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Backdoor Found In TP-Link Routers
New submitter NuclearCat writes "Polish security researchers have found a backdoor in TP-Link routers, allowing an attacker to not only gain root access to the local network, but also to knock down the router via a CSRF attack remotely. (Further information — Google translation of Russian original). According to the researchers, TP-Link hasn't yet responded to give an answer about issue. The good news: Users who replaced their TP-Link firmware with Open/DD-WRT firmware can sleep well."
With every government in the world wanting their own backdoors to everything these days, designing firmware for modern routers must be akin to being a carpenter tasked with building a house to satisfy 300 different feuding owners.
The H Security: Treacherous backdoor found in TP-Link routers
OS Reviews: Free and Open Source Software
Given the relatively dismal reputation of vendor firmware on most routers, and the distinctly limited opportunities for software-differentiation in the 'well, it sits there and makes the internet wireless, right?' networking market, I honestly have to wonder why most vendor firmware isn't just thinly-skinned Open or DD WRT out of the box...
TP-Link is the cutest name. Toilet Paper Link... It wipes the competition, literally.
From the summary:
The good news: Users who replaced their TP-Link firmware with Open/DD-WRT firmware can sleep well."
(emphasis mine)
So, this is not important to me, I am not worried about intrusion from my users. Unless someone writes a Linux virus to set up a tftp server and send the request URL.
So I guess the router is about worth toilet paper, huh?
At least one person wasn't simply glancing at the article... Thank you.
LAN side only, seems to be the firmware upgrade app since it requires the sending computer to be on the LAN, and providing a TFTP connection.
"Update2: to works on WAN port if http admin is open WAN"
Well there's a gaping hole, most of the routers I've owned, you can enable the admin on the LAN or the LAN+WIFI, I've never seen one you can open the admin page to the WAN.
Still, not quite the hyperbole in the Slashdot summary though!
This reminds me of the vonage PAP2 case where you could unlock the PAP2 device by intercepting the tftp connection the device made to vonage the first time it got plugged in after you bought it from the store. You would redirect the connection to your own tftp server and basically tell the device to unlock itself.
The device was worth 70$ and vonage sold it for 10$ locked.
Some devices can easily be told to reconfigure themselves by simply telling them to download a configuration file through tftp, All you need is a running tftp server and sometimes IP/ports redirection and/or fake DNS entries really...
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
You can't.
Write failed: Broken pipe
Yes, then TP-Link sends a Chinese hacker/technician to your house to exploit this LAN-only security problem.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
You are off to a good start by using the <tt> tag. Now post this question on every article for a week and your submission will go away.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
If I keep hearing Linux is no more inherently secure than OSX or Windows, then why should one presume that there's some reason that OpenDD or OpenWRT should inherently be any more secure than standard router firmware?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I got my first TP-Link Router last night. Turns out I'm not going to use it because my ISP (Frontier) doesn't support configuring the crappy router they provided, into bridge mode, which would allow me to make use of it.
Sloppy to hard code the request. But then again, suppose they forced you to enter the password for the router, you wouldn't be able to reconfigure it if you've forgotten the password. That 'easysetup app' of theirs would be worth anything.
"I'd not have even cared about it one jot and it would disappear into the void of things that have been patched already. It's the non-response that gets me"
I bet the TPLINK guy didn't even know why they would do that. He'll just be a PR guy who doesn't know squat and doesn't want to say anything that might get him into trouble. So the non-answer doesn't bother me.
The polish guys other bug looks more interesting, since that is something that should never have been. Now I can imagine wanting to share files from a drive across the WAN using FTP, so an FTP share open to WAN is a likely situation. Yet they haven't check for path traversal on the FTP directory and it can access everything (even writable). Now that is sloppy without a redeeming feature.
That's really troubling too, because after I read this, I went to change my network's root password and I couldn't find where to do that!
After RTFA it's clear they mean root access to that router, which is the same thing that anyone would have inferred from the mere mention of "back door" anyway. So why add the confusing phrase about the network?
The world is already stupid enough. There's no need to go to extra trouble to make it stupider. That's wasted effort.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
192.168.xxx.xxx is LAN-only.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Today, we got some feedback from TP-Link Poland:
1) Apologies for their earlier lack of contact
2) Confirmation of the vulnerability on WAN site (ie. if you have your web admin put on WAN - you are affected).
3) Info about imminent press release
4) Offer to have some other models of the TP-Link devices - for security tests
-- ms, sekurak.pl team
I have TP-Link - I wondered why the laundry man kept turning up...
I've used one TP-Link device ever and it was a DSL modem since AT&T's price was absurd. Also the responsiveness and hardware specs weren't bad for the price. If you want the mother of all routers for fairly cheap, the ASUS RT-N12 (B1) is the king. It uses all Realtek wireless chips. It intercepts initial webpage requests and logs in password-less for initial configuration via its control panel so no typing in IPs. It adapts its IP structure automatically (increments it to 2) around AT&T's modems that purposely use 192.168.1.1 to screw with people. It can be set as a repeater or an access point too so you can drop 4 wired ethernet ports wirelessly on the other side of your house without actual wires. If a machete severs your cable to the modem, it intercepts web requests and pops up and tells you specifically that the link cable between the modem and router was disconnected. I use it at my shop and I've never had to reboot it even after 100+ wireless and wired clients. And this router runs about $40. Take that, TP-Link.
Yeah great, first thing to do when you get a new router. But you do realize that you are on slashdot and neither my father nor my kids or any of my friends know slashdot or would dare to flash a new router... In other words 99% of the population do know everything about facebook and angry birds, but nothing about router systems, security, backdoors or anything closely related that isn't an icon they can click or touch...
"People who are willing to sacrifice essential freedoms for security deserve neither freedom nor security."
B F
a) from whom are you hearing this no more secure...? b) in this very special case the mentioned Open/DD-WRT system doesn't have this security hole?
"People who are willing to sacrifice essential freedoms for security deserve neither freedom nor security."
B F
I just upgraded a WR841ND v7 from the official firmware to DD-WRT today. Seems to work fine, the configuration interface is friendly, and there's no more occasional lag when playing computer games online.
If I keep hearing Linux is no more inherently secure than OSX or Windows, then why should one presume that there's some reason that OpenDD or OpenWRT should inherently be any more secure than standard router firmware?
I don't know how the comparison to Mac/Win makes applies here, but anyway, here's my theory... OpenWRT is developed by a larger, open community which also wants to offer long-term support for older devices. A manufacturer stock firmware of a router (even if Linux-based) can be slapped together quite sloppily and the manufacturer moves on to next projects, leaving security holes and router-crashing bugs behind.
Yeah, where are these guys? Why aren't they printing out secure routers and other hardware? In fact, why isn't anybody? That will really scare the tyrants...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Man, it would be so refreshing if more often the case was "${company_name} responded immediately and is working on a security fix"...
Where's the pride behind the products?
I'm having trouble wrapping my feeble mind around that one.
Users who replaced their TP-Link firmware with Open/DD-WRT firmware can sleep well.
On what basis?
On the basis of the security updates that occur, every single time a kernel or userland vulnerability is discovered?
I have yet to see a security release for DD-WRT. I see updates, randomly, which have nothing to do with security issues. Certainly the stable branches of both projects releases rarely.
Note, I'm not faulting these guys -- these are nice firmwares. However, to think that they are somehow more secure, when they fall prey to the same problem -- THAT IS, NO UPDATES DUE TO SECURITY ISSUES, is strange. These firmwares are just as insecure as stock firmwares.... in fact, likely MORE insecure, because what stock firmware has SSH exposed? Or other userland tools exposed?
Stock firmwares seldom have fluff modz, whereas one of the strengths of DD-WRT and others is to expose these services on user request.
If I look at .. say, Debian, and compare the number of security updates to the kernel, to tools like ssh, or dropbear, or apache, or whatever userland tools these routers are using.. I see *no updates*. None. Nada. Hell, the last month has seen likely 40 updates to the kernel for security issues, some of them serious remote DDoS. I've seen lots of updates to tools that DD-WRT incorporates in its userland, too. Again, severe security updates.
Where were the automatic, day-of-announcement updates for DD-WRT? OpenWRT? Until these tools incorporate Debian (or other copycat distros) updates with tools like apt-get, these things are WORSE than standard router firmwares.
What we need is to standardize these router firmwares on something like Debian.
Bullshit.
Broadcom does not even need to pay to make drivers. Open source the documentation and let others make the drivers.
Broadcom is trying to avoid the fact that they make a commodity product. If they would acknowledge that they do, they could benefit from drivers that were compatible with multiple vendors chipsets.
CS students no longer take economics classes?
Their product is NOT commodity; their functionality IS commodity. This is an INTENTIONAL line in the sand they are drawing to keep the products legal in the US, since you are not permitted to license an SDR in the US except as the aggregate of both the hardware for the SDR and the firmware which gets loaded into the hardware, and the driver which drives the hardware. This is an FCC regulation intended to keep people from easily eavesdropping or interfering with Military, Police, Fire, and other emergency services bands. It also makes it more difficult to turn a cheap SDR into a scanner by running it in receive-promiscuous mode, which would let you hear cell phone and other end-pointed transmissions, as well as allowing you to fake the IMEI for the device in order to clone other people's phones.
They DO NOT WANT an open source driver that documents their hardware interfaces so someone can clone their chip registers, since documenting the operation and order of operations on their chip registers represents disclosure of Trade Secret information not protectable by patents.
They would prefer that this never happen, since it means that if they have a large chunk of the market, they can keep other people from entering the market by making them work to get parity with their closed source drivers shipping in a third party OS, like Windows. Buy Windows? Broadcom just works, buy someone else's chips? Good luck, since you will have to fight to get your drivers signed, and fight Microsoft with getting them to ship your drivers with their OS so that your competing chipset also "just works".
It's an intentional non-monopoly anticompetitive practice (and therefore this side of the legal line) which raises costs for your competitors to the same levels as your costs, since you already have sunk costs that you need to recover. Making it so some clone factory can take advantage of all your sunk costs, and no matter what you do, they will undercut your pricing in the market.
This is EXACTLY the same reason the old Adaptec SCSI controllers went to the HIM architecture, and EXACTLY why the Diamond Viper video cards required a matched driver for the PAL coding matching the BIOS with the card, which made them a bitch to use without thunking down to INT 10. Both companies were preventing their cards being cheaply cloned and being used with the drivers they wrote. John Hamm, who made the decision on the HIM layer at Adaptec was later the CEO of one of the startups I worked at.
Note that the video driver stuff is not the same; the 3D engine uses patented processes in software, so they can't Open Source those without granting the license to use their patents, royalty free, so long as the code is licensed under similar terms.
Hardware accelerated decode for H.264 and MPEG would require licensing the Sorenson patents on a per chip basis. By pushing the cost of licensing off to the OS vendor as part of the licensing of the OS, they make it someone else's problem, which brings down the unit cost on the GPUs, so long as they are not used for that purpose, and you end up with bulk licensing applying across multiple GPUs when it comes from the OS vendor, which spreads the pain around to your competitors. So even though the decode could be fully done in hardware, there's always a software loopback part that requires the license, since the hardware won't do it on its own without the loopback.
I've got a TP Link router, and if I try to visit the backdoor URL, the router shuts off its wireless. An attacking webpage would just need to put that URL in an img tag for example to trigger my browser to open it.
I'm currently in Shanghai and the router is a unique chinese model, so I have no idea if it's compatible with OpenWRT / DD-WRT.
TP-Link is really the cheapest of the most low end Chinese own-brand Junk. Hopefully open-source hardware will become more common making this kind of backdoor harder to go unnoticed for so loon
TP-link deliberately introduced a backdoor. you can do that on OSX or Windows, too, and it's no harder.
the real issue here is that if TP-link shipped Open-WRT with a TP-link skin and some kind of mostly-automatic updating, they'd be far better off. vendors don't seem to understand that open-source isn't just a shortcut, but a better way to support their systems.
Right here on slashdot, actually. The argument typically given is that the *only* real reason Linux doesn't have any major problems with viruses is because its desktop share is too small, not because the operating system is somehow proofed against such types of attacks.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I've had a customer that used a TP-Link router, and their software required MSSQL port to be forwarded from the internet to their desktop (for motel software - updating reservations, etc).
I wanted to firewall the Windows machine to only allow a subnet in from their supplier, who agreed all other incoming traffic on mssql port should be blocked. Unfortunately when I port forwarded it from the TP-Link router, the router also SNAT the traffic coming in so all requests on the mssql port were coming from the router and not the source.
Who does that?
I've gotten rid of any TP-Link devices I've seen at customers since.
You accused me of abusing you as an AC, which I did not. You then began abusing me as an AC, in your usual style, whilst claiming not to be APK.
You accused me of sockpuppeting as an AC, which I did not. You then began sockpuppeting support for your posts, in your usual style, whilst claiming not to be APK.
You accused me of stalking unrelated comments and abusing you as an AC, which I did not. You then began abusing me as an AC - yes, in your style again - whilst claiming not to be APK.
What was that about hypocrisy? I think it only correct that I defer to your experience on the matter.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
You call me a simpleton yet you cannot distinguish between a simple response thread and being stalked.
You then call me a hypocrite as you proceed to stalk my posts. Somehow the irony escapes you.
You are the most childish 50-year old man I've ever encountered.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Keep banging on, idiot. You've no more understanding of fact than you do of logic.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
You have no understanding of statistics. Your argument is obvious and transparent false logic that any schoolkid could see through, yet you remain resolutely clueless as to why your list is laughable, irrelevant and pathetically childish.
You'll have to do better than that if you want to prove anything, apk.
Go on - post it again, please. Every time your idiot list comes up you merely confirm that you do not understand why it is irrelevant.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
You and whoever the hell AC is, can both go have your own private little war somewhere else, kthanks.
You and whoever the hell AC is, can both go have your own private little war somewhere else, kthanks.
You're quite right and I apologise.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
250++:1 against ya's better stats than you have
What is this? Is this even English?
Don't tell us you even begin to understand statistics since you lack a fundamentally crucial element they require in samplesets. Have you even taken them formally in an accredited collegiate academic environment? I doubt it since you don't realize that much. Keep on "eating your words" fool.
Perhaps then you can quote the section in the textbooks where it describes the correct use of cherry-picked data to back up an argument?
You clearly don't understand the most basic premise of the topic at hand or you wouldn't make such laughable claims.
Have you even taken them formally in an accredited collegiate academic environment?
Once again you demonstrate your fallacious logic. By your thinking you'd never know if your car had broken down unless you were a qualified mechanic. You'd never be able to tell if the kettle had boiled without being an expert in thermodynamics.
Your position is utter poppycock and very childish for a man of your age. You'll have to do better, apk.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Math shows ya beaten by 250++:1 n' not a "cherry picked" set fool. Just 250 of your fellow /. forums members who liked apk's posts vs. your drivel here http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 You fail and had your big mouth slapped shut by your own peers on this forums.
So, you don't think your data is cherry-picked? My incompetent friend, your behaviour defines the term! What else do you think it refers to? Childishly denying the (blindingly obvious) truth is an apk hallmark it would seem.
There's really little point arguing with someone who is wilfully ignorant such as yourself. I guess it's not surprising that an arrogant, self-important fool like you is prepared to squirm and lie to any extent to 'save face'.
I know I've upset you because after accusing me of stalking your comments, posting AC to support my argument and posting AC pretending to be someone else, you yourself have gone on to do exactly that. You're even posting this as if you were an unrelated AC to support poor old apk. How pathetic ARE you, manchild apk?
These are the tactics of a tantrummy teenager who hasn't the skills to defend himself, not a fifty-something-year-old man who should have grown up by now.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
'Expressing Yourself' when ya had to "eat your words" http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491
Keep stalking me apk and keep pretending to be someone else; it's all you've got.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Denial is the last refuge of the utterly defeated. Who are these 'peers' of mine that 'slapped my mouth shut' then? All I've seen are AC posts by you pretending to be someone else. Where are the others that agree with you? They do seem a little thin on the ground.
Go check out the comments made by other Slashdotters about you after this post by one of your groupies. Now try to tell me you're a well-liked part of the /. community! HAHAHAHAhahahaha!
Give me a break - you're the laughing stock of Slashdot!
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Denying yer fail here @ 250++:1 vs. ya fool http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 ? Show us yer the one posting those constantly downmodded trolling posts of yers to apk that everyone on slashdot downmods instantly too? Talk about givin yerself away that yer doin those troll posts. Ya fail again as usual. Ya won't even answer a simple question in the subject (and yea, 250 opinions that put yours into the crapper is greater than your 1 trolling one).
So now you're accusing me again of pretending to be someone else and stalking you as an AC? My delusional friend, this is the behaviour that you yourself have been reduced to. I however have never shied away from calling you out on your puerile behaviour from the honest position of my own handle. I am so far ahead of you in rationality, reasoned debate, general intelligence, articulation and even humility that I simply have no need to stoop to your level.
You are genuinely deluded if you think your cherry-picked 'sample set' of upmods proves anything other than your own pathetic obsessive-compulsive lunacy. What kind of retard takes the time to compile lists like that? What kind retard does so thinking the list can prove their points for them?
APK, it is you who is that kind of retard, as demonstrated by your own actions. I really don't need to do anything to help because you make my own arguments for me time and time again.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
250 of your /. peers > than yer failed 1. No denying it. Ya failed http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491
No denying it? Mate, from the senseless knee-jerk posts I see from you I'd say you are the one in denial, not me.
Yet again I see no attempt at rational rebuttal of my argument that your list is another dishonest attempt to twist the truth. You even tried to suggest that I couldn't call you out on your stupidity because I'm not endowed with a degree in statistics!
APK, I've met nine-year-olds with better reasoning skills than you demonstrate. You, a fifty-year-old man. So act your age: man up and admit to yourself that you are in need of some professional help for your broken, broken brain.
That might be your first real act of bravery, it might mark the beginning of your transition from a filthy, slithering coward who tells lies and runs from rationality to someone actually worthy of debate.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Ya stalked apk off topic 4 weeks in yer post history. Ya failed http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 in that link when 250 opinions of yer slashdot peers totally trashed ya too! Ya obviously can't stand it but there's no denying math or yer post history showin ya stalkin apk for weeks. Ya fail again. I love it. Hahahaha.
No, I didn't stalk you. I replied to your whine "Everyone is wrong wrong WRONG for downmodding me" with reasoned argument. I must have hit a nerve (how DARE anyone challenge the great APK) because you then proceeded to publicly demonstrate the insertion of a large, spiny bug into your anus for all to see.
Since then you have displayed a repetitive pattern of attack; you accusing me of a deed, then obviously itching and scratching at yourself until you can't help it any longer before finding yourself compelled to do that very same thing against myself.
It's farcical, it's laughable, and it's FUCKING OFF TOPIC.
So please, start acting your age - you're over fifty after all - and cease your off-topic, childish commentary on my unrelated posts.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Math shows ya beaten by 250++:1 n' not a "cherry picked" set fool.
No, buddy, what you are using is meth, not math. Nobody here on /. would recognise what your irrational wailings as math, however drug use would go a long way to explaining your ridiculous behaviour.
What we have here in APK is delusion, probably schizophrenic in nature or as the result of chemical abuse. Either way, get yourself some help man.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Since you're still having trouble with this basic concept, allow me to assist:
1. You know damn well I wasn't comparing the number 250 to the number 1. That is your invention and another example of your intellectual dishonesty.
2. I am not a troll, I am merely responding to your snivelling posts. Speaking the truth does not make me a troll, but your reactions do make you a loser.
3. You like to claim that people have to eat their words yet you say this quite independently of the fact that you have no argument and have managed to achieve absolutely nothing substantive with all your wailing.
4. Were I suffering from you mental problems, I could very well come up with a list far greater than the pathetic 250 up-mods you've accumulated in your eight years of snivelling. The reason I do not is that I have a life, friends and a balanced brain, all of which mean that I have no need for obsessive-compulsive list-making behaviour such as yours.
5. You know all this to be true but are too childish to face facts, so you run away from the issue by claiming you've forced people to 'eat their words' and hiding behind your nonsensical list.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Funny ya end up eatin yer words here then Sardaukar86 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 after stalking apk like ya did off topic for weeks. Served ya right.
You pathetic man-child, still pretending to be someone else. Grow up!
It's a shame for you that at your level of intelligence you are incapable of distinguishing between a serious answer to your (grizzling, feeble) question and a campaign of stalking.
You really should know by now, given the effort you've put into same against me, hypocrite.
Don't get upset at me, you''ve only got yourself to blame for this situation.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
No, APK. Once again you are lying to support your argument. Do you have absolutely no self-respect at all? How can you face yourself in the mirror when you behave in such an ugly, immature manner?
We've already established that your evidence-of-lunacy list does not constitute 250 Slashdotter opinions in your favour, they are merely 250 instances of up-moderation of your posts over a very, very long time period. You have no way of proving the uniqueness of any of these up-mods. Given your lack of credibility I suspect many of those up-mods are made by yourself with sock-puppet accounts. Face it, you have publicly demonstrated that you have no integrity, or you wouldn't be the butt of accusations of impropriety and slithery behaviour.
What IS pretty simple (and that you have gone to great lengths to ignore) is that your list is a cherry-picked, unscientific and laughable source of great amusement when you clumsily try to wield it to support your argument. You say 'no, my list is not cherry-picked, fool' when it's actually yourself that is the fool, unschooled and sullen, unable to understand why you lose time and time again.
Give up, APK, you are outclassed and STILL off-topic.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
You deny you had to eat your words here http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 where 250 slashdot posters opinions outnumbered you by many orders of magnitude in what's quoted from your mouth there? Last time I checked, 250 is greater than a trolling off topic 1 in yourself only.
Idiot, you haven't the slightest clue how stupid and inept your response to my post makes you look.
Repeating your illogical stupidities over and over ad nauseam is the best argument for your mental incompetence and you hand the point to me time and time again.
Keep arguing, please, you're doing my job without me having to lift a finger and you're still providing an endless source of amusement.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Basic concept ya have trouble with's ya had to eat yer words http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 and my speaking the truth of it is backed up in that link, and yes yer a troll that can't come up with a greater number than that upmod list and ya had to eat yer words for it. Ya can't face up to that which shows ya have mental problems and yer being childish about it.
Slinging my own analysis of YOUR pathetic behaviour back at me? Really? Resorting to further spineless tactics when I thought you couldn't possible get any slimier is, I must admit, something of an achievement. You best argument amounts to 'I know you are I said you are but what am I', winning you the prize for gifted morons over the age of fifty.
So, Mr. Arrogance Personified, explain how 'I can't face up to it' when you are the one running (run, Forrest, run, as you might say) from logical argument and responding with little more than childish whining.
You like to say things that you think score you points. You're in your own world, so you don't notice that everyone is well aware that your arguments are coming straight out of your arsehole. Amazingly, you actually seem to believe your own shit. You are delusional at best and/or a meth-head.
Here's a hint: try addressing my point, or, better yet - fuck off and stop stalking my posts, you feeble old manchild.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
It's no secret that ya FAILED troll when ya tried speaking for everyone, and had to "eat yer words" spiced with yer foot in yer mouth n' "the bitter taste of SELF-defeat" too!
Very poetic, and also very wrong, as usual. I don't claim to speak for everyone, I'm simply a lot more observant than you and can see that the only value you have here is in making other people laugh at your stupidity
There's no arrogance in telling truths either.
Truth? You wouldn't know the truth if it kicked you right between the eyes, liar-man.
Arrogance, however: you certainly have plenty of that, I agree.
So please, DO tell us: How'd eatin yer words taste? ROTFLMAO!
You're delusional again. You wouldn't recognise victory if you saw it because the only victories you've ever had were entirely in your own head, whilst you were screaming and throwing another fifty-year-old-mature-man tantrum.
There's no need to get upset though, I understand it's not easy when you get walked over by everyone but you'd do a lot better if you simply took the advice you've been offered by multiple people over the years.
However advice doesn't work for you, because you are convinced of your own perfection, sure that you are 100% correct and that you are utterly flawless in all regards. What's it like to live a small, sweaty little existence like yours then?
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Ya said apk's posts suck: 250 /.'ers up mod ratings show otherwise http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 about apk's posts. That's simply demonstratable counter proof truth. Truth that made you have to eat your words against it. lol. There's nothing arrogant about stating a fact that 250 is greater than yer off topic trolling 1 in that link above. No arrogance involved either. Only fact, and fact is, Ya fail. Ya got played. Ya played yerself and had to "eat yer words" right off the bat in that link. Projecting yer own pitiful existence's state in yer reply's endings another expected predictable 'classic' from ya too along with yer hypocritical startup here of giving others a tough time about tossing names, but you're shown right afterwards doing it yerself constantly http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3427183&cid=42849825 , hypocrite.
Goodness, you do snivel and whine a lot don't you?
Explain to me how my reply to your post is an example of my off-topic trolling. Go on, I know with your bunch of bullshit, half-truths and squirming you'll have some half-baked idiocy by way of reply.
On another note, try as you might you seem quite incapable of understanding a simple concept. I doubt you'll want to understand this, but I'll link to the Wikipedia page concerning cherry picking anyway. Here's a snippet from the first line to get you on your way:
Sound familiar? It should. Wikipedia provides a very clear and concise definition of the meaning for you: this logical fallacy has been the basis of your entire argument thus far. All of your posts claiming victory because of your list are blowing in the wind, like the useless bits of toilet-paper they are.
In particular, you may wish to pay special attention to two of the three examples which seem to be written with you in mind:
The world has had to understand and deal with your crawling type long before you slithered into view. You reject anything that doesn't match your myopic little world-view, selectively using evidence to support your piss-weak argument. Are you religious by any chance? You are certainly gullible enough to be.
Yes APK - this is you being shot down in flames (to use your terminology).
Eat your words, loser, hahahahahahhahaha!!!!
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Quit bitchin! So yer stomach's upset after "eatin yer words" here http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 - you failed. Accept it. That first quote o yers being cut to shreds by 250 of yer fellow slashdotters was perfect by that poster apk. Bent ya all outta shape too, lmao! After that any 'integrity' you may have had (none) is gone after that, for certain. It's no lie to point out that 250 opinions that shot yours to hell in that link above is fact. So much of a fact you're tossing names again like you did here before hypocrite http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3427183&cid=42849825 even though you gave others a hard time about it, you are a pot calling a kettle black.
Who are you to accuse anyone of having a lack of integrity? You, the liar, the fraud, the one who hides behind AC and yaps at people like a little dog, the one who has to pretend to be someone else because nobody supports you! How can you possibly say that and go on to accuse me of hypocrisy with a straight face?
Ah yes, of course, it's because you're delusional and genuinely can't see why your argument is so pitifully weak.
Face it, you've been schooled. You've lost hands down, you've got nothing. Your logic is a failure, your 'support' is in your imagination and perhaps more tellingly, nobody else has come to your defence. Nobody that isn't you, that is. Your behaviour as you continue to lie about your identity (do you really think you've got us all fooled?) is beyond pathetic.
Apparently, you really do think we're that stupid compared to your immense intellect, or you wouldn't act like a cry-baby idiot.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
You fail/apk wins: Accept it - Your delusion = you can't accept 250 /.'ers opinions is greater than your off topic trolling 1 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 and you had to "EAT YOUR WORDS", rotflmao!
Here we have it: APK admits defeat whilst desperately trying to save face.
You've been utterly dorked by my argument and the only way you can cope with the humiliation is by ignoring my point rather than engaging me.
Thanks for handing me a clear victory in the midst of all your claims of forcing me to eat my words. It's been fun rolling over the top of you. :-)
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Ya hadda "eat yer words" Sardaukar86 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 flavored with yer foot in yer mouth + "the bitter taste of SELF-defeat" (lol)
Do you have that one on a macro key? I guess I probably would if I used the same phrase as often as yourself.
when apk easily outnumbered ya with upward mod ratings his posts got from yer fellow /. peers vs. yer erroneous words quoted there (that ya hadda "eat", lol)
Oh? When did you do that? All I saw was a bunch of cherry-picked data that proves nothing but your ignorance (and arrogance, as you continue to use the same flawed argument regardless).
There's no logical or mathematical fallacy possible since 250 /.'ers opinions massively outnumber yer 'opinion' bigtime in the link above.
Translation: APK *still* doesn't understand that his list is a cherry-picked sample-set, nor that he is continuing to argue one of the simplest known forms of logical fallacy, despite having it explained several times now.
You must be religious, perhaps you're a priest? I've met some pretty thick clergymen before and you'd certainly qualify in this regard.
Face facts and accept it: Ya failed.
We've seen ya toss names and fail before too, hypocrite http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3427183&cid=42849825
which is ironically droll, considering you came in here bitching to posters about the use of profanity
Re-read the post. I have nothing against profanity whatsoever and wasn't calling him up on it at all. No wonder you are so twitchy with appalling reading comprehension like yours. Oh, and seeing you accuse anyone of hypocrisy is always enough to give me a fit of the giggles, thanks! :-)
(when you use it constantly in off topic illogical failing ad hominem attacks) and especially when you're "on the ropes" failing, so clearly (lmao)
Off-topic is where you live, my idiot friend. So why is off-topic suddenly a crime to you? You've never let it stop you from stalking my posts.
Please explain how you think you have succeeded in logically rebutting my argument sufficient to claim that I am 'on the ropes'. As best I can tell you haven't scored with a single one of your points and of course we all know who was using ad hominen attacks long before I said anything to you.
Yer an easily manipulated puppet 'dancing on a string' here
Hmm, that's a familiar concept, I wonder.. wait, I get it - you're using the last thing I said about your pitiful behaviour and saying it about me now! Wow, what a superb tactic APK, it's almost as if I've never seen you use this subtle skill of yours before!
whose buttons I press with ease, eliciting the frustrated reactions you spout, due to yer being clearly unable to face up to the fact ya hadda "eat yer words" hahahaha. Tell us, won't ya: How'd yer words taste since ya hadda eat 'em? LMAO!
Sure, I'll tell you! My words taste sweet as they figuratively leave my lips, because I know I've addressed all of your points and shown you up as a fool on every occasion. You've had nothing but shrieking insults to say by response for anything I've thrown at you. Best of all, you still genuinely believe you're right, so I can keep goading you into fits of spittle-flinging rage and you still manage to achieve absolutely fuck-all against me.
You seem quite outraged that I'd dare use your own ad hominen style against you and I rather like this outcome. Especially since you don't seem to realise that it makes up the substance of all your posted doggerel and bitching. I guess this attitude of yours is similar
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Especially when ya hadda "eat yer words" Sardaukar86 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491
You need to engage your brain before typing, or you end up posting delusional garbage like this.
Protip: try winning a battle or two before declaring you've won the war
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Yeah? You won, did you? How'd you manage that when you can't even respond to my argument? You're so far beyond delusional it makes my sides hurt from laughing!
We need you APK! You're the best Slashdot Clown we've ever had. I hope you never go away, you keep my day so entertaining!
I especially enjoy how you've been dorked into the ground by logic and reason, two features of a normal functioning human being that are beyond your grasp, manchild. Crying about it won't make your point, waving your silly list about like a handkerchief won't help either. You're on your own, nobody is here to support you so you might as well pull your pants up and go home, you've been laid bare with your own childishness.
Sorry mate but little kids who can't even respond to a simple argument don't get to win. Nice to see you graciously handing me the victory after grinding you into the dirt with simple arguments you can't refute. Ever wonder what life would be like if you didn't behave like a spoil little mummy's boy?
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Eat my words? You wish!
I've handed you your arse and the only thing you can do is lamely post a link to your sad little list again. Yeah, the list that's been proven worthless by good old logic and reason, the list that shows you up as an obsessive-compulsive manchild with the maturity of a schoolkid, the list that you painstakingly put together to defend yourself from your detractors but actually does more for your opponent's arguments than it does you.
The icing on the cake is that you still don't understand why your stupid list and your idiot argument are bunk! You still really believe you're right!
BWHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAAA!!!
Your delusional brain is pure comedy, I love it, keep up the good work!
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Nicely played, a subtle and insightful response to my argument!
Oh wait, no, you just posted your sad little list again, oblivious to why every posting of the thing validates my position again and again.
You can't claim you forced someone to eat their words if you've got no evidence for it. I've shat on your list, I've wiped it over your face and you in your delusional state stand up shouting "See! I'm the best! I'm the one! I'm the best!" while the rest of the world watches you, laughing.
You're delusional, feeble and the most pathetic cry-baby loser I've ever encountered. Keep it up! :-)
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Again APK rewards us with another example of his puerility. Having a mind as small and sweaty as APK does come with some disadvantages, namely:
However, it's not all doom and gloom! The upside is that APK gives us an endless source of entertainment!
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Yea apk won @245++:1 with Sardaukar86 "eating his words" http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 and as usual Sardaukar86 projects his own issues in his "FoAmiNg-@-TeH-MouTh" ranting reply in his last response that I'm replying to (giving Sardaukar86 a dose of reality in the link above along with the score here, and there's just no arguing with the numbers (or apk's success in making you eat your words, rotflmao))!
Ha! your attack is as limp as your logic, fool - and your numbers have been proven as worthless as your repeatedly posted drivel, manchild. But there's no arguing with you over the numbers because you're too pig-headed to understand. The only thing you prove by waving that list around is your own ignorance and towering arrogance. In spades.
"FoAmiNg-@-TeH-MouTh"
By the way, what's this shit all about? I thought most people had grown out of that sort of uppy-downy writing stupidity.. well, decades ago. Why not you? Too much of a porcine cranium to grow up?
However, your mental and developmental issues aren't my problem; after all, you're the one getting all wound up trying to insist you've forced me to eat my words. What? With that list? You gotta be kidding. You've spent too long staring lovingly at yourself in the mirror if you think that's any kind of attack. Might as well threaten me with a piece of stiff paper, you feeble old goat.
You obviously know nothing of the scientific method, rational judgement or even basic logic because if you did you'd be doing better than throwing your utterly shot-to-shit list up in every post and yapping at me like a brainless dog.
I have publicly and provably destroyed you and no amount of obsessive yammering on your part about 'the eating of words' or the 'flavour of self-defeat' or any of your other over-repeated formulaic nonsense will make any difference. You've been pwned. Everyone saw it. You can't respond to my arguments except by posting the same list again. You couldn't handle the heat and your arse has been unceremoniously tossed out of the kitchen, your arguing skills stink, your reasoning is faulty and you behave like a silly little boy with a bug up his arse.
Don't forget to post the list again, it's eventually sure to win over this nasty black-magic voodoo 'logic' thing that has you so fucked up!
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Sardaukar the Slashdot Clow is fat-free!
- mindlessly repeating back what is said to him
Ya reward us with lulz since ya had to "eat your words" http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491
- obsessive-compulsive data collection and collation of meaningless results
Nice sample set you've got there, professor!
and your new "diet" (lol) where your slashdot peers upward moderations of 245 of apk's posts trashed your off-topic illogical trolling 1.
- twisting the truth to suit his warped point of view
- being incapable of understanding a simple logical argument, repeatedly responding with the same non-answer to every question
- hypocrisy of the highest order (you have a track record of off-topic trolling and you know it; I however do not)
Eating your words != 'good nutrition', rotflmao. It's also not polite to speak with your mouth full (as you eat your words).
Ah, thanks for explaining why my mouth might be full, I'm very grateful for the explanation or I, being as terminally stupid as you no really I am, would never have understood what you mean!
Oh, and:
- obsessive, endless claims relating to people's feet and their mouths (perhaps you're a pervert?)
Then your hypocritical fits of rage at having to 'eat your words' from that 1st link above here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3427183&cid=42849825 do the rest, what-with your "cocksucker"
How do you think you've forced me to 'eat my words' when you've utterly failed to prove anything? You've run like a coward from the proof of your stupidity without ever attempting to rebut it other than 'roflmao, no lol it isnt cherry-picked rofl lol UpPy-dOwNy'. No, posting the list again doesn't magically make your argument for you APK. This is because you have lost, you are a loser - a sore loser - and you're too stupid and conceited to know when you're beat. Hard.
so-called 'intelligent' (lol, not) reply there, lmao.
The difference between us is that I, as an intelligent person, avail myself of the option to behave unintelligently when it suits me. You however lack the option to behave intelligently because you are ill-equipped to do so.
Keep "projecting" your own issues too. It's the 1 thing you're good at: Tipping your hand!
Logic and math both prove that 245 is greater than your trolling 1, no questions asked.
Logic?
Math?
Perhaps, O wise logical mathematician, you could explain how your version of Math and Logic work. It's certainly different to the rest of us here on planet Earth. I seem to be missing a piece or two of how things work in your imaginary world, I'll need a little direction from you to understand your insanity a little better.
Now, when have I trolled you? I simply answered your question and you got all bent out of shape like a three-year-old without their toy. You chose to re-frame this as a troll because you don't have the mental firepower to respond to my argument.
Meanwhile, I roll right over you again, laughing all the while. You honestly believe the crap you spout, don't you? That's what makes this so delicious!!!
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?