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Pre-Dawn Wireless Emergency Alert Wakes Up NYC

New submitter SkiTee94 writes "Many people, perhaps millions, in and around NYC were loudly awoken shortly before 4am this morning by an activation of the Wireless Emergency Alert system. As the New York Times is reporting, the alert was related to an ongoing search for a missing child. Given that the alert asked people to look out for a 'Tan Lexus ES300' with NY Plate 'GEX1377,' many New Yorkers are questioning the logic of waking up the whole city to ask them to look for a car. Normally such alerts are reserved for road-side signs. While emergency authorities have yet to give a precise reason for why the decision was made to wake up the city, many have taken the step of deactivating these alerts to avoid future jolting mid-slumber alarms (likely not the intended result of last night's exercise)."

382 comments

  1. Alert by alphatel · · Score: 5, Informative

    The actual alert was even more cryptic due to texting truncation
    "LIC/GEX1377 NY 1995 Tan Lexis"
    Kind of a pre-dawn WTF. Told my wife it was my boss asking for directions to the strip club. Did NOT get a free massage.

    --
    When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
    1. Re:Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      That would be "lett" though.

    2. Re:Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, Lett.

    3. Re:Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Kind of a pre-dawn WTF."

      Every single person that actually answered the phone verified their actual, physical location to whomever sent the alert.

      "Did NOT get a free massage."

      You sure about that?

    4. Re:Alert by porges · · Score: 1

      Those alerts aren't phone calls, so you don't answer them. (Well, maybe at 4AM I might be too confused...) The phone just beeps REALLY LOUDLY.

    5. Re:Alert by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2

      There's an easy answer for that- set phone on vibrate before going to bed. No need to block anything.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    6. Re:Alert by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

      Depends where you are but the emergency alert settings don't respect vibrate or noise around here. Which makes sense. If it's an emergency alert, for a real emergency, people beyond just the cell phone operator should want to know about it.

      We got one where I am a few days ago for a tornado warning. In that context the phone having a loud panic attack seems prudent - tornado incoming right bloody now.

      Emergency alerts should be for just that though "if you're getting this you need to take action in response RIGHT NOW". 4am looking for a license plate is probably unlikely to rise to that level, unfortunate as an abduction may be.

    7. Re:Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually that would be LLET.

    8. Re:Alert by cdwiegand · · Score: 1

      EAS is a one-way technology sent to everyone on the same tower, in a broadcast-type system. Get with the times. You didn't verify anything.

      --
      . Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep. Watch your coworkers go nuts.
    9. Re:Alert by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

      At least the ones we get down here are more useful.
      Amber alerts come in as texts. This one was the first I ever heard. It was a loud screeching, and this message popped up on the screen:

      "Tornado Warning in this area til 7:15PM EDT"

      I was driving home, and had the radio on. I could see a nasty storm a few miles away. The warning beat the broadcast radio EAS message by about 5 minutes. The radio broadcast said where the tornado was spotted. It was only about 5 miles away.

      The next day, I asked coworkers who were in the area. No one else got the alert. I guess the system still has some serious bugs.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    10. Re:Alert by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Really? With no configuration by the user, it just decides on it's own that it will beep louder than normal? Why not just treat it like a IM message or something, showing up even if you don't have IMs? Is this all phones, smart and dumb and in between, do you need to download an app first, or it's a provider supplied app that you can disable, or..? It sounds really fishy to me.

    11. Re: Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some Marxist hacker you are. Let me go set my phone to mute and take pictures. Surely there shouldn't be loud, obnoxious, zooming noises if I press the screen to refocus. And surely there won't be a loud shutter click upon taking the picture ! That wouldn't make sense at all, seeing how my phone doesn't even have a shutter (let alone a lens zoom)

      ZZZRREGGG. DIDINK. CLICK

    12. Re:Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except it continues to vibrate incessantly until you manually turn it off. I also shouldn't have to set my phone to vibrate because the government might send me messages I don't want at 4:00 AM.

    13. Re:Alert by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      There's an easy answer for that- set phone on vibrate before going to bed.

      If you don't want the phone to wake you up to the point that you set it so that you'll never know it rang, why not turn it OFF?

    14. Re:Alert by Meski · · Score: 1

      I set phone on vibrate before going to bed for ... other reasons...

  2. Did they find the Lexus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's what we really want to know.

    1. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Please, at least take the time to read the summary. It clearly mentions an "indented result", so, naturally, the car must have crashed and thus been discovered as such.

      Either that, or Slashdot is having an unprecedented issue with proofreading the article summaries.

    2. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by dr_dank · · Score: 5, Funny

      Amber keeps getting into strangers cars. When will she ever learn?

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    3. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      But the candy's so good!
      -- Amber

    4. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The "Amber alert" system was in response to a stranger kidnapping. They believed this boy was abducted by his mother. It shouldn't even qualify. But it did. If the police hadn't sent out all available alarms and they found the child dead as part of a murder-suicide (as they were fearing), the police would have been blamed. But send out an alert, and they are blamed. What would you have them do? And what should they do if many disagree with your opinion?

    5. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by nschubach · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The same thing we did before the Amber alert system. The Police would do their jobs and put out an APB hit the streets and keep a lookout for a specific car. Alerting an entire city and "fear mongering" is apparently only a recent event.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    6. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      But send out an alert, and they are blamed.

      Problem is they sent out a completely worthless alert to an incredibly broad group of people.

    7. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's waking a whole city for the picture on the milk carton and in the post office.

    8. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by ai4px · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ..... including the person driving the Lexus in question.

    9. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unprecedented? You must be new here... first visit new.

    10. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by Kleen13 · · Score: 1

      But the candy's so good! -- Amber

      I always thought Amber was the one with the sweet, sweet candy. Huh. Mixed that up somehow.

      --
      That sinking feeling deep in your gut when you KNOW you screwed up bad summed up with: {head desk} {head desk}
    11. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      It's true, nobody's been named (at birth) "Amber" since some time in 1989.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    12. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Like the person didn't already know?

    13. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by libtek · · Score: 1

      "time to steal a new car..."

      --
      Unequivocally the realest of the realz...
    14. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      When they don't alert everyone with radio broadcasts and children are later found dead, the police is asserted to be ineffective and bumbling Keystone Cops.

    15. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by maccodemonkey · · Score: 1

      Alerting an entire city and "fear mongering" is apparently only a recent event.

      Not that I don't disagree this text was probably overkill, but "fear mongering" might be the wrong phrase to describe a text trying to locate an actually missing girl.

    16. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      They didn't steal the one in question. Unlike the movies, people don't steal cars every 2 blocks to ensure they aren't followed. She was a mentally ill person who kidnapped a child they weren't allowed to be alone with for the safety of the child, not an international criminal mastermind with 30 years training in stealing cars.

    17. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by libtek · · Score: 1

      Unlike the movies, people don't steal cars every 2 blocks to ensure they aren't followed. ...not an international criminal mastermind with 30 years training in stealing cars.

      Right. 30 years of training to bash/coathanger a window, and pop the ignition. More like 10 minutes. Only did it once, to my own vehicle. 10 minutes. I think *you* watch too many movies... Plus you wouldn't do it every 2 blocks. Just every time the Wireless Emergency Alert went off. LOL, that was the post I was responding to.

      --
      Unequivocally the realest of the realz...
    18. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by Captain+Hook · · Score: 1

      Not that I don't disagree this text was probably overkill, but "fear mongering" might be the wrong phrase to describe a text trying to locate an actually missing girl.

      Was there any indication at the time through the alert system that this was just a missing child case?

      Using something like this system to find a car, especially at 4am but without providing any context would immediately have me thinking that the car was a serious threat, on a city wide scale. Using such overkill without providing context would make me immediately think the car was needed to prevent a very large terrorist attack.

      Fear Mongering seems to be the right phrase in this case.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    19. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by TheHonch · · Score: 1

      I thought amber alerts were referring to the color

    20. Re: Did they find the Lexus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, people who fail to understand sarcasm are not.

    21. Re:Did they find the Lexus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THIS!
      I wonder if the entire idea was to scare the shit out of the person driving the Tan Lexis (sp)!

      They're driving down the road, with Amber in the trunk, and the alert goes off. Screeeeeech! Driver veers off the road, rolls the Tan Lexis (sp), and the trunk pops open. Out pops Amber, runs to the nearest Bodega for help. The shopkeepers screams at her to leave, because he's not really open, and he chases off kids at night who just want to steal energy drinks. She walks back out on to the sidewalk in NYC and the kidnapper spots her, chases her down and puts her in a new (stolen) car's trunk.

      Tomorrow at 4am:
      "Red Toyota Korrola, Lic XPGYT9R" blasts out to all 8 million inhabitants of NYC again.

      (sorry for the Corolla typo... I had to give props to whoever mistyped the word "Lexus" in the original Amber Alert)

  3. Government at it's finest by Sparticus789 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You would think in a city with thousands of cameras and surveillance assets, they could find a single car. It's not like the car could get very far, it's New York!

    --
    sudo make me a sandwich
    1. Re:Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't get their game, since they have automated plate readers already in use, why can they not find the car? The only possibilities that come to mind are that they don't want to advertise the existence of the readers, but that doesn't seem likely as anyone who cares knows about them. So the only other thing I can think of is that it might be another case where one department is not sharing nicely with another. Not claiming I know the actual reason, just pondering out loud.

    2. Re:Government at it's finest by ildon · · Score: 1

      NYC is not London.

    3. Re:Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      More likely the plate readers don't work for shit but they hope everyone doesn't realize that so when the prosecutor puts Joe Expert on the stand to tell everyone how the plate readers saw the guy's car at the scene they won't think to question whether the testimony really proves anything, or if the plate readers even identified the correct car.

      Sort of like DNA evidence, and how prosecutors and their "expert" witlesses pushed it as the holy grail of proof, up until people started using it to prove someone else committed the crime and now suddenly prosecutors openly assert that DNA can't prove jack shit (when they're not in a courtroom snowing over 12 angry idiots with CSI technobabble).

    4. Re:Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They may have traffic cams, but the ones with enough resolution to make out an actual plate instead of pixels are only triggered by red light runners. (And that's only at intersections with red-light cams.)

    5. Re:Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they're all disparate systems. It doesn't help anyone preserve their right to privacy, but it sure helps the criminals.

    6. Re:Government at it's finest by Sparticus789 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Duh, but they still have at least 2,397 cameras placed on the streets of the city. So "thousands" is correct.

      --
      sudo make me a sandwich
    7. Re:Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      More likely, they couldn't be sure the car was actively driving around in an area where a fucking plate reader would be able to capture its plate, so they asked for people to be on the lookout for the car - parked on the street, parked in an alley, parked in a garage, etc.

      Tard.

    8. Re:Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow; apparently that is just Manhattan.

    9. Re:Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is just Manhattan as well. That does not include the multitude of cameras in the other 4 boroughs (where most of the NYC residents actually live) or on bridges or across the river in NJ.

    10. Re:Government at it's finest by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Manhattan is probably pretty heavily monitored, but most of it is private and so not tied together. I'm not sure you could read a license plate from most of the cameras in any case. The other boroughs are much less monitored, and don't have nearly the traffic of Manhattan (though stay off the Cross Bronx "Expressway"!).

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    11. Re:Government at it's finest by bdwebb · · Score: 1

      Goes to show how effective those cameras are for real crime. High five to wasting taxpayer money NYC!

    12. Re:Government at it's finest by cusco · · Score: 1

      If it's a Lexus there's a 99 % chance the driver has a cell phone, they could locate the thing within a couple of blocks.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    13. Re:Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, but most of those are private security cameras. The cops need either a warrant or consent of the owner to look at the recordings.

      Kind of different from the UK where law enforcement is operating the cameras themselves, and they can look at whatever they want in real time for any reason.

    14. Re:Government at it's finest by edman007 · · Score: 1

      They work just fine, but require a decent camera. The issue is they are generally not linked to systems that do this. The metermaids have them to find ticketable cars, the red light cameras have the software (though probably don't run it real time), and the toll booths have it. The issue is they are all configures to ticket someone for one specific thing, they are tied into the system right there and generally only scan when an event happens. The cameras watching the sidwalks are just not setup to do this, and many of them are not linked into systems that can scan the plates anyways. In the end it's a money issue, the people who own the software probably want something ridiculous for their software/

    15. Re: Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's more like they want to test the giant voice system to condition the citizens. It's all under the guise that they are trying to get the public to buy in to that they can prevent crime before it happens even in people that could careless what the law is. It's the same security theater that the TSA and body scanners is, but for some reason we have more and more masses believing the bullshit that this is what is needed to be "safe". Meanwhile there are other more life threatening events are 100 times more likely to happen that nothing is done or said about because either a) politicians are in the back pockets of people that make money off said threats and b) there is no angle to implement some false security system to instill fear and make the citizens feel oppressed

    16. Re: Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, thats exactly the case in London. Most cameras are private.

    17. Re: Government at it's finest by OptimalCynic · · Score: 1

      It's a text system, you wanker, not a voice system. Put your tinfoil hat back on, the Wifi is getting into your brain again.

    18. Re:Government at it's finest by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      The plate readers work just fine. But they are not real-time. Everything gets stored for later perusal just like all our phone calls do. It's not for making us safer, it so they can find dirt on anybody that they want to find dirt on. Just go back and look through the last 10 years worth of phone calls, plate movement records, credit card sales slips, facial recognition hits, etc and make anyone look like a terrorist.

      "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." -- Cardinal Richelieu

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    19. Re: Government at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not like the UK where they have plate readers mounted on bridges and signs. Here the readers are mounted on police cars to the tune of $20k each. It would take a week to scan every car in the city, assuming no one moved their car during that time.

  4. I disabled mine months ago by intermodal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can barely keep track of the cars around me in some traffic patterns, much less take the time to read each license plate. And seriously, a tan Lexus? Here in Texas, it's inevitably "white Ford Explorer" or "Blue black Chevy pickup" or some other horribly common vehicle. Maybe if kidnappers start driving more distinct cars, like an old VW painted like a ladybug or something, I'll be a little more alert to it.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    1. Re:I disabled mine months ago by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      Hmm, maybe that would work as a parole condition. You'd have to get a distinct colour for your car from then on.

      Oh wait, kidnapping is almost always a relative. Never mind, I guess it wouldn't work.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    2. Re:I disabled mine months ago by jbmartin6 · · Score: 2

      I wonder if you can get a free pass for any reckless driving charges by explaining that you were looking around for the tan Lexus instead of watching in front of you. Wait a second, this whole thing must be a trap since we know using handheld electronics while driving is illegal! ENTRAPMENT!

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  5. Phone alerts by Valdrax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While emergency authorities have yet to give a precise reason for why the decision was made to wake up the city, many have taken the step of deactivating these alerts to avoid future jolting mid-slumber alarms (likely not the indented result of last night's exercise).

    I don't live in NYC, but my phone settings were recently updated by AT&T to display Amber Alerts and weather alerts. The very first moment one of these went off while I was driving, I decided to shut it off forever as a menace. After all, I noticed that I wasn't the only driver wobbling a little in their lane right after it happened.

    If I was woken in the early morning by one of these things, I just hope I'd have the presence of mind not to throw the damned thing out a window!

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    1. Re:Phone Alerts by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      Do none of your phones have an OFF button? You know, turn the phone off at night or must you be reachable 24/7/365?

      Many have started relying on the cellphone as their only phone. Between high minute offerings and how more electronic forms of communication have replaced the phone call.. it's not outlandish. Though you're asking for trouble if you have an emergency to phone in while the cells are down (like during hurricane Sandy).

      So people tend to leave the phone on and plugged in overnight for use the next day, and take advantage of the alarm clocks feature.

      So it going off early as heck would be a problem: on, plugged in, waiting to wake up the users a few hours later.

      In this case, the new "feature" added to some phones recently are on my default and most don't even know about the feature or that it was pushed to them.

      I think they even make the town if you put the phone on silent... but I'm not sure about that one.

    2. Re:Phone alerts by swb · · Score: 1

      I've gotten 3 weather alerts already. Living in Minneapolis I question the value of sending Flash Flood alerts; I think the number of people who are at risk from Flash Flooding in their homes is pretty small in this state (it may be larger in coastal or river delta areas).

      Was it an AT&T update that did this? There's definitely software support for it in IOS as I can see where to turn it on/off in my iPhone settings.

    3. Re:Phone Alerts by aamcf · · Score: 1

      There are some people who must be able to reach be 24/7. I'm not particularly important (except to those people, I guess) so I expect that most people are in that position too.

    4. Re:Phone Alerts by hjf · · Score: 1

      Yes, but new pones don't have the ability of wake up from poweroff for alarms.

    5. Re:Phone Alerts by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of New-Yorkers who have iPhones...

    6. Re:Phone alerts by wooferhound · · Score: 5, Funny

      How can you wake anybody up in the City That Never Sleeps ?

      --
      We are Dead Stars looking back Up at the Sky
    7. Re:Phone Alerts by DanTheStone · · Score: 1

      My phone is my alarm clock. It's certainly been more reliable than any dedicated alarm clock I owned in the past (which would run out of either electricity or battery power. It wouldn't work very well if I turned it off at night.

    8. Re:Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I noticed that I wasn't the only driver wobbling a little in their lane right after it happened.

      Please tell me that you wobbled because you decided to check what the message said.

      Sure, it's a stupid thing to do. But I don't know if I could handle the idea that the buzz alone is enough to interfere with your driving, nevermind how bad you might be if you actually picked it up and looked at it.

    9. Re:Phone Alerts by Proteus · · Score: 2

      First, yes dammit, I must be reachable as much as possible. If a friend or family member needs help in the middle of the night, I'm not gonna be the guy who says "sorry, I had my phone off."

      Second, I must be able to make a call at any time. My mobile is my only phone, and if something happens where I need to call 911, I'm not going to want to wait for the damned thing to boot.

      --
      We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
    10. Re:Phone alerts by bws111 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Do you know what a flash flood is? It has nothing to do with river deltas or coastal areas. A flash flood occurs when rain falls faster than it can be removed. This occurs when the ground is saturated and/or storm sewers are overwhelmed. Low lying areas quickly fill with water, which can be extremely dangerous, particularly if the low lying area happens to be a roadway. It is not a threat to your home, it is a threat to your life.

    11. Re:Phone Alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Irrelevant. You should not be notifying millions of people for a missing child. If I want to be attuned to human kidnappings, ill subscribe to watch lists. This system is so that they have an excuse to have remote abilities on every phone.

    12. Re:Phone alerts by Antipater · · Score: 5, Informative

      Have you heard the alerts? They're more than just the "bzzt" of a normal incoming text or phone call. It's a piercing, grating buzz, similar to a lot of fire alarms. And it's extremely loud, even if your volume is set to low or your phone is on vibrate. It really is enough to make an average person jump, then look around trying to find what's about to explode. I've never had one go off in the car, but I can easily understand a driver wobbling a bit as they try to figure out why there's suddenly an alarm blaring at them.

      --
      Everything is better with chainsaws.
    13. Re:Phone alerts by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Please tell me that you wobbled because you decided to check what the message said.

      Sure, it's a stupid thing to do. But I don't know if I could handle the idea that the buzz alone is enough to interfere with your driving, nevermind how bad you might be if you actually picked it up and looked at it.

      Sadly, I must confess that I did check it. Perhaps a little hypocritical of me considering how reckless I think people are who talk/text and drive at the same time.

      I was listening to a podcast at the time, and the alert is distinctive and VERY attention-getting. I had no idea what it was and was worried about what on earth could be causing my phone to make an alert sound like that. However, the wobble in my case was more from the initial surprise and confusion that from trying to check what it was. I managed to keep pretty straight in my lane while fishing it out of the pocket.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    14. Re:Phone alerts by l0kl1n · · Score: 1

      Okay. But within one week of getting the update on my iphone that enabled these alerts, I got 7 flash flood warnings. This is in an area that hasn't had a flood or flash flood in ... I don't know, 50 years? This is about the NWS wanting to cover their ass on the 1% chance that if a flash flood does occur, they can say "we warned ya". That isn't very useful when it's an alert per day. I promptly just turned it off.

    15. Re:Phone Alerts by cfalcon · · Score: 2

      It's my alarm clock.

      It's NOT the government's alarm clock for me.

    16. Re:Phone Alerts by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Yes, but new pones don't have the ability of wake up from poweroff for alarms.

      And if they did, they'd probably wake for Amber Alerts.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    17. Re:Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flash floods are often overflowing rivers; the "flash" only refers to the quick approaching and quick receding nature of the flooding, in contrast to river floods that result from patterns of weather or seasonal changes and can last weeks.

    18. Re:Phone Alerts by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      In this case, the new "feature" added to some phones recently are on my default and most don't even know about the feature or that it was pushed to them.

      When my AT&T iPhone was updated, I got some message about updating carrier settings, but it didn't say what it was. Nothing about Amber Alerts, and certainly nothing about turning them off.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    19. Re:Phone alerts by ducomputergeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When there is a tornado warning my phone alerts me 3 - 5 minutes before the sirens in the neighborhood go off. That 3 - 5 minutes can mean the difference between getting to the basement and living, being horribly injured as friends of mine in Joplin were, or being dead. I'll leave the feature on.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    20. Re:Phone alerts by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Since you aren't the same person who originally posted, and I don't know where you are, I can't really refute that. But I can point out that the OP said there are no flash floods in Minneapolis, yet here is an article about one that happened less than a month ago. If you have severe storms you have flash floods.

    21. Re:Phone alerts by bws111 · · Score: 1

      They may 'often' be overflowing rivers, but they aren't always overflowing rivers. We have plenty of flash floods where I live, and none of them involve a river.

    22. Re:Phone alerts by crymeph0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you heard one of those things go off? On my phone, it's an awful klaxon sound that seems psychologically designed to maximally distract you from whatever unimportant thing you were doing, like steering a 100-ton crane, and focus on the flood warning two counties over, which is clearly more important. These alerts are good in theory, but there's a real boy-who-cried-wolf problem with the current implementation.

      --
      It should be illegal to say that freedom of speech should be limited.
    23. Re:Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why do the sirens take so long? Are they run by Slashdot?

    24. Re:Phone Alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do none of your phones have an OFF button? You know, turn the phone off at night or must you be reachable 24/7/365?

      Are you always this judgmental? I charge my phone at night and you can't turn it off when it's plugged in. You know you didn't need to be rude to ask your question.

    25. Re:Phone alerts by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Consider yourself lucky you get alerts. Usually in Canada, the severe weather is already happening before you see or hear an alert. And the last time a tornado hit a city here in Ontario, there wasn't even a warning up...though the amateur weather nuts saw the hook forming 80km away. Sadly it's going to take a pile of deaths from a single tornado for things to change here in Canada. Hell we don't even have a tornado warning system in place, and most of the southern part of the province is in tornado alley. And I haven't even touched on the prairies here.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    26. Re:Phone alerts by Omestes · · Score: 1

      I turned mine off after getting a slew of dust storm warnings... I live in Phoenix, these happen once a week from mid-July until the end of August. They aren't scary, they aren't alert worthy, they are a common thing. Why does my phone need to explode just to tell me that its going to be dusty?

      A couple years back Verizon decided it was of utmost importance to tell me a rural wash, 10 miles from my house, might flood, once an hour for three days.

      Perhaps the administrators of these alerts should read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", since their utility is completely destroyed when everyone turns them off thanks to being deluged with trivial alerts. Probably whats happening though is that whoever runs these is just going "ooooh shiney" and wants to play with their new toys.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    27. Re:Phone Alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Airplane mode should take care of this. . .

    28. Re:Phone alerts by csimicah · · Score: 1

      If an alert from their phone causes someone to swerve, I hate to think what they'd do when honked at, or - worse - in an actual accident situation.

    29. Re:Phone Alerts by sjames · · Score: 1

      For a genuine emergency, yes I want to be reachable 24/7. For example, a friend or family member gets seriously injured, etc.

      A so-called child welfare department has a child taken away by it's mother during a supposedly supervised visit and they don't notice for several hours doesn't count.

    30. Re:Phone alerts by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why do the sirens take so long? Are they run by Slashdot?

      Slashdot Tornado alarms would ring 2 weeks after the town was devistated, and then a dupe alarm 2 weeks after that. That is if the Javascript loaded at all.

    31. Re: Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a better idea is to simply not drag cellphones into places where distractions are unwanted.

      For me that means it charges on the kitchen counter and not my nightstand, for others it might mean it stays in your glovebox and not the heavy machinery you operate. I'm assuming you have a two way radio in the work place :/

    32. Re:Phone alerts by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Your average storm drain *IS* a river.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    33. Re:Phone alerts by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ever been in a flash flood? Swimming won't help when the wall of water bangs you into a building.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    34. Re: Phone alerts by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      They abuse "flash flood" warnings in South Florida, too. It used to be quietly noted as "urban flooding from ponding water", but at some point over the past year or so, some asswipe decided to start calling it "flash flood" instead.

      Newsflash to NOAA, Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Collier, Lee, & Monroe counties: we don't have flash floods. They're a physical impossibility. We don't have hills with clay soil to channel rainfall into low-lying areas. Occasionally, a storm drain gets clogged by trash & floods the street. The closest we get to a real flash flood is if some badly-placed temporary Jersey barriers turn a freeway construction zone at the foot of a long ramp into a flume ride for an hour or two.

    35. Re:Phone alerts by budgenator · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised you don't get our alerts, I get a lot of "Welcome Abroad" messages from AT&T when my cell jumps to a Canadian tower driving home.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    36. Re:Phone alerts by l0kl1n · · Score: 1

      I can certainly appreciate your point but I would posit that (personally) getting so many false alerts as to make the alerts fade into the background is close to getting none at all -- in the end I (and I suspect others) just don't pay attention to them. (Well, this is specifically about weather alerts, I live in a rural area where amber alerts are pretty rare due to population density.)

    37. Re: Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. OP stated that the number is probably relatively low. As a society, we really, really need to get over this "stir everyone into a panic" mentality for risks that, while real, are of a nearly immeasurably low probability.

    38. Re:Phone alerts by Gogo0 · · Score: 1

      we have earthquake warnings on our phones in japan, but i guess theyre waiting for the next "great" one to use it. i've felt plenty of earthquakes (even a 5 off the kanagawa coast) but havent yet received an alert.

      i used to live in phoenix too, and while people like you and i dont care much about it, look at all the people that pull over on the side of I-17 for sand storms, or even (ridiculously) when it rains. of course its easy enough to see when its dusty or rainy, and i cant recall any floods in the city, or sand storms sneaking up on anyone and causing any serious problems...

    39. Re:Phone alerts by jamesh · · Score: 1

      When there is a tornado warning my phone alerts me 3 - 5 minutes before the sirens in the neighborhood go off. That 3 - 5 minutes can mean the difference between getting to the basement and living, being horribly injured as friends of mine in Joplin were, or being dead. I'll leave the feature on.

      I would too. I'd want it off between 10pm-7am for Amber Alerts though. If you deprive enough people of sleep then you are going to increase the likelihood of accidents during the day. Not much point putting peoples lives at risk to save a child - I mean unless the child just happens to be in your room when the alarm goes off the information isn't going to do you much good to most.

      OTOH if you were out on the road at 4am then other traffic tends to stand out more and the alert could actually do some good... I guess this is justification to track everyone's movements to see who's up and about, only to better target 4am Amber Alerts of course. Anybody who objects to this government tracking is obviously a pedophile. WONT SOMEBODY __PLEASE__ THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

    40. Re:Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If an alert from their phone causes someone to swerve, I hate to think what they'd do when honked at, or - worse - in an actual accident situation.

      Can I infer permission to hide in your backseat with an airhorn?

    41. Re:Phone alerts by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      What's a "normal" buzz? Every phone is different, every make supplies different sounds, and every user is allowed to customize the sounds.

      If this happened to me, I'd head back to the store and ask for a dumb phone replacement.

    42. Re: Phone alerts by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      But this only works if you know that this might happen. I think most people don't have any idea that their phone with their fun jingle could suddenly turn into a klaxon.

    43. Re:Phone alerts by RubberDogBone · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know what a flash flood is. And guess what? That stupid alert went off this evening. And OH I was so scared in my 100m+ office building on top of a ridge 300m above sea level nowhere near any source of water.

      Oh my the flash flood might come and.... do jack, pretty much. Wash down the sidewalks. If and when I need to be worried about a flood hitting a 100m building, I promise you there will be much more to worry about than the flood.

      But hey Verizon, thanks for the alert anyway. I mean it.

      --
      Sig for hire.
    44. Re:Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the most important question.

    45. Re:Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Profiles what are? One for driving and one for nap time so your phone doesn't scare the shit out of you.

    46. Re:Phone alerts by RLaager · · Score: 1

      I have a dumb phone. It does the same thing.

    47. Re:Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Highway DoS attack. Sounds dangerous.

    48. Re:Phone alerts by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The City never sleeps, but sometimes the people do. And then the City eats them.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    49. Re:Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of the textbooks definition of terrorism: To terrorize (scaremonger) somebody to enforce your will upon them.

      Bascially this is "fear training". You are trained to always be afraid.
      Useful... if one wants to enslave the population...

    50. Re:Phone alerts by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Checking in from Ohio. My company has a building that they've shoved all the IT folk into, and pretty much everyone has a smartphone of some kind. There was a severe thunderstorm / flash flood alert that got sent out via this system a week or so back, and the whole damn building was filled with the annoying sounds of these alerts going off simultaneously, and everyone was universally angry about it.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    51. Re: Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is not necessarily their intent to stir everybody up. We do live in a society that likes to sue people for not being perfect.

    52. Re:Phone alerts by awyeah · · Score: 1

      That's absolutely correct. However, with a NOAA weather radio, there's a good chance that you'll get even longer lead time.

      For example, the tornado warning for Joplin was issued 17 minutes before that tornado touched the ground (source).

      Obviously it's not practical to have a weather radio everywhere, and I'm certainly not going to carry one with me when I'm out and about...

      But I will say this: I have seen these things be early and late. Fortunately I have other methods of getting severe weather warnings on my phone, which tend to be more reliably on time.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    53. Re:Phone alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then the alarms would be reposted as "new" stories months afterwards ...

    54. Re:Phone alerts by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I can certainly appreciate your point but I would posit that (personally) getting so many false alerts as to make the alerts fade into the background is close to getting none at all

      THIS! A few months back, the entire state of Pennsylvania got an alert from Philadelphia about a possible abduction.

      A few weeks back, our area got an alert about a possible abduction of a boy wlaking home from school. Five minutes later it was cancelled when the boy showed up at home. Turns out mommy got upset when the boy was 5 minutes late.

      And while it is a high and mighty soundbite to proclaim "As long as one person is saved, it's worth bothering you any time, and any place." No it really isn't.

      We have become so fearful, and our technology has become so extensive, and so quick, that we will be able to drive ourselves insane in short order. The mommy who panics, calles the police and gets an amber alert because her boy is 5 minutes late? All this technology, and she has almost no leeway before flying into a full fledged panic.

      Whereas maybe 15 years ago, people would go places, be out of touch for a few hours, and no one thought anything of it. Now there are people who won't go out of cell tower range. They are trapped by their need to be 100 percent available. "What if someone needs to get hold of me for something important" I've heard multiple times. These people are experiencing the panic of an emergency without any actual emergency.

      Even now, a cable company is offering personal home surveillance systems, where you can camera up your house and control it's functions from work. Their commercials show an extremely happy, smiling mother, who is very pleased by seeing her children come home from school. Such a wonderful thing. Here's what is going to happen though. After the first couple days, when the parents are overjoyed that they have one more way of keeping track of their larvae, then the "I gotta check" disease starts.

      The'y'll think "What if something happens while I'm not looking?" They'll fly into a panic if the children aren't home when they should be. There will be amber alerts like the one that happened in my neighborhood just because the school bus hit some extra red lights, or their kids stop to talk to someone out of camera range. This wonderful techonlogy will only cause them more stress.

      And they'll spend all day at work, streaming their house cameras and functions, being less productive, and more worried by the moment. I've turned off all the alerts on my iphone. I can look outside to see if the weather is looking nasty, check the NOAA maps for storms, and make up my own mind. I loves me some good technology. That doesn't mean there aren't counterproductive things being done with it some times.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    55. Re:Phone alerts by dywolf · · Score: 1

      a flash flood has jack all to do with "source of water". the runoff from your parking lot is a "source of water".

      what do you think a flash flood is? a wall of water 10 ft high? No. Not necessarily.

      It only takes ~2 feet of fast moving water to move a vehicle.
      It only takes 6 inches of moving water to knock over an adult.

      flash floods have formed and occured on downhill city streets before and drowned kids.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    56. Re:Phone Alerts by agrisea · · Score: 1

      Amazingly enough, a Moderator has indicated my original message as being off topic. I don't think so. My questions are valid and those who replied to them pointed out that the cell phone, especially the enhanced types, are being used in a manner the subscriber may not have wished for.

      --
      Agrisea Tsunami - Epyc Servers... https://agrisea.net/products
    57. Re:Phone Alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People want to be reachable all the time, especially parents. What if your kids are drunk and need a ride home? What if they got arrested? Or hurt? Same things with spouses and parents. If your mother had a heart attack or something at 3AM, wouldn't you want to know immediately? Do you just like not care about these situations, or are you expecting people to call your landline in these emergencies? Because guess what, many many people don't have a landline. I have never subscribed to land-line service my entire life. If I am visiting my parents and I go out drinking, they keep telling me to call them for a ride home. They say don't get in a car with someone who has been drinking, and don't walk home. I don't really listen to that. But they couldn't say those things if they kept their phone off. What if I did try to call and their phone was off, and ended up dead in a drunk driving accident or something?

  6. Not just NYC by TrumpetPower! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Last week there was an Amber Alert in the Valley of the Sun. A bit later, I thought that such a system was too easy to abuse...imagine an Amber Alert that says it's for a kidnapped child but actually happens to be for a political dissident like Snowden...and that's when I turned off the Amber Alerts.

    They've also been excessively over-zealous about thunderstorm alerts, but I'm not quite yet ready to turn those off. But if they don't clean up their act fast, I will.

    b&

    --
    All but God can prove this sentence true.
    1. Re:Not just NYC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I 2nd this. I turned off Amber alerts (Chicago area) about 2 months ago when I get one at 1:30AM. Many people questioned it because it was for a child from Texas, looking for a car from Texas, but that was in the Chicago area (supposedly). The amber alert forgot to mention that last part....

      And the thunderstorm/flash flood warnings constantly go off. Once is enough.

    2. Re:Not just NYC by mariox19 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      [I]magine an Amber Alert that says it's for a kidnapped child but actually happens to be for a political dissident like Snowden...and that's when I turned off the Amber Alerts.

      You do know that weather alerts and amber alerts can be turned off, but not alerts sent out by the President of the United States, right?

      I don't know about you, comrade, but I sometimes wonder what's going on in this country.

      --

      quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

    3. Re:Not just NYC by jandrese · · Score: 2

      An alert sent personally from the President of the US had better be something like "US under space alien attack, everybody hide!"

      If he starts sending out campaign crap or something, then I'll get up in arms, but thus far it seems like a useful thing to be able to alert the entire country when some major major major shit goes down.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    4. Re:Not just NYC by awyeah · · Score: 1

      I *think* that the Presidential message is probably the same thing as an Emergency Action Notification, which has never been used before.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    5. Re:Not just NYC by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      You do know that weather alerts and amber alerts can be turned off, but not alerts sent out by the President of the United States, right?

      I don't know about you, comrade, but I sometimes wonder what's going on in this country.

      That seems reasonable to me. Our president isn't going to waste his time sending out alerts for every missing child. If he uses this system you know it's going to be at least a 9/11 scale situation.

    6. Re:Not just NYC by jandrese · · Score: 2

      Yeah, when you've reserved the function for only the most dire of emergencies then it's a good an useful system. It's hard to imagine someone getting online and complaining "I was woken up at 2AM and it was only nuclear war!!! Don't they know that I need good uninterrupted sleep to be productive at my job?!?"

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    7. Re:Not just NYC by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      This has been true since the '60s - a broadcast station had discretion about the sorts of things they wanted to show, and how they wanted to show it, but not a Presidential alert. You're just getting mad about it now because - why? there's a cellphone involved?

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    8. Re:Not just NYC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has been true since the '60s - a broadcast station had discretion about the sorts of things they wanted to show, and how they wanted to show it, but not a Presidential alert. You're just getting mad about it now because - why? there's a cellphone involved?

      Same reason everyone's getting mad about the NSA surveillance now despite it being around since shortly after 9/11, I guess.

      Does anyone else but me realize 9/11 was around 12 years ago? Do you realize how OLD we are?

    9. Re:Not just NYC by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Informative

      That seems reasonable to me. Our president isn't going to waste his time sending out alerts for every missing child. If he uses this system you know it's going to be at least a 9/11 scale situation.

      After the PATRIOT act passed, one of the first attempted invocations was by Texas state Republicans attempting to track down Democratic members of their state congress who'd left the state in order to prevent the state senate and house from reaching quorum (They had to leave the state because otherwise Texas law enforcement personnel could compel them forcibly to return to the capitol).

      Politicians will always misuse broad authority if given half a chance to do so.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    10. Re:Not just NYC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he starts sending out campaign crap or something, then I'll get up in arms.

      No, you won't.

      Just look at what you swallowed from your elected officials and realise the truth: there ain't gonna be a militia ever again to overthrow the government. Y'all lack the spine.

      (Oh, and before name calling starts: I lack the spine too, so I don't use the "militia" argument)

    11. Re:Not just NYC by yotto · · Score: 1

      I pay ten cents a text you insensitive clod!

      My phone bill is now 98 dollars and TEN CENTS. THANKS OBAMA.

    12. Re:Not just NYC by awyeah · · Score: 1

      Yup. It becomes a cry wolf/alarm fatigue situation when they abuse it.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    13. Re:Not just NYC by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      I also turned off Amber Alerts, but left weather on. While Amber Alerts are important, there's no reason for the super-loud, knock-your-socks-off alert sound for them. A normal notification message is sufficient.

    14. Re:Not just NYC by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Yea, I really wish the weather alert controls were a bit more granular. I don't want to be woke up for a severe thunderstorm warning or flash flood warning (If my particular home floods, you better have an ark ready to go). I do want to be woke up for more urgent things like tornado warnings. Being woke up by an actual tornado (had this happen) is not pleasant.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    15. Re:Not just NYC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because I don't always have my tv on and it isn't really practical to turn off a phone just in case?

    16. Re:Not just NYC by AdamHaun · · Score: 1

      You do know that weather alerts and amber alerts can be turned off, but not alerts sent out by the President of the United States [fcc.gov], right?

      That's because wireless alerts are descended from systems intended to warn the public about an incoming nuclear attack. ICBMs take less than 30 minutes to hit their target (much less for nearby sub-launched missiles), so the warnings were set up to interrupt every TV channel and radio station immediately. The civil defense functionality has never been used, and it probably won't be anytime soon.

      --
      Visit the
    17. Re:Not just NYC by CastrTroy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Everybody is saying "cry wolf" but it seems like more of a "chicken little" situation to me. In the old "boy who cried wolf" tale, the boy was actually lying, just to try to have some fun. Whereas chicken little was just blowing things a little out of proportion and getting the rest of the barnyard worked up over nothing.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    18. Re:Not just NYC by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

      " A bit later, I thought that such a system was too easy to abuse..."

      After seeing the system at work in NYC, imagine a specific target group, and them only , being sent an "alert". If anyone in that group responds to the alert with their cellphone--even picking it up-- they have essentially allowed themselves to be "painted". That is to say that their physical body is directly co-located with their cellphone (already geo-located via several methods including triangulation and GPS).

    19. Re:Not just NYC by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      It's not a text, it's a different (but similar) protocol. Even if it were, they're specifically exempted from fees.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    20. Re:Not just NYC by CyprusBlue113 · · Score: 1

      Yea, I really wish the weather alert controls were a bit more granular. I don't want to be woke up for a severe thunderstorm warning or flash flood warning (If my particular home floods, you better have an ark ready to go). I do want to be woke up for more urgent things like tornado warnings. Being woke up by an actual tornado (had this happen) is not pleasant.

      Tornado warnings are classified as extreme, which is a tier higher than the others you listed.

      --
      a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people -u4ya
    21. Re: Not just NYC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Texas 11 page on Wikipedia says no such thing, maybe you'd care to update it and provide a citation?

      OTOH, the part about Tom DeLay asserting that redistricting is a federal concern, now that is comedy gold after watching the fight over the Voting Rights Act in TX recently.

    22. Re:Not just NYC by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Yes, they are. Now if you would be so kind as to inform the person who created the cell phone implementation of EAS that would be swell! Because I have received all three of those alert types since AT&T pushed this out. My current choices for those wireless EAS alerts are Weather Alerts On or Weather Alerts Off.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    23. Re:Not just NYC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks everyone for giving me yet more reasons to not have a cell/mobile phone.

    24. Re:Not just NYC by CyprusBlue113 · · Score: 1

      Yes, they are. Now if you would be so kind as to inform the person who created the cell phone implementation of EAS that would be swell! Because I have received all three of those alert types since AT&T pushed this out. My current choices for those wireless EAS alerts are Weather Alerts On or Weather Alerts Off.

      Yes, they are. Now if you would be so kind as to inform the person who created the cell phone implementation of EAS that would be swell! Because I have received all three of those alert types since AT&T pushed this out. My current choices for those wireless EAS alerts are Weather Alerts On or Weather Alerts Off.

      That's your shitty carrier, not the EAS system. Blame AT&T.

      Verizon's app for example has 5 tiers of classification you can turn on and off.

      Moderate Alert (Watches and the like)
      Severe Alert (Most all the warning class goes here)
      Extreme Alert (Tornado Warnings pretty much)
      Amber Alerts (Self explanatory)
      Presidential Notifications

      --
      a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people -u4ya
    25. Re:Not just NYC by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      A bit later, I thought that such a system was too easy to abuse...imagine an Amber Alert that says it's for a kidnapped child but actually happens to be for a political dissident like Snowden...

      People like you make me wish my retirement fund was invested solely in aluminum foil stocks.

    26. Re:Not just NYC by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      After the PATRIOT act passed, one of the first attempted invocations was by Texas state Republicans attempting to track down Democratic members of their state congress who'd left the state in order to prevent the state senate and house from reaching quorum (They had to leave the state because otherwise Texas law enforcement personnel could compel them forcibly to return to the capitol).

      Politicians will always misuse broad authority if given half a chance to do so.

      Please tell me you are joking?

    27. Re:Not just NYC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has been true since the '60s - a broadcast station had discretion about the sorts of things they wanted to show, and how they wanted to show it, but not a Presidential alert. You're just getting mad about it now because - why? there's a cellphone involved?

      Yes, because I can turn off the TV and radio without a care, but if I turn off my cellphone then I will actually miss important calls. You're interrupting my business and personal life.

    28. Re:Not just NYC by awyeah · · Score: 1

      That seems like a better analogy. Either way, the general public definitely stops taking alerts seriously when they get too many of them.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
  7. Loud? by magarity · · Score: 1

    What kind of alert system has device access permissions that let it be loud enough to wake everyone up? When I get Amber alerts, it's just a text message with a momentary vibrate.

    1. Re:Loud? by ThinkWeak · · Score: 2

      I was surprised when the tornado warning alert went off on my phone last week here in Ohio. It was the second week that I have had the phone, a Galaxy S4. My Galaxy Nexus was more of a vibrate when one of the amber alerts or weather warnings went off. When the S4 fired, it was like a portable tornado siren. I kid you not, it rivaled the testing of the emergency broadcast system on televisions.

    2. Re:Loud? by SkiTee94 · · Score: 1

      This was sent via the Wireless Emergency Alert and not a text message. It's a special alert that sounds a loud continuous tone (similar to the tone on TV/radio when they test the "Emergency Broadcast System"). It was automatically "installed" on most modern smartphones (at least in the NYC area) earlier this year. The default setting is "on" although users can disable the alerts (which apparently many in NYC are now doing).

    3. Re:Loud? by kannibal_klown · · Score: 2

      Yeh, mine went off a couple of weeks ago for a flood warning. I was already in the office and my phone and a few others went off. They made strange tones as opposed to the normal email/txt/phone tones.

      Meanwhile, my co-worker was still driving to work when his went off. He never heard it before, it apparently was piped through the car speakers via bluetooth, and scared the heck out of him. He joked that he could've had a crash/accident when it went off, but I don't think it's that far of a stretch to assume.

    4. Re:Loud? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      The one the government mandated you can not even turn off some of them. Great way to keep em scared guys.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    5. Re:Loud? by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      The one the government mandated you can not even turn off some of them. Great way to keep em scared guys.

      A strategy to keep people from paying attention to NSA eavesdropping news? Wow! And people keep saying how stupid government is -- time to wake up (ah-hum no pun intended.)

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    6. Re:Loud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can remove notification app on a rooted phone, so there is a way to turn them off.

    7. Re:Loud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of alert system has device access permissions that let it be loud enough to wake everyone up? When I get Amber alerts, it's just a text message with a momentary vibrate.

      Mine was quite loud. That alert warning sound. It also vibrated in a extra annoying manor. Now I just need to flash my phone so I can illegally turn of presidential alerts.

    8. Re:Loud? by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is something so compelling about a decision made in the interests of good, but so boneheaded and asperger's-style singlemindedness that it results in the exact opposite. Makes you just want to smack the person responsible until *you* get tired of it

    9. Re:Loud? by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 2

      That information is useless. A user needs to be able to turn this off on a stock cellphone.

    10. Re:Loud? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Not really. Unintended consequences are the norm with Nanny State legislation.

    11. Re:Loud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure you can shut it off on a stock cell phone. 1. Root phone 2. Delete app 3. Unroot phone. 4??? 5. Profit!

  8. Wolf! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wolf Wolf! Wolf!

    1. Re:Wolf! by Minwee · · Score: 1

      Wolf!

      (Technically safe for work, but expect the domain to be flagged by a few filters.)

  9. for some reason... by roc97007 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...this reminds me of the scene in fahrenheit 451 (I believe, it's been awhile) where the TV coordinates the entire population to go and look out their front door to locate a fugative. I always found that part particularly scary.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:for some reason... by c-A-d · · Score: 1

      Better analogy than the wake up alerts from the telescreen in 1984 that I was thinking of.

      --
      some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
    2. Re:for some reason... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      That's a good one too. Life imitates art.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    3. Re:for some reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Already happened. During the Ugandan genocide, there were alerts on the radio, "Person Xxx is running down street Yyy, Get him!"

    4. Re:for some reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is literally the exact same thing.

    5. Re:for some reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fahrenheit 451 was about self censorship, not censorship or control by the state. To not be disturbed from their wallscreens, the population made books illegal. Summary of summaries is what they wanted. What they demanded. The more interesting point is viewers did not want the show to continue past its allocated slot. They were restless and to keep their interest, a fugitive had to be found. Fugitives are always found at end of the show's slot. The story is resolved. Looking out the window was just "interactive television".

      If you want Fahrenheit 451 example, look at politics. In last election, did politicians debate the finer points of their disagreements? Perhaps that there is no ideal solution to the conflict, but a solution is better than nothing? Or did they said "you bad, me good"?

      TL;DR? Case and point.

    6. Re:for some reason... by skywire · · Score: 1

      self-censorship, not censorship or control by the state

      The two are not mutually exclusive. I suspect that you are using "self" in an odd way. When you say that "the population made books illegal", what you mean is that a considerable portion of the population either demanded that the state make books illegal, or acquiesced in it. While that says something about how states become oppressive, it does not imply that the state is not doing the oppressing.

      --
      Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    7. Re:for some reason... by WGFCrafty · · Score: 1

      That's a good one too. Life imitates art.

      More like art predicts life, the technological innovations mentioned in f451 are things you put in your ears to speak wirelessly and giant wall screens with frivolous entertainment.

      Huxley got the frivolity of life down, contemporary life seems more and more a combination of 1984 and A Brave New World.

    8. Re:for some reason... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      My thought also. When part of the population tells another part (even a small minority) that they can no longer do something, the "self" part of "self censorship" no longer applies.

      But the OP up there does have a point -- that according to the book, the people moved away from books more and more to attention deficit types of entertainment, and the government simply took advantage of a phenomenon that was already happening. So to a certain extent, the people did do this to themselves.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    9. Re:for some reason... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Something that bothered me about Huxley's and Bradbury's (and other author's) vision of a future where life had become frivolous to the point of losing all meaning -- it seems like any such society would be wiped out by the first thing that came along that was not covered by the socio/technological infrastructure put in place by an earlier, smarter people. If society had gotten to the point where jobs consisted of manipulating things created by people long dead, and spending most of one's life being entertained by similar devices, what happens when something occurs that requires out-of-the-box thinking to survive? My guess is, you don't. So societies described by F451 and Brave New World and various others described by Brunner or Ellison, would by necessity be ephemeral. As soon as they were challenged, they'd fold.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    10. Re:for some reason... by khallow · · Score: 2

      Niven's "A World Out of Time" proposes a mechanism for a stable totalitarian government based on the idea of a "hydraulic empire". The idea is that if a society is controlled by access to a vital scarce resource (such as water in ancient Egypt, supposedly) and has no external threats, then it can last a long time. In Niven's story, such a government failed only when they goof badly while piloting the Earth to Saturn. The society in question wasn't challenged prior to that point and collapsed quickly as a result (with most of the Earth becoming uninhabitable as a result).

    11. Re:for some reason... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      I don't think I've read that one, but I'm familiar with the idea of a water monopoly. I think Heinlein wrote about it also. As I recall, he said that such a society could get profoundly rotten, but still not be overthrown from within. It always needed an outside influence to initiate collapse. It could be a very small influence.

      So yeah, societies like the one in F451 should inevitably collapse. And come to think of it, by the end of the novel, it did.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  10. Same thing in Boston when the Alerts went live... by Dr.+Crash · · Score: 1

    The same thing happened in the Boston area within a week of the alert system going live; we got two alerts in 48 hours, one at about 11 PM and the other at 2 AM; the whole Boston area got jolted awake by their phones shreiking at full volume.

    Next day, everyone and their brother was scrambling to figure out how to TURN OFF THE $($(#( alerts.

    Net result is that we've lost a possibly-useful resource. What should have happened is that there should be an "I'm mobile" test in the chain; Amber alerts should shriek at you only if you're actively moving right then.

  11. Good practice by ackthpt · · Score: 1

    Well, they know it works and are now ready for the Zombpocalypse!

    which will be reported on /. the day after it starts

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Good practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      and there will be a dupe a week later

    2. Re:Good practice by kbx911 · · Score: 0

      my thoughts precisely, THIS IS Z-ALARM

  12. can these be disabled after a jailbreak? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    or is there a way to add these to a block list?

  13. WTF? by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Let me get this straight? People are bitching because an alert for a missing child woke them up? So a child's life is less important to you then a few minutes of missing sleep?

    Wow. That certainly puts some peoples priorities in place.

    --

    Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    1. Re:WTF? by philgp · · Score: 5, Funny

      So what have you done with the real Lord Apathy?

    2. Re:WTF? by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 3, Funny

      I got a new girlfriend, she is much easier to inflate, so I've been getting laid more. Mellowed me out some.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    3. Re:WTF? by Dr.+Crash · · Score: 5, Informative

      If it means I get jolted awake by my phone SHRIEKING at the top of it's volume setting every third day sometime between midnight and 3 AM when I have to go to work the next morning, then YES, my sleep is more important.

      Waking up five million people from a sound sleep once a week or so just isn't feasible; it's crying wolf and people will simply turn their phones off (which defeats the whole purpose of it). And it's not something you can set to low volume; at least on a Verizon Droid 3, even if it's set on vibrate, an alert blares at maximum alarm volume and with a particularly annoying shriek and you CANNOT set it to a lower volume; there is only "SHRIEK" and "ignore".

    4. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So says Lord Apathy...

    5. Re:WTF? by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      Let me get this straight? People are bitching because an alert for a missing child woke them up? So a child's life is less important to you then a few minutes of missing sleep?

      Wow. That certainly puts some peoples priorities in place.

      Perhaps the biggest whiners were the most self centered.

      Remember when you would hear of these small town children being lost and the whole town turning out to search for them or do everything they can to pull a child from a well?

      Welcome to New York City, where it's somebody else's problem. An SEP field generator wouldn't even need a battery there.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    6. Re:WTF? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Missing is a bit of a loose term the child was removed from a state facility by there mother during a supervised visit.

      Sounds a lot more like the state having egg on it's face and trying to clean it up asap. This is also 12 or so hours after the fact.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    7. Re:WTF? by magic+maverick+ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes. My sleep is more important than getting woken up at 4am with an alert telling me about a missing child in a city the size of NYC. Who is going to be looking out their window at that time of the morning?

      Let's think about the math. Add up all those minutes of missed sleep. Work out how that equates to minutes of life lost (people dieing earlier), add the car accidents because some people can't get back to sleep if woken up at 4am, and are drowsy when they drive/step off the curb.

      Adds up to more than one child's life is worth.

      Fuck the child. No wait. Forget the child, it's going to be fucked anyway (presumably that's why it got kidnapped?).

      --
      HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
    8. Re:WTF? by SkiTee94 · · Score: 2

      The Wireless Emergency Alerts system was intended mostly to be for major emergencies where everyone needs to be notified (e.g. there's a tornado coming your way seek cover). Sending an alert to everyone in the middle of the night to look out for a license plate number is a poor use of the system. The net result is that many people got annoyed and are now deactivating what could be a very important resource in the future. Information such as "look our for a Tan Lexus" is best directed at people in a position to make use of it... e.g., notifying those out on the road via electronic road signs and radio broadcasts. Waking a city of 8 million up to give them information that is totally useless will just annoy people.

    9. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you might be due for a new handle. Yours doesn't seem too fitting.

    10. Re:WTF? by SecurityTheatre · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Amber Alerts are worthless and do absolutely nothing in over 95% of cases. In the US, there were less than 400 reported stranger abductions, but over 40,000 amber alerts were issued.

      Several police studies have shown them to be quite nearly worthless, but the economic cost of putting up thousands of road signs, deploying massive international tracking and notification systems has counted in the tens of billions of dollars.

      You do realize how many MORE children's lives could be saved by $10 billion in health care and nutritional supplements... or even in mental health, considering the suicide rate amongst children is a factor of TEN higher than the abduction rate.

      Holy crap....

    11. Re:WTF? by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're bitching because at 4AM in bed there's not a damned thing they could have done about it. Alerts should be confined to situations where being alerted is helpful.

      In prior events, the amber alerts were simply displayed on street signs so that people who might actually have the possibility of spotting the car were told and nobody else.

      To put it in perspective, as sad as it is, if they alert everyone for everything, it will be just one long uninterrupted alarm. people have to prioritize.

    12. Re:WTF? by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well yes it could.

      People need sleep to function well in society. If you wake up a large portion of NYC and break their sleep. They could be less alert during the day where they may affect the lives of others.

      The alert system really should be information that you really should get kicked out of bed for.
      Tornado, Hurricane, Earthquake, Approaching Fire, Flood, Nuclear Explosion. You know stuff if you stay in bed and sleep in, you could be dead before your normal wake up time.

      It isn't that Amber Alerts are bad, however it shouldn't be on the emergency, get the fuck out of bed alerts.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    13. Re:WTF? by hjf · · Score: 1

      BUT BUT BUT... crowdsorcing!!!

    14. Re:WTF? by Soluzar · · Score: 2

      The police exist to handle such situations. I do not. There is probably nothing I can do to help, and certainly not while I'm trying to sleep. If this happened to me, I'd have to start turning off my phone at nights.

    15. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... child's life is less important ...

      How does harassing 5 million people protect the child? Sleep deprivation is a real problem in modern cities and can easily endanger lives. Waking everyone to look for a car in their bedroom is ridiculous. What's next? Telling everyone to look for a naked man.

    16. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless the Tan Lexus is driving through their bedrooms, they were woken unnecessarily and believe it or not people often have their own kids to look after, jobs etc and need their sleep.

    17. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are several problems with the alert as it was issued:

      It conveyed information in an arcane, effectively incomprehensible manner.

      People who were asleep aren't going to be useful for finding a car, and pretty much everyone at that particular time of day is going to be asleep, or on a night shift at work.

      People who are driving a car will either have to ignore the message or endanger themselves and everyone around them. Or get shouted at by their car's speaker system, apparently, which is an accident risk itself.

      There's a reason these alerts are traditionally issued via roadside signs and the TV/radio. This was stupid and whoever issued the alert should be fired, because now people are just going to turn off these alerts entirely rather than have to deal with useless, uncommunicative, and potentially dangerous alerts that they can't do anything about anyway.

    18. Re:WTF? by 0123456 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Welcome to New York City, where it's somebody else's problem.

      Exactly. It is someone else's problem.

      People in a small town can do something useful. People in a big city are probably miles away from where they could do something useful. Sending out this kind of stupid message just encourages them to ignore all messages in future.

    19. Re:WTF? by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are not asking you to look out the window at 4 am or go looking for a missing child.

      Then what's the point?

      They are putting the information out there so you will know a child is missing.

      So why are they doing it at 4am? The breakfast news would be more effective.

    20. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, my sleep IS more important than yet another alert that someone's kid is missing at 3 AM. I'm not about to get up and go searching for him...that's what the search and rescue teams do. And the police. And the parents and their friends, NOT millions of other people who should be sleeping so they don't get too tired that they run over some kid while driving to work later that AM.

    21. Re:WTF? by Anrego · · Score: 1

      Probably because in a small town, this wasn't a frequent occurrence. Drop a kid down a well every week and you'd have a lot less people turning up...

      Obviously some folk are more self-sacrificing than others, but everyone draws a line somewhere, or else we’d all be living on the bare minimum possible and donating all our money to feed starving children/cure cancer/whatever.

    22. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. That's the answer you want right? Children go missing every day, you don't rouse hundreds of thousands of people for it

    23. Re:WTF? by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      I think you are making a false analogy here. This isn't "a childs life" vs "Sleep" unless you assume that there is reason to believe that, at 4 am, a significant portion of the population may be on the roads and able to look (perhaps still stuck in traffic from the day before?)

      What is the expectation that some portion of the population, from their vantage point in bed, is able to spot the vehicle?

      So since there is no expectation it can help, why is the mere appearance of caring about a childs life more important than an entire cities sleep?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    24. Re:WTF? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      People are bitching because an alert for a missing child woke them up? So a child's life is less important to you then a few minutes of missing sleep?

      If you wake me up in the middle of the night to ask me if I've seen a car, my response is going to be a good solid "fuck off".

      Bad things happen all of the time, I don't need a personal notice of every damned one of them -- and nowadays they'll trot out an amber alert if a kid is 10 minutes late getting home from school.

      I'm not on the taskforce to protect children, and I'm not willing to be dragged into the weeping and gnashing which happens every time anything happens and people panic over it.

      All I hear is "ZOMG, a child is missing, quick everybody stop what your doing and look for it". It might serve to keep the populace in near panic most of the time, but I'm betting it does very little else.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    25. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. I guarentee that if any of these people that complained had a missing child and were asked "Your child is missing do you want us to send a text even though it is 3 AM". They would all say "DAMN STRAIGHT!!!"

      The people that complain are the same ass hats that will not pull over for an emergency vehicle with sirens blaring....

    26. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1 Troll? If I had a account I'd upvote this in a heartbeat. Come on people, be rational! maximize happiness for the greatest number
      lesswrong.com !

    27. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So for the amount spent on finding 400 children, they could have spent ten grand each on a million suicidal children. A million lives of torment march on to possibly save 400.

    28. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you never met a New Yorker?

    29. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How are people sleeping going to spot a tan Lexus?

    30. Re:WTF? by pla · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So a child's life is less important to you then a few minutes of missing sleep?

      "Every 40 seconds in the United States, a child becomes missing or is abducted".

      Let me know when sleep becomes more important to you than every single one of those childrens' lives, so I can laugh heartily at you.

    31. Re:WTF? by Damek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm with you on spending money on healthcare of all kinds, but the AMBER stats I'm finding are nowhere like what you're claiming. They look pretty effective from http://www.statisticbrain.com/amber-alert-statistics/ and http://www.chp.ca.gov/amber/ - do you have some sources for the stats and studies you're citing? It would be most helpful.

    32. Re:WTF? by SecurityGuy · · Score: 1

      As someone who has actually driven to help search for someone's missing child more than once, yeah, I get this. Telling a bunch of people who are sleeping, nearly all of whom are not going to get up and go look for this car, that a child is missing somewhere in a large area (read: you're extremely unlikely to go outside and see this car) is stupid. Telling people things in stupid ways gets them ignored. You don't have to like it, but it's true, and it's what actually happened.

      My kids' school does something similar. Every bleeping day they have 2-6 "important announcements" that they have to call my cell phone about. Every day I let them go to voice mail and delete it unheard, not because I don't care, but because I actually did listen to them in the beginning and they were never important announcements. It was often crap like grade so-and-so is having a fund raiser, or remember to send (thing) if your child is going on the field trip my kids weren't going on.

      Attention is a precious commodity. Abuse it and lose it.

    33. Re:WTF? by dougmc · · Score: 2

      My phone did it's first Amber Alert a few months ago.

      It was screaming in a tone that I had never heard before, louder than any noise the phone had ever made. It sounded like the fire alarm, but it was coming from my pocket. Scared the crap out of me, could have caused an accident had I been driving. Fortunately it was during the day, not while I was asleep. Another one happened the next day, and then I figured out how to kill the alerts and did so. If I could make it a quiet tone, then OK, but this terror beep? No, and it didn't seem to be configurable.

      As for a few minutes of missing sleep, let's say it's five minutes. Multiply that times four million, and that's 38 years lost for an action that probably won't do anything to actually find the missing child. It does add up.

      Actually, the cost is greater than that, as disrupting people's sleep causes them to sleep poorly, and they may drive more poorly the next day, do their job more poorly, etc. It could possibly cause fatal accidents, etc. It's quite possible that by alerting everybody about this missing child, they've actually caused a few deaths.

    34. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course the sleep is more important than the FRACTIONAL VALUE THAT LOSING THE SLEEP WOULD PROVIDE TO SOME CHILD.

      See, that's the actual compare. Not some "think-of-the-children" horseshit you just slung out there. It's not my fucking job to save some kid, but I'm pretty sure that, like most folks, I'd help out if I could. But this? Is not that. This is absurd. You are inconveniencing EVERYONE in the hopes that a COUPLE people might be able to help. That's ludicrous, and yea, you want to disable that. What are the odds that this alert causes a heart attack or car accident? One in a billion? Did you factor that in?

    35. Re:WTF? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the email at work. Most of it is stuff that has no relevance to me. I probably have a dozen that I haven't read yet.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    36. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know this may be difficult to wrap your head around, but a significant number of people are up and starting their day between 4 and 5 am. Not everybody stays up until 2 am raiding Throne of Thunder, ace.

      Say even 10% of the city is up and awake at that time... that's still 10% of the city that has the information before your lazy ass gets out of bed at 9 am.

      And I'm sorry, but if you can't manage being woken up once at 4 am, and your entire life goes to shit... you're already on the road to an early death.

    37. Re:WTF? by bws111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Say what? Where are you getting those numbers? In all of 2011, there were a total of 158 amber alerts issued in the entire US. Of those alerts, 144 resulted in a successful recovery. 28 of the recoveries were a direct result of the alert

    38. Re:WTF? by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Why would they issue amber alerts when no one was abducted?

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    39. Re:WTF? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      My exact reaction. A neighbor's kid goes missing, law enforcement needs timely info, and people are complaining? If it was your kid, you'd want the National Guard called in.

      As for the people who aren't going to look, there's still a group of people who know the car.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    40. Re:WTF? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      EDIT: Just read the rationale for the alert and that is NOT a good use of the system. I totally agree with the existence, but only for direct threats of harm.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    41. Re:WTF? by Americano · · Score: 4, Informative

      Where do you get your numbers? Because your number of amber alerts is off by several orders of magnitude, wherever you found them.

      NCEMC, which administers the AMBER Alert program, reports that in 2011, there were 158 AMBER Alerts issued in the United States. (source)

      13 of those alerts were hoaxes, 6 were determined to be 'unfounded.' 127 of the cases, the child (or children) were recovered within 72 hours.

      Since 2005, the number of alerts nationwide has declined from a high of 275 (involving 338 children) to 2011's total of 158 (involving 197 children).

      That's a far cry short of "40,000 amber alerts issued," even if you look at the lifetime of the program, unless 2012 and 2013 saw literally tens of thousands of amber alerts issued every year.

      And bear in mind, an AMBER Alert activation in California isn't going to be broadcast to the people in NYC, and vice versa. The number of AMBER alerts any person is likely to see in a given year tops out at 10-15 for people living in California, where the highest number was seen.

    42. Re:WTF? by Wookact · · Score: 1

      I am not driving around at 3AM. I will be of no use in any search as I plan to go back to bed. The alert is being shut off, along with all of the other alerts.

      Ohh BTW great job with the "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!1!" mentality there.

    43. Re:WTF? by Wookact · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Protip: A city the size of New York, there is always a child missing.

    44. Re:WTF? by EXrider · · Score: 1

      My kids' school does something similar. Every bleeping day they have 2-6 "important announcements" that they have to call my cell phone about. Every day I let them go to voice mail and delete it unheard, not because I don't care, but because I actually did listen to them in the beginning and they were never important announcements. It was often crap like grade so-and-so is having a fund raiser, or remember to send (thing) if your child is going on the field trip my kids weren't going on.

      Oh man, some smart ass kid (I'm guessing) wrote their area code one digit off on the form that the stupid ass school presumably trusted the kid to fill out correctly. I started getting like 3-5 voicemails a day from some charter school in Texas with this annoying ass bubbly principal talking all GOOOO HIGHLANDERS about pep rallies, dress codes and attendance rates. Thankfully it was my GoogleVoice number so I promptly blocked it, and several other subsequent numbers, but I then started getting pre-recorded calls from all kinds of teachers telling me about how lil Jasmine ditched their class or whatnot. AND they are NEVER an actual human or auto-attendant system that you can actually use to get ahold of someone to get them to STOP calling. It went on for months before I had all of the various outgoing numbers blocked. Be thankful your child doesn't go to that school, it's F'n full on phone harassment.

      --
      grep -iw skynet /etc/services
    45. Re:WTF? by sjames · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You mean in places where you wouldn't get fired because you skipped work that day? and you wouldn't get arrested for interfering with the police? and the guy who found the child and walked him back to his parents wouldn't end up with his face plastered on TV with the caption "Child Molester?" for the next week?

    46. Re:WTF? by sjames · · Score: 0

      Given the reputation of child services in this country it might have been considered more of a rescue than a kidnapping.

    47. Re:WTF? by sjames · · Score: 1

      But those things are no fun because we don't get to get somebody for what they did and make them pay.

    48. Re:WTF? by martinX · · Score: 2

      In my country, we would then have a Royal Commission into wells, with broad terms of reference, headed by an eminent QC or ex-judge and who would report to Parliament in 3 years.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    49. Re:WTF? by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      A childs life is more important than one person's sleep, but not the whole world's sleep. I'm not sure where the line should be drawn, but it's somewhere between those extremes. How does being woken by an alarm result in only a few minutes of lost sleep? Many will have lost however many hours are between the alert and their normal wake-up time.

    50. Re:WTF? by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, 28 of the amber alerts resulted in successful recovery and something else was responsible for the other 116.

      Now, to determine the actual effectiveness, we have to figure out how many of those 28 would have been recovered by some other means had the alert not done it sooner.

      nevertheless, I believe OP wasn't aware that most of those signs and such were there anyway for other purposes and so don't really count towards the cost of the amber alert system.

    51. Re:WTF? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      My exact reaction. A neighbor's kid goes missing, law enforcement needs timely info, and people are complaining?

      Of course. Someone in a large city 90 minutes away is not "a neighbor", and the chance that I have any information about their missing kid is precisely ZERO (unless I am the abductor, and then I already know about the missing kid and am very unlikely to give information to the police about it.) And yet, I've gotten Amber alerts for just such an occurance.

      If it was your kid, you'd want the National Guard called in.

      The National Guard does not use Amber Alerts for notification, nor do they need EAS or WEAS messages to be activated. They have phone trees so they can be called personally, and much sooner than at 4AM for a 2PM abduction. Further, they have all opted-in to such calls.

      As for the people who aren't going to look, there's still a group of people who know the car.

      Yes, they're called "the police" and "public sector employees who work on the streets", and they, too, do not need EAS or WEAS to be notified of the vehicle to be looking for. The police, at least, have government-provided cell phones upon which they can receive calls or notifications, and have opted in for such. They also have very expensive radio communication systems that can broadcast the information.

      Now, as a public spirited citizen, I'm sure you want to get such notices on a regular basis. That's fine. The issue is not the notifications themselves, but that apparently some cell providers (and all landline services like this) opt people in and do not allow opting out, and that some providers don't allow either opting out or silent modes for alerts.

      You could, of course, tell me I must shut my phone off if I want to use it for the things I want to use it for and not allow the government to decide what I must hear and in what form, but that's a ridiculous position. I'm paying for the ability to use the phone when I need it, and I have services that I do need to get immediate notifications from. The fact that I have opted in to be on call 24/7 for local search and rescue should not mean I must be on call 24/7 for Amber alerts and have those alerts delivered with an abusively loud sound no matter where I am or what time of day it is.

    52. Re:WTF? by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      I know this may be difficult to wrap your head around, but a significant number of people are up and starting their day between 4 and 5 am.

      Then they can see it on the TV news before they go to work.

    53. Re:WTF? by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      No, we shouldn't allow an insane parent to annoy a whole city. They're obviously not rational, and an uninvolved person should stop the alert from going out in situations like this. Insulting people who are more rational than you are just makes you look like an idiot.

    54. Re:WTF? by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I see no reason not to set off an alert every 40 seconds on the phones of the asshats who think this alert was appropriate.

    55. Re:WTF? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Neighbor? Have you never seen NY? They woke up the entire city. Those people weren't neighbors. In fact, the child's mother took the child from children's services during a 'supervised' visit that apparently wasn't very well supervised.

    56. Re:WTF? by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      That and city living is just plain different. Where I grew up, there were only a few hundred people and so you greeted every single person that you met on the street, even if you didn't know them.

      If you tried that in NYC, you'd go nuts on the first block. Small town behavior simply doesn't scale to Manhattan.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    57. Re:WTF? by Wookact · · Score: 1

      I pull over for emergency vehicles, because it directly impacts someone on their way to help someone. I ignore amber alerts because well at 4AM I am no help to anyone, and waking me up will not assist in your search.

    58. Re:WTF? by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I see you like inventing numbers. Try these actual ones for a change: if each of those five million people finished just 1 minute less worth of work the next day because of their interrupted sleep, the collective loss would be equivalent to killing someone who still had 30 years left in the workforce. 2 minutes each and you're killing time that's equivalent to someone who has 60 years of work ahead of them. I.e. They're effectively sacrificing one lifespan in order to try and gain back another, except in this case they had little reason to expect it to work, since the alert came 12 hours after the child was kidnapped (i.e. enough time to have already driven to Chicago from New York). It was a bad trade.

      Or how about the fact that your best chance for success is in reaching the most people? Ideally they would have posted the alert before people were asleep, but since they were already 12 hours late and a good chunk of people don't start their day off by checking their phone for things that happened in the middle of the night, they may as well have waited another few hours so that they could reach more than just 10% of the city (to use your number). If 10% of the city is reachable at 4am, how many do you think are reachable at 7am? 50%? More? And that would also be at or shortly before people get on the road, which means it'd be a good time to ask people to be on the lookout for a car, since it would be fresh on their mind (not to mention that they wouldn't resent it for waking them up).

      Even more importantly, this entire system is predicated on the good will and volunteer participation of those involved. Every time they cry "Wolf!" like this they piss on that good will and give people a reason to change their mind. Once you lose those people, you won't be getting them back. How many thousands of people do you think turned off their alerts forever last night? One person's sleep may be a small sacrifice for a life, but taken collectively their choice to post that alert decreased the odds of the system working in the future with alerts that are actually decent.

      But hey, at least an Anonymous Coward on the Internet thinks it was a good idea, so I'm sure they're patting each other on the back.

    59. Re:WTF? by Rob_Bryerton · · Score: 1

      Oh noes, think of teh childrens! Oh my, a child has becomes missing.

      You know what dude, just because you've bred and your brain chemistry has changed and in the process has removed rationality from you, means exactly jack shit to the rest of the population.

      So take your guilt trips and your pathetic emotional pandering, and fuck right off.

      Sorry about the tone, and I don't normally post this stuff, but this "think of the children" shit has turned this country into a giant, paralyzed cunt.

    60. Re:WTF? by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Actually yes, the ability of 8.25 million people to sleep IS more important than 1 child's life.

    61. Re:WTF? by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 1

      They are putting the information out there so you will know a child is missing.

      A child is abducted somewhere in the US an average of every 40 seconds. There's ALWAYS a child missing. Should an alarm go off every 40 seconds 24/7 just to "put the information out there"?

    62. Re: WTF? by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      >So a child's life is less important to you then a few minutes of missing sleep?

      Yes. When they start sending out alerts to people who voluntarily opt-in within a ~1/4 mile area for lost cats, I'll stop complaining about them. And if most of my neighbors with kids agree to receive the GARFIELD Alerts, I might even re-enable the AMBER Alerts between ~noon & midnight. ;-)

    63. Re:WTF? by pla · · Score: 1

      Woosh! (or you meant to respond to the GP).

    64. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Protip: A city the size of New York, there isn't always a wealthy family's child missing. /fixed

    65. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So a child's life is less important to you then a few minutes of missing sleep?

      A child's life is more important to me than a few minutes of missing sleep. Even a small chance of identifying the car containing a missing child is more important to me than being woken up at 04:00. It is, however, less than a million times as important: so it is not a sufficient reason to wake up me and a million other people like me.

    66. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be cool if everything in the world that was more important than a few minutes of sleep woke everyone up at 4am every night. "Alert! Starving child in 3rd world country! Everybody pitch in!", "Alert! Gang shootout in progress! Swarm and apprehend!"

      Would problems get fixed if we were constantly reminded of them? Or would we learn to ignore the alerts too (summary suggests so)? Or... is crowd-sourcing a van search the only thing important enough to wake everybody up for?

    67. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lord Apathy (584315) philgp (584302)

      A uid difference of 13? posting 3 minutes after one another? Talking to yourself again there, Lord Philgp?

    68. Re:WTF? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Ask me that same question when a the driver of a school bus is tired from lack of sleep, runs a red light and is t-boned by a 14-wheeler.

      Same situation, but you're the bus driver. How important was that alert now?

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    69. Re:WTF? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because blasting a message to a couple million sleeping people about a car's license plate is a fantastic way to find the car.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    70. Re:WTF? by 14erCleaner · · Score: 1
      The problem with these statistics is that they don't count the victims recovered because of the alert. That's kind of like claiming that a tornado warning saved 50,000 lives because only 158 people were killed in Joplin, Missouri in 2011.

      In another kind of mission creep, we recently got a Pet Amber Alert call at o-dark-thirty. Holy moly, if I actually found the lost dog they were looking for I'd probably keep it, as their owners are apparently dumber than their dog. The PAA people claim to be exempt from do-not-call lists because they're an "emergency notification service". Great. Turn your phones off at night, it's only going to get worse.

      --
      Have you read my blog lately?
  14. Another Bogus Amber Alert by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not only was it stupid to send this alert to everyone's phones, it was yet another example of Amber Alert scope creep.

    Amber Alerts are meant to be restricted to cases where "the child is in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death."

    This was just another case of a non-custodial parent running off with the kid. The child was not in any imminent danger. She lost custody because of violence in her home (none of which was ever directed at the child).

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    1. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by hardtofindanick · · Score: 1

      The full article says she was bipolar and had violent issues in the past.

    2. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by Albanach · · Score: 2

      Amber Alerts are meant to be restricted to cases where "the child is in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death." [amberalert.gov]

      From the NY Times article:

      "A spokesman for the Police Department said that the so-called Amber Alert was requested after officers determined that the child could have been in imminent danger, but that it was the state police that approved and sent out the alert."

    3. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

      Of course they are going to say that, else they would have to admit they broke the rules which there is absolutely no way they would do given how stupid they already look with the 4am wake-up call to everybody.

      The woman lost custody because she was fighting ("brawling") in front of the child.

      Simply being bipolar doesn't make someone a risk for killing their kid.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      There was discussion as to whether Amber Alerts should even be used for custody cases. It jades people for when the much rarer but much more serious cases of creep kidnappings occur.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    5. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by Maltheus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And this is precisely why I tune out amber alerts. I have no interest in getting involved in domestic disputes.

    6. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by sjames · · Score: 1

      Which could be anything including violence against someone trying to give her treatment without her consent.

    7. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by EXrider · · Score: 1

      Simply being bipolar doesn't make someone a risk for killing their kid.

      I used to think like that, but as I've grown older I've realized that some people are just totally unpredictable. It depends on the severity and other combined conditions, but there are batshit crazy examples popping up in the local and national news all the time. People say things like "oh I knew she was crazy, but I never thought she'd do something like that!", yeah we aren't all qualified psychological evaluators and apparently even those who are qualified make mistakes as well.

      --
      grep -iw skynet /etc/services
    8. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are conflating "bi-polar" with "totally unpredictable" and "totally unpredictable" with at risk for killing their child.

      Realize that means you are saying over 2% of US adults might kill their children.

    9. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A spokesman for the Police Department said that the so-called Amber Alert was requested after officers determined that the child could have been in imminent danger, but that it was the state police that approved and sent out the alert."

      Note the operative term is "could have been" not "is" (or "was" if you want to use the correct tense) which is what the amber alert requirements call for.

    10. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      More likely they were doing a different kind of ass-covering. If they didn't send out an alert and the kid was hurt they would be blamed. Better for them to wake everyone up at 4AM and say "we did everything we could" than to face questions about why no alert was put out.

      Therefore if there is even a 0.01% chance of the child being harmed you can expect an Amber Alert.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:Another Bogus Amber Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you hate children?

  15. LINK IS NOT WORKING by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Link link is not working unless you are registred (and paid) to that newspaper. Please stop linking such articles that are impossible to read (what's the point?!)

  16. Not the indented result? by sharkey · · Score: 1

    likely not the indented result of last night's exercise

    Really? People are getting all worked up over paragraph formatting when there's an emergency going on?

    --

    --
    "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    1. Re:Not the indented result? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:Not the indented result? by EvanED · · Score: 1

      WOOOOwoooooWWOOOOOwwooooo!!!

      Alert! Alert!

      Joe has push a commit using tabs instead of spaces!

      wooooooWOOOOOwooooWOOOOOO

    3. Re:Not the indented result? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      likely not the indented result of last night's exercise

      Really? People are getting all worked up over paragraph formatting when there's an emergency going on?

      That IS an emergency, you insensitive clod!

  17. "indented result?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even by the standards of Crappy Slashdot Typos, that's a Crappy Slashdot Typo.

  18. My previous comment by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Right here on /. I predicted (and was shot down) that this alert system was going to be used badly. The simple reason is that every bureaucrat thinks their job is so very important. Thus any government weenie who got their hands on it would start sending out "helpful" messages. A missing child is not the worst use for this but per usual the government did it about as badly as they could; The message being basically useless.

    What they need to do is to make an opt in system with levels that you can opt into. Level 1 would be for situations where nearly everyone's life is peril. Say a poison gas leak where going outside will kill you. The Boston bombers manhunt would not count as level 1. Level 2 would be a warning about something that could kill you such as to stay away from an area as there is a poison gas leak there. Level 3 would be Lost children who have been taken by bad people (not a custody case) Level 4 would be things like weather alerts.

    But my guess is that the government is going to be captain obvious with most of their alerts and tell people that a storm is coming (that has been in the news for 3 straight days), then it will be political messages of grief and loss (i.e. "My heart goes out to those who...") , and eventually things like reminders to vote and recycle.

    But being the government they believe that their mission is so very important that people should not be able to opt out of this crap. The key is that people need to not be treated like children and the government should not have any special rights. If people want to opt out then they are clearly stating "I don't want your crap".

    1. Re:My previous comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... every bureaucrat thinks their job ...

      I think of it as 'my needs are more valuable than your needs'. It a common attitude made more dangerous since bureaucrats don't have to worry about losing their 'customers'.

    2. Re:My previous comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What they need to do is allow you to turn off the annoying sound it makes, SEPARATE from turning off the alert. Pretty simple, but Android developers just can't seem to figure these things out.

    3. Re:My previous comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right here on /. I predicted (and was shot down) that this alert system was going to be used badly. The simple reason is that every bureaucrat thinks their job is so very important. Thus any government weenie who got their hands on it would start sending out "helpful" messages. A missing child is not the worst use for this but per usual the government did it about as badly as they could; The message being basically useless. [...]
      But being the government they believe that their mission is so very important that people should not be able to opt out of this crap. The key is that people need to not be treated like children and the government should not have any special rights. If people want to opt out then they are clearly stating "I don't want your crap".

      And on cue, the self-righteous, cynical turds are proclaiming "I told you so" except...
      1) The process is opt-in except for "national emergencies" of which in the several years of the system there have been 0 (your vendor simply didn't choose to implement it properly if you were automatically opted in to all alerts)
      2) there is a silent alert option on almost all phones (again, thank your vendor, govt had nothing to do with it)
      3) this is one example where a message reached too broad an audience, a sample size of 1 hardly constitutes data on the performance of the system as a whole

      Please, tell us more about how you are right about everything [/sarcasm]

    4. Re:My previous comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crowd sourcing policing (and capture) is becoming a trend. You all may not like it, but when you are the victim, or for instance /. is DoS attacked and asks for help.... you'all will be for it.

    5. Re:My previous comment by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      THIS IS NOT NEW! This is simply an extension of the existing alert system (a direct descendant of CONELRAD in the '60s) to cellphones. Previously it applied (with the exact same rules!) to cable companies, broadcast TV and radio, weather radio, etc. Specifically the Presidential alert that everybody seems to be annoyed about has been in place since the very beginning.

      And I don't know why you put weather alerts lower down than a poisonous gas. You must not have lived in a tornado-prone area.

      I receive these alerts on my cell phone. I appreciate knowing when a severe thunderstorm warning or flash flood warning is issued - I've gotten both while I was outside and away from anything else to notify me. I was actually woken up by this AMBER alert thing, and I was annoyed, but I turned off AMBER alerts specifically and went back to sleep.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    6. Re:My previous comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The simple reason is that every bureaucrat thinks their job is so very important. ...

      But being the government they believe that their mission is so very important that people should not be able to opt out of this crap.

      Surely this is more about the usual asymmetric risks faced by civil servants. If a child turns up dead people are going to be angry and want their 'pound of flesh' from someone. If the abductor is missing or dead they will instead attack the bureaucrat who decided it wasn't important enough to send out an alert over. Look at the people above you posting 'but it was a CHILD in DANGER'.

      It's a big problem in the UK because of the attitude of the tabloids. Whenever a kid gets killed by abusive parents there is always anger at social services or the teachers because it's always 'obvious' to tabloid editors (with the benefit of hindsight) that they should have taken the kid into care at an earlier stage.

    7. Re:My previous comment by nbauman · · Score: 1

      The simple reason is that every bureaucrat thinks their job is so very important. Thus any government weenie who got their hands on it would start sending out "helpful" messages. A missing child is not the worst use for this but per usual the government did it about as badly as they could; The message being basically useless.

      It's not government weenies who are responsible for this, it's lobbying groups. It started out with legitimate problems, such as laws against help-wanted ads that said, "White Christian gentleman," and laws against KKK lynchings. Once they got enhanced penalties for crimes against black people, everybody wanted in -- Jews, women, the elderly, the handicapped, etc.

      One of the problems is that a lobbying group thinks its a success if they can get the penalties increased for breaking the laws they're promoting. That contributes to the draconian jail terms in our prisons. So Mothers Against Drunken Driving got the penalties for drunken driving lengthened. The drug war people got the penalties for marijuana, cocaine, etc. lengthened. The anti-sex people made it a felony for teenagers to have sex. And I don't have to tell you about the anti-abortion movement.

      The underlying problem is that voters vote for politicians who push things like this. A lot of the government weenies don't want to do these things at all, but it's popular among the voters. So blame the voters.

    8. Re:My previous comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up you fucking douchebag.

    9. Re:My previous comment by SecurityGuy · · Score: 1

      You go from properly skeptical here:

      Right here on /. I predicted (and was shot down) that this alert system was going to be used badly.

      to ridiculously optimistic here:

      The Boston bombers manhunt would not count as level 1.

      Come on. Boston would have been level 0. They shut the entire CITY down, and you think they're not going to overreact on the alerts?
         

    10. Re:My previous comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Level 1 would be for situations where nearly everyone's life is peril. Say a poison gas leak where going outside will kill you.

      If stepping outside will kill you, then you're dead already, thanks to PV=nRT.

    11. Re:My previous comment by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      I think they are not only going to overreact on alerts but that they will start using them willy nilly. The alert that would piss me off the most would be a message of condolence. If this had been in place on 9/11 a situation where the public knew as much as the government (thus no alerts needed) that they wouldn't have had their PR flacs put together a sincere message to all those affected in this time of crisis. They also know that when there is a crisis that nobody will complain about their stupid messages as those people would look bad. Yet the message itself would be an example of a government that was impotent trying to look like they are doing something.

      My key complaint is that governments should be very careful about granting themselves special powers and rights that aren't given to the public. If you go to Soviet(still) Russia the officials still rush around in special convoys with blue lights where everyone has to get out of their way. If people want these messages the service should be available for anyone who wants to opt in.

    12. Re:My previous comment by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      Wet towels under the door. Wet cloth across your face. Plus it does take time for gasses to diffuse past closed windows.

  19. Phone Alerts by agrisea · · Score: 0

    Do none of your phones have an OFF button? You know, turn the phone off at night or must you be reachable 24/7/365?

    --
    Agrisea Tsunami - Epyc Servers... https://agrisea.net/products
  20. Stupid ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    So they're going to forcible alert everybody for everything now?

    People will rapidly start tuning them out or finding ways to disable it.

    Do not go straight to "notify everybody every time anything happens" -- because then you're just crying wolf.

    What next, go beyond wireless and automatically phone every land line? This is so incredibly stupid it isn't funny -- if you have a missing child, don't call me about it.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Stupid ... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      What next, go beyond wireless and automatically phone every land line?

      You're at least two years late for that party. Yes, automatically phone every land line.

      Our local government has contracted with this company to do just that. Whenever they want to let us all know of some problem, this is how they'll let us know.

      Fortunately, there has yet to be an instance when they decided to use this for real. Perhaps that's because when they tested the system (during the day) they actually had to activate the emergency operations center and bring people in to answer the phones, because of the volume of calls from people who got home and found the message on their answering machine and called 911 to find out what was going on. That's after a saturation blitz on news and radio telling people that there would be a test of this system and when it was going to happen.

      Or perhaps they've had second thoughts about the system after I spent 30 minutes on the phone with the company, and another hour on the phone with the local government droid responsible for the system, explaining the phrases "opt out" and "opt in" and that I was choosing to opt out of such a moronic system. (The answer was: you cannot opt out. The FTC do-not-call list does not apply. There is no provision in the software to opt anyone out. The laws regarding direct instructions to someone not to call again do not apply.)

      Or perhaps I actually was successful in opting out and they've been reporting all kinds of bad things going on to everyone else and I've just lucky to still be alive.

      This is so incredibly stupid it isn't funny -- if you have a missing child, don't call me about it.

      The idea that they are wasting millions of people's time forcing people to deal with Amber alerts is not understandable to them. Think of the children.

    2. Re: Stupid ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can call every land line. It is called reverse-911.

    3. Re:Stupid ... by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      Notifying everybody isn't necessarily a bad idea, but do it over a free text message, don't make people's phones shriek in the night.

  21. Citys / counties to big for the system by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Citys / counties to big for the system?

    I used deal with BS like this on cable floods and other stuff any where in the same big county used to trigger the sound cut off / on screen text. (added by the cable co and not the local tv channels)

    Meany years ago and only on the SD channels. I have directv now so I don't get this stuffed added by the cable co.

  22. Nothing wrong with alerts by hardtofindanick · · Score: 1

    But clearly the phones need to provide better software so that people can block alerts by time of occurence. e.g., all those naysayers could block alerts between 10pm-7am had the software allowed.

    1. Re:Nothing wrong with alerts by Proteus · · Score: 1

      If there is a real civil emergency, you need the system to notify people whether they want the notification or not. The problem is that the city used this emergency notification system to tell people about a risk to one single individual.

      --
      We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
  23. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  24. Crying Wolf by ki85squared · · Score: 2

    This has happened at least four times in the last year or so in Atlanta. Amber alerts get treated by many phones as any other emergency alert, and they happen to go out between 1 and 4 am to the entire metro area, so the missing child could be up to 50 miles away. A lot of my friends have turned off emergency alerts completely because of this.

  25. too many "crying wolf" by peter303 · · Score: 2

    Too many custody battle child-nappings or teen runaways. When you get a rare stranger kidnapping, how would you know then?

  26. Misleading title and the summary didn't clarify by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read this and thought the Amber Alert system was more alike an air-raid siren, y'know actually waking up the whole city, not sending an over-zealous text to subscribers. I had a V for Vendetta moment there thinking you had bull-horns on poles broadcasting propaganda and subliminal messages but then I remembered you have Fox for that.

    A group-text was sent by mistake. News for nerds? Stuff that matters? Really?

    1. Re:Misleading title and the summary didn't clarify by PPH · · Score: 1

      Some alerts I want waking me up. Like tornado, hurricane, etc. Others, I do not. If I get woken up too many times by useless alerts, I'll turn off my phone. So will others. And then the system becomes useless. It needs some priority levels or message types upon which we can filter.

      Oh and by the way: Stop recruiting me to help solve custody battles and other pissing matches between members of the Jerry Springer demographic.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Misleading title and the summary didn't clarify by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hurricane? do those magically appear or something where you need an alert?

    3. Re:Misleading title and the summary didn't clarify by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      I don't know about the GP poster, but unless the weather's trying actively to kill me, I generally don't care enough to keep up with it. That's what we have buildings for -- to keep it away from us. Now when it gets good and angry enough to make an attempt on me and my neighbors, I do appreciate the warning.

      --
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  27. Two Minutes Hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Participation is not optional citizen.

  28. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  29. Never got the alert by Lew+Perin · · Score: 1

    Not that I'm complaining, of course, but I never got the alert, and I live right across the street from NYC's Office of Emergency Management. I'm curious about why my phone never got the message, because who knows, I might want to get alerted the next time something like Sandy blows into town.

    Speaking of Sandy, I did receive a text message alert or 2 during the storm, which presumably means my phone is capable of getting the messages. Could the reason be that I switched carriers around New Year's? (ATT to T-Mobile, if it matters.)

    --
    Sorry, I forgot there are ads on the Web; I use Lynx.
    1. Re:Never got the alert by awyeah · · Score: 1

      I believe it depends on both the carrier and the device. I know AT&T and Verizon have implemented this in many areas. On the iPhone, I believe iOS 6.x and above supports it, but it needs to be enabled on the device by the carrier. I just had the options appear on my phone after a carrier file update a few weeks ago.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    2. Re:Never got the alert by Lew+Perin · · Score: 1

      What do the options look like? (I'm up to date on iOS 6.x.)

      --
      Sorry, I forgot there are ads on the Web; I use Lynx.
    3. Re:Never got the alert by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Mine are under "Settings->Notifications". I scroll all the way to the bottom and see Amber Alert and Emergency Alert. The Presidential Alert isn't visible.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    4. Re:Never got the alert by awyeah · · Score: 1

      Go into Settings -> Notifications and scroll all the way to the bottom, there are two switches there. If you don't have them, then probably your carrier doesn't support it yet.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    5. Re:Never got the alert by Lew+Perin · · Score: 1

      Not there. Oh, well, T-Mobile tends to be slow to push things at iPhone users. In my book, they're still a better deal than ATT, though. Thanks for the info!

      --
      Sorry, I forgot there are ads on the Web; I use Lynx.
  30. Re:Same thing in Boston when the Alerts went live. by SecurityGuy · · Score: 2

    Or not, because moving often means driving and if I'm driving you really shouldn't encourage me to read my phone.

  31. Already done by SIGBUS · · Score: 2

    There already are levels to the alert system. I wasted no time turning off Amber alerts after receiving one, but I'm leaving the the other ones activated for now. I think it's a bit stupid to use the EBS tone for Amber alerts, in any case; it should be reserved for things like severe weather, zombie apocalypse, etc. If a tornado is heading for my area at 2 AM, I want to know about it.

    There's a "Presidential alert" that can't be disabled, though. Hopefully, it won't ever be used (because it's likely that it will mean that World War III has started).

    --
    Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
    1. Re:Already done by awyeah · · Score: 1

      One thing I have noticed is that the alerts I've received haven't always come on time. The best way to be alerted to a severe weather situation is with a NOAA Weather Radio.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    2. Re:Already done by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      Interesting. You may want to complain to your cell company. I once was watching a severe thunderstorm come in and the radio, TV, phone, and computer all went off within about ~5 seconds of each other (TV (via cable) was actually last). I assumed it was just some common feed for all of them.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    3. Re:Already done by awyeah · · Score: 1

      It often is a common feed. This is how the emergency alert system works, at least as I understand it - but note that I am no expert. I'll use an example of a weather alert.

      Weather warning is issued by the National Weather Service. The alert goes out (with the EAS tones, which actually contain modulated data containing information about the type of alert, the geographical area, timing, etc.) via NOAA Weather Radio.

      Your local radio station(s), TV station(s), and cable provider(s) have a device, such as a Sage EAS ENDEC, which is tuned to the weather radio station. When an alert goes out, if it's on the list of "important" alerts, this device will preempt programming - the broadcaster usually has no direct control over it - automatically to get the alert out there.

      This is probably why you heard all of them at the same time.

      There is also a situation where some broadcasters listen to other broadcasters. For example, in my area, we have a 50,000 watt AM station (it actually covers something like 37 states on good days). When a tornado warning is issued, first it's the weather radio, then it's said AM station, and then everyone else, because everyone else gets it from the AM station.

      There's much more to it than that, but that's how I understand it. Hope that helps.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
  32. It happened in New York? by slugstone · · Score: 1

    I thought it was the city that never sleeps.

  33. Title is correct but didn't clarify. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The alert system is not a "group text", it triggers a special alarm on the phones that support it. Most of the phones that support this alarm support it at maxmium volume.

    Which you'd have known if you had bothered to read some of the messages above you before whining to all of us about how you're an ignorant little git.

    1. Re:Title is correct but didn't clarify. by Minwee · · Score: 4, Funny

      Which you'd have known if you had bothered to read some of the messages above you before whining to all of us about how you're an ignorant little git.

      Wow, someone's cranky. Did you not get enough sleep last night?

    2. Re:Title is correct but didn't clarify. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PETA sued and got animals included in the amber alert system where he lives. It goes off every time someone loses their cat, dog or goldfish. He only averages 4 hours of sleep per night now.

  34. Some bureaucrat with a new toy... by gman003 · · Score: 1

    Several of the public schools around me have gotten new robocall systems, meant to be used to mass-alert all parents when something happens. School closings, emergencies, stuff like that.

    Naturally, the school principals have been quick to send out mass calls for anything, up to and including announcing dates for sporting events. I hear quite a bit of grumbling from people about this.

    Basically, if you give anyone a way to easily send a message to a large number of people, they will find an excuse to use it. Hell, we saw that with spam - it was so easy to send emails by the thousands that we had to pass laws against it, and we *still* haven't solved the problem.

    That's what happened here. Someone found an excuse to use their shiny toy and feel important, and they used it, despite the fact that a) the circumstances did not really justify such a response, and b) the message sent was not even good at solving the problem.

    1. Re:Some bureaucrat with a new toy... by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      If they're just grumbling, they're part of the problem. The effective response is to organize a bunch of annoyed parents and meet with the school admins to put an end to the non-emergency calls.

  35. In this case, yes. by Valdrax · · Score: 2

    In this case, a child was stolen away from child services by his mother in the middle of a supervised visit. While the woman was bipolar and could have been a theoretical risk to her child (why she didn't have custody in the first place), this is not the sort of child abduction scenario most people envisioned when the Amber Alert system was put into place.

    Additionally, most of the people contacted were in no position to help. And I doubt the alert was timely since it's highly unlikely that this woman has given a supervised visitation at a social services facility just shy of 4:00 AM. This means that the situation most likely had been developing for hours, and the alert should have gone out when it was likely she'd still be driving with the child. That means the information was most likely useless to everyone who received it. Contacting them caused them harm with no benefit to the child.

    I mean, really, what do you expect people to do? Get up, get out of bed, get dressed, and go hunting around their block for cars matching the description? At 4:00 AM? Or should they just lie there in bed, frustrated at their powerlessness to help a child that somewhere is maybe suffering?

    What is the appropriate reaction in your mind that shows ones priorities are in place?

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  36. Wait... what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The biological mother abducted the child from a social service facility during a supervised visit. This is a baby, and a social service facility... meaning this visit almost certainly occurred during daylight.

    Why, exactly, did this alert go out at 3:51AM?

    1. Re:Wait... what? by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      Because they waited hours and hours until they decided to send the alert, and for some reason couldn't wait a few hours more. It's a shame, because they just forced a ton of people to opt out of the alerts.

  37. How about some editing, editors? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    (likely not the indented result of last night's exercise).

    Likely not the intended spelling of "intended."

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:How about some editing, editors? by betterprimate · · Score: 1

      "(likely not the
                            result of last night's exercise)."

      It's enjambment
                            of course.

  38. Re:Same thing in Boston when the Alerts went live. by k6mfw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Alarm fatigue is what it's called. When there is simply one alert after another and becomes routine, then it really is not an alert after all (or at least how your brain will be conditioned).

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
  39. MA Alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got one of these alerts in Central MA, along with a lot of friends and family, a month or two back. AMBER alert was one of them, also got a flood warning, both in the middle of the goddamned night. My Android phone did it, others' iPhones...

    Shut off all of them after the flood warning. If I'm going to die, I'm going to die WELL RESTED.

  40. ENTIRE state of Florida by Bodero · · Score: 1

    Back in January, the ENTIRE state of Florida was awaken by an emergency Amber alert sent to their phones:

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/early-morning-amber-alert-catches-florida-residents-by-surprise/1270496

  41. Re:Wait till we starte getting OBAMA ALERTS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yep, just like how we kept getting constant Reagan alerts back in the Good Days(tm)! Man, those repeated Gerald Ford alerts that we got were annoying, weren't they? The Nixon alerts, though, those were great! Taught those damned hippies their place!

    Or you can figure out that what you said was bullshit and we've had this exact same system in place for decades , just for TV and radio? Or is it different now that you've learned it's also on your achingly precious shiny shiny smartphone? I can assure you, people back then treated their radios and TVs exactly the same way you treat your phone. But then again, I guess they didn't delude themselves into thinking that they would eventually someday maybe once they feel like it use them to do anything other than consume content.

  42. Turn the alrerts off by bobjr94 · · Score: 1

    T-mobile did the same thing here in WA 6 months ago, they started sending out an amber alert at 3am and we kept getting these alerts every 20 minutes for hours until we turned the phones off. We still kept getting them that night even 10-12 hours after the missing boy was found. Finally found a setting in our phones to disable all these alerts.

  43. The reason is quite clear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In this surveillance state you are are expected to do you part to protect the state as a whole. if you don't then you must be a terrorist and there for not be allowed to partake in the states protection of you. Your choice executed or jailed.

    ()-()

  44. Not just Amber but Silver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in NYC we also get SILVER alerts (via NYC text / email alert system not the EAS system). SILVER is for when old people go missing!

  45. MODERATORS! ATTENTION!!! MOD PARENT DOWN!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please don't feed the trolls. Regardless of what anyone thinks (and I disagree with "Lord Apathy") he is slinging flamebait. Please mod him accordingly.

  46. Mod parent up by Valdrax · · Score: 1

    It's my alarm clock.

    It's NOT the government's alarm clock for me.

    I rely on my phone for an alarm clock (one that actually tracks the depth of my sleep and wakes me at the most appropriate moment), and I do not appreciate it being co-opted at that time of the night.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  47. Overkill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we're going to issue an amber alert every time some meth-head runs off with her get, nobody's going to get any sleep.

  48. Re:Wait till we starte getting OBAMA ALERTS! by Ksevio · · Score: 1

    There hasn't been a Presidential alert, but it's part of the EBS system for cases like World War III or Alien invasions.

  49. Re:Wait till we starte getting OBAMA ALERTS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quit spreading FUD with your tea party paranoid delusions. If a president regardless of party were to use the emergency alert system for political campaigning, that president would come under fire from both parties and the media for doing so. It would also be a severe violation of campaign finance laws. It's not going to happen. So please start taking your medication and start thinking rationally.

  50. Re:Wait till we starte getting OBAMA ALERTS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Deja vu.
    I feel like I've read this exact comment on a similar story before.

  51. Non Emergency Alerts by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    At my place of work, we normally reserve emergency alerts for real emergencies like "Active shooter" or "Hurricane bearing on city, seek shelter". Then last year, someone decided that sending notifications about free flu vaccinations would be a good use of emergency alerts, so I got a text message, two phone calls, and two emails about availability of flu vaccine.

  52. Mount St. Helens by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

    When Mount St. Helens blew nothing happened announcement wise, and there were a lot of complains about it.

    A few days (week?) later Mount St. Helens burped, the local radio advised everybody about it, giving all sorts of
    useless information. then the emergency broadcast was set off, it was the same lines word for word of
    the news alert yet not a recording. Local station didn't want to be scooped, and the ones that activate the alert.

    I was on my back repairing the car yet still floored over it.

    And the burp? Didn't do anything or bother anyone not on the mountain itself.

  53. Get use to it citizen by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    and report on your neighbour when we text you.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  54. Facts - can you try some please.... by DontScotty · · Score: 1

    Everyone was aware of the impending Mt St Helens activity... for about sixty days, including a state of emergency declared over 30 days before the main event...

    20th March, 1980
    Moderate earthquake under volcano signified rising magma.

    25th March
    Mountain closed to climbers.

    27th March
    First eruption in 123 years. Ash emitted to 3 km into the air and a small crater formed on the summit.

    30th March
    Sightseers flocked to area.

    3rd April
    State of emergency declared.

    17th April
    Risk of landslide recognised on the volcano north flank.

    22nd April - 7th May
    Volcano stopped erupting but bulging continued. By 27th April the bulge measured 2.5 km across and protruded 80 m.

    7th May
    Large earthquakes under volcano. Ash and steam emissions resumed after two weeks of quiet.

    12th May
    A larger than normal earthquake caused a one kilometer long avalanche down the north slope.

    14th May.
    Only small eruptions.

    15th May
    No eruptions.

    17th May.
    30 car loads of residents enter the restricted zone to gather possessions.

    18th May 1980
    The large eruption began at 8:32 am.
    An earthquake shook loose the upper northern flank of the volcano. About 3 cubic km of of the mountain slid down in a massive avalanche at 250 km/hr.
    The avalanche released pressure on the volcano and unleashed a huge explosion. A 300-500 km/hr blast of hot gases and fractured rock covered 600 sq km in minutes. 30 seconds after the initial blast the volcano released a Plinian eruption column of ash which rose to a height of 25 km in 15 minutes. The ash reaches Spokane 430 km away in 3½ hours. From noon until 5:30 pm nuee ardentes swept 8 km down the northern slopes of the volcano at 300 km/hr. Mudflows raged down the side of the volcan and were caused by melting of the snow on the mountain.

    Effects of the eruption.
    57 people were killed.
    400 m lost from the height of the mountain.
    Total damage bill one billion dollars.

    http://www.volcanolive.com/sthelens.html

    1. Re:Facts - can you try some please.... by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 2

      Everyone was aware of the impending Mt St Helens activity... for about sixty days, including a state of emergency declared over 30 days before the main event...

      Camping that weekend, breakfast heard an explosion and I joked Mount St. Helens blew. Packed up
      and left the valley about 5:00pm when we saw the sky. Living in Texas I've seen tornado clouds and what it looked like.

      Stopping in for more beer I asked whats with the weather, and told it was Mount St. Helens.

      No emergency devices, no radio alerts nada thus the first part of the sentence
      "When Mount St. Helens blew nothing happened announcement wise,"

      Now build up, and afterwards there's lots of stats and stuff; but it was the evening news on T.V. we learned anything of the event itself.

      Second part of the first sentence "and there were a lot of complains about it." brought about this radio alert of something that
      mattered little to anybody outside of a very small radius.

    2. Re:Facts - can you try some please.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, you were in Texas.

      The rest of the nation was aware.

  55. Re:Wait till we starte getting OBAMA ALERTS! by DontScotty · · Score: 1

    The WTC Tower attacks that happened in 2001 - since those were so well covered by news media - the Presidential Alert System /EBS wasn't even activated...

  56. Abuse of System by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    "many have taken the step of deactivating these alerts to avoid future jolting mid-slumber alarms"

    The system is a very bad idea - no matter whether it is texts, phone calls, emails or what ever. Abuses like this will push people to turn off their links to the system. Justifying such systems is mere fascist totalitarianism.

    1. Re:Abuse of System by joe_frisch · · Score: 1

      If I ever receive an alert that does not represent an imminent and serious threat to safety in my immediate area, I will find a way to turn off the service - with a hammer if necessary. You only get to cry wolf once.

      The concept of alerts is valuable, but worthless if it is misused even once.

      There was a similar situation where residents of a coastal area with an approaching hurricane were told that it was "certain death" to stay. Many stayed and most (maybe all) lived. Next time there is a real "certain death" 'warning in that area it will be ignored .

  57. And so far by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    It has never been used. Remember this is all just part of the Emergency Alert System, the thing radio and TV has had forever. It is just integrated in to phones now, since more people are using those. The president has always had the ability to issue an alert on radio and TV. The FCC 'owns' the public airwaves, they can demand their use, if needed.

    So far, even during 9/11, there has never been a presidential alert. So clearly they save it only for the really, really, big things, hence why you can't turn it off.

    1. Re:And so far by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      The Emergency Broadcast System only impinges on me when I am actively using the radio or TV. The Presidential Alerts will impinge on me even when I'm not using my phone at the moment.

      I shouldn't have to give up being able to get important emergency contacts, from people I know, in order to guarantee that a Presidential Alert doesn't worm its way onto my phone.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    2. Re:And so far by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking that seeing as PAs have never been used, when it does appear on your phone your impingement will be minor compared to the impingement from whatever the alert was impinging you for.

      Impinge. That word gets weirder and weirder every time I type it. IMPINGE.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    3. Re:And so far by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that the PA system has only been around for about two years. I don't think that's enough time to write it off as something that won't be misused, especially since T-Mobile already did so.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
  58. or star trek by citylivin · · Score: 1

    The TNG episode where suddenly everyone is jacked into a google glass like "game", and wesley crusher and i believe ashley judd are the only ones immune. Only instead of a game, it is now a smart phone, and I am wesley crusher without a smart phone or ashley judd.

    That's what I am thinking reading all these comments. Seriously, does everyone have a always on internet connected smartphone these days??

    You have internet at work, internet at home. Do you really need it while you are traveling from work to home as well? Do you really need internet access when you are out supposedly spending time outside, away from the internet? or is that not an acceptable thing anymore. Smart phones drive me crazy, but everyone seems to have them!!

    --
    As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    1. Re:or star trek by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      You assume that the internet is something one would want to spend time away from.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  59. What is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Excuse me for being a stupid foreigner.
    But how is this message delivered? On which devices?
    By the comments it seems to be on cellphones but do phones sold in America has a special feature for this?

  60. EAS is annoying by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    EAS alerts can be helpful, but they have become so abused that 90% of the alerts are not actually emergencies, and most frequently are not even close to being emergencies worthy of alerting everyone with a cell phone.

    A confirmed tornado is an emergency. Doppler readings favorable for tornado formation are not.

    An amber alert is not an emergency, let alone activating EAS for the initial alert and every 10 minutes thereafter with a repeat of the original message.

    A fast-spreading wildfire is an emergency for the people in the affected area. A car fire on the interstate is not.

    A suspicious person in the area is not an emergency.

    I've gotten alerts for all of these. I ultimately just turned them all off. If I hear thunder, I check out my Weatherbug Elite. If I smell smoke, I look outside for the fire. I quite frankly no longer care if some negligent parent failed at their duty to protect their child.

    I don't see how they expected any other outcome when they started expanding the scope of what constitutes an "emergency."

  61. YEEEEEAAAAHAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! 8) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wasn't this a plot of a CSI episode? For real.

  62. Alerts by ralphaostrander · · Score: 1

    I use to watch TV at night but now I dont. If I fall asleep that damn alert wakes me. I cant opt out so I pitched the bedroom tv. I might bring it back with a ruko box to watch and ditch cable.

  63. Re:Same thing in Boston when the Alerts went live. by hokeyru · · Score: 1

    Or it could just be silent. If I'm sleeping, I'm not about to go looking for a suspect automobile, anyway.

  64. where's the... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    snooze button?

  65. Badly implemented. by Askmum · · Score: 1

    So... all these people could have gotten a message or phonecall from just anyone during the night? Then what are they bitching about?

    Where I live, AMBER alerts are normally sent only between 6 AM and 10 PM. You have to take action yourself to enable receiving messages during the night. That's not such a strange thing to implement. Why hasn't NYPD implemented that? I'm sure the technology is sophisticated enough that you should also be able to specify an interval where you don't want to receive alerts yourself.

  66. Really? by ledow · · Score: 1

    Please note: I'm a Brit. That nation that Americans love to berate as the 1984 of the modern world. I live in London, the most populous city in the country, 33 times more population dense than New York.

    THE VERY FIRST TIME that a government (or organisation) sends an emergency alert to my phone that isn't related to a DIRECT DANGER that I am LIKELY to need to avoid, the system used to send it goes in the bin. Smartphone, email, web-interception, text message, phone call, whatever.

    Solicited or not. Decreed from the top or not. Turn-off-able or not. As you can probably tell from my attitude - it has NEVER happened in 20+ years of me owning a mobile phone, or my lifetime of owning a landline. Not during bus bombings. Not during IRA attacks. Not during attacks on airports. Not even school attacks with guns.

    If a child goes missing, put it on the news, with photos of the suspect and child.

    If there's a tornado or fire that might burn my house down, send the police around to inform residents and evacuate them. Don't rely on the little old lady having a cellphone and answering it at 4am and evacuating herself.

    If there's a chemical leak or terrorist attack that covers a huge area and endangers thousands of lives, sure. You can send a text message to **local** cell masts AND send round the police then.

    If a school is taken hostage by a gun-toting maniac - quite what do you think a message that targets ANYONE but those on the school premises is going to do apart from incite panic and worsen the situation? Campus alerts? Never even HEARD of such a thing over here (I work in schools!), but we probably do have them in some places if you look hard enough even if they are never used.

    But, hell, the very, very, very first time I ever get a text from an official source about an emergency where my life is not - in all probability - in danger, complaints will be made AND the device will go in the bin.

    Emergency alerts to everyone in the middle of the night for a missing child? Sorry, with all the sympathy in the world for the parent's plight, you simply cannot do that on the scale of even a small city.

    Plus, we've seen the hackability of these alerts already. How long until some rogue element tells people of an emergency, informs them to gather in the street at point X and then blows them all up / incites a riot / raids the bank vault while everyone is away?

    Yet again, the US has accepted something as necessary and "the norm" that other countries would recoil in horror at the mere suggestion of putting the concept to the populous. I have no doubt we do have an emergency broadcast system of some kind. The fact is that we've NEVER used it, and certainly not for missing children.

    We don't have as many natural disasters, granted. We have, however, had more terrorism against us in the last 100 years than the US has. Just the IRA bombings in London alone were so frequent and deadly that they lost all effectiveness in terms of "terror" ("What was that?" "Oh, probably just the IRA again - going to have to check the bloody Tube timetable again now to get to work on time..."), and the IRA eventually became politicians and rioters instead.

    But missing-person alerts? Rogue nutters? Probably we have our fair share on the same scale. Hell, a soldier walking along a street in London was beheaded for no reason only the other day and the guy who did it gave interviews to the camera. It was a news story for a day. The funeral was a news story for a day. End of.

    God, we'd jam our phones solid worrying about that kind of shit.

  67. Cry wolf syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they keep this up, it will become like car alarms, nobody will care.

  68. Sleep more important than.... by buck-yar · · Score: 1

    So sleep is more important than finding an abducted or missing child? What kind of self absorbed useless garbage inhabit NYC? Reminds me of the opening scene in Boondock Saints when nobody would help a screaming murder victim. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwIJ9pRWBpo

  69. Re:Same thing in Boston when the Alerts went live. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... is what it's called ...

    I prefer the original name: Crying 'wolf'.

    ... one alert after another ...

    This could be the consequence of so many things. If it doesn't kill someone, of course it'll be ignored.

  70. Turn your phone off when you go to sleep by maiden_taiwan · · Score: 1

    While NYC was at fault here, why sleep with a potential wake-up-machine next to you? Next time it won't be an Amber alert, but a drunk buddy who's lost track of the time. Why risk it?

  71. Weather Radios by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    I have a weather radio and the only alerts you cannot shut off are warnings for hurricane, tornado, fire, and some BS National Emergency. Seems a rational approach for mobile as well.

    And yes, Amber Alerts are now also broadcast on 'weather' radios (thankfully they can be shut off too).

  72. It's not jsut New York by rlp122 · · Score: 1

    The same thing happened in Atlanta about three weeks ago. An Amber alert went off at 2:44am on the Emergency Broadcast Network.

  73. AMBER Alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    7. What are AMBER Alerts?
    AMBER Alerts are urgent bulletins issued in the most serious child-abduction cases. The America’s Missing: Broadcast Emergency Response (AMBER) Alert Program is a voluntary partnership between law-enforcement agencies, broadcasters, transportation agencies, and the wireless industry.

  74. Re:Wait till we starte getting OBAMA ALERTS! by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

    More like an alert that there's been a serious attack on our country or a major natural disaster. It's pure wingnut derp to suggest that it would be used to track the ignorant teabaggers.

  75. If it were your kid... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it was you kid that was missing; you'd be waking up everybody you could, in order to have any chance of finding them -- no matter how small.

    1. Re:If it were your kid... by aggemam · · Score: 1

      I have many interests of my own, too, sure. Doesn't mean anyone else should care.

  76. Keep your phone out of the bedroom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got the alert too - I live in NYC - but since my phone is set to vibrate and lives in my purse, and my purse stays in the living room when I'm home, it didn't wake me. What are all these people doing keeping their phone right by their bed? If you're not a cop, doctor, or otherwise on call for work, why would you chance it? I used to get bugged at about 9 am a lot, and it interrupted me at work. My number was apparently the previous number of the mother of a "Christopher Garcia". Christopher, whoever he was, wasn't good about going to school, and when he did he got into all kinds of trouble there, The school called me about 10 times informing me he was truant or had done something before I finally managed to convince them that I not only wasn't Christopher's mother, but I had no idea who he was. They couldn't get their records straight. Needless to say, I didn't want to hear about it.

  77. of course the submitter doesn't mention by chemosh6969 · · Score: 1

    that the kid was found and it was because of the alert and yes, they had been kidnapped. no, not everyone is asleep at that time, so he missed that point. plus, normal people turn off the ringer when they're sleeping, otherwise you get what's coming to you.

  78. what about innocent until proven guilty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know it's not exactly the same as a stockade, but announcing to everyone in the largest city in the United States is public shaming. I thought we were innocent until proven guilty. or is that only when children or "terrorist" are not involved?

    so what is stopping someone with power from putting an amber alert out on you, and encouraging an entire city to dish out their version of justice?

    and how would everyone react to the news? "Person with an active amber alert is assaulted and murdered inside their car with published license plate" my guess is most people would assume you're a child molester and celebrate your death. how many people have already been targeted this way?

    I'd rather die free than live oppressed.

  79. An Alternative to Wireless Emergency Alerts by veilleux.jim · · Score: 1

    These alerts come from a system controlled by FEMA and less than 200 local governments are currently using that system. So here's a way to get better, more relevant safety alerts and still get a good night's sleep: sign up for your local emergency alert service. Thousands of counties and cities across the US have them. And you can sign up for yours at http://www.usnear.org./ Choose "text messages" and they will come in like normal texts (not a 3 alarm fire alert!). Which means they won't override your DND settings.

  80. The system is broken now by k2r · · Score: 1

    by using it once like this.