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Ask Slashdot: What Is a Reasonable Way To Deter Piracy?

An anonymous reader writes "I'm an indie developer about to release a small ($5 — $10 range) utility for graphic designers. I'd like to employ at least a basic deterrent to pirates, but with the recent SimCity disaster, I'm wondering: what is a reasonable way to deter piracy without ruining things for legitimate users? A simple serial number? Online activation? Encrypted binaries? Please share your thoughts."

687 comments

  1. life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You could choose to provide life-long updates for those that buy the tool. At least that made me pay for several programs.

    1. Re:life-long updates by newcastlejon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hear hear. You get vastly more with the carrot than an easily-circumvented stick.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    2. Re:life-long updates by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      But anyone that would pirate it would just pirate the latest version anyway.

    3. Re:life-long updates by MagPulse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Along these lines, make the program available in an App Store. This makes it easier for paying customers. It's tiring when I want to buy a program to have to do some background research on payment processors to see if a developer chose one that is trustworthy. But Apple already has my credit info, buying is easy and safe.

    4. Re:life-long updates by mrmeval · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whose life? ;)

      I can't see someone supporting a game for more than a year or so unless they have a revenue stream from downloadable content.

      An OS I can see security updates being a requirement for a decade.

      Some software packages dealing with finance will most likely need update and I don't expect those to be free.

      The simplest mentioned is check the serial on a new install which I won't fuss with bypassing. Let me play it without the serial with either level or time restriction for a game. Let me do enough with other programs to get an idea how they work.

      And as always, Don't Suck.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    5. Re:life-long updates by zidium · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Paranoid much???

      --
      Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
    6. Re:life-long updates by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Or even better, kickstart it and front load your profits. After that just live with piracy.

    7. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Paranoid much???

      So...you'll just give up your credit card info to anyone that says they're offering a good product?

      Boy, do I have a deal for you!

    8. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i know right? seriously. that's the whole point of using credit cards, after all - if someone else uses your card, it's NOT a big deal. you just cancel the orders and the card.

      considering i buy things online all the time and haven't yet had any issues with my card, i'm glad i saved all the time it would have taken to research payment processing companies. time is money, dude. in fact, it's MORE valuable tha money to me, since i'll only ever get so much.

    9. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      You must be new here!

    10. Re:life-long updates by realityimpaired · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most amusing (and effective) DRM I ever saw was actually a fairly loose and easily broken copy protection scheme... the program could detect when it had been "cracked" but still gave full functionality to the cracked version... just with some interesting bugs that only appeared late game on the cracked version. It was a game, and deliberately corrupted the load of certain textures on pirated version so the game was still playable, but had quality degradation. Is it possible you could do something like that with the utility?

      The reality is that some people are going to pirate it, even if you only charge $0.05 for a copy. They're going to do it because they can. The best DRM schemes take that into mind, and give them something they can pirate while still making it worth actually paying for the product for those who want to. In the case of the game, for example, you could give it away for free, but only with low quality textures and low bitrate audio samples... if you pay for the game, you can download and install the hi res packs and get a better gameplay experience. If you have the bandwidth to spare, you could tag those hi res packs with a unique watermark and have the software check activation servers for the hi res packs on, say, a weekly basis... if you find them on a pirate site, you can nuke the activation for that particular hi res pack, leaving a functional game that defaults back to the low res textures for pirate users.

      For the utility described, maybe limit the number of objects it can save in a render, for example (assuming that's what the software is), or limit the quality of JPEG it can save to 30% if it's saving images, or apply a watermark to work created with a pirated copy? If it's something people will use to interoperate with other users, maybe have it tag files created on a pirated copy with a randomly generated hash that's stored on the client PC, so that the files can be opened on that system but won't open on another computer? Or even just tweak it with artificial slowdowns in the code so that it's usable when it's pirated, but nowhere near as efficient to work with.

      The possibilties are endless, once you accept that you won't stop people from pirating it, and start thinking of ways to fuck with pirates instead.

    11. Re:life-long updates by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Sure , but your selling points could be easy access and availability, support, having a user community, etc.

      The truth is, most of those who pirate wouldn't buy it anyway, so piracy is not a deterrent to success. If you make quality products people will buy.

    12. Re:life-long updates by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1, Funny

      Along these lines, make the program available in an App Store. This makes it easier for paying customers. It's tiring when I want to buy a program to have to do some background research on payment processors to see if a developer chose one that is trustworthy. But Apple already has my credit info, buying is easy and safe.

      But do graphics developers, of the sort who would be interested in a productivity tool, use the iPad as a development platform?

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    13. Re:life-long updates by epyT-R · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      ..and for me, making it an app store purchase virtually ensures I'll never buy it. I don't do business with indian givers who have no problem taking my money while the store license agreement allows the author to revamp the application at any time...or in the worst case, revoke the application entirely leaving me shit up a creek.. See, the bottom line is I depend on my tools. If I can't depend on them being there when I open the tool box in the condition they were purchased in, they're useless. This applies to 'app store' gimmickry as well as 'cloud services' that get 'updated' until they're virtually useless.

      A traditional application purchase, with no crazy DRM that needs 'online activation' or otherwise prevents me from running the software independently, is acceptable.

    14. Re:life-long updates by Immerman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not giving your credit card info to some random person or "company" is paranoid now? Well shit, tell you what, I've got a lovely iPad I'll sell you for a nickle, just give me your credit card info...

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    15. Re:life-long updates by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 5, Funny

      On a similar note, I once saw a utility that, if unregistered, would let you use everything in it, the only catch being that all of the fonts in the tool switched to Comic Sans.

    16. Re:life-long updates by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      The one that worked for me is similar- a bitmapped serial number that allowed me to purchase only the features I want (including an expensive option with all the secret bits turned on with a promise of unlimited future feature unlocks for free, which is the one I went with). Crippleware is the ONLY strategy I've ever seen that didn't make me want to break the scheme and yet still pay.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    17. Re:life-long updates by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      That reminds me of an early 1980s copy protection scheme I heard about- signing the (magnetic floppy) disk with a ball point pen before formatting, then using a special cataloging program to record and analyze bad sectors at bootup.

      Worked well until hard drives came into play, but a sector copy program that ignored bad sector warnings could accurately defeat it.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    18. Re:life-long updates by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      Yes, it is. Do you not use your credit card to buy gas? Do you not use it to pay for dinner when you go out? 99% of the people that you give your credit card to are random people. If your card gets stolen, you report it as stolen, switch to the backup card that you keep for just such situations, and have the credit card company send you a new card that becomes the new backup card.

    19. Re:life-long updates by grantspassalan · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is also an app store for the Mac. Microsoft also has an app store for Windows now.

      --
      A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
    20. Re:life-long updates by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      Apple has an app store for Mac OS as well. It uses the same sign-in as the iTunes app store.

      --
      This space for rent...
    21. Re:life-long updates by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Doesn't work. At some point you have to either start charging for updates or you go out of business. Redchairsoftware chose the latter and DDISoftware chose to create a new line and effectively limit updates on the old one to the most minimal ones possible.

      Other outfits I've seen that sold them had to give them up as well as the price you need in order to make that sustainable is way above what most folks are willing to pay. And if you don't charge enough, you wind up running out of funds.

    22. Re:life-long updates by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Smaller company's usually use PayPal or another 3rd party payment processor to handle the details and only have access to the transaction ID, and not the CC card number or any of the rest of that.

    23. Re:life-long updates by erroneus · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen an update to my X-Wing vs Tie Fighter game for a very long time... still waiting... ... also, "The Force Unleashed 2" was way too short and still haven't put out any updates to extend the story/game to a more fitting length.

      Perhaps it's not only the price. It's not only the updates. It's not only the quality. It's a lot of things.

      I think something that will win, if it were only one thing, is to create a community of users and stay involved. They are getting more than your 'product.' They are getting your service from a source they should hopefully like and enjoy interacting with. But sure -- quality is important as are updates/fixes as is the price.

    24. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Batman Arkham Asylum?

    25. Re:life-long updates by tacokill · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, its paranoid. It's a credit card so you are already using someone else's money. If it lost, stolen, or otherwise you are only legally on the hook for $50 and I am not sure I have ever seen that enforced.

      Now if you had said a debit card.....whole different story.

      I've bet I've had over 30 credit cards replaced at various times because they got nicked or used without permission. It has cost me exactly $0 and a tiny bit of time filling out an affadavit that I didn't make the charges. But all in all, its a trvial process to dispute charges if you really didn't make them. Same for my business. We've had business credit cards used without permission as well -- same resolution process and same result.

    26. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That kind of scheme has backfired in the past. I forget what game it was, but it tried a similar trick. As it turned out, the pirates had no idea that the bugs and crashes were caused by the fact that it was an illegitimate copy. The game ended up getting a reputation for being very buggy, which deterred legitimate customers, even though they wouldn't have been affected.

    27. Re:life-long updates by mlts · · Score: 1

      The trick is making DRM a speed-bump big enough to deter, but not so annoying that people go fetch a patch or make a "warez-ed" version that has a permanent home as a seed on TPB.

      An example of decent DRM is NWN1. Just CD keys were used, although they were needed to get onto multiplayer items, such as persistent worlds.

      These days, with the advent of good online stores, why even bother with DRM in the first place? Just stick the application on Steam, or the platform store of one's choice and let them do the work.

    28. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That should be illegal.

    29. Re:life-long updates by Nadaka · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In addition to the mac and ms stores, STEAM is now distributing non-game software. Admittedly most of it is currently aimed at artists and developers involved with producing games, but utility for graphic designers would still fit in just fine.

    30. Re:life-long updates by brantondaveperson · · Score: 2

      This really doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The app store does not give the author the power to revamp the application, or revoke the application, or any other such nonsense. This has never been the case, and I do not believe it will ever become the case in the future. Here's what the appstore does

      • Centralises purchasing for applications, freeing individual developers from the chore of setting up CC services
      • Centralises updates, so that when the application you have purchased has an update available, you are informed. This does NOT require you to install the update and has never done so. I don't know where you got this idea from, but certainly not from actually using the app store itself.

      Buying apps from the app store is a painless and seamless experience, and I've done so several times. There is no 'online activation' of the app once it's purchased, and although some applications have in-app purchases I have yet to come across any. Interestingly, I had the opposite experience when buying Guitar Pro from their standalone app-store. After laying down my 80 bucks (how much?!?!), I couldn't download it for an entire weekend because their servers were down!

    31. Re:life-long updates by ericloewe · · Score: 4, Funny

      Could be worse. Could be Wingdings.

    32. Re:life-long updates by hh10k · · Score: 3, Funny

      Most amusing (and effective) DRM I ever saw was actually a fairly loose and easily broken copy protection scheme

      I did this with my game. The code that checked the cd-key was easily bypassed, but that code also fixed a critical bug that happened on level 10. It was funny that we had people coming to our support forum asking for help, and we could easily call them out as pirates!

      We actually manage to convince one of them to buy the game properly.

    33. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very bad idea. I seem to recall many stories of systems that 'fuck with the pirates' mistakenly identifying paying customers as pirates as well.

      So then you get the double whammy: Negative reviews as customers complain about your broken software, and then lawsuits/chargebacks when paying customers realize they have been misidentified as a pirate. I think the worst example was a company that published info on the 'pirates' Big oops there.

    34. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So...you'll just give up your credit card info to anyone that says they're offering a good product?

      Yes, just like the rest of the planet, including you.

      Do you background check every single person you ever give your CC number to? No, you do not.

      And even if you did, it'd be a fucking waste of time because it takes one phone call to fixup 99% of things that happen after someone commits fraud with your CC.

      The only "background check" you should do is check if SSL is on and if the company actually is real. Beyond that, you're entertaining your own paranoid fantasies.

    35. Re:life-long updates by ldcroberts · · Score: 1

      Allow people to register it voluntarily and that can skip a nag screen at the start.

    36. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calm down, Satan!

    37. Re:life-long updates by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      I *think* that was actually the one I was talking about.... you had a thread on Slashdot about it a couple of years ago? :)

    38. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ideally you should basically trust your customers, provide good value for money, good support and ignore piracy...

      Anything you do in terms of controlling the piracy via code will be circumvented AND there is a REALLy good chance that it will end up pissing off your legit users at some point or other..

      As others have said lifetime updates (at least for those that buy first version series, after that you can look at your success rate and decide if that is working for you or not long term)

      Some developers have gone so far as to say things like "look i know your going to crack it anyhow so rather than muddy my name with your shitty "cracked versions" everyone can DL the full version and then simply be entitled to support and such by paying.." it solves several problems related to "trial/demo/donation" and dealing with "registration" code in the app (which people will try to crack EVEN if your app does nothing other than say "thanks for registering" once the code is entered..

      I personally do not see serial numbers as very useful as they are too easy to crack, so much easier to maintain just the database of emails for "paid users"

    39. Re:life-long updates by devent · · Score: 2

      Which is really sad in my opinion. There are many games that could benefit from life long updates. Updating the engine, offer new content, new maps, new anything game related. I would gladly pay every year to get my favourite game updated with new content.

      I don't really understand the current model. You develop for 4 years a game, and then you are expected to make a profit in the first weeks. Why not develop a game for 2 years and offer continued updates and new content for subscribers? Why that kind of business model is only offered in online games?

      I say it again: I would gladly pay anyone yearly to have my favourite game up-to-date, ever improving engine and effects and new content.

      A few examples: Morrowind, Neverwinter Nights, etc. almost all RPG games. Updated engines and new quests. Or Civilization. Updated engine, new technologies and new scenarios.

      But no, every 5 years I need to buy a completely new game, that is the same but not like the old one. Civilization III then Civ IV, then Civ V, etc. The developers are wasting so much time to create a new game from scratch, which I maybe like or maybe not. Instead, just let me pay 10$ per year and update Civ III.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    40. Re:life-long updates by JSombra · · Score: 2

      All of those are would to company's with a physical presence (thus probably heavily invested financially) in your legal jurisdiction and thus subject to actually getting caught and going to jail.

      While shit does happen it is far less likely to happen than on some random online web could be anywhere in the world (aka somewhere with little effective police presence) and who could have invested just a few bucks to set up "shop". Random small vendor online should be viewed as the same as using your cc in the worst, most corrupt country in the world, something you do very cautiously. Basic risk management.

    41. Re:life-long updates by hh10k · · Score: 1

      That probably wasn't me. I made my game almost a decade ago, and this sort of copy protection idea was already floating around in the indie game community back then.

    42. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a utility for graphic designers, not a game.

    43. Re:life-long updates by stephanruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The guy is asking the wrong question. He should be asking questions like "How can I maximize profits?" or "How can people find out about my utility?" not "What is a reasonable way to deter piracy?". One doesn't necessarily follow from the other.

      In any case, coming back to his original question. Perhaps his utility could help his customers deter the piracy of the graphics they create with it (may be some kind of self-signing/watermarking/registration system for their own graphics). A customer who tries to protect his own assets will probably not want to try doing it with a pirated copy of the software. It would be too high a risk that whoever pirated that software also crippled/modified the functionality that would deter piracy of the images as well.

    44. Re:life-long updates by magisterx · · Score: 1

      Well said. Also consider offering technical support only to those that have purchased the product. Technogical attempts to stop it will likely do more to annoy your real customers than deter the pirates.

    45. Re:life-long updates by Kaenneth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you cripple the product in ways that could be mistaken for a bug, then they will think your products are shit, and never buy them even after they get a real job and move out of their parent house.

    46. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wha? I've had problems like this with debit cards. You just call your band and say, "that ain't me." They kill the card, reverse the charges, and issue you a new one.

    47. Re:life-long updates by mumblestheclown · · Score: 1, Interesting

      let's be clear what you are saying: you are saying that the developer must provide EXTRAORDINARY value (life long updates on a $5-$10 product?) for you to consider not pirating it. Behold, the entitled snowflake consumer.

      Subby: don't listen to this and other snowflakes that will permeate this thread and mark me 'troll.'. You'll get a lot of advice here which amounts to not much more than you subsidizing their greed and limitless expectation.

      You'll also get crapola "sage advice" like "Trying to deter piracy with DRM is a losing battle" here on slashdot. It gets "+5 insightful", but it's not. Sure, everything will get hacked, but the dirty little secret is DRM works. DRM works because it reduces the RATE of piracy. Behold the PS3. People DESPERATELY tried to hack it for years with great rewards to the cracker, but it wasnt cracked until many years after the fact, and even then it was more trouble than it was worth. I refer you again to the dictum "don't listen to the snowflakes." They will try to mislead you and in fact are doing so on this thread.

      This is what I suggest:

      1. charge a fair price for your product. compete on quality, not price.
      2. NOTHING is unhackable, but use mechanisms that will lead to you getting a good income stream. the better known appstores are a good start. Far from perfect, but you'll reach plenty of honest people too.
      3. if you want to sell it yourself (or if the product demands it), make the product 'phone home' regularly to validate its license. make it part of your license that the app MUST phone home every so often and cannot be blocked by firewall, etc. You'll get longwinded speeches here and elsewhere from customers who claim they would buy but for your evil, crazy DRM, but, again, ignore the snowflakes.
      4. make regular updates. if you're particularly fussed, find out how your stuff is hacked, make it conditional that users must have current version for benefit X, and work against any hacks found. or, don't bother. I honestly think it's pretty much ethically perfectly fair to retaliate against those who pirate your stuff, but we don't and you shouldn't (oh, here come the responses!).
      5. have a thick skin when it comes to entitled snowflakes and the Tech Profits and Futurists who will tell you that DRM is dead, that you should sell T-Shirts but give your app away, that you should FOSS it and live off of the sweet dew of reputation, or any other such idealistic crapola.

      / yes, this is a voice of relatively successful experience talking here.

    48. Re:life-long updates by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I'm sure i've seen "keyed" on card receipts that came with online orders implying that the company collected the card details through the website and then manually keyed them into a POS terminal.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    49. Re:life-long updates by znanue · · Score: 1

      I'm sure there's a law against this affecting your credit, but this has only happened to me once, and the sums involved were tiny. How is it possible over 30 cards?

    50. Re:life-long updates by Immerman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Certainly. Then you need to go through the hassle of updating your CC information with every online retailer, recurring payment processor, etc. that has your old number before doing further business with them.

      You know what's even easier? Not handing out your CC number to every fly-by-night company that asks for it. I've had to replace a CC exactly once in twenty years, and that was a cautionary event due to a large-scale breach of a major company's CC database.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    51. Re:life-long updates by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      Alternatively (or perhaps additionally), provide services for a additional fees (subscription or one-time) alongside the application. This can be support, training, or just about any kind of service you can think of which would increase the value of the application to users.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    52. Re:life-long updates by Idbar · · Score: 1

      This is great for those living in countries where the customer is first and banks/credit cards cover the expense of fraud. That doesn't occur in all the countries though, where you have to pay for your mistakes.

      So, for some people, it may actually be their money in the end.

    53. Re:life-long updates by hsmith · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Ah yes, the people that live in la-la-land. Software development costs money. Shock! The whole "Give me free forever after I give you the cost of a cup of Starbucks" is astounding. What you propose is nothing more than a ponzi scheme, where new customers subsidize the ones from years ago. Hint: It doesn't work.

    54. Re:life-long updates by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      You are wrong. From the itunes agreement: http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html

      Notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement, Apple and its licensors reserve the right to change, suspend, remove, or disable access to any iTunes Products, content, or other materials comprising a part of the iTunes Service at any time without notice. In no event will Apple be liable for making these changes. Apple may also impose limits on the use of or access to certain features or portions of the iTunes Service, in any case and without notice or liability.

      I'm sure google has a similar clause.

      I never said these app stores weren't convenient. Your anecdote doesn't address my point either.

    55. Re:life-long updates by jasen666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You've had to replace over 30 CARDS because they were compromised and yet have the balls to say it's paranoid to not give out your details to just anyone?
      Fucking really? Are you insane?

      I'm careful about who I trust with my card details and have never once had one of them compromised. I don't care how trivial you think it is to have to dispute the charges, then cancel & reissue the card. Most of us do not care to have such a blaise attitude about identity theft and fraud.
      This fraud also costs the merchants and card companies real money--which you may not be on the hook for Mr Whogivesafuck, but we all end up paying eventually in price increases, fees, and higher interest rates.

    56. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it lost, stolen, or otherwise you are only legally on the hook for $50 and I am not sure I have ever seen that enforced.

      I've never even heard of that before. My card number was stolen and someone charged $950 to my card, but I didn't pay anything. I later lost my credit card, nothing was charged, but I didn't have to pay anything in that case either.

    57. Re:life-long updates by Kartu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Apple hater here.

      After "Clouds and Sheeps" game running on my android tablet managed to charge me 9 Euro (non-refundable) for "5000 happy stars" (some in game crap) without asking for password or anything like that, simply because I was silly enough to buy something from google's appstore USING A PC and google support said "oh uh, so what" I see quite a number of reasons to be paranoid with payment systems.

      Apple at least asks for password.

    58. Re:life-long updates by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Did the crackers ever bother to fix the bug?

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    59. Re:life-long updates by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      > The reality is that some people are going to pirate it, even if you only charge $0.05 for a copy. They're going to do it because they can.
      Correct. To add to that: No matter what kind of copy protection / DRM you use, people WILL crack it.

      I used to crack games in the '80s because it was fun -- plus one got to learn assembly language as a bonus. It was NEVER about "Sticking it to The Man", but about learning. i.e. The best way to motivate a geek is to tell him he can't do something.

      Instead of wasting your time adding copy protection and other things to "slow down" a pirate (which will slow him down from a few minutes, to maybe an hour or too IF you're lucky) is to focus on streamlining your UI, functionality and customer service. Tons of people pirate Photoshop which actually counter-intuitively helped make it a "de facto standard".

      > and start thinking of ways to fuck with pirates instead.
      Why cater to a fraction of the user base though? Wouldn't the time be better spent polishing the program in the first place to attract new potential customers?

    60. Re:life-long updates by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      You are fooling yourself. That minimum wage employee you had be your credit card to is not heavily invested financially.

    61. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's how we copied games on c64s back in the day. Using a program that ignored bad sectors

    62. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The downside of that is that sometimes, your copy protection scam^Wscheme returns false positives. Then you get legitimate customers who are earnestly convinced, and will spare no effort to tell others, that your product sucks donkey balls.

      Been there, done that. (The consumer, I mean. Not the donkey.)

    63. Re:life-long updates by Goaway · · Score: 1

      As far as I know, Apple has no mechanism for doing this in the OS X app store. It can be done on iOS, but it is pretty much never done, and when it is done it is because malware somehow managed to sneak through review and is putting users at risk.

      Also, that is only Apple. App creators themselves most definitely do not have any way whatsoever to revoke an app.

    64. Re:life-long updates by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure why you'd trust Apple anymore than Google or eBay/Paypal.

    65. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You are obviously inexperienced with credit fraud and I really don't think you have any concept of what you are talking about. One phone call and months of hassle, not to mention possible negative marks on your credit history depending on the scale of the fraud. Credit fraud detection agencies don't always catch active fraud until sometimes thousands of dollars has been lost.

      I have had my CC stolen out of my mail and charged $3000 forcing me to be late on my fucking house payment, my car payment, my insurance payment, and my cable bill. The fraud was reported the day after and STILL it took over TWO MONTHS to give my money back during which time I had 30 day lates on some of my payments because even though I called the organizations I was late on payments for, two of them "forgot" to process my fraud report. I then had to go through 3 months of back and forth with the companies, police, my bank, and Experian/Transunion just to repair my credit.

      I spent approx 110 hours of my time repairing something something you say takes 'one phone call to fixup 99% of the things that happen' which is a lot of my money lost because I make $14/hr for every single hour in the day if you average my pay across all 24 hours every day. That's fucking $1540 in damage to my personal income so you are out of your mind when you say he is entertaining paranoid fantasies. Btw before you say "well that was physical CC fraud and not online", I have two customers and one relative that have horror stories WORSE than mine because they all just ASSUMED that online sites are secure and it wouldn't be a problem if something happened. Since there is still a human element to fraud detection/credit repair, shit can always get fucked up...badly.

      Responses to your other points:

      Do you background check every single person you ever give your CC number to? No, you do not.

      There is something to be said for physically handing your credit card to someone and WATCHING THEM SWIPE IT or even SWIPING IT YOURSELF. Kinda makes it inherently more secure even though fraud does sometimes happen using devices that store the #.

      The only "background check" you should do is check if SSL is on and if the company actually is real. Beyond that, you're entertaining your own paranoid fantasies.

      Completely agree with the SSL check and verification that the company is real...I think the original poster your replied to agrees too because I doubt he is contacting a fucking agency to do a background check on the companies he purchases from. If he is actually doing that, you're right...way unnecessary...in point of fact, however, you are making huge sweeping assumptions about what he is saying and you're being a dick at the same time. You are completely wrong in every bit of your attitude and your concept of credit fraud also.

    66. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of us do not care to have such a blaise attitude about identity theft and fraud.

      What does Pascal have to do with it?

    67. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      See my post here because you also have no concept of how credit fraud can fuck you over: http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3566081&cid=43230369

      Just because you haven't been screwed once doesn't mean you're not next in line and it certainly doesn't mean your first time will be a simple phone call to fix. You are like someone who has never seen a car wreck that thinks "Oh this seatbelt thing is useless...even if I get in a car wreck I'll just bump my chest against the wheel a little bit...no biggie." The point is you have no idea what credit fraud repair entails and while you think it is more like smacking an annoying fly away, it is more like getting hit by a semi with no seatbelt on a lot of the time.

      FYI - I seriously doubt the original poster was talking about spending days researching an organization or payment processor...more than likely he simply makes a judgement whether the company looks reliable and does a Google search to see who the payment processor is and how widely used they are. About 5 minutes can tell you whether it is worth risking it. You seem to think he is going on a trek through the alps to find a monk who knows all and can verify the trustworthiness of the payment processor or something.

    68. Re:life-long updates by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only problem is they all take at least 30% and some have some fairly strict limits on what can be put on there.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    69. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      See my post here because you also have no concept of how credit fraud can fuck you over: http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3566081&cid=43230369 [slashdot.org]

      The process to repair credit fraud can be extremely painful even with something as simple as a credit card and if you haven't had that happen to you yet then hooray for you. Ultimately the one time in a thousand is what fucks you and forces you to spend months repairing your credit because of human error or improper fraud detection, especially if you are a victim of credit fraud where the purchases are made in your local area.

      You may be legally on the hook for $50 only and you may have to pay $0 out of pocket in the end but the time wasted fighting the process and fighting all the parties involved is worth money, too, and my time wasted cost me about $1500 bucks when all was said and done.

    70. Re:life-long updates by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

      You get vastly more with the carrot than an easily-circumvented stick.

      How did that go over with your girlfriend/wife?

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    71. Re:life-long updates by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Seriously? I mean, if we're talking a product that costs 100+ bucks, I could see people do that. But for 10 bucks? Here's my 10 bucks and make it update itself in the background automatically so I needn't care about. That alone and not having to check whether there's some new version out, downloading & cracking it is worth 10 bucks.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    72. Re:life-long updates by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The product's.

      As long as there are new versions, you'll get updates. If there ain't any, you won't. Simple.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    73. Re:life-long updates by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I don't know if quality degradation is such a great idea. Unless it is VERY obvious someone might think that it's a problem of the tool. If the cracked version is slow as molasses, how many will think this is because of the crack and how many will think that it's just crappy programming that makes it crawl like a snail on downers?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    74. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      The minimum wage employee has to take the card from me for them to obtain my CC information and in almost every gas station I've been to you swipe your own card or have visual access to the person doing the swiping. In restaurants there is less access to view the payment being processed but it is highly suspicious when another employee sees them not following the process that everyone always follows for processing CC payments. Alternately, do what I do and just use cash when you go to a restaurant...the staff prefers tips they can take home right away and you don't even offer the opportunity for anyone to screw you over.

      Ultimately internet transactions are the easiest, most faceless way to perform transactions and are therefore the most prone to fraud. A simple 5 minute check of the company and their payment processor is enough to tell you whether they are likely to be reliable or shady and that is what everyone is talking about here. If you just throw your credit card out there at random and rely on the fraud prevention system to save your ass, you're probably going to be ok 95% of the time. That 5% of the time though is going to rape you harder than you thought possible and you're going to be months in with a ton of your personal time wasted before you finally see your credit repaired and everything back to the way it was.

      I speak from personal experience with CC fraud and I lost a little over $1500 dollars in my own personal time even though I did not have to pay out of pocket for the fraud that was committed. If you don't place a value on your personal time, go ahead and keep throwing your CC around randomly...all it takes is one time for fraud protection to fail and for the elements of human error to creep in to make your butt hurt.

    75. Re:life-long updates by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      1. I'm sure the code is there, and even if not, you can't tell me it's not coming for OSX eventually.
      2. authors can release 'updates' that yank functionality. At least with the traditional desktop I'd have to install them manually, and I have a way out should I need to get the old version back.
      3. why would apple have this functionality if they never intended to use it or allow 'rights holders' to use it?

    76. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      They will repair your credit or you can sue them...after you prove it wasn't your fault. 95% of the time that's not a big deal but that other 5% of the time can force you to spend months fighting with credit agencies, interacting with local authorities, and demanding that your CC issuer repair your credit over and over before someone gets off their ass and pushes your paperwork through. I had to go through this and it took about 2 months before everything was back to normal and I ended up abut $1500 of my personal time wasted.

      I agree with you on the 30 cards thing...smacks of bullshit to me. OR he is just the most financially irresponsible 70 year old in the world.

    77. Re:life-long updates by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      I can't see someone supporting a game for more than a year or so unless they have a revenue stream from downloadable content.

      This makes me sad. Very, very sad. It's a sorry state we've fallen to in just a few years.

      Blizzard Entertainment released StarCraft in 1998, almost exactly 15 years ago, and its expansion Brood War later that year. Although they occasionally re-packaged the game for digital downloads or "Battle Chest" bundles, they never introduced any new paid content. However, for months (years) they released freely downloadable maps. They continued patching the game for almost 11 years, releasing the final patch in 2009. While early patches were largely balance tweaks and bug fixes, they also updated the game to work on new operating systems and released a legitimate no-CD patch and online installer. The download site for patches is still live, including for older patch versions. The online multiplayer servers (Battle.Net) are still up, and are still free to use (there is, or used to be, some generally unobtrusive advertising).

      I used to love that company. I still play their old games, in fact the last copy of SC that I bought was less than five years ago. However... I can't stand what they're doing with always-online gaming in every game newer than WarCraft 3. WOW had an excuse, but SC2 and D3 don't. I regret this, because it means I won't buy those games even though I quite enjoyed the SC2 beta. But in the meantime, their older games still work just fine... and when I get a new PC, I can install the games, the bonus maps, and the patches without worrying about whether I'll need to grab them from some shady site or whether they'll work on my PC*

      * SC was never recompiled for x86 Macs, although it was updated to run on OS X. If you have a new version of OS X that doesn't include support for Rosetta (the PPC emulator layer), you can run the game in Windows or Wine just fine; a purchased copy was good for both operating systems.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    78. Re:life-long updates by TheSeatOfMyPants · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The most amusing I saw renamed all objects to "oink!" and had NPC speech replaced with altered versions of famous quotes ("honor thy father and thy hoe, babycakes") if the player couldn't answer a few questions based on information in the printed manual correctly after two tries. That was in Ultima VII: Serpent Isle -- I always wondered just how the development team got the idea for that.

      Oh, ouch... I just looked it up on Wikipedia, and found a nasty copy-protection approach used in one of the early games -- the floppy disk for Atari version of Ultima IV had an unformatted track the game was programmed to look for, and if it was absent, the the player's party would be slaughtered during every battle. Worse, the German distributor didn't know about the unformatted track, so all of the copies they sold had impossible-to-win battles.

      --
      Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
    79. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Make your product as unappealing to a paying customer as possible to ruin your reputation. Then those who wouldn't pay will go straight to bit torrent and grab a pre-cracked "free" copy with built in spyware to further ruin your reputation.

      OP, you're not going to make a bunch of money off a small utility unless get get extremely lucky with a stupid iFart app or somesuch. What you will do is score reputation points with a well liked/well known free utility that you can put on your resume.

      My suggestion, if it's truly small, is to make it free and add that feather to your hat. Make a few of these and you will have businesses coming to you, willing to pay you bigger bucks for a custom job. "I like your utility, but can you make it do this? We will pay you."

      In my early days of development, this is what I did. I tried shareware and got literally nothing for it. But when stuff was free, it never failed me. There was always some feature that someone was willing to pay a couple hundred bucks for me to add. Literally, little features that took me all of an hour to do.

      Plus, when you charge for a product, it changes the dynamic entirely. When joe consumer pays you, now they feel entitled to a new level of expectations than they do with free. Then you become cranky and start calling people "snowflakes" or some other derogatory term which makes you look like a real dick that nobody wants to associate with. :)

    80. Re:life-long updates by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Whose life? ;)

      Anyone's life. The life of a sun even. It doesn't matter. The point is that they get "free updates". Nothing is stopping you from giving up the project and not ever updating it. Just don't make a dick move and change the name or make it look like a new program to get out of providing update when you chose to make update.

      Update != Support

    81. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Red Alert 2 is probably the one you are thinking of, but other games did that as well. I caught that once and had to reinstall it to get it to work right. http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/09/the_5_most_hilarious_forms_of_software_copy_protec.php

    82. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a matter of fact, I do not use my card at gas stations or in restraunts. I pay cash.

    83. Re:life-long updates by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      Ignored? Flat our replicated the bad sectors and copied the half tracks and all sorts of fun stuff.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    84. Re:life-long updates by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      http://www.baen.com/library/intro.asp

      Jim Baen sold books, rather than software. But his views are pertinent to any digital distributor. Anyone who bothers to ask slashdot about digital rights has obviously given things some semi-serious thought. Include Jim's ideas in your thinking.

      First few paragraphs of that page follow:

      Baen Books is now making available — for free — a number of its titles in electronic format. We're calling it the Baen Free Library. Anyone who wishes can read these titles online — no conditions, no strings attached. (Later we may ask for an extremely simple, name & email only, registration. ) Or, if you prefer, you can download the books in one of several formats. Again, with no conditions or strings attached. (URLs to sites which offer the readers for these format are also listed. )

      Why are we doing this? Well, for two reasons.

      The first is what you might call a "matter of principle." This all started as a byproduct of an online "virtual brawl" I got into with a number of people, some of them professional SF authors, over the issue of online piracy of copyrighted works and what to do about it.

      There was a school of thought, which seemed to be picking up steam, that the way to handle the problem was with handcuffs and brass knucks. Enforcement! Regulation! New regulations! Tighter regulations! All out for the campaign against piracy! No quarter! Build more prisons! Harsher sentences!

      Alles in ordnung!

      I, ah, disagreed. Rather vociferously and belligerently, in fact. And I can be a vociferous and belligerent fellow. My own opinion, summarized briefly, is as follows:

      1. Online piracy — while it is definitely illegal and immoral — is, as a practical problem, nothing more than (at most) a nuisance. We're talking brats stealing chewing gum, here, not the Barbary Pirates.

      2. Losses any author suffers from piracy are almost certainly offset by the additional publicity which, in practice, any kind of free copies of a book usually engender. Whatever the moral difference, which certainly exists, the practical effect of online piracy is no different from that of any existing method by which readers may obtain books for free or at reduced cost: public libraries, friends borrowing and loaning each other books, used book stores, promotional copies, etc.

      3. Any cure which relies on tighter regulation of the market — especially the kind of extreme measures being advocated by some people — is far worse than the disease. As a widespread phenomenon rather than a nuisance, piracy occurs when artificial restrictions in the market jack up prices beyond what people think are reasonable. The "regulation-enforcement-more regulation" strategy is a bottomless pit which continually recreates (on a larger scale) the problem it supposedly solves. And that commercial effect is often compounded by the more general damage done to social and political freedom.

      In the course of this debate, I mentioned it to my publisher Jim Baen. He more or less virtually snorted and expressed the opinion that if one of his authors — how about you, Eric? — were willing to put up a book for free online that the resulting publicity would more than offset any losses the author might suffer.

      The minute he made the proposal, I realized he was right. After all, Dave Weber's On Basilisk Station has been available for free as a "loss leader" for Baen's for-pay experiment "Webscriptions" for months now. And — hey, whaddaya know? — over that time it's become Baen's most popular backlist title in paper!

      And so I volunteered my first novel, Mother of Demons, to prove the case. And the next day Mother of Demons went up online, offered to the public for free.

      Sure enough, within a day, I received at least half a dozen messages (some posted in public forums, others by private email) from people who told me that, based on hearing about the episode a

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    85. Re:life-long updates by Goaway · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the code is there, and even if not, you can't tell me it's not coming for OSX eventually.

      No, the "code" is not "there". Do us all a favor and limit your arguments to facts based in reality.

      authors can release 'updates' that yank functionality. At least with the traditional desktop I'd have to install them manually, and I have a way out should I need to get the old version back.

      You still have to approve updates to App Store apps. And you can just make a copy of the app for downgrading later. If you use Time Machine, that happens automatically.

      why would apple have this functionality if they never intended to use it or allow 'rights holders' to use it?

      I already told you: So they can yank malware. That is all it has ever been used for in the years it has existed on iOS.

    86. Re:life-long updates by schnell · · Score: 1

      You are fooling yourself. That minimum wage employee you had be your credit card to is not heavily invested financially.

      You are correct. But their employer, who is financially liable for their actions on the job, certainly is. If a 7-11 clerk steals my credit card and goes on a shopping spree, the clerk might go to jail but it's 7-11 and its licensed franchisee that my bank (or me if it comes down to it) will be pursuing legal remedies with.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    87. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guy is asking the wrong question. He should be asking questions like "How can I maximize profits?" or "How can people find out about my utility?" not "What is a reasonable way to deter piracy?". One doesn't necessarily follow from the other.

      This is the most important thing. By far. In numerous cases pirated software does better than unpirated software. It is in some ways a form of advertising. And it is essentially free advertising. Someone said something along the lines of rathering his own software be pirated than a competitors. At least it is another user using your software, not someone else's, maybe one day they will be a customer, or at least introduce someone else who one day may be a customer. Obscurity is a far worse fate.

      So focus on customers, and how they can make you money. The pirates aren't your customer, forget about them.

      Then if you must use something, use a simple serial number that does not require an internet connection. Not too difficult for legit customers, and may deter a casual "loaning". Dedicated pirates will crack whatever you do, so it isn't worth the effort.

    88. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, do all of these things listed by the above entitled snowflake and your app will suck and be pirated anyway.

      / yes, also a voice of relatively successful experience talking here.

    89. Re:life-long updates by jowaju · · Score: 2, Informative

      I usually don't bother to respond to posts like this, but this one is so blatantly off-base I feel compelled. What you experienced was not Credit Card theft. It was Debit Card theft. You can't be late on your mortgage payment because your credit card was stolen and/or used for unauthorized purchases because you are using THEIR money, not yours. While I agree that everything that happened to you was unfortunate, it all could have been easily avoided by using the cardinal rule of plastic, don't use it online if it's tied to YOUR money.

      Every single item the parent mentioned is valid and true. If anyone does anything unwanted with your account, simply login and click dispute, or phone customer service and spend less than 5 minutes explaining. The bill doesn't even come out for ~30 days, and you have several months after that to get it reversed. Let them deal with it, it's their job not yours. You wasted 110 hours of your life, but have you changed the way you do things now? Or do you still use your debit card for all your purchases? If it happened once, it can and WILL happen again.

      PS - Your anger is showing, you used the word "fuck" 4 times in your post. Calm down and be rational.

    90. Re:life-long updates by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      I did. I quote and pasted a link to apples eula to demonstrate this. Unless you're telling me it doesn't apply to OSX itunes purchases.. I did not see that language anywhere. If the code exists in ios it likely exists in the osx itunes application as well.. You'd be a fool to assume otherwise.

      This is tangential to my point about control over software purchases, which is not debatable. It is fact. app stores routinely set limits on what functionality the apps are allowed, and no this is not limited to malware behavior, but also anything that competes with apple's bottom line or corporate political stance, and the license agreement clearly suggests they've reserved the ability and right to yank whatever they want from wherever they want within their own ecosystem. Even if they (or the authors) yank the app from the store (or update it into uselessness) and choose not to yank it from your device, how will you get it back later or install it elsewhere? Go outside the walled garden? That defeats the purpose and makes my point for me. As long as it's setup so I cannot retain control over my purchase beyond their good graces, anything sold there is of little value. If I need it badly enough to want to pay for it, I might as well just pirate it then, because at least that grants me access control, but it it does deny the author payment which was my point to the OP.

    91. Re:life-long updates by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Snapping a photo of a card is quick and easy.

      also, you're bank sucks. I've had fraud twice (one lost card, and one I assume restaurant employee), both times were quick and easy to sort put, though the one time did take a while to get my money back, though it was just credit I didn't need anyway. I never use my real money card at such places.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    92. Re:life-long updates by jowaju · · Score: 1

      And here we are again...

      Ok, I know this is tough, but you just haven't figure out how to use credit cards yet. You obviously need to read up, a lot. And try to keep an open mind. I was where you are now once myself. I'd like to think I wasn't quite as cocky about my lack of knowledge as you are, but who knows.

      Again, all of these issues you mention are debit card issues. stop using your personal bank account that you use for paying bills the same account as the one you give out online and all those problems will magically disappear.

      30 isn't bullshit at all, I have about 15 at last count and I pared them down significantly in the last couple of years, mostly to make it easier to keep track of. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you should talk badly about their choices.

    93. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is Minecraft?

    94. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incorrect. This was not a debit card. This was a new card after my previous had expired and I have automatic balance payoff in place on and 30 days had elapsed and the bill had been paid.
       
      I may be angry but it is because the parent is misleading people and is completely incorrect as are you. If my language offended you, report me. This is how I talk.

    95. Re:life-long updates by JWSmythe · · Score: 2

      Credit card fraud isn't usually that tough to deal with, if you have a decent bank. Unfortunately, you won't find out if they're decent until it happens.

      I had a fraud issue once. I went down to the branch, and we called the merchant together. The merchant basically told me to fuck off. So the bank refunded me the full amount, and sent off a chargeback.

      Someone else I knew at another bank had a fraudulent charge. Her transactions clearly showed what she did that day. Gas and groceries within an hour of the fraudulent charge 200 miles away. Her bank told her to prove it wasn't her.

      I had a mess with identity theft for a little while. People were buying cell phones under my name online. All the shipping went to about a 20 mile area, which happened to be about 2,500 miles from where I was. I got a collections notice in the mail. When I called up, I actually got someone who cared. We chased it around until we figured out exactly what happened. They cancelled all the phones that "I" bought. I then called every cell phone company I could think of. "I" had phones with 3 different carriers. I was lucky, I got people who cared. It was probably the way I chased it down. I called, and said "I'm having an identity theft problem, can you see if I have an account with you?" When they said yes, I politely requested to be transferred to their fraud department.

      It's really all in who you get on the phone.

      It still took hours of my work time (pesky job coinciding with normal working hours). I was lucky that I had a very accommodating employer at the time, so there was no complaint that I spent entire work days chasing it around. Then again, I spent all night doing my work to keep up. Sadly, there's no reimbursement for *my* time spent fixing *their* failure to properly identify the client in front of them.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    96. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was not my bank. This was a credit card agency. New card after my previous expired. Automatic balance payoff on statement due date so the fraudulent balance was already paid and they have to reverse charges at that point. Snapping a photo, maybe but online CC charges are MUCH more vulnerable to fraud and many people do need the money their credit cards provide because they cannot manage funds well or have emergencies. The point is that it is retarded to assume nothing bad can happen.

    97. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm had exactly one credit card compromised, and it was by an employ of the company that issued it: Sam's Club.

    98. Re:life-long updates by sinnergy · · Score: 1

      Or even better, kickstart it and front load your profits. After that just live with piracy.

      This is a horrible, horrible idea on so very many levels.

    99. Re:life-long updates by Zalbik · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Sorry, but I've had fraud committed against my credit card twice, so I do have an idea of how it "can fuck you over". Or in fact, how it really doesn't if you have any kind of intelligence.

      Seriously, you missed all those payments cause someone charged $3000 fucking dollars on your fucking credit card? What are you, a fucking moron?

      Who doesn't save up at least a tiny bit of money (say 3 months salary) in case of a fucking emergency? Seriously, what would you have done if your fucking furnace suddenly needed fucking replacing? What the fuck would you have fucking done if your fucking roof had fucking leaked?

      For me, it took all of 2 hours on the phone, and perhaps an hour reading/signing an affidavit indicating it in fact was fraud. Someone had gotten a hold of our card and/or number, copied it, and was getting cash-back at gas stations in another province. I was pretty annoyed, as it was a chip-card (so should not have been easily copyable), but was informed "oh, we haven't activated the chip system yet". I was also pretty annoyed that they managed to get out $7000 in cash over the course of a week, and the credit card company didn't think this was suspicious behaviour.

      It did take a couple of months to get things fully straightened out and get our money back, but it didn't affect our credit at all.

      And seriously....based on your post you make $117,000 a year. Grab a fucking clue and get yourself some fucking savings.

    100. Re:life-long updates by motoservo · · Score: 0

      Amen, brother. DRM works just fine on me. I don't use wareze sites, or torrents, or anything like that. But if I go to a web site and the software is a free download with payment optional, I probably wouldn't pay. All it would take is requiring a simple serial number for me to cough up some dough. It's alarming how many self-righteous, entitled, dweebs work in IT. Make them pay.

    101. Re:life-long updates by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      While I agree that everything that happened to you was unfortunate, it all could have been easily avoided by using the cardinal rule of plastic, don't use it online if it's tied to YOUR money.

      It's not like everyone earns enough to be able to get a credit card.

    102. Re:life-long updates by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      There is something to be said for physically handing your credit card to someone and WATCHING THEM SWIPE IT or even SWIPING IT YOURSELF. Kinda makes it inherently more secure even though fraud does sometimes happen using devices that store the #.

      In my country all cards have chips and you have to enter the PIN into the device after putting in the card (usually you have to put in the card yourself). Even if someone took a photo of the number, it would be difficult to do anything with it as they would have to make another card.

      Using the magnetic strip in stores is illegal since a couple of years ago (because nobody was checking the signature as they were supposed to - now you have to know the PIN to be able to use the card). Oh, and even when using the magnetic strip was legal, you couldn't just type the card number - you had to swipe the card (and if the magnetic strip was defective you had to pay cash or use another card).

    103. Re:life-long updates by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I agree with everything you said except for the online being more vulnerable. the vast majority of online transactions never touch a person who can see your whole number. I do personally prefer to use bill me later, paypal, or one of the processing options that take you to the merchant services account, because there is no guarantee on a random site, but I still think it is far safer than a restaurant. Personally I try to spend all my money by CC and pay it off every month, so that if stuff goes tits up, I still have access to a months pay, and my new money won't be taken, but the system appears to be safer to me than carrying a couple days worth of cash, and online appears to be safer in person (my two fraudulent charges were one I left behind in a restaurant, one single charge at that restaurant. The other time my number was taken but not card, two purcchases were made from my zip code, one to a porn network, and the other for an assload of skype credit, no idea when the number was taken, but the porn site intanstly refunded my money when I called the number left on the line-item, and for the skype I filed with the bank, they refunded within 2 weeks (and for those 2 weeks I spent out of my real money).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    104. Re:life-long updates by Smauler · · Score: 1

      It's massively easy to get into loads of debt with credit cards - be careful that you don't.

      You can also use the deals they have of 0% borrowing if you do it right, especially if you are relatively rich.

    105. Re:life-long updates by stonecypher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who doesn't save up at least a tiny bit of money (say 3 months salary) in case of a fucking emergency?

      Most of America, it turns out.

      Nearly half of America has less than $500 saved. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/22/americans-savings-500_n_2003285.html

      The average American - including all those billionaires - has less than $6000. http://finance.zacks.com/much-money-average-american-family-savings-7304.html

      What the fuck would you have fucking done if your fucking roof had fucking leaked?

      There's no need for this level of rage. Take it down several notches, please; we can be civil in disagreement.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    106. Re:life-long updates by twocows · · Score: 2

      Reminds me of the copy protection on Spyro: Year of the Dragon. It was a layered system, where the first layer was easy to crack, but each time you cracked a layer, another layer cropped up that introduced bugs at some arbitrary point in the game. Fix one bug, you end up introducing another. It was eventually cracked in a rather ingenious way, but it took much longer than any other game at the time.

    107. Re:life-long updates by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just remember that this is a graphics utility for graphics designers... and if they're graphics designers, they've already got Adobe CS with a bunch of plugins (many plugins possibly pirated).

      Don't worry about piracy for the non-professionals; if they like/use your tool, that gives you mindshare. What you really want to be asking is "what will get graphics designers to lay down $5 to $10 for my product when they've already got CS?" When you've answered that question, piracy is no longer an issue (you want to saturate your target market; whether anyone else uses it or not is only useful as advertising, unless it opens up an unforeseen market).

      So if your product is for a specific market, make your protection such that they get some sort of a productivity-hindering reminder if they haven't paid, but don't bother going much further than that.

      Some people I know had the bright idea of doing "dongleware" -- where the core functionality of the product was free, but training, support and help (including everything but the most rudimentary built-in help) required registration. At $10, this is a no-brainer for anyone trying to get something done. The dongles could still be pirated, but why bother?

    108. Re:life-long updates by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      because nobody was checking the signature as they were supposed to

      Where did this rumor get started? The signature on the card is not for comparison purposes.

      It signifies something more important - that the cardholder (i.e., the guy presenting the card) has AGREED TO and SIGNED the credit card agreement. An unsigned card or an invalidly signed card (e.g, "Check ID") is NOT a valid credit card and MUST NOT be accepted.

      Likewise, the signature on the slip is not to prove your identity, but if you look closely, it says "The cardholder agrees to pay the above amount in accordance with the cardholder agreement" or similar. I.e., you agree to pay the charge on the slip.

      The merchant keeps that because they use it to prove the charge was valid should there be a chargeback.

      Naturally, for card not present transactions, things are way more risky since no card was presented, and no agreement to pay for the charges was actually signed.

      And yes, if somehow by mistake, the merchant gives you the entire slip instead of keeping it, you could theoretically do a chargeback since they have no proof. It's fraud, of course.

    109. Re:life-long updates by Cruciform · · Score: 2

      Spyro the Dragon had something similar in it. If you used a copied disc you could only get half way through the game :)

    110. Re:life-long updates by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      Well, some stores were actually comparing the signatures. If the signature looks close enough it's OK, but if it does not match (or the name on the card does not match the customer's gender (in my language gender of the person can usually be identified from the name (especially surname)).

      Anyway, that is in the past now. Now you either know the PIN or you don't. And if you write your PIN down and keep it near the card you are screwed. On the other hand, if the thief cannot guess the PIN in 7 attempts your money is relatively safe.

    111. Re:life-long updates by alavaliant · · Score: 1

      I'd be very careful with requiring an internet connection to use your product. If you must please at-least for the love of god make sure you handle less common connection types such as authenticated proxy servers (ideally depending on the OS you should be pulling all the network settings from the OS wide settings), I've seen so many developers that add in online activation support that don't take into account that not all internet connections are the same as theirs and don't allow how the app connects to be customised. (A little background for the curious - I work in a company that works with sensitive data and we have strong security requirements that include the only Internet access being via a authenticated proxy server. I've spent many a frustrated hour dealing the apps that require online activation but won't connect to their servers using the only connection type we are allowed to go out via (not my decision, it's mandated by clients and upper management many levels above my head), doesn't matter how awesome said app is if we can't get the drm to work we will be buying your competitor's product instead. One time activation atleast can be done by connecting a machine to a non secure network for a minute but if ongoing access is required we have no way to make use of the app...) As a software developer myself I understand concerns about limiting piracy (I often ponder the questions in this thread myself when thinking about potentially writing a commercial game in the future) but I think expecting it to phone home regularly is risking making it unusable for a subset of potential customers and might just hurt you more than it helps? (Depends just how many people will be stuck unable to use such drm, I don't have info on just how many networks are as locked down as the one I'm on so I can't really say). Only other thing I can say is that I've bought every single humble bundle (and paid well over the average price) barring one I missed but I make a point of never buying anything that has heavy drm in it (no I don't pirate it, I just don't use software that requires heavy drm to run).

    112. Re:life-long updates by Anarchitect · · Score: 3

      I would agree with all of the above _EXCEPT_ point number three.

      Screw the phone home stuff - build a serial number generator and call it good.

      I used to work for a prominent software house that made plugins for Illustrator, Photoshop, etc, and that's all we ever had. The pirate networks had figured out our algorithm, but who cares? They were never our customers in the first place. And for support, we required our callers to give their serial number before we would help them - we kept an account of which serials had been sold, so it was easy to cut off the freeloaders.

      Go with an offline serial scheme that is non-obvious, but simple to code and you will be fine.

      Bonus points - if you are doing online sales only, use the customer's CC or PayPal ID or whatever as the salt against a serial number for validation... you can not only spot pirates, you know where they got their copy.

      Extra bonus points if you embed that hash into the IPTC or EXIF data of exported images...

      from an interview with Kai Krause in 1994:

      CJ: Japan has traditionally had a problem with software piracy on a home user level: users passing along copies of programs to their friends. Do you have problems with this, and what do you do about it ?

      Krause: Yes, many people do steal the software and copy it. It's a very tricky problem for software manufacturers. But what we keep saying to people is, it's OK for their friends to use something, and play with it to see what it's like. But we appeal t o them that, "If you use it more than once a week, or if you do a serious project with it, then you should invest in your tools, and help those that make the tools to make better tools." So with that ethics angle, we find a lot of people understand that a nd buy the software. We get a lot of letters from people who say it's the only program they ever paid for. It's OK with me if they give it to a friend so they can at least see what it is like -- but it is a little tricky in Japan.

      --
      QA implies some kind of quality to begin with.
    113. Re:life-long updates by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would have thought tackling pirates could be best handled by placing trained security personal on targeted ships in the affected zones, argh me hearty.

      When it comes to copyright infringement, your content you choose, your customer will then make a choice. The most important thing is to make very, very clear your system to the customer and do not put the customers equipment at risk, nor force changes of use upon the customer.

      The best method is to reward validated registered users in some manner. Obviously additional content can be copied and distributed, so limited value there. So likely the best bet is accumulative discounts, the more you buy the bigger the discounts build. Treat long term repeat buyers with the same regard that old brick and mortar stores used to. So your content might not be quite as good but it is good enough and they prefer dealing with you.

      You really have to ignore people who copy and can't afford to buy because one day when they can afford to buy the most likely will, so no real immediate lose but a long term potential loss. You might as well ignore the right wing can already afford it but are just born too greedy and selfish, reacting to them, always a minority will simply damage the relationship between you and the majority of your customers. Of course if you are a greedy and selfish right wing freak you will simply believe everyone is like you, this will lead to confusion and chaos and end up pissing off most of your customers.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    114. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My God that was an awesome post. I modded you up , but I'm sure you'll get modded back into the mud.

    115. Re:life-long updates by shvytejimas · · Score: 3, Informative

      That would be Chocolat, a text editor for Mac.
      Here's a screenshot of the warning

    116. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >This was a new card after my previous had expired and I have automatic balance payoff in place on and 30 days had elapsed and the bill had been paid.

      Ok, so you somehow managed to tie your credit card to your real money. That was the mistake the GP is talking about. "Never do that" is good advice.

      And no the GGP was not off base when talking about how easy it is to fix "typical" CC fraud. I just got my new card in the mail today. Its predecessor was used to buy gasoline in some foreign country. They caught it, reversed the charges, canceled it and mailed me a new one in within the week.

      If you haven't set your credit cards up as the key domino in a personal financial crisis, normal CC theft is not traumatic. Slightly paranoid, I use a separate low limit card for my online transactions. The fraud occurred on the card I never use online.

    117. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For those apps you also typically add receipt verification. The App Store cryptographically signs a receipt that your own app then verifies at a proper occasion (typically during startup and then maybe sporadicly later on). Actually, you are not allowed to put in additional copy protection mechanisms than these in an App Store app.

    118. Re: life-long updates by Pale+Dot · · Score: 1

      That's why my credit card has a low credit limit (I insisted the bank roll it back when they gave me a free upgrade), which I only use to pay for groceries and stuff I'm forced to buy online. I don't tie down my whole life to a single point of failure, and have at least three different payment methods for my bills and whatnot.

    119. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's no fucking need for this fucking level of fucking rage! Can't you fucking take it fucking down several fucking notches, pretty fucking please? For fucks sake, we ought to fucking be fucking civil in fucking disagreement! Fuck.

      FTFGP

    120. Re:life-long updates by Wickedpygmy · · Score: 2

      I will admit that I basically never pay for any software, and will often attempt to crack a free trial myself if I can't find a working serial or keygen, but recently I have bought some apps from app stores. It's hard to say why, but I think I like the convenience of payment, the low prices, and the reassurance that the app is vetted and not going to transmit my passwords to nigeria.

    121. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never really taken extra precautions on internet purchases - I won't go against my gut if a vendor is obviously shady, but I've made a lot of purchases on the net. I've had my credit card compromised exactly twice.

      Once was Sony's fault. It was around the time of the PSN compromise, but it didn't appear to be at all related - instead, it looked like there was a bug in their accounts system that caused someone else's account to become cross-linked to mine, including registering their devices to my accounts. At first, I just thought they had given my e-mail address when they created the account until they made a purchase. Then, the rep at Sony I talked to didn't apparently know what he was supposed to do and told me to dispute the charges rather than just cancelling/voiding the charge (since I called them within about an hour of the charge being made).

      The other time was while I was on a business trip in Rhode Island. The waiter at the restaurant I ate at copied it down when he ran it. Never have I regretted being a good tipper so much, that dude deserved to get gypped on his tip.

      That's not to say I'm not careful about purchases on the internet, but definitely not to the level of paranoia.

    122. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I can't see someone supporting a game for more than a year..."

      And yet, people used to do so, mostly because they took pride in their work.
      Besides, you know that "implied warranty of merchantability" stuff the EULAs like to pretend can be signed away? It usually can't, which is why they have a clause that anything they can't legally disclaim is to be ignored. That warranty typically lasts two years - and often from purchase, not manufacture.

      Yeah, we used to pay for upgrades, but only major releases. And that mostly came after the rise of proprietary software anyway, which is the one major contribution Gates made to the computing world. Yay?

    123. Re:life-long updates by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who doesn't save up at least a tiny bit of money (say 3 months salary) in case of a fucking emergency?

      Your living in a bit of a bubble on that one, sure I personally have a years worth of salary in my rainy day account but I'm in my 50's and have been earning good money for the last 20yrs. My daughter is married with 3 kids, they are a typical middle class couple, her hubby is a qualified mechanic and has a decent job with plenty of overtime. Like millions of other families just like them they live for the next paycheck, they have no other choice, they simply cannot afford the luxury of a 3 week cash buffer, let alone 3 months. And all this is in Australia which has a much better social "safety net" than the US.

      Unless you are either extraordinarily lucky or talented, it will take you a good 10-15yrs after leaving school before you have more assets than debts, especially if you decide to have children while your still young enough to enjoy them. Some people never get there, others experience some disaster that puts them back to square one after a lifetime of hard work. I personally know more than a few people over 40 who through no fault of their own are still living from paycheck to paycheck.

      You and I are lucky to be in our current financial situations, I know this because I started my working life as a HS drop out and for a few months in my 20's found myself homeless while at the same time being employed full time on a fishing trawler working the southern ocean. Your post is lacking the requisite humility and empathy for the vast majority of people who are in a less comfortable financial position, many of whom have worked themselves to a level of physical and mental exhaustion that, judging by your comments, I very much doubt you have ever experienced.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    124. Re:life-long updates by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 1

      That depends how you define readily accessible savings though. I don't have a savings account as such, because I put all my available cash on my mortgage, paying off debt or at least offsetting interest. I can transfer any amount I need in an instant. I also have a shitload in shares, which I can capitalise in 3 days. On paper I am in debt. If I sold everything I own I would be sitting on a fairly large pile. It all depends how you look at things.

      And why would you keep in it a bank when the IMF think it is okay to ask your country to steal it from you from there?

      Anyway, I think the statistic says more about the inequality of the USA than anything else.

    125. Re:life-long updates by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 1

      Having worked for the largest card processors in the world I can tell you that buying petrol was the number 1 vector for stolen credit card details. The owners would never know because their transactions would go through just fine. All the attendants had to do was copy the details and invest in a card read/writer to put the new cards details on an existing mag stripe.

      OP is right, if you are are paranoid about giving your credit card to a stranger you are not going to get much use out of it.

    126. Re:life-long updates by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 1

      And just how do you know it was the 7-11 dude that stole your credit card DETAILS. Not your card mind you, just the information on it. And used it a month later?

    127. Re:life-long updates by Znork · · Score: 1

      I paid for AC3D for exactly that reason once upon a time. Of course they later decided to not give a shit about their committment so no way I'm falling for that one again.

    128. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he asked the perfect question. Developers already know how to maximize profits, it's usually by ripping people off or deceiving them in some way. He asked what he did because he has integrity.

    129. Re:life-long updates by BadDreamer · · Score: 2

      30% is cheap for not having to bother with infrastructure, payment processing, refunds, tech support when the OS messes up breaking your app and a myriad other small bits and pieces which add up to a lot of time spent.

      Building and maintaining infrastructure and payment processing is time consuming and expensive, and contributes no value add for an indie developer. In fact, it is a value loss, since the convenience of app store purchases is high value for the buyer.

    130. Re:life-long updates by nazsco · · Score: 2

      Most cc harvesters get data directly from banking systems or brick and mortar stores. Mainly because of volume.

      Those small business are worthless.

    131. Re:life-long updates by nazsco · · Score: 1

      Only a neckbeard would say that.

      A real human have his card on the back of a bar while he's getting hammered with cheap liquor at least twice a month.

    132. Re:life-long updates by sam_nead · · Score: 1

      I suggest that you _not_ spend time thinking deeply about DRM: every minute thinking about DRM is a minute not spent coding up your project. If you can contact a sufficiently large audience then Kickstarter is worth trying. Otherwise you could offer updates. Both are ways of asking for money in advance for product/service later.

    133. Re:life-long updates by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Exactly. It's important to make sure that paying customers get better value than pirates, rather than worse.

      If the paying customer gets a sluggish, heavily-DRMed version that's unreliable because of all the required verification, while the pirate gets a cleaner version with all the DRM removed, you're punishing the customer for paying. Don't do that.

      Some very mild DRM might be acceptable, but make sure that it will remain working even if you're unable to continue supporting it (so no validation servers), it will continue working even if they have no internet connection, and it won't cause it to be unnecessarily slow.

      Give them a unique code to activate it (without the code, it might function as a demo), that also automatically gives them an account on your site where they can get all sorts of bonus stuff and support.

    134. Re:life-long updates by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      So... You build a product sell it for cheap, and offer life long support. That sounds like a money sap too me.
      Only to get your new updates pirated.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    135. Re:life-long updates by mcvos · · Score: 3, Informative

      But if it means you sell that many more, it's still a good idea.

      Or you sell at a higher price in that app store. Whatever works.

    136. Re:life-long updates by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      I have a better idea: no DRM at all.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    137. Re:life-long updates by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      let's be clear what you are saying: you are saying that the developer must provide EXTRAORDINARY value (life long updates on a $5-$10 product?) for you to consider not pirating it. Behold, the entitled snowflake consumer.

      No, he's giving the guy a strategy for getting more people to buy the game. You can whine and cry about copyright infringement all you like, but it's not going to go away, and that is simply the reality of the situation. It has nothing to do with entitlement. If you don't like copyright infringement, about the only thing to do is to try to make your product and product delivery the best they can be.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    138. Re:life-long updates by GoneAwry · · Score: 1

      The old Westwood studios games like Command and Conquer had a clever (and annoying) trick that EA later on learned when they acquired them and put into other games like Battle for Middle-Earth I and II. The game could detect cracks, but wouldn't let you know immediately, instead letting you start up as normal. About ten to fifteen minutes into the match, suddenly your entire base and all of your units would spontaneously implode.

    139. Re:life-long updates by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      At least in my country –you don't hand your credit card to a minimum wage employee, you put it in the chip and pin machine yourself. Then the question is "do you trust the chip and pin machine", and yes, then it's a case of whether or not you trust the shop... I do in Tesco, I don't in a random kebab shop.

    140. Re:life-long updates by MadKeithV · · Score: 1

      Most amusing (and effective) DRM I ever saw was actually a fairly loose and easily broken copy protection scheme... the program could detect when it had been "cracked" but still gave full functionality to the cracked version... just with some interesting bugs that only appeared late game on the cracked version. It was a game, and deliberately corrupted the load of certain textures on pirated version so the game was still playable, but had quality degradation. Is it possible you could do something like that with the utility?

      In general: do NOT do this without talking to a lawyer first. Deliberate hidden degradation after crack detection potentially opens you up to legal liability. You broke the user's software deliberately, any unintended consequences might be on you.

    141. Re:life-long updates by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Which is really sad in my opinion. There are many games that could benefit from life long updates. Updating the engine, offer new content, new maps, new anything game related. I would gladly pay every year to get my favourite game updated with new content.

      Which is almost exactly EA's business model... The key is that GP suggested doing it for free which is obviously retarded, as you now have a developer who has to work for the rest of his life without getting paid a dime.

    142. Re:life-long updates by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Subby: don't listen to this and other snowflakes that will permeate this thread and mark me 'troll.'. You'll get a lot of advice here which amounts to not much more than you subsidizing their greed and limitless expectation.

      And you'll also get borderline flamebait replies like this that essentially state that anyone who dares to disagree must be a dirty 'pirate' or an entitled brat. Well done.

      Sure, everything will get hacked, but the dirty little secret is DRM works.

      Probably 99% of the time it's cracked so fast that it's not even worth spending resources on making it, and pointing to one case (the PS3) doesn't change that.

      5. have a thick skin when it comes to entitled snowflakes and the Tech Profits and Futurists who will tell you that DRM is dead, that you should sell T-Shirts but give your app away, that you should FOSS it and live off of the sweet dew of reputation, or any other such idealistic crapola.

      In other words, "Tell anyone who disagrees with you trying to control other people's use of the software or disagrees with you harming your own customers to screw off; they're just entitled!"

      But if you'd rather harm your own customers with DRM, I guess I can't stop you. I just think it's morally wrong is all. I suggest everyone avoid any products with any form of DRM like the plague and instead use services like Good Old Games and similar.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    143. Re:life-long updates by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      The PS3 is not one version of one piece of software. It is a continually moving target that includes online services running as a back end. Every version must be cracked, in a very short time frame, to remain usable.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    144. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you are effectively investing on stock with loan money? If that makes sense, why's the bank not doing it directly without you in between?

    145. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FFuu.. clicked wrong reply button. Was supposed to say that to "Dodgy G33za"

    146. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you not use your credit card to buy gas?

      Nope.

      Do you not use it to pay for dinner when you go out?

      Nope.

      Next question.

    147. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or how is this one for humor: One of the Dragon Quest games on DS would let you play the start of the game on a flashcard, except...

      The ship you're on never arrives to port, meaning you're stuck on an endless boat ride from hell.

    148. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you are either extraordinarily lucky or talented, it will take you a good 10-15yrs after leaving school before you have more assets than debts

      ...in the USA.

      I'm from a european country, and my tuition (engineering degree) on a top national university is around 1000 euros/year.

    149. Re:life-long updates by Xest · · Score: 1

      This needs the usual "Depends what country you're in, and who you bank with" disclaimer.

      I've had my debit card used fradulently before because it was leaked by a major online retailer. Frankly it was no big deal, the bank gave me an interest free overdraft for the amount that was missing whilst I filled in the forms, sent them off etc., they investigated and gave the money back (took them about a month).

      No big deal, no drama, one phone call and 2 pages of forms to fill in and there was no impact on me beyond that.

      This was in the UK.

    150. Re:life-long updates by devent · · Score: 1

      How is that EA's business model?
      I'm not talking about online games. Just plain old offline and single player games.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    151. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey TapeCutter, that's the best post I've read here in years.

    152. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You might as well ignore the right wing can already afford it but are just born too greedy and selfish"

      What the fucking hell are you talking about?

    153. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are describing debit card fraud, not credit card fraud. With credit cards, none of the problems you listed apply. It's just a phone call to dispute the charges and perhaps the hassle of changing any recurring billing arrangements you have made using that card.

      Debit cards are a line directly into your bank account. Don't use them.

    154. Re:life-long updates by The_PS4_Will_Fail · · Score: 1

      I have had my CC stolen out of my mail and charged $3000 forcing me to be late on my fucking house payment, my car payment, my insurance payment, and my cable bill. The fraud was reported the day after and STILL it took over TWO MONTHS to give my money back during which time I had 30 day lates on some of my payments because even though I called the organizations I was late on payments for, two of them "forgot" to process my fraud report. I then had to go through 3 months of back and forth with the companies, police, my bank, and Experian/Transunion just to repair my credit.

      Did you mean to say that you had a debit card stolen from your mail? Because your story doesn't make any sense if a credit card was stolen. I'd also suggest that you should position yourself financially to better absorb a 3k hit. Living hand to mouth like this is just asking for trouble.

      --
      lik-sang.com
    155. Re:life-long updates by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      F1 2010, F1 2011, F1 2012, ...

      All of these are the same game, just charging for updated content, and minor tweaks each year.

      The same applies for many other EA games.

    156. Re:life-long updates by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Except I guarantee you that some of those "pirates" were legitimate customers and all it will take is ONE person posting proof of purchase side by side with you treating them like criminals to ruin you.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    157. Re:life-long updates by N1AK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Like millions of other families just like them they live for the next paycheck, they have no other choice, they simply cannot afford the luxury of a 3 week cash buffer, let alone 3 months. And all this is in Australia which has a much better social "safety net" than the US.

      It may not be easy, and may even be very hard but it simply isn't true to say it isn't possible; and dismissing it as such simply makes it easier for people who decide it is 'too hard' to justify not doing so because it's impossible. What I realised early on in life is that having money makes it easier to get more money. Living pay cheque to pay cheque means you make decisions based on cash flow rather than cost. $5 a day is $2000 in a year, after a couple of years you at least have enough saved that you can handle most one-off expenses and make decisions that are cheaper in the long run.

      Yes there are people who have no savings through no fault of there own; there are vastly more who have no savings because they didn't take perfectly reasonable steps and viable steps to, where circumstances outside there control may affect them but not entirely determine them.

    158. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A few questions,

      Do they have a wide screen TV?
      Do they have cable?
      Do they have a pet?
      Did they need three kids rather than, say, two? Did they choose to have the third kid knowing it would push their financial situation to this point?

    159. Re:life-long updates by ConfusedVorlon · · Score: 1

      for a while, I set up my iPhone app (VLC Remote) so that if it detected that it was pirated, then when you opened a movie, it was always this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

    160. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck would you have fucking done if your fucking roof had fucking leaked?

      Put a fucking pot under the fucking leak

    161. Re:life-long updates by Binestar · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen an update to my X-Wing vs Tie Fighter game for a very long time... still waiting...

      http://xvt.uharc.net/

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
    162. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The average American - including all those billionaires - has less than $6000. http://finance.zacks.com/much-money-average-american-family-savings-7304.html

      That is affected greatly by the fact that there really aren't a whole lot of billionaires

      What the fuck would you have fucking done if your fucking roof had fucking leaked?

      There's no need for this level of rage. Take it down several notches, please; we can be civil in disagreement.

      I fucking am having a fucking civil fucking disagreement.
      You should fucking see what I fucking type when I'm being fucking disagreeable, fucker.

    163. Re:life-long updates by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 2

      A few questions,

      Do they have a wide screen TV?

      No

      Do they have cable?

      No

      Do they have a pet?

      No

      Did they need three kids rather than, say, two?

      0 Kids

      Did they choose to have the third kid knowing it would push their financial situation to this point?

      0 Kids

      As the man said it can happen to anyone

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    164. Re:life-long updates by StealthPanda · · Score: 1

      The fraud was reported the day after and STILL it took over TWO MONTHS to give my money back

      That sounds like a debit card, and not a credit card. Don't send money to the credit card company for fraudulent transactions. They are liable, not you, other than a few hundred bucks, which most CC companies waive for customers.

    165. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like millions of other families just like them they live for the next paycheck, they have no other choice, they simply cannot afford the luxury of a 3 week cash buffer, let alone 3 months.

      Unless people is in the same position but will less income are getting progressively further in debt-hell then YES THEY HAVE.

    166. Re:life-long updates by meowgoesthecat · · Score: 0

      Unless you are either extraordinarily lucky or talented, it will take you a good 10-15yrs...

      This is just not true. You do not have to be lucky or talented. It's easy to accomplish a 3 month buffer if you live within your means and use common sense. Its irresponsible for someone your age to tell people its nearly impossible. And its also completely wrong.

      WARNING... personal blah blah follows: I'm 25 and my wife is 29. Salary-wise, my wife and I both have "average" paying jobs. We BOTH work. We don't have kids b/c it does not make financial sense. We got our degrees in only FOUR years because we didn't go to College and play, drink, party, etc. Did we still have fun? You bet! While most all of our friends after graduation have all bought new cars (with nice big car payments), we still drive our "college" cars. We don't have cable. We cook and eat at home. We follow pretty much every other common sense practice you can imagine.

      --
      Meow
    167. Re:life-long updates by jythie · · Score: 1

      While I am not sure it is '99% of the time', I can comment my experience with credit card fraud was much closer to that then what you described. Over the years I have had my credit card stolen a total of 3 times from 3 different companies. In 2 cases I was quickly notified of odd behavior, and in one case I noticed it myself. It typically only took a single phone call to resolve thing with the suspicious purchases canceled out almost immediately, and at most I had to later fill out some paperwork outlining which charges on a particular bill were mine vs not. In each case they had a fresh card in my hand with a new number that I was able to use to continue to pay bills and such.

      I am guessing there is a whole range of experiences depending on one's particular setup and their bank.

    168. Re:life-long updates by jythie · · Score: 1

      Your story also highlights one of the critical factors in getting someone who cares... be polite. Maybe it is just luck of the draw, but I have found over the years that being polite and understanding to the service person on the other end of the phone goes a long way towards them wanting to be polite and helpful back.

      It is kinda funny, treating someone like a human really does result in being treated like a human back. Yet a lot of people have trouble with this simple pattern.

    169. Re:life-long updates by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Most amusing (and effective) DRM I ever saw...

      I concede the amusing part, but effective? Have you ever seen WinZip? That's what an effective anti-piracy system looks like. It maximized the right variable, and created a huge company out of one of the worst competitors at the time.

    170. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My cards say "Authorised signature" next to the signature box and "This card may only be used by the authorised signatory..."

      Of course, this is in the UK where we have probably better protection of such things.

    171. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple's Store is not safe. They only recently patched a vulnerability that has existed for years.

    172. Re:life-long updates by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Who doesn't save up at least a tiny bit of money (say 3 months salary) in case of a fucking emergency? Seriously, what would you have done if your fucking furnace suddenly needed fucking replacing? What the fuck would you have fucking done if your fucking roof had fucking leaked?

      Unless you are earning an awful lot of money and have no family, social life or interests outside work, it takes a long time to save up 3 months salary.

      Most of us normal people have to use credit cards for car/roof repair type emergencies.

      Where exactly do you think the large amount of personal debt comes from if everyone is happily saving a large chunk of their income?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    173. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use a prepaid card for online purchases. I figure I would rather a prepaid card with maybe an extra $10 get compromised than my bank account.

    174. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was a superbly classy bitchslap. Bravo!

    175. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A single or even 2 or 3 developer project that is a utility worth $5-$10 would need to be extremely useful. You'll have to give your customers a value add that they will not get with a pirated copy or open source alternative and if it is useful enough there will be an open source alternative already or coming soon. Purchasing needs to be easy.

    176. Re:life-long updates by Maximalist · · Score: 1

      Sounds like somebody stole your debit card that pulls from your bank account. That is different and more of a pain than a credit card. IF you were missing payments on your house and utilities and such like, the money was gone... not a disputed charge against your account, but actually gone. That sucks. But is not relevant to credit cards as such, which won't take your money away if you dispute the charges.

    177. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, he does seem to have quite a bit of money saved. If he has a mortgage and kids to feed, he could easily have close to $10k stashed away. Now, because money is the root of all evil and because he has some of said money, then he has a fair amount of evil at the root, causing this level of language.

      Q.E.D.

    178. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did this with my game. The code that checked the cd-key was easily bypassed, but that code also fixed a critical bug that happened on level 10.

      The first ISO releases of Sonic Adventure 2 for the Dreamcast had this protection scheme. On copied versions one of the penultimate levels the floor would have no collision loaded on level start, and your character would fall to their death continuously until the game was over.

    179. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both of those links are entirely misleading. They both consider "savings" to only include "savings accounts". Personally, I have lots of liquid assets that aren't technically in savings accounts. My most notable examples are my Roth IRA and company 401(k).

      Of course, not all 401(k)s have the same rules, but mine allows me to take out a loan up to the amount equalling my personal contributions (i.e. not including company match or any earnings on my contributions). That loan has a small 1-3% interest rate which I can pay back over up to 5 yrs. The loan can be done online and direct deposited to my checking acount; and that interest, when paid, goes back into my 401(k) as personal contributions. You would basically pay the interest to yourself.

      Roth IRAs are similar in that you're allowed to "touch" the money that you've contributed but not earnings on that money, but with a Roth IRA you can just withdraw that amount no questions asked. Example: after you contribute $5k/yr to your Roth IRA for ten years, you can withdraw up to $50k tax and penalty free without having to pay it back.

      Basically, I think most people have well over $500 in what I would call "savings". I know I sure as hell do, and I've only been in the workforce for three years.

    180. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      This was a credit card that had expired and so I received a new one in the mail. It was set up for automatic balance payoff on each statement's due date and after activating the card the thieves charged up over $3000 in a 2 week period and the fraud detection did not catch it. I noticed on my next statement period when reviewing all my bills that everything was screwed and being that it was paid for I had to get the CC company to give me my money back.

      Definitely CC fraud...and you are right that it sucked a lot.

    181. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      Consider the fact that maybe I was in the exact emergency situation that you mentioned asshole. You are exactly correct in the amount of money that I make a year and I have quite a bit of savings tied up in IRAs, 401k, and mutual funds but that has no bearing on how this fucked me over.

      My wife and my father simultaneously lost their jobs 2.5 months before this happened and I was paying my mortgage, 2 car payments, and my parents mortgage for 5 months straight so fuck yourself. Don't get me wrong, your situation sucks as well, but you are a prick.

    182. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      I have emergency savings and I have retirement savings. Every cent of my emergency savings was blown through in 5 months of paying my mortgage, both my car and my wife's car payments, and my parents' mortgage because my father and my wife lost their jobs almost simultaneously 2.5 months before this happened.

      I could have cashed on some of my retirement savings but ultimately my bank account used for billing is where the issue occurred and what caused the hassle with the credit bureaus and getting everything repaired...the CC was a replacement of my expired one and I had automatic balance payoff on my account on the due date of my statement. The thieves charged $3k worth of goods on my card over a couple weeks and the balance was paid as normal and I only noticed when I went back to do my monthly billing and review of my charges and statements. At this point the money was paid to the CC agency and it was a matter of prying it from their hands and forcing them to communicate with the credit bureaus and my other lenders who I was late paying to resolve the negative marks on my credit history.

      You are right that it isn't easy...I have been doing it for years and doing very well but even with 3 months of emergency funds things can happen that make that not enough.

    183. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      Did you mean to say that you had a debit card stolen from your mail? Because your story doesn't make any sense if a credit card was stolen. I'd also suggest that you should position yourself financially to better absorb a 3k hit. Living hand to mouth like this is just asking for trouble.

      Actually it was a CC that was a new replacement for an expired card and my account already had automatic balance payoff in place. My balance was paid automatically (which I no longer do) so by the time I got around to my monthly statement review of all my accounts, it was already gone. Prying my money out of the CC company's hands was the painful part.

      Also, many people can't build up a large safety net like this but I actually had around $13k in the bank 2.5 months before this happened (and I do have a sizeable retirement savings but most of it is locked away in IRAs or 401k). At that time, however my father and my wife both lost their jobs and I was paying 2 vehicle payments, our mortgage, and my parents' mortgage so the 'just in case' money went away because we were living in a 'just in case' scenario.

    184. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      Sorry I did not clarify properly. The fraud was reported the day after I noticed the money missing from my bank account. What happened is that a new card arrived in the mail since my previous had expired and thieves intercepted it. Only after my automatic balance payoff had submitted the payment to the CC company did I notice, the next day, and I then called my CC company to report it and was essentially told to 'prove it' because they already had my money. I don't do automatic payoff anymore obviously heh.

    185. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      Agreed. In this scenario I had received a new card in the mail after my previous had expired and I had balance payoff in place on my statement due date. I check all my account statements at the end of the month which was one day after the payment had been submitted already so I called the CC company the next day and they didn't take to kindly to me asking for my money back. Ultimately it was a huge song and dance to get my money returned to me and to get the negative marks off of my credit history from the other payments that were supposed to utilize those funds.

    186. Re:life-long updates by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Btw before you say "well that was physical CC fraud and not online", I have two customers and one relative that have horror stories WORSE than mine because they all just ASSUMED that online sites are secure and it wouldn't be a problem if something happened. Since there is still a human element to fraud detection/credit repair, shit can always get fucked up...badly.

      That's why I have a separate CC for online transactions, including PayPal, a card that's hard limited to $1000. I had to go back and forth a bit with my bank to be sure that they understood that no, they do not have my permission to automagically raise the credit limit on this card, that I really do only want a credit limit of $1000 on there. I used to have it at $500, but found that was just a bit restricting, especially around Christmas time :o)

      Regardless, if I do want to go buy something that costs more than $1000 online, I simply have to transfer enough funds to my net card so that it's carrying a positive balance just before I make the purchase. It means a couple of days waiting to buy*, but I see it as much better than the alternative. If someone does gets my card, there's not a heck of a lot they can do with it...

      * And can someone please tell me why, in this day and age, it still takes CC companies days, actual days to process payments? They sure don't delay that long processing charges.

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    187. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      also, you're bank sucks.

      You're calling thehem "bank sucks"? What makes him a "bank suck"?

    188. Re:life-long updates by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      Agreed and after my experience in this scenario I did have my balance lowered to $1000 for this exact reason.

    189. Re:life-long updates by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1
      I'm not trying to troll. But I really have to disagree with this.

      "30% is cheap for not having to bother with infrastructure, payment processing, refunds, tech support when the OS messes up breaking your app and a myriad other small bits and pieces which add up to a lot of time spent."

      No, it isn't. Not today.

      "Infrastructure" consists of a website, and informing the info sites of your product.

      "Payment processing" is 2.9% (to start) + $0.30 per transaction on PayPal. Very far from 30%.

      "Building and maintaining infrastructure..."

      ... is almost completely unnecessary.

      "... payment processing is time consuming and expensive..."

      No, it's not. With modern merchant systems it is cheap and almost effortless. (PayPal, Stripe, etc., etc.)

      "In fact, it is a value loss, since the convenience of app store purchases is high value for the buyer."

      "High value"???

      I can barely stand the (Mac) App Store. It's slow, it's poorly conceived and poorly executed, it has far too many bugs, and it is too self-serving and promotional. In addition, their approval process for apps is slow, arbitrary, and capricious. The App Store is primarily high value for Apple and its lock-ins, not customers. 30% for all that crap is highway robbery. If I were a developer (I am) working on the App Store (I am not), I would be very embarrassed to be associated with the final product.

      More and more OS X and iOS developers have been shunning the App Store, and they aren't crazy. They have actual reasons for doing it.

    190. Re:life-long updates by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "You can't be late on your mortgage payment because your credit card was stolen and/or used for unauthorized purchases because you are using THEIR money, not yours. "

      Wrong. You aren't looking at all the circumstances. If your card is stolen just BEFORE a mortgage payment is due, and you report it stolen, you can't make more charges on it. And how long does it take to get a new one?

      I won't debate here the wisdom of making mortgage payments with a credit card. That's another matter entirely.

    191. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I said usually, I haven't actually done a survey of every small retailer in the world.

    192. Re:life-long updates by jowaju · · Score: 1

      That's a cop out I hear a lot. If you have a house payment, a car payment, insurance, cable, etc, then you can get a credit card. I got one when I lived in a dorm in college and had very little income, I was 18 at the time. If you have screwed up your credit so bad you can't get a credit card, perhaps you should work on that before you worry about buying all of this stuff online with your debit card?

    193. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was with you until you mentioned the auto payoff. That makes the whole issue of the 3K squarely your fault. The prick was right. You wouldn't have been out a dime if you hadn't paid the fraudulent charges in the first place.

    194. Re:life-long updates by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "On paper I am in debt. If I sold everything I own I would be sitting on a fairly large pile. It all depends how you look at things."

      You can't have a positive "fairly large pile" in total assets and also be in debt "on paper", unless you're doing your paperwork wrong.

    195. Re:life-long updates by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Pardon me. That should have read "assets and liabilities".

    196. Re:life-long updates by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      Maybe in your country it is different. In my country you have to earn at least the average salary for the bank to even consider giving you a credit card (with the credit being somewhat less than what you earn).

      Also, why is borrowing money a requirement for better security? I mean other than the chargeback option, the credit card would be useless to me because I don't see a point in borrowing money from the bank.

      By the way, while not a complete protection, I have a separate debit card for use online (it cannot be used in an ATM as it is just a piece of plastic with no magnetic strip or chip) and only transfer enough money to it for the purchase. So even if some hacker got the number he would only be able to access a limited amount of money and only during a very limited window. 99% of the time that account is almost empty (less than 3EUR).

    197. Re:life-long updates by JBJblaze · · Score: 1

      Along these lines, make the program available in an App Store. This makes it easier for paying customers. It's tiring when I want to buy a program to have to do some background research on payment processors to see if a developer chose one that is trustworthy. But Apple already has my credit info, buying is easy and safe.

      Along these lines, do NOT waste your time on ANY of Apple's services. If you want DRM services like so, go Steam. It now has a section for software. Also is the greatest service for what ya need that you will EVER meet.

    198. Re:life-long updates by grantspassalan · · Score: 1

      Even if you don't use the Apple Store, your app won't install on Macs running OS X.8+ unless you have purchased an encryption code from Apple that costs $100 a year. The user can change that default setting, but unless you are known for your integrity and good software, many users won't bother to change that setting. They will just look for similar software in the store or elsewhere.

      I have purchased a few programs from the Apple Store and have never run into any problem with bugs or speed. I just put in my Apple password when asked and presto, the program downloaded and installed with no muss or fuss. When I recently transferred all my software from a spinning disk to an SSD, all I had to do is enter my password again once when I restarted all my downloaded programs. Apple may not be perfect, but they do have customer service down rather well. I think having to go to a multitude of websites to authenticate each program is a PIA.

      --
      A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
    199. Re:life-long updates by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      Except I guarantee you that some of those "pirates" were legitimate customers and all it will take is ONE person posting proof of purchase side by side with you treating them like criminals to ruin you.

      If he did it right, then every one of them was a pirate. There are three states the program can be in:

      1) Registered copy. Anti-pirate check is run, bug is patched, everything's good.
      2) Unregistered copy. Anti-pirate check is run, program tells user to get an honest copy, bug is never hit.
      3) Pirated copy. Anti-pirate check is bypassed, bug is not patched, program crashes on level 10.

      Note that the only way to encounter the bug is to bypass the anti-piracy check. A legitimate customer who's had the check falsely trigger will encounter case 2, not case 3.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    200. Re:life-long updates by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Balanced portfolio? Using stocks to get a return on relatively liquid assets? The only loan he mentioned is a mortgage, and it's difficult to raise additional funds through that route if he needs cash quickly. Accepting the interest costs may be worth reducing his risk exposure to a short term cash shortage.

      It's why I have a mortgage despite having the cash to clear it. I can't even justify holding the cash in an offset account; it means I'm paying no interest on the mortgage, but at the 1.25% interest rate I'd be far better off taking all of that cash, and all of the money available to me in a mortgage reserve account, and investing it somewhere. I can invest risk free (i.e. UK government backed) and tax free at 2.25% return, giving me a clear risk free 1% ROI.

      If the bank could do that without me, it wouldn't bother to have me as a customer. That doesn't mean that it's not a viable way for me to generate cash. It's also not a great return, but it is risk free; Dodgy G33za no doubt takes a more balanced risk approach and is happy with the returns he's getting, alongside the risk exposure and access to funds that it gives him.

      At its heart, traditional banking is about linking people with money to people that need money. Banks generate income through commission, in the form of fees and/or interest. Why wouldn't you be able to skip the middleman and do that better yourself?

      Borrowing money to invest it is easy. It's sometimes the sensible thing to do. When you've already borrowed money, investing further funds as opposed to paying off the loan is always a sensible thing to consider, and for me, would actually be far more sensible than avoiding interest on the borrowings.

      It's all down to risk appetite, financial discipline, market knowledge and self-awareness on all of those things.

    201. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should see the bridge I have in stock...

    202. Re:life-long updates by PuZZleDucK · · Score: 1

      Is that you Michael Stevens?

      --
      Can a person program a new solution to a problem? Why should anyone be able to stop such a thing? -Richard Stallman
    203. Re:life-long updates by Goaway · · Score: 1

      I did. I quote and pasted a link to apples eula to demonstrate this. Unless you're telling me it doesn't apply to OSX itunes purchases.. I did not see that language anywhere. If the code exists in ios it likely exists in the osx itunes application as well.. You'd be a fool to assume otherwise.

      An EULA does not magically make things technologically possible. And no, the code does not exist in OS X. I would not be a "fool" to assume so, I'd be well-informed. I actually know things about OS X. You, on the other hand, have zero knowledge yet you are making big claims that you can not back up.

      This is tangential to my point about control over software purchases,

      No, it is exactly the point you made from the start. You are now trying to move the goalposts when you find out you can't actually support your original argument. You said nothing whatsoever about "app stores setting limits on what functionality is allowed" in your original post.

      Even if they (or the authors) yank the app from the store (or update it into uselessness) and choose not to yank it from your device, how will you get it back later or install it elsewhere?

      How will you do that if somebody stops selling a program outside an app store? You are in the exact same situation there. Whether or not you are using an app store is entirely irrelevant to that question.

    204. Re:life-long updates by VJmes · · Score: 1

      That program is called Chocolat -- http://www.chocolatapp.com/

    205. Re:life-long updates by hh10k · · Score: 1

      No, I don't think so. But this wasn't a very highly selling game :-) I'm pretty sure the cracker was one of the first two purchasers, and once it was out, nobody bothered to come back and fix it up. Some people seem to have more fun breaking a game than playing it.

    206. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding. Personally, though, I'm convinced that the secret to getting people to not pirate a specific product to get them to somehow have a personal stake in their honesty being compromised if they DON'T pay you. Make them care. Make them feel like bad, immoral people if they pirate your stuff, and good, special people if they pay for it. It can be done. I've done it, and I've seen it. We have got to go back to real customer service and the personal touch. Marketers will eventually realize that we simply do not have the luxury of being impersonal anymore. Here's a good example of how this kind of thinking works.

                              Powell's is a perfect example of the only kind of physical bookseller that is surviving and making money today. (They're an indie local chain in Portland, if you don't live here...) They could never make it if their appeal consisted of being the cheapest way to get a book, because they're certainly not. Buying on Amazon and pirating ebooks is the cheapest way. But the reason why Powell's makes it is that people get a positive psychological experience from going there-- it means that they're cool and smart, that they are now in the group of the hipsters who eat vegan and buy local, that they feel better about themselves. You have to create this kind of potential experience for customers. It's the only way that will work!!
                 

    207. Re:life-long updates by BadDreamer · · Score: 1

      And I sincerely have to disagree with your disagreement. You're ignoring the cost of handling payment problems, refunds, tech support due to problems beyond your own control, the hassle for the customer to go to your site instead of the app store (I never do these days; not worth the effort, no matter how promising the app) and the cost of obtaining and maintaining your own certificates.

      You definitely need infrastructure and maintenance, even if someone else hosts it. You need to build a web site, which is a complete waste of time you could instead use for development. You need to push this site, which requires further time and money spent.

      And payment processing is a huge time and money sink. Every return processed takes effort, again better spent doing value add.

      App stores are very high value. I haven't purchased a program outside of an app store in over a year for my personal use, and I don't foresee doing so again. There's no point dealing with individual sites and disparate payment systems when I can just get the app with a click, having the security of hassle free returns if something isn't to my liking, hassle free maintenance and one point access. Well, two point, really, since I use Steam and Mac App store, but that is still considerably better than the 20-odd points it would be if the developers insisted on their own sales and maintenance points.

    208. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have paid thousands (er ok Hundreds) of smackers to Baen. For both digital and paper copies of books.
      When I go on a trip, I load up the tablet with books for the trip. At home I pull a book off a shelf to read, or read on my PC.

      The most effective marketing thing they do is the free first 5 or so chapters of new books. Just enough to get you hooked or turn you off.
      No regrets on any Baen book I buy. ( lost count how many)

      I now notice other booksellers doing the same toe-dipping marketing. They call it 'sample chapters'. Good ideas spread.

      Note: I now only go to the bookstore or Amazon to find books by Baen authors published by other houses. (Like the Safehold series)

    209. Re:life-long updates by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      No.
      No
      Yes
      Dumb question - Nobody "needs" to have children.
      Yes - Financial sacrafice is a given when starting a family, but money is almost universally a minor consideration in the decision. Your ignorance of that fact tells me you're not a parent.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    210. Re:life-long updates by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      We don't have kids b/c it does not make financial sense.

      Yawn, just another self-righteous post from an armchair parent.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    211. Re:life-long updates by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Did you seriously just say that it's impossible for a piracy check to flag a legitimate registered user? Did you really say that? Think carefully now, I'm giving you a chance to reconsider just how mindbogglingly stupid your post was and add "4) Registered copy. Anti-pirate check breaks and thinks it's a pirated copy, bug is not patched, program crashes on level 10." before I fucking DROWN you in examples of exactly that happening.

      "Did it right" in your post is synonymous with "has all the powers of god to magically make his program work perfectly everywhere ever."

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    212. Re:life-long updates by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "And I sincerely have to disagree with your disagreement. You're ignoring the cost of handling payment problems, refunds, tech support due to problems beyond your own control, the hassle for the customer to go to your site instead of the app store (I never do these days; not worth the effort, no matter how promising the app) and the cost of obtaining and maintaining your own certificates."

      No, I am not ignoring those. You have to deal with them no matter which way you go about it. You're talking about a difference that doesn't exist.

      The cost of a certificate -- if you mean from Apple -- is $100 a year. You also have to pay those regardless of which way you go (unless you want to sell an unsigned app, which lots of people do). Again, the difference doesn't exist.

      "You definitely need infrastructure and maintenance, even if someone else hosts it. You need to build a web site, which is a complete waste of time you could instead use for development. You need to push this site, which requires further time and money spent."

      Any developer worth his/her salt has a website for the product ANYWAY. Go to the goddamned Mac App Store, and try to find an app that DOESN'T have a link to the company's or developer's website. And good luck with that. Yet again, you're talking about a nonexistent "difference".

      "And payment processing is a huge time and money sink. Every return processed takes effort, again better spent doing value add."

      Payment processing is NOT a "huge time and money sink". If you think it is, you're looney. I do it (using a service) and it's ridiculously simple. And while it's true that for physical products returns are a pain in the ass, they're NOT for software. You just go to your PayPal (or whatever service) website, and click "refund". It takes about 1 minute per if you have to visit the site specifically just to do the occasional return. And you'd better do them only occasionally. if you doing lots of returns, you're doing something wrong.

      "I haven't purchased a program outside of an app store in over a year for my personal use, and I don't foresee doing so again."

      Wonderful. I am glad you found a method that works for you, as a customer. But this conversation was about the developer's end, not the customer's end. And I know many, many developers who don't like Apple's walled garden. You have not come even close to convincing me. In fact, you have mainly made arguments that don't even exist.

    213. Re:life-long updates by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      The last graphic design software project I saw on Kickstarter didn't get funded. It was a genuinely useful, clever idea, and it's a real shame that they didn't get funding, cos I for one would have loved the software to be available. But it didn't have the whizz-bang appeal of Star Citizen or Elite. I don't think this guy would get funded either...

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    214. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When rent is $250 a week and you're making $35 on 50 hours a week at minimum wage, it's amazing that anyone making that much money can survive at all. Never mind if they have kids. I mean sure they could take out $50k-100K in loans (if their credit isn't bad from being suckered into a deal that they couldn't afford), go to college and become a doctor to improve their situation. They can eat when their dead, right? If someone is blowing money they don't need to that is one thing, but i don't think you understand living paycheck to paycheck or know what it's like to earn minimum (think it's 9 in my state, and even that is incredibly low).

    215. Re:life-long updates by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      Did you seriously just say that it's impossible for a piracy check to flag a legitimate registered user?

      No, I did not. Read my post again, carefully: your scenario 4 is my "2) Anti-pirate check is run, program tells user to get an honest copy, bug is never hit."

      Only someone who's stripped out the piracy check -- something a legitimate user will not do -- will hit case #3, encounter the bug, post on the forum, and be told by the program's author that they pirated it. If the piracy check works, an honest user get a bug-free program; if the piracy check fails, an honest user can't run the program and so never encounters the bug.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    216. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      problems with your source:

      this was an interview of 1,100 people by phone. ludicrously few. also, no info as to WHO they called WHERE, what their demo choices are. also if some jackass from "CREDIT DONKEY" (the originator of the study cited in huffpo) calls you and asks how much savings do you have, do you want to give a real answer?

      we've been calling detroit and newark all day because the skew helps our agenda.

      also, i would call 41% more like 40% than half

    217. Re:life-long updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One version of Spyro for PSX was faulty at retail and the usual ppf patches to fix copy protection created a way to actually play the game. Built in defects, what could possibly go wrong?

    218. Re:life-long updates by BadDreamer · · Score: 1

      Wonderful. I am glad you found a method that works for you, as a customer. But this conversation was about the developer's end, not the customer's end.

      So you're saying the developer should ignore what the customers want.

      Excellent advice.

    219. Re:life-long updates by meowgoesthecat · · Score: 0

      Armchair parent? I don't see where I gave parenting instructions. I only stated common sense: don't have children if you cannot afford them.

      I sincerely hope you do not continue telling your children and/or their children that "lucky" rubbish. You imply that you are in a good financial situation (unless you consider yourself lucky to be in a bad one); but, then list your struggles and experience working a very difficult job. It sounds like you are in your situation because you busted your ass. Good job. Seriously. Good or bad, every person deserves the consequences of his decisions in life.

      --
      Meow
  2. Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    If you need DRM, you are ALREADY DOING IT WRONG!

    1. Re:Sigh by longk · · Score: 3

      Enlighten us. How should this indie developer release his $5 app the right way?

    2. Re:Sigh by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I like simple one-time online activation (if it's an open download), or put it up on app stores with a price but no other measures. It's not much of a barrier to a pirate, any more than the lock on my front door is a barrier to a thief, but it sends a clear message: "this isn't free software, you're supposed to pay for this". That message will deter almost anyone who can be deterred.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:Sigh by suutar · · Score: 1, Insightful

      imho, if the app is worth using, 5 bucks isn't enough pain to make me take the time to find a pirated version. If it's not worth using, it's not worth taking the time to find a pirated versions. Of course, that threshold is user-dependent.

    4. Re:Sigh by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Ask all the shareware developers that made money without it. It's been normal to NOT DRM your software for longer than you have been alive. Worlds best audio program, http://www.reaper.fm/ Reaper, is released 100% functional trial version and the paid version removes the Nag screen.

      get off your lazy butt and research what works.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  3. Professional Piracy: 3rd-Party, Paid Obfuscator by Neuroelectronic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The biggest thing you should worry about is not customers ripping off your product, but shovelware firms rebadging your product and stealing your market with their superior ability to reach the customer.

    1. Re:Professional Piracy: 3rd-Party, Paid Obfuscator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is why selling cheap below the impulse range and making the payment easy, clear and fast is hard to resist if that provides access to hassle free unlimited updates.

  4. Serial and calling home by longk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Serial number. "Call home" only on new install to check the serial.

    1. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't use software that needs to call home.

      If I download trialware or shareware and it fails because it needs to "phone home" then it gets uninstalled the very next click.

      I buy the software and where I install/run it is none of your business.

    2. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to institute a check when installing updates as well (keywords: When Installing Updates. Not every time it checks for an update and finds nothing). This ensures your paying customers are the ones getting updates.

    3. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure the pirates will get the updates some way or another, but at least they won't be using your bandwidth/servers to do so.

    4. Re:Serial and calling home by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I find the kind of drm Packtpub do with their ebooks more acceptable. i.e.: make sure the application displays the buyer's name and address somewhere at all times. That way, the users themselves will protect the application from getting into the wrong hands. And if it gets onto the internets, you know who leaked it.

      I do understand this means more work for you (recompile a part of your app for every single customer) but it is also a lot less trouble for the user (not having to mess around with registrations, serials, etc).

    5. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And make it completely transparent. Inform the user their serial number will be validated online when installing the first time. Inform them their serial number will be validated when performing the installation of an update. Don't try to hide it, you customers will appreciate the up-frontness of it.

    6. Re:Serial and calling home by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You don't need to recompile. A signed key file with the user name in it should work.

    7. Re:Serial and calling home by scdeimos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This, plus if you're intending to limit the number of concurrent installs for your product *also* allow for a given install to be DE-registered:

      1. provide a de-register menu/setting using the same "call home" service - people periodically upgrade or replace their machines, or
      2. using a web interface on your site to delete a registration - sometimes machines crash and can't be restored from backups.
    8. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And, it has the problem that if the activation server disappears in the future, you can't play your game anymore!

    9. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't assume your customers have always on, non-filtered, internet connections when (re)-installing the software.
      - Generate an licence request file, with several computer hardware details (network card MAC, CPU type, etc.) and address information.
      - Give the user the option to send this request automatically, or let the user send it via e-mail (if the computer has no internet connection)
      - Return an encrypted licence file, which the user can backup and use to enable the software on that hardware, even after re-installing the operating system, or your company no longer exists.
      - Implement a way for users to "return" a licence, so they can re-install on different hardware (or sell the software to someone else.)
      - Provide a free network licence manager, so users can activate the licence manager program instead, and then run 1 copy anywhere in there local network, linked to that licence manager. (without activation)
      - Let users re-activate once every N month, even without "returning" the previous licence, so if there computer breaks after N months
        they can re-install even if they can't return the original licence anymore.
      - Users must re-activate every X major updates, but when they are activated, also let them run all previous versions of the software on the same computer, even if you don't provide technical support for those older versions anymore.
      - When you discontinue the software, keep the activation servers running forever.
      - When stop the activation servers or are about to go bankrupt, provide all your current and previous customers with a version that does not require activation, or make an activation free version available on your website.
      - Testing all of the above so that activation can _never_ fail on any Windows/Wine version or language version or DLL-hell for any of your paying customers. This will cost you a lot of time, but even worse:
      - If there is similar software available, with less restrictive or risky copy protection systems, you will have to price you product significantly lower than those, which will eat into your profits, without preventing piracy.
      - Know that like any copy protection, a skilled programmer can break it in about a day.

    10. Re:Serial and calling home by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      No thanks.. unless you plan to offer an escrow refund when you shut down the activation server.

    11. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Serial number. "Call home" only on new install to check the serial.

      Also, a serial number mechanism that expires have "x" weeks (for some value of x).

      So when a customer buys it they get an e-mail with it, and they can enter it anytime with-in the next (say) six weeks. After six weeks the S/N is no good and they have to request a new one (perhaps via a convenient link in the purchase e-mail).

      This way if serial numbers get onto the Internet they won't be good forever, but for a limited time. Anyone doing searches for your product will have to look for fairly recent forums posts. Posted binaries (with READMEs with the S/N) will also go stale after the allotted time and will have to be continually refreshed.

      It's impossible to stop piracy, but if you make your product easily purchasable, at a reasonable price, then a good portion of people will purchase. Adding a small speed bump to "casual piracy" will hopefully push people to do the Right Thing(tm).

      Other suggestions that are pretty good: encoding the purchaser's name and contact information in the S/N (or make the name/e-mail algorithmically linked to the S/N), using the "DRM" of the platform (iOS), are also pretty good.

    12. Re:Serial and calling home by countach · · Score: 1

      Don't call home. Seriously. A simple serial is plenty. If you want to hack around any scheme, you can do it. A serial is enough to stop 99.9% of people taking it without paying.

    13. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No. Just no.

      If I buy your software, it is absolutely unreasonable for you to withhold anything from me that would prevent me from using the software forever. If I buy a new computer in five years and you decide it's not worth your while to keep your authentication servers running that long, I'm out of luck. Even if you plan to keep your servers running, you might not even still be in business in five years. I'd rather not take that chance, so in my opinion if you require online authentication you've lost the moral high ground. I would consider it more ethical to pirate the software than to pay for it.

      To put it another way, I'm willing to pay money for software that I can run forever regardless of how long your company stays in business or how long you keep your authentication servers running. If you're willing to provide that, you can have my money. If not, don't complain if I obtain it through other methods, because you didn't offer what I wanted to buy.

    14. Re:Serial and calling home by Deathlizard · · Score: 1

      Some other notes to consider:

      1) Limit the number of activations per serial to 1 activation per day. If serials will be tied to multiple installs, tie that limit to that amount (IE a Key for 100 users will allow 100 activations a day) and monitor keys for statistically blatant abuse (IE this 50 use key had 100,000 attempts today). No one will legitimately run into these limits unless their hobby is installing software.

      2) have a grace period to phone home if they put a legit key in so they can install without issue if the phone home server is down or they hit the daily activation limit or something. If you have a trial version, say 30 days. make the grace period to phone home 30 days. Do not pester the user about phoning home until they are close to the trial period expiring, say 7 days before the 30 days expire.

      3) Have an exit plan. either remove the Check on the last version you release or after a certain amount of time passes (say 5 years) let the software work with a legit key without phoning home (so you don't have to maintain a server if the software goes abandoned for some reason).

      and finally.

      4) Expect piracy, Especially if it becomes popular. Someone will either release a keygen or crack out the compliance checks on your executable. Piracy is a constant. Adding more Checks that get in the way of your users will just shun legitimate sales while not doing any damage to pirates. Always treat DRM as a way to slow piracy rather than stopping it, and treat the customer as innocent until proven guilty instead of the other way around like most other software firms do.

    15. Re:Serial and calling home by Zalbik · · Score: 1

      Oh Noes! What will I do?!?! You won't buy my software cause it phones home?!

      How will I ever live with the loss of that one user? How will I feed my children?

      WILL NO ONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?

    16. Re:Serial and calling home by egcagrac0 · · Score: 2

      Your strategy reminds me of a vendor I had to work with. I dislike that particular vendor only for their draconian software licensing enforcement*.

      Supporting an authorization scheme like that is reasonable if you're a big business company and your customers are also big business.

      For everyone else, it's an undue hassle.

      Frankly, for a $5 application, tying it that heavily to the hardware will cost more than the money you're making.

      *I don't object to licensed software; but in this case, the software had no utility or value unless it was being used to communicate with a piece of their hardware. Managing the licensing on the software just so the engineers could talk to their hardware was an unneeded hassle, and we ended up switching to another vendor's hardware (and software) because their interface software wasn't pathologically broken by licensing.

    17. Re:Serial and calling home by MurukeshM · · Score: 1

      What part of "only on new install" do you not understand?

    18. Re:Serial and calling home by Wickedpygmy · · Score: 1

      I agree with this

    19. Re:Serial and calling home by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      One user? Hopefully you lose many more than that.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    20. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shameware. I like it.

    21. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've never used an OS where programs store important stuff in the registry? Making it basically impossible to copy over an installed program, instead you need to install every program whenever you reinstall the OS, install a new version of the OS or buy a new computer...

      "Sorry, but the authentication server has been decommisioned, you cannot install this program on your new Windows 9 machine. You'll just have to keep that Windows 2000 machine around".

    22. Re:Serial and calling home by MurukeshM · · Score: 1

      So you're talking about a $5 (small) utility which will be in use in, say, 5 years from now? So you honestly expect to pay 5 bucks and have the vendor keep a server alive for your lifetime to activate it? We can generalize all we like, but for the app in question, I doubt presence (or the lack thereof) of activation servers in the distant future is a problem.

    23. Re:Serial and calling home by jfelix1010 · · Score: 1

      So you honestly expect to pay 5 bucks and have the vendor keep a server alive for your lifetime to activate it?

      Yes, if vendors chooses some sort of activation scheme, then it is their responsibility to maintain that infrastructure indefinitely.

    24. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what happens when the site is no longer available so the software can no longer call home ? Been there, done that, not interested.

    25. Re:Serial and calling home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This, plus the crippled functionality. Look at MediaMonkey, you can download the full app for free, but without a purchase and serial number, you can't use some of the more advanced functionality. For example, you can't do a mass library reorganization in the free version, some (all?) of the encoding from CD is disabled, etc...

    26. Re:Serial and calling home by TheNastyInThePasty · · Score: 1

      That's an interesting idea and I like it. However, what if the person that buys and distributes your product is an identity thief? I suppose it still would deter most people who would pirate something but not go so far as to steal an identity. It just seems problematic to have an innocent person's personal information spread everywhere like that.

      --
      The best thing about UDP jokes is I don't care if you get them or not
  5. No point asking here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One side wants information to be free, the otherside wants market forcesto prevail. Eitherway you lose as the price will be $0

    1. Re:No point asking here by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wish the grandparent had not posted AC, for he makes a very real point:
      Supply/demand pricing structures simply do not work when the cost of creating the supply is nothing.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:No point asking here by Jeng · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The cost of RE-creating the supply is nothing.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    3. Re:No point asking here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grandparent? don't you mean parent? or were you referring to the person who posted the article itself?

    4. Re:No point asking here by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      You're right, I meant parent.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  6. Human nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't matter, because in the end it is human nature to take the product of others' labors without compensating them . . . .

  7. Don't even try by leromarinvit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just don't. The people who want to pirate will, no matter what you do. Any DRM would only inconvenience legitimate customers. Just make it easy to buy your software for people who want to do so, and provide something worthwhile for the money (e.g. answer support questions, respond to bug reports, etc.)

    --
    Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
    1. Re:Don't even try by M0j0_j0j0 · · Score: 1

      I disagree with you, you should at least have a soft protection to prevent the average Joe from emailing the program to his BFF which just has to run the exe after.

    2. Re:Don't even try by longk · · Score: 1

      Exactly. This is much like putting a lock on your bike. Most locks are cut quite easily, yet not having a lock in a world of mostly locked bikes puts you at considerable higher risk than applying even the most simple lock.

    3. Re:Don't even try by pclminion · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Any DRM would only inconvenience legitimate customers.

      As a customer who won't buy DRM-protected stuff, I don't consider the simple act of entering a license key to be DRM... What do you think? As long as the validation of the key happens locally, I don't mind doing this. In a way, it makes the purchase feel a bit more personalized.

      Yeah, I know the license validation can be hacked around. That's not the point, it's kind of like signing your signature to something. I can forge someone else's signature, but I know I'm being dishonest if I do that.

    4. Re:Don't even try by jd2112 · · Score: 2

      Just don't. The people who want to pirate will, no matter what you do. Any DRM would only inconvenience legitimate customers. Just make it easy to buy your software for people who want to do so, and provide something worthwhile for the money (e.g. answer support questions, respond to bug reports, etc.)

      Don't be an EA. Be more concerned with keeping the people who do pay happy and less concerned with those that don't.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    5. Re:Don't even try by ultranova · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree with you, you should at least have a soft protection to prevent the average Joe from emailing the program to his BFF which just has to run the exe after.

      But that requires either a physical token (DVD) or activation servers, both of which instantly increase costs a lot over simple downloads and inconvenience legitimate users. It also won't stop the software from ending up on Pirate Bay.

      Just live with the fact that some people will use your program for free. You can't stop it from happening, and will simply piss off your customers by trying. And besides, Joe Average emailing your program forward will probably end up increasing your profits - after all, your biggest challenge is going to be getting word of its existence out there, and it's always possible that whoever it is emailed to will decide to pay the $5 out of the goodness of his heart, or whoever he emails it will, or...

      It is perfectly natural to get angry at the thought of someone benefiting from your hard work without paying you, but if you run a business you can't afford to let it affect your decisions.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    6. Re:Don't even try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a customer who won't buy DRM-protected stuff, I don't consider the simple act of entering a license key to be DRM... What do you think? As long as the validation of the key happens locally

      What do you do when need or even want something that does have DRM? Pirate it? That's why we have such terrible DRM in the first place. People pirating stuff they don't want to pay for, for whatever reason be it lack of money or just wanting to not pay.

    7. Re:Don't even try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree with you, you should at least have a soft protection to prevent the average Joe from emailing the program to his BFF which just has to run the exe after.

      But that requires either a physical token (DVD) or activation servers, both of which instantly increase costs a lot over simple downloads and inconvenience legitimate users. It also won't stop the software from ending up on Pirate Bay.

      No, soft protection, i.e. one that doesn't require either of those. Like a serial key or a signed keyfile.

    8. Re:Don't even try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a simple test of what DRM is too invasive is to consider the following. Can someone who buys this software dust of his current era computer 50 years from now and still install it. (And feel nostalgic about old work, remember when he played a certain game and so on.)
      If that is not the case then DRM is too intrusive. It also means that the software isn't something that is supposed to last but rather something you buy to use for a short time and then throw away and it's value to the customer is significantly lower than competing products without the DRM.

      Of course I can't speak for anyone else but I know that I am reluctant to invest any money/time into phone-home software that I know won't be around 5-10 years from now.
      I do not mind hardware dongles or other forms of copy protection that I can use without an internet connection.

    9. Re:Don't even try by pclminion · · Score: 1

      What do you do when need or even want something that does have DRM? Pirate it?

      I go without. I don't play games, so that removes a whole world of personal conflict.

      It occurs to me that I wasn't quite accurate. I pay for streaming video services, so I suppose DRM is involved there. But unlike the DRM I've heard of in software, I've never had usability problems due to that, and I'm okay with paying a monthly fee for streaming as opposed to owning the content outright. But for stuff I actually buy to own, I won't do it if there's DRM.

    10. Re:Don't even try by grantspassalan · · Score: 1

      Just don't. The people who want to pirate will, no matter what you do. Any DRM would only inconvenience legitimate customers. Just make it easy to buy your software for people who want to do so, and provide something worthwhile for the money (e.g. answer support questions, respond to bug reports, etc.)

      If you are programming for an Apple device, why not just simply use their store(s)? Yes, you pay 30%, but then you don't have to worry about DRM or marketing your product, instead concentrating on making it the best software of its type in the respective store. Once a user is logged in to Apple, there is no easier way that I know of to buy software for your Mac, iPhone or iPad. Lately Microsoft also has jumped on the store bandwagon.

      --
      A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
    11. Re:Don't even try by devent · · Score: 1

      For what is a serial good? It's just a waste of time for both the developer and the customer. A pirate will just copy&paste the serial from a .txt file or from a serial generator.

      So for what is that good? Just to annoy the customer?

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    12. Re:Don't even try by yakovlev · · Score: 1

      I basically agree, but what I would do is:

      1.) Put something like this on its own page during the install:

      This software was created by ****. If you did not purchase a license then you are using the software illegally. If you did not purchase a license, please visit ****.com (link) and purchase a copy.

      2.) Of course, also include a reasonable EULA that you make them agree to. This lets you prosecute egregious offenders.

      3.) And finally, if you have an easy way to tell pirated versions from non-pirated, re-display the install page periodically (for instance, when installing updates.) This (and this alone) is a reasonable reason to have an install key. It isn't to activate the software (you don't even have to require a call home to use the key), it is to tell if a bunch of people are re-using the same key, and to encourage them to purchase a legal copy. By simply using this to display a purchase encouraging page, you aren't even really inconveniencing users who somehow are detected as having pirated versions in error.

    13. Re:Don't even try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed,

      Licence keys enforced locally have been in games since day one or two...

      Better downloads have key files or registry entries. I once had a program that went to window's registry and checked for three values.

      UserName
      ComputerID
      LicenceKey

      The license key was a hashed version for the username, computerid, and a few random phrases in the source code.

      easy, local "semi-random" license keys

    14. Re:Don't even try by yurtinus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Local validation has a drawback - one user's validation could be spread far and wide. I can see somebody saying "I bought this neat program, here's the install key!" Sort of like locking up your bike but leaving the key in the lock. I suspect submitter is looking just to prevent casual piracy - get those who aren't going to go to Pirate Bay to pay for the product - which is tough to do without keeping some track of the number of installs per key. I personally have no problem with a one-time online activation (with a reasonable grace period), but I understand a lot of people aren't. You could just as easily validate the key before allowing a software update - perhaps a "Validate Online" prompt during install extolling the benefits of your future updates, access to user forums, etc.

      The point here isn't to harass the people installing it on two or three machines - but to find out when a key has been compromised (ie: hundreds of installs). At that point it's up to submitter if he wants to disable the key or simply use it for tracking. Either way, you don't want to demonize the customer - offer them a new key (via email to the original registered address or some similar means).

      Lastly (or firstly and foremostly) - accept that your product *will* be pirated. Accept that it's likely the majority of installations will be pirated. You can't let this get to you - after all, the more people use your software (even pirated), the more exposure you'll have and the more real sales you'll get. You know your software sucks if nobody wants to pirate it. When it comes down to it, if you have a good product which is convenient enough to buy legally, you'll get most of your potential customers to pay for it.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    15. Re:Don't even try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just don't. The people who want to pirate will, no matter what you do. Any DRM would only inconvenience legitimate customers. Just make it easy to buy your software for people who want to do so, and provide something worthwhile for the money (e.g. answer support questions, respond to bug reports, etc.)

      A good car thief can steal you car even if you have quality locks and am alarm. But you still lock your car right?

      Hell, doors are an inconvenience. But I still shut my front door when I leave my house and I lock it. But why do this if someone can kick the door down? What if a locksmith can pick the lock?

      So don't be retarded and say "don't protect your work because some will pirate it"

      Don't go overboard, but a basic level of protection is advisable.

    16. Re:Don't even try by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      Require a name as well. The name would be the name on the credit card used to purchase the game (in all caps). The combination of name and key would unlock the product and (like another poster said) anyone who leaks it will have their name spread far and wide on the internet.

    17. Re:Don't even try by pclminion · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The purpose of the serial, in my mind, is not to prevent piracy but to identify the customer for purposes of support, enabling feature sets, etc. Basically, to register the product.

      As a legitimate user, I *like* seeing my name show up in the "About this software" dialog box, along with information about the particular set of features I have purchased, info on how long my support contract is valid for, etc. I am not at all annoyed by it.

    18. Re:Don't even try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OTOH, when I have to enter the 10th instance of a 25 alphanumeric char key, or when I've had to rebuild and spend hours simply finding all those keys for software I bought god knows how many years ago, or when I've set up machines for other people and I start to think about all the sheer number of hours wasted digging up old software license certificates just to prove to some developer that, no, actually, I'm not stealing their product, or even when I think about my poor eyes watering from squinting at tiny fonts. Or all the processing time and bandwidth all those systems have wasted on the same..... Yeah. I get just a little bit shitty about DRM and licenses keys..... Why do the good guys have to pay a price so you can feel you've done something to stop them giving away what clearly they were willing to spend money on? Its enough to drive one to piracy!

      What ever you decide to do, I hope you make it easy for the people who actually do pay. I'd have two functional states (like everyone else suggests), an unpaid somewhat cobbled version and a fully functional excellent version. An option for the unpaid version is ad supported - make them look at full screen ads for a bit. You want to get the free loaders using your product because a good chunk of your real sales may come from recommendations.

      As for protection, I think I'd have two keys. One supplied by you that is installed when the customer pays (lets call it: ) and the second generated by an algorithm that looks at various features of the device creates an identity strings like etc, then sha's the string into (say ) and reports that back to your servers upon use. When your systems detect using , if the doesn't exist in your database, it emails the customer saying a new device is trying to use your license - do you approve y/n.

      Don't check licensing with use - keep usage stats and only check when the network is up and once every n usages. Check usage in background. Don't let it interfere with normal operation.

      If they say no, your software removes from the software and it reports unlicensed to the end user, offers up a payment gateway, and a means to remedy their unlicensed state via messaging (email probably) if necessary; *Shrug* your software might screw up!

      Of course, if the binaries can be easily unpacked, then no amount of copy protection is going to deter someone who has the knowledge, time, determination etc not to pay your $5 - $10 fee. However, giving them a nuisance version that does actually work might dissuade them from making the effort.

    19. Re:Don't even try by duk242 · · Score: 1

      I like the idea of a simple serial number that phones home, but doesn't require to phone home to work. This way you can track installs for each serial, but requires human intervention to do anything about it. (EG. Someone installs your software on their 5 machines at home, no worries.. Someone shares their serial all over the net and you end up with 100+ installs on the one number, then you start to worry about it and work a way to deactivate the program).

    20. Re:Don't even try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That defeats the purpose of making the full version installer avail on a server you control.. no adware added on by such lovely sites as cnet, no chance of it being virus infected and piggybacking on your poor app when its torrented/posted on usenet etc..

      As soon as you do ANY sort of anti-piracy beyond putting out a quality product at a decent price and supporting it well.. your asking for trouble...

      Especially if you are a small developer.. If you want to kill your business all you need is a few customers to start "sharing" the pirated version with "addon" crap before anyone knows who you or your product are.. and the kids will all suddenly hate your product not the retard who pirated it and uploaded it with a virus for giggles.

    21. Re:Don't even try by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Make it easy to buy, that's an important one.

      Related: what happened to shareware? In the 1990s, the BBS and Fidonet era, shareware was really common. Nowadays often called "crippleware" which sounds far worse, it basically was a preview that was more or less functional. Register your copy (i.e. buy it), and you got full functionality. It was also usually registered to one's name - which didn't stop piracy of course.

      I have heard it worked rather well in the US, but not so much in Europe. Payments were a big issue: it's very hard to make an international payment of like US$ 10, or equivalent in one's local currency. Bank charges for a remittance are usually higher than that amount. Also app stores didn't exist, so using your credit card to pay was also not an option. As a result it was for me, living in The Netherlands, usually simply impossible to register a shareware program, for the simple reason that there was no practical way to make a payment. The only way was to gather like 20, 30 people, and register as a group - but that was a lot of work for the organiser of course.

      That payment issue is for me very important. Make it easy for people to pay, and it takes away another barrier to having them part with their money.

      Nowadays the way for me to make money on an app would be to use the good old shareware model, plus the ease of payment provided by various app stores. The free version would have ads, maybe an interesting but non-essential feature disabled, and give links to the app store to buy the full version. Mobile platforms have good app stores, desktop platforms are still lagging in that respect but some are available. Being in an app store gives exposure plus an easy avenue for buyers to actually pay.

      This should deter most would-be pirates, as there is not much reason to pirate an already-free app. And it gives those a reminder that they can get the full version easily and at little cost.

    22. Re:Don't even try by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      That's why we have such terrible DRM in the first place.

      You have terrible DRM because developers implement said DRM. 'Piracy' is just a justification, but it is ultimately the developers (or companies) that decide to implement the DRM, so most of the blame rests with them.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    23. Re:Don't even try by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      No need to leak anything; just download a crack.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    24. Re:Don't even try by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      A good car thief can steal you car even if you have quality locks and am alarm. But you still lock your car right?

      Fortunately, locking my car door doesn't have anything to do with other people. On the other hand, DRM affects paying customers, not just the ones who made the software. Not a very good analogy, in my opinion.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    25. Re:Don't even try by ultranova · · Score: 1

      No, soft protection, i.e. one that doesn't require either of those. Like a serial key or a signed keyfile.

      Those can be copied and e-mailed along with the program, thus they don't accomplish anything.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    26. Re:Don't even try by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      If you did not purchase a license, please visit ****.com (link) and purchase a copy.

      It's been a while since I did the commercial software thing, but back in the 90's there were 3rd party widgets you could license into your app that handled the entire purchase/registration process in-app that took care of all the difficult (validation/security) work for you. With tokenized credit card purchases and PayPal these days I'd think they'd be even more valuable. Maybe somebody has some links to whomever the market leaders are now. Use them, don't try to roll your own, don't ask people to cut-n-paste and manage codes, tell them which file has their key/certificate to back up. Maybe these components even let them print a QR code of the license key to file in their actual files.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    27. Re:Don't even try by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      As a customer who won't buy DRM-protected stuff, I don't consider the simple act of entering a license key to be DRM... What do you think? As long as the validation of the key happens locally, I don't mind doing this. In a way, it makes the purchase feel a bit more personalized.

      So, from this we can determine you do not buy any modern Windows systems or Apple systems (since they both have "DRM protected stuff" in the OS/hardware). In which case, if you buy anything modern, you likely rely on free and opensource software mostly and probably not the target audience for this software developer.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    28. Re:Don't even try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't even bother with that. Just like 1st post at the top of this thread said... have free updates for registered users. Did you update the software to be better? Inform registered users they can download it.

      Look at the program GSAK for geocaching. You can certainly pirate it, and it will work perfectly well. However he's CONSTANTLY updating things, adding functionality, taking people's advice and changing things, bug fixes, everything.

      I gladly paid for that software, and would do so again if need be.

    29. Re:Don't even try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A million times, this.

      You can't stop the pirates. Its a joke to even try. Who do you think you are? Do you realize how many pirates there are out there, how crafty they are? Even if you come up with some new tech, (now you're wasting development hours on non-customers, bad developer!) they'll find a way to crack it. They have thousands times more man-hours to put into cracking things than you have to put into developing new locks for them to pick. Don't do it. Its dumb.

      Instead just come up with more and more content to convince people who ARE you customers to buy your product. That's business.

      You don't see Coke spending money to prank Pepsi customers, no; they're busy marketing to would-be Coke customers. That should be you. Find ways to reach the would-be customers, don't even THINK about the non-customers (pirates), as a businessman they mean NOTHING to you. IGNORE THEM.

  8. Advice from a service technician by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whatever you do, man, make it easy for people doing reinstalls to preserve the install key. A lot of times we redo a computer for a customer and we can't put back some software because there's no way to get the key. Something like an online system where you enter your e-mail address or something to re-register could be nice in those cases, assuming the worst case that whatever stored the registration was deleted.

    Don't require online connectivity to run once registered though, that's just asking for trouble.

    1. Re:Advice from a service technician by grantspassalan · · Score: 1

      Whenever I buy some software, I copy all installation keys into an encrypted file which then gets backed up normally. I also keep that encrypted file in my dropbox online.

      --
      A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
    2. Re:Advice from a service technician by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

      URL pls?

    3. Re:Advice from a service technician by grantspassalan · · Score: 1

      That URL is top-secret information that you are not entitled to unless you have the proper security clearance. Sorry!

      --
      A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
  9. No need to go overboard by mattventura · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can divide people into 3 categories: those that WILL buy it, even if they could pirate it, those that might pirate it or might buy it, and those that will not use it at all if they can't pirate it. The second group of people is going to be the only ones that you might convert from pirates to customers by imposing DRM and that group might be quite small. Don't screw over the first group with overintrusive DRM.

    1. Re:No need to go overboard by Grayhand · · Score: 1

      You can divide people into 3 categories: those that WILL buy it, even if they could pirate it, those that might pirate it or might buy it, and those that will not use it at all if they can't pirate it. The second group of people is going to be the only ones that you might convert from pirates to customers by imposing DRM and that group might be quite small. Don't screw over the first group with overintrusive DRM.

      I hate to risk the troll for pointing out the obvious but the reason there are groups two and three is because they can pirate and these days group two is the largest just based on web posts so by doing nothing you risk part of group two becoming group three. This is from some one whose life is made a living hell by DRM, I buy pro software and the DRM is pretty draconian. I miss the old days when everything was pretty wide open but back then less than 1% pirated. The music industry is the poster child for what can happen. Sadly attitudes have changed so much there's no going back. It's a cold war between content creators and pirates and the rest suffer.

    2. Re:No need to go overboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who will only try software by pirating it first, in order to avoid paying money for a product with no value for them, will fall into your third category, but it doesn't make sense to exclude them as customers. Some of them will be willing to pay money for your software after they've tried it.

    3. Re:No need to go overboard by neminem · · Score: 1

      I am firmly in group 2. For any given application, depending on a number of factors, I might decide to buy it, or I might decide to purchase it. These days, the existence of DRM has pushed me into the former category more than the latter, as it seems like DRM has become an excuse to basically hijack your computer, and make it a royal pain in the buttocks to get the damn thing to run properly.

    4. Re:No need to go overboard by neminem · · Score: 1

      Err. That should read, "I might decide to pirate it, or I might decide to purchase it." >.>

    5. Re:No need to go overboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Group three really does exist; teenagers for example. There really are some people who will never buy at any price.

      For group 2, we need to make piracy cost more than buying.

      Now, this guy's market (graphic designers) are notorious douchebags, and notoriously incompetent, so it's more likely that group 2 is large and it will be easy to make them buy.

    6. Re:No need to go overboard by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Group 3 wouldn't buy even if they couldn't pirate. Group 2 is not the largest. It is by far the smaller, as many studies already pointed, and you would be very shocked to realize that the people you lose from group 1 by adding DRM offsets any gain you may have by "converting" group 2 people.

    7. Re:No need to go overboard by Immerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, since after decades of trying nobody has ever managed to do more than delay the pirates for more than a few months I think groups 2 and 3 can be assumed to be permanent characteristics. And I seriously doubt your 1% figure, unless you're talking so far back that people didn't really think of software so much as the product as the reason people bought your hardware. Certainly in the late 80s I remember piracy being pretty rampant - software, music tapes, VHS, you name it. It just wasn't the sort of thing you would notice unless you actually saw somebody making a copy. It's more convenient now that you can copy stuff from people you've never met, but I think the bigger change is just that now the content creators can watch it happening.

      And frankly group 3 is almost irrelevant. It doesn't matter if they're responsible for 99.99% of the copies in existence, nothing you do will make them buy it, so any attempt to stop them from copying is 100% wasted effort. In fact it probably *reduces* your sales because sometimes people from group 1 or 2 will learn about it through them and then pay you. So in a rational world the goal is then:
      1) Don't seriously inconvenience goup 1 - these people are your bread and butter, you should be doing everything you can to make them happy.
      2) Do everything you can to convince group 2 that they should pay rather than pirate. Just keep in mind that you're competing against your own product stripped of all copy protection, so more secure and annoying copy protection actually works against you. Possible strategies include leveraging guilt and/or minor inconvenience during install (serial numbers, please don't copy screens, etc), or providing incentives for legitimate customers. Major or ongoing inconveniences just provide large-scale pirates incentive to strip out your copy protection in exchange for some geek cred, while providing potential customer incentive to choose the pirated version over the legitimate one. Moreover a poorly or maliciously implemented copy protection bypass can compromise the integrity and stability of your software in ways that aren't obviously due to the bypass, damaging your brand image.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    8. Re:No need to go overboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your claims are unsubstantiated heresay and speculation, unless you have a scientific reference since you mentioned science.

      In some software industries, from insiders I know that piracy rates are up to 90%, so it is very likely that group 2 outweighs group 1.

    9. Re:No need to go overboard by Swarley · · Score: 1

      I've always noticed among people that it's extremely easy to convince oneself that they are "breaking the rules" for a "legitimate" reason when it means they'll get something for free. People don't like obtrusive DRM, sure I get it. But one guy on one forum has one problem with a games DRM and all of a sudden it's war on that DRM and thousands of people latch onto to piracy as the holy cause despite all the evidence suggesting that likely none of them would have found the DRM obtrusive. I'm not saying there haven't been abuses by game companies and people left out in the cold by ruthless, greedy corporations. But the ease and vigor with which people jump on this particular bandwagon at the slightest provocation can only be due to the rewards they'll get for finding this tenuous moral justification. Basically if all pirate sites charged you the same money for the cracked version as the original developer did for the legit version this anti-DRM crusade would be almost completely deflated with no real cause to speak of beyond the relatively few cases of real abuse (Ubisoft, EA, Stardock) and people with philosophical hangups or truly unique computing requirements, which is likely to be a MUCH smaller set of the current "anti-DRM in any form" group that we're stuck with.

    10. Re:No need to go overboard by fredprado · · Score: 1

      Have you ever heard about the relation between prices and demand? When the price is 0 the demand is immensely greater than when the price is not 0. These 90% of people that pirate are just the added demand that wouldn't exist if the price was not 0, as found here:

      http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/03/new-research-music-piracy-should-not-be-a-concern-for-copyright-holders/

      And here:

      http://ipts.jrc.ec.europa.eu/publications/pub.cfm?id=6084

      Just to cite the last published study among many.

    11. Re:No need to go overboard by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      I buy pro software and the DRM is pretty draconian.

      Then if possible, I suggest you stop buying it; you're only encouraging behavior I believe is immoral.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    12. Re:No need to go overboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a lot of uncracked apps... And always were. Many cracks are not for redistribution, mainly to keep the dev from changing a reg-scheme.

  10. Random internal activation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Activate on install and random behind the scenes renewal with no penalty if the server couldn't be found. No user notice. Have the software just report install code to you randomly every 6 months and see what percentage has been pirating your version 1. Go from there. You may need more or less.

    This way no one is hurt if it doesn't connect again and you get some usage data on serial number duplicates. No other data should be sent.

  11. Nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People who want to pirate it will find a way, just price it right, offer support and don't be a dick. As a bonus you get to advertise it as DRM free.

  12. Not possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Short of having some of your application run "on the cloud" like SimCity or Diablo III, your application will be cracked and distributed in 48 hours *if* it is worth pirating. Feel free to head on down to the pirate bay for proof of this.

  13. Don't by nitehawk214 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously. Don't. If your program is any good, people will pirate it. Actually even if your program is terrible people will pirate it, just because they can. And they can, no matter what steps you take. However people are vastly more likely to give money to a indie developer. Pirates can be classified people that are either compulsive/hoarder pirates and wouldn't pay for it anyhow, genuinely need your program but cannot afford it, and people that will pay for it after a "trial run" when the realize you are an indie developer and your program is reasonably priced.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    1. Re:Don't by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Most pirates are casual pirates that wouldn't put much effort into it.

      Some are determined, and you can't stop. But to say all are that way is ignorant of the pirate ecosystem.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Don't by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2

      Most pirates are casual pirates that wouldn't put much effort into it.

      Some are determined, and you can't stop. But to say all are that way is ignorant of the pirate ecosystem.

      True, but thanks to the miracle of software, it only takes one person to crack the DRM. Then everyone just follows suit. Most people couldn't figure out how to break DeCSS on their own, but it's pretty easy to use a DVD ripping program.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    3. Re:Don't by neminem · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But all it takes is one determined person to put it up on the internet, and it'll spread immediately to all the other, lazier people. The only surefire way to avoid anyone pirating your software is to be so darn indie that nobody has heard of your software, and thus, nobody has heard of it to decide it would be fun to crack.

      Going with the huge numbers of other people who say: a little bit of DRM (like a one-time key check, or looking something up in the manual or something) is infinitely better than none, but a lot of DRM (like phoning home randomly all the time, or analyzing the system's memory every time anything does anything, or anything that might break for legitimate users or force them to jump through a bunch of hoops to validate) is infinitely worse, and will drive people to piracy who might otherwise have paid, while not inconveniencing the serial pirates at all, because they would've pirated it anyway.

    4. Re:Don't by evil_aaronm · · Score: 2

      I agree: the crackers out there will crack, regardless. Further, the petitioner never mentioned to what degree he wanted to stop piracy. What level of piracy is acceptable? 0%? Not possible. At the other extreme, if no one is paying, then, yeah, something's fucked up. I'd guess a decent product might actually see around 5% to 10% piracy, but what are you gonna do? The harder you make it for people to rip you off, the more likely it is you'll piss off your honest customers. How does that help them? They're not the ones you want to hurt.

      As I see it, I develop because I like to, and if people want to pay me for what I produce, I'm happy. If they want it so badly that they're willing to steal it, I'm happy with that, too. As long as people are using my stuff.

    5. Re:Don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people couldn't figure out how to break DeCSS on their own, but it's pretty easy to use a DVD ripping program.

      Breaking DeCSS is no way to rip a DVD.

    6. Re:Don't by kpainter · · Score: 1

      Seriously. Don't.

      I agree. I was a long time user of UltraEdit and later UEStudio. I liked their products and purchased lifetime upgrades for both home use and work. When I purchased, they gave me a serial number that they seemed to change a lot. This was presumably a futile effort to shake the pirates. Nonetheless, I could put it on all my machines and I was happy. Then they hired some guy who was going to turn them into a real software company and he put limits on how many activations you could have per license. I think that number is two activations. I just decided their editor wasn't worth the effort and went to an open source alternative. Here is a specific case where their desire to prevent piracy (which it didn't - you can easily find cracked copies) cost them a paying customer. You rock IDM - not.

      As to the original question, I think a serial number is fine. Much more than that and you risk pissing off your paying customers.

    7. Re:Don't by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Don't do anything? Offer the download and have a "click here to donate" button? I've seen and used those programs and have very rarely paid anything. There are a great deal of people who would pay for a program they use, but don't simply because it was convenient enough to get for free. Hell, I'd say this is most people.

      The determined pirate you will never stop. Elaborate DRM schemes will only hurt your paying customers. The answer isn't to do nothing and hope people pay you - because most won't. You need to make the purchase process convenient and unobtrusive.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    8. Re:Don't by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Did you tell them that you ditched, and why? Because if you've already paid for lifetime upgrades, they may not know that they lost a customer. I guess they screwed you and you don't owe them anything, but letting them know may stop other companies from doing the same in the future.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    9. Re:Don't by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I meant breaking CSS. In my defense, it's been a long day.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    10. Re:Don't by grantspassalan · · Score: 1

      Offer a free trial for a limited time, but freely down loadable. After the trial period expires, let the program still work, but lengthen the startup time each time it is called. If your program is a productivity tool, the lost time will soon cut into this productivity. Eliminate that delay when the user buys a registration. For games this trick may not work, unless the startup time of the unregistered game increases exponentially each time it is launched.

      --
      A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
    11. Re:Don't by FrankSchwab · · Score: 1

      As a long-time paying user of UE (although I haven't upgraded in several years), I think their original model was great. You could install and run for 30 days, and had to register after that time. During the 30 days, everytime you ran the program there was a brief splash screen that said "27 days left in evaluation period". Once your 30 days were up, it informed you and gave you a clickable link to their site. No online activation, no always-on servers - when you registered, you got a signed certificate in email that, once installed, now proudly announced your name in the help->about screen and eliminated the evaluation period.

      Sure it was piratable - but you didn't have to download the pirate version just to try it out and decide if you liked it. You didn't have to give up an email address, or a credit card, for the evaluation either. You got 30 days to become dependent on it if it was good, or to stop using it if it was bad. You could send a copy to your friend, your mother, your co-worker with a clear conscience - they had 30 days. The shovelware firms didn't need to find a cracked version to include in their "collections" - the factory-distributed version worked fine - for 30 days. After 30 days, you got to decide - is this worth buying, or not? Anyone who used it for 30 days and then pirated it wasn't going to pay for it anyway.

      It seemed like the least intrusive, most customer friendly approach I could imagine for someone trying to make a living off their software development efforts.

      /frank

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    12. Re:Don't by kpainter · · Score: 1

      No, I didn't. I have lifetime upgrades but only for a limited number of activations. I had a computer go tits up on me and it was a hassle to get the license switched over. They haven't really screwed me. I just lost interest in continuing with them.

    13. Re:Don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However people are vastly more likely to give money to a indie developer.

      Citation needed.

    14. Re:Don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I see it, I develop because I like to, and if people want to pay me for what I produce, I'm happy. If they want it so badly that they're willing to steal it, I'm happy with that, too. As long as people are using my stuff.

      Haha that's a nice outlook, but where do you get your food? And how do you program at the soup kitchen?

    15. Re:Don't by Wickedpygmy · · Score: 1

      I believe the view above is a little biased. Lots of people pay for software, just not many slashdot users! Some basic resilience to disassembling/debugging tools like Hopper Disassembler, Ollydbg, Immunity debugger will slow down the cracking process... (although I have no idea what this protection would look like). I suppose there is a balance of the effort you put in to protect your program vs the protection you get, but just because a window can be broken it doesn't mean there is no point closing it.

    16. Re:Don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Going with the huge numbers of other people who say: a little bit of DRM (like a one-time key check, or looking something up in the manual or something) is infinitely better than none, but a lot of DRM (like phoning home randomly all the time, or analyzing the system's memory every time anything does anything, or anything that might break for legitimate users or force them to jump through a bunch of hoops to validate) is infinitely worse, and will drive people to piracy who might otherwise have paid, while not inconveniencing the serial pirates at all, because they would've pirated it anyway.

      Also little bit of DRM makes you infinitely more assholish as from that point on you are directly dictating how your software is to be used after first sale.

    17. Re:Don't by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Most pirates are casual pirates that wouldn't put much effort into it.

      Installing a crack doesn't require much effort.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    18. Re:Don't by Inda · · Score: 1

      I'm that pirate. I'm the pirate who helps distribute. I'm the pirate who tries everything once. I'm the pirate everyone in the office speaks to about software... Or I was.

      My solution? Update it regularly. Fix bugs regulary. Post about them. Keep your software alive.

      What pissed me off most? Updates. I'd download v1.0 and it would have bugs. Because I didn't register, I didn't hear about v1.1 that came out a week later. Manually updating software is a royal pain in the arse when you have a lot of it.

      Paying 99p for an app that updates on its own once a month is a joy. Some of the apps I own might only change a single pixel on a button but if I know something is being improved upon, that 99p seems like a bargin. Everyone loves a bargin.

      Technically? I wouldn't know. Giving up my email address is normally the most I'd be willing to give you on top of a small amount of money.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    19. Re:Don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I am so indie I am invisible and someone made a keygen for one of my games. I the people that do it just enjoy it.

    20. Re:Don't by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      No, I didn't. I have lifetime upgrades but only for a limited number of activations. I had a computer go tits up on me and it was a hassle to get the license switched over. They haven't really screwed me. I just lost interest in continuing with them.

      I would consider not being able to use software you paid for due to stupid company policies to be getting screwed by the company.

      As far as not letting them know how they messed up, that is your prerogative. If you had reported it, they would likely have simply fixed your one case and kept on with their dumb policy, so it may not have changed anything.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    21. Re:Don't by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Don't do anything? Offer the download and have a "click here to donate" button? I've seen and used those programs and have very rarely paid anything. There are a great deal of people who would pay for a program they use, but don't simply because it was convenient enough to get for free. Hell, I'd say this is most people.

      The determined pirate you will never stop. Elaborate DRM schemes will only hurt your paying customers. The answer isn't to do nothing and hope people pay you - because most won't. You need to make the purchase process convenient and unobtrusive.

      The question is "How do I prevent piracy?". The answer is "Don't". As to the question of "Should I make it easy and desirable for people to give me money?"... Well I cannot think of a situation where this is not a good idea.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    22. Re:Don't by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      It's not "how do I prevent piracy" - it's "how can I deter piracy." There are many answers to that question with varying levels of reasonableness.

      You're looking at it from an all or nothing perspective. You're right - it's pretty much impossible to keep a program from being pirated, but some basic deterrent like an install key is an unobtrusive step that submitter can take to keep the honest people honest.

      --
      +1 Disagree
  14. Sell services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sell things related to the product, like your expertise in using it.

    Give people the opportunity to feel good about giving you money. Software is considered free, culturally. But premium extras make people feel affluent.

  15. You should be so lucky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    If your software actually gets pirated that means people like it enough to want it and need it to bother to pirate it. You should be so lucky to write a piece of software that is that popular. Quit flattering yourself.

  16. One-time online activation. by kimgkimg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One-time online activation seems to work pretty well and as an end-user I find this the least objectionable. Issue a unique code to the user and have them enter that into an online form and give them an activation code. Make sure the user can find this unique code/activation again if at some point in time they need to reinstall the product and limit the number of re-installs allowed to some reasonable number.

    1. Re:One-time online activation. by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      What prevents the user from just passing along the pair of the unique code and the activation code to other people?

    2. Re:One-time online activation. by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Make sure the "reasonable number" is unreasonably large if you must limit reinstalls. If the software can only be installed 5 times I probably won't buy it, if it can be installed 128 times I'd have much less of an issue with it. It's a small enough number that it won't be a significant source of piracy (someone will take the effort to crack the activation) and large enough that few people (if any) will run into it in normal use.

      Also tie the activation to updates. Make it so that the legitimate purchasers get something the pirates don't in exchange for their money.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    3. Re:One-time online activation. by teh+dave · · Score: 1

      I agree with this, but I would suggest that instead of limiting the number of activations to some fixed number, instead keep it theoretically unlimited, and only start blocking new installs with a given key once they reach a threshold of number of activations within a given time frame.

      For example, you could implement an "activation bucket". Define a maximum capacity of the bucket, for example three or four activations. Every time a user activates, remove one from the bucket. Every three or six months or whatever, add a new activation to the bucket unless it is full. If the bucket becomes empty and the user tries to activate while it's still empty, lock their account and get them to contact you.

      This approach allows people to install your app on a few of their machines after they buy it (if you allow that in your license, if not then reduce the size of the bucket to e.g. two and allow people to add more licenss to their account), for example a couple of laptops and their desktop machine. If the machines are replaced or reformatted, they use another activation later on down the track. But if they share the key with more than one or two people, they are locked out because they run out of activations. I think this is a reasonable compromise between allowing your legit users to do what they want and preventing someone from leaking their key onto a torrent site and allowing thousands of people to pirate it.

    4. Re:One-time online activation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft does a pretty good job with this, though they don't really tell you the rules. It seems like, if you haven't installed in the last sixty days or so, it'll let you install it again without complaining. If it's less than sixty days, but the machine seems to be the same as the last time you installed, it still won't complain. If it's less than sixty days and it seems like it's a different machine, you'll have to call and talk to a real person, but if you're not an obvious pirate, they'll flip a switch and you'll be good to go.

    5. Re:One-time online activation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft does a pretty good job with this, though they don't really tell you the rules.

      Windows XP's forced telephone reactivation bugged me enough that I switched to Linux on my personal computers in '06. For my personal computers, I've spent hundreds of dollars on licenses for Windows 98, ME and XP. (Believe it or not, I actually liked ME). But all it took to lose me as a customer for life was a threatening reactivation screen which appeared on my machine after doing an upgrade. It made me feel like I was no longer their valued customer, but a target for abuse instead.

    6. Re:One-time online activation. by tepples · · Score: 1

      The fact that the unique code is generated from the computer or the e-mail address used to pay for the software or both.

    7. Re:One-time online activation. by MadKeithV · · Score: 1

      I've used software that allowed only a low number of concurrent installs (I think 3), registered online. It provided an online interface to move an install: log in, unregister one of your licensed machine, get back the key you used for that one, use it for the new install. Worked well enough for me through about 6 or so moves in the past years.

    8. Re:One-time online activation. by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      I wonder how long it would be before somebody distributes a cracked program with these methods worked around. Now very long I wager depending on how the scheme is implemented.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
    9. Re:One-time online activation. by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      Of course not very long. It NEVER takes very long.
      You don't need DRM.
      If you for some insane reason decide you must spend money on DRM, make sure you use DRM that will anger the minimum number of purchasers.
      If you are including online-based DRM make sure there's some advantage to purchasing the software to offset the disadvantage of having DRM.

      Steam works because they follow these principles with their DRM. It rarely causes problems for legit purchasers, and it has several advantages for buying the real thing: steam "community", update integration, voice coms integration, etc. While the initial launch was terrible and slow the service has since been improved, and it now functions quite well at adding significant value. For some people the added value won't offset the ethical compromise of using DRM, but for others it will.

      --
      Not a sentence!
  17. KISS by niado · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The simpler the better. My philosophy on this is that anyone with a moderate amount of determination will pirate your software. This is unlikely to heavily impact your bottom line, and (especially from an indie standpoint) you might not be able to afford the time, energy, and money required to implement a draconian DRM method anyway. Just use serial numbers or something equally mundane and then don't worry about anything beyond that, because you literally can't prevent determined piracy.

    1. Re:KISS by Chuckstar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree. Have just enough a hurdle that the honest-but-lazy user doesn't just keep saying to himself "I'll just pay for it later".

      Full disclosure: I've been that honest-but-lazy guy who kept meaning to pay for shareware and then never got around to it (even though I really meant to and wasn't really trying to avoid it).

    2. Re:KISS by marcosdumay · · Score: 2

      I'd go further.

      As a rule, if people will pirate some software, you'll want it to be yours, not your competitors... So, don't make it too hard, it's against your interests.

      That, and make it clear for the pirates that their softwre is not legal. For example, you could make it run anyway, but issue warnings in case the validation fails. Make it clear that it is happening because the copy is ilegal, and you'll stop bothering them once they buy it. (Yeah, that's not my idea, I'm copying it.)

      Also, somebody already said, app stores. Make it EASY to buy, any way you can. And if it makes sense, you can try software as a service (AKA, make a cloud application, web site, or watever name fits better), people simply don't pirate those... what has the downside that people won't pirate it.

  18. Grapeshot as they board? by BenJeremy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Shiver their timbers.

    Seriously though... you will get a variety of answers here on Slashdot, ranging from "open source it and give it all away" to "put in ads and give it away". Charging for things seems to be a sin to some slashdotters.

    I think a CD key, for PC games, strikes a reasonable balance, so long as you have some traceability (online activation is nice). Have you considered Steamworks? You'd have a distribution platform (though it wouldn't limit where you could sell it), and a proven, relatively non-intrusive DRM strategy.

    Of course, Steamworks games get cracked, but you can never really stop determined crackers or pirates. All you want to do is encourage legit buyers to remain legit buyers. Steam is a pretty decent ecosystem for developers and gamers.

    1. Re:Grapeshot as they board? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't steamworks for games only though?

    2. Re:Grapeshot as they board? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > charging for things seems to be a sin to some slashdotters

      Those would be Group 3. Group 3 will never pay, but will put up with arbitrarily complicated piracy schemes.

      They are not in the target market. Ignore them.

      However, they *are* in the target market for open source software. They are in many cases willing to discuss bug reports and workarounds.

    3. Re:Grapeshot as they board? by ekgringo · · Score: 1

      They recently started offering non-games through Steam.

    4. Re:Grapeshot as they board? by flimflammer · · Score: 2

      Not anymore.

    5. Re:Grapeshot as they board? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello,

      A casual pirate here!

      I'm happy to pirate whatever, but steam is working so well I'm actually paying for things. It's just easier to pay than to find stuff on pirate sites. Also you always have to dodge worms & trojans on downloads, so paying makes things _easy_. The key here is the payment process has to be easier than searching for the thing on piratebay. Also, I find I'm not paying more than 19.90 bucks for anything. That's my limit. Because steam has lots of stuff on discount or cheaper than that I find myself also not even pirating the expensive titles, but instead getting some interesting cheaper ones. What this means is AAA games don't get my money ( unless I get them on discount ), but then, they never did. Now I do spend money on games, but it's the cheaper games I buy.

  19. Develop an awesome product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And people will buy and respect you. :)

  20. Think of your paying customers foremost by Gaygirlie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You have seemingly already decided that you're going to implement DRM, so the next question you should ask yourself is: "How much am I willing to inconvenience my paying customers?" Also in similar vein is the question: "How much time am I willing to spend on a protection scheme that will be circumvented anyways?" The problem with DRM is that it doesn't stop dedicated people at all, it merely stops the "let me borrow the CD and I'll install it, too" - crowd, nothing else, and therefore it's waste of both your and your customers' resources to use much time or effort on it.

    A simple install-time-only online activation is probably the best of both worlds as long as you can ensure that your activation servers are always accessible. Anything else is just a losing game.

    1. Re:Think of your paying customers foremost by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      To add further to the end of that post, if you do opt for the online activation model, make it apparent to the end user that if the activation server is ever taken down, that you will release an unlocked/simple serial version so they will not lose their investment even if you no longer wish to support the activation servers.

    2. Re:Think of your paying customers foremost by Bo'Bob'O · · Score: 1

      I'd like to add an addendum to this.

      While for a small utility like this, I agree with what the parent said. It's perfectly reasonable, and easy to record.

      For expensive, specialized utilities I actually prefer key-server type systems. Why? Because there are many applications that many people need, but only just once in a while. I can't tell you how many times that we have seen a application we liked, sometimes into the thousands of dollars, but more then one person needed to use it to make it worthwhile. Even though only one person at a time would be using it, we needed it on multiple computers and there was no way to afford enough copies. So instead, we just skipped it and found another way around it with our workflow on what could have been a sale.

    3. Re:Think of your paying customers foremost by grantspassalan · · Score: 1

      ... The problem with DRM is that it doesn't stop dedicated people at all, it merely stops the "let me borrow the CD and I'll install it, too" - crowd, nothing else, and therefore it's waste of both your and your customers' resources to use much time or effort on it.

      A simple install-time-only online activation is probably the best of both worlds as long as you can ensure that your activation servers are always accessible. Anything else is just a losing game.

      Online activation is a bad idea, because if a person's Internet connection is down or your server is inaccessible, people can't install your program. Any good program should have a free trial, where everything works normally. After the trial period expires, the user can decide whether it is worth buying the program installation code. If the user decides not to buy the installation code, have the program disable vital functions, such as being able to open and save files and use the clipboard.

      --
      A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
    4. Re:Think of your paying customers foremost by devent · · Score: 1

      And then you get your ass sued in Europe, at least I really really hope.
      The EU just ruled that first-sale is valid for software, that means you can't take away my right to re-sell your product.
      You really should lose any copyright protection if you use DRM. Copyright comes with rights, too. Like fair-use rights, backup rights, re-selling rights. But DRM takes away those rights. Why should you have any privileges if you choose to use DRM?

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    5. Re:Think of your paying customers foremost by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      You seem to believe that DRM can't exist with first-sale - laws, but that's not true. Even the most horrible, most draconian DRM may perfectly coexist with the laws if the publisher allows you to contact them and transfer the license to the new buyer. Ie. it's not the DRM in and of itself that is the problem, it's the publishers who refuse to do this.

    6. Re:Think of your paying customers foremost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what about those without Internet access on the computers they are going to use it on? (Yes, lots of people work in that kind of environment and such online only activation is extremely frustrating)

    7. Re:Think of your paying customers foremost by devent · · Score: 1

      Yes lets the publisher decide if I can exercise my re-sale right.
      Like I let the publisher decide if I can play the music or video on a device the publisher do not approve.
      How about this: you buy a book on Amazon Kindle and then ask Amazon if you can re-sell it, lets see.

      You see the problem? With current laws it is illegal to break DRM, even for legal purposes. That means that I have to ask the publisher for everything. That is real purpose of DRM, not the strawman "piracy".

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    8. Re:Think of your paying customers foremost by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Yes lets the publisher decide if I can exercise my re-sale right.

      I don't know what's wrong with your reading-comprehension, but that's not what I said. I said that they ARE the ones deciding that, not that they should be.

      You see the problem? With current laws it is illegal to break DRM, even for legal purposes. That means that I have to ask the publisher for everything. That is real purpose of DRM, not the strawman "piracy".

      Yes, I know. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

  21. Charging too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it is easier to pirate than to spend the $5 - $10, you are charging too much.

  22. Price it reasonably by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's probably the easiest way to deter piracy: price it reasonably for it's job. Most people would rather get it legitimately than pirate it. Make it easy to download without going to shady download sites like CNet (I say shady because there's no way of telling where what they're hosting came from or who put it there, and I do not trust software where I can't trace it's provenance). Hosting downloads from your own domain will help, and leads into the next item: mark each copy you sell. Encode a serial number and buyer identity into each copy, making each one unique to the buyer. Make it clear when they buy that the copy's been stamped with their identity, and do the same on the initial splash screen if any and in the About dialog. This won't be seen by most people as anything particularly objectionable in itself, at the same time it'll make them skittish about just handing it out willy-nilly knowing that if someone they give it to uploads it to a torrent site or something it'll be them clearly identified as the source. It won't stop the hard-code pirates, but then very little will. It won't stop people from installing an extra copy for family. But it should be enough to convince the majority of people to tell their friends to just shell out the $15 for their own copy.

    1. Re:Price it reasonably by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Of everything I've read, I thnk yours is the most reasonable idea. Just stamp it with the identity of who you sold it to. Brilliant.

      "This copy licensed to....".

      It's easily defeated, but as people said, someone determined will defeat anything you come up with.

      Since I don't have mod points, this is what you get!

      --PM

    2. Re:Price it reasonably by kwerle · · Score: 1

      Yup. In addition, make it insanely easy to pay for something. When you buy something in a store, you grab the item and exchange some cash or slide a card at the door. Too often, software isn't that easy to buy.

    3. Re:Price it reasonably by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      This is the answer I would place my bets on.

    4. Re:Price it reasonably by Swarley · · Score: 1

      I definitely agree and also want to point out that stopping you installing it for family probably shouldn't be a priority in the first place. I think interfering with they very organic nature of sharing among people you care about is only ever going to be a hindrance or perceived as greedy. Stopping someone making 10,000 copies and handing them out to complete strangers is the much bigger issue financially and morally.

    5. Re:Price it reasonably by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Total Commander (nee Windows Commander) does this beautifully - trial starts up asking to press 1-3 (randomly assigned each start) and then works fully-featured (forever). If you buy it the splash screen shows your name. Your name is stored in a signed 'keyfile' that you can put on every computer you use (or a flash drive or whatever). It's pretty perfect and even if he ever charges for an upgrade, I'll happily pay it again (as long as it's another few years before the next paid upgrade).

      Oh, the splash screen also have a direct 'buy now' link, makes it easy to convert impressions to sales.

    6. Re:Price it reasonably by GumphMaster · · Score: 1

      Any thought on how you do this on a signed installer/executable fro Windows/Mac without deploying a full signing mechanism to your public web server?

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    7. Re:Price it reasonably by dobbshead · · Score: 0

      That's probably the easiest way to deter piracy: price it reasonably for it's job. Most people would rather get it legitimately than pirate it.

      Price is really the crux of it. Price it more cheaply and more people will buy it rather than pirate it. It really is that simple. All the other anti-piracy methods are merely delaying tactics. Piracy will always happen, regardless of the protection.

      The problem is finding the balance of price to sales that you're comfortable with. Digital stuff is weird in that the "startup cost" of the very very first copy is stupendous, but all subsequent copies cost mere cents to produce. So selling something for $100 bucks to 10 people (and have 1,000 people pirate it), is nowhere near as profitable as selling it for $10 to 1,000 people (and have 10 people pirate it).

      A real life example:

      In the 1990s in Hong Kong, the VCD black market was huge. Legit VCDs went for HK$150-350 (US$20-45), recent movies being at the top end. Organised crime cartels sold them for HK$100 (US$13) for four movies, in temporary shops (they'd stay open til busted, usually about 2-3 months) making enough profit to run the risks of imprisonment, fines etc. No legislation or customs task forces could even make a dent. Shops that were shutdown would reopen either close by or in the same shop within a week or two.

      Eventually, they finally found a way to put an end to the piracy: the legit VCD makers started charging HK$35-80 (US$5-10) per movie. Overnight, the pirates disappeared. Even though they were still charging more than the pirate outlets, people preferred the legit copy.

      As a footnote, amusingly enough, the movie industry didn't take the lesson on board and tried the same overpricing the product foolishness with DVDs and more recently with BluRay. By then internet-based piracy had gone mainstream, offering not only really cheap movies, but far more choice and convenience. The triads didn't bother nearly as much (or at all in the case of BluRay), because the money wasn't there, so organised piracy was much less of a problem. Instead individual piracy took hold. This time it's the legit DVD/BluRay sellers that are closing down, killed off by the movie companies' refusal to accept the reality of the market: people aren't willing to pay that much for movies.

  23. Ignore it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best way to combat piracy is to ignore it.

    If you can't make any money while ignoring piracy, then you are doing something else wrong.

  24. why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could take the Microsoft approach. Don't worry about piracy, and let the unauthorized user crowd ramp up your user base, and therefore your usefulness.

    Ask yourself why Wordperfect, which was the standard, got blown out by the vastly inferior Word?

    1. Re:why bother by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      You could take the Microsoft approach. Don't worry about piracy, and let the unauthorized user crowd ramp up your user base, and therefore your usefulness.

      That's certainly one approach; but I wouldn't advise it.

      Ask yourself why Wordperfect, which was the standard, got blown out by the vastly inferior Word?

      there's an anti-trust case against Microsoft on that - related to misbehavior of Microsoft during the release of Windows '95. It had little to nothing to do with piracy, and nearly everything with Microsoft crippling the ability of Novell (or their predecessor) to timely release a compatible version of Word Perfect for Windows '95.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    2. Re:why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe that accelerated the process, but as someone who was invested in WordPerfect (I was a WordPerfect E-mail Admin back in the early 90s - yes, WordPerfect had an e-mail application) I can tell you that the shift to Word was well under way before Windows 95 released.

  25. Walled gardens by BLToday · · Score: 1

    You may not like it but it works for a lot of things. It's just annoying enough to deter most casual pirates. For most people, walled gardens provide a safe and simple installation process for little utilities. And given the fact that you're a small developer it may help your exposure since most of the desktop walled gardens (Windows Store, and Mac OS Store) aren't overflowing with applications. Given your price range it's going to be very hard to justify marketing cost on your own.

  26. ! deterrent by Spazmania · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Deterrent is the wrong goal. Give up on the folks who choose to steal it. They aren't worth your time or concern. Worry about making it both easy and encouraging for the folks who are inclined to pay you to do so.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    1. Re:! deterrent by geekoid · · Score: 1

      The barrier of entry is an important factor with many things, piracy included.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:! deterrent by ultranova · · Score: 1

      The barrier of entry is an important factor with many things, piracy included.

      It is impossible to get the barrier of entry so high that no one on the planet could pirate it, and once anyone has, the barrier falls to zero for everyone else - they just need to download the cracked program.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    3. Re:! deterrent by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      Stopping piracy is not the correct goal. Making money is the correct goal. You make money by convincing people to pay you, not by convincing them to abandon their attempt to use your product.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  27. Don't do it.. ask for payment... ask for donations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it is a small useful utility make sure people have an extremely easy means of making a financial contribution to you. GUILT them into it. Don't force them. Then if you can tie it into something else shoot for that. GNU/Linux distribution? Tie it into GNU/Linux friendly hardware. What physical goods does your target audience need? Partner with those companies and take a percentage of the profits.

  28. Treat the users as intelligent people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know it sounds unbelievably crazy, but how about this:

    Give away one version for free, missing some pro feature like exporting to standard format, but otherwise fully functional. Make it very clear that you spent time and effort making this, and it's only $10, and strongly encourage people to support it if they find the product useful.

    Try to make yourself look smart and respectable and sell the real version through a simple process, maybe through something like a user/password database, but not necessarily serial numbers.

    People will steal it, sure, but they're not going to be your core customers anyway. Its their bad karma, and the people who steal $10 applications from indie developers are just scummy immature douchebags anyway and wouldn't give you money even it you were asking for $0.01.

    Furthermore, if you have any kind of forum for support and simple questions, ensure that you have a way of identifying paying customers.

  29. Up your price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Charge 3-5x more and don't worry about it (these graphic designers are getting paid, right? Not hobbyists?). Alternatively - Make it a webapp so they have to pay you to have access.

    1. Re:Up your price by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      yeah hi, as a potential customer, 'web apps' are worth precisely $0. Why? I could wake up tomorrow and find that it's gone, or altered such that a much needed part of my workflow has been obliterated by your marketing department. No thanks.

  30. Fair pricing is the best deterrent by radiotalent · · Score: 1

    You're already on track to the best solution. Charging $5-10 for an a useful application (which seems pretty fair to me depending on what it does) is a great deterrent. As others have said, there are those that would pirate it if it were 25 cents, those that would buy it at 100x it's list price (or not use it) and those in the middle who will pirate when the price to value ratio is out of skew or the price point is simply too high for their budgets.

  31. Don't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't waste your time. Just do some simple check (e.g. a registry key) and remind the user on the splash or main screen that your game is not freeware and make it very easy to buy/register it or donate.

  32. Give value for money by Calibax · · Score: 1

    Assuming you have a good product, the best way to deter pirates is to set a reasonable price so that people feel they are getting value for their money. The lower the price, the less people will want or need to evade the cost. There are studies showing the price points where you tend to meet increasing resistence, although I don't think they have much data on the sub-$10 field.

    Having a free trial period with limited time or limited features would probably help to ensure people can feel good about spending their money.
    Offering support would help also.
    Free updates would also be a plus.

    Any sort of serious DRM will turn people off for low cost products, but some sort of protection (serial number tied to user name?) will be necessary if you offer a free trial.

    1. Re:Give value for money by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Having a free trial period with limited time or limited features would probably help to ensure people can feel good about spending their money.

      This, for me at least, would be key to even trying the program. I'm not going to buy software that I don't know will even work for me. There is so much out there! Good chance there's a free alternative.

      App stores same. On the Google Play store I've never even looked at the Paid category. Yet I have paid apps: tried the free version, liked it very much, bought the "ad-free" version (not that it matters much to me: most of the time no data connection so no ads; I don't have a mobile data account, and only ever accidentally clicked on ads).

      About to release a little Android app of my own. Ad supported, don't really expect anything from that part (AdMob doesn't show anythin on how much money you can expect for people clicking an ad), will have an ad-free paid version too. Same function, just without the ads.

  33. Don't try to deter piracy by Kethinov · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Trying to deter piracy with DRM is a losing battle. If people don't want to pay you, they won't pay. The trick is to get them to want to pay you.

    The first step is to learn the art of asking: http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking.html

    Ask for money, don't demand it. Let them pay you whatever they think is reasonable, but communicate how much you want ($5 in this case) as a default.

    And for all those freeloaders who decide not to pay you, and there will be plenty, show them some ads to recoup the cost. Better they see your ads than piratebay's.

    --
    You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
    1. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by zidium · · Score: 0

      This is why android os-wide adblockers are a *Very Bad Thing*.

      --
      Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
    2. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That might have been true before advertisers put themselves on the same operating level as malware.

      Might have been, but I doubt it.

    3. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amanda Palmer - who expected her backing musicians to be enough of a fan to play for nothing but the honor of being on the same stage as her.

    4. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      once the script hits the users' hardware, the developer doesn't get to decide what happens. Sorry.

    5. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      Ever hear of GMUD? Used the same idea.

      The guy had less than a dozen paying customers.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    6. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, it's why Android ads are a very bad thing. Fuck off.

    7. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Kethinov · · Score: 2

      Your fallacy is: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

      You can cite anecdotes in which the model I've proposed has failed and I can cite anecdotes in which the model I've proposed has succeeded (such as Amanda Palmer), but neither set of anecdotes are terribly relevant.

      What's relevant is piracy cannot be stopped. So trying to stop it is simply a waste of time. If you assume that premise, then it logically follows that all you can do is ask for money, not demand it. To draw any other conclusion is simply delusional.

      --
      You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
    8. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by lurker1997 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It bothers me a bit to see you propose the idea of asking people to pay what is reasonable, and then calling them freeloaders if they don't pay. Maybe it actually wasn't worth anything to them. In the case of the submitter, the application was something to do with graphic design. It's easy to imagine someone downloading a copy of this program if it were offered "by donation", playing with it for a bit, and abandoning it never having used it for any real commercial or hobby purpose. It is worth nothing to them, like much of the internet, they had a look at it because it was there.

      If you walk by a street performer and don't pay them, are you a freeloader? What if you look at them for a minute and walk on? I would say no, you might look at them because they were there, but you didn't ask them to come there.

      Asking people to pay what they want is a lot like being a street performer. You are offering something, but essentially appealing to people's sense of charity to try and get paid, rather than providing goods or services in exchange for money. It devalues the work you are doing (necessarily because people can legally get what you are offering for free) and it's hard to see this as a viable business model in most cases

    9. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      I know someone who had a product... it was selling very well. Then someone cracked it--and their business imploded. In part due to piracy they sold off the business before it went completely under.

      Part of the question you have to take into consideration is what kind of industry you're in. If you have a nearly infinite number of customers then it's possible to ask for money and generally trust your users. If you have a very limited number of users who would hypothetically be willing to pay then you often need to charge a lot and keep every potential customer legit as is possible. It's one thing to be like "Hey chip in $5!" and it's quite another to be like "Hey chip in $1,000!"

      Even the Blender foundation only has about $10k a year in credited donations. When you have 4-5 engineers who should be making $80-$100k a year and your customer base is small for a niche product you need DRM imo. If you charge $1,000 plus offer 2 years of updates between updates that means you need 1000 new customers per year. It's possible there are only a few thousand customers in the world.

    10. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Kethinov · · Score: 1

      I agree. Not all free downloaders should be considered freeloaders in the pejorative sense of the term you assumed I meant. I didn't intend to imply that in my original post.

      --
      You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
    11. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Then you will hate Network wide adblockers that I installed at work. If you are on the work network NO adverts get through... Gotta love privoxy coupled with a transparent proxy.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    12. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      You can't stop piracy, but you can make piracy less convenient than paying for it. You can also demand money in return for things other than the software, such as your attention.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    13. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      It devalues the work you are doing [...]

      Really? I value things that I've paid money for (even when I didn't have to) far more than things I haven't paid money for.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    14. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      Amanda Palmer - who expected her backing musicians to be enough of a fan to play for nothing but the honor of being on the same stage as her.

      I'm not a music guy, and I had no idea who Amanda Palmer was. In addition, the whole "art of asking" presentation was pretty horrible. That said, upon looking up the controversy to which you refer...I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

      You make it sound like she expected her backing musicians to play for free, but found nobody. Actually, there were plenty of people who were willing to play for free. Why wouldn't they? You get to hang out with an artist you're a fan of and you get exposure for your local band. It's just that those who wouldn't be willing to play for free were completely outraged that others would, so they sought to make a villain out of her.

      Repeat after me: doing things for no monetary compensation is not fucking evil. Asking people to do things for no monetary compensation is not evil. If compensation is agreed upon, but not given, that is evil.

    15. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Kethinov · · Score: 2

      If can't run your business on anything less than $1000 per user, then you're better off reworking it into an internet service so you can enforceably control access to your software rather than making it a standalone downloadable software package.

      Huge upfront prices are rarely a good way to run a business unless you're selling a large tangible asset like a TV, or a car, or a house. Software just isn't one of those kinds of things.

      But you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. If you offer it as a service instead and charge smaller amounts of cash over time (perhaps with discounts for upfront sums) then you're way more likely to get people to think it's a fair deal.

      Otherwise, your software will fall into the trap of people wondering why the hell anyone would pay $1000 for something they could just as easily download from piratebay. You discourage that bias by offering less eye-popping pricing plans.

      --
      You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
    16. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      Let them pay you whatever they think is reasonable

      Sounds like the Humble Bundle. And I agree, quit worrying about piracy.

      The submitter could try to get the game into a Humble Bundle. May not be good enough for that, but it's a possibility.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    17. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It bothers me a bit to see you propose the idea of asking people to pay what is reasonable, and then calling them freeloaders if they don't pay. Maybe it actually wasn't worth anything to them. In the case of the submitter, the application was something to do with graphic design. It's easy to imagine someone downloading a copy of this program if it were offered "by donation", playing with it for a bit, and abandoning it never having used it for any real commercial or hobby purpose. It is worth nothing to them, like much of the internet, they had a look at it because it was there.

      If you walk by a street performer and don't pay them, are you a freeloader? What if you look at them for a minute and walk on? I would say no, you might look at them because they were there, but you didn't ask them to come there.

      Asking people to pay what they want is a lot like being a street performer. You are offering something, but essentially appealing to people's sense of charity to try and get paid, rather than providing goods or services in exchange for money. It devalues the work you are doing (necessarily because people can legally get what you are offering for free) and it's hard to see this as a viable business model in most cases

      Freeloaders are freeloaders if they download the software with no intention of paying, consuming some of the site's bandwidth, or if they use the software and don't pay, not if they simply don't pay. If someone walks up to a street performer and stands there in the front row with no intention of paying, blocking other people's view and preventing someone from standing where they are who does have an intention of tossing a bill into the guitar case, then yes, they are a scum-sucking freeloader and I'd prefer it if they got kicked out of society and died alone under a bridge - and that's from someone who is neither the performer nor someone in the audience. If they're just passing by and happen to hear a riff or two, then no, they're not freeloading. It's just common sense, not pedantic rocket science.

    18. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      It's just common sense, not pedantic rocket science.

      What is? That freeloaders are 'scum-suckers'? Labeling something as "common sense" does not make it a common belief nor does it make it true. After all, I certainly don't agree that 'freeloading' is always wrong.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    19. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's easy to imagine someone downloading a copy of this program if it were offered "by donation", playing with it for a bit, and abandoning it never having used it for any real commercial or hobby purpose. It is worth nothing to them, like much of the internet, they had a look at it because it was there.

      Subsonic, a music streaming server, actually operates on this model. It was quite a nice model. You could install the server (locally) for free, and stream music using the web-based player. If you wanted video support, dynamic DNS, or streaming to mobile clients without flash, you had to donate to the author and in return you received a key to unlock said features. Before Grooveshark, et al, existed, I did this and it was a fine way to listen to your music library anywhere you had an internet connection. The Android app wasn't great, it had some bugs, but it worked and it was free.

      Then the author changed the sales model. He changed the Android app to an ad-supported one with the option to buy the ad-free version, with absolutely no extra features than being ad-free, for $5. No new features. There's a community project to HTML5 the server-side end, but the original author has shown *zero* interest in integrating it, and his updates (which are annoyingly infrequent) don't include any new or innovative features. I've watched Subsonic go from being ahead of its time to woefully behind its time.

      If you're reading, Sindre, this is a textbook case of how you lose a customer.

    20. Re:Don't try to deter piracy by gregor-e · · Score: 1

      Reciprocity: There are some important distinctions to be made between the service that Amanda Palmer is offering and what OP is offering. Amanda is in the entertainment business. Her product moves people. She delivers coin of the spirit. So when she is reaching out, her fans have already been moved and uplifted by Amanda. They have a motivation to reciprocate, and being able to give money or a neti pot or a couch to sleep on allows them to fulfill that need. OP, on the other hand, is providing a tool for graphic designers. Not a lot of emotional bonding potential there. The most OP can hope for is a feeling in their users of having found a useful tool. Simple graphic tools are pretty fungible, and chances are, someone else offers a tool with similar utility. So to get the kind of engagement with users that would produce the kind of reciprocity that Amanda achieves, OP would have to somehow make their download be more than just a graphic utility. If OP cultivated a social presence in which their download was seen as part of a foundation that supports the wonderful and somewhat legendary person that OP surely is, then OP might have a shot at achieving the reciprocity that Amanda has.

      Patronage: Some consumers have matured enough to view the market as a sort of garden in which their money is nourishment that determines which things grow and which things wither. These consumers will answer the call for help not so much out of reciprocity, but as a way of cultivating the good stuff in the garden. This desire to cultivate is a need that OP's graphic utility can tap into, since it is driven by a desire to make the world a better place. Unlike Amanda's main focus on reciprocity, patronage can be a more universal and consistent force for funding. The trick is finding and providing your service/product to these patrons and, ideally, triggering their desire to patronize.

  34. Make people want to pay for your product, by aussersterne · · Score: 2

    then ask them to do it.

    Many will, if it's valuable to them. Those that won't likely wouldn't have done so anyway.

    There was a recent TED talk, "The Art of Asking," that made an argument along similar lines, though it was more concerned with digital music.

    I pay for stuff I like if I feel that the price is fair. Most others are the same way.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re:Make people want to pay for your product, by geekoid · · Score: 1

      But most poeple are a horrible gauge of what is fair.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Make people want to pay for your product, by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      I pay for stuff I like if I feel that the price is fair. Most others are the same way.

      first, that's what people tell themselves to justify not paying, and you are right, most everyone is the same as you in the regard. second, obviously the word "fair" is subjective the statement that everyone should do what they think is fair is meaningless.

      third, who are you to decide what is fair? you didn't write the app, and have no idea how much time, effort, and resources went into the development. if it took me 3 man years of development, and i had to pay to license some technology, and i decide it needs to cost $30 for me to recoup my losses and make a small profit, who are you to tell me different?

    3. Re:Make people want to pay for your product, by B1oodAnge1 · · Score: 1

      third, who are you to decide what is fair? you didn't write the app, and have no idea how much time, effort, and resources went into the development. if it took me 3 man years of development, and i had to pay to license some technology, and i decide it needs to cost $30 for me to recoup my losses and make a small profit, who are you to tell me different?

      I am the only one with access to the necessary data to decide what value I attain from the use of the software.
      It doesn't matter how much it cost you to provide, if you can't provide it at a price that matches the value it gives to me then it costs too much.

      In your example, if you need to charge $30 to make money and I don't get $30 of value from the use of your software, then you're the one that fucked up, not me.

      --
      RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
    4. Re:Make people want to pay for your product, by brentrad · · Score: 1

      who are you to decide what is fair? you didn't write the app, and have no idea how much time, effort, and resources went into the development. if it took me 3 man years of development, and i had to pay to license some technology, and i decide it needs to cost $30 for me to recoup my losses and make a small profit, who are you to tell me different?

      Who am I to decide what is fair? I am the customer - really the only important person in determining if a price is fair. If you have to price your app at a price point to recoup your costs that the potential customer feels is not fair, then your potential customer is not going to buy your app. If you don't lower your price to a point that enough people feel is fair, then you're not going to make any sales. And you have a much greater risk of people pirating your app.

      This is the way that the free market works, has always worked, and is supposed to work. You have no guarantee that all the work you put into development are going to be recouped, it's a risk any entrepreneur takes. But don't go thinking that your potential customers owe you for your hard work. I couldn't care less about all the development time you took to develop your app - all I care about is whether I feel it is a fair price for what I get.

      If you're not OK with this state of affairs, I'm sure there are hundreds of other app developers that would be happy to sell me their app instead - and at a "fair" price.

    5. Re:Make people want to pay for your product, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's the customer. What your customers think is fair is the correct price, whether you like it or not. If it's not enough to recoup your costs, then you either spent too much to make it or you have an undesirable product. There is no inherent right to profit.

    6. Re:Make people want to pay for your product, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who are you to tell me different[ly]?

      I'm the guy deciding to pay the money or not. As it's my money, it's fair for me to decide if you get it (and if not, you can keep your software).

    7. Re:Make people want to pay for your product, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. The full trial with a "preview" badge which asks you to buy at a critical juncture... but gives you the option to skip. Make that ask a good sales pitch. Put some thought and development time into it.

      For a graphics tool, I want to USE it before I think about putting down cash. If it's part of a real workflow, I'll pony up some coin. Most of the time, it's not my money anyway, and a "trial" badge, promenently displayed but otherwise fully functional isn't going to get removed by anyone. Not worth the effort.

  35. Don't be hostile to people by michael_rendier · · Score: 1

    as long as the bottom line matters more to the company than the people, you're not going to get an argument focused on keeping customers, rather litigating additional revenue. treat your potential customers better, you'll generate repeat business and customer base to comfortably provide for everyone, everything AND the bottom line. You loose your customer base to a certain point, and then you have to resort to the new 'fee schedules', 'litigation revenue' etc. which will only serve to push more people away.

    --
    There are three kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't.
  36. F/OSS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give the software for free and charge for support. It's a proven model that allows plenty of folks to make a living.

    1. Re:F/OSS by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2

      Give the software for free and charge for support. It's a proven model that allows plenty of folks to make a living.

      Not everything needs 'paid' support. A $5 application for graphic designers should be easy enough to use without having to pay to ask questions.
      A full server OS with a large support team, yes. A small graphic app? No.

    2. Re:F/OSS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That assumes the software is more than a part time project.

    3. Re:F/OSS by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Hahhah, good one!

      On the other hand, I think the Leisure Suit Larry 1 hint book sold more than the game itself...

  37. Price accordingly by Kimomaru · · Score: 1

    A lot of games released on consoles today are priced 60 dollars on day one, deritive titles with stale formulas - the kinds that force publishers to shut down. Often these games find a second life during a Steam sale. Figure out what your pruduct should cost after seeing people's reaction to it. If people think it's a fair price, they'll be much less likely to bother prirating and just just click the paypal button instead.

  38. Provide something people will pay for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your having problems with people paying then you screwed up trying to charge for something people don't want to pay for. If you make something worthwhile that people will use then you should expect to see people pay you because you did a good job.

  39. 5$-10$ for how many bytes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do whatever you want, there is no threshold for what is 'reasonable' once you're already committed to using a per-copy business model. The labor you would put into development is what has value, copying information is virtually free but that is what you're associating with a cost. There might still be plenty of people willing to give you 5 or 10 bucks to copy information but no matter what you do the people who feel bitter about it will pirate or ignore your implementation.

  40. Online Kill Switch by Tom+Rothamel · · Score: 1

    An idea I had was to try to figure out a way to make pirating difficult enough that people would prefer to purchase the real version. I'd also like a way to do this that doesn't overly inconvenience legit users - and allows them to continue using the program even if the entity that created it in the first place went out of business. Note that I haven't actually tried this method in practice - it's at the idea stage right now.

    The idea is that each download comes with some sort of keyfile that lets it run. When started, it contacts the server and asks for permission to run. If the server denys permission, the program deletes the keyfile, and refuses to run in the future. If it can't contact the server due to network problems, it waits several minutes and then runs. Otherwise, it runs normally.

    The developer would then monitor places that may host pirated versions of the software. When he or she sees a pirated key, he adds it to a server-based block list. This causes the top of the google rankings to fill with broken versions of the software - making it increasingly more difficult to find an illegitimate copy - and hopefully pushing people to buy the legit version.

    On the other hand, if the creator of the software stops monitoring for pirated copies, then those copies continue to work. This is, I think, a good property - it allows the software to become abandonware once the creator is no longer interested in making money from it. What's more, this method gives legitimate users the ability to run the software they paid for indefinitely.

    1. Re:Online Kill Switch by turkeyfeathers · · Score: 0

      If the server denys permission, the program deletes the keyfile, and refuses to run in the future.

      A better approach would be to delete random files from the user's computer.

    2. Re:Online Kill Switch by ultranova · · Score: 1

      A better approach would be to delete random files from the user's computer.

      It is a good way to ensure no one will touch your programs with a ten-foot pole once word gets out, and also get sued by any user bit by false positives.

      Vigilantism is usually a bad idea.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    3. Re:Online Kill Switch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any form of online checks mean I won't use the software.

      I want to buy bluesoleil because it is so much better than either the toshiba or microsoft bluetooth stacks but the DRM is terrible and it causes a right mess to the computer.

    4. Re:Online Kill Switch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Judges LOVE to fine people like you millions of dollars in damages, after I hand you a load of money and your program deletes half my hard drive due to your shitty programming abilities.

      If your goal is to get sued out of business, then sure you have some good advice there.
      Otherwise, wtf are you smoking?!?

    5. Re:Online Kill Switch by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      This is unenforceable without total TPM lockdown. Any sort of hidden file scheme can be overridden and this override easily automated.

    6. Re:Online Kill Switch by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      That is a good approach.. to get yourself a lawsuit if/when a legit user's machine fails a check, loses data, and finds out that it was your program. Hostile code like this does not belong in ANY application. hell, there are enough laws that might be bent into defending even a pirate from such obnoxious code.

    7. Re:Online Kill Switch by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      Either you're kidding, or you're serious, in which case if you're serious I'd ask if you're stupid. Think about it.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
  41. Make it incredibly easy to receive payment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honestly, in the $5-$10 range, it is probably more hassle to implement any anti-piracy scheme than what it's worth. If you have a product that is worth $10, people are probably more than willing to pay such a small amount just to avoid potential viruses.

    But several companies shoot themselves in the foot by making it incredibly difficult to take the damn money.

    Any pirates weren't going to pay anyway.

  42. There's not by blarkon · · Score: 0

    Piracy is socially normalized. It didn't matter when a small number of people did it back in the 90's, but since then we've had a generation who have grown up without there being any consequences for "not paying". Google "Piracy Rate 1 dollar Android Apps" to see that even when people have a simple easy way to pay a small amount, they'll go out of their way to acquire the software for free.

    1. Re:There's not by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      ..or maybe it's because false scarcity is not sustainable..

  43. Don't under estimate shaming by geekoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I worked on a tool to be used by consultants. These people have very sticky fingers. Are issue was how to we prevent consultants taking the software to another firm?

    We compiled a build for each customer with there logo inserted into various places. So when you run a report, no matter what there user entered, the embedded logo would appear on the reports.
    Going to another accounting firm, and then generating reports for your boss with your previous companies logo on it tend to get you frowned upon.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Don't under estimate shaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We compiled that their logo into there build they're.

    2. Re:Don't under estimate shaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I liked "Are issue was..."

      I've never heard "are" for "our" before. Very nice!

    3. Re:Don't under estimate shaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and did you get permission first to use and distribute copies of their logos and trademarks?

    4. Re:Don't under estimate shaming by gsslay · · Score: 1

      Arrrg! Must. Not. Be. Grammar. Nazi. Too. Many. Errors. To. Know. Where. To. Start.

    5. Re:Don't under estimate shaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, "Are issue"?!? Please graduate elementary school before posting on the internet.

  44. Market Study by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2

    Honestly, the best thing to do is look at your business plan and determine the best price - the one that yields the maximum sales for you in the market you are trying to target and the minimum piracy that you are comfortable with. Just realize that piracy will be non-zero as people who want to pirate will no matter what you do - no matter how much or how little you charge. So find the price point that maximizes your potential in the market you are aiming to sell into and don't worry about the rest.

    Unfortunately, you need to do a market study to determine that price - so as always you have to spend money to make (more) money. You may be surprised that what you thought was only a $5-$10 app may be a $50 app; OTOH, it could turn out to be a $1 app too.

    --
    Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  45. Things to remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are a lot of different options available but I think it is important to keep these things in mind.

    1) You can't stop people from pirating it. It can't be done for the same reason DRM can never be fool proof. You can't give them access to use the program but still prevent them from being able to use it.

    2) What ever scheme you pick make sure it as easy and painless as possible for your customers. These are the people actually paying you money and you want to keep them happy so they will hopefully keep paying money in the future.

    3) Don't try to be sneaky and punish pirates in some subtle way, like corrupting their images. You aren't perfect and you will somehow end up doing this to your paying customer which is BAD.

    For a small inexpensive utility even a one time online activation seems like overkill. Remember this requires you to run and maintain online infrastructure for you legitimate users for as long as the utility is useful. Even a simple process means a long commitment and this too can be hacked. I'd suggest a basic serial number with the program automatically checking it possibly with some access to updates assuming there is some reason for them to want updates.

  46. Old school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Force users at random to look up various facts found only in your manual. Like how many hitpoints the color purple has.

  47. Hardware key by turkeyfeathers · · Score: 0

    The best solution is a hardware key (or dongle) that plugs into the user's computer. The dongle should maintain an always-on communication check with your server. In the event that the program detects a missing dongle it should delete some random files from the pirate's hard disk.

  48. Don't worry about it by proca · · Score: 1

    A $5-10 dollar utility will probably not get widely pirated to be worth the headache for paying customers. That being said, a one-time online activation seems reasonable to me. That's what I've used at my company, but our software costs a lot more than $10

  49. Make it easier to buy by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The answer is to make it easier to buy your product then it is to pirate it.

    Price it right, make sure ANYONE can download it (in other words, make sure you have a way of getting money from someone in the US and UK just as easily as you've got a way from a guy in China or India to download your game) and make it easy to find where you can buy it.

    If someone really wants to pirate your software, they will. But make sure that the pirated version isn't a superior version to what you offer.

    But above all else, you want users, its a whole lot better to be known for a game that everyone's heard of and played and 75% of the people didn't buy then it is to be the creator of a game that no one's heard of and played but the few users who did play the game bought it.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Make it easier to buy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I keep reading "game" in the replies for this post, which starts by stating the software is a graphics utility. Are slashdotters so game-centric that all apps are games or not apps at all?

    2. Re:Make it easier to buy by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      This is exactly the advice I was going to give. The $5-$10 price point already sounds pretty reasonable, so, as you mentioned, the other thing this guy needs is to make sure it's easy to buy. Paypal is good, for instance, because a lot of people have a Paypal account already. When I start having to create an account on some fly-by-night third party shopping cart website, it's a big disincentive to complete the purchase.

  50. When people go to pay ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Make sure you have a working link to the payment page. I actually went to buy WinRar because I thought "hey this is so much better than winzip and i want this dev to get money to keep doing this work" ... payment page 404'd everyday for like a week. I just didn't even try anymore...

  51. Avoiding the Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since you're an actual developer willing to talk about piracy, I'd like to ask you a couple questions. I feel like I'm living in an echo chamber. Consumers want no DRM and so bloggers and posters rehash this bias over and over again. What is your objection to piracy? Is it emotional? Do you not like the idea of someone using your work for free? Or rather do you think of it more rationally, in terms of sales potential? Is it worth it to you for a user to lose a serial key and have to contact you to use their legitimate software? Do you personally believe that in some cases piracy can increase sales? And why wouldn't it increase sales with your product?

    I'm honestly curious. Personally I think any DRM implementation is an unnecessary bother for both ends, but I'd like to know if you have a fresh perspective on it.

  52. and if you die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    with activation your software dies with you, not really fair on your customers

    just use a serial number and a really easy way to pay

  53. Exclusive Additional Benefit Offer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Something of value that you do not have to 'give' to pirates..but this requires registration and some kind of serialized key... support to registered owners..new features with a serialized number check....free as crippleware...pay for full utility.

  54. Personalized binaries by bugnuts · · Score: 1

    Basically, people don't like to let others copy their software when the splash screen says "Thank you for your purchase, <customer>!".

    Checksum the name so that someone editing the binary will be met with a crippled or nagware version, telling them how to get a fully functional one.

    In any case, don't sweat it much. If someone is intent on stealing it, nothing you can do will prevent that. But accountability will prevent casual piracy because the mostly-honest person will not think it's harmless when someone asks for a copy.

    1. Re:Personalized binaries by gsslay · · Score: 1

      And if they register their software under the name "Customer"?

  55. So exactly how rich do you need to be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Practically every bit of commercial software ever sold has been cracked / pirated. If your software is any good and you charge $10 a copy then I honestly hope you have millions of copies pirated while only managing to sell 100,000 copies :-)

  56. In App Purchasing by alen · · Score: 1

    Apple proved the business model and android is supporting it as well now

    release an app with base features for free and charge for add on features

  57. Serial Number Alone by JenovaSynthesis · · Score: 1

    I say this because your price point alone makes it very attractive to simply purchase the thing. I would just leave it at a serial number that maybe phones home for validation on install. Copy protection inevitably only hinders legitimate users.

    I am curious though as to what your program is and what it does as I am a graphic designer myself as well as faculty attached to the graphic design program at the local college and I am always looking for new/cool stuff both for myself and to share with students.

    --
    Anonymous Cowards generally receive no replies because you're a coward and I'm a bitch :)
  58. Read This by rudy_wayne · · Score: 3, Informative

    Read this. Memorize it. It tells you everything you need to know as a developer:

    http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/45684087997/apathy-and-refunds-are-more-dangerous-than-piracy

    1. Re:Read This by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Funny

      Read this. Memorize it.

      I did, but now I've forgotten C++. Thanks a bunch!

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    2. Re:Read This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again, this hardly applies to developers as a group. Products with different pricing models, consumer groups, and content provision (i.e. client-run apps vs server-run) are going to have significantly different piracy rates.

      In one of the most pirated industries, audio production software, you have a niche market with low sales volume, thus high license costs; a fully standalone client-run product (it has to be for realtime processing), and a market of hobbyists who are under no scrutiny to use legitimate software. In that industry, sophisticated copy protection is a must, and unlike what most believe, sometimes these protections are effective and not cracked for years.

    3. Re:Read This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read this. Memorize it.

      now I've forgotten C++

      No great loss.

    4. Re:Read This by archshade · · Score: 1

      I did, but now I've forgotten C++. Thanks a bunch!

      And nothing of value was lost ;-)

      --
      Most Damage is done by people who are AWAKE
  59. Piracy can strengthen the brand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I started and worked on a very successful iOS game with over 9,000,000 users (and now over 1m on Android).. In the earlier days, we saw that it's piracy was 3 to 1 (so there were at the time about 3m users per 1m paid).

    We don't care. Every user who doesn't pay but enjoys the game spreads word about the game, which will work well for the sequel or for branded toys. Those who don't pay for it probably weren't going to, at least they've now heard of your brand and your game. Free marketing.

    1. Re:Piracy can strengthen the brand by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

      Exactly this.
      Case in point: Photoshop.

      Instead of thinking about the pirates (negatively) think about the users and number of users you want (positively). The pirates drive more users to you.

      A software that isn't pirated doesn't sound very successful qua software.

  60. Price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good low prices.

  61. Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Run it on your own servers.

  62. Quality, price, experience, demo. by skine · · Score: 2

    1) Make a game that's worth buying.
    2) Sell it at a price that people are willing to pay.
    3) Don't make piracy a better experience than buying the real thing.
    4) Give your customers a legitimate way to try the game for free.

    Sure, there are and always will be people who pirate games just because they can. There really isn't a way to stop this.

    The vast majority who do pirate usually fall into one of these categories, though.

    For me, the only reason I've pirated since graduating HS is #3, and even then I have only used pirated versions of games I own, or for games that I legitimately can't find (especially Dreamcast games).

    1. Re:Quality, price, experience, demo. by LMariachi · · Score: 2

      The scenario is a little different for games. Professionals don’t sweat the cost of the tools they use to do their jobs, within reason, as they’re either tax writeoffs or billable to a client. Adobe can charge $1300-2600 for individual copies of CS6 because a single freelance gig will more than cover that (unless you’re doing flyers for a local band or something.) $5-10 for a useful tool is nothing. Whereas very few people have the type of job that would allow them to deduct video game purchases from their taxable income or have them purchased by their employer, and even fewer make money directly from playing them.

    2. Re:Quality, price, experience, demo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The OP asked about a utility, not a game. showing how much attention you devoted to his question would make him color your answer.

  63. It's all in the name by Ynot_82 · · Score: 1

    Seriously. Call the program
    "screener-720p"

  64. Really tough -- by sillivalley · · Score: 1

    Your first challenge is fitting "reasonable" and "piracy" into the same mental model...

    Maritime nations through history have sought to deter piracy by displaying the miscreant's remains at harbor entrances.

    Think of that as a way to show increased risk.

    But software piracy? What's the risk? If you look at eliminating the gain from piracy, then you need to ask, what's the "gain?" To some, the gain is saving a few bucks. Pricing your software low works to eliminate that gain. Or providing support and/or upgrades to legitimate users. But to some, the "gain" in piracy is playing the game, and that gets back to a rational relationship between your goals and a pirate's: there may not be one. Someone engaging in piracy as a way to get their rocks off isn't likely to be motivated by pricing, support, upgrades, or much of anything else, even the lack of a technological challenge.

    Is piracy something you can more or less ignore in your target market?

    But "fighting" piracy? Old adage: never wrestle with a pig; you'll get filthy and the pig will love it.

  65. Simple but pragmatic by Wolfling1 · · Score: 1

    First thing to acknowledge is that piracy will happen, and it is not in your interests to spend a million dollars to save a few (eliminating the last 1% of the pirates). Accept that a certain amount of piracy is 'unstoppable', and you can implement a far more pragmatic scheme.

    Ours is simple. We distribute our software as v1.0 (regardless of the build). Inside code, we apply a countdown timer that will crash the application after 50 starts. We make it a kind of 'nagware', but a fairly mild one. We don't use those annoying 5 second delays before you can click OK or any of that crap.

    The countdown timer can be cancelled when someone patches to any version that doesn't have a '.0' on the end. However, to upgrade, they have to register (which is a semi-automated process). It costs us about 5 seconds to approve someone's registration.

    Once again, remember that this is easily hackable. Anyone with an ounce of IT skills could reset the timer, have the version identifier in the exe, etc, etc - but the point is that 98% of people wont, and 1% of people will try unsuccessfully. Every once in a while we discover someone who has pirated the software, and we send them a dirty letter, and most of them true-up at that point too.

    Stay pragmatic, and don't let it annoy you. Good luck!

  66. Walled garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hate to say it, put it up on either Apple's or Microsoft's walled garden, per appropriate OS. If it's *unix... open source it.

  67. As always by eliuker · · Score: 1

    Like every other business, set a fair price for your product. If you don't know what that value should be, take a look at what similar software sells for. You may think that 5 to 10 dollars is fair (it may be completely fair) but if similar software can be had for a dollar or even free, you're going down a dead end.

    Then, don't worry about the pirates. Piracy is a function of the popularity of a product, where the popular software and media gets pirated more often. Take pride if your product gets copied 100 million times because you have made a great piece of software.

    Remember, freeloaders will always seek to pirate software but honest people will remain honest if you give them a reasonable way to purchase and use your product. You don't need DRM or license servers to keep honest people honest. Make it easy to buy your software and give good support to your paying customers. Listen to their complaints by fixing bugs and providing frequently requested features in new versions.

  68. Don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Invest the time that you're thinking of spending on trying to defer piracy in marketing or improving your product.

    People who were going to pirate were going to pirate regardless of the deterrent.

  69. Encrypted binaries are your best bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The downside is that no one will be able to run it at all, so you may wind up with a lot of people asking for refunds. However, a few people will be too ashamed to ask for a refund, and you can keep their money.

  70. Embrace Piracy by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

    Embrace the Pirates, for they may be your salvation.

    Release two versions, paid and pirate. Call them that, and have fun with it (pirate skin). Give them a reason to "buy" it, something emotional, tied to being a pirate (enhanced pirate skin, which they will pirate too). Tell the pirates you don't want their money, you want a Starbucks Gift Card (or whatever). Tell the Pirates you want them to tell their friends that you embrace their actions, as a means of publicity.

    IF you product, service or whatever is good, then publicity is your friend. Then ask them to pay for it when they use it, just don't nag. Perhaps a reminder every month (30 days) of "hey, you like this app, please consider buying the Pirate version with the all new pirate skin".

    If you fight the pirates, they will route around any attempt to block them. It is a fool's game of whack-a-mole.

    And for those people that pirate apps, do you really think you're all that clever for going to Google and typing "Pirate Bag Android Apps". I really hope you all find hacked versions that steal your identity and money. Pay the damn $1.99 already.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  71. shit is shit, good is good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    upload it, no drm, no-set price, allow people to choose whatever they wish to pay..
    if it's shit it's shit, if it's good it's good... (don't blame piracy.)

    1. Re:shit is shit, good is good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

  72. firstly ask yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you think that people who would pirate instead of paying are your customers? If the answer is no than there's no need for protection.

    1. Re:firstly ask yourself by mark-t · · Score: 1

      That's not the reason to not want one's work pirated.

      The reason a copyright holder should have reasonable objection to somebody pirating their work, whether or not they were ever going to pay for it, is because it encroaches on the copying rights that are supposed to be exclusively at the purview of the content maker.

      Revenue is completely irrelevant to this point. When somebody pirates a work, the value that the content maker might have otherwise had in their exclusivity (which is what copyright itself is supposed to entail) is compromised, and there does exist at least some merit in the notion that they ought to be financially compensated for that loss of control.

      But the matter with regards to content publication has always been about distributive control. As copying technologies have advanced through the ages, however, the mere social contract of copyright since its inception, which essentially amounts to the notion that society will honor the content maker's desire for exclusive control over copies in exchange for access to the work, has been breaking down. Society began to stop respecting their side of the contract, and ignored the content maker's desire for exclusive rights on determining who should be permitted to make copies. Publishers, in response, began artificially contriving schemes which made their works arguably marginally more difficult to copy, but would have an unforseeable impact on the work's availability, as legitimate consumers may find they cannot utilize the works as they intended because of copy protection being in the way.

      Copyright is dissolving... which is unfortunate, because at least it was a contract that society had some control over. What is replacing it now, however... is something which consumers will have no control over... DRM and other types of censorship that keep consumers from accessing the content.

  73. Pay-what-you-want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use a pay-what-you-want model (with possible incentive for people who pay above certain amounts, like in kickstarter).

    People who want it for free will be able to get it for free without pirating it (and risking spreading viruses, think of it as preventive vaccination), people who like it and find it useful will probably pay more for it than you would have asked for in the first place, if it's good enough.

    Almost zero piracy (*some* people will still pirate it, even if they can get it for free), no hassles for paying customers, and everyone is happy.

  74. Cracks by pavon · · Score: 1

    If your software is at all popular, people will remove your phone home check, and distribute this cracked version of the software instead. Furthermore, if you have any sort of bug in your phone-home software (say date comparison that starts failing in the future due to incorrect leap year handling), then you open the possibility of your legitimate customers being harmed even though you didn't mean to.

    IMHO, the best approach is to have no DRM at all, but to seed all the major torrent sites with legal shareware versions of your software that include infrequent and unobtrusive requests to upgrade to the full version if you like what you see. Some people will still pirate the full edition, but you'll up-sell to a few of the downloaders, which is more than you would have gotten otherwise.

    1. Re:Cracks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also legit users need to have internet connection, while pirated copy works happily with bad network or offline. This means pirate version is functionally better than your legit version. It's also cheaper, so you lose on two fronts instead of just one.

  75. Send copy to bloggers for press. What are pirates? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm an indie developer about to release a small ($5 — $10 range) utility for graphic designers. I'd like to employ at least a basic deterrent to pirates,

    Then you will surely die a thousands deaths in obscurity.

    Pirates are Free Advertizing you idiot.

    Think about it. You send a free evaluation copy of your game / tool / app, to bloggers/journalists to get the word out....

    FUCK! Never mind, I can't complete this post you're too fucking stupid to understand it.

  76. time limited trial. by nblender · · Score: 1

    I'm ok with the time-limited trial; say 30 days. I download the odd piece of time-limited trialware to solve a one-off problem and then if it looks like I'm going to need it more, I'll buy it. Or if I'm using the product to make money (like my billing/invoicing software) then I'll try it out and buy it if it will do everything I want. I can get activation codes for my billing software but it's adding value to my business so I don't mind spending $40 on it.

    But don't artificially restrict what the software can do. Make it fully functional until a certain day... Sure, people will keep reinstalling new eval versions but if they want to do that once a month, it's up to them...

  77. I suppose... by Takatata · · Score: 1

    if you invest as much thought on how to improve your program than you do now to prevent piracy, you would gain at least as many paying additional users as you now lose through piracy.

  78. Simple by kenp2002 · · Score: 1

    A word many forgot. Value. If there is value in buying a game or service then people will buy it. I didn't buy Batman A.C. until it was $10 bucks. Why? That's what it is worth to me. $60? No game is worth that to me. There isn't any value in it. It's that simple. I played Eve Online and paid $15 a month for it, it was worth it because the service they provided (uptime, patches, content, etc.) was worth it. It had value.

    "Why pay for it when you can copy it?" Because it isn't worth my time. I go to Steam, see if there is a deal for something $10 and if there is I buy it. IT's not worth my time running around digging through spyware infested Torrent sites to sit around for 6 hours while I try to download it only to find the last 5% of it is only being seeded by 2 peers. I get patches, content, dlc, multiplayer, etc through steam and what is even better, I don't have to do a damn thing beyond click Install and maybe, maybe once in a while fill in some info.

    Gates was right, the future is Software as a Service because people don't want to pay for software but they will pay for service. Much like people eating at a Denny's\Embers: you aren't there for the food. Everything there you could make yourself (copy). Rather, you are there for the service. You want someone else to cook it and hopefully someone competent and cute to bring you said food.

    --
    -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
  79. don't code it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to prevent piracy don't code it.. All the suggested means are hackable

  80. So the goal is to get them to participate by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    in a transaction that they don't believe to be fair?

    That's a losing proposition for any business. Like it or not, DRM or no, a business is ultimately at the mercy of its customers and what they believe to be fair—right or wrong, however that is measured.

    Unless there's a plan to wrestle a monopoly on an absolutely necessary-for-life good out of a $5-10 app...

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  81. Climate Change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I saw a graph on the internet one time showing the correlation between piracy and global temperatures. I guess you want to alter global temperatures?

  82. I'm a game designer, and: WRONG BASE ASSUMPTIONS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does a plumber not have a problem with "piracy"? Why does Beardyman not have a "problem"? Why do (actually) online games not have a "problem"? Why do Wayside Creations not have a "problem"?

    Because they are selling a *service*. The service of programing/designing something. Something that actually takes work to make, and hence is *actually* worth money.

    Why does the Content Mafia have a "problem"? Why do you have a "problem"?

    Because you are trying to "sell" us mere *copies* of said work. Which themselves took *no* work to make. (Only the original service did.)
    By that logic, we could just as well "pay" you with mere copies of our money that took hard work to make.

    There is no problem. There is no "piracy". There is sharing of worthless copies. The problem is your mindset.
    You're expecting us to pay real money, while you sit on your fat ass and do nothing, just because you failed to design a proper business model. Even though pretty much *every* job in the world has a proper service model (work for money).

    The model you are used to stems from physical objects and energy, which cannot copied other than to re-do the work it took to create them. Hence they can be used to store a series of works applied to some natural resources. You cannot copy a car. You have to build it again, every time.
    But for information, that doesn't work, since copying is free. So it it available in infinite abundance. And any attempt to stop that ("deter 'piracy'") then is just the creation of artificial scarcity. Which is a crime by the way. You can go to jail for it.
    And on top of that, you cannot control distribution anyway, unless you plan to put a TCPA chip in every data processing device on the planet. Including brains. So you cannot actually prevent the abundance anyway. You can only make people fall for delusions. (E.g. DRM, or calling file-sharers "criminals".)
    But that doesn't work anymore.

    So why do you cling to that old impossible and idiotic business model anyway?
    The Content Mafia does it, because with it, they can rip off people. They only (let others) do the work once. (E.g. by paying the programmers and designers only once in the form of monthly paychecks while being on that project.) But they want to get money for it *until the end of all time*. Without doing *any* work. (Uploading it to a website [like iTunes] once doesn't count.)

    So the question becomes: If you yourself aren't such a criminal who wants to rip us all off... (and I will assume you aren't) ... then what stops you from just using a proper service business model, and seeing file sharing as *marketing* that raises your popularity.
    Because then, when you got paid for your *service*, you already got paid. You can ask for more donations, but you are not *entitled* to more money. Especially not, when your service/work is not worth much money because e.g. it is shitty.

    Of you can go on, rambling about "OMG TEH EVIL PIRATXORZ, WAAAAHHH!" and go bankrupt from ignorance and stupidity. Your choice.

  83. Obscurity by fwarren · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Piracy is a tax on being popular.

    The less popular you are, the less of a tax it is.

    It costs goodwill, it cost money, and it is for the most part not effective. What is effictive is to find a way to make money even with pircacy out there.

    Read some posts at TechDirt. Find out if freeimum, or posting a comment or a product at thepiratebay or something else would work for your business.

    There was an article about a director who made $60,000 last year on a project and spent $30,000 if it trying to deter piracy. She could have doubled her money by doing nothing. That was a case study. http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1999-12-29/

    --
    vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
    1. Re:Obscurity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Piracy is a tax on being popular.

      So you're saying that when someone pirates a product they take money that you already have away from you?

      I would advise you on reading about the subject of taxation in some dictionay.

    2. Re:Obscurity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://dilbert.com/fast/1999-12-29/
      Dilbert Fast. It's for people use are sensible. Which is obviously not you.

    3. Re:Obscurity by fwarren · · Score: 1

      Your missing the point. Piracy is a tax on "quality" and "popularity". If you have a "product" and you make money by selling it or some service related to it, you rely on the fact that the more people know about it, the more potential customers there are in the pool, the more actual product you will sell. There will be people who are not interesetd. There will be people who are intereseted but your product is not "good eough" for them. There will be people who are not willing to part with their money at the price point you have set. Then there is the final class of people. People that will pirate the prouduct if a way can be found to do so that is significantly cheaper than purchasing the product.

      It is a tax on popularity. 10 people know aobut your product, 0% piracy, 0% profit. 1 million people know about your product, 1% piracy and some profit. 100 million people know about your product 2% piracy and even more profit. Much like a store with zero customers has zero shrinkage. Nothing is ever damaged by store employees or customers, nothing is stolen by store employees or customers. Shrinkage is a tax on doing business and handeling physical product in a retail space. Pircacy is a tax on doing business and handeling digital products.

      98% of musicians have never been heard of by even 100,000 people. Obscurity is hurting their record sales far more than any pircacy would. I am not justifying piracy anymore than I am justifying shirinkage. However in the real world both are a cost of doing buisness. Both are a "tax" on being popular.

      --
      vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
    4. Re:Obscurity by fwarren · · Score: 1

      Here let me fix that for you

      Dilbert Fast. It's for people who know it exists. Which obviously was not me.

      That however is not the case any longer. Thanks for the tip. To bad you decided to be snotty while helping me out at the same time.

      --
      vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
  84. Wil Shipley on Piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://blog.wilshipley.com/2005/06/piracy.html

  85. Love this. by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    Seriously, people will buy in if you make them love you and your product. Anyone that has any chance of ever paying for something will reward stuff they love. But you have to make them love it.

    On the other hand, as a business, that should be your goal anyway. Anything less isn't good business.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  86. Consider what consumers are used to now by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    "I'm an indie developer about to release a small ($5 â" $10 range) utility for graphic designers.

    Here's the problem. You are competing with app stores now, on both Windows and Mac. They make DRM pretty much invisible to the user in most cases.

    That means that ANY protection you add not benefitting from this framework annoys users way more than it will do anything else.

    If you are not releasing though an app store then you may as well not even bother unless your app is DRM free, or so amazing that people may in fact go to the trouble of entering a serial number.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  87. Too obtrusive by pavon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have no problem paying for software that is useful, especially if it reasonably priced. However, there have been many times where I needed to get a job done and was hindered in doing so because of the hoops I had to jump through to get software activated on an offline machine, or didn't have access to the serial number at the time. This has burned me enough that I won't buy any software that requires activation, and am even leery of simple serial number activation.

    Nearly all the software on pirate sites has been cracked, so the pirate's version won't require the user to enter a serial number or be calling home on the first install anyway. Even these simple anti-piracy methods hurt the user and not the pirate.

    1. Re:Too obtrusive by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Nearly all the software on pirate sites has been cracked, so the pirate's version won't require the user to enter a serial number or be calling home on the first install anyway. Even these simple anti-piracy methods hurt the user and not the pirate.

      I don't believe you. I am convinced most pirate software does not even remove call home functionality and instead just patch a response to trying a key to always make it believe it is valid. I also believe they also still require a key, that is included with the installer in a text file.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  88. Provide "Feelies" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Provide your customers something that is not easily bit-torrentable. Recognize that the value of a paying customer is the pride of ownership and the ease of use versus piracy.

    Things that come to mind:
    Limited free support
    "Material" items ie goods - send them a mug, a shirt or whatever matches your pricing model, or perhaps a paper copy of the manual
    Special newsletter that contains items of *real value* - IE not just spam, but things like promotions, tips and tricks. Something a user is excited to receive rather than add to their spam filter, be sure to have an opt-out feature.
    Restricted community forums for registered users, which contains things like:
    *Developmental builds
    *Constantly updated help files for download (.chm files or whatever)
    *API documentation and the license to use it
    *Source code (not downloadable, but as viewable text)

  89. Somewhat silly to worry about piracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At $5-10, it's not worth messing around with torrent sites and possibly getting hit with malware, etc, while downloading an illegal copy, for people who actually work for a living. (That is, not students and youth.) Most piracy isn't lost sales, it's non-sales to people who wouldn't purchase your work even if there was no pirated version available. (The exception is with very expensive programs necessary to do certain work, like certain programs by Adobe and Autodesk et al.)

  90. Two things that worked for me by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 0

    An big fat splash screen that gets progressively longer you use the "trialware". Also, providing source code for the product under ONLY FOR YOUR PERSONAL USE license

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  91. should be simple by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    Charge a reasonable price. Provide updates as necessary. Don't plan for you and your kids and grandkids to retire on this one application; rather, use the profits to keep yourself in cheese nips until you build your next application. And the next one after that. In the meantime, don't worry about piracy. It costs more to pursue, in stress, money and goodwill, than you'd ever get back in additional licenses.

    Decades ago, I wrote a content management system back when they weren't as common as dirt. I wanted to distribute it in a fashion where it would do the job but the code wouldn't be directly copyable. It's obvious in retrospect how stupid that was. It was all for nothing , and all that time spent could have been spent on my next product instead.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  92. License serial numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just hand out licenses with the users name and associated random garbage. Don't call home or check anything over the network.

  93. From my own experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking as somebody who has been selling graphics software for more than $10, less than $5 and as freeware; nothing will stop piracy.
    ALL of my software has been cracked and distributed on warez-sites. This includes the completely security-free freeware software, which was claimed to be somehow "cracked". Not even giving software away for free will stop piracy.

    Don't waste time creating a complex security system (but make sure you have one; it makes paying customers feel good) when you could have spend that time on features, support or marketing. Especially the latter; from a business point of view, a product is merely a set of unique selling points to be used by the sales & marketing department.

  94. Don't deter it by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

    Charge enough for the game before you make it that you won't lose money if all the copies after you make it are pirated. That's the very best way to handle piracy. As a bonus for this strategy, you can make sure people who pre-paid get something nifty (but preferably not gameplay unbalancing) for their faith in you before you even had a product.

    Barring that, just ignore it. If you can't make enough money on the game, tell people that you weren't able to make enough money to pay for your time and are thinking of leaving the business. Give figures on how much you made (not on what percent you think was pirated) so people can see that you made squat on making something decent and useful for them.

    If you want to, you can try offering people who can prove they don't have a pirated copy stuff that isn't necessary to play the game, but is nifty and shows off that they bought it. This works especially well if your game has a strong online component. This works even better if there's some sort of way to allow people to purchase this item in-game for the cost of the game.

    Charge for access to the server if it's an online game.

    Set it up so players are solving some random problem for you by playing the game. Make money selling that solution.

    Stop trying to force people to give you money. Trust in them to give you money if you make something good enough. People know how it works. And a gentle education is usually all that's needed if they forget.

    1. Re:Don't deter it by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

      Ahh, re-read the OP and realized my answer wasn't fully relevant. For software like that...

      Release it as Open Source. Put it up on an app store someplace relevant to your target audience for a small fee. Trademark key elements of the interface to force people who try to just clone your project and sell it themselves to avoid using any of your branding.

      Again, stop trying to force people to give you money. Just make it really easy for them to do so. Gentle encouragement works. Trust that people know the equation and will support you if they like what you make. Remind them if they seem to forget.

  95. embed CC# by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    have everyone pay by credit card and embed their credit card details in the executable steganographically (it has to be possible in code too !) and tell the buyers you've done it. It should stop them passing the .exe around anyway.

    --
    Nullius in verba
    1. Re:embed CC# by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      I can't say for sure whether embedding the credit card number in the code would be illegal in most countries, but it would absolutely get your merchant account fried and get you (as the merchant) blacklisted forever if your bank caught you doing it. Remember, piracy isn't the only way that info could get out... someone could literally get his laptop stolen, malware could scrape the info, etc.

      The best way to sell it is to make it easier and more convenient for users to buy than to pirate. There's an opportunity cost to piracy, like the risk of having some rootkit sink its hooks into Windows that you'll never get rid of. It takes time for pirates to verify that a pirated app is at least somewhat likely to be safe & non-trojan'ed. That's your window of opportunity -- users can pay $10, get it now without further ceremony, and have it painlessly work forever, or they can roll the dice and take their chances with a crack from Belarus.

    2. Re:embed CC# by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      So embed some random nonce into the executable and tell them it's their credit card data

      I do like your idea of embedding malware and threatening to unleash it if theft is detected.

      I'm only joking by the way, but this is fun...

      --
      Nullius in verba
  96. Have a separate licensed version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you use a serial number it will be cracked and posted online overnight. I've found a good solution is to have a separate download for the licensed version. They get the trial version. When they pay you give them a link for the full version. The full version takes a serial number. Most payment services will even automate all of that for you.

      Then there's issue #2, which is that your software is almost certainly not going to sell enought to be worth the trouble, anyway. I don't mean to be snide or discouraging. That's just the way it is. People generally don't pay for software and don't need to. If what you're doing is worth having, someone else will write a free version. Even with iPhone apps, which are at "peak fad", the number of people who really make money is small.

    1. Re:Have a separate licensed version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or maybe make it so the serial numbers aren't algorithm-generated, which is how most keygens get made. personalize each one from each paying customer, so you can backtrack it. anything else is "just asking for it".

  97. Dont sweat the small stuff by Intrinsic · · Score: 1

    I have found that the less you worry about piracy, the less of an issue it will be for you. The people who are going to pay for your product are the ones that value it and can afford it. The rest wouldn't probably pay for it regardless if you setup some kind of drm or not.

  98. TextPad has a nice way of doing this by SampleFish · · Score: 1

    I really like TextPad. You can download it from the developer and use it right away if you need to. It will ask you to pay for it. One license seems to work forever for all versions. It doesn't need internet access or any other fancy bullshit to get it working. Thinking too much about your protection is going to cost you more money than it makes you.

    Keep it simple. Don't spend too much time and money on your solution. If people want to pay you then they will. You can't force people to buy your product.

  99. Seed it yourself by meta-monkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can you create an ad supported version? If so, create an ad supported version and seed it yourself.

    The people who want to buy the software will come to your site and buy it from you (requires serial #). Those who go to your site and say "$5? F that noise, yo!" (because that's how pirates talk) will go start looking for torrents. Seed the ad-supported version yourself. Make sure it's the most popular torrent for your software. Anybody who decides they'd rather torrent it than pay you gets the ad-supported version and is probably none the wiser that the paid version doesn't have ads.

    Now you get $5-$10 out of the people who were willing to pay for it, and you make some off the ads for the people who weren't.

    Yes, somebody can crack the no-ads paid version and torrent that. Every month or so, look for it. When that happens, either try to out-seed them (so people who don't know the difference download your version) or just release a "patch" and seed that. So the currently cracked version might be 1.5, but you just released 1.6 ("now with more graphicals and improved performances!") and most people are going to download the most recent version. Now you're ahead until they crack 1.6.

    Alternatively, you could also seed it yourself with a message that says "hey buddy, I know you got this off Pirate Bay, but come on, it's $5 and here's a picture of my starving kids. Help me out!" and a link to buy the full version.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    1. Re:Seed it yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is probably the best answer on here.

  100. that is the wrong question by Dan667 · · Score: 1

    the right question is "what services can I provide that my Customers want". Your never going to get pirates to buy your game no matter what you do.

  101. escorts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Travel in convoy through high risk regions, with naval escort and just blow the pirates out of the water.
    Also, hide the odd QShip in the convoy to reveal its weapons in the event of attack.
    I'd also been wondering about drone carriers, so the escort can be smaller than an aircraft carrier because it's carrying unmanned armed drones.

  102. Hat-based economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make it so if you register the program and it's legit you get a free hat in Team Fortress 2.

  103. Back when 1% was pirated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When was this, the 70s?

    I can tell you that in the pre-Black-Friday 90s and late 80s, everyone I knew who had a legit copy of something like Photoshop or Corel or AutoCAD had their media and serial numbers go 'round the block many times. Probably at least a 5:1 pirate:legit ratio, if not worse. Of course, these products cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars then. Actually, -every- piece of software was more expensive then, considering that most games sold new for $50 and most utilities for $75+, back then. Every game I bought made its rounds among my friends who were interested, and vice-versa. It's not like, as a middle/high school student, I could afford to pay for them, and professional programs were expensive even for professionals.

    If you're worrying about piracy figures less than 1:1, and you're not selling $10K enterprise software, you're wasting your time and money.

    1. Re:Back when 1% was pirated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry. Pre-Black-September days, even.

  104. Piracy is Free Marketing by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In business there is no good or evil, there is only money. Don't let yourself fall into the ideology trap that pirates are evil - that's a question for a philosophy class in college or a million arguments on the internet - but all that should matter to you as a businessman is the money.

    The best possible case of DRM is to convert potential pirates into customers. There are lots of not-so-great cases, they generally involve pissing off your paying customers, something that should be avoided at all costs because paying customers who are unhappy will tell the world how unhappy your product has made them and that will discourage any new paying customers.

    So, I am going to suggest that instead of DRM to punish pirates you should look for ways to identify pirates and upsell to them. Give them the carrot instead of the stick, that way you never have to worry about accidentally hitting a paying customer with the stick - worse case is just more carrots.

    One option is to let the software run just fine without a serial number, but after some number of launches without a serial number, like maybe 20, start putting up a click-through start-up screen. On that screen you can nicely point out that they've used the software 20 times now and it is only fair that since they are getting so much value out of it, they should pay for it - remember you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Then give the user three choices:

    1) Enter their serial number
    2) Go to a web page where they can buy a serial number
    3) Click through and use the software anyway

    If someone is inclined to pay this helps them to remember, if they are already a paying customer and they lost their serial number or whatever, this won't stop them from getting their work done and so won't piss them off and if they are a hardcore pirate who will never pay, you still haven't lost anything anyway.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    1. Re:Piracy is Free Marketing by Rinikusu · · Score: 1

      /* but all that should matter to you as a businessman is the money. */

      No.

      If all that matters is money and you throw ethics out the window, then you're a sociopathic asshole who deserves to be dragged out behind the woodshed and repeatedly raped by wild animals. While that's a nice "fuck you, I've got mine" mindset you've got there, it makes the world absolutely suck for everyone else.

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    2. Re:Piracy is Free Marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, make it so the buttons are randomly positioned in the dialog. People can automatically click through a dialog but randomizing the buttons will make it not automatic.

    3. Re:Piracy is Free Marketing by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      You know what is weird? That you decided to quote me out of context to make it seem like I was saying something totally unrelated to what I really said. And then you have a little tirade about this thing that was only in your head. It is particularly weird because my original words are still right there. No one is fooled by your partial quote.

      Why did you do that? What did you hope to accomplish? Are you just hurting so bad inside that you felt like you had to lash out at some random stranger on the internet so you made up a reason to do it?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:Piracy is Free Marketing by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Also, make it so the buttons are randomly positioned in the dialog. People can automatically click through a dialog but randomizing the buttons will make it not automatic.

      I am afraid you didn't understand my intent. There is no value in trying to being punitive here. This is not about punishing pirates, it is about encouraging the people who want to pay and not wasting any resources on the people who do not want to pay. Randomizing the buttons won't even faze the hardcore pirates, but it might annoy a paying customer. Sure, it is a small chance, but even one lost sale is still a lost sale, so why bother putting in extra work just to increase that risk?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  105. Low price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The $5-$10 range is enough to deter piracy--in the sense that anyone who pirates your software was never going to buy it anyway, so even though piracy will happen, you're not going to lose sales over it. You don't need to do anything else.

  106. May be you should ask to pay insted of forcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I pirate games that cost over 30$. With DRM fails I experianced its just too much to risk to get pain in return...
    I also pirate games that do not allow trying before I buy. And I sometimes pay afterwards. Why? Cuz i do want to support good work creators so that they can continue.
    So my advice is, embrace piracy. Instead of punishing maker it a moral choice. Like Indie Humble Bundle does by showing how much on avarage users payed. May be add facebook connect with 'be first from your friends to support this game'.
    Also make game in small chunks. And hint kickstarter style that money you pay goes towars making next game. Pirates can't pirate something that was not made yet.
    Also check this TED talk on embracing your fans as if they do not support you then you are doing something wrong anyways
    http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking.html

  107. Just make something nobody wants by damn_registrars · · Score: 1, Funny

    After all, do you see anyone pirating slashdot? It is a fool-proof strategy that has worked for taco and the rest of the employees of this site for a long time now!

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  108. Don't waste your time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For small programs that aren't over-the-top popular you might never find a pirated copy of it on the net. Believe me, there are certain things that I looked hard for such as the decrypted code for phpmotion because the author claimed open source and after buying the license I didn't get that -- just encrypted software. Unfortunately I couldn't find it, only sites where people would decrypt each page for a set amount. I've seen other indie software without torrents or the full version uploaded to a file sharing site even back when megaupload was a big thing. Just remember that piracy is the least of your concern. Work on delivering a high quality product and you'll sell more than what you'll "lose" from piracy. No really, you don't lose anything -- people that pirate will not pay for your product anyway unless they wanted to try it before buying it. Something basic like a serial number and online validation is going to be your best bet to deter some piracy if any.

  109. Goddamit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just realized I am a hoarder.

  110. Relase under GPLv3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Release under GPLv3 charge your fees for support and upgrades,patches, downloads etc..You'll never be able to deter piracy or enforce DRM give up even trying.

  111. Sell old versions for dirt cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if someone like adobe really wanted to slow down piracy, they'd sell older versions, say 2 product cycles back (cs4, as cs6 is current), for dirt cheap* and without support. until someone actually does something like this, there is noway to tell how the demographic industry would respond, so don't give the whole "legit customers will just wait" shenanigans. if they're going to wait 2 full product cycles, why the hell would they get the latest version anyways?

    *yes, i'm talking the whole master collection for $100. $100 that is way, way, waaaaay better than nothing, and those shitty elements versions can eat the dicks of the uber-novices they are designed for.

  112. Serial Number by ormico · · Score: 1

    Simple Serial numker/License Key

    If you want to go one step further you could make it register with a central location to make sure the user is only using the key on one device. If it isn't out of your price range, there are services that will do this automaticly.

    This is enough to work for any mostly honest user. I'm sure it can be circumvented by someone who is determined to bypass it, but its enough to prevent most users from buying 1 license and installing it on 100 devices.

  113. Individualized executables by mysidia · · Score: 1

    I recommend no upfront enforcement. But delayed enforcement mechanisms, where you seek to detect piracy rather than prevent it. Detect it as covertly as possible -- arrange for the pirated version to stop working or fall into a degraded mode of operation suddenly, after a sufficient period of time elapsed, or at a new release, while you make as certain as possible that legitimate customers are not impacted. Don't tip your hand in regards to what all your defense mechanisms are; instead of seeking to block pirates, seek to make their use of your software unreliable or full of annoying surprises.

    Normally when there's an upfront enforcement mechanism such as a serial number, the defense is easily detected and subverted.

    On the other hand; if your defense is broader, and the code less identifiable, you may frustrate pirates into confessing and buying.

    I see the goal is to convert pirates into customers, which might not always be possible --- but by frustrating them, and then offering them a "discount" to come clean, you may profit from the pirates.

    So, instead of serial number locks.... Just embed the customer's name and address information in non-trial executables "This software is licensed to: John Doe"; Display the last 4 digits of some personal detail; store in the executable a private encryption key (Client SSL certificate), for securing communications with a remote server, trusted remote public key, and installation ID. No big serial numbers entered by the customer. No activation codes; possibly just an order number pre-populated with a number unique to the order. Customer-specific media.

    Display the customer's information, with a copyright warning, when they start the program.

    Have the installation process, also involve downloading an encrypted data file that will be used by the client.

    Digitally sign the production executables using authenticode; or other code signing technology for your chosen OS.

    Implement your server, such that all communications from the client must be digitally signed, with the private key (or authenticated with client certificate); that is unique to the customer.

    Have clients periodically check in with the server; and provide a mechanism where the server can lock out a specific installation of the product, eg by quietly updating the data file to indicate ["As of 90 days from the date this new data file revision is delivered, this product will cease to function, until the customer answers our calls and gets a new license for this installation, or a piracy unlock"].

    Include features in the software that subtly integrate services from a remote server. ("Cloud-enabled features").

    For bonus points, include freemium features available for no charge, and other cloud-enabled features requiring a monthly or annual fee.

    If pirated software is detected, the free features are shut off at the remote server.

    You detect "innocent" piracy; when you over an extended period of time see a few; two or three more than the ordered number copies of software active under a customer.

    If it continues for a sufficiently long amount of time; possibly you send the legit customer a polite e-mail, or you arrange for all their installations to prompt for a username and password next time the program starts, to confirm that it's an installation authorized by the customer.

    Obvious abuse occurs when you detect 100 or 200 extra copies of the product... well, in that case, you might still go through the same process; or you might push out deactivation in 180 days, for all that customer's software; and requirement for compensation, before that specific person is allowed to purchase more units.

  114. Its easy and human nature by letherial · · Score: 1

    Reasonable prices, a decent program and respect. a lot of times I pirate just out of spite, but companys that i respect ill buy from if i am interested in the product and i have the funds to do so.

    Also, focus on your customers, not on the pirates.

    Add DRM and your basically challenging people to pirate it.

  115. Partial Key Verification is your answer. by Deffexor · · Score: 2

    I found this answer on SO a couple years ago and flagged it as a favorite because I figured I might need it some day.

    The short version is a lot like what people have already said, have cracked keys be detectable and then decide from there what to do.

    http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3550556/ive-found-my-software-as-cracked-download-on-internet-what-to-do

    This guy decided to redirect the users to a website to inform them that they're using a cracked key and that they should really purchase the software.

    His studies seem to indicate that it works well.

    1. Re:Partial Key Verification is your answer. by Wickedpygmy · · Score: 1

      The idea above sounds well thought out, but it might require a call home detection method. I've been thinking that software updates can be made to exclude known cracked serials, without changing the software version number, therefore making it more confusing for pirates to obtain the correct crackable versions? In a more primitive way I was going to suggest flooding p2p sites with bundles of "trial version + broken serial". In order to give the torrent some credibility the serial could appear to work for a month? In my experience I have found that repeated failed attempts to crack a piece of software only make me lose faith in the crackers and crack sites, my faith in the actual application remains intact.

    2. Re:Partial Key Verification is your answer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Partial Key Verification is a system begging for abuse. You only have a limited number of groups so after say 5 version-speciffic keygens you get a fully working keygen. After this you can't update version without killing the old legal keys. The entropy of each group is low so the hacker might write an interactive universal keygen that runs all gruop values against an installed app.

      Better idea: digitally sign the licensed user name with BLS. You get 1024bit RSA equivalent security at 160 bit signature size. Strip it down to 140 bit by bruteforcing 20 bits at verification time, pack it up in base 32 and you get a 28 character key. Even 24-25 characters if drop security a bit, it's unlikely the kids will build a botnet to factor your key.

      https://crypto.stanford.edu/pbc/manual/ch02s01.html
      http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/10681/a-good-enough-digital-signature-with-short-key

      By going the BLS route you get short keys that can be easily printed, dictated over the phone or typed, while at the same time having 100% guarantee that a keygen cannot be built for your app, only a binary patch (witch usually comes virus infected).

      For bonus points:
      - The key is linked to the username, so you should use the credit card or Paypal name of the buyer, thus making him reluctant to leak it (key is useless without the name)
      - Maintain a blacklist of compromised keys found on google, rebuild weekly or daily to update blacklist without changing the minor revision number. This makes pathes more problematic.
      - Risky: link a static, fat-ass binary (50MB or so). Add random data if necessary. This will make it harder for warez sites to carry a patched binary
      - Phone home: don't do it, you get the primary benefit (no keygen is possible) already from BLS. The seconday benefit of limited per key installs is bogus, you will frustrate your paying users when their hardrive dies and uninstall is impossible etc.

  116. Hide the rum! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the pirates will eventually lose interest and go somewhere else to drink

  117. Make life easy by drwho · · Score: 1

    Make it easy to buy (paypal, or similar), install, and use. Make a custom binary which fills in registration data, which comes on the title/bootup screen, saying "This software is licensed for the exclusive use of $customer, all rights reserved, copyright $year". Hide it in the binary (make it hard to find and edit with a hex editor/ decompiler), but don't spend too much time doing so. You have the right to be paid for your work, but being a dick in protecting those rights is just not worth the effort.

  118. license key + name displayed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Embed the name from the credit card into the license key. Any shared keys trace back to the original purchaser.
    20 yrs ago I bought to software that did this. I've never shared it.

  119. Just say no to DRM by devent · · Score: 1

    DRM exist only to make your customers suffer. No pirate will have any trouble with your DRM. If a customer don't want to pay you, they will not pay you. It don't matter if you add DRM or not. Either the DRM will be broken, and then you can download it anyway or your DRM will not be broken, but than nobody will use your software.

    So don't matter how you look at it: DRM exist only to make your customers suffer.

    Furthermore, DRM is Fuck You to all your customers. Not only it will make them suffer, but it takes their rights away. The right to create backups, fair-use rights, re-selling rights, etc. In my opinion anyone who uses DRM with the product should lose any copyright protections. Because DRM take away any rights it should also deny any privileges.

    --
    http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
  120. TO CRACK, PLACE AN X IN THE BRACKETS [ ] by melezov · · Score: 1

    A simple nag screen on application startup should be sufficient.
    Do not reduce any functionality from the application; there is no point, it will only drive the users away.

    The nag screen can be legally removed by entering a simple combination of username / checksum (bob / 2013-028819)
    Don't do anything cute like checking for time elapsed since application install, simply have it from the start.

    Do not give the disassemblers any satisfaction by trying to implement a sophisticated protection mechanism.
    Compile a string named "TO CRACK, PLACE AN X IN THE BRACKETS [ ]" and then check the string for [X] to skip the nag screen.
    Then implement a crack by doing a simple search replace across the binary so that you do not screw up future releases.

    Upload the crack for your own program to the PirateBay and place a comment in the crack stating that
    you are the owner of the program and that you understand that not everyone can afford to buy your program,
    but that perhaps they would reconsider once they use it for a while and start loving it. Be short and sweet.

  121. Just use an existing tool by Cyberax · · Score: 1

    Just buy an off-the-shelf copy protection solution, like AsProtect or Armadillo ( http://www.siliconrealms.com/ ) - it's cheap enough and will provide some protection against amateur crackers. Just don't turn on remote activation crap. Should be good enough for a small utility.

  122. Not be an asshole about it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What we have to worry about is lost sales due to piracy, not piracy itself. As long as piracy is done non-commercially, it really doesn't affect sales.

    So, crack down on counterfitting.

    If you are going to use DRM, don't use a DRM scheme that destroys a person's computer, or requires an always online connection. There are legitimate DRM schemes, such as the PSN, App Store, iTunes, etc. If there is a multiplayer mode, make sure it is a legitimate multiplayer mode, (there is absolutely no reason for SimCity to REQUIRE you to be online; Call of Duty is, however, made to be online, but remember that if there is Single-Player portion, you can't expect them to have a connection to play it).

    Don't sue your fans. As I said, crack down on counterfitting, but suing fans will just make them less likely to purchase from you. People are still willing to spend the same amount of money on entertainment they used to. This number is not going to grow, but if you are offensive enough, it can shrink.

    Don't use Monetization schemes. This produces some money in the short term, but just pisses off fans in the long term. Make sure any DLC is well worth the price, and it's satisfying without it. Satisfied fans will come back, with their wallets open. Unsatisfied fans won't.

    Don't muddle the genre. A dedicated multiplayer mode could add hours of playtime to a game, but something that was just tacked on is less then worthless, (there are a thousand half-decent multiplay games as it is). If it's a single player game, let it be a single player game, (as in, don't force people to play multiplayer to affect their single-player game). If it's a multiplayer game, like Battlefield xyz, don't half-ass the single player. It doesn't need a single player game, so all it really needs is a basic training mode; a chance for you to learn the basics of the game, and maybe a firing range. If you want a decent single AND multiplayer game, then treat each as equally important.
    Co-op is nice, but don't force it. Take Resident Evil 6, it lets you play Co-op through the campaigns, (yah). However, if you want to play offline you have to change five different settings just to do that. Compared to L4D, where they simply had 1 choice between offline and online.

    Provide additionals for free. Themes, backgrounds, ringtones, a few high res rederings. Let fans be fans. This still lets you sell t-shirts, soundtracks, art books, guides, etc., but nourish your fans, and they will reward you.

    Learn from your mistakes. If a sequel is worse then the original, you could complete destroy the fan base. If you aren't going to put the effort into a sequel, then don't bother with it. Fans would much rather LOVE a single game/movie/album, then have their love destroyed by a crappy sequel. When I say LOVE, I mean they might be fans for life, and for decades to come be willing to by merchandise from the show, attend conventions/live shows, all the while giving you money, but a single crappy sequel can ruin this.

    Make sure merchandise is worth the price. Again, if they are fans, they will be willing to buy whole hoards of things for a fair price, but if it's not a fair price, they might only buy 1 or 2.

  123. Beg everyone to pirate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Piracy is the best and the most wildly successful outcome you should hope for. In the most likely scenario, nobody will use or even notice your utility. If people pirate it, it means it is relevant and people want to use it. And the more of them are out there, the better it is for you. That means that eventually companies will start using it - and they will pay. So any basic method that lets people know that they should pay is sufficient.

  124. win by volume by v1 · · Score: 1

    instead of charging a typical amount for your software (say $70) and trying to lock it down yourself and go direct to customers, get on a store (like Apple's AppStore) that has a very reliable, unobtrusive, standardized, and reasonably effective (i.e. "friendly") DRM. Drop the cost, (down to say $20-25) and make up for it in the volume due to the lower cost AND due to being on a friendly store.

    Software distribution is going to be almost exclusively digital download soon. And most people just aren't willing to shell out big dollars for a double-click, regardless of what it is. But if you can get your product in front of many eyes, and make it uber-easy to buy, you have a good shot at getting the volume to make up the difference.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  125. Just the opposite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In that industry, sophisticated copy protection is a must

    That's total rubbish, I'm afraid.

    The article linked by the parent applies even more to audio production software than to games. The musician is going to make a multi-year investment in a given package (like a DAW) and therefore must have a good relationship with the manufacturer, and not be annoyed by DRM and losing keys on machine upgrade and similar nonsense.

    Propellerhead lost custom when they went from a relationship based on trust to one based on dongles, and they're not the only ones. DRM is not a recipe for success. "Focus on your paying customers, not on your pirates" is very good advice.

  126. Gimp by PPH · · Score: 1

    Give it away for free. With a cryptic UI and no documentation. Make your money by writing O'Reilly books on how to use it.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  127. Is it really "paranoia" if it happens that often? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > I've bet I've had over 30 credit cards replaced at various times

    Replacing 30 cards is not normal. The only identifiable common factor in these incidents is you. "Paranoia" isn't a word one should apply to things that happen regularly. Based on the average age of people around here and assuming you didn't get one until the age of 18, it looks like you have to get a new card at least once a year and probably more often than that. Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe, just maybe, it's something you're doing?

    I realize that you think you're only on the hook for $50 (and may have forgotten that $50 x 30 = $1500), but that's not even the true cost and that money comes from somewhere. Most likely the costs are absorbed by the merchants and the rest of us suffer higher prices as a result. My experience is that I've had exactly one card that was an issue in my entire life. I was able to identify the company responsible and it was not due to an issue I could have known about. And I've had a card of some form or another for ~15 years now. So I'm pretty shocked by how you could have had so many issues and yet be so cavalier about it.

  128. Guilt by Cloud+K · · Score: 1

    Keep it DRM free, maybe a basic serial number registration system.

    Add on your site and in the app "please be honest, I'm just trying to put food on the table"

    Those who want to crack it will crack it. You cannot stop that, so there's no point in even trying to encrypt the registration key to the nth degree. Anything more than a basic registration system will just
    a) take more effort on your part
    b) inconvenience legitimate customers of your software

  129. Serial #, personal info, watermarking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IMHO personalizing each copy (where people see their own name as they run it) is totally harmless and will tend to make people want to not spread their copy. That makes it a good idea. In some situations, watermarking the app's generated data might be ok, but probably not in your case, since people who uy a graphic utility will want data quality w/out extra noise. Adding customer's name to generated metadata may be ok, but some people might legitimately freak out about it. If you do that, make sure the software clearly tells people it's doing that, and has a not-default option for skipping that.

    (Personalization will be trivially circumvented by people who care to, but remember: the consequences of that to you are zero. Failed deterrence is a don't-care condition.)

    Online activation is mostly harmless, but probably deters purchase more than it deters piracy. You'll break even or slightly lose, doing that.

    Encrypted binaries sounds pointless and useless but also costless. I can't think of what the point of that would be, or how it would deter either piracy or purchases.

  130. Give them what they want/need, and a reason to buy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Forget the DRM! It just interferes with people getting their work done, and most who will benefit from your tool will be happy to pay a few $$ for its capabilities. If they give it away to others to try out, then great! That will bring MORE people to your site to purchase since then they can get support, updates, and other good stuff.

    As an aside. I worked as principal engineer for a major software vendor for many years. We investigated such tools intensively, and realized that even when they work well, there is still a chance that something will break and a customer who cannot use something that they DEPEND upon to get THEIR work done, that they have paid good $$ for, will cost you in numerous ways.

    1. They will find another tool to do the same thing, but doesn't encumber them.
    2. They will spread the word that you are unreliable and not to use your software to just the kinds of people you want to sell to!

    So, in the immortal words of whoever - fergedaboutit!

  131. Humble Suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not take the money and manpower you're spending on people who won't buy your product and spend it on the people who will, instead?

  132. Serial by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

    Best method I've seen is generating a license file which has the users name and email address in it. That will at least make them think twice before throwing it up on TPB, assuming you've got a manual check to make sure people aren't putting in blatantly bogus information. It also makes it easy to blacklist a serial when a new version is released, and you can refuse to sell to that person if they come back again. Obviously there are ways around this, but at some point it's a mutual respect between developer and end-user. The most draconian I would get would be to have it phone-home when a license is applied. Apply the license whether they're online or not, but just have it keep retrying until it finds a connection.

  133. What Is a Reasonable Way To Deter Piracy? by Sperbels · · Score: 1

    No?

    1. RE: What Is a Reasonable Way To Deter Piracy? by theBuddman · · Score: 1

      Have a strong navy.

  134. hardware dongle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cheap software doesn't need much if anything. On the other hand if you are selling your software for $100+ I would look into using hardware dongles. They are nearly impossible to break.

  135. Don't reinvent the wheel... The App Store by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

    There's a Mac App Store: http://www.apple.com/au/osx/apps/app-store.html
    There's the iOS App Store - available from iTunes and on iOS devices
    There's the Windows Store: http://windows.microsoft.com/is-is/windows-8/apps
    There's Google Play: http://www.android.com/apps/

    They all handle DRM for you in a relatively unobtrusive way, plus they handle payment processing and distribution. The end user doesn't need to worry about you going out of business, your authentication servers going down, your serial numbers not working etc or dealing with another payment processor.

    The advantage of something like the Mac App Store is that if I buy apps on here, Apple keep my purchase history. When I get a new machine, I sign in to the App Store and download all my apps from one place, and don't need to keep track of serial numbers or activation keys or anything like that.

    This leaves you to handle doing the coding and the promotion of the app. Yes, you give up a cut of 30% or so, but if that's a big problem for you, put your price up slightly to take this into account. Or, give up the 30% cut knowing you don't need to handle any payment processing, hosting downloads, going over your bandwidth cap on your hosting plan because your app became popular, DRM, activation, providing lost serial numbers to users etc...

  136. Other ideas by eulernet · · Score: 1

    I read all the above comments, and here are 2 new ideas:

    1) give it freely !
    Work hard on improving your tool, and ask for money if you want.
    Once your tool reached a critical point, just sell your company.
    Hey, it worked for Instagram !

    2) give version 1.0 freely.
    Improve your program for your paying customers, and publish a list of improvements of every version.
    This way, people will try your program, and if they find it useful, they'll pay to have the latest versions.
    Don' worry about pirates if you upgrade your program frequently.

  137. This by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Well, aside from the semi-phonetic use of the language - this is actually the best suggestion. If you can customize the version, that's the best idea. In fact, if you want to distribute a trial, make it a fully functional one and put a tasteful "Trial version - not for commercial use" on it. People who are just dinking around will probably not care - and probably won't buy it anyway. A reasonable fraction of those who might not otherwise pay for it, but who use it for "work" will be shamed into buying a copy.

    If it's really useful, and only $5-10, you've really done all you can. I'm not going to claim to be the most ethical software user on the planet, but I do have about half a dozen shareware licenses I've paid for. Those are the utilities which are so straightforward and timeless that I reinstall them on every machine I get. Usually I "try" software for a year or two. I know, that seems long, but I may only get to use it a couple of times. I know that if I reinstall it on the next new HD or machine, it's worth my while and worth paying the developer. I feel better sending someone like you $10 to register a great utility than the $1000/year extortion I pay to Autodesk.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  138. What about Steam? by lowfence · · Score: 1

    Why not go the Steam way? Since I got it I never got a game in another way.

  139. preventing free riders by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

    So you want to stop free riders, huh? First of all DRM can work, but only in some situations and some element of luck is involved. Not that the purpose of these techniques is not profit maximization. The purpose is simply to reduce or stop free riders.

    ---The DRM Option---
    1. Code the DRM yourself. Make sure that a cracker at last would require knowledge of assembly language to crack it. Anyone can use a hex editor. At least make sure that your cracker has to be somewhat competent.

    2. Don't advertise the software too much. Try to keep it from getting too popular. As soon as a competent cracker sees it and thinks your software seems useful he's going to put your code on his to_disassemble_list and a crack could be released in just a few days.

    3. Don't make the software too good or too useful. Ideally it should not do anything better than other software in its category. it should not be a best-in-class sort of thing. If it seems to be getting too popular introduce some subtle but annoying bugs in the next release.

    ---Bait and Switch---
    With this method you introduce the software initially as freeware but not open source. Build a following. Let people get dependent on it. I'd recommend giving it a full year or two so that people basically think of it as free software.

    Then go commercial. Give as little warning as possible. Quietly remove old versions from your web site beforehand A good time to do this is just before you fix an annoying bug. If you have to, leave a bug unfixed specifically for this purpose. Even introduce one if you have to. Just make sure to add a new feature when you do so.

    At this point introduce the above homemade DRM and try to keep a low profile as noted in the first strategy. The delay between initial release and the implementation of DRM will discourage a large percentage of crackers. It just won't be on their radar anymore since it is old software at this point. Of course if your software has already become too popular then it is still hopeless, but you have to prevent that.

    The basic idea behind these strategies is not to try to defeat the crackers. They are way smarter than you are. Just forget it. The idea is to stay below their radar and make your DRM just hard enough to stop the easy search and replace hex editor attacks.

    Eventually your software may indeed be discovered by a competent cracker and then the game is over. Go work on some new software. Rinse and repeat.

    ---divide and conquer---
    One tip for staying obscure is to break up your software into many smaller applications. Not only does that make more targets for the crackers for the same functionality, but it makes the software less useful which remember is a good thing. You don't need to get every customer in the world. Just enough to make some money. Don't get greedy or you will certainly fail.

    If your software has a menu take a look at the different options and see if you can split them out into different applications.

    ---keep prices low---
    A cracker is less likely to target you if you are only asking $5-$10. I see that this is already your strategy. It is an excellent way to both deter crackers and to deter potential pirates from even bothering to search for a cracked version. Cracking a $1000 application gives way more prestige than cracking a $5 one. Note that this merges quite nicely with the above divide and conquer strategy.

    --
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    1. Re:preventing free riders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your advice is to keep your App as secret as possible, then bait and switch the few that have found out about it, like it and find it useful.

      Worse advice ever. I really hope that you were being sarcastic.

  140. The key is to give me MORE. Not LESS by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's something big studios don't get, but some indies got that one right, so you might want to try it too.

    What's the big reason people buy "normal" goods in stores instead of, say, from the back of trucks for a fraction of the price? I mean, you can get a big screen TV for a few 100 instead of a few 1000 bucks, no really. Here it is, don't ask, don't tell. Don't want it? Gee, why could that be?

    Could it be the warranty you get when you buy it in a store? Or the additional goodies that come with it?

    Make sure that people who buy your software get MORE out of it than just the software they'd also get from a pirated copy. When they register their copy, how about gaining access to you for support? Certainly not full time and 24/7, but even knowing that I COULD mail you my problems is a big psychological issue. How about offering that you will hear their suggestions for future versions and the promise of some updates free/cheap when they are implemented? Having the ear of the maker of a tool I enjoy using and feeling my input is valued sure is worth 5 or 10 bucks. And you get free suggestions for improvement of handling for free, too.

    One of the biggest assets for you (and it's amazing how many ignore this): If that tool allows the creation of plugins, offer a place where people can showcase and offer their plugins, or if it is used to create something these people could probably want to publish, offer them a place to do that. Of course only if they are paying customers. Webspace is cheap or even free, what's problematic is to get people to VISIT yours, and you having a customer base for this tool means that you're a hub for your customers when they are trying to reach like minded people.

    YOU are the center of this tool, wherever you make this tool point everyone using this tool WILL know, whether they like to or not.

    Even the ones that didn't pay for it.

    This makes whatever webspace you offer (even if it's merely some sort of linking hub) critical for anyone who wants to publish what this tool creates, unless he has a better platform. It is very unlikely that they do, though.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  141. Serials are a good compromise by jellyfoo · · Score: 1

    I like serial codes being used to authenticate software because they're relatively painless, particularly if stored in a text file and copy & pasted when required. They should be locally-validated however - I don't think it's fair to deny people access to their software if the vendor goes out of business or the licensing servers are down.

    You might say "well with local validation serial codes are easy to pass around", which is true. But I know for example that with Neverwinter Nights, Bioware had the smart (and I genuinely mean smart instead of sarcasm) idea of having the user add the game serial keys to their forum profile. Once a key is added, the user is identified as owning the product and is granted access to further NWN-specific forums that require at least one of the appropriate keys. I think you also get access to more avatars relevant to the product keys you add.

    Basically you can stipulate that if a user wants support, they require a legit key. Perhaps think of other benefits one could provide to people with legit keys as well.

  142. Free for non-commercial use by thorbsd · · Score: 1

    I've always liked it when a product was released free for non-commercial use, and a low price for commercial use. Since this is targeted at people in graphics design, you've got people that just like to design for fun, and people that make a living out of it. Give it away to people to play around with, and if they decide it can help them in some type of commercial venture, you're there for them with a product they're already familiar with.

  143. Make hi-sec safe lololol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so u cant shoot other players

    Oh, you mean 'copyright infringement'.

    Well, like piracy in EVE Online, you can't stop it. You can only mitigate it.

    One, make sure it's a quality product. People dislike paying for shit. Two, make sure it's priced fairly. People dislike being gouged, even if you are the only source. Three, make sure you're not a raging asshole. That simply means no DRM. Because if DRM exists, people have a moral obligation to get an undamaged product in its place.

    Yeah, I'm serious about that last part, because when you're throwing rootkits on people's systems without their knowledge - effectively compromising their systems, sorry - fuck you.

    *cough*

    Anyway, those are your three steps to mitigating piracy.

    You will get people who cannot pay. The average college student is dirt poor, get used to it.

    You will get people who will not pay. Some people are big bags of dicks.

    The good news is, both of these categories will still serve as advertising. Think on it as an investment rather than a loss.

  144. Encrypted Bananas by tutufan · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else read it that way? Might not work, but I like the sound of it...

  145. Brad Wardell's Philosophy by hobb0001 · · Score: 1

    One concept that I've always given Brad Wardell (CEO of Stardock) kudos for is realizing that pirates are not your customers. They aren't even potential customers. You then have to keep that idea in mind when you do your market research to see if the price your customers are willing to pay are enough to justify your production costs.

  146. I don't know if you took this to mean that I would by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    pirate the app. I wouldn't. I simply wouldn't buy it or use it if I didn't think the price was fair.

    But the evidence I've seen says that piracy is basically people that wouldn't pay for software anyway—given an enforced choice between nothing and paying the asked price, they'd choose nothing.

    So you have two choices:

    1) Reduce the price more to turn some pirates into paying customers.
    2) Leave the price as-is and either fight piracy (and possibly lose paying customers due to annoyance) or don't (and end up with some people that wouldn't have paid your asking price using it).

    Either way, you're not likely to increase sales significantly with anti-piracy measures. And more and more tech and software and the 'net in general are goodwill markets in which people want to want to pay. It's part of the value of a product/service, and when it's lacking, you're missing the best of your marketing potential.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  147. Sasquatch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sasquatch Clearly.

  148. And, let me add— by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    the price range being talked about here is hardly a major expense. It's the price of a burger.

    I buy apps routinely in this price range, sight unseen, based on the customer reviews in the app store.

    Anyone that can't get people to shell out $10 for a product based on its description is not making a product that sounds very useful to the intended audience.

    At $10, I can't see how it would be worth a software pirate's time to track down and/or crack a piece of software, apart from people that are in it just to be able to say they did it—and no anti-piracy measure will stop anyone like that; quite the contrary, it will simply encourage them.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  149. You can not control another person's computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But you can control the services you give them.

    Lock out tech support and online services to registered customers only. It's that simple. If your program has no reason to go online, then DRM isn't going to help.

  150. App store or go home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your not on the MAS I probably won't buy your software. Unless your software is essential like Photoshop or VMware, or support and include licencing for all major OS (Linux, OSX & Win.) like Sublime text. The MAS is so convenient that I have repurchased software just so I don't have to hunt around for serials etc. next time I install. If your utility for graphic designers is not available for Mac then your wasting your time since most good designers are on OS X.

  151. Not your biggest problem by Minupla · · Score: 1

    To paraphrase another author -- your biggest problem is not going to be piracy, your biggest problem will be obscurity. Being well known that piracy numbers are significant will be success, as it implies your software is actually well enough known for someone to put in the time for a keygen.

    Min

    --
    On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
  152. easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

  153. Re:Asking the wrong crowd by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    of course, because we all know the 'right' crowd is? who exactly?

  154. Simple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Provide a quality product that people will be eager to pay for, at a fair price. Not rocket science.

    As a value added to buying your product, only provide support to legitimate users, close your forums so only registered users can read and post, this will make paying even more attractive since the hub for sharing information about your product, tips and tricks is only available to people who paid.

    Don't bother protecting the software, waste of time and energy.

  155. Put it on Steam for cheap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put it on Steam.

  156. Abolish copyright by Trogre · · Score: 1

    That will do it.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  157. Circus Ponies Notebook and Linode.com by mattr · · Score: 1

    Look at how others do it.

    One of the few pieces of software I have bought, enjoyed and thanked myself for buying it many times is Circus Ponies Notebook.
    http://www.circusponies.com/
    They do a 30 day trial. I don't remember if there is any other DRM but I doubt it since I really don't like having DRM, phone home, etc.
    I do use two other pieces of software that phone home on each launch without asking you (my firewall picks it up) which is extremely annoying. Don't do that.I tell people about them or consider buying more copies. The developer responds quickly and gives free updates.

    I am also extremely happy with linode.com and they give free upgrades periodically. That is a different service, and I am quite against you forcing the user to be online or phoning home, but you can see the kind of enthusiasm and increased users you get from good service.

    As for piracy, it happens. I would be against spending so much time on DRM that it jacks up the price. Figure it is free marketing and get on with it.

  158. Very funny! by um...+Lucas · · Score: 1

    Where have you been? Clearly not readings articles and comments on slashdot. Because if you were, you'd know that open source is the only way to go. Not just that, but information wants to be free, besides which, piracy impliesv"theft" which can only occur if you deprive someone of their bits when you acquire those bits of your own. So if your tool is any good, it will be copied rampantly. The drm mechanism will be cracked, and 9 out of every 10 users will be using copies for which you'll receive zero compensation. That leaves providing support as your only option. Which is useless for a simple tool that presumably would y need much support.

    That leaves your best option as making the program incredibly complicated, so that e en If someone gets their hands on your program, it'll be useless without a support contract.

    Because everyone here knows - those bits you create are just bits. App, music or movie, the creator of them shou,d expect no control or compensation once they go on the Internet. Right guys?

  159. Here is what I did by tftp · · Score: 1

    Some time ago I wrote a handy software to do something that is specific to electronic manufacturing industry. It's nothing major or groundbreaking. I just used it to learn WPF. But in the end it was a lot of code, and I didn't want to just give it all away.

    Naturally, I was also too cheap to pay for any external licensing software (and besides, it's all mostly junk.) So I wrote my own, using this as an excuse to learn MS Crypto API. It ended up being also pretty large, but it works well.

    I wanted to tie every license to a specific hardware, and to make licenses permanent (to that hardware.) If the hardware fails then the customer can negotiate a new code out of band. (In other words, if you ask for a new key once in every few years it's OK, but if you ask for a new key every day it's not.) This instantly closed a bunch of loopholes that relate to backup and restore. I did not want to use online licensing, though this is something I'd like to do one day, for educational purposes.

    So the software starts, and in background it collects a ton of hardware descriptors - m/b, HDD, video card, MACs of all NICs, and so on. This gets encrypted to a public key of the publisher (me) then ASCII armored and saved into a file. This becomes a license request block. User sends this file to the publisher.

    The publisher is the only person who can decrypt this block. He does so and sees a lot of hardware information. The publisher deletes unwanted hardware tokens, adds his own tokens if he wants, and then he signs the modified plaintext and encrypts it to the public key of the application. (Each software has its own key.) After ASCII armoring this becomes a license file. It is sent to the user.

    The user then starts the software. It decrypts the license file and compares those hardware tokens that the publisher elected to keep with those that are fetched from the hardware. If they match then the software runs. If not ... too bad.

    This solution has several vulnerabilities, of course, and it can be defeated by a single jump instruction - as long as you know where to insert one. That is not obvious. There are other ways to attack this system. But I did not want to build an overly complex protection scheme; my software is not that popular anyway, being very special (it's useless to anyone outside of the industry.) I just wanted to see what I can do :-)

    As it often happens, this software was built to scratch a personal itch. I'm running it myself, and all these instances are carefully licensed with proper license files. I started this software many times, and I use it pretty much every day. I had no failures (after a couple early bugs were found and fixed.)

  160. Require a key to get frequent updates. by Bangmaker · · Score: 2

    There's an application that extends usability of trackpad functions on Macbooks running Windows, called Trackpad++ (Link)

    Upon downloading for free, it is fully usable, but the owner updates the product with bugfixes and sometimes features once a week. If you don't register the product by sending the owner a donation to receive a license key, it is disabled every week (and doesn't download updates automatically). You can continue using the product, but only if you go online and download the latest version.

    This has the benefit of showing off other potential goods you have on your website, giving you free advertising, in addition to forcing users to see the "purchase" button over and over again.

    If a consumer doesn't like or need your product, it stops working, no loss. If he wants to test it a little longer, he can keep downloading it, until he decides to purchase or not. When he buys it he is guaranteed updates and a usable product.

  161. How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Offer a referral program for paying customers. $1 off until 100% off for each referral that results in a purchase.

  162. You don't deter piracy, you inspire respect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DRM is easily broken. On the other hand, there might be customers who take a look at it and go "oh, DRM? moving on". Myself being one of them. You see, the _only_ thing your "digital protection" is doing is screwing me over. Even if it's something minor, it's still an unwanted annoyance that other people - ze pirates - don't have to deal with. Simply accept that pirated copies are not lost profit, and move on to showing your potential customers how awesome your product is.

  163. Fighting The War On Piracy by SoVi3t · · Score: 1

    is as effective as the War on Drugs, Prohibition, and Theft Prevention. You will undoubtedly end up spending a significant amount of funds on something that will get defeated within a week. You will end up on the losing side.

    --
    Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
    1. Re:Fighting The War On Piracy by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      To be honest, I'd say trying to stop copyright infringement is even less effective than the war on drugs and all those other things; there are numerous ways to make yourself nearly unidentifiable (even your ip address), and it's just hard to go after so many people doing things in the comfort of their own homes in general.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  164. Visibility, Not Inaccessibility by Cruciform · · Score: 2

    Rather than creating DRM concentrate on creating a community of loyal users. Have an open beta. Reward bug reports with credits.
    Let users suggest new features in a forum. Keep up a dialog.

    DRM is much less effective than perceived value. If the consumer believes your product is worth it they will buy it.
    The ones that don't didn't intend to anyway.

  165. Share your thoughts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sorry, "share your thoughts" ? For free? How about I charge you $5-10 for my thoughts. To do otherwise would cheapen my intellectual property.

  166. Easy answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do not deter piracy. Embrace it. It's simple change of perspective that takes you step ahead of idiots trying to control internet.

  167. GPL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or pretty much any FOSS license.

  168. 2 things by smash · · Score: 2

    Make it easy for me to buy (either in store availability guaranteed, or digital download - the latter is a lot easier to achieve) and PRICE APPROPRIATELY.

    If you still have piracy, they were never going to be customers anyway (i.e., if it was too hard they wouldn't have purchased), but may encourage others to buy, by getting you free publicity.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  169. Quit thinking of it as piracy by stickyboot · · Score: 1

    Quit thinking about it like piracy, and the problem disappears. "But wait!" you say, "how will I feed my family?" Rather than discouraging piracy, you should be encouraging support from your audience. Add in a splash screen that can be disabled by the user once they paid/donated that encourages the purchace of a license, and what the support will go to. Throw your code up onto github or some other service and solicit for input from your audience, thus building a relationship with your audience, and even opening the doors for contribution in the form of code. It is far easier to give money to people who you actually have some form of relationship with. Things that don't bother people, but remind them, and encourage them to give the support you need is how you grow your body of support. Doing things to annoy people, will result in them not cooperating with you, and thus, doing things that one might consider piracy.

  170. Why deter deadbeats? by buss_error · · Score: 1

    Here's my take: If I find value in a tool, I'm quite willing to pay for it to use it.
    If I find no value in a tool, then I quit using it and delete it.
    People that use your tool but refuse to pay for it are willing to invest a lot of effort in to circumventing any kind of DRM you might wish to use.
    Consider their time and effort as a non-fungible expression of the worth of your tool. Simply take the high road and ignore them.

    For an example, see the "Audio-Grabber" project.

    At worst, limit updates to only paying users. As "haters gotta hate", deadbeat users are just another fact of life. It isn't worth worrying about them. Put your effort into pleasing those that pay you.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
  171. You forgot a fourth category by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot a fourth category: Those who will only buy the product because they hear about it by word of mouth from people who pirate it. This is a category of sales that will go away if your DRM is successful. Do you have any estimates for how big this group is? According to Blil Gates, this group is one of the big reason for Microsoft's early success, if I recall correctly.

  172. Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cost for producing each copy is 0$ and can be done by anyone. Supply is automatically the same as the demand. Artificially forced scarcity might work to stop the horrors of non-scarcity, but not completely.

    Imagine a future where everything can be replicated. Would it then be theft to let my santa clause machine print/build all my furniture, just because I don't buy it from those who demand to earn a living from building furniture?

  173. About time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's about time somebody asked.

    First, you need to respect our privacy. That means you do not collect our names, address, phone numbers, social security numbers, credit card, drivers license, email address, or require us to have an internet connection for something that should be working without it. You need to respect the fact that many of us will NEVER register anything, for our own security. If we run into some software that we pay for, but it requires any of those things, then that just motivates us all that much more, to pirate it.

    CD Key is just fine. Some people will still pirate it, but if you still have the same number of copies on the shelves, and still sell them, then it did not hurt you, and you need to realize that somebody else is likely to spread the word about your product and purchase it. Make it part of your business model.

    Second, don't release it until you are sure it is fairly stable and reliable. If you release software and we discover major bugs in the first five minutes of using it, then you did not test it very well, and you have sold a fraud and you should be criminally charged.

    Third, do NOT include any spyware, or third party packages such as toolbars. people HATE that, and it highly motivates us to pirate stuff.

    Fourth, do not install anything or make any changes to our computers unless it is absolutely unavoidable.

    Fifth, if we have direct X 12 installed, do not force install Direct X 11 over top of it. This is common sense.

    Sixth. let people decide for themselves how to pay you. Do not require a credit card, or pay pal, let them send you a money order. You will be surprised at how many people are willing to pay you in advance just to keep control of their own personal information.

    If you remember those basic rules, your software will be very well liked.

  174. Respect your customers by bug1 · · Score: 1

    If your customers respect you and the work you do then they will go out of their way to help you.

    Treat your customers like your friends.

  175. Change the way you think about it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could just simply stop counting pirates as non-paying customers and treat your real customers better.

    For example: it's nice to see that these days lack of DRM is considered a feature.

  176. First don't listen to the people who say ... by qaz123 · · Score: 1

    Don't listen to the people who say "don't bother about piracy" or "pirates will pirate it anyway". I'm saying this as an indie developer myself. But slashdot is not the right place to ask such questions. Better find a specialized forum

  177. You are asking a stupid question. by seebs · · Score: 1

    Don't ask how to deter piracy. Ask how to increase sales.

    You care about the number of sales you make. That affects you. The number of people who rip you off is totally irrelevant except as a proxy measure for sales impact -- but it's an awful measure for sales impact. If some of the people who rip you off end up buying your stuff later, or showing it to people who buy it, you might come out ahead.

    Start by clearly understanding what you want. Unless you are very petty, "maximize sales" is more important than "minimize piracy". If you have a choice between:

    1. 100 people buy your program. 0 people pirate it.
    2. 101 people buy your program. 1,000,000 people pirate it.

    The second is a better deal for you, because it's got more sales.

    Also, consider "value to people who buy it". A thing that won't screw them by failing to run under some future circumstances is worth more.

    --
    My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
  178. introduce yourself by hooiberg · · Score: 1

    You could add a picture of yourself and a couple of lines describing why you made the program to the manual (without turning it in a TLDR), so that people realise that is not some big company's clueless fatso CEO who's Mercedes they are powering by paying for the software, but just a normal programmer paying his rent/mortgage/food etc.

  179. It has worked before by utrulig · · Score: 1

    You stop it the same way you stopped people stealing car stereos; Don't sell your product at exuberant prices just because a large enough part of the customer pool is willing to pay for it for you to break even. No one steals car stereos after the chinese flooded the market with 50$ stereos. Now people will break your car window for a pack of cigarettes, but leave your stereo.

  180. If you want me as a customer... by Hrshgn · · Score: 1

    If you want me as a customer, offer a freemium version with the limited functionality (but no time limit) and a premium version with enhanced functionality. Keep the price for the premium version in a reasonable range (people are used to lower prices now with all the app stores) and make unlocking simple (register and pay on website, get a key by email. Entering the key instantly unlocks the premium features). Make a simple webpage where I can compare the two versions and give some information about yourself and your business to make me feel more emotionally involved. A blog and a forum can help as well.

  181. Uh, good service and reasonable prices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There will always be pirates. if you want to get the most out of those who choose to actually be customers and not drive them to piracy also, then have reasonable prices and good service. Offer a good demo, also. Don't lock paying customers out of doing whatever they want with the game once they have it. You will be rewarded.

  182. Sell the manual, not the software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in the day, there was a great text editor (PC-Write, I think). The disk was available at any shareware spot, and the splash screen said, "Please make copies of this disk and give it to everyone you know." The author explained in the README that his business was selling manuals, not bits. The manual was $45. And despite that, the docs that came on disk were quite good.

    He said his conversion rate was pretty good, and he made enough money to continue doing what he loved.

    Most people are honest, and if you give them something useful in such a friendly way, most of them will _reciprocate_ by sending you money.

  183. Photoshop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Adobe sells Photoshop at a price that ordinary people cannot afford. Everybody who wants to work in graphics design pirates it, as does a lot of hobbyists (they are the ones that have time to comment on every Gimp discussion on Slashdot, talking about how perfect Photoshop is, and how important CMYK is in web design).

    Because of this, everybody in the graphics business knows Photoshop best, and when they get a real job, Photoshop is what they have the company buy. Adobe is getting rich on this scheme.

    If people could not pirate Photoshop, They would learn Paint Shop Pro or The Gimp, and if these were what everybody knew, Photoshop would have a much smaller market.

    When considering DRM, remember that DRM only limits the paying customer. Cracked copies have the DRM removed, so all DRM does is show people how stupid it is to pay for software when the pirates get it that much easier. Heck, among those of us who want to stay legal, it is not unusual to buy e.g. a game, put the DVD on the shelf and download the cracked version. This even goes for serial numbers you have to enter. Paying customers need to enter this really long number, with lots of room for mistakes, before they can install the software. Keygens, on the other hand, often automatically copy the generated serial number into the correct boxes.

    You need to make people WANT to buy your software, rather than trying to force them to. Force creates resistance, and when that force only hits those who do pay, it will just push more people to piracy.

  184. I like the Redhat model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make the software free and charge for support and updates. That would be ideal.

    One time activation is OK too. Either require a CD key during the install, or e-mail your customers an activation key they'll enter when the installation is finished.

  185. My thoughts by ledow · · Score: 1

    I'm writing a one-man game at the moment. I don't imagine it will be anything more than an obscure indie game at best, but it's nice to pull out of the game programming and give thought to "what might happen" if it's popular and sells millions, and write some code for things not directly related to the game itself. I actually ENJOY planning things like that and at what point I'd have to pull in cloud servers and this and that, and how I'd get one proper "retail" boxed copy made of it, just for me, even though boxed copies are basically dead nowadays.

    As such, I've thought through things like scalable storefronts, download capacity, selling it on Steam, etc. and even things like DRM and how I'd sell it by myself.

    To be honest, it was only a side-distraction but as someone who has 500 Steam titles on their account and myriad other indie bundle games and GOG.com games, I have to say that - pretty much - my buying tastes affect my programming tastes. As I got to the point where I thought "I wouldn't tolerate that on a game I bought, especially an indie game", I stopped and did something else. Hell, I ended up recreating a Steam-like achievement system rather than code on the DRM once I thought it had gone "too far" (the fact that I made it so I can drop-in a real Steam library system with minimal changes just reflects my insane optimism!)

    My game has code for DRM. I have a single define in the code that removes all the DRM, throughout every file, check and build process, so it's literally a single switch to compile a version without any DRM or with. I honestly expect to never have to turn it on if I ever finish the game and the DRM code I have put in will languish in my SVN repos forever. But it was a fun intellectual exercise to code.

    My DRM works by embedding an X509 public key certificate into the game, and giving an X509 certificate to each user, signed by the corresponding private key (which, obviously, I keep secret and do not distribute anywhere). Users can download the game from anywhere but need their "key file" to activate it properly (which works nicely for "demo" versions too - anyone can download the same game but the key turns it into the full game). It should, thus, be impossible to fake a valid, signed key without actually changing the code of the game itself. No "keygen", as such.

    The code itself does various checks to make sure people aren't fiddling the certificates (the ones embedded into the game, or supplied to paid users), and the details on the certificates can contain things like their address or even credit card number quite easily. This, I hope, would deter the casual user from sharing their key with other users and/or present enough of an intellectual barrier that they think "Oh, I won't try to fiddle this, then". There's also a quick DNS check where I query a remote DNS server under my control which returns some custom-formatted records that tell me whether or not the underlying game key matches the one that the DNS is providing (so a primitive revocation / demand a certificate update facility).

    I don't FOR A SECOND think that any of this will stop a determined pirate. I think it will deter kids from sharing their copy of the game with their mates, or running 20 copies at home, and amateurs poking around seeing if there's a way around it. Anyone smart enough to look into the code with a debugger, or run Wireshark is going to defeat anything I do, I'm under no illusions, and the worst I can do is make it tricky for them. It's the balance of that trickiness versus the likelihood of affecting genuine users negatively that's the ultimate question.

    When I was younger, I did a bit of all levels of "hacking" programs. I pulled Desert Strike through MS-DOS's debug command and - with a copy of Ralf Brown's Interrupt List and a knowledge of x86 assembler - defeated the "must have the CD in the drive" protection. I never distributed my crack (hell, there were better ones out there already, I just didn't have an Internet connection to know about t

  186. nothing by Tom · · Score: 1

    [x] none of the above

    I've been in your shoes, releasing and selling an add-on tool for a 3D engine. My approach was no copy protection whatsoever. Instead, I offered my customers a fair deal and appealed to their good nature by offering them the same package for 4 different prices (10, 20, 30, and 50 US$). While that sounds weird, it worked. I added descriptive labels ($10 student/amateur, $20 indie, $30 big indie, $50 pro) and told them that if they don't have much money, they are free to pick the lowest price, that's totally ok.

    It turned out that half of the customers voluntarily pay more than they have to. And I'm not aware of any piracy. There's probably the odd guy who gave his copy to his friend, sure. So what?

    In the area you and I are in, piracy isn't that much of a problem, I believe. Contact is more personal, we aren't faceless corporations, and frankly, spending two hours on improving the tool will very likely do more for your bottom line than adding even a serial number check (which is also code that needs to be written, tested, etc. etc.)

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  187. My Experience by garnkelflax · · Score: 1

    I released games and applications for the Amiga in the early 90's and it helped me pay for college. One game even got on a cover disk. I think it is as true now as it was then. The games I released that had no limitiations made some money. The only thing I had to bug users was in the readme and it stated that if they liked the game they could send me whatever they thought it was worth. Sometimes I'd get 5 bucks, sometimes it would be 20. The only game I didn't make squat on had the last third of it locked down and would only work if paid for and registered. I only sold two copies of it and it was my best game.

    The other thing that was cool was the letters I would get for the games and apps from countries outside the US. People would go to the trouble of converting local currency to US bills, write a letter that was obviously composed by using a 'some language' to English dictionary and tell me about how their kid or wife or husband had been playing the game all days and nights so money for you should have to make better life.

    I'm sure tens of thousands of people played the games or used the apps. Hundreds paid for the 'pay whatever you want' software. If I were to go back I would have had more to offer on all of it and approached it as additional features instead of punitive.

  188. Human Aspect by SoulNibbler · · Score: 1

    I've been in an out of the piracy game since irc times but there was one approach that really worked for me.
    The author of Lux (a java based Risk game) had a nice system for detering privacy:
    1st: The game was free to play for 10-20 times and then it required registration (simple key code)
    2nd: The author had set up a website so when you searched google: lux warez, serialz, serial, keygen, his website was the first site you got to where he asked crackers to respect his tiny cottage industry (I think it was 5-15$ for a lifetime key), and at the same time pointed out to users that by stealing his software they were poisoning his part of the ecosystem.

    It seemed to work. I never found keys to the software (this was 6-7 years ago), and we didn't pirate that piece of software. I stopped looking for keys after I'd read his page and that was the important part.

    On the other hand I have very little problem pirating professional software to play around with 3DStudio and Photoshop, however once I got into photography (and had spent much more than the cost of software on gear) I've had to change my approach. I pay for my Raw software (Capture One Pro) and I use gimp or open source tools instead of PS. Sometimes I want to dick around with CAE software and I have no problem pirating that since I'm interested in demo-ing it and not using it as a tool in my business. I think reminding users what they would be paying for (its your time not the tool) is the best approach.

  189. A new feature every week by BlueCoder · · Score: 1

    The more popular it is the more legitimate sales you have. But without a doubt it will be cracked within a week if it's popular. And never underestimate how pirates, at least in the beginning, for an unknown publisher, actually promote your game for you.

    So your best bet is to update the software with token features or items every week and keep it fresh. Those that really find your software worthwhile will pony up just to have the updates ASAP.

  190. Eric Cartman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just put Eric Cartman on a plane to Somalia, and your piracy problems are solved!

  191. Make a Demo with a nag-Window (every 10 Minutes) by unami · · Score: 1

    asking customers politely to buy the software after trying, providing an unlock-code for those who do, or limit your demo in an insignificant - but in the long run: annoying - way. (e.g., disable drag 'n drop - import). don't use any copy-protection. this way customers can try your product, but will get annoyed by the friendly "buy me"-pop-up if they like it and use it on a regular basis. pirates on the other hand probably won't bother removing only the pop-up/slight limitation if the product is otherwise fully functional.

  192. Publish your source code and binaries by progician · · Score: 1

    You could just simply publish your source code with your binaries with a free software license. Announce a donation scheme that would classify donors as customers and deal with their complaints and feature requests. If you product is really useful, people would copy it and use it, whether you like it or not. But getting new features means work for you, and if there are people who really want to use those features, they would pay for them.

  193. Piracy is not the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem is, how can you make money off of your software? Piracy is not a problem, it's a fact that you need to get used to. It's what humans do and always have been doing.

  194. Simpler Solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a Simpler Solution. Charge a reasonable price that everyone can afford and I bet piracy won't be a problem. However, if you think your 25 lines of code are worth $100,000+ per person, then you deserve to be ripped-off.

  195. Very realistic way and provides incentive to pay.. by kualla · · Score: 1

    I saw a site develop basic functioning software and then selling it with details of future updates when $X amount was reached. The main product was useful to get people to purchase just for the initial software, but the updates were very tempting to be had. This way the company can also contract work when funds become available and then need less initial investment as well. Genius idea if you ask me! Plus have updates require downloads which would then have a new encryption to be paired with. The verified and working serials can also limit duplicate redownloads, so if a pirated copy gets out, it gets blacklisted quick and stops updates from being performed. To take it even one step further, you could put an encrypted piece of code that fails after a certain flag or starts to degrade in quality. But in all reality, it is truly a cat and mouse game. As long as someone tries hard enough, they will reverse engineer the software. A second option I thought of after writing the above... Instead of selling software that users can download onto their computer, put it in the cloud. You could have the application be hosted on your own servers(software developer), and have a VNC style interface where you can only use the functionality of the program thru a web interface but not have access to the actual files for the applications. For dealing with large files, this could currently be a major pain, especially dealing with HD video. Another downside could be that you would need to host servers and if your application is processor intensive, you would need the horse power to run these which might add substantial costs. Another major downside of copy protection; if you have great software with good copy protection that is costing the consumers a good chunk of change, someone else can just see your work and copy. They then release it at a cheaper price without ever needing to design, only write the code. So balancing your software's price to deter this from happening should be considered. Probably part of the reason prices on new released software is expensive then usually falls shortly afterwards.

  196. Old days of DOS by IWantMoreSpamPlease · · Score: 1

    AutoCAD was very expensive and you needed a dongle to run the software. No dongle, software won't run.

    Hard to pirate around that.
    Not impossible. But hard.

    --
    So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
  197. Software is why people buy Apple hardware by tepples · · Score: 1

    unless you're talking so far back that people didn't really think of software so much as the product as the reason people bought your hardware

    How is that not still true of Macs and iDevices and to a lesser extent Nintendo game consoles?

  198. Here is how: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ok.. I am a (kind of) graphics designer myself. What I mean by that, is that I'm more of a video guy, but for that, I need to make graphics.. also I do other stuff, like web design. I'm also a gamer.. and a pirate. So you want my money do you? Here is how you'll get it:

    1) Make something good (this seems obvious.. but as they say, common sense isn't so common. Remember GI Joe - the movie? Yea....)

    2) Offer a full, time based trial (expires in 3 months). Depending on your software / plug-in, there may not be enough time in a single month to test out the features / uses for it. Most of my single projects themselves take at least a month.

    3) Keep the price point to what the software offers. The features should = the cost. For example, if you make a plug-in that gives a radial blur effect to a picture (isn't that built into.. every single graphic design package?).. don't sell it for $500.

    4) Activatation via online. Yes, this is DRM.. so what? If you're a serious designer, you shouldn't give 2 cents about having to activate your software. It also makes it easier for your customers (rather than having them re-install a full version or replace files).

    5) If you want to go really sweet, offer what Fraps does.. free upgrades for life. Even major releases. I heard about Fraps.. I pirated Fraps.. I said, wow, this is a nice program.. and I went to the website. "It's only $25(?) bucks?!?" I clicked on Purchase and bought it.

    In short.. don't make it over-priced, make it a reasonable purchase. Give it great features. Make it easy for users to install, activate, register, use. Offer a trial of the full release so people can see how to use it. That is how you'll get a Pirate's money.

    My captcha is villains... rofl.

  199. What Is a Reasonable Way To Deter Piracy? by rossdee · · Score: 1

    Long range missile armed drones flying over that part of the Indian ocean off east africa to sink their shios.
    A Predator is probably too small, you could modify a P3 Orion to do the job, Or use a Global Hawk to spot them and smaller drones operating from a carrier...

  200. Look At History by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    History tells us that the only effective way to deal with piracy is to deploy an armada of ships to patrol and defend against pirates. Combined with the death penalty for those caught doing acts of piracy, it should only take a decade or two to eliminate piracy from the high seas, once again.

  201. a suggestion i didn't see. by thoper · · Score: 1

    Many suggested an easy way to pay, so put in the apple store and play store an 5$ app that gives the registration number based in the identity of the buyer.

    This has several advantages, easy to pay, ubiquitous, trusty, and if the buyer loses the key, he can always re-download the app you already purchased.

    Host yourself the app and dont ask for any info for the download,

  202. Easy.. by ex01 · · Score: 1

    Deter privacy is easy: make a really good product that people want to pay for.

    No DRM, no online activation, no nonsense.

    If it's worth having, people will pay for it.

    Yes, some people will pirate it: only the MAFIAA is stupid enough to think that those people are lost sales. They're marketing opportunities. They wouldn't have bought your product anyway, but if you have a great product that they pirate, they might tell their friends.

  203. Use Rootkit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just kidding. But seriously, watermark the image, but only during the most expensive portion of processing, or above a certain size of image, so that it is costly to determine if it actually _has_ been cracked. Use code obfuscation. And place the validation in unlikely routines.

  204. Low price, no DRM by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Destroy the incentive to pirate with a low price and no DRM. You've already got the low price part done right.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Low price, no DRM by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that it should be easy for potential customers to buy it. I don't think a guy making a small piece of software would do this, but there's that region-locking nonsense that game development companies seem to be fond of.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  205. Listen to some Phi-Lars-ophy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's another indie-developer's thought on the matter:
    Phi-Lars-ophy: SimCity vs. Piracy & The 4 Currencies

    Certainly something to think about.

  206. Balancing Revenue with Success by moorley · · Score: 1

    This depends on what view you want to take. If you want to view piracy is wrong and immoral then you do whatever you feel best.

    If instead you want to view this as a transaction in which you have made something for which you are looking to get compensation to provide more benefit.

    I state this to focus on the goal. You have made a product which you are charging a modest fee for ($5-$10). You want to maximize the amount of folks who use the tool and will pay you that compensation. So focus on the following:

    Positive means more than negative. (We grouse at taxes but fail to realize the benefits and large penalties without the system it supports. Communicate your benefts)

    Folks will pay what they can pay. Preventing piracy is an all or nothing proposition, it's a deterence. Through negative consequences you are seeking to provide incentives to pay for your product. Put yourself in your custom shoes, would you (the customer) really want to reward a bad actor (you the business) by giving them money if they make it more difficult to get what they have paid for?

    My recommendations based on the above is a tiered payment structure.
    Tier 1 - Basic tool, cheap.
    Tier 2 - Additional features (avoid crippleware or nag ware just have a low cost and premium version). Focus on money vs. time as they will in making the choice.
    Tier 3 - Support Manuals and forum access
    Tier 4 - Premium cost for premium value.

    A tiered support structure (without DRM, just more benefit for more money) will allow you to maximize your profit by providing incentives for folks to pay the most they can. Folks with more money than time will seek the higher tiers as long as you construct it effectively. Bundling multiple tools is a good way to add value for higher buy-in as well.

    This is how grocery stores and boutiques do it. Focus on the value you are providing at the appropriate monetary level they are willing to pay.

    TLDR; No DRM. Tiered pricing to take effect of what folks can pay based on their own time vs. money assessments. DRM is a stick. Look for a carrot.

    --
    "Don't fear death... fear not living..." -me :)
  207. Don't under estimate paranoia by NewWorldDan · · Score: 1

    Have the app phone home at startup to nominally check for new versions. Any serial number that checks in from more than a dozen different IPs in a day can be presumed to be pirated. Give them a little nag screen that says, "$10 to register this program is a lot cheaper than a $5000 copyright infringement lawsuit. Don't be a dick, this is how I feed my family."

    The goal, of course, is to have your software widely used and then convert as many pirates into paying customers as possible.

  208. Re:Asking the wrong crowd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hilarious that this got modded down. All of these actually got posted and modded up as serious suggestions.

  209. Offer paid users technical support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Offer paid users technical support. Paying to have quality support and people is more valuable than the software itself.

  210. reasonable price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i think alot of software developers value their work a little more than the market does.

  211. The more you fight - the more you lose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just my opinion, but if someone isn't going to pay, they never were in the first place.

    The only effective method would be some kind of notice that is either displayed on startup or easily accessible that reads:

    "Hi, I hope you enjoy this application. It was the product of many hours of work and refinement. If you aren't able to compensate us, please suggest this application to someone who can. If you've contributed to us, we thank you and hope you have many hours of enjoyment."

    Don't be antagonistic, let the network effect of piracy work for you - not against you. Most apps that have heavy DRM are cracked, distributed and the creators ridiculed, because the pirates know nothing is 100% effective. To pretend it is means you have no idea how digital technologies work.

    So, suggest they tell someone who has that nice income about your app instead, or that typical user that just pays their way no matter what. Forget those that won't, because they never will.

  212. As a consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I say Don't cripple the product, don't include any form of DRM or copy protection. Make the utility worth the price, make it easy to get, pay for, install, and use. As others have said here, some will violate copyright to get what they want for free no matter what. As others have stated here, worry more about marketing your program.

  213. Don't by gabereiser · · Score: 1

    Instead focus on making your app so valuable as a graphic utility that people *need* it. Then price it low so that you can make revenue but not BP style revenue. I've done this a lot and always found people who really *really* like your software are willing to pay for it, when they find out it's $10 or so then it becomes a no brainer and they buy it. Pirates will pirate no matter how deep down the DRM rabbit hole you go. The only thing you can do to stop it is embrace it. A good way to do this is make your software able to detect if it's valid or not (via CD key or something as mentioned a hundred times already) and if the same key was used more than 5 times from more than 3 computers, it was pirated. In which case your action should not be to batten down the hatches and make it restrictive, but rather, offer a discount on the purchase and provide those pirates an easy "no repercussions" purchase path. A 50% discount would get you a lot of money that otherwise would have been lost to pirates. Just a thought and is how most "indie" developers see pirates anyway, as free advertising. Sure there will still be people who don't pay, but by providing them an easy path to purchase for a discount to make their copy *legit*, you'll find if the price is right that people would flock to it.

  214. Use Intel's Core processor crypto capabilities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use Intel's Core processor crypto capabilities to protect digital content. It is called IPT (Identity Protection Technology). There are about 5 companies in the world that can deploy to you one solution that use this kind of feature. Basicaly, since SandyBridge there is a hardware based way to sign and certify machines for a given purpose. This is possible due a hardware implementation of EPID (Enhaced Privacy ID). Take a look is a cool and fine solution.

  215. Wrong question by scamper_22 · · Score: 1

    The right question is how do I make money.

    What you need to do is list your potential pool of customers and then see how you can make money from them.

    Hobbyist and College kids toying with graphics:
    They're not going to pay. Accept it as a reality. They will hack your tool if you try. At best, use them as means to make your tool popular. Some might buy it, but most won't.

    Large graphic shop:
    They will pay as long as it is illegal to use it otherwise. So don't release your product for 'free'. If you want, have a free version for non-commerical use and emphasize it in the tool that if it is used in a commercial setting, they must pay. Alternatively, have a simple serial number thing. It adds more authenticity to the agreement where you are purchasing licenses :P The lawyers will make sure a legit copy is made. I've worked for numerous software companies and the large ones have a team of lawyers running around. Now, a lot of the time people do use random software, but more often than not, the company will buy licenses. Really whats $10-$20 expensed for the company? I don't know what kind of deal my company makes with them, but we have legitimate versions of many pieces of 'shareware' products.

    Small to medium Graphic Shop:
    These may pay and some may not. What can you do to help bring them over to the paying side?
    1. Make it easy to pay. Sign up for a reputable app delivery service. easy for the smart phone market. Harder on a pc.

  216. Easy. Pay me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pay me, and I won't pirate.

  217. Reasonable Price by sudon't · · Score: 1
    The thing that gets me to pay is simply a reasonable price, and knowing I'll only have to pay once. You are well within that range. Having a serial number reminds me that it's not freeware. I would certainly give a long trial period, though. The one thing that does get me to launch Serial Box is an app who's features I can't try, or which prevents you from saving your work to disk. And once the serial's been input, I tend to forget about it. Give full function for a good number of uses, or launches.

    Another thing that often happens to me is I'll download and install an app, play with it a bit, or just look at the menus, and forget about it for a couple of weeks. Then when I come back to it, even though I've only opened it once, the trial period is over. And if I'm now ready to check the app out, the fastest and easiest thing to do is paste in the serial.

    Some people will never pay, and there's no sense making it difficult to get around the DRM. It's been tried, and always fails. But a good app at a reasonable price will sell. Take note, Adobe!

    --
    -- sudon't

    Air-ride Equipped

  218. The best antipiracy solution I've seen is... by CaptainAdultt · · Score: 0

    A registered executable that uses a basic serial. Have each downloader register and give them a slightly modified exe with its own md5 tied to their serial. If it doesn't match, have it work perfectly, but then after a week and a half have it disable itself and tell them to stop being a thieving pirate punk. Use your own time source so the crackers wont be able to just set their clock forward to see if their crack was successful.

  219. Lease It Out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't sell the utility, lease it. Turn it into a web application and lease it out. Charge a fraction of the full price, like any lease. Over time you'll make more if it is a useful utility. Think how much more Microsoft would have made if they leased MS Office. I think this is the direction that MS Office 360 is going.

  220. Piracy has ONE CAUSE ONLY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Piracy is ONLY caused by over-pricing (in direct pricing combined with barriers to delivery/use) what you are selling compared to the value buyer see it delivering.

    Look at ANY black market that exist and you will always see this as the central factor. That includes cases where a government decides to "prevent" you from using something: they effectively raise the price of obtaining what someone wants and immediately creates a black market if the demand is there for the value but the only way to get it *at market value* is by substitutes or piracy.

    This is the lesson of the RIAA pricing of albums vs. the iTunes store, for example. This is the lesson of the WoD. This is the lesson of MS Windows/Office piracy and declining official adoption. The list is endless.

  221. Affordability by francesccrow · · Score: 1

    Why steal when you can borrow? If you offer an avenue for people to acquire your product and pay what they can until they've bought it theft from necessity will be, well, unnecessary.

  222. DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try Tegotech Software. They have a DRM that is friendly for paying customers.

  223. Re:life-long updates' ditto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The fools in the USA are politicians and/or clueless with money, often from the USA inbreed aristocracy.

    Like you I am well off and help where I can. I am 60+ USMC@17yo1968. Most of US are not fools, and we damn-it we don't lynch multi-term politicians.

  224. Piracy exists when you deserve to be pirated... by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

    It's that simple. Make your business model and services and support so bullet proof and customer-oriented that piracy is pointless, and you won't have a problem with piracy.

    Arguments that piracy is a popularity tax, piracy is just the cost of doing business, piracy is an inevitability, all these arguments are only a partial consideration.

    Yes, SOME things will always have a degree of piracy, that's a given. Work with it, since it's a fact of life. Instead of making your product something that people feel morally compelled to pirate, create a product and service and support model that's comprehensive and unique enough that piracy of it is pointless. In other words, sell a product that isn't just a one dimensional product. Sell a product that has a future, that purchasing includes so many perks and so many benefits that only an idiot would pirate it.

    You know, a modern business model that incorporates the best of the things of the past, like excellent customer service, reliability, genuine product support, and innovation.

    This, as opposed to something shiny and destined to be completely obsolete within months/a year.

  225. I hope you read this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The 10% of pirates you will NEVER stop. Don't spend time or money trying.

    The other 90% need access to your product in way that is useful to them. NOT YOU.

    As well, they will tell you the value your product. NOT YOU.

    A product that is delivered in a customer friendly way and is the value the market supports will not run into wide spread piracy.

    Conversely, if you limit delivery and over charge expect rampant piracy.

  226. Ads by chris.evans · · Score: 1

    Display ads for the free version and take away the ads and add features for the non free version any other tricks will only inconvenience the legitiment user

  227. Reasonable Prices. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If an application is good quality and inexpensive, more people will buy it rather than going through the hassle of pirating it.

    A lot of good programs are priced so ridiculously high that it coasts an arm and a leg to buy...oh, EXSQUEEZE ME..."license"
    them. Next thing you know, the manufacturer turns around and comes out with an update ("Oh, it's a whole NEW version!")
    and you have to hock your kids to "license" that.

    It it's priced reasonably in the first place, more people will buy it to begin with and won't balk at upgrades so much. And if you
    have 10,000 buying your product at $700 ($7,000,000) as opposed to 250,000 buying your product at $150 ($37,000,000), the
    cost reduction more than pays for itself.

    But then I live in a make believe world...

  228. It's simple. No, really. by Jawnn · · Score: 1

    Price your stuff so it' not worth the hassle to pirate it.

    Audio and video files? Your distribution costs are close to zero these days. Let your prices reflect that and watch your volume explode. Put down the buggy whip, already.
    Software? That's a bit of a different story. Depending on the work, it's much more expensive to produce, though the distribution expense is here also trivial. Sell the current version of AutoWord-DB-Pro for what you think is fair. Sell the older one's for cheap. Dirt cheap. The people who actually need the latest and greatest features will gladly pay, the rest will pay for the older version and maybe even become paying customers of your current one. Meanwhile, you're still capturing revenue from your old versions.

    Start thinking in terms of total revenue, not how much "a copy" is worth. You are not losing sale when someone pirates a $400 program. You most certainly are losing a sale when you don't sell a $20 program that would have met the pirate's needs and for which he would have paid.

  229. Use STEAM by CaptainPinko · · Score: 1

    That'll encourage me to buy and will take care of the DRM bit.

    --
    Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
  230. server side functionality by Njovich · · Score: 1

    Have at least part of the functionality be implemented on the server and require a login.

    It's simple, and the only thing that so far has shown to be a real detterent to hackers.

  231. let me get hooked by thinsoldier · · Score: 1

    I have no advice for the game industry. But for a utility for graphic designers my suggestion would be to let me demo the software. Not for a limited amount of times but for a limited number of uses. I recently got a demo for a drawing application. It's limited to 30 days. I only sometimes need to draw anything. So in the next 30 days I'll maybe only have 4 real reasons to open it and will make time to play around with it in my spare time maybe 3 times max. But if I were given a limit of say 100 chances to run the program within a time limit of 9 months, that would definitely give me enough time to really evaluate, utilize, and possibly become dependant upon the software.

  232. Minecraft method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The piracy prevention in Minecraft was really effective IMO. When playing without verifying your account, the words 'unlicensed copy :(' appeared in the upper left corner of the game. Also, automatic updates stopped.

    This got them at least two extra sales as I got a temporary account as part of a different game I got, I played for a while, thought it was nice, but when my time ran out, I wasn't really sold. However, when I found I could still play the next day, I decided to keep playing and then I got immersed. Then came the updates, I couldn't get them, I didn't feel right taking them. So when I felt that I owed them the $25 for how much I had already played, I ordered the game (I did try earlier, but their billing service wouldn't take my money for some reason). Then a while later my wife got an account so we could play together.

    All of this, because the DRM was so light as to not matter except to remind me that I still hadn't paid for it. I don't doubt that this worked for many other people, nor that it didn't work for many others (who would take anything they could get), but Notch's philosophy was to concentrate on the honest people. Seems to have worked for them.

  233. Here is my list by ThePhilips · · Score: 1

    A simple serial number? Online activation? Encrypted binaries? Please share your thoughts.

    Serial number user needs anyway - for support and such. (Or you provide no support?)

    Allow users to run it in "demo" mode, until the serial is entered. Demo means:
    - Couple of weeks of interrupted work with the program. (Best of all of you would actually count the time the program is actually used.)
    - After the time has passed, once per day (or once per N uses per day) a polite reminder that the user should buy it, since well, develop has to feed his family. Politeness is important!
    - If you are really really against the freeloaders, as time goes increase number of reminders.

    Do encrypted/compressed binaries, if you can do it on the cheap/for free. Not really a deterrent to a pro, but just to prevent trivial tinkering. I have had cracked (and debugged) some programs (in the MSDOS/Win95 past) with a plain hex editor. :)

    Overall, treat potential customers with respect and politeness. Do not annoy or eliminate - but remind to pay money.

    --
    All hope abandon ye who enter here.
  234. The right way... by XStylus · · Score: 1

    ...is to release it under GPL.

  235. Don't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It DOES NOT MATTER who pirates your stuff.

    NOT ONE JOT.

    All that matters is who pays for it.

    If number of people buying x cost of item > costs of production including wages then it DOES NOT MATTER if the entire universe pirated it. You've been paid.

    If 2 people pirated and 1000 people bought Sim City, it would flop. Despite a TINY proportion pirating.

    If 2,000,000,000 pirated and 10,000,000 bought Sim City, it has broken all records. Despite a MASSIVE piracy rate.

  236. The perfect incentive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's easy. Set a trial period; once it expires, change every font to Comic Sans.

  237. EASY WAY TO ELIMINATE PIRACY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gosgog:

    Now the CIA is going in for Big Data! (read the article in today's business insider) So as we are all identifiable because of their ability to track anyone by cell phone (on or off, or even borrowed) and by the way each of us walks....THEN ASSISINATE 'THE PIRATE by DRONE ATTACK...HA! ha! After all, thanks to Obama & Bush et.al., there's no record of the act afterwards!!

  238. Work on Commission, like everyone did before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Work on commission. If there is no one willing to pay you for the work, why would they pay you for a product with an infinite supply?

  239. Re:life-long updates' ditto by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    I hear what you're saying old man, some of my favorite people are Americans. ;)

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  240. Know your audience by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    This is Slashdot. Most of the people here will say there is no reasonable way to deter piracy. Many will believe you are wrong for trying to guarantee you make money from your effort solely because your effort is in the digital realm and "information wants to be free!"

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  241. original poster here by tacokill · · Score: 1

    Yes, 30 cards. And again, in case you missed it, the cost to me personally was ZERO, other than a small bit of time.

    Not insane. Just a side effect of having many credit cards and spending lots of money both personally and for business. My credit history goes back 20+ years as well so again, this is not as unusual as you make it out to be. Cards get nicked all the time through no fault of the user. I buy a lot of goods online and logic would tell you that some of those vendors will eventually be hacked and give up the ghost.

    If you have a problem with my "zero cost", then take it up with the fucking banks that issue the credit cards. That part isn't my problem Mr Iwantyoutopay. I don't give a flying fuck about YOUR interest rate or YOUR fees. Why on god's green earth would I care about your issues with fees and interest rates?

    1. Re:original poster here by jasen666 · · Score: 1

      I'm not Mr Iwantyoutopay.
      I am Mr Takeresponsiblityforyourdamnselfasshole.
      The irresponsibility you and others like you exhibit costs merchants millions of dollars. Since you see no direct loss, you don't give a shit, and through negligent action may as well just hand your cards over to identity thieves and take a kickback from them.

    2. Re:original poster here by tacokill · · Score: 1

      The costs are not mine to bear. Take it up with the banks, who make the rules. They are the rulemakers, not me.

      I don't understand what is irresponsible about my position. The banks who offer credit are the ones who do not hold cardholders responsible. They have good reasons for finding that balance but again -- not my problem.

      If the banks held their customers accountable for fraudulaunt charges when a card is nicked......then I probably wouldn't have any credit cards.

      See how that works? They make the rules and I respond accordingly. I always retain the right not to play. It's rather simple, really, so your outrage is misplaced.

  242. Make it quality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make a quality product with no copy protection (a serial number for those honest folk). Honestly, the least pirated products are those with the least protection on it. I downloaded Anno 1404. Played the hell out of the game. After playing it for about 6 months, I gave the producers my money. Same thing with Mount & Blade, and a few other indie programs. Downloaded, played the hell out of them, then paid because it was worth it.
    Others, by big publishers, I downloaded, played for a while then turfed. Not worth my money.

  243. Turn it into a web based app. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try to turn your app a la SalesForce, or Google Docs, or something like that.
    A Web-Only app is the way to go.
    Please understand that this is different from what SimCity did. They had a binary that connected to a server.
    What Im proposing is that your app is a simple JavaScript that connects to a server that performs all the work in the background.
    Service is the way to go.

  244. Paycheck to paycheck is not middle class. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps this is one of our problems.

  245. You're not sharing something. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if you had $3,000 in charges on your credit card account, why the hell would this make you late on anything else? Minimum payment on the card while the thing is sorted, and what's the worst then, perhaps you won't go to a movie?

    Don't get me wrong, I believe you when you say it took 110 hours to get fixed and that is $1,540 damage to you. But the idea that $3,000 on the card would make you late on your house payment? Bullshit.