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GNOME 3.8 Released Featuring New "Classic" Mode
Hot on the heels of the Gtk+ 3.8 release comes GNOME 3.8. There are a few general UI improvements, but the highlight for many is the new Classic mode that replaces fallback. Instead of using code based on the old GNOME panel, Classic emulates the feel of GNOME 2 through Shell extensions (just like Linux Mint's Cinnamon interface). From the release notes: "Classic mode is a new feature for those people who prefer a more traditional desktop experience. Built entirely from GNOME 3 technologies, it adds a number of features such as an application menu, a places menu and a window switcher along the bottom of the screen. Each of these features can be used individually or in combination with other GNOME extensions."
...and did something about it that didn't ruin their code base.
Kudos Gnome Team.
I kinda like the KDE they forced me to try with their second-to-latest abortion, but I'll give Gnome 3.8 a try.
I tried Cinnamon on Mint 14.1 and found it to be freezing frequently when changes to it were made. Not ready for prime time IMO and back to Ubuntu 12.10. Unity isn't perfect, but it just works.
Personally, I wonder if there are any use metrics for Gnome3's default mode, vs running on fallback/classic.
Personally, I can't stand either Unity or Gnome3-standard modes. One of the first things I do with Ubuntu boxes is nuke LightDM and Unity from orbit, and replace them with something less resembling a botched ST:NG computer interface. I actually happen to LIKE menus. That Gnome has listened to the sound of angry feet stampeding to XCFE and KDE over the issue makes me happier, but still displeased over the "No, we don't do it that way anymore, nanaananananannaa" mantra they were using for so long previously.
You're like an Ubuntu user that shuns Debian.
Moved on, XFCE and it's at least replaced all uses for what Gnome was doing for me. Instead of creating a rich unified DE for all to use (with small enhancements and extensions), they flushed down all their good will in re-inventing something that many/most? of their community didn't seem to want.
I wish you well, but this is one ship I simply refuse to sail on (In the same likes as Windows 8 and unity alas).
Bye!
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A non-Ubuntu distro with XFCE or an Openbox (Crunchbang Linux) environment keeps me hard and satisfied!
And as for KDE, I always feel like I have a beach ball in my rectum when using it. Fun for some, not for me.
When I realized they took away my minimize button I damn sure needed some free beer
"He's using a quantum encryption scheme! That'll take hours to break!"
Wait, wait, wait... wait, just wait... I thought the world DIDN'T end in 2012 like those crazy Maya believers said. The gnome team listening to feedback... wow what's next, no wait don't tell me. Microsoft will realize the folly of Windowz 8 in time to 'add' a feature in Windowz 9 SP1 that'll make the IT industry happy again. There it is, you heard it first here kiddies!
It is so frustrating to fire up a new install of "linux" and have all the important parts of the OS hidden away from access, requiring more than a couple of clicks to get to or even requiring you to open a Search Dialog and search for the app that you want.
UI designers should really take notice of the reception things like Windows 8 and Gnome 3 and Unity have been getting lately. Remember that most business is still done with a mouse and keyboard at least.
Over at datamation.com they have two reviews worth reading. One general review on GNOME 3.8 and a separate review on the all new GNOME Classic.
I tried Cinnamon on Mint 14.1 and found it to be freezing frequently
Very little I install on my computer does not just work. I don't mind Unity, and prefer it to Gnome shell but Cinnamon has been an incredible project. I am more than happy to provide you with a working video of my desktop :) I suspect your overstating the position. BTW you can install cinnamon on Ubuntu.
Oh no! Let's fork 3.7 and make sure that no one returns to the look'n'feel of the good old 2.x.
Hear, hear!
'Impossible' is a word that humans use far too often. -- Seven of Nine
...no need for Gnome 3.8 now that Elementary OS is coming along so nicely. It tends to be forgotten around here as an alternative, so I thought I'd mention it.
They keep breaking keyboard switching every release. Here's the story in 3.6:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681685
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684210
(If you read the comments, you'll see the usual attitude of Gnome devs - bilingual users who actually use this functionality are telling them that it's been broken, while devs who don't really use it but own it reply by coming up with invented reasons as to why the new behavior is the right thing, and everyone else should just shut up and learn it.)
You'd think they would pay more attention to this area in the new release, but apparently they have emasculated (the official press release calls it "simplified", in the usual Gnome bullshit-speak) it even further in 3.8, and there are bugs reported about erratic behavior of the new switcher. All that because XKB is, apparently, not good enough anymore.
With this kind of attitude towards their users (of which the above is but a single example), how come they still have any?
Who cares anymore? Gnome 3 could have special in a good way but instead it was special in an OMG way. They had a chance and blew it. If they had eaten their crow warm the situation could have been salvaged but now half their user base has abandoned them and the other half has become divided. It's going to be hard for them to maintain a critical mass in the long term.
Ubuntu has a similar problem but not so pronounced. I'm typing this on a Kubuntu computer and I have no complaints with it. I've tried Unity twice and rejected it both times, once because it was ugly and once because it was unusable. Ubuntu is bigger than Unity though while Gnome can't be bigger than Gnome.
I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/08/gnome-founder-says-desktop-linux-is-dead
I guess this guy could be considered an expert on the subject!
One of the things in Gnome 2 that I rely on every day is the fact that in the pager applet, I can see the outlines of the windows on that desktop, and if the app is big enough, it's icon. This is invaluable feedback to me. I can tell at a glance where things are if I should forget. I typically never alter my desktops use, but it's nice to be able to see this. Cinnamon fails completely in this regard. It's pager is nothing but a dark square to identify which desktop I'm on. It gives no feed back other than this and may as well be just a number, which the screen shot of the new classic mode appears to do.
If either Gnome classic or Cinnamon could do this one small thing, I'm ready to switch. Until then, It's still Mate for me. That and I really like the way I have compiz set up with Mate.
You know there is 'gnote' which is a non-mono version of Tomboy, right?
Why don't you go to extensions.gnome.org and see if there is something suitable?
Same here. Xfce is mature, and everything just works. I don't have time to beta-test in my everyday work.
It's still impossible to do very essential things in GNOME Classic, such as moving the panels around or fully configuring them. So, in many ways GNOME 3 hasn't reached feature parity with GNOME 2 or Xfce.
That said, it's really nice to see GNOME listening to users. An especially important part of GNOME 3.8, in my view, is that more options were added to the settings rather than removing them. This shows that the team really is trying to stabilize the core before adding more features, which is really the right way to go about things. I think in a few years GNOME 3 will be a great desktop, suitable for various work styles.
You know there is 'gnote' which is a non-mono version of Tomboy, right?
I did know about gnote, but its only advantage would be not using Mono, in every other way its a disadvantage. Gnote is not standard; lags being tomboy development...and those things are more important to me than keeping Mono dependencies around. Hell I used to to love banshee before they tried to turn it from a music application to a Multimedia(sic) application, I've moved to Clementine since http://www.clementine-player.org/ its wonderful. The reality is Bijiben(Gnome Notes) looks to have none of the disadvantages, and perhaps a few advantages over tomboy [removing Mono is a bonus].
It's going to be hard for them to maintain a critical mass in the long term.
Gnome is no worse off today that KDE was after KDE 4. United Linux with the big pro KDE players was dead, KDE was a disaster or most distributions and even long term supporters like Mandrake were becoming supportive of Gnome. Gnome was the standard and KDE was grouped with XFCE and later LXDE as one of the 2nd string GUIs. They recovered.
Yes a good pager is the most important part of a real desktop. You can get something vaguely like that with shell extensions, but you really feel like fighting gnome shell rather than using it, it's so hard to configure it feels like a desktop from the 90s, I'm not even joking, with gnome 2 you could easily create panels, move them around to your liking. gnome shell is so hard to configure, with this weird website that you are almost forced to use to add extensions, see which ones are installed, or to configure them. To change _anything_ you have to find an extension, even to change the date format, and I actually couldn't find one that did what I want, is that so weird to want a date that include the month ? And is that so hard to let the user enter a date format ?
I'm still using the real classic mode of gnome 3, but with my next upgrade I'll finally leave gnome (been using it since before 1.0), maybe mate, maybe xfce, maybe enlightenment. But something with a good pager.
I use lots of desktops sorted in 3 columns, so that I can organize my windows spacially, that way I always remember were I put the window I want, and can switch to it in 1 very short click, there's no way I could do that with gnome shell (and I tried a lot of extensions a few months ago).
Why should he have to go hunt for something that was a standard feature since about 1995?
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
That's not quite fair. Cinnamon and Gnome forked off in two different directions with different UI philosophies. It's perfectly valid to praise one over the other, as they are two different projects now.
I'm glad Gnome has wised up and brought 'classic mode' back. I know that there's an expectation that you have to keep changing things in order to have a sense of progress, but there's a problem when you break traditional desktop metaphors that have really stood the test of time at this point. If you want progress, keep adding customization, so anyone can optimize their desktop to maximize their own workflow. I wanna make my environment look like Windows? Sure. Mac? OK. Unity? Fine.
That's one of the things I love about Android - all those crazy custom launchers that let you tailor your setup to your own preference.
Unity and Gnome 3 (before this release anyway) took away features and customization in the name of 'simplicity'.
The chance seem to be very small, but without that Wheezy will look like a old duck with his Gnome 3.4 when it will be released.
I hope that the Debian team will be cleaver enough to understand the advantage of providing a good classic desktop experience for people that will upgrade from Squeeze to Wheezy (I have tried Gnome 3.x and Unity and found them unproductive).
What an idea! Of course I have already done that and didn't find anything. The search function didn't return anything, and I wasn't going to go through 37 pages manually. So I gave up. You talk as if you have some knowledge that I don't; perhaps you could enlighten me.
More like "regression mode," am I right?
Xfce is only mature in age. It's missing virtually all of the features everyone expects in a manager. Icon placement only in grids? No real way to resize those grids without a text editor? No desktop sorting? I could add to this paragraph all day.
Do yourselves a favor, don't even waste your time on xfce.
look != functionality.
Actually I use Linux specifically because there is very few things I have to go out and download and modify to get it to do the things I want. Unlike the Windows and Mac environments where the "Just works" motto is limited to it's very narrow view of things included with the OS. You still have to spend the next week downloading crap to fill all the normal use items.
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
No file manager worth a crap
Thunar? Or you can use Nemo or PCmanFM or whatever.
nobody's ever figured out a menu editor for it.
It has one...admittedly in Fedora it requires some workarounds to work (it relies on gnomemenu.so which Gnome3 doesn't use, so you have to manually install an old rpm)
Use Gnote. Tomboy ported to C++ with no mono dependencies.
XFCE would be enhanced a lot if Compiz would work with it. Ubuntu 10.04 is much nicer looking than Xubuntu 12.04.
I still use fvwm and it still has a great pager. :-)
Some people got that setup to work, but it hasn't been very stable for me (crashes), so I prefer xfwin. Compiz is nice and all, but I prefer stability above all.
Been using LInux since 97-98, and using Gnome pretty much most of the time (OK, did use WindowMaker and Enlightenment at first).
And now I'm using KDE (Kubuntu), because I just can't stand Unity, and Mint at work.
I just can't stand scrolling through pages of apps trying to find the infrequently used ones. I've given it a fair shot several times, and it's made me a convert.....to KDE.
Can I hear from someone the reason(s) as to why they like Unity better than the old Gnome?
..........FULL STOP.
If Gnome 3.8 still has application popup windows that are "pinned" below the app's window bar, then it still reeks.
This started at Gnome 3.0, and [as far as I can tell from a quick perusal of the source code] they removed the code [from metacity, mutter, gnome-whatever] that corresponded to the config option to allow these windows to float.
For an example, play gnomines. When you complete a game, the popup comes up and obscures the top part of the board. You can't see your time [or a portion of the board]. This can't be overridden.
As a far worse example, do an "open file" [ctrl-O] in Firefox. See how much information is obscured (tabs, toolbar, url, etc.).
To remove working code that provided a useful option to force "A Brave New Paradigm" is just asinine.
Like a good neighbor, fsck is there
Can I have my vertical panels in this new "classic" mode? This is the single item that eventually had me removing gnome and installing kde. With the low but wide screens on todays computers it's silly to remove even more workspace by having top and bottom panels. Have them vertically on the left or right sides! Plenty of unused space out there in the suburbs. I need my many lines of source code or document text. Don't steel my height!
It just works, except that you have to fiddle with text files to turn caps lock into another ctrl, and the keyboard switcher doesn't quite work as well, and there's no obvious way to indicate that you've been working for an hour and need to take a break (OK, in Gnome 3 there isn't either, but the software was easy to find, because it's just a fork of the Gnome 2 software).
All in all, I've tried Xfce, and I keep switching back to Gnome 3. Xfce isn't as good as Gnome 2 was, and isn't as good as Gnome 3 with enough extensions. I would still prefer Gnome 2 with some of the fancy effects from Gnome 3, but I'll take Gnome 3 with extensions over Xfce.
You may now commence burning the heretic.
HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
I'd argue they have. They are back to the situation they had prior to Gnome's surge where they are seen as coequal. They aren't equal to the old situation where they were ahead. People think of KDE and Gnome as peers.
Arch now leans KDE. Suse is back to being a KDE distribution that supports Gnome rather than coequal. Many of the BSDs are incidentally dropping Gnome support since Gnome is becoming too Linux dependent.
I tried it for a while, but what killed it for me was the big icon that appears every time I change desktops with the keyboard. So I am now going to lose a second of my life every time I switch desktops before I can fully read what is on them? Wow, thanks GNOME team, you're really thinking of what I need for my daily life. I'm switching desktops constantly, and every time I do it I feel that you are getting in my way. Now someone is going to tell me there is a GNOME3-hacking tool to turn it off. Why should I need a hacking tool to get it into a basically usable state? Please tell me when GNOME 3 is ready for use by people like me. Or should I wait for GNOME 4?
What you mean you've never gone out and download and installed a utility that was not part of the standard OS? There is no difference. [...] It's like complaining that you didn't get the most awesome car stereo in your new car and you had to go out and get an aftermarket.
Yes, yes there is. The difference is that the old pager had this important feature, and the new pager does not. You would rightly complain if the old model of your luxury car had a CD player and Sirius/XM, and the new version has a tape deck and AM only.
Stop worrying about whether it's part of the OS or not.
Guess what? We're not talking about the OS, we're talking about the GUI.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Sadly, there's far more to GNOME3 failures than just the menu/panel. Even Cinnamon doesn't restore a good part of what worked well in GNOME2.. But oh well, there's Mate and, not as good, XFCE.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
GNOME 3 is perfectly usable. It certainly has flaws and frustrations but complaining that "zero thought" has gone into usability is absurd. It's also very to use. I didn't have to tell my wife or kids anything more than "click on activities to launch stuff" for them to figure it out from their existing experience of Windows 7.
They have by far the best tech.
Nice start, fanboy.
Some high profile projects use GTK, but this is nearly always for historical reasons.
Um, I don't imagine Firefox or Eclipse switching off from GTK+ any time soon. Considering that it just grew a functional Wayland backend ahead of Qt, it's not even clear-cut which one is "the best tech". Anything that does not involve C++, but provides a dynamically introspectable object model for language bindings earns quite a few cred points with me.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
Firefox draws some widgets using GTK, but really it is XUL underneath, which they did so they could have plugins which would be cross-platform in ways which are not possible with C or C++. Also, what part of a project dating from way back is not legacy?
As for your bizarre love of G_OBJECT... I don't know how to react to that... It's a bit like a priest admitting a really nasty kink whilst preaching to a group of nuns. You want objects and inheritance and introspection ? Use a language which supports that. C is not meant to be used that way. You like GTK? use gtkmm. Also, the GNOME core team knows this. And because they have decided c++ is anathema, they keep coming up with new languages-of-the-day each sold as the standard for future GNOME apps. There was C# and mono. These days it is Vala. Of course, it'll never work, because you have to pick a language which is not yours (so Vala won't work) and which is not tainted (C# won't work). Basically, you have C, C++, and possibly Java. They picked the one not-OO language.
But yes, KDE clearly has the best tech. It's not like they survived, and in fact strived, whilst ever having the support of whatever distro was dominant at the time. So if it is not corporate backing, what is it? It is libraries and design so good that a collection of individual contributors' contributions can be harnessed into a desktop which is preferred by the majority of users. In the open source world, tech always wins in the long run.
No. The existing Gnome 2 userbase on existing hardware was not really the intended audience for Gnome 3. It was possible a bad naming decision in taking the product in a direction likely to alienate existing customers rather than release a new product name.
You're right there, they should have called it Gnumb. Or something like Gnumb Gnuts would be even more descriptive, and delineate their intended user base fairly precisely.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
I should say straight away that I will not be using classic mode because quite frankly, I like Gnome Shell as it is. I get on with it really well and running a pair of screens with it suits my needs brilliantly. We are all very aware however that many people have not taken to the new interface and putting something in place that helps those people to continue to use Gnome in a way they prefer is surely a good thing.
If they've done that once, they'll do it again.
Once? They've been removing useful features for a long time. You can't turn on focus-follows-mouse anymore without a google search to guide you through it. Expandable folders (tree view) in Nautilus is the latest victim. It's bizarre and frustrating.
Enjoying Bodhi Linux; e17 is very nice. Glad to hear about GNOME 3.8 and "classic mode", but I have no great urge to try it out. Perhaps someday.
Also, what part of a project dating from way back is not legacy?
You are saying this as if there is some functionality problem from the project being more than a few years old. Surely KDE has a lot of legacy too? Are you happy with the developments that led to Phonon (where the most widely used backend on Linux is, ironically, GStreamer)?
As for your bizarre love of G_OBJECT... I don't know how to react to that... It's a bit like a priest admitting a really nasty kink whilst preaching to a group of nuns. You want objects and inheritance and introspection ? Use a language which supports that. C is not meant to be used that way.
Don't tell me in what ways C can or cannot be used. I may consider it a challenge :-)
You like GTK? use gtkmm.
Umm, no. If I want to use a more productive language than C, there are a few viable options, but C++ is not one of them.
Also, the GNOME core team knows this. And because they have decided c++ is anathema, they keep coming up with new languages-of-the-day each sold as the standard for future GNOME apps. There was C# and mono.
Heh, how much this KDE fanboy knows. Mono was never popular outside of a clique centered around Miguel de Icaza, and neither the platform nor the desktop ever depended on it.
These days it is Vala. Of course, it'll never work, because you have to pick a language which is not yours (so Vala won't work)
What the hell does this even mean? Among other things, Vala allows you to create libraries that are fully usable from C, or any other languages that can work with GObject introspection. Try that with C++.
Basically, you have C, C++, and possibly Java.
And JavaScript, and Python, and...
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
The panel in Cinnamon is not as good as in GNOME2 and they don't have as many nice applets as GNOME2, but it is OK. Looks very nice, though.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
I'm amazed by the amount of damage "touch" have done to UI design. Everything now has to be touch! My MP3 player (iAudio10, which is otherwise cool) does not have physical buttons for forward/backward anymore, so I have to wake the sucker before switching the song if I choose to.
And that touch interface in Tesla is just stupid.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
Things are changing because hardware is changing.
shhh... let them stay there. they are happy. :-)
what advanced 'wm features' are you looking for?
As I said quite clearly it has flaws and frustrations but I think it's a sound desktop. It's clean, simple, work oriented, discoverable, attractive and easy to use. I share frustration at the over simplicity of the control panel but I'm not about to pretend it's "unusable" or that we should all revert to kitchen-sink style KDE or GNOME 2 for the sake of that.
As I said quite clearly it has flaws and frustrations but I think it's a sound desktop. It's clean, simple, work oriented, discoverable, attractive and easy to use. I share frustration at the over simplicity of the control panel but I'm not about to pretend it's "unusable" or that we should all revert to kitchen-sink style KDE or GNOME 2 for the sake of that.
Heh, someone's calling GNOME 2 a "kitchen sink". It seems we have come full circle...
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
No I called KDE kitchen sink though I appreciate it could have been read to include GNOME 2 too. GNOME 2's problem is more technical than usability.