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Monsanto Takes Home $23m From Small Farmers According To Report

An anonymous reader writes "Seed giant Monsanto has won more than $23 million from hundreds of small farmers accused of replanting the company's genetically engineered seeds. Now, another case is looming – and it could set a landmark precedent for the future of seed ownership. From the article: 'According to the report, Monsanto has alleged seed patent infringement in 144 lawsuits against 410 farmers and 56 small farm businesses in at least 27 U.S. states as of January of 2013. Monsanto, DuPont and Syngenta together hold 53 percent of the global commercial seed market, which the report says has led to price increases for seeds -- between 1995 and 2011, the average cost of planting one acre of soybeans rose 325 percent and corn seed prices went up 259 percent.'"

419 comments

  1. Monsanto takes .. by OzPeter · · Score: 4, Informative

    And that's about all you have to say.

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    1. Re:Monsanto takes .. by jythie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah.. when they can charge people who never bought their product because it naturally spread...

    2. Re:Monsanto takes .. by theVarangian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Monsanto takes .. And that's about all you have to say.

      That's harsh, I'm sure they give generously to the politicians who enable their business practices.

    3. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah.. when they can charge people who never bought their product because it naturally spread...

      I am no fan of Monsanto, but this is a very one-sided statement. These farmers knew full well that they were planting GMO seed, they knew that Monsanto had a patent on it, and they took full advantage of the GMO by spraying their crops with glyphosate. To portray these farmers as poor victims of pollen spread by the wind is baloney.

    4. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being able to patent seeds is more bullshit than being able to patent software.

    5. Re:Monsanto takes .. by jythie · · Score: 5, Informative

      That is, in this case, a good point. Here farmers were knowingly replanting seed they had purchased.

      However, while I do not know if it has come up in US courts, there have been instances of Monsanto claiming that farmers who simply have their seeds in their field, even through natural spreading, owe them a fee. If nothing else, they can supply samples as evidence of theft simply because in most cases there is way to differentiate between something like theft or replanting from natural spreading, they only have to show the farmer was benefiting from their GMO.

      So I will admit, I tangented from this particular case.

    6. Re:Monsanto takes .. by zennyboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not. If it grew on my land, it's mine... Case closed

    7. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 0, Troll

      That is, in this case, a good point. Here farmers were knowingly replanting seed they had purchased.

      When farmers purchase Monsanto seeds, they sign a contract and agree, in writing, not to save seed.

      there have been instances of Monsanto claiming that farmers who simply have their seeds in their field, even through natural spreading, owe them a fee.

      Citation please. There is plenty of mythology about Monsanto doing this, but what really happened is that some farmers intentionally saved seeds grown adjacent to GMO fields, saved and planted the seeds, sprayed them with glyphosate to kill the beans without the GMO gene, saved the resulting seeds again, planted the resulting "pure" GMO strain the following year, and treated their crops with glyphosate thus taking full advantage of Monsanto's patent. To portray these farmers as innocent victims is nonsense.

    8. Re:Monsanto takes .. by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      > there have been instances of Monsanto claiming that farmers who simply have their seeds in their field, even through natural spreading, owe them a fee

      Really? Every case like this I've dug into involved some action by the farmer to collect and select seed.

      So I'd be interested if you have a concrete example.

    9. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

      When farmers purchase Monsanto seeds, they sign a contract and agree, in writing, not to save seed.

      No, when farmers purchase Monsanto seeds from MONSANTO they sign a contract like that. This case has nothing to do with that scenario.

      This guy bought seed from the local grain elevator - seed that was sold on the open market without Monsanto's involvement and no advertising that the seed was monsanto tainted seed. He had no contract with Monsanto for those seeds or any of their precursors.

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      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    10. Re:Monsanto takes .. by FrankSchwab · · Score: 4, Informative

      there have been instances of Monsanto claiming that farmers who simply have their seeds in their field, even through natural spreading, owe them a fee.

      Citation

      Sure. Let me google that for you:
      http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/25/percy-schmeiser-farmer-who-beat-monsanto.aspx

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      And the worms ate into his brain.
    11. Re:Monsanto takes .. by happylight · · Score: 2

      You mean if I made something with my own materials in my own house I can't violate any patents?

      I think you just found a loophole around every single patent there is out there.

    12. Re:Monsanto takes .. by xiando · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm not. If it grew on my land, it's mine... Case closed

      Sadly, no, not in the USA. Search and you'll find plenty of cases where farmers planted their own seeds and got their fields infected with GMO from the farm next to it or something like that. These are farmers who did not kill everything but GMO in their fields with Roundup.

      If I was growing natural seeds and my land got infected by Monsanto then I would assume that Monsanto owed me for damages. But not in the USA

    13. Re:Monsanto takes .. by zennyboy · · Score: 2

      If "something growing alone by itself" is the same as you building it in your house :-)

    14. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Blue+Stone · · Score: 2

      Monstanto is to Farming as Scientology is to Religion.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    15. Re:Monsanto takes .. by xiando · · Score: 1, Redundant

      So I'd be interested if you have a concrete example.

      Since you can't use a search engine or look in other posts in this thread.. here is a cut and paste for you:

      http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/25/percy-schmeiser-farmer-who-beat-monsanto.aspx

      It's been years and years since I first saw a documentary about the criminal Monsanto which numerous examples, interviews, etc. This isn't news and I find it amazing that you are actually trying to dispute Monsantos criminal activity.

    16. Re:Monsanto takes .. by paul.hatchman · · Score: 5, Informative
      Really?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Schmeiser says that:

      "He testified that he then harvested that crop, saved it separately from his other harvest, and intentionally planted it in 1998"

      So perhaps you could use your superior search engine skills to find an actual, real example of a farmer being sued by Monsanto that did not intentionally harvest and plant patented seeds?

    17. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If "something growing alone by itself" is the same as you building it in your house :-)

      But GMO crops didn't just "grow alone" by themselves. The infringing farmers took concerted action, over several years, to isolate and propagate the seeds, and then benefited from the patented gene by spraying their fields with glyphosate. That is something that someone who believed they had non-GMO seeds would not do, because it would kill their crop. .

    18. Re:Monsanto takes .. by DeathByLlama · · Score: 0, Troll

      Perhaps Monsanto isn't as bad as they're portrayed here...

      That said, I believe the farmer who sold his seeds to the grain elevator was in the wrong, not the farmer (who didn't even know better) who purchased the seeds. This is similar to the file sharer being in the wrong, as opposed to the pirate.

      When farmers use Monsanto seeds, they have to realize that they can't redistribute those seeds (or seeds made from those seeds). If this were legal, then Monsanto could be cut out of the picture after the first sale. Farmers could just go to "special" grain elevators who were known to have Monsanto seed progeny and pick up some good cheap stuff. In this case, Monsanto would never be able to recoup the time and billions of dollars spent developing those seeds. It's important to therefore realize that farmers who use Monsanto seeds forfeit their right to distribute seeds to grain elevators; this is their choice.

      Farmers choose to use Monsanto seeds. If they still want to distribute seeds to grain elevators, then they can't use Monsanto's products. If it's so crucial that they use Monsanto products, then all hail Monsanto for saving the grain market -- it would have failed (or at least done more poorly) otherwise. And if Monsanto is price gouging, then competitors should have no problem creating alternative products and undercutting them... but they can't because of the aforementioned time and billions spent (which Monsanto needs to recoup or they can't make these "crucial" products).

      Although it's easy to paint a David and Goliath portrait here and shed tears for the poor farmers getting sued by a big corporation, right and wrong aren't so black and white here. There's a reason why the laws (made by the people) are defending Monsanto's products here. It's simply not an easy case.

    19. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Search and you'll find plenty of cases where farmers planted their own seeds and got their fields infected with GMO ...

      Actually, if you search, you will find precisely zero cases where this happened. If you want to prove me wrong, then cite one case where a farmer was sued for unintentional infringement.

    20. Re:Monsanto takes .. by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am no fan of Monsanto, but this is a very one-sided statement. These farmers knew full well that they were planting GMO seed, they knew that Monsanto had a patent on it, and they took full advantage of the GMO by

      Wait, you didn't read the article did you...

      However, farmers are able to buy excess soybeans from local grain elevators, many of which are likely to be Roundup Ready seeds. One of Bowman's trips to such a grain elevator put him in Monsanto’s sights. ...

      Monsanto has claimed it maintains patent rights on its genetically modified seeds, even if sold by a third party such as a grain elevator. The company also said this protection extends for generations down, which means it owns seeds that are 'descendants' of original Monsanto seeds.

      So one bag of Monsanto derived grain in every grain elevator means (to your way of thinking) that Monsanto hence forth owns all see stock in the entire country? Or the entire planet? Forever?

      Genetic modification isn't the only way to make new crops. Cross breeding (the original form of genetic modification) also works. Does this mean the University of Minnesota owns every Honey Crisp apple seed in the world?

      I suspect you strongly believe in the first sale doctrine when it comes to books, records, and video games, but some how this is different?
      Have you really thought this through?

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    21. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Dunbal · · Score: 2, Informative

      You say glyphosate in bold italics, as if "Round Up" was only ever used on Monsanto crops. Round Up is possibly the most popular herbicide on the market and every farmer uses it.

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    22. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Dunbal · · Score: 3

      Build a house on my land and see what happens to it.

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      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    23. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Receipt of stolen goods." If a gallery sells you a painting and the police later demonstrate that the painting was stolen, you lose the painting. If a store gives you a $20 in change and you take it to the bank and it is a counterfeit bill, you lose the bill.

    24. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ranpel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually I believe that you're wrong. Monsanto authorizes their seed progeny to the elevators. The farmer that sold his seed to the grain elevator was allowed to do so contractually. Another farmer subsequently purchased seed from the grain elevator, with the Monsanto seed mixed in, and planted it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/feb/09/soybean-farmer-monsanto-supreme-court

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      \r
    25. Re:Monsanto takes .. by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      In the US, or at least in certain parts of the US (I don't know how widespread this is), receiving stolen goods without knowing they were stolen does not guarantee the item will be taken away from you if found. If you knew or should reasonably be expected to know the item is stolen, that is another story (buying a $2000 stereo for $200 for instance).

    26. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is irrelevant to the point. The issue is that the GMO plant was initially grown through no attempt of his own. Once he realized his field was contaminated by it, he harvested them. It grew from the ground up on his land with no original intervention. Using what grew on his field initially through no intervention on his part should be his right.

    27. Re:Monsanto takes .. by flimflammer · · Score: 3, Informative

      Of course what he likely means is spraying an otherwise lethal dose of glyphosate on the crops, as that is how you actually use Roundup on Monsanto GMO crops.

    28. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Used a lot, but not on anything you want to have continue growing. That's the important bit here. They are spraying glyphosate on crops they want to stay alive, while it kills the weeds around them.

      I use it a lot NEAR my crops, but go to great care not to spray it on them.

    29. Re:Monsanto takes .. by asamad · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Monsanto has sued neighbour farmers who never intentionally sowed their crop, sowed by accident .. ie the wind blew over the seeds. Thats the sucky bit... if anything the farmer should sue monsanto for letting its seeds land in their fields

    30. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation please. There is plenty of mythology about Monsanto doing this, but what really happened is that some farmers intentionally saved seeds grown adjacent to GMO fields, saved and planted the seeds, sprayed them with glyphosate to kill the beans without the GMO gene, saved the resulting seeds again, planted the resulting "pure" GMO strain the following year, and treated their crops with glyphosate thus taking full advantage of Monsanto's patent. To portray these farmers as innocent victims is nonsense.

      So what if the farmers did that? Monsanto needs to genetically engineer seeds so their plants UNDER NO CIRCUMTANCES spread to other fields. Screw Monsanto! If they pollute another farmer's crops with their pollen they should be forced to grant "patent" rights for as long as the strain survives. Or pay damages to restore the fields back to its previous state of fertility.

    31. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      The farmers knew it was Monsanto "tainted" because they sprayed the crop with glyphosate. That makes no sense whatsoever unless they knew it was GMO.

      I didn't say they were ignorant. I said they did not sign a contract with monsanto nor did the grain elevator they purchased them from advertise them as monsanto seeds. In other words there was no conspiracy.

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      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    32. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Many of the cases are about something only one step removed from this. The farmer planted seeds he bought from surplus at his local grain elevator. Since many of his neighbors had planted Roundup Ready seeds that's what he ended up growing, unintentionally and unknowingly.

    33. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah.. when they can charge people who never bought their product because it naturally spread...

      I am no fan of Monsanto, but this is a very one-sided statement. These farmers knew full well that they were planting GMO seed, they knew that Monsanto had a patent on it, and they took full advantage of the GMO by spraying their crops with glyphosate. To portray these farmers as poor victims of pollen spread by the wind is baloney.

      And the farmer that didn't sell out to Monsanto and has found their non-GMO crops infected with Monsanto patented seed? Who exactly is the poor victim of pollen spread in that scenario? Don't try and tell me it's fucking Monsanto.

      The only people who know "full well" what they are doing are the ones getting rich. Say what you want about the farmers, we know who the real evil is here, especially when farmers are pushed by the fucking seed mafia.

      And yeah, no shit this is a one-sided argument. The one Monsanto bought and patented. And you better not get caught arguing it any other way.

    34. Re:Monsanto takes .. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Liar, they are not stolen they are purchases. They only person that infringes patent is the seller of the seed. Monsanto is straight up lying in court and corrupted judges are supporting the lie. Only people who sell the seed with the patented gene are infringing patents. Farmers who signed Monsanto contracts are in breach of the contract. Farmers who neither sell those seeds for the specific patented feature not have a Monsanto contract have done nothing but make use of what grew in their paddocks, end of story. As for your lie, if you new or should reasonably be aware that someone illegally drove a combine harvester around somebody else's land and sold you the seeds cheap, well that is receiving stolen goods you liar. Not you growing the product on your own land, watering and fertilizing it at your own expense and then paying the cost of harvesting it.

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      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    35. Re:Monsanto takes .. by thaylin · · Score: 1

      Maybe they found out later.... It does not mean they knew when they bought it.

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      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    36. Re:Monsanto takes .. by thaylin · · Score: 1

      It is relevant, He asked for an example and received one.

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      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    37. Re:Monsanto takes .. by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      I was only speaking in reference to the analogy they used, not Monsanto.

    38. Re:Monsanto takes .. by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      There was at least one case of a farmer who bought his seed from a grain elevator and simply planted it. He was not replanting crop he had bought from Monsanto. He was buying whatever seed happened to be in that elevator and planting it, exactly like farmers have done for thousands of years.

    39. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You will however find plenty of cases where they settle out of court.

      It's easier then risking a loss.

    40. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 0

      Monsanto has sued neighbour farmers who never intentionally sowed their crop, sowed by accident

      Can you please cite a single instance of this actually happening? I have heard many, many people claim this, but when asked for an actual example, they never have one.

    41. Re:Monsanto takes .. by thaylin · · Score: 1

      ever heard of a thing called patent exhaustion?

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      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    42. Re:Monsanto takes .. by thaylin · · Score: 2

      How do you know they did not find out afterwords, and then decided to spray? Are you a payed shrill or something?

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      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    43. Re:Monsanto takes .. by arth1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Monstanto is to Farming as Scientology is to Religion.

      That's like saying Monsanto is to farming like cockroaches are to vermin. You're still badmouthing farmers.

    44. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Informative

      Citation

      Sure. Let me google that for you:

      The person cited in your link, Percy Schmeiser, not only intentionally planted Monsanto patented seeds, but admitted doing it.

      So I am still waiting for a single citation for Monsanto suing anyone for unintentional infringement.

    45. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      It is relevant, He asked for an example and received one.

      He asked for an example of someone sued for unintentional infringement. What he got as an example of someone sued for blatant, willful, and intentional infringement. That is not quite the same thing.

    46. Re:Monsanto takes .. by bbelt16ag · · Score: 1

      shang he was not talking about the specific istantce of the aritcle, but in GENERAL dumb ass.

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    47. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All your seed are belong to us

    48. Re:Monsanto takes .. by bbelt16ag · · Score: 1

      it looks like we could purchase this company for about 40B to maybe 100B.. I think we get Sony, M$, and Google together they could buy it out right and opensource the seeds. This company is a monster as far as i am concerned, and it needs to be stopped.

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      NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
    49. Re:Monsanto takes .. by bbelt16ag · · Score: 1

      thanks frank. I think we should buy this company up and shut it down... who is with me?

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      NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
    50. Re:Monsanto takes .. by bbelt16ag · · Score: 1

      ok, i can concede to shang here, if i had pot growing on my land, and i just discovered it.. But i did not report it and then harvested it and sold it i would be in trouble.

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      NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
    51. Re:Monsanto takes .. by sunyjim · · Score: 2

      http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/genetics_modification/percyschmeiser.html For seven years, Percy Schmeiser has argued that seeds from Monsanto's patented genetically-modified canola landed on his 1,400 acre farm near Bruno, east of Saskatoon, by accident. Monsanto has altered the plant's genes to make the canola resistant to Roundup, a Monsanto weed killer. Monsanto patented the gene and the process of inserting it into the seed.

    52. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These farmers knew full well that they were planting GMO seed, they knew that Monsanto had a patent on it, and they took full advantage of the GMO by spraying their crops with glyphosate. To portray these farmers as poor victims of pollen spread by the wind is baloney.

      You assume too much.
      THEY MUST prove it first place that there was malice. And I don't care, were there malice or not, I want that there is proper check for malice!

      Otherwise they will just go suing everyone on right and left, whenever it was intentional or not, GMO stuff on other people's land that is.

    53. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      Do you work for Monsanto or their law group?

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    54. Re:Monsanto takes .. by thaylin · · Score: 1

      The initial planting was not willful. In addition hos did he infringe? did he create the seeds, or did nature after he unintentionally planted the first batch?

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      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    55. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0

      Do you work for Monsanto, or their law group?

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    56. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here farmers were knowingly replanting seed they had purchased.

      Bastards

    57. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I am no fan of Monsanto, but... I posted countless times in this thread defending their evil practices, using both bold and italics each time! "

      FTFY

    58. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 0

      Do you work for Monsanto, or their law group?

      Nope. I am not "pro-Monsanto", I am "anti-bullshit". As I write this, there are over 200 posts, many of them making allegations without a single citation or reference to back them up. Just because hating Monsanto is "politically correct" doesn't make it okay to just make crap up, and spread falsehoods. We should have higher standards than that.

      So instead of impugning my integrity, why don't you cite a single example that refutes what I have said: That Monsanto has never sued anyone for unintentionally infringing their GMO patents. I don't know for certain if that is true. All I am saying is that I don't know of a single instance of it happening. And apparently neither do you.

    59. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 0

      "I am no fan of Monsanto, but... I posted countless times in this thread defending their evil practices,

      I am not defending Monsanto. I am attacking dishonesty and false allegations. There is no need to defend their "evil practices" when neither you nor anyone else seems to have any evidence that they actually engaged in those practices. If you disagree then cite an example .

    60. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Burz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I do know this much: If I were a farmer, I would not want the burden of having to test my crops each season for patent violations trying to take hold on their own.

      These farmers took that burden and tried to turn it into an opportunity. But of course, according to the legal system *every* seed on every lot now has to meet with Monsanto's approval.

    61. Re:Monsanto takes .. by andydread · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is the boiler-plate canned response from Monsanto Public Relations when they get called out on their GMO contaminating non GMO and organic fields and abusing patents to intimidate small farmers and seed cleaners out of business. Its boilerplate give it a rest already. People aren't going to swallow you PR attempt here. If I could avoid purchasing products based on Monsanto products I would. These people are slime.

    62. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Bahamut_Omega · · Score: 0

      Think it might be time to drop Monsanto's bottom line to start showing red? I think some of the farmers might be better off trying to run with edible weeds for feeding both family & livestock. I'd try either crabgrass as a possible starting ground, and have it running for bit as both grain and greens.

    63. Re:Monsanto takes .. by andydread · · Score: 1

      I think the arguement that he asked for an example is a big lie. From what I saw the Roundup-Ready (tm)(r) Monsanto contaminated canola plants were discovered growing outside is property and his property was contaminated by direct seed drift. Do you guys work for a PR firm contracted by Monsanto? Or are you directly employed by Monsanto? Monsanto has been known to hire PR trolls to spread propoganda online in discussions of GMO and Monsanto.

    64. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Rubinhood · · Score: 5, Informative

      > you will find precisely zero cases where this happened. If you want to prove me wrong, then cite one case where a farmer was sued for unintentional infringement.

      See Percy Schmeiser's struggle against Monsanto (which took several years) here:
      http://www.percyschmeiser.com/

      "Percy Schmeiser is a farmer from Bruno, Saskatchewan Canada whose Canola fields were contaminated with Monsanto's Round-Up Ready Canola." Then Monsanto sued him.

      I cannot think of a more evil and greedy corporation than Monsanto and the likes. I thank God I live in a part of Europe where no GM crops are allowed.

    65. Re:Monsanto takes .. by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      That is, in this case, a good point. Here farmers were knowingly replanting seed they had purchased..

      They didn't "replant" the seed. The legally purchased the seed, and it grew. The new product produced new seeds. These seeds were what was replanted. This is kind of like grandparents claiming their grandchildren belong to them.

    66. Re:Monsanto takes .. by chrismcb · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The infringing farmers took concerted action, over several years, to isolate and propagate the seeds, and then benefited from the patented gene by spraying their fields with glyphosate.

      Since it isn't mentioned in either of TFAs I'll take your word for it. But I don't believe the issue is that they had or didn't have a strain of Monsato's designed food. The question is, who owns the second generation of seeds?
      They way I understand it, you patent a process. I'm pretty sure Monsato didn't patent farming, and growing. So what process did these farmers break?

    67. Re:Monsanto takes .. by chrismcb · · Score: 2

      I don't think anyone is sued for unintentional infringement. And while this is a Canadian suit, this farmer claimed he never planted the seed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc._v._Schmeiser

    68. Re:Monsanto takes .. by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      That WAS one case. The original crop was not intentionally planted on his property. The fact that he took advantage of the situation should be irrelevant. He lost, but because the first crop wasn't intentional Monsato also lost.

    69. Re:Monsanto takes .. by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      there have been instances of Monsanto claiming that farmers who simply have their seeds in their field, even through natural spreading, owe them a fee.

      Do you have a source for that?

    70. Re:Monsanto takes .. by EngnrFrmrlyKnownAsAC · · Score: 1

      Neither article mentions any crops being sprayed with glyphosate (Round-up) [citation?]. The case in TFA is about a farmer who planted legally purchased seed which happened to be second-generation to GMO seed.

      It may be reasonable for Monsanto to use copyright law against competing seed conglomerates to protect the results of their research but it's outright absurd how they use threats and court actions against their very customers without hesitation if they see a quick buck.

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      Howdy howdy howdy
    71. Re:Monsanto takes .. by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      The GPP posits that there are cases where " farmers who did not kill everything but GMO in their fields with Roundup ", and you back it up with a case where the farmer sprayed a portion of his field with glyphosate and told his farmhands to SPECIFICALLY keep seeds from that part fields for regrowing.

    72. Re:Monsanto takes .. by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      You know, claiming that people are payed shills simply for quoting the facts of the case kind of makes it seem like you just lost the argument.

    73. Re:Monsanto takes .. by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      Because he did it for years, and started saving the seeds from the second growing in stead of buying from the grain elevator?

      Can we make a Godwins law, part two? If you claim the other person is a payed shill, you lose? It's not like it's a argument for anything but that the person claiming it have no valid arguments left.

    74. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I believe that you're wrong. Monsanto authorizes their seed progeny to the elevators. The farmer that sold his seed to the grain elevator was allowed to do so contractually. Another farmer subsequently purchased seed from the grain elevator, with the Monsanto seed mixed in, and planted it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/feb/09/soybean-farmer-monsanto-supreme-court

      Well, they (Monsato) want to have it both ways: Sold UNMARKED as GM, so that we couldn't discriminate against GM when purchasing seed, and still hold us responsible as if we were completely informed when we treat it as if it was completely natural. For all we know, farmers' seed selection process for glyphosate tolerance could have netted out a naturally occurring mutation in grain, or at least they could claim that was what they were aiming at.

    75. Re:Monsanto takes .. by YeeHaW_Jelte · · Score: 1

      "took full advantage of the GMO by spraying their crops with glyphosate"

      Please show sources for this assertition. It is not mentioned in TFA. What is, is this:

      "However, farmers are able to buy excess soybeans from local grain elevators, many of which are likely to be Roundup Ready seeds. One of Bowman's trips to such a grain elevator put him in Monsanto’s sights.
      “We have always had the right to go to an elevator, buy some ‘junk grain’ and use it for seed if you desire,” Bowman explained."

      He'd be pretty stupid to use Roundup if he wasn't sure 100% of his seeds where resistent, wouldn't he?

      I hate to say it, but you sound terribly much like a shill for Monsanto.

      --

      ---
      "The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
    76. Re:Monsanto takes .. by YeeHaW_Jelte · · Score: 2

      You are obviously a paid shill. Because for someone demanding citations you are very light on facts yourself. Printing it in bold doesn't make it true.

      Amuse me. Just cite ONE ARTICLE claiming Bowman actually used Roundup/glyphosate on the second generation seeds he bought from the elevator.

      --

      ---
      "The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
    77. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem awefully eager to make sure everybody knows that, being your 25th post to this effect or so. Why may that be? Of course without the realistic option of suing Monsanto for damages for infecting his crop and having invested time and devoted acreage to a crop a farmer's hardly liable to neglect it by not trying to maximize the yield on his investment is he now?

    78. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ApplePy · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's at least one of you on every fucking forum on the internet. How much do they pay you?

      Do you think we don't notice the very narrow range of threads you post on? Shit, I bet I've run across YOU before, with a different user name. Are you guys subcontractors, or do you work full time in PR? I'd say desperate college kids in some stupid major that will never pay anything (Communications!) trying to make a buck, or some such.

      I've seen you everywhere from extreme right-wing political forums to organic gardening BBSs. Same words, same phrasing, same links to the same few bullshit court cases. It's always EXACTLY the fucking same story from you fucks.

      Burn in hell.

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    79. Re:Monsanto takes .. by betterprimate · · Score: 1

      It's not baloney and very, very real. There was a case ongoing just a few years ago because their seed *did* pollenating from neighboring fields. In fact, this is a large problem and they're taking their case internationally by farmers who haphazardly stumbled upon their seed. Shit, there's even a documentary about it.

    80. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Zouden · · Score: 1

      The patent on the use of glyphosate-resistant GM crops.

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
    81. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ApplePy · · Score: 2

      First AC I've seen at +5 Insightful for a while. But by the time I hit "reply" it was down to +4. What fuckwit is down-modding this? (Uhhh.... I'll take "Monsanto Shills" for $500, Alex!) Someone out there has a problem with the idea that *life itself* shouldn't be subject to patent law? I'll wring your fucking chicken neck.

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    82. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "took full advantage of the GMO by spraying their crops with glyphosate"

      Please show sources for this assertition. It is not mentioned in TFA.

      Sure, here you go. From the citation: Bowman also bought seeds from a local commodity seed provider and planted a second crop. Finding that the majority of seeds purchased from the local provider were herbicide resistant, Bowman also treated them with herbicide.

      So he bought commodity seeds, sprayed them with glyphosate to kill the non-GMO plants, and then harvested the pure GMO seeds to plant the following year. Bowman has not denied any of that, but has instead claimed that he had a right to do it.

    83. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      You are obviously a paid shill.

      Nope, I just enjoy being a contrarian. On other days I have defended fracking, high frequency traders, etc. When everybody is jumping on a politically correct bandwagon, someone should point out when there are no wheels on the wagon.

      Just cite ONE ARTICLE claiming Bowman actually used Roundup/glyphosate on the second generation seeds he bought from the elevator.

      Sure. I have posted this citation elsewhere, but I will repeat it here so this thread is not left dangling. From the cited article: Bowman also bought seeds from a local commodity seed provider and planted a second crop. Finding that the majority of seeds purchased from the local provider were herbicide resistant, Bowman also treated them with herbicide.

      He has openly admitted that he used glyphosate on the crops grown from the commodity seeds. His defense is that he as a right to do so, not that he didn't do it.

    84. Re:Monsanto takes .. by liamevo · · Score: 1

      So, if selling seeds is such a bad business model, how the hell have all the other seed companies through out the past, who don't have "you can't plant the new seeds" policies, managed to survive?

    85. Re:Monsanto takes .. by YeeHaW_Jelte · · Score: 1

      Ok thanks, point taken that Bowman is actively testing Monsanto's right to second generation seeds. Even though linked article does not assert he used Roundup, just 'a herbicide'. Your statement that he used glyphosate is not proven by the cited article. It might have been any kind of traditional herbicide used on soybeans.

      --

      ---
      "The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
    86. Re:Monsanto takes .. by xelah · · Score: 0, Troll

      It's a statement of a very plain and rather limited personal opinion. It contains no argument, no additional facts, no exploration or suggestion of consequences or alternatives. For example, should seeds be freely re-plantable and research funded publicly? Or not funded at all? Or should some other form of funding or protection be granted? What are the negative consequences and why does the poster believe them to be greater than any benefits? How does the statement add to the discussion? Where is the, umm, insight?

      All it tells us is that there exists one person on slashdot who doesn't like either seed or software patents, which we already know, and that five others have decided to use the '+1 insightful' option as if it meant '+1 I agree'. The comment is worthless and the moderators are lying....sounds like a good reason for someone to down-mod it to me.

    87. Re:Monsanto takes .. by buss_error · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I own a farm. I do not buy seed from Monsanto. Never have. I refuse to on moral grounds. Yet I am sued by Monsanto every 2 to 4 years. Their "inspectors" trespass on my property, collect samples from 50 to 200 plants, and if only ONE has their GMO dna, I get sued. The farmer next to me buys exclusively Monsanto seed.

      You figure it out. I have.

      In the near future, anyone found on my property that doesn't have permission to be there... well, it won't be pretty.

      --
      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    88. Re:Monsanto takes .. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Do you have a citation? Because the only instance I could find was a US farmer who planted non-GM corn next to his roundup-ready corn, harvested it, planted the resulting seed corn the next year, and dosed it liberally with roundup to have a free roundup-ready crop the next year. IIRC Monsanto successfully sued.

      GM has IP (I hate the term "IP" as it isn't really property). IMO genetics should not be patentable, roundup-ready is a reason. By the time the patent runs out the non=corn grasses will have evolved roundup resistance, so by the time it's public domain, it's worthless.

      I wonder if anyone has tried to "engineer" herbicide-resistant crops naturally?

    89. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glad you outed yourself, shill.

    90. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      really excellent point. If Monsanto held a patent on an industrial machine that duplicated itself, would Monsanto have a case against any that used a duplicated machine to make more?

    91. Re:Monsanto takes .. by TaQ · · Score: 1

      A lot of farmers knew about the patents, but a lot didn't. You must consider that there are small farmers using their products, and if you ask some of them about "do you know what a patent is?" they will think is a kind of fruit. :-) I doubt even who knows about the patents could imagine that they will become victims of it on this level. Monsanto told them that Roundup (glyphosate) was safe and biodegradable (1), I guess what kinds of other advantages and lies they told them when they started to sell their seeds.

      And even organic farmers are in danger (2)(3). They affirm that their fields are cross-pollinated with genetic material from neighboring farms growing Monsanto crops. When the question is money, people are unfortunately creative. :-(

      (1) http://earthopensource.org/index.php/5-gm-crops-impacts-on-the-farm-and-environment/5-6-myth-roundup-is-a-benign-and-biodegradable-herbicide
      (2) http://www.fooddigital.com/production/monsanto-wins-case-against-organic-growers
      (3) http://www.rodale.com/research-feed/organic-vs-monsanto-organic-farmers-lose-right-protect-crops

    92. Re:Monsanto takes .. by TaQ · · Score: 3, Informative

      A lot of farmers knew about the patents, but a lot didn't. You must consider that there are small farmers using their products, and if you ask some of them about "do you know what a patent is?" they will think is a kind of fruit. :-) I doubt even who knows about the patents could imagine that they will become victims of it on this level. Monsanto told them that Roundup (glyphosate) was safe and biodegradable (1), I guess what kinds of other advantages and lies they told them when they started to sell their seeds.

      And even organic farmers are in danger (2)(3). They affirm that their fields are cross-pollinated with genetic material from neighboring farms growing Monsanto crops. When the question is money, people are unfortunately creative. :-(

      (1) http://earthopensource.org/index.php/5-gm-crops-impacts-on-the-farm-and-environment/5-6-myth-roundup-is-a-benign-and-biodegradable-herbicide
      (2) http://www.fooddigital.com/production/monsanto-wins-case-against-organic-growers
      (3) http://www.rodale.com/research-feed/organic-vs-monsanto-organic-farmers-lose-right-protect-crops

    93. Re:Monsanto takes .. by TaQ · · Score: 1

      A lot of farmers knew about the patents, but a lot didn't. You must consider that there are small farmers using their products, and if you ask some of them about "do you know what a patent is?" they will think is a kind of fruit. :-) I doubt even who knows about the patents could imagine that they will become victims of it on this level. Monsanto told them that Roundup (glyphosate) was safe and biodegradable (1), I guess what kinds of other advantages and lies they told them when they started to sell their seeds.

      And even organic farmers are in danger (2)(3). They affirm that their fields are cross-pollinated with genetic material from neighboring farms growing Monsanto crops. When the question is money, people are unfortunately creative. :-(

      (1) http://earthopensource.org/index.php/5-gm-crops-impacts-on-the-farm-and-environment/5-6-myth-roundup-is-a-benign-and-biodegradable-herbicide
      (2) http://www.fooddigital.com/production/monsanto-wins-case-against-organic-growers
      (3) http://www.rodale.com/research-feed/organic-vs-monsanto-organic-farmers-lose-right-protect-crops

    94. Re:Monsanto takes .. by TaQ · · Score: 1

      A lot of farmers knew about the patents, but a lot didn't. You must consider that there are small farmers using their products, and if you ask some of them about "do you know what a patent is?" they will think is a kind of fruit. :-) I doubt even who knows about the patents could imagine that they will become victims of it on this level. Monsanto told them that Roundup (glyphosate) was safe and biodegradable (1), I guess what kinds of other advantages and lies they told them when they started to sell their seeds.

      And even organic farmers are in danger (2)(3). They affirm that their fields are cross-pollinated with genetic material from neighboring farms growing Monsanto crops. When the question is money, people are unfortunately creative. :-(

      (1) http://earthopensource.org/index.php/5-gm-crops-impacts-on-the-farm-and-environment/5-6-myth-roundup-is-a-benign-and-biodegradable-herbicide [earthopensource.org]
      (2) http://www.fooddigital.com/production/monsanto-wins-case-against-organic-growers [fooddigital.com]
      (3) http://www.rodale.com/research-feed/organic-vs-monsanto-organic-farmers-lose-right-protect-crops [rodale.com]

    95. Re:Monsanto takes .. by TaQ · · Score: 1
    96. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0153.html

    97. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ideonexus · · Score: 1

      I'm not a Monsanto fan at all, and was shocked at the corrupt behaviors described in the film Food Inc about the company suing small farms out of business because their crops were inadvertently cross-pollinated with Monsanto RoudupReady GMOs, but then I felt like a fool because Organic Farmers filed a class-action lawsuit against Monsanto over suing for patent infringement where cross-pollination was the culprit and the judge threw the case out because the farmers could not produce one single example of this happening.

      --
      i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
    98. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Jeffrey_Walsh+VA · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't have references but I saw a documentary film about this. The film makers may have distorted but it seemed plausible and a number of farmers affected went on camera stating clearly what their experience was. The film illustrated how Monsanto was careful not to bring to suit most cases where the evidence was not strong enough, but they harassed and intimidated farmers, coercing settlement money. They made the point that many more farmers were forced to pay money to Monsanto without a suit being filed, than cases filed in court.

    99. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      You may not be a shill, but you are tediously repetitive. Four identical posts and counting.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    100. Re:Monsanto takes .. by cHALiTO · · Score: 1

      So, let me get this straight.

      Joe goes and buys seeds from monsanto. They belong to him now, as he paid for them. Mind you, he didn't loan, rent or anything like that.. he BOUGHT the seeds. So how on earth does monsanto get any say in how Joe uses HIS seeds? Something's very very wrong here. Patents are not EULAs (and for the record, I also think EULAs that dictate how you can use your own bought copy of any software is also bullshit. You're restricted by copyright law, meaning you can't redistribute without permission and some limitations like that, but otherwise it's YOUR copy and once you bought it companies should have no say whatsoever on what you can do with it in your own home as long as you're not violating copyright law).

      --
      "Luck is my middle name," said Rincewind, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." -- Terry Pratchett
    101. Re:Monsanto takes .. by johnnyb · · Score: 1

      But the seeds naturally produce other seeds. That is what seeds do. Did the farmer sign an agreement stating that they would not re-gather the seeds? If not, I don't see how Monsanto has a case. They sell seeds. The natural result of a seed is to produce more seeds. That would be like selling someone a printer and then coming back and claiming copyright on everything it prints.

      If, however, the farmer signed an agreement, then I think the stupid person is just the farmer, and Monsanto is just taking advantage of fools.

    102. Re:Monsanto takes .. by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Informative

      But GMO crops didn't just "grow alone" by themselves. The infringing farmers took concerted action, over several years, to isolate and propagate the seeds, and then benefited from the patented gene by spraying their fields with glyphosate.

      Sorry, but bullshit.

      There have been numerous instances of natural pollination contaminating other people's crops and Monstanto suing them.

      This isn't a case of someone ripping off their seed and using their chemicals -- this is a case of farmers who aren't using their seeds or chemicals (in some case organic farmers who have never used it).

      Because the problem becomes that wind, bees, and every other natural way plants get pollinated can cross pollinate into other fields, and Monstanto ends up suing.

      Monsanto are greedy asshats, and their product is contaminating other people's farms, and then they sue because your crop has their gene in it when you did nothing at all.

      So unless Monsanto can find a way to keep their stuff from contaminating other stuff (which they won't because it's a cash cow), this will continue to end up where it isn't supposed to be through no fault of the people who own the crops.

      Monsanto owns the patent on a gene, and genes can spread through natural methods quite readily.

      Someone can plant Monsanto seed miles away and have it pollinate your crops, and then you get sued. This is not a case of someone actively using Monsanto's crap, it's people who in many cases are avoiding it.

      Monsanto sucks balls.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    103. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ShanghaiBill is a PLANT from Monsanto Grow up you dweeb and get smarter

    104. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NOt EVERY farmer uses Roundup fool

    105. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea that the product of planting a plant, its seeds, can be owned is absurd. You shouldn't need to buy new seeds year after year when the plant, which by the way you own, is producing seeds on its own.

    106. Re:Monsanto takes .. by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      So I am still waiting for a single citation for Monsanto suing anyone for unintentional infringement.

      Then read the fucking article.

      At the center of the case is Monsanto's protection of its patented soybean, known as Roundup Ready. When farmers like Bowman plant the company's seeds, they are only allowed to harvest the resulting crop - not keep any for next year's harvest.

      Under these rules, farmers have to buy new Monsanto seeds to plant each season, even if they already have usable seeds in their possession.
      However, farmers are able to buy excess soybeans from local grain elevators, many of which are likely to be Roundup Ready seeds. One of Bowman's trips to such a grain elevator put him in Monsanto's sights.

      "We have always had the right to go to an elevator, buy some 'junk grain' and use it for seed if you desire," Bowman explained.
      But the question of whether he really does have that right is still up in the air. and will be determined by a Supreme Court judge.

      He bought bulk seed from a grain elevator, planted it, didn't use any Monsanto products, but now finds himself in a lawsuit.

      So someone buys their shit, signs a contract, sells it into a common pool, and someone ends up with Monsanto's patented genes in their crop.

      The guy who sold the junk grain broke his contract to not save seeds for next year, but this guy neither signed a contract with Monsanto nor knew he was using their shit.

      How fucking unintentional do you need?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    107. Re:Monsanto takes .. by TaQ · · Score: 1

      Patents sucks a lot these days. Software, food, drugs ...

    108. Re:Monsanto takes .. by santiagoanders · · Score: 1
      --
      "There can be little doubt that union activities lead to continuous and progressive inflation." F. A. Hayek
    109. Re:Monsanto takes .. by TheP4st · · Score: 1

      Organic Farmers filed a class-action lawsuit against Monsanto over suing for patent infringement where cross-pollination was the culprit and the judge threw the case out because the farmers could not produce one single example of this happening.

      I am not overly familiar with the US court system but how about out of court settlements, could the judge even take those into consideration? http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/index.cfm/go/news.display/id/23451

      Monsanto has sued more than 700 additional farmers who have settled out-of-court rather than face Monsanto's belligerent, and well-financed, litigious actions.

      The article you refer to is very vague on the actual specifics in the Organic Farmers' lawsuit and equally vague on the details for the judge's decision. To me it almost read as a press release with just that tiny hint of "balanced" reporting needed to not be overly blatant in for whom it were written.

      What was it that they could not produce one single example of happening, cross pollination? If so, your linked article contain a link ( http://www.npr.org/2011/03/01/134162035/a-growing-debate-how-to-define-organic-food ) leading to the below:

      Organic farmers aren't allowed to plant GMO seeds. But most conventional corn in America is genetically modified, and among all grains, corn is perhaps the most promiscuous cross-pollinator, so its genes often migrate into organic fields via windblown pollen that lands on the tassels of organic corn..... most organic corn in the U.S. typically contains anywhere from half a percent to 2 percent GMOs, according to companies that sell such corn to organic dairies or poultry farmers. It has been that way since genetically engineered corn and soybeans became popular, more than a decade ago

      So cross pollination would appear to be a fact. Leaving us to assume that the judge threw out the case as the Organic Farmers' were unable to prove any cases of Monsanto suing farmers for cases where the claimed infringement were due to cross pollination. How about the below, close enough for you? http://rt.com/usa/news/monsanto-seeds-trial-bowman-123/:

      At the center of the case is Monsanto’s protection of its patented soybean, known as Roundup Ready. When farmers like Bowman plant the company’s seeds, they are only allowed to harvest the resulting crop – not keep any for next year’s harvest.

      Under these rules, farmers have to buy new Monsanto seeds to plant each season, even if they already have usable seeds in their possession.

      However, farmers are able to buy excess soybeans from local grain elevators, many of which are likely to be Roundup Ready seeds. One of Bowman's trips to such a grain elevator put him in Monsanto’s sights.

      “We have always had the right to go to an elevator, buy some ‘junk grain’ and use it for seed if you desire,” Bowman explained.

      While not a case of cross pollination in the strict meaning of the word it do get pretty damned close, if a ruling is made in favor of Monsanto it would invite them to get even more aggressive in their intimidation tactics and I would be little surprised if the number of out of court settlements increased exponentially.

      --
      "I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
    110. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, ShanghaiShill, are you using Monsanto's definition of "unintentional" infringement? As you can see in this article, Monsanto believes it is the farmer's responsibility to create buffers between their crops and their neighbors, otherwise it is the fault of the farmer.

    111. Re:Monsanto takes .. by StrangeBrew · · Score: 1

      You'd think that pissing off and bankrupting a bunch of farmers with legal access to truckloads of fertilizer would eventually go horribly wrong for the evil corporation responsible.

    112. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, ShanghaiBill is calling BS on the people claiming Monsanto is evil. They are required to cite the facts, not the skeptic.

    113. Re:Monsanto takes .. by eth1 · · Score: 1

      I own a farm. I do not buy seed from Monsanto. Never have. I refuse to on moral grounds. Yet I am sued by Monsanto every 2 to 4 years. Their "inspectors" trespass on my property, collect samples from 50 to 200 plants, and if only ONE has their GMO dna, I get sued. The farmer next to me buys exclusively Monsanto seed.

      You figure it out. I have.

      In the near future, anyone found on my property that doesn't have permission to be there... well, it won't be pretty.

      Wouldn't any "evidence" they collect and present in court also prove that they trespassed and committed theft and/or vandalism?

    114. Re:Monsanto takes .. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      The problem with patenting life is that it tends to do it's own thing. This leads to the legal equivalent of Dick Cheney kicking you out of your own home because his dog shat in your yard.

      Life tends to contaminate it's surrounding environment. That's what it does. It tends to make "ownership" and even trickier prospect then ethereal things like "invention".

      Some people like to say that the GPL is viral. Life is that way for real.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    115. Re:Monsanto takes .. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      IOW: they did what ALL FARMERS have done since the beginnings of agriculture about ten thousand years ago.

      Saving your own seed should be a fundemental right. It should not even have to be debated. This should get nowhere to the point where you need a new Constitutional Amendment just to sort this nonsense out.

      Monsanto owning your crop is a BAD consequence of patent law as applied to LIFE.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    116. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't there some law in the US about evidence acquired illegally being inadmissible? Seems to me that going onto somebody else's property without permission and taking plants that they had planted would make such plants inadmissible as evidence. (Though I am no Lawyer). Seems that they would also be legally liable for trespassing and theft - How does this work from a legal perspective?

    117. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but bullshit.

      No it isn't. Monsanto has never sued anyone for unintentional infringement. If you want to prove me wrong, all you have to do is cite a single example of them doing so.

      Your post includes two links, both of which point to anti-Monsanto rants. They both describe the case of Percy Schmeiser, who has admitted in court to intentional and deliberate infringement of Monsanto's patents.

      So all you need is a single example of someone sued for unintentional infringement to prove me wrong.

    118. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So I am still waiting for a single citation for Monsanto suing anyone for unintentional infringement.

      Then read the fucking article.

      I have. It contains no such citation.

      He bought bulk seed from a grain elevator, planted it, didn't use any Monsanto products, but now finds himself in a lawsuit.

      You left out a few steps. He bought the seed, sprayed it with glyphosate to kill the non-GMO plants, harvested the resulting pure-GMO seed, and used it the following year to grow crops treated with glyphosate. Are you seriously suggesting that was unintentional?

    119. Re:Monsanto takes .. by jfengel · · Score: 1

      Really? I would have thought just the opposite. Software is pretty easy to write. You do it, I do it, everybody on the site does it every day. The overwhelming majority of software patents are incredibly obvious to anybody with even a passing familiarity with the art, much less an expert.

      Seeds, on the other hand... even if I'd had the idea to create a pesticide-resistant crop, I wouldn't know even the first thing about how to go about making such a thing. I'd have to get a PhD in biochemistry to even understand how they did it, and I'm sure that it took a large team many years to actually get it right.

      And unlike a shopping cart patent, they then had to "prove" that it was safe to eat. I don't trust Monsanto any more than you do as to whether they've really proven it, but they didn't just throw those seeds out there. They spent millions conducting tests. They may not have done as much work as I'd like, but what they did sure isn't comparable to banging out a little PHP and then knocking off for lunch.

      I'm not here to defend Monsanto, who have behaved like grade-A douchebags in many different areas, right up there with the **AAs. But I'm not going to pretend that their work is easy. Maybe intellectual property is so screwed up that that we might as well just ditch it in general, but if there's one part to go, I'd chuck software patents before I chucked work creating custom seeds. The latter is a lot harder than the former.

    120. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      There was at least one case of a farmer who bought his seed from a grain elevator and simply planted it. He was not replanting crop he had bought from Monsanto. He was buying whatever seed happened to be in that elevator and planting it, exactly like farmers have done for thousands of years.

      You don't actually say so, but you seem to imply that the farmer was sued by Monsanto for doing this. If so, you are wrong. Monsanto has never sued anyone for unintentionally planting their GMO seeds. If you really believe otherwise, then you can prove me wrong by citing a single example where they have done so.

    121. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The initial planting was not willful.

      He isn't being sued for the initial planting.

      did he create the seeds, or did nature after he unintentionally planted the first batch?

      Are you suggesting that "nature" filled a sprayer tank with glyphosate and applied it to his crops?

    122. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are obviously a paid shill. Because for someone demanding citations you are very light on facts yourself. Printing it in bold doesn't make it true.

      Amuse me. Just cite ONE ARTICLE claiming Bowman actually used Roundup/glyphosate on the second generation seeds he bought from the elevator.

      Who's the paid shill??

    123. Re:Monsanto takes .. by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      When the patent system was drawn up, I do not thing they had second generation GM crops in mind, in the same way they didn't have computer software in mind. All this tells us is that the patent system needs to be reformed, and a decision regarding GM crops (and software) worked out.

      I must declare that I work in pharma, and I see the value in patents as applied to a business that must put in so much research and investment into a strain of a protein, and then try to make that back all in a limited length of time, before the patent expires. If there was such a loophole as "second generation of the strain" that invalidated all the work put into developing the parent, then companies will stop developing them.

      You cannot question that Monsanto's right to make money on the invested research (I'm not going to touch the topic of legitimate farmers accidentally having the crop on their land) when a completely un-foreseeable loophole makes its way in.

      Yes, it's possible that Monsanto could have bribed their way to victory, or this may simply be a case where the farmers cannot afford the same lawyers as M, but seen objectively, if the "property" of the GM crop is that it is immune to glyphosate, and the farmers are taking full advantage of this, then they are breaking the "spirit" of the patent, if not the law of it (because the law isn't written to cover second generation of GM Crops).

    124. Re:Monsanto takes .. by jfengel · · Score: 1

      The problem is that he planted seeds with patented genes only because they had infected his own cultivar. He did not purchase the seeds from Monsanto; he did not have an agreement with them not to replant. He would rather not have Monsanto's genes, but could not avoid it.

      Much as I hate arguing by analogy, it's like the RIAA hacking into your computer, splicing Justin Bieber songs into your Audacity files, and then suing you when you play it. Unlike the analogy, it wasn't deliberate that Monsanto put its genes into Schmeiser's crop, but they were knowingly spreading pollen into the environment and it was unavoidable that it would affect somebody else's crop. They did not take any precautions to prevent their IP from being literally forced on other farmers.

      The only way for Schmeiser to avoid replanting Monsanto's IP would have been to destroy his own seeds, an IP of Schmeiser's own that Monsanto negligently destroyed. Copying seeds is a lot harder than copying files; Schmeiser can't just restore from backup at no cost. If Schemiser owes money to Monsanto, Monsanto owes at least as much to Schmeiser.

    125. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I think the arguement that he asked for an example is a big lie.

      So asking for a citation is a "big lie", and failing to provide one is evidence of truth?

      From what I saw ...

      Saw where? Again: citation please.

      Monsanto has been known to hire PR trolls to spread propoganda online in discussions of GMO and Monsanto.

      Why are you using weasel words like "has been known to"? Why don't you just say where this has happened?

      For the record: I do not work for Monsanto, I just enjoy pointing out content free nonsense. But if Monsanto is willing to pay me to be a shill, I would love to know where to apply.

    126. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      They didn't "replant" the seed. The legally purchased the seed, and it grew.

      You left out some critical steps. They sprayed the original crop with glyphosate to kill the non-GMO plants, harvested the resulting pure GMO seeds, and planted them the following year and applied glyphosate again, taking full advantage of the GMO.

      This is kind of like grandparents claiming their grandchildren belong to them.

      After poisoning all the other kids in the village ...

    127. Re:Monsanto takes .. by andydread · · Score: 1

      How about you provide proof that you don't work for Monsanto or any PR agency retained by them. Your relentless defence of them here speaks otherwise.

    128. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      You may not be a shill, but you are tediously repetitive. Four identical posts and counting.

      Yes, four repetitive posts, each asking for a citation. So far none provided.

      Calling someone a "shill" doesn't invalidate their arguments. Providing an actual citation does.

    129. Re:Monsanto takes .. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I own a farm. I do not buy seed from Monsanto. Never have. I refuse to on moral grounds. Yet I am sued by Monsanto every 2 to 4 years.

      Can you provide a court and case number? If you don't want to do that, then can you provide a court and case number for a friend or neighbor that was sued? Can you provide any link or reference to anyone, ever being sued for the type of unintentional infringement that you are describing?

      Just for the record: I do not believe your anecdote, and to put it bluntly, I think you are lying. All you need is a single citation to prove me wrong.

    130. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Tutter · · Score: 1

      ..I wish Canada would adopt the ban against GM crops! Only if people revolt en mass will the governments listen and stop the Monsanto monster.

    131. Re:Monsanto takes .. by liquidsin · · Score: 1

      your turn for a citation. either point out to us where percy schmeiser ever admits to planting the monsanto seed, or shut the fuck up. all you've done this whole thread is try to prop up the multi-billion-dollar corporation, and you've provided no evidence. every single article i can find on percy schmeiser says that he's never admitted to planting monsanto seed, and he's defeated them in court more than once. they tried to make him sign a gag order before they'd pay to clean up his fields that their seed contaminated, and when he sued them instead, they paid up with no stipulations. so...citations?

      --
      do not read this line twice.
    132. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There have been numerous instances of natural pollination contaminating other people's crops and Monstanto suing them. This isn't a case of someone ripping off their seed and using their chemicals -- this is a case of farmers who aren't using their seeds or chemicals (in some case organic farmers who have never used it).

      Both your links are about Percy Schmeiser, who used chemicals to select for GMO seeds and harvested them for replanting. Monsanto is evil, but lies aren't going to help us win.

    133. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somehow I suspect I would acquit if I ended up on the jury for that wrongful death claim. Have you tried suing Monsanto for trespass? Have you ever asked a judge to declare Monsanto a vexatious litigant?

    134. Re:Monsanto takes .. by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      You left out a few steps. He bought the seed, sprayed it with glyphosate to kill the non-GMO plants, harvested the resulting pure-GMO seed, and used it the following year to grow crops treated with glyphosate.

      You're claiming that, but it's not in either of the articles linked from the summary. The description of what he did was to buy generic seed and use it. You're suggesting a willful violation with facts not present.

      Are you seriously suggesting that was unintentional?

      No, I'm seriously suggesting that the articles make no statements to back up your claim, and that your assertion is lacking any evidence.

      I see nothing to support your claim that Mr. Bowman did any of what you claim -- in fact, I see the opposite.

      So, either cite something specific to this case, or stop making factual assertions you can't back up. Show me one place where it details that Bowman did this, because I haven't been able to find any reference to it in the articles.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    135. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      Only if you make the mistake of believing that the faults of religions are down to "religion" rather than that humans are involved in these institutions.

      Humans pull the same crap in everything they engage in: politics, commerce, religion, families: society in all its forms.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    136. Re:Monsanto takes .. by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Only if you make the mistake of believing that the faults of religions are down to "religion" rather than that humans are involved in these institutions.

      Are there religions where humans aren't involved? If not, your argument is irrelevant.

    137. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Run! Run while you still can! They're out to get us and take our kidneys! AAAAAAUUUGHHH!

    138. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since that information is not contained either in TFA, or in any of the more detailed articles linked from it, I can't help but wonder how you know it.

      For one who claims to be "no fan of Monsanto", you certainly seem to be putting a lot of energy into defending them in this thread. I've noticed in the past that stories on GMO seem to attract a hard core of well informed rebutters who work quite tirelessly, considering they claim to have no personal stake in it.

      And my conclusion is that Monsanto has a pretty well developed astroturf machine.

    139. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      The point is, it's the humans not the religion that are the cause of the problems.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    140. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Cryacin · · Score: 2

      Serious question. Why shouldn't Monsanto be sued for contaminating the general soy genetics by cross pollenation?

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    141. Re:Monsanto takes .. by martinux · · Score: 1

      Theology is a thing of unreason altogether, an edifice of assumption and dreams, a superstructure without a substructure. - Ambrose Bierce
      Religions are conclusions for which the facts of nature supply no major premises. - Ambrose Bierce
      Camels and Christians receive their burdens kneeling. - Ambrose Bierce

      Understanding where religion comes from illuminates why religion is as petty, evil and self-serving as the worst of humanity. The only way one can come to the conclusion that faith-based reasoning is good is if one fails to critically examine it.

    142. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Kirth · · Score: 1

      Just as much.

      We know at least since 1851 what kind of utter idiocy patents are:

      "The granting [of] patents ‘inflames cupidity', excites fraud, stimulates men to run after schemes that may enable them to levy a tax on the public, begets disputes and quarrels betwixt inventors, provokes endless lawsuits...The principle of the law from which such consequences flow cannot be just." -- The Economist, 1851

      --
      "The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
    143. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Kirth · · Score: 1

      The patent system sucks balls. Monsanto could not do this if there wasn't a patent system.

      --
      "The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
    144. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I completely agree with gstoddart. I am waiting for a bunch of Organic farmers to sue Monsanto for infecting their crops, which I think they should have a legal case for. How can a patent protect something that Monsanto cannot itself prevent the proliferation of?

    145. Re:Monsanto takes .. by fuzznutz · · Score: 1

      Are you suggesting that "nature" filled a sprayer tank with glyphosate and applied it to his crops?

      Are you suggesting that spraying Roundup is a patent infringement? Did Monsanto patent that too?

    146. Re:Monsanto takes .. by DedTV · · Score: 1

      It's likely going to be a bad year for farmers as Monsanto's patent on Soybeans expires next year so this is their last chance to make a cash grab.
      Plus, arguments for the Bowman case in the Supreme Court are supposed to start next week and there's a tiny chance that SCOTUS could extend patent exhaustion to self-replicating tech; preventing them from replacing it with some new tweak to start the whole mess all over again.

    147. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      Blind faith is useless and is fair game for criticism. Plenty of organistations believe stupid or even hateful things. My sole point is that religion isn't especially different in that regard. Capitalism, free marrketeers, libertarians, conservatives, socialists, communists ... all have done harm based on dogma and unreason.

      The common factor is ... people.

      And there I feel I'll have to end it, as I'm just repeating myself. Adios, and best wishes.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    148. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Monsanto are greedy asshats, and their product is contaminating other people's farms, and then they sue because your crop has their gene in it when you did nothing at all.

      The fundamental problem here is not Monsanto. What they are doing, as it has been reported, is clearly wrong, and is a problem for society that needs to be solved. However, the more fundamental problem here is the inability of US legal professionals to understand ethics and to act ethically.

      Legal professionals are in a position of conflict of interest with respect to the nature, scope, and form of the legal system.

      It is a clear violation of reasonable conduct rights arising under the 9th and 10th Amendments to interfere with a person whose crop contains these genes as a result of the wind or bees spreading them. In other words, the legal professionals are suing people who haven't done anything wrong.

      Suing people who haven't done anything wrong creates artificial demand for the services of legal professionals as a class within society, because it makes everyone else scared of the law, and people who are scared look for somebody to protect them. The only people who can protect people from a complex, confusing, and even contradictory legal system are legal professionals.

      As such, there is a conflict of interest here for the legal profession: ignoring the 9th Amendment obligation to recognize reasonable conduct allows them to increase their long term pay and job security.

      If we merely fix the Monsanto problem, we will have done nothing to fix the underlying ethics cancer in the US legal profession.

    149. Re:Monsanto takes .. by anguirus.x · · Score: 1

      You mean if I made something with my own materials in my own house I can't violate any patents?

      I think you just found a loophole around every single patent there is out there.

      Just don't take whatever it is outside and try to sell it or rent it to anyone and you're usually fine, this is true.

    150. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I am still waiting for a single citation for Monsanto suing anyone for unintentional infringement.

      Then the gentleman posting here can satisfy your requirements.

    151. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Build a house on my land and see what happens to it.

      What happens to it might depend on whether or not you're Israeli.

    152. Re:Monsanto takes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if the house builder has friends in the local courts, it will be your house getting bulldozed. I saw shit like this when I lived in TN. a certain car company would park overstock on farmers' fields, if the farmers even looked at the cars wrong, that car company would go after them, sue them, and get their land.

  2. New World Odor by jameshuckabone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is it that today almost every story on Slashdot is about our frog-in-slowly-heated-water society.

    --
    http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    1. Re:New World Odor by Verloc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why is it that today almost every story on Slashdot is about our frog-in-slowly-heated-water society.

      Because every once in a while the temperature rises a little more than usual and the frog notices.

    2. Re:New World Odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mmmmm. Frog soup.

    3. Re:New World Odor by mister_playboy · · Score: 0

      New World Odor

      LOL... Monsanto's legal extortion certainly smells like a bunch of shit to me.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    4. Re:New World Odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next time you go buy a loaf of bread, ask yourself if Monsanto had it's hand in any of the ingredients. In fact, why don't you ask that about EVERYTHING you eat!

      There is a reason you should be concerned. If you don't recognise it, you're either willfully ignorant, naive, or a shill.

    5. Re:New World Odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frogs notice temperature change much more accurately than most animals. They will NEVER sit in water until they boil, it is a myth.

    6. Re:New World Odor by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Why is it that today almost every story on Slashdot is about our frog-in-slowly-heated-water society.

      Because its hard to avoid this nowadays, doh. (
      And "odor" is a polite and mild term: to be precise, one should use "stench" for how the today's world smells like... ummm... or is it my socks only?)

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    7. Re:New World Odor by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Funny

      And they jump out of buckets of water anyway. I work with frogs. If the tupperware lids aren't closed, they'll jump out, even in the refrigerator.

      ... this is not the first time I've realized I have a fucking weird job.

    8. Re:New World Odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like animal cruelty to me.

    9. Re:New World Odor by Omestes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Next time you go buy a loaf of bread, ask yourself if Monsanto had it's hand in any of the ingredients. In fact, why don't you ask that about EVERYTHING you eat!

      Because we're legally not allowed to know if we have GMO in our foods.... Because it helps consumer choice.

      Ahem.

      This would be funny, if when this was a story here awhile back, most people supporting limited choice as a means of increasing choice.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    10. Re:New World Odor by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      Is there a law against putting a "contains no GMO" label food if it provably doesn't?

      Anyway, even if there is, it is still bullshit. Only a handful or two GM versions of plant species is in production. Check the ingredients, and if any of those is there and the product is not organic, you can assume it contains GMO. It really isn't that hard to tell.

    11. Re:New World Odor by buss_error · · Score: 1

      Thanks! Your post made me laugh after a very stressful and worrisome day.

      --
      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    12. Re:New World Odor by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Is there a law against putting a "contains no GMO" label food if it provably doesn't?

      Yes. Which I find bizarre. I don't actually think that transgenic GMO is bad for you, mind, it might be in the long term, but I doubt it. I'm more concerned with actually allowing consumer choice. If people don't want it, that is fine, even if it is potentially stupid and misguided.

      My only actually concern with GMO is enviromental, and ecological. We already see weeds and pests developing resistance, and further there is proof that GMO plants can cross pollinate with wild varieties. Between these two, I see possible scenarios that are somewhat like our over use of antibiotics in medicine. In the long term, we might just developing better weeds and pests.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    13. Re:New World Odor by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I wonder the same but I would doubt that there is a law against it. It seems more likely that the companies making products without GMO ingredients feel that making that change to packaging won't bring in enough additional business to justify the redesign. I noticed a label on one brand of bread a while back stating that it contains no HFC (High Fructose Corn syrup) and wondered if it was a case "Asbestos Free" until I looked at the other breads and wondered why all the others have HFC as an ingredient.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    14. Re:New World Odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because we're legally not allowed to know if we have GMO in our foods....

      I see "non-GMO" labels on food all the time. If it doesn't have one, you can look them up here:
      http://www.nongmoproject.org/

      What do you think it says about your proposed law if you need to lie in order to promote it? Who modded this guy up anyways?

    15. Re:New World Odor by Omestes · · Score: 1

      What do you think it says about your proposed law if you need to lie in order to promote it?

      Or, you know, I could have been mistaken? Oh no, there must be malice, really? Your view of humanity must be a bit depressing.

      I'm not going to apologize, since you accuse me of lying. I was wrong, I got it confused for the movement to supress labeling things as having GMO, as opposed to the opposite. Actually, rereading my post, I wasn't wrong. We're not allowed to have a label saying "this product contains GMO ingredients".

      Food should have comprehensive labels. Instead of allowing companies to say that they don't use certain practices, companies that do should be forced to label their products. It is food, which, last I checked, is pretty much the most important thing in the world. I still get mad every time I buy milk from BGH free cows, and have to read the ridiculous disclaimer put on their just to protect certain large diary groups.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    16. Re:New World Odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, you know, I could have been mistaken? Oh no, there must be malice, really? Your view of humanity must be a bit depressing.

      Willful ignorance must be working out well for you, since you can hide behind good intentions without remorse. Why would I scorn humanity like I do an internet bullshitter when large groups of people (like CA prop 37) give me reason to cheer?

      Food should have comprehensive labels. Instead of allowing companies to say that they don't use certain practices, companies that do should be forced to label their products. It is food, which, last I checked, is pretty much the most important thing in the world. I still get mad every time I buy milk from BGH free cows, and have to read the ridiculous disclaimer put on their just to protect certain large diary groups.

      The hypocrisy there is just staggering. But thanks for letting me know what is the most important thing in the world.

      Maybe you shouldn't be suggesting laws until after taking the time to review your facts?

    17. Re:New World Odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [Citation needed]

    18. Re:New World Odor by Omestes · · Score: 1

      The hypocrisy there is just staggering. But thanks for letting me know what is the most important thing in the world.

      Live without food for a month. Good luck.

      And what hypocrisy? That things should be labeled? That labeling a negative quantity isn't as useful as labeling a positive one? Perhpas your using a nonstandard definition of hypocrisy. Perhaps you should share it.

      Why would I scorn humanity like I do an internet bullshitter when large groups of people (like CA prop 37) give me reason to cheer?

      So restricting information is a good thing? Is this only true in food labeling, or should we restrict all information that would allow consumers to make choices (intelligent or not)?

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    19. Re:New World Odor by Pav · · Score: 1

      Weeds are "any plant other than the one you're growing", and roundup ready canola has already become a difficult weed particularly because its seeds can be dominant for many years. I know here in Australia ryegrass has supposedly "adapted" to roundup, but at least the way it was reported, examples of this plant became instantly and completely resistant. This hasn't been the pattern with any other weed I've heard of ie. gradual resistance over generations. I'm not sure what the genetic mechanism for "roundup readiness" is, but this does sound suspicious.

    20. Re:New World Odor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hypocrisy is complaining about mandatory pointless non-BGH labels but supporting mandatory pointless GMO labels.

      But it looks like you can't tell the difference between restricting information and not forcing someone to publish something, so I'm pretty much talking to a wall now.

  3. Monsanto = Umbrella Corporation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Need I say more?
    No, I'm not saying they're going to bring about the zombie apocalypse, but what I am saying is that they're as evil as the Umbrella Corporation, and perhaps more so.

    1. Re:Monsanto = Umbrella Corporation by hoboroadie · · Score: 3

      Monsanto has control of most of the non-GMO seed market as well. If you want heirloom seed, chances are you'll be getting it from a subsidiary.
      A lot fucking scarier than Bill Gates.

      --
      They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
    2. Re:Monsanto = Umbrella Corporation by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      If you want heirloom seed

      Are you getting heirloom confused with hybrid?

    3. Re:Monsanto = Umbrella Corporation by bbelt16ag · · Score: 1

      if bill is truly a humanitatiran and wants to save this world he should help buy this company up. I want him to break it into a thousand piecies.

      --
      NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
    4. Re:Monsanto = Umbrella Corporation by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Hyperbole much?

      In the scale of real world evil, Microsoft doesn't even rank. We have famine, disease, and genocide... and Microsoft?

      Who really cares? Sure, they do crappy things, but its just silly software? Does anyone actually give a shit, besides /.?

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    5. Re:Monsanto = Umbrella Corporation by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

      No.

      --
      They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  4. I don't know much about this stuff... by SomePgmr · · Score: 1

    Is their engineered seed so much better that it's worth the 300% price hikes?

    1. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The price of gas has risen more than that between 1995 (when I started driving, $.93/gal) and today ($4.19/gal). Not defending Monsanto, just putting this in perspective.

    2. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by dbc · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, it does pencil out. Hybred and genetically engineered seeds do produce signficantly higher yields, and in some cases reduce need for pestricides. They reduce risk by being drought resistant. Seed cost is just one of many costs of getting a crop into the ground and getting the harvest out. Fuel, fertilizer, pesticide, herbicide, land rent (paid or opportunity cost) and labor all need to be accounted for.

      Hybred seeds have been around for ages, and with maize, there is natural intellecual property protection, because the hybred is 'unstable', that is, you can't replant the seeds from the crop that you grow because the resulting maize plants are sterile and/or deformed. Of course, they can be stabalized with a final cross, but seed producers don't do that. Soy beans, OTOH, can not be produced in an unstable hybred. So a farmer can keep part of his bean crop and plant that as seed next year. With the advent of genetically modified soy seed, Monsanto quit *selling* soy seed, and started *licensing* soy seed.

    3. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by g1powermac · · Score: 2

      Here's the thing with their seed. It does one of two things generally: one produces an insecticide internally so if any insect eats the plant, it dies. This is specifically the BT variant GMO. The other is resistant to Monsanto's other product, Roundup. That allows farmers to spray everything with this herbicide and everything is suppose to die except the resistant stuff. That's the marketed advantages. There's nothing about making the product better for _consumers_ outside of seemingly reduced prices via more production (and that is debated depending on who you talk to). There's also nothing on making the plants stronger and more resistant towards adverse conditions outside of borer insects which are targeted by the BT variant GMO.

    4. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by sunking2 · · Score: 1

      The price of seeds is pretty insignificant compared to the rest of hte operation. Which is why they have to use stats in %, because if they really told you the price you'd say, 'so what?'

    5. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      As a consumer, less bug parts in my beans sounds like a good thing.

    6. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by g1powermac · · Score: 1

      Hybrids are not the same thing as GMO crops. The hybrids are crosses from varying stable (ish) lines to produce a set of offspring that are generally more vigorous than the parent lines but generally that vigor doesn't survive further breeding. It's called heterosis. It's a mostly natural thing and doesn't involve direct recoding of the genes. The GMOs on the other hand, are directly changed and only provide very certain benefits. This is usually only borer resistant (BT GMOs) or herbicide resistant (Roundup Ready). The GMO's do not provide any other advantage.

    7. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Only if you don't want a good natural source of protein.

    8. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by smegfault · · Score: 1

      I think I prefer having bug parts in my food to having Roundup(R)(tm) remains. I mean, bugs are 100% natural and organic.

    9. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by smegfault · · Score: 1

      Agreed, it would have to be offset against all the other costs (like fuel prices) and the (supposedly) increased yield per acre, otherwise this big percentage thing is pretty meaningless.

    10. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      genetically engineered seeds do produce signficantly higher yields

      Citation needed. That's been the sales pitch, but what is the reality?

      http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agriculture/our-failing-food-system/genetic-engineering/failure-to-yield.html

      Genetically altered seeds are primarily targeted to 1) allow for heavy herbicide use or 2) be their own pesticide. They generally allow for heavier use of chemicals (also a sales point). Either way, you'll be eating pesticides or herbicides. Don't believe that these are innocuous to humans.

    11. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >bugs are 100% natural and organic.

      So are cyanide, ricin and ebola.

    12. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The plants grown by Monsanto seeds dont produce new seeds. The can't reproduce. It benefits Monsanto because the farmers have to go back to them. for new seeds The real danger is that monsanto have too much power.

    13. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by dbc · · Score: 1

      Yes, all true. And not in conflict with anything I said. Pretty much any GMO seed is also a hybred seed. Don't underestimate the economic value of corn-borer resistant maize or Roundup Ready soy beans.

    14. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by dbc · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Citation? How about looking at the crop yields from the Iowa farm my great-grandfather homesteaded. The citation is my brother's income tax return, he manages the farm now. Or the yields being produced by the tenants on my father-in-law's Minnesota farm. Next question?

      And let me educate you on the food chain. Yellow corn is a feed grain, not a food grain. You don't eat it. It is eaten by the animals that you eat.

      I agree chemical over-use is a problem. I'm more concerned about chemicals in the ground water and run-off. As far as that goes, borer-resistant maize allows a reduction in pesticide application for the control of borers. Another valid concern with GMO varieties is the creation of 'super-pests' that evolve immunity to GMO features. Iowa, at least, requires you to plant 20% "refuge rows" -- that is 20% of every field planted to, say, a borer-resistant variety, must be planted with a non-resistant variety so that the borer moths don't evolve immunity. Who came up with the 20% number, I don't know, I sure has heck hope it is right. If you're going to worry about something, worry about something real, not something made up.

      And I don't defend Monsanto. Just trying to inject a few facts into the discussion. GMO crop seeds do make business sense to the farmers, or they would not be used. Do you honestly believe that people that run a business involving a multi-million dollar capital investment can't do the math?

    15. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Poisons accumulate up the food chain...10x or more in feedlot stock...as you said, worry about something real.

    16. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      No, lipophilic, non-degradable compounds accumulate in the food chain. The pesticides used today do not, we have actually learned something from DDT et al.

    17. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you honestly believe that people that run a business involving a multi-million dollar capital investment can't do the math?

      Yes, I dare say most /.ers believed that. "Managers are idiots" is one of the most prominent group meme here after all.

    18. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by peppepz · · Score: 2

      Citation? How about looking at the crop yields from the Iowa farm my great-grandfather homesteaded. The citation is my brother's income tax return, he manages the farm now. Or the yields being produced by the tenants on my father-in-law's Minnesota farm. Next question?

      How about some statistics instead of anecdotal experience? In order to show how GM crops improve yelds, Monsanto themselves provide statistics on their own web site; we can be certain that the ones they've chosen aren't biased against GM seeds. Still, for GM corn, they only tout a 5% average increase in 10 years in developed countries "except Australia" (however, in that case they don't quantify the negative yeld impact, who knows why).

      For me, being completely ignorant about agriculture, hearing "GM seeds improve yelds a lot" is a kind of information. Hearing "GM seeds improved corn yelds in developed countries by about 0.5% per year, except in Australia where they had a negative impact over yelds", and reading that on the very web site of Monsanto, is a richer information.

    19. Re:I don't know much about this stuff... by ideonexus · · Score: 1

      Incorrect. There are plenty of GMOs engineered for higher yields and better nutritional value. GMOs single-handedly saved papaya crops. Blood rice holds the promise of eliminating malnutrition in parts of Asia. GMO salmon will make fish farming more viable and reduce stresses on salmon in the wild.

      Hate on Monsanto all you want, but hating on GMOs is anti-science and, even worse, it's killing people. Children have starved to death in Africa because leaders there refused to accept food aid from the United States because organic farmers told them the grains were "Frankenfoods" that would kill their children. GMO Salmon took over a decade to get approved because of public protest. Blood rice is still failing to get to the people who need it most because of "frankenfood" rhetoric.

      Fun Fact: Organic Farmers are capitalists too. They have the same greedy motivations Monsanto has to spread disinformation in support of their profits. Stop listening to any of these people and start looking to the science.

      --
      i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
  5. What can we DO? by anthony_greer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am sure most people are aware of and angry about monsanto's practices and products, but I am tired of just being angry and talking to my friends who all agree...what can we do about it? Even the progressive wonderland of Ca cant get a simple GMO labling law passed, is there anything anyone can DO to change it?

    Letters to Congress - HAH, they are paid for already.
    Stop buying their product - Cant, no way to tell what it is in...
    Go Organic: and pay $15 / Lb for fruit at Whole Paycheck, er uh Foods? no thanks...

    So what can we DO?

    1. Re:What can we DO? by kheldan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      what can we do?

      Surround Monsanto's corporate headquarters, drag all the top execs out, cut their heads off, stick them on pikes as a warning to all other corporations?

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    2. Re:What can we DO? by lesincompetent · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'll pick you up at nine next monday morning ~9am.

    3. Re:What can we DO? by dbc · · Score: 2

      What exactly concerns you about GMO grains?

    4. Re:What can we DO? by g1powermac · · Score: 1

      Albeit not a practical solution for people with no land or time, but growing food yourself is definitely a way to make sure it ain't GMO and considerably cheaper than even non-organic produce. Even with people who have really limited land can produce quite a bit if they have enough determination. Check out these guys: http://urbanhomestead.org/ Of course living in California with their great growing climate really helps, but it's still possible in more harsh climates.

    5. Re:What can we DO? by femtobyte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps the fact that their deployment is tied to concentrating control over the world food supply in the hands of a single viciously greedy corporation?

    6. Re:What can we DO? by Brynath · · Score: 1

      Except for the fact that the farmers being sued in the article, didn't plant Monsanto seed. They are being sued due to having their plants pollinated by plants that were not in their control. What is to say that Monsanto doesn't next go after the home owners who plant food in their own gardens for the same thing?

    7. Re:What can we DO? by anthony_greer · · Score: 1

      Look around you? almost everyone in teh USA is carrying an extra 10-20 Lbs or more, look at the statistics, this wasn't the case a few decades ago, and the biggest change since the 80s? GMOs and fake sugar type stuff... It could be correlation without causality, but I have read (albeit a few years ago) that in Europe they dont allow GMO and don't have the obesity issues.

      There are a lot of other calms on the net about this stuff and its other dangers as well...

    8. Re:What can we DO? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 3, Informative

      No doubt you're on a list now. Better watch out for drones. But you are correct.

    9. Re:What can we DO? by siddesu · · Score: 2

      That won't help, they'll just grow themselves more heads. You need a political reform that would stop the interpretation of "right to petition" as an opportunity to buy the system wholesale.

    10. Re:What can we DO? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I live in Kansas and I for one have very little sympathy for these farmers. They hoist these corporations up on their shoulders and carry them to Washington to turn around and stiff their communities. Small towns all over the Midwest are evaporating because the citizens are inexplicably voting to peel back all of the liberal reforms from the Great Depression that protected their livelihoods. Now, all their kids are fleeing to the cities without the slightest notion of returning. There are small towns where the largest source of income is Social Security!

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    11. Re:What can we DO? by g1powermac · · Score: 1

      Most home owners don't grow the species that are currently GMO'd outside of corn, and usually home owners just grow sweet corn. I've yet to see much home owner interest growing soy beans, sugar beets, canola, cotton, etc.

    12. Re:What can we DO? by femtobyte · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Blaming this specifically on GMOs is a bit of a stretch. The issue is more that, while both Europe and the US control their food supplies through massive government subsidies, the US subsidies are strongly focused on supporting pure corn/soy monocultures (instead of subsidizing the broad variety of regional products necessary to support healthy diets). GMOs do contribute to this cycle, by making it easier than ever to produce huge volumes of a very limited number of crops (instead of supporting a slightly lower volume but more varied food supply).

    13. Re:What can we DO? by juliohm · · Score: 1

      CAKE! Everybody loves cake!

      --
      Julio Henrique Morimoto juliohm@gmail.com
    14. Re:What can we DO? by WWJohnBrowningDo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What can we do about it?

      Invalidate all genetic patents?

      I don't get how /. can be so united against software patents and yet don't see the simple yet effective solution over GMOs.

    15. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about the AgriBusiness lobbyists. The problem is the House of Representatives. There are too many representatives with farm districts and the small farmers who are getting dicked over aren't the ones that write the big donation checks. It's big-time AgriBusiness. This is why high fructose corn syrup is in like 90% of the food on the market -- sugar tariffs make saccharose cost twice as much in the States as elsewhere. Farm subsides allow us to grow more maize than we need while price floors prevent it from becoming nearly worthless. Ethanol is a terrible fuel and almost all of our gasoline is diluted with it. AgriBusiness has had the House of Representatives under their thumb since FDR originally implemented farm subsides (I don't have a problem with that, there was a national emergency at the time -- the problem is the subsides didn't go away when the crisis did).

      Here's what you can do: You can tell people that the U.S. Constitution is outdated trash and needs to be replaced with a parliamentary system. It won't do much, but until it's no longer taboo to suggest that our system of government is ineffective and fosters corruption, nothing can really be done. Taboos must be broken with great frequency to be removed. The U.S. House of Representatives is at the center of most of this country's problems -- a bill can't get passed through it without every committee member involved in the bill getting their (un)fair share of pork attached to it.

      [AC b/c I modded]

    16. Re:What can we DO? by smegfault · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that sweet corn isn't in fact a GMO?

    17. Re:What can we DO? by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      When we can start?

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    18. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hippies tell us that the GMO Maize is linked to immunodeficiencies.

    19. Re:What can we DO? by g1powermac · · Score: 1

      No, it also has been GMO'd but only fairly recently from what I can find. The majority of GMO corn is not sweet corn.

    20. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You and your friends can grow your own food and swap amongst each other. The scary thing in the US (I'm not from there) is that authorities are trying to stop people from trading or serving up their own home grown foods. As much as people of your country have been taught to hate the Cubans, they have a great urban farming culture. Learn from them.

      Also, be prepared to spend more on food, and less on other things. Quality air, water, food and land are critical for humans, yet we seem to have successfully lowered those below other distractions.

    21. Re:What can we DO? by PRMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given the way my weight dropped when I quit eating carbs (70 pounds in 9 months and I was only 238 to begin with), I would say it's the high volume of carbs in packaged foods. One person said, "shop the edges of the supermarket" and they were right. The milk, cheese, meat and produce are at the edges (even the nuts are typically by the alcohol on one side). The ENTIRE center of the store is virtually nothing but empty carbs in various forms.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    22. Re:What can we DO? by buybuydandavis · · Score: 1

      Here's what you can do: You can tell people that the U.S. Constitution is outdated trash and needs to be replaced ...

      It was replaced a long time ago. Hasn't been operative since at least FDR.

    23. Re:What can we DO? by PRMan · · Score: 2

      I live in California and I can tell you that the food I grow is pretty expensive compared to the market. I constantly have to fertilize the soil with Miracle Grow or something to grow anything, and then rabbits, snails, coyotes, birds, rats, etc. eat it before I do. Whatever little is left, I might as well just buy the produce compared to those prices ($20 Miracle Grow + fences, etc. for 10 tomatoes, 5 strawberries and 10 yellow squash--pretty expensive compared to the 99 Cents store or Costco, who both have excellent produce, much better than the supermarkets).

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    24. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The plants they produce cant reproduce.

    25. Re:What can we DO? by g1powermac · · Score: 1

      At a really small scale like that, I can understand. However, with a bit of money invested in improving the soil via added organic matter and some permanent stuff like fences, you can easily get a decent crop that doesn't cost much after the first year with the added improvements. But, if you're like me, there's never an end to the improvements and you always end up with way more money spent in the gardens than what its worth . . . ;-)

    26. Re:What can we DO? by Aguazul2 · · Score: 2

      Here in Peru, the government knows they've upset someone because the main transport routes are barricaded and there are crowds throwing stones. Same with France. Seems like US authorities/government is like a child who always gets his way. It's going to be tough to crack, but it needs to learn its place -- subordinate to the will of the people. It's going to be a lot messier with all those guns around -- and maybe the government likes it that way. The more dangerous it is to protest, the less people will do it. But no-one outside the country has a chance to change anything -- only you folks.

    27. Re:What can we DO? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      In some cases, grow your own.

      Victory Gardens in WWII produced vast amounts of food.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    28. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and the biggest change since the 80s?

      Internet, video games, and the rise of cable TV in every home?

      Or are you saying there's been a miraculous scientific discovery and calories in > calories out != fat?

    29. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like fun. I'll pop the--oh crap. You can't even sit back and watch the show without buying their products!

    30. Re:What can we DO? by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      General concerns you've no doubt heard about a million times aside... Can't we just disagree with their business practices?

    31. Re:What can we DO? by smegfault · · Score: 1

      I think all the selective breeding we've been doing to corn in the past hundreds (if not thousands) of years counts as GMO.

    32. Re: What can we DO? by dfeifer · · Score: 1

      The cake is a lie. ..sorry, couldn't resist.

    33. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even the progressive wonderland of Ca cant get a simple GMO labling law passed, is there anything anyone can DO to change it?

      Try again, labeling laws should be a gimmie.

    34. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no.

      Simply put you don't think, because if you had thought about what you wrote, you wouldn't have posted that idiotic nonsense.

      Selective breeding has never been the same as GMO and it never will be.

    35. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look into the long history of diet. A diet to loose weight used to mean cutting out wheat. That was it. This was considered general knowledge and worked. Now a diet means cutting out fat and most people fail. Almost everything contains wheat these days.

      We didn't evolve eating grains/grass. We evolved as hunter (meat) gathers (fruits, nuts, veggies).

    36. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what can we do?

      Surround Monsanto's corporate headquarters, drag all the top execs out, cut their heads off, stick them on pikes as a warning to all other corporations?

      Sounds good to me!!

    37. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am pretty sure the top execs have been systematically replaced over the years by GMO Corn. Our new mutant Corn Overlords have been doing a decent job, you should try phoning them with complaints, they are all ears.

    38. Re:What can we DO? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      And wave, like *this*.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    39. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I shop at Whole Foods all the time. Their selection is huge. There are always things on sale. If you buy most things on sale you actually get really great bang/buck.

    40. Re:What can we DO? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      California could have gotten the labeling bill passed if the proposition hadn't been so punitive. If the bill had said, "somewhere in the ingredient list, it must mention GMO" then it likely would have passed. As it was, the proposition was written to make the packaging look as undesirable as possible. And that's even before the ambiguity of the law.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    41. Re:What can we DO? by Alien+Being · · Score: 1

      Are you threatening me? I AM THE GREAT CORNHOLIO. I modify the corn with my bunghole. YOU WILL EAT THE CORN. Then you will join me in my quest to conquer all the bungholes. Bungholio!!!

    42. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flounder, is that you?

    43. Re:What can we DO? by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Internet, video games, and the rise of cable TV in every home?

      I'm not agreeing with the OP. I think he is pretty much totally wrong. But, the internet, video games, and cable TV are mostly ubiquitous in the developed world, while the obesity epidemic isn't. This sort of points to it not being an actual problem. Its like the video games and gun violence debate, which completely ignores the fact that the US isn't the world.

      I'm guessing it is a more complex and deeper problem, but our stupid love of sugar is probably to blame. Not just HFCS, which may or not be bad (haven't seen anything conclusive either way), but the fact that it is almost impossible to buy food that isn't overly sweet or sweetened anymore. As a person without a sweet tooth, this makes shopping hell.

      Further the quality of our food has declined. When was the last time you had a good tomato; one that isn't pasty, sweet, bland, and completely lacking in acidity? Or sweet corn? It was never sugar sweet, but now it is. They used to be my favorite produce, but now I can't eat them. Hell, buying meat is a PitA now, since all of our birds have gotten flabby, while all of our pork has so little fat that it is almost impossible to cook. Unless your willing to pay out the ass, our food sucks.

      Well, I also have friends who eat a meal a day at fast food restaurants, and very few of my friends in my age group (early to mid-30s) can actually cook. Not cooking (i.e. being aware of ingredients), and eating shit, are probably our number one cause of obesity. That and we all sit in offices, on our asses, all day. Hell, I try to eat well, and exercise, and the only reason I'm not obese is because my metabolism is better than most. And even so, I went from 6'4" and 160-70 pounds, to 200 once I hit 30, which is a bit high.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    44. Re:What can we DO? by andydread · · Score: 1

      The free market will fix it. All we need are consumers to vote with their wallet and decide if they want to buy Monsanto based products or avoid them....wait...

    45. Re:What can we DO? by TFAFalcon · · Score: 1

      Have you tried using compost instead of Miracle Grow? My father uses it on his garden and gets more tomatoes then he can eat.

    46. Re:What can we DO? by Cyfun · · Score: 0

      I like how this comment was rated +5 Insightful and not Funny.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, dot slashes YOU!
    47. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what can we do?

      Surround Monsanto's corporate headquarters, drag all the top execs out, cut their heads off, stick them on pikes as a warning to all other corporations?

      A fine idea. But here's a better one that won't get you into trouble. Instead of talking about Monsanto, name drop those making these decisions within the company. Let's start with the CEO and principal shareholders (BIll and Wendy Gates through one of their "charities" for example).

    48. Re:What can we DO? by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      I'll pick you up at nine next monday morning ~9am.

      With the bail money?

    49. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do I want to eat stuff that has been made resistant against the most powerful poisons for a purpose?

    50. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well ... that escalated quickly.

    51. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you near here?

      The northwesternmost building in that frame is the "A" building. That's the executive office building.

      The rest of the buildings on campus are labeled through the letter "R". There are a lot of buildings. You can shuttle between them by the on-campus bus service. And watch out! The "J" building has paramilitary security with assault rifles. It's the datacenter. The loading dock is in "C" building. Good luck!

      No, I don't know which building is which, other than the "A" building that sits at the end of the circle drive.

      Also, you're likely to get shot. Expect the government to actually try to protect those slimebags. They're richer than you are, and obviously more worthy of government help.

      If you do get all the way to Hugh Grant, tell him he has the same name as an actor that got caught with a hooker back when that was a scandal. I'm sure he'll love that.

      (Disclaimer for the humorless and the FBI: This post is a joke. Go away.)

    52. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mosanto should go back and sue ALL the estates of people that died of
      Asbestos Cancer claiming that they provided a disease that they normally
      may not have contacted.

      Worth a shot now isn't boys?

    53. Re:What can we DO? by eth1 · · Score: 1

      what can we do?

      Surround Monsanto's corporate headquarters, drag all the top execs out, cut their heads off, stick them on pikes as a warning to all other corporations?

      IMO, it's only a matter of time before some small farmer/group of farmers that have had their livelihoods ruined do something like this.

      I'd never convict them...

    54. Re:What can we DO? by berashith · · Score: 1

      I never have looked at the cost of any of the food that I have grown. I only look at the fact that I put food on the table and didnt drive to the store to get it. The constant improvements are an enjoyable way to spend time, so I only look at those as home maintenance budget items. I bet some of the stuff is expensive, but I had a volunteer squash last year that only required not running over it with a lawnmower, I have had years of self planted kale, and several pumpkins a year for jack o lanterns that also require no attention at all. The kids have a great time with it too.

    55. Re:What can we DO? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      You know a pellet rifle to dispatch the critters does wonders. Especially rabbits since they don't like the smell of blood plus you get to eat some free range garden fed rabbit.

      Also what kind of soil do you have were you need to apply $20 worth of Miracle Grow to get anything to grow at all. Have you looked into getting a soil PH test done to see if you have soil that is too acidic or too alkali and then taking corrective measures. I would assume that your soil is too alkali if it is having nutrient retention problems and elemental sulfur will resolve that but it takes a few years to be effective so in the mean time a quick cheap solution is to dump a few gallons of cheap vinegar on the soil a little while before you plant. If your soil is too acidic (which may be the problem with repeated applications of miracle grow) mix in some ash from a fire pit, barbecue, fireplace, or bonfire. If it is not that your soil may need to have some iron added to it as that also can have an impact on nutrient uptake. I also compost a bunch of stuff in the fall after the first frost and till it into the soil, old fish parts, coffee grounds, barbecue ash, leaves, grass clippings (last mowing of the year when I cut it short so I don't have to deal with the thatch that would otherwise form), etc to keep the soil full of nutrients. Also I don't have to toss that stuff in the trash to get it hauled off to the dump so there is another bonus for the environment.

      After I corrected my soil I have had bumper crops out of my tiny garden (15'x20') where from 4 tomato plants and 4 pepper plants, and some fresh herbs I can make several gallons of chile, have plenty of dried crushed peppers for the year, and make a couple gallons of tomato sauce. That doesn't include the one yellow squash and one zucchini that each produce a grocery bag full the giant heads of broccoli and cauliflower I get (seriously even cut in half they feed a family of 4), or the sweet corn that basically becomes several meals in it's self as we have so much of it.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    56. Re:What can we DO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't it bigger that the execs. I hate to say this... as I hate the corporate greed more than the average canuck.

      The issue is investors demand profit, exec members under pressure come up with less than savy methods to increase profits. Board Members are sold that this is the best solution, and the world goes around one more time.

      We need to take government control of these corporations and hold them accountable first to the customers they service, and the betterment of society. If they do their job right then there will be profits left over to share with the investors, but there should be a lot more effort to get there.

      The union pensions won't have that though, will they. Their members demand profits.

    57. Re:What can we DO? by kheldan · · Score: 1

      I immediately noticed that myself. I don't think it's a mistake, I think it's a sign of the times.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    58. Re:What can we DO? by metaforest · · Score: 1

      you are doing it wrong. That is all.

  6. Here come the shills! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cue the GM industry shills who will explain why this is a good thing and the farmers are evil criminals.

    When they aren't astroturfing for the fracking industry they do it for Monsanto.

  7. What about the ACTUAL corn? by superdave80 · · Score: 0

    Here's what I don't get. Monsanto sold the original seeds for the purpose of growing corn. The corn is sold by the farmer. So, apparently the farmer has the right to whatever the seeds produce.

    But then they turn around and claim ownership of the same corn, but only because it is used to plant more crops, rather than selling the corn for consumption. This seems ridiculously inconsistent, and I am amazed that ANY court has ruled in favor of Monsanto.

    It seems that Monsanto screwed up by selling a self replicating product. Maybe they should have thought of a better business model, or written up some type of contract with the farmers for future crop plantings...

    1. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 0

      Saving seed for replanting is not standard farming practice. These guys knew exactly what they were doing.

    2. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by wiredlogic · · Score: 4, Informative

      When you buy GM seed from Monsanto and others you sign a contract agreeing not to hold over seed for replanting. That take care of the legal responsibilities of Monsanto's customers.

      In the case currently heading for the Supreme Court the farmer in question never planted GM seed purchased under contract. He unwittingly acquired GM seeds for use as a second planting by buying leftovers from local silos. Because all the granaries in the country are contaminated with GM seed it is effectively impossible to avoid buying product that doesn't "infringe" on someone's patents. That leaves a well meaning farmer with fields ready to be planted in a bit of a pickle if he doesn't want to pay the Monsanto tax.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    3. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excuse me? Since fucking when is a farmer saving seeds not SOP?

    4. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by mspohr · · Score: 2

      Saving seed for replanting is standard practice in most of the world.
      Only in "developed" countries do we have farmers who have been sold on the idea that they need to buy special "seed".
      In the latest case, the farmer bought grain from the elevator (knowing that it likely would be GMO) and planted it.
      The issue here is that now Monsanto is claiming ownership of the grain after the original farmer sold his crop to the grain elevator then the grain was bought by another farmer and planted.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    5. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by Abstrackt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Saving seed for replanting is not standard farming practice.

      I grew up on a farm and we always saved at least some portion of each year's crop to plant the following year; you're pissing your money away otherwise. I can introduce you to any number of grain, bean or vegetable farmers who will tell you they do the same. Granted, certain varieties from large scale breeders won't grow as well the second year for any number of reasons but seed saving is very much a standard practice.

      --
      They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
    6. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Yes, this will be an interesting case. Patent exhaustion usually makes this sort of thing outside patent coverage.

    7. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So, apparently the farmer has the right to whatever the seeds produce.

      This is where you are wrong. Because when a farmer purchases Monsanto seeds they sign a contract and agree, in writing, not to save and replant seeds. So unless you are arguing that we should no longer have legally enforceable contracts, the rest of your statements make no sense.

      There was at least one case where the farmer did not sign a contract, and instead planted soybeans directly next to his neighbors field, and saved the cross-pollinated beans, planted them again the next year, sprayed them with glyphosate to isolate the GMO gene, saved the seed again, and used it to plant the rest of his acreage. The courts, obviously, found that to be willful patent infringement.

    8. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      > Since fucking when is a farmer saving seeds not SOP?

      Since the invention of hybridization about 100 years ago.

    9. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems that Monsanto screwed up by selling a self replicating product.

      The same could be said of software. Of course, this is why open source will one day eradicate most proprietary software companies (or force them to drastically change the way they do business).

    10. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by smegfault · · Score: 1

      So this would actually have to be dealt with like someone who is handling stolen goods. Right?

    11. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by New+Breeze · · Score: 1

      Go tell that to the Amish. Or any number of other groups that eschew a reliance on some outside entity to enable them to continue their livelyhood.

      Yes, your general big grain farmer isn't doing this, but a lot of the folks selling produce down at your farmers market do.

    12. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by DRJlaw · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the case currently heading for the Supreme Court the farmer in question never planted GM seed purchased under contract. He unwittingly acquired GM seeds for use as a second planting by buying leftovers from local silos.

      Liar, liar, pants on fire. If you were representing the farmer in question, you would be disbarrred, since the farmer has admitted to planting GM seed, intentionally replanting GM seed, and "unwittingly" treating his crop with glycophosphate, which would kill any non-GM soybean. Spefically, as reported by the Court of Appeals (thank Slashdot for the odd character mappings):

      Pioneer Hiâ"Bred (âoePioneerâ) is one of Monsanto's licensed seed producers. â In 2002, Pioneer sold Pioneer Hiâ"Bred® brand seeds containing the Roundup Ready® technology to Bowman, a grower in Knox County, Indiana. â In making the sale, Pioneer required Bowman to execute the âoePioneer Hiâ"Bred Technology Agreement,â which contains language and restrictions identical to the Technology Agreements discussed above. â See J.A. 673. â Bowman purchased from Pioneer and planted seeds containing the Roundup Ready® technology each year, beginning as early as 1999. â Bowman planted Roundup Ready® seeds as his first-crop in each growing season during the years 1999 through 2007. â Consistent with the terms of the Technology Agreement, Bowman did not save seed from his first-crop during any of those years.

      In 1999, Bowman also purchased commodity seed from a local grain elevator, Huey Soil Service, for a late-season planting, or âoesecond-crop.â â Because Bowman considered the second-crop to be a riskier planting, he purchased the commodity seed to avoid paying the significantly higher price for Pioneer's Roundup Ready® seed. â That same year, Bowman applied glyphosate-based herbicide to the fields in which he had planted the commodity seeds to control weeds and to determine whether the plants would exhibit glyphosate resistance. â He confirmed that many of the plants were, indeed, resistant. â In each subsequent year, from 2000 through 2007, Bowman treated his second-crop with glyphosate-based herbicide. â Unlike his first-crop, Bowman saved the seed harvested from his second-crop for replanting additional second-crops in later years. â He also supplemented his second-crop planting supply with periodic additional purchases of commodity seed from the grain elevator. â Bowman did not attempt to hide his activities, and he candidly explained his practices with respect to his second-crop soybeans in various correspondence with Monsanto's representatives.

      Well-meaning farmer? Hardly. He knowlingly adopted his replanting practices and has (so far) lost.

    13. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So this would actually have to be dealt with like someone who is handling stolen goods. Right?

      no...

      Monsanto is treating seed like software licenses, lets say you bought a 1 year licence to an application, and at the end of the 1 year the software wouldnt run anymore without a new licence. This is how Monsanto thinks of their seed, now imagine you just turned the clock back on your computer so the software could continue to work, that would be illegal because you dont own a valid licence. Thats basically what Monsanto thinks if you plant seed after 1 year.

      The problem is, seed isnt software. As wiredlogic points out grain elevators and land/weather arent like computers where everything is cut and dry. Even if an elevator is emptied at the end of the season, there is always bound to be a few kernels of seed left behind, now making the new seasons seed contaminated with a very small percentage of illegally licensed product. Now in this case the elevator wasnt emptied and the leftovers were sold to farmers and they unknowingly planted this unlicensed seed. Monsanto found out and instead of going after the elevator they went after the farmers. Same has happened to farmers that dont use Monsanto seed, but their neighbour does, and the wind has carried the seen onto their land. Monsanto has sued those farmers for having unlicensed product on their land.

      Monsanto has quite a history with unethical behaviour like this. But then again I guess you cant make aprox $1.3 billion in profit every three months without being a little unethical can you?

      UDL

    14. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're talking about about gardening, not farming.

    15. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by PRMan · · Score: 1

      But he then separated the seed, and planted only the GMO seed and then used Roundup on it, showing intent to defraud. Monsanto claims they wouldn't go after a farmer that used their seed unwittingly and didn't use Roundup on it (not that I believe them because they are pure evil in my mind).

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    16. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by dbc · · Score: 1

      What crop? You didn't save corn seed, unless you were growing up on a farm during World War II. Soy beans, yes you probably saved that before the GMO days.

    17. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (thank Slashdot for the odd character mappings)

      and here I've been thinking its just me cos i'm using old iceweasel on debian...slashdot really is an awfully produced website.

    18. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by thaylin · · Score: 1

      No, nothing was stolen. You cant help it that plans pollinate on their own.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    19. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by thaylin · · Score: 1

      It does not matter. If he was not party to the contract then he is not held to it.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    20. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by thaylin · · Score: 1

      This is IF he bought it under contract. If he did not then he is not party to that contract. In addition the courts shout NOT have found that in the later case, otherwise they are patenting nature.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    21. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by Omestes · · Score: 1

      You're talking about about gardening, not farming.

      I grew up on a farm and we always saved at least some portion of each year's crop to plant the following year; you're pissing your money away otherwise. I can introduce you to any number of grain, bean or vegetable farmers who will tell you they do the same

      Reading comprehension fail?

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    22. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by andydread · · Score: 1

      is not standard practice for people cajoled into buying Monsanto products. Traditionally however that is what farmers do. You seem like a shill of some kind to say just garbage....wow.

    23. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by smegfault · · Score: 1
      Agreed, but if the seeds were bought as a left-over batch (in good faith, possibly) it would be like (unknowingly, possibly) handling stolen goods.

      If I buy a video camera from a pawn shop which turns out to be broken, what does that mean for the blockbuster movie I made with that camera?

    24. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by smegfault · · Score: 1

      Argh. STOLEN, not BROKEN.

    25. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by N1AK · · Score: 1

      It isn't that simple. If someone sells me a copy of a piece of software they bought off someone else under a license that forbids resale etc I can't then make 10,000 copies of it and put it on every users pc at work; then when the company who made the software turn up say "I'm not party to the contract there's nothing you can do". It would be even harder to feel sorry for me, if you knew that I was fully aware that the software I was buying shouldn't be re-sold but did it anyway.

      There need to be some protections in place otherwise anyone who could get hold of a handful of Monsanto seeds without being party to a sales contract could use them to produce masses of seeds and sell them without Monsanto's permission. If that is what we want then fine but don't expect anyone to invest in GM food.

    26. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about religious grounds. I think the morons based on religion are supposed to save a certain amount of grain (I think its 40 barrels) in case of hard times due to drought, disease, bugs etc.

    27. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by MasterOfGoingFaster · · Score: 1

      Bad example. If you made all those copies of the software, the vendor would sue you for copyright infringement, not contract violation.

      --
      Place nail here >+
    28. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      You don't know how cheap family farmers can be. The farmer I buy beef from has another plot (440 acres) where here grows field corn and he always keeps a couple of years worth of seed on hand in case of crop failure. He isn't subjected to the fluctuation in price that other farmers are when purchasing seed and doesn't have to pay for the privilege of having someone else store seed for him (the price difference for what he gets for his crop and what other pay at the elevator for seed) since he has space on his cattle farm for that.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    29. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by superdave80 · · Score: 1

      The issue here is that now Monsanto is claiming ownership of the grain after the original farmer sold his crop to the grain elevator...

      And this goes back to my original point. Monsanto is trying to dictate what is done with the corn. If I buy and eat the corn, I'm OK, but if I plant that same corn, suddenly it belongs to Monsanto? Bullshit.

    30. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by superdave80 · · Score: 1

      If someone sells me a copy of a piece of software they bought off someone else under a license that forbids resale etc I can't then make 10,000 copies of it...

      But the duplication of the software is not part of the software itself. With the corn, the ENTIRE PURPOSE of the seeds is to produce more corn (which the farmer is legally entitled to). Monsanto is a stupid company for creating a product that automatically creates more of itself.

    31. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by superdave80 · · Score: 1

      So unless you are arguing that we should no longer have legally enforceable contracts, the rest of your statements make no sense.

      Yeah, I sort of covered that in my post:

      ...or written up some type of contract with the farmers for future crop plantings...

    32. Re:What about the ACTUAL corn? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Sorry to break this to you but the majority of Amish farmers use hybrid seeds for at least some of their crops,

      http://accad.osu.edu/~midori/Game/intro_farm.html

      In fact one of the earliest hybrid seed companies (Yoders) was Amish.

  8. Monsanto is capitalism gone bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Monsanto' marketing is bullshit covering lies and shows just how dumb humans are when it comes to short term thinking...

    A few years after they cornered the market, their product's main feature of reducing the need for pesticides has gone away as more weeds have picked up the round-up resistance. If anything, all the farmers should sue for false marketing as the product is now requiring just as much or more pesticides to kill the superweeds that it has created.

    Any good lawyers out there want to make money?!?!

  9. Kill them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't someone just assassinate the Monsnto execs and be done with it?

    1. Re:Kill them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wont work because there is an endless supply of pigs in the empire. They might even hire more.

  10. ... there will eventually be by drankr · · Score: 1

    a revolution.

    1. Re:... there will eventually be by tiberius0 · · Score: 1

      yes, the wheel will go around again but then we will be in the same shit position we are already in. Why does anyone want that to happen? Revolution, revolution, revolution, ad nausea...

      I would prefer no more revolutions, let's start something not even they can stop from happening. Who's up for starting the singularity and building some robots? This will require some post-singularity thinking if you want to survive the AI revolution but heck it'll be fun stuff to see how many people survive the first and second phases of the AI designed robots designed to wipe out the pesky rodents and other mammals getting in the way of its industrial resource grab and energy resource acquisitions, and you thought having a company acquire your company was messy, just wait til you see what the robots to the labor resource market.

  11. Monsanto profitable but bankrupting farmers. by musixman · · Score: 1

    One word for this: disgusting.

  12. Constant dollars by ChrisMaple · · Score: 0

    Between 1995 and 2011 the prices of gold has risen 310%. In other words, the price of planting an acre has remained constant in terms of real money.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    1. Re:Constant dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Between 1995 and 2011 the prices of gold has risen 310%. In other words, the price of planting an acre has remained constant in terms of real money.

      Sorry Ayn Rand, gold ain't money. It's a commodity just like any other metal. Go cry about it with Ron Paul.

    2. Re:Constant dollars by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      And the price of labor has remained approximately flat, and Compact Flash camera memory has fallen by 99.95%...
      You're an idiot if you think gold is any more "real money" than any other commodity, especially given how strongly the price is driven by the whims of investor speculation.

    3. Re:Constant dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gold is reasonably stable if and only if the economy is stable. At the first sign of peril (like the crisis we're currently in) millions of idiots make the price go through the roof.

    4. Re:Constant dollars by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      /Off Topic but you touched a sore spot.

      "You're an idiot if you think gold is any more "real money" than any other commodity,"

      It's more "real money" than FRN, Euros, Yen or any other fancy paper with printed symbols. Unlike other commodities such as food and petroleum it also has the advantage of being portable, non-perishable and a highly liquid asset..

      One function of money SHOULD BE as a store of value. Fake (fiat) money, does not serve that purpose because governments and central banks always steal that value over time. Holding your money in the form of any bulky (e.g. copper or steel) or perishable(e.g. food or fuel) commodity makes no sense.

    5. Re:Constant dollars by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      And you've hit a sore spot of mine, which is: indefinite hoarding of wealth is not the keystone of a functional society.

      The world's a lot bigger now than it was a century ago --- lots more people, lots more property. Only slightly more gold. That's why making gold a primary monetary standard (i.e. getting rid of fiat currency, using only gold-backed securities) is an absolutely horrible idea --- supply doesn't expand to keep pace with the size of the economy and number of people who need money. I don't think anyone *deserves* to be handed an unending cut in the entire growth of the economy for doing nothing more than hoarding shiny metal in the basement --- if you want your personal wealth to grow with the economy, then get a job (or at the minimum lend your money out to start up other people's jobs). Tying the supply of money to a fixed quantity just results in horrendous stagnation-deflation: why would anyone with money go through the risk/bother of growing the economy, when they could capture all the gains of others just by sitting on their gold?

      Do I think the Fed is the best and most trustworthy steward of national finances? No. Does it destroy my life that my $$ lose 3%/year? Also, no --- and for any that I'll keep around past the end of the month, I have plenty of other options than stacks of paper bills for storing wealth that will more or less keep up with inflation. This includes gold, or I can even hand my $$ back to the government and they'll compensate me for inflation (I-series bonds), or I could buy stocks, or hire a worker in a business, etc. Some of these things contribute to a functioning economy; the gold-hoarding option doesn't.

      A slow, steady, predictable rate of inflation is, basically, a good thing (encouraging spending/growth over indefinite hoarding) --- and far preferable to the massive deflationary spiral of non-fiat-backed currencies. If you don't like how your government is managing the money supply, then work on changing the government (or establishing alternate fiat money supplies) rather than pushing for the quack cure of gold-backed economics.

  13. Great business model! by kawabago · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Develop and patent gene. Release gene into wild. Sue hapless farmers who's crops are infected with Monsanto's patented jumping genes. Soon no one will be able to grow anything without a multinational giving consent and taking a big cut. That is a world I don't want to live in. It's needs to stop right now!

    1. Re:Great business model! by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 0

      Farmers do not save seed for replanting. Unless of course there's a good reason to do so, such as getting monsanto's product for free.

    2. Re:Great business model! by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      That business model goes to other industries too. We are a fertile field for memes like the music and stories from movies. And if we try to do what is in our nature to do, like spreading that meme in any way, we got sued or forced to buy the permission to use that meme from them.

    3. Re:Great business model! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. For thousands of years, humans known as farmers saved a portion of their crops to plant the next year. Only in recent times has it been more profitable to sell everything and buy the seeds anew the next year. Very recently, it has returned back to being more profitable to save the seeds but now you can't due to the patent Monsanto holds on the genes.

    4. Re:Great business model! by Abstrackt · · Score: 1

      You're one of those people who thinks milk comes from a factory, aren't you?

      --
      They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
    5. Re:Great business model! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is actually a suit going through about organic farms getting contaminated by monsanto products. It was common to seed save long before monsanto existed. There are portable machines specifically designed for it. You astroturfing sod.

    6. Re:Great business model! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's still more profitable to repurchase the seeds for corn and soybean. Do you have any other crops?

      You can still save your seed, Monsanto doesn't sue over accidental contamination. That's an old myth.

    7. Re:Great business model! by hibiki_r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It depends on the crop: Replanting corn, while possible, will get you way worse yields than not. Pretty much every commercial seed you can buy, whether GMO or not, is a hybrid, so a second generation will not have the same genetic makeup as the previous generation. So replanting corn is not exactly good business proposition, even without any licensing issues: You just get worse plants.

      With, say, soybeans, it's not that case at all. Soybeans have perfect flowers, so they self pollinate. This makes it relatlively expensive to try new crosses, as you have a very small window to manipulate the flowers manually, and even then, you won't have a very high success rate. But once you have a cross you like, going from a plant to a field's worth is very cheap. In that way, soybeans are a bit like software.

      Therefore, without licensing agreements and IP, it'd make very little sense to spend money developing soybeans specifically, since everyone that you sell a seed to becomes instantly able to compete with you, just like if you tried to sell GPL derived software: You better make all the money you expect on that first sale. So it'd only make sense to do development for the same reasons it makes sense to develop GPL apps: Mainly because you are a user too, and distributing your work makes it more valuable to you than keeping it. In agricultural terms, that'd only happen if you planted your own crops for sale, and you had the majority of the market.

      So really, remove IP protection, and development would drop like a rock. Whether that'd be a good or a bad thing, or whether there's a different balance of IP that would provide more utility to society is a different story.

    8. Re:Great business model! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about? I have family that farm (corn). you sell a lot of your crop. Some of your crop does not look nice. You use that for your own food and seeds.

    9. Re:Great business model! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Farmers do not save seed for replanting.

      I grew up on a small farm. ALL crops were from seeds that were grown the year before. What you did was crop rotation so you didn't grow oats in same field years in a row.

    10. Re:Great business model! by thaylin · · Score: 1

      It is not a myth, if you read above it has been shown that they do, and have lost cases to that fact. Also how is it more profitable to not reuse seeds from a later generation?

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    11. Re:Great business model! by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      Monsanto doesn't sue over accidental contamination. That's an old myth.

      It is not a myth, if you read above it has been shown that they do, and have lost cases to that fact.

      Where? If have read through the thread, and I have found a lot of people claiming this, but no-one seems to have a source. Do you have one?

    12. Re:Great business model! by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      Development wouldn't drop like a rock. It would revert to the ag schools, which already do a significant amount of the heavy R&D work anyway.

      We managed to grow food without genetic patents from about 12,000 BC to 1980. I think its safe to say we could figure out how to keep it going.

    13. Re:Great business model! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, by a remarkable coincidence I was reading a wiki page last night, and you've just made a specific argument that it calls "fallacious." Go here and read about it.

  14. I googled "Umbrella Corporation" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How cute.

    Reality is much more evil.

  15. Inflation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    between 1995 and 2011, the average cost of planting one acre of soybeans rose 325 percent and corn seed prices went up 259 percent.

    Doesn't that average out to about 10% increase a year? How much of that is normal inflation and how much is Monsanto being greedy?

    1. Re:Inflation? by fnj · · Score: 1

      between 1995 and 2011, the average cost of planting one acre of soybeans rose 325 percent and corn seed prices went up 259 percent.

      Doesn't that average out to about 10% increase a year? How much of that is normal inflation and how much is Monsanto being greedy?

      The consumer price index (a common definition of inflation) rose by 45.75% total between 1995 and 2011. So for 325%, Monsanto was a greedy bastard to the tune of 279.25%. For 259%, Monsanto was a greedy bastard to the tune of 213.25%.

    2. Re:Inflation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only if their seed didn't reduce the cost of spraying and maintenance for farmers (which it does) and if it didn't provide higher yeilds (which it does) and if it didn't imbue some level of drough resistance (which it does) over non-GMO crop.

  16. Monsanto share holders wanted more dividends by sunking2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    So God made a farmer to sue.

    1. Re:Monsanto share holders wanted more dividends by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Brought to you by Chrysler...

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  17. In other news... by sparkeyjames · · Score: 1

    Monsanto is still evil. More on this and other stories after this commercial break.

  18. farmers should sue monsanto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Farmers should sue MONSANTO because their seed contaminate farmers seed, they should keep control of their modified seeds.
    Oils companies have to pay when they contaminate water, sea, soil, etc.

    MONSANTO must pay because their seeds contaminate farmer's farms.

    PD. englihs is not my native language, I hope you understand the point.

    1. Re:farmers should sue monsanto by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      The farmers doesn't see it as contamination. In fact, in all the cases I have found where Monsanto have sued, the farmers have sprayed the fields with glyphosate in order to select the "contamination".

  19. Re:That's ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When Monsanto an others dictate food prices, I hope you are still as happy.

  20. Re:Yogi Frog by hoboroadie · · Score: 2, Funny

    /. is smarter than the average pond?

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  21. bullies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a documentary on Netflix on this worthless company named Monsanto. Monsanto is nothing but worthless Bullies that need castrated.

  22. he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 5, Informative

    Better story at npr, please stop linking to RT.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/10/15/162949288/farmer-tackling-monsantos-seed-policy-gets-a-day-in-supreme-court

    'He also took advantage of the gene. It allowed him to spray Roundup (or a generic version of the same weedkiller), which made controlling weeds relatively cheap and easy.'

    If you are buying leftover seed and harvested seed it's one thing. If you spray it with Roundup, you are using it as Roundup-ready seed and you are thus utilizing the value of Monsanto's invention. Why should you not pay for the enhanced features of Monsanto's seed if you use them?

    If you don't use them, the Monsanto doesn't sue. So you can buy and harvest seed, just use it as regular seed, not Roundup-ready seed.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dumb cunts like you really do damage to society.

      Natures way is to polinate (Often by air).

      If you recieve said genes naturaly, They should be yours. Like it has always been in the past.

      I'm not sure why farmers don't test for Monsanto genes and sue for damaged lines.
      And do it everytime there is a breech (Which is always). Because Monsanto is
      obviously liable for the genetics they can not contain.

    2. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you are buying leftover seed and harvested seed it's one thing. If you spray it with Roundup, you are using it as Roundup-ready seed and you are thus utilizing the value of Monsanto's invention. Why should you not pay for the enhanced features of Monsanto's seed if you use them?

      If I Ford sells you a car, you run it into a pole, and I buy a few salvaged parts such as the brakes and use them to make a dune-buggy. The various elements of those parts are covered by patents, and I'm taking advantage of the functionality of those patents by using the parts - e.g. I'm using the brakes as brakes.

      Should Ford now be able to sue me for patent infringement?

      Remember, the parts I used were paid for in full, including any patent licensing to use them when YOU bought the car in the first place. I am not making copies of the parts, I am using the actual original parts that you were sold.

    3. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why should you not pay for the enhanced features of Monsanto's seed if you use them?

      Because they're seeds, and presumably Monsanto sold them to you at some point or at least sold them to someone else? I'm not really seeing why Montanto should be able to extract money from people merely because they're making use of seeds.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    4. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I bought a car from Ford and took it apart and started selling cars similiar to it, should Ford now be able to sue me for patent infringement?

    5. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should you not pay for the enhanced features of Monsanto's seed if you use them?

      Because they're seeds, and presumably Monsanto sold them to you at some point or at least sold them to someone else? I'm not really seeing why Montanto should be able to extract money from people merely because they're making use of seeds.

      Exactly.

      And since everyone just loves a car analogy, what Monsanto is doing would be the same as a Ford sales rep showing up at your doorstep expecting a cut from the sale of your 17-year old F-150 you sold last week.

      And then Ford showing up again to collect from the junkyard 3 years later, because after all, that's not just any old scrap metal. That's Ford scrap metal.

      I'm not saying you can't profit from a patent on consumables. But I'm not about to stick my finger down my throat to puke it up just so you can charge me again.

    6. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by thaylin · · Score: 1

      Except that is not what happened here. Besides the fact that they are trying to patent an effect of nature, that the farmers cant control.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    7. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by sedmonds · · Score: 1
      The original sale isn't a sale, it's a license to use for a specific purpose with clear and well known conditions. Farmers are well aware of the conditions of the licenses they sign, and the farmers who buy second-hand are well aware of the conditions of the license. The secondary market purchasers are knowing parties to contract violation - and that is an action known to law. And since the secondary "sale" wasn't valid at law, the secondary "purchaser" is infringing the patent - which is also an action known to law.

      If you licensed a car from Ford, and the terms of the license clearly and unambigiously prohibit assigning (selling) the license to third parties and the terms are well known to anyone even remotely related to the Ford market, then damn right Ford should be able to sue secondary "buyers" for patent infringement.

    8. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by TFAFalcon · · Score: 1

      Why should the farmers that DIDN'T sign the license be the ones that follow it. The farmers that did sign then sold the seeds they grew to third parties without requiring them to sing any kind of a license. So why doesn't Monsanto go after the sellers, or require them to get their buyers to sign the Monsanto license? Why should third parties be required to enforce the rules Monsanto made up?

    9. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Patent infringement? But they're using the seeds, not using whatever method Monsanto uses to make the seeds. This makes no sense, but that's probably because I'm ignorant of what idiotic laws entail.

      At any rate, one thing is certain: Monsanto is evil and anyone defending them is an imbecile.

    10. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, but if your brakes were able to spawn a new set of brakes that you then sold for profit, yes.

    11. Re:he used the seed as Roundup-Ready by vux984 · · Score: 1

      The original sale isn't a sale,it's a license to use

      That is factually incorrect. Its a sale. There is a contractual agreement involved, but it is still a sale.

      Reselling the seeds is a violation of the contract, and the party in breach (the seed seller) would then liable for the damages caused to Monsanto with the breach.

      But the seed buyer is not party to the contract and not liable for anything.

  23. "Do Evil". by Andy+Prough · · Score: 1

    Some corporations have a slightly different version of the Google motto...

  24. But.. but... by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    socialism!

    --
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  25. Perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So US Corn production was ~10bln bushels last year, and sold at $8/bushel. That's $80 billion dollars. Or 80,000 million dollars. That's last year alone. This article counts multiple years for those lawsuits and that $23million. That's 23/80000. This doesn't include soybean(The article does include soybean in that $23million).

    Also, Corn is not saved and replanted. Why? Because you get inbreeding depression. You lose a lot of bushels per acre, and purchasing new seed is a better business option. Also, new hybrid varieties come out every so many years that are genetically resistant to pests, usually coming from a low-producing but resistant variety that has been back-crossed into the elite performing line(this takes many generations and several years). This is especially important for things you can't spray for (viruses, fast acting bacteria on sensitive days, such as flowering). So for multiple reasons you don't save seed.

    Soybean is easier to save, but not done as often because it is not packaged the same if you save it. Saved seeds are usually coated with fungicide and other protective chemicals(they even have organic versions coming out for organic seed production, hopefully in the next few years, organic agriculture is big business now and increasing crop yield is as high on their list as it is on any industrial farm, and many organic farms are industrialized now).

    Soybean does have inbreeding depression, but it is not as severe as corn for a variety of reasons I won't go into here.

    As far as accidental contamination and being sued by Monsanto? 81 organic farmers sued to prevent this, but since all the violations before had been due to consciously planting Monsanto seed without an existing agreement, and 0 had been for accidental insect or wind based contamination, the judge threw it out. That's right, Food Inc lied to you. Most of that movie has been debunked, actually. There are better ways to learn about organic farming, sustainable farming, and industrial farming than a highly biased documentary.

  26. World domination by Kevin+Burtch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Monsanto produces seed that they cannot control. Cross-pollination contaminates even the most carefully selected organic crops. The plants produce a product that is essentially the sum of the egg and pollen, which means it contains Monsanto's infection. Monsanto then trespasses on the farmers' properties, stealing "samples", waits 2 years so the farmers have no way to prove their innocence, then sues them for every last penny they have. This is their MO and is essentially making a process (seed reuse) used for countless thousands of years, illegal.

    In any civilized world, the farmers would be able to sue Monsanto over the infection and loss of a valuable crop. Instead, they're ruined.

    Think any of this is made up? You need to read the lawsuits and not Monsanto's propaganda.
    Think the goal of the genetic modifications is high yield? You need to read more on that too... Google "roundup-ready"... Its there for one purpose, so they can dump megadoses of roundup (poison) onto the crops without killing them.

    Think my use of "infection" is out of line? Read up on the process. They took a gene they discovered in a bacteria and used a virus to insert it into the plant's genes.
    Notice I used the word "discovered" and not "invented"... They did not invent the gene that they patented, but then that's true of many of their patents. They've patented many naturally occurring plants and animals. Yes, animals (google Germany Monsanto large hogs).

    For those who don't believe the contamination is out of control, google "wild canola Monsanto percentage" (if you're too lazy, 86% of "wild" canola has at least one modified gene from Monsanto, and many have two (2nd from another company), which means multiple generations of contamination). This is complete and total loss of control of a contagion. It won't be long before wild canola is extinct.

    The fact that this company has not been brought up on countless charges for the above actions is beyond comprehension.

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    1. Re:World domination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee, you make genetic engineering sound like some kind of BIO hazard!

    2. Re:World domination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it is comical that the anti dupont/monsanto crowd eats up these defendant arguments like these growers are completely innocent. Its like people getting busted on bit torrent playing dumb.

    3. Re:World domination by sFurbo · · Score: 0

      Think any of this is made up? You need to read the lawsuits and not Monsanto's propaganda.

      Do enlighten me, I have tried to read up on the cases that people keep bringing forth, but every time I do so, I find that the farmer had sprayed the field with glyphosate to select the GMO seeds. Monsanto is not going after seed reuse, they are going after knowingly using their invention. But perhaps you have a link to a lawsuit where this is not the case?

    4. Re:World domination by Kevin+Burtch · · Score: 1

      Just add the tem "organic" to your search. You can't use those chemicals and call your crop organic, and Monsanto has gone after many organic farmers.

      --
      - Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -
    5. Re:World domination by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      I just tried a quick googling, all I can find is organic farmers suing Monsanto. Do you have a link, or perhaps the name of one of the farmers who have been sued by Monsanto without knowingly benefiting from the GM trait?

  27. A flaw in the sellers agreements by BlueCoder · · Score: 2

    I don't really like Monsanto but it seems to me from a legal standpoint they are suing the wrong person. It sounds like a flaw in their licensing. They don't just need to get signatures from farmers but also from those they sell to such that they will not sell the product for replanting. This obviously needs to go all the way down to even customers in supermarkets. A good thing for customers that GMO labeling.

    It is possible that the court could even allow continued generations of crops for future seeds so long as whomever sells the seeds in the future does not use genetic testing for seed selection. Should end up with at least 95 percent equivalent seed for farmers using roundup.

    And 23 million? Seems like an awfully small number. But I really don't expect them to collect very much money as most of the farmers will likely go bankrupt just like the guy getting sued in the article. Given the solution that Monsanto just needs to get everyone in the supply chain to agree not to replant I think the US Supreme Court will let it go.

    And it's wrong that if there were no genetic patents that GMO's would not be developed. I think farmer organizations as a group would invest in research and development. And McDonald's and other large commercial chains would also likely invest as it would reduce the costs of their suppliers.

    1. Re:A flaw in the sellers agreements by Kevin+Burtch · · Score: 1

      Monsanto doesn't discriminate... They sue the seed washers into the ground too.
      And exactly how are the seed washers and such supposed to be able to tell the difference?
      It's not like the seeds have Monsanto's corporate logo on them.

      --
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    2. Re:A flaw in the sellers agreements by N1AK · · Score: 1

      I think farmer organizations as a group would invest in research and development. And McDonald's and other large commercial chains would also likely invest as it would reduce the costs of their suppliers.

      Why pay to develop cheaper supplier costs if the research will be immediately available to all competitors; it's an increased cost for no, even temporary, chance to increase profit margin. Why invest billions inventing a better seed if all your competitors can keep the billions and copy the seed immediately for no cost.

      There are examples of GM crops that would likely have been created without patents: Ones funded by charities or governments generally motivated by starvation in areas. Other than that I think you'll struggle to find any evidence people would continue GM research without any protections.

  28. OS Seeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about open sourced seeds?

    Of course can't be source code, but a company could exist that produces GE or just Sane well chosen seeds to be used free by whoever like to use them. Instead of being in the free market to compete in the capitalist model, that hypothetical company could be founded by governments and/or non lucrative organisations that don't collect money has the huge corporations do.

  29. Seed prices went up and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much did production costs per unit bushel go down? How much did yield per acre increase?

  30. Maybe you will.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But there are plenty of privately held seed banks and organizations both in the US and globally where you can get non-Monsanto controlled seeds.

  31. Those greedy bastartds... by DigitalSorceress · · Score: 2

    All I can say is ... those greedy bastards... they OWN the patent to Roundup, right? So why do they need to charge coming and going??? why can't they just let the gene get into whatever seeds it can and then just make a killing selling Roundup since everyones crops will already be "Roundup Ready"?

    Noooooo! that's not the greediest possible stance... they have to get you coming and going and then sue folks who end up with their seeds on their farms due to ... contamination?

    Seriously, this is everything that is wrong with our patent laws and our wholesale selling of our government to big business. /GAH!

    --

    The Digital Sorceress
    1. Re:Those greedy bastartds... by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2

      Because round up is no longer under patent. You can buy generic glyphosate (round-up) these days.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    2. Re:Those greedy bastartds... by andcal · · Score: 1


      they OWN the patent to Roundup, right? So why do they need to charge coming and going??? why can't they just let the gene get into whatever seeds it can and then just make a killing selling Roundup since everyones crops will already be "Roundup Ready"?

      Oh, that one is easy. Monsanto's last commercially relevant US patent to glyphosate expired in 2000

      --
      --something witty
    3. Re:Those greedy bastartds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Roundup herbicide patent expired in 2000. The RoundupReady soybean patent expires in 2014, then saving beans for replanting will be OK (at least according to Google, but one link was to a Monsanto announcement).

    4. Re:Those greedy bastartds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Roundup is off patent, and soon many of their seeds will be (starting with soy next year). They are trying to squeeze the last bit of cash out of the farmers before they start *legally* replanting their GM soy.

    5. Re:Those greedy bastartds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they don't own any patents on roundup. glyphosate has been around for decades. they, however, have been able to successfully patent and arrange IP protection for splicing glyphosate resistance genes into corn and soybeans. they wouldn't make any money on round-up since any company can sell glyphosate. Also, if their IP isn't held in courts then there is no reason for any company to spend any money on biotech to create GMO products since they wouldn't be able to get their money back.

  32. 10 Crazy Reasons You're Not Growing Vegetables by mutube · · Score: 0

    Yvonne Lee, Community Manager at Dice.com writes,

    Not using standard seed packets, not tying your work to real farmyard results and not using the right countryside lingo can mean never getting called for a tilling, even if you have the right skills to work the plough. I once heard advice to grow the exact vegetables found in the supermarket when placing your seeds. I think you're even more unlikely to sell your produce if you do some of the things on this list."

  33. how much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Monsanto gets that much, I can give a discount on mine. Just stand back as I don't claim that I can aim very well.

  34. Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The patents on roundup ready crops are sound because Monsanto was able to introduce genes not standard to corn and soybeans that make them glyphosate resistant. This is no different than pharma companies being able to combine and create molecules and sell them. Court rulings agree

    In addition to round up resistance, GMOs have other traits (drought, disease, and pest resistance) that make them lower maintenance (cost) and easier to grow. Traditionally farmed non-organic fields are sprayed dozens of times a year for various reasons. GMOs need less of this and can yield more in non-irrigated farmland, which is most areas. This explains the jump in seed costs after you remove the 16 year inflation element from the 325 percentfrom the article. Yields across the board are also up 37% over the same span, and i would suspect that GMOs beat that average.

    1. Re:Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Legal doesn't mean right.

      And quit stupidly repeating brochure crap. You're ignoring vast stretches of reality which only idiots and astroturfers are able to turn a blind eye to.

      Get a clue, or drink some Roundup.

  35. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you read the briefs, in a lot of these cases innocent farmer joe(who plants on 5000 acres) didnt realize he was planting inadvertently polinated gmo seed..... even though he later bought 50000 gallons of roundup and sprayed his field with it in the middle of growing season and didnt go bankrupt from all of it dying. Try again sheep.

  36. Oh, shut yer gob. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Farmer Joe is doing it all wrong and Monsanto is providing the tools. At least Joe is acting in ignorance, (probably believes grains are good, that is). As destructive as that may be, at least there is no malevolent intent.

    Meanwhile, I encourage all those who believe that patenting life is okay to consume more grain products and soda pop.

  37. Perhaps by Anarchduke · · Score: 1

    Dorner could have had a better target than the LAPD. Like Monsanto.

    --
    who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
  38. You don't have to buy Monsanto seeds by brillow · · Score: 1

    There are lots of non GM soybeans around and they are cheap.

    Why do famers buy expensive GM seeds then?

    Because they are better. You make more money when you plant GM seed.

    Farmers are not dumb.

    1. Re:You don't have to buy Monsanto seeds by betterprimate · · Score: 1

      There are lots of non GM soybeans around and they are cheap.

      Why do famers buy expensive GM seeds then?

      Because they are better. You make more money when you plant GM seed.

      Farmers are not dumb.

      No, farmers are desperate. It's a greater yield at a greater long-term expense.

      Who's going to pay for the $120K combine?

    2. Re:You don't have to buy Monsanto seeds by brillow · · Score: 1

      The combine costs a lot more than $120k.

      But farmers are not dumb. They have done these calculations. Monsanto seeds do not require greater long-term expense. It is no problem to quit using Monsanto's seeds if the costs are too high. You are not "locked in" to Monsanto's product. Many farmers can and do plant non-GMO seeds and if you've seen the prices of "organic" corn and soybeans you will know you can make money doing this.

      If Monsanto's seeds quit being worth the money to plant, farmers would quit planting them.

      It is not analogous to say buying MS products for your business. With those you do get locked-in when your Exchange server won't migrate out to a FOSS alternative. Or when your Oracle database system won't export to new products.

      With farming though, all you have to do is buy different seeds next year.

      Also, many people don't know this, FARMERS (by and large) DO NOT SAVE SEEDS.

      Even the non GMO seeds are hybrids with enhanced vigor. If you saved the seeds the "hybrid-vigor" (google that) would not persist. This is not due to scheming by seed companies, this is just how genetics works.

      Some people get so into the idea that Monsanto is evil that they forget to think if they are actually making a good product.

  39. Laws are legal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Monsanto needs to do their job and make it so the farmers can't re-use the seed. Buying laws to aid their business model? That's bullshit.

  40. In Argentina, farmers have the right to keep them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Argentina, farmers have the right to replant seeds generated in a plantation of monsanto seeds, without paying royalties to Monsanto. Life should not be subject to patents, ever.

    Quote from Pagina/12 newspaper: ‘Los granjeros argentinos tienen derecho a replantar –no a revender– semillas generadas en una cosecha originada en semillas registradas sin pagar regalías, pero no a venderlas’, dice un cable de marzo del 2006 firmado por el entonces embajadorLino Gutiérrez”, explicó el editor jefe de Página12.

  41. Monsanto copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "hey took full advantage of the GMO by spraying their crops with glyphosate. "

    Monsanto didn't put a kill switch in their seeds. They could have done. If they have a catastrophic failure of the crop due to some Monsanto shortcoming, I hope that Monsanto are equally liable for the losses.

    Because ultimately Monsanto have contaminated the seed pool with seeds containing a natural reproduction step.

    "To portray these farmers as poor victims of pollen spread by the wind is baloney."
    No, they took a crop that resisted the pesticide and replanted it. This is how farming works. Did Monsanto offer a free test of their field for contamination and compensation for killing any cross contamination? No.

    1. Re:Monsanto copyright by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

      Monsanto didn't put a kill switch in their seeds. They could have done.

      They tried that one before, and it was actually rejected by the marketplace.

      --
      They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  42. Superior != GMO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're equating superior with GMO as though planting superior is the same as planting a GMO crop. He did what farmers do, and kept back and planted the seeds that grew well for the next crop.

    What if the seeds weren't Monsanto's? What if they were just superior seeds? As all prior improvements in crop yields have been? You know, that evolution thing the Republicans are so against?? The way farmers have always done it?
    What if they were seeds from some other patent holder? Is he now supposed to test for every patent holders genetics before sowing a seed that does better?

    Monsanto did not offer any free test of seeds, nor compensation to replace contaminated seeds with non Monsanto contaminated seeds. They also didn't put a kill switch in their seeds so farmers would have to buy from them each season.

    If you buy Monsanto seeds they'll make you a bigger profit, most of which is grabbed back by Monsanto. Your gain is small. It could well be your gain would be bigger simply by cultivating the better (but non Monsanto) seeds, as this farmer did. But now he has an extra burden of genetic tests on seeds to check they're not Monsanto contaminated!

    He did what farmers do, yet not, because of these crappy patents, he has to spend money to avoid contaminated seeds.

    Now the situation gets worse with evolution, because crops from one patent holder will cross pollinate with crops from another, and mutate. Monsanto and others will try to claim every mutation as there's too.

    Can I remind you that Monsanto's change was to make the crop more resistant to Monsanto chemicals, and most likely less resistant to other problems as a result. Since it's more dedicated to resisting Monsanto's.

    Will they pay compensation for any damage they've done, when it turns out they've done damage?

  43. Okay, here's an example by PostPhil · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://nelsonfarm.net/issue.htm

    I would go through the trouble of going down the list, but Google already exists.

  44. Quite simply: NO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are 2 issues with what the Monsanto mob is doing;

    First of all, they pollute neighbouring fields and then charge farmers for it (the reason farmers lose this is IMHO because Monsanto can afford more expensive lawyers/politicians).

    Secondly, NOBODY should ever get a monopoly on the food chain, especially not if it is based on GM. They're not the only ones jockeying for that position, Nestle is apparently busy buying up water sources.

    In many ways they remind me of the tobacco industry.. Bury evidence and keep those with better ideas busy in court.

  45. Meanwhile at the Gates Foundation by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

    'Bill Gates dumps another $10 million into researching new GM crops for agricultural takeover of Africa '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18845282
    http://www.naturalnews.com/036561_Bill_Gates_GM_crops_Africa.html

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    1. Re:Meanwhile at the Gates Foundation by vandamme · · Score: 1

      Bill Gates is slightly less evil than Monsanto.

  46. Why aren't Monsanto crops nuisances. by MarkvW · · Score: 1

    Hypothetical: I've got my plants on my property. I use them for seeds. I've used them for seeds for years. Now, the wind brings Monsanto crap onto my property and because of that Monsanto crap my crops are generating seeds that are patented by Monsanto. I don't want Monsanto crap on my property, but I need the seeds for next year.

    Why isn't this a nuisance at law? They're fucking polluting my land with their patent crap.

    Can anybody explain the theory how Monsanto gets away with this? This is more fucking bullshit than my poor brain can stand.

    1. Re:Why aren't Monsanto crops nuisances. by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      The films "Food Inc." and "The Corporation" provide a perspective.

      First, Monsanto convinced the U.S. government that genes could be patented. This was challenged and taken to the SCOTUS (see Diamond v. Chakrabarty) where Monsanto won.

      Monsanto now has a department of investigators whose mission is to hunt down farmers who are using the patented plants, even unknowingly. Their army of lawyers then extort the farmer into paying licensing fees or bankrupt them through relentless litigation. The Canadian court case of Monsanto v. Schmeiser is also an interesting precedent on contamination and saving of seeds.

      Monsanto also successfully sued a guy who ran a business providing the service of separating seeds from mature plants. i.e. moving his equipment from farm to farm and allowing farmers to recover seeds from their crops. They claimed he was facilitating the illegal practice of saving seeds.

  47. Show me a relative cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Show me a graph of seed prices and spot prices for crops, indexed to 1995.

    Then I'll believe this is a "screw the farmer" issue.

    Add in land values for shits and giggles and I'll show you a bunch of hidden millionaires.

  48. Farmers and GMO seed .. by dgharmon · · Score: 1

    "These farmers knew full well that they were planting GMO seed .. and they took full advantage of the GMO by spraying their crops with glyphosatea".

    A farmer replants seeds from his own crop and is sued in court by the 'owners' of the genes. There are also cases of farmers who never bought Monsanto seeds getting sued because of cross contamination.

    --
    AccountKiller
  49. Re: Quotes from the link... by xiando · · Score: 3, Informative
    Did you even read the whole article? Do you even read? Quotes from the article:

    Monsanto GM infecting farms in Germany:

    2010: Monsanto's GM corn was discovered across 3,000 hectares (7,400 acres) in seven German states. Since Germany doesn't allow GM corn to be planted, the farmers had to destroy their crops. These farmers had to "eat" their losses, as the seed companies refused to accept liability for the contamination.

    Monsanto GM infecting farms in Spain:

    2007: Pollen drift from GM maize (MON810) fields were found to have contaminated hundreds of conventional and organic farmers in Spain, the only country in the EU that allows GM maize to be cultivated.

    Most if not all of the EU doesn't want Monsanto GM but it somehow manages to infect EU farms anyway.

  50. Re:Orders of magnitude by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

    I don't have any trouble getting seeds for my ten acre organic farm, probably different for the guy that grows your food.

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  51. Corrupt, Evil, theiving liars by shalomsky · · Score: 1

    I live in the suburbs, near a big city. I have a small lawn. I want to grow grass, and vegetables. I don't mind the weeds. I love weeds. Farming is not a mainstay in my state. It is not big business. Plenty of people here want to do organic, and biodynamic. We want to keep Monsanto completely OUT (yes, shouted) of our state. I don't want anything from Monsato growing on my property. I won't buy anything from them. Their suicide seeds blow in from somewhere, and grow in my yard. I wouldn't put it past them to show up at my place, say I stole their crop, sue me for $5,000,000, and take my house and all my worldly possessions, and leave me homeless. This is what they do. Anyone who thinks otherwise, has fallen for their bullshit. They are out to make food serfs out of everyone. That is reality. Somewhere in their corporate HQ, is a business plans, to make it impossible to avoid buying food that they have patented. You will owe them someday, for your fruit, your veggies, your eggs, your meat, everything. Their gene tech will be in everything, most people don't know, this is exactly what they want.

  52. Re:Monsanto = Microsoft by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

    Anti competitive business practices are felonious crimes and ruin innocent peoples lives. Some of us care. YMMV

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  53. Soon, Monsanto Will Own It All by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  54. The fix is in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real problem here is the Monsanto cycles their employees through the US Government to ensure their interests are protected. Politicians are elected with the help of political donations from Monsanto. Next thing you know, executives from Monsanto are appointed to some position in the Department of Agriculture. They serve their time, then go back to Monsanto.

    This is exactly the reason why farmers whose crops have been cross pollinated with GMO genes cannot sue Monsanto for damages. This is exactly why companies cannot stamp "GMO Free" on their products in many places.

  55. This isn't such a bad thing.. by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    It's fucking egregious. Monsanto creates a way to put the average farmer out of business through litigation. Privatized Megafarms then buy out the land from the out-of-business farms for a pretty cheap price. Megafarm then moves in it's own production on a scale 10x that of the previous owner. Chemicals and Bioengineering produce yields far superior to what that land was producing previously. Stock prices soar. Investors are happy. The company grows and cycle continues. Megafarm then monopolizes on both grown product as well as dictating "who holds the seeds". One company now controls the food supply and can basically set any price it wants regardless of quality.

    In another 50 years, you won't even be able to plant Pansies without needing a license from Monsanto, Bill Gates, or the Rockefeller foundation. Yeah, Reddit. Tell me more about your hero Bill again.

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  56. Actually Yeh by DABANSHEE · · Score: 2

    Patent law does not apply to anything homemade by end users themselves, it only applies to commercial products.

  57. Two words. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Agent Orange.

  58. Devil's advocate by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    "Life itself" is rather poorly defined at the molecular level.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  59. Actually it is by DABANSHEE · · Score: 1

    For the entire history of agriculture from the neolithic to the contemporary. Yes a significant percentage, maybe even a majority, of the planet's farmers still do it today.

  60. Just remember by loonwings · · Score: 1

    Monsanto is greedy, therefore we can throw science out the window and irrationally run around terrified of GMOs because somehow greed = unsafe food?

  61. @sFurbo Mosanto Shrill by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    @sFurbo [Sorry, I'd reply directly but the new Slashdot update does not work with IE9, and I have no alternative at the moment.]

    Sorry the above twit has pissed me off by repeating the exact same thing. Why did the farmers use glyphosate on their fields?

    The same reason they've been using RoundUp since the 1970s. When GMO grains really first came on the scene in the mid/late-90's. So 25 years of farmers using RoundUp before GMOs.

    And a &*@#$% shrill like you keeps asking "Why did they spray glyphosate on their fields?" I'll answer you when you tell me why farmers used the stuff on their fields 25 years prior to GMO products?

    *******

    Glyphosate (Roundup) introduced in the 1970s

    "Called by experts in herbicides "virtually ideal" due to its broad spectrum and low toxicity compared with other herbicides,[4] glyphosate was quickly adopted by farmers. Use increased even more when Monsanto introduced glyphosate-resistant crops, enabling farmers to kill weeds without killing their crops."

    Wait, why would farmers use Roundup before GMO roundup-resistant crops even existed? Unless you're a lying shrill for Mosanto.

    The truth is, Roundup was used. Not at as high of levels. But guess what....ever heard of genetics/evolution/survival of the fittest?

    Even before the advent of GMO corn. Farmers were essentially breeding their corn to be more resistant to glyphosate. So the idea to save each year that lot which showed itself to be most resistant is not an indicator of deliberate use of Mosanto seed.

    It's sort of like me saving the seeds of those garden plants that survived drought conditions. As they're more drought hardy. Gee, farmers have been doing this since oh....give or take a few thousand years.

    "[Round-up Ready GMO] crops allow farmers to use glyphosate as a post-emergence herbicide against both broadleaf and cereal weeds, but the development of similar resistance in some weed species is emerging as a costly problem."

    So there you have it, Mosanto wants you to believe that only the weeds are building resistance to Round-up. And that a farmer is insidious if they're trying to save their corn seed which shows the best glyphosate resistance.

    Really, so weeds can naturally build resistance but a farmer should not expect his corn to do likewise?

    If Mosanto's shrills can't understand basic natural selection. Mosanto should revoke their paychecks.

    ***

    So lets go beyond corn?

    85% of wild canola tested by a study was infected by GMO genes. Note, that this wasn't just self-propagation, but cross pollination. As GMO genes by two competing companies were discovered in a single plant specimen. And there is NO WAY that is possible outside of pollination infection.

    How about sugar beets, organic beet farmers found their beets were infected by GMO. Harmed their business since they're organic and no way WANTED such. And sued, and yes a stay on GMO was enacted.

  62. Re:Monsanto = Microsoft by Omestes · · Score: 1

    Yeah sure, MS does bad things. But in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really compare to the things Bill Gates is actually throwing money at. I'd much rather the money go to bigger problems than just crushing a silly software company.

    Also... whose life has been ruined by Microsoft? This smells like hyperbole. Yes, they have some rather nasty business practices, but saying that someone life has been actually "ruined" is a bit much. I wasn't aware that Balmer had death squads.

    Perspective. Nerds don't have it.

    --
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  63. Paid for. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The judge is clearly paid for.

    I wonder how the Sons of Liberty would respond to this in modern times.

    They would probably burn all of the monsanto crops to the ground all over the country, and only the other farmers

  64. Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Putting aside the issue of whether Monsanto is right or not, my real beef with seed patents is that all these lawsuits and bureaucracy are integrated into food production, along with all of its problems.

    Food is a necessity, and no private company should be able to profit from it to such an extreme degree. I'd go as far as arguing it a human rights violation.

  65. Situation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The way I've heard either this case or another like it (I did not read TFA) was:
    Once upon a time farmers grew soybeans and sold them on the open market. Then Monsanto worked on developing a new type of soybean that grew better (more resistant to insects/took less water whatever) and charged for it. When buying soybeans in the open market you could choose to buy whatever beans were thrown in a big bin. So you may or may not get some modified beans. Originally this was only a small percent however, the beans proved to be so popular that almost all the farmers started to used them. This eventually resulted in a very high chance that most of the beans you bought from the big bin were the special Monsanto beans. However, since this wasn't guaranteed they are sold as "normal" beans and Monsanto doesn't get a cut. However, if 90% of the beans are now their special one should Monsanto get a cut even though these are 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gen beans? Should they only get paid once when the farmers first buy them? What happens when ALL the beans are the modified version?

  66. Victory gardens banned by tepples · · Score: 1

    Some cities and neighborhoods have been banning victory gardens under zoning and nuisance ordinances.

  67. In the Midwest we have GreenBean delivery by charnov · · Score: 1

    GreenBean http://www.greenbeandelivery.com/ is very affordable and allows consumers to connect with local farmers and to select organic produce. I actually spend LESS than my friends who shop at Kroger or Marsh.

    Whole Foods is to food as Urban Outfitter is to clothes... to separate hipsters from mommy and daddy's money.

    --
    [RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
  68. This isn't 'Nam, there are rules. by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

    Okay, busted. It's all hype.

    Anti competitive business practices are felonious crimes and ruin innocent peoples lives.

    The law wasn't actually written because of Microsoft's felonious activities, and there may very well not be a causative link between tax-subsidized American maize and the global demise of family farms.

    You got me.

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
    1. Re:This isn't 'Nam, there are rules. by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Did I ever say that they didn't commit felonies, or were convicted of them?

      I just see no evidence whatsoever that they "ruined" people's lives, innocent or not. Obviously this doesn't make them good guys. I am not defending Microsoft. Hell, they are STILL doing things I find morally dubious, and quite possibly illegal. This hasn't ruined my life though. Inconvenienced, yes, Ruined, no.

      As for farms (where the hell did that come from?), perhaps it did, perhaps not. Small businesses in general have been dying, and not only because subsidies. Money concentrates. This happens in every industry, someone gets an edge, gets rich, and buys everyone else, and then gets richer. This happened in the 1920-30s as well, without any help from the government.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    2. Re:This isn't 'Nam, there are rules. by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

      This happened in the 1920-30s as well, without any help from the government.

      Enough of us thought this was a bad thing that laws were passed to prevent it.

      As for farms (where the hell did that come from?)

      Ask a farmer if they've heard of Monsanto.

      Don't feed the trolls.

      Yeah, I'm done.

      --
      They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  69. Dislike patents being used against the public? by glittermage · · Score: 1

    Support PUBPAT. In regards to Monsanto...here are details of a case filed by PUBPAT....Organic Seed Growers & Trade Association et al. v. Monsanto

    This could be a very large case for US law. Oral arguments were on January 10, 2013. You can download recording from US Court of Appeals (Federal).

  70. Moar propaganda pleaz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My opinion is based on personal observation and random dubious sources, this guy has footnotes.

  71. No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die! by Kevin+Fishburne · · Score: 1

    Controlling the world's food supply through GMO seed patents? Where's Daniel Craig when we need him?

    --
    Buy your next Linux PC at eightvirtues.com
  72. Torch them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Torch Monsanto World Headquarter in St. Louis. Burn it to the ground and see if the fuzzy sock suckers get the message. At some point everyone working for Monsanto becomes a viable target. Glad I'm not a farmer or I'd be looking at the choice of lethal injection or electrocution for mass murder and there would be a lot of scared Monsanto employees.