game. Nevermind that their team has been cut down to a fraction of their original size due to the commercial unsuccessfulness of the game. Instead lets invent a big issue out of their good-faith attempt to add same-sex content even with their dwindling resources that would arguably better be spent on content like warzones, flashpoints, and operations.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Seumas]

Bioware hasn't been "Bioware" in quite awhile, sadly.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Because I'm sure its so damn hard to turn on a flirt macro globally instead of locally. If only the team hadn't been cut down they'd have twice as many people to find that line of code.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Anonymous Coward]

It has nothing to do with macros... It is about voice acted dialog with NPCs. Its not a simple line of code when you have to go back and record a hundred or two lines of dialog for each of the dozens of possible crew members, as well as any quest related characters on this planet.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[TheLink]

And because of the commercial unsuccessfulness of their game it may make sense to have it all on one planet/server. When I last trialed the game, the server populations were rather low. Finding people to do stuff with wasn't that easy. Yes there were people around, but only a subset of those would want to team up with random people. So if you wanted to be gay in game and were looking for like-minded people (for more fun) you'd have even more difficulty if you weren't all on one server.

FWIW when the trial ended I didn't really feel a sense of loss. So even with the F2P options I'm not sure if I'd bother trying it out again. The PvE and PvP gameplay was boring to me. And yes I've had someone show me a lot of lev 50 PvP, hutt ball and all that for a few weeks. GW2's WvW stuff looks more interesting but if their player numbers drop that big WvW map is going to be an even bigger ghost town unless they can have decent AI NPCs to help out if there aren't enough on one side.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Luckyo]

Bioware that makes SWTOR was known as "Mythic" before they were brought in by EA and fused into Bioware to take advantage of the brand.

So you're very much correct. Bioware's brand has been diluted harshly by EA that chose to use the well-known brand as a rubber stamp on games that had little to do with the original studio that made the name what is was.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Even when I thought this might be a legitimate story, I mostly felt sad that people cared about relationships in a video game.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Anonymous Coward]

And people wonder why most games don't have this type of content. Because of backlash like this from LGBT groups that claim the game doesnt have ENOUGH same sex content. Developers are more likely to avoid the issue entirely than deal with this. Bioware legitimately tried to follow through on their promise to add same sex dialog content and now people attack them for only adding it on their new expansion planet rather than going back and recording voices retroactively for the dozens of other planets already out there. This article is such a knee jerk misinterpretation of the story its unreal.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

It's also easy to grandstand and yell it should have all been gamewide, and since day 1...when it's not your hundred million dollar investment. All it takes is one big group to make a fuss and suddenly you're pushing the Gay Agenda(tm) on the children -- think of the children!

Losing 10% or more of potential sales, well...be glad they're floating this trial balloon.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[loufoque]

This should have been publicized more.
I actually thought it was really Bioware that made it.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[realityimpaired]

I don't understand why the submitter is taking such an offensive stance with their post

Pure sensationalism, nothing more. A rational headline wouldn't get clicks.

Though there may also be an element of feeling slighted that it wasn't included from the word Go. As you say, Bioware was one of the first game publishers to include same sex options in a wide variety of their games, including the original KOTOR games that TOR is based on. I was certainly surprised that queer options weren't in the game from the start, as that's something I've come to expect from Bioware.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Anonymous Coward]

And people wonder why most games don't have content. Because of backlash like this from dumb people, that may or may not be members of larger groups, claiming the game doesnt have ENOUGH content that appeals to them, often regardless of how much it actually does.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Anonymous Coward]

It was. Making an MMO is a very large job, though, so you are bound to have to go on a hiring spree. It would actually have been a much better game if Bioware had not been allowed to be the guys calling the shots. Story is good. Story is great. However, if you are making an MMO, you have to get the MMO parts working and then you can add your story stuff - the other way around does not work. Did you realize that, to this day, SWTOR does not have a ready check function? That's like a car without a windshield - who would do that? Someone who knows story but who is just learning about MMOs. Originally Bioware wanted to make their instances once-through only - you were not supposed to be able to repeat them on a character, because logically in the story that doesn't make sense. If you know anything about MMOs you know that in MMOs you need repeatable content. Bioware apparently didn't know that initially.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[Rakarra]

before they were brought in by EA

Ugh, kiss of death right there.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[AlamedaStone]

You need to check your heteronormative privilege. Portraying the full spectrum of human sexuality is more important than making a game "fun".

Those aren't mutually exclusive qualities to the majority of people who don't harbor hatred in their hearts.

Heathen.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[AlamedaStone]

Even when I thought this might be a legitimate story, I mostly felt sad that people cared about relationships in a video game.

The only thing more sad would be people not caring about relationships even in a video game.

Re:Inflammatory headline

[DoctaWatson]

Not to nitpick, but I'm gonna nitpick:

A. There are no gay relationships in Baldur's Gate or Baldur's Gate 2, by default. They have to be enabled with a 3rd party tool that strips out gender check for those NPC conversations.

B. Bioware didn't even make the original Baldur's Gate.

C. The first gay romance option in a Bioware game was Liara in Mass Effect in 2007. The first gay male romance options in a Bioware game were in Dragon Age in 2009.

Jar Jar Binks

[RedHackTea]

Queen of Makeb.

Because.

[Seumas]

The only thing keeping your precious little boy from sucking on a cock is a trivial interaction in a stupid video game.

Is there a planet just for the atheists to play? I mean, you wouldn't want your precious little babies fake-breathing the same virtual air as a non-believer, would you?! For that matter, maybe there better be a separate planet to relegate the "obviously jewy" players who have names containing "burg" and "stein" in them.

Re:Because.

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually think your point is not entirely valid. When I was a kid, I did things like swear and go places I wasn't supposed to, mostly out of a desire to match the experiences of the people I was exposed to. Otherwise, half that shit wouldn't have occurred to me.

There's people who believe that being gay is genetically predetermined, and there are others who think it is something more environmental. Honestly, if I had a kid, and there was the least chance that I feel that I could prevent them from being gay through environmental influences, I would. While there may be nothing wrong with it, it's a social burden that they might not need to take on.

I honestly have no idea what the cause of being gay is, and I certainly wouldn't try to change them if they ended up having that orientation, but I see no reason that it needs to be encouraged either. I understand that some people want a game that reflects their preferences, but I don't see how it is an advantage to me or a child to have to share your preferences, even if I believe that you have a right to your own.

Re:Because.

[Anonymous Coward]

In an increasingly gender-imbalanced world, soon enough progressive and unselfish parents will be trying to turn their little boys gay (probably through hormone treatments to the fetus) for the sake of their own happiness. I think even Gen. X'ers will see it in their lifetime.

Re:So No Cure

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but if you had used your spellchecker, you would have known that desease is not a word.

So, hold up...

[bistromath007]

Is this worse than the race of strippers with head-tails, or pretty much the same?

Re:So, hold up...

[Anonymous Coward]

Only a few Twi'lek were exotic dancers. Some where even great power brokers in the Galactic Senate.

Re:So, hold up...

[Luckyo]

I'm not a lore master of star wars, but from what I've seen in KOTOR (1,2, SWTOR) twileks are basically modeled on blacks in USA. They're mostly slaves and low education level workers in the universe, but some of them do get to climb to power. But these are exceptions to the rule.

Re:So, hold up...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nerd!

Get off the horse, dongleberry

[fey000]

Seriously, you are calling Bioware regressive for not adding "enough" gay material? If you want to fork in the money for the development teams, I'm pretty sure they'd be happy to rewrite the entire game to allow for homosexual relationships with all companions (assuming the Jedi are okay with that, but they fight with glowing vibrators, so it's probably all good).
Otherwise, they are most likely busy working on content that the entire playerbase can enjoy, you know, the kind of development that generates income.

In summary, get off the high horse, and realize that a mole-hill is not a mountain. If you need further clarification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molehill != http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain (not to be confused with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokeback_Mountain).

Re:Get off the horse, dongleberry

[Tridus]

If they have to "rewrite the entire game" to add dialog options and some more lines of voice acting, then they're doing it very, very wrong.

Besides, hetero relationships aren't possible with all the companions, so there was no expectation that every single one would be available for same-sex relationships either.

How is this a regressive move?

[Anonymous Coward]

i don't get it.
The rep came out and said "It is proving to be harder to do then we expected" which makes sence as nearly every NPC in that game has unique vocal dialoge that would need to be re-done or tweaked. So insted they're implimenting it from this point going forward, which so far is 1 planet.
No where do they say "This is the only planet it'll be allowed on!" but instead just "here's the first planet it's enabled on."

Re:So No Cure

[ZombieBraintrust]

Sorry, but if you had used your spellchecker, you would have known that desease is not a word.

lol there is no cure for my ignorance.

Rishrathra planet next?

[dpilot]

So when are they going to add a planet for rishrathra?

Re:Rishrathra planet next?

[locopuyo]

I don't think ringworlds count as planets.

Re:Rishrathra planet next?

[vlm]

So when are they going to add a planet for rishrathra?

I believe they called that "second life". Something like a decade ago /. had a story on SL like every other day. I distinctly remember it was the "first" "major" game that required more than W98 it required W2000 or better which was highly unusual at that time. Then they banned everything everyone could remotely be offended by (cybersex, pr0n, gambling, basically everything that makes life worth living) leaving no one with any reason to go there anymore. Not sure if its even still up. Might check into it for laughs.

One thing I remember was it was pretty much the minecraft of the 00s. Wanna see a giant "life size" star trek enterprise? We gots one. Etc.

It was the kind of place where if you were not fascinated for at least 50 hours exploring, there was something wrong with your curiosity level, but after 50 or so hours it got kinda repetitive and boring, so...

I remember the funniest thing about SL was it banned real names, everyone had to use a psuedonym with a very short list of last name psudonyms. Lots of whining about that. I used "Turbo Pascal" because I wrote stuff on Borlands miracle ide back in the 80s on my first ibm pc xt (or was it the at clone?). Anyway I had a continuous stream of people coming up to me on SL and commenting "hey, I bet you don't know this, but there's was a compiler named after you". Yeah no kidding, that's exactly why I selected the name... so I stopped using that name. Oh well.

Re:Rishrathra planet next?

[Bing Tsher E]

I believe Second Life even has thriving BDSM communities these days. The sex is everywhere, I am told. Have never been there, personally.

It could have been worse...

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of shipping them off to the prison planet, they wanted to make all gay characters wear little pink triangles.

PR speak decryptor

[Anonymous Coward]

"Unfortunately, this will take a lot more work than we realised at the time and it (like some other pieces of content we talked about earlier in the year) has been delayed as we focused on the changes required to take the game Free-to-Play."

Because you shmucks wouldn't subscribe to the game we had to cut all the budgets except Lucas's and the C-Level execs and gut everything that was moderately decent about the game (or promised) to give you any sort of update.

penis

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, th-thanks Jewish m-media. I'll check my cis p-privilege after my morning coffee, I p-promise.

Misleading much...

[Sir_Sri]

Same gender relationships are new content to TOR. New content goes in new places. Trying to back add it into existing content would be a nightmare. It's not that Markab is the 'gay'planet, it's that it's the first planet going forward that supports what they are calling SGR. And all future planets likely will as well.

There are two basic problems with trying to add SGR into existing content

First: Cost. TOR has been an epic financial failure. Trying to rehire a bunch of voice actors, add in appropriate points for them to have SGR dialogue etc. is a lot of work, and importantly:

Second: What do you do for characters that have already done the content you're changing? For good or ill, your character has made a series of choices throughout the game that set the state of that characters relationships (notably with companions). Building huge content branches where you can either change after the fact, or only effect new characters is certainly possible, but it's a lot of work for content a lot of players aren't going to see.

Besides that, as was said, BioWare didn't really understand just what it was getting itself into with an MMO, and discovering after the fact that this is going to take a lot longer than they thought necessarily means making some compromises. And the longer it goes on without SGR the harder it becomes to fix because there will be more players who've gone through the existing content because they've given up waiting on the developers.

Re:Misleading much...

[Luckyo]

As a semi-casual player, I think I can answer the question on replaying content. Replaying content is the core of SWTOR. They even made a legacy system which specifically requires you to play through the game time and time again to get rewards. Vast majority of their content and essentially most if not all of the interesting content is in the personal stories, which require you to keep replaying the game time and time again to see.

It's simply the way the game is made. It's also why so many of us were confused at F2P model which gave the best content for free, and tries to charge for content that is sub-par (such as end game).

Re:Misleading much...

[Billly Gates]

I love SWTOR.

It is only a failure because EA is giving up on it too soon. Yes at launch it had issues compared to WOW. It is not fair it was not as mature as WOW as it is 7 years old. IT has improved with a flashpoint finder, more dailies, more balanced PVP etc. SWTOR has things brand new in MMOs too which I like.

I disagree it is new content. What about the dialogue with your companions that is already done? Just voice edit it and enable gay mode in the menus in the game? Most straight players do not want to see the flirt options with other same sex characters anyway and it should disabled by default.

Then have the same sex content available with more than companion scenes in the new planet if the user selects it on. Putting it back in is free or very little cost with the companions. Just edit the sounds of the existing straight conversions with the new voice replying back.

Re:Misleading much...

[Sir_Sri]

That's on a new character.

You don't replay the same (story) content on the same character.

And most players don't want to keep making new characters. Also, the leveling curve is short enough a lot of people already full leveled one of each.

Re:Misleading much...

[Sir_Sri]

It is only a failure because EA is giving up on it too soon.

No, it's a failure because the producers of the game thought that the first 100 hours of play experience mattered more than the next 900.

Yes at launch it had issues compared to WOW. It is not fair it was not as mature as WOW as it is 7 years old.

SWTOR sold about 2 million copies in its first 2 months, it's down around a 10th of that in players. People wanted the game to be good. It definitely made improvements, but they made enough basically bad choices that it wasn't worth putting up with for 75 or 80% of their playerbase. That wasn't EA's money pile, that was bad design, and when those people left their non-chalant guildmates left with them.

I disagree it is new content. What about the dialogue with your companions that is already done? Just voice edit it and enable gay mode in the menus in the game? Most straight players do not want to see the flirt options with other same sex characters anyway and it should disabled by default.

A new armour model is new content. A new line of dialogue is new content.

They *could* put SGR dialogue on existing things. But that would then only effect new characters or they'd need a system to go back and redo existing plot with a character. And it requires basically redoing huge amounts of dialogue. A gay flirt option doesn't do any good if it doesn't actually create a story branch. That means new dialogue, new cinematics etc. Adding it for existing characters may mean you need to divorce a current romance (whole new dialogue for the rest of the game to have your divorced spouse on your ship).

Just edit the sounds of the existing straight conversions with the new voice replying back.

uh...you need to script and record that dialogue, build in game scenes where appropriate. That costs money. A lot of it.

It's not that it cannot be done, but it's a lot of money and developer time.

Re:Misleading much...

[Luckyo]

You just listed the reasons why SWTOR failed. Because it needed you to want to do these things. That's where games strengths are.

And as you point out, most people do not want to do these things. That's likely the single biggest factor in SWTOR's failure.

Re:Misleading much...

[tnk1]

Yeah, I think the point was: We can't get enough people to want to flirt with the hetero characters, and now you want to spend a lot of money to cater to an even smaller segment of the market? That's inclusive and all, but your more inclusive game is about to become a much shorter lived, inclusive game.

I pretended to play a chick with tentacles coming out of my head. You can pretend to be heterosexual. Or if you really want to get it on with the sex of your choice, then play the opposite sexed character from your own. It's not like you actually have to watch them get it on. It's dialogue. You still get to have the hot manly guy flirt with you.

Re:Misleading much...

[tnk1]

I did want to play through most of the stories, and I did level 4 classes, but yes, once you do that... you're really just done. It didn't take all that long to do it, and the end game was not well thought out. PvP was mildly fun for awhile, but the fact that you didn't get to pick what games you played, and most of the PvP was sort of "been there, done that", I didn't last long when I was done leveling.

I did like the dialogue, but I never felt that level of dialogue, combined with constant content additions, was going to be feasible for them long term. They pretty much needed to get it right from day one, and keep their populations high just to afford that level of value.

Re:Misleading much...

[tnk1]

You're right, it's not mature like WoW, but they didn't have to relearn the things that WoW had to learn by itself.

They didn't need to figure out cross-server areas/battlegrounds were desirable. WoW already showed that you want to have that. And indeed, when there was a contraction, it might have saved a lot of their player base who was left orphaned on their empty servers.

They didn't need to learn that UI customization was extremely desirable. WoW already showed that is wildly popular.

There's a whole set of lessons that they could have used to leapfrog WoW that they just didn't do. I understand that they might not have been used to running an MMO and there may have been things like balance or server crashes, but it's clear that they didn't learn any of the free lessons that were out there to learn. That began to annoy me, and certainly, I felt like I had returned to the past when playing a new game.

And you are missing the whole point when you say "just voice edit it". You can't make dialogue just appear out of thin air. Bioware made their dialogue fit the characters you were flirting with. You can't just use the flirty dialogue with another character to make it gay. It isn't generic. And "changing" the voiceovers is the same as hiring voice actors to create new voiceovers. It's an added expense.

Re:Misleading much...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do all new characters have to be on a new planet? Do new people never turn up on existing planets?

software.

[Jafafa Hots]

"Sorry, we can;t make the product that you've paid for do what we promised we would do so you would be able to use your purchase the way you want - we're too busy working on the task of making the product you paid for something that we can give to everyone else for free."

The software industry was the first to get away with shipping product known to be defective, at first using the "we'll fix it for you later" excuse, and then the "we'll make sure the NEW version works better, if you buy it... um, except for all of the new things that won't work."

Yeah, I know, this was a feature request and not a bug fix... but I see the software company influence pervading the actual hard PRODUCT market now too.

After all, what really is Newegg and Amazon feedback, often with bugfixes mentioned, driver updates, and techniques to get the product to work? It's handing part of the customer service work to the buyer, is what it is.

Re:software.

[athenaprime]

The majority of players did not seek out a Star Wars action/MMO game looking for a Dating Sim. It's a commercial product. It's not custom software.

"The software industry was the first to get away with shipping product known to be defective"
You've clearly never built a house... ;)

This summary is stupid.

[twocows]

I'm biased against EA, Bioware, and SWTOR. KotOR 2 is my favorite game ever (especially with TSLRCM), and I think SWTOR ruined the franchise beyond repair, like George did with the new trilogy. There's no going back, they already retconned like half the stuff form KotOR 2 and just labelled Kreia (a fantastic character with a lot of depth) a "crazy old woman." I doubt we'll ever get another KotOR game; this is probably the end, and for what? Yet another MMO moneygrab, and a buggy one at that. I think what EA did with this is absolutely shameful and I refuse to buy EA products now because of it.

That said, this summary is absolutely ridiculous. How is adding content that people requested (if only in a small chunk at first) "anti-gay?" The summary makes it sound like anyone who ever wanted same-sex options are forced to stay on one planet, which isn't the case at all; the content just hasn't been added to the other places yet. I don't know who wrote this summary, but they ought to be ashamed, too. There are plenty of bad things to say about SWTOR, EA, and Bioware that are actually true that nobody should need to make shit up.

Other features of the planet

[Hoi Polloi]

Other notable features of the planet will include lots of really cute boutique stores, constant thudding dance music at night, and day trips for antiques.

Now someone explain how the people on this planet reproduced before they developed biotechnology. Mitosis? Budding?

Space tourists, beware!

[felizago]

"Beware of the planet Faggotor, where the use of 'force' on your 'dark-side' is mandatory".

Planet Name

[kdogg73]

Uranus

Okay... I'm sorry. Don't be mad. I cringed too when it crossed my mind.

Re:Planet Name

[asylumx]

They've already probed Uranus, and they didn't like what they found. They found it was covered in methane and other gases. Also, it's sideways and the sun hasn't seen parts of it in 42 years. Not to mention, there are already pictures of it all over the internet. What a mess!

No safe answer here

[onyxruby]

They were in a bind on this with no safe way to do this at all. Make something that is politically correct in some parts of the world and you'll deeply offend other people in other parts of the world with different values. Different cultures simply don't share the same set of values and when we try to impose are values on other cultures it creates a lot of resentment.

It's a balancing act and Bioware is well aware of this. They tried to strike a balance and they were going to be damned no matter what they did. I'm not saying I had a better idea (I don't) on how to do this, but give them credit for trying. There's a country song out right now that's become popular that could just as well be relevant about this as well, "Southern Comfort Zone".

Re:No safe answer here

[Luckyo]

Considering how dialogue trees in games like SWTOR are formed, it would have been far easier to make an "enable homosexual content" toggle, and have designers flag all starting points of dialogue trees for homosexual content with specific flag.

And when the homosexual content is disabled, all dialogue trees that are flagged as being homosexual content simply do not get displayed. Reality is that romance, like most things that is decided in the SWTOR dialogue has no real impact on the surrounding world beyond the content of dialogue tree itself and immediate quest outcome.

Re:No safe answer here

[vlm]

Make something that is politically correct in some parts of the world and you'll deeply offend other people in other parts of the world with different values.

We need MMOs with more of this stuff, not less. I'd much rather see the fighting online than in the real streets.

separate is not equal

[SuperBanana]

Expanding sexual diversity in new content is not regressive.

Forcing anyone who isn't hetrosexual into one area is. Decades years ago we declared that separate is not equal.

Also, this is a video game for crying out loud. Chill the fuck out.

No. It's not hard to figure out why GLBT people might be upset about this. For many of them, they've been forced into little 'gardens' all their lives, either out of fear or it being the only option given to them. If you understand why "civil unions" piss off the GLBT community, you'll understand why one planet being The Gay Planet does.

They've made it clear that they want to make it a full option throughout the game, but you can't just snap your fingers and make that happen

Yes, actually. They could disable the gender restrictions with a patch to the game engine, for example. They won't do it because of the raging homophobia in the gaming community.

Re:separate is not equal

[Anonymous Coward]

Or how about the fact that they didn't record same-sex dialog for the original main characters and companions? The content isn't there, it isn't as easy as flipping a switch.

Oh no, it has to be homophobia...

Think.

Re:separate is not equal

[darkshot117]

Who is forcing non heterosexuals into one area? Nobody. This article is EXTREMELY biased and is completely misrepresenting the truth. Nobody is being forced anywhere, they are simply developing same-sex dialog stories into the new planet that they are releasing. They didnt have same sex storylines on previous planets, but from this point on they are adding it to all new planets, starting with this first one. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Re:separate is not equal

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Slow down there. I would strongly suggest you take a look at one of your sibling replies (http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3381197&cid=42582279). In a fully voiced game, which I am to understand SW:TOR is, this is a non-trivial thing to do. If the original voice talent is gone, that's an issue. If the way the game was programmed/built causes it to be difficult to add, that's an issue. It could be that there are known issues that could cause bugs to manifest or other issues in parts of the game that aren't new (ie: the new planet added for the new content was designed differently without the limitations). It might not be as simple as setting the "isGayAllowed" flag to true.

Now, some of that might point to poor programing practices, but that an anti-gay agenda does not make. Their alternative could very well have been not to include it _at all_ until it was completed for everywhere which could take even longer. It may also be that they're using the new planet to weed out bugs that this causes while trying to minimize the imact to the rest of the system which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

People like you who seem to regard computers as a magic box that you just taps some keys and make anything happen in a day on are a huge part of the problem. When someone _tries_ to do the right thing but it's an incomplete or work-in-progress solution you scream intolerance and "how dare they" instead of trying to understand why this might be the way it is. It'd be different if they didn't indicate that this was temporary, but they did.

"They could disable the gender restrictions with a patch to the game engine, for example."

See my above statement. A patch isn't a magical thing. It requires development and testing. It is doubtful, based on the statements made, that it's just a single flag nor is it likely as simple as you seem to believe it is.

Your "the GLBT community is being persecuted everywhar" attitude is just as damaging, or potentially moreso, than the ones railing against gay marriage and same sex relationships to begin with. People with your attitude make developers see trying to be supportive as too much effort for a lose-lose situation. Don't do it right out from the begining? You're evil. Try to add it later to correct an oversight but need to do some field-testing or it's harder to do system wide than you thought so the initial rollout isn't to everywhere at once? You're super evil because you're segregrating the populations because you're anti-gay even if you say this is an interim step. Roll it out everywhere but it breaks things in unexpected ways making the game unplayable? You're evil gay-lovers _and_ you broke your game. Respond to the above by removing the feature for further testing? Now you've evil intolerant bigots again.

I wouldn't blame any devs for saying F*** IT, we just won't do it at all.

And before you try to play the "you're just a gay hating bigot" card against me, some background:

I'm a developer. I'm a male. Some time ago I started a relationship with a wonder woman. We live together. A few months ago she told me she has always been somewhat uncomfortable in her own skin (something I actually already knew and was surprised that she hadn't realized). He's now starting her Female-to-Male transition process and I wouldn't trade him for the world.

Re:separate is not equal

[Glothar]

You shouldn't rage about things you don't understand.

No one is being put into a walled garden. The new planet added in the expansion is not "gay-only".

A new expansion is being released. It contains same-gender flirt options. That is all. The article is biased and the title is worse. Your reaction just puts you in the same room as Fox News. Research before you insult.

Re:separate is not equal

[Anonymous Coward]

Expanding sexual diversity ... is not regressive.

Yes, it is. Dogs screw anything, anywhere and at any time they feel like it. Moral codes are a sign of a sophisticated culture. Advocating the abolishment of moral standards is advocating the degeneration of society to a more primitive state.

Forcing anyone who isn't hetrosexual into one area is. Decades years ago we declared that separate is not equal.

"Forcing" anyone into one area is one thing although perfectly allowable for a game publisher, but allowing people to avoid content which is offensive to them is simply catering to a portion of a customer base. Hell, including homo content in the first place is catering to a portion of the customer base. If you don't like a game, then don't play it. And quit trying to equate race with sexual behavior.

Also, this is a video game for crying out loud. Chill the fuck out.

The video game industry is a combatant in the culture war. The more video games have become associated with the film industry, the more this has become true. There is nothing accidental about putting gay content in video games in order to promote further support for the gay agenda.

No. It's not hard to figure out why GLBT people might be upset about this.

No it isn't. The radical left does not tolerate opposition and GLBT activists don't ask for a "live and let live" attitude. Instead they demand everyone praise and celebrate homosexuality and declare it to be normal. Nothing but the full capitulation of the culture to the gay agenda will suffice and, once that is accomplished, then the radical left will demand that other sexual deviancies be treated as normal.

For many of them, they've been forced into little 'gardens' all their lives, either out of fear or it being the only option given to them.

Freedom of association includes the freedom not to associate. Why do you hate the freedom of others? Also, nobody forces you to be gay or to advertise your sexual behavior so spare us all your attempt to portray yourself as a helpless victim.

If you understand why "civil unions" piss off the GLBT community,

Gays are pissy bitches who throw tantrums whenever society doesn't submit to their every demand. Selfish. Narcissistic. Assholes. Easy enough to understand.

They won't do it because of the raging homophobia in the gaming community.

Game publishers want to sell their games in order to make money. Why should they drive some of their customers away by loading their games up with faggotry?

Re:separate is not equal

[Rakarra]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Slow down there. I would strongly suggest you take a look at one of your sibling replies (http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3381197&cid=42582279). In a fully voiced game, which I am to understand SW:TOR is, this is a non-trivial thing to do. If the original voice talent is gone, that's an issue

I remember when SWTOR came out much was made that it was a fully-voiced game, which just sounded a bit more like an annoyance to me. But the above situation sounds like one of the truly great weaknesses of a fully-voiced game -- it seems like a pretty big limitation. You can't change the game over time (something which is pretty important for an MMO) due the additional cost of recording new dialogue. That works for single-player games, or just games that are complete on launch.

I wouldn't blame any devs for saying F*** IT, we just won't do it at all.

Or you could do it from the beginning! We all know what the original decision was, and I suspect the original poster's anger comes from the decision the devs made -- which is better to annoy? non-heterosexuals, or bigots who would be truly offended that these options even exist? The anger comes because the decision was: they'd rather placate the bigots, at least on launch.

Then again, I wouldn't be really offended due to the ridiculous nature of Star Wars's "planet of hats" syndrome anyway (and it goes double for Star Trek). This sort of thing fits well into the trope that they already established.

Re:separate is not equal

[Anonymous Coward]

Some time ago I started a relationship with a wonder woman. ... He's now starting her Female-to-Male transition process and I wouldn't trade him for the world.

That makes you even weirder than she is.

Re:separate is not equal

[hackula]

Sounds like a closet case if I have ever heard one. One day, Anonymous Coward, you will be free to express who you really are without the self loathing and shame.

Re:separate is not equal

[AlamedaStone]

Who is forcing non heterosexuals into one area? Nobody. This article is EXTREMELY biased and is completely misrepresenting the truth. Nobody is being forced anywhere, they are simply developing same-sex dialog stories into the new planet that they are releasing. They didnt have same sex storylines on previous planets, but from this point on they are adding it to all new planets, starting with this first one.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Makes complete sense. They are so committed to story integrity that you have to wade through 50 levels of hetero content (guys, there are a LOT of flirting dialogue options in this fscking game, even for Jedi) before you're allowed to be gay. Over there. Where good, wholesome, Christian Sith and bounty hunters can't see you doing your filthy business.

If they were actually committed from the beginning, they would have the dialogue written for all the content already. They'd have put the hooks in the code to drop in voice content when they could afford it. They could have prepared, and instead they made excuses, and delayed, and dragged their feet. I don't know why, but I don't actually care why either. They tried to boost sales by hocking to the gay crowd and then dumped us after release. Fuck 'em, I'm out.

Re:separate is not equal

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps when they invent time travel BioWare can go back in time and get the same-sex dialog written and recorded in time for the initial release... you know, to avoid offending anyone later when it apparently becomes a problem.

Re:separate is not equal

[YodasEvilTwin]

Forcing anyone who isn't hetrosexual into one area is

They're not doing that. Do you play the game? Do you play the vast majority of games that have no gay characters at all, much less gay romances? This applies to your second point as well. Adding something is a step up from nothing. At the risk of acknowledging your absurd point about segregation, I'd like to point out that segregation was still better than slavery was. Try to claim that slavery wasn't worse, I dare you.

They could disable the gender restrictions with a patch to the game engine, for example.

No, they can't. All relationships are nuanced with specific dialog written for specific characters, and ALL dialog in the game is voiced. All of it. You'd be equally outraged if they had your male character saying the female character's lines out of context in a female's voice to a male companion. Instead they are working towards including fully unique and voiced romances starting with new content. Again, they cannot snap their fingers and all of the old content will magically be revised. It will take time and a lot of effort.

You obviously know nothing of the game or this patch. Next time read more than the article summary.

finally...

[Shivetya]

all those guys playing female Jedi can chase Kira and have her talk dirty to them....

Diversion

[ButchDeLoria]

EA's been using its very very recent pro-LGBTQ stance to just thinly veil the fact that $300 million was spent on this atrocity of a tribute to the Titanic film.

You guys needs to grow up.

[Anonymous Coward]

It is THEIR game and they can do anything they want with it. If you dont like it then dont play it, it really is that easy. But oh no, everyone thinks if something isnt as they think it should be then they complain and try to change it. Well did you ever stop and think that when you tell others what to think or do that youre just being a facist jerk? Were supposed to be free in this country, that means free to do as you want. So if they want to make a planet for gay characters right or wrong its their choice and when you say its wrong youre trying to take away their choice.

Thats the problem with people who preach freedom because they only want the freedom to make things how they think it should be. And everyone preaches tolerance when you guys obviously arent being tolerant, you only want others to tolerate you but you dont want to tolerate them. Hell if bioware wants to make a KKK game then they should be allowed to without complaint because they are supposed to be free to do as they wish and were supposed to be tolerant enough to accept them and their decisions.

So if you dont like it then dont play it and shut up. Stop trying to conedemn others, focus on your own life and mind your own business for christ sake.

Re:You guys needs to grow up.

[vlm]

Well did you ever stop and think that when you tell others what to think or do that youre just being a facist jerk?

The funniest defense against contract law I've ever seen. They don't want an opinion, they shouldn't ask for money.

Companions?

[Billly Gates]

The point of relationships is only companions can get intimate enough with your characters. The others are just flirts.

I think gay and lesbian players would want a RT with someone they are close too in the game. I do not liek the gay planet idea. It will discourage straight players from going there and it means homophobia for the rest of the galaxy. In real life gay and lesbian people exist everwhere and I think in the dialoge would be great if the user went into the advanced settings to enable. By default keep it straight.

That way it is non offensive and kid friendly and nice for those who want a female character but have no men hitting on them either :-)

Re:Companions?

[AlamedaStone]

Actually, this is a brilliant point. A friend who bought the game with me for release had mixed feelings about gay content, but what really bothered him was constantly feeling like he was "supposed" to be hitting on all the women he came across. He wanted a toggle for NPCs flirting with him, because they were never cute guys and he'd rather just not have it at all.

A feature like this would have been a good way to plan for future inclusion of gay content, instead of the ways they did prepare, like by... um... promising to do something? Actually, it's clear now that they did zero to prepare for this. The technical problems they're facing are proof of that. It was all just EA doubleplus marketspeak, and that's the real problem here.

Re:Companions?

[Anonymous Coward]

An MMO is a monumentous task. I think it got overlooked as many features in SWTOR were released later as EA pushed for a rush for Christmas.

Adding gay content would be cheaper to the storylines as kylio (example) could do the same flirtations with a woman as she normally does a man with pre-recorded dialogue. The talk of babies and offspring might be a little awkward though to squeeze in.

Your friend would have to reroll to romance the other male characters though again to start over. Especially if he is married to a women in the game or if the romance option is turned off as he refused to acknowledge being hit on by Mako.

Sounds like creating a female character is the closest for a gay guy if he can get used to having boobs. :-)

But, perhaps companions first and then be able to flirt with characters on the new world. I do agree same sex flirtation options should not be default for most people as we know it is inappropriate in real life to hit on someone of the same sex unless you know they are gay or lesbian as it makes people uncomfortable.

Re:Easy solution

[Billly Gates]

Put the option in the menus. By default it is off. Turn it on and options appear.

Sounds like a solution rather than spending money with same sex content and acting.

Nothing to see, move along

[Gibgezr]

Adding in extra story choices/dialog/voiceovers/animations to support new "flirts" is a big job. It has NOTHING to do with whether the "flirt" is homosexual or heterosexual (or robosexual!), the extra work is there with every "flirt" they add. Going back and making the old encounters support more "flirts" is a big job, one that they don't have the resources to do right now, especially as the original voice actors would have to be recalled.

Whoever labelled their commitment to adding homosexual flirtations to new encounters an 'oddly regressive move' is an idiot.

It sure sounds like you're trying to troll....

[Anonymous Coward]

But giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Star Wars has enough dark elements. Assuming that science could alter and link a person to exactly the kind of mate they would prefer, it seems unlikely they'd stop with gender. They would probably pick exactly the functional mate, blocky with big child bearing hips, and a strong brow... and make sure this was the only kind of person you could flirt with. It's like Gattica, only darker.

That's not Star Wars. Star wars is the bar into which they chased the assassin that tried to kill Padme. It's enormous diversity on an unimaginable scale. It's life, out of control, but civilized.

So to answer the idea you suggest, the technology for a governing body to exactly control your mate selection process doesn't belong in the Star Wars universe.

Perhaps romances among the Clone Army clones work the way you suggest... just not in the way you want. :)

Re:It sure sounds like you're trying to troll....

[maxwell demon]

It's like Gattica, only darker.

Gattaca.

There's no base starting with I. Only A, T, C and G (and U if you add RNA; however the makers of the movie obviously didn't consider that).

However when choosing the name, they ignored the rule that bases come in groups of three. So a better name would have been "Gataca", with only one "t".

Re:It sure sounds like you're trying to troll....

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool. I didn't know that.

Re:It sure sounds like you're trying to troll....

[Mindcontrolled]

There actually is. It is called inosine, commonly abbreviated with I and present in tRNAs. Makes wobble pairs with A, U and C. Allows for the translation of 61 non-stop codons with 45 or less tRNAs.

Re:It sure sounds like you're trying to troll....

[maxwell demon]

Learned something new today, thank you.

Re:It sure sounds like you're trying to troll....

[Mindcontrolled]

Once in a year, the biochemistry geeks get their 5 seconds in the spotlight ;)

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

It has nothing to do with flipping a switch, its about developing VOICE ACTED CONTENT for all NPC characters who have flirt options.

Re:Problem fixed

[Billly Gates]

EA has been quietly repairing the issues at launch. Remember it is a new game unlike WOW.

EA did 2 merges and the remaining servers are now heavily populated. They cut them down by HUGe numbers and auto merged your old characters in new realms. In addition, SWTOR now has a flashpoint finder and social points for social gear if you play in groups. A MUCH NEEDED feature that I wish was there at lunch.

Try again. You can play for free to try it out. It is a much better game and I wish people would stop bashing it. In many ways it came with features not available in other MMOs. The companions and a pvp where you score points by tanking and healing are indeed unique even if it was not tuned at first. I tried GW2. I did not like it and it felt like WOW with more primptive options but prettier artsy graphics. But that is just my taste.

Well MMO players are gay

[Anonymous Coward]

At least half the general chat messages I saw in WoW were people calling each other fags, so it stands to reason half of all MMO players are gay. Bioware is just trying to capture this market.

Re:Well MMO players are gay

[GameboyRMH]

I've also seen a lot of homosexual necrophilia going on in FPSes, most notably the Halo series.

I felt a great disturbance in the Force

[Chucky_M]

As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Homoerotic Star Wars jokes.

[Snufu]

Go.

This isn't "regressive"

[cfalcon]

This is a bit long, but I don't see anyone else saying it, so I will. I power-played this game from launch to max level, and then for a few months after, until it was obvious my friends weren't going to keep at it- the TLDR version is that this isn't about shitting on gays at all, but instead money. Ok here's why:

If you play the main plot of TOR, you quickly find out that each of the four "base classes" on each "empire" or "republic" side (so eight base classes total) has their own plotline. Each plotline takes you through the same planets in the same order as the other base classes in your faction, with the exception that each faction has two starting planets- one for the Jedi/Sith, and the other for the tech heroes.

For instance: if you are a smuggler, you begin by pulling into the same planet that the Troopers start on, and your ship gets stolen. You then fall in with a kind of small time crime boss, and when he is assassinated his right-hand man becomes yours.

The smuggler can become a "scoundrel" or a "gunslinger"- the two "advanced classes". The "scoundrel" has a shotgun that has close ranged positional attacks, and a stealth belt, as well as some brawler type moves. You also gain some heals. The "gunslinger" has a belt that creates a portable force-field cover that can knock people back, and they use two weapons. The "scoundrel" is essentially a rogue with a healing spec, and the "gunslinger" is kind of a ranger or archer role. Which you pick has NO RELEVANCE on your plot, even though they play differently.

The "trooper" can become two types of thing as well (a character with a shield generator and the best armor who can tank or deal damage, or a character with a super advanced huge gun who can deal damage or use the gun to heal), as can the "Jedi Knight" (dual wield damage guy or single wield guy who can tank) and the "Jedi Consular" (force caster/healer or a stealthy two-bladed light saber guy). Both of these start on the planet with the Jedi Academy.

Meanwhile, on the Sith side, all of these choices are mirrored- the Imperial Agent can become an "Operative", who has the exact same powers as the "Scoundrel", or a "Sniper", who has the same powers as the "Gunslinger". But all the "Imperial" side plots are TOTALLY DIFFERENT than the Republic ones- there are EIGHT total paths you can follow in this game, based on all eight character types you can start the game with (Sith Inquisitor, Jedi Consular, Sith Warrior, Jedi Knight, Imperial Operative, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Trooper). As you play through, you get "companion characters"- you get one very early, and then others as you play through your plotline. You can have one with your character at most times, but you can't hang out with all of them at once unless you are on your ship. Each has a series of mini plotlines that you can play through.

Importantly, THESE ARE THE CHARACTERS YOU CAN BE ROMANTIC WITH. In your plotline, you meet some NPCs that are just mentioned once or twice, and that will attempt to seduce you, or you can attempt to seduce them. That's not what anyone who wanted same-sex relations in this game was hoping for, and that's what this planet seems to be offering. The companion characters are all individually voice acted by professional actors and have a ludicrous number of things they can say, ways they can respond, etc. It is seriously high production value.

As an example: My smuggler is female. The first guy you meet, Corso Riggs, is a possible "romantic companion" for a female smuggler. Your wookie companion is not, and neither are the female companions or the fish-head alien. If you accept Corso's advances, he will prove to you that he's both desired by others and totally into just you, a reasonably common romance novel thing, and you can even marry him. A male character has similar options with his two female companions- for instance, Akavi Spaar, a rough and tumble alien warrioress, can fall for your advances, as can Risha, a human woman.

So everyone was expecti

Um...

[Anonymous Coward]

How exactly does a gay planet keep up its reproductive life cycle?

Do they adopt from Asian planets?

Re:Um...

[LandGator]

Read ETHAN OF ATHOS (review) by Lois McMaster Bujold, the first author to avoid turning a *GAY* planet into a collection of one-dimensional characters.

Chewie...

[Lorem_Ipsum]

Would have been much easier to allow everywhere and let the individual players block incomming "flirtatious" dialogue for their own character(s). That way you could block or allow all such dialogue if you wanted, or just for your specific "female protocol droid" preference.

...turn on the gaydar jammer, would you?

Other planets

[Anonymous Coward]

Black people planets, Muslim Planets, Tumblr planets, goatse_troll planets, Jew planets, Atheist planets, Godwin's planets.

In scifi, anyone can have a planet, on planet earth, we have to share.

Have you actually played the game?

[SmallFurryCreature]

The flirt options apply ONLY to quest givers NOT to your companions, your companions are STILL restricted to hetero only relationships, the handful that even are romancable.

Quest givers are typically only encountered once or twice so the "flirt" option is just an extra choice like taking a "joking, serious, brutal" response most of which don't matter really because it is an MMORPG so you take the quest anyway. This is NOT the romance options as some remember them with your party members developing relationships.

And the game supported an if(male) then flirt else talk construct already ALL they had to do is right at the start is flirt(gender) and instead of writing a neutral same gender line, write a flirt same gender line. That doesn't take a lot of coding. They purposely left it out because they feared the reaction of Americans and probably the French.

Now the game is out of the headlines, adding it can't ruin the game (commercially) anymore then the game was already ruined. Note that initially they never gave a deadline for adding it.

The quest giver flirt is NOT deep well written dialogue, this isn't about exploring gender relationships in a galaxy far far away, it is the lightest most boorish flirting that in the real world will just be met with derision.

And again supporting gender specific chat is TRIVIAL, they already did it for races and professions. The flirt options are so rare anyway, it would barely have added to the work load for the voice artists. And as said, the writers instead of writing a same sex flirt line had to write a same sex neutral line, so where is the difference?

Re:Problem fixed

[tnk1]

The problem is, there's lots of games to play out there. You get one chance at getting it right when you have that sort of competition. TOR did pretty much copy WoW, but what they failed to do was to actually use that to their advantage. It was like they stopped playing WoW in the first year and copied that, instead of learning all of the lessons that Blizzard learned for them.

When I played TOR, I had fun and the companions were useful and the dialogue was cool, but honestly, it was missing most of the stuff that I expected a modern MMO to have. Of course the final straw was when the player numbers contracted and suddenly there was no one around to do anything. Sure, they figured it out eventually, but then it was too late. I wasn't going to keep paying a monthly fee to play with the same small and shrinking group of people, on the same battlegrounds or whatever.

I told them in my "exit interview" email that I might come back for F2P, but I'd probably only really consider it if my friends returned. As it is, they have moved on, and I've decided that I really don't find MMO's worth the effort anyway, because in the end, your years of grinding end up becoming sort of pointless. I don't really feel that there's any way to really leave a mark on any of these worlds, which is about the only reason I would have to pursue them independently, as opposed to just playing a single player game.

MMO makers *cannot* do what you can do with single player games. If you buy a single player game, you can put it down and wait for a patch. In an MMO, especially one with a monthly fee like TOR used to have, the game needs to be ready *now*, or you start questioning why you maintain your subscription.

Now if you want to get to the point of the article, I think one of the nice things about TOR, which was the voice actors and dialogue, was actually a detriment in this case. You're not going to be able to just add in new romance options without redoing voice overs, and that's expensive. And that goes for everything in the game. If you make a new area or quest line, you either need a similar level of production values/voice acting/writing, or you're going to feel like the game has gotten cheaper.

TOR was not a bad game, it just wasn't good enough to make me overlook its flaws. I will say, however, that in the end, I doubt the romance options were anything approaching its real issues as a game.

Rainbow Lightsabers

[Jellodyne]

This planet sounds like it will be separate but equally gay.

Re:Problem fixed

[TheLink]

I actually play GW1. I like being able to play an entire team in PvE :). Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt4EgedY22s

The PvP was more interesting too[1]. Was... It's kinda dead now due to there being a lack of players, in GW1 there is no way to queue for PvP while doing other more interesting stuff in game instead of just standing around waiting for enough people to stand around... To be fair it's not so easy to allow queuing for PvP while doing something else - because a build that works in PvP might not work well in PvE (but that's where the other 7 heroes in your team come in I guess ;) ).

I've seen a fair bit of GW2, I don't think I'd like it that much. I agree with you that it feels more WoW like. To me GW2, WoW and SW:ToR are more similar to each other than to GW1. Will be a shame when they pull the plug on GW1.

[1] Guild vs Guild: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWE-eV3k-1E&list=PL51018CD195E42988
Fort Aspenwood (PvP+PvE kinda): (Kurzick/defense) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO4fiH3VvVE
(Luxon/offense) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzW8v8DxUrs
Jade Quarry - where suicide bombing can actually work sometimes ;) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqCv_p_76kg

Separate but Equal is not Equal.

[Anonymous Coward]

Separate but Equal is not Equal.

Haven't we learned this yet?

Still a BAD game you mean

[SmallFurryCreature]

The complete and total failure of SWTOR will continue to be ignored by an industry that is stuck on the PC, hates PC gamers but can't optimize their games to run on decade old hardware. MMORPG's of old were MASSIVE games designed to make games from the Elder Scroll series seem claustrophobic. And, if you want to be nasty, just as empty and pointless. Star Wars Galaxies had HUGE planets with some sparse content strewn around (it actually had quest chains (outside the themeparks) but most were very obscure and rarely done, talked to lots of players that didn't even know about them).

Recently MMO's have changed such as that every meter of terrain will have been trodden on by everyone else on your server. In older games, you might actually find spots nobody had ever visited. of course that was partly because it had far fewer gamers but still. MMORPG's have tried to appeal to the Xbox crowd and failed to satisfy either their old core audience OR the new xbox kiddies.

SWTOR is a prime example of this and BIG piece of proof of this is that they did NOT include same gender romance options from the start. Everyone who talks about how costly or hard it is to fit it afterwards forgets that it would have cost NOTHING more to add it right form the start. Voice artists and writers are payed by the line so instead of a same-gender neutral line, they would have been payed for a same-gender flirt line. Neither is this complex writing this is flirting with QUEST GIVERS, NOT party members/companions.

The game instead gave an extremely bland experience, in gaming and story, geared towards young kids in the hope of not upsetting anyone and getting massive sales. It failed. In trying to appease everyone, it managed to please nobody. Oh the game has heavy loads on its servers, both of them. Mostly free players finishing their personal stories while all the time Bioware keeps tweaking the F2P exprience to try to squeeze the last dollars out of the game. Only 1 quickbar, 2 quickbars, now 4 quickbars. 2 playable characters, all existing characters playable (max 2 creatable over all servers) and now only 6 out of 8 per server playeble/creatable for preferred status players. GIVE IT UP ALREADY!

The game was simply for 6 years of development piss poor in every way.

• Primitive graphic engine with animation that makes The Secret World look fluid and totally out of date compared to Guild Wars 2.
• Low rez character textures even on PC's that could easily handle more, Lord of the Rings Online looked better, a game half a decade older.
• Bioware always re-used content but for SWTOR they went into overdrive EVERYTHING was re-used just with different palletes, once slightly curved cave pattern was present several times one each planet.
• Combat classes mirrored or recycled across sites making them play to much alike, useful for PvP (but that is boring anyway) boring in PvE.
• Simplistic moral story, no real going good/bad option, as a saintly Sith my story ended pretty much the same as a Sith so nasty Vader would puke.
• While each of the 8 classes has their personal story, most quests are shared across a faction, so if you want to pay all 8 classes and see their personal stories you have to wade through the same faction story line 4 times. And the faction story line is BAD. Really bad. So fucking bad it beggars believe.

  In SWTOR you are a hero, liberation/occupying a planet. Except NOTHING CHANGES. Ever. This is something most MMORPG's have to deal with, that the army you defeated as you hand in your quest is still standing there respawning often in sight. SWTOR however does it worse then most, the place is incredibly crowded AND you are supposed to be Jedi. At one point when you would make Vader your whipping boy, you are fighting union workers. COME ON!

  Lotro already went nuts with high level bunnies kicking your ass when you have defeated Nazgul and Elder Dragons as a full elf (read the book, a full elf is NOT a whimpy sickly character but can take on SEVERAL nazgu

Sick perverts

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't 'Hickman' be apologising for ADDING 'homosexuals' to the game?
Are they going to be allowed to be around little boys? Got to make it true to life, haven't we...

Re:So No Cure

[AlamedaStone]

Sorry, but if you had used your spellchecker, you would have known that desease is not a word.

lol there is no cure for my ignorance.

That is apparent.

Bioware and "Bioware"

[Anonymous Coward]

There's Bioware, the studio in Edmonton, and "Bioware", the generic EA label they decided to start slapping on new studios for no good reason (and have since apparently begun to back away from). The studio that did TOR is the latter type of Bioware; they used to be known as Mythic Entertainment, were name changed to "Bioware Mythic" (without pulling in any actual Bioware management or developers), and then were name changed back to Mythic Entertainment. Because that's how EA rolls. None of Bioware's talent, or at least no substantial amount of it, is involved with TOR.

So what? Still not d20

[darth_borehd]

I'm still mad that they changed the stats and game mechanics away from d20!

I'm still refusing it to play it for that reason alone. That's what made Knights of the Old Republic cool.

how many quadrillion?

[Anonymous Coward]

If ever there was a case for the building of the death star...

All or nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

Modern political correctness (the real version,not the casual joke version),like its forerunner in Chairman Mao's Cultural Revolution, doe snot allow partial compliance. Either you show enthusiastic support for every demand of the gay agenda,or else you are a horrible bigot, equal to a KKK member and to be ejected from any place of influence or responsibility.

More like go BEKAM gay over there...

[denzacar]

Named Makeb, the planet will be launched as part of the new Rise of the Hutt Cartel pack and will be the only place in the game where players can select "flirtatious" dialogue options with characters of the same gender.

Go to Makeb, bekaM gay.*






*There's a campaign slogan for Makeb tourist board in there somewhere.
Maybe a transparent postcard with Makeb printed on one side, read as bekaM from the other...

Star Wars is a kids movie

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are there even heterosexual romances in this? It was a kids movie and there is no reason for any of these adult themes to be in it. If some nuckleheads wanna make a nude patch for it that's another story, but it just seems weird to even include this stuff.

Who writes that kind of bullshit?

[GeekDork]

That whole homo-semi-erotic topic in SWOR is blown out of proportion by a small bunch of loud idiots.

What really happens is that (1) those idiots have been crying about Bioware not providing homo romances with companions since the day the beta started. Then, (2) Bioware is so kind as to look into it, and puts it on their todo list. Later, (3) the whole game has its business model revamped, which makes for a huge reprioritisation of future plans; this means that low-priority add-ons like 8 all-new written, voiced, posed companion stories go to the backburner.

Now, they are finally going to release a new planet and offer a few [flirt] options in the conversations. The original minority of smacktards feels emo and nobody listens to them and waaaaaah!, and the anti-gay idiots crawl out of their holes and make it out to be the new holocaust or something.

Some people need to be kicked off the internet. Seriously.

Why planet?

[Alarash]

Something I don't understand is why they have to limit that to a zone/planet, and not make it a client-side setting. If player A sends a flirty emote to, ohmygod, player B who is the same gender, I could choose to set my client so that it doesn't relay that emote. That doesn't seem to hard to code. I mean, if I can disable shouts and out of character channels, why not "gay emotes" ? Not that I would do it, but Bible Belt Jedi Mum might want to.

It's kind of sad this is a problem in the first place, but the solution seems simple.

Next patch

[Anonymous Coward]

Coming next: Planet for Blacks with an orbiting moon for Jews!

Most people apparently don't see a gay planet as the equivalent of enforced racial apartheid.

"Run, Forrest - RUN!!!" disprove these points

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3373637&cid=42572023

"Run, Forrest - RUN!!!" Disprove these points

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3373637&cid=42572023

This'll last an entire generation

[Anonymous Coward]

and then die out.

"..yeah I got it! Just put'em on their own planet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now all they have to do is blow that planet up once you get all of the gays on it, and you got a full fledged cliche in action!

Gay Gamers

[Anonymous Coward]

"I theorize that the rate of homosexuality among the geeks n' gamers crowd is probably higher than in the general population"

I would have thought the opposite. Most games seem to be violence based, big shoot 'em ups with macho militaristic characters. I can see those games appealing to gun toting red necks, but most gays that I know are far more creative, intelligent and thoughtful.......