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One Boston Marathon Bomb Suspect Dead, Other At Large After Shootout With Police
theodp writes "During the night, The Tech broke news that gunshots were reported at MIT near 32 Vassar Street (the Ray and Maria Stata Center for Computer, Information, and Intelligence Sciences), and one officer was shot and taken to Mass General Hospital. MIT's Emergency Information page also reports that injuries have been reported. Sadly, CNN is now reporting that the university police officer has died. Look for updates on Twitter."
The two suspects identified earlier as being behind the Boston Marathon bombings are believed to be responsible for this. They were found by police. One suspect, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was killed in a shootout. The other suspect, 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, is still being pursued. The Associated Press reports that the two are believed to be from the Russian region near Chechnya. During the firefight, the suspects threw explosive devices at police. Public transit in Boston has been shut down, and hundreds of thousands of people have been asked to not leave their homes. Here are live feed for local TV news and emergency services audio. Police have been warned that the remaining suspect may have a suicide vest.
Reader Okian Warrior points out a related story worthy of notice: "The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Reader Okian Warrior points out a related story worthy of notice: "The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Hide your kids, hide your wife!
Will also plant bombs for passport apparently. Tamerlan Tsarnaev seeks US Passport for "Olympics"
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
It looks like, from what I can gather from online media etc., that they were carrying explosives to plant around MIT. And it was campus security that first become suspicious. If this is the case, then thoughts are with the campus security officer that gave his life - a lot of students are probably a lot better off because of his bravery. Thoughts are with everyone in boston and hope this is over soon.
http://t.co/0A3Mjmshkz
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https://twitter.com/AKitz/status/325121071479156736/photo/1
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https://twitter.com/akitz = andrew kitzenberg's twitter site
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supposedly, backpacks on Laurel Street where a police shoot-out occured. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3664323&cid=43490229
Reader Okian Warrior points out a related story worthy of notice:
"The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Dark skinned. He must be guilty. Basically 4chan, like anonymous, is simply a bastion of the socially immature taking vigilante justice into their own hands. Stoke the fire of society's fears and then claim innocence when someone acts on their "information".
Police did what they could to take them alive, since a dead person doesn't talk much. In that kind of situation, couldn't they use some kind of anaesthetic bullets? Sure, many people prefer them dead, but taking them alive is a way to collect more relevant information.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
tunein
there are military at nearly every marathon with backpacks.
especially the big ones
they hike the course alongside the runners.
i've run 8 marathons (including this years boston marathon) and at 6 of them there were various military hikers. they are always very supportive of the runners and vice versa
this has nothing to do with the bombings.
Play by play......really slashdot? Give us a good post-op synopsis, don't fuel the speculation fire.
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
"The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Yesterday on my facebook news feed I saw no less than three fake images that could have been mean pranks. And I didn't even see the one listed above. So now all the "crowd sourced" news folks are going to remove images of this man and this woman and this guy. The reason I didn't propagate these things was that they could have been anybody! You could play a mean prank on a friend/enemy if you have a picture of him with a backpack.
Also there are many fake first hand accounts but also some real first hand accounts in crowdsourced news. Ignore the former and herald the latter. People will think you're doing god's work simply because they didn't watch the shitfest that is crowdsourced news in the moments of pure confusion immediately following the event. The signal to noise ratio, the added noise, the fact that people can start leads anonymously, it all reeks of a really bad, lawless, unaccountable lynch mob.
So now post hoc you scrub out all those false leads and you clean up all the things you were wrong about. Then when that's done you point out the few leads you were right about. Then you go on and on at length about how 4chan and reddit are the new real sources of journalism. The mainstream press is busted to all hell (do not confuse this with a free pass or defense for them) but they know they'll be held accountable and the New York Post's gamble should really turn into a slander/libel suit with damages paid out to that young man. NYP made money off those 'exclusive' images at the expense of a person's safety and that should be a civil suit that should expose the NYP for what it really is: a piece of shit rag no better than a tabloid version of "crowd-sourced" news.
Who was it that initially fingered Salah Eddin Barhoum? You don't know and no one ever will because there is no integrity with how that lead was developed.
My work here is dung.
Is it really your place to question what Slashdot decides to post on Slashdot?
Start your own news site, and then you can tell your own editors what they can and cannot put on the front page.
The New York Times is reporting that the two suspects attempted to light a bomb while engaging in gun-fire with the police during a standoff outside of the Watertown, MA, house of Andrew Kitzenberg. Andy Kitzenberg has been live tweeting images of the police activity, shootout, and bomb explosions, and a bullet going through his wall and his armchair on twitter as linked above.
One of the brothers went to Cambridge Rindge and Latin, one of the oldest high schools in the USA.
The nerdy part being that social media and the large number of photos taken by people in the crowd from their smartphones were used in the quick investigation which lead to the alleged bombers.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Does this story really have a place on Slashdot?
You can read more about it on practically every major news site, and it is live on all news-oriented TV channels all over the world. It does not need to be on the tech sites too.
Slashdot has never claimed to be just a tech site. Also, you can't discuss events with your peers on major news sites.
You know what they will use this anecdote to justify: more cameras with better resolution that are always on. Think 'Eye of Sauron'.
Don't forget the IRA and their fundraisers in various US cities, including Boston.
and, i fully expect to be modded down for this: if we allow ourselves to be terrorized, the point of the action was successful. Locking down the entire city, ordering businesses closed, and shutting down the mass transit system is the very definition of "successful terrorist attack." No amount of national anthem sing-song is going to somehow magically avoid this fact.
Good people go to bed earlier.
You guessed right, sucks when bigots feel validated through confirmation bias. You were wrong about the Norway attacks though, I remember what you posted in that thread. So, one right, one wrong, you're about as good as a flipped coin.
Whenever one of you idiots wander in here and complain that its not "News for nerds" you always seem to forget the "Stuff that matters" part.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
clearly you don't know how conspiracy theories work.
the fact that they weren't wearing illuminati sigils proves that it was the stone masons pretending to be illuminati to hide the fact that there were martians disguised as humans running in the marathon.
So what do you call them now, Americans, are these Chechen guys "terrorists" or "freedom fighters"?
They are Islamist, that much certain, so why are they bombing USA, after all USA was probably more on the side of Chechens in their search for independence from Russia (this is of-course about oil, there is oil in Chechnya).
However it is my personal guess that these guys wanted to bring some terror to USA as an asymmetric response to USA being in the Middle East, Afghanistan most likely. What is interesting is that the two brothers (Johar is the younger one) lived in USA as refugees since 2000-2001. What else could be their motivation if not a newly discovered sympathy towards their 'brothers in religion' somewhere in the Afghan mountains, being attacked by the US empire?
I think this is an example of how exactly the war on Terror will backfire just like the war on drugs did with more violence and more drugs.
War on terror creates more terrorists that were just kids just a few years ago. War on drugs creates more drug related violence.
There is an old idea that violence begets violence, I think it's very much true.
You can't handle the truth.
I was going with Octo-mom, myself.
On a serious note, And "this sort of attack, aimed at killing and injuring indiscriminately is the hallmark of ALL TERRORISTS". FTFY.
Refer to Irish Troubles, Tamil Tigers, Shining Path, etc.
Pretty much the only terrorist groups I can think of that avoid civilian casualties are the anti-corporate flavor (Weather Underground).
I know...mod me down as an anti-gun nut. But at least try to make the connection.
The advantage of crowdsourcing is that you get a shit-ton of information quickly, and it gets disseminated just as quickly. Everybody with a cell phone and a social media account has had this stuff in front of them since the bombing. It's great because it happens so fast, and millions of people being on alert can make for a quicker break in the case. It also has the downside of putting up a lot of false positives.
The NRA's stance is that if everyone had a gun, criminals would know not to so bad stuff and if they did there would be someone right there to stop them. It's basically crowd sourcing police/law enforcement work. Yes, there are now lots more people who can intervene with a criminal who is armed and dangerous. Just as everyone with a cell phone can photograph a scene and post the pictures on line for the world to peruse and instantly identify criminals.
Thing is, the more people who are involved, the higher the likelihood of a false positive. In the case of photos and social media, the mis-identified have a reason to be concerned short term, but once the media self-corrects and the correct criminals are identified their lives will slowly get back to normal. When guns are involved, a mis-identified person or bystander doesn't get a new life when the actual criminal is killed. The "oops" is permanent.
If you don't think there isn't the equivalent of 4chan in the vigilante world, you're sorely mistaken. It's part of the human condition to jump to conclusions based on limited evidence and not everyone will have the forethought or presence of mind not to take out someone who they think is about to cause harm to others.
If we used the NRA method of justice, Salah Eddin Barhoum would have been dead before the FBI even published the photos of the actual bombers.
(nb: I am a gun owner)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
He's not from _near_ Chechnya. It's not a city, it's a region. They are Chechens. References to "his native Chechnya". (The capital is Grozny).
He doesn't consider himself Russian, and he doesn't think he comes from "the Russian region near Chechnya". It was a de facto republic that Russia regained control of militarily.
He's likely a Sunni muslim, but it's quite possible that isn't really a factor here; this could simply be an international protest bombing regarding the west's stance on Chechen independence. Chechens are Muslims the way that Russians are Orthodox Christians and Americans are Catholic or Calvinist in origin; Islam hasn't as far as I understand it been a feature element of their struggle.
Besides, the police said to not leave your home. A huge number of Redditors and Slashdotters won't be affected by this story at all.
Well, experience suggests that a community of people, which is what the Slashdot commentariat is, are generally likely to want and get involved in a discussion of a major issue of international interest. The large number of comments on this posting demonstrate that, yes, this is one of those things we want to discuss.
So yes, Slashdot certainly should post this.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Why is it always MALES??
I mean, why can't we get more WOMEN into terrorism? We can't seem to get them interested in Engineering, and now it seems we need more equal opportunity for terrorism.
What can be done about this? Sheesh, will the sexism never end for us??
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The other nerdy part, the elephant in the room everyone is dancing around, is how the much vaunted "crowdsourced" media got it wrong - badly so. That part will go down the memory hole as people confuse "the authorities going through the photos from the crowds" with "the crowds going through the photos".
This all looks like a great excuse for the government to take away more of our rights in exchange for security theater.
That said, every person who is alone and carrying a backpack is clearly a terrorist.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
There was a group of military that ran the marathon WITH backpacks on. They were also some of the first to help the wounded. exercise your inner-google. I saw photos that day of that showed them running IN the race.
Take off the tinfoil hat and rejoin reality. It may suck and make no sense at times, but every now and then, you actually get to have some fun. If you are always wearing your tinfoil hat, you will NEVER feel happiness.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
Russian in fact. That should confuse everybody nicely.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
The suspect they were trying to apprehend was shooting at them and throwing bombs at them. At that point, regardless of whether you are guilty of the crime they are arresting you for, you forfeit any right you have to stay alive.
When you try to unlawfully kill someone, they are justified in using lethal force to stop you from killing them.
You guessed right, sucks when bigots feel validated through confirmation bias. You were wrong about the Norway attacks though, I remember what you posted in that thread. So, one right, one wrong, you're about as good as a flipped coin.
I was wrong about the Norway attacks. It was one individual, who in my opinion was insane. Now look at the list of terror attacks in 2012 and tell me that putting mas murder down to Muslims is just like flipping a coin. I make it about 17 out of 20, and its only that low because Wikipedia counts things like "a possible second US drone strike has killed two more suspected foreign fighters in northwestern Pakistan", and "Two US drone strikes in the volatile tribal belt of northwest Pakistan killed at least five suspected militants on Friday" as terrorist attacks.
Yes except that's a complete lie given that there were a number of bombings that resulted in deaths and injuries where no warnings were given.
Don't try and pretend there's any difference simply because you're racist, terrorists are terrorists.
There was a news story about some military unit that ran the full marathon in full gear/with rucksacks.
They finished towards the beginning of the race and were some of the people seen running towards the blasts and removing the barricades to let the first responders get to the victims.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago. Leave law enforcement to the trained professionals.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Are you a Christian, or an Athiest, or what?
Because I'd like to know what random group I should completely alienate on the basis of a single lifestyle choice they happen to share with a terrorist.
Up next: All brown-eyed people are murderers.
Idiot.
"couldn't they use some kind of anaesthetic bullets?"
BATMAN ISN'T REAL.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
... The ratio of crappy versus good cops seems to go up when you're dealing with rent-a-cops and security, yes ...
Campus police may be real cops, especially so at state schools. At the University of California they are actually equivalent to state police and may patrol areas off campus with large concentrations of students. At my campus when a nearby bank was robbed the UC Police were the first on scene, confronting and containing armed robbers. When a local police officer was shot during a routine traffic stop one night, and the suspect fled into a nearby industrial park, the UC Police, the local police and the police from the neighboring town were searching and clearing the buildings in the park. I forget which department actually found the guy.
Hey, be fair, it's entirely possible that he won't be ambushed. For instance, he could repeatedly miss his target and kill one or more innocent bystanders, like the chuckleheads on Danzig street.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Because it's so much better listening to you whine about ACs.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
Now look at the list of terror attacks in 2012
None of those happened in the USA. Here's a list of Islamic attack attempts in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_extremism_in_the_United_States#attacks_or_failed_attacks_by_date
And here's a far bigger list of all terrorism attempts in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#2010.E2.80.93present
If you guess every terrorism attack in the USA is Islamic, you're going to be wrong more often than you are right.
You might want to check that on snopes.com.
Although I admit it makes for a dramatic story if only it were true. Life isn't fair. The stories that should be true, the ones that sound truthy, don't turn out that way.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It's not necessary to "make fun of" false flag conspiracy theories, they're riotously amusing in and of themselves.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
The link with MIT speaks to why this is news for nerds. Nerds/engineers are probably the most likely suspects in any bombing, being both disenfranchised from the mainstream and having the intelligence to know how to accomplish the engineering required to blow something up.
Korma: Good
Are you seriously calling Law Enforcement 'trained professionals'? Lately, some of the arrests/videos/incidents I have seen make me question whether some of these cops should be allowed to drive, much less enforce laws and carry weapons. It seems like instead of safety and peace of mind police like to tote their guns as bolt-on confidence, and love to wave them around for whatever reason they can find.
I would feel a whole lot safer with a well-practiced civilian carrying a gun than the boys in blue who have only the department's weapons training to work with. At least your average civilian isn't going to shoot you unless you start shooting first. Police don't have the same prerequisites to shoot people, and will be let off the hook for just about any shooting, no matter how unjustified. Their trigger finger is especially itchy when they think their uniform makes them a target and everyone is out to get them.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
Look at the IRA's death toll. Apparently, they were whispering those "warnings" up the Bishop's ass.
There's not that much difference between the IRA and Al Qaeda. Both self-righteous religious murderers.
You are welcome on my lawn.
If you stick your finger into the mouth of a snapping turtle, and the snapping turtle bites it off, and then I point out that in retrospect sticking your finger in the mouth of the snapping turtle was a bad idea, am I "defending" the snapping turtle? If you cut down a tree while standing where it's going to fall, and it falls on you, and I point out that it's best to figure out where the tree is going to fall before you start cutting, are you going to accuse me of "defending" the tree?
Inflicting mayhem on large populations will, statistically, produce some number of people who are so pissed off that they will strike back. This is true whether they are Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Cult of the Yellow Sign or Pastafarian. The people from these populations who subsequently act on their anger and inflict new mayhem on new innocents don't get to say "it's okay, we're just getting revenge." But we can certainly say "gosh, it might have been better not to inflict that kind of damage on a large population; maybe we should try to fix what damage we can, and not do that in the future." That's not "defending terrorists."
Hide your backpack! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
Yes, unfortunately that list also for some unknown reason (well I lie, it's not known, that list has been produced by someone with a bias) completely missing many other incidents.
There were in the same period attacks that would also fall under the lose definition used (or even a much tighter definition) of terrorist attacks by Shining Path rebels in Peru, Farc rebels in Colombia, Buddhists in Burma (against muslims), PIRA in Ireland, Hindus in India (against muslims). I could probably go on if I bother to Google for other parts of the world that the Western press rarely gives a fuck about but there's little point given that there's enough here to run a bulldozer over the worthfulness of that list.
Further, it seems a little odd to take a list so many attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq and pretend they're somehow evidence of muslims being somehow a problematic grouping of people without considering the context of those attacks and that they were triggered by the actions of Bush and Blair's modern Christian crusades and that most attacks are against other muslims so are as much demonstrative of civil war, than terrorism.
But anyway, I don't know why I'm bothering, you've made enough posts in response to enough stories that have absolutely no relevance to Islam proclaiming your hate for it for it to be obvious you are a fully signed up far right propagandist and hence inherently unable to think rationally or converse sensibly on this topic, but I guess for the benefit of others, perhaps they can at least see that terrorism happens globally, and that muslims are as much victims as they are perpetrators. You only have to look at the suffering muslims faced in Afghanistan in the 80s by the USSR, and Chechnya as a result of Putin's policies for example to see that they haven't exactly had an easy ride themselves. You may think a few attacks in the West are evidence of some horrible group of people far worse than anyone else, but here's an idea - why not go live somewhere like Burma, or Islamic areas of India for a while and then tell me they're the bad guys not the victims - you don't know what terrorism is unless you've seen or bothered to even read about how some of these communities suffer daily.
The IRA put bombs in pubs and Burger Kings, with nothing resembling a "warning" issued and with there being little point in planting them unless the aim was to kill civilians, primarily or secondarily.
Frankly I'm tried of hearing people on this side of the Atlantic give them a pass simply because they were made up predominantly of Christians and because their cause is sympathetic. They were (and the remaining pockets who've continued to fight since the peace agreements of the 1990s still are) murderous thugs. At best, you can argue they weren't as lethal, with fewer people killed and with no attempt to drag in unrelated countries into their bitter dispute. But yes, as a Brit living in Britain for the first 25 years of my life, there was a target on my back - not as big as it was for soldiers, police, and everyone from construction workers to bankers considered by some arbitrary definition to be helping the British in Northern Ireland, but it was there.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
What I really don't understand about this Conceal Carry mentality is how the police and/or other 'knuckle-heads packing heat' know how to distinguish you from the real bad guy... the way I see the scene playing out is Bad guy becomes apparent... hero A draws his piece to defend society (and hopefully inflict no collateral damage)... hero B arrives on the scene and now has two targets to choose from... repeat ad nauseam.
You do realize that the real objective is to bring the suspect to justice (and justice does not necessarily mean kill them)... right?
What you choose to do in your own house is one matter. In public, like other posters have said, leave this to the trained professionals.
Hey how come you forgot to mention these are Chechen Bagger NRA loving bible thumpers huh?
"Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was killed in a shootout"
That is not known, it is quite possible he died of bast from his suicide vest at the hospital or on the way, It is believed his last words were "I love the NRA, hold by beer and watch this!"
Fuckwads.
He was apparently shot full of more holes than a Swiss cheese, run over by an SUV, and detonated a suicide device. It may take a while to figure out what actually killed him.
Don't try and pretend there's any difference simply because you're racist, terrorists are terrorists.
Since when is the Muslim religion a race?
"There were some. As far as I can remember these were aimed at military targets or other paramilitary groups."
Then you can't remember very far and should probably avoid the topic given that fact.
"Really? What race am I discriminating against? What race am I? Go on tell"
Look, I don't play games. I have zero respect for people who like to pretend they're the good citizen, that they're objective, fair, sensible, rational individuals and that this is nothing to do with race because they "have friends who are muslim" and so on. I prefer to call a spade a spade, and you're likely discriminating against people who aren't white caucasian Westerners. Even if you were an anomally and it's not about race for you, then the fact you generalise 1.3bn people as all being the same still doesn't exactly paint you in any better a light. It still fully paints you with the same level of idiocy so it's by the by, it doesn't matter, you're either a racist or as bad as one because however you cut it you still have that simplistic feeble mindset.
If you hold a political view at least have the courage of your convictions to accept it and admit you're part of the far right and a fascist. Acting as something whilst you're pretending to be another just defines you as a coward who doesn't have enough faith in his beliefs to stand behind them. It says that deep down you want to be a reasonable member of society but you know you're letting your anger and hatred based on your primalistic tribalism take control rather than an ability to pursue rational thought but that you can't control it, because you're mentally weak, and hence, so are your arguments.
there are military at nearly every marathon with backpacks
Heu... Why ?!?
do you know what military training mainly consists of? hiking around with backpacks.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
If you can't understand that most muslims are non-white caucasian and that most islamophobes single out muslims over other arguably worse, but same race killers (like Adam Lanza and friends) because they are racist, even if they can't admit it deep down, then I can't really help you understand why I said what I said and the reason I said it for.
The likes of the IRA, the far right, and ETA have killed far more in the West than muslims in recent decades yet they are not singled out in the same manner, and the reason is simply the underlying racism towards the ethnic groups that primarily comprise the muslim population.
Someone is doing it, because the scarcity of available of ammunition is certainly true.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Online stores are showing no shortage.
Wal-mart is showing no shortage.
You are welcome on my lawn.
"Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago. Leave law enforcement to the trained professionals."
Oh the cognitive dissonance is great with this one.
Gee, you'd think that if guns were so dangerous that just holding one is likely to kill you, the cops would want the bad guys to have lots of them.
But the truth is they don't, and they aren't, especially if you train and prepare as you are supposed to, and have good aim.
But you go ahead drone and hide behind your couch, I'll be busy protecting myself and my family.
Hey, be fair, it's entirely possible that he won't be ambushed. For instance, he could repeatedly miss his target and kill one or more innocent bystanders, like the chuckleheads on Danzig street.
Did you link the wrong thing or are you, to be kind, misreading incredibly badly? That's an article from Canada. Known as one of the anti-rights, gun control, people's utopias. There is effectively no concealed carry. There gun laws out the ass. Canada is frequently pointed out as "the way it should be!"
Yet, you put in a link to a gang shooting with 25 victims, two dead. While trying to say that Concealed Carriers shoot up innocent bystanders. Way to go.
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
Who said anything about Law Enforcement? A CCW is about personal protection when LEO isn't around.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Geez, I've been reading this page and it looks like knows exactly who these guys are, their political affiliations and motivations for the bombings. When I went to bed last night there weren't even decent pictures of these guys and we just got their names this mornings. Their high-school friends have no idea why they did this. Their father hasn't said -- and may not know -- why they did it. Neither brother has explained their motivations and one of them never will.
Give it time. We don't have nearly enough information yet, so if everyone could just vacate their pulpit-of-preference until we do we might be able to raise the signal-to-noise ratio around here.
Thanks.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
"Read the Qur'an and listen to the words of Muslim clerics and you will see how anyone who believes in tolerance, equality, justice for all, and freedom of expression should opose Islam"
But that's just it isn't it? These things are all open to interpretation and whatever is said in the Koran, or by extremist preachers is really irrelevant - that says nothing about the followers as a whole, that does nothing to justify your generalisation of all 1.3bn muslims.
As I have pointed out to you, right now there are Buddhists attacking and killing muslims in places like Burma, do you really not see that even if the teachings of Buddhism can be interpreted in such a way as to justify violence that anything can? That it's not the text, that kills people, it's simply people who are often brought up in a world of turmoil, violence, and anger - the same sort of anger you're preaching, which is precisely the type of anger that creates far right extremists. You seem entirely oblivious that your distortion of the facts, your preaching of select points and ideas (i.e. you never make mention of the billion odd muslims who behave and even do genuine good in the world) is exactly the same as what those Islamic preachers you so hate do?
You may think you're doing right, you may think you're doing good, but in reality you're exactly the same as the likes of Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada, you just thankfully haven't found the platform and hence do not have the listeners to do the same damage they do.
Are you really so oblivious to the fact you're doing exactly what they do in generalising about muslims as they generalise about Westerners and preaching hate towards them? If you don't recognise this then tell me, what do you think is different? the mere fact your preaching hasn't led to a terrorist incident yet but theirs has?
Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago.
So if he has a concealed carry permit, how will they know to ambush him? Are they psychic?
If they are already shooting the area up, they aren't ambushing him and he has a weapon to protect himself.
Stuff happens: 80 Year Old Michigan Homeowner Fights Off FIVE Armed Robbery Suspects Using Handgun
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Yes, they are "trained professionals" --- and out of a gigantic pool of trained professionals, you still get a lot of fatal idiocy. If you think think unleashing a bunch of gun-totin' civilians (each personally convinced they are the sharpest shooter and most level-headed adjudicator of human conflict) is going to have better results than this, you're completely looney. Handing over the same corrupting power --- a license to kill --- to any panicky racist hick, with an itchy trigger finger for vigilante justice, who fills out the forms won't make the world safer.
Doesn't matter at all. The damage to one's reputation has already been done, much like once you're accused of being a pedo, that stink sticks around a long long time. This kind of crowdsourced BS is just a fancy new buzzword for mob justice/mob rule with all the negatives that entails.
The bombers are Chechens, not ethnic Russians. Chechnya is a part of Russia that is largely Muslum, north of the Middle East. They have been waging an Islamist insurgency intermittently since 1994. Chechens have been responsible for other terror attacks including the Dubrovka Theater attack that killed 130 hostages and the Beslan massacre that killed 334, including 156 children There are claims 100 or more victims of Beslan were burned alive.
Did you link the wrong thing or are you, to be kind, misreading incredibly badly? That's an article from Canada. Known as one of the anti-rights, gun control, people's utopias. There is effectively no concealed carry. There gun laws out the ass. Canada is frequently pointed out as "the way it should be!"
So, it doesn't count because it's Canada, or more people with guns shooting through a crowd of people would have somehow led to fewer people being shot?
Yet, you put in a link to a gang shooting with 25 victims, two dead. While trying to say that Concealed Carriers shoot up innocent bystanders. Way to go.
Concealed carriers don't shoot up innocent bystanders. People with guns shooting at other people often hit innocent bystanders. It doesn't matter whether it's police, criminals, or concealed carriers doing the shooting. Idiots with guns are trouble, no matter who they are.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
I'll try to clear a bit of that up. Some soldiers, even when off-duty, love to be seen in their uniforms. They are proud of who they are, the organization that they serve, and want everyone to know it. True pride in thier work if you will because that is a core principle ingrained in them during training. The backpackers aren't typically running with their gear, as was originally mentioned they are walking along side. Some to just get that road march type training in, sometimes because they are EMT volunteers so they carry appropriate gear, and sometimes just as a show of solidairity and support. Also there can and have been events like that where a military person could have been participating, sponsored by his unit. I don't know if this marathon in particular consisted of those but you can't rule it out. Post 911 at least, it has been general policy of the military though to not wear your uniform in public unless you are enroute to work. This is to minimize attacks of opportunity and as general operation security protocol. Some don't heed that advice however, possibly because of the "romantic" visions of the WW2 days where soldiers were loved and respected by the public and they wish to try and revive that spirit. Again that's a pride thing. Hope that helps.
So, it doesn't count because it's Canada, or more people with guns shooting through a crowd of people would have somehow led to fewer people being shot?
It mainly doesn't count because you're attempting to compare and equate a group who makes a life of breaking the law and semi-indiscriminate violence to a group that is generally more law abiding than the general public and frequently more so than the police and with lower incidents of violence.
Concealed carriers don't shoot up innocent bystanders. People with guns shooting at other people often hit innocent bystanders. It doesn't matter whether it's police, criminals, or concealed carriers doing the shooting. Idiots with guns are trouble, no matter who they are.
Your point about crossfire is true, but unless you can point up a case where it's happened with concealed carriers I'm not sure it is a valid comparison. In the cases where CCWs have had to defend themselves there aren't any that I'm aware of where innocents have been hit.
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
When you want to commit suicide, guns are seconds away.
A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine tracked the owners of new gun permits to find out what happened to them. For every gun owner who used his gun in self-defense, 8 of them used it to commit suicide.
The NRA responded by lobbying for laws that prevented the release of information about gun permits, to prevent research like this from happening again.
You're much more likely to use a gun to kill yourself than to defend yourself.
Because of campus police like Lt. John Pike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper-spray_incident
Your own link states that students *surounded* the police and *demanded* that those in custody be released. It further states that police ordered people to move and these people *refused*. What I recall from the full videos of the incident is that the police then pepper sprayed those people who refused to move and were *blocking* the path that the police wanted to use to exit the area.
This was *not* police simply walking up to protesters and pepper spraying them. These were people blocking an exit route as police were surrounded.
Your frothing at the mouth seems to have spilled onto your keyboard and an appropriate time. The site you complain about links to the original stories in the media that carried them. (Those would be the links that say: "Read the full article here:") You are free to follow the link to the original story and see what it says. Try it - it might save you another episode.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
You should take some basic handgun safety classes followed by some active shooting classes before you consider a CCW permit.
See if you can handle your shit in a mock active-shooter scenario. Because I guarantee that, in practice, if you can't consistently clear a jammed feed, draw your gun properly, disable the safety, and stay behind cover, then you won't be able to do it properly when you are actually about to kill someone. Plus, it is really hard to hit someone who is shooting back at you, especially if they planned ahead and have body armor, a shotgun, a semi-auto rifle and 200 rounds as compared to your two (legal) low-capacity magazines.
You may also find that you do not like the responsibility associated with carrying a firearm... Are you going to help others in danger or just yourself? Are you willing to accept the consequences of misinterpreting a rapidly evolving situation and doing the wrong thing? What if you accidentally shoot an undercover cop? What if you shoot a gang-member and the gang comes after you or your family? What if you accidentally shoot another CCW-holding citizen responding to the same situation? What if he shoots you? Is your spouse on-board with you carrying a loaded weapon on your person? Are you willing to no longer be able to drink alcohol on the days that you are carrying?
Also, remember that in a city, you can't legally take your gun into most stores or offices. If you illegally take it in, you are subject to a felony and loss of your CCW permit. And the average legal fees associated with shooting someone in self-defense are spectacular... upwards of $400K if the family decides to sue you.
I am not saying that you shouldn't go for it. Just be aware there is a lot of baggage associated with the "right" to carry and it is better to be aware of those issues up front.
And all 8 would've used a knife had no gun being around, this is a moot point.
1/2 of all suicides are done with guns in the U.S (17,000 out of 34,000). Yet, the U.S. suicide rate is completely typical for Western European counties where there are almost no guns (and where guns are rarely used for suicide).
The only reasonable conclusion is that guns are just the most convenient and certain method that happens to be available to suicidal people in the U.S.
I (in common with many Brits as I once was) have always had sympathy for the IRA's cause.
But never their methods.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Wrong.
The higher you raise the bar to do it, the fewer people who commit suicide.
This has been seen over and over again around the world.
The most recent example that pops to mind is England. The number 1 suicide rate was overdosing on over he counter pain reducers (Tylon et al.). So they passed a law saying all over the counter pills need to be in a pill packet.
The number of suicide using that method was cut in half, and no other method of suicide saw an increase.
Having a gun right there is the simplest and easiest way to kill oneself.
Give them a delay, even a slight one, and there is a good chance they won't do it.
Another fact: Most people who survived suicide, or was stopped, had no plan to commit suicide. They just decided to do it.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Weird, other people on other site had that exact same thing happen to you, and typed it in the same format and paragraphs. what a coincidence.
Page and [pages(not that many when put against the entire population) most of which have no confirmation that it actually happened.
Fucking astro turfing wanna be murders.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
irrelevant they were still terrorist, the fact that they had a cause doesn't change that.
The Irony here is that people forget it was a religious war, but get all purple in the face when they hear 'muslim'.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
since nobody else has yet.
Yes, that is one of the reasons I oppose gun control.