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US Hacked Chinese University Network
An anonymous reader writes "Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reports that Tsinghua University, widely regarded as the mainland's top education and research institute, was the target of extensive hacking by U.S. spies this year, according to information leaked by Edward Snowden. The information also showed that the attacks on Tsinghua University were intensive and concerted efforts. In one single day of January, at least 63 computers and servers in Tsinghua University have been hacked by the NSA. The university is home to one of the mainland's six major backbone networks, the China Education and Research Network from where internet data from millions of Chinese citizens could be mined. Universities in Hong Kong and the mainland were revealed as targets of NSA's cyber-snooping activities last week when Snowden claimed the Chinese University of Hong Kong had been hacked."
The U.S. government is reportedly hacking into Chinese mobile phone companies as well for access to text messages. In related news, the U.S. has asked Hong Kong to extradite Snowden, and the petition to pardon him has met that 100,000 signature threshold required for an official response from the administration.
http://slashdot.org/submission/2747589/us-pressuring-hong-kong-to-arrest-snowden-while-snowden-has-flown-to-moscow
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Everybody is hacking everyone else, enemies, neutrals, friends allies.
By getting rid of spy agencies, we'd probably be able to do away with more than 99% af all cyber crime.
got nothing to hide, then China has nothing to worry about.
You can argue that exposing NSA's domestic spying operation is for the good of US people, but exposing hacking of a Chinese university serves no US interests whatsoever, it only gives China the moral high ground to continue its cyber attack against the US. If this is not planned by the central committee of the communist party, I don't know what is.
Am I right ??
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
BBC is reporting that Moscow may NOT be the final destination for Snowden
BBC is speculating that Snowden is heading to either Ecuador or Cuba
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Snowden is reportedly heading for Moscow, as we speak
http://slashdot.org/submission/2747589/us-pressuring-hong-kong-to-arrest-snowden-while-snowden-has-flown-to-moscow
Are you going to change your tune now, buddy ?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
It's the reason why China has hacked back.....
Yeah, that's it. Because the NSA and US government has the moral right to hack everybody and lie, even to their own citizens. Hypocrisy up to 9000.
He can run, but he cannot hide. South America is American's backyard. There will be no safe harbor there. Any country that shelters Snowden in SA will feel the full diplomatic weight of the great Empire breathing down their neck.
The whole cyber war agenda makes no sense. You get hacked from a computer in Romania, so you counter-attack Romania? When its just a Russian or Chinese script kiddie that's hacked a Romanian computer? It made far more sense to move critical systems off the internet so they couldn't be hacked! But the agenda pushed was 'cyber-war' with 'cyber-counter-attacks', but 'attack' makes no sense if you don't know how the underlying attacker is and the attack doesn't fix the problem in the first place!
Now the 'cyber-war' agenda makes perfect sense. The cyber war agenda is just cover for cyber-attacks. The cyber attacks are not aimed at hackers, they're aimed at databases. It's all about seizing data.
Snowden a traitor ??
What about the government of the United States which has violated the Constitutions of the United States ???
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Remember, truth is entirely irrelevant. What is important is to not let anyone know you are a hypocrite!
You can argue that exposing NSA's domestic spying operation is for the good of US people, but exposing hacking of a Chinese university serves no US interests whatsoever, it only gives China the moral high ground to continue its cyber attack against the US. If this is not planned by the central committee of the communist party, I don't know what is.
Nice... It's Snowden fault that NSA hacked the Chinese university, isn't it?
Or... having NSA hacking the Chinese is a patriotic gesture now?
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
against China, you couldn't even have this conversation on any Chinese network, that's why US government has the moral high ground against communist China.
a Chinese propaganda officer, so called "50 cents".
You only have the NSA words that China is behind all the hacking and they've proved to be consistently liars, even to Congress, even when under oath:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/seanlawson/2013/06/06/did-intelligence-officials-lie-to-congress-about-nsa-domestic-spying/
I know my data logs always showed USA and Eastern europe as the major sources of attacks to my SSH ports. China was there but not much.
So Occam Razor suggests NSA made another false flag operation, which in turn gave them the $4 billion extra cyber-budget needed to build all those big data centers. How does big data centers fix hacking again? It doesn't. Neither does tapping US networks, or grabbing phone meta data and phone calls.
Remember 'Stuxnet is a wakeup call?'... except we know suspect NSA made Stuxnet to attack Iran!
So try the 'Red Menace' if you will, but their your biggest supplier, and you are their biggest customer in which they've invested a lot of money, and none of these claims make sense.
When he was revealing actions by the US government that were clearly unconstitutional - at least on any reasonable reading of the constitution - then he could legitimately claim the status of whistleblower. But to reveal the intelligence gathering activities of your own government that are aimed at those who are clearly your enemies is an act of treachery. Which is a disaster, because it reduce the odds of the criminal actions of the Bush/Obama government being challenged, let alone punished.
I'm quite sure most people who've ever heard of him consider him being a true american hero.
Especially Edward Snowden is a hero to many young Americans, poll suggests. Edward Snowden performed a public service in leaking information about NSA programs, say 60 percent of Americans age 18 to 29, according to a poll. Tea partyers and liberals also approve.
Our own military brass has spoken publicly about how state sponsored hacking might constitute an act of war and could result in a Kenetic response. In that context the NSA has endangered our nation by potentially starting an unauthorized war with China. When will these dangerous criminals be controlled.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
The real question is - will the US Gov be prosecuted for their crimes ? At least these ones this guy Snowden made public. We can talk about thousands of other crimes against humanity and life later.
Nobody is talking about that.. why ? What the hell is wrong with you people ?
Oh come on, for pity's sake, show a little intelligence, can't you? All governments spy on all nations including their own, regardless of their politics. Every government is certain that it is rightly in power and should rightly remain there "for the greater good"; all those holding power will only grudgingly ever give it up.
If a nation thinks it's some kind of "democracy" then a rigged election might take place; otherwise force will be required, and that always boils down to blood, agony, torture, mass murder, pillage, rape, mutilations, and harm to enormous numbers of human beings both guilty and innocent. Once the revolution / uprising / coup / civil war / extermination / ethnic cleansing / police charge / insurgency / call it whatever you like stumbles to a pause because everybody involved is either dead or sick of the carnage, it's then just a matter of time before it all starts up again.
Now, can we all get over ourselves and talk about something more interesting please?
No it exposes the fact the NSA is endangering us all by escalating an unauthorized war.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
And, of course,only US interests are valid. Exposing wrongdoing is of no value when the wrongdoing is directed against dirty foreigners.
Freedom fries soundbites aside.
1) We're not at war with China
2) The claim that China is hacking critical infrastructure that could kill people makes no sense. Critical infrastructure should NOT be on the net at all, let alone on a net connected to China. So NSA likely lying.
3) If America is hacking China, and hacking can kill people, then NSA hacking can kill Chinese people.
4) So either the 'kill' claim is false, or NSA has declared war on China.
5) How is hacking the Chinese SMS databases some sort of counter attack against Chinese hackers?
6) See point 1.
"Which is a disaster, because it reduce the odds of the criminal actions of the Bush/Obama government being challenged, let alone punished."
If the government was behind General Alexanders NSA actions, then he would have to lie to them in Congress. Obama has hired an anti-surveillance FBI head, which suggests he's been lied to aswell. So the chances of getting the lying toerags prosecuted is as high as it always is.
Of course NSA hacking the Chinese is a patriotic gesture, Chinese government is evil, it's as simple as that.
They killed millions of their own people and get away with it, comparing to them NSA is just child's play. So NSA lied to congress, at least the US has a congress which can catch NSA lying, there's an oath which NSA is supposed to be following. There's no such thing in China, the party determines everything, and if you don't agree with the party, it's the labor camps for you.
It competes by illegally copying other's designs, and keep the wages of their worker really low, the only thing growing in China is their military and pockets of top party leaders.
Go F*ck yourself, there will be a day when Chinese people will hung you outside Tiananman square.
get /phppath ? WootWoot?
"So NSA lied to congress,"
Accepting there's a problem is the first step in any fix. Good.
I don't care less about China. The same applies to whether it was NSA's claim about Russia, or KajiggyStania, or Eurasia. The claim the NSA made no sense, they used the claim to justify the massive data center, we find the massive data center is for domestic spying, ergo Occams Razor suggests the claim was false for the purpose of getting budget.
The idea that we should support the NSA lies (and surveillance of *us*) because KajiggyStania is run by evil Baboon people makes no sense.
The real question is - will the US Gov be prosecuted for their crimes ? At least these ones this guy Snowden made public
Buddy, the 1970's is long gone
The United States of America is no longer the United States of America of yesteryears
Our journalists no longer have the professional zeal as their peers back in the 70's
Our congress is filled with scoundrels that are as bad as the scoundrels in the White House
And most importantly, our judiciary system can no longer be as unbiased as before --- no judge would dare to rule against the man in the White House, no matter who he or she turns out to be
And our court system is no longer unb
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
a Chinese propaganda officer, so called "50 cents".
As opposed to a US propaganda officer that leverages software to allow one person to impersonate multiple people at the same time?
Of course, they couldn't possibly be on US social sites, just like the NSA cannot and does not spy on US citizens. The intelligence service said so and if you can't trust our intelligence agencies, then who can you trust.
Sure. Let's talk about Stasi and how they could only pull spying on much lesser scale. Surely that was also justified?
That is the beauty of being an independent nation. They are able to run it how they see fit and the beauty of not being there is it doesn't impact you.
If you are so concerned with the "millions they killed" why didn't you "liberate" them similar to what happened with Iraq instead of joining forces with them against the Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Tigers)
China is quickly becoming the new US "enemy". Can you name a period in US history where there wasn't an "Enemy" of some type (either real or imagined).
Heck, they even have the "war on drugs". Its catchy as it has the word "war" in there too.
The Cold war was perfect, no actual fighting but still a "war". Now the US needs a new target and a model based on "hacking" works well. It is "cold war part 2" against one of the remaining communist nations.
Haven't you seen enough of the US justice system to know the outcome already? Over time the case will fade out of the spotlight and everyone will forget about it. The US has a very high incarceration rate for petty crimes (mostly a result of the WAR on drugs) but what of the serious ones committed by the wealthy/powerful? Anyone in jail over the US financial meltdown yet?
Joe public gets caught drinking and driving - jail time. "Famous" Hollywood A-Lister, suspended sentence.
"This was the week that changed the world, as what we have said in that Communique is not nearly as important as what we will do in the years ahead to build a bridge across 16,000 miles and 22 years of hostilities which have divided us in the past. And what we have said today is that we shall build that bridge" I think that other corrupt president of the USA said that. Tricky Dick Nixon,
Ok, why is this comment sarcastic and contradicts the expressed meaning with an underlying meaning
For those that need explanation:
1.) he is a saint and needs to be protected, because he reveals efforts against "his own" countrymen
2.) then he is a traitor because he reveals efforts against "other countries" involved
3.) the turning part: the current and former ruler of the country to be criminals that should be prosecuted
4.) the irony one of those supposed criminal rulers is prosecuting the saint-traitor-disaster (a criminal prosecutes a criminal)
From petitions.whitehouse.gov: "In a few rare cases (such as specific procurement, law enforcement, or adjudicatory matters), the White House response might not address the facts of a particular matter to avoid exercising improper influence."
This allows Obama to simply say "We cannot comment on the Snowden petition, since he is subject to an ongoing legal enquiry, and we must avoid exercising improper influence."
Meanwhile, several members of government have already declared Snowden guilty of treason without trial - no improper exercise of influence there, right?
Anyone with thoughts about how the petition might have been worded to avoid this loophole?
exposing hacking of a Chinese university serves no US interests whatsoever
I don't agree I think it serves this interest of every citizen, who wants their vote to count, who expects to have representation in our representative democracy. During the cold war, if you had asked a military commander or the President, "Do we conduct espionage and or spying operations against the Soviet Union" they wouldn't have gone into detail but they would have answered that we do.
We were able to have a sane public debate about our policy position toward the USSR.
What have today is all this secret crap. If prior to last week you'd ask "Do we conduct espionage and or spying operations against the People's Republic of China", the nearest thing to honesty you would have gotten is "I can't answer that' but most likely you'd get some propaganda about how they are a valued trade partner. This is not how a free society is supposed to work, you can't have franchise if you don't know what your representatives actually do.
Seriously if you look at the situation with any objectivity at all there is no way the NSA is on the side of "truth justice and the American way" here. Supporting what they have been doing is nothing more than a response to fear, which is sad in a place that is supposed to be the "land of the free and the home of the brave."
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Spying on foreign nations is the NSA's business. If you don't like that, then it is something to take up with your representitive, but I would have to ask why all of a sudden you have a problem with it, since that has ALWAYS been its business. The NSA is the US's signals intelligence agency. It's reason to be is to spy on the electronic communications of foreign powers.
Now, you can argue the US shouldn't spy at all if you like, but you do have to realise that would put the US at basically the only major nation that didn't. More or less all nations have intelligence agencies. The UK has the SIS (and the Security Service to an extent), France has the DGSE, Canada has the CSIS, Switzerland has the NDB, Finland has the SUPO, China has the MSS, Russia has the SVR (and realistically the FSB, FSO and GRU as well). Nations spy on each other. They have for a long, LONG time.
The flap with the NSA is that they have been spying on American citizens. That is something they are not supposed to do. While some countries, like China, have a unified intelligence apparatus (the MSS is their spy agency, secret police, all that jazz), the US purposely has divided agencies. The NSA, CIA, etc are not supposed to collect intelligence on Americans. That is only supposed to be done by law enforcement, and then only in compliance with court orders.
That the NSA would spy on other nations is not only unsurprising, it is the reason they exist.
In terms of China being an enemy, well you can't really think in those terms. Nations don't have friends and enemies so much as they have interests. As such other nations can align or not align with those interests to different degrees. If you mean an enemy as a nation they are at war with then no, but of course they US hasn't officially gone to war in a rather long time. However China is certainly a nation the US would have many reasons to watch. They are quite authoritarian, the military is heavily mixed up in their economy (I'm talking direct ownership of things), they have imperialistic ambitions and they have a lot of weapons. Thus it should not be surprising if the US has interest in watching them.
Also if you think the US is irrelevant, you need to wake up and have a look at world affairs. The US is an extremely influential country in a tremendous amount of ways. It is the only military superpower at the moment, it controls the world's reserve currency, it has the largest economy in the world, it exports culture (in the form of books, TV movies, video games, that kind of thing) like no other in history and so on. You might wish the US was not relevant, but it is, very much so.
Also it isn't small. Buy a globe. Or use a search engine. The US is the 4th largest country in the world by land area, and 3rd largest by population. If that is "too small" by your metric, then I don't want to know what you rank most countries (which are, by definition, much smaller).
Oh yeah, cyber attack = attack = retaliation with force is justified.
So, when will the rest of the world accept America's declaration of war and defend itself?
EU? But we're not talking about US hacking EU here, we're talking about US hacking China, and why Mr. Snowden reveals this. Anyway I'm not trying to justify PRISM, it is you who is trying to justify Mr. Snowden's actions.
*Attacks* on a nation with which you are not at war are fine you say. I am sorry ? So if , say, germany, starts to put bomb in the USA you are fine ? If Canadia start cyber attacking the USA you are fine ? And if mexico decide to smuggle weapon to drug dealer in the USA with the intent of terror or formenting civil war you are fine ?
WHat the FUCK man ? You are FINE with YOUR governement ATTACKING other governement not in war with ?
Spying is accepted. Spying is a fact of life. ATTACKS be it cyber or normal , onto sovereign governements are NOT acceptable. The same way I support USA defending themselves against chinese cyber attack and call the chinese on it, I cwill call the US governement a bunch of "illegal combatant" and support the chinese agaisnt that attack from the NSA.
expression? Wait...
Do you even see how ridiculous your argument is? Just because you have something against NSA and US government doesn't give you the right to trivialize the pain Chinese people suffered under the communist dictatorship.
So in your opinion many Americans are outraged at the NSA only because the NSA is controlled by their government but really don't mind being spied on by GCHQ, the SVR, the BND, ...
I think the current protests are mostly aimed at spying on civilian targets in general (i.e. the entire field of undirected signal collection), regardless of the nationality of the one doing the spying or the one being spied upon. Why would I feel better about China spying on me than I would about my own government spying on me?.
Morals and ethics are no exception. Also note I'm not defending NSA's PRISM program, I'm questioning Snowden's motive of revealing US hacking Chinese university, these two are totally unrelated.
When did China become an enemy of the US? As far as I know it's a competitor, ....
Competitor? No, they are more like a partner: they supply very cheap labor to American companies.
Japan and Germany and the rest of the EU are competitors. They provide their own products, hire their people (at a higher wage than US) and also off-shore to China and other third world countries, and price their goods the same or higher than US companies - and kick American companies asses in a few markets.
China is not a competitor - they are a supplier - sucking the life out of us while stealing IP. Same goes for India - another supplier of cheap white collar labor.
I'm not saying exposing PRISM makes Snowden a Chinese spy, I'm saying exposing the US hacking of Chinese university makes him a Chinese spy. If you have argument for or against PRISM you can argument with someone else, I'm not talking about PRISM here.
a free country, typical Chinese propaganda trick. The very fact that this software is: a) revealed by a US Senate committee; b) its existence published by a news paper; c) its developer and customers answered questions and criticism proves US is much better than your communist dictatorship. Just because you control all your newspapers doesn't mean we couldn't find your dirty secrets, there's plenty of Weibo gets out before being deleted by censors, you can't fool your people forever.
Let's see... five-digit user ID, excellent karma... The very image of a 50 cent army member.
Russia's Interfax news agency is reporting a source at Aeroflot airline says there is a ticket in Snowden's name for a flight from Moscow to Cuba.
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
have to attack a school now
Because they can't do anything about you. The reason your own government is more of a concern than foreign governments is they have power over you whereas foreign governments do not. Now yes, technically foreign governments can go after someone, like North Korean kidnappings or the US drone program, however by and large they have little control over citizens of other nations.
In terms of looking at civilians, you think that is new? Most people in a country are civilians, as in not in the military. That doesn't mean they aren't involved in things a nation might take interest in. A simple example would be spies. You think they are military officers? No, they are regular civilians, or often diplomats.
Also in some countries, like China, the line is considerably less clear. The PLA outright owns many industries, and has their hands in many others, so even were you to take the line that spying is only for military things, well that would be rather unclear there.
That aside, I've seen little enough protesting period, and none that seems to be people mad about civilian spying. It is DOMESTIC spying that seems to bother them. They are mad that the NSA is (allegedly) spying on Americans which they are not supposed to do according to the law. I haven't seen any protests complaining about foreign spy agencies doing it, and they do it, make no mistake.
they'd parade him about how easy it was to buy him off and how easy it is to breach stupid rank 31 math ranked america is.
Just another proof that Chinese propaganda officers is rampant on this site.
ya windows form home and my pc ) well i want to sock you in da face
You seem to be in danger of having a "mycleanpc" problem. You might want to be careful about that.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
since it doesn't help his case against PRISM, it hurts US interests and has no benefit for the US people, so the only conclusion I can draw is he is working for the Chinese side.
As for your question, does it even need an answer? In WWII, Japan bombed US, which is bad not only for US but for the free world; then the US bombed Japan which is very good not only for the US but also for all the people suffering under Japanese occupation. So yeah, an action can be good or bad depending on the circumstances.
hoot and holler like an ape, it still doesn't change the fact you're siding with the enemy of the American people: our own government.
Because they have nuclear capability that can reach the US, is taking a lot of jobs from the US workers and held tons of US debt, they are also polluting the air and water like crazy, all of these can affect you. Also we're not talking about any NSA claims here, we're talking about Snowden's claim and what this particular claim says about him.
Interestingly most of your post has nothing to do with what I said or the article itself, you're just trying to blacken the US as much as possible, good try
"independent nation are able to run it how they see fit" is the same logic the communist party used to fend off human right criticisms. By this logic, it is ok for Nazi to use concentration camps or for Japanese to murder entire cities, I sure hope this is not what you meant.
At least he stopped taking it up the ass unlike you.
Captcha: bargains
nice try but the world long since passed the 5-0's where you can jsut yap off whatever and everyone believes you...thank your dark hollywood for it. we are all growing up not trusting you....and we all are not listening to a word you say as truth....
hollywood is running the usa atm..its a communist organization that doesn't like to compete in a free market. Lots a gays homos and im not sure whats...drugs booze abuse and whatever ...and of course lots a lawyers...lawyes lawyers....yup thats how to run a nation.
China is on the opposite side of America, so unless you visit China, it doesn't affect you. They don't have a habit of kidnapping/assassinating people in another country.
US can put you in the no fly list, put you in jail without a trial etc. if for some reasons the TLA think you are a "terrorist" (TM).
Nice try...
Most likely he defected due to ideological reasons, like some on this site.
Not even their own citizens believe it, so what Snowden says carry a lot of weight. PRISM's problem is domestic spying, I don't think anyone object spying on foreign nations, especially a nation like China.
is unauthorized war? I see NSA is protecting US interests by hacking into Chinese government's networks, you do realize Tsinghua University is owned by the Chinese government do you?
Hacking the Chinese government is a good thing for both US and Chinese citizens.
I think that we would be stronger without secrets. If everything was held to the light of day and we had to take all of our actions based on a common knowledge of the facts (which the "enemy" knows as well) then our actions would ultimately result in real solutions. You can't expect simpletons and politicians to get this though.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
It makes a nice change.
In a closed room full of children, what steps would one fat kid need to take to ensure that he eats as much as all the others combined. Does this seem like a reasonable precursor to harmony within the room?
Requiem for the American Dream
It was crap back in those days too.
So when China is "attacking us with cyberwar!", why not SHUT THE FUCK UP and realise that China have an equivalent to the NSA JUST as validly" Spying on foreign nations is the TLA's business.".
No, when it's you doing it, it's all "what's the fuss bro?" when it's done to you, squeal like a little girl.
"If you call China a rival already, why do you complain when China hacks you?"
And if you call China a rival already, why are you keep borrowing money from them? You are asking your a$$ to be phucked.
New Economic Perspectives
Is it hacking when you're just stealing your own ideas back?
those APTs really are everywhere, US officials weren't lying on that part.
also i'll just leave a "WMD" here. This was to be expected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater
Regardless of what the NSA's mission and purpose are they allowed to violate US law in order to accomplish it? And if they are allowed to violate US laws in the course of their job which laws if any are sacrosanct?
If a US citizen travels to another countries jurisdiction and does something which would not be legal for them to do in the US they can still be held accountable in our courts. So where is the NSA's authorization to violate our own laws and which laws specifically?
HARD
You are nothing and we have more advanced military capabilities than the USA. See also 20 years ahead of missile defense also.
"so you're providing a service that *might* be useable to terrorist ... you have to enable .. and start building datacenters ... ...).
us to see whats going on, thus you have to retain all possible information or you're un-american,
a potential terorist lover and we will make your life difficult by all means"
okay okay, says, microsoft, google, yahoo, facebook etc
"it's so we can provide a better service to our users (and not get ass-kicked by the
if you want to blame someone, blame the advertising companies."
maybe?
Let's clarify; I don't have a problem with the NSA doing its job as an intelligence agency. I DO have a problem with Snowden removing the 'deniability' that allows everyone to pretend it isn't happening, and so cause damage to foreign relationships. He was totally right to challenge the NSA's spying on Americans, but to reveal his country's secret intelligence activities was far more reprehensible AND DAMAGES HIS CREDIBILITY OVER HIS REAL WHISTLEBLOWING. Those who weren't sure whether to attack the NSA for its criminality, or defend it for its alleged good works are more likely now to line up to defend it. At the margins this matters...
Why do people waste time signing those White House petitions? They always give some bullshit answer as to why they are opposed to the will of the people, it changes nothing.
but exposing hacking of a Chinese university serves no US interests whatsoever, it only gives China the moral high ground to continue its cyber attack against the US. If this is not planned by the central committee of the communist party, I don't know what is.
I'd say it does. Its like the diplomatic cable leaks, you can't be humiliated if you didn't do anything humiliating. We violated various treaties by hacking into the networks of a sovereign state. This isn't "good behavior". We also really can't bitch about China doing it to us anymore, since it is a game we like to play too. This is our government misbehaving, and it deserves to have its know rubbed in it a bit.
I'm all for everything coming out, at this point. National Security be damned. We need a clean slate, and we need heads; just to restore any modicum of faith in our masters (which is how they must see themselves). We, the people (ostensibly the real "masters"), need to see the whole mess exposed, so we can make a fair judgement and reckoning of ourselves.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
So, all those attempts to break into our networks were really the fault of the Americans, and not the Chinese?
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
Why would I feel better about China spying on me than I would about my own government spying on me?
I'm not American, and my outsider observation of American logic is this:
1. No nation should spy on their own civilians.
2. Other nations should never spy on Americans.
3. USA can spy on civilians of other nations.
i.e. as long as the Great American People are shielded from harm (or so they think), nobody really cares what the USA government does abroad.
So yes, nobody cares about what the USA government does to "them" if they're not Americans...
Replace "spy" by things like "illegal arrest", "unfair trial", "torture", whatever, and it still holds.
I didn't say it was logical or hypocrisy free. I'm actually surprised that apparently you're not aware of this.
Don't quote me on this.
Russia's Interfax news agency is reporting a source at Aeroflot airline says there is a ticket in Snowden's name for a flight from Moscow to Cuba.
He's probably going to take some time off, maybe do a little fishing in Guantanamo Bay.
Since the founding of Communist China, the general approach to dissent has tended to involve either the threat or use of jail cells or guns.
So far the communist government has managed to kill 70,000,000 of its citizens.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Well there is something to be said for keeping it within your jurisdictions.
The Americans has done 70,000,000 worldwide.
I think I can actually defeat your 70,000,000 with two words... Citation needed.
Oh sure there was some wannabe "historian" in the same public washroom gay sex club as yourself.
And I think he was parading 60,000,000 (but obviously this was last year's number).
For wannabes like yourself not good with numbers, 70,000,000 over 30 years or so works out to be about 5,000 incremental deaths per day.
Now China is roughly the same size in area as the USA, if you have 100 incremental deaths in every state (from New York to California), everyday, 24/7/365, it's going get a little more citation than some wannabe "historian".
There are no shortage of Chinese nationals here in the west who have live through the heights of any revolution in China, oddly enough I have yet to talk to anybody who have any clue about your claims of 100 daily incremental deaths everyday in their home regions in China (which I attribute to communist mass brain washing, that they have absolutely no clue people were being killed around them...they were mostly just pissed their careers got interrupted).
Sooo... those citation could resolve a lot of questions.
The Stasi would jail you if you wanted to leave the country, form a new political party, make jokes about the communist party bosses.
The American government surveillance is aimed at preventing innocent Americans and people in other countries from being killed by al Qaida and its associates.
It is quite odd that you can't see a meaningful difference there.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
People need to not be confused as to why Snowden should be tried.
a) Leaking information to american citizens about american spying by the american government, which they shouldn't be doing, may of been the right thing to do
b) Leaking information about american government spying on other governments, which face the facts they should be doing, is most definitely the wrong thing to do
No matter what Snowden does now, having leaked information about anything other than what is against the constitution is treason and he should be jailed/hanged.
You might think that God *WANTED* Castro in power :D
Given the number of CIA attempts to assassinate him, the fact that he lived to be old and ripe and appeared to die of natural causes...
Funny how it's only true if it's something beneficial to your side, and you happen to be religious, eh
Anybody who thinks the US isn't held together by force, really hasn't read our history.
Go read about Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion for the earliest examples I can find of both Pre-Republic and Post-Republic actions by the government.
The only difference being the former being funded directly by the 'corporations' whereas the latter was funded federally and included conscripted soldiers.
Well, the official line of stasi sounded about the same as official line that you quoted.
Then comes the reality of drone killings, guantanamo and so on.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa is an example of a Snowden sourced document that provides more information about the operation of arguably legitimate intelligence gathering activities than is necessary to prove breach of the constitution.
Thank you for offering further evidence for my long held suspicion that a very large proportion of what passes for literary criticism is bovine faecal material. For the record I was entirely serious in my comment; I would argue that successful intelligence gathering by non-aggressive countries which undermines the actions of those seeking to damage the questing country is a good thing. For example a plot to land guns and explosive for use in domestic terrorism that is caught as a result of sigint is an unambiguously good thing. Where it gets more iffy is the use of it to maximise your negotiating position in bargaining with people you claim as allies, and its use to provide technical secrets to your commercial firms, as the French were caught doing in the 1980s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#France_and_the_United_States is an absolute no-no.
> Now, you can argue the US shouldn't spy at all if you like, but you do have to realise that would put the US at basically the only major nation that didn't.
That is not even remotely true. At least if you apply a definition that is reasonable for this discussion. While it may be true that UK, Israel and Russia (maybe France and Germany to some extent) in addition to the US have proper James Bond-level intelligence agencies for spying on foreign nations and countries like China, Iran and North Korea might be trying real hard, there is a significant drop after that. You mention agencies like SUPO and NDB in your comment. The extent of SUPO's foreign espionage is co-operating with foreign police to map international criminal activity. It has absolutely no jurisdiction from the finnish government to spy on foreign powers. With very few exceptions this is the case with most countries, the other possibility being a complete lack of funds for such activity.
This was very evident for instance when the attack to Iraq was about to happen. While UN weapons inspections might have been something you considered a joke at the time for the overwhelming majority of the world it was the way things work and that information was what was relied on.
Our government has become what it fought against in WW2, we are now a fascist nation governed by a fascist totalitarian secret government with little or no oversight by those who are governed.
"The U.S. government is reportedly hacking into Chinese mobile phone companies as well for access to text messages."
Relay guys, they just want metadata.
They will dismiss the petition before they capture Snowden by saying that he cannot be pardoned since he hasn't been convicted of anything.
It's about time!
My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!
The American government surveillance is aimed at innocent US citizens and people in other countries under the false pretense that they are aiding the hypothetical al Quaeda.
FTFY. It's quite odd you didn't notice your mistake. Oh, wait. You lied.
Captcha "spilled".
--42x10
Also, fuck you, cold fjord.
The Black Book of Communism
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
By the way -
The Americans has done 70,000,000 worldwide.
Utter nonsense.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell