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'Download This Gun' — 3-D Printed Gun Reliable Up To 600 Rounds
An anonymous reader writes "We've talked previously about Texan gunsmith Cody Wilson's efforts to create 3-D-printable parts for firearms. He has a printed magazine that can withstand normal operation for quite a while. But he's also been working on building parts of the gun itself. An early version of a 3-D printed 'lower receiver' — the part of the gun holding the operating parts — failed after firing just 6 rounds. Now, a new video posted by Wilson's organization shows their design has improved enough to withstand over 600 rounds. Plus, their test only ended because they used up their ammunition; they say the receiver could have easily withstood a thousand rounds or more. Speaking to Ars, Wilson gave some insight into his reasoning behind this creation with regard to gun laws. 'I believe in evading and disintermediating the state. It seemed to be something we could build an organization around. Just like Bitcoin can circumvent financial mechanisms. ... The message is in what we're doing—the message is: download this gun.' A spokesperson for the ATF said that while operating a business as a firearm manufacturer requires a license, an individual manufacturing one for personal use is legal."
I wouldn't be surprised if this guy met with an unfortunate accident.
There has been a lot of that happening recently in the gun-rights subculture.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Download this nuke. Just add plutonium and some conventional explosives.
Note to CIA: Get ahead of the game and make a design that doesn't work, and see if rfe North Koreans launch duds at South Korea.
A/C for a reason. Here's hoping "they" haven't cracked my proxy network.
sound a idea for a in the line of fire 2
Someone whose stated goal is "evading and disintermediating the state" being tied to gun ownership and production. Plays right into the gun-control crowd's narrative of how gun owners are all crazies and trying to subvert the government or think a civil war is about to happen. Wilson, please do all of us gun owners a favor and shut up. Feel free to keep working on 3D printed firearms-to me they are no different than purchasing an 80% receiver and milling the rest yourself- just don't talk.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
They are simply doing what the law allows them to do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten
Can we please stop this absurd "we 3D printed a car because we 3D printed the radio knob"-style of thinking??
You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars five thousand dollars per bullet You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.
YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A GUN
I do get it. The public mood concerning guns is highly amplified at the moment and nothing would draw attention as quickly as a gun that could be printed easily at home. Beneath that may reside an unusually powerful change in the very basics of society as we know it. Obviously if one can print a gun then one could print almost everything else. Need a bicycle, a car or a new home? Then turn on the printer. The entire monetary and investment systems now in play would be shot not only in one foot but in both feet with a shot to the head in good measure. The notions of employment, investment and even concepts of ownership could be highly effected. After all, why bother to own a bicycle when a printer can whip one out for you as needed? It is next to impossible for the bulk of the public to sense the shifting sands beneath their feet. I feel that the next thirty years will see more changes in our lives and social structures than in all of human history combined. Future shock may no longer describe the situation. Maybe we can picture it as future shock from a very potent, very large, high voltage, power line with no fuse, contacting our scalps while we stand in a pool of liquid mercury.
Google "MIT 4D printer"
'I believe in evading and disintermediating the state. It seemed to be something we could build an organization around.Just like Bitcoin can circumvent financial mechanisms.'
What's this? Exercise in syllogism?
Soap, ballot, jury, ammo.
I forget the order but ammo is definitely last. We haven't needed in to protest our government with armed rebellion on a large scale in America in over 100 years - whichever was later, the end of the Civil War or the last large *just* rebellion/uprising/attack be Native Americans against the Feds.
If you make something artificially high priced, someone will supply it at a lower price. If the price is high due to high quality or branding, you get cheap knock-offs and trademark infringing. If the price is high due to taxes or legality you get very bad elements involved in the supply process...
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
To those who aren't AR-15 enthusiasts:
The only 3D printed part is what is referred to as the "lower reciever" (the part that appears white or clear in the pics/vid). While printing this part (which can last 600 rounds apparently) is an achievement, it probably isn't even among the top 10 parts which experience the most stress...come back and talk to me when they can print:
- The barrel ...etc.
- The chamber
- The upper reciever
- the bolt
- the bold carrier
- the gas tube
The confusion might be from the fact that (according to US law) the serial numbered "reciever" (what that part is varies from one weapon to another) is what the ATF considers to be "The gun" (everything is a part). For example, if I want to buy a serialed AR-15 lower reciever, I go to a firearms dealer, get a background check, etc...everything else that makes up the gun can be purchased online and mailed to my home no problemo.
The part they printed is the part that legally makes it a gun and whose manufacture is highly regulated.
If there was a "legally key part" of a car whose manufacture was highly regulated, then you would have a good analogy.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
>building your own gun using never-before-tested techniques is bound to result in some unfortunate mishaps before all the kinks are worked out.
That's how gun technology got developed in the first place.
When new models are being developed and tested at Colt, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, Winchester, Marlin, Glock, etc .... they put the gun in a "vice like" stand, behind a barrier, and fire it remotely - especially when testing high pressure rounds that you can't buy (some folks do load their own with higher than standard loads, but usually they do their research and have a pretty good idea on how far to push it. Usually.) in order to test the gun - if it survives the high pressure round then it will survive the standard one.
So, the point is, folks aren't taking unnecessary risks in gun development and I would assume that someone with the knowledge and intelligence to create a gun from a 3D printer would have the sense not to take unnecessary risks.
Now of course in this big World and with the Internet, we will see some asshat who will print a gun using sub standard material, load it up with high pressure rounds, turn the camera on, and create a Fark headline.
He will be an outlier.
I'm just waiting to see this ad: "Level 10 city blocks. Costs very little with parts you can purchase at Home depot. Download the plans online."
Kill people just because you can is not a healthy attitude. Neither is making it easy for others to do it on a whim.
We should not have to make everything you should not do illegal.
So the question is how, short of making it illegal, do we stop cretins like this who think they have the right to do this sort of unhealthy social engineering?
If you don't like the "state" you live under then move or change it. It's okay to think subversive thoughts but there are lines.
While I wouldn't do what he's doing, I'll fight for his right to do it. I have no idea what killing people because you can has to do with being able to print your own firearm. Wake me when you can print your own ammunition too.
First off: plans for DIY fuel air explosives are already available online.
Second off: none of this stuff can be done "on a whim". First, you need the right 3D printer, then you need the right plastics, then you need the plans. Finally, you need to know enough about firearms to be able to print and assemble and test the thing. You're also going to need to get some ammunition.
We should never attempt to stop cretins from doing things we don't like -- we SHOULD make our society one in which doing things that are illegal is seen to be unappetizing.
Personally, I have fewer issues with someone providing plans to print a gun than I do with the entertainment industry -- every day on my way to work, I have to pass an ad for a TV show that depicts an attractive young woman in front of a chart of mugshots with "killed" stamped over them -- and huge letters saying "Murder is only the beginning." Think about that for a moment. This poster is MUCH more likely to result in someone committing a violent act than someone being able to make their own gun. I guess gangs and crime syndicates might like these guns because they're untraceable, but they've already got untraceable guns - being able to print and toss will just allow them to stop robbing people for their firearms and will deflate the prices for unmarked guns on the black market -- both of which are good things.
Of course, the first time a printed gun is proven to have been used in an actual crime, things will get nasty.
Someone tried to fax me a gun but it came out flat and my 3-D bullets would not load.
I bet if i download it though the inter-tubes it won't get squashed. *note to self - do NOT compress the download or the gun might be too small for my bullets*
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
they just tested a single beta copy by firing 600 rounds and it did not fail. There's a difference.
Which is not to say this isn't an impressive achievement from an engineering standpoint, or that it doesn't have important policy implications. It's just that I deal with that particular conflation of a successful test with statistically meaningful proof every day. My teenaged son will do something stupid, and when I say that he'll break his neck if he keeps doing it his response is always, "Yeah, but I *didn't*."
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
The resolution and materials commonly available for FDM/FFF are too poor for application like these. The quality of the print is just too poor and they are only using p400 ABS for material. That is why their prints aren't very durable.
SLA however offers the resolution and the materials to produce parts that are strong and reliable enough for these types of rugged applications. Some photopolymers for SLA are 100-1,000 x stronger than the ABS they are using.
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
...working to get 3d printing banned before it has a chance to take off...way too many industries are threatened by this technology.
You can make a suppressor with a few hand tools and a clean oil filter, but you'll still get hard time getting caught with it.
If assault-style weapons are banned and someone prints one, it will be just as illegal.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Just thought I would let you know that you aren't the only one who would prefer if this guy kept a lower profile.
I also wanted to lend a modicum of support—having a positive perspective on all our civil liberties isn't considered acceptable in this echo chamber of hoplophobes, as is amply evidenced by the other replies you have garnered so far.
first they came for the ellipses
i do not use ellipses so i did nothing
then they came for capital letters
i do not use capital letters so i did nothing
then they came for lowercase letters
and between me and e e cummings we were too weak to stop them
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
That sounds troublesome if any kid can build a working gun unsupervised. I'm sure cartridges and bullets come next.
The UK has the most stringent gun laws in the EU (though Germany is close) and even there you may own rifles and shotguns. Belgians and the Czechs have very active firearm cultures that are not related to hunting. I know Switzerland is not a member, but they are in the region and they also have such a culture. The remaining states mostly have hunting related firearm cultures from what I have read.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
"If you don't like the "state" you live under then move or change it."
There really aren't any places to flee to any more. Most governments are turning oppresive, corrupt and are trampling civil liberties. Computers and networking are making it extremely easy to make a police states these days. When East Germany and the U.S.S.R. did oppresive police state it was man power intensive, its much easier now. There is almost no effective defense of civil liberties being mounted any more. Once your government stacks the courts in their favor there is almost no peaceful path to oppose stripping your civil liberties. The U.S. can and frequently does use "state secrets" provision to shut down any challenge to its power. Y
ou can pretend ballot boxes in the places that have them will make a difference but they seldom do.
In particular, the reach of the U.S. government has extended to most of the nooks and crannies on the planet, with the possible exception of places like China, North Korea and Iran which are sufficiently oppresive without any help from the U.S. The U.S. has military bases and FBI offices in a staggering number of countries. They've used rendition all over the world to snatch people, sometimes innocent people, off the streets to torture . With drone bases in the middle of all of the hard to reach places the U.S. will soon have total global coverage and the ability to assassinate by drone anyone, anywhere, with no judiicial oversight.
Its the down side of living on a small planet with no frontiers left and a civilization with accelerating technology development.
There isn't any place to go if you want to escape.
@de_machina
BAM!
Sent from my ENIAC
If you own the mill you can make yourself a firearm without consulting the ATF as is mentioned in the summary. 3d mills are considerably more expensive than 3d printers which is the only reason this story is a story at all.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
In US firearms law it is the receiver that is the identity of a gun.
I find it funny and a touch ironic that the state he's rallying against has no problem with him making weapons against them by private individuals.
"If you don't like the "state" you live under then move or change it."
Unless the public have lethal force options there is zero reason for the State to respect their will. "Changing" the State was done by the American Revolution.
Sometimes the only way to remove human obstacles is to take their lives, and under some onerous situations that is reasonable and good.
If you will not kill to be free and free others, how dare you say you deserve freedom you won't fight for? Fighting for freedom includes embedding the practical capability for revolution in the hands of the public. The Second Amerndment codified that RIGHT. The People have Rights under the Constitution, hence the wording.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
If the object is to limit firearms deaths, is it time to shift from regulating the weapons to regulating the explosives, such as gunpowder and ammunition?
I never understood why the ATF defined a "gun" in terms of its lower receiver. I assumed that it was because such a thing was difficult to make outside of a big gun factory, which would provide a decent point of control for ensuring that firearms would be sold only to people for legal purposes. (Yeah, that didn't work either, but that's a different question.)
But guns don't kill people: fast-moving bullets kill people. You're not going to regulate chunks of lead, but it seems not unreasonable to regulate the bits that explode, e.g. gunpowder and the bullets that contain it. I find it rather odd that I can walk into any gun store and buy explosives, in bulk, with few if any questions asked.
It seems to me that the notion of regulating the lower receivers has been a poor fit ever since milling machines became common, and 3D printers seem to make it completely pointless. Is it too late to try to regulate the explosives, or should we simply admit that it's time to wear Kevlar every time you leave the house and be continually prepared to pick off that guy behind you in the grocery store line before he pops you?
So Cody won't mind being the first victim of this I assume?
...the right plastics...
C4?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
There isn't any place to go if you want to escape.
There is always a place where nobody can get to you.. but there's no coming back.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I can't wait till I can punch someone in the face using a 3D model of me delivered to him via AirPrint.
Technology is Wonderful. I'm not saying weapons are good intrinsically - but neither are People.
"I believe in evading and disintermediating the state", hmmm, so does he use the highways payed for by state and federal taxes to pick up the parts needed to make the gun or used by USPS/UPS/FedEx etc. to deliver the parts? I'm sure if his house is on fire or he or a family member have a medical emergency that he'll be turning down help from the emergency responders.
These views express my own personal opinions, not those of the other voices in my head
"If you don't like the "state" you live under then move or change it."
There really aren't any places to flee to
Mars. You can go to Mars.
Its the down side of living on a small planet with no frontiers left and a civilization with accelerating technology development.
Oh yes, the frontiers, where any persecuted white man could escape from his oppressive government and start killing natives.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
Yeah, but given the guys trying to get you want to send you there anyway, what's the point?
"Unless the public have lethal force options there is zero reason for the State to respect their will."
so does this mean that assassinating your president is legal in your aim to change the government?
"Fighting for freedom includes embedding the practical capability for revolution in the hands of the public."
thats done all over the world without any "constitutional right"
i doubt i'll ever understand this constitutional right to bear arms in this day and age, 200 years ago when fighting for independence seemed reasonable when it was the wild west and no real coherent enforceable law. The armed forces and police, directed by the government, probably won't permit a violent revolution to take place in this modern day, they are too well organised
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
will be more panopticon. Let the plebs do whatever, and they spy on them.
Fugue for Aaron Swartz
You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars five thousand dollars per bullet You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.
I guess you don't know this, but it is much easier to make a bullet than a gun.
For example, here's a company that makes and sells bullet molds.
http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/black-powder-molds/black-powder-minie-bullet-molds/
Place nail here >+
Guns aren't hard to acquire now and even with decent gun control they probably won't be that hard to acquire in the future.
The problem with the US (well a problem for me) is the gun culture where having a gun is considered cool and manly, as a result lots of people have guns and feel normal keeping them and using them. Change the culture so gun ownership is weird, so that when you tell someone you own a device designed to kill people they give you an odd look and get uncomfortable, once that happens you'll see a real drop in guns and violence. I don't see 3D printed guns as being a big factor either way.
I stole this Sig
There isn't any place to go if you want to escape.
Soon on SlashDot: Download This Rocket - 3D printed rocket reliable up to Mars, plans for habitats being worked on.
Install windows on my workstation? You crazy? Got any idea how much I paid for the damn thing?
"If you don't like the "state" you live under then move or change it. It's okay to think subversive thoughts but there are lines."
Which one of the four defenses of liberty is that, again?
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
Depends if you're on the winning side. Today most of us would not approve of it because the president is not an oppressive dictator. (At least not enough to throw the country into civil war to any of you far right republicans who want to try to make some ridiculous point here.) You would either end up in jail for life or executed for murder. If, on the other hand, 80% of the country is rising up with you you just might get away with it. You might even be called a hero for it. And to your point about the police and military, if things got bad enough you might start seeing police, military units, politicians, etc. turning to your cause. This is all hypothetical of course, and means little, but look at some of middle easy countries where just this sort of thing started happening. But note it was the armed civilians who started it. The military units just started turning when the government started ordering them to shoot civilians. I think the idea of a civil war in this country is ludicrous, mostly because I can't see most of obese America getting off their fat ass to fight a civil war, but without at least the threat of it tingling in the back of their brain stems politicians really will do _whatever_ they want.
There isn't any place to go if you want to escape.
Alaska and Yukon still seems to have a frontier style of living, but it's cold most times of the year. You could also disappear into Brazil and some of the other South American countries. You could easily disappear into the Amazon. Even modern satellites have problems probing the dense jungle.
They didn't print the entire thing, and a 'plastic' lower is not some sort of achievement.
No coherent enforceable law? The people who wrote the constitution were living as citizens of the largest, most far-flung empire in the history of the world. There is a reason there was a saying "the sun never sets on the British empire." The laws of the Empire were most certainly enforced - although the state at that time was much less intrusive than most any government today. Mostly the Crown simply wanted their cut of the action - the source of the whole tax issue behind "no taxation without representation."
Because they had lived it, they wanted to ensure that not only would the people they installed in power after the revolution be answerable to the people and that their power be strictly limited in scope, but that this would remain true in perpetuity. That is why they created a complicated system of checks and balances that included not only a divided 3-branch government, but also guarantees of freedom for the 4th estate and lastly an armed populace as a final check to runaway power.
What most don't realize is guns wear out fairly fast with heavy use. Most guns will start showing signs of wear after a few thousand rounds so if they are approaching that with major parts of guns they are becoming serviceable. A .220 Swift rifle needs to be rebarreled after as little as 500 rounds. It can still last many years since it's not seen as something to use every day. Military weapons are designed to last longer which is the main attraction not the clips and pistol grips as anti gun people claim. If you are looking for simple self defense a printed gun may be adequate. I'd be more concerned with accuracy. Years ago they tried to make titanium pistols which I thought was a great idea and there are advantages but they could never get the accuracy up to an acceptable level. The thing that would keep me from trying a printed gun is safety. An error in production could make the pistol fail and you end up with a slide where your teeth used to be. I'm more interested in custom grips and making the stocks and grips custom fitted. Less safety issues and I don't see a legal challenge so long it conformed to legal lengths.
They must be using underpowered ammo. Watch the video. There's only a slight pop as each round fires, and little recoil. Compare firing an AR-15 with standard ammo.
I guess that would depend on their method.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I have changed my mind on it. I call for a handgun ban
You can keep your assault rifles. I don't care
You can have an elephant gun if you want. I don't care, but no more handguns.
That is all. No more concealed carry
You can wear that rifle on your back if you want though
could not care less
At least we know you are packing
no more handguns
If you really wanted to "evade and disintermediate the state," then why guns? Approximately 50% of the state power elite *are* gun nuts, firing up their base of petty authoritarians with NRA-approved rhetoric (while the other ~50% are firing up their base with anti-gun rhetoric, while serving the same masters). Pro-gun-hysteria only promotes the ends of one factions in our government oligarchy, in keeping the populace from rising up about *real* issues.
If you really want to circumvent the state, then how about reclaiming a vacant lot for a community garden (absentee landowners be damned); or get some kids interested in reading with some banned/subversive literature?
> The armed forces and police, directed by the government, probably won't permit a violent revolution to take place in this modern day, they are too well organised
That's what they want you to believe. Organization is one aspect of war. Nothing would incite unrest faster than rolling tanks on an interstate. A population faced with something different and scary is why it's called "unrest". Without the ability to intimidate or destroy infrastructure, the standard military options of the US are neutered. That's the military's purpose at a practical level, so I'm not worried about them shooting themselves in the foot by bombing city blocks from the air.
The primary attack vectors of a disfavored establishment will be misinformation and information control (as it is today). Once that breaks down, there's resource starvation (as it is today, remove or restrict weapons, control the water and chemical components, etc). There's no reason to believe the US government could withstand a sustained citizen backed guerrilla operation by a small city, much less multiple disparate populations, if they had homegrown supply lines. But this is simple fantasy, I agree.
The average person isn't smart enough to research or comprehend simple terminology tricks (sequester vs austerity vs cuts vs reductions vs fiscal responsibility)....and half of the people are dumber than that person. This includes members of the military and police. Almost all the information the US Government releases, is tailored for mass appeasement of citizens, regardless of their roles. If you don't understand why you might need a gun, I don't think you understand the difference between the stable prosperity of the 70's and the inevitable economic failures that have been previewed in Greece. Before the govt comes for some resource you won't have, you'll be fighting off lots of your fellow citizens. Count on it.
Looks like somebody realllllllyyyyy wants regulation of 3D printers, tool and die technology, etc.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Paranoia runs deep. Into your life it will creep.
We don't have guns and yet somehow aren't being robbed, raped and murdered nearly as much as you guys.
Actually, you are worse off.
The fact that you can't even defend yourself in your own home with anything, much less a gun, is a travesty.
Also thinking of the US as a generally violent place is wrong - violence is concentrated in a few ares of the country (like along the border) while any area that has populations as homogenous as countries in Europe having very little violent crime at all.
I've been all over Europe and there were many places I felt less safe than most states of the U.S.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Kill people just because you can is not a healthy attitude. Neither is making it easy for others to do it on a whim.
Having weapons is not the same as killing people just because you can. People can own weapons but only intend to kill when it is lawful to do so. The reasons why individuals should be allowed to have weapons have been discussed in detail in the context of the second amendment.
We should not have to make everything you should not do illegal.
On the other hand, laws should generally reflect what is right and wrong. The second amendment exists because people believed that an individual has a right to own a firearm, and therefore what Cody Wilson is doing is also not immoral. If you think that what he is doing is immoral, can you explain why the second amendment should exist?
So the question is how, short of making it illegal, do we stop cretins like this who think they have the right to do this sort of unhealthy social engineering?
Well you can try to argue to him your reasons why individuals shouldn't have weapons. Short of this, it seems strange to me that you think its possible to stop people doing what is their legal right, aside from giving them arguments as to why it's not their moral right to do so.
If you don't like the "state" you live under then move or change it. It's okay to think subversive thoughts but there are lines.
But there is nothing subversive about encouraging people to do something perfectly legal. If you think this is the case, perhaps you are the one living in the wrong country.
When it comes to anything involving large amounts of resources (such as building and testing significant numbers of prototypes) they pretty much are.
I don't think that even in the good old days you're herp-derping about people made their own muskets. Of the minority that did some didn't make their own clothes and bread (because they were professional gunsmiths) and the rest blew themselves up.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
So manufacture of a gun for personal use is legal, but growing a cannabis plant for personal use is a federal felony punishable with up to 5 years in prison? What am I missing here?
Agreed. This story is semantics playing on legal definitions by attention mongers. I'll pay more attention when they 3D print barrels, bolts and the other structural parts.
"There really aren't any places to flee to any more. Most governments are turning oppresive, corrupt and are trampling civil liberties. "
Nonsence, there are still civilised western democracies around with low rates of corruption and opression, I'm lucky to have been born and live in one.
Look at the OECD countries that constantly rate highly in quality of life, corruption, happiness and freedom ratings, if you want an idea of where to flee to.
And as an added bonus, none of those countries will have obsessive gun culture, and gun crime is relatively rare.
the old one just a classroom or two.
Why don't you name some of the countries and we will evaluate how really free they are and how insulated they are from the reach of the U.S. government.
@de_machina
The Amazon might be an option for a while but the rate at which its being deforested, especially in Brazil, I imagine you will probably be bumping in to loggers, ranchers and farmers and its only going to continue to shrink.
@de_machina
Even modern satellites have problems probing the dense jungle.
Unfortunately, so does modern medicine. OTOH, the teeth, mandibles and claws of thousands of species of wild critters will have no trouble penetrating you. Ditto for the spears of hostile tribes who will perceive you as somebody who is threatening their way of life, which you will be because more outsiders will follow you. Unless you're a truly special individual or a Bond villain, this isn't really much of an option.
Possibly, but you would need to do the math on how long it will take you to reach the point you can maintain a self sustaiing colony there. Until that happens you are completely dependent on Earth's governments to allow the launches you need to survive. You will be dependent on Earth for a long time for things like computers.
If someone actually managed to sustain a colony on Mars the next question would be how long it would be before Earth's governments try to exert control over it. As inept as they've been at venturing in to space you might have some breathing room, but as long as they control your launch pads to get supplies from Earth you are vulnerable.
I imagine seasteading would be a more viable option but sitting on a platform in the middle of the ocean probably wouldn't be the greatest life and being heavily dependent on supply ships coming from countries who might decide to cut them off also might be unpleasant.
@de_machina
I believe that the majority of politicians are honestly trying to do a good job. Unfortunately, they are in an environment where too much is expected of them and it's too easy to manipulate them. I will not deny that there are many examples of out-of-touch and outright corrupt politicians but this is bound to happen in any environment of power. The important thing to recognize that there are many politicians who will react positively to a flood of letters and there are many that will use a flood of letters to advance their agendas. Like the big players, us small players need to treat politicians as tools, selecting and manipulating them as the case may be.
You may consider me naive and I'm fine with that. All I ask is that, if you are willing to take a life that you be willing to cast a ballot; and that, if you are willing to promote the idea of armed revolt that you be willing to write letters to your elected officials. That way, if ever you find yourself staring down the sites of a gun at an agent of an oppressive regime, you'll know that you have the moral high ground because this is your last resort, not your first.
A pretty fair percentage of frontiersmen probably faced a fairly equal proposition of killing or being killed, some of them probably killed natives but I doubt all did.
The really organized and effective genocides usually originated from expansionist governments and their militaries.
@de_machina
I don't know about vastly, but yes there is significantly less gun crime in Europe. Not just that, less violent crime in general. But you are mistaken in saying Europe has banned guns. It hasn't. That leaves many other potential sources of our violence problem. Long working hours, wealth inequality, urban sprawl etc. The violence is concentrated in our cities though which isn't at all intuitive as poverty is at least as common in our rural areas. If you neglect our cities the violence is on par with other developed nations. I am hopeful that the study about lead and violence is accurate and we just have to wait a decade or so to watch the tail end of that effect taper off. It makes sense it would be worse here because of how much more we rely on automobiles for transportation.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
So, they invent new tech, and the only thing to print with the 3d printers is guns? Can't they think of anything more useful to do with the tech?
Years ago, when I was reloading ammo for the police department (I was 8!), they had several pictures of pistols that exploded. Mostly it was the joint at the top/back of the cylinder. This was usually do too to much or to powerful of a powder. You could easily double load the .357 mag rounds.
The smart cops kept an empty cylinder under the hammer; they did not want an accidental discharge by a blow to the hammer. The wise cops kept the next cylinder empty also; they had learned, the hard way, that the cylinder would rotate by itself, in the holster, putting a live round under the hammer.
Also firearms are not subject to any standards of safety or suitability. They are explicitly exempted by Congress.
By doing this so early, he is killing an industry before it starts. All he is doing is inciting the people in power to want to clamp down. It won't be long before all these machines ship with locks that don't let you print any copyrighted item or weapon.
How many people think that this printed gun design is going to be used for a "one-off" gun for personal use? Because, yeah, if I want a gun, I'm going to buy a 3D printer and print myself one. That makes a lot of sense.
This guy is an asshole. He's looking forward to the day when the USA is like Somalia and you get to bow and scrape to the local warlord. Does anyone really think that what the USA needs is MORE guns?
This kind of thing shows how worthless gun control is. The REALITY is just about anyone with desire can get the equipment and training to make an AR-15 lower, this just makes it easier. Now the idea behind gun control is to take the guns away from law abiding citizens so those guns can't get into the hands of criminials. However, criminals could always make their own guns and it is just getting easier. Therefore gun control will do nothing to prevent criminials from getting guns, or criminials making illegal guns for other criminials.
Gun control is about disarming citizens and nothing else. It has nothing to do with crime/criminals and never has.
Armed insurrection is the most fundamental right of a free people. Without the means and will to resist oppression, such oppression is inevitable. The gun grabbers are attacking both the means and the will of the people to secure their own liberty. They not only want to remove weapons from the hands of the public, they want to reshape the public's mindset (as evidenced by several posts in this very discussion) to innately oppose such self reliance. They call this "gun culture" but what they really mean is "we don't want people making decisions for themselves". They're using bully pulpits and school shootings to get attention now, but they'll use public schools and political brainwashing to see their ultimate goal is achieved. We're only one or two generations of clueless hipster progeny away from ceding any legitimate claim to armed resistance right into the hands of the tyrants.
Cody Wilson == ATF agent
If he weren't, he'd be in a jail cell by now.
Can you say Agent Provocateur? I knew you could!
On the contrary, other weapons should be in the hands of the people generally. That's what Amendment 2 means: defend the country the way Switzerland or Israel are defended. Militia is a term meaning basically everyone of military age. There was a robust history of militias being organized by folks outside government at times. Ben Franklin was one who did this (served as a private since he did not know military science..) in Pennsylvania when there was a border war with Maryland (which ultimately got adjudicated by the crown before too many people had been killed).
Storing weapons where they threaten others is something else, but keeping them and bearing them should be everyone's job. If mil stores were kept all over, with local committees having the keys, it would go far in the direction of enabling really robust self defence. (Consider too that a terrorist would need to remember that he couldn't threaten a town of minimally armed folks: they'd have the wherewithal to blow him away if attacked.)
The presence of a large standing army is a historical anomaly in the US and one that needs to be reduced, replaced by a more dispersed one (which would also make it harder for feds to go on military adventures abroad in undeclared wars, as they have repeatedly since 1945.
The armed forces and police, directed by the government, probably won't permit a violent revolution to take place in this modern day, they are too well organised
That's why you shoot the politicians, not the police.
of course, that's his whole point.
"3D printing == big scary techology that lets you print any weapon you want in unlimited quantities!1111!!!!11!!"
Get the hysteria, then get the bans.
Big has to be protected, Ya know!
They are not subjected to government standards of safety or suitability. But I've never heard of any complaints about SAAMI - and if you buy gun or ammo not rated by them, you have no-one to blame for any injuries but yourself.
This is like saying we want these features to provide content to our user-base, so we are jointly developing them. Thus creating a pseudo-standard. This is not a bad thing as long as they don't purposely develop it such that it circumvents privacy measures, or introduces "hidden features" that cant be disables and users don't want.
so anyone who thinks you are a human obstacle for their goals is ok to come and shoot you? thanks for sharing
When love is gone
there's always justice
when justice is gone
there's always force
when force is gone
there's always mom
so hold me mom
in your arms
your military arms
-- O' Superman
This is no more than printing the bumper ofva car and then driving it calling it a 3d printed car. It isn't and these 3d guns are just shells. Or can they print firing pins, barrels, and spring steel
"If you don't like the "state" you live under then move"
Have you actually looked at the immigration laws of other countries lately? *You* might want to move, but unless you have skills the other country wants, or a shitload of money, *and* have a spotless criminal record, most of the world (and certainly all of the first world) doesn't allow US citizens to migrate permanently just because they want to.
Profoundly schizophrenic individuals can now lock themselves in a room for a while and come out swinging.
Bravo, guys.
And damn you all to hell.
Need Mercedes parts ?
It's not a holy document. You have rights because you grant them to yourself, and you're willing to protect them. Fuck the paper it's written on.
And as an added bonus, none of those countries will have obsessive gun culture, and gun crime is relatively rare.
I always wonder about people who use the term "gun crime". Does anyone really think, "man I'm glad this guy is beating me to death with a hammer because guns are just so scary." In the nicest places to live violent crime in general is very rare, regardless of the tool used. I've heard it said (and there is some justification) that americans are obsessed with guns, but there are certainly particular countries in Europe just as obsessed with lack of guns, to the point that they use terms like "gun crime" without ever thinking about it.
The problem is that for firearms you need metal for the part that handles the bullet and the hot gasses in exess of 2000 degress K . So the idea that one can print ALL the components needed for a firearm is ridiculous. You can print the composite parts that do not see much heat but where the bullet goes will need machining not printing.
I never heard the expression "herp-derping," but it may be my new favorite expression, and I will try to use it 5 times tomorrow.
Should be a nice challenge,since I live in Manhattan.
So why is there a constitution exemption zone of 100 miles near the borders ?
Is that because nobody bothered to change it or because the (vocal) majority demanded it ?
There's a reason for that "You can tell it's Mattel" joke.
I've seen A1s with broken handguards and stocks from being transported neatly packed inside a crate, in the back of a truck, mostly over asphalt-paved roads, to a distance of maybe a dozen kilometers.
And those were real, honesttogod, real gun factory produced and tested M16A1s.
Everything else that makes up the system is there for operation and function, rather than strength. No one is talking about printing the critical parts.
It's a gun, not a club.
Every part needed to make it operational IS critical.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
You have a funny idea of what constitutes a "thought crime".
I hope he has a lot of liability insurance. Just think if somebody uses his 3D plot and builds their gun and their is a flaw and it causes bodily harm. Even the real manufacturers worry about that and figure it into the price of their firearms.
I'm all for sidestepping the rules and sticking it to the man when it's practically harmless, but this is a weapon that kills at long range and at high frequency we're talking about here.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Partyvan!
&V
&V
&V
&v
&V
&V
ALLLLLLlllllllllllll the way home!
Your stats are misrepresenting the facts, and you are cherry picking.
And that's besides those stats being more than a decade old, "newest" info shown there being from 2002.
2.8% of 68 million is a lot less than 1.2% of 314 million.
Try those numbers when described as per mil.
UK: 2.8% of population = 1753948 = 1753â
US: 1.2% of population = 3766968.48 = 3766â
USA's 1.2% is 2.1 times more than UK's 2.8 percent.
Also...
Why didn't you copy those other crime stats?
Like murders with firearms:
UK: 14
US: 9369
Or murders committed by youths:
UK: 139
US: 8226
Or prisoners:
UK: 78753
US: 2019234
Or total crimes:
UK: 6523706
US: 11877218
Oh and... According to those stats, you are comparing number 1 and number 2 countries in the world, by their total crimes.
Now... I don't have the data right here, but something tells me that there are countries in the world where there is a LOT more crime going on than in UK and the USA.
So basically, all you've proven up there is your own bias and a proclivity to cherry pick the stats.
Were you actually trying to pose as a "gun nut" in order to show them in even worse light?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Second off: none of this stuff can be done "on a whim".
A week ago you couldn't do it at all. Five years ago 3D printers were way too expensive for hobbyists and rather large. It won't be long before guns and other, more powerful weapons can be fabricated by anyone very cheaply.
The limiting factor is the availability of explosives. Guns need ammo with gunpowder in it, bombs obviously need some kind of explosive material. All that stuff is already readily available. In fact you could just turn the gas on, wait half an hour and remotely detonate it if you just wanted to cause some random mayhem. Most people don't seem to be interested in that, so the question becomes will the availability of 3D printed guns change that?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Of course there were. Don't be silly. Most guns were made by a single guy in a shop. It's all about having the right tools. Personally, one of my hobbies is trying to build everything, at least once. Guns are not complicated, and one of the first things I did myself. I've blacksmithed my own kitchen knives (a lot harder than the gun) I've built a truck from parts out of a junkyard. I've replaced broken parts on that same truck by putting them in a sand mold to get their shape and then smelted them myself. You can do anything you want if you're clever, have access to the internet and are persistent.
Expect the NRA lobby to suddenly be against 3d Printers because they are suddenly in favor of guns being licensed, tracked, and regulated.
Unless the public have lethal force options there is zero reason for the State to respect their will.
No wonder the US has so many problems. Lack of grown-ups.
We just got a Replicator 2 at my work. We're printing with PLA (polylactic acid), which is ok for lots of stuff. But I can't help but wonder how much better the sgtructural properties would be if I could buy PLA filament with say 0.5 volume % carbon nanotubes in the mix. Does anybody know of (1) sources of reinforced filament materials for additive fusion 3D printers (2) anybody who has a DIY for making your own filament materials for said printers?
At 5 per day and 15 rounds a squirrel (those buggers can really move!) 90 rounds is just enough to make sure I get my full quota every day!
When it comes to anything involving large amounts of resources (such as building and testing significant numbers of prototypes) they pretty much are.
How much is "significant numbers"? An amateur group ought to be able to build hundreds a year.
I don't think that even in the good old days you're herp-derping about people made their own muskets. Of the minority that did some didn't make their own clothes and bread (because they were professional gunsmiths) and the rest blew themselves up.
The previous author didn't say anything about the "good old days" much less "herp-derp" about them. And a lot of advanced weaponry was made by individual gunsmiths, not large businesses.
I'm sure there's somewhere with pina coladas, and getting caught in the rain.
Armed insurrection is simply not a realistic possibility, because those who would do it have been trained from birth that there is only one circumstance under which it's warranted, and that will never happen. Those who influence public opinion have ensured that gun nuts will never get upset with governments taking away rights so long as the only right not taken away is the right to buy guns from the manufacturers who basically run the NRA.
The government can persecute whistleblowers all it wants, and gun nuts will do nothing. The government can round up and intern US citizens based entirely on where their ancestors recently came from, and gun nuts will do nothing. The government can do as much asset seizure as it wants, and gun nuts will do nothing as long as it's not guns being taken. The government can perform drone strikes wherever it wants without declaring war, and gun nuts will do nothing. The government can extrajudicially assassinate US citizens, and gun nuts will do nothing.
As long as it only happens to "them", gun nuts will do nothing. It will always only happen to "them".
Nobody will take your guns away. It isn't going to happen. All they need to do is keep telling you that "they" are going to take your guns away, and that will preoccupy your thoughts to the point where you won't notice or care about any other injustice.
Enjoy your magical talisman, if it makes you happy. It won't keep the bogeyman away, because the bogeyman is us.
Which one of the four defenses of liberty is that, again?
As much as I think that a stupid meme coined by a former president of the John Birch Society should be the standard by which the debate is set, freedom of movement is one of the more fundamental rights there is.
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As a part of the ban on "assault weapons" (because there are weapons we use in non-assult fashion), all 3D printers are now banned. Along with rubber bands and legos.
It's doubleplusgood don't ya know...
Sure, the frontiers are dangerous for those heading to them, but my intent was to highlight the attitude that are places that were wild and free from government, that one could 'escape' to, where in fact there was no place that was not lived in and ruled by somebody. So the idea that you could go somewhere and be free of the shackles of government and having to play nice while living amongst others means that you thought the people living there didn't matter, and their land was yours to do whatever you wanted with.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
Just be glad it's not gun on gun crime. That's when you know the gun community has degenerated into barbarism.
No, you kidnap and stab them, so that cannot blame "evil gun owners".
The Amazon never has been the great emptiness assumed by Europeans, except for the beginning of the 16th century when introduced diseases killed almost everyone. There were large civilizations in the area prior to the Spanish and Portuguese arrivals, and today loggers and prospectors compete for space with native peoples.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Look what happened to Gabrielle Giffords. Is that something to be proud of?
And why would all 3D printers be based on extrusion methods?
It's like asking, "but what if my PC attached to the 3D printer suffers BSOD?!"
Well, you don't have to be using Microsoft then, now do you?
There are 3D printers which can do metal, and not just ones which can do plastic.
"Guns are not complicated, and one of the first things I did myself."
A "gun" is one thing. A nice piece of machinery with a good rifled barrel is another. Did you manage the latter?
By the way: I wasn't trying to be critical or sarcastic. I am just curious.
The name Barrett comes to mind as a good example.
A few reminders for you, memory man:
1) Technology has changed. The playing field between the amateur and the professional soldier is much less level these days.
2) With the assistance of France and, IIRC, Spain.
3) Finally, the way your government is chosen has changed. Are you that dumb that you'd elect someone like King George?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I look forward to the day when we all look at people who own guns in crowded areas as crazy. Not patriots, not freedom fighters. Crazy a-holes who don't belong in civil society. They claim they are some how defending society, but anyone who is only civil through threat of violence is not civil at all.
Adam Smith didn't prove anything more than people will prefer to betray each other and not cooperate. For some reason, people like things that are consistent and even if that consistency is betrayal, it gives hope and comfort.
...manufacturing one for personal use is _still_ legal.
No, that's why 2nd amendment serves as a deterrent. Just like Policeman in many instances serve as a deterrent -- they are not actually going and per-emptively killing civilians.
So much power behind 2nd amendment is not in violent confrontation -- but in ability to deter unconstitutional activities.
Sometimes it's hard making subtle jokes.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
There is nothing "natural" about property - it is a human concept, built on cognitive dissonance.
We imagined it, built our society around it, so we claim it to be true.
In reality, you don't OWN even the air in your lungs, and even your flesh had to be grown by your mother.
Ownership means having control over something.
How can you have control over something that existed and will continue to exist even after you cease to?
If anything, things that you think you own actually own you. They have a higher capacity for existence and as for control - you are providing it by claiming ownership over them.
Want proof? One could take away from you one of your things, creating emotional and other responses in you (but none in your things) - thereby exerting control over you through the things you "own".
You might even be willing to do their bidding in order to get your things back.
Now, a right to USE... That's just Newtonian physics.
THAT'S natural.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
We heard the same arguments from the music industry when cassettes came out, than CDRs and cheap storage. Just because a tool CAN be used to break a law, does not mean the tool should be outlawed or restricted.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
You're only saying that to get on my good side while you find a way to steal my credit cards and my stuff.
I completely agree.
I also find the notion of ownership as "an inalienable natural right" to be rather... hilarious.
Not only does it evoke visions of a crotchety old man grabbing at the dirt at his feet, trying to stuff it into his pockets, shouting "Mine! Mine! Go away! Don't touch it! This planet is mine!" - it's funny cause if it was so inalienable and natural, why do we need laws and rules to govern and protect it?
Breathing is natural. Do we have laws and regulations regarding that? Can you prevent someone from doing that (And only that. No suffocating now. That's also illegal.) by passing a law or by regulation?
Or being alive. Can you pass a law that will prevent someone from being alive? Not killing them or hurting them or making them do that to themselves - banning them from living.
Or dying. That one can't be outlawed either.
That's inalienable. Natural.
Stuff like freedom and "pursuit of happiness" are natural - but not inalienable. Both can be taken away by strength or by law.
Stuff like property is neither inalienable OR natural. It is just... a custom of our society.
And like you said - ownership is a good thing, but frankly...
When I think about it, I realize that I don't really need or want to own most things (or even all things).
I want access to them. Or maybe not even that.
Having a choice between access to cheese or to Mona Lisa... I'm sorry Leonardo.
As for the joke... Besides the whole "Mine! Mine!" thing...
It was about insinuating that humans don't come to this world with gun (or anything else) in hand, and that should someone be born with a gun instead of a hand they'd have a rather unpleasant time... pleasing themselves.
Thus, a sad puberty.
P.S. The Slashdot quote at the bottom reads: "He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion" :D
See? The universe agrees. Why else would that quote appear randomly like that?
IT IS A SIGN! YAY!
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I believe the correct solution to the assault style weapon problem lies in the size of the magazine. If Washington can get off their collective arses and pass a bill limiting magazines to 10 rounds, all these assault weapons will become just expensive phallic symbols for the juvenile a-holes out there who think they make them tough. Oh yeah, also in this law, put a rider stating that if you are caught with a magazine with a capacity higher than 10 rounds, there is a 5 year mandantory jail sentance which cannot be served concurrantly with other sentances. I myself have an assault type rifle with magazines for 15, 20, and 30 rounds. I will be happy to turn them in if such a law is passed. I purchased this assault rifle years ago and have found it to be the most useless weapon in my collection. It's fun to shoot but it is essentially useless unless I become mentally deranged and want to kill mass numbers of people, which, is basically the only real use for these weapons. So if these techie dildos do indeed perfect programs that allow idiots to print out large capacity magazines, then, those using them had better not show them to their friends since, who knows who may turn them in?
My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!
kudos on the kitchen knives and truck. Get back to us when you make a functional TV
Am I the only one here that is tired of hearing about these gun obsessed idiots, when there are so many far more worthwhile products being developed almost everyday in this exciting new field?
If you too want to see a much more rounded view of the subject, then I can recommend two newly launched books on the subject that are far more interesting that the repeated (printed) gun debates that are taking place here, on a seemingly weekly basis.
Hod Lipson and Melba Kurman have just released a great new book on the subject entitled "Fabricated: The New World of 3D Printing", that is released through Wiley and priced at $17.13.
'Fabricated tells the story of 3D printers, humble manufacturing machines that are bursting out of the factory and into homes, businesses, schools, kitchens, hospitals, even the fashion catwalk. The magic happens when you plug a 3D printer into today's mind-boggling digital technologies. Add to that the Internet, tiny, low cost electronic circuitry, radical advances in materials science and biotech and voila! The result is an explosion of technological and social innovation.'
http://www.amazon.com/Fabricated-The-World-Printing-ebook/dp/B00B9V5W34/ref=pd_sim_kstore_1
An independent alternative entitled "3D Printing: The Next Technology Gold Rush - Future Factories and How to Capitalize on Distributed Manufacturing" is available at a fraction of the price, and looks at the technology from an entrepreneurs perspective, with lots of interesting 'Practical advice on how this technology can be leveraged as a successful business in today's economy.'
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B1UKZC6
Please, please can we be inspired to talk about something more interesting than how this new technology is being hijacked by a handful of gun nuts. Let's talk about some of the more fascinating developments such as prosthetics, UAVs, upcycling or ultra efficient geometries. Please, anything but more damn guns !
There is a public safety issue with being able to print usable weapons; what will you do when your kids get into an argument, print a weapon, and one kills his brother or sister? or his friends? Note that I use the male pronoun because girls are unlikely to kill. Hobbes Leviathan excluded women for reasons, not the least of which is that women don't war against each other, he was writing in the civil war in England, and he wasn't including women in his statement that "the state of nature of man is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short".
Killing and fighting are two different things.
Listening to Americans talk about government makes me think the frontier-philosophy is way past its due date. I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, as frontier immigrants in a land the super powers of Europe was fighting over and a hostile native population. But that doesn't make it a good philosophy to build a society upon.
That Americans today seem to think they're waging a war against their government is perhaps a symptom..?
And killing for freedom is inherently self-contradicting. You're taking away freedom by killing not protecting it.
Defining Statistics and Social Research
He probably bought this book from Dixie Gun Works for $11.95, "BO1608 Hand Rifling A Muzzle Loading Rifle Barrel At Home Book".