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Will Microsoft Sell Off Its Entertainment Division?
An anonymous reader writes "Forbes analyst Adam Hartung has predicted that Microsoft will sell off its entertainment division, which includes Xbox, in the coming years. He even goes so far as to list Sony or Barnes & Noble as potential buyers. Lets forget how crazy this sounds for a moment and focus on the reasons why Hartung believes such a sale will happen. It basically comes down to Windows 8, and how poorly it is selling. Combine that with falling sales of PCs, the Surface RT tablet not doing so great, the era of more than one PC in the home disappearing, and Microsoft has a big problem. The problem not only stems from the PC market not growing, but because Microsoft relies so heavily on Windows and Office for revenue. With that in mind, Hartung believes Steve Ballmer will do anything and everything to save Windows, including ditching entertainment and therefore Xbox."
I cannot believe this is getting posted here. I know Slashdot hates Microsoft but this is the equivalent of me saying that Apple will sell off the iPad because the iPhone didn't sell as well as they wanted it to. Or something like that.
Either that, or they will release Xbox 8 as an "upgrade".
Sigh.
This is the dumbest thing I've heard on this site yet.
Baby Master Chief is crying :-(
The answer is always C).
Last i read
The online part is the money loser along with mobile
And why would Sony buy it? They already have a console
"will"
Mighty progressive of Microsoft, giving their text-to-speech programs control over whole entertainment divisions!
I've not understood MS's strategy around gaming for years now. Don't get me wrong, I owned an original Xbox and liked it, I own a 360 now and like it a lot - but I've never understood why MS would choose to move into the console market.
I'd have thought that there's much more of an incentive for them to make Windows work as a gaming platform. After all, what's one of the biggest reasons that people shy away from switching OSes? The games. Running modern commercial games consistently and in a relatively hassle-free manner is - and has for quite a long time - been one of the things you can do on Windows that you just can't do on other OSes.
So they launch the original Xbox which is basically - at launch at least - the console that runs games you'd otherwise have expected to be focussed on the PC (Halo and Knights of the Old Republic were both from genres that the PC utterly dominated at the time). Then the 360 comes along and - for quite a long time - if the only reason you stick with Windows is gaming... then why not just buy a 360?
And then as we get to the late-cycle point where PC gaming really starts to outstrip what the consoles can do (even on a bargain-bucket PC), they go and foul it all up with Windows 8.
It's like MS is determined to take one of its biggest advantages in the OS market and hammer it into oblivion.
They make periodic efforts to "get serious" about the PC as a gaming platform, but these tend to be inconsistent, badly thought through and horribly unsuccessful. Games for Windows Live, anybody? With Valve looking at the PC gaming market in a distinctly predatory manner, MS should be seriously worried.
And while it's not such a major matter, they've also made some really odd choices with their internally developed games. First they shut down the Flight Simulator series - a brand with immense loyalty from its enthusiast following - abandoning the market to competitors. Then they try to come back with Flight - a free-to-play-pay-to-actually-do-anything monstrosity that discards the series's historic strengths.
Selling off their entertainment division? At the point where they're finally making a profit from console gaming? It would fit...
If that's the case then Uncle Fester is completely around the bend. They have one division that is a leading player in a rapidly developing market, and that is Xbox in a market where entertainment is starting to be delivered by IP network and the cable companies are starting to cave or become irrelevant. Just at this moment Fester decides to sell. Holy Jebus Gates, fire that idiot.
if 'microsoft Will' is anything like microsoft Bob, i assume the sell off will be done horribly.
won't won't
If Windows is in trouble because of market shrinkage (and that's most certainly the case at the consumer level, not really at the business level), then how does decreasing Microsoft's diversification (which is what I always assumed the XBox division was all about) help things? Sure, it might make some quick cash, but then Redmond is still stuck with the same problems.
I think Microsoft has got an uphill climb with Surface, but while it may not be winnable in traditional Redmond terms (90% for MS, 10% for everyone else), I don't see why in the medium term it couldn't at least grab some modest market share. Beyond that, we already know they're preparing a version of Office for the iPhone, so Microsoft always has a few cards like porting major software packages to competing environments, up its sleeve.
I don't buy this. Not yet. Maybe in five years when Microsoft is in some sort of severe structural decline, then maybe they start selling off divisions, but while the situation is hardly in their favor right now, it's hardly desperation mode at Redmond.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
If Microsoft wants to survive rather than riding Windows into the ground they should shift to emphasize the entertainment division rather than selling it. Of course I have no faith that Ballmer would do that. He's the wrong guy to be leading the company at a critical moment like this.
Who says Ballmer has months let alone the years before this prediction is due.
Captcha = bygone
ha!
I'm just a lowly user, but I predict that the next big move that MS makes is to get rid of Steve Ballmer. And the second big move that MS is going to make is release Windows 8 Pro Classic -- which will simply be Windows 8 without Metro bolted on! They have no choice if they want to keep their business customers happy!
Article not's there anymore. Not surre how long it's been gone, but it's cute to see how many comments there are in spite of this.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
I've been saying this to my Softie friends and they keep disagreeing on this point: Ballmer's incompetence will not be limited to Microsoft's stagnation. He will take it much deeper and cause irreparable harm to Microsoft and its stockholders.
They understand he's a terrible CEO but hey, the revenues are still coming in. But it's looks more-and-more like my contention is going to be right, before he's gone, he'll have cut off all of the company's limbs while still declaring victory.
We'll see what happens but the bottom line is that he has to go, much sooner rather than later.
They should be ditching Balmer, not the Entertainment Division. Behind almost every failure is a failing management team.
... I don't give a damn. Instead of selling Windows 7 and 8 at reasonable prices, you're turning Windows 8 into 200$, after some time in the 30-40$ (source. You'll die, slowly, because of being greedy and short-sighted. In my opinion.
The article has inexplicably vanished. Here's the text from the Google cache while it lasts:
Microsoft needed a great Christmas season. After years of product stagnation, and a big market shift toward mobile devices from PCs, Microsoft’s future relied on the company seeing customers demonstrate they were ready to jump in heavily for Windows8 products – including the new Surface tablet.
But that did not happen.
With the data now coming it, it is clear the market movement away from Microsoft products, toward Apple and Android products, has not changed. On Christmas eve, as people turned on their new devices and launched their first tweet, Surface came in dead last – a mere 2% compared to the number of people tweeting from iPads (Kindle was second, Android third.) Looking at more traditional units shipped information, UBS analysts reported Surface sales were 5% of iPads shipped. And usability reviews continue to run highly negative for Surface and Win8.
PC sales declining
This inability to make a big splash, and mount a serious attack on Apple/Android domination, is horrific for Microsoft primarily because we now know that traditional PC sales are well into decline. Despite the big Win8 launch and promotion, holiday PC sales declined over 3% compared to 2011 as journalists reported customers found “no compelling reason to upgrade.” Ouch!
Looking deeper, for the 4th quarter PC sales declined by almost 5% according to Gartner research, and by almost 6.5% according to IDC. Both groups no longer expect a rebound in PC shipments, as they believe homes will no longer have more than 1 PC due to the mobile device penetration – the market where Surface and Win8 phones have failed to make any significant impact or move beyond a tiny market share. Users increasingly see the complexity of shifting to Win8 as not worth the effort; and if a switch is to be made consumer and businesses now favor iOS and Android.
Microsoft’s monopoly over personal computing has evaporated
From 95% market domination in 2005 share has fallen to just 20% in 2012 (IDC, Goldman Sachs.) Comparing devices, in 2005 there were 55 Windows de
To make more money, we're going to sell of the division that currently brings in the most profit? Microsoft is far from being in the kind of bind where they need to start selling of parts of the company. Microsoft's "weak" Windows 8 sales were predicted. Maybe not quite as weak as they have been, but Microsoft didn't "bet big" on Windows 8. They knew the wildly revamped interface would be a huge gamble, and they expected negative reaction. But they are safe, because the large sales of Windows 7 in the enterprise world cushioned the harder than anticipated blow of Windows 8. But with so many businesses so heavily invested in Windows 7, Windows 8 was the PERFECT time to release an OS that had more "market research" potential than "sales" potential.
Microsoft is more likely to sell off the Windows Os side and keep the entertainment division. XBOX exists because they knew that the future of Windows depends on it being in your living room. They are supposed to be using the xbox to sell Windows in the same way Apple uses the iPad and iPhone OS to sell Macs.
With that said, Microsoft is doing a terrible job at this, but the strategy depends on tying entertainment to OS so selling it off would be illogical.
Microsoft would sell off their most profitable division why?
Forbes has vanished the article. Here's a copy on the author's blog.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Will Microsoft Will Sell Off Its Operating System Division?
FTFY!
Seriously this article speaks of Windows performing poorly so hey! why not ditch that instead? Xbox is performing much better than expected regardless of what some will say.
Will Slashdot Will Fix Its Grammar
Why would MS sell a profitable division of their company in reaction to other parts being less profitable?
That's like saying Amazon is going to sell their Music division because the Kindle sales have slowed down.
Anecdote: my work currently has XP, Office 2007 and Lotus Notes. We're looking at replacing Office and Notes with Google Apps ... and XP with Linux or Chromebook-style thin clients unless you can come up with a good reason you need a general-purpose PC. Google Apps is pretty much the hot favourite with lots of people saying "hell yes!"; the second part is just being mooted, but it's being seriously mooted. It'll be interesting. (I can already do all my work in Xubuntu.)
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Considering the pounding of the wardrums we've been hearing for the past five or so years that console gaming is reaching it's zenith this doesn't seem so implausible. We have handheld devices that are providing powerful entertainment at a fraction of the cost, and the graphical prowess of these devices are rapidly catching up to machines that are several times their size and aren't a tenth as convenient. There's also the resurgence of PC gaming as smart developers side step the primary development machine the publishers have built into a monolith over the last three decades. Kickstarter, easily acquired tools and resources are helping to make that transition easier by the day.
This article and Hartung's prediction maybe be bullshit, but those wardrums are getting louder and you can be sure Microsoft is listening and weighing it's options.
Will Slashdot Will Fix Its Grammar? -- Fixed
Betteridge's law of headlines
The best part is that Forbes (apparently) pulled the article because (apparently) it was just too much wild speculation.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Pardon the pun, but it looks like MS is going to carry WinOS & MSO to the grave.
Why on earth would they sell that off? Makes absolutely no sense. This type of reporting is totally and utterly a pile of crap. Must be a slow news day and this guy has an article quota to keep.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
Makes no sense
did you forget to take your meds?
The Xbox is basically a specialized, stripped-down Windows gaming computer, in terms of both software and hardware. The games use DirectX, just like regular Windows, and make it trivial for developers to port their games to desktop. In other words, the Xbox ecosystem makes the Windows platform stronger, not weaker.
Although people are venting, it should be of note that both MS and Google are in a war. And that war is bleeding casualties
Microsoft is killing MSN Live and Messenger. Google has killed off services and solutions. Windows 8 is part of a huge MS screw up where they are trying to align devices. This isn't a fit for their windows, so windows has had to go through the disaster that is called 8.
Phones, Xbox, PC and Tablet all with the same dire 'Modern *Cough Metro *cough* UI - and they killed zune which could have used the same. Their store is a disaster, as are the applications - and the development platform where you write once and deploy across devices is pure fantasy land.
Xbox depending one how much fiddling you do on the accounting side has lost MS billions. Its now at the end of the current machine design lifespan. And the high street market in the UK where they used to sell into is a disaster area. They are currently basically giving away 8 for peanuts, and only doing so has generated sales. They give away office in surface, because its so utterly broken and can't operate with add ins and stuff people need that they would not get away with charging for it.
At some point, and I think it will be soon unless there is something not visible, something will crack. Either the numbers or the money will turn into the red, and this stuff will go through the ringer. MS in recent times made ok money, but 7 started losing sales, and 8 has tipped into a slide. On the other side, while they are still shifting office, the theory of driving office on top of modern UI may well end up like a Win 8 disaster in the office area.
At which point certain plans or divisons will end up under scrutiny. I'm not expecting divions that lose billions to survive with that background.
MS is a very scewed up company right now. Its old divisions are being decimated and wrecked, and new ones are a mess. Includin the 'everything cloud' and azure.
To put this in a context. Here is a prime example. You can't add surface to AD.
How that actually passed board level or adult level checks its hard to know. A windows machine that is aimed at business users, has office installed (albeit laughably broken) and cannot be added to AD.
The bottom line is actually some of this shit has die, be sold off. Because frankly they are wrecking everything, stupidy, in badly thought out efforts to unify unconnected systems and devices, into an eco system no customer asked for, or wanted. Or will want.
We`re all equal
No.
I cannot believe this is getting posted here. I know Slashdot hates Microsoft but this is the equivalent of me saying that Apple will sell off the iPad because the iPhone didn't sell as well as they wanted it to. Or something like that.
No, I see distinct differences between your comparison. I wasn't able to read the article before it was pulled but let me address your bad analogy. While you're right that this "analyst" needs to pull his head out of his anal cyst, your comparison is quite laughable and let me tell you why. Traditionally Microsoft's software has been a cash cow. You want the latest Office? You want the latest Windows? Pay up. Everyone. For each computer. Now. And while that's faltered before, Windows 8 has been subjected to a lot of bad PR (both warranted and unwarranted) as well as actually having poor sales.
Now, let's look at their entertainment division. With the initial Xbox release, that division was a sinkhole of money. Like, literally a burn pile for billions of dollars. But Microsoft was patient because they had other stupid insane routes of income with which to fill the tire fire that was the Xbox. Even when they launched the second incarnation -- they fared much better but still they took a loss on the console assuming publishing royalties would pay and later on they did. Now, you know, after the bomb of the Zune has run its course and now that Wii U is out Microsoft could be looking at their entertainment division as a potential sale. Why? Because in the past it has been a very risky venture for them and recently profits and revenues of that division have been dropping faster each quarter. Basically I see their sales stagnating until they release another console to drum up more money -- and even then they'll probably take the strategy of letting later publishing sales subsidize the initial unit to compete with Nintendo and Sony.
So, now that their cash cows are looking pretty thin will they be in a position to take another gamble in the console market? Will it be painful like Xbox one or will it be great like Xbox 360? And I'm not in this area of management but I imagine they are looking at their revenues and if committing to the next console is a make or break move for Microsoft as a whole (which would be totally f*cking insane if they are looking that bad) then maybe they'd try to sell it to someone else with huge cash reserves. I don't know why Sony would buy and I don't see B&N having a ton of cash after their brick and mortar stores are a fond pastime.
So, to wrap it up, no this is nothing like Apple selling off the iPad because the iPhone didn't sell as well as they wanted it to. I don't think the iPad ever lost them money and the market still looks good for tablets.
My work here is dung.
The operating system - and, for that matter, Office - is becoming less and less important as more companies transition to web-based services for the bulk of their work and find that they don't need anything like as sophisticated as Office for the odd spreadsheet or bit of word-processing.
Sure, it's not happening anything like as quickly as a lot of us predicted five or ten years ago. But it's happening.
In such a climate - particularly when you're still a profitable company with a lot of cash in the bank - I would think it makes more sense to diversify than it does to concentrate on the two things that have historically made you lots of money but might not continue to do so for very long.
Sounds like the Microsoft equivalent of the Borg Collective.
The obvious company to buy the XBox line would be Hon Hai Precision Industries, the parent of Foxconn. They already make the XBox. Hon Hai's CEO wants to develop a global brand of their own. It would just mean Hon Hai taking over a slightly larger portion of the supply and marketing chain for something they already make.
The rumor has been around for a while now, that Microsoft will put the Xbox group up as a stand alone IPO the same way they did with the Travel site Expedia. This isn't selling the group, it would make it accountable to itself and open the door to alternative (non Microsoft) technologies.
1- build a very mature OS/Office/Entreprise business with slow growth
2- build a faster growth Entertainment business with, at last, OK results
3- sell 2-
4- watch 1- stagnate
5- ???
6- Profits !
MS have a monopoly rent on entreprise OS and software. The only thing they can do is use that rent while it lasts to try and become relevant in the mobile space. Even being an also-ran would be better than the non-entity they are right now. I think their best chance is to pull an Apple, integrate hardware and software, either by buying Nokia outright or keeping them straightjacketed by whatever exclusive deal and right of first refusal they have on takeovers.
The article is wrong in that MS can do *nothing* about Wintel PCs falling out of favor, so *nothing* about Windows on desktops/laptops sales. It's pointless to invest more in Windows. Actually, I'm pretty sure MS could stop doing anything but security updates for desktop/laptop Windows over the next few years, and that would not impact sales. It might even turn out better then pulling another Win8 on users.
MS can try and get more Windows phones and tablets out. They missed their opportunity to preempt competitors like they did in the PC market though, and will never get it back. Android and iOS are good enough and big enough that whatever MS comes up will at best get to par, and OEMs are not dumb enough to let MS once again get all the profits and devalue the hardware business.
I think it's already too late to achieve much success in the general market though, and that the best MS can hope is to milk the market of companies who insist on Windows Everywhere, and can't/won't handle iOS nor Android. Apart from Office, there's *zero* reasons to buy a Windows phone nor tablet these days. RT tablets are inferior to iOS/Android on all scores; and x86 tablets are so expensive you can get an x86 laptop *and* an ARM tablet for the same price.
The Entertainment division is actually one of the few recent MS success stories, had has a lot of similarities to the Mobile market: consumer not entreprise, ecosystem, media-oriented... Getting rid of it makes no sense.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
I think Microsoft should sell off 100% of Microsoft, preferably to some Linux house which will have the common sense to bury Windows* OSs deep in the ground, never to be heard from again.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Don't reward Trolls like this guy.
He is clearly posting outrageous nonsense for page hits, and the /. just gave it to him (I did not follow the link, but many will).
Is he like Microsoft Bob 2.0?
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Who on earth is Microsoft Will ?
That doesn't sound like good business sense. While the entertainment unit would be a successful spinoff, no doubt, what would be in it for Microsoft as a whole to spin off a highly successful division? They're not hurting for cash, so they're not going to spin it off to make cash, the enterprise Windows unit is still making good money, so they're not trying to separate an incredibly lossy half of the company from an incredibly successful one... So what then?
Microsoft has lost the popular consumer, most likely for good.
It has not lost the business user, and probably never will.
You might find that Microsoft completely spins off Windows OS,
and focuses on products for all OSes, and getting them to
interoperate well. It is business products that make Microsoft IMHO.
None of the first twenty odd posters noticed!
you have to sell off the good performers, because the rest of the operation is discounted to pennies on the dollar if you pull in a shylock banker on the sly to value it. so the slide gets steeper.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
"With that in mind, Hartung believes Steve Ballmer will do anything and everything to save Windows, including ditching entertainment and therefore Xbox."
Twisted logic.
If Windows/Office are on decline, why sell the only growing, and potentially profitable, business branch they have?
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
Any ideas?
uh, wait... http://games.slashdot.org/story/13/01/21/130215/atari-files-for-bankruptcy
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
You would think the link text "how poorly it is selling" would link to an article about Windows 8 Adoption Rates.
It doesn't, don't click it.
Microsoft will continue to produce products in the horror genre. So we can look forward to Windows sequels for the foreseeable future.
Have gnu, will travel.
"Forbes analyst Adam Hartung makes wild prediction to drive up add revenue"
The idea of Microsoft selling off their gaming division in an effort to salvage their core products makes sense. Their gaming division does not have any real synergies with the core products, and with consoles entering into the transition phase to the next generation, the next few years are going to require a lot of money, talent and oversight. If they can command a good multiple on the earnings, it would be better to sell now while they can command a premium before having to make that investment. They can then take those resources and investment them into salvaging their core Windows and Office products. This assumes of course that salvaging Windows and Office is possible...
This doesn't even pass the sniff test. Microsoft has spent literally billions of dollars (estimates from $5-$10) more than they have made on their entertainment division - by design. They did that as a long term strategic investment for the sole purpose of staying entrenched in peoples living rooms and lives. A computer for every desk and an xbox for every living room. They aren't about to walk away from that now that they are starting to get to the point they envisioned a decade ago.
This is a long term strategic vision, and frankly one that is better laid thought out and executed than what they have done with their operating systems during the same time frame. Ballmer is a bloody idiot in many ways, but he isn't /that/ much of an idiot. Frankly someone should put their games division in charge of the OS division, as they have better vision and long term execution.
http://www.thephoenixprinciple.com/blog/2013/01/sell-microsoft-now-game-over-ballmer-loses.html
Forbes has pulled it.
Microsoft makes more than 75% of its profits from Windows and Office. Less than 25% comes from its vaunted servers and tools. And Microsoft makes nothing from its xBox/Kinect entertainment division, while losing vast sums in its on-line division (negative $350M-$750M/quarter). No matter how much anyone likes the non-Windows Microsoft products, without the historical Windows/Office sales and profits Microsoft is not sustainable.
To be quite honest he makes a good case.
Good leaders run toward problems, bad leaders hide from them.
Nice one samzenpus.
Ballamer has been driving the Windows brand into the ground for years now. Last week I took a (well sourced) look at the horrible sales numbers for Windows 8. In my opinion, Win8 is DOA.
Microsoft doesn't understand the Windows brand anymore. And that's exactly why they won't sell off their entertainment division. For another thing, it's literally been driving the design and UI choices for Windows 8. Both Xbox Live and the Windows Phone happened before Win8 and Win8 uses elements of both in their UI.
So this idea that Microsoft is selling their entertainment division makes no sense. At all.
If they were to create a marketing strategy that made sense (and they most certainly won't do this either) they'd dump the "Surface" brand and they'd dump calling their OS "Windows".
The brand with meaning to most is "Windows XP". So name the hardware the Microsoft Window and make it run an OS called "XP".
This would rescue the tarnished "Windows" brand by freeing it from the legacy of Me, 2000, Vista, 7, and 8 and let it encourage hardware sales. By leveraging the XP name, you'd be uniting your "Windows XP" in a way that makes sense to people. Plus, it makes more linguistic sense for "XP" to compete with "iOS". Letting "Windows 8" do it sounds like a bad legacy idea.
As a marketer, that's what I'd do.
Their current strategy has the Worldwide VP of Marketing for Acer "confused" and Samsung has seen fit to kill all RT hardware development. It's because Microsoft is losing the desktop battle. Entertainment is a profit center. That's not going away.
Divesting yourself of one market's products when another one of your markets is shrinking is just fucking retarded. It's exactly the wrong thing to do. Any arm-chair CEO would know this.
"Yeah. So since the market for foo is shrinking, let's get rid of our products for the growing bar market and concentrate harder on that shrinking market." I don't think even Balmer is that retarded.
My brother uses an Xbox 360, he was a bit shocked. He said he doesn't understand why it's not making any money since they nickel and dime you to death. He said it's getting to where you can't even turn it on without paying ten times. That's what he said.
As others have noted their "gaming strategy" has been schizophrenic and scattered because of contrary goals working against each other instead of concert (promoting consoles erodes PC, promoting mobile erodes consoles, etc). So to answer your question: It does make sense if they decide they want to bank everything on Win Phone 8 and Surface where a future XBox is a distraction or partially erode that goal.
Although Microsoft can claim "we win!" the console generation, it cost heavily and might have been a Pyrrhic victory. If the high execs believe the future is all mobile phones and tablets then Microsoft has a much bigger in to "the living room" than it ever did with consoles. Consoles in this view become an expensive anchor that are fraught with more risk than selling another phone.
Of course this thinking only makes sense if you are an exec who really really really really really believes that Win Phone 8 and Surface are really really really really all of that. If the higher ups at Microsoft believe that then it would be a small step to see how selling off that expensive business "makes sense" for as a boost to the company instead of a disaster.
"Will Microsoft Will Sell Off..." - C'mon, what kind of grammar is it?
It's making money and have you ever known Microsoft to sell off anything of theirs? (Excluding MSNBC, it wasn't wholey owned)
And how about analysts predicting that it should sell off Bing?
For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.
It's the handle of a bailing pump on a sinking wooden ship.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
here is the article
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=KSeDvQk6
Well, as I understand it, the 360 did well in the 'longer haul' of this generation. While the clear winner was the Wii, it has effectively been dead for a couple of years, with the 360 making leads over the PS3 in Europe and I believe, the US?
So... if Microsoft see the 720 as being 'potentially a success' on its own two legs, what would MS do? Given recent history, they'd find a way of jamming Metro into it, somehow. I can see the 720 as being some Windows RT inspired device, aimed at being to your living room what your WP8 is when you're mobile, your Windows Surface device when you're semi-mobile, and your Windows 8 desktop when you're at a desk.
The fact that WP8, Surface and Windows 8 are clearly failing (miserably, in the case of WP8 and Surface) is unlikely to deter MS - Ballmer has been one of the most stubborn CEO's in recent history. His strategy to keep doing the wrong thing, no matter what sales, user feedback, OEM feedback might say is quite remarkable. Zune will succeed! Oh. Well, WP7 will succeed! Oh... er... XNA is doing well in the indie market, let's scrap it! .Net's entrenched in business and enterprise, let's suggest it's second class now! Let's buy Skype and just screw it in to everything we do! Let's do the Surface hardware on our own, our OEM partners will be fully supportive!
I seriously believe a Magic 8 Ball running Microsoft would do a better job, as decisions made entirely by random would have a better chance of sometimes being successful.
If Ballmer continues on this route, either MS will win massively in the long run (by being such an incredible visionary that he blind-sided the entire technology market, and all his ideas thus far have been part of some master plan), or (seemingly more likely) he will run them into the ground, until there's nothing left but a software company looking for a buy out.
And I'm fairly pro-Microsoft. For /., I'd actually be a fan boi.
You can't play real first person shooters on consoles
Halo and COD are far more "real" to more people that play on consoles than any computer based FPS has even been (yes I know COD also works on the PC).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Will Sony buy him?
Who is this Microsoft Will guy, and what has he done with Bob?
Personally I love playing FPS games on a console. While I may not be as accurate as on a PC I find it much more relaxing to play.
I've played my share of FPS games on PC's. From Doom, Quake, America's Army and countless others.
It just comes down to personal preference. The only games I have found that really work better on a PC are RTS games. However, after playing C&C on the xbox, once you got the shortcuts memorized it wasn't too bad at all.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
Microsoft should just sell everything and start into some other software or products. Only good thing they have going for them is their email system, exchange and maybe Xpox.
if the only reason you stick with Windows is gaming... then why not just buy a 360?
Xbox Live Indie Games, based on the XNA platform, gives amateurs a route to market for their games. One advantage is that it lets someone new to video game development build up a portfolio of amateur games that demonstrate his skill in order to get hired into the industry. The problem is that XBLIG isn't available in all countries due to censorship laws, and to be able to experience games from promising amateurs from those countries or in those countries, you need a PC.
Microsoft will sooner ditch Windows than the Xbox. With Windows, they only make money initially and if you purchase Office. With the xbox, they make money out of every consoles and every single games. It's basically a cash cow for them.
The fact that it does is great. The whole point is to have a foot in the door, and then find ways to improve the 360 experience by having other Microsoft products. Selling it off is moronic.
The problem is Windows 8 is crap. Admit the mistake, go back to 7, and let everyone who owns 8 go back to 7 for free if they want. Stop forcing "improvements" on people and give them a choice.
Not to mention that many PC games are now coming with support out of the box for an Xbox controller
Are they coming out with support for just one Xbox 360 controller, or two to four Xbox 360 controllers? Sometimes I have friends over who want to join a game but didn't bring their own gaming laptops.
A $500 gaming rig for the computer desk and a $500 gaming rig for the living room are still a lot more expensive than a $500 gaming rig for the computer desk and a $200 console for the living room.
So, as the PC market is shrinking, they sell their only successful non PC device to others?
I think it was Judge Green, the same one that oversaw the breakup of ATT that was the Clinton era anti-trust case judge.
He was going to break up Microsoft into a OS, Applications and Entertainment company, on the theory that together they colluded to seize the market, but that each part could do well by themselves. Now it would seem Steve Balmer has discovered, a decade + what a good idea that was. Now one part of the ship is dragging down the rest. He can't jettison the OS division as that is the flagship, though a slow flagship, so will try to create a lifeboat called Xbox Inc, and likely take the CEO/Chairmanship of that company and hand off the OS and application business to some daring young exec.
I think they'll start with a tracking stock, then at six months let the two go their own ways.
As to Bing? Jettison it to Yahoo! ?
Another good scenario is to split the company into five separate companies, tracking stocks at first. OS, Applications, Business Systems (a services company), Entertainment and Search/Ad. Value each, split the cash accordingly and operate for six months, then let the pieces go their separate way.
Such a division is never 'fair' but it can breath new life into the separate parts. ATT and it's daughter companies survived or were bought up well. NCR for example is doing pretty well with a new vision.
Would you say the split of Viacom into two companies is another good example? Both CBS and Viacom are still controlled by National Amusements, but all the slower-growing lines of business have been consolidated into one entity (CBS).
If I was a shareholder I'd be rather pissed off if they tried selling off the one division that seems to be making any progress. If they want to break up, then at least do the world a favor and just spin them off as a separate company entirely. Perhaps than, entertainment can move away from having to rely on other pieces of the MS ecosystem. Might even increase sales of XBox more if they weren't tied to MS so tightly any longer.
But selling them to Sony? Way to kill two platforms with one stone, might as well just burn the shareholders cash.
Maybe Microsoft should sell its entertainment division to Mattel. You know, the company that published B17 Ballmer for its Intellivision console way back in the second generation. It'd be a good fit with the "Fisher-Price" look of Windows XP and Windows 8.
Windows 8 is selling VERY well.
New PCs with Windows 8 are what isn't selling well... because, you know... it works great on existing PCs.
That's a Lenovo, HP and Dell problem, not a Microsoft problem.
We're looking at replacing Office and Notes with Google Apps ... and XP with Linux or Chromebook-style thin clients unless you can come up with a good reason you need a general-purpose PC.
In software development, there are still cases where an essential tool isn't ported to Linux and doesn't work well on Wine.
I can already do all my work in Xubuntu.
I can do almost all my work in Xubuntu 12.04 LTS except for a few things:
Gotchas like these are why a lot of enterprises stay on Windows: it's a known quantity that everything is expected to support.
Microsoft is the only one with a game console.
How is an iPad mini AirPlayed onto an Apple TV not just as much a game console as a Wii U?
After all, the games division is successful, innovative, profitable and they are forced to actually *listen* to their customers, not a cabal of pampered C++ programmers or former C++ programmers who are now middle management trying to protect their turf. Heck, they don't even change from one incompatible "no upgrade" platform every five years or so in order to screw their developers and customers, and their developer's customers in one deft move. Keep them? That's just crazy talk! Now let's all go and try and use our new Windows 8 machines, eh?
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Microsoft is now being run exclusively by suits. There is no vision, no direction, just a blind rage for profit on top of a huge envy on Apple and Google for growing so big around Microsoft.
The current exec lineup is willing to beat the old horse until it dies. I'm looking at Windows 8 and despise it. Everything that made Windows great for developers such as myself over the last 15 years is going down the toilet. Almost every month over the last year I've had important MSDN blogs closed because their authors have left Microsoft. There is ZERO significant investment in improving the desktop experience, which is the heart and soul of Windows and the whole Windows division is now being run by a bimbo. Windows Phone is a joke and Windows Store is a pathetic attempt to get a stronghold on selling software for a platform that no developer wants to get 100% on board with. They will soon raise the prices 5 times for upgrades and they killed the classic retail license and shrouded its successor in obscurity to ensure you keep paying for a new Windows version every time you make a major change to your hardware. Not only that, to compensate for the shit Microsoft is heading into they raised prices for some of their critical Enterprise software (SQL Server is 1st on my list) making them much less attractive to anyone but medium to large corporations.
Microsoft is sinking fast and the current lineup of executives will desperately cling to anything that brings in profit. Xbox is on that list so the only way Xbox will be sold is after Steve Ballmer is thrown out the window. Developers, developers, developers, developers! EAT SHIT AND DIE STEVE BALLMER!
They would spin off the Entertainment Division into a separate company to existing shareholders, but the risk would be that the exodus of MSFT stockholders after that. XBox is a huge brand that has lots of value that is looking up, not down. It may be a job saving tactic for Ballmer, but I doubt it would work.
Really?
DITCH METRO!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
... of Microsoft going bankrupt soon. ( I believe it was on New Year's Eve ).
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
i can play more then just microsfot games and not one i have tried yet wont work
i get a pc i can create my own games on
i get a desktop that can do acounting play music , set up and run services and watch all manner of videos even ones ms wont let me or sony for that matter
and best part is
the graphic card was only 150$
i can just upgrade every 2-3 years and atm im totally near the top only 4 cards are better in the nvdia area all those qaudro ones.
IN other words ive got a pc that i wont need to upgrade for a few years
it has 16 GB of ram and i see no need other then bigger mesh models to swap out the mother board and goto one that has 8 slots for a 64GB or 128 GB system
Will Microsoft Will Sell Off Its Entertainment Division?
C'mooooooon, ffs.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
What TFA proposes doesn't even make sense. Microsoft has diversified into entertainment BECAUSE Windows and Office peaked long ago, and the server market isn't going to offer much of a growth curve for Microsoft thanks to Linux having matured. Even back in the '90s when Linux still struggled with hardware support, it was already showing signs of dominating the server market and even showed promise as a supercomputing platform. Honestly, I'm surprised it has been so successful given the monolithic nature of the kernel compared to some of the BSDs, but even for all of its shortcomings (which are largely idealistic vs. practical) it has proven to be so flexible, so reliable, extensible, and even secure compared to Windows that the negative aspects are practically immaterial
Given Linux's continued dominance and growth in the server sector, and now on smartphones and tablets, Microsoft needs to find ways to continue to deliver returns to investors. Xbox becoming more of an HTPC + video game console + streaming + video conferencing convergence device can continue to keep Microsoft a household name, and keep people coming back to Microsoft.
I honestly don't see Windows phones going anywhere - Microsoft had a GOLDEN opportunity when PocketPC morphed into Windows Mobile and phones were offered on that platform: the browsers worked well (for mobile browsers of the time), the devices were much faster than the competition that existed, they offered FAR more functionality than Blackberry, were expandable (CF, SD and even PC card slots) and were enterprise-friendly to boot. Microsoft REALLY dropped the ball on that and did nothing with the platform, and did little to foster third-party developer support. Initially it was really good - for PocketPC at one point Compaq was making their devices flash upgradable (and also offered a Linux distro for iPaq devices BTW), and Microsoft took note and required that new PocketPCs be flash upgradable. It was good, for one release, then Microsoft let the platform languish for about 5 to 7 years, by which point iPod became more than an MP3/AAC player, to a basic PDA, to a smartphone built on a full-blown BSD platform.
Apple took the smartphone market that Microsoft really created (with the PocketPC phones) and should have dominated, but relinquished to Apple. Now with Windows Phone, and forcing the phone interface on the desktop, Microsoft is nothing more than a "me-too" player, having abandoned all of the features which made Windows Mobile so enterprise-friendly in the beginning, and at the same time by forcing that same UI on the desktop, made the Windows PC totally impractical for actual work.
Microsoft needs to reexamine where they want to be in the marketplace, but abandoning Xbox is the wrong way to go about it. KEEPING Xbox as a center for home entertainment, but focusing Windows and Windows Phone to be enterprise-friendly is the way to ensure that they do not lose out to Linux and Apple, because but Linux and OS X are very usable, very capable, and now more user friendly than Windows 8.
Xbox isn't their problem - Windows 8 and Windows Phone are the source of Microsoft's current ills.
Xbox is an asset which if marketed correctly as more of a full-fledged entertainment device (Hulu + Netflix + Amazon Prime + Vudu client, telephony/video chat, etc) rather than just a game console, can end up being THE dominant set top box, possibly displacing even cable TV if they team up with video providers to offer a basic streaming service in addition to the services I already mentioned. Microsoft could easily make Comcast, Cox, Time Warner, etc. irrelevant as programming providers.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Bohemoth companies that don't evolve eventually die. If Microsoft doesn't keep evolving its product line and it ditches its current well performing products in favour of its old products it will eventually go the way of the likes of Kodak, Lucent, Nokia, XEROX, DEC, etc...
You can still find page 1 of the article in Google cache. Thanks to ~darkeye, who submitted that.
This is the same author who wrote "Sell Research in Motion. Now." That in April, 2011 as it began its precipitous dive from $53 to $6.50. His views are controversial, but he has a better track record than many official analysts.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
There's an old saying, "those that can, do. Those that can't, teach." Many would consider this adage unfair, but when applied instead to so-called 'analysts', near 100% of people would agree with the sentiment.
The Xbox division has been a run-away success for Microsoft, and represents the only new significant successful product launch since Windows and Office. Only a complete cretin would fail to notice the significance of an American company producing a continuously successful family of gaming consoles, a business model previously thought to be in the domain of the Japanese alone.
While Americans were early pioneers in the console market, each US attempt saw a horrible boom and bust, with no long term success. Before the Xbox was released, the self-same 'analysts' told the world that MS would suffer the same fate as Atari, if it even saw any early success at all. The analysts were universally wrong (no change there).
Microsoft faces many problems in 2013, but the console business is not one of them. Indeed, the Xbox720 (out late Autumn/early Winter) represents a massively successful partnership with AMD, delivering the most anticipated gaming hardware ever from the perspective of the major games publishers. Consoles from Sony and MS are about to become fully PC compatible (from a developers POV), allowing the same code base to serve the two major consoles AND the PC marketplace with very little modification.
For MS, its new console becomes THE powerhouse PC in the household. 8GB RAM, 64-bit OS, 8-core CPU (yep, you read that right), powerful GPU that can handle all future video streams (4K and up). The console is literally a 'shop window' for all of MS's services. The hopes that MS have pinned to this product are extraordinary.
So, of course, as the Xbox720 reaches the culmination of Microsoft's hopes and dreams, they'd want to sell it off. Yeah, right!
Everyone knows WHY they'd pay MS for gaming hardware, software and services in the future. No-one knows why on Earth they'd be paying MS for an OS or an office-suite a few years from now. There is NOTHING intrinsic in an OS or office-suite that should prevent either product from being effectively free. The idea that MS would sit nursing declining revenues from these two dinosaur software products, until they lost all value and/or market share, is ludicrous for a company that still has other options. Microsoft is fully aware that the future lies in 'services', like earning a percentage of all software sales via its online 'stores'.
Intel is a better candidate for simplistic analysis, given the company makes NOTHING that anyone will want to pay for in the near future. Intel is a one-trick pony, and that trick is mega-expensive x68 CPUs. Valve, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo have all gone AMD in the dying days of the x86 architecture, Microsoft twice, once for their new consoles, and once for their first decent low-power tablet, the Surface Pro II due later this year. Intel's boast- the world's best x86 CPU- now costs them business in price sensitive, power sensitive, and GPU sensitive markets.
Will likely be run over by shareholders befoer that...
The idiotard should have been fired 5 years ago. That would be the dumbest thing Microsoft could do.
MS was always angling to have a "set-top box" of some sort, which would be connected to their servers and through which people would get all of their entertainment services. They wanted to "own the living room". Back then, they sort of expected the Internet to turn into a new kind of two-way cable television thing. They wanted to be the gatekeepers, so they made game consoles hoping everyone would get used to having a Microsoft box in their livingroom connected to their TV to which they could add more and more entertainment services until eventually they would have a whole set of interconnected services, all with monthly fees of which Microsoft would be getting a cut, all provided through this MS-controlled platform. Sony wanted a similar thing.
You can see how this played out, too: with this generation of consoles, the Xbox 360 and PS3 were much more powerful than what came before, so they both grew an online service (with MS charging a cheap monthly fee to actually play games online, but letting you do everything else for free). It turned out it wasn't them who offered the new "cable television thing" over their platforms, it was actually Netflix who succeeded with that, but Netflix partnered with both MS and Sony. More and more shit that gamers don't care about, was bolted onto the side of their game console to try and help MS or Sony get a stronger foothold into our living rooms.
In the end, this strategy has failed: Phones and tables from Apple and various Android vendors have brought internet surfing into everyone's living room in a convenient way. Netflix and a few competitors offer the services that MS and Sony once imagined themselves as the gatekeepers of. Valve has made Steam into the most popular digital distribution platform on PC and its now much bigger and better than either XBox Live or PSN, and Valve plans sometime soon to offer their own console hardware.
If anything, the two biggest benefits of Microsoft and Sony's gaming divisions for those two companies are (1) the goodwill it buys them with young, wealthy consumers (who might be more inclined to buy their other products in the future), and (2) MS and Sony are both almost able to make money now on their gaming divisions, which is certainly better than the huge sunk costs they incurred while establishing their platforms, and in both cases their gaming divisions are some of the less dysfunctional parts of the parent company. So both of them should keep those parts, but they need to re-focus on games and make what gamers want instead of what some marketing exec thinks they can force them to accept.
"I can imagine it, therefore I must write an article about it."
I'll remind you that this is teh interwebs, and using actual references instead of TYPING IN ALL CAPS or hand-waving(!!!!!!) to back up one's point is not only unconventional but rude.
Please refrain from your outbursts in the future. KThxBuy.
Yeah, right.
I guess people have missed the Xbox and Win 8 integration. Xbox is a cash cow and Windows and office are far from in trouble yet. They are smarter than to dump Xbox, their route to the living room.
The fact that WP8, Surface and Windows 8 are clearly failing (miserably, in the case of WP8 and Surface)
You are talking about three products released only three months ago. And they can be considered version 1. WP8 is the first windows phone with the NT kernel, surface is the first device with the NT kernel running in ARM and Win8 has a new UI that is also V1.
The three products run the very first version of Windows designed to work across Server/Desktop/Laptop/Table/Mobile and on x86/x64 and ARM and that's a big challenge, and for a V1 release they are not so bad.
Having problems with Drivers, antimalware & PC configuration? Are you sure you're even on the right website?
I just bought a Zune, does that mean Microsoft won't support my purchase anymore?
Messenger has been asset stripped. When Vista arrived, they stripped out chunks of it - like sharing applications. This got menlted into Lync. And Messeneger had to be worse than Lync. But this is the MS of recent years, where you pay the same, or more, and get less.
SKYPE is great. But its not MSN messenger, and its not filling in the loss of what Messenger provided.
I'm aware its a new OS - or set of API's - hence my point about the touted write once run anywhere nonsense - which vapourises the moment you look at the details.
But this is MS - where they stupidly step on stage and announce ARM windows - and boast how all drivers will work, and how office will run on it.
And its of note you skirt the AD/ surface issue. Really? Business equipmebt shipping in the windows family that can't attach to AD and group policy.
If I want multiplayer I'll play online.
So what do you do for "us time" with your SO?
Modded into black glass?
Why?
Is anything he said false?
Sometimes the herd is just too stupid to deserve any kind of respect.
Just because something people have become used to evolves to better fit the times and makes them feel old and left behind, they feel threatened with personal obsolescence. That's the only explanation for the level of angst and emotional outburst seen on this whole subject. It's fucking childish.
I mean, come on, have you TRIED Windows 7 on a tablet? It's idiotic. All the buttons and links and menus are too small for human fingers. As the world goes touch-screen, the world needs operating systems designed for finger driven input. Microsoft has made exactly that. If they hadn't, everybody would bitch and complain about that as well.
If you want to use a mouse on your desktop, stay with Windows 7 and quit complaining. FFS.
Slashdotters are going to make the grumpiest old men!
Maybe the entertainment division should sell off Microsoft. Microsoft is becoming increasingly sterile in the computer world.
If they weren't a monopoly they would even exist.
According to Wikipedia, 300 LBS is on the smaller end of the gorilla spectrum. Unless you're referring to Steve Ballmer - 300 LBS seems like a reasonable guess.
Hell, all Sony has to do is NOT buy it. Once MS's entertainment division shutters, all of the game makers will have to jump over to the Playstation Line, (some will go to the WiiU, but in all honesty, it's equivalent to a PS2, at a time when there are already rumours of a PS4).
The games are a cash-cow; most of the hardware companies lose money on the consoles and make it back on the games. More money for less work, AND, without the entertainment division, MS is probably going to crash and burn, or at the very least minimize.
You know it's not THAT unbelievable, as of 2007
"Following the decision to set aside USD 1 billion for Xbox 360 repairs, the year-end loss for Microsoft's entertainment and devices division has reached 1.89 billion - up 47 per cent from last year.
Revenues for the year were up by 28 per cent to reach USD 6.08 billion, which the company said was due to increased sales of hardware, software, TVs and mobile devices.
During the last quarter of the year Microsoft shipped 700,000 Xbox 360 units - down from 1.8 million during the same period last year. Console sales were lower for the quarter but sales of 360 accessories and the Zune media player helped to offset this.
Revenues for Xbox and PC games fell by 28 per cent to hit USD 265 million.
Fourth quarter EDD revenues stood at USD 1.16 billion, a year-on-year fall of 10 per cent which Microsoft said was due to "decreased Xbox 360 console sales". "
We already know MS put aside lots of money for warranties, we also know that at the beginning of it's lifecycle MS were making a loss to break into the market. Yes, those costs have probably been recuperated but many would suggest that the issues with Nintendo are just the tip of the iceberg.
Xbox is admittedly currently a very sought after brand, however if they expect the trend where gaming moves from consoles to tablets and non Microsoft devices - then selling off the xbox side of things now is much better than running the brand into the ground. Xbox currently has the strength of not just being a games console, but also a young persons media server and god knows what else. I personally would like to see XMBC as is, on the xbox natively - but legally I'm guessing that will never happen.
Sony are too engrossed in their own legacies. Both MS and Sony spent billions in the last generation to give customers what they needed for a short term to beat out performance in PC gaming. If comoditized tablet/phone gaming was not on the upsurge then the DS would still rule the roost and consoles would still be the livingroom king. In the short term, I don't see much change, PCs will still get progressively better than the consoles (this happened before with the PS and PS2) HOWEVER, I'm not so sure either of the big players are prepared to commit so much resources to a shaky path.
Sega, made the mistake of doing so mid generation and paid the price, regardless of how good the dreamcast was and how elegant their legacy - they fell hard. There are already suggestions Nintendo should do a Sega and just license software. will they be the next kingpin of gaming to fall?
Depending on Microsofts strategy, IF it's a strong one and they really feel they can do something successful with the product. Hold onto it and score the goal. If you are not confident in your product, if forecasts suggest a continual downturn or if you are just not making the profit margins you expect - sell it off, while you still have a product to sell. Do remember that those that invest MS shares - have been unhappy because their value has not increased over time. Most sane people would say that was a great stable thing for a company - shareholders are not sane when they are not making a profit. Cutting out Xbox and selling it off for cold hard cash - would give the shares a huge boost and make MS a vibrant , slimmer company again. IF Microsoft expects great financial change in the coming years then being old IBM - will do them no good.
I know, we cling on to our consoles and youth like nobody can take it away but strategically it can be a very different picture. I remember sitting in an interview for a company called HMV in the UK 5 years ago and asking what they were doing to combat the advances of Napster and other digital formats. I was told from one of their head managers that it was a trend/fad not worrying about and that HMV had been in the business for years and would continue to profit for many years to come.
I never got the job ;) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21027043
I don't care and I also don't remember the last time I bought physical media - but I still felt part of my own childhood dying.
PS3 has always been a better seller in Europe than Xbox 360.
"We have an A-Bomb...what more do you want, mermaids?" --I.I. Rabi, speaking in defense of Robert Oppenheimer
The ship is sinking! Throw off anything that makes money! Yeah, that makes sense
Let's not worry at all about office environments and server software, licenses (and upgrades), not to mention all of the Microsoft certified equipment and peripherals -- no, I don't think they'll be hurting for money so bad that they'll drop one of the biggest cash cows they have left. The Xbox is safe, no doubt.
I'm no analyst, but have been supporting M$ products for a while. The trend I have noticed is that with the advent of Windows 8 they forgot about useful features that we use to depend on . Exchange 2013 vs Exchange 2010. 2010 gave me ACTUAL USEFUL information out of the gate. 2013 gives me minimal information out of the gate and I had to "go fish" to get relevant data. THAT'S STUPID, they also made it web based and that slowed EVERYTHING DOWN. So What do you do to correct the flaws in the GUI, drop to a non-standard power shell and work there. They are pushing you all to "the cloud" I really don't care what you tell me about all the advantages the data resides elsewhere. Backups? Data Locations? etc. If it's in house I know where that data is and I can control who accesses it. If someone makes a mistake in the cloud and others have access to your data, I hope you have a nice war chest for litigation. High risk - low benefit. M$ is alienating both it's customer base and those who support the software they produce. Paying for every license their software is on is in my thoughts greedy, most people can't afford that so they started looking at alternatives and started limiting how many machines they ran. They are lost and lack proper leadership and innovation. If the masses are pushed to the cloud then you can kill off PC's for the most part because people will only need tablets and a wireless provider. Makes search and seizure that more fun. You no longer get notified first your provider does then you do at least it's a possibility even if there is a protocol for that process.