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Lawmakers Try To Block Black Box Technology In Cars, DVR Tracking
Lucas123 writes "Lawmakers this week filed bipartisan legislation that would give car owners control over data collected in black box-style recorders that may be required in all models as soon as next year. The move follows a separate proposal made earlier this month that would limit telecommunications companies in tracking viewer activity with new digital video recorders (DVR) technology. The 'Black Box Privacy Protection Act' would give vehicle owners more control over the information collected through a car or motorcycle event data recorders, which the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has proposed be required in all new cars as of 2014. 'For me, this is a basic issue of privacy,' said Rep. Mike Capuano (D-MA). 'Many consumers aren't even aware that this technology is already in most vehicles.' The second, more colorfully titled piece of legislation, is the 'We Are Watching You Act'. The bill was filed in response to reports that national telecommunications companies are exploring technology for DVRs that would record the personal activities of people as they watch television at home in order to target them for marketing and advertising. If implemented, among other things, when the recording device is in use, the words 'WE ARE WATCHING YOU' would appear on the television screen. 'This may sound preposterous, but it is neither a joke nor an exaggeration,' Capuano said. 'These DVRs would essentially observe consumers as they watch television as a way to super-target ads. It is an incredible invasion of privacy.'"
Actually I wouldn't mind having a black box in the car recording everything... IF I have access to the data. I've contemplated wiring up cameras and building a small server to continuously record front and rear views, so if there's an accident or something and there's questions about what happened I can pull up the video and say "Here, watch what happened.". Having had friends who've been dinged for rear-ending someone because they got rear-ended and shoved forward, I think it'd be wonderful to be able to pull up the black box record and prove that I was stationary with the engine at idle and the brake fully applied when the collision occurred and could not have been the cause.
What I object to isn't the black box itself. It's having that black box there and not having any access to it or control over or even knowledge of who's pulling the data from it and when.
I thought they were the lawmakers. Pure window dressing.
"In America, you watch Television.
"In Soviet Russia, television watches YOU!!"''
Yeah, I got a primitive one in my own car. I just opened it up and wired the nvram reset to the ignition. Whenever the car turns off, it fires the reset. It's an amnesiac vehicle now. Of course, not everyone knows how to do this, but hey.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Programming/reprogramming these things.
Judge: Officer Friday, could you please repeat that, I'm not sure I heard it right.
Friday: Yes, your honor. It appears on Tuesday, June 4th, 2013, the suspect's car was orbiting Europa, in clear violation of the directive to leave this one moon alone.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
when will americans well... complain about something? When they pass a law saying that your first born daughter must lose her virginity at age 7 to the president?
I don't know... I haven't been in the US for over 15 years now, but this bullshit I read... It makes you people look like meekest lot out there. And then I read comments about americans laughing at the chaos in brazil. You people should be doing that 24/7, instead of clapping, laughing, stuffing your faces and then changing the channel for more wrasslin
I think the car one will go through easily. I doubt any of them want it to come out how frequently their drivers greatly exceed the speed limits or for black boxes to capture any of the drunken shenanigans they'd otherwise get away with.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2004/05/10/Newspaper-finds-Pa-Gov-Rendell-speeding/UPI-17641084237859/
It seems like law makers keep wanting to find ways to monitor everything we do. Getting a little annoying...what will it take to make them stop?
I agree the DVR thing is bad, but remember they just wanna know if you might want to buy Depends.
Government spying is historically misused to spy on opposition, and is an actual, serious issue.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
They will take the data anyway, all in the public interest of course. They just won't tell you, until it is leaked.
Can they extend that "We are watching you" requirement to include the new Xbox? Pretty please?
Wasn't it Congress that mandated that cars have these black boxes in the first place?
What a bunch of hypocrites
As such, there is no expectation of privacy when driving. It is legal for anyone, LEO or not, to record your behavior.
I am all for the maintenance of actual privacy, but labeling every recording technology as a privacy invasion is couter-productive. See the tale of the The Wolf Who Cried "That Boy Is Watching Me".
Keep harping at this crap and the average person, you know, who has better things to do, is going to tune you out.
I tried to hit troll but it grabbed flamebait, damnit.
A DVR that records the user??
Let 'em try it. The first time they accidentally record some kid getting changed in their bedroom they can all get arrested as pedophiles.
,,,but he got one thing wrong. its not the government who is watching us its corporate America.
im not sure it that's an improvement or not.
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
Government spying is historically misused to spy on opposition, and is an actual, serious issue.
True only in the sense that "spying" is simply data collection that has been deemed by someone to be a "misuse". Are records of birth, residency, employment, income and travel "spying"? If you live under a government that you oppose, then likely yes. Most Americans don't consider birth certificates, tax records and passports to be "Big Brother". Soviet Bloc residents in the 80's probably had a different perspective.
The difference is that Soviet Bloc regimes were felt to be an oppressive regime by most of their residents, while most Americans do not feel that the United States is oppressing them. In fact, the United States is not using all of this alleged "spying" to oppress Americans, other than those with active imaginations and a predilection for "slippery slope" fallacies.
The US in 2013 is not the Soviet Bloc in 1980. It just ain't no matter how loudly people whine about it. More importantly, it is not like any pre-Soviet society. Whether it ever will be, IMO, does not correlate to what the NSA knows about you. "Spying" correlates to oppression, but it does not cause oppression.
These DVRs would essentially observe consumers as they watch television as a way to super-target ads. It is an incredible invasion of privacy.'"
This is what the Kinect and Xbox One do when you watch Television. Targeted advertising is probably a huge revenue stream for Microsoft.
They have a younger demographic of people with disposable income to count on. They could put targeted ads in video games, or send flyers and emails to you from advertisers, since they have your email address. They know when you're home, who's watching what and when.
They already violate long existing basic laws in dramatic fashion (4th amendment much?) I see this as just symbolic pandering when a single secret order from a secret court that can't be challenged because you aren't allowed to talk about it is all it takes to override even the most fundamental laws we have. Actions speak louder than words.
im certain blocking black box technology in cars has nothing to do with, say, the potential to correct a politicians statements after the fact
Good people go to bed earlier.
So when the government tracks your every move without your knowledge or consent, that's okay. When private companies do it letting you know beforehand in a written contract, that's very very wrong.
brb.. ears bleeding...
I keep hearing about how important my privacy is, but next to the last 30 years of declining wages it just sorta seems like a drop of piss in the 'ole bucket. I mean, what good is privacy if I'm so poor I'm easily oppressed through economic means? It just seems like we're all ignoring the elephant in the room on stuff like wealth inequality, banking deregulation, workers rights issues, etc... Why does this matter enough that it makes national news for months when the Wisconsin union busting is long forgotten after just a few weeks?
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Trolls are always trying to light a fire so either is appropriate.
Oh for FSM's sake, please let the xxxxx much? meme die. It is horrible grammar and makes you sound dumb. You cannot put a noun with much and make a complete sentence. It has to be a verb-- Lie much? Jack off much? 4th Amendment is not a verb. "4th Amendment much?" is not a fucking sentence. Technically something like "Lie much?" isn't sentence either. There is a "Do you" that is implied and I hate implied stuff too.
Whine much? YES I DO!
Though they aren't trying to ban them, merely give you control over the data, the effect is the same. You saw what they did there and if I had mod points I'd give you one!
Personally I would rather see only the car company and police be able to access box and only with a physical connection. And of course a warrant.
This way it can't be remotely accessed so no "spying" on you (man some of you are way too paranoid). And it can't be tampered with so no one can accuse you of altering the data.
The bill was filed in response to reports that national telecommunications companies are exploring technology for DVRs that would record the personal activities of people as they watch television at home in order to target them for marketing and advertising. If implemented, among other things, when the recording device is in use, the words 'WE ARE WATCHING YOU' would appear on the television screen.
Doesn't google do this already? Besides displaying the "WE ARE WATCHING YOU" part of course. I don't think most people really care. I use chrome (always in incognito mode for many reasons, privacy is not a significant one), and each time I launch a new, non-incognito window, it asks me to log in.
Don't get me started about the other social media, like facebook, twitter, and the like. I'm not saying this is good or bad. I personally think its potentially very damning to put your whole life on the net. But many people do it, and have no problems with it. I just know in my life, my attitudes and opinions have changed, and I don't want those attitudes and opinions that I now believe were incorrect, wrong, stupid or immature to be documented for all of my life.
-Anonymous Coward, been on slashdot since Chips-n-dips.
neither is appropriate for a sarcastic post mistakenly taken literally.
Instead of making little piss-ant changes that affect only specific and limited circumstances, let's make a strong amendment to property law as a pile driver through all the non-ownership bullshit that's been plaguing us for the past 15-20 years.
If I am making a purchase as a private person (ie: not a business), whatever I've bought is mine. I own it 100%, it's my goddamn property and I will do whatever I fucking want with it (within written law of course)
No amount of shrinkwrap, ckickwrap, stick-on contracts, implied or non-negotiated "agreements" can change that. Contracts, usage policies and EULAs in which you had no bargaining or direct input are automatically null and void.
Any attempt by a manufacturer or producer to actively restrict, limit or deny my access to my own property, whether it be a needlessly fortified mechanism or an encrypted system to which I'm not provided the key, is met with swift punishment. The process for customers to address their grievances should be streamlined and available to the general public with minimal expense to the individual.
Hey, I can dream of a time when corporations won't be the government's puppet master, can't I?
""TomTom Australia says it is planning to sell GPS data collected about its customers' journeys to road authorities and private companies even after it was forced to apologise when that same data was used by Dutch authorities to set speed traps. The revelations, revealed in The Australian Financial Review today, have caused outrage among privacy campaigners and lobby groups who believe it is now necessary for electronic devices to come with special stickers saying whether they are going to track your location and be sold to marketers. I'm starting to think that we're going to need to label every electronic item with a special sticker saying whether it's going to track your location and sell it to marketers or not. But TomTom Australia's vice-president of marketing, Chris Kearney, in a phone interview, rejected the privacy concerns and claims that TomTom was "tracking" users. He conceded TomTom was collecting real-time "timestamped GPS data" of users' journeys but said there were no privacy risks because the data was decoupled from the individual users."" http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/cartech/outrage-over-tomtom-speed-traps-for-motorists-20110506-1ebc2.html
i've heard about this idea where car manufacturers wanted to install black boxes and DVR tracking in vehicles. never did hear much else about the plans. thanks for posting the update.
WE ARE WATCHING YOU
OH DEAR GOD, MAKE IT STOP
Although I'd probably just use a piece of tape.
Shut up, lameness filter. It's a joke, and the caps were a quote from the article.
Spying *is* oppression.Think about it.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
It really makes me angry that we as a society have tolerated the creep of this surveillance society for so long like frogs in a pot while the temperature rises to boiling. You can argue that technology made it inevitable, and you're right, it's probably too late now to get the genie back in the bottle. No one knows history. Few people have actually read "1984". There should've been laws against this passed two decades ago, but noooo, it was sold to us as security, and people will fall over themselves to trade freedom for that.
Since the powers that be have already crafted all sorts of copyright law with really stiff penalties, the stage is set to allow someone to violate their law by pressing the "record" button, then automatically inform the authorities a violation of copyright law is in progress along with an address and name to send the collection notice to.
Congress has REQUIRED black boxes in every vehicle since 1996 with the introduction of OBD-II. In particular, the freeze frame functionality, which captures all the data leading up to an accident. Ugh.
Americans should have no expectation of privacy. "Step out of line, the man come and take you away." Welcome to The Matrix.
I'll try not to be surprised.
I found this the typical bullshit response you get from politicians after something like PRISM (and who the heck knows what other programs they are into) , and the FBI's recent admissions.
"We are going to protect you and your privacy" what there really saying, which should be obvious "we are fuckin morons we have no idea what or how to do our jobs we have been mind fucking you for years and we will continue to do so by going behind your back on certain issues and passing terrible laws, but when we get caught we will dazzle you with another bullshit bill that makes it appear as if we care, way do we do this? because you are fullish enough to re-elect us back in, how do we do this, well Dems and Reps follow the political How to be a Dem or Rep for dummies, in it you will find how we each uses public speech, this speech outlines the stereo types of what a Dem and Rep stands for, but behind closed doors we all accept kickbacks from each other, and lobbyists, we also pretend we are complete idiots when other agencies ask for something, but we are fully aware of the implications of giving them whatever they want "
Television finally watch you?
Motor insurance companies in England are starting to offer lower premiums for people willing to have installed, black box recorders "to monitor their driving behaviour". This is supposed to encourage better driving (how??) so those who volunteer for this before it becomes mandatory can get discounts of up to 20% on top of their no-claims renewals.
What they don't tell you is that whenever the car has power going through its battery, these things have an always-on connection to the cell networks, with a GPS location and route memory. These black boxes have to be "professionally installed" because they bypass the fuse board but they're jacked into the EMS to collect information from there, so there's no way to disconnect them without snipping a wire or ten and rebuilding the EMS. Like new cars don't have enough problems with EMS failures*...
*source: a friend of mine bought a Citroen in 2006, which had three independent EMS systems all running the same stripped NT kernel. Within TWO WEEKS of delivery, it had to go back for three new EMS units because they'd all failed. A WEEK after it was redelivered, it went back again for three more units - the replacements had failed. Thing is, he had not MOVED the car from the time it was redelivered to the time it was collected for the second time. So what exactly caused the EMS failures particularly the second time round? To this day, he still doesn't know. All he did know was that he sent the car back and got a full refund because of the risk of the cascade EMS failure while he was moving. That would have killed whoever was in the car, because in those things the EMS is tied in to the car's central locking, column lock, e-brake and tiptronic gearbox systems.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Constant remote reporting of vehicle location via OnStar, etc. - bad.
Record of speed, braking, etc. for the last few seconds before airbag deployment, readable only if someone plugs a reader into the wreckage - probably OK.
In Capitalist America the TV Watches You!
Didn't you read the GP at all?! He was saying that instead of saying "butthurt much?", you need to say, "did that hurt your butt much?"
I think the answer is "yes", btw.
The only footing I see here in the black box favor is it is monitoring what you do on a public street (which 99% of people are driving on 99.9% of the time).
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
It will not be very long now until all insurance companies require you to plug their black box into your OBD II port or they won't cover you at all. And given that insurance companies are about the lowest form of life, they won't blink before handing over data from your car (in their box remember) to any official that asks. So as usual, this legislative Kabuki dance won't solve anything.
Hired a car the other car; had the 'all singing & dancing' integrated GPS, bluetooth 'infotainment' thingie.
Fired up the music; car's storage already full of thousands of songs...
Fired up the navigation; history full of previous hirers departures & destination points, plus route details.
(Don't know what the "Blue Angel Club" is, but I think I can guess...)
Fired up the phone app; car full of contact names & addresses, helpfully cross-linked to navi history with previous routes & times.
So, in a nightmarish future with this car, you get shunted at the lights, then:
- You get a ticket for every traffic violation you committed since you bought the car, thanks to GPS/Navi history, backed up by black box
- Your spouse divorces you because of your dubious club habits,
- You get fired because someone stole all your customer data, and
- Cherry on the cake, you get ass-raped by the MPAA for having illegal MP3s on your stereo!
Electrical tape over lens.
Done.
So we've got stop light cameras, now black boxes in our cars. So you get home and the next day there's a ticket in the mail from your local authorities because you did 30 in a 25 school zone... Just like they said they'd never make seat belts a "pull over" offense, now it's click it or ticket. The more you give the more they will take, and the more they'll do it from behind a computer screen and not even bother putting cops on the streets for real crime, they'll let it happen, record it all, and mail tickets. Oh and DVR recording you? REALLY? How about turning off that formulaic cop show, and get off the couch once in a while. Since when does watching tv need to be another avenue that you can be spied on? Do you really think as out of control as our government is (sic NSA), that it won't be long before they want all the data on everything the DVRs have recorded? So when you smoke a joint in your front room while watching some cop show or reality crap, guess who'll be knocking at your door? Or sending you a fine in the mail. I seriously don't think I am being paranoid, this will happen. If it's data that gets stored and abused by private companies, how long will it be before the government steps in with clandestine laws and starts monitoring you like Big Brother? Hell, it'll get to where you can't hide drinking your homemade gin in the corner... There isn't going to be a safe spot ANYWHERE at this pace. I guess if you really want to live like sheep in a place where your every move is monitored and reported, fine, I'm sure they'll keep cranking out new episodes of cold case or ncis-someplace, enjoy. I guess I'll keep to walking my dog instead of allowing myself to have my tv watch me back. Not to mention, I know what I like, I don't need marketing to tell me what to buy, but then again, I try not to be another sheep, not your typical fat lazy American that sits on the couch blissfully unaware of the rights being yanked out from underneath everyday. I'm an IT guy and this technology makes me sick.
Mike Capuano is an interesting guy; and I am not just saying that because I met and hung out with his son at a wrestling tournament back in high school.
He was mayor of the city I grew up in, and I remember being totally pissed at the abuse of power when a porn video store opened up, he got is panties in a bunch and stationed a marked police cruiser in front of the place 24/7.
That left a sour taste in my mouth but, I later (after he moved up to federal office) saw him talking positively about civil liberties and emailed him. Not only did he reply, we had an actual email conversation, and he definitely did talk like someone who has some clue about and care for civil liberties.
At the time I had forgotten about the porn store incident, and wished I had thought to ask if his position had changed and how he justified that.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
If the DVR sees me flipping it off every time a commercial comes on, it may realize that I hate commercials and will stop playing them, lol.
Another aspect to consider: If you are not at fault, but were driving a few km/h over the speed limit, when you pull up your video to prove that the other driver was at fault, your speed could be used against you, even if it's totally clear that the other person was at fault. Tip: don't get fooled into buying a dashcam that permanently records your speed. As usual, most people are attracted to the cam models with the most bells and whistles, but some features may work against you, in particular speed recording.
Too bad nobody will be watching the payoffs to the CONgressMEN to look the other way and let be ratified.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.