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One Boston Marathon Bomb Suspect Dead, Other At Large After Shootout With Police
theodp writes "During the night, The Tech broke news that gunshots were reported at MIT near 32 Vassar Street (the Ray and Maria Stata Center for Computer, Information, and Intelligence Sciences), and one officer was shot and taken to Mass General Hospital. MIT's Emergency Information page also reports that injuries have been reported. Sadly, CNN is now reporting that the university police officer has died. Look for updates on Twitter."
The two suspects identified earlier as being behind the Boston Marathon bombings are believed to be responsible for this. They were found by police. One suspect, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was killed in a shootout. The other suspect, 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, is still being pursued. The Associated Press reports that the two are believed to be from the Russian region near Chechnya. During the firefight, the suspects threw explosive devices at police. Public transit in Boston has been shut down, and hundreds of thousands of people have been asked to not leave their homes. Here are live feed for local TV news and emergency services audio. Police have been warned that the remaining suspect may have a suicide vest.
Reader Okian Warrior points out a related story worthy of notice: "The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Reader Okian Warrior points out a related story worthy of notice: "The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Hide your kids, hide your wife!
Will also plant bombs for passport apparently. Tamerlan Tsarnaev seeks US Passport for "Olympics"
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
It looks like, from what I can gather from online media etc., that they were carrying explosives to plant around MIT. And it was campus security that first become suspicious. If this is the case, then thoughts are with the campus security officer that gave his life - a lot of students are probably a lot better off because of his bravery. Thoughts are with everyone in boston and hope this is over soon.
http://t.co/0A3Mjmshkz
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https://twitter.com/AKitz/status/325121071479156736/photo/1
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https://twitter.com/akitz = andrew kitzenberg's twitter site
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supposedly, backpacks on Laurel Street where a police shoot-out occured. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3664323&cid=43490229
Reader Okian Warrior points out a related story worthy of notice:
"The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Dark skinned. He must be guilty. Basically 4chan, like anonymous, is simply a bastion of the socially immature taking vigilante justice into their own hands. Stoke the fire of society's fears and then claim innocence when someone acts on their "information".
I mean, completely closed until they hunt down suspect #2. I guess they're worried that he'll emerge from his hiding place (somewhere in Watertown, a close suburb) and carjack someone and start throwing explosives in random neighborhoods, which is pretty much what he already did.
Police did what they could to take them alive, since a dead person doesn't talk much. In that kind of situation, couldn't they use some kind of anaesthetic bullets? Sure, many people prefer them dead, but taking them alive is a way to collect more relevant information.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
tunein
there are military at nearly every marathon with backpacks.
especially the big ones
they hike the course alongside the runners.
i've run 8 marathons (including this years boston marathon) and at 6 of them there were various military hikers. they are always very supportive of the runners and vice versa
this has nothing to do with the bombings.
I really do. Even though i have little love for police my condolences to the family of tue officer. However, to feed the conspiracy folks, it does seem convienent that one is dead already. Shades of Jack Ruby?
Silence is a state of mime.
Play by play......really slashdot? Give us a good post-op synopsis, don't fuel the speculation fire.
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
"The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Yesterday on my facebook news feed I saw no less than three fake images that could have been mean pranks. And I didn't even see the one listed above. So now all the "crowd sourced" news folks are going to remove images of this man and this woman and this guy. The reason I didn't propagate these things was that they could have been anybody! You could play a mean prank on a friend/enemy if you have a picture of him with a backpack.
Also there are many fake first hand accounts but also some real first hand accounts in crowdsourced news. Ignore the former and herald the latter. People will think you're doing god's work simply because they didn't watch the shitfest that is crowdsourced news in the moments of pure confusion immediately following the event. The signal to noise ratio, the added noise, the fact that people can start leads anonymously, it all reeks of a really bad, lawless, unaccountable lynch mob.
So now post hoc you scrub out all those false leads and you clean up all the things you were wrong about. Then when that's done you point out the few leads you were right about. Then you go on and on at length about how 4chan and reddit are the new real sources of journalism. The mainstream press is busted to all hell (do not confuse this with a free pass or defense for them) but they know they'll be held accountable and the New York Post's gamble should really turn into a slander/libel suit with damages paid out to that young man. NYP made money off those 'exclusive' images at the expense of a person's safety and that should be a civil suit that should expose the NYP for what it really is: a piece of shit rag no better than a tabloid version of "crowd-sourced" news.
Who was it that initially fingered Salah Eddin Barhoum? You don't know and no one ever will because there is no integrity with how that lead was developed.
My work here is dung.
Of course not, that's not noteworthy to the MSM, which doesn't cover crazy people news.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Is it really your place to question what Slashdot decides to post on Slashdot?
Start your own news site, and then you can tell your own editors what they can and cannot put on the front page.
The New York Times is reporting that the two suspects attempted to light a bomb while engaging in gun-fire with the police during a standoff outside of the Watertown, MA, house of Andrew Kitzenberg. Andy Kitzenberg has been live tweeting images of the police activity, shootout, and bomb explosions, and a bullet going through his wall and his armchair on twitter as linked above.
One of the brothers went to Cambridge Rindge and Latin, one of the oldest high schools in the USA.
The nerdy part being that social media and the large number of photos taken by people in the crowd from their smartphones were used in the quick investigation which lead to the alleged bombers.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
https://twitter.com/JpDeathBlade
I write professional videogame reviews! http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/
Does this story really have a place on Slashdot?
You can read more about it on practically every major news site, and it is live on all news-oriented TV channels all over the world. It does not need to be on the tech sites too.
Slashdot has never claimed to be just a tech site. Also, you can't discuss events with your peers on major news sites.
You know what they will use this anecdote to justify: more cameras with better resolution that are always on. Think 'Eye of Sauron'.
Don't forget the IRA and their fundraisers in various US cities, including Boston.
How about the "looking at pictures means you're a irresponsible 4chan vigilante" angle?
If you don't want such stories posted here, why on earth did you just add an additional 4 "desired" points to it telling Slashdot you DO want more???
and, i fully expect to be modded down for this: if we allow ourselves to be terrorized, the point of the action was successful. Locking down the entire city, ordering businesses closed, and shutting down the mass transit system is the very definition of "successful terrorist attack." No amount of national anthem sing-song is going to somehow magically avoid this fact.
Good people go to bed earlier.
You guessed right, sucks when bigots feel validated through confirmation bias. You were wrong about the Norway attacks though, I remember what you posted in that thread. So, one right, one wrong, you're about as good as a flipped coin.
News for nerds AND Stuff that matters. I think this stuff matters.
Whenever one of you idiots wander in here and complain that its not "News for nerds" you always seem to forget the "Stuff that matters" part.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
clearly you don't know how conspiracy theories work.
the fact that they weren't wearing illuminati sigils proves that it was the stone masons pretending to be illuminati to hide the fact that there were martians disguised as humans running in the marathon.
So what do you call them now, Americans, are these Chechen guys "terrorists" or "freedom fighters"?
They are Islamist, that much certain, so why are they bombing USA, after all USA was probably more on the side of Chechens in their search for independence from Russia (this is of-course about oil, there is oil in Chechnya).
However it is my personal guess that these guys wanted to bring some terror to USA as an asymmetric response to USA being in the Middle East, Afghanistan most likely. What is interesting is that the two brothers (Johar is the younger one) lived in USA as refugees since 2000-2001. What else could be their motivation if not a newly discovered sympathy towards their 'brothers in religion' somewhere in the Afghan mountains, being attacked by the US empire?
I think this is an example of how exactly the war on Terror will backfire just like the war on drugs did with more violence and more drugs.
War on terror creates more terrorists that were just kids just a few years ago. War on drugs creates more drug related violence.
There is an old idea that violence begets violence, I think it's very much true.
You can't handle the truth.
I was going with Octo-mom, myself.
On a serious note, And "this sort of attack, aimed at killing and injuring indiscriminately is the hallmark of ALL TERRORISTS". FTFY.
Refer to Irish Troubles, Tamil Tigers, Shining Path, etc.
Pretty much the only terrorist groups I can think of that avoid civilian casualties are the anti-corporate flavor (Weather Underground).
I know...mod me down as an anti-gun nut. But at least try to make the connection.
The advantage of crowdsourcing is that you get a shit-ton of information quickly, and it gets disseminated just as quickly. Everybody with a cell phone and a social media account has had this stuff in front of them since the bombing. It's great because it happens so fast, and millions of people being on alert can make for a quicker break in the case. It also has the downside of putting up a lot of false positives.
The NRA's stance is that if everyone had a gun, criminals would know not to so bad stuff and if they did there would be someone right there to stop them. It's basically crowd sourcing police/law enforcement work. Yes, there are now lots more people who can intervene with a criminal who is armed and dangerous. Just as everyone with a cell phone can photograph a scene and post the pictures on line for the world to peruse and instantly identify criminals.
Thing is, the more people who are involved, the higher the likelihood of a false positive. In the case of photos and social media, the mis-identified have a reason to be concerned short term, but once the media self-corrects and the correct criminals are identified their lives will slowly get back to normal. When guns are involved, a mis-identified person or bystander doesn't get a new life when the actual criminal is killed. The "oops" is permanent.
If you don't think there isn't the equivalent of 4chan in the vigilante world, you're sorely mistaken. It's part of the human condition to jump to conclusions based on limited evidence and not everyone will have the forethought or presence of mind not to take out someone who they think is about to cause harm to others.
If we used the NRA method of justice, Salah Eddin Barhoum would have been dead before the FBI even published the photos of the actual bombers.
(nb: I am a gun owner)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
How do they know they killed the right guy?
A suspect is not known to be guilty, only circumstantially involved in some way that draws attention the the possibility of guilty involvement, hence the meaning of suspect.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter. Maybe it's better to consider he/they are guilty until proven innocent. It can be sorted out later anyways, right?
I remember watching interview with a Reagan SS agent and a story about a kid who held a water pistol a "threatening manner" and almost got drilled. I suppose he would be a suspect worth taking out to avoid the risk these days.
It's better they call the drones in if they already haven't.
Blue team: Go!
You missed out "racist". They were picking out people based on whether they had brown skin.
Martians! Ha! Everyone knows that the martians were wiped out and replaced by lizard simulants from Draco.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
He's not from _near_ Chechnya. It's not a city, it's a region. They are Chechens. References to "his native Chechnya". (The capital is Grozny).
He doesn't consider himself Russian, and he doesn't think he comes from "the Russian region near Chechnya". It was a de facto republic that Russia regained control of militarily.
He's likely a Sunni muslim, but it's quite possible that isn't really a factor here; this could simply be an international protest bombing regarding the west's stance on Chechen independence. Chechens are Muslims the way that Russians are Orthodox Christians and Americans are Catholic or Calvinist in origin; Islam hasn't as far as I understand it been a feature element of their struggle.
Well Reddit is suffering a massive DDoS, strangely.
Besides, the police said to not leave your home. A huge number of Redditors and Slashdotters won't be affected by this story at all.
Slate is twisting itself in new corners. Now that it seems the bombers are Tjetchen, they are claiming that since they are technically Caucasian, they are white and therefor it ain't brown people just as they said.
EXCEPT that in the shooting of Trevor by a Hispanic guy, suddenly Hispanic does NOT mean your white because they are Caucasian... wow, it certainly seems as if being white and Caucasian are only the same thing if it is convenient. (By the way, this goes for the left and right).
And by the way, slate is NOT left wing, it is the bleeding heart wing. Real left can and often is very hard and most definitely anti-faith.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Oh shush, you aren't helping at all with your reasonable, logical and calm interpretation of fact.
So slashdot should have just ignored any mention of the 9/11 attacks that day and subsequently and stuck to bashing Micro$oft and claiming that 2002 would be the year of the Linux desktop? Really?
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Well, experience suggests that a community of people, which is what the Slashdot commentariat is, are generally likely to want and get involved in a discussion of a major issue of international interest. The large number of comments on this posting demonstrate that, yes, this is one of those things we want to discuss.
So yes, Slashdot certainly should post this.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I suspect that the 'friends' of Johar are now in an unfortunate situation, I am quite certain they will now be facing some government scrutiny, something you don't want to face even in USA but especially in Russia.
What do you think about being 'friends' with somebody on social network sites, isn't it just too convenient for the authorities to go after 'friends' in case they don't like somebody? Imagine the government decides you are an enemy for any reason, all of your their 'social network friends' are immediately suspect. What a pot of gold for the government.
You can't handle the truth.
Why is it always MALES??
I mean, why can't we get more WOMEN into terrorism? We can't seem to get them interested in Engineering, and now it seems we need more equal opportunity for terrorism.
What can be done about this? Sheesh, will the sexism never end for us??
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The other nerdy part, the elephant in the room everyone is dancing around, is how the much vaunted "crowdsourced" media got it wrong - badly so. That part will go down the memory hole as people confuse "the authorities going through the photos from the crowds" with "the crowds going through the photos".
This all looks like a great excuse for the government to take away more of our rights in exchange for security theater.
That said, every person who is alone and carrying a backpack is clearly a terrorist.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
There was a group of military that ran the marathon WITH backpacks on. They were also some of the first to help the wounded. exercise your inner-google. I saw photos that day of that showed them running IN the race.
Take off the tinfoil hat and rejoin reality. It may suck and make no sense at times, but every now and then, you actually get to have some fun. If you are always wearing your tinfoil hat, you will NEVER feel happiness.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
Watch the total absence of the posters who previously seemed to think that it was just as likely to be the tea party
Well, given US history, were they wrong in assuming it was also likely that it was a domestic terrorist? It's not like the US hasn't had its share of home-grown nuts of that kind. It seems rather odd of you to feel vindicated just because you win a coin toss every other try on average.
Watch the total absence of the posters who previously seemed to think that it was just as likely to be the tea party or the Mormon tabernacle choir as Muslims.
It may have been just as likely. And *if* these two turn out to be Muslims, that doesn't mean that those (if any) that suggested those odds were wrong.
Though there have been exceptions this sort of attack, aimed at killing and injuring indiscriminately is the hallmark of Islam.
The US military has killed and injured indiscriminately far more people than Muslim terrorists have. Right through history, from the genocide of the native Americans, through unnecessary nuclear bombings of Japan as a demonstration to Russia, to the invasion of Iraq.
Cue the flood of ACs squealing about how this isn't 'news for nerds'. There have always been a few whiners like that, but the current bumper crop is ridiculous.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
It seems that there might almost be a natural scaling law for multiple sources invoked in a given investigation. With a traditional, established core number of sources, there is more established review of the merits of their reporting. For multiple unestablished or anonymous sources, a certain amount of manpower needed to verify each bias would begin to counter the potential efficiency of crowdsourcing methods. At a certain point, the net gain might cease to scale favourably with numbers, barring emergence of self-organisational practices. How all of this should be taken into consideration when interpreting crowdsourced reports will surely require generations to become known.
The 4chan and MIT aspects of the story do make it "Nerdy".
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
It would be damn hard to motivate anyone against "the west" in those places purely for religious reasons. If you honestly believe that "hatred of the west" in the middle east is unrelated to various, shall we say, interventions, you are as misguided as they are.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
Russian in fact. That should confuse everybody nicely.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
You guessed right, sucks when bigots feel validated through confirmation bias. You were wrong about the Norway attacks though, I remember what you posted in that thread. So, one right, one wrong, you're about as good as a flipped coin.
I was wrong about the Norway attacks. It was one individual, who in my opinion was insane. Now look at the list of terror attacks in 2012 and tell me that putting mas murder down to Muslims is just like flipping a coin. I make it about 17 out of 20, and its only that low because Wikipedia counts things like "a possible second US drone strike has killed two more suspected foreign fighters in northwestern Pakistan", and "Two US drone strikes in the volatile tribal belt of northwest Pakistan killed at least five suspected militants on Friday" as terrorist attacks.
In America, a terrorist suspect is most likely a right-wingnut.
Yes except that's a complete lie given that there were a number of bombings that resulted in deaths and injuries where no warnings were given.
Don't try and pretend there's any difference simply because you're racist, terrorists are terrorists.
And if they're in company, it's a terrorist organization.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
There was a news story about some military unit that ran the full marathon in full gear/with rucksacks.
They finished towards the beginning of the race and were some of the people seen running towards the blasts and removing the barricades to let the first responders get to the victims.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
The problem is that the social media crowd only has a SMALL % of the photos/videos the feds have. Given this, the list of possible targets social media comes up with invariably extends well beyond likely, and quickly delves into the absurd, and unfortunately a select few target strictly because a person is "brown", "middle eastern", "looks like TeaParty" member.
That is why social media is more of a joke in this instance than normal. Also, why the media is a complete and utter joke because they will run ANYTHING as breaking news, and their politics shines through as well with wishes that the bomber is a home grown anti-tax day person. The desire to label the bomber as such was palpable on many news channels/shows.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago. Leave law enforcement to the trained professionals.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Sir, may we have a word with you? We find it highly disturbing that you publish such information.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
look at how long it takes to resolve these isolated instances of chaos, imagine a 1-9 MILLION MAN/WOMAN military from N.Korea - it would be ANARCHY!!
Correlation does not imply causation. Get a grip.
To North Americans maybe. To the rest of the world?
If they kill both of them I can guarantee it won't be in the news in ten days time.
Beer and circuses. Terrorist events have degenerated into a form of mass entertainment to keep us all distracted from the fact that we are all being kept in slavery by a global elite. Who would have thought it?
never take anything the whackydoo at infowars, or any of his brainwashed cronies, says seriously.
even if he says the sky is blue, you better double check first.
that's how crazy he (they) is.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Good luck with that. What with basically every government agency spending their entire budget surplus on ammo (including agencies like the SSA and IRS that don't even have guns to put it in) you'll be lucky to find enough to complete the class.
Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
Correlation does not imply causation. Get a grip.
No, but we can look at the teachings of Islam and the words of muslim clerics to confirm that there is a causation
i smell an inforwars brainwashee.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
there are military at nearly every marathon with backpacks
Heu... Why ?!?
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Perhaps they're converts, like the shoebomber. And who knows if they're their real names?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Are you a Christian, or an Athiest, or what?
Because I'd like to know what random group I should completely alienate on the basis of a single lifestyle choice they happen to share with a terrorist.
Up next: All brown-eyed people are murderers.
Idiot.
"couldn't they use some kind of anaesthetic bullets?"
BATMAN ISN'T REAL.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Yes and giving you the chance to hit an innocent bystander or an on duty officer. I definitely don't want to get shot by some person who thinks he's a hero.
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago. Leave law enforcement to the trained professionals.
What?!? Don't be silly! Enraged vigilante justice is the bestest justice of all! Just like how we identified that cowardly innocent teen trying to hide in the last part of the summary! After all, if he didn't want to feel our wrath, he shouldn't have gone around looking like someone a bunch of 14-year-olds came up with by using pirated versions of face matching software! All hail the faceless mob!
... The ratio of crappy versus good cops seems to go up when you're dealing with rent-a-cops and security, yes ...
Campus police may be real cops, especially so at state schools. At the University of California they are actually equivalent to state police and may patrol areas off campus with large concentrations of students. At my campus when a nearby bank was robbed the UC Police were the first on scene, confronting and containing armed robbers. When a local police officer was shot during a routine traffic stop one night, and the suspect fled into a nearby industrial park, the UC Police, the local police and the police from the neighboring town were searching and clearing the buildings in the park. I forget which department actually found the guy.
Hey, be fair, it's entirely possible that he won't be ambushed. For instance, he could repeatedly miss his target and kill one or more innocent bystanders, like the chuckleheads on Danzig street.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Because it's so much better listening to you whine about ACs.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
Now look at the list of terror attacks in 2012
None of those happened in the USA. Here's a list of Islamic attack attempts in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_extremism_in_the_United_States#attacks_or_failed_attacks_by_date
And here's a far bigger list of all terrorism attempts in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#2010.E2.80.93present
If you guess every terrorism attack in the USA is Islamic, you're going to be wrong more often than you are right.
You might want to check that on snopes.com.
Although I admit it makes for a dramatic story if only it were true. Life isn't fair. The stories that should be true, the ones that sound truthy, don't turn out that way.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It's not necessary to "make fun of" false flag conspiracy theories, they're riotously amusing in and of themselves.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
And a great excuse for the cash registers at the gun manufacturers to start to ring.
Win-win or lose-lose, depending upon whether or not you are a sociopath.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Chance's are you would just make things worse. If someone starts shooting the best response is to get the hell away from there, not to have a gun battle in the street.
Well, I was raised on a farm, and have enjoyed hunting and eating the surplus deer in our neck of the woods. I can tell you that were I "carrying", I would get the hell away from there, then pick 'em off from a distance with my rifle. Not have a gun battle in the street.
Provided, of course, I was sure I knew what or who needed killing.
Although, in real life, blowing people up is kind of dickish behavior, everybody loves watching a good mad bomber media fracas from a safe distance away.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
good luck with that, as the old saying goes: "when you need help in seconds the police is minutes away"
and when you think about it you'll realise that's pretty much a best case scenario (excepting the few true idiots who try to rob a store with a police officer in line behind them that ocasionally turn up on youtube)
Do you have a religion yourself?
... and hide your husbands!
Where are all the people who didn't think it could possibly be a Caucasian?
These two guys were the very essence of caucasian. From the place that gave caucasians their name, in fact.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The link with MIT speaks to why this is news for nerds. Nerds/engineers are probably the most likely suspects in any bombing, being both disenfranchised from the mainstream and having the intelligence to know how to accomplish the engineering required to blow something up.
Korma: Good
Pretty much the only terrorist groups I can think of that avoid civilian casualties are the anti-corporate flavor (Weather Underground).
Wow, these folks do look pretty serious...
Yes except that's a complete lie given that there were a number of bombings that resulted in deaths and injuries where no warnings were given.
.
There were some. As far as I can remember these were aimed at military targets or other paramilitary groups. As I said the IRA were a nasty bunch, they certainly did not try to avoid random casualties when doing this. On occasions they even apologised when there were no warnings, claiming that timers malfunctioned. Were they terrorist? Yes. Was their aim to kill and amim at random? No - but they didn't mind if that was a secondary attack. I'm certainly not saying that this is in any way good, but it is a way to distinguish Muzzies attacks.
Don't try and pretend there's any difference simply because you're racist, terrorists are terrorists.
Really? What race am I discriminating against? What race am I? Go on tell
Are you seriously calling Law Enforcement 'trained professionals'? Lately, some of the arrests/videos/incidents I have seen make me question whether some of these cops should be allowed to drive, much less enforce laws and carry weapons. It seems like instead of safety and peace of mind police like to tote their guns as bolt-on confidence, and love to wave them around for whatever reason they can find.
I would feel a whole lot safer with a well-practiced civilian carrying a gun than the boys in blue who have only the department's weapons training to work with. At least your average civilian isn't going to shoot you unless you start shooting first. Police don't have the same prerequisites to shoot people, and will be let off the hook for just about any shooting, no matter how unjustified. Their trigger finger is especially itchy when they think their uniform makes them a target and everyone is out to get them.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
You don't understand. The media will be on this for MONTHS. Or at least until another mass murder or terrorist attack happens. It won't surprise me if there's a movie on it. Everyone wants a piece on this tragedy. 20/20 will have a special on this tonight. CNN will milk the SHIT outta this. Its what happens here. I can't stand it. I go to 7/11 in the morning to get my coffee and its whats on the news on both screens. Head to the bar after work for a beer and its there too. I haven't owned TV in five years because of the media. Our entire country is focused on bad news. It sucks.
I'm not sure how you got the idea that I'm defending this. I'm just saying, to chrisq in this case, there's more to it than religious wingnuttery.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
Look at the IRA's death toll. Apparently, they were whispering those "warnings" up the Bishop's ass.
There's not that much difference between the IRA and Al Qaeda. Both self-righteous religious murderers.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Again, is there any news of an Al Qaeda link in this attack or are you talking out of your ass? Is there any info that these Chechens have friends in Pakistan or do you just want to blow up some Pakistanis for no reason?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I bet that's exactly what the Boston Marathon bombers told each other.
It's a common greeting among assholes.
You are welcome on my lawn.
If you stick your finger into the mouth of a snapping turtle, and the snapping turtle bites it off, and then I point out that in retrospect sticking your finger in the mouth of the snapping turtle was a bad idea, am I "defending" the snapping turtle? If you cut down a tree while standing where it's going to fall, and it falls on you, and I point out that it's best to figure out where the tree is going to fall before you start cutting, are you going to accuse me of "defending" the tree?
Inflicting mayhem on large populations will, statistically, produce some number of people who are so pissed off that they will strike back. This is true whether they are Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Cult of the Yellow Sign or Pastafarian. The people from these populations who subsequently act on their anger and inflict new mayhem on new innocents don't get to say "it's okay, we're just getting revenge." But we can certainly say "gosh, it might have been better not to inflict that kind of damage on a large population; maybe we should try to fix what damage we can, and not do that in the future." That's not "defending terrorists."
A story covering MIT, with people allegedly trying to bomb MIT? I'd say yes, it's news for nerds. Is someone trying to bomb Mecca news for Muslims?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Hide your backpack! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
Yes, unfortunately that list also for some unknown reason (well I lie, it's not known, that list has been produced by someone with a bias) completely missing many other incidents.
There were in the same period attacks that would also fall under the lose definition used (or even a much tighter definition) of terrorist attacks by Shining Path rebels in Peru, Farc rebels in Colombia, Buddhists in Burma (against muslims), PIRA in Ireland, Hindus in India (against muslims). I could probably go on if I bother to Google for other parts of the world that the Western press rarely gives a fuck about but there's little point given that there's enough here to run a bulldozer over the worthfulness of that list.
Further, it seems a little odd to take a list so many attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq and pretend they're somehow evidence of muslims being somehow a problematic grouping of people without considering the context of those attacks and that they were triggered by the actions of Bush and Blair's modern Christian crusades and that most attacks are against other muslims so are as much demonstrative of civil war, than terrorism.
But anyway, I don't know why I'm bothering, you've made enough posts in response to enough stories that have absolutely no relevance to Islam proclaiming your hate for it for it to be obvious you are a fully signed up far right propagandist and hence inherently unable to think rationally or converse sensibly on this topic, but I guess for the benefit of others, perhaps they can at least see that terrorism happens globally, and that muslims are as much victims as they are perpetrators. You only have to look at the suffering muslims faced in Afghanistan in the 80s by the USSR, and Chechnya as a result of Putin's policies for example to see that they haven't exactly had an easy ride themselves. You may think a few attacks in the West are evidence of some horrible group of people far worse than anyone else, but here's an idea - why not go live somewhere like Burma, or Islamic areas of India for a while and then tell me they're the bad guys not the victims - you don't know what terrorism is unless you've seen or bothered to even read about how some of these communities suffer daily.
Two Caucasians. Suck it shit for brains.
What, are you some sort of racist? What has race got to do with it?
Before you buy products or visit restaurants, do you read online reviews on sites like Amazon and Yelp? How do you feel about that fact that many of the positive ones are shills, and negative ones are from competitors and disgruntled ex-employees?
You use it, but take each item with a grain of salt.
Nope, Doc says I can't use them then. Low sodium diet.
OMG, Wikipedia doesn't affirm our right to commit acts of terror^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hjustified attacks on civilian populations! They think it doesn't matter who commits that attack—that it's always wrong. Where are the moral relativists when you need them?
Sometimes running isn't an option if you can't exceed thousands of fps. Lets say you're in an alley, and a guy across it gets blown away by someone around the corner. The criminal rounds the corner and starts to bring his weapon to bear. A firearm would at least giveyou a chance....albeit not a good one per say. Slightly different scenario on a residential street....not that different.
The IRA put bombs in pubs and Burger Kings, with nothing resembling a "warning" issued and with there being little point in planting them unless the aim was to kill civilians, primarily or secondarily.
Frankly I'm tried of hearing people on this side of the Atlantic give them a pass simply because they were made up predominantly of Christians and because their cause is sympathetic. They were (and the remaining pockets who've continued to fight since the peace agreements of the 1990s still are) murderous thugs. At best, you can argue they weren't as lethal, with fewer people killed and with no attempt to drag in unrelated countries into their bitter dispute. But yes, as a Brit living in Britain for the first 25 years of my life, there was a target on my back - not as big as it was for soldiers, police, and everyone from construction workers to bankers considered by some arbitrary definition to be helping the British in Northern Ireland, but it was there.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
What I really don't understand about this Conceal Carry mentality is how the police and/or other 'knuckle-heads packing heat' know how to distinguish you from the real bad guy... the way I see the scene playing out is Bad guy becomes apparent... hero A draws his piece to defend society (and hopefully inflict no collateral damage)... hero B arrives on the scene and now has two targets to choose from... repeat ad nauseam.
You do realize that the real objective is to bring the suspect to justice (and justice does not necessarily mean kill them)... right?
What you choose to do in your own house is one matter. In public, like other posters have said, leave this to the trained professionals.
Yes and giving you the chance to hit an innocent bystander or an on duty officer. I definitely don't want to get shot by some person who thinks he's a hero.
There are so many officers crawling around Watertown and its environs that Friendly Fire is a major concern, even though many of them belong to units that have been trained to work in co-ordination. I don't think they'd be too happy to have a loose cannon in the mix as well. Not when the bombers have already shown themselves to be full-on rabid, throwing explosives, apparently wired up with vests, firing all over the place. I mean the one guy apparently ran over his own brother.
And definitely, facing him down man-to-man OK Corral-style isn't a clever thing to attempt. The cops wouldn't. They've had enough trouble barricaded and firing in teams.
Do you have a religion yourself?
Yes but I am not going to say what it is because to do so in a public forum where I criticise Islam might lead to attacks on others. To anticipate your next point - Yes members of my religion have suggested that there should be revenge attacks on Muslims. But when they did religious leaders quickly made sure everyone knew that it was against the teachings of the religion. One said "you might as well convert to Islam and follow the dog Muhammad as go and attack Muslims".
If you want to see the leading edge of CT-nuttery, Alex Jones is not your guy. The absolute brain-melting display of sheer idiocy is happening at cluesforum and godlikeproductions these days. The nutters are already convinced that the whole bombing did not actually happen and the victims were actors, because one guy with a leg wound did not have enough blood on his socks. Also because of walrus. Or something. That's the level these idiots are on now...
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Hey how come you forgot to mention these are Chechen Bagger NRA loving bible thumpers huh?
"Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was killed in a shootout"
That is not known, it is quite possible he died of bast from his suicide vest at the hospital or on the way, It is believed his last words were "I love the NRA, hold by beer and watch this!"
Fuckwads.
He was apparently shot full of more holes than a Swiss cheese, run over by an SUV, and detonated a suicide device. It may take a while to figure out what actually killed him.
Don't try and pretend there's any difference simply because you're racist, terrorists are terrorists.
Since when is the Muslim religion a race?
http://vk.com/id160300242
You could see that pretty clearly in the completely unprofessional reaction to the Dorner incident in Los Angeles: not what you'd expect from a well-trained police force.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
When I was growing up in the UK we had 3 TV channels and the radio. The thought of live streaming video (well, apparently on a delay in case there's too much violence) from America over the internet onto a mobile phone would have sounded like the wildest science fiction.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
"There were some. As far as I can remember these were aimed at military targets or other paramilitary groups."
Then you can't remember very far and should probably avoid the topic given that fact.
"Really? What race am I discriminating against? What race am I? Go on tell"
Look, I don't play games. I have zero respect for people who like to pretend they're the good citizen, that they're objective, fair, sensible, rational individuals and that this is nothing to do with race because they "have friends who are muslim" and so on. I prefer to call a spade a spade, and you're likely discriminating against people who aren't white caucasian Westerners. Even if you were an anomally and it's not about race for you, then the fact you generalise 1.3bn people as all being the same still doesn't exactly paint you in any better a light. It still fully paints you with the same level of idiocy so it's by the by, it doesn't matter, you're either a racist or as bad as one because however you cut it you still have that simplistic feeble mindset.
If you hold a political view at least have the courage of your convictions to accept it and admit you're part of the far right and a fascist. Acting as something whilst you're pretending to be another just defines you as a coward who doesn't have enough faith in his beliefs to stand behind them. It says that deep down you want to be a reasonable member of society but you know you're letting your anger and hatred based on your primalistic tribalism take control rather than an ability to pursue rational thought but that you can't control it, because you're mentally weak, and hence, so are your arguments.
there are military at nearly every marathon with backpacks
Heu... Why ?!?
do you know what military training mainly consists of? hiking around with backpacks.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I grew up in southie. Moved to upstate NH years ago. Its crazy how different things are up here. If there was a manhunt looking for someone with bombs and guns I can assure you we wouldn't be taking cover in our homes. We'd be on our porches ready. The news stories would be completely different I assure you.
Yes, I imagine the number of additional police and civilian casualties would be much, much higher.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
The US military has killed and injured indiscriminately far more people than Muslim terrorists have. Right through history, from the genocide of the native Americans, through unnecessary nuclear bombings of Japan as a demonstration to Russia, to the invasion of Iraq.
Armies do that. The difference is that unlike terrorists, they usually make their intentions plain beforehand. And they don't do it out of personal beliefs, they do it because they were ordered to to it.
endurance training... like a long march, only maybe somewhat fun...
OK, now I know where your bigotry comes from. A plague on both your houses. Rational people don't believe in invisible friends.
Is that because you think false flag attacks don't happen?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Race doesn't motivate people to do anything, doctrine does. Whether that's secular doctrine or religious doctrine is immaterial. So they're white, but it's more important that they're radicalized Muslim converts, since that's what motivated them to kill innocent people. It's not like they woke up one day, looked at themselves in the mirror and said, 'shit, I'm white, better go blow up some kids.' What they did do is read things like the Quran's surah 9:5, the verse of the sword telling them to "[...] slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. [...]" Unless they convert of course. Convert or die, the divine command of the prophet of the "religion of peace".
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
If you can't understand that most muslims are non-white caucasian and that most islamophobes single out muslims over other arguably worse, but same race killers (like Adam Lanza and friends) because they are racist, even if they can't admit it deep down, then I can't really help you understand why I said what I said and the reason I said it for.
The likes of the IRA, the far right, and ETA have killed far more in the West than muslims in recent decades yet they are not singled out in the same manner, and the reason is simply the underlying racism towards the ethnic groups that primarily comprise the muslim population.
like how China respects Falun Gong.
New Economic Perspectives
Frankly, I hope they catch the second shooter, flay him alive, and then blow his friends in Pakistan to pieces. It's the only way we'll be able to stop them.
Good thinking, creating a martyr is bound to damage the terrorists' cause immeasurably.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Someone is doing it, because the scarcity of available of ammunition is certainly true.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
... because the military is full of people, and (because of the training) a large amount of them enjoy running and the like?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
If government could be trusted to serve the people and to be genuinely transparent in its activities AND if we had a MSM which still acted as the "fourth estate" rather than serving as the propaganda wing of the establishment, there wouldn't BE an 'infowars.com'
When they act in their own self interest and exploit sensational incidents like 9-11 and falsify intelligence data to pursue a pre-planned political agenda (Patriot Act, warrantless surveillance, Iraq War, etc.) it raises natural doubts as to the truth of any narrative they try to sell. The media is largely complicit, for instance in selling the 'WMD' story.
This is a good point. More and more people don't trust what government spokespeople tell them because they have been mislead in the past. It's not to say they are always lying or deceiving, but that their statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
Sadly, I think the sociopaths who control our government would be more than willing to hurt innocent Americans to further their objectives. The coincidence of this attack with tax day and the active gun control debate definitely had me concerned about the possibility.
Unfortunately, I agree there are elements of our government that would resort to such measures. It has been done before, such as when the military or CIA have run experiments on unsuspecting civilians, or plans like Operation Northwoods (though that wasn't carried out). This particular case (the marathon bombing) doesn't strike me that way though. It seems more like disaffected youth or some such. We'll have to wait and see.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
As evidenced at the Marathon there were lots of trained people with guns and it did nothing to stop the event. So at least we agree there.
As evidenced last night, however, the only people that were injured/killed by these two were people with guns. The guy they carjacked who presumably didn't put up much of a fight was released without physical harm. Had he had a gun and tried to resist them do you really think he'd be telling his story given the rest of the surrounding events?
I don't advocate just laying down and taking it, but this idea of "I have a gun so I can protect myself" is just stupid. Even if you have all the proper training to deal with such a situation (which by the way is mostly about how to get out of it without using the gun) there is just no guaranty of you coming out the other side OK. Furthermore it takes a special kind of mentality to actually take someone's life (rather than just talking about how you'd be able to do it) which most people just don't have and this leads to hesitation. Hesitation in situations where firing a gun is warranted leads to bad outcomes. Your 2 day CC class isn't going to do anything but give you a false sense of security that is more likely to get you or an innocent hurt or killed.
I'm all for owning guns and using them responsibly (both in the owning and using), but it's idiots like you lend validity to the anti-gun-nuts arguments.
Hide your kids, hide your wife!
That's strange, coming from "adult film producer." I would expect you to suggest we do something else with our wives.
Battlemaster--Game with friends in medival realms
Online stores are showing no shortage.
Wal-mart is showing no shortage.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The events in Boston are far far from the same magnitude of the 9/11 attacks. They don't even compare.
The Boston bombs are like any Tuesday in Baghdad or Damascus, or in Northern Ireland back in the '80s.
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
You have got a point.
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
But if the goal is to run 42km as fast as you can, you don't carry a backpack. And why would you even dress as a military if you participate on your own ? They don't run marathon on an official status, now do they ? They have training grounds for that. Well, it wouldn't be the 1st time I completely fail to understand the military 'mind'.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Brutes only understand the language of brutality. They only respect power and despise weakness. If we crush them militarily, they won't hate us -- they will love and fear us in their own sick way.
Ever seen how Arabs fawn all over Putin on state visits? They only respect crushing, overwhelming power. They're barbarians, don't try and reason about them.
The problem isn't terror, it's the fact that this numbnut is trying to conduct a running firefight in the city, trying to avoid the police he's been shooting and trying to place bombs where he can. He's an indiscriminate killer and may be wearing a suicide vest on top of that. There are police all over trying to catch this clown, but crowds of people will complicate their jobs and give the nutjob more targets. We're not staying inside from fear, we're trying to help them do their jobs.
Stepping out from the middle of an active firefight isn't being terrorized, it's common sense. When the manhunt is over -- and I don't expect it to take long -- we're going back to our lives. And I predict a record turnout for next year's marathon.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
Thank You. Regardless of religion or political stance people will always murder, rape, terrorize other people. We are a violent race who haven't evolved enough.
"Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago. Leave law enforcement to the trained professionals."
Oh the cognitive dissonance is great with this one.
Gee, you'd think that if guns were so dangerous that just holding one is likely to kill you, the cops would want the bad guys to have lots of them.
But the truth is they don't, and they aren't, especially if you train and prepare as you are supposed to, and have good aim.
But you go ahead drone and hide behind your couch, I'll be busy protecting myself and my family.
One of the main reasons Hitler did not use poison gas in WWII battlefields (besides his love for all of humanity) was that gas has one huge disadvantage: It is unpredictable and very often comes back to kill YOU.
Pepper spray (as an example for something that is actively used) works because either
- riot police shoot it into the crowd from a safe distance, and they use LOTS of it because they don't care about whom they hit with it
- you are about 10 inches from the person you want to defend against and spray it directly into their face.
This must be the day of the "most impracticable solution" contest :-)
Yes. This site is part commercial and part community-driven. Discussion about the content has a place on a community-driven site.
And yes, I also answered the last Slashdot survey about what they wanted their readers to read about on Slashdot. They asked me. They want the input. That was a month or two ago, I'm sorry if you missed it.
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
Hey, be fair, it's entirely possible that he won't be ambushed. For instance, he could repeatedly miss his target and kill one or more innocent bystanders, like the chuckleheads on Danzig street.
Did you link the wrong thing or are you, to be kind, misreading incredibly badly? That's an article from Canada. Known as one of the anti-rights, gun control, people's utopias. There is effectively no concealed carry. There gun laws out the ass. Canada is frequently pointed out as "the way it should be!"
Yet, you put in a link to a gang shooting with 25 victims, two dead. While trying to say that Concealed Carriers shoot up innocent bystanders. Way to go.
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
At least in a residential street you can attempt to find cover.
The problem I have with the CCW mentality is in the ones who seem to think their weapon magically will spring to their hand and bear down accurately on their target in less the second someone who's already drawn takes to pull the trigger. CCW means that you're weapon is concealed, which by definition means it won't be the easiest thing to get to . This is going to add precious seconds to that draw.
Online stores are showing no shortage.
Wal-mart is showing no shortage.
What online stores and wal-marts have you been going to? LoL.
When you can't even find bricks of .22LR I'd say there's a bit of a shortage.
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
If you can't understand that most muslims are non-white caucasian and that most islamophobes single out muslims over other arguably worse, but same race killers (like Adam Lanza and friends) because they are racist, even if they can't admit it deep down, then I can't really help you understand why I said what I said and the reason I said it for.
If there was a group that followed Adam Lanza, regularly announced that they would carry out similar attacks and in practice did so, I would certainly speak out against them too.
The reason you get push-back is that you lump an entire religion (Islam) in with a relative few who cause violence. I agree that what goes on in some Muslim countries is backward from my view. But when you talk about an entire religion with over a billion adherents, most of whom are peaceful, it makes you sound like a bigot. The issue really is religious fundamentalism, whether it be Muslim, Jewish, Christian or Hindu. They have all killed people using religion as their justification.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Who said anything about Law Enforcement? A CCW is about personal protection when LEO isn't around.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
The IRA put bombs in pubs and Burger Kings, with nothing resembling a "warning" issued and with there being little point in planting them unless the aim was to kill civilians, primarily or secondarily.
Frankly I'm tried of hearing people on this side of the Atlantic give them a pass simply because they were made up predominantly of Christians and because their cause is sympathetic. They were (and the remaining pockets who've continued to fight since the peace agreements of the 1990s still are) murderous thugs. At best, you can argue they weren't as lethal, with fewer people killed and with no attempt to drag in unrelated countries into their bitter dispute. But yes, as a Brit living in Britain for the first 25 years of my life, there was a target on my back - not as big as it was for soldiers, police, and everyone from construction workers to bankers considered by some arbitrary definition to be helping the British in Northern Ireland, but it was there.
The IRA did not appear out of a vacuum. They were a response to the systematic abuse of the native Irish by the British. They may have been nasty but they were in no sense religiously motivated. As usual, one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.
If you look at most "attacks" you'll find that the individuals are usually part of a relatively small group and are, in most people's opinion, insane.
Yet you are happy to group them all together on what you suspect their religion may be. Terrorism is an economic crime. People become "terrorists" because, rightly or wrongly, they believe they are oppressed/wronged and they do not have the finances to set up their own country and/or army to peruse a war. Terrorism seems a good option to them because it can have a large impact with much lower costs. (Other than lives, and as insane fanatics they don't value them as much.)
Their god-dammed religion is only a convenient handle for them to give their action a 'higher' justification and an illusion of wider support, and idiots like you grasping that handle play right into their hands.
Right so you now regularly intend to speak out against Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, and far right extremism because they do carry out similar attacks across the globe?
Give this, why do you single out Islam?
You can't generalize amongst a billion people. You just can't, and be accurate. http://www.emuslim.com/islamagainstVoilence.asp
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Just curious.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Right so you now regularly intend to speak out against Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, and far right extremism because they do carry out similar attacks across the globe?
Give this, why do you single out Islam?
If any of them regularly called for this violence and attacks then yes. Actually the level of Christian, Hindu and Buddhist attacks are much less than those of Muslims.
Yup they made a huge and horrible mistake... no one can deny and I expect that the officers have nightmares about that incident.
However, it is only marginally related to the preceding Conceal and Carry comments. Do you really expect that Billy-Bob packing a gun and a boner would have don any better in a similar high-stress and very confusing situation? I mean honestly!
I'm expect that we may have to agree to disagree on this... I'll still put my faith in the cops.
I called several gun stores, shooting ranges, hunting stores etc in my area and I found a whopping 3 boxes of .30 available. In northeast Atlanta.
If I want to buy it online these days, I'm going to be buying it by the case. I don't have $700 to spend on ammunition, and I don't want a 2,000 round case either.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
NBC is saying they are linked to the Islamic Jihad Union, an "affiliate" of al Quaida. For what it's worth.
There's not that much difference between the IRA and Al Qaeda. Both self-righteous religious murderers.
Well, you're half right, there's not much difference. But in both cases, their prime motivation is being pissed off at foreign imperialism, not religion. The reason there's a Catholic/Protestant division in the Irish troubles? It's because the British were protestant, and the Irish Catholic. The IRA was trying to kill Britons, its just that Britons and Protestant were synonymous in Catholic Ireland.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
Oh wise one, please enlighten us to how Tea Party members are terrorists.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Conceal Carry isn't about being a hero. It's about being a survivor.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Geez, I've been reading this page and it looks like knows exactly who these guys are, their political affiliations and motivations for the bombings. When I went to bed last night there weren't even decent pictures of these guys and we just got their names this mornings. Their high-school friends have no idea why they did this. Their father hasn't said -- and may not know -- why they did it. Neither brother has explained their motivations and one of them never will.
Give it time. We don't have nearly enough information yet, so if everyone could just vacate their pulpit-of-preference until we do we might be able to raise the signal-to-noise ratio around here.
Thanks.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
"Read the Qur'an and listen to the words of Muslim clerics and you will see how anyone who believes in tolerance, equality, justice for all, and freedom of expression should opose Islam"
But that's just it isn't it? These things are all open to interpretation and whatever is said in the Koran, or by extremist preachers is really irrelevant - that says nothing about the followers as a whole, that does nothing to justify your generalisation of all 1.3bn muslims.
As I have pointed out to you, right now there are Buddhists attacking and killing muslims in places like Burma, do you really not see that even if the teachings of Buddhism can be interpreted in such a way as to justify violence that anything can? That it's not the text, that kills people, it's simply people who are often brought up in a world of turmoil, violence, and anger - the same sort of anger you're preaching, which is precisely the type of anger that creates far right extremists. You seem entirely oblivious that your distortion of the facts, your preaching of select points and ideas (i.e. you never make mention of the billion odd muslims who behave and even do genuine good in the world) is exactly the same as what those Islamic preachers you so hate do?
You may think you're doing right, you may think you're doing good, but in reality you're exactly the same as the likes of Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada, you just thankfully haven't found the platform and hence do not have the listeners to do the same damage they do.
Are you really so oblivious to the fact you're doing exactly what they do in generalising about muslims as they generalise about Westerners and preaching hate towards them? If you don't recognise this then tell me, what do you think is different? the mere fact your preaching hasn't led to a terrorist incident yet but theirs has?
And a great excuse for the cash registers at the gun manufacturers to start to ring.
that's probably the only reason that there's no gun control in the US. those gun manufacturers are very generous to politicians. They have very deep pockets.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
Unless you have been to a concealed carry class, you should just STFU.
A MAJOR part of the class is about protocols, how to interact with LEOs, how to decide when you should become involved, what to do when LEOs do arrive, etc.
Conceal Carry is about protecting yourself, not being a vigilante. Turn of Rachel Madow and Chrissy Mathews and find out for yourself.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Do you really want someone to list all the innocent bystanders shot by police? Or for that matter the technically guilty but non dangerous people like Sal Culosi? At least private accidental shooters are held accountable for it.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
Are you so oblivious to cause and effect that you think it's "random" that people who ascribe to a religion the central doctrine of which commands them to "[...]slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. [...]" (Quran 9:5)? These people are doing what their sacred text tells them to do. It's not a coincidence, it's not random, and it's as much a "lifestyle choice" as a serial killer. Stop picking on serial killers, you insensitive bigots! It's a "lifestyle choice"!
You're the idiot.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
Because they are muslims, not christians. Based on the reports I can find right now, but it's early yet.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago.
So if he has a concealed carry permit, how will they know to ambush him? Are they psychic?
If they are already shooting the area up, they aren't ambushing him and he has a weapon to protect himself.
Stuff happens: 80 Year Old Michigan Homeowner Fights Off FIVE Armed Robbery Suspects Using Handgun
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
three words: no pizza delivery
But if the goal is to run 42km as fast as you can, you don't carry a backpack. And why would you even dress as a military if you participate on your own ? They don't run marathon on an official status, now do they ? They have training grounds for that. Well, it wouldn't be the 1st time I completely fail to understand the military 'mind'.
well, there could be multiple reasons. like just showing off, they're not competing to finish it first but fast marching without packs isn't that good for bragging(they weren't there to "run"). as to other reasons there's the possibility for billing the time on the military or being paid bonus for doing it, extra leave or whatever.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Yes, they are "trained professionals" --- and out of a gigantic pool of trained professionals, you still get a lot of fatal idiocy. If you think think unleashing a bunch of gun-totin' civilians (each personally convinced they are the sharpest shooter and most level-headed adjudicator of human conflict) is going to have better results than this, you're completely looney. Handing over the same corrupting power --- a license to kill --- to any panicky racist hick, with an itchy trigger finger for vigilante justice, who fills out the forms won't make the world safer.
They were probably getting low on cash and also getting used to using violence to accomplish their needs.
MIT is a relatively open campus with many places to hide out. The younger brother probably knew his way around having attended school in Cambridge.
Doesn't matter at all. The damage to one's reputation has already been done, much like once you're accused of being a pedo, that stink sticks around a long long time. This kind of crowdsourced BS is just a fancy new buzzword for mob justice/mob rule with all the negatives that entails.
So the line every week waiting on the very small delivery of new ammo that then sells out at 3-10x last year's price as fast as the clerk can ring up the purchases is my imagination? All the usual online sources saying "yeah, sorry, we don't have anything" too? Good to know.
Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
Don't forget the IRA and their fundraisers in various US cities, including Boston.
The IRA were nasty. They wanted to cause alarm and panic, and they didn't mind too much if bystanders got hurt. But unlike the Muslims they did issue warnings. The killing and maiming was a not the primary aim, the panic and disruption was.
Yeah, it was just bad luck when a bomb they planted killed someone wasn't it?
Please.
The PIRA had the Public Relations sense to claim that they always gave adequate warnings and/or that they only ever targeted members of the army or police, but there were plenty of civilians who were maimed or killed anyway.
When they bombed pubs in Guildford because they were popular with squaddies, oddly enough there were civilians in those pubs too.
I suppose they had to at least appear "reasonable" terrorists in order to continue fleecing their braindead supporters in the US, who might have balked at the thought that their money was paying to cripple women and children.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/04/19/tamerlan_tsarnaev_dead_bombing_suspect_i_don_t_have_a_single_american_friend.html says he is muslim.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
I'm going to go build my own news site ... with blackjack ... and hookers. In fact, forget the news!
I am officially gone from
News for Nerds is just a slogan. It doesn't mean anything.
The bombers are Chechens, not ethnic Russians. Chechnya is a part of Russia that is largely Muslum, north of the Middle East. They have been waging an Islamist insurgency intermittently since 1994. Chechens have been responsible for other terror attacks including the Dubrovka Theater attack that killed 130 hostages and the Beslan massacre that killed 334, including 156 children There are claims 100 or more victims of Beslan were burned alive.
I've never heard of Rachel & Chrissy.
Thanks to your comment, I took a quick look at Conceal & Carry training requirements (http://www.concealedcarryclass.net/)
The 'standards' vary considerably... in some states, you can complete your training in 1-2 hours (via an online course); others require up to 15hrs (Texas).
In Rhode Island, the training is expected to between 30min - 2 hrs.
Yup... that makes me feel a *lot* better about Conceal & Carry
Personally I hope the FSB and CIA start working together on the 'Islam' problem.
Is that like the Jewish problem? Someone tried to take care of that a while back too.
Nicely done, Kilfarsnar! you have made a valid point, yet avoided triggering Godwin's law.
Bullshit. Most of the last decades terrorism attempts (including mass shootings) have been by insane people. A small minority have an identifiable ideology, and most of those have been left wing (If they are pro-socialism, whatever else their beliefs, they are closer to the left than to the right). Chris Dorner, Andrew Joseph Stack, James von Brunn. I'm sure there are others out there. However, I recognize that it's not valid to judge other members of a vast swath of people by the actions of an insane minority.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
Are you seriously calling Law Enforcement 'trained professionals'? Lately, some of the arrests/videos/incidents I have seen
And what percentage of all arrests in the entire country are these example a portion of? Compared to what percentage of civilian shooting?
Did you link the wrong thing or are you, to be kind, misreading incredibly badly? That's an article from Canada. Known as one of the anti-rights, gun control, people's utopias. There is effectively no concealed carry. There gun laws out the ass. Canada is frequently pointed out as "the way it should be!"
So, it doesn't count because it's Canada, or more people with guns shooting through a crowd of people would have somehow led to fewer people being shot?
Yet, you put in a link to a gang shooting with 25 victims, two dead. While trying to say that Concealed Carriers shoot up innocent bystanders. Way to go.
Concealed carriers don't shoot up innocent bystanders. People with guns shooting at other people often hit innocent bystanders. It doesn't matter whether it's police, criminals, or concealed carriers doing the shooting. Idiots with guns are trouble, no matter who they are.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
I'll try to clear a bit of that up. Some soldiers, even when off-duty, love to be seen in their uniforms. They are proud of who they are, the organization that they serve, and want everyone to know it. True pride in thier work if you will because that is a core principle ingrained in them during training. The backpackers aren't typically running with their gear, as was originally mentioned they are walking along side. Some to just get that road march type training in, sometimes because they are EMT volunteers so they carry appropriate gear, and sometimes just as a show of solidairity and support. Also there can and have been events like that where a military person could have been participating, sponsored by his unit. I don't know if this marathon in particular consisted of those but you can't rule it out. Post 911 at least, it has been general policy of the military though to not wear your uniform in public unless you are enroute to work. This is to minimize attacks of opportunity and as general operation security protocol. Some don't heed that advice however, possibly because of the "romantic" visions of the WW2 days where soldiers were loved and respected by the public and they wish to try and revive that spirit. Again that's a pride thing. Hope that helps.
Try stopping by a Walmart or a major sporting goods store (such as Bass Pro Shop - there are a couple in greater Chicagoland ) and check their inventory of .22 long rifle, .223, and maybe a few other random popular calibers. If they have any, ask them how long it lasts. Although it is possible that things are slowing down, and maybe things are different in your area, you might very well see mostly empty shelves and/or allocations of 1 box per customer per day. Over the last several months it has been pretty common for on-line ammunition retailers to have an entire shipment of popular ammunition sell out within minutes to hours. A big part of the problem is like Yogi Berra's lament: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Nobody can buy ammunition anymore because everybody is buying it.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
What an odd thing to conclude. Once can believe in asteroid impacts, yet not believe that Nibiru is about to cause a planetary catastrophe.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
You're the one who's willing to believe in a very specific version of events from a single authority on the basis of scant evidence.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Hey how come you forgot to mention these are Chechen Bagger NRA loving bible thumpers huh?
"Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was killed in a shootout"
That is not known, it is quite possible he died of bast from his suicide vest at the hospital or on the way, It is believed his last words were "I love the NRA, hold by beer and watch this!"
Fuckwads.
*NEWS FLASH* They are muslims. They are Koran thumpers. Real bible thumpers do go around killing people. Also belonging to the NRA does not mean that you would go around shooting other people. Some people like to go to shooting club ranges and fire their guns there while others are hunters. Suicide vest? Read your damn bible, suicide is forbidden in the bible. I think you are confusing the bible and the Koran. The former has commandments against lying and killing whereas the latter encourages doing both if they are non-muslim. Jesus taught us to love our enemies.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
The region of Russia they are from has a lot of Islamic terrorist activity.
Also the web page didn't just say he was a muslim, it also included the phrase "There is no God but Allah, let that ring out in our hearts". More than a hint...
What is sad is that it seems like the younger kid was led into this by the older brother, but in the end everyone is responsible for what they do.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Heaping unlikely and overly specific scenario on top of unlikely scenario is insightful?
I completely disagree. Or rather, if you meant he shouldn't try to find a situation, sure. However, if a situation begins unfolding in front of you, fuck leaving the anything to anyone, if you can jump in and help in the moment, you do it. Whether thats putting pressure on a wound, or dropping a shooter before he takes down someone else. Leave the manhunt to the professionals, when shit unfolds before your eyes, react to the situation however makes the most sense.
Seriously, its unlikely that he or any specific person will EVER end up in such a situation, but being prepared for it is no stupider than being prepared for a fire or earth quake. Seeking it out, thats crazy and stupid, but, there is a big difference between seeking it out, and seeking out the ability to be prepared should it happen.
Though, I tend to think guns are overkill, and as you point out, leave (open the possibility of further arming an assailent. I would advocate teaching everyone basic self defence.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Thank You. Regardless of religion or political stance people will always murder, rape, terrorize other people. We are a violent race who haven't evolved enough.
What about evolution makes you think peacefulness is the best survival trait?
most islamophobes single out muslims over other arguably worse, but same race killers (like Adam Lanza and friends)
I think there's a good reason for that. Adam Lanza didn't go out to preach "Follow my example, kill other people" the same way that Muhammad did. Lanza was a single, isolated loony. You're always going to have a few mentally problematic individuals (just like with congenital disorders). Islam, on the other hand, is contagious.
Ezekiel 23:20
Islamic terrorists in the west are most normally suicide bombers.
That wasn't true of the earlier car bombing attempts of the WTC, or also the times square car bomb. In fact very few terrorist attacks are suicide attacks.
Furthermore, this very much has the signature of Islamic terrorism in that the bomb used (pressure cooker) was directly from an AL Quidea manual. While anyone might have read the Al Quidea manual on bomb making, what is the simplest answer that follows from that?
Combine the pressure cooker info with both suspects coming from a heavily Islamic region of Russia, and one of them stating on the web he was a Muslim. The picture is pretty clear for those that don't want to ignore the obvious answer for some reason.
They don't seem to have been with any particular group, but it's pretty obvious the motive was simply "Jihad".
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I prefer to carry around a bottle of homemade chili liquid. You can put it in a little plastic bottle similar to what is used for eye drops (just don't mix them up!) and squirt it at your assailant's face.
It's even better paired with, "and unless you find the commonly available antidote within 15 minutes, you'll lose all vision permanently."
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
He was apparently shot full of more holes than a Swiss cheese, run over by an SUV, and detonated a suicide device. It may take a while to figure out what actually killed him.
Shame?
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
English doesn't follow formal logic rules. "And" can mean "logical and" or "inclusive or" (both "and" and "or" can mean "inclusive or") depending on context.
So, it doesn't count because it's Canada, or more people with guns shooting through a crowd of people would have somehow led to fewer people being shot?
It mainly doesn't count because you're attempting to compare and equate a group who makes a life of breaking the law and semi-indiscriminate violence to a group that is generally more law abiding than the general public and frequently more so than the police and with lower incidents of violence.
Concealed carriers don't shoot up innocent bystanders. People with guns shooting at other people often hit innocent bystanders. It doesn't matter whether it's police, criminals, or concealed carriers doing the shooting. Idiots with guns are trouble, no matter who they are.
Your point about crossfire is true, but unless you can point up a case where it's happened with concealed carriers I'm not sure it is a valid comparison. In the cases where CCWs have had to defend themselves there aren't any that I'm aware of where innocents have been hit.
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
You know who else is in favor of gun control? One of the suspects (Ok, I'll grant an alternate reading is that he really like cheese). After all, it creates even more of a "target rich environment" when you can be sure those you intend to slaughter cannot resist.
Meanwhile, everyone else in Boston today would all be better of if they were armed, as there is an armed suspect on the loose. The houses that aren't are just potential safe houses for him.
Having a gun for self protection is like wearing a seatbelt. 99% of the time it's totally pointless. But when you need it, you REALLY need it. Further gun control is like trying to place rules around who can wear a seatbelt and when they are allowed to wear it. Just stupid.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I understand what you're saying. My issue is that you're presenting that profiling Muslims as potential terrorists is racist. Calling someone "brown-skinned" or "cracker" is racist. Treating a Muslim (which are clearly differentiated by their choice of clothing) differently at a checkpoint versus others isn't racist. It's discriminatory to their religion, sure, but not racist.
I rather suspect that is a common experience for immigrants to the USA now
In college I had a number of friends who were immigrants, also in the workplace.
Immigrants have no problem finding friends if they are open to it.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
There are more permutations than you note. Lose-Win is one of them, and a likely outcome at that.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Yes. I remember the Oklahoma City bombing well. All the news outlets were saying: "It was probably some nerd!", and "I wouldn't want to be a nerd walking in the streets right now!".
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Yes, but you can't a nerd's perspective on those other sites.
ayottesoftware.com
You don't measure the value of training by the time it takes. Furthermore the Second Amendment doesn't say "the right to keep and bear arms after a mandatory class and the issuance of a license", but we'll have to wait a while before we can get back to the reality of the Constitution as practiced in that den of crime and violence, the State of Vermont.
The reality is that every state that has enacted shall issue concealed carry systems has seen violent crime either stay the same or go down, even over decades. Take off your ideological blinders and look at facts. The anti-carry groups said over and over how carry would lead to crazy shoot outs, and in every state it didn't happen. Now even the barely informed look at that bullshit and roll their eyes. Reality simply doesn't bear our your assumptions.
Meanwhile all the highest crime and the most violence occurs in places where concealed carry is illegal or effectively illegal (because nobody but celebrities, politicians, and moguls can grease the palms necessary to get 'may issue' licenses). Stop peddling this nonsense, it's getting more people killed than concealed carry has or will.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
As much as I fully agree with your comment that it is unfair to believe that if there is a terrorist attack it must certainly have been caused by muslims, I would also like you to consider the fact that in muslim-dominated countries, practitioners of other religions very often live under serious threat of violence - or to put it another way, under terror imposed upon them by the muslim majority - and no, you can't blame the US, UK or any other country for that. In these nations, muslims are targetting people of their own nationality - other citizens, and forcing them to live in fear.
In many of these nations even just changing your religion is seen as a capital offence. Examples: Pakistan, Maldives, Most countries in the ME, parts of Indonesia, Malaysia, etc. Try taking in a Bible into Saudi Arabia. Forget that - try just *getting* into Mecca as a non-muslim.
So their (muslim) oft-quoted justification that the west is terrorising them and therefore they are just responding does not hold when the people they are attacking have nothing whatsoever to do with the west.
I never determined whether the weather website knew about the terrorist group when they chose that name. It seems like a strange reference to make, but it also seems like a strange name to select in a vacuum.
The primary victims of this episode, will be America's embattled Muslims
That didn't really happen after 9/11, why would it happen now?
People are smart enough to understand the difference between average people and terrorists.
You can see this is the case by the lack of attacks on mosques and other Islamic organizations.
You are trying to make up hate where none exists.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I just happened across a UPI story that our favorite no-such-thing-as-a-former Chekist telegraphed Obama with an offer of investigative assistance. Two days before it became known they were Chechens! Maybe the FSB was sandbagging us? Or just coincidence? I don't know. I just found it ironic. Here's the link: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2013/04/16/Putin-offers-Obama-aid-in-Boston-Marathon-bombing-investigation/UPI-59841366130396/
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
This is relatively late in the comments so will be missed by everyone but has anhyone noticed how the name of the uncaught guy Dzhokhar is pronounced very close to Joker.
They've received your input. They've made their decision. The fact that they sent a survey suggests that they're not sifting the comments looking for your input, and those of us who've noted that the "news for nerds, stuff that matters" slogan is long gone from the site are tired of the continuous complaints.
Here's my input: I don't want to see asinine "does this belong?" discussion in every non-nerdy thread. The part of the community that tought it was worthy upvoted the contributions in the firehose, and the editors selected the topic. The part of the community that thinks that it was unworthy needs to learn that the site is not exlusively for them and deal with it.
They didn't aim at civilians, oh really?
That's why they bombed a shopping mall in Manchester, and why they bombed pubs, and why they bombed a business district in London.
The Boston attack was more like an IRA attack than it was an Islam attack (I'm not saying it is or isn't either). The hallmarks of an Islamic attack are (1) suicide bombers (2) infatuation with aviation with other public transport as a distant second. This was neither a suicide bombing nor an attack on the transportation network.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Because they do the marathon with 70 pounds on their backs. In fact many in the military will use marathons as training to get up to speed with the real long range movements they have to do in war zones. This is especially true with Special Ops.
The problem is actually shit is so mixed up that anything anti-government agenda anything is labeled as infowars.
There is no truth in the middle ground or non-bias any where left to be had...
But I grantee shit does happen even if its not part of a great conspiracy. Its as annoying to talk to infowars chuckle-heads as imperialist lapdogs about this shit.
It further erodes any checks and balances our form of government had or needs, such as JOURNALISM. Because people are increasingly afraid to say anything politically incorrect on official channels.
When you want to commit suicide, guns are seconds away.
A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine tracked the owners of new gun permits to find out what happened to them. For every gun owner who used his gun in self-defense, 8 of them used it to commit suicide.
The NRA responded by lobbying for laws that prevented the release of information about gun permits, to prevent research like this from happening again.
You're much more likely to use a gun to kill yourself than to defend yourself.
What's a nerd?
I thought it was someone that's particularly interested in a field.
How about a fitness nerd?
Or a munitions nerd?
Or a terrorism nerd?
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Because of campus police like Lt. John Pike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper-spray_incident
Your own link states that students *surounded* the police and *demanded* that those in custody be released. It further states that police ordered people to move and these people *refused*. What I recall from the full videos of the incident is that the police then pepper sprayed those people who refused to move and were *blocking* the path that the police wanted to use to exit the area.
This was *not* police simply walking up to protesters and pepper spraying them. These were people blocking an exit route as police were surrounded.
Never did a marathon in gear while I was in, but 15 mi (24k) runs with full combat load were a semi-regular part of training. Usually took about 3 hours, IIRC.
At the risk of being insensitive to the fact that the guy is still on the loose, people are scared and there's a very good chance there will be more bloodshed before the day is through:
What are the long term consequences of this? I mean so far "only" four people are dead, but the citizens major city have been told to stay indoors because a Muslim maniac with guns and bombs and possibly a suicide vest is on the loose. I think this is an experience that's going to stick in the popular consciousness for quite a long time.
Chechen, interesting. Methinks we might get more friendly with Russia after this. Also, especially in light of the 4chan debacle (did the Post really run with the photo on the front page? it boggles the mind. When I first saw the 4chan thing last night the first thing I said was I was surprised they hadn't proven Justin Bieber the culprit), Americans may finally come to realize that not all Muslims have brown skin. They may even realize that Iranians are for the most part are not Arab, but I'm not holding my breath.
If they used or later today uses an "assault rifle" (everyone who thinks this is anything other than a laughable political construct please, go educate yourself), the Republicans may finally begin to compromise on the gun thing.
Annnnd, um, I'm not sure what else may come of this.They sounded desperate and without long term plans so hopefully he isn't prepared to go hide out in the woods or something... I cannot begin to fathom the circus we'll experience if this goes on for longer than a day or two.
Regardless, this surely isn't something that will be glossed over in a year or two. I hope they get him alive (interrogation if nothing else), today, without any more bloodshed.
Your frothing at the mouth seems to have spilled onto your keyboard and an appropriate time. The site you complain about links to the original stories in the media that carried them. (Those would be the links that say: "Read the full article here:") You are free to follow the link to the original story and see what it says. Try it - it might save you another episode.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Sure, civilians with guns never shoot anybody innocent. Unless they're wearing hoodies and black. But then they're not innocent, right?
I live in New York. We have a lot of Irish immigrants. From what they tell me, there was a lot of provocation by the British government. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
I was in an Irish bar when the IRA killed Lord Mountbatten. The IRA was not popular that evening. I remember the Irish barmaid saying that they killed children and hitting the counter with a beer mug in anger.
There were a lot of killings by both sides. It escalated. I think a sovereign government is in a better position to stop it. Thatcher's tough-guy approach didn't do any good.
Someone told me about an experiment once. They setup some kind of gun training seminar. At one point they passed out some (fake) guns, but not enough so everybody had one. Then a masked man with a paintball gun burst in yelling and shooting.
Almost all of the unarmed participants hit the floor and didn't get any paint on them. Most of the armed participants hesitated, figuring out whether they should shoot back, duck then shoot back, just duck, etc. Most of them were shot.
How about this as a compromise: tell us concealed permit holders how much training we need to get and we'll do it. I, for one, would not mind at all being required to get more training. However, I think you may find that your average cop (not SWAT) isn't really all that much better trained that your average gun nut. In case you missed the memo, these guys ambushed and killed an MIT cop last night. All the training in the world will not save you from an ambush.
The fact of the matter is, for every Zimmerman out there there are hundreds if not thousands of American cops that have similarly overreacted in the same way this past year. I'm all for gun control and increased training and increased safety measures and background checks and mental health screening and so on, but throwing up your hands and saying everyone who is a cop is a cool headed professional and the rest are dangerous gun nuts is deluded, bordering on fascist (cue the flames.)
You are parsing it to get the definition you want.
Actually - yes - in general, a longer more rigorous training program is far more effective than one that you can complete in 30 min-2hrs... unless, of course, the subject matter is trivial. For some thing as serious as carrying a handgun in public... I'd personally prefer to see very high (and consistent) standards.
With respect to your other comments, there is a tenuous link - at best - between concealed carry legislation and a decline in violent crime rates... Even you state that the rates 'either stay the same or go down'. If conceal and carry was truly effective, I'd hope to see a significant reduction.
Your assertion with regards to the highest crime rates is completely unsubstantiated. Further, for every study that you can produce that shows any positive correlation, you can also find another which repudiates those results (and in many cases, those two reports will use the exact same data but use different factors to analyze the numbers)... lies, damned lies and statistics!
IMHO, the real nonsense is the belief that more guns somehow make things safer. But just as I am entitled to this opinion, I concede that you are entitled to yours.
BTW - I really liked this story at SatireWire: http://www.satirewire.com/content1/?p=4946
It's a challenge, and some PR. The soldiers certainly don't win, but it's pretty impressive to see them jog across the finish line with a big backpack and boots on. There was a guy from my home town who ran it as Elvis. There are usually lots of people who run in costumes.
The point of a marathon usually isn't to finish with the best time, it's to finish.
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
You should take some basic handgun safety classes followed by some active shooting classes before you consider a CCW permit.
See if you can handle your shit in a mock active-shooter scenario. Because I guarantee that, in practice, if you can't consistently clear a jammed feed, draw your gun properly, disable the safety, and stay behind cover, then you won't be able to do it properly when you are actually about to kill someone. Plus, it is really hard to hit someone who is shooting back at you, especially if they planned ahead and have body armor, a shotgun, a semi-auto rifle and 200 rounds as compared to your two (legal) low-capacity magazines.
You may also find that you do not like the responsibility associated with carrying a firearm... Are you going to help others in danger or just yourself? Are you willing to accept the consequences of misinterpreting a rapidly evolving situation and doing the wrong thing? What if you accidentally shoot an undercover cop? What if you shoot a gang-member and the gang comes after you or your family? What if you accidentally shoot another CCW-holding citizen responding to the same situation? What if he shoots you? Is your spouse on-board with you carrying a loaded weapon on your person? Are you willing to no longer be able to drink alcohol on the days that you are carrying?
Also, remember that in a city, you can't legally take your gun into most stores or offices. If you illegally take it in, you are subject to a felony and loss of your CCW permit. And the average legal fees associated with shooting someone in self-defense are spectacular... upwards of $400K if the family decides to sue you.
I am not saying that you shouldn't go for it. Just be aware there is a lot of baggage associated with the "right" to carry and it is better to be aware of those issues up front.
Their "hike" is more of a jog. And yes, they usually seem to finish mixed in with the non-elite runners.
That's strange, coming from "adult film producer." I would expect you to suggest we do something else with our wives.
No, that would be other people's wives.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
And all 8 would've used a knife had no gun being around, this is a moot point.
And all 8 would've used a knife had no gun being around, this is a moot point.
To show support for current and fallen military personnel. There are groups that run the course in full military gear.
So he used the wrong term. Maybe you're not a racist, you're a religist.
The Qur'an is an old book with some pleasant parables, a few decent suggestions and a whole lot of violence, nastiness and plain weird shit. So is the bible, which the Qur'an is based upon. Fortunately, the vast majority of Muslims don't believe it's their duty to kill non-believers any more than the vast majority of Christians believe it's their duty to kill heretics. A few do. They're the bad ones. But hating people just because of the particular major religion they identify themselves with is stupid. Hating everyone from one religion and minimizing the crimes of terrorists from another just because you like it better is even dumber.
Most civilians are at least not trained or encouraged to use deadly force by their training. There is some desensitization to violence that police and military have by the very nature of training with their firearms. So they might actually opt to use deadly force more often then an untrained and unprofessional person would.
I would argue that this is a bad point, most people including police should have a reasonable ability to know when to use deadly force and when not to. This is more about what should be rather then what is.
Thats why smart civilians should be off the streets and let the police do their thing. Does it really take a law other then interfering with law enforcement or obstruction of law enforcement to justifiable enforce this sane action?
I know I would be complying with the lawmen there. Its insane enough as it is. But someone who's on a street by themselves and one town over aught to have a right to do something if some crazy dood with a vest breaks into their home for a botttle of vodka.
I honestly think a bullet to the head, dump the body, and forget about him would be the best thing to do.
Considering that Muslim is not a race but people who follow the religion Islam, how can someone who does not like Islam be a racist?
Maybe we need a new term. Maybe religionist? If you don't like one religion, you are a religionist.
Yeah, what's up with this public transit shutdown and not leaving your home security theater? Fight for your rights, go ride a bus or just walk the streen in the middle of a shootout.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
I don't suppose your religion is also one that shoots abortion doctors, beats up gay men and blew up a lot of stuff in Ireland twenty years ago?
And by "religion" I mean Christianity, not the particular sect you belong to. You've tarred 1.3 billion Muslims with the same brush, it's only fair that you accept responsibility for the crimes of your own religious brothers with the same generality.
If the suspect is carrying explosives and potentially willing to use them in a suicide attack, the distinction between those two basically shrinks to zero. If he is not unconscious or paralyzed, he is either dead or still capable of blowing himself up. You can't shoot to render unconscious without shooting to kill. In theory you could aim for the spinal cord but realistically it's going to boil down to a head shot. Which is unfortunate, because we may never know the full story (including potential accomplices.)
"At least your average civilian isn't going to shoot you unless you start shooting first."
Is that a new law of nature that I'm not aware of?
MIT Campus Police are real police, recruited only from among real police departments,
No, actually.
First: There is no such term as "real police"; campus police powers vary greatly. Some can't even give you a traffic ticket, for example ("Chapter 90 powers".)
Second: Collier was not hired from an officer position; he worked in IT for Somerville police, and was hoping to work on the Somerville force from working for MIT. He did, however, go through the Massachusetts police academy.
Please help metamoderate.
Seriously? Pulling a trigger is immensely easier than actually going through the horror of stabbing yourself. Yes, the latter can be fatal, but it takes a lot more work, especially if you don't know what you're doing. Also, the psychological terror of having to cut yourself open might actually dissuade some people from going through with it, unlike a gun, which is simply...well, point-and-click.
I don't suppose your religion is also one that shoots abortion doctors, beats up gay men and blew up a lot of stuff in Ireland twenty years ago?
No
Suicide is a horrific act. I'm sorry but a quick slice of the wrist is not painful at all, its a slow and easy death, you just pass out.
People have been stocking up. That's what it boils down to. If you want to find a paranoid personality, look no further than someone who owns an assault rifle. Now get a bunch of these people together and convince them that people are out to not only kill them, but take their guns and ammo as well. Tada. You've just created demand. And supply apparently can't keep up.
1/2 of all suicides are done with guns in the U.S (17,000 out of 34,000). Yet, the U.S. suicide rate is completely typical for Western European counties where there are almost no guns (and where guns are rarely used for suicide).
The only reasonable conclusion is that guns are just the most convenient and certain method that happens to be available to suicidal people in the U.S.
Um, at the very least the religion plays a part to the degree that it influences their culture and their attitudes towards violence. If they grew up Jain, for instance, I rather doubt they would have bombed anything regardless of their politics.
Chechen independeance isn't religious in nature? Argh. You might as well argue that the Palestinian cause is entirely political, with no religious element. Actually I'm sure there are people who do that, just like some people stick their heads in the sand and insist that the Northern Ireland conflicts are strictly political.
The fact that such conflicts have ostensibly non-religious dimensions only serves to illustrate how influential, insidious and all-encompassing the Abrahamic religions tend to be. The religious aspect becomes a given, something one doesn't need to trumpet at every occasion, because everyone in the group already knows all about those evil, insular, freakish Catholics/Protestants/Sunni/Shia/Druze/etc.
Leave law enforcement to the trained professionals.
I've seen local police officers who participate in shooting events which often emulate defense scenarios. Few of them are any good at it, let alone as good as some of the top performers.
Trust me, choosing between a typical police officer and a top civilian IPSC shooter to help defend me in a bad situation? I'll take the civilian gent who can put his bullet through a dime at 10 yards while literally running. The typical cop may get a chance to qualify with his pistol once a year in a static range test.
TBH? Even as crappy as I am at it (at least compared to my local peers), I've personally bested more than a few police officers in these events - and I'm using a 1911 .45 ACP against their puny no-kick 9mm.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
I really question the accuracy of those links and/or your interpretation of them. No mention of Corkins and his attack on the FRC at all (not Islamist, but a pro-gay marriage activist)? And if you NEED to look at the "alleged and proven plots" section. Example:
Sami Samir Hassoun
Nidal Hasan
Just to name a few. There's quite a list of Islamic terrorism that appears to be hidden under the guise of "alleged".
protip: suicide doesn't require a firearm, and most suicidal folks who want to blow their brains out usually buy the thing right before they off themselves.
Long story short - the study you cite is, well, fundamentally dumb.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
NRA loving Bible thumpers? They're Liberal Muslims.
Coincidentally, female suicide bombers are actually pretty common in Chechnya, where the bombers are reported either to have originated or had ethnic ties to. There is even a word for it: shahidka.
"My son is a true angel."
Sure he is...
'At the same time he warned that if the US kills his son, "all hell will break loose."'
Oh, really? Is that a threat? Is this guy implying that it's okay for his son to go bomb another country, that he's a "little angel," so if the motherfucker gets killed papa's gonna send some fucking "Caucasus" army in and start a war with the U.S.?
What if the idiot attacks law enforcement officers again instead of surrendering and eventually gets himself killed, is the U.S. automatically at fault because this dick decides to keep playing with bombs? What if he in in fact wearing a suicide vest, and his death is a direct result of that--will all hell still break loose, or will they finally realize that the dipshit brought it on himself?
Who would have thought, of all places, MIT under "lock down".
In answer to the question: Aaron Swartz.
Post the original link, then. It should not be that hard.
I (in common with many Brits as I once was) have always had sympathy for the IRA's cause.
But never their methods.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Tell it to my wife who was almost assaulted by a convicted felon who thought she had "offended" him on the road because she had to stop suddenly for some people in front of her. He followed her home and waited for me to leave the house, then tried to jump her as she went out to get the mail. She'd already called the police about him, they of course are never there when you need them, but long story short, he stopped when he saw she had a gun. The police eventually did show up, and arrested him on an outstanding warrant.
Additionally an acquaintance of mine shot a guy who was attempting to rob him at gunpoint. He faked the guy out about getting his wallet, drew down on him instead and hit him several times. The guy fired off a couple of random shots, but he was too surprised to aim.* Dumbass lived though, and was duly convicted of his felony after learning the hard way that violent crime doesn't work out well in Virginia. This is why we have less of it than our may issue neighbors to the north.
These are just the people I know. If you go on keepandbeararms.com you can see stories of personal defense every day. I have pages and pages of self-defense stories from the "Armed Citizen" pieces in NRA magazines like America's First Freedom. So no, saying you have a gun to protect yourself is not stupid. It's saved lives, up to and including my wife.
*(Turns out the guy had just acquired his gun and didn't really know how to handle it, and just happened to target a guy who has put in years of time at ranges. It was a lucky scenario, since it's hard to get the upper hand on anybody who's already drawn, and indeed I would not recommend drawing on anybody who's already drawn unless there is no other choice, which in fact in my acquaintance's case there was not since the would-be robber was literally jamming his gun into the guy's side. Seeking cover, which is generally the first best move, was not an option.)
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
Part of the point is the site has many similar stories. Are you catching the drift here?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Brian Ross would be so proud of you.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
People have been stocking up. That's what it boils down to. If you want to find a paranoid personality, look no further than someone who owns an assault rifle. Now get a bunch of these people together and convince them that people are out to not only kill them, but take their guns and ammo as well.
Tada. You've just created demand. And supply apparently can't keep up.
Only paranoid people only "assault rifles"? Huh.
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
Yes, it has a place on slashdot.
Every time you or anyone else makes this cliche statement, the editors post 2 more that you wont think belongs here just to spite you.
Pardon the off-topic post, Basil, but as you seem to be quite comfortable in the recent past in painting with broad brush strokes in other topics (re: Libertarians/Republicans/gun owners for example), it's very strange to see you be so cautious in tiptoeing around group responsibility/group blame in this case. Is this a change towards a more sensible view that we should expect in the future or a continuation of cognitive dissonance?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
You should take some basic handgun safety classes followed by some active shooting classes before you consider a CCW permit.
Good CCW classes do all three.
Also, remember that in a city, you can't legally take your gun into most stores or offices. If you illegally take it in, you are subject to a felony and loss of your CCW permit.
You should really specify what municipality you live in prior to spouting off like that. In Minnesota, neither of those are true. The store/office has the duty to ask you to leave ... and if you don't, you are subject to a misdemeanor and NOT loss of permit, nor loss of firearm, for first offense. MN is also technically open-carry, and I carry everywhere.
Besides, the whole point of concealed is that nobody knows you are carrying unless you show them or you submit to a check.
Gold and silver have value in and of themselves, but the papers with president's pictures on them the Federal Reserve prints, are just that, paper with no intrinsic value. A given weight of gold will buy more of most things today than it did in 1913, the year when they created the income tax. In those days an ounce of gold could be had for a $20 bill.
A piece of paper from the Federal Reserve called a $20 bill bought more groceries in 1913 than even the strongest man could possibly carry. Today even a first grader can easily carry a bag filled with $20 worth of groceries. Today an ounce of gold will buy considerably more groceries than it did in 1913. So which would you rather have today, a $20 bill or the amount of gold that such a bill would have bought in 1913?
A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
It may be tenuous regarding the decline in violent crime it is a slam dunk refutation of the assertion that CCW laws would result in a Wild West shootout. It's never happened. Precious few CCW holders have ever been convicted of a gun crime either (far below the rate of the general population).
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Someone told me about that very same experiment, except that all the armed individuals shot at the guy and he went down in a blaze of semi-gloss.
Guess we need to find that "Someone" and get the story straight.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Pills. And don't tell me for a moment you couldn't google up enough info on them to do it right.
I am actually very proficient with handguns already, having participated in several of the exact same competitions you mention.
But you are correct that if you can't handle the tool, then you are worse than useless.
I think that in Texas, if the shooting is justified you are indemnified against civil actions. Don't take my word for it though. I suppose that's something I"ll learn about in class.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Also, remember that in a city, you can't legally take your gun into most stores or offices. If you illegally take it in, you are subject to a felony and loss of your CCW permit.
Which city/cities are you talking about? Private businesses have to post a no-gun sign in order to prohibit lawful concealed carry on their premises, and illegally carrying into one of these businesses is usually treated as a matter of criminal trespassing - a misdemeanor (although you'll still lose your CCW permit). Government buildings are a different story - federal buildings are always felonies, although state buildings can differ (e.g. Ohio-> felony, Oregon-> OK w/ permit).
The rest of your comment is excellent advice for future CCW holders. For anyone with a CCW, always remind yourself of your responsibility every time you put on your weapon.
Appropriately posted as an AC.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I have a buddy who's actually good at martial arts (a vanishing rarity among those who think themselves so). He often makes the same point, adding "if I need a gun in a fight, they will have brought one for me."
The main use for a concealed weapon is to prevent attack from someone who isn't carrying. How often that comes up depends on where you live.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Again, statistics show that the overwhelming majority still don't "get this right" --- perhaps because their subconscious is conflicted, so they aren't really trying to be 100% successful. Someone downs a bottle of valium, takes a well-needed nap, and wakes up in the hospital with a stomach pump and a referral to therapy. Guns make it a lot harder to intentionally fail. See the plot of suicide method effectiveness in the Wikipedia article on the subject: guns are ~80% effective, poisoning/overdose under 2%, cutting even less!
No one anywhere to the left of the center would paint every muslim as evil and intolerant. I don't believe you for a minute.
Do you really expect that Billy-Bob packing a gun and a boner would have don any better in a similar high-stress and very confusing situation? I mean honestly!
Trying to draw any distinction between a cop and "Billy-Bob packing a gun and a boner" is, well, maybe it depends on where you live. My expectation is that the guys with the biggest hard-ons for waving guns around become cops.
But in any case it's senseless to put your faith in the cops unless they're there, on the scene. I don't carry a gun today, because I'm simply not a preferred target for a robbery/mugging (though I've been mugged more than once when I used to deliver pizza). As I age, however, I'll likely start.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
IMHO, the real nonsense is the belief that more guns somehow make things safer. But just as I am entitled to this opinion, I concede that you are entitled to yours.
So far the actual data backs up that nonsense, or at the very least doesn't contradict it. Look for yourself at the rates of violent crime in states that have allowed concealed carry in the past few decades: the strong trend is for violent crime rates to fall. Correlation not being causation I'm not jumping to any conclusions, but I sure wouldn't dismiss it as "nonsense".
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Here is an excerpt from the wikipedia entry on race.
"Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, or social affiliation."(empashis mine).
If I was allowed to leave a gun in my car at work I would get one too. Problem is it is against FEDERAL LAW to have a gun where I work unless you are authorized (military installation).
sudo mod me up
I don't believe I ever made any comments about a wild west shoot out... I do, on the other hand, find it hard to understand how anyone could think that an amateur with only a few hours of training is in any way capable of using their weapon safely in a situation where they are staring down a bomber or a fanatic with an automatic weapon. Adding more guns to the mix, IMHO, only makes the situation even more volatile.
I don't dispute that CCW holders have a low crime rate however, your assertion regarding weapons convictions does not appear to be valid... I recognize this is but one study, but results published in the American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) seem to show that “in those rare instances when they committed crimesthey [CCW holders] were more likely to be convicted for serious weapons-related offenses.” - - i.e., they had a higher proportion of convictions for sexual offenses, weapons offenses, deadly conduct and offenses involving the intentional killing of a person than non-CHL holders.
Other than the sexual assaults, I'm not particularly surprised by this... if they commit a crime, it's more likely to involve a weapon because they have one with them.
Read the full article for more details: When Concealed Handgun Licensees Break Bad: Criminal Convictions of Concealed Handgun Licensees in Texas, 2001–2009
Have a good day.
I know they make pistols with biometric locks on them. What I don't get is why they don't make shotguns equipped in the same way. A shotgun makes a lot more sense from a self-defense standpoint, and a biometric lock helps mitigate the stolen weapon problem (at least if the thief is in a hurry).
If this guy were running around in my backyard I wouldn't mind having a weapon for self-defense. I'd certainly be content to lock the doors and leave the apprehending to the professionals, but if the guy decides to break a window to take shelter in my home I'd prefer to not have to rely on the hostage negotiators. Sure, I might get surprised and then I would just have to surrender and hope for the best, but if I could take shelter in a defensible area and call the police a shotgun trained on the door would make me feel a whole lot better.
That said, rare situations like this are really the only ones where I'd really want to have a gun, and the reality is that this guy isn't going to be moving around the city freely as long as the police are out in force. I wouldn't want to rely on a gun except when I'm alert and awake and have some warning. While my emotions say that having a gun nearby when I hear bumps in the night might be comforting, I'm not sure I'd trust myself to apply good judgment in such a situation. Also, a gun is a liability in the present legal climate, where any use of a weapon even in your own home for defense is second-guessed. The odds are that the gun will cause you more trouble than it saves you.
One thing I will say about having a gun is that you shouldn't own one unless you're fully prepared to kill somebody with it. If you aren't then at best it is a waste of money, and at worst it will cause you a lot more harm than good.
Wrong.
The higher you raise the bar to do it, the fewer people who commit suicide.
This has been seen over and over again around the world.
The most recent example that pops to mind is England. The number 1 suicide rate was overdosing on over he counter pain reducers (Tylon et al.). So they passed a law saying all over the counter pills need to be in a pill packet.
The number of suicide using that method was cut in half, and no other method of suicide saw an increase.
Having a gun right there is the simplest and easiest way to kill oneself.
Give them a delay, even a slight one, and there is a good chance they won't do it.
Another fact: Most people who survived suicide, or was stopped, had no plan to commit suicide. They just decided to do it.
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That's a lie.
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Nope. You can't claim that with any sincerity. The action of slitting an artery with a knife is a lot more difficult, emotionally and physically, than simply pulling a trigger. You pretending otherwise for the sake of your argument paints you as either ignorant, or deceitful.
you are claiming its impossible to look excited about killing some one. Because that's what he was saying and if you missed it int the comment about the "crazed glint" then I would say that says more about you then the GP. And yes there is a chance though very slim that the one shot from an excited concealed weapons carrier.But take into consideration that the police miss far more often then then hit when they fire their weapons and there are constantly training unlike the civilians with ccw's.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Have you ever slit your wrists? then don;t claim it's painless as it's not, it's also hardly a fact that you will die from it
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
And the number of people 'saved' id dwarfed by the number of people killed.
Add to that, no one else saw these 'robbers'. SO you have an old guy who fired two shots and claims there was 5 armed people that fled.
I call bull crap.
The drift I see is that most of the articles there have no proof there where other people being shot at.
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Cognitive dissonance still doesn't mean what you think it does.
You do know how Wikipedia works don't you? If you see inaccuracy, fix it.
Maybe it's the shop keepers are creating an artificial slump so the can rake you over the coals.
I put nothing past people who sell murder machines.
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I bet you got a hard on saying that.
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Your right I must be decietful. I guess you don't want to take from someone who knows..... Yea. And I found pulling a trigger much more hard.
NO it does not, not in any way.
IN every place, in the ENTIRE world that enforces strict gun control, it ALWAYS leads to a decline. There are not any exception to that trend.
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What I don't understand, and excuse my ignorance, is not only how the entire city was literally shut down (can you legally keep people off the street?), but how it appeared to me that police were systematically going from door to door and SEARCHING houses. Is that legal!??!
If you really think that's what he just did, then you are not a rational person and should seek help. Clearly your cognitive disonence is getting to the point where you are delusional.
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You'll take the guy who trains for events, good for you so would I but honestly how likely is it they are going to be around when you need them. And how often in these events is someone shooting back at you, because believe it or not that makes a huge difference regardless of your 1911 .45acp.
IPSC is hardly practical shooting. It's a target shooting contest. It has zero relation to a firefight where you have to control your panic.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Shotgun is probably he best home defense weapon. You most likely only have to cock the gun to make the suspect leave. Nothing is scarier then a pump action shotgun you can hear but not see.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Weird, other people on other site had that exact same thing happen to you, and typed it in the same format and paragraphs. what a coincidence.
Page and [pages(not that many when put against the entire population) most of which have no confirmation that it actually happened.
Fucking astro turfing wanna be murders.
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I bet you wish you were capable of getting a hard on
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
You really think the authorities are buying .22LR? You might want to double check your conspiracy theory.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Nope, no one does
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago. Leave law enforcement to the trained professionals.
I am against using statistical data and in favor of anecdotal evidence, and I support modding this to 5 Insightful.
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
The difference is that their gun control is actually gun prohibitions, backed by confiscations and in the less civilized places, searches that would make U.S. 4th Amendment supporters recoil in horror.
You want gun control that will work? Here it is: House to house, door kicking in search and confiscation of ALL firearms or any kind.
Is that what you want? Would you tolerate the wholesale evisceration of the 2nd and 4th Amendments so that you can feel just a bit safer? What other civil rights would you be willing to do away with?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
And in case anybody starts feeling sorry for the hunted and soon to be deceased Mr. Tsarnaev Jr., just remember this picture: http://media.tumblr.com/3ee5f3e27917c83a3810cd688da60817/tumblr_inline_mlhg426NpU1qz4rgp.png
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
"...suicide is forbidden in the bible. "
HAHAHahahah. aren't you cute.
YOu are a non thinking fundlmentalist, and in case you disagree, there is a chek list!
Top 10 ways to tell if you are a Fundamentalist Idiot. from - http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
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well, if they happen then clearly everything is one. Brilliant logical leap, Sherlock.
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His and your assertions that having a firearm makes you less safe lies in the face of empirical evidence.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
That's as dumb as Janet Napolitano whining that the Drudge Report is not credible when all he does is link to stories in the national and local media.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
" Was their aim to kill and amim at random? No "
yes, yes it was. There are no specific bombs. By their nature the maim and kill.
All that 'nice' bombing started happen as their funding dried up.
You are a racist because you lump all Muslims together.
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irrelevant they were still terrorist, the fact that they had a cause doesn't change that.
The Irony here is that people forget it was a religious war, but get all purple in the face when they hear 'muslim'.
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The movie you offer is the 1 minute fragment that distorts what occurred. Here is a 15 minute video that gives a much better perspective on what happens. A large group of students decided to march on the spot where those in custody were being detained. Note the group chant of "If you let them go, we will let you leave".
http://ricochet.com/main-feed/UC-Davis-Pepper-Spray-Incident-What-Really-Happened
The individuals on the path weren't the source of danger. The larger crowd around chanting for the people in custody to be released were the danger. The people on the path sillily decided to block the exit.
"Read the Qur'an and listen to the words of Muslim clerics and you will see how anyone who believes in tolerance, equality, justice for all, and freedom of expression should oppose Islam"
I have, it's no better or worse then any version of the christian bible, something n else I have read it totality...twice.(KJV)
You are playing cute becasue you are trying to squirm around with the meaning of race. Either you are a fucking moron, or you now damn well he is talking about you view on Muslim.
You are categorizing all Muslims based on the acts of a few. Instead of using you energy to help Muslims trapped in extreme theocratic regime , you label them all as the same.
You are a stupid,. lazy coward, and nothing more.
Learn to think.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You'll take the guy who trains for events, good for you so would I but honestly how likely is it they are going to be around when you need them.
Statistically it would be almost the same likelihood of a cop being around if you need one of them, really...
And how often in these events is someone shooting back at you
Considering that one trains for both speed and accuracy (including the draw) in these events? I'm willing to wager that if you drew on a solid IPSC competitor who was carrying, he'd have two rounds headed for the center of your torso while moving out of your line of fire - and that's before you could finish pulling the trigger. His advantage is more commonly called "muscle memory".
Now you do have a point about the whole panic situation, but if you're consistently practicing, and are good at it? Once your brain says 'gun - react!', the rest happens by near-literal reflex, and (at least for most men) panic usually waits until later, once it's all done.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
to ease the American population into accepting military and police roaming their neighborhoods, searching, etc;
http://imgur.com/a/Asgdb#31
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Say that to the 100s of thousands of bystander who were kill from the US crusade?
What do you think people who see US politicians constantly praising the christian god of (peace and love) and then bombing their children think?
More people have been kill by christian Americans, following the orders of the Christian leader in the last 20 years then any terrorist organization hiding behind the Muslim faith as an excuse for violence.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Your video conveniently omits events prior to the pepper spraying. A large group of students marching to the spot where those in custody are being detained. Chant of "If you let them go, we will let you leave".
http://ricochet.com/main-feed/UC-Davis-Pepper-Spray-Incident-What-Really-Happened
My, aren't memories short. There was the Sikh Temple massacre in Wisconsin which was carried out by a white supremacist- that was last year, and killed 6 (that's more than the Boston bombs so far, incidentally- although it's not exactly a competition, and the number of injuries in Boston more than make up for it). James vonn Brunn was a far-right extremist and neo-Nazi with connections with both the BNP and British National Front (both extreme-right organisations)- I'm not sure why you discount him as "pro-socialist". I don't think Dorner really counts as a terrorist as much as a regular old murderer- but if we're counting things on that scale, there are dozens of right-wing nut-jobs to join him. Jim Adkisson managed to kill two in 2008 after writing a manifesto promising to kill "Democrats, liberals and gays". James Kopp went on a series of shooting sprees, motivated principally by anti-abortion sentiments. Or there are the number of murders carried out by the Christian terrorist group Army of God, targeting doctors connected with abortion procedures. And lets not forget the Oklahoma City bombing.
I'm not aware of any genuinely left-wing terrorist movements in the United States, although of course they do exist elsewhere.
Islamist terrorists are plenty bad, but only an idiot assumes that they're the be-all-and-end-all of terrorism in the United States. They're just the trendy new kids on the block, who happened to hit the jackpot with the absurdly effective 9/11 attacks.
(Sorry for late reply, afk)
The shah is a good example, yes. Of a western backed brutal regime, without which it might not have been possible for fundamentalist tendencies to take hold as they did. Similar story for similar places though, some to this day. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Quwait, Egypt, Pakistan.
Now again, I'm not in any way defending these horrible acts. But the idea that they are purely religious acts, as some suggest/believe, is plainly and obviously mistaken.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
That's a pretty weak list, for example it's missing the terrorist attacks committed by the US. Blowing up neighborhoods and killing 100, 000 civilians isn't terror, then nothing is.
You are a bigot, you are ignorant of the thing you hate(surprise), and you are the antithesis of a peaceful society.
You are no different them people who wanted black to remain slaves, women to remain property, and take rights away from gay couples.
You don't know how to think critically, and for that, I pity you and your ilk.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"...suicide is forbidden in the bible. " HAHAHahahah. aren't you cute.
YOu are a non thinking fundlmentalist, and in case you disagree, there is a chek list!
Oh, the irony. First of all, it is spelled fundamentalist and "checklist". Fundamentalism in Christianity is about following reading the bible WITHOUT heavily interpreting things which are not presented as "parables". Liberal theology, on the other hand, is about liberally reinterpreting parts of the bible, ignoring large sections and taking things out of context. The great irony is that you just quoted some stupid top ten list that you found on the internet.
Top 10 ways to tell if you are a Fundamentalist Idiot. from - http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
You are a bit confused. There is no specific requirement to actively/vigorously deny the existence of other powers but only to worship the one true god and to believe that the god of the bible is above every other god. So essentially, you are to just consider them irrelevant and not worthy of worship. Try reading a bible for yourself some time.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
I think you are a bit confused. You are dehumanizing yourself because you cannot believe that you are not insignificant in the greater scheme of things and that god cares about you. You want to make yourself feel small and worthless for some reason.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
You laugh at the Triune god but have no problem with the concept of the id, ego and superego. You also seem to have no problem with the concept that a family is considered a unit and yet they are composed of more than one "person".
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
They were killed because the pharaoh has previously killed all of the first born Jewish babies except for Moses. Apparently, you are ok with the atrocities that were happening all of the time at that time right? It was a "war" against a people who had sinned against god.
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
You obviously have not read the bible yourself seriously. It was prophesied in the old testament to happen the way it happened. The entire bible talks about Jesus. The "lord" of the old testament is Jesus. Whenever the lord appeared as a man, that was the son of man, aka Jesus.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
I don't waste my time with that crap. You are the one obsessed with it. It is irrelevant either way but I don't just blindly trust what some guy says.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
since nobody else has yet.
Tyranny! Fascism! Obama! Walrus! Broccoli! Run for the hills!!!!!!
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Those only come about relatively recently as everyone once to jump no the 'nerds are cool' bandwagon.
They are not nerds.
Of 'dork' became popular in the media that would all be calling them selves [mything] dorks.
They are are leeches and hangers on, they are people who need to identify with the cool thing in the media, they are people we could use a lot less of.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It's not my job to fix your citations. It's enough that I point out that you were citing inaccurate sources AND misinterpreting them to boot. I did so clearly and with examples. Since your statements no longer had any support it's up to you to either provide other sources or let your argument die on the vine.
You do know how debates/arguments work, don't you?
OK, I need to address this. /., and the Boston bombing is of that magnitude.
Some events are really huge. I don't have a problem with them appearing on
HOWEVER, using 'Stuff that matters' to any story means /. might as well be CNN. /., it's covered everywhere.
The follow up to the story isn't needed on
By the working, it's 'stuff that matters' in regards to the 'news for nerds'.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Yes, of course it is. The customer should always say when something happens they don't like or think it shoold be changed. How else do group know what their customers like?
Doesn't mean /. has to change, but input is good*.
*That's what you mother said.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Yes, that is one of the reasons I oppose gun control.
Makes sense. Plus, far more effective at the close ranges involved in home defense, shot loses effectiveness quickly and doesn't penetrate walls if you use the right shot. Aimed at a doorway or down a hallway it would basically take out anybody in the general direction, which gets rid of the need to aim (but NOT the need to identify your target - which is the key problem with defending yourself against a nutjob who doesn't have the same constraints).
Things like assault rifles really only make sense for hunting at range.
I'll save you the suspense - you aren't getting it. The site exists to collect reports of defensive gun use by citizens. This phenomenon is claimed to not exist by some people, probably like you. Guns do more than protect people from other people with guns. They protect 80 year old men confronted by gangs, 89 year old women from home invaders, women fighting off multiple rapists, and enable a boy to save his family from kidnapping and sexual assault. This sort of thing happens regularly, but is often unreported. If you ban guns, then everyone is at the mercy of the strong and vicious. Things don't get nicer if you ban guns, you simply get more innocent victims. In fact, gun crime can increase. But then violent crime in much of Europe, including the UK, and Australia occurs at a much higher rate than in the United States anyway. The United States does have a higher murder rate than much of Europe, but there is some subtlety in that. European Americans commit murder at rates similar to other Europeans. Where do the rest come from? And no, the United States murder rate is not among the worst in the world, its actually in the middle overall, and much lower in many place in the US. Guns are a useful tool, make for pleasant sport, but they not magic as you seem to believe. I think you have a number of unexamined assumptions that aren't true.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Who's terrorists? They're both terrorists -- the British soldiers who killed 26 peaceful protesters, and the IRA who fought back.
Couldn't you just hang yourself instead?
You really think the authorities are buying .22LR? You might want to double check your conspiracy theory.
No, of course not and I didn't say they were. :P
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
Islam is a religion, not a race; membership in Islam is a choice, and it proclaims itself to be a single, unified community with no divisions. Islam has a specific set of moral, religious, and legal teachings. One of these teachings is that I should be killed because I reject Allah. You think people aren't justified in criticizing Islam?
Are the diverse members of an ideology collectively responsible and collectively to blame for the actions of a subset of that group, or are they not? Or is it determined on a case by case basis dependent on our mood and prejudices?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
The Weather Underground, Numerous animal rights and eco groups, Black Panthers, May 19th......that was about 20 seconds of thought. I'm sure there are more.
Yes you seem to not want us to read the actual news article but instead the spin from the gun sight. I'm guessing there is something wrong with the original article. If there is a link in the site, you can COPY and PASTE it HERE!!!! Type Ctrl+C to copy and Ctrl+V to paste.
Are you totally incabable of copying the suppposed "real news links" off the propaganda sites and pasting them here? You are the one that does not get it. If it says "Read the full article here", go to that point, copy the link, and PASTE IT HERE!!! Crap almighty I want to shoot you for your ignorance.
And the number of people 'saved' id dwarfed by the number of people killed.
Sorry, but no. Tough Targets - When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens
Add to that, no one else saw these 'robbers'. SO you have an old guy who fired two shots and claims there was 5 armed people that fled.
I call bull crap.
And I call Jack - as in, "You don't know...."
But here is one for you, can you figure out why that sort of thing might not be reported?
The drift I see is that most of the articles there have no proof there where other people being shot at.
Knock yourself out: Stories That Happened In TX
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
"So which would you rather have today, a $20 bill or the amount of gold that such a bill would have bought in 1913?"
To have personally acquired either one I would have to be considerably older than 100 years old today. Yuck. So respectfully the answer is no.
To accept hypothetically-offered economic woudja-rather gifts fronted by those trying to illustrate trended price conversions between two time periods is in violation of the Temporal Prime Directive and the 2250 Temporal Treaty of Algernon.
Such choices were / will be discovered to influence the entire time line between the two cited moments in time, encouraging the least desirable social consequences like reckless hoarding and obssessive economyopia syndrome.
Why is it your duty to observe a treaty that will not be ratified for another 237 years??
Well, clever isn't it.
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
Like in the movie Conspiracy Theory, even crazy people are right some time.
I thought all the talk about mock human sacrifices in front of a 30 foot stone owl by a gathering of industrialists, politicians-generally our new aristocracy, out in the woods at Bohemian Grove were just tinfoil hat stuff.
But the crazy bastard infiltrated the place with video camera and ...what do you know he was right!
Its probably one of the few things he will ever be right about, but I still listen with one ear to people like him, I just make sure my BS detector is on.
I agree with you. It is just too many people seem to have this impression that this site is exclusively for nerdy matters. They fail to even consider that a story may just be important enough to qualify as stuff that matters.
Personally I love to see the large news stories here for a number of reasons.
The commentors tend to report in from other areas of the web that I don't visit. Reddit, 4-Chan, other specialized blogs.
I have never seen a better comment section then Slashdot's The moderations tend to average out pretty fair, the comment threading makes reading huge sections of comments do able. Try going to CNN or Newsvine. You will see replies that have to reference the comment number or the person they are replying to. Then you have to scroll up/down perhaps even go to the next/previous page of comments just to get some context. And threading? Good luck even getting one level of threading.
That and I enjoy seeing the opinion of other geeks. You can often enough find a decent back and forth conversation that actually adds to the story. A number of the convos have changed my mind on certain things. Go to CNN and greater then 50% of the comments are pure troll. I usually get a little queasy just trying to read more then a page of those comments.
For those reasons I will defend a lot of the "offtopic" stories that get posted.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Okay, because you seem to be an idiot, I will demonstrate how to cut & paste. It is your job to skip all the intermediate redirect pages and get the real news article.
The following link, about a real civilian killing a real robber with his privately-owned gun, is about 1000 times more convincing than you frothing at the mouth and posting links to a page that purposely makes it difficult to follow the news links:
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Robber-gunned-down-on-Pasadena-street-4415402.php
> Leave law enforcement to the trained professionals.
No problem at all. And when they can be by my side in 1 second every hour of every day, I'll leave my self defense to them, too.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
The Jews don't attack civilians.
What do you think?
Witness in Trayvon Martin Case Lied. Will It Even Go To Trial?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
No, you're just wrong there. Gun control leads to a reduction specifically in the murder rate, but often the violent crime rate goes up. Really. Plus in most (every?) state in the US that moved to allow conceal carry recently (past 20-30 years), the rate of violent crime went down.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Tough Targets - When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
usually the military hikers are not officially bibbed runners.
so they don't start with the runners and aren't timed.
at the boston marathon this week for instance, i started with the first wave, 3rd corral (so very up front, 3 of 27 corrals) and i passed many military already long hiking. so they must have started long before the official start.
they usually finish far, far, far behind the elite, far behind the serious amateurs, far behind the casual runners, well into the charity runners.
No. My assertion is having a gun did nothing for the two police officers that they shot while the SUV driver that did not have a gun (or at least did not choose to draw it) walked away with only some bad memories to deal with.
I never implied that a gun is never the correct course of action. Just that it's not the course of action that the vast majority of average people (e.g. not trained in law enforcement or military protocols) can appropriately execute. Even with the proper training, in a close combat situation with someone that is willing to take a life, the outcome if far from certain.
My point is that your implication that you can go spend a couple of days to get a CC permit will somehow let you survive meeting someone with a similar mindset to these two guys is just ludicrous. Spending years on a range becoming a marksman also doesn't translate to you somehow being capable with the weapon in what equates to a combat situation.
Hopefully if you do actually own a gun then your aren't remotely as childish and idiotic as your original post implies.
You got modded down so much that your posts showed up as 0? Big fucking deal, posting as AC your posts show up as 0. More likely you're just frightened of having your real opinions connected with your actual name.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Yeah, ya got a point.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
GP is wrong in painting all Muslims with the same brush, but he's right that there is a specific subset of Muslims who are "some horrible group of people far worse than anyone else". Look up Wahhabism on Wikipedia. Look up Salafism, too. That's the source of the vast majority of terrorist acts in the last two decades or so.
And yes, while the ideology itself is fairly old, it was largely propped up by 1) Saudi oil money (and the willingness of US to look the other way), and 2) CIA co-operating with ISI specifically to boost radical Islamism - meaning Salafi/Wahhabi - as a tool in the fight against the USSR, starting in Afghanistan. So you're right that Muslims themselves are also victims here; but regardless of that, the problem exists and it has a name.
...people who are really suicidal will find *some* way to kill themselves.
That's a myth: the vast majority that get help recover. Depression temporarily wrecks the ability to think rationally or see things in proportion; people with severe cases don't want specifically to die, they want to stop being trapped in mental agony and can't believe there's a way out. With most suicide attempts, the person survives and the shock of what happened dispels the depression long enough for support from friends/family, therapy and medication to bring it under control. If they try to commit suicide with a gun and don't completely botch it, most won't get that chance.
Some people do attempt it again in the future and sometimes fail to survive it, but there's typically an underlying reason -- they may have refused to take/continue medication, had another disorder causing depression, been in a situation beyond their (but not others') control, or been in the small minority that doesn't respond well to the currently-available drugs/therapies. In other words, they're not a good barometer for how likely intervention works in the rest of the population.
Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
Good CCW classes do all three.
Bullshit. You can't teach muscle memory and instinctive reactions in a three-day CCW class and you'd be foolish to think that a single CCW class would improve your chances of going up against two or more armed homicidal maniacs. They teach you just enough to get the magic number of rounds into the right place on the qualification target. I am not talking about being taught to say "Leave now or I will shoot!" while you draw down on a paper target, but rather simunition-equipped against other people in real-life scenarios. You can take advanced classes, but I (and hopefully you) both know that you need to retrain often to keep from getting rusty.
Also, remember that in a city, you can't legally take your gun into most stores or offices. If you illegally take it in, you are subject to a felony and loss of your CCW permit.
You should really specify what municipality you live in prior to spouting off like that. In Minnesota, neither of those are true. The store/office has the duty to ask you to leave ... and if you don't, you are subject to a misdemeanor and NOT loss of permit, nor loss of firearm, for first offense. MN is also technically open-carry, and I carry everywhere.
Besides, the whole point of concealed is that nobody knows you are carrying unless you show them or you submit to a check.
Hopefully you don't carry it "everywhere," otherwise you are one of those cowboys that give the rest of us gun owners a bad reputation:
Places Prohibited by statute in Minnesota (Wikipedia)
- K-12 School property
- A childcare center while children are present
- State correctional facilities or state hospitals and grounds (MN Statute 243.55)
- Any jail, lockup or correctional facility (MN Statute 641.165)
- Courthouse complexes, unless the sheriff is notified (MN Statute 609.66)
- Offices and courtrooms of the Minnesota Supreme Court and Court of Appeals
- Any state building in the immediate vicinity of the capitol building unless the commissioner of public safety is notified (MN Statute 609.66)
- In federal court facilities or other federal facilities (Title 18 U.S.C. 930)
From the NRA for Minnesota:
Concealed carry is prohibited in certain locations. These include:
- All school properties, which are defined as public, private, elementary, middle or secondary school buildings or grounds, including properties under the temporary exclusive control of a school.
- Any licensed childcare center during a time when children are present.
- Any private property where the owner or operator has posted a notice which reads, “(the owners name) BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES.”
Also, no-permit open carry in a school will get you a felony in Minnesota.
You are wrong, my politics are probably slightly left of centre. Read the Qur'an and listen to the words of Muslim clerics and you will see how anyone who believes in tolerance, equality, justice for all, and freedom of expression should opose Islam
I suppose that is the american political scale, where Ghengis Khan defines the "center"?
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
You could, if you're mobile and healthy, if you have 20ft ceilings and can do a little carpentry, or if you want the experience of slowly and painfully suffocating. There are lots of other ways too and gun control won't lower the suicide rate. But preventing people from committing suicide with guns will mainly result in a lot more botched suicides and suffering.
I thought we were talking about the last couple of decades. The Black Panthers haven't committed any acts of terrorism in that time that I recall. The Weather Underground were certainly terrorists, but haven't been active since the late 70s (35 years ago). Eco groups might well be active, but have they really committed any acts of genuine terrorism in the last 2 decades, in which people were killed or badly injured (or an attempt to do so)?
In the case of the Black Panthers, being nasty and having a distasteful political ideology doesn't make you automatically terrorists.
Prove it.
What do you want me to do, Muzzie? Curse Jesus or burn a bible or something?
You did nothing to show inaccuracy, you just claimed it.
And even if the one or two you objected to were incorrect it wouldn't change the point of the disparity on quantity.
But I note that your priority is winning pissing contests rather than the truth, otherwise you would have fixed the inaccuracy on Wikipedia.
It depends whether the actions follow from the ideology, or are coincidental.
Take for example Northern Ireland. The terrorism there was about sovereignty, not the Catholic religion. It all dates back to a botched Irish independence and a military massacre of Irish civilians by British military. So no rational person holds Catholics per se responsible for terrorism.
On the other hand, right wing atrocities, such as the ones by Timothy McVey, and Anders Breivik were driven by their right wing ideology, and was not coincidental.
The Middle Eastern terrorism belongs in the same camp as Northern Irish terrorism. The reasons are ones of reaction to imperialism not religion. Their religion is coincidental.
I don't know if you've tried google, but a very simple search for ".22LR" shows quite a few stores with bricks in stock.
There's a difference between "no ammo available" and "Wal-Mart can't re-stock the shelves fast enough for the Glenn Beck fans".
You are welcome on my lawn.
you are claiming its impossible to look excited about killing some one. Because that's what he was saying and if you missed it int the comment about the "crazed glint" then I would say that says more about you then the GP. And yes there is a chance though very slim that the one shot from an excited concealed weapons carrier.But take into consideration that the police miss far more often then then hit when they fire their weapons and there are constantly training unlike the civilians with ccw's.
The discussion was prompted by the fact that during the latest round of FBI suspect interviews conducted for the third book in the Officer Assaulted and Murdered trilogy (“Violent Encounters”), it was revealed that those suspects believed that police officers trained between two and three times a week with their firearms. In reality, most police departments only train about two times a year, averaging less than 15 hours annually. In contrast to our frequency of training, those same suspects revealed that they practiced on average 23 times a year (or almost twice a month) with their handguns.
Police are training constantly? Really? Are you sure about that? Given anecdotal 'evidence' says that police actually don't practice or train anywhere near as much as you might think, which google searches backup, I'm not sure you can say they train constantly. On the other hand most CCW people tend to go to the range at least once a month if not more frequently than that.
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
I referred specifically to your blanket statements regarding Libertarians/Republicans/gun owners in the recent past. These too represent ideologies with diverse membership. Your above reply is deflection to a different debate entirely, but nonetheless brings up an appropriate point. Catholics and Muslims as a whole should not shoulder the blame for the extremists among them, and rightly so. My question was whether this means such understanding will also be extended to Libertarians/Republicans/gun owners, because in your past commentary it has not.
I admire your defense of Muslims in the face of prejudiced comments, especially since, by your speech (use of the 3rd person), I assume you are not Muslim. It takes a person of integrity to do this. I am not wholly in the Libertarian camp, nor am I a Republican or a gun owner, and I too have come to their defense in the face of prejudiced comments. It seems you have joined my side, and I wanted to know whether it was permanent change or done out of convenience.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
No indeed. I'm an atheist and try to treat all religions with the same casual disdain, rather than hatred.
I referred specifically to your blanket statements regarding Libertarians/Republicans/gun owners in the recent past.
Libertarians and republicans I disagree with politically but don't hold them responsible for violence and terrorism. Pro gun people on the other hand I do. They value their toys over the safety of others.
Most of the pro-gun people are also either libertarian or Republican so whilst I may be attacking Libertarians/Republicans/Tea-baggers on the issue, it's because of their pro-gun views.
Now if a Muslim were to come here to express pro-gun views they too would feel the sharp end of my tongue.
That was a rather funny response, but seriously if someone offered you an ounce of gold for $20 bill, I'm fairly certain you would take it. My point was that people who advocate the purchase of gold know that in the long term the price of gold in terms of dollars or other fiat currencies has never gone down. Gold is a good means of preserving wealth, but not for deriving income from such wealth.
A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
Google. Just google. There are bricks, boxes, and individual rounds of .22RL all over the place. Also boxes and cases of .30.
I'm sorry that the stores in Georgia can't refill the shelves fast enough to satisfy the gun owners who are stocking up, but the in-stock availability in any quantity online contradicts your notion that Homeland Security has caused a shortage.
Bullets are like donuts. Shoot up, they'll make more.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Your anecdotes aside, you can get .22LR, .223 and all your popular calibers are readily available in any quantity, from individual rounds to boxes, to cases to truckloads online.
When the Apple Stores ran out of the latest iPads, was that Homeland Security buying them all up too?
There are 300,000,000 guns in civilian hands in the US. That's one gun for every human being over the age of about 6. They are being told that guns and ammo are going to disappear. Do you really need a conspiracy theory to understand why shops are selling out?
You are welcome on my lawn.
I agree. Your imagination is the most likely culprit.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Wow. Just wow.
Walk with blinders much? Do you even pay attention to the conversations of which you participate?
It was claimed:
"Now look at the list of terror attacks in 2012"
To which you responded with several citations to counter the original posters position. Then you summarized with the following:
"If you guess every terrorism attack in the USA is Islamic, you're going to be wrong more often than you are right."
I pointed out both the inaccuracies of your source AND how you misinterpreted the data. I suggested you look at the entire "alleged" section to see just how many were in fact Islamic based (which would make him right more often than wrong).
Your response was to ignore your failure to make your point and suggest I go "fix" your source material. Again, that's not my job. You made a claim and backed it up with faulty information. You need to either let your argument die or come up with better source material. Please note I'm ignoring the back-handed insult fashion in which you presented your "suggestion" to fix the wiki. Real classy by the way.
You want to suggest my 'priority is winning pissing contests rather than the truth'? Really? You are ignoring the 'truth' that your position has no foundation -- and in fact, the inverse is strongly suggestive of being accurate using your OWN sources (if one actually takes the time to interpret the data presented). What a pretentious prat.
I'll keep "pissing" with my eyes open, you keep walking down the street with blinders on spitting at anyone who tells you to look left, right or tries to warn you not to step in your own filth.
Ah no. The IRA were terrorists. The British soldiers may have committed a crime, but they weren't terrorists.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Depends on how you define terrorists. The IRA maintained that they had declared a state, and they were state actors, therefore not terrorists.
I think the term "terrorist" is too political to use in most debates.
My point was that people who advocate the purchase of gold know that in the long term the price of gold in terms of dollars or other fiat currencies has never gone down. Gold is a good means of preserving wealth, but not for deriving income from such wealth.
Excellent point on wealth versus income, I see you know your balance sheet. I was soul-searching to discover why gold-over-time comparisons tickle my funny bone, aside from being generally perverse. Not so savvy as Karl Denninger who has his reasons to be bearish on gold as an investment or plaything. As one who has never owned any gold or even more than a fistful of dollars I don't implicitly trust either, so I find it easy to make light of the choices that people of wealth are facing right now.
While pondering the dollar and gold I grew bored and made a sandwich, and contemplated that instead. Bread you can sink your teeth into, and throughout history love of it has transcended love of fiat money and precious metal.
Looking into bread vs. gold, I found this, "it is said that an ounce of gold bought 350 loaves of bread in the time of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, who died in 562 BC" (cited here)
Fascinating! What if you view bread itself as the exchange pivot plotted against on gold (for the US via the dollar)? A quick search did not reveal anyone who had done it, so I gathered gold fixes and one-pound-loaf statistics for the hundred years of 1913-2012 and created a gold:bread ratio. How many loaves/pounds of bread 'buys' an ounce of gold. Here is my resulting chart and data.
So in 1913 the gold:bread ratio was ~337.9 which is comparable to Nebuchadnezzar's time. It stayed more or less in the same magnitude until the 1971 Nixon Shock when gold heads through the roof. Bread rises steadily but gold's rise is meteoric.
1980 is the worst-ever year for bread, with ~1,281 loaves to purchase an ounce of gold. We're so used to seeing things from the dollar/gold point of view but 1970 and 2001 were really great years for bread, with gold purchasing power twice what it had in Babylon.
Then we went to war and everything went to hell. But the gold:bread chart does offer one surprise: even though gold is massive right now, the actual gold:bread ratio is similar to what it was in 1980 before it started to fall.
So what we need right now is a Reganomics sandwich.
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
Sure, my point was though that there are also groupings of just about any religion (and even atheism when you consider sections of the far right) who also fall under that same category.
The problem is he isn't just singling out violent groups, but is focussing entirely on Islam as a whole and it's that that fundamentally separates him from being someone examining the genuine problem of violent subgroupings of Islam and someone whose pursuing the far right mindset without any degree of rationality.
I have no problem with people focussing on violent groups, but to just write off 1.3bn people as terrorists requires a certain degree of mental retardation.
I'm very happy with both the point I made and to use Wikipedia as evidence. Indeed academics have studied Wikipedia and found it to be more accurate than printed encyclopedias.
You allege Wikipedia is wrong. It's not my job to check out your claim, and I haven't. As I said if you believe Wikipedia is wrong, fix it. If you don't it makes no difference to my point nor my evidence.
Hey, pretty nice you did a lot of work! Since most people exchange their time for things they need, like bread, an interesting study would be how long a person on average would have to work in order to earn a loaf of bread. I instinctively feel that at least in the US most people today are better off on that score. In the end, money, including the gold form of money is only an intermediary. It could be interesting to do this study for other basic commodities, such as housing, transportation, communication, medical etc. in terms of hours needed to work in order to obtain a years worth of these things.
A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
James vonn Brunn: FrontPage Magazine has a rundown, although perhaps slanted. From his own words, he was anti-capitalist and pro socialism, but I'd accept an argument the was more plain crazy than left wing. Here are some addtional examples of people initially speculated to be right wing that weren't. Out of the 8 examples, 5 were arguably left wing. From your examples, white supremacism doesn't really fit cleanly on a left/right axis, and really, left/right is inadequate but I was responding to someone using that axis. Anti-abortion is usually right wing, but not always.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
That is taking a very strict view of "right wing" and a very liberal view of "left wing". It is generally accepted that fascism falls on the right of the left/right spectrum, if anywhere. Fascism commonly uses "socialist" as a phrase to describe itself, due to it's focus on syndicalism and/or corporatism, and it's focus on "strength in unity" nationalism. It is also generally considered anti-capitalist. The use of the phrase "socialist" by fascists is generally considered to be almost completely unrelated, in a philosophical sense, to the common usage of "socialism" to refer to the ideology derived from or related to Marxism. To quote Brunn himself:
WESTERN SOCIALISM, unlike Marxism/Communism and Capitalism, emanates not from Reason alone but from the ETHOS OF THE WEST. It expresses the instinctive and Intuitive feelings UNIQUE to the Aryan Nation. Its Idea is the Musketeers' cry: “One for All and All for One!” The ingathering of the White Nation-States into ONE CULTURAL ORGANISM — its own territory and its own State in which to house, protect, and nurture the Nation — precludes Marxist inspired class warfare and hate-struggles between its component parts. The ECONOMY springs from the CULTURE. MONEY becomes merely a tool, a means of exchange, a storage of value — not an ILLUMINATI weapon.”
So that would be the anti-Marx, corporatist use of the term "socialism" usually attributed to fascism. Mixed with a good dose of the crazies.
Contrary to the common view, left/right is not synonymous with socialism/capitalism. "Left wing" is a term that is generally taken to include socialism, communism, social anarchism, anarcho-syndaclism, and the green movement- which are all pretty much mutually exclusive and not directly related to each other. "Right wing" at the very least includes free market capitalism, fascism, theocracy and monarchism- again, generally mutually exclusive, nor directly related.
I would dispute fascism being right wing. I wouldn't really place it on the left either. Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy. Just because it is commonly believed doesn't make it true. On economic policy, they were more left than right, but that isn't their sole determining characteristic. Deciding where exactly to place them is a pointless argument in the first place.
In any event, my original point, that mass murderers aren't more likely to be right wing, still holds true. I used the term 'arguably' for the people on that list I linked to for a reason, because it usually isn't clear even with significant markers one way or the other.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari