Microsoft Surface Pro Arrives Feb. 9

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Microsoft Surface Pro Arrives Feb. 9

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday January 22, 2013 @12:36PM from the because-everybody's-clamoring-for-more-expensive-tablets dept.

adeelarshad82 writes "According to Microsoft, the Surface Windows 8 Pro will be available for purchase on Feb. 9 in the U.S. and Canada. As anticipated, the Surface Pro will be slightly thicker than the Surface with Windows RT, and will weigh about two pounds. The tablet is powered with an Intel Core i5 processor and 4GB of memory. It also includes an 802.11 a/b/g/n dual band Wi-Fi, a stylus for pressure-sensitive input, dual 720p HD webcams, a full-sized USB 3.0 port, microSDXC slot, and mini DisplayPort. Since the Surface Pro runs Windows 8 Pro, it will work with your corporate infrastructure, as well as any older apps that you used on Windows XP to 7. In terms of pricing, the 64GB version will cost $899 while the 128GB will set you back by $999."

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Let the bashing begin! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-22 12:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'll start: this thing is too expensive for what it is.
1. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MrEricSir · 2013-01-22 13:04 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Yeah, but this has a kickstand. A kickstand! Aren't those all the rage with the kids these days?
  
  --
  There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
2. Re:Let the bashing begin! by webmistressrachel · 2013-01-22 13:20 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Why would any professor worth his salt "Recommend" his students be locked into a device for consumption rather than one that more freely enables co-operation and creativity? Because that's not education is for, that's why.
  
  --
  This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
3. Re:Let the bashing begin! by CohibaVancouver · 2013-01-22 13:33 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Why would any professor worth his salt "Recommend" his students be locked into a device for consumption
  in other words, an iPad.
  
  rather than one that more freely enables co-operation and creativity?
  
  Or, in other words, a Surface Pro.
4. Re:Let the bashing begin! by BronsCon · 2013-01-22 13:36 · Score: 1
  
  And that's why one would recommend a tablet that runs a full desktop OS and can, in fact, function as a proper laptop for 99% of users with the addition of a simple keyboard. Android, as much as I love it, can't do that; iOS, as much as Apple users adore it, can't either.
  
  --
  APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
5. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2013-01-22 13:49 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  "The Surface Pro isn't good at anything."
  Or so you've read and like to repeat on the internet.
6. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ahabswhale · 2013-01-22 14:02 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Oh, you think I'm just spewing what everyone else is saying? That's true but only because it is true. Here's why...
  It's design sucks. A device can only be really good at one thing. This is not a new principle to design but pretty much the fucking foundation of industrial design.
  Want more?
  It's too heavy, expensive and crappy on battery power to be a good tablet, and it doesn't have a real keyboard or adequate screen size to make it a good laptop. Basically, they've built a "laplet" (or "tabtop", if you prefer). Unfortunately for Microsoft, nobody has ever asked for a laplet. This thing will fail even bigger than the Surface RT.
  Like I said, it sucks. Even Microsoft is starting to realize it so they've already decided to drop the price by $100.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
7. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Missing.Matter · 2013-01-22 14:44 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The Surface Pro isn't good at anything.
  Surface Pro is the best tablet that can run x86 applications. Show me another machine that is as thin, light, and powerful with a stylus. You can't.
  
  I'll also save you the trouble of reading two replies to your posts....
  
  It's too heavy, expensive and crappy on battery power to be a good tablet
  You might say a tablet is defined by being thin and light and having all day battery life, but that's different from what I want in a tablet. I want a stylus for writing. Surface Pro has this, 90% of tablets today don't. I want ports for USB drives, portable harddrives, video out. Surface Pro has this, 90% of tablets today don't. I want an SD card slot for expansion and swapping cards. Surface Pro has this, 90% of tablets today don't. Hell even Google's Nexus tablets don't have this. So in my book, Surface Pro is the only real tablet out there. It all depends on the user's needs. The Surface pro is a little thicker and heavier than iPad (.5 lbs and .5") but the tradeoff is more power with an i5 and compatibility with millions of applications and devices. So great for you if your iPad or Android tablet is thinner and lighter and lasts all day. I don't care because they are as useless as rocks for my needs, and I'll gladly pay $899 for a tablet that does what I want.
  
  and it doesn't have a real keyboard or adequate screen size to make it a good laptop.
  What about this isn't a "real" keyboard? Or the infinite variety of bluetooth keyboards or wired USB keyboards that can be plugged in? I also fail to see how 10.6" is not an adequate screen size but 11.6" on the Macbook Air somehow is. That extra 1" is the threshold? I might similarly say the Macbook Air has inadequate resolution (1366×768 vs 1920x1080 on Surface Pro). Or that Macbook Air is too heavy (2.38lbs vs 2.01lbs). Or too thick (0.68" vs 0.5"). Or too expensive ($999 vs $899).
8. Re:Let the bashing begin! by jfdavis668 · 2013-01-22 14:47 · Score: 1
  
  I put a kickstand on my bike, and all the neighborhood kids are amazed by it. They never even heard of one. I was just tired of finding something to lean it on.
9. Re:Let the bashing begin! by exomondo · 2013-01-22 15:03 · Score: 1
  
  Except the MBA fucking rocks.
  Wow i must have bought the wrong one! It's a good computer but I'm not sure i can get that excited about it.
10. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Luckyo · 2013-01-22 15:15 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I'd say the main reason it "sucks" is OS. It's still a horrifying chimera of desktop and tablet, and does neither thing well. Hardware itself actually looks good enough for what I would use it for, if a bit pricy. But I'm not into tablets anyway.
  That said if I were, that actually looks good. Solid build, essentially a laptop inside the screen with attachable keyboard. I can see this replacing an ultrabook for those who want to replace one with a tablet, but need x86.
11. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Billlagr · 2013-01-22 15:18 · Score: 2
  
  I'm going to try that! I put a playing card on with a clothes peg to make motorbike sounds as I rode..but a kickstand! Genius!
12. Re:Let the bashing begin! by steelfood · 2013-01-22 15:29 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  No, it's not expensive. It's just plain useless.
  Windows RT was a dismal failure, and Windows 8 will be equally disastrous. It fails on the touch front and on the mouse and keyboard front. Having tried it extensively, allow me to name the ways:
  Touch:
  1) The Metro home screen is the only touch-friendly aspect of it. However, it is filled with useless Microsoft apps that can't function without an internet connection and are tied to largely inferior Microsoft internet services.
  2) It has the usual miserable Windows software keyboard and handwriting recognition, with fairly limited support.
  3) Outside of Metro, the remainder is the usual touch-unfriendly Windows interface meant for a mouse and keyboard, where fat fingers will simply fail. This is what gets me the most. If the thing is a touchscreen, then it should be configured out of the box to be touch-friendly. Instead, it is configured as un-touch-friendly as possible. And worse, while you can say switch Explorer to use large icons on a grid instead of the list or details view, many screens simply don't have a touch-friendly interface.
  4) The edge swiping is annoying and easy to do accidentally, The left edge "screen list" is useful, but only to bring up Metro apps.
  5) Having to go to Metro just to access the swipe that will bring up a button to get to the list of programs is painfully clunky. The bottom swipe should be active on the desktop screen, and it should be the list of applications, not an extra button.
  6) The right swipe should have been able to access the entire control panel, but instead, it's largely useless.
  On the mouse and keyboard front:
  1) The Metro UI and swiping is as horrible as expected. Some things have Metro and old Windows equivalents, but most do not. It's incredibly annoying to switch between mouse and keyboard, and touch, and that's pretty much what's necessary to use Metro.
  2) And I don't think I need to mention that you can't even get to your software list without going through Metro, which is already a three step affair even by touch.
  3) It doesn't come with the cover, which is another $150.
  Oh, and did I mention that you have to "activate" Windows before you can use some of its functionality? It's hardware made by Microsoft but there's somehow still a chance copy of Windows on it can be a bootleg. Activation is automatic with an internet connection, fortunately, but it's ridiculous that it's even necessary.
  I expect Windows 8 to be slightly better than RT, in that it can run traditional apps. And there are third-party programs to minimize the damage Metro causes for those who want to do useful work with it. But that's about as good as it'll get. It's still a touch disaster, and a fairly useless "entertainment" device (RT comes with Office, but no games preinstalled).
  Microsoft needs to shape up if they want to even have a shot at the tablet market. They possess a split personality disorder both on the UI front and on the developer front that they very much need to ditch. If they can't seem to figure out what kind of machine it is (or develop a separate "personality" for each purpose), nobody else will be able to. And people will avoid it.
  For starters, they're going to have to revamp the entire look-and-feel of their tablet Windows to be touch-centric. It'll be easy to go from touch back to mouse and keyboard, because the mouse is just a very, very fine finger. But they need to commit to it, instead of leaving half of the screens in the old Windows UI and the other (useless) half touch-friendly.
  And they'll have to include the keyboard out of the box. The software keyboard is a stinking manure pile. Nobody's going to buy a Surface/Pro without an external keyboard. Nobody's going to touch Windows RT/8 without a real keyboard.
  Portable work devices are rarely perpetually-connected, while entertainment devices are usually connected. Including Office with RT to make it a useful work device was genius, but not including any games was equally boneheaded stupid.
  Only if they can fix the split personality disorder in the rumored Windows 8.1, could it be a useable OS. Otherwise, it'll just be another disaster.
  
  --
  "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
13. Re:Let the bashing begin! by thoth · 2013-01-22 15:52 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  The thing you are overlooking is your needs aren't a significant part of the market. A stylus and all that other stuff? If those were major selling points then Microsoft would have been successful with tablets say... 15 years ago.
  Your repetitious "90% of today's tablets don't" blah blah. Sounds like a prediction that Surface will battle and claw it's way to... 10% market share?
14. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ahabswhale · 2013-01-22 15:56 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Surface Pro is the best tablet that can run x86 applications.
  I don't need a tablet that can run x86 apps. Users don't give a flying shit about "x86" they just give a shit about having good apps to run. iOS and Android already offer that in spades. And the Samsung Galaxy Note supports the stylus in ALL apps, not just specially written ones.
  
  Show me another machine that is as thin, light, and powerful with a stylus. You can't.
  
  Apparently, you're not too hip on the tablet scene: http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxynote/note_10.1/index.html?type=find
  It's thinner, lighter, cheaper, has longer battery life, 3G, and is designed for use with a stylus, etc.
  
  You might say a tablet is defined by being thin and light and having all day battery life, but that's different from what I want in a tablet. I want a stylus for writing. Surface Pro has this, 90% of tablets today don't.
  I think I already covered this argument.
  
  I want ports for USB drives, portable harddrives, video out. Surface Pro has this, 90% of tablets today don't.
  
  USB drives and hard drives? What fucking century do you live in?? And pretty much everyone has a video out capability now (not that I've seen anyone ever use that feature before other than fucking around).
  
  want an SD card slot for expansion and swapping cards. Surface Pro has this, 90% of tablets today don't.
  lol, lots of tablets have SD card slots dude. Have you ever googled an android tablet before?
  
  The Surface pro is a little thicker and heavier than iPad (.5 lbs and .5") but the tradeoff is more power with an i5 and compatibility with millions of applications and devices. So great for you if your iPad or Android tablet is thinner and lighter and lasts all day. I don't care because they are as useless as rocks for my needs, and I'll gladly pay $899 for a tablet that does what I want.
  And what are your needs? You mention all these features you want that the Surface Pro just happens to have but seriously, what is your job or hobby that requires these features? I'm having trouble envisioning it. I'm willing to say that it's possible that there's a small group of people the Surface Pro would be a good match for but I think it's a very, very small group. Congrats to you if you're one of them.
  And FYI, that $899 does not include a keyboard. Feel free to tack on another $130.
  Honestly, based on everything you've said, I find it hard to imagine how the the average consumer would choose a Surface Pro over a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1. Keep in mind, I'm not any kind of Samsung fanboy.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
15. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ahabswhale · 2013-01-22 16:01 · Score: 1
  
  Skeletools (and the like) actually have a primary function: to be a portable tool kit and it does a good job of it. Would you try to fix your car with it? Fuck no. But it can be a nice tool on a camping trip where you cannot cart around 100lbs of tools with you (and would be overkill anyway).
  I have played with the RT. I don't want to get into the RT because that's not what this thread is about. I'm glad that your happy with your new device.
  As for your last statement, I guess we'll see what the market has to say about it soon enough.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
16. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Luckyo · 2013-01-22 16:18 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  You solved the entire problem for microsoft with its abysmal win8 sales and massive consumer rejection of the OS!
  Congratulations!
17. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2013-01-22 16:32 · Score: 1
  
  My point is that this is more like a skeletool. It may not be as good at any one thing but when you add up all the different things it's good enough at you get something that's pretty great.
  I brought up RT only because it's the same basic physical design.
  We will see. But even if it doesn't gain a huge chunk of the tablet / ultrabook market share does that mean it has failed? OSX is still at about the same market share it's always been at but people don't say it has failed. However it works out I'm glad to see MS try something bold and not just letting the OEMs race to the bottom. I wish they'd done the same thing back in the Tablet PC days to be honest.
18. Re:Let the bashing begin! by aliquis · 2013-01-22 16:38 · Score: 1
  
  Why would any professor worth his salt "Recommend" his students be locked into a device for consumption
  in other words, an iPad.
  "But OS X is UNIX and I've heard that's super open!"
19. Re:Let the bashing begin! by hairyfish · 2013-01-22 16:43 · Score: 1
  
  These young whipper snappers and their rock and roll music. Get off my lawn!
20. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ahabswhale · 2013-01-22 16:51 · Score: 2
  
  Good points. Honestly, I wish them well because I think the more competition the better.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
21. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ahabswhale · 2013-01-22 16:53 · Score: 1
  
  Hah...I guess we'll see.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
22. Re:Let the bashing begin! by hairyfish · 2013-01-22 17:03 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The Surface has a place. 90% of the corporate world use x86 apps, good luck running those on any other tablet. I've worked a few places that tried to do the iPad or Galaxy Tab thing and it never works because productivity requires a keyboard, a mouse, and corporate apps (which just happen to mostly be x86). We currently pay $1500 for a corporate laptop and another $500 for an iPad for a lot of our users. Even at $1100 (incl some accessories this is a win for us). I'm sure we're not the only company in the world in this situation.
23. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ahabswhale · 2013-01-22 17:24 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  Yeah, I get what you're saying with the corporate angle but most corps don't bother getting people iPads (unless they are salesmen or execs), so they can just issue a standard Windows laptop and call it done.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
24. Re:Let the bashing begin! by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-22 17:26 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Surface Pro is the best tablet that can run x86 applications. Show me another machine that is as thin, light, and powerful with a stylus. You can't.
  Sure I can. Thinner, lighter, Core i5, and it has a stylus.
25. Re:Let the bashing begin! by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-22 17:29 · Score: 2
  
  For classroom accessory, laptops make much more sense, since you have desks to place them on - and they're much more convenient that way than a tablet would be. And the laptop can have a touch screen, too, and many newer ones (also with Win8) do.
26. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MightyMartian · 2013-01-22 17:37 · Score: 1
  
  Who actually cares about a tablet that can run win32 and win64 software? The overwhelming majority of those programs were designed for PCs, and aren't well matched to tablets. The genius of iOS and Android is that the whole platform is built for mobile use. I can't imagine trying to run, say, Simply Accounting or Office 2007 on a tablet. It would be nightmarish.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
27. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MightyMartian · 2013-01-22 17:38 · Score: 1
  
  But I don't get it. The majority of x86 apps are not designed to work on tablets. Whether it can launch Quickbooks or not is irrelevant if actually trying to use Quickbooks is an unbelievably awful experience.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
28. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2013-01-22 17:47 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Aren't most corporate apps these days really Web apps? Where I work (very big, very multinational software company), the only things that everyone has to use and that actually have to *run* on people's machines are Web browser, VPN, and maybe an office suite.
  Tablets already have the first 2 covered quite well. (It's not like we're sitting around on our thumbs waiting on ports of Firefox or AnyConnect to iOS and Android.) And who the fuck is going to write a 20-page whitepaper or 50-slide PPT preso on a tablet?
  So we'll have the sales guys going for e-peen points waving their tablets at each other, while (surprise, surprise) not doing much actual work on them at all. And 90% of corporate workers will still be using desktops or laptops.
  So yes, in this case, x86 compatibility is not much of a draw at all.
  (Now for me *personally* it might be fun to get one of these and to try to put Linux or Android on it. But "fun" does not a business case make.)
  
  --
  Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
29. Re:Let the bashing begin! by LordLimecat · 2013-01-22 17:48 · Score: 1
  
  and it doesn't have a real keyboard
  Sure it does, thats why it has a keyboard connector on the bottom.
  I only got to try it briefly in a store, but what youre describing makes it sound like youve never used the thing. It is a tad heavy, sure, but not overwhelmingly so, and the keyboards were actually quite good.
  
  Unfortunately for Microsoft, nobody has ever asked for a laplet.
  I mean, its not like theres a market for iPads with keyboards, right?
  Surface isnt a laplet, its in the same market as iPads are, and its quite a large market.
30. Re:Let the bashing begin! by LordLimecat · 2013-01-22 17:51 · Score: 1
  
  Tablets 15 years ago were massively prone to breakage, had awful touch interfaces, had awful touch hardware, and were generally bad at everything they tried to be.
  How many people have you seen with iPads and keyboards? What do you suppose those keyboards are for, if not "office-y" stuff? You dont think having the full MS Office available for surface (and built in by default) will have an effect here?
31. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2013-01-22 17:55 · Score: 1
  
  Tablets could be a natural classroom accessory for technical fields of study. Instead of showing Power Point decks, profs could beam rich slides and video clips to hundreds of students toting these tablets.
  Or they could, you know, just have one big screen at the front of the room, and show the slides and vids on that?
  
  --
  Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
32. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2013-01-22 18:00 · Score: 1
  
  And that's why one would recommend a tablet that runs a full desktop OS and can, in fact, function as a proper laptop for 99% of users with the addition of a simple keyboard.
  So 99% of those users would be perfectly well served by a laptop that is cheaper than surface + keyboard.
  Thanks for enlightening us. :)
  
  --
  Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
33. Re:Let the bashing begin! by BronsCon · 2013-01-22 18:07 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, and those who want a tablet would also have to buy a tablet. And those tho want to use their desktop applications when all they happened to bring was their tablet will be glad they have a Surface Pro.
  
  --
  APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
34. Re:Let the bashing begin! by blind+biker · 2013-01-22 18:09 · Score: 1
  
  Show me another machine that is as thin, light, and powerful with a stylus. You can't.
  
  Actually, the Surface Pro is a brick - it's heavy as hell, and there is a good reason for that: the oversized battery. The device has a much higher power dissipation than any other existing tablet, and even the oversized battery can keep it "alive" for 4 hours only.
  As for a tablet that is actually light and thin, and "powerful with a stylus", the current king of the hill is the Samsung Galaxy Note II.
  
  --
  "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
35. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ShakaUVM · 2013-01-22 18:11 · Score: 1
  
  >Users don't give a flying shit about "x86" they just give a shit about having good apps to run. iOS and Android already offer that in spades.
  Uh, what? Being able to play Crusader Kings 2 on a tablet is a huge selling point.
  I just returned yet another Android tablet that broke on me, and so have a bunch of in-store credit burning a hole in my pocket... I'm seriously debating getting the Surface Pro.
  I hate Windows 8 with a passion, though, and the touch cover is terrible. So I'll wait to see if I can live with the type cover.
36. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Ocker3 · 2013-01-22 18:17 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly, Apple has had to bodge together a whole suit of programs to get iPads to some kind of manageable state for large-scale Enterprise rollouts, with an x86 architecture a Win8 tablet will use a Huge amount of existing WinXP/Win7 systems and allow huge ease of use, especially authenticating to corporate networks wirelessly which is a Huge pain on an iPad. Most Enterprise systems lock an account after too many failed password tries, and require users to regularly change passwords. iPads don't know how to ask a user for an updated username/password if it can't connect wirelessly and keeps hammering the connection, forcing all kinds of nasty dodges.
37. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Ocker3 · 2013-01-22 18:18 · Score: 1
  
  High Schools sick of trying to manage huge fleets of iPads will go for Win8 tablets in Droves
38. Re:Let the bashing begin! by bemymonkey · 2013-01-22 18:46 · Score: 1
  
  And Windows 8 sucks. I bought a Windows 8 Atom tablet for the insane battery life (OneNote FTW!), and for everything else, it's more or less unusable. Sure, Chrome more or less works, so I can check e-mail and use Google Reader and so on, but the OS itself (the Metro/"Modern" part) is horrible... undiscoverable, unintuitive UI (missing a function? Try swiping in or out from any of the four edges.... stupidest UI paradigm I've ever heard of) and the incredibly cluttered takes-ages-to-reorganize start screen... it's just SHIT.
  Can't wait for a de-Modern-ified Windows 9...
39. Re:Let the bashing begin! by bemymonkey · 2013-01-22 19:03 · Score: 2
  
  Are you really planning on using a tablet tethered to a power cord all day?
40. Re:Let the bashing begin! by bemymonkey · 2013-01-22 19:08 · Score: 1
  
  Now all it needs is a bike mount! :P
41. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MakerDusk · 2013-01-22 19:14 · Score: 1
  
  I don't need a tablet that can run x86 apps. Users don't give a flying shit about "x86" they just give a shit about having good apps to run. iOS and Android already offer that in spades
  Why would anyone want to be able to run programs that tie into doing things other that wasting time? This one sounds unemployed, or in a low end job where he doesn't get to use a computer.
42. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MakerDusk · 2013-01-22 19:21 · Score: 1
  
  I've tried Office 365 on a pro with a type cover... It feels like a laptop. We've all used office on a laptop at some point, so there's really not much to be said there.
43. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MakerDusk · 2013-01-22 19:25 · Score: 1
  
  I'm in physics... I can't use a laptop for notes because there is no possible way to keep up with equations. Something like this would allow me to take notes, and still whip out python, fortran, or R as needed. With the ability to use it like an ereader for journals and those annoying 100 page pdfs that the profs send out. Touch screens on laptops are pretty much just a gimmick: try writing notes on them. Useless.
44. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MakerDusk · 2013-01-22 19:26 · Score: 1
  
  Sadly, the new powerpoint supports that via sharepoint.
45. Re:Let the bashing begin! by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-22 19:40 · Score: 1
  
  There are some Win8 tablets with digitizer pens, though most of them are convertibles - e.g. Samsung ATIV (which, unlike x86 Surface, also has a cheaper Atom version).
46. Re:Let the bashing begin! by bemymonkey · 2013-01-22 19:43 · Score: 1
  
  Corners? What ******* corners? I'm using a tablet, so there's no mouse pointer. Do you know how hard it is to exactly hit one of the "hot corners" with your finger on a capacitive touchscreen? And why would you try to? There's nothing visually there to touch!
  As for the start button... that pulls up the start menu... how the **** is that supposed to help?
  Don't get me wrong - I can get around the system just fine. It just pisses me off that the UI is so unintuitive - if you don't figure it out accidentally look it up, how are you supposed to know "hot corners" exist? Swiping edges... WTF? And they're different in every app too... the settings charm for instance - being able to access the control panel from the settings charm ONLY if you're on the desktop.. Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.
47. Re:Let the bashing begin! by beelsebob · 2013-01-22 20:06 · Score: 1
  
  Surface Pro is the best tablet that can run x86 applications. Show me another machine that is as thin, light, and powerful with a stylus. You can't.
  
  The problem is that it isn't good at it, as the parent pointed out.
  So I want to run an x86 windows application... What's that? I need to tap on a very small area to activate this button designed for use with a mouse? Crap. What's that? I need to hover over this item as I could if I had a mouse? Crap. What's that? I need to right click this item, as it was designed to work with a mouse? Crap.
  Running x86 windows applications is not an advantage on a tablet.
48. Re:Let the bashing begin! by beelsebob · 2013-01-22 20:09 · Score: 2
  
  The Surface has a place. 90% of the corporate world use x86 apps, good luck running those on any other tablet.
  Good luck running them on the surface pro too, when you discover you can't actually click the tiny buttons, hover over things, or right click on things.
  There's a reason those god awful windows XP tablets from years ago never caught on –it's because they weren't actually capable of running any of the software that "ran" on them.
49. Re:Let the bashing begin! by beelsebob · 2013-01-22 20:13 · Score: 2
  
  Uh, what? Being able to play Crusader Kings 2 on a tablet is a huge selling point.
  Unfortunately... you can't actually play it, because it's designed with a mouse/track pad/track point in mind, not a touch screen. As soon as you want to get your character sheet open, and try to right click on that portrait you're going to realise why this was such a terrible idea.
50. Re:Let the bashing begin! by bemymonkey · 2013-01-22 20:55 · Score: 1
  
  Oh yeah, that stupid 3km long wall of icons that extends indefinitely off the right of my screen in a jumble with no discernable order (and reorganizing the icons without a mouse takes about 10 seconds per icon - IF you're moving it to a spot that's immediately visible on the screen! If you want to move something from the end of the list to the front [so that it's visible right away when you press the start button] using a touchscreen, it's a big fidgety mess that takes even longer) and no subfolders... definitely a large start menu.
  Oh wait, no, it's just a cluster**** of everything that's installed in a jumbled mess.
51. Re:Let the bashing begin! by caywen · 2013-01-22 21:25 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  A device can only be really good at one thing. This is not a new principle to design but pretty much the fucking foundation of industrial design.
  
  You seem so sure of yourself, evident by the unnecessary profanity. And yet many highly successful products both past and present betray your assertion.
  MP3 + Video player => iPod Touch and its ilk
  MP3 + Video player + Browser + Apps + Phone => smartphones
  Passenger car + SUV => Crossover SUV cars
  Game Console + Media Center => PS3, Xbox 360, soon PS4 and Xbox 4
  PC + LCD monitor hybrids => All in one PC's, iMac
  Compact Camera + Interchangeable lens => Micro 4/3 (e.g. Sony NEX)
  Printer + Scanner + Fax => Printer / Scanner / Fax (duh)
  Radio + CD Player => Boombox, FM Walkman
  Power Screwdriver + Power Drill => Combo Power Screwdriver / Drill
  Hammer + Crowbar => Pretty much any hammer you find today
  and the list goes on and on and on. Pretty much every one of these carries with it compromises that can be lambasted by anyone inclined to do so. In all successful cases, the benefits match or exceed the compromise. Some of these examples are more enduring than others, but the bottom line is that compromised hybrid designs are a fine way to go about product design.
52. Re:Let the bashing begin! by caywen · 2013-01-22 21:46 · Score: 1
  
  This.
  I've posted on this before, but I am using an Acer W500 with Win8, and have found the experience to be surprisingly productive. At night, I lie around browsing tablet style, and it's pretty much on par with any iPad or Android tablet for most things. Win8 is still appallingly crappy in some areas (I'm looking at you, Windows Mail), but that's a software thing, not a design / hardware thing. In the morning, sometimes I work from home, and so I plug it into my 1080p 24" LCD, keyboard, mouse, and am happily opening terminals, browser windows, and other tools. The tablet screen acts as a second monitor - that's cool, too. My scanner, printer, camera, external DVD, and every USB peripheral I have work perfectly fine.
  OS team: Good job, thanks for the speed improvements, retaining great hardware compatibility, and decent stability.
  UI team: Ha ha, you guys are funny. You're not fired.
  Apps team: You guys are not even funny, so you're fired.
53. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ShakaUVM · 2013-01-22 22:41 · Score: 1
  
  You open your character sheet with a left click.
  Right click is almost entirely unused in the game (only as a shortcut to immediately enter the diplomacy screen with someone).
54. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Barryke · 2013-01-22 22:49 · Score: 1
  
  Mod parent up. If i could, i would.
  I couldn't even be bothered to waste my time arguing with those haters. Glad parent took the effort!
  
  --
  Hivemind harvest in progress..
55. Re:Let the bashing begin! by beelsebob · 2013-01-22 23:12 · Score: 2
  
  adjustable screen DPI
  I use it day to day. The issue is that if you're running a desktop app on a tablet you have a choice – make the buttons big enough to tap on, but for no content to fit on the screen (because it wasn't designed to run on a tablet), or make content fit on the screen, but the controlls to small to use. By contrast, software actually designed for tablets does not have this problem, because it's UI is laid out in such a way that content is accessible despite big chunky controls. This also does not solve the hovering or right clicking issue.
  
  touchpads
  Again, I use one every day. The surface pro does not have one, it has a touch screen. One is available as a $150 optional accessory. If you're going to use it all day with the optional accessory attached then what you have is a screen with a keyboard and touch pad that fold up into it, we have a name for that, a laptop. We can already buy cheaper, lighter, smaller, better ones than the surface pro.
56. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Sepodati · 2013-01-22 23:42 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't that the point of Win RT? Everything available there has been designed for a tablet, no?
57. Re: Let the bashing begin! by MachineShedFred · 2013-01-22 23:48 · Score: 1
  
  I've seen this said before, and it's rubbish. If the new UI is just a glorified Start menu, why not allow the user to revert to the previous style of Start menu? XP did that. Vista and 7 did that.
  Also, why do I want programs running in my start menu, moving things around and giving me seizures? I don't. And the "charms" off the right edge of something that I have to scroll through 8 pages of bullshit just to get to the settings and preferences for the computer? Great design choice there, instead of the right click it has been for about 17 years.
  The biggest problem with Windows 8 is that you are forced into the new UI by Microsoft's hubris, and corporations are not going to spend untold hours retraining all their workers to use that piece of shit.
  Even Apple made LaunchPad completely optional when they launched Lion, and they don't exactly have a long history of user choice; but they knew that replacing Finder with some iPad work-alike horseshit UI would be the death of Mac OS X.
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
58. Re:Let the bashing begin! by thoth · 2013-01-23 02:22 · Score: 1
  
  Tablets 15 years ago were massively prone to breakage, had awful touch interfaces, had awful touch hardware, and were generally bad at everything they tried to be.
  How many people have you seen with iPads and keyboards? What do you suppose those keyboards are for, if not "office-y" stuff?
  Hm, most of the time I see people with tablets, outside my group at work where we are evaluating them, is at coffee shops or the airport. (And if you're curious, we have 2 Surface RTs and probably a dozen or more iPads). As an informal guess, I'd estimate ~25% of those sightings are tablets with keyboards. This is all anecdotal and I'm not sure what numbers are in places like NYC or SF. Something more accurate might be the volume of sales for these keyboard addons, but I'm not sure where to dig that up
  I myself own 2 tablets, a Nexus 7 and an iPad Mini, but don't have an external keyboard for either.
  Anyway, my personal opinion is that having MS Office and/or x86 compatibility will not be a significant draw, due to the current prices. These things are competing against iOS and Android, both of which are cheaper, sell cheaper apps, and have an enormous library as well. x86 compat is literally Microsoft's only "advantage", so they'll be flogging that constantly.
  For the $1000 a Surface Pro plus keyboard cover will cost, you may as well buy an actual notebook, especially when you are stuck purchasing desktop-priced x86 apps. On top of that, most (all?) current x86 apps do not remotely have a UI appropriate for a tablet, and that will need to be addressed immediately by Microsoft and/or developers, or the Microsoft's foray will limp along like a plane with all engines on fire, and eventually crash and burn.
  
  You dont think having the full MS Office available for surface (and built in by default) will have an effect here?
  In summary, no. Longer answer: maybe, if all x86 apps get revamped for tablet/touch UIs, app prices drop down to the new table-ecosystem pricing levels, and their hardware pricing drops by at least 25%. I may be horribly off, but this looks like a perfect storm of disappointment. Microsoft will avoid total failure by propping this up with cash infusions.
59. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MightyMartian · 2013-01-23 02:31 · Score: 1
  
  If I have to haul around a separate keyboard, it isn't a laptop.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
60. Re:Let the bashing begin! by organgtool · 2013-01-23 05:01 · Score: 1
  
  The thing you are overlooking is your needs aren't a significant part of the market.
  How do you know that since this is one of the first serious contenders to offer these features in the post-iPad market?
  
  A stylus and all that other stuff? If those were major selling points then Microsoft would have been successful with tablets say... 15 years ago.
  All of Microsoft's previous attempts to make tablets were half-assed. Microsoft didn't make the hardware, so they couldn't offer a tightly integrated experience. And from the software perspective, Microsoft's previous attempts at tablets involved slapping a few shoddy apps onto an OS that wasn't designed for touch input. I'm not particularly enamored by Windows 8, but I have to admit that Microsoft's latest attempt at a tablet has a significantly larger amount of effort behind it and at least they are attempting to deliver an intriguing product that crosses the boundaries of laptops and tablets.
61. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Lanforod · 2013-01-23 05:06 · Score: 2
  
  Yep. Corporate webapps that require Java and/or Flash. Good luck getting those to run well on an iOS or Android device. My opinion is that some companies will realize that the pro is a viable replacement for the desktops, laptops, and tablets for everyone. Just need some sort of docking station for when at a desk to connect it to a full keyboard, mouse, and large screen or two, and perhaps wired ethernet. I suppose the display port and usb3 ports would be able to handle all that. If MS doesn't already have such a device, the first company to make a good one could make a killing on it.
62. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ahabswhale · 2013-01-23 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  I've tried the Surface RT but not the Pro. The keyboard on the RT is good for what it is but it doesn't compare to a real keyboard.
  The Surface Pro IS a laplet. The RT is a tablet.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
63. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Missing.Matter · 2013-01-23 06:12 · Score: 1
  
  I don't need a tablet that can run x86 apps. Users don't give a flying shit about "x86" they just give a shit about having good apps to run.
  I know you don't care about that. But don't say "Users don't give a flying shit" as if you're speaking for every user. *I* do. I know many other users that do as well. You might even be speaking for *most* users, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that Surface Pro is useless for *everyone*, especially businesses, which have been ill-served by the current tablet offerings.
  
  I used to work for a company in 2009 that supplied Tablet PCs to regional businesses. We sold to schools, hospitals, contractors, government, warehouses, construction.... this was back in the day of Tablet PCs before the iPad. They loved these machines, but I heard several complaints more than any other: weight, thickness, battery life, processing power, and cost. Notice none of what I listed has anything to do with touch optimized apps. Surface is half as thick, half the weight, half the price, twice the battery, 4x the power as some of these systems we used to sell. These same large corporate customers are going to be eating tablets like this up.
  
  And the Samsung Galaxy Note supports the stylus in ALL apps, not just specially written ones... Apparently, you're not too hip on the tablet scene. It's thinner, lighter, cheaper, has longer battery life, 3G, and is designed for use with a stylus, etc.
  I'm quite "hip" thank you very much. My first tablet was the Compaq TC1000 in 2003, so I've been using tablets of various makes and models for about a decade now. You might have missed where I said *powerful*. I thought I was among geeks here. With a core i5, Surface has more horsepower than any Andrloid or iOS tablet available. You cannot get away with blasting battery life but not admitting the tradeoff is a much much powerful processor.
  
  I've used the Galaxy Note 10.1, and it was slow and laggy as hell, even with its quad core A9. Using apps side by side was basically useless. Maybe this has changed with the 4.1 update, as I haven't used it since, but it still doesn't change the fact the processor cannot compare with any 3rd gen i5. Add to that the low RAM and low res screen and the specs don't compare at all.
  
  Second, I can tell you're not very familiar with stylus support in tablets. Windows uses semi-supervised machine learning to actually learn your own handwriting. You train it at first, then it learns over time your vocabulary and handwriting style. The Note 10.1 can pretty much only recognize cursive from my experience, and has a real hard time with my combined print/script handwriting. On my Windows 7 tablet I have probably 99% accuracy (1 in every 100 words wrong), which is better than I can say about my typing.
  
  Windows also has a killer app for stylus input: OneNote. It's the bar against which I've compared every note taking application, and they all fall short. I won't get into why it's such a great app here (unless you really want to know), but it suffices to say OneNote alone makes the stylus a must have feature for a tablet.
  
  USB drives and hard drives? What fucking century do you live in?? And pretty much everyone has a video out capability now
  What century? You seriously think portable hard drives and USB drives are antiquated? What would you have me use? The "cloud"? Aside from the obvious security, reliability, and connectivity issues, USB drives and hard drives have much much higher bandwidth (USB 3.0 on Surface) and capacity/$.
  
  As for video out, yes many tablets have this but not in combination with the other ports. Further, their implementation is often crippled, as with iPad; it requires a dongle to use, and when projected, doesn't change the aspect ratio of the display. When I connect iPad to a 24" 16:9 screen I get a 3:4 image, and all the apps are 3:4.
  
  The best is when you play a 16:9 video you get a 16:9 video in a 4:3
64. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ahabswhale · 2013-01-23 06:19 · Score: 2
  
  lol, now show a list of all the hybrid concepts that have utterly failed. It's miles long. And keep in mind that some of your examples are pretty damn weak:
  Hammer + crowbar: It's a mediocre crowbar. I've done a lot of demo work and a single purpose crowbar works much, much better.
  MP3+Video player: It's just a media player. It's still serving one purpose.
  Camera w/interchangeable lens: It's still designed for a single purpose: taking good pictures. Interchangeable lenses enable that.
  Need I go on?
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
65. Re:Let the bashing begin! by ahabswhale · 2013-01-23 06:30 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you for your well reasoned response. Well done, sir.
  Try not to create any robots that are going to take over the world.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
66. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Missing.Matter · 2013-01-23 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  What you're missing is that there are different degrees of usability. Programs like Excel or yes, Quickbooks, which are very keyboard and data input intensive will not work well on tablet. But a program like Photoshop has many advantages on a tablet, even in its current form, such as being able to draw freehand with a pressure sensitive stylus. No, the buttons and interface are not touch friendly, but you'll have a stylus in your hand which is just as precise as a mouse. It's all about what you want the tablet for.
67. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Missing.Matter · 2013-01-23 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I'll admit most people will have a difficulty using applications with tiny buttons. This is all solved with the stylus: it covers clicking tiny buttons, hovering, and right clicking.
  
  There's a reason those god awful windows XP tablets from years ago never caught on –it's because they weren't actually capable of running any of the software that "ran" on them.
  Yup, they were underpowered, overpriced ($2000+), thick as hell (1+"), and lasted about an hour if you were lucky. Surface Pro has none of these problems.
68. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Missing.Matter · 2013-01-23 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  I knew you'd be responding after I read what I wrote. I have a tendency to conflate Surface Pro and Windows 8 tablets in general. Surface Pro, the Samsung 700T, the Acer W700, and others like them all fill a niche that iPad, Kindle Fire et al. don't. As far as I'm concerned, The 700T and the Surface Pro are in the same class in terms of utility. The only reason I don't own one today is I like the smaller screen of the Surface. Otherwise it's perfect.
69. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Missing.Matter · 2013-01-23 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  What's that? I need to tap on a very small area to activate this button designed for use with a mouse?
  Stylus.
  
  I need to hover over this item as I could if I had a mouse?
  Stylus
  
  I need to right click this item, as it was designed to work with a mouse?
  Stylus
  
  Running x86 windows applications is not an advantage on a tablet.
  It is if you want functionality not provided by any touch app. It's about options and flexibility. If I'm out in the field and I need a certain x86 application, I might be able to get by just fine with a 2lb, .5" tablet I can hold in my hand. If I have an iPad, I need to bring a second laptop (possibly thicker and heavier) and find a place to sit it down to achieve what I could do standing with a stylus. It won't work for every application, especially if it's keyboard heavy, but it will work for many.
70. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MightyMartian · 2013-01-23 07:48 · Score: 1
  
  But you underline my point. Yes, some legacy programs may be partially usable in a tablet format, but even there the interfaces have been built for keyboard and mouse in mind. Going forward, software interfaces will be built to take advantage of the Windows 8 Surface and Windows 8 RT interface. But that undermines the whole idea of an x86 tablet as something special. Since, going forward, it's likely most developers will be writing software to run on both x86 Windows 8 and ARM-based RT, legacy x86 means squat. Claiming Surface is worth double what I could pay for a tolerably useful Windows notebook because it can run legacy x86 apps is a pretty empty claim in the long run. Nobody is seriously going to be running Win32 and pre-Windows 8 Win64 apps with any regularity on Surface.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
71. Re:Let the bashing begin! by caywen · 2013-01-23 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  Completely legitimate comment to make. And one which Microsoft and Intel would surely approve of.
  Personally, I am just as interested in the Acer W700 as SPro. Its dock, I admit, looks like it was made by Hasbro, but otherwise also looks on par.
72. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Missing.Matter · 2013-01-23 10:57 · Score: 1
  
  Since, going forward, it's likely most developers will be writing software to run on both x86 Windows 8 and ARM-based RT, legacy x86 means squat.
  This would be true if all legacy x86 applications were ported over to WinRT. This will of course never happen. I bought Photoshop CS4, and it works fine for me. Adobe will probably never update Adobe CS4 for WinRT. They might release a new product and want me to pay for that, but that doesn't interest me, because the software I already own is perfectly usable with a stylus.
  
  This further applies to libraries that are x86 only. I have various libraries that apply to my field that are pretty old and are not released for ARM, and probably never will be. But I still need them. I have various back-end applications that use these libraries, and have no GUI of their own. They work in the background and work just as well on desktop, laptop, or tablet.
  
  Finally, Intel's x86 processors are currently vastly more powerful than ARM offerings, and there's no indication ARM will ever contend for the performance crown. Even without x86 backwards compatibility, the sheer power of these processors is useful for someone like me who values computation time more than total run time. I'll gladly take the 50% hit in battery life if it means the computations I'm trying to perform don't take forever.
73. Re:Let the bashing begin! by MightyMartian · 2013-01-23 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  Which still won't make using legacy x86 apps any easier to run on a tablet.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
74. Re:Let the bashing begin! by Missing.Matter · 2013-01-23 11:47 · Score: 1
  
  You don't seem to be comprehending me. Paragraphs 2 and 3 in my previous post have nothing to do about GUI. Thus all the benefits of running a touch screen, having a pen, having a .5" thick device I can use while standing in the field are fully realized with an x86 processor. The more powerful processor alone makes running even tablet specific applications better.
  
  Let me put it this way, in two weeks I will be making a tablet purchase. My specific need is as follows: I need to collect data in the field, then analyze it right after. A common task in my profession.
  
  Do I:
  
  A) Buy an an ARM tablet like (Surface RT/iPad/Nexus), rewrite or at least port all the data collection libraries, rewrite the front-end, and also lug around a x86 laptop for subsequent analysis.
  B) Buy a Windows 8 tablet, use exiting libraries, just rewrite the front-end, and analyze data on it, leaving the second laptop at home.
  
  Choice B is the obvious one for me. In hassle-saved alone the Surface is worth the extra money.
  
  As for using legacy x86 apps, given the choice between using a legacy app built for mouse, or no app at all, I'll take the app built for mouse. The stylus isn't a terrible stand in for a mouse, and there is an actual utility gain. Maybe some day you can argue there is no utility because there are alternative touch GUI apps available, but you cannot make that argument today or for the foreseeable future.
75. Re:Let the bashing begin! by beelsebob · 2013-01-24 01:31 · Score: 1
  
  Surface Pro: 64GB/4GB/ivy bridge i5 dual core 1.7Ghz/4 hour battery, $899 + $130 type cover – $1029
  MacBook Air 11": 64GB/4GB/ivy bridge i5 dual core 1.7Ghz/5 hour battery, $999
  And the MacBook Air is hardly the cheapest ultra book out there ;)
76. Re:Let the bashing begin! by scotjam · 2013-01-24 21:40 · Score: 1
  
  90% of tablets not having features isn't trying to imply that they will have 90% market share
  
  Aside from that, it could well end up with 10% share if they get it right. Business users. Microsoft office won't run on any other OS, and the tablet alternatives suck (I know, it's probably MS's fault they suck due to ever-changing standards, but that doesn't change the fact that for a business user, they suck).
Re:And? by Rosyna · 2013-01-22 12:39 · Score: 1

It doesn't come with a hardware keyboard or Office (unlike the Surface RT)
Looking forward to this. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-22 12:40 · Score: 3, Funny

Mostly because work is buying me one.
1. Re:Looking forward to this. by icebike · 2013-01-22 12:56 · Score: 1
  
  Mostly because work is buying me one.
  And quite frankly, that is the market that this tablet is aimed at. Everybody expectant it to be a dud. But I'm not so sure.
  It may well take off where there is a need to run tightly integrated software that ties into corporate environment, but which is not so mainstream that it would attract lots of developers wanting to port it to RT, or it is so customized or so proprietary that there is simply no market for an RT port.
  Of course, lots of C++/C# apps are source level portable to RT via a simple recompile. However not everything in the corporate world is written in those languages, or, the original coder has moved on, and (like most C applications) the application became unmaintainable for anything but emergency patches.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
2. Re:Looking forward to this. by symes · 2013-01-22 13:46 · Score: 1
  
  If the pressure sensitive stylus works well then I will want one of these. I am truly fed up with all the paper wasted just so I can make temporary notes on a piece of paper. It will be interesting to see what integration with MS 360 offers, or whatever it is called.
3. Re:Looking forward to this. by Ambassador+Kosh · 2013-01-22 15:25 · Score: 2
  
  This is the big thing. I would love a tablet that I can take real notes on. Especially one where I can enter mathematical notes.
  Every tablet I have looked at has been very bad to taking notes on. They just don't have the accuracy required. This tablet even runs a full windows of windows which means I could take notes and still use applications like matlab and excel.
  
  --
  Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
4. Re: Looking forward to this. by inputdev · 2013-01-22 15:46 · Score: 1
  
  I have to agree here as well. You can't write on an iPad as it is. I'm curious about the Galaxy Note series - anybody know how good the stylus is? Resolution or input rates? I think frame rates of apps are too low for handwriting, so the hardware will have to help. I'm thinking around mouse rates 1sample/8ms might be enough.
5. Re:Looking forward to this. by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-22 17:32 · Score: 1
  
  Of course, lots of C++/C# apps are source level portable to RT via a simple recompile.
  
  Very few apps are, actually. Remember that most traditional desktop APIs are off-limits to third-party apps on RT (unless you unlock it, which is unsupported and can go away with any update). Yes, Store apps can run C++ and C#. But .NET for C# is a very trimmed down profile compared to full desktop .NET (heck, it doesn't even have System.Data anymore!), and C++ has the entire standard library working, but little else. If your app had any kind of GUI, you'll have to rewrite that almost entirely (unless it was in Silverlight - that can often be ported with relative ease, since the new XAML-based UI framework is basically Silverlight rewritten in native code).
6. Re:Looking forward to this. by bryan1945 · 2013-01-22 23:28 · Score: 1
  
  "Eat up Martha." :D
  
  --
  Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
No time to comment by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-22 12:43 · Score: 1

OMG gotta go get in line for it!!!
Success story! by girlintraining · 2013-01-22 12:43 · Score: 3, Funny

After the stunning success of the original Surface tablet, Microsoft releases its successor, codenamed "Rodents of Unusual Size".

--
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
1. Re:Success story! by CohibaVancouver · 2013-01-22 14:07 · Score: 1
  
  After the stunning success of the original Surface tablet, Microsoft releases its successor
  The Surface Pro will likely be much more successful than the RT. It runs win32, win64 and Modern UI apps natively & seamlessly integrates with Active Directory - Key features for business that the RT can't do...
2. Re:Success story! by MakerDusk · 2013-01-22 19:00 · Score: 1
  
  As far as I know, the pro was just held back to appease the OEMs
Re:And? by BLToday · 2013-01-22 12:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

Except the HP TX2500 series were some of the crappiest laptops I've ever used. We bought 8 of them for the office and within 18 months half of them died. They were hot, the screens were dim, and the stylus was never accurate. Plus, it came with Windows Vista.
Win8 != Corporate Infrastructure by Gothmolly · 2013-01-22 12:52 · Score: 2

At $LARGE_US_BANK we are only STARTING to roll Win7 out to the great unwashed. We still need IE6 for about half the bank's applications.
Saying that Win8 is for corporate America is just masturbation.

--
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
1. Re:Win8 != Corporate Infrastructure by Holi · 2013-01-22 12:58 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Because your bank isn't using it, that means no corp will. Is that your point?
  
  --
  Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
2. Re:Win8 != Corporate Infrastructure by ahabswhale · 2013-01-22 13:29 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  This is why I will never write code at a bank. The dullest environment ever.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
3. Re:Win8 != Corporate Infrastructure by mattack2 · 2013-01-22 13:52 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  So, that means your bank did stupid, browser-specific sites rather than using web standards.
at that price it needs at least 8gb ram by Joe_Dragon · 2013-01-22 12:52 · Score: 2

at that price it needs at least 8gb ram
1. Re:at that price it needs at least 8gb ram by oodaloop · 2013-01-22 23:38 · Score: 1
  
  4gb should be enough for anyone.
  
  No no, don't get up. I can show myself out.
  
  --
  Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
2. Re:at that price it needs at least 8gb ram by Lanforod · 2013-01-23 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  This is x86 right? As in, it can't address more than 4GB RAM anyways... until they release a x64 version of this, no point in going over 4 GB.
3. Re:at that price it needs at least 8gb ram by Lanforod · 2013-01-23 05:14 · Score: 1
  
  nevermind that. saw below it's actually running 64-bit... why does everyone call this x86... blah!
Not at those prices by tuppe666 · 2013-01-22 12:53 · Score: 3, Informative

It doesn't come with a hardware keyboard or Office (unlike the Surface RT)
At the prices quoted it does the Surface Pro does not come with a keyboard at all :) those are sold separately.
1. Re:Not at those prices by cbhacking · 2013-01-22 14:26 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, of course it comes with an on-screen keyboard; all versions of Windows have that even in non-touchscreen devices. Grandparent poster was talking about the Touch Cover and Type Cover, which are available but apparently not included.
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
2. Re:Not at those prices by hresult · 2013-01-22 19:15 · Score: 1
  
  Another DOA.
3. Re:Not at those prices by helix2301 · 2013-01-25 03:24 · Score: 1
  
  I mean the surface is kind cool I saw one at the new Microsoft store my only complain it the tablets pretty heavy. Weightwise its kind heavy to be caring around. Now granted its still lighter then a laptop and a few books but still.
  
  --
  http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
Not the same thing by tuppe666 · 2013-01-22 12:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

Makes the Macbook air just as outrageous
...and it is. Except that Apple is desirable, but the top selling laptop on Amazon right now is the chromebook http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Laptop-Computers/zgbs/electronics/565108/ref=pd_ts_zgc_e_565108_morl?pf_rd_p=1306419382&pf_rd_s=right-5&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=2956501011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1RB1ZW709NBS28NH1KWN selling for a third of the cheapest surface.
1. Re:Not the same thing by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-22 13:56 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  It might be a third less because it uses a shitty ARM CPU, has half the RAM, one eighth the amount of storage space, no touchscreen, no pen input, no memory card slot, lower resolution and weighs more than the Surface Pro.
2. Re: Not the same thing by gig · 2013-01-24 00:56 · Score: 1
  
  The correct comparison is:
  - 1 Surface Pro
  - 2 iPad 4â(TM)s
  - 3 iPad minis
  â¦ all basically $1000.
  And the iPad app platform is years ahead of Windows as far as touch, installation, low price.
For Work. by tuppe666 · 2013-01-22 13:01 · Score: 1

Mostly because work is buying me one.
...I'm sure I would not want to work on this all day.
1. Re:For Work. by icebike · 2013-01-22 13:21 · Score: 1
  
  Mostly because work is buying me one.
  ...I'm sure I would not want to work on this all day.
  News Flash: Business learned long ago that there are different tools for different jobs. This is why you seldom see mail clerks riding among the cubicles on horseback.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
2. Re:For Work. by caywen · 2013-01-22 15:58 · Score: 1
  
  I wouldn't want to stay in a coffee shop or library all day, either. Fortunately, where I *do* work, I have a 2560x1600 monitor and a nice ass keyboard and mouse.
  I wouldn't want to work all day on a MacBook Air, either.
Re:And? by smg5266 · 2013-01-22 13:09 · Score: 1

The screen on mine cracked 3 times. Thankfully I had been coerced into a Staples accidental damage warranty which replaced it the first 2 times, and by the third, they just gave me cash for the original cost of the laptop ($1200!). I went and bought the HP tm2. It's a successor to the tx2500, but has an intel core i5, discrete graphics card (albeit the weakest one made, but still), and a snazzy new (2 years ago) capacitive touch screen. It even had a fairly pain free linux install. Too bad HP's "successor" to the tm2 is an intel atom shitbook.
Coming Soon by vencs · 2013-01-22 13:16 · Score: 1

Surface Home, Surface Enterprise, Surface Ultimate

---
Protest online. Save the planet!
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by gmuslera · 2013-01-22 13:27 · Score: 1

Seem that the BIOS is locked to just MS products, no matter if all the hardware is supported under linux.
What does it say.... by mark-t · 2013-01-22 13:29 · Score: 1

Every time I see the phrase "Microsoft Surface", I always think of the table computing platform now called Pixelsense. It's like I always have to do a mental double-take to realize that they are talking about a tablet.
I'm not normally adverse to keeping up to date with technology and lingo, so I'm unsure why, long after I learned that they had renamed it, I'm still always stumbling over that expression and initially associating it only with MS's table computing platform.
Sorry.... sorta OT... But I'm starting to wonder if maybe I'm just getting too old to keep up with this stuff.

--
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
1. Re:What does it say.... by maxwells_deamon · 2013-01-23 03:23 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft marketing likes a term and seems to feel that they invested in the invention of the word and have to keep using it for other things when the original use goes out of favor.
  Besides the table, they also used the term for touch screen applications on Windows 7 and Vista.
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by nielsm · 2013-01-22 13:33 · Score: 1

Actually it's Windows 6.2 aka. "Vista with even more tweaks", but it's not like version numbers really matter much.
Compare to ... by Rougement · 2013-01-22 13:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

An iPad at $400 cheaper and a MacBook Air for only $100 more. I'm not sure, at this price point, what MS are trying to accomplish. It just reeks of a hurried "oh hell, we must release something to counter Apple' Well, here's your something.
1. Re:Compare to ... by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2013-01-22 13:41 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  MB air is $100 more and doesn't even have a pen or touch?
  I'd rather have the Surface Pro.
2. Re:Compare to ... by Cinder6 · 2013-01-22 13:47 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Apple user here.
  Here's what the Surface Pro has over an iPad: Run desktop apps; ability to modify the OS as you see fit
  Here's what the Surface Pro has over a Macbook Air: Touchscreen
  Different tools for different people and different uses. I don't personally want a Surface (Pro or RT), and it certainly has some (pretty big) disadvantages, but that doesn't mean I can't understand what Microsoft is trying to accomplish. I think there's merit to their "Windows anywhere" goal, though it still needs some polishing.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
3. Re:Compare to ... by Rougement · 2013-01-22 13:49 · Score: 1
  
  I suspect it's only a matter of time before Apple tie iOS and OSX together and it's laptops get touch screens. Retina touch screens at that. Another issue I have with these is that I have no faith that they won't be tomorrow's Zunes. At least an Air is going to stick around and be supported for a while.
4. Re:Compare to ... by Missing.Matter · 2013-01-22 14:19 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  How clueless can you be? Macbook air has no ethernet port, and surface pro does have a USB 3.0 port. As it runs Windows 8 Pro it supports more hardware than the Macbook air including any optical drive, barcode reader, or digital camera you want to plug into it.
5. Re:Compare to ... by CohibaVancouver · 2013-01-22 14:34 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  An iPad at $400 cheaper
  An iPad doesn't run corporate win32 and win64 apps natively. An iPad doesn't integrate with Active Directory for seamless access to network resources. An iPad only has a finger, not a stylus interface. iPad has no USB port.
  
  and a MacBook Air for only $100 more
  
  The Macbook Air has no touch interface and doesn't convert to a tablet / slate for easy use on an airplane in economy with the seat in front of you in full recline.
6. Re:Compare to ... by cbhacking · 2013-01-22 14:38 · Score: 1
  
  It actually goes a bit further than that, even: the inclusion of the USB port and the support for Client Hyper-V (admittedly, it's a bit short on RAM, but it should be enough to, say, virtualize a Linux system) makes this a much more versatile device. I'd say it's cheaper than the MBA, but that goes away when you add the Touch or Type cover for keyboard and trackpad.
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
7. Re:Compare to ... by lexman098 · 2013-01-22 14:43 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget this for 300 dollars less: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834131384
8. Re:Compare to ... by exomondo · 2013-01-22 15:17 · Score: 2
  
  An iPad at $400 cheaper and a MacBook Air for only $100 more.
  So then i have to carry 2 devices and it cost me $600 more?
9. Re:Compare to ... by Luckyo · 2013-01-22 15:21 · Score: 1
  
  And my E-450 laptop cost me 350 euros. But just like all the products you listed, they're aimed at different market segments.
10. Re:Compare to ... by exomondo · 2013-01-22 15:28 · Score: 1
  
  I suspect it's only a matter of time before Apple tie iOS and OSX together and it's laptops get touch screens.
  Because Microsoft has done that and are clearly raking it in as a result, so Apple should copy them.
11. Re:Compare to ... by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2013-01-22 15:28 · Score: 2
  
  I see what your saying but I don't think the Zune is a good comparison. MS entered the market with Zune way too late, just as it was ending in fact because of the growth of smartphones. Tablets are going to be around for a long time. So even though they are late (to this generation, let's not forget tablet pcs) there is plenty of time for them to catch up with android. Apple isn't the main worry. They'll just keep doing their own thing no matter what. MS *can't* let android take over the majority of their oem market. If they fail (and they may) it will be for different reasons than why Zune failed.
12. Re:Compare to ... by caywen · 2013-01-22 16:03 · Score: 1
  
  Unlike the iPad, it also supports multiple users.
  Like the iPad, it supports iTunes - except that it actually, like, runs it.
13. Re:Compare to ... by ChunderDownunder · 2013-01-22 17:55 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8 has been out for less than 3 months. A bit early to calling it a failure?
  Intel have mandated touchscreens for their lastest Ultrabook spec. So all premium wintel laptops (>$999) will have touchscreens by Christmas.
  This will drive down the cost where Apple customers will be asking why their macbook is the only $1000 laptop on the market without touch input. At which point Apple will announce a compatibility layer to run all one's favourite iPad apps inside OS X at WWDC 2014, along with the first macbook air with a detachable keyboard. At which point developers will marvel at the lower cost of entry - in being able to run Xcode on the same device you're targetting.
14. Re:Compare to ... by Threni · 2013-01-22 21:35 · Score: 1
  
  > I think there's merit to their "Windows anywhere" goal, though it still needs some
  > polishing.
  "Something called Windows, everywhere", you mean? Windows 7 on this phone, Windows 8 on that phone, Windows 8 on that laptop, Windows RT over there on that thing...
15. Re:Compare to ... by oldlurker · 2013-01-23 02:05 · Score: 1
  
  Those are pretty poor examples. Almost any optical drive, barcode scanner or digital camera that will work without drivers on windows would do the same on OSX.
  What? That was some twist to the conversation, look at this again:
  
  Surface Pro at $100 less has no ethernet port
  Neither do Macbook Air
  
  or usb port
  Yes it does.
  
  or real keyboard?
  Reviewers actually rate it as quite good, I haven't tried, have you? And you can of course add any external keyboard you want
  
  Can't plug in an optical drive or barcode reader or digital camera?
  Yes you can, all of that. As external (but that would also be the case with the Macbook Air
  
  What is it, some kind of expensive toy?
  Less so than Macbook Air it seems.
16. Re:Compare to ... by exomondo · 2013-01-23 09:44 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8 has been out for less than 3 months. A bit early to calling it a failure?
  Did I do that? I don't think I did.
  
  At which point Apple will announce a compatibility layer to run all one's favourite iPad apps inside OS X at WWDC 2014, along with the first macbook air with a detachable keyboard. At which point developers will marvel at the lower cost of entry - in being able to run Xcode on the same device you're targetting.
  That really doesn't sound like an Apple thing to do, although given that Jobs has passed and they have resurrected a couple of things he publicly panned (larger screen because 3.5" is the perfect screen size, 7" tablets are pointless) perhaps you're right.
17. Re:Compare to ... by exomondo · 2013-01-23 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  No, this strategy is based on the newer products (windows 8, windows phone 8 and windows RT) not the older 7 products, the core is the same Windows kernel and they all have the WinRT application platform, which makes sense.
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by Gertlex · 2013-01-22 13:35 · Score: 2

"why would you want to run Win 7 or XP on this thing?"
So you don't have to deal with the shitty Metro aesthetic. Completely worth installing Windows 7 just to get rid of it.
It's a tablet... so install Classic Shell instead and live in the Desktop, while preserving touch and pen-stuff.
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2013-01-22 13:43 · Score: 1

MS can't win. "Why is win8 so focused on touch!?!" and then "Why can't your touch tablet run XP!?!"
Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-22 13:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

The TX2500 uses a Turion CPU...that's like Pentium-M level performance.
And Oblivion? Really? That game is almost a decade old. The fact that you only get a horrid 18fps in it shows how crappy that computer is.
I'm still a bit interested by Overzeetop · 2013-01-22 13:58 · Score: 2

Panasonic's 20" tablet has certain major advantages for me, as I do architectural-like work. Still, pressure sensitive pen input (if high-dpi accurate) and a 2lb mark is nice. 4 hours life sucks, but it's not as bad as the 2 hours proposed for the panasonic.
The biggest draw for this is a machine that could replace both my iPad and my notebook computer (currently an 11.6" Acer Timeline). The ability to have a real OS and the ability to run real applications (Lightroom, AutoCAD, Bluebeam, Analysis software) is a major plus.
The shortcomings, beyond the middling battery life, include the limitation that you can only get 128GB. While that may seem like enough for a tablet, this is a working machine and really needs have an option to go to 256, if not 512, for serious road warrior data sets (or photogs on the go). And *micro* SD? Slow AND limited capacity. Hard to believe on a tablet this big that SD was a deal breaker in the real estate department. The lack of included keyboard is just money. I have Apple products, so overly expensive SSD and accessories are already commonplace.

--
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
1. Re:I'm still a bit interested by Luckyo · 2013-01-22 15:23 · Score: 1
  
  You may consider just getting an USB thumb drive for external stuff. Not the most elegant solution, but functional nontheless.
2. Re:I'm still a bit interested by nojayuk · 2013-01-22 22:55 · Score: 1
  
  The Pro's cardslot takes microSDXC cards. There are 64GB cards on the market for less than fifty bucks, 128GB are off-the-shelf but cost more and higher-capacity cards are on the way.
3. Re:I'm still a bit interested by Overzeetop · 2013-01-23 14:02 · Score: 1
  
  Fair enough...the last time I looked they were dog slow, but there are better options now. It'd still be nicer to have an SD slot - you can always adapt down to micro, but you have to carry a reader for a full sd.
  
  --
  Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Functionally the same by tuppe666 · 2013-01-22 14:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

It might be a third less because it uses a shitty ARM CPU, has half the RAM, one eighth the amount of storage space, no touchscreen, no pen input, no memory card slot, lower resolution and weighs more than the Surface Pro.
No its a third...as in you can but three of them for the same price as Surface. Pro. It comes with 100GB of cloud storage...and has a memory card slot. runs a lightweight OS [and can run Ubuntu too :). Other than touch-screen something I want...if I can get android compatibility, but that has been announced on the next chrome book there is embarrassingly little in it.
...but your right it is not exactly the specifications, but functionally very similar, and has advantages cost being the most glaring.
Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-22 14:12 · Score: 1

Surface Pro has an Ivy Bridge Core i5 with an integrated Intel HD 4000 GPU. It's not very powerful, but it's much more powerful than the ATI HD 3200 in the TX2500.
Intel HD 4000 benchmark
ATI Radeon HD 3200 benchmark
According to Notebookcheck.net, the Intel HD 4000 pull 30+ fps in Mass Effect 3 at 1366x768, maximum detail with AA and 4X anisotropic filtering. They also show that it can get around 40 fps in Skyrim in low detail.
Any reason to mention ponies. by tuppe666 · 2013-01-22 14:20 · Score: 1

News Flash: Business learned long ago that there are different tools for different jobs.
That is not even remotely true, it generally buys thousands of identical large dull brand boxies, of the lowest specifications, and may or may not roll out a new OS or browser every 10 years...and to be perfectly honest would prefer working on one of those to that. I think business is the wrong market for this product.
1. Re:Any reason to mention ponies. by dreamchaser · 2013-01-22 14:30 · Score: 1
  
  You obviously have very little business experience. I've worked in several large enterprise environments and what you're stating is blatantly false in my experience. Typically there will be a standard desktop, a tower system, a couple of laptop models, and OS updates happen when ready, meaning once they've been certified to run said organization's software.
  I already have clients rolling out Windows 8. I would not be surprised to see the Surface Pro sell reasonably well in the enterprise.
2. Re:Any reason to mention ponies. by raind · 2013-01-22 15:59 · Score: 1
  
  Last large place I was in all the equipment was not bought but leased, desktops, laptops, printers .....even telecomm;switches, routers.
  
  --
  Get up!
Re:And? by BLToday · 2013-01-22 14:22 · Score: 2

Calibration doesn't help much. The screen is very inaccurate on as you approach the edge of the screen. I'm probably off about 2 mm within 1 inch of the edge.
Re:And? by Gadget_Guy · 2013-01-22 14:30 · Score: 1

The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion was a 2 year old game when the tx2500 was released.
Re:Works on my corporate network? by cbhacking · 2013-01-22 14:33 · Score: 1

In a word: yes.
Whole disk encryption: BitLocker. It's supported. Connecting to the domain or Exchange server will automatically enable it if the policies mandating such encryption are in place.
A login: No fucking shit, it's Win8, of course it has logins and supports password complexity requirements. You're logging in with your domain credentials, after all...
Anti-malware: Built into Win8, or you can use third-party if you prefer.
Security policies: Again, it's Win8 (Pro, though even RT supports security policies). Did you crack your head on something on your way to write this post? Go see a doctor; you're delusional if you think this won't be supported.

--
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-22 14:44 · Score: 1

Install 7 then, it runs cooler.
Can you still get 7 legally?
This could kill the Playbook by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-22 14:46 · Score: 1

Seriously.
64 or 32 bit? by jfdavis668 · 2013-01-22 14:48 · Score: 1

Anyone know if it runs 32 bit or 64 bit Windows?
1. Re:64 or 32 bit? by bmorency · 2013-01-22 15:57 · Score: 1
  
  It is running 64-bit windows. http://betanews.com/2013/01/16/microsoft-surface-pro-arriving-very-soon-time-to-get-excited/
2. Re:64 or 32 bit? by ChunderDownunder · 2013-01-22 18:20 · Score: 1
  
  MS would be keen to become totally 64bit clean for Windows 9. Intel (aside from a few Atoms) and AMD migrated to x86-64 half a decade ago. Let IA-32 die already - it's nearly 10 years since the Athlon 64 came out...
  [even if the machine I'm typing on is a P4 running ubuntu 12.10, I don't expect I'll be upgrading it to Windows 9!]
  I'd be surprised if MS and ARM aren't working on AArch64, for a subsequent generation Surface RT, as we speak.
Re:Works on my corporate network? by Luckyo · 2013-01-22 15:20 · Score: 1

Workplaces generally provide working tools.
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by Kaenneth · 2013-01-22 15:33 · Score: 1

Windows 8 is more 6.2 than 7.1.
Re:Works on my corporate network? by black3d · 2013-01-22 15:39 · Score: 2

You do realise it's a fully-fledged computer under the hood, don't you? It's not running a "tablet OS" like Android or iOS. It's running normal Win8 on a normal Intel i5. It's simply a laptop in tablet form. You can install whatever anti-malware, etc, you like. The one caveat is that you can't install any OS you like - the BIOS will make sure of that.

--
"The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
Re:And? by sayfawa · 2013-01-22 16:17 · Score: 1

My tx2500 may be hot and loud as hell with a crappy OS. And yes, with a dim screen and inaccurate stylus. But it's still running, dammit!

Seriously though, there are better examples of good convertible tablets the OP could have come up with. Toshiba, Lenovo, Fujitsu all have had good touchscreens for years.

And if it's a slate form-factor that is supposed to be so special about the Surface, well, they're late. Samsung has had a decent slate since before win8. That rhymed.

--
Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-22 17:34 · Score: 1

You're confusing ARM-based Surface with x86-based Surface Pro. All WinRT ARM devices are locked with no ability to unlock. All Win8 x86 devices can be unlocked from UEFI.
Re:Works on my corporate network? by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-01-22 17:35 · Score: 1

You're wrong. No one is going to buy a 1,000 device out of their own pockets and then allow corporate security policies and encryption to be put on it.
I do just that thing (except my device is a Thinkpad laptop that cost close to $1500 back when I bought it). The trick is, you create two partitions - one for your own use, with your OS that's not joined to any domain, and another one that runs the corporate image, and is joined to the domain with all restrictions applicable. It's that second partition that is encrypted, and that will be remotely wiped if need be, but it does not affect my personal data.
Re:And? by Ocker3 · 2013-01-22 17:43 · Score: 1

And it's a swivel-screen laptop rather than a flat tablet with a removable keyboard.

If you want a Surface competitor, look at the HP Envy X2 http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/envy-x2/overview.html
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2013-01-22 18:10 · Score: 1

Windows 7 was basically Windows Vista SP2 with a new taskbar.
Right. The fact that Windows 7 (unlike its predecessor) would actually stay up long enough to get something done with it was of relatively little consequence.

--
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Re: And? by MikShapi · 2013-01-22 18:50 · Score: 1, Insightful

Runs fine (uber-res, all bells and whistles on) on myacbook air.
Then again, 2.5 lanes of PCIe 2.0 coming out of its side might have something to do with that.
Never mind the absence of a high-end surdace model (i7/8GB), The surface pro has just one PCIe worth of grown up IO coming out the side. Nice... But sub-standard.
Microsoft can do better in a showcase reference model the OEMs are expexted to copy.

--
-
Re:Works on my corporate network? by XcepticZP · 2013-01-22 19:35 · Score: 2

UEFI Secure Boot is only applicable for Surface RT. The Surface Pro has no such limitations and you can install ANY OS you please.

You're welcome.
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by MakerDusk · 2013-01-22 19:51 · Score: 1

Never trust an OEM, or listen to the sales person. Most laptops did not meet the specs to run vista at launch. You should have checked for yourself. Every christmas I go around tech stores with a bag of chips and a slushie for the entertainment. If you listened to one of those people when you bought your computer... well... all of /. looks down on you.
Re:And? by ozmanjusri · 2013-01-22 20:33 · Score: 1

I'll stick to my Compaq Concerto thanks.

--
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Re:And? by Barryke · 2013-01-22 22:38 · Score: 1

If you want a Surface competitor, look at the HP Envy X2 http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/envy-x2/overview.html

Not even close. The HP Envy specs:
- CPU is Atom (Surface Pro is 3th generation i5)
- Resolution only 1366x768 (Surface Pro is 1920x1080)
- SSD only upto 64GB (Surface Pro is upto 128GB)
I am looking for a Surface Pro clone, more specifically a 16"+ laptop with 2560x1440 resolution, with touch and (a proper, precise, pressure sensitive) pen, and 250GB+ SSD, and i5 or better.
If anyone knows of anything that has at least the resolution and pen, i'm grateful.

--
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Re:And? by ByOhTek · 2013-01-23 00:38 · Score: 2

HP...
Never again. Their business end stuff may be good, but their consumer grade stuff is cheap low grade crashy garbage.

--
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Re:And? by RaceProUK · 2013-01-23 01:02 · Score: 1

Install 7 then, it runs cooler.
Can you still get 7 legally?
Even with this, I'm still not sure...

--
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
Re: And? by samwichse · 2013-01-23 01:05 · Score: 1

Miak? I bet you didn't even think I could find it this time of year.
Digitiser comparisons by nojayuk · 2013-01-23 01:55 · Score: 1

The Galaxy Note stylus has a tip diameter of 6.5mm giving an effective resolution of 4dpi with one level of pressure sensitivity (on/off). The Surface Pro's stylus (a Wacom knockoff design) has a resolution of 600dpi with 512 pressure levels plus, if I'm reading the specs right, pen angle and tilt sensitivity included.
Wacom's screen/digitiser system of a similar size, the 12-inch Cintiq 12WX costs about the same as a Surface Pro but it's not tablet-portable, it doesn't have a complete PC underneath it and the Cintiq's screen is only 1280 x 800, not full HD like the Surface Pro.
1. Re:Digitiser comparisons by ahabswhale · 2013-01-23 06:07 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, you may have actually found a useful niche for the Surface Pro. Thanks for the info.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
Re:And? by macromorgan · 2013-01-23 02:25 · Score: 1

HP...
Never again. Their business end stuff may be good, but their consumer grade stuff is cheap low grade crashy garbage.
...with digitally signed firmware that prevents you from swapping out hardware to change the crashy garbage nature of it all. Fuck HP.
Re: And? by macromorgan · 2013-01-23 02:27 · Score: 1

Miak? I bet you didn't even think I could find it this time of year.
Only a mother could love that comment.
One thing? Like a Claw hammer? by nuggz · 2013-01-23 02:35 · Score: 1

A claw hammer is very good at being a nail installation device and a pry bar.
Those are two different tasks.
1. Re:One thing? Like a Claw hammer? by ahabswhale · 2013-01-23 06:05 · Score: 2
  
  The pry bar on a hammer is really only good for removing nails and minor demo work. You need a true pry/crow bar to get real work done. I say this as someone who has spent a lot of time doing demo work.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
Re:And? by ByOhTek · 2013-01-23 03:03 · Score: 1

Fuck HP.
No thanks, it's chafe my willy, and probably give me a DTD (digitally transmitted disease).

--
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
I predict. by Holi · 2013-01-23 06:32 · Score: 2

That around 90% of the comments here will be from MS haters coming to bash something they have yet to see. For reasons they can only poorly describe.

--
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Re:2 pounds? A whole 0.9Kg? by Holi · 2013-01-23 06:34 · Score: 2

Actually, every review I have read has said it stays quite cool. But what do I know, I just went around and did some research instead of spouting off complete nonsense.

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Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Re:And? by Holi · 2013-01-23 06:38 · Score: 1

Mine is running fine. But yeah the 1st gen XBox 360s had a design flaw. But MS resolved it where as HP just discontinued it.

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Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Re:And? by Fritzed · 2013-01-23 08:42 · Score: 2

Not even close. The HP Envy specs:
- CPU is Atom (Surface Pro is 3th generation i5)
- Resolution only 1366x768 (Surface Pro is 1920x1080)
- SSD only upto 64GB (Surface Pro is upto 128GB)
I am looking for a Surface Pro clone, more specifically a 16"+ laptop with 2560x1440 resolution, with touch and (a proper, precise, pressure sensitive) pen, and 250GB+ SSD, and i5 or better. If anyone knows of anything that has at least the resolution and pen, i'm grateful.

- CPU is Atom (Surface Pro is 3th generation i5)

3th
I'm not going to correct you.
I just want Thirth to be a word.

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Spooooon!!!!!
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2013-01-23 08:50 · Score: 1

You presume a lot, and you presume mostly wrongly.
If you were born after 1977, then I've been using computers longer than you've been alive.
In any case, I've seen Vista in (in)action on enough machines with plenty of horsepower to recognise it as completely horrid, even for post-2K Windows.
And just so you know, I shop for specs. Computer store salespeople hate me with a passion.
And I do not care what version of Windows comes with *my* computer, because Windows gets wiped and replaced with an operating system about 10 minutes after I get the machine home.

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Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
We're going to buy a bunch of these by Baldrake · 2013-01-23 14:02 · Score: 1

We've been looking to convert one of our in-house applications to a touch UI. This allows us to continue using Visual Studio and C#. We don't care about desktop or Metro. Our app will run full-screen, so users won't see anything that's under the hood.
Sure, we could rewrite the whole damn thing for iOS or Android, but why?
Re:Can it run linux? windows 7? Windows XP? by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2013-01-23 20:19 · Score: 1

The butthurt is really strong in you. Perhaps some counselling would help.

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Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Windows a weak brand by tuppe666 · 2013-01-24 01:32 · Score: 1

The correct comparison is:
- 1 Surface Pro
...no the correct comparison is *never* an Apple product.
Quickoffice/Google Docs by jaygatsby27 · 2013-01-24 01:56 · Score: 1

The Ipad just got a lot more business friendly with the work of Google Docs and their acquisition of Quickoffice. i have to say, I would have considered buying a Windows tablet before, but with the Quickoffice app, I have most of what I need on the Ipad. Thanks to Google.