Ubuntu Edge Smartphone Funding Trends Low

Shuttleworth by mknewman · 2013-07-30 01:27 · Score: 4, Informative

Shuttle worth has already said that he will not buy up unsold units, as that defeats the idea of crowd sourcing. Some of his ideas will make it into mainstream phones in a few years. BTW I bought 2.

Re:Shuttleworth by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 01:49 · Score: 1, Informative

If they build them I will buy one.
I will even put down a $50 deposit.
I did not however buy one because I do not believe they will hit their goals. Instead buyers will get an underwhelming device at super phone prices.
Re:Shuttleworth by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:05 · Score: 4, Informative

they wont ever be for sale. these are all limited edition. assuming they meet the 32M goal... it WILL be a superphone... if they dont meet the 32M goal, there will be no phones at all, and everyone gets their money back.
Re:Shuttleworth by ACluk90 · 2013-07-30 02:06 · Score: 1

You cannot buy one, the only way to get such a phone is to take part in the crowd funding. Or get one later, when someone sells his on eBay.
Re:Shuttleworth by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:10 · Score: 2

The phone will never exist, if they get their $32M I am almost certain the phones they ship will look nothing like their current plans. It will be budget device at a super phone price. This is due to their very low volume.
Re:Shuttleworth by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

that would be a really stupid business move on canonical's part. it wont be a budget phone, because they have no reason for it to be one. we arent buying phones here, we are funding the production of a limited edition superphone, which will be the basis for years to come. we are all tired of budget phones... instead of being a pessimist, you should fund the project and hope that it changes the market and we will be able to buy decently powerful phones at some point in the next decade.
Re:Shuttleworth by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

you are such a pessimist, lol... they cant do that, everyone in the linux world would hate them for it. if they realize later during production that they cant do it with just the 32M, canonical will front the rest to realize its goals.
Re:Shuttleworth by cheesybagel · 2013-07-30 02:20 · Score: 1

Oh I suspect they would ship alright. It would just take so long for them to ship the phones that by that time the specs would be run of the mill.
Re:Shuttleworth by Burz · 2013-07-30 02:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

It behooves us to also consider whether Shuttleworth's track record and vision are impacting the level of enthusiasm. The Ubuntu desktop isn't exactly a breathtaking achievement in the eyes of most computer users. I use it daily, and I like some of the changes they are making in BAU for Linux desktops. But Unity is a dog's breakfast just laying there waiting to slip-up users as soon as they step foot over the threshold.
The other major fault from the standpoint of the consumer is they are still a "distro" and as such have what I call distro-itis. They are expected to sit in front of Ubuntu/Mint/Fedora/etc and think, "Hey I'm using Linux!" Then comes the inevitable schooling on different package formats, staying away from apps not coded for your "flavor"s UI toolkit and DE, and the lovely excuses about regression defects causing visual, audio and even keyboard failures are fault of "upstream, not us". I'm dealing with one such keyboard failure in the Ubuntu 13.04 lock screen now, on a Linux certified Thinkpad no less. (Keyboard failures I've had with Windows and Mac over the decades are absolutely zero.)
If I were to give advice to anyone wanting to create a consumer-level OS using FOSS, I would tell them to regard the existing software base as a "gift" of sorts, but by all means take full responsibility for the vision and finished product. And also banish "Linux" from any marketing description of the OS: When I buy a car, I do not want to see the brand of transmission or fuel injectors mixed-in with the branding of my prospective vehicles... save that for the spec sheets.
Re:Shuttleworth by waspbr · 2013-07-30 02:23 · Score: 2

This is just baseless FUD. If it was an unknown company then yeah you might have a point. But Canonical is not unknown, nor is it going anywhere. In the AMA Shuttleworth promised to deliver a top of the line hardware, even if that would mean he would have to take care of extra costs himself. This phone is not going to be mass produced, which does mean that costs may be a bit higher but also there is more wiggle room for novel and expensive components. The phone is still cheaper than an iphone5,
Re:Shuttleworth by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:32 · Score: 2

if shutteleworth says they will ship in may, they will ship in may. canonical is not an unknown company.... they have a lot of money, a lot of manpower, and a lot of innovation.
Re:Shuttleworth by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:38 · Score: 1

It is not FUD, it is my own fear. Shuttleworth has done a lot for the community, but I can't expect him to put himself in the poorhouse. You think he will really order 10x as many SOCs as he needs for the phone just to get top of the line parts?
Re:Shuttleworth by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:39 · Score: 1

They have comparatively little money, no manpower on hardware and not much innovation in that space.
Heck, none of those matter as much as having a relationship with someone who can build this stuff. Who is even going to build them? What is the part number for the SOC? Where are they buying these sapphire screens?
Re:Shuttleworth by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:45 · Score: 2

So instead of being a realist and knowing that without volume you can't get good SOCs, I should take a risk based on your dreams?
I suspect you are under 25. Age tends to kill of those kinds of flights of fancy.
At best case it will be like the Ouya, the SOC will be mediocre by the time it ships. They got their tegra 3 now that everyone else is shipping tegra 4 parts.
Re:Shuttleworth by mknewman · 2013-07-30 02:47 · Score: 1

Interesting, they have sold 78 T-Shirts for $50 a pop in just a few hours. It'd be funny to get our phones funded by swag. If you look at the bottom graph http://ubuntu-edge.info/ you will see that although they have slipped under the trend line it's not that far off, and some people may be waiting till late in the project to plop down the $830 or less. That may be a wise move as I have tied up my money for a month, I have no doubt I can get it back but I'd rather have the phones.
Re:Shuttleworth by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:48 · Score: 1

sapphire screens are cool... and new. the only reason that the current models of phones DONT have sapphire is that it costs 10x more than gorilla glass and the manufacturers dont think theres any reason to pay that.
Re:Shuttleworth by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:59 · Score: 1

You sound like a nice guy, how about we simply put a 6 pack on it? Rather than pointlessly speculate.
I will take Paulaner hefe, for the children size bottles they sell in the USA it goes about $10 a sixer.
What beer would you like?
The terms are if it ships on time and with the named specs you win, else I get my beer.
Re:Shuttleworth by Xicor · 2013-07-30 03:03 · Score: 1

lol, the idea behind the ouya was stupid at best... id say it would be more like the occulus rift, which is cool as fuck.
Re:Shuttleworth by Clsid · 2013-07-30 03:31 · Score: 2

Ubuntu is quite a big achievement in my opinion. Again, in my opinion it was the first truly easy to use distro and made it possible for a whole lot of people to use Linux that would not have touched it otherwise. That being said, I would install Ubuntu for other people since it is easier to manage when you have to be the support guy but in my case I still prefer Gentoo even if it makes me spend an ungodly amount of time just trying to make my freaking wireless card work.
Re:Shuttleworth by AvitarX · 2013-07-30 03:31 · Score: 1

Am I the only one that doesn't think that phones need to CPU/GPU race anymore? I'm not at all concerned about the SOC.
The features it has that are fairly unique are the ones I want (sapphire screen, I am smart enough to not drop my phone, but too stupid to keep it separate from my keys...). The fact that it is being deisnged with one handed use is a big perk, the vast majority of high-end phones are not. Lots of storage without the need for an SD card (this is one of those no brainers that typical phones skip to mark up ridicules amounts in a higher end model). Focus on an actually good camera rather than megapixel spec.
As long as the screen is true pixels, I would buy this phone when my current one dies (but not how).
I currently have an HTC 1 S, which was a better mid-range, or lower high-end phone when it came out last year, I have 3 complaints I suspect this would fix.
1) the lack of blue elements in the pixels gives strait lines a fuzzy edge
2) the battery life could be better (I assume new screens would fix that, as 50%+ of my battery use is screen)
3) the front camera sucks
4) storage is one too, so I guess that's 4
The main things it got right (that high-end phones were lacking)
1) really good main camera
2) the right size to actually use
The Ubuntu Edge, much like I believe the HTC 1 S, or the iPhone (though not the one, or one x) is designed for usability, not specs. It's the Android phone I want to buy next.

--
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Re:Shuttleworth by drinkypoo · 2013-07-30 03:34 · Score: 1

Ubuntu is quite a big achievement in my opinion. Again, in my opinion it was the first truly easy to use distro and made it possible for a whole lot of people to use Linux that would not have touched it otherwise.
I'd assert that Knoppix, the original Debian LiveCD, wins that particular accolade. You could slip the disc in and start doing stuff right away and it was similar to Windows in where things were located.
Slackware, of course, was the first Linux easy for a nerd to install and use... But that's not the same thing.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Shuttleworth by Xicor · 2013-07-30 03:34 · Score: 1

im a guy. i just have yet to find any edible beer. is too bitter for my taste, so as of now, i drink hard liquor and cider .
Re:Shuttleworth by serviscope_minor · 2013-07-30 03:35 · Score: 1

Then comes the inevitable schooling on different package formats,
Almost all software goes through the package manager which means that you never see package files or formats. You just see a nice list of software and pick what you want.
staying away from apps not coded for your "flavor"s UI toolkit and DE,
Why would you do that? This is one of the things where X11 works very well: they all work together because they communicate using the same underlying protocols.
I have a FVWM desktop, and I use a mixture of GTK, QT, Xaw (<3 xfig and xterm), FLTK (because it's so easy to code for), possible a M*tif program a GLUT program and the odd hand hacked xlib client.
They all work together just fine. If you stay away from programs coded for different toolkits for technical reasons then you're wrong. If you do it for aesthetic reasons, then you must not use Windows 8 (which style do you want today?), OSX (for when loopy developers insist on hand-hacking things to look different for no good reason) or any web apps (where nothing is even remotely consistent) for that matter.
Keyboard failures
I've never even heard of that outside hardware faults (an old laptop of mine likes shitting escape characters all over the place, so I remapped escape to nothing and Alt-GR to escape), or *cough* accidently deleting /var/lib/modules before the USB modules are loaded *cough* and not having a PS2 keyboard or boot CD to fix it*cough*, the but there's a first time for everything.

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SJW n. One who posts facts.
Re:Shuttleworth by rtfa-troll · 2013-07-30 04:23 · Score: 1

Who is even going to build them?
Most of the Major phone "manufacturer's" have no manufacturing capability anyway. They just buy from "noname" contract manufacturing plants (like Foxconn to name one). There are exceptions; companies like Samsung which are large enough, and companies like Apple which can afford to get involved in financing of production; but the rest mostly gave up their factories in the last few years and the change seems to have been one of the reasons for all problems that showed up in the Nokia Lumia phones after they closed their factories in Finland.
This means that a bunch of companies will just put together the device you order. This has been done by, for example, many of the phone companies to get custom devices for their networks (which is where HTC actually came from before they started to be a known brand).
There is no reason to think that, especially if they are willing to put some finance up themselves, Canonical wouldn't be able to do this too.

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=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
Re:Shuttleworth by gl4ss · 2013-07-30 04:39 · Score: 1

sapphire screens are cool... and new. the only reason that the current models of phones DONT have sapphire is that it costs 10x more than gorilla glass and the manufacturers dont think theres any reason to pay that.
they just window shopped for specs like octacore, sapphire glass and so forth.. that is the real problem with the timeframe, to really get top line socs(that are topline next may) for phones to ship in next may they would have needed to put money down already...
this isn't the first such phone announcement anyways and it tends to go the same ways no matter which companies are involved.

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Shuttleworth by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 05:06 · Score: 1

The beer I mentioned has no bitterness. The IBUs are below what most humans can even detect.
There are quite likely a dozen beer styles that meet this requirement.
Not that I don't also like bitter beer, the Sam Adams IPL is really neat since it tastes like grapefruit.
Re:Shuttleworth by AdamWill · 2013-07-30 06:00 · Score: 1

"But Canonical is not unknown, nor is it going anywhere." ...but neither does it have any experience at all of hardware production. Trying to jump straight to building a top-end superphone based on crowdfunding is a big leap.
Have you taken a close look at what they actually have right now? Some shiny renders, very rough 3D printed prototypes of the case, a spec sheet, and some extremely unfinished software. That's it. Are you really confident they'll deliver a top-end phone in less than a year?
Re:Shuttleworth by fermat1313 · 2013-07-30 06:53 · Score: 1

they wont ever be for sale. these are all limited edition..
And that is the number one reason not to bite. Why would I spend that much money on a phone that 1. Will have limited users, so very limited support for applications that take advantage of the platform. 2. No large userbase to call upon when I have issues. 3. A company with no real incentive to develop an outstanding platform, since by the time they get $32m, they will already have as many captive customers as they want.
So what's the point of a limited edition phone? To be part of an exclusive club? That's exactly what I don't want in a phone. I think that the limited edition concept is simply there to take pressure off them once (if) they secure funding.
Re:Shuttleworth by mknewman · 2013-07-30 07:59 · Score: 1

The phone will dual boot Ubuntu or Android, so there will be a wealth of applications. After launch there will be an enhancement to run Android UNDER Ubuntu which would be even better. At launch there will be a way to run Ubuntu under Android. So you will have lots of opportunity to run just about any application.
Re:Shuttleworth by mknewman · 2013-07-30 08:01 · Score: 1

If they don't meet the published minimum specs and they do meet the funding goal there will be legal action. Dual boot Ubuntu mobile OS and Android Fully integrated Ubuntu desktop PC when docked Fastest multi-core CPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage Micro-SIM 4.5in 1,280 x 720 HD sapphire crystal display 8mp low-light rear camera, 2mp front camera Dual-LTE, dual-band 802.11n Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 4, NFC GPS, accelerometer, gyro, proximity sensor, compass, barometer Stereo speakers with HD audio, dual-mic recording, Active Noise Cancellation 11-pin connector providing simultaneous MHL and USB OTG 3.5mm jack Silicon-anode Li-Ion battery 64 x 9 x 124mm Specifications are subject to change. Yes, I do see the last line. My guess is we are going to get a far better product than what the specs show now.
Re:Shuttleworth by mknewman · 2013-07-30 08:04 · Score: 1

Outside assembly worked for Pebble. They are doing great, even with Apple breathing down their neck.
Re:Shuttleworth by mknewman · 2013-07-30 08:06 · Score: 1

I don't know about the bootloader but since it's being sold worldwide with dual antenna for LTE US/World it's very likely it's carrier unlocked.
Re:Shuttleworth by Predius · 2013-07-30 08:34 · Score: 1

Sapphire screens aren't new.
http://gizmodo.com/337529/asus-ls201-resists-crossbow-arrow-impact
Re:Shuttleworth by Panaflex · 2013-07-30 09:49 · Score: 2

Will the Ubuntu Edge be sustainable and/or hardware hackable?
While we will do our best to keep the hardware as open as possible, these are not the main focus of the project in its first generation. Hardware that’s capable of convergence is the priority.
What networks are supported?
The Ubuntu Edge is an unlocked device that works in all countries with GSM/3G/LTE network services. For GSM, which covers a lot of countries but not all operators, the Edge will support the 850, 900, 1800, 1900 and 2100 MHz frequencies. You can check support in your country here.
The Edge will support LTE standard frequencies and multi-band support for roaming. Yes, you can use the Edge on Verizon and Sprint.
So no locked bootloader, but you will likely have to live with binary blobs also (like 99% of phones out there).

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I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
Re:Shuttleworth by Xicor · 2013-07-30 09:51 · Score: 1

lol by bitter i mean "not sweet" i only like sweet drinks
Re:Shuttleworth by Xicor · 2013-07-30 09:53 · Score: 1

dont forget that ubuntu os will be available for all phones by then... so there will be a much larger userbase than he thinks.
Re:Shuttleworth by Burz · 2013-07-31 02:34 · Score: 1

When I think back at some of the distros that came before Ubuntu, I feel I cannot agree with you there.
Mandrake/Mandriva
Xandros
SuSE
Linspire
What made Ubuntu different was that it raised a fully free (gratis) distro to the hardware-detection prowess that some of the above distros had, and they were one of the first easy distros to have a Live CD. Plus it didn't hurt to have naked people in its marketing publications.
Linux desktops never gained the market share to really support your claim about "a whole lot of people" using it, however.
Re:Shuttleworth by Burz · 2013-07-31 03:02 · Score: 1

The keyboard failure actually involves a PS/2 keyboard on a USB adapter, connected to a USB hub. I am also using a Colemak (built-in) layout. Waking the system from sleep, just over 50% of the time it seems to allow me to type my password to unlock... however it doesn't respond to Enter and when I use the mouse instead it says the password is incorrect. I have to click on Switch User and enter my password on that screen to get back to my desktop.
Past versions of Ubuntu didn't have this problem (although they were on older systems); QubesOS doesn't have this problem; Windows didn't have this problem. OS X with the same hub and keyboard never had a similar problem.
I can get around the problem. The really rotten thing is that its emblematic of the kind of failures people have on Linux distros with basic user interface hardware... There's always going to be audio, graphics or input that fails on some level.
Re:Shuttleworth by h4rr4r · 2013-07-31 03:20 · Score: 1

Yeah, I am going with my guess that you are sub 25.
Re:Shuttleworth by crypto2600 · 2013-08-04 18:40 · Score: 1

Sadly. this closed purchase option with no retail option in the future is more characteristic of Apple than Ubuntu's philosophy. The phone looks great, specs sound amazing.. This exclusivity deal is all about "snobby" tactics. I am a game developer. I can't currently afford to put down money for this phone but i will be able to in a couple months. Without the app eco-system, this will be another failed phone project like WebOS and Meego

--
Push to test, release to detonate...
Re:Shuttleworth by intermodal · 2013-08-06 03:57 · Score: 1

As a longtime Gentoo guy, I largely agree with you. I'm posting this from my Funtoo desktop, which is actually also SSHed into a Funtoo local services box. Both using fairly standard bits of hardware. I'm streaming Pandora on a convertible Thinkpad laptop/tablet running Ubuntu because I just didn't feel like messing with the hardware configuration of it.

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In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!

Cheaper Options.... by ZiakII · 2013-07-30 01:30 · Score: 1, Interesting

They really should of introduced some cheaper options. Like support the Ubuntu Edge for $60 and get a Ubuntu T-Shirt. Possibly include some other options that are not a staggering $700+ for most people.

Re:Cheaper Options.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-30 01:35 · Score: 1

A t-shirt perk was already added an hour ago.. also, tell me what a 64Gb iPhone costs today?
Re:Cheaper Options.... by aliquis · 2013-07-30 01:40 · Score: 1

Or they could just not had done those damn early bird offers.
I totally hate them even if I sign up early just to hold a spot. So useless. It's crowdfoundting for fucks sake. Everyone is in it to help realise a product, why do some get a better deal than others?
Sure I do understand it help make the project seem popular early but really so what? I'm a consumer not the person running the project.
Some with silly low goals or an extra high level with "free" stretch goals ..
Also on indiegogo it's much worse because the old categories seem to be removed (maybe they do it themself manually) once people have used up them so the fact that some people got the phone for 600, 625 and so on are hidden away from the people who visit it now. "Oh, there's still a cheaper option around!" ... or rather: "Yeah, you missed out a lot of cheaper ones."
I totally don't want it to succeed. Drop price to $600 for everyone and watch it do succeed.
Also full-hd would be nice if nothing else because other premium phones will be using it.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-30 01:45 · Score: 1

Right now, a 64GB iPhone is roughly 275 Euro MORE expensive than the top tier price on the Ubuntu Edge.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by homey+of+my+owney · 2013-07-30 01:51 · Score: 1, Insightful

And even if it weren't... The enormous amount of money Google/Apple/Samsung/Nokia/Microsoft/every other company spends on marketing, immediately puts this at such a disadvantage that money invested is money lost.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Splab · 2013-07-30 01:52 · Score: 1

The problem I have with it isn't as much the different prices, but to have $800 tied up in something that may or may not success, thats a heap of money.
And should my current phone die on me before the Edge is delivered, I'm either without a phone or going to have a redundant phone when the Edge is finally here (Can't live without a smartphone these days).
If the edge does complete, it could very well be my next phone, but just not going to tie up that amount of money on a whim...
Re:Cheaper Options.... by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 01:53 · Score: 2

$800 would be fine, if I believed for a second the final device would be what they claim. I suspect they are aiming to high and at such low volume will not be able to get the parts they want.
They should have made a small run of them to prove it could be done. If they had I would have already bought one.
Or let us make a deposit and pay the rest if the described device actually ships.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by JanneM · 2013-07-30 01:55 · Score: 1

"Like support the Ubuntu Edge for $60 and get a Ubuntu T-Shirt."
They do now. $50 gives you an Edge T-shirt as well as recognition as founder.

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Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 01:57 · Score: 1

Why?
It can run android apps, and you can flash any OS you want onto it. How is the money lost? Because your friends might not know how cool it is?
If I thought they would actually meet their design goals I would have already bought one.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by MightyYar · 2013-07-30 01:58 · Score: 1

I don't buy those new, either. I'm not poor, but $600 is an expensive toy.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by ssam · 2013-07-30 02:03 · Score: 2

A small run would probably cost a huge amount more. These aren't components that you can buy individually. You need to be about place orders for thousands at a time.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:04 · Score: 1

Which is why they won't be able to do it.
I mean a single one, lets see a single real phone. If anyone thought they could pull this off one of the OEMs would build them a prototype.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:07 · Score: 1

theres no reason not to buy one... if it doesnt meet the goal, everyone gets their money back.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:10 · Score: 1

the phone is valued at more than 800 dollars. they have all the ranges of prices so that ppl think "oh, i need to get one earlier rather than later" instead of "meh, ill get one at the end of the campaign". if they reduce the price to 600$... the phone would have to be a shit phone, because the parts in it alone are worth more than that. also, theres no reason to have full hd... anything above 720p is just wasted overhead.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by CanHasDIY · 2013-07-30 02:13 · Score: 2

theres no reason not to buy one...
There are a shit-ton of reasons to not buy, er, "pre-order" one.
My reason: I've got better things to spend $700+ on than a non-existent device I have no use for.

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:19 · Score: 1

lemme ask you this. if you dont help fund the edge, are you ACTUALLY going to spend the 700$ on something else? or is just going to sit in your bank?
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:22 · Score: 1

this. the problem is that all the major phone manufacturers have created this mindset of "higher resolution is better" and put themselves in a resolution race that only serves to drain the battery and burn out the processor faster.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by waspbr · 2013-07-30 02:25 · Score: 1

Apparently you don't grasp the concept of crowdfunding.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Rakishi · 2013-07-30 02:32 · Score: 2

More to the point, making phones is hard and making good phones is even harder. Look at the issues apple has had with their new phones and Apple is, from what I've heard, some of the if not the best in the game in terms of hardware talent.
I'd bet money they run into issues, start cutting corners and finally launch a buggy device that misses a number of features. Pretty standard really for a v1 if you think about it but not something I'd want to drop $800 for ahead of time especially without knowing what bugs and missing features there will be (ie: do I care about the particular short falls or not).
Re:Cheaper Options.... by jedidiah · 2013-07-30 02:34 · Score: 2

> Why?
The same reason Linux is unknown outside places like Slashdot.
Marketing does matter. It doesn't matter how good your product is if it doesn't have some good sleazy salesmen out there hocking it. You will be eclipsed by the companies with money enough to buy ads or prime shelf space in retail.
The world is not some idealized meritocracy.

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A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:35 · Score: 1

also dont forget that the ubuntu os for the phones is super cool and easy to use. the os is already available for testing on certain phones if you want to test it out.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:36 · Score: 1

they have some prototypes... that being said, they are going to wait as long as possible to make sure it has the best specs available at launch.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by CanHasDIY · 2013-07-30 02:37 · Score: 1

Caveat: My current phone is still my first smartphone - a Droid X I paid full retail for when it first came out, something I swore I would never do again (at least, not until the price of phones with decent hardware becomes reasonable).

lemme ask you this. if you dont help fund the edge, are you ACTUALLY going to spend the 700$ on something else? or is just going to sit in your bank?
Maybe; it's about time for a new desktop, and I wouldn't mind getting a few accessories for my new truck (7 Bones could get me a nice header-back Flowmaster system, new bumper/winch combo, some slick rims and jacked tires...). New gutters would be nice, too. Maybe a nice stone patio...
Lemme axe you (a couple) something(s): Why do you ask, and what would you have responded if I said I planned on banking the cash?

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Re:Cheaper Options.... by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:43 · Score: 1

Why does that matter?
If no one else uses this phone it hurts the owner not at all, since he can run android apps.
Linux is everywhere, every android phone, every server room, nearly every consumer router, many TVs.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:50 · Score: 1

By which point they will be mediocre specs.
A sapphire screen and 128GB storage is only good because it is better than the average.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:55 · Score: 1

people in this world do a lot of waiting. we keep our money where we can see it. just because i saved 700$ by not buying something i want doesnt mean im now going to spend that 700$ on something else. if i dont buy something, that money would just sit in my bank collecting dust. if you had said you were just going to bank the cash, i would have said that banking the cash has no point... you dont get anything from it. if you put in the 700$ fr this phone, you will a) have a cool new phone that you didnt have before, and b) likely be able to resell it on ebay for 800-1000$ after the fact, since it is a limited edition phone. you would be able to sell it to everyone else who said "im not gonna buy one because it doesnt come out until may" or " im not going to buy one because it costs 700$ and i dont know what the specs are going to be like" for 200$ profit. then you will be laughing your ass off because you were smart enough to invest in a piece of amazing technology that hardly anyone actually has the guts to invest in.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:56 · Score: 1

if you bought the phone for 700$, you would be able to resell it for 200-300$ profit on ebay. this is a 30% gain... i doubt your bank has that kind of interest.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:57 · Score: 1

also, the price of phones will NEVER become decent until they are oldschool like nokia phones. since there is no innovation in the market, the manufacturers can set the price at whatever they want, and they will continue to do so because thats what makes them $$$..
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Clsid · 2013-07-30 03:40 · Score: 1

While I agree that the resolution race is kind of crazy past a certain point, I'm actually very glad that is finally happening. We have had to deal with crappy resolutions for a long time until Apple came up with the "Retina" displays and finally the industry moved forward. This is the main problem I see in the Android ecosystem, there are no companies just taking a stand and saying, this should be done because it looks cool and it is the way forward (ok, maybe HTC). Windows has Nokia doing all kinds of cool stuff (Clearblack, amazing camera quality, good industrial design, etc). Samsung is about doing a lot of models and see what sticks in the wall, Sony is acting like they are doing a Playstation all over again, hell Xiaomi might be the one doing something interesting after all.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by AdamWill · 2013-07-30 06:03 · Score: 1

They don't have prototype phones. They have 3D printed prototype *cases*. If you look carefully at any of the software demo videos, the phone being used is a Nexus.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by Panaflex · 2013-07-30 10:00 · Score: 1

Not really... people all over the world buy cellphones and import them for a massive price hike all the time.
I really doubt that Canonical would advance a vaporware phone. They've got a huge interest in going mobile with Ubuntu Touch, and the hardware designs already exist. There's nothing new here other than a particular mix of existing tech and a contract manufacturer.
Going for a prestigious custom design to show off their software looks much better than the 50$ chinese knockoff that the carriers will likely fund.

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I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
Re:Cheaper Options.... by CanHasDIY · 2013-07-31 01:48 · Score: 1

So now you're relegating yourself to 2 year old phones or low end phones?
Guess so. Darn, the world will come to a hard stop, and it's all my fault :P

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An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese

More about the ideal than the phone by Bradmont · 2013-07-30 01:32 · Score: 4, Interesting

While this looks to be a great phone, the crowdfunding campaign is about a lot more than getting a cool phone; it's about proving an idea: that there is a market for special-run, innovative devices. If they succeed, they could seriously change the way phones are produced, and we could see an influx of really cool hardware projects in the future. This is important for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the opin hardware movement. While using open hardware is not a goal of this project, if they manage to succeed, we could see something similar for fully open smartphones not too far down the road. Shuttleworth said in his Reddit AMA that this might be an idea for the next iteration (though I wouldn't put too much stock in that). However, if the concept is proven, others could follow suit pretty quick. So, it's not so much $800 for a cool phone, but an $800 investment in the future of computing.

Re:More about the ideal than the phone by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-30 03:29 · Score: 1

Agreed. This was my precise thought when I looked into the proposal shortly after launch. However, almost no information was given about the intended openness of the hardware/software, there was no way to contribute Bitcoin, and I certainly had reservations about ubuntu since the Amazon fiasco. All in all, it was clear to me that I was not the target audience. That same day I placed an order with DragonBox and made a donation to Replicant.
I was amused to receive an e-mail from the FSF a day or so later detailing precisely the same concerns and promoting their Replicant fundraiser.
I certainly feel there are much better ways of supporting the usual ideals than pre-ordering an ubuntu phone.
Re:More about the ideal than the phone by Xicor · 2013-07-30 03:40 · Score: 1

lol you misunderstand. it is only 720p on the phone. if you plug it into a monitor, it will give you the full hd 1080p. theres just no reason for a phone to have 1080p, it is just wasted processing. obviously it would need to have 1080 if it were plugged into a monitor.
Re:More about the ideal than the phone by Xicor · 2013-07-30 03:42 · Score: 1

it was in the mark shuttleworth AMA.
Re:More about the ideal than the phone by AdamWill · 2013-07-30 06:09 · Score: 1

If you want to make a statement why not just go buy a Geeksphone?
Costs a lot less, and you can get it right now.

Looks nice; way too expensive by sanosuke001 · 2013-07-30 01:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

The design is interesting and I'd love a dual-boot android/ubuntu device but I can't spend $600, let alone $830 on a phone.

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-SaNo

Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by ChristW · 2013-07-30 01:45 · Score: 1

A contract with your carrier with a 'free phone' attached costs about $50 a month, so (those are usually 2 years...) cost $1200 in two years. If you get a SIM-only contract (is that possible in the US?), those are $5 to $10 a month, so you save $800+ in 2 years. Hey, that's enough to buy an Edge, right there!

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Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by gl4ss · 2013-07-30 01:54 · Score: 1

A contract with your carrier with a 'free phone' attached costs about $50 a month, so (those are usually 2 years...) cost $1200 in two years. If you get a SIM-only contract (is that possible in the US?), those are $5 to $10 a month, so you save $800+ in 2 years. Hey, that's enough to buy an Edge, right there!
or you could buy just any high end smartphone you want.
like, um, this year.

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 01:54 · Score: 1

Then you can't afford a smartphone.
You are paying that one way or another.
I would be more than happy to spend $800 if they would show us real production units.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 01:56 · Score: 1

T-mobile and MVNOs in the USA do offer SIM only plans.
They are more like $30-$50, but on contract plans for a smartphone are going to be double that. You $50 a month is comparatively cheap vs the average american smartphone plan.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Gavagai80 · 2013-07-30 02:02 · Score: 1

My unlocked no contract android phone was $100, not $800. Most people neither need nor can afford $800 phones or $50/month contracts.

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Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by dugancent · 2013-07-30 02:04 · Score: 1

A 16gb Nexus is $349, off-contract, on the play store. I would never spend $500+ on a phone.

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SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by sanosuke001 · 2013-07-30 02:04 · Score: 1

Yeah, "the pictures" which is why I said "design." Why are you being a troll? I didn't say, "The completed phone is amazing; too bad they only built one of them."

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-SaNo
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by sanosuke001 · 2013-07-30 02:06 · Score: 1

Except that I have a phone to use instead of giving them $800 and waiting two years to get it. Also, affording something over two years ie cell plan is easier to budget for than a large $800 chunk.

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-SaNo
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by MightyYar · 2013-07-30 02:06 · Score: 1

I spend $30/month on T-Mobile Prepay in the US, which gives me 5GB of data, unlimited texting, and 100 minutes. Additional minutes are $0.10. I use about $10/month in extra minutes. So that's $40-45/month unsubsidized, rock-bottom in the US for a smartphone on a fast-ish network. My wife has a no-data (well, a few MB), 1200 minutes or texts plan for the same $30 and she never goes over.
I think the cheapest post-paid plans in the US run around $80/month.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:23 · Score: 1

im guessing that youve never bought a phone outside of a carrier contract. you know those phones you get for 150$ when you upgrade every other year? yea... those are 500 or 600$ phones... the phone company is just subsidising it and making their money back by increasing the price of your contract to balance it.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:31 · Score: 1

an iphone without contract costs you around 600$ in the US, and about 900 in eu. when the galaxy s2 came out, it was 550$ in the US.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:39 · Score: 1

dont compare a budget phone with a top of the line piece of hardware. obviously you can go to a store and buy yourself a piece of junk desktop for 200-400$... but any real desktop will cost you 1500-2k in parts.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:41 · Score: 1

If you have to budget that, then you probably should just get rid of the smartphone plan.
I would not have one if work did not pay for it. $100/month for internet on the go is insane if not for work.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by dugancent · 2013-07-30 02:55 · Score: 1

1500-2000 for a desktop? You sir, are getting ripped off.

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SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Xicor · 2013-07-30 03:10 · Score: 1

no man... thats how much a top of the line desktop will cost you if you build it yourself. your gpu will be 400-600$, your psu 100-200$, your CPU will be another 400$, your mobo will be another 200$, a SSD will cost you 200$ for a decently sized one.. if you want a ssd just for your os, it would be around 75$, then you need HDD which would cost you around 100$ for 2TB. a good case that will fit all this will cost you another 100$. a liquid cooling unit will cost you another 100$... is this getting close to 1600? im too lazy to add, lol.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by dugancent · 2013-07-30 03:14 · Score: 1

That's not a "real desktop", that is a top of the line gaming desktop. I've never seen a water-cooled computer in the wild and I've never spent north of $400 on a GPU.
That said, I don't even use desktops anymore.

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SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Xicor · 2013-07-30 03:21 · Score: 1

lol when i say a real desktop, i mean one powerful enough to play games... not one powerful enough to read emails.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Edzilla2000 · 2013-07-30 03:52 · Score: 1

The Nexus 4 is sold at near loss by google.
When sold by LG, its manufacturer, in Europe, it goes for exactly the same price as all the other smartphones, which is more expensive than the $600 I paid to support the Edge...
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by dugancent · 2013-07-30 04:03 · Score: 1

That's nice, it still cost me $349. How Google gets to the price point doesn't affect me. Why doesn't Shuttleworth pony up his own cash to get it to the market, he certainly has it.

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SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by hobarrera · 2013-07-30 04:20 · Score: 1

Most modern smartphoen cost about that, unless you sign some two year contract, where you end up paying it gradually over two years.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by js_sebastian · 2013-07-30 06:06 · Score: 1

A 16gb Nexus is $349, off-contract, on the play store. I would never spend $500+ on a phone.
Nexus is one of the best value-for-money options on the market, but I would never buy a phone with just 16GB of storage and no micro-SD slot...
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Gavagai80 · 2013-07-30 06:51 · Score: 1

If my cheap phone and $250 desktop PC do everything I want them to do perfectly (which they do), they're not junk. They're the right tool for the job.

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Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Gavagai80 · 2013-07-30 06:57 · Score: 1

We're talking about an Ubuntu phone here, so let's compared with an Ubuntu desktop. Nobody buys one to play your top of the line fancy expensive games. My $250 kubuntu PC has no problem playing all the supertux and neverputt I want, and any other casual game that non-gamers will play. If you think an ubuntu phone is going to be a prime gaming machine...

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Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by cbhacking · 2013-07-30 08:40 · Score: 1

If you spend over $300 on either the CPU or the GPU, you're wasting money for gaming. There's just no point, when I can already run WQHD at max specs and still hit 60FPS.
Yes, my desktop will be obsolete before yours, but that doesn't matter; yours won't last enough longer than mine (it's a toss up whether a system like that will suffer part failure before going obsolete, too) to make up the cost. I'll just upgrade the components. A $300 GPU that runs all the games today just fine will be paired with a (by then) $200GPU when games catch up to it a few years down the line, or possibly replaced with a new $300 one to save on power usage.
I'm unclear if you're an idiot, an elitist, or a troll (not that those are mutually exclusive) but if what you say is true then you're throwing money away. Lots of it.

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There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by cbhacking · 2013-07-30 08:52 · Score: 1

The TMo plan you describe is actually post-pay, it's just contract-free and month-to-month. Pre-pay means you pay up front for a certain amount (of talk/text/data, each of which usually spends your pre-paid amount at some rate, such as $0.10/SMS), and if you run out you have to either top up or go without.
Prepaid is the cheapest option if you really don't use your phone much, and are way below the thresholds of even the cheapest monthly plans on most months. For the rest of us, no-contract monthly plans (which TMo specializes in) are the way to go.
By the way, TMo now also offers a $50/month contract-free plan that gives unlimited talk, unlimited text, 500MB of unthrottled data and/or tethering, and unlimited untethered (but *possibly* throttled) data past then. Extra unthrottled or tethering data can be added at $10/2GB/month.
Those are all post-paid plans though; you get a bill in the mail on your billing date, and then your limits reset.

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There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by jon3k · 2013-07-30 09:13 · Score: 1

You can get closed loop water cooler setups that you just screw in now for like $100. It's really not considered exotic in custom PCs at all anymore. Source: I just built a new PC (air cooled, by the way).
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by MightyYar · 2013-07-30 09:20 · Score: 1

No, it's pre-pay. I had to transfer from my old T-Mobile post-pay account. It's got a different support staff and a separate web page. I have to pay at the beginning of the cycle, and if I run out of money in my account, the phone stops making calls until I top up. The situation has changed considerably - pre-pay is cheaper than post-pay now, even for unlimited plans.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Looks nice; way too expensive by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-30 09:35 · Score: 1

Find one with 128GB flash memory and 4GB system RAM.
Re: Looks nice; way too expensive by Shazback · 2013-07-31 20:21 · Score: 1

Damage risks also did the project in for me. I've just bought a nexus 4, and despite that the project looks tasty. Incredible specs, dual boot android (if I don't like canonical's os), etc. The works. 600-800 bucks for a phone I'll only see in a year (at best) isn't great, but I can live with that and it can always make a nice present for my s.o. or parents. Like everybody, I've got the odd question, but nothing so significant it would have been "make or break". But the more I thought about it, the more I felt damage would be a p.i.t.a. The OS relies heavily on "edge gestures" and the design is very, very much reliant on the edge of the screen being flush with the casing. Swiping seems to be more common than tapping or prodding in Canonical's OS, and unlike iOS or android, these swipes don't rely on prompts or skeudomorphics, but are accessible by "edge". All this means that the chance of knocking the phone out of your hand in "normal use" is increased, on top of the risks of falling, dropping, etc. that all phones have. Furthermore, whilst sapphire crystals are highly scratch resistant, they're also very brittle. As they're flush with the edges (I'm not sure if the design is supposed to help in this regards, but I don't think it would affect screen shattering), this means there is nowhere but the screen for the energy to disperse. Cases with rubberised edges are a no-no because of edge gestures. The angled slab design also makes finding and producing a viable design is going to be a lot harder. Although given it's a limited run, I don't see who would give it much effort. As far as I can see there is no lanyard holder, so that's also out of the question (short of taking a gamble and drilling into the phone case on the hope that the honeycombed structure won't snap because the holes you made weakened the structure). All this means increased risk of broken screens. I've yet to shatter a screen on my phones, but then again I've always used a lanyard & case combo. Sapphire screens being rare, they'll be expensive and hard to find (if they even can be found). Damaged internals won't have much in the way of repair options due to the small volumes and the most likely over-cramped interior. This seems to me to be a very serious oversight by not just the hardware team, but also the software team. Dropping phones and cracking screens are things that happen quite often overall. It's why phone cases are a multi-million business, and why most people (experiences may vary) have cases. It's any phone repair businesses are a multi-million business and spare parts are a significant part of manufacturers' revenue streams. Making people swipe from the edge increases this risk significantly, and not finding a design that mitigated that risk isn't indicative in my opinion of a great first step towards a revolutionary superphone.

leary? by ischorr · 2013-07-30 01:34 · Score: 1

> but I'm leery of spending quite so much on any phone.

I'm not quite sure I get this. Spending so much on what? On R&D and production? Total on a crowdsource fund? Per donator on a crowdsource project? Is the phone itself projected to be expensive or something?

Re:leary? by aliquis · 2013-07-30 01:45 · Score: 1

People are buying the phone in the crowdsourcing. It's 600 to 830 USD depending on when you bought.
Re:leary? by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 01:59 · Score: 1

Which is a totally normal price for a phone bought outright. Otherwise you pay the same amount or more via your contract. There is no free lunch.
Re:leary? by aliquis · 2013-07-30 02:12 · Score: 1

It's a normal price for a premium phone yes. Or well, at least the $600 is.
But not everyone buy the most premium phones and even though I'm from Sweden now when you mention it maybe the person was from say the US and still think it's much to pay up front. Also if you're going to compare phones in reality you could look it as paying that much + be without a phone for 3/4 of a year. Because that's the reality of it. If you buy another phone now you get a phone now. If you buy this one well you won't get a phone now.
Sure it will have better specs but so will other phones by then. And you could buy them just when you want them.
Re:leary? by DogDude · 2013-07-30 02:16 · Score: 1

You do realize that you're "donating" to a privately, for-profit company, right?

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I don't respond to AC's.
Re:leary? by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:30 · Score: 1

according to the research ive done, no phones will come close to the edge by may. the top of the line phones will have 3gb of ram, and a quad core processor at best. they will also still be using lithium ion batteries, which are nowhere near as good as silicon anode batteries. also, i read somewhere that samsung has decided to use HD glass for their new phones instead of gorilla glass... which just means they will break way more often.

My view by AdmV0rl0n · 2013-07-30 01:38 · Score: 1

Is that what was presented was nice, but contained nothing that was really wow in any way. As such its a premium phone/tablet and there is convincing to be done.

Would I really pay double for this phone - if so.. why? I honestly did not see anything really ahead of the curve despite Mr Shuttleworth trying to intimate that the phone handset market is conservative (it used to be, I am less than sure that HTC ones and Samsung Galaxy 4's are such .. the hand sets seem to be racing along tech wise from where I sit..)

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We`re all equal .. Just some of us are less equal than others.

Re:My view by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:42 · Score: 1

it may seem like they are racing along to the average user, but in actually they are racing along with technology that has been out for years. even if they keep "racing along", they will still be a few years behind the absolute best. the new samsung galaxy phones will still be using lithium ion batteries... which are known for their terrible charge density and horrible battery life. silicon anode technology has been out for a year or so in its current form, and they get 3x the charge density and will last 5000 cycles with only a 10% loss in life. a lithium battery will last maybe a year before you need to replace it.
Re:My view by jon3k · 2013-07-30 09:16 · Score: 1

Double what? It's a high end smartphone, it's on par with most other high end smartphone costs. Are you comparing it to a phone on contract, or cheaper phones, or maybe USED phones?

No SD Card Slot? No thanks by tdp252 · 2013-07-30 01:41 · Score: 5, Insightful

The trend of omitting an SD Card slot so that people are funneled through cloud services is disappointing. I personally won't be buying any device where I am forced into being Cloud-walled.

Edge?!?!?!? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2013-07-30 01:43 · Score: 1

Better have a big cache on the Youtube app is all I have to say.

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SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.

Re:No retailer fee either by aliquis · 2013-07-30 01:54 · Score: 1

We didn't bought it. This is Slashdot.

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by AdmV0rl0n · 2013-07-30 01:59 · Score: 1

Absolutely. Why isn't there someone doing a device with more than one?
The biggest hole in all current 'fashion' devices is storage.

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We`re all equal .. Just some of us are less equal than others.

Re:No retailer fee either by MightyYar · 2013-07-30 01:59 · Score: 1

My Samsung Exhibit 4g was $200.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.

Serious Doubts on Canonical's Ability by Bollie · 2013-07-30 02:01 · Score: 3, Interesting

RANT COMMENCING!

I have serious doubts that Canonical is able to deliver on this: they do not have a history of delivering top-notch software, unless you count their press-releases and boundless enthusiasm as software.

Aside from a few interesting things (upstart being among the few projects adopted outside of Ubuntu), they've basically decided to ignore whatever the rest of the community is doing and implement their own (buggy) stuff which is "better". Canonical's stuff makes GNOME3 look usable. That takes some doing.

Aside from my doubts about their ability, I also find the concept deeply flawed. Cheap support infrastructure does not currently exist for a dockable phone. Sure, you can use it as a desktop, you just need to buy a dock that you carry around, or a dock for every desk you usually use. Sure, you can use it as a phone, you just need a bluetooth headset that you have to keep charged when you're using it as a desktop. Sure, it's dual-boot, it just means that you can't phone or use the desktop when you switch modes. Sure it can do all of the above, but you have no battery life.

People who need to navigate and use their phone a lot tend to have TWO devices: a GPS or built-in satnav an a phone. Convergence is a great idea, but you're going to pay a lot in battery life for all those features. Running out of juice is NOT FUN these days.

It appears Shuttleworth is trying to emulate companies like Apple, Microsoft and Google by doing the opposite of what used to be done in the spirit of Linux. The copyright clause in all Canonical software, Mir, forking GNOME into Unity and the doublespeak pouring out of the community spokesdrones have been in stark contrast to the early days of Debian, Slackware and open culture. Maybe he really believes he's Steve Jobs and Bill Gates reincarnated and rolled into one: I really think he's got the remorselessness of the one and the ruthlessness of the other.

I believe Ubuntu has single-handedly done more to bring down the quality of Linux on the desktop than any other distro.

I believe the reason Ubuntu is so successful is because of marketing. NOT because of technical quality. This is why I believe that the human race is getting stupider every year. Ah well.

RANT CONCLUDED!

Re:Serious Doubts on Canonical's Ability by ZarathustraDK · 2013-07-30 03:13 · Score: 1

they've basically decided to ignore whatever the rest of the community is doing and implement their own (buggy) stuff which is "better". Canonical's stuff makes GNOME3 look usable. That takes some doing.
They can do what they want to do, this is not communist community where people work together "or else". I'm sure you have an infinite amount of seemingly ingenious ways of how to spend someone else's money, but you don't get to do that.

Sure, you can use it as a desktop, you just need to buy a dock that you carry around, or a dock for every desk you usually use.
Or maybe you can settle for an MHL-cable, which is what it'll actually use. The "docks" you see are simply necessary replacements since they use a Nexus 4 as a testi-bed for the software.

Sure, you can use it as a phone, you just need a bluetooth headset that you have to keep charged when you're using it as a desktop. Sure, it's dual-boot, it just means that you can't phone or use the desktop when you switch modes.
OMG a phone that requires input in order to record! First of all, you don't know. It might as well use the onboard mic, even when docked; and if not, then it's no different than any other dockable phone.

Sure it can do all of the above, but you have no battery life.
You don't know. How much Silicon anode battery tech have you tested to actually know how much power it will have?

People who need to navigate and use their phone a lot tend to have TWO devices: a GPS or built-in satnav an a phone. Convergence is a great idea, but you're going to pay a lot in battery life for all those features.

GPSes don't tend to run on battery, they're hooked up to a USB or similar cable, the phone can very well accomplish the same thing.

The copyright clause in all Canonical software...
Is not a copyright clause if you'd actually care to read it: http://www.canonical.com/contributors

Mir
...is their own damn business. How would you like to have hedged your company and personal fortune on Wayland pre-Mir? You wouldn't. Again, there you go pissing away other people's money on what you think is right. Just because Canonical does open source doesn't mean you get spouse-access to their paypal-account.

forking GNOME into Unity
Dude, seriously, it's old, let it go.

doublespeak pouring out of the community spokesdrones have been in stark contrast to the early days of Debian, Slackware and open culture
Ah yes, back when getting sound out of the speakers was a noteworthy accomplishment and glxgears could be used as an analog second-timer if you opened the correct amount of windows...

I believe Ubuntu has single-handedly done more to bring down the quality of Linux on the desktop than any other distro.I believe the reason Ubuntu is so successful is because of marketing. NOT because of technical quality. This is why I believe that the human race is getting stupider every year. Ah well.
Before Ubuntu every Linux-distro was either serversoftware or Stallmanic neckbeard-distros used by the class' smelly kid. Unfortunately Ubuntu changed that, so the smelly kids were left with no haven; aimlessly these kids drifted around; no longer fed with cheetos by their friends for fixing their pc's they became skinny and pennyless. In their desperation they drifted towards OSX because it smelled like UNIX and the olden days, and now these people are known as "Hipsters".

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If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
Re:Serious Doubts on Canonical's Ability by Microlith · 2013-07-30 03:25 · Score: 1

I believe Ubuntu has single-handedly done more to bring down the quality of Linux on the desktop than any other distro.
Please. Other than Unity, using Ubuntu has been the least painful experience I've had using Linux. Fedora just pisses me off, Debian seems non-functional, and other sparse distros aren't worth the effort (gentoo, arch, etc.)
The Ubuntu derivatives that push past Unity have learned well from this and as a result suck significantly less than they likely would have otherwise.
Re:Serious Doubts on Canonical's Ability by epine · 2013-07-30 04:15 · Score: 1

Canonical's stuff makes GNOME3 look usable. That takes some doing.
I'm sure any distro has rough edges. My experience on Ubuntu was just fine. But then they decided that neither preserving their user's work-flow equity nor advance notice of aggressive disruption were valid terms in the quality equation, so I bailed out of their ecosystem with extreme prejudice. Some of us older types actually derive value from persisting with entrenched methods.
Sometime nearly a decade ago I came across a Motorola web site for some hot embedded processor where you had to sign a form declaring an intent to purchase no less 10,000 parts (if selected) in order to receive the specification sheet.
Even if just a drop in the cell phone ocean, there's no reason the chip vendors can't cut a competitive price on volumes of 40,000 where larger commitments already exist on other contracts. The main reason they don't do this is to keep those large commitments happy that they are getting a favourable price. It has nothing to do with scale.
Samsung in particular would like to see some differentiation in the phone market where they are less under Google's thumb. I can see Samsung going "oh hell, sure, if you're only going to do a pilot run on a concept phone, we'll give you our best volume price on the components and watch with interest from the sidelines". At the same time, there are any number of premium Android phone design teams who have fallen on hard times who wouldn't turn down a third-party hardware design contract while they try to pick themselves up off the canvas.
Ubuntu is more than capable of getting the Linux component to work at least decently by the standards of people who view change as entertainment.
I don't see this project as being that risky if Ubuntu has already lined up the right concessions on the componentry and hardware design fronts. I just think it's a silly amount to pay for an Asus Transformer that dual boots. But hey, whatever floats your boat. What I do know about this kind of thing is that many people suck at NPV specs deflation. The kickstarter fora always fill up with people on delivery day who skipped the algebra class on slope and intercept.
Re:Serious Doubts on Canonical's Ability by steelfood · 2013-07-30 07:04 · Score: 1

Sure, you can use it as a phone, you just need a bluetooth headset that you have to keep charged when you're using it as a desktop.
Actually, a lot of people use Skype while they're on the desktop, as opposed to a phone. Skype doesn't just do video, but it does reduce the need to talk on a separate device (that's probably on speaker anyway).
A dockable phone to use as a desktop is a great idea (but nothing new or novel at this point). It's a matter of seeing who'll be the first to do it correctly. And who owns the patent at the end of the day.

--
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Re:Serious Doubts on Canonical's Ability by lexman098 · 2013-07-30 07:32 · Score: 1

AA++++ response, would upvote if modpoints
Re:Serious Doubts on Canonical's Ability by readingaccount · 2013-08-01 14:49 · Score: 1

If people honestly think Unity is impressive (and hence Ubuntu), then the Linux community and what I grew up to believe in Linux being the epitome of technical prowess and efficiently is truly dead.
Maybe I was right to give up trying to convert to Linux, what with all the FUCKING CHANGES Ubuntu keeps implementing and not realizing that continual changes for a user-facing OS are a bad thing...

Re:No retailer fee either by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:06 · Score: 1

My yugo was cheaper than a mercedes.

You are comparing a carrier branded budget device. Also it was not $200, the contract pricing included the real cost over a longer term.

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by composed · 2013-07-30 02:07 · Score: 1

What would you use a piffling sd card for when there is 128Gb onboard and docking to any lan? (with access to any kind of peripheral)

I was going to buy one..... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-30 02:09 · Score: 1

I finally gave in and was going to pony up for one just for the fun of it, but when I went to pay the only option was Paypal. I have a personal boycott of Paypal, so no funds for Cononical.

Re:I was going to buy one..... by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:43 · Score: 1

there is a way to use paypal without actually having a paypal account.
Re:I was going to buy one..... by rtfa-troll · 2013-07-30 03:37 · Score: 1

there is a way to use paypal without actually having a paypal account.
You can use your credit card, but at least in some locations they start blocking this after a few times. Anyone know how to do this reliably every time?

--
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
Re:I was going to buy one..... by lxs · 2013-07-30 03:44 · Score: 1

If someone isn't willing to miss out on something because it conflicts with their principles then they don't have any principles to begin with. I may not agree with GP's boycott of Paypal but I admire their resolve.
Re:I was going to buy one..... by spinozaq · 2013-07-30 04:49 · Score: 1

You can use a credit card without a paypal account proper if you donate less then $500. So if you actually want a phone perk, you're going to need to create a paypal account. You can however just use the paypal account on top of your credit card, no need to move money into the paypal account or anything. It's pretty simple.
http://support.indiegogo.com/entries/20501786-How-to-Contribute-via-PayPal-without-a-PayPal-Account

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by AdmV0rl0n · 2013-07-30 02:19 · Score: 1

Because some people like their own storage, and don't actually like the cloud storage game. Not for everyone I am sure.

--
We`re all equal .. Just some of us are less equal than others.

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-30 02:20 · Score: 1

Dude, it has a 128 GB SSD in it -.-'

How often do you take apart your phone to transfer files using the sd-card? Never, because you just plug a usb-into it and mount it on your pc.

A key element ... by Rambo+Tribble · 2013-07-30 02:23 · Score: 1

... corporate buy-in, is where the campaign is really lacking. Numbers would rack up much faster with a few $80,000 committments. But business has been burned before by vaporware and a nearly year-long, (if everything goes according to plan), wait to get any return on the investment is a very, very hard sell.

Re:A key element ... by Kjella · 2013-07-30 03:10 · Score: 1

But business has been burned before by vaporware and a nearly year-long, (if everything goes according to plan), wait to get any return on the investment is a very, very hard sell.
Vapor isn't really the biggest problem in the cell phone industry these days, it's that many decent phones sell like complete turds. Either you're a phone that's catching on or you're like totally out and you couldn't even move them at fire sale prices. See Nokia and Blackberry for two large players who suddenly found their phones unsellable. So you have a rather low upside (what can you actually retail them for? $999?) and potentially a huge downside ($399 maybe to get rid of a flop? You can't move flops at $500+ no matter how good the hardware). As a reseller it would look like a huge and poor gamble to me.

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Re:A key element ... by Rambo+Tribble · 2013-07-30 03:17 · Score: 1

Interestingly, though, the $725 commitment sold out rather quickly, while the higher price points languish.
Re:A key element ... by drinkypoo · 2013-07-30 03:36 · Score: 1

Another problem is that the hardware is moving very fast right now. PC processors and GPUs aren't moving very fast so ordering something and getting it six months or a year later is no big deal. But as Ouya illustrates, if you buy into a project in mobile or low power six months or a year ahead of time, it'll be a turd by the time it comes out.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:A key element ... by AdamWill · 2013-07-30 06:19 · Score: 1

I don't think the price points have much to do with it, it's just a typical crowdfunding curve: you get most of your money early. That just happens to line up with when they made lower prices available. If they'd just picked one price point and stuck to it you'd see much the same curve, it's the curve almost all crowdfunding projects follow.

Re:No retailer fee either by Cajun+Hell · 2013-07-30 02:24 · Score: 1

"but I'm leery of spending quite so much on any phone" - how much did that 64Gb iPhone cost again?

$0, because I didn't buy one. So you're right: zero iPhones in exchange for $0 is a fair deal and I'd do it again. Same goes for a $0 Ubuntu phone: I'll take zero and be a happy customer.

This reminds me of unplayable DRMed copies of movies. Those are a fair deal for the price I pay, too ;-)

--
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by CanHasDIY · 2013-07-30 02:25 · Score: 1

What would you use a piffling sd card for when there is 128Gb onboard and docking to any lan?

Heh, reminds me of a question I heard back in the late 1990's, when a buddy bought 2 of the first Gig hard drives we'd ever seen:

"2 Gigs?? What're you going to do with 2 Gigs? There's not enough porn on the internet to fill that!"

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:27 · Score: 1

sd cards are pointless. it has 128gb of ssd. would you put a sd card in your desktop for storage? i think not.

Re:!crowdsourcing by Luthair · 2013-07-30 02:28 · Score: 1

While I don't entirely disagree, Canonical isn't able to leverage scale in the production of the device and it does include quite a bit of NAND Flash.

Leery? by Roadmaster · 2013-07-30 02:28 · Score: 1

" I'm leery of spending quite so much on any phone.".

No, you're leery of not being subsidized by your phone carrier. Most high-end smartphones cost about the same as the Ubuntu Edge, if you buy them off-contract. Look at the 32-GB iPhone 5, it's $749, which is close to a 128-GB Ubuntu Edge (and of course I'm ignoring the Edge's other specs which also quite good).

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by msk · 2013-07-30 02:29 · Score: 1

. . . and no sign that the battery is easy to replace.

If it works with Ting (the best Sprint MVNO, IMO), then I'll consider it later. I like having an SD card slot and an easily-replaceable battery.

Way Behind by Luthair · 2013-07-30 02:32 · Score: 4, Informative

Strictly looking at the ratio of raised : goal doesn't tell the whole story for each of the past 3-days they've only earned 200k. If that trend continues (and imo it's more likely they will tail off further) they'll be ~12 million by the end of the campaign.

Re:Way Behind by Xicor · 2013-07-30 13:16 · Score: 1

crowd funding always is fast at the beginning, slow in the middle and super fast at the end. thats just teh way it is.

Re:No retailer fee either by Cajun+Hell · 2013-07-30 02:37 · Score: 1

My yugo was cheaper than a mercedes.
You are comparing a carrier branded budget device

You're comparing a thing that you decide to buy, with a thing that you decide to not buy. I noticed you said "my" Yugo and "a" Mercedes. It's pretty clear who presented you with the superior offer. One of those companies was more serious about getting your money than the other.

--
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump

Re:No retailer fee either by jedidiah · 2013-07-30 02:38 · Score: 1

> My yugo was cheaper than a mercedes.

The usual Apple fanboy mentality bullshit.

The truth is that you can in fact pay HALF for the same product without the need to compromise. You simply buy the brand that isn't over-hyped all to hell.

It's a pretty trivial thing to do with cars.

Plus the "generic" allows you avoid lots of highly proprietary expensive to maintain components that jack up your TCO as well as your entry price.

That fruity logo does have a price.

--
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.

Waste of money by tom229 · 2013-07-30 02:40 · Score: 1

Want a phone that runs Ubuntu today? Go buy a Nexus 4 for $300, and install the Ubuntu Touch Developer Preview .

Warning: it's not very good. In fact, I found my phone was orders of magnitude more useful running CyanogenMod.

Assuming the edge sparks development of Ubuntu touch, you'll still be able to install it on your old android phones... so why tie up $800 into a phone that doesn't even exist yet, built for a platform that isn't even close to mature? Also, when exactly did it become ok for these for-profit companies to start exploiting crowd sourcing. I feel like that should be reserved for independent start-ups.

--
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Re:Waste of money by Microlith · 2013-07-30 03:44 · Score: 1

Assuming the edge sparks development of Ubuntu touch
Why would it? Ubuntu Touch is a terrible hack better supplanted by the platform offered by Ubuntu Edge.

why tie up $800 into a phone that doesn't even exist yet, built for a platform that isn't even close to mature?
Because independence from incompetent handset vendors (which adequately describes virtually all Android vendors except Google, seeing how rapidly they abandon their devices) is a valuable thing.

when exactly did it become ok for these for-profit companies to start exploiting crowd sourcing
Since forever. I've never seen a "code of conduct" for crowdsourcing that has said "for-profit companies are not allowed to crowdsource," irony given how many for-profit companies are started by crowdsourcing.
Re:Waste of money by gl4ss · 2013-07-30 04:50 · Score: 1

ubuntu touch is what they promised initially ship with edge, isn't it?
"On day one, you’ll be able to launch the Ubuntu desktop from within Android using our existing Ubuntu for Android app. That integration is fully functional today, as you can see from this video." so what they are promising to ship next may is an android phone, albeit with best specs imaginable. including some battery tech that you can just find scientific papers for and that just seems to be coming online. the full desktop is "shortly after".
btw they stole the edge gestures from n9 & jolla.
the whole thing is so vapor that it would have been laughed out of pretty much every other crowdfunding site. they got no hw to show and promise to ship sw after it's done. their plan if they have one is to have some random foxconn etc type of company do the thing for them, however for that their 32 mil isn't that much - not enough to get first dibs on the stuff they claim to be buying.

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by jedidiah · 2013-07-30 02:44 · Score: 1

You're an idiot.

No one futzes with SD cards like they were floppies.

They simply allow expansion of the storage on the device. This can be very handy when you don't want your overpriced electronic toy to be obsolete just because of lack of storage.

This seems an obvious thing in other electronic devices (like cameras) but seems like such a revelation for phones.

Being able to increase your available storage by 50% is not trivial a trivial thing. If this thing is not lame, it could be future proofed to accomodate even larger SD cards when they become available and affordable.

128G? Whoop-de-doo. I have an aging Archos with 500G.

Time for you lame rubes to catch up already.

--
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.

Re:Give Canonical money? by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:44 · Score: 1

we arent giving them money... this is crowdfunding, we are putting our money forward to fund the production of something we want. shuttleworth has already announced that if the production cost goes over the 32M we funded, they will foot the rest of the bill... even if it is millions of dollars.

Re:!crowdsourcing by Xicor · 2013-07-30 02:47 · Score: 1

they arent going to be making a profit from these phones. i 100% guarantee you that the cost of the production will go over the 32M. they also arent going to be selling this phone after the campaign is over... so it isnt like we are funding teh overhead while they make profit on the newer models... there are no newer models, this is it.(at least until the next crowdfunding campaign). the point of this is to show the major manufacturers that there is a market for top of the line phones... so that we can make a huge change in the market and actually see some phones with technology that came out in the last 5 years...

Re:No retailer fee either by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:48 · Score: 1

I have no iOS devices. As far as I am concerned IOS is something routers run.

Try again. Instead I buy Nexus devices, because they actually exist. The markup on these devices is not 100%. Nor are the margins on cars that good.

When you find a car that much cheaper the left something out. Quite often stuff you don't care about. That does not make it the same though.

Re:No retailer fee either by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 02:51 · Score: 1

I am suggesting they are not comparable goods.

I never bought a yugo either.

I did however select a Honda, they are made in large volume and as such can be built from up to date parts. To continue this stupid analogy you are hoping for a garage builder to build you a supercar at average car prices. You are expecting a low volume device to have the fit and finish of a mass run. Go look at those hand built super cars, check out the body gaps and the noises the dash makes.

Re:No retailer fee either by MightyYar · 2013-07-30 02:53 · Score: 1

My yugo was cheaper than a mercedes.

Mercedes has a track record as being a really nice, luxurious automobile. Apple and high-end Samsungs have the same reputation. This thing doesn't even exist yet. It might be a Yugo, it might be a Mercedes. We have no way to know yet, but it's priced like a Mercedes.

. Also it was not $200, the contract pricing included the real cost over a longer term.

Incorrect, I'm on pre-pay. I typically spend about $40-45/month with 5GB of data. I wouldn't quite call the Exhibit a Yugo, but it definitely is not up to Apple standards. That said, it is 1/3 the price and I was able to load it with Cyanogenmod 10. It definitely has Android lag and it could use more memory, but it's still a very fun toy.

--
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.

Re:No retailer fee either by MightyYar · 2013-07-30 02:54 · Score: 1

It's not just an Apple thing - Samsung gets good margins on their high-end stuff as well. This little Exhibit probably makes them next to nothing but does 90% of what the big Galaxies do. Actually, it does more like 100% of what they do, but more slowly :)

--
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.

Re:No retailer fee either by h4rr4r · 2013-07-30 03:17 · Score: 1

10.3 should help considerably if TRIM can be enabled on that device.

Re:!crowdsourcing by ZarathustraDK · 2013-07-30 03:23 · Score: 1

And you have a problem with that because...? If you pledge and it succeeds you get a nice phone, unlocked, with Linux and godly specs. If it fails, you get your money back.

This is actually a good model for how capitalism SHOULD work. By first securing the demand and then creating the supply, not the other way around. Actually voting with your wallet instead of having commercials for an already available supply tell you why you why you should demand them.

If you don't tell the industry what you want and wave dollars in front of their noses, then the industry will play it safe and just make another "product" "integer++", becayse hey, it worked the last time.

And of course, there's only going to be made 40.000 units. This phone's not gonna pop up in a shop afterwards.

--
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.

Re:No retailer fee either by MightyYar · 2013-07-30 03:29 · Score: 1

Thanks, I didn't know that was a change in 10.3. I'll have to give a 10.3 ROM a shot. My goal is to keep this thing until around April, at which point I'll look at one of the mini Galaxies. I'm still not into the huge Samsung phones. I might even try the lower end Nokia MS phone, just for the geek value of being familiar with another OS.

--
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.

Re:Too bad Ubuntu isn't free by ZarathustraDK · 2013-07-30 03:39 · Score: 1

That list is analogous to holding a bicycle, complaining about how all the other road-vehicles use gas. Yes, open source is important, but when there's no viable alternative you tend to make do with "less". Open source conquers on the basis of merit (VLC for instance), not abstinence.

--
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by AdmV0rl0n · 2013-07-30 03:59 · Score: 1

My desktop has enormous storage options. So, no. I would not really use SD cards for storage there .

Now, unless you have a 2.5 inch or 3.5 inch slot, or other option on the phone, Yes, SD card storage is good.

--
We`re all equal .. Just some of us are less equal than others.

Re:Too bad Ubuntu isn't free by samjam · 2013-07-30 04:13 · Score: 1

I emailed canonical to ask if the full kernel source would be released.

By the time they answered "no" the first-day deal had sold out.

I don't know if I would have bought one, but I really want the full kernel source.

Sam

--
blog.sam.liddicott.com

Re:Maybe if you could buy a phone... by kbranch · 2013-07-30 05:58 · Score: 1

You misunderstand. All single phone pledge levels are the same product (aside from the $10k level), just different prices. The original plan was to have 5000 phones at $600, then the rest at $830. It hit a brick wall after the $600 level ran out, so they decided to add a bunch of other tiers with slowly increasing prices. It's actually pretty neat to look at how linear the funding rates were at the different prices (link).

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by js_sebastian · 2013-07-30 06:04 · Score: 2

The trend of omitting an SD Card slot so that people are funneled through cloud services is disappointing. I personally won't be buying any device where I am forced into being Cloud-walled.

With 128GB of storage, you are hardly being forced to put your data in the cloud...

Re:Maybe if you could buy a phone... by AdamWill · 2013-07-30 06:19 · Score: 1

They just set up several increasing price points for the phone and limited the quantities: the earlier you got in, the less you had to pay.

FSF suggests avoiding non free drivers by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-30 08:06 · Score: 1

I was about to go for an ubuntu phone, but I hit the FSF page and read that the ubuntu free phone is heavily plagued by not so free software.
So I will abort and go for another solution.

https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/will-ubuntu-edge-commit-to-using-only-free-software

Binary blobs by vargad · 2013-07-30 08:58 · Score: 3, Interesting

They are talking about openness, open device, open source, but they plan to use closed source binary blobs. I can't see the point. I won't support this project, and no one should unless they produce truly open system.

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by cbhacking · 2013-07-30 09:02 · Score: 1

That's a pretty stupid argument. I wouldn't put an SD card in a desktop for storage, but I would certainly use one for transferring files to a mobile device... except, oh wait, he mobile device doesn't have a card slot. And I would gladly put a second HDD in a desktop for storage, which is equivalent (in terms of expected storage used on the device) to putting a microSD into a phone for storage.

128GB sounds like a lot for a phone now - my current phone only has 80GB, and that's counting the uSD card - but in a couple years it won't be so impressive. On the other hand, in a couple years, 128GB microSDXC cards will be affordable (not cheap, but in line with expected price/GB); just one of those would bring the phone to a cool 256GB. I already have *more* than 256GB of data (recorded TV alone, never mind other things like music and apps and synching all my email instead of just the recent bit) which I'd like to put on my phone rather than trying to stream it over the cellular link or even over WiFi (which is often actually slower than a good LTE connection).

--
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...

specs comparison by Xicor · 2013-07-30 13:00 · Score: 1

this is a specs comparison between the ubuntu edge, the new iphone and the new samsung android: http://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1USDawP-A7PucBDhpJbi6gXlfe1HaKerS7bs3FiTNIbo/edit

Re:No SD Card Slot? No thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-30 16:58 · Score: 1

The device has 128GB of storage. Is a slot to expand it by another 64GB really that important?

If you need to transfer data on or off you'll have USB mass storage via cable, samba, rsync, scp, whatever you like.

Warning, FUD detected by 21mhz · 2013-07-30 21:18 · Score: 1

but the rest mostly gave up their factories in the last few years and the change seems to have been one of the reasons for all problems that showed up in the Nokia Lumia phones after they closed their factories in Finland.

What problems?
Are you aware that Nokia's been producing most of their phones outside Finland long before Lumia was a thing?

--
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.

Re:Warning, FUD detected by rtfa-troll · 2013-07-31 04:59 · Score: 1
What problems?
There are plenty, so really if you don't know about them then it's for you to Google. Here's a random list for the Lumia 900 alone to get you started
- Purple screen - Grays appear with a purple hue...
- Vibrate feature rattles / Lumia 900s often sounding like an electric razor
- Inline remote on headset issue
Just some from the first Nokia quality information out of Google. There's another they list Camera button won't wake the phone - but I don't see why they don't put that down to software quality? Apart from these you will want to look at Lumia 800
- battery problems (probably software-hardware integration; should certainly have been picked up in the production facility).
- Recalls (e.g. T-mobile)
It's worth just having a look through dicussions like this one where you can just feel the astroturfers being drowned in a sea of sadness.
The real full picture is known only to Nokia of course and is well hidden for good reasons.
Now to be honest, these kinds of problems and complaints are pretty standard levels for second rank manufacturers. You need the high volume of Samsung or Apple to be able to get the manufacturing fully tuned. The main reason this is an issue is that Nokia used to be the best of the best.

Are you aware that Nokia's been producing most of their phones outside Finland long before Lumia was a thing?
Sure; however most of their top end phones were in their own plants and the ones needing the most supervision would always be done in Finland first. If you don't think that direct contact between the factory and the development engineers is critical to optimization then you haven't understood why Apple has to take such a control-freak attitude to their suppliers. Nobody except Apple and Samsung can afford that nowadays. In the old days, Nokia could use their own factories to build and optimize quality. Then, as a phone design became old hat, they could outsource the production whilst knowing everything they needed to to ensure that their suppliers kept up the quality they needed.
--
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
Re:Warning, FUD detected by 21mhz · 2013-07-31 06:56 · Score: 1

Just some from the first Nokia quality information out of Google.
That's more than a year old, and the calibration issue was fixed long ago.

Recalls (e.g. T-mobile)
Source?

Now to be honest, these kinds of problems and complaints are pretty standard levels for second rank manufacturers. You need the high volume of Samsung or Apple to be able to get the manufacturing fully tuned.
Oh yeah, such things never happen with Samsung. "If you don't know about them then it's for you to Google", good advice, you should use it too.

In the old days, Nokia could use their own factories to build and optimize quality.
Those old days were a long way ago... Please, it's the company that gave me an N81 with brittle nonsensical buttons at the top and fastened the USB/power port to the N900's system board with a bit of dried out snot. The quality of Lumias feels like a huge improvement.

--
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.

Re:No retailer fee either by MightyYar · 2013-07-31 00:03 · Score: 1

Really? The Edge that does not yet exist? By the time that thing exists it will be a mid-range phone like my Exhibit.

--
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.

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