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Medical Firm Sues IRS For 4th Amendment Violation In Records Seizure

cold fjord writes "A healthcare provider has sued the Internal Revenue Service and 15 of its agents, charging they wrongfully seized 60 million medical records from 10 million Americans ... [The unnamed company alleges] the agency violated the Fourth Amendment in 2011, when agents executed a search warrant for financial data on one employee – and that led to the seizure of information on 10 million, including state judges. The search warrant did not specify that the IRS could take medical information, UPI said. And information technology officials warned the IRS about the potential to violate medical privacy laws before agents executed the warrant, the complaint said." Also at Nextgov.com.

365 comments

  1. Hazardous to our Health by Jetra · · Score: 1

    I was expecting the CDC to pull this stunt, but the IRS?

    1. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama's IRS. As Obama's major fluffer says, "the law is irrelevant"

    2. Re:Hazardous to our Health by cold+fjord · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh, it's more than that. The IRS is the key enforcer for the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

      Your Next IRS Political Audit - The tax agency is getting vast new power in health care
      The IRS Is Accessing Your Health Records. You Trust Them?

      The US Government needs to get the problems at that agency fixed, now. Between this and the suppression of political groups going on, this is intollerable and undemocratic. What did Franklin say? A Republic, if you can keep it?

      The IRS’s Curious Immunity - It’s worse than the PATRIOT Act.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    3. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US Government needs to get the problems at that agency fixed, now.

      What problem? The issues you are referring to are features of the IRS that led to it being chosen for its role as the key enforcer of the Affordable Care Act, not bugs that would lead those who passed that law to consider it unwise to give it that additional power.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    4. Re:Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sadly, the guys who idolize President Obama don't care about this story, or the many others. To them, it's just the conservatives/GOP showing their hatred of the first black president, nothing more.

      So, I've given up hope that they will see the light of what this administration is like. They'll keep voting for guys like him, who will bring this country down very soon. There is no avoiding that fate. I'm not clamoring for revolution, but I think a civil war is coming.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    5. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Besides, "this was a long time ago"

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    6. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Dishevel · · Score: 4, Funny

      and, At this point what difference does it make?

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    7. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Mike+Frett · · Score: 0

      Voting for a Republican is going to make it all better huh. After they kiss your wounded feelings, they are going to kick you in the cojones, amigo.

    8. Re:Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Check my previous comments. I voted for a "third party" candidate with morals. One that would make you feel like a kid who was caught stealing a candy bar in comparison.

      Also, check my sig. No political party should get a pass on corruption and deceit, yet both of the two main parties manage to do so because of people like you.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    9. Re:Hazardous to our Health by stuntpope · · Score: 1

      He stated the law was irrelevant in judging whether the actions were wrong or not. Illegal? Actions wrong. Legal? Actions wrong. He also said, “The activity was outrageous and inexcusable, and it was stopped and it needs to be fixed to ensure it never happens again.”

      Understand now?

    10. Re:Hazardous to our Health by stuntpope · · Score: 1

      This is in reference to the IRS actions regarding Tea Party organizations' tax-exempt applications, not the healthcare record story. The 501C4 imbroglio is what Coward referred to in comment about Pfeiffer's "the law is irrelevant" remark.

    11. Re:Hazardous to our Health by amiga3D · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not about Republican versus Democrat. Everywhere it counts they are the same. When it comes to fucking over the country they are bipartisan. They differ only on peripheral issues that, while important to the public, are irrelevant to the things which really matter to those who rule. Things like abortion, religion, racism, affirmative action, and gay marriage are just hot button issues used to divide the public so that the elite can rule us better. As long as we're hating each other over things that don't matter to our rulers then it's all good. You can give up though, it's hopeless. Every single time I pointed out how bad GW Bush was all any of his supporters had to say was "he's not as bad as those evil Democrats" and when I point out the fallacies of the Obama administration all I get is "at least he's better than those evil neo-cons!" People have their side and they are oblivious to anything other than how bad the other side is.

    12. Re:Hazardous to our Health by cold+fjord · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Voting for a Republican is going to make it all better huh.

      It has been pointed out many times before: If you want something approximating consistent media scrutiny of the executive branch in the last few decades, given the current values of the media, you need to have a Republican president. A large part of the media has been carrying water for the Obama administration from the start. The only thing that might be turning that around in any meaningful way is the AP scandal - What!? They spy on us too?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    13. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Freddybear · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Read between the lines: "the law is irrelevant" so there will be no legal repercussions. It's the Chicago Way.

    14. Re:Hazardous to our Health by DKlineburg · · Score: 1

      unfortunately most people seem to automatically assume you are the opposite of what you say you have a dislike for. I am with you at this point. Both sides are being bad. I don't have a solution, and I don't like the way things appear to be headed.

      --
      Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
    15. Re:Hazardous to our Health by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      OK, I might even buy that. I'm registered Republican. But the party is going to have to do a better job in terms of fielding candidates than the right wing-nut losers that they've been digging up. The Republicans have a number of center - right politicians with brains, the problem is the rest of the party has neither brains nor cojones.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    16. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check my previous comments. I voted for a "third party" candidate with morals. One that would make you feel like a kid who was caught stealing a candy bar in comparison.

      Also, check my sig. No political party should get a pass on corruption and deceit, yet both of the two main parties manage to do so because of people like you.

      I haven't seen any third party candidate with morals, well the Greens may have morals, but their candidate is batshit crazy.

      In fact in given my choice between voting for any of the third candidates, I'd vote Republican.

    17. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only because the conservative are rapidly becoming irrelevant, and its God and Guns all the way!

    18. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Freddybear · · Score: 1

      It gets better. The IRS commissioner who was in charge when the IRS was denying tax-exempt status to right-wing political groups is now in charge of implementing Obamacare requirements. Naw, there won't be any partisan shenanigans. How dare you even think that? You wouldn't want your dear old granny to be denied that hip operation now would you?

    19. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, with the IRS as the enforcement agency for Obamacare, the Government will have all of everybodies' medical records. How else will they know whom to deny gun rights?

    20. Re:Hazardous to our Health by msauve · · Score: 2

      Would you like some bread to eat while you're watching the circus?

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    21. Re:Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Check my previous comments. I voted for a "third party" candidate with morals. One that would make you feel like a kid who was caught stealing a candy bar in comparison.

      Also, check my sig. No political party should get a pass on corruption and deceit, yet both of the two main parties manage to do so because of people like you.

      I haven't seen any third party candidate with morals, well the Greens may have morals, but their candidate is batshit crazy.

      In fact in given my choice between voting for any of the third candidates, I'd vote Republican.

      Yes, you have guessed the right party; Jill Stein got my vote. And it isn't just the candidates who are batshit crazy. But I'll generally vote for honest batshit over obviously duplicitous mastermind any day.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    22. Re:Hazardous to our Health by hedwards · · Score: 2

      That's not true. Bush got over 5 years before the media stopped kissing his ass after 9/11. Clinton spent most of his Presidency explaining as the press dug into things which weren't reasonable related to Presidency.

      Face it, the media sucks up to the GOP because if they don't, the GOP cries about the "liberal" media, never mind that the media itself is already right of center.

    23. Re:Hazardous to our Health by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      Maybe I'll just have some cake.

    24. Re:Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Bush was declared "Commander in Thief" by many in the media before he even got into office. So your example fails utterly.

      And thanks for proving my original point in new and ingenious ways.

      Disclaimer: Yes, I voted for George W. Bush over Al Gore. Also over the third party candidates I looked into that year. Based on what I saw of each candidate, I agreed with Bush's policies more than with the others'. He was also the last Republican I voted for. See my sig for further details.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    25. Re:Hazardous to our Health by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      That's not true. Bush got over 5 years before the media stopped kissing his ass after 9/11.

      So you're saying that Bush really only had opposition in the media for the last 2-3 years of his term? I think you have a different recollection than I do, and what the facts might suggest.

      Face it, the media sucks up to the GOP because if they don't, the GOP cries about the "liberal" media, never mind that the media itself is already right of center.

      Two things. First, I haven't noticed the media bend all that much to that objection.

      Second, "right of center" media? It might look that way to you, but that is because you are probably running into a parallax problem which is exacerbated by your left of left of center politics.

      Do journalists' political donations (mostly Democratic) = news bias?

      All of this prompted Investors Business Daily to publish a trenchant op-ed by William Tate that reported on his examination of Federal Election Commission records for donations by journalists.

      You'll never guess what he says he found -- 235 journalists donating to Democrats while only 20 gave to Republicans for a total of $225,563 to Democrats and $16,298 to the the GOP-inclined.

      That's small potatoes moneywise in terms of the nearly $1 billion collected so far in this election cycle. But Tate sees a valuable built-in bias among Democratic journalists for candidates of their party.

      Last summer Bill Dedman at MSNBC did a massive research project, examining political donations by journalists over several years and found a similar overwhelming number of Democratic journalists (125 of 143 political donors while only 16 gave to Republican candidates

      Journalists as a group tend toward progressive or liberal, not center, or center right. If they look right of center to you, you might want to think about recalibrating your mental peg of where your politics are on the continuum.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    26. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      And you might want to check and see where American politics fits on everybody else's political spectrum.

      Only in the US is Obama regarded as "leftist". Elsewhere, he's considered a bit to the right of centre.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    27. Re:Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Only in the US is Obama regarded as "leftist". Elsewhere, he's considered a bit to the right of centre.

      Why?

      I don't understand this line of thought.

      Obama supports abortion, high taxes on the wealthy, government oversight and funding of private business, national healthcare, expanded welfare/benefits, and many other leftist planks.

      What does he support that is right of center, other than not closing Gitmo and immediately ending the war in Afghanistan?

      Support for Wall Street? He routinely demonizes them as greedy fat cats, and then cons them out of huge sums of money in campaign contributions.

      What else? Please list his right wing ideologies.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    28. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Obama supports abortion, high taxes on the wealthy, government oversight and funding of private business, national healthcare, expanded welfare/benefits, and many other leftist planks.

      listening to what comes out of his mouth or prepared statements. see, that's a common mistake idiots make.

    29. Re:Hazardous to our Health by bratwiz · · Score: 1

      I was expecting the CDC to pull this stunt, but the IRS?

      So what, they're the IRS.

    30. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm afraid you don't really understand politics in the US, it isn't like Germany, the UK, or Sweden. Party discipline isn't really practiced in the same way. American parties still have different ideological wings, although they are withered compared to what they were 30-40 years ago.

      There certainly are hard leftists in the US, including real honest-to-Marx-and-Lenin communists. The difference is that in the US, there is very little support for them for elected office if the voters understand that is who is running. As a result, those on the far left rhetorically camouflage themselves with more moderate labels to merge with the established moderate left.

      President Obama, who is clearly a man of the left, gained office by regular election, not revolution or coup. As such he is limited to working within the system, and there is very little appetite in the US for open socialism, beyond a point, or communism. So, even if he is, hypothetically speaking, a man of the hard left, many of America's institutions and values are center/center-right. US institutions can't be decreed away, but must be incrementally voted away, and regulated away, until more substantial change is possible.

      I have little doubt President Obama means well, and is doing what he thinks is in the best interests of the US. I just don't believe he is correct in his belief.

      Maybe you've heard of Bill Ayers, someone that helped Barack Obama on this way politically? Here is some information you might find interesting from his days in the Weather Underground.

      William Ayers' forgotten communist manifesto: Prairie Fire

      Undercover agent Larry Grathwohl, who had infiltrated and joined the Weather Underground, described their post-revolution governing plans for the United States in this video taken from the 1982 documentary "No Place to Hide." The Weather Underground openly discussed exterminating 25 million Americans who refused to be "re-educated" into communism.

      Here's a transcript of his interview:

      I bought up the subject of what's going to happen after we take over the government. We, we become responsible, then, for administrating, you know, 250 million people.

      And there was no answers. No one had given any thought to economics; how are you going to clothe and feed these people.

      The only thing that I could get, was that they expected that the Cubans and the North Vietnamese and Chinese and the Russians would all want to occupy different portions of the United States.

      They also believed that their immediate responsibility would be to protect against what they called the counter-revolution. And they felt that this counter-revolution could best be guarded against by creating and establishing re-education centers in the southwest, where we would take all the people who needed to be re-educated into the new way of thinking and teach them... how things were going to be.

      I asked, well, what's going to happen to those people that we can't re-educate; that are die-hard capitalists. And the reply was that they'd have to be eliminated. And when I pursued this further, they estimated that they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these re-education centers. And when I say eliminate, I mean kill. 25 million people.

      The US doesn't merely have a hard left, it has a hard left that would fit right into a Stalinist or Pol Pot regime.

    31. Re: Hazardous to our Health by Mabhatter · · Score: 2

      Because in the REST of the word those things you listed are NORMAL EXPECTATIONS of government, they don't count as being "left". The last true "Left" discussion in the USA was between the 1890 depression and the 1930 depression... At least we got National Parks out of the deal.

    32. Re: Hazardous to our Health by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      The 501(c)4 "tax exempt" group is where the big loophole for corporations are people and can donate unlimited money anonymously land. That classification was supposed to be a very narrow group, like a labor union which number in a few hundred requests per year.. The IRS got THOUSANDS of requests right before the elections. The filers could have used a 527 political PAC but donations are TRACKED through those organizations. It was fishy as hell and the IRS was totally correct to hold up the filings for a short time.

      http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/501c4-vs-501c3-vs-527/

    33. Re:Hazardous to our Health by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Gees talk about grow up. This is all about technology and how do you isolate data when a search warrant is issued. You have no idea what data is on those hard drives until you have forensic examined them ie pointless taking the word of the people involved as duh that is why a search warrant and data seizure was implemented in the first place. Obviously the medical firm is attempting a legal counter strike because they know they are guilty as hell and are attempting to taint the evidence guilt by a frivolous civil suite.

      Now can you care to explain, how anybody, any agency, can decide what is or is not on any storage device prior to examining it as they can not legally take the word of the person holding the data.

      Talk about attempting in the most amazingly stupid politically biased fashion to make a mountain out of a mole hill. What the fuck is passing as news in the rabid attempt to politicise anything and everything with one gross exaggeration after another.

      This has always been the hassle with data seizures, what is legally allowed to be taken and what is not, without taking it and examining it, can you spend a month on site and basically shut it down while all the data stored is examined and only the legally warrantable information is copied.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    34. Re:Hazardous to our Health by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Ah, love that passive voice and shifting of responsibility. As Stewart said: “I wouldn’t be surprised if President Obama learned Osama bin Laden had been killed when he saw himself announcing it on television”

    35. Re:Hazardous to our Health by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Voting for the right presidential candidate in the primaries might make it better; that's where we really decide the direction of the country.

      You're more likely to find small government primary candidates among Republicans, although we haven't had one win the primaries in many years, sadly.

    36. Re: Hazardous to our Health by Freddybear · · Score: 1

      The IRS was completely partisan about whose applications they held up. Democrat groups got approved right away. Tea Party did not.
      No, they were not totally correct. The IRS was politicized.

    37. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolute junk. USA is the only country where ACA-style are seen as 'left-wing' and socialist (remember, this was the same planned endorsed by the Heritage foundation). A left-wing solution in most other countries is single-payer.

      If you don't think that right-wing USA isn't extremely right-wing, and left-wing USA isn't centre-left then you need to go visit any other country (Australia, Canada, anywhere in Europe), as it's blatantly obvious you haven't had any experience of what a political continuum is.

    38. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US Government needs to get the problems at that agency fixed, now.

      What problem? The issues you are referring to are features of the IRS that led to it being chosen for its role as the key enforcer of the Affordable Care Act, not bugs that would lead those who passed that law to consider it unwise to give it that additional power.

      I love features :D
      http://www.memecenter.com/fun/17562/Bug-vs-Feature

    39. Re: Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Thank you for your response.

      What positions do you consider to be "left", if the ones I listed above are center or center-right?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    40. Re:Hazardous to our Health by L.+J.+Beauregard · · Score: 1

      denying tax-exempt status to right-wing political groups

      Propaganda. Not one Tea Party group that kept its application was denied.

      --
      Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
      Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
    41. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Freddybear · · Score: 1

      Propaganda back atcha. Right-wing groups withdrew their applications because the IRS made inappropriate demands for information, because they couldn't afford lawyers to fight it. Demands that were not made of left-wing groups.
      The IRS already admitted this. You don't have a leg to stand on.

    42. Re:Hazardous to our Health by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      If you don't think that right-wing USA isn't extremely right-wing, and left-wing USA isn't centre-left then you need to go visit any other country (Australia, Canada, anywhere in Europe), as it's blatantly obvious you haven't had any experience of what a political continuum is.

      I would be tempted to answer you, but I see another AC post just above this (literally as I see it) that I will direct you to. I think that nicely addresses some aspects of a perceived lack of a "real left" in the US.

      For further reading:

      Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    43. Re:Hazardous to our Health by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      Voting for someone with a desire for smaller, less powerful and less invasive government might. "Republican" doesnt fit that bill, and most people that are looking for the former often vote for the latter only out of lack of viable options. At least the bulk of professional republicans will drive us off the cliff in first gear rather than in fifth.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    44. Re:Hazardous to our Health by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      No need to deny an application if you can keep it in limbo for 3+ years. Then you can claim "we didn't deny anybody!" and technically be right.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    45. Re:Hazardous to our Health by hardwarefreak · · Score: 1

      I'm not clamoring for revolution, but I think a civil war is coming.

      Civil war is citizen against citizen. This will not occur.. What will occur will be a revolution, which is citizens against the government, assuming ignornat citizens continue to use the ballot box as they have for many decades. Thankfully the framers of our Constitution realized the fledgling Democratic Replublic they'd just created could very well fail for the very reasons monarchies in Europe were failing--corruptoin, greed, power consolidation, unfair taxation, unjust imprisonment, tyrrany, etc. Thus they amended the Constitution for the 2nd time, making sure citizens had sufficient firepower to overthrow the new govt should it become necessary. It may shock some here to learn that the sole purpose of the 2nd amendment is to guarantee the ability of the citizens to overthrow the government. The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, sport shooting, self defense, etc, as some politicians have led you to believe in the modern era. The 2nd amendment is a hedge created by the framers, a safety net, enabling the citizens to take down and replace the government should it become corrupt to the point that the ballot box no longer functions. This is the genesis of the modern saying "soap box, ballot box, ammo box--use in that order". This is precisely what the framers had in mind.

    46. Re:Hazardous to our Health by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You've looked at the employees of organizations, now run the same thing for the owners of those organizations.

    47. Re: Hazardous to our Health by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Single payer health care - left
      Forced insurance (buy from a state-approved private company or be a criminal) - right

      "support equality" - neutral/leaning right
      Introduce legislation affirming gay marriage - left

      "support" high taxes on the wealthy, but not pass them - right
      Passing high taxes on the wealthy - left

      You are taking what he says and what he does when it suits your argument. He speaks left and acts right. Where is the reset of capital gains to a general income without extra deductions? Not there? Then he supports tax breaks for the wealthy, even if he doesn't state it that way.

    48. Re:Hazardous to our Health by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The answer is "Bill Ayers" is who Obama is a hard-left communist. Even though everything Obama does (not says, actually does) is right out of the modern US conservative playbook.

    49. Re:Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      I'm not clamoring for revolution, but I think a civil war is coming.

      Civil war is citizen against citizen. This will not occur.

      Actually, this is exactly what I think will start it. Some action or event will cause the delivery of food to the big cities to stop. Cities only have a few days worth of food on store shelves, which is why they always get emptied before/during big storms. Even if half the people in the cities stocked up on canned goods and non-perishables, that leaves millions with half a loaf of bread and a carton of milk the next day. Once that food supply is gone, millions of people are going to be looking for more food.

      They are going to riot (because that is the default fall back), demanding "the government do something". When that doesn't help they will trying to take food from each other. People are going to die. But there will still be only so much food available.

      So then the crowds of survivors start to stream out of the cities into the surrounding areas, attacking the people there who have food. More people will die. From both groups. And then it devolves into a full-on civil war, between those who have food and those who don't.

      That's how I see it happening, anyway.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    50. Re: Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      I would say he is on the left of those issues, but can't force the Republican controlled House to pass bills that he likes.

      Where you see him speak left and act right, I see him speak far left and complain the right won't work with him to accomplish his agenda. And then insult them for good measure.

      Basically, he acts like a petulant child.

      Bill Clinton, as much as I dislike him, knew how to get a good portion of his stuff through Congress. He knew how to work the room. Obama still acts like the community organizer many on the right see him as - just an agitator who is happy to get crumbs for his people, and reaffirm that they need him for more.

      I can see we two don't agree on things, but I appreciate your viewpoint.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    51. Re: Hazardous to our Health by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      [He] can't force the Republican controlled House to pass bills that he likes.

      He can at least submit them, even if rejected. But he doesn't even try.

    52. Re: Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      By the way, I'd like to give my views on those four areas.

      Single payer health care - left
      Forced insurance (buy from a state-approved private company or be a criminal) - right

      If there could be a single payer system that could work better then our current system (before Obamacare), I would actually support it. I don't believe there can be such a system in the US. We are not like European countries. We are too complex for their systems to work for us.

      As an example, Germany has the second highest population of European countries, and is the sixth largest in land area. Germany has a higher population density than all but four of our states. Those four are all among our smallest sized states. Things that work well in densely populated countries may not work so well in our mid-western states, which have much lower population density.

      That would mean either it would have to cost far more for us to implement, or people would not be serviced as well in those areas. A national healthcare system can't be a disadvantage to that large a portion of the population, so the cost would have to increase. So, as I said above, plans that work in individual European countries will not work the same here, for the same cost.

      "support equality" - neutral/leaning right
      Introduce legislation affirming gay marriage - left

      I would rather the government get out of the marriage business altogether. Why does the government have any say in who a church can marry? All the legal issues a marriage certificate grants could be done by standard government regulations we already have (wills, adoption, medical decisions, etc), by competing the standard forms used now by people who are not couples.

      "support" high taxes on the wealthy, but not pass them - right
      Passing high taxes on the wealthy - left

      I would prefer removing the tax burden from the non-wealthy completely. Give every citizen (tax payer) a deductible that is 5 times the poverty level for their area and number of dependents. If your annual income is expected to be below that, you don't even have income taxes withdrawn from your paycheck. Most Americans then would have no big headaches over filing, no worries about exact documentation, no IRS audits. The people who make above that level, which would vary based on cost-of-living rates, would be "the rich" who pay taxes.

      Of course, then thousands of H&R Block employees and IRS employees would be out of work. That's a different issue.

      You are taking what he says and what he does when it suits your argument. He speaks left and acts right. Where is the reset of capital gains to a general income without extra deductions? Not there? Then he supports tax breaks for the wealthy, even if he doesn't state it that way.

      Capital gains issues should be split into two categories. On the one hand, you have rich fat cats like Warren Buffet who figured out he can get paid in company shares and pay less taxes than on the same level of salaried income. The other group is average American workers who have an investment portfolio for their nest egg or children's college fund. If the higher taxes on capital gains could be limited only to the first group, I wouldn't care too much. But raising it blindly is going to hit every hourly pay worker or small business owner who managed to save a little for later.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    53. Re: Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      [He] can't force the Republican controlled House to pass bills that he likes.

      He can at least submit them, even if rejected. But he doesn't even try.

      You're right. I just don't see that as him being right wing. I see it as him not being qualified to sit in the Oval Office.

      Not to leech off Chris Mathews to prove my point, but even he pointed out that is seems like Obama doesn't want to actually be 'the President'. He doesn't want to do the hard work expected of the position.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    54. Re: Hazardous to our Health by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      If there could be a single payer system that could work better then our current system (before Obamacare), I would actually support it. I don't believe there can be such a system in the US. We are not like European countries. We are too complex for their systems to work for us.

      Ah yes, the traditional "the [wherever I am] is different and unique, nothing from anywhere else ever would ever work." I see that as an excuse for idiots who don't want to learn history or current events. Single-payer works in places similar to the US.

      Of course, then thousands of H&R Block employees and IRS employees would be out of work. That's a different issue.

      That's also the real problem. Fair Tax is a bad idea, but it'll never get far enough to get shot down in honest debate as it should be. Because the accounting firms will spend billions to prevent it.

      The other group is average American workers who have an investment portfolio for their nest egg or children's college fund. If the higher taxes on capital gains could be limited only to the first group, I wouldn't care too much. But raising it blindly is going to hit every hourly pay worker or small business owner who managed to save a little for later.

      Yes, lets make sure we don't inconvenience the top 1% for the 1/10th of 1% that are middle class investors. Have you looked at the actual demographics? You are protecting a non-existent middle-class investor.

    55. Re: Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Well, this is saddening. I thought we were having a rather pleasant conversation, from two separate ideological niches. I gave my thoughts about these areas to separate my niche from the general right-wing conservative stance I'm often lumped into.

      And for that you spit in my face.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    56. Re: Hazardous to our Health by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      "that'll never work because the US is unique in ways I can't (or won't) describe" isn't a useful statement. It's a lame excuse made by fools. And it's *always* wrong. Name any one reason the US is "unique" and I'll find two places that bracket the issue. Usually, the problem is population density or something like that, but when you compare individual states to other countries, the comparisons are nearly identical. There's no reason we couldn't have a state run, federally funded program. We do that with lots of welfare now. So, the "I know this to be false, but I won't tell you why. Neener neener neener" argument of the "unique" USA will be met with spit. It deserves no more than that.

      The US system is complex by design. You can't fix complex, you can only make it more complex to try to fix something else that's already broken. That's the basis of your argument. I find that stupid (oops, did I spit in your face again?). You can fix complex by discarding it. Yes, nationalize health care with a single payer system, and the system is no longer "complex" The proposed fix addresses your complaint. So your complain is an argument *for* single-payer, not against. You've stated nothing that indicates single payer would be bad or hard for the US, and only listed reasons why it would be good, then declared you listed reasons why it wouldn't work (I'd be too simple, easy, and efficient, it would never work!). Pointing out hypocrisy from someone with an anti-hypocrisy sig is apparently offensive.

      I can live with that.

    57. Re: Hazardous to our Health by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Are you done being an ass?

      Because nothing you just ranted applied to my post. I can explain why, but you won't listen anyway. So why should I bother?

      And you have turned into the perfect example of why my sig is spot on. You don't actually want conversation. You want agreement.

      I've spent hours, days, and weeks arguing with your kind before. The fact that I can meet you halfway just pisses you off more because I won't march lockstep with you down the road to your dream. At the end of the day, you are just another autocrat wannabe, happily exterminating anybody who disagrees with you.

      Thanks for taking off the mask.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    58. Re:Hazardous to our Health by billd10 · · Score: 0

      IRS=Hitler Brown Shirts.

  2. New IRS dress code by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1, Interesting

    When will the IRS start issuing jack boots to all agents? I didn't read TFA, but the summary seems to make it clear that someone understood that there was a potential HIPPA issue. Incompetence is one thing, but it sounds like this goes beyond that. I wonder who's going to take the fall for this one? There appears to be a bit of a vacuum developing in the upper echelon of the IRS.

    1. Re:New IRS dress code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one will take the fall.

    2. Re:New IRS dress code by Mitreya · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When will the IRS start issuing jack boots to all agents?

      I'd be more curious who gets the money if they win? From TFA:

      The suit seeks $25,000 in compensatory damages, per violation. The recordsâ(TM) seizure could impact up to one in 25 Americans, UPI said.

      I assume they will be passing that money to affected Americans?

    3. Re:New IRS dress code by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      You know the drill. The lawyers will get $120 million, the company that filed the suit will get $2-3 million, and everyone else will get 25 cents provided they show up in person to collect it.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re:New IRS dress code by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I assume they will be passing that money to affected Americans?

      Suing the government for massive amounts of money, in terms of society as a whole, is about as productive as sending yourself a wire transfer. A bunch of fees and no net gain.

      Any money the IRS would pay out, would simply have to be collected back from the people.

    5. Re:New IRS dress code by Nyder · · Score: 1

      When will the IRS start issuing jack boots to all agents?

      I'd be more curious who gets the money if they win? From TFA:

      The suit seeks $25,000 in compensatory damages, per violation. The recordsâ(TM) seizure could impact up to one in 25 Americans, UPI said.

      I assume they will be passing that money to affected Americans?

      Do they ever? No.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    6. Re:New IRS dress code by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      $25k * 10M = $250b. That leaves ~$250b to go to the 10M Americans. Assuming $125M is taken off the top, that leaves $24,987.50 per American, or a $12.50 loss.

      You seem to have got lost in the scale of this law suit. Even if the lawyer creamed a billion dollars, that's still only $100 per claiment - 0.4%

    7. Re:New IRS dress code by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      It's a net gain for those collecting the money, in that the affected class is only a tiny percentage of the entire pool of taxpayers.

    8. Re:New IRS dress code by msauve · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep. Which means the only real solution, and deterrent, is to place personal responsibility upon those who ordered and implemented these activities. Start firing people and taking away their cushy government pensions and benefits, instead of letting them resign into comfy retirement, and you'll start seeing change.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    9. Re:New IRS dress code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since this is a medical records issue the money goes to the same people who collect from violators of the ACA who don't have insurance... since that's a tax and not a fine that means the IRS will collect the damages.

    10. Re:New IRS dress code by ACluk90 · · Score: 1

      First off, that would be $24987.50 per affected American. Second, this whole thing is ridiculous as the results is quite simple: The US taxpayers pay the IRS and the IRS pays the affected US taxpayers. Not only do the IRS probably not really care as they don't really have to pay anything (they will just get it again from you), but it is also a ridiculous money transfer from the people who were not affected to those who were (a random set of people).

    11. Re:New IRS dress code by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      That's what I said when I said "$250b to go to the 10M Americans". 10 million, the number affected, not all 320+ million of them.

      The 10 million people who set to gain from the money transfer certainly care. So do their lawyers. The IRS still needs to abide by the law, regardless of where its funding comes from. If the IRS was a private company that collected tax on behalf the of government, would it be any different?

    12. Re:New IRS dress code by alexo · · Score: 1

      Yep. Which means the only real solution, and deterrent, is to place personal responsibility upon those who ordered and implemented these activities. Start firing people and taking away their cushy government pensions and benefits, instead of letting them resign into comfy retirement, and you'll start seeing change.

      No no no no no!

      When you commit a crime, you don't get "fired from a cushy job", you go to jail.
      Why should these people be treated differently?

  3. IRS+scientology / fighting the IRS = no winners by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Scientology has been the only group that has fought the IRS and won, albeit with dirty tricks and pressure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Dispute_of_religion_status : the IRS claimed that it was all above-board and had nothing to do with the tactics and push-through of Scientology
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White : the theft of private and privileged documents from the IRS offices and from other governmental agencies
    even Wikipedia thinks that CoS plays dirty and doesn't play fair

    If it takes that level of psychopathy and money and criminal activity in order to successfully fight against the IRS, what odds does a company with legitimate meritorious claims against the IRS have? None? :>(

    1. Re:IRS+scientology / fighting the IRS = no winners by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Scientology has been the only group that has fought the IRS and won

      Huh? The IRS loses all the time. Even if you just narrow the list down to religious groups pushing the boundaries of what qualifies for the religious tax-exempt status, the IRS lost to a church that was endorsing political candidates.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:IRS+scientology / fighting the IRS = no winners by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 2

      Thanks for that link. I had not read that. Of course I understand that out of many audits of personal situations, there must be more than zero individuals who have won against the IRS, so I did not mean that individuals have not won against the IRS. But I was under the mistaken impression that the IRS always won again large groups and institutions. I can't find the link from the Union-Tribune (San Diego) that I read. I think it was about two years ago. But considering that your link is from 2009, that 2010-2011 SD-UT article was definitely wrong. Thanks for correcting my misimpression!

    3. Re:IRS+scientology / fighting the IRS = no winners by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      Thank YOU for your intellectual integrity, something which seems sadly lacking in many of these discussions.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  4. All meaningless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Fourth Amendment? Is that worth the paper it's written on? The reality, sad to say, is that all our so-called rights are meaningless. Nothing has changed in the last 5,600 years, except that with a little experience I'm now more aware that nothing has changed. It's all just words for academics to fawn over. The reality is that might makes right, which is to say that those who have the might can do whatever they want. This is true on the large scale, such as the federal government, down to the small scale, such as an individual police officer. And includes both public officials and private people with adequate resources. You'd be wise, frankly, to steer clear of the "Joffreys" of the world. In truth, the only solution is to have a limited government, which is great in theory and has been tried, but the weak point is that it has to be implemented by people and people will not adhere to restrictions.

  5. Re:New IRS under Obamacare by Technician · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They are getting a head start on Obamacare where your medical care and finances are all part of the Government. Get used to it as the new norm if you use healthcare in the US.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  6. wtf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    at what point is this type of negligence criminal? those guys should all be in a federal prison, not a federal agency

    1. Re:wtf by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      As a practical matter, it's criminal when a court says it is. Meanwhile we've just got another story on the internet.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  7. Propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "when agents executed a search warrant for financial data on one employee –"

    A search warrant requires judicial approval. This looks like a company that is taking advantage of the current IRS "scandal" to defend itself against a wholly unrelated investigation. It worked.

    1. Re:Propaganda by cold+fjord · · Score: 5, Informative

      They had a search warrant for financial data regarding one former employee, and they took tens of millions of medical records too, which they weren't entitled to.

      Warrant said they could take A, they took A and B.....ZZZZZZZZ. Everything from B on was unrelated information to the investigation proper, and not covered by the warrant. They stepped over the line, despite being warned. How is this confusing to you?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    2. Re:Propaganda by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      He can't understand why you don't trust the government. After all, they just want to help keep us all safe. That nasty old Constitution just keeps getting in the way of them doing their job.

    3. Re:Propaganda by vux984 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They had a search warrant for financial data regarding one former employee, and they took tens of millions of medical records too, which they weren't entitled to.

      So they took a hard drive that contained that employees information along with some other database and didn't remove and leave behind the ceramic platter that contained the other database?

      . They stepped over the line, despite being warned. How is this confusing to you?

      The question is really what did they actually take? Did they haul out all the filing cabinets on 2 floors full of printed records? Or did they take a single file server that contained what they were looking for, and which also had some other stuff on it too.

    4. Re:Propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, see, what's supposed to happen, is whenever the gubmint has a warrant to search for electronic records X, Y and Z, the persons executing the warrant are supposed to bring their paring knife and scrape off the 1's and 0's that specifically relate to the warrant in question. They never, ever take entire HDDs, PCs or servers. Even when looking for kiddy porn, they're just, like, "where's Bob with that damn paring knife?"

    5. Re:Propaganda by berzerke · · Score: 2

      ...they took tens of millions of medical records too, which they weren't entitled to...

      Actually, from RTFA, it appears they were entitled to them. From the article:

      ...defendants [IRS thugs] threatened to ‘rip’ the servers containing the medical data out of the building if IT personnel would not voluntarily hand them over,” the complaint states...

      By giving them the servers, the IT personnel effectively waived the fourth amendment protection. As painful as it might have been to watch, the IT personnel should have said "NO! I do not consent to you taking the servers." rather than hand them over. If the IRS thugs then did rip them out, now you have a fourth amendment violation.

      It's the same thing if a cop tells you to empty your pockets/purse/backpack etc on the hood of a car. The proper response is "I don't consent to searches." and do nothing. The cop may do it anyway, and you shouldn't resist if they do, but now you have an illegal search, which puts you in a better positon in court.

    6. Re:Propaganda by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      If you think saying, "I don't consent to this search," makes the search illegal, I've got some prime ocean-front property back in Phoenix that you might be interested in...

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    7. Re:Propaganda by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      Search warrants state in writing exactly what they are allowed to search and seize. Medical records were not in the scope of the search warrant, thus they had no right to go anywhere near it. It doesn't matter if they were there for a legitimate reason; they broke some serious laws if this event is true.

    8. Re:Propaganda by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      If the police don't have probable cause for criminal activity, refusing to consent to the search makes it illegal.

      Sure, they can make up probable cause. Sure, the police sometimes get away with illegal searches. Sure, it doesn't always work. But just because they get away with it doesn't mean it's legal, and there's no reason to consent to being the victim of criminal activity.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    9. Re:Propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He is correct in spirit - the police will use all kinds of verbal tricks (including outright lies) etc to get you to agree (consent) to a search, thus completely removing any possible legal recourse you may have regarding illegal search. It doesnt matter if you agreed under false pretenses.

    10. Re:Propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may not, but if it were illegal for the cop to check your purse, dumping it out for him will make the search legal.

  8. Not that it will happen. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They seized 60 million records of 10 million people because of 1 possible tax cheat? Nice.

    To paraphrase a wise man recently, "I don't want to see who's getting slapped on the wrist. I want to see who's going to jail."

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Not that it will happen. by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      They seized 60 million records of 10 million people because of 1 possible tax cheat?

      Maybe they confiscated the disk drive.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:Not that it will happen. by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      Substitute storage array and you might be right. From what I've read, it almost certainly wasn't a trivial amount of data as it included treatment plans, history, etc.. Since it was for a former employee, you have to wonder why they couldn't either just ask for a report to be printed, or something else. It is very hard to believe that this isn't a massive over-reach.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    3. Re:Not that it will happen. by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      They usually take the whole server and not one fuck is given. 'cos they're the gubmint.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re:Not that it will happen. by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      They're lucky they didn't take the entire data center and auction it off after they were done with it. Keep fucking with them and see what happens next.

    5. Re:Not that it will happen. by Black+Parrot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Substitute storage array and you might be right. From what I've read, it almost certainly wasn't a trivial amount of data as it included treatment plans, history, etc.. Since it was for a former employee, you have to wonder why they couldn't either just ask for a report to be printed, or something else. It is very hard to believe that this isn't a massive over-reach.

      I don't know about that. Right now all we have is the plaintiff's word for it that proper protocols weren't followed. They admit there was a warrant.

      Let's get some facts before we jump to conclusions. If we have a story everytime someone cries foul, there won't be enough bandwidth for anything else.

      Now if someone gets convicted, or slapped with a zillion dollar fine, then we'll have a story.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    6. Re:Not that it will happen. by Hatta · · Score: 2

      Now if someone gets convicted, or slapped with a zillion dollar fine, then we'll have a story.

      And if the government is too corrupt to jail its own, that's not a story?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  9. Scandalous! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let us know when you have the other side of the story.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Scandalous! by sabri · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let us know when you have the other side of the story.

      I can tell you the other side of the story right now:

      Investigative Media: IRS, could you please give is your side if the story?
      IRS: No, we do not comment on pending legislation

      --- Jury gives verdict ---

      Investigative Media: IRS, could you please give is your side if the story?
      IRS: No, we do not comment while we appeal

      --- Supreme Court gives verdict ---

      Investigative Media: IRS, could you please give is your side if the story?
      IRS: No, we do not comment on matters that have been dealt with by the courts, we look at the future now.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    2. Re:Scandalous! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Court records are public. In theory, you should be able to get the story there.

    3. Re:Scandalous! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Court records are public. In theory, you should be able to get the story there.

      Yes, the court records will hold a public record of IRS' unwillingness to provide any facts, and the government's willingness to support this.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I was expecting the CDC to pull this stunt, but the IRS?

    They're just getting a head start on Obamacare - which they will be administering.

    Ten million people's medical records? They now have a mandate to have EVERYBODY's.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Microlith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They now have a mandate to have EVERYBODY's.

      Really now? Where in the legislation does it say that the IRS has the right to access health records?

    2. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you read it, you would know.

    3. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're just getting a head start on Obamacare - which they will be administering.

      Would that be like the IRS targeting conservative, jewish and non-supporting AGW groups. I'm sure it was all fine, nothing like, to ensure that the "right message" is being presented by stifling dissenting views. Or seizing AP phone records, or going after commentators that are critical of Obama and Obamacare?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you weren't making it up, you could link to the exact part of the law.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    5. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what's worse is that this will fail because they can not assert the 4th amendment for other people

    6. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by cold+fjord · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The IRS is the one that is charged with ensuring that everyone has insurance, not with keeping and maintaining medical records.

      Lets use the ever popular car analogy. The Department of Motor Vehicles checks to make sure that you have car insurance. The Department of Motor Vehicles doesn't keep copies of the maintenance records, oil changes, refueling, car washes, and tune-ups. The IRS is like the DMV - they will check to make sure that you have insurance, they shouldn't have your health records. This is over the line.

      I would hope your wouldn't actually want that. The most charitable thing you can say at the moment is that they apparently have more power than they can manage is a responsible way, let along legal way.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    7. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by techno-vampire · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The most charitable thing you can say at the moment is that they apparently have more power than they can manage is a responsible way, let along legal way.

      It may be more accurate to say that certain IRS agents think they have far more power than they actually do and have let their mistake go to their heads.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    8. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by adrn01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I believe part of the law states that insurance companies must spend a minimum of 80% of premiums on actual health care.
        How would the IRS, or whatever body is supposed to police that part of the law, verify what is ACTUALLY being spent on that, versus what the insurance companies are CLAIMING they spend?
        If seizing medical records en-masse was their solution, perhaps a better method might be needed. Still, that might be what is going on here.

    9. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only a mistake if those involved, including their managers responsible for the inappropriate training, go to prison. Anything less shows they do in fact have the power.

    10. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by hedwards · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This isn't necessarily over the line.

      The article doesn't state it, but it looks like they probably imaged the entire HDD, which is normal, and that resulted in them having copies of all those medical records. And because the records themselves were not properly stored the IRS now has access to them.

      Sounds to me more like the firm is concerned with covering their own asses for not having properly secured the data in the first place. Laptops have a tendency to be stolen or otherwise walk off, and if they lost the records that easily, I'd want to change insurers.

    11. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by hedwards · · Score: 2

      You make it sound like the IRS violated some law, they were issued a warrant that allowed them to image the drive on that computer, and there happened to be medical records on there. Just because there are medical records on the machine does not mean that the IRS has no right to the other data on there, but because they imaged the drive they got all of it.

      What you're suggesting is tantamount to the police searching a house for allegedly doing cockfights in the basement and being required to ignore anything else they see while on the premises.

    12. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you read it, you would know.

      Nancy said we had to "pass it to find out what was in it". When you are a jillionaire insider trader, like her, you don't care what it says. You can buy your own hospital if you don't like ObamaCare.

      That's because the House and Senate were each debating and amending the bill(s) simultaneously, IIRC. This was done on both sides to speed up the process I guess. If either one or both passed it would go to the other side and a joint committee work out something both sides agree to, and since it was so big, there was a lot of room for differences between what they pass and what the committee pooped out. I'm pretty sure that's what she meant.

    13. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Microlith · · Score: 2

      Ok, so no one can say. Good to see that posting unsubstantiated, politically biased bullshit is now a staple of Slashdot comments.

    14. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Microlith · · Score: 2, Funny

      Still, that might be what is going on here.

      Yeah, and Ancient Aliens might not be entirely fabricated.

    15. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by camg188 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Really now?...

      Where in the legislation does it say they could seize the 60 million records they are accused of taking, "despite knowing that these medical records were not within the scope of the warrant?"
      Where in the legislation does it say they can target specific political affiliations to deny/delay tax exempt status or use special scrutiny as a bullying tactic?

      If these aren't bright enough red flags for you:
      The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

      Sec. 1502-IN GENERAL.-Part III of subchapter A of chapter 61 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by inserting after subpart c the following new subpart:
      SEC. 6055. REPORTING OF HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE
      (b) FORM AND MANNER OF RETURN
      (1)
      (B)
      (iv) such other information as the Secretary may require

      Where 'Secretary' refers to the Secretary of the Treasury. This section describes what is to be reported to the IRS. Sections (i) through (iii) specify name, address, tax id number and policy information. Section (iv) is completely open ended.

    16. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anarchduke · · Score: 2

      If only someone in Congress had tried to submit a law shielding the media from that sort of information seizure. Oh, right. Never mind, the Free Flow of Information Act was of course filibustered by Republicans in the Senate in 2008 with strong opposition by George Bush and died a nasty death. Because of course the Republicans wanted the executive branch to have this very ability.

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    17. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by cold+fjord · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This wasn't a laptop, this was servers. Probably a pretty substantial setup too. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a cluster of big RISC boxes with a substantial SAN. Where you are thinking, "HDD," think disk storage array, a big one.

      Sounds to me more like the firm is concerned with covering their own asses for not having properly secured the data in the first place.

      It is clearly indicated the agents went outside what was in the warrant, were warned about it, and took the data anyway - just to get some financial data on one former employee. I would normally expect you to be outraged about this sort of thing, violated warrant, government overreach and all.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    18. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You missed the joke. Last I've read, IRS regulations are added at a rate greater than a human can read. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, even when the law is unknowable. So go read the the laws and let us know which one causes the problem. By the time you finish reading it, you'll be dead, and have violated many of them before you managed to read them (or interpreted them differently than some random judge)

    19. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition to being mandated with enforcing the individual mandate, it has been allocated with ZERO dollars to enforce this mandate which has not gone in to effect yet, so blaming this on Obamacare is ridiculous. It is made up. It is a lie.

    20. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by jhoegl · · Score: 2

      Like they do now... which is wait for someone to come forth and complain.
      Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you people?

    21. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      welcome to slashdot trollie.

    22. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by pecosdave · · Score: 0

      But we have to pass it to find out what's in it!

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    23. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by khallow · · Score: 1

      If seizing medical records en-masse was their solution, perhaps a better method might be needed

      Such as reversal of the law that generates a "need" for the IRS to do that. I see no reason for the US federal government to be involved in health care at all. Keep in mind that US states already have sufficient authority to institute state-wide health care systems of fairly arbitrary scope (such as the Massachusetts version of Obamacare) while the federal level had significant constitutional obstructions against making such policy.

    24. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by gadget+junkie · · Score: 1

      I believe part of the law states that insurance companies must spend a minimum of 80% of premiums on actual health care. How would the IRS, or whatever body is supposed to police that part of the law, verify what is ACTUALLY being spent on that, versus what the insurance companies are CLAIMING they spend? If seizing medical records en-masse was their solution, perhaps a better method might be needed. Still, that might be what is going on here.

      as far as I recall, each state has an Insurance Commission. It's their job. the IRS should check with THEM if that's the question, or sue the state. in any case, if the IRS is remotely similar to the Italian tax authorities, it all boils down to classification of expenses, as in "since demographic pencil can be used to write, they are not medical expenditure", which can safely be done without seeing medical records.
      now the issue is, how do we avoid a "microsoft explorer", in which everybody and his uncle "salts" his financial dealings with his medical records to avoid being subpoenaed.....

      --
      "If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
    25. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by JosKarith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You'll probably find that just knowing some of those laws violates another law...

      --
      'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
    26. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by KGIII · · Score: 0

      I am not one of those people, I don't think, but how do you know this to be true? Additionally, wouldn't you like them to be proactive in fraud prevention? Personally, I support single payer health care and I say this as a classic libertarian though I'm registered as an Independent. (Reality concerning those of that political persuasion doesn't actually match the assumptions made by those who haven't made the effort to understand it but that's not really a part of this discussion.)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    27. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not informative. This is speculation.

    28. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That law already exists and is on the books, its called the 4th amendment

    29. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you're suggesting is tantamount to the police searching a house for allegedly doing cockfights in the basement and being required to ignore anything else they see while on the premises.

      That's pretty much how warrants work. A warrant to search the basement doesn't let you rip up the attic and then use the kilo of MJ found in a crawlspace.

    30. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by usuallylost · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you weren't making it up, you could link to the exact part of the law.

      That is an unreasonably high standard. I think murder is illegal but I can't link the "exact part of the law". Actually having tried to read the law on a few matters, without a law degree I doubt you can even identify what the "exact part" is. In part because laws are written in extremely technical language and in part because most laws, at least the ones I have looked at, are basically a bit of new verbiage with some statements like "change code section whatever to read X". Most non-lawyers are totally dependent upon lawyers to tell us what the law really is. Another reason it is often difficult to find a piece of the law is congress has become prone to writing laws that instead of saying specifics will actually say Agency X will regulate Y to achieve Z. So the details you are looking for aren't in the law at all they are contained in administrative regulation that may or may not have been written yet.

      In this case I do not know whether they will get access to our medical records. What has been widely reported in the media is that you will have to prove compliance with the affordable care act. The IRS has been charged with enforcement and will be collecting "enforcement related data". Which will likely be at least medically related. It isn't clear to me just how far that goes. If I was a betting man I'd say that the IRS has not determined what will be collected yet. Whatever they are collecting there is going to be a lot of it because they have requested 16,000 additional workers specifically for this purpose.

    31. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      If you weren't making it up, you could link to the exact part of the law.

      That is an unreasonably high standard. I think murder is illegal but I can't link the "exact part of the law".

      I can. It wasn't hard - it took no more than a glance at Wikipedia.

      Calling it an unreasonably high standard is rather bizarre. This is how the conversation went:
      "The new legislation says this."
      "Where in the legislation does it say that?"
      "If you read it, then you would know."
      "If you weren't making it up, you could link to the exact part of the law."
      "That is an unreasonably high standard."

      If you were the AC from the 3rd quote then I'd find your assertion a baffling self-contradiction, but it's most likely that you simply didn't bother to look at the context of the post you replied to.

    32. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually police are required to ignore other things in the house, unless it is a current crime.
      For instance, if in the search for illegal cock fighting evidence, right next to the cages they find marijuana plants, then yes, that is crime. However, if in the course of the search, they see evidence of another, unrelated crime, such as counterfeit money, they must ignore it. Unless they can prove that the crimes are related, the evidence will be thrown out of court unless you have a complete dunce of a lawyer.

    33. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically speaking they should have to ignore everything else beyond the limits of the warrant that they received (you know, that pesky part of the fourth that says "and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."). As written I believe the amendment intended to limit fishing expeditions using one warrant (possibly for a minor infraction) to search a persons entire life for further prosecutable offenses. For better or worse though these days police use "blanket warrants" which say they can search and seize anything even if wholly unrelated to the crime for which the warrant was issued. This is all well and good when your using it against mob bosses and murders but sadly "mission creep" always comes into play, making it likely that if things keep going the way they are failure to pay a parking ticket may result in your home being turned inside out if you come into the field of view of an overzealous detective.

    34. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      You missed the joke. Last I've read, IRS regulations are added at a rate greater than a human can read. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, even when the law is unknowable.

      Maybe you were thinking about Federal regulations, not IRS. The total of the tax code and regulations appears to be readable over a period of months even if it would be immensely tedious and a challenge to sanity.

      CCH's printed copy of the rules and regs, covering six volumes, is listed at 13,880 pages. So the code and regulations combined is fewer than 20,000 pages. (By extrapolation, if you downloaded both and printed them with Word, as the TAS did, it would run to about 40,000 pages, still half of what Hinckley says.) --- Our tax code is . . . 80,000 pages [Note: The title is not statement of fact.]

      --------

      By the time you finish reading it, you'll be dead, and have violated many of them before you managed to read them (or interpreted them differently than some random judge)

      I think you've made an interesting admission against interest here. If the tax code is so enormous and complicated that it is effectively unenforceable in a fair manner, doesn't that demonstrate that it really needs to be greatly reduced and simplified so that mere mortals can grapple with it?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    35. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 1

      That doesn't mean the IRS has the authority to storm in on an unrelated search warrant and demand the information or summarily shut the healthcare facility down.

      "We have can access to this information" is not the same as "we have a right to take it at any time we want in any manner we choose at any time we chose".

      --
      The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
    36. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 0

      This was done on both sides to speed up the process I guess. If either one or both passed it would go to the other side and a joint committee work out something both sides agree to, and since it was so big, there was a lot of room for differences between what they pass and what the committee pooped out. I'm pretty sure that's what she meant.

      So, what was the good reason that they voted on a bill that NOONE (including the authors) had actually read?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    37. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by AuMatar · · Score: 2

      When you make an extraordinary claim, you need to be able to back it up. Someone claimed that the Affordable Care Act gave the IRS full access to our medical records. He was asked for proof. They replied "if you read it you'd know". That reply means one of two things- they read it already and know where it states this, or they've never read it and are trying to get out from under the burden of proof. I asked where it was in order to figure out which it was. Based on the lack of response, its the second.

      Also, you don't seem to know this, but there's a legal document (its even online) called the US Code. Its the sum of all laws from the federal government. All of those "change section X to read Y" parts are talking about section X of this code. Its constantly updated to be current with laws passed by Congress- there may be a delay of a few weeks/months, but the ACA is long since added. So if the law actually says it, its in there. You don't need to worry about what's amending what, just point to the section in the US Code.

      As for regulations by federal agencies- those are also all published. However, they don't matter here- no federal agency has the authority to order you to hand over your medical records to the IRS, that would require an act of Congress. So once again, it would be in US Code.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    38. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3765115&cid=43771031

      HTH HAND.

    39. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      The IRS has been charged with enforcement and will be collecting "enforcement related data". Which will likely be at least medically related.

      The IRS will be looking for proof of insurance - do you have an insurance policy in force, not records of tonsil removal or treatment plans for colon polyps.

      When you go to the DMV for a license, do you submit gas receipts and oil change records? No. You show proof of insurance - a card from your insurer to show that you have insurance. Same here.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    40. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then what the hell are smog checks for?

    41. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So knowing the law is against the law but being in violation is also? "We the people" are SO screwed.

    42. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if the IRS loses the data are they responsible? Probably not, it will fall on all the individual health insurance organizations. I think this lawsuit is in good taste (if there ever were such a litigation).

    43. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by superdave80 · · Score: 0

      This was done on both sides to speed up the process I guess.

      Oh, well as long as there was a good reason for Pelosi to not bother reading the legislation before passing it. I'd hate to think that congress might actually take their time while passing important legislation.

    44. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      However, it's not quite that simple. Because of the ACA, there are specific things that a person's insurance must cover to be considered valid insurance. Thus the IRS will need to know not just if you bought insurance, but where you bought it, what it covers, and how much you pay for it - because all of that will affect whether or not you're "covered" per ACA rules.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    45. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not that hard. CTRL+F for 6055, as you quoted, then look down the hierarchy of sections.

    46. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's what she meant. But I'm curious, if she had an "R" after her name if you would have been so accepting of her explanation.

      I'm convinced this is one of the most harmful aspects with American politics. People look for evil conspiracies in the opposing party and are excessively forgiving with their own. It doesn't matter how egregious the actions are, they'll find a good reason to rationalize it away.

    47. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by kermidge · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but from the start, police of any stripe tend to take whatever they can grab. Too many prosecutors and judges cover for them. This case might exemplify an egregious event, but it's not unusual. Of course, I've also seen cases where LEO ignores easy evidence they don't want to deal with or have to explain, especially if it might interfere with an easy conviction. Promotion and election to office is via good numbers, not good enforcement or good practice at law.

    48. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      That states that the IRS may require you to prove you have insurance. A letter from your insurance agency with a policy number or insurance card does that. It does not require or imply that the IRS has access to your medical records. Most likely it will just be a line on the 1040- do you have insurance, check yes or no. If yes, provide ID number and provider. If no, add $X to line Y.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    49. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Do you mean this FFIA?

      http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Obama-s-shield-law-reversal-disappointing-844066.php

      The one the White House opposed in 2009?

    50. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. She said that on March 9. Scott Brown had won the Massachusetts special election, meaning that the Senate bill was (largely) frozen in the form Ted Kennedy had voted for. To the extent that he statement had meaning, it referred to the fact that administrative regulations (as opposed to congressionally passed law) would actually determine the final form the program would take.

    51. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by niteshifter · · Score: 1

      ....

      What you're suggesting is tantamount to the police searching a house for allegedly doing cockfights in the basement and being required to ignore anything else they see while on the premises.

      And I've good news for you, sunshine: That's precisely how the doctrine known as Search Incident to Lawful Arrest, aka SILA works. In searches not attached to a potential arrest restrictions still apply. Let's work with your example, cockfighting. A felony in most states. Along the way to the basement the Officer Intrepid spots a roach in an ashtray. Since this ain't Texas, that roach is a misdemeanor offense. Also not covered by the warrant looking for cockfighting evidence. Yes, it will be ignored - for now. They'll be getting busy obtaining another warrant for illicit drugs. Use that time wisely ;)

    52. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1
      Well, I may have been thinking about "regulations" in general. more than 10 times the actual law is the secret private law. "Must comply with NECA regulations" doesn't sound like an unreasonable law at first, until you realize that NECA recognizes its monopoly stance and restricts access to the "law", charges for it, and changes it regularly. The same with IRS regulations. They have force of law, but do not pass the same legal process.

      If they just passed a law that all rules or otherwise with force of law must be read aloud in Congress before they take effect, then that would limit the number of bad laws, and laws in general.

      I think you've made an interesting admission against interest here.

      You are incorrectly guessing my "interest". Why? Why make incorrect assumptions about my "interests", when you could just ask, rather that guessing wrong (lying) and making up straw men to prove someone else wrong? I've never said anything that indicates I think the tax code (or laws in general) shouldn't be simple. Since you seem to have proof otherwise, I'd like you to present it. Otherwise, I'll dismiss you as an internet arguer who makes up shit to prove strangers wrong who have no care what you think or why.

    53. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That just means that instead of simply being a poorly designed law it's a poorly designed law written and passed in haste. Doesn't help much.

    54. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      They didnt abolish HIPPA, there are already laws to prevent what you are suggesting.

    55. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Do you really think that will stop them, say when the opposite political party is in power? I don't have as much faith.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    56. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) gives the IRS enforcement authority and access to everyone's healthcare information.
      Wonderful huh? Brave New World!

    57. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by highphilosopher · · Score: 1

      http://insurance.mo.gov/

      Insurance is regulated at the state level not the federal level. why is it every time someone hears of some fiscal regulation they assume it's the IRS? the IRS jurisdiction is taxation only.

    58. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Have you ever actually LIVED in a country where they have single payer, or just read about it?

      It works great, as long as you don't get sick, or grow old. Ask somebody in their sixties, or seventies with health problems, not a twenty year old.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    59. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Lived? No. Made use of? Yes. I was injured in a vehicle accident in the UK. They did a great job.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    60. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's the link: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6055

    61. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by company+suckup · · Score: 0

      It's called HIPAA. The so-called medical privacy act only ensures common citizens have no access to one's medical records. But HIPAA also gives government greater access to comb through anything its little hearts desire. Thanks for nothing Ted Kennedy.

    62. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by alexo · · Score: 1

      The most charitable thing you can say at the moment is that they apparently have more power than they can manage is a responsible way, let along legal way.

      It may be more accurate to say that certain IRS agents think they have far more power than they actually do and have let their mistake go to their heads.

      I believe recent events, including this one, show that they actually have all the power that they think they do.

      and have let their mistake go to their heads.

      As long as there's no chance of said heads rolling, that was not a mistake.

    63. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by The+Iso · · Score: 1

      Actually, ignorance of the law is a valid defence for U.S. federal tax crimes, a rare exception to this principle. In Cheek v. United States, a tax protester had his conviction overturned because the jury had been instructed that a belief that one is not breaking the law only negates willfulness if that belief is reasonable. Of course, he owed his taxes with penalties whether he was convicted or not, and he was convicted anyway upon retrial.

      --
      "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." - Bob Dylan
    64. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by instarx · · Score: 1

      You completely misinterpret this section of the law. This section requires health care providers (companies) to provide information on the TYPE of coverage they provide when the plan they provide is the absolute minimum one. Section 6055 does NOT state that only name, address, TIN, and "policy information". That is your own incorrect interpretation as well. Section 6055 is not a section that deals with medical records on individuals at all, but in fact just requires companies that provide plans to provide information on those plans to the government.

      If you don't believe me, look at the law.

      http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ148/html/PLAW-111publ148.htm

      Just search for "6055" on the page and read it yourself. Whenever I see chopped up references cut and pasted I get suspicious that some important points have been left out to suit the writer's own agenda. In this case the suspicion was justified.

    65. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      Then vote wisely.
      However I do find it funny the amount of paranoia involving government is greater than that of corporations... makes no sense since corporations have more power than the government right now, especially in hiring.

    66. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      You must be the exception, or an OFA troll. To claim that the N.I.H. in the UK does a "great job" is a fantasy of astounding proportions.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    67. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I can't say other than those whom I've spoken with have all pretty much agreed and my own experiences were those listed above. I dare say, increase funding if it is a problem. We're the "best" nation on the planet. Health care shouldn't be an issue.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    68. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      I suggest the people reading this outlandish exchange... take some time and read the British press websites. Do it for a few years. Read the left and right wing papers. Then go back and consider the statement that their healthcare system does a, and I quote "great job"

      Given that his solution is to increase funding (raise taxes) we certainly know where is coming from. No matter what the problem, throw more money at it, that always increases efficiency in government programs.

      No worries for me. In Obama's Amerika I'll be denied health care because I am not a converted progressive troll. Hey, the IRS is doing it. The DHS is doing it. The EPA is doing it. Do you think that ObamaCare will be any different? Fortunately I have sufficient funds to pay for my own health care. The rest of you will get what you voted for so no whining!

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    69. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Obama's health care, the ACA, is absurd and idiotic. That's a given.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    70. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      We have alignment here my new friend.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    71. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by rujholla · · Score: 1

      It does go a little deeper than that. Not only do they need proof of insurance they need to know the relative value of the policy so they can tax you accordingly.

    72. Re:They're just getting a head start on Obamacare. by rujholla · · Score: 1

      Actually it was done because they were about to lose the 60th vote in the Senate and so had to cram it through before they lost the ability to go against the will of the people and pass it.

  11. Why is everybody so upset? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    I mean, it's not like there will be any kind of upset in the elections. So ,take a pill, and enjoy the results of your vote...

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  12. 2 years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it took them 2 years to decide to sue? What the hell ever happened to taking prompt action? This should have been in the news immediately, not 2 years later. Better yet, they should have simply refused the IRS.

  13. Why didn't the company encrypt the medical data? by Bruce66423 · · Score: 2

    It appears that the IRS had a legitimate search warrant. if the data had been appropriately encrypted, it would be impossible tor the IRS to get access to it without help. If they were shown to have got that help, then they would have been clearly in violation. As it is, the company is at least as much to blame, surely?

  14. Re: IRS+scientology / fighting the IRS = no winner by lightknight · · Score: 1

    Bob, we don't target people for tax audits and third-degree checks on the singular basis of the words with which they choose to identify their group. To argue otherwise is to open the door to some of the greatest evils in mankind's history.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  15. What did you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When everyone kept their mouths shut when the Warrantless Wiretapping was approved, did you expect it to stop there? Benjamin Franklin's quote about temporary safety fell upon deaf ears in the U.S. We are now the police state plutocracy we've always wanted. Good luck getting your privacy back.

    1. Re:What did you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen brother

    2. Re:What did you expect? by KingGypsy · · Score: 1

      On this, I agree. For all those of you who thought giving Dick Cheney carte blanche after 9-11 would make us safer.... I hope you are happy...... And Homeland Security might bankrupt us, but hey we'll be broke but safe, right????

  16. End the IRS by Alex+Vulpes · · Score: 4, Insightful
    We should abolish the IRS entirely. Just kill the dang thing.

    (Sorry if that sounds like a shameless political plug, but I'm starting to think that's what really needs to happen.)

    1. Re:End the IRS by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      I agree, name another government entity that the vast majority of citizens are frightened of because you are forced to deal with them anywhere from quarterly to yearly, and if you make a single mistake they will come in and chew your ass up and spit you out with everything you own stripped from your hands.

    2. Re:End the IRS by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Tax collectors have always been hated and feared.

      Goes with the territory. For all recorded history.

      --------

      The deil cam fiddlin' thro' the town,
      And danc'd awa wi' th' Exciseman,
      And ilka wife cries, "Auld Mahoun,
      I wish you luck o' the prize, man."
      Chorus-The deil's awa, the deil's awa,
      The deil's awa wi' the Exciseman,
      He's danc'd awa, he's danc'd awa,
      He's danc'd awa wi' the Exciseman.

      We'll mak our maut, and we'll brew our drink,
      We'll laugh, sing, and rejoice, man,
      And mony braw thanks to the meikle black deil,
      That danc'd awa wi' th' Exciseman.
      The deil's awa, &c.

      There's threesome reels, there's foursome reels,
      There's hornpipes and strathspeys, man,
      But the ae best dance ere came to the land
      Was-the deil's awa wi' the Exciseman.

      - Robert Burns

    3. Re:End the IRS by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm not scared of the IRS and I'm pretty sure, FWIW, that if I did make a single mistake on a tax return they would (a) be unlikely to notice, and (b) if they did notice they'd refund me the difference (or if the error means I owe more taxes, require I pay the difference, with interest. Either way, I end up paying what I should have done to begin with.)

      I seriously doubt that the number of people terrified of the IRS is particularly large. I know there are a lot of irresponsible tax evaders who want all the benefits of civilization with none of the duties it entails who hate the IRS, but that's rather different.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, but they made a critical mistake.

      They broke the law, with mandatory 10 year prison sentences for each violation, and 250k fines per violation.

      Guess what that means, in one single event, they bankrupted the entire United States Government.

      What a bunch of fucking retards. Can you say everybody employed by the IRS just got shitcanned?

      And if the Government doesn't prosecute, then the law falls off the books as not being prosecutable anymore when they don't prosecute for 10 million violations.

      Whoops there it went.. either the IRS / Government is bankrupted, or the law is wiped from the books - fail fail fail

    5. Re:End the IRS by khallow · · Score: 1

      And if the Government doesn't prosecute, then the law falls off the books as not being prosecutable anymore when they don't prosecute for 10 million violations.

      You forgot the excluded middle. There are a variety of ways, legal and illegal, that the IRS can evade this even if your assertion is true. Merely claiming that they're a vital bureaucracy pursuing a vital national task may do the trick.

    6. Re:End the IRS by Common+Joe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't know whether to agree with you or disagree with you so I'll just tell a story that happened to me instead.

      I'm American, but my wife is not a U.S. citizen. We'd been living in the U.S. for years -- her with a green card paying her taxes every year on a business she ran in America. Uncle Sam loved us and we never had any problems. Circumstances changed and last year we decided to move to Germany -- her home country. In preparation, we called up the IRS and asked them what we needed to do. We went up multiple levels and finally got a guy who really did seem to be very knowledgeable (not something I say about others willy nilly)... except he couldn't tell us what we should do. Supposedly the IRS doesn't know what to do in our case.

      I explained that we'd filed jointly for years (she had a business of only herself) and we'd made our proper quarterly estimates and that we wanted to know how to pay our taxes and pay our estimates during the move. Should we file jointly? Separately? If she did work on one side of the Atlantic and then got paid when we were on the other side... little technicalities that we wanted to make sure we got right. He understood our situation but the IRS rules didn't have anything for us. Really? You mean the IRS handles multi-national corporations with hundreds of thousands of people and they don't know what to do in a situation with a single-person business that is moving from one side of the Atlantic to the other? We were too complicated? WTF?

      In the end, we hired a tax accountant in Germany, closed our eyes and hoped those guys knew what they were doing. My worst nightmare is the audit. With a business of one it would be very costly to defend ourselves if needed.

    7. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If your return is ANYTHING but wages from a single job in a state that you live in, its easy to fuck up and appear to be evading taxes. Maybe they'll fine you, maybe they'll jail you. BTW tax dodging is a felony, mandatory federal jail time, and usually a lot of it.

    8. Re:End the IRS by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 1

      There's a whole region of Italy that's still disliked because they were the tax collectors for the Vatican.. "better a dead man in the house than a Marchigiano outside".

      Marche is the region, and they haven't collected those taxes in a long time, but they still carry that reputation.

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    9. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, name another government entity that the vast majority of citizens are frightened of because you are forced to deal with them anywhere from quarterly to yearly, and if you make a single mistake they will come in and chew your ass up and spit you out with everything you own stripped from your hands.

      All of them. Which is mostly unreasonable fear created by their own paranoia, but justified enough to perpetuate the problem.

      Just take all the Red Light Camera hysteria.

    10. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      250k fines per violation. Guess what that means, in one single event, they bankrupted the entire United States Government.

      250k fines per violation paid to the US Government. So all the money goes into the HIPAA fines fund. Who gets to spend that money?

    11. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't going to tell you because no one there is going to go on record as having given you advice and thus incur potential liability if its found that you acted improperly by a future IRS action.

    12. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIW I'm a responsible tax avoider, because I don't think it's accurate to give the IRS credit for civilization's continued existence. I'll stop being scared once I actually understand all those tax laws, so... never. If you're NOT scared of something you can't understand (or meaningfully influence) controlling your life, then it's less a testament of bravery than one of submission.

      [fast-forwards every internet tax argument]
      Someone: Then just go to Somalia.
      Me: Somalia sucks, but not as much as it did with a government. Let's improve our home too.
      Someone: Just give up on your home and family, and move to Somalia already! I can tell you must love Somalia.

    13. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the end you finally did the right thing and hired an accountant. The IRS doesn't give tax advice and that's what you were asking for. There are probably dozens of legal ways to file your taxes (if not hundreds), but some would have you play lots more money. The IRS doesn't pay people to tell you the best way. You need to pay an accountant for that if you can't figure it out yourself. What do you think corporations do? You don't seriously think they ask the IRS? They hire an accountant.

      As far as your nightmares, you shouldn't be having any. You did the right thing. You gave your accountants the true facts. You acted in good faith. If there's ever an issue, it will be handled smoothly and at worse you'll own some interest for underpaying.

      I don't know of anyone who acted in good faith having a problem with the IRS. I know of people who tried to cheat and got caught, but that's extremely rare. I know far more people who regularly cheat and haven't been caught. Every waitress I've ever known cheats for example. I've never heard of one getting caught.

    14. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me: Somalia sucks, but not as much as it did with a government. Let's improve our home too.

      Then go to fucking Somalia. You're answering your own questions.

      The rest of us will continue to reap the benefits of living in a democracy where we pay taxes to fund vital and useful public services.

    15. Re:End the IRS by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      It's easy to fuck up if you decide to try to do the entire thing yourself. If you go to a (cheap) tax preparer like H&R Block, you generally end up filing a tax return that's unlikely to be audited, and if it is is likely to be accurate as long as you answered the preparer's questions truthfully.

      And if you're about to tell me how terrible it is you might need a tax preparer's services, then consider the fact that before such companies existed it was common to hire a considerably more expensive accountant to do this kind of thing. The tax code is only superficially more complex than it was fifty years ago.

      Fine and jail you? Only if you've been dishonest, and continue to be dishonest throughout the audit.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    16. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Point ---------->
                You

      Do you realize you're defending a straw man?

    17. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not scared of the IRS

      Probably because you'll never engage in any behavior that's likely to have any impact on someone in power. Thankfully there are others in this country that care more about the rights of their fellow citizens then their own well-being.

    18. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thankfully there are others in this country that care more about the rights of their fellow citizens then their own well-being.

      I'm one of them. I pay happily pay taxes in support of civilization, remember?

    19. Re:End the IRS by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      FWIW, I've made a few minor mistakes on tax forms, and the IRS has written me a very business-like letter pointing out the discrepancy and asking me to either pay $X or submit an explanation. Once I was pretty sure I was right and they were wrong so I sent them an explanation. I got a return letter agreeing with me, and that I didn't owe anything extra.

      If you're honest with the IRS, you will almost certainly get perfectly proper treatment. You will also pay what you are found to owe. The IRS is very good at ensuring that. If you're trying to deceive them or cheat on your taxes, you're in trouble.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    20. Re:End the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. The OP was whining that someone would immediately respond he should move to Somalia. He came up with a lame reason why not. But the hypothetical someone is right: he should move to Somalia, based upon his own logic.

      If you want the benefits of living in a Democracy, pay your goddamn taxes. If you want to know what a country looks like that has no taxes, look at Somalia.

  17. Re:Why didn't the company encrypt the medical data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The data was handed over after the IRS threatened to rip the servers out. A move like that can seriously impact a business. The did what they felt they had to do and decided to let the courts sort it out.

  18. You voted for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Can't pretend you weren't warned. Enjoy.

    1. Re:You voted for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nevermind that this shit has been going on for decades on both sides of the political fence, only when it happens with obama do you care, go kill yourself, YOU are the probelm

  19. Re:Why didn't the company encrypt the medical data by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You clearly have no idea how such systems work. My guess is that the IRS served their warrant and then demanded read only ODBC/API access to the companies systems. The company's DBAs likely balked at the idea... I know I would... and said "listen, if you have that sort of access, you could violate Hipaa if you submit the wrong query. We're very stringent on what we allow to be run against our tables" But the IRS being the IRS said "Fuck you, we're the IRS" and went right ahead. Once you have a legit login and password the data is no longer encrypted for you.

    Knowing the ramifications of what the IRS were doing, the company likely logged their queries. The IRS's DBAs likely were worried the company in question could potentially get a court injunction to stop their access so their first query was likely "Select * from customers;" and dumped the entire table to a local table. Then company in question likely saw this, freaked out, but realized any lawsuit they filed would likely be quashed by "We have an ongoing investigation" yada yada... so they kept quiet about it until the original case was over.

    I'm just guessing but I've been in similar situations and the governments admins are pricks and usually don't have a clue what they are doing. Violating hipaa is VERY easy to do if you don't know what you're doing. So much so that many people don't even want to work in departments that have access to such information. Make a typo in your query and you're getting walked out the door.

  20. lotta money by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The suit seeks $25,000 in compensatory damages, per violation.

    * 10 million violations is 250 billion dollars? Holy fuck.

    The only company that I can think of that has that large of a database of health records would be either one of the government agencies... or Epic. Time to buy some stock.

    1. Re:lotta money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or any of the companies that have state contracts to manage their Medicaid programs.

      Companies like Centene Corporation in Saint Louis, and I do believe Kaiser Permanente has business in the field too.

    2. Re:lotta money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI - In case you were wondering...

      Criminal Penalties
      In June 2005, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) clarified who can be held criminally liable under HIPAA. Covered entities and specified individuals, as explained below, whom "knowingly" obtain or disclose individually identifiable health information in violation of the Administrative Simplification Regulations face a fine of up to $50,000, as well as imprisonment up to one year. Offenses committed under false pretenses allow penalties to be increased to a $100,000 fine, with up to five years in prison. Finally, offenses committed with the intent to sell, transfer, or use individually identifiable health information for commercial advantage, personal gain or malicious harm permit fines of $250,000, and imprisonment for up to ten years.

      So add that up... since it's the IRS, we can assume it was for malicious harm right there.. so 250k per violation, plus 10 years in prison - so 100 million years in prison - that's multiple lifetime prison sentences per IRS employee, and now we're actually up to 250 quadrillion dollars in fines and penalties... holy shit the IRS is FUCKED royally.

      This is criminal penalties, not civil. These are MANDATORY - ie - they cannot escape them - if they do escape them, then the Attorney General has committed 10 million criminal acts by not upholding the law - which makes him and his entire staff criminals in their own right.

  21. It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After all those years of the current anti-Obama crowd desperately defending the shamefully illegal shenanigans of GWB's administration, I just don't quite know how to react to seeing them implode over this Obama-related stuff.

    Why couldn't you get this angry at Bush Corp when it was doing similar or worse stuff? Why did you try so hard to dismiss any criticism of the unlawful (and almost always far worse) behavior of people such as GWB, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, et al?

    I'm not suggesting it is wrong for you to be critical of current events, because we should all be crying foul. But it would be nice if you objected when everyone does it, and not just when it's the other team.

    1. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why couldn't you get this angry at Bush Corp when it was doing similar or worse stuff

      Can you point the rest of the world to where Bush n' Co, were doing the same deal as Nixon. That's right you can't. Though Obama and Co were, and are. While attempting to claim that "it's someone below me, I know nothing." Perhaps it was Sgt. Shultz that is really in charge of the whitehouse...one can't be too sure.

    2. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll bite: How about the IRS actually has warrants, unlike the Bushies who just went ahead and did whatever they wanted sans warrant.

      And that's just the tip of the Bushie's iceberg of evil.

    3. Re: It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Redmancometh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some of us are angry over both. The patriot act started the slippery slope....obama greased the slide.

    4. Re: It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Redmancometh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obama administration I mean. Gwb gave them a strong start...but they are continuing all of this. As a rule of thumb under gwb illegal atrocitied were perpatrated....under obama they are nice n legal.

    5. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you point the rest of the world to where Bush n' Co, were doing the same deal as Nixon.

      How about you ask Valerie Plame, you asshat.

    6. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      start an independent curmudgeon party and see if things turn out any better. I'd put my money on the curmudgeons.

    7. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      The fake video created to discredit and destroy ACORN?

    8. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by nebular · · Score: 2

      A 3rd party will never work with the electoral college or a popular vote. either the 3rd party will fail and voters will turn their attention to one of the candidates who is closer to their ideals and vote for them, ending the 3rd party, or the 3rd party will become popular and one of the other parties will disappear as their voters flock to the 3rd party. A one vote system with a directly (or nearly directly) elected executive will always turn into a two horse race. Hell even in parliamentary systems where the prime minister is not directly elected but decided by MP numbers you usually have two dominant parties with the 3rd parties filling in the room. Proportional voting that give a person more than one vote to work with, or run-off voting will allow much more possibilities for a 3rd party to get any traction

      But then the two major parties wouldn't want that.

    9. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anarchduke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm not sure how this piece of crap got modded "Insightful" The 47% of people paying no taxes is complete crap. Its true that 47% of people don't pay one particular form of tax but most of them pay a bigger percentage of their income in taxes then Mitt Romney does.

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    10. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anarchduke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Let me google that for you.
      Nope, Richard Armitage was a long time Republican who, prior to being given a job by newly elected President Reagan was an aide to Republican Senator Bob Dole. In the interests of denying Republicans another chance to rewrite history, I had to contradict your - possibly unintentional - misinformation.

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    11. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fake video created to discredit and destroy ACORN?

      You mean the "real video" that was recorded showing them doing exactly what was said? Yep, ACORN was so dirty that even the whitehouse and liberal groups abandoned it...until they changed their name.

    12. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      BTW, Richard Armatage is a Clinton-ite.

      No, he wasn't. Who the fuck keeps modding this shit up? Jesus Christ, you people just keep getting dumber and dumber.

    13. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      Bush the same as Nixon? Don't even try to make that comparison.

      Nixon was a crook, yes. But he was also a smart, effective, and sometimes courageous politician. He was not afraid to spend a lot of the political capital he'd accumulated during his Red-baiting days by going to China and meeting Mao.

      That took balls, something which neither of the Bushies ever had in the first place.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    14. Re: It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Redmancometh · · Score: 1

      If I didn't have bad karma for saying the same thing and being voted down I'd +1 you.

    15. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      From The Wiki: "The California Attorney General granted immunity to O'Keefe and Giles in exchange for their raw videos shot at three California ACORN offices. Its comparison of the raw videos with the released versions found that the published videos had been heavily edited to misrepresent the workers and the situations so as to suggest criminal intent and activity"

    16. Re: It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      Bingo! This is more about IRS minions not respecting the OTHER zillion laws on the books that aren't about the IRS. HIPAA laws don't just go away because the monkey at the IRS just chucks the drive with 60 million records in his trash can... If those leak, this company will still get sued for that leak because a power-monkey at the IRS was maliciously ignorant of the laws regarding data he was collecting.

    17. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      How about the IRS actually has warrants

      NO THEY DID NOT. Not for what they seized.
      From TFA:

      "Despite knowing that these medical records were not within the scope of the warrant, defendants threatened to 'rip' the servers containing the medical data out of the building if IT personnel would not voluntarily hand them over," the complaint states, UPI reported.
      The suit also says IRS agents seized workers' phones and telephone data - more violations of the warrant, UPI reported.

      Please don't give me your bullshit about "Well, the Bushies were worse." Do you really want to set precedents like this, with the federal government all up in your business? Do you think that a Republican will never be elected as president again? What are you gonna do then, turn your two face and say, "This is not acceptable?" You are letting your partisanship blind you.
      This is not about Republican vs. Democrat.
      This is about the Federal Government vs. the People.

    18. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by gd2shoe · · Score: 0

      Wiki? That's your source?

      The California Attorney General? You mean the California that I live in, and is run by the left? Yeah, that sounds like a trustworthy source in this context. Totally believable.

      Now I'm not accusing the AG of covering for a political activist group against a politically motivated investigation. But I cannot believe that he didn't receive pressure from political allies to bury this. Thus, he cannot be a credible source, on his own.

      Yes, I just said that a politician can't be credible on a political matter. Big shock. And I'm not bashing Democrats. I'd say the same if it were the Republicans and one of their backers.

      --
      I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
    19. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After all those years of the current anti-Obama crowd desperately defending the shamefully illegal shenanigans of GWB's administration, I just don't quite know how to react to seeing them implode over this Obama-related stuff.

      What would really be nice is if people like you stopped thinking in this idiotic partisan way.

      I was anti-Bush; the guy was a crook and a liar. I voted for Obama hoping for the promised change. Turned out that Obama was just as much of a crook and liar as Bush.

      But it would be nice if you objected when everyone does it, and not just when it's the other team.

      Look in the mirror: that's where the problem is. People like you are the problem, because after the past decade, you still can't even get over thinking that politics is a two-team sport.

    20. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by gd2shoe · · Score: 1

      You're referring to Duverger's law.

      I haven't yet found a "proportional" system that I feel actually represents the voters. Which would you recommend, and why?

      And I agree, we really need to ditch first-past-the-post. ALMOST ANYTHING else would be better.

      --
      I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
    21. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nixon was a Crook? How so? You learned history from jumping to assumptions from watching a 5 second clip of a denial?
      Come on... take a guess... What was Watergate about? Hint. Had nothing to do with the President being a 'Crook'.

    22. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the middle class were expanding instead of shrinking, there would be more people paying taxes.

    23. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      47% do not pay income tax - period.
      Social security etc. are different matter and this is ear marked money for other purposes.

    24. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was very down on Bush for some things. Medicare Part D. TARP. Stimulus. Bailouts. Taking over all federal students loans and not allowing private lenders to participate.

      Then again, things Bush did NOT do that Obama may have done.... Use the IRS against his political opponents (at the least we know he knew about this before the election, yet sat on it because he didn't want anyone to know the truth). Vilify a US citizen on national TV, blame him for deaths in the middle east, and have him carted off to jail simply for exercising his first amendment rights (yes, I know he's still in jail for other reasons, but he was first taken to jail for making a video critical of Islam).

      So let me ask you, why are so many liberals defending Obama for these things? Even after the IRS admitted they were very wrong to do what they did, liberals all over the place are arguing that the IRS did nothing wrong.

    25. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Example? Because I've yet to hear allegations of warrantless spying on journalists during the Bush administration, nor of IRS targeting every organization connected to liberal politics. This seems like one of those many times people just say Bush did lots of evil stuff without him actually having done it. I'm sure you can find plenty of things he actually did to whine about, so why make stuff up?

    26. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

      Al Jazeera several months back had an interesting report on Obama supporters refusing to be critical of this administration. A reporter went into the streets and interviewed people, describing various policies as having occurred during Bush's term and assessing their feelings. Predictably they were harshly critical. When the guy informed them that not only was Obama engaging in these actions but the policies were instituted during his administration they did a total 180. Suddenly there was a good explanation for it all.

      During Bush's term there were many conservatives who took issue with Bush's policies and were openly critical. Sure, there were plenty of blind supporters, but you're always going to get that. The problem is that loyalty for this administration is as strong as anything I've ever seen. It's a serious problem when people have dismissed those critical of Obama as racist. Talk about straw men arguments.

    27. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      It's not just California, the GAO found nothing, the Congressional Research Service found nothing, the New York AG found nothing..

      Either they are all lying and ACORN was engaged in blatant, STUPID violations of the law, or a pair of activists edited a story to match what they wanted it to say. One of those makes a LOT more sense than the other.

    28. Re:It's SO WEIRD to read stuff like this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Riiiiiight. Sure.
      The fact that they quite possibly still pay state income tax, DO pay sales tax, gas taxes, utility taxes and fees, property tax if they are lucky enough to have property they own.........
      Well, but they don't pay income tax!

      Why are you not asking why 53% do? Why so high?
      It would be nice if the majority of Americans knew that until recent history, ~90% of Americans did not pay fed income tax at all. Seriously, look it up and educate yourself. The income tax was passed with the politicians saying right out that it was meant only for the rich. The import duty system was not working in a rising country starting to produce most of the goods needed, and the simple low cost goods that were still being imported were not bringing in enough money and were hitting the poor and middle class instead of the rich like intended. LIKE INTENDED. The rich were ALWAYS suppose to pay most of the taxes.

      Anyway, it is more than misleading to make the 47% claim.
      The worst part is that in the media the same people who complain, first say "50% of Americans don't pay taxes", both upping the percentage, and then obfuscating that the fact is that they don't pay federal income tax. (ignoring all other taxes that they DO pay).

      And then many, many times these same people have the gall to go on and say that we need cuts to SS and medicare. "We need these cuts because of debt."
      But wait, I thought "Social security etc. are different matter and this is ear marked money for other purposes."

      No, they are not different, not to the people with money that influence government. You see, the fact is that the government, has been 'raiding' SS for years by 'selling' US Gov bonds to it in exchange for the actual cash money held in SS, and they don't want to pay it back.
      The 'powers that be' transferred wealth from SS system so that executives of the companies that make bombs, and body bags and planes, and the connected (haliburton, etc) to move supplies, and private security companies could make out like bandits.

      We spent TRILLIONS on an unfunded war, as well as thousands of gallons of blood of the poor people (actual and figurative) who make up the armed forces, and now it is up to the POOR to pay for it. There were no income caps on the rich, there was no penalty for making more than a million a year, there were no war bonds, there was no increase in the top tax rates, there was no confiscation of assets to support the war effort like WW2. No, instead we REDUCED TAXES, mostly on the rich, and now we want to reduce benefits for the poor to pay for it all!

      At the same time medicare is highly efficient when it comes to overhead for medical care they are barred by LAW from negotiating prices for drugs, medical devices, etc.. This is a transfer of wealth from the poor, who DO pay that tax, to the rich, who pay a very small percentage/portion of that tax.

      The fact is that people who have millions in assets or more should be paying the majority of the income taxes.
      It is the US government and it's rule of law that even allows them to acquire and keep this kind of wealth.
      It is US government contracts that made quite a few of them wealthy (so, they are welfare mooches?).
      It is the US military that not only keeps the peace for trade, the US military has in the past actually mobilized and killed in the name of business.
      Hell, when my grandmother was a kid the US government was actually killing brown people for fucking bananas!
      Bananas for Christ sake!
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

  22. Re:Why didn't the company encrypt the medical data by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    Thanks for an enlightening reply. I guess I was assuming the data would be nicely segmented, but I guess these days it's all run together. Raises some interesting questions for lawyers and DBAs to get their teeth into.

  23. Why not jackboots? ATF is also under treasury. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

    When will the IRS start issuing jack boots to all agents?

    Why not jackboots? ATF and Secret Service are also part of Treasury.

    ATF has been the classic "jackbooted thugs" for most of their existence - ever since they got spun out of Internal Revenue in . They're "the revenuers" that enforced alcohol taxes with machine guns even before they and the FBI burned down a church camp in Waco over a $200 tax bill and shot a man's son and wife on Ruby Ridge over a $500 claim, inspiring the original NRA "Jackbooted Thugs" ad.

    Secret Service has a history of incarcerating people and holding them incommunicado if they think they might be possibly be a threat to a high government official. (I knew one '60s radical who BECAME a '60s radical, a nice Jewish girl who, when still underage, was playing spy/counterspy with a friend in Grosse Point using their new toy CB walkie-talkies, totally unaware that JFK was passing through the Detroit area on his way to speak at a university graduation ceremony 50 miles away. Scooped off the street, thrown in a cell overnight, no mention of why, no phone call, no notice to parents, ...) They also harassed someone who, during the Vietnam protests, wrote "Piss on JFK" on a postcard. Reason given: "If enough people pissed on him it would kill him."

    Why should the IRS be left without appropriate footwear?

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  24. Oh I see by Osgeld · · Score: 0

    it only took you 2 years to figure this out right as a big stink with the IRS is hitting the news?

    good for you, you worthless leech fucks, didnt give a shit when it happened, only cared when you can be in the spotlight

    1. Re:Oh I see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Retard

  25. Typos! ARRRRGH! by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Correcting typos:

    Spun out of Internal Revenue in 1886.
    Shot and killed the son and sniped and killed the (nursing at the time) wife over a FIVE dollar tax matter, not a five hundred buck bill.

    (ATF is also noted for throwing a pregnant woman against a wall - she later miscarried - and stomping a kitten to death just to drive home how powerless a raid target was to make them responsible for their actions. Shooting the family dogs at the start of a raid, for the raiders' convenience, is routine.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  26. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If they took information on a hundred people and used it somehow damage those people that's one thing. But 10 million records? That's too many to ever focus on even a thousand individuals, let alone every single person. Does anyone actually think the IRS is going to care what medications you take? If you had a knee replacement? That you went to see a dermatologist? They obviously don't care about your personal information because they have it already and they don't care what your medical background is. If you actually think or anyone actually thinks they can do something with your medical background then you are stupid because they don't know, they don't care about you and don't want to mess with you personally.

    Its part of their search. They obviously are after someone for something big so they took a scorch the earth approach and took every thing attached to that person and the information sitting next to it. Its easier to take more info than you need when you have your one warrant rather than get another and come back for it later.

    Fucking HIPPA is a joke anyway. If the IRS has my medical information I don't give a shit. They can read about the L femoral artery restructure I had or my wisdom teeth removal till the cows come home. And for anyone wanting to keep something private, it wont ever get because the fucking IRS isn't going to publish the info, share it with someone or give the public access so no one will find out because no one cares.

    1. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, abuses of government power are perfectly okay, provided they're BIG enough?

      Folks, this is why you don't marry your cousins.

    2. Re:Who cares? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Yeah! Who cares if they abused their power? We should just let the government do whatever it wants, provided that no one individual is ever severely damaged by the abuse.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  27. Lots of us were down on Bush, too. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why couldn't you get this angry at Bush Corp when it was doing similar or worse stuff?

    Lots of us were down on Bush, too.

    You just probably thought we were lefties. B-)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  28. Re:New IRS under Obamacare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    This is the Change and there is No Hope.

    Thanks to all you cock sucking, Obama loving retards.

  29. Health Insurance Scams Leave People High and Dry by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/03/health-insurance-scams-leave-people-high-and-dry/

    is the better system as the GOP gets kicks backs from junk health plans.

  30. Re:Why not jackboots? ATF is also under treasury. by Thng · · Score: 1
    ATF has been part of Department of Justice since 2003.
    from their history:
    ATF's History

    Effective January 24, 2003, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) was transferred under the Homeland Security bill to the Department of Justice. The law enforcement functions of ATF under the Department of the Treasury were transferred to the Department of Justice. The tax and trade functions of ATF will remain in the Treasury Department with the new Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau.

    In addition, the agency's name was changed to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to reflect its new mission in the Department of Justice.

  31. Better than awful still better by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Voting for a Republican is going to make it all better huh.

    No.

    But it would have kept the IRS out of healthcare enforcement.

    And it would have meant the entire population of the U.S. would not shortly be forced to buy the most expensive insurance policies (which is why all of the insurance companies backed Obamacare).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Better than awful still better by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Nobody is being forced to buy the most expensive insurance policies. They're being forced to buy a policy or to pay into the system. Assuming that they don't qualify for one of the numerous exemptions written into the law.

      Had the GOP been voted in, it would have meant that nobody would have health insurance because the rates would continue to climb at 12-20% and more as they chose not to handle the crisis.

    2. Re:Better than awful still better by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Nobody is being forced to buy the most expensive insurance policies.

      Catastrophic insurance policies, the only reasonable policy for a young person, are dead. The only plans that meet the criteria are larded up past any plans I ever had or needed.

      "Assuming that they don't qualify for one of the numerous exemptions written into the law."

      Code for "are not Democratic contributors or unions or any other Democratic groups that get exemptions". Yes we already know about the Democrat's use of government as a hammer to stamp out ideological opponents.

      Had the GOP been voted in, it would have meant that nobody would have health insurance because the rates would continue to climb

      It would have meant health care rates would have fallen after the GOP voted in the health care reforms they were asking for, like caps on malpractice and allowing insurance to be sold across state lines.

      I'll let you have the last response since all you do is yammer Democratic talking points; further discussion of the reality of he stormy waters into which we are sailing is pointless. I'll just watch over the next year as you and the rest of the people who don't understand the reality of what Obamacare was get the full dose you deserve, dealt at the hands of the IRS. Enjoy!

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:Better than awful still better by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It would have meant health care rates would have fallen after the GOP voted in the health care reforms they were asking for, like caps on malpractice and allowing insurance to be sold across state lines.

      The GOP had 8 years to pass health care reform under Bush. You don't really believe they would have passed anything, do you? You're not that much of a sucker, are you?

      BTW, if you cap malpractice, who pays for the health care of someone who was injured by malpractice? If the slip of a knife causes someone to require tens of thousands of dollars of health care, where is that going to come from? This wouldn't be a problem under single payer, btw. What's the conservative solution? Let the market sort it out?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Better than awful still better by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Eight years, eh? I guess Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi was a Republican, and of course no one ever remembers Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle. Between them, 5 years of those 8 are gone...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    5. Re:Better than awful still better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Health Insurance premiums have already skyrocketed because of Obamacare. The 17 largest Insurers are predicting between a %100 and % 400 increase. You can't open the flood gates and expecte it to not get us soaked.

    6. Re:Better than awful still better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The conservative solution is to either be rich enough to afford to live or don't.

    7. Re:Better than awful still better by Feyshtey · · Score: 1
      Are you that stupid? Or are you deliberately trying to be obtuse in order to create a strawman?

      BTW, if you cap malpractice, who pays for the health care of someone who was injured by malpractice? If the slip of a knife causes someone to require tens of thousands of dollars of health care, where is that going to come from?

      Are you that stupid? Or are you deliberately trying to be obtuse in order to create a strawman?

      If there are tens of thousands of dollars of damage due to malpractice, those tens of thousands of dollars plus tens, or maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars of damages more could be assessed against those responsible. No one has suggested otherwise. This is not a ban on malpractice suits. What's suggested is that justice is not served by a $20million suit to punish a nurse for cracking ribs while providing CPR.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    8. Re:Better than awful still better by mayko · · Score: 1

      BTW, if you cap malpractice, who pays for the health care of someone who was injured by malpractice? If the slip of a knife causes someone to require tens of thousands of dollars of health care, where is that going to come from?

      I believe the malpractice caps proposed were mainly related to noneconomic damages. Things like "pain and suffering" where people can be awarded millions of dollars based on a jury's judgement call. The medical bills you refer to would be direct economic damages and include past and future medical expenses, past and future lost earnings, domestic services, job loss, and lost business or employment opportunities. That would be unlimited.

    9. Re:Better than awful still better by Hatta · · Score: 2

      Are you stupid enough to believe that Republicans wouldn't use "a $20million suit to punish a nurse for cracking ribs while providing CPR" as an excuse to indemnify doctors against all their wrongs? They have proven that they will deregulate everything, no matter who it hurts, just for the sake of deregulation.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:Better than awful still better by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      I'm enjoying a chuckle at the moment.

      Richard Nixon -- the last great liberal

      Herbert Stein, chief economic adviser during the administrations of Nixon and Gerald Ford, once remarked: “Probably more new regulation was imposed on the economy during the Nixon administration than in any other presidency since the New Deal.”

      How many remember that Nixon was a champion of affirmative action? “Incredible but true”, as Fortune magazine put it in 1994 when Nixon died, “It was the Nixonites that gave us employment quotas.” Though many credit John F. Kennedy or Lyndon Johnson with initiating affirmative action, it was rather Richard Nixon who first sanctioned formal goals and time frames to break barriers to minority employment.

      Social Security benefits, a cornerstone of the Democratic Party platform, were also crucial to Nixon’s policies. He ushered in a minimum tax on the wealthy and supported a guaranteed income for all Americans, a move that would rile today’s Republicans to unprecedented heights.

      And finally, consider health care: Nixon’s proposed reform would have required employers to buy health insurance for their employees and subsidize those who couldn’t afford it. Nixon’s version of national health care was a far more liberal concept than Bill Clinton’s or Barack Obama’s—and it failed because of Democratic opposition, not lack of support from Nixon’s own party. (Ted Kennedy later said that opposing Nixon’s health-care plan was one of his biggest political regrets.) . . .more

      Government regulation can become unduly burdensome for the intended purpose. I remember reading about a reform in government travel regulations a number of years ago that helps illustrate. The government was spending about 30% of the travel budget ensuring that there was no waste, fraud, or abuse in travel, which struck many people at the time as a form of waste, fraud, or abuse. The regulations were changed.

      President Obama's stimulus plan has faced many hurdles, rendering it ineffective. A Stimulus Project Gets All Caulked Up

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    11. Re:Better than awful still better by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The white house can submit legislation. What did they submit that was health-care related?

    12. Re:Better than awful still better by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The result is that when you lose your arm through doctor's negligence, you must prove actual loss in court, or you get nothing for him having robbed you of your arm. The Conservatives are the first to champion punitive prison sentences, but a punitive civil judgment is insane. I don't get the logic. It seems inconsistent to me.

  32. other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by decora · · Score: 1

    both being in the Nixon whitehouse,
    and Nixon using the power of the FBI to go after political opponents,
    and Nixon going after the press,
    and Nixon spying on opposition figures,
    and Nixon being horribly wrong about war,

    1. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It certainly appears that the Obama administration went after political opponents with the IRS. Can you point out when the Bush administration did that with either the IRS or FBI against political opponents? I don't recall that happening.

      You may recall the Obama administration going after Fox News repeatedly. What comparable thing happened under the Bush administration? I don't recall that happening.

      Nixon was actually right about the war in Vietnam, and extracted the US from it. There isn't much doubt that the US was correct about going to war in Afghanistan, and all of the causes of action against Iraq were correct (banned long range missiles, obstruction, crimes against humanity, etc.) except the active WMD programs. The WMD programs were in stasis, just waiting for Saddam to complete his breakout of sanctions using the Oil for Food money to bribe UN members and politicians around the world. If Iraq was able to break out of the sanctions regime, there is no doubt those WMD programs would restart. Oh, and don't forget, Saddam had the government mime as if they still had WMD material to fool the Iranians. He didn't think the West in general, and the US specifically, would act. He guessed wrong.

      Since the IRS under the Obama administration was asking extremely intrusive questions of conservative political groups, and then forwarding that information to liberal groups, I guess that counts as spying too. You think the Bush administration did that? Not so much.

      Other than working in the White House, I don't recall that either Cheney or Rumsfeld were ever implicated in any part of the Watergate scandal. So unless you have something, you have nothing as the basis for a smear.

      I don't think you nailed this one other than successfully identifying where two people worked for a short period.

    2. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    3. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      Sorry, but there is no "there," there. US Attorneys are political appointees that serve at the pleasure of the President. Normally practically all of them, if not all of them, are replaced when a new administration comes in to office, especially from a different party. As I recall the standard is that they offer their resignation, and it is normally accepted. If that is all you have to hang your hat on, that is pretty weak tea indeed. And they weren't spied upon inappropriately, just fired, as was administration's right.

      Leaving them in the positions to begin with was probably ill-considered by the Bush administration since they didn't really support the administration. Not really helpful. President Bush may have been thinking that he would be able to work with Democrats at the national level as he was able to in Texas. That didn't appear to work out in a lot of areas.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    4. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      From the link: The dismissed U.S. Attorneys had all been appointed by President George W. Bush and confirmed by the Senate, more than four years earlier.

      And: Allegations were that some of the attorneys were targeted for dismissal to impede investigations of Republican politicians or that some were targeted for their failure to initiate investigations that would damage Democratic politicians or hamper Democratic-leaning voters.

    5. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by cold+fjord · · Score: 2
      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    6. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sanctimonious statements are cheap. Actual discussions are worthwhile. There are plenty of facts linked from the Wikipedia article. Here are some more articles with facts (and opinions, just like yours).

      But at least this time it looks like you read the link, rather than responding to something that wasn't even asserted. Please note, however, that your mrc.org link seems to be discussing a practice that you were defending just a couple of posts back. And the National Review link talks about just one case.

      Anyway, the attorneys controversy serves as a counterpoint to the original post. It was typical partisan dreck, where everything was perfect and/or excusable under Bush, and the problems under Obama are somehow unique. That kind of campaign-like crap is way too common by all parties. It's exhausting, and is inimical to rational discussion and governance.

    7. Re: other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by Mabhatter · · Score: 2

      The IRS went after the political opponents on legit tax grounds. Any time a type of tax shelter becomes a fad they lock things down.

      Look here: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/501c4-vs-501c3-vs-527/

      A 501c4 is not a "charitable organization" it's a political party-lite organization. It has a very arrow acceptable focus versus using a 527 for your organization. With a bunch of groups all got bad tax instructions from the Internet, or somebody DELIBERATELY put those groups to filing in the wrong categories. Given people calling the shots in the Tea Party are high paid lawyers and accountants that are paid to know about this stuff, I would believe the later. "Corporate" logic doesn't work on a tax form filed for farmers co-op political org in Illinois... The people at the IRS aren't stupid, their job isn't to be a blind rubber stamp on whatever is filled in the blanks... That's the Patent Office.

    8. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2

      The issue is in the title of your second link. You can fire all US Attorneys, and no one blinks an eye, because they are political appointees. However, if you fire 8, the assumption is that they have been selected. Couple that with the fact that the fired attorneys were a thorn in the side of republicans, and now you need to explain why singling out 8 AGs is NOT a political decision.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    9. Re: other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      The IRS went after the political opponents on legit tax grounds. Any time a type of tax shelter becomes a fad they lock things down.

      Which no doubt explains the large number of left-leaning groups that were targeted by the IRS in that time frame...

      Oh, wait....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    10. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > It certainly appears that the Obama administration went after political opponents with the IRS.

      No. It appears like the blue part of a red state applied the sort of personal bias you would naturally expect them to have. Once you realize which facility was responsible and where it is, things kind of fall into place.

      No "conspiracy" is required.

      Does bring up the question of oversight thought.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    11. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nixon was actually right about the war in Vietnam, and extracted the US from it.

      You mean the same Nixon that may have committed treason by sabotaging peace talks with Vietnam in 1968, so he could look better for the upcoming election in which he was running, thereby prolonging the war for five more years? That Nixon?

    12. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since all of these stories broke, it got me thinking about the intrusive questioning by the census bureau after O was elected. Hmmm. Another example of abuse?

    13. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      What I want to find out is how the Obama Administration used the IRS in this case. This implies that someone in the White House contacted someone in the IRS and said "Hey, the Tea Partiers are being assholes. PUNISH THEM!". Or something to that effect. Until that gets established, it is the IRS that took a closer look at tax-exempt status submissions by organizations that tied themselves to people big on tax revolt.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    14. Re:other than Cheney and Rumsfeld by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      OMFG you dared question "THE NARRATIVE"

      So you're a racist, homophobic right wing nut job clinging to guns and religion, totally out of touch with what is good for America.

      Soon the IRS will show you what the penalty is for incorrect thoughts, and speech. Please report to the nearest train station, bring warm clothes, and a shovel.

      If you don't think this is where we are headed, please remove head from ass, or sand, and pay attention.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
  33. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah. Bush had a lot of beers while your boy was dying in Nam. That's coz Bush never went to Nam. His daddy got him a deferment, or he just ran and hid someplace, or something like that. Damn that Africa born socialist Obama.

  34. Re:Why didn't the company encrypt the medical data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article says that the "legitimate search warrant" did not permit the seizing of health records and that the employees of the company told the IRS personnel that the could be taking more than they had a legally right to take. The IRS ignored the warnings and seized the "unwarranted" data legally.

    Do you really want the IRS to have the financial information that can be gleaned from your medical records--"Hey this guy had three surgeries this year. How did he pay for them?"--this could cause you a great deal of grief, harm and, even, stress-related disease and death.

  35. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by hedwards · · Score: 2

    That's unlikely, President Obama was born in 1961, by the time he was 18, the Vietnam conflict was already over.

    I'm curious where you got the evidence that he was palling around with terrorists when he was still in grade school.

  36. Re:Why not jackboots? ATF is also under treasury. by modecx · · Score: 1

    The IRS doesn't need to outsource to the DoJ or DHS for jackboots, as of last year they've started assembling their very own paramilitary task force, rumored to consist in large part of special operators returning from war. If that doesn't make you feel all warm inside, two to the chest and one to the head might.

    --
    Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
  37. Re:Why didn't the company encrypt the medical data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Wow someone who was incorrect, was given correct information, then learned something and responded politely thanking the giver of the information. Unfuckingheard of nowadays. :D

  38. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by Microlith · · Score: 1

    I think he's referring to the fixation some "conservatives" have on Obama's association with Bill Ayers.

  39. Wake up zombies! by waiting+4+ww3 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I am tired of this BS. Listen to yourselves! Both sides defending the dems or reps. Let me clue you into something, kiddies. Neither side gives a crap about you, or this country. They're both evil, with their own agendas. And their agendas do not involve doing what's best the U.S. They care only about getting and maintaining power. The 2 party poli system is more dangerous to our nation then terrorism. And it will be to our own destruction if we don't rise up and change it.

    1. Re:Wake up zombies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing will be fixed until the democraps and republicants are both disbanned by law, and made so they can never reform under any name.

      ie - and end to the political party system as we know it.
      an end to the electoral college as our people are now educated by law, the electorals can go fuck themselves as they are owned by corporate overlords.

      Then make elections based on a politicians stand on a set of key questions and choices.
      When a vote is required, the politician must vote the way they had listed on their ticket when they ran, if they don't, they lose all pay (forced to pay it back, all benefits, and may never run for office again).
      Next. End the politician free-rides - no pay for no work - when they are done in office, they get nothing afterwards - no pension, no healthcare.
      While they are in office, they get social-security for their paycheck, medicaid and medicare for their health insurance, nothing else - even if they had the money to personally pay for it, they cannot have it.

      Any politician caught advertising for their campaign will automatically forfeit the election.
      Any politician caught taking money, forfeits the campaign, or their office, period (with all penalties of non-compliant voting enforced).
      Any politician caught trying to use social security as part of the general budget will be prosecuted under the laws setup to protect the fund - which makes it a treasonous offense to touch the fund - this will be prosecuted retro-actively to all previous politicians who held office and stole/raped/pillaged the social security fund.
      All political offices can only be held for one consecutive term, after that, they have to stay out for at least one term, before running for re-election.
      All political offices can only be held by two individuals for two round-robin terms before each politician must sit out for a minimum of 10 years for any political office.
      Ditto 3 individuals for 2 round-robin terms, etc... 4, 5, 6 - ie - no chain or continuous loop of politicians.

      Any politician caught violating any of these laws, or any law (including jay-walking) after taking office, will be permanently barred from holding any political office ever again, and lose all benefits permanently.

      We the people will hold the government to a much higher standard.

      Any corporation with offices in the United States will pay sales tax at a minimum of 10% of all sales, worldwide, regardless of country of sale.
      Any corporation caught trying to hide income will have 100% of it's assets seized worldwide and liquidated into the Social Security fund.
      All corporate officers will now be held 100% legally accountable for the actions taken by the corporation. If a corporation breaks any laws, the corporate officers will serve the jail terms - this includes the board of directors and stockholders with more than 1% share in the corporation - yes, this means that lots of people will serve time from one violation of the law.
      All corporate officers will undergo incoming and outgoing audits and if any bonuses or salary abnormalities (ie salary higher than 50% more than the lowest paid worker) exists, they will have 200% of those assets seized and liquidated into the Social Security fund.
      All stock sales will be hit with a 10% sales tax on purchase.
      No more personal gains or losses - you pay the taxes up front when you buy.
      Stocks must be held for a minimum of 72 hours before re-selling. No more microtransactions.
      If a company tries to remove their stocks from the US Stock Markets, their incorporation in the United States is disolved, immediately, and all corporate assets will be seized, and liquidated into the Social Security fund.

      It's time to end the corrupt, illegal system as it stands today. It's time to put the crooks (politicians and corporate overlords) where they belong, behind bars, with no resources left for them to rely on.

    2. Re:Wake up zombies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So basically, you want to repeal the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 8th Amendments. And this is supposed to make things better.

  40. The Game So Far... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

    Seems like the administration was running arms/missiles to Syria via Turkey from Benghazi, which US Ambassador. Stevens brokered. To tie up loose ends, they arranged to have Stevens sent to Benghazi with little security or protection on 9/11 when attacks were likely and left him to die.

    Unfortunately for them, this has been picked up and is getting attention. Cue these other scandals (IRS/AP) which they calculated would distract attention from Benghazi. Unfortunately again, for them, instead of distracting from Benghazi, it has morphed in public perception into a "Trifecta of Corruption" in which these individual scandals are reinforcing the others and attracting magnitudes more attention to all the scandals.

    People on both sides of the political spectrum are starting to agree, and that spells big trouble for them, and I include the "mainstream"/"old guard" core Republicans. Division is what keeps *both* parties in power...while taking ever more power and freedom from us.

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    1. Re:The Game So Far... by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Seems like the administration was running arms/missiles to Syria via Turkey from Benghazi, which US Ambassador. Stevens brokered. To tie up loose ends, they arranged to have Stevens sent to Benghazi with little security or protection on 9/11 when attacks were likely and left him to die.

      Your hypothesis doesn't even come close to making the slightest bit of sense:
      1. We'd have no problems running arms into Turkey directly and from there into Syria: Turkey is a longtime NATO ally of the US, and very nearly called upon the US to directly defend their country from Assad's government in Syria (Turkey had been hit with several missiles). There's absolutely no reason for Libya to be involved at all, and given the chaos in Libya it would be stupid to create a stop in Libya just so that various bad guys would have a nice chance to steal the weapons en route.
      2. It wasn't much of a secret that the US was arming the Syrian rebels. As in, reports were in the New York Times to that effect. You argue that the Obama administration deliberately killed off a senior official to protect a secret that wasn't a secret.
      3. The administration didn't send Stevens to Benghazi. Stevens chose to go there himself. At best, you'd have to have the Obama administration conspiring to convince Stevens that the building was secure when it wasn't.
      4. Killing someone who's high-profile doesn't hush up any potential scandal, it draws attention to it.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  41. IRS is now bankrupt... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fines set for HIPA violations are around 100k per violation.

    The IRS just got nailed for 10 million violations. You think the IRS budget has over 10 quadrillion dollars available?

    Quite the fuckup there eh? Between that and illegal investigations into opposing political parties, sounds like the IRS is now defunct.

    No more federal income tax... Fuck yeah!!

  42. Editors: Check Your Sources by guttentag · · Score: 4, Informative

    Disclaimer: I am a former Washington Post journalist

    First of all, TFA is at The Washington Times. That alone makes its credibility dubious. The Washington Times was founded by Sun Myung Moon (crazy "Unification Church" cult leader) who stated that the purpose of the "newspaper" was to be "the instrument in spreading the truth about God to the world." Moon was convicted that same year of filing false federal income tax returns and conspiracy and served 13 months in prison. The Times has long been known as a conservative shill (although it has a decent sports section) that had to be financially supported by Moon's "church" to survive. Moon spent nearly $2 billion of his followers' money over 20 years to keep the paper afloat.

    Second, The Washington Times article doesn't even claim to have done any reporting on its own... it cites some article from UPI that isn't readily available on UPI's home page or even by searching UPI for "IRS." Ultimately found the "article" here. It's a 9-paragraph blog posting. UPI was once a respectable news agency like AP or Reuters, but its relevance diminished to the point where it was bought out in 2000 by... you guessed it: Sun Myung Moon. UPI's White House correspondent retired the next day after 57 years with the organization. These days UPI doesn't even have a White House correspondent, and its finances have gotten so bad that it relies on free articles contributed by college students.

    The UPI blog posting cites a Courthouse News Service article: John Doe Company sued 15 John Doe IRS agents in Superior Court. The plaintiff's attorney alleges that the records affected may include those of "politically controversial members of the Screen Actors Guild and the Directors Guild, and prominent citizens in the world of entertainment, business and government, from all walks of life." He goes on to complain that the unnamed IRS agents "decided to use John Doe Company's media system to watch basketball, ordering pizza and Coca-Cola, to take in part of the NCAA tournament," but "Plaintiff's attorney Robert E. Barnes declined to elaborate on the complaint's allegations, saying he will have more information 'in a few months.'"

    Why publish a story no one can verify, since all you can say for now is that that unnamed people at the IRS are illegally snooping on unnamed politically controversial people through an unnamed medical firm? Because it helps fuel the fire driving the current Republican party line of "the IRS is evil and Obama is responsible." Because some ignorant blogger might pick it up and run with it, thinking that The Washington Times and UPI are real news organizations, and not even bother to look for the source of this story. Great job Timothy.

    1. Re:Editors: Check Your Sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, for like eight bucks, you can obtain the court records for the filing from the San Diego Superior Court Register of Actions. The case number is 37-2013-00038750-CU-CR-CTL and there appears to be a copy floating around on the net as well. It was filed on March 11, 2013.

      EDIT: heh captcha was litigate

    2. Re:Editors: Check Your Sources by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      As a fellow ex-journo, I salute you.

      Nice work there. Thanks for digging this out.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:Editors: Check Your Sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The UPI blog posting cites a Courthouse News Service article: John Doe Company sued 15 John Doe IRS agents in Superior Court. ...

      Why publish a story no one can verify ...

      You could verify it by going to the Superior Court for San Diego. There is one recently filed "John Doe Company v. John Doe", case number 37-2013-00038750-CU-CR-CTL, but I couldn't confirm whether or not this is the case as the John Doe Company v. John Doe et al IRS agents because the court charges $7.50 to pull a page of court records off their web site.

      Fortunately, it got leaked onto the web:
      http://www.phiprivacy.net/wp-content/uploads/37-2013-00038750-CU-CR-CTL_roa1_03-11-13_.pdf

    4. Re:Editors: Check Your Sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Also, there's a good chance that the John Doe company is Anthem Blue Cross. The accusation says that the IRS took records of essentially all California court employees; California court employees' health benefits are from Anthem Blue Cross. It fits the profile of a company having more than 10 million customers nationwide, with more than 1 million in California. I haven't confirmed this, but it's a place to start looking.

    5. Re:Editors: Check Your Sources by Corporate+T00l · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The fact that there was a court case filed on this topic is not much of a news story. If you went through court filings, you can find any number of bizarre and conspiratorial lawsuits filed against the government everyday, all over the place.

      The real mystery is how a run-of-the-mill everyday nutcase filing gets to the front page of Slashdot. The answer to that has everything to do with the Washington Times, and guttentag's comment.

    6. Re:Editors: Check Your Sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that there was a court case filed on this topic is not much of a news story.

      But it proves the court case exists, which disproves GP's assertion that nobody could possibly verify that the allegations were alleged. (We could hold a separate debate on whether allegations should be enough to write an article, but look through any newspaper today and you'll see that most articles are based on allegations alone, usually with a lede stating the allegation as a plain fact.)

      The real mystery is how a run-of-the-mill everyday nutcase filing gets to the front page of Slashdot.

      Robert E. Barnes is a tax attorney with 12 years' experience who is most well known for his defense of Wesley Snipes on tax evasion charges. Please present your evidence that he is a run-of-the-mill everyday nutcase.

    7. Re:Editors: Check Your Sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just did. If he represented Snipes, he must be a nutcase. :)

    8. Re:Editors: Check Your Sources by zipn00b · · Score: 1
  43. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, but it's unlikely that he was palling around with Ayers while the GGP's son was dieing in Vietnam, seeing as the war was over before Obama would have even met Ayers.

  44. Re: IRS+scientology / fighting the IRS = no winner by c0lo · · Score: 1

    Bob, we don't target people for tax audits and third-degree checks on the singular basis of the words with which they choose to identify their group. To argue otherwise is to open the door to some of the greatest evils in mankind's history.

    Other than to note that others have already opened this door in the past, I can't do anything but to agree with you.

    Case at hand that I know of: East European countries in the former communist block; there was that special branch of police to make sure that nobody other than the mid-to-top members of the ruling party could have any means to make a better live for themselves. Anonymous snitching was encouraged.

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  45. Say all you want about Nixon but... by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 1

    he didn't do anything that LBJ didn't do as president, except for one thing... when some underlings got overzealous and broke the law ( without his knowledge ) he ordered it covered up--violating the law--instead of throwing his people under the bus. Personally I sort of like him better for that -- though he probably could have found a safer better way to do it.

    One thing he never did-- outside the confines of fighting a war-- , he never had anyone killed, much less a foreign leader. If he did I think he would have been successful, This is unlike a certain president who tried to have a foreign leader assassinated three times ( and not pulling it off ) and even dealing with the Mafia to do it.

    1. Re:Say all you want about Nixon but... by gewalker · · Score: 1

      Ahem. Nixon did not do everything that LBJ did.

      During a road trip to Vietnam

      On one occasion, some reporters asked Johnson in an off-the-record gathering to explain America's participation in Vietnam. There was no satisfactory answer to that question in LBJ's brain, so he unzipped, revealed his not-so private member, and stated: "This is why!" Like other presidents before and since, Johnson found that his libidinous behaviour could be a cause of political weakness.

      In general, LBJ was quite proud of his endowment.

      Lyndon B. Johnson nicknamed his penis 'Jumbo' and showed it to his colleagues at the US Capitol!

    2. Re:Say all you want about Nixon but... by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 1

      If you read my statement, you see that I say that anything Nixon did so did LBJ, not that Nixon did everything LBJ did.

  46. Re:Outrageous ! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Acerbic political commentary from APK.

    Only on Slashdot, folks.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  47. Re: IRS+scientology / fighting the IRS = no winner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bob, we don't target people for tax audits and third-degree checks on the singular basis of the words with which they choose to identify their group. To argue otherwise is to open the door to some of the greatest evils in mankind's history.

    Joe, we don't blind our eyes to actual wrong-doing just because we're under the impression that it's justice. That's actually one of the evils that said Tea Party purports to complain against, willful blindness to evil, and assert that they're standing up to self-righteous devils who pretend to be saintly angels.

    Have you never read any of their literature, when they denounce the use of concepts like "equal opportunity" as a noble virtue by arguing it's really an attempt to destroy the virtuous majority (that is, themselves)?

    They know exactly what kind of thing leads to evil, and yeah, it turns out they're quite concerned with the words used. Which makes their obliviousness to their own culpability in such things rather striking.

    The fact is, profiling is both wrong and right. Humans who don't learn from experience tend to suffer from it, humans who are trapped in their past experiences also tend to suffer from it.

    Go figure.

  48. IRS Woes by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Not a good month for the IRS. Dentists are more popular right now.

  49. Lawyers win the most in lawsuits. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So as each illegally requested record would be a violation (not the individuals affected). Sounds like they are trying to take the country itself to the cleaners, a big old (and impossible) payday. So 60 million violations x $25,000 per violation would be 1.5 trillion dollars ($1,500,000,000,000). So the provider is looking for a payday of unprecedented scale. I'm sure entire law firms would be salivating over this as usually they get a big bite on lawsuits.

  50. Re: They're just getting a head start on Obamacare by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

    But the IRS still has to follow HIPAA laws for that information. Considering normal tax material is basically wide-open for what is posted on your tax form or in court documents, it is an EXTREMELY valid claim to require the IRS prove it is following the law... In fact HIPAA laws DEMAND that you only give data to other HIPAA-following parties, I doubt the IRS is an exception.

    When the IRS analyst is done with this individual, and the hard drive goes to the trash (and on the Internet) who's name is attached to the HIPAA laws???

  51. Not about the 80% by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This was not about the 80% spending rule. This was about the financial data on one individual, that just happened to be an employee at this company. If he worked at McDonalds, they'd have been pulling records on 60 million hamburgers.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    1. Re:Not about the 80% by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      This was not about the 80% spending rule. This was about the financial data on one individual, that just happened to be an employee at this company. If he worked at McDonalds, they'd have been pulling records on 60 million hamburgers.

      Problem is, hamburgers aren't covered under HIPAA statutes, and don't/won't have privacy concerns.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:Not about the 80% by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Aren't IRS agents bound by similar oath of silence about personal data as medical officials? If they are, where is the problem?

      I'm curious, tax officials here in Finland are in fact bound by similar rules as medical ones.

    3. Re:Not about the 80% by countach74 · · Score: 2

      By that logic, anyone who's "bound by an oath of silence" should have access to all of our personal data. What if 20% of the populace was bound by such oaths? Just because they can't talk about it doesn't mean they should know your business.

    4. Re:Not about the 80% by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Because the more people who are under "oaths of silence" that have your records, the less like "silence" it becomes.

      And yes, if you can assume that your government workers are only acting in the interests of their job, and never overreach, and never act politically, you might well be justified in allowing them access, secure in the knowledge that they are only using their authority to protect the public.

      Unfortunately, as we have just seen with the IRS, they are quite capable of being political and biased at some level and having it spill over enough that they use their official capacity to cause issues. And despite my usual wariness towards expanding government power, I have to admit surprise that something this blatant has happened. I think direct comparisons to Watergate would probably be overblown, but when they say 'Nixonian', it rings at least a little true. All that there is really missing for that to be spot-on is the "amoral genius" in the central position.

      The fact is, no matter how good your civil servants are *now*, they don't have to remain that way into the future. That's why limiting their power is always the right thing to do, even if it impairs efficiency a little. Authority, once given to a government, is rarely returned short of revolution, even if the need for that authority has evaporated. And it *will* be used, no matter what party is in office at the time, and no matter how much they campaigned on promising to not to do the same things.

    5. Re:Not about the 80% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aren't IRS agents bound by similar oath of silence about personal data as medical officials? If they are, where is the problem?

      zOMG!!! You are SO ADORABLE! I just want to pinch your cheeks! That is the cutest thing I have heard all week!!!!

    6. Re:Not about the 80% by mabhatter654 · · Score: 0

      THAT is the exact problem here, more than some flimsy 4th amendment claim. The IRS is "seorn to privacy" about as much as your cleaning lady... Unless an agent dumped a bunch of F500 financial statements its probably not even an of fence that gets past reprimanded and wrist smacked.

      HIPAA is a YOU MUST ENSURE PRIVACY, under pain of financial damages and civil lawsuits. You must ensure with "good faith" that ANY AGENCY you give protected documents to ALSO FOLLOWS HIPAA to your agencies standards. An average IRS agent has ZERO meeting of that standard.. If they were t the IRS the company could get in trouble for letting them access the files at all.

      The 4th amendment issue is that IRS documents (and evidence gathered) have very flimsy "privacy" protections... The ITS has no obligation to redact information of other patties nor do they even have to prove they disposed of the information in a HIPAA approved manner, or ANY secure manner. So seven years from now, this information is "free as in Wikileaks" to anybody clever enough to wait for it.

    7. Re: Not about the 80% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      remember, he/she lives in Finland, NOT the U.S.

  52. Voting for either party is like living at home by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Voting for either party is like living at home...

    The Republicans want to be your dad:

    o "You're not going to get away with that crap with me! Go to your room!"
    o "Military services would straighten you right out!"
    o "If you want spending money, put down the remote control and get a damn job!"
    o "No daughter of mine is getting a damn abortion!" ...

    The Democrats want to be your mom:

    o "Maybe if you gave that Kim Jong boy a chance, you'd find out he's no really a bully, and is fun to play with!"
    o "Don't tell your dad I gave you this, but here's $20 for gas; you kids have a nice time!"
    o "You hurt your knee? Come here, and let mommy kiss it better!"
    o "OK honey, we've had 'the talk'; should we go to the doctor and get you some birth control?" ...

    Either way, you're living at home, and you never grow up.

    Meanwhile, the Green party is lowering buckets on a rope from the trees they are camped out in to prevent them being cut down, and the Libertarian party is living in the cardboard box near the dumpster because they think matching funds are a "gub'mint handout!" and refuse to take charity. Not to be confused with the Objectivists, who also won't take handouts, but it's not enough for them to not take handouts, they won't give them, and if someone does give them, they won't let you take them. To translate: your aunt with all the cats, your mom's alcoholic brother, and your dad's sister who's married to the banker but cheating with the pool boy because she's unhappy.

    One big, happy family.

  53. the IRS already gets that data by stenvar · · Score: 1

    Seems to me the IRS already gets that data in many cases: since medical expenses are deductible, you need to prove that you actually incurred them. And insurance companies and doctors likely need to provide detailed information about services as well for audits: what medical procedure was performed on whom and how much was charged for it.

  54. Re: They're just getting a head start on Obamacare by gewalker · · Score: 1

    No fan of the IRS, but it is certainly possible that the laws themselves are conflicting.

  55. ACA Already entitles IRS to your medical records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only reason IRS is being sued is because the records were seized before the IRS provision of the ACA took effect.

    Another provision of ACA that takes effect Jan 1 2014 is that it will be a felony for a doctor to provide service on an anonymous basis. Any time a doctor "gives medical advice" it must go into a medical record and tendered to the government. Same applies to testing labs - so no more anonymous blood tests.

    And you idiots voted for this.

  56. Re: They're just getting a head start on Obamacare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not so fast, tex. The congress voting something through does not make it a law (unless the president has just vetoed it, we're on the second time around and there's a supermajority.) Otherwise, they're just sending a bill to the president. If he signs it, *then* it's law.

  57. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by geminidomino · · Score: 1

    My super sekret source, "Gaping Gullet" is preparing an information pack which will reveal, irrefutably, that during a particularly nippy week in April, Ayers was, in fact, Milk Monitor in the cafeteria! Clearly, this is where the whole sordid mess began.

  58. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Funny

    Here's what I thought the story was:
    - Obama avoided going to Vietnam, just like those cowardly Democrats John Kerry and Al Gore.
    - He moved from where he was born in Kenya to Indonesia to study how to become a secret Muslim terrorist.
    - At the tender age of 6 years old, he helped Bill Ayers bomb the Pentagon.
    - As soon as he got back to the US, he started doggedly following Jeremiah Wright's hatred of America, but remained somehow a secret Muslim.
    - All policies Obama has ever made as president have been about trying to take away everyone's guns.
    - In 2012, he had the gall to not show up to a debate with Clint Eastwood.

    I could go on, but these are the kinds of things a significant portion of the US says they believe about him. (And, for the record, absolutely none of them are true)

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  59. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except that he trained and was certified a fighter pilot and flew many hours in the F102. How he got there, what his performance rating was, make up all the stories you want, he certainly wasn't the first and wasn't the last to avoid going to the war, but he certainly did train and become a pilot, and fly missions.

    More time and money was spent digging up that information during the run-up to the 2000 elections than was spent on anything to vet Obama, and at least Bush had some military training, some training in anything at all.

    How's Barry's college transcript look again?

    We can't even get his transcript, but we can, for decades, speculate on how Bush wound up in the Texas national guard?

  60. Great to have you right wingers aboard! by L.+J.+Beauregard · · Score: 2

    It's wonderful that you're finally concerned about the Fourth Amendment!

    NOW WHERE WAS ALL THIS WORRY WHEN THE PATRIOT ACT WAS BEFORE CONGRESS?

    --
    Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
    Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
    1. Re:Great to have you right wingers aboard! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When it's their ill-gotten billions at stake, suddenly they start to care how they've raped the government to do the bidding of the tyrannical one in charge. Just goes to show you how utterly hypocritical wealthy scumbags truly are.

    2. Re:Great to have you right wingers aboard! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but this is different"

  61. How did they sue the IRS? by Vrtigo1 · · Score: 2

    Doesn't the federal government enjoy the privilege of being one of the few entities that cannot be sued unless they allow you to sue them?

    1. Re:How did they sue the IRS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahhh but here's the nail in their coffin - it's a mandatory criminal prosecution for violating the HIPAA terms - they cannot NOT file charges and prosecute the IRS staff responsible.

      10 years in prison per violation.
      250,000 dollars per violation.

  62. TRUTH bout our IRS! (prove it wrong if you dare) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. I am an American National, neither a U.S. citizen nor a resident alien. In regards to the federal “United States” national government and its exclusive jurisdiction, a “nonresident alien”. [26 USC Section 7701(b)(1)(B)]

    2. My domicile &/or residence is ‘outside’ the “United States” {the District of Columbia} [IRC Section 7408(d), 7701(a)(9) and (a)(10)]

    3. None of my income is derived from being engaged in the conduct of a “trade or business” within the “United States”, which equates to the performance of the functions of a public officer. [26 USC Section 864(b)(1) “trade or business”; 26 USC Section 7701(a)(26)]

    4. As a “nonresident alien” I am also “excepted” from those who are taxpayers by my declared status. [26 USC Section 861(a)(3)(C), 26 USC Section 864(b)(1), 26 USC Section 1402, 26 CFR Section 31.3401(a)(6)-1(b), 26 CFR Section 1.872-2(f)]

    5. In regards to all federal jurisdictions in context to residence, I can only be classified as a “transient” or “sovereign”, as I possess no “intention” to reside in the federal “United States”. [26 CFR Section 1.871-2(b)]

    6. I.R.C. Sections 6001 and 6011 refer to every “person” liable for any (subtitle A tax inferred) tax imposed by those titles. Definition of “person” found at 26 USC Section 7701(a)(1) which references the term “individual” just like what is printed on Form 1040 “U.S. Individual Income Tax Return”. “Individual” is defined at 5 USC Section 552a(a)(2). As an American National I can not be labeled as a statutory “U.S. citizen” defined at 8 USC Section 1401(a) nor a “resident”.

    7. The Administrative Procedures Acts [5 USC 556(d)] places the Burden of Proof upon the IRS.

    8. Section 7851 deals with the Applicability of Revenue Laws and shows that Subtitle A income tax ‘ends, ceases to exist, implodes, dies, vanishes’ AFTER the date of enactment of that title 26.

    9. Enforcement statutes like 26 USC 6702 which fall under Subtitle F can only be applicable towards Subtitle A [and Subtitle C Chapter 24 Collection of income tax at source, and the 1040 tax] and that Subtitle A must be enacted.

    10. The enacted authority to "Levy by Distraint" is only applicable to excise taxes under Title 27 and there is NO REFERENCE to any authority for Title 26 Subtitle A income tax, Subtitle C Chapter 24 collection of income tax at source, or the 1040 tax.

    11. The IRS has not published ANY tax liability for Subtitle A income tax upon American Citizens in the Federal Register.

    12. The 16th Amendment was an Act of Congress to terminate the Income Tax Act of 1894, which was declared to be un-Constitutional by the USSC with it being a Direct tax upon American Citizens. It created a new, excise, tax placed only upon the National Government, corporations, and "U.S. Citizens" who were born in federal territories and subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the United States (federal govt). [Congressional Record pages 3344-3345]

    13. The Federal Zone consists of only Washington DC and US Territories and Possessions and DOES NOT extend into the 50 States of the Union.

    14. If American Citizens were required to report their income and file/pay a 1040 income tax return, the following would be in place:
    1) An enacted Statue in 26 USC for an imposed obligation to make income tax return
    2) An implementing Regulation published in 26 CFR imposing an obligation to make
    income tax return
    3) The promulgation in the Federal Register of that Implementing Regulation in 26
    CFR evidenced by a volume,

  63. Re:TRUTH bout our IRS! (prove it wrong if you dare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the POWERS THAT BE will make sure these FACTS are suppressed/twisted/removed. 95% of all Americans actually qualify as non-taxpayers but the TRUTH will never be exposed. BUT if this TIF (truth-in-facts) is discovered/understood by most Americans and then adopted/applied the IRS would disappear OVERNIGHT. The majority will view this as some sort of tax-dodging scheme, but the proof is in the pudding. The FACTS above can be easily researched and proven true (although 'they' have spread the truth over thousands and thousands of pages to make it impossible to come this conclusion).

  64. Re: IRS+scientology / fighting the IRS = no winner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bob, we don't target people for tax audits and third-degree checks on the singular basis of the words with which they choose to identify their group. To argue otherwise is to open the door to some of the greatest evils in mankind's history.

    Right, targeting tax except group that's banned from politics with the name of a political party would be profiling. We all know profiling is evil when it's used against angry white men.

  65. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    Ah, "good" ole Bill.

    William Ayers' forgotten communist manifesto: Prairie Fire

    The last section is especially interesting.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  66. Re: Private interests wrote the health care law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, the vast majority of the health care law was written by private interests before anyone in Washington even began doing backroom deals to get it passed. Any "debate" in Congress was only about adding pork to the bill to get it passed. Especially under the Obama regime almost all major legislation has been written by outsiders before any lawmaker even sees it. It's the new normal. Lawmakers are simply rubberstampers who negotiate themselves extras in the bill in order to sell their signature.

  67. John Doe Corp broke HIPAA data breech notice rule by generic_screenname · · Score: 1

    I assume a company that large would be perfectly aware of their responsibility to report data breeches. So, how about 10% of us wait for the lawsuit to finish, and then each sue "John Doe Corporation", whoever that might be, for not informing us of this data breech as required by HIPAA?

  68. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by jedidiah · · Score: 1

    > Except that he trained and was certified a fighter pilot

    And never left American soil.

    This is in stark contrast to someone from a prominent Democrat family like Kerry or Kennedy. With the GOP, sacrifice is something that the other guy (preferably poor) does.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  69. Re:Why not jackboots? ATF is also under treasury. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The BATFE (formerly ATF) was moved from Treasury to Justice in 2002 with the passage of the Homeland Security Act.
    In 2003, the same act moved the US Secret Service to the Department of Homeland Security.

    Neither of these agencies are part of Treasury anymore, though I understand that they keep close ties.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BATF#Organizational_history & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service

  70. Stoopid Question... by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

    When the fuck did corporations get constitutional rights? THEY AIN'T PEOPLE, PEOPLE!!!!

    --
    Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
  71. Re: They're just getting a head start on Obamacare by Arkiel · · Score: 1

    I have. You're full of shit.

  72. Skepticism? by Cracked+Pottery · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one who is unwilling to take at face value a news story from "Courthouse News Service" which reports a lawsuit against the IRS that accuses them of seizing millions of private medical records, but does not identify the plaintiff? The story was repeated by the moonie times, and they couldn't use their vast resources to dig up an easily obtainable public record. Without details, it's just a rumor.

  73. Re:New IRS under Obamacare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like the cum swallowing Republicunts are any better than the cock sucking Demoshits.

    Neither party is worth a fuck, or even a wank these days.

  74. its a joke by decora · · Score: 1

    holy cow people took that super serious

    need to stop listening to smodcast

  75. Re: They're just getting a head start on Obamacare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quote those sections to us Mr Smartass.

  76. Re:Bush was a guy you could have a beer with by alexo · · Score: 1

    I was under the impression that was sarcasm.
    The "or something" looks like a dead giveaway.

  77. Re: They're just getting a head start on Obamacare by craigminah · · Score: 1

    So you're saying the Affordable Care Act, aka, "ObamaCare", was at risk of not being signed into law by President Obama? You know what I meant, once Congress voted on it, it was guaranteed to become a law. The fact Nancy said everyone could read the bill AFTER they voted on it was stupid and most likely an effort to avoid revealing that the bill was far too expensive and it authorized the government to extend its tendrils deeper into our daily lives.