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Nvidia CEO: We Are Working On Next Generation Surface
UnknowingFool writes "CEO Jen-Hsun Huang has told CNET that Nvidia is working with Microsoft on the next generation of Surface tablets. While sales of the first generation have been poor, Huang believes the second generation will be more successful with the inclusion of Outlook."
Huang believes the second generation will be more successful with the inclusion of Outlook
Yay, Outlook
Hopefully it'll include a more power efficient Haswell chip. The Surface Pro was promising but lacked sufficient battery life.
When it actually becomes useful. At least with the iPad you can use it to play Angry Birds.
Yeah, I went there, boyfriend. *snaps fingers in a Z formation*
Magic 8-ball says "Outlook not so good".
Just sayin'...
OSX pwns.
and not lock it to metro only
Lets hope Mr.Paperclip will come back as well,
The public did not like our original turd sandwich, but they will like our new turd sandwich. It is on rye bread.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
Eventually Microsoft will run out of money to bribe partners and will have to give up. Surely they've alienated a number of companies with all of their failed mobile hardware attempts. There is no evidence that they'll succeed. I'm sure Nvidia will be sorry in a few years.
They should focus in making hardware and drivers for everything, if people don't like the included OS, should be able to change it for something else (android, ubuntu touch, plasma active, whatever). If its only for Microsoft, their are tying their ship to the Titanic, just after it hit the iceberg.
News just in vets are now using Outlook to revive dead horses.
I just got an amazing toy. It's got all these free built in applications. It comes with an e-mail client. It has a beautiful 1920x1080 display and responsive touch screen..
It was only $229 and it was made by Asus for Google. Seriously, you intend to compete with that? The margins on the device have to be thin. How does Microsoft plan to make it up? Do I need an Office 365 subscription to go with it?
Call me skeptical. The first iteration of tablet wasn't that good, I still hate Windows 8, and the price point you'd have to get to in order to make me consider a Win8 tablet is so low, it would be unprofitable. Those people who would buy the Win8 tablet at $200, will just as happy with the Android equivalent.
That, or if you drop it, about 3 inches before it hits the ground, tiny little airbags will break the fall.
Perhaps they are creating a roll out device. 8 inches by 1 inch, but rolls out to a full 20 inches across.
Maybe they'll integrate full android app compatibility?
Maybe the thing will have little legs that come out so that when it's at the other side of the room, you can call it over to you because you're on the sofa.
Is it possible that there will be no screen and there will be lasers that will just shoot the image directly into your eyes?
Some may think that when you buy many of them, you can put them together and the screens mesh together so well that not even one pixel is out of place in the suddenly larger screen that you have.
Maybe they will really make it 3 millimeters thick... really, that would be a pretty nice change.
Maybe the OS will really allow you to "Operate the System", you know someone should really make one of those for a phone or tablet, I don't think they exist yet.
well it's gotta be something good right? Not just more of the same to think they'll break the ice.
Maybe the Surface 2.0 will sell twice as many tablets as the current product, doubling market share, to four customers.
Unfortunately both current Windows tablet customers will feel cheated with their now-obsolete tablets.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Really? Outlook's what's going to save the day? Well, there's a first time for anything.
Please don't, Microsoft, I deal with outlook and exchange everyday. From Office 2003 through 2013, server 2003 through 2012, exchange 2003 - 2013, noting but a giant hunk of crap taking up rack space. Nothing but problems, problems and more problems. The little linux server tucked away at the bottom of the rack with a little layer of dust on it? Never has a problem. But those windows servers? Countless hours of sleep lost by all employees because of how often they go down. Please don't include outlook, it hardly works with your own exchange server and works far worse with technologies not developed by you. For the sake of what hair is left on my head, PLEASE STOP.
I was at a mall this evening and though it was funny that the little kiosk that used to demo the Surface Pro/RT was gone...until my wife pointed out that it's because they just opened a "Microsoft Store". I had to see it, and sure enough it was an incredibly thorough facsimile of an apple store, except the "geniuses" (I wonder what they call them...) had purple shirts, and of course there was microsoft crap on all of the extremely well-lit Ikea-esque tables instead of apple crap.
I'm kind of a bystander in the MS/Apple flamewar (for work and personal use I have a suped-up macbook pro that runs a Windows7 VM) but the sight of this down to the wood-grain copy of an Apple store just made me feel pity for Microsoft. I mean, jesus, it was already clear that their business model since the Zune has been "do what apple does, seems to work", but this place takes it to a new level.
I like Windows7, I loved my xbox (until I had a kid and gave it to a cousin after 2 years of non-use), they can do some shit right and should accentuate that instead of this across the board pathetic strategy of Apple emulation. After all, the sincerest form of flattery is imitation, as they say. I just don't get it.
Microsoft are becoming the gobots to Apple's transformers.
while [ 1 ]; do echo -n -e "\xe2\x95\xb$((($RANDOM&1)+1))"; done
Well, good luck.
The first version of our wine tasted like piss, but I'm sure it will improve if we mix a bit of shit into it.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
OK I know millions of people use outlook hundreds of times a day BUT how many actually step outside of the core function email, calender, and contacts?
Theres a billion and 1 programs that do what people want for email, thunderbird included, and as long as people can read an email and set an appointment reminder I doubt they would even care.
Outlook is not a seller, hell it used to be a value added freebee
Has Elop become Nvidia's CEO recently?
RIM launched their first (and only) tablet without their premier email product. That worked out super-well for sales too.
Seriously, I didn't know the RT had no Outlook! It really was useless for business.
Who happens to be into dinosaurs.
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
That excuse may be the most pathetic thing I've ever heard.
Um, WTF are you smoking? Tegra is an ARM chip. The current Surface RT (ARM) runs on the Tegra 3. The new version will, apparently, run on Tegra 4.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
We'll keep taking Microsoft's money to prop up our failing Tegra business.
Exactly the same as it currently is. Microsoft would make the workers quit, and those that somehow do get fired won't get unemployment status (and benefits) for various reasons.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
As long as it's Microsoft writing them off I guess there might be money to be made. Go Balmer!
I'm writing on my Surface right now while traveling in Bolivia. I know it is fun to slam MS on everything they make and many will wet their pants when Apple comes out with a new digital tennis shoe that will record your steps and post it on Facebook someday. For me, the Surface RT beats out my ultrabook for portability and durability (beginning to get screen marks on the Samsung Series 9 from getting it mashed in the overhead bin of the planes), the battery lasts a long time, the type keyboard is great (not the touch version), and it has most of the programs I need for regular work.
Of course, I'm not designing with CAD on this...will do that when I get home. I'm not programming either...will do that when I get home. While traveling, this is better than a tablet and laptop for the basic needs that many have. I will look forward to Outlook because that is what I use at home as well as a hundred million other people. Get that basic tool included (which should have been in the first release) and this will be even better for us power-travelers that don't need power-laptops.
jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
Who's working on the next generation landfill? The last land fill is full now.
We know there are several hundred thousand or million missing generation 1 Surface / RT's out there. No one has ever figured out where they went and Microsoft already publicly took close a billion dollar write down on them. Educational facilities are wisely resisting the dumping bait of the $199 Surface RT. That means all of those RT's were sent to a landfill. What I want to know is where Microsoft dumped their great embarassment (recycle center etc).
The Surface sales were bad enough. Now they're gonna get the Osborne effect too?
I'm sorry but in less than 3 years ARM is gonna be toast so anybody who invests in ARM is a fool. Look up the numbers, when it comes to IPC an ARM quad gets curbstomped by a Prescott P4 in all but the JavaScript bench which was tuned for ARM, its only selling point has been crazy low battery usage and its about to lose that advantage.
You look at what AMD and Intel have cooking and you can see where the wind is blowing, AMD already has a fanless APU that maxes at 6w with all sectors of the chip maxed out, IRL it uses less than 3w under typical loads and that gives you a dual core APU with a Radeon chip capable of running 1080P over HDMI, and Intel has Haswell and the new Atom is supposedly down to a couple of watts under load and less than 1w in "functional standby" where it can still receive messages and calls.
The simple fact is ARM just doesn't scale well and no matter how many millions Samsung and Nvidia sink into it they just can't fix this fundamental flaw. So far the only real luck either company has had is by throwing more cores (and thus using more power) at the problem, with Nvidia up to 5 cores and Samsung up to 6 and even with all those cores it'll still get curbstomped by a 3 year old AMD Bobcat or Intel Atom dual, the current chips just widen the gap. As more and more people do more and more with their phones and tablets they are gonna want that higher performance without compromising on weight and like it or not X86 has the IPC crown by a pretty damned large margin.
I personally feel sorry for Nvidia, they are gonna be the ones left out in the cold as frankly Intel and AMD just don't need them anymore, although how Intel was able to destroy the Nvidia chipset business without getting slammed by antitrust I'll never know. Nvidia really should have partnered or bought out Via a few years back, the Via Nano is a pretty damned solid chip, decent performance with power drain that sits right in the middle of the curve, not to mention its built in crypto support would have made it a solid entry for ULV servers but now its too late. While I wish Nvidia luck as I believe in competition I just don't see a new Surface finding a niche, not with dual core Android tablets looking to be in the $100 range by Xmas, Android has the apps, the network effect that MSFT enjoyed on desktops, its gonna be damned hard for MSFT to get a toehold in there and with Nvidia locked out of the next gen consoles things don't look too good for big green.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
and locking out steam and other stores is antitrust also the censorship as well. At least give use easy side loading like android.
Odd that AMD is making an ARMv8 server chip next year then.
I'm talking about the Opteron "Seattle", which is supposed to be based on the A57, with SeaMicro Freedom chips on board.
Outlook, not so good...
Microsoft meets at least one of the definitions for insanity: Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
Really. SO f-ing arrogant! "We weren't mistaken, and will double down."
How's all them ZuneHD's been doing?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
As I understand it, Windows RT has one advantage over Android: a tiling window manager. Windows RT has built-in support for "snapping" an app to a side of the screen, allowing one application to run in a "tablet" size space and another in a "phone" size space. This is useful for writing a document while referring to another document. Stock Android doesn't have this because the CDD allows Android applications to assume that the screen size won't change after installation. Samsung's custom version of Android has a multi-window mode, but this works only for those few applications that opt in to Samsung multi-window because it's not a core OS feature.
AMD knows they can't compete with Intel on the IPC in the server space and have you looked at the chip in question? Its based on what we now know is the chip from the consoles which has a SPECIALIZED core from ARM built for DRM functions, this of course will give them an advantage in the server space as dedicated chips will always be better than general purpose for specific jobs.
So just to make it clear I'm not saying there will never be another ARM chip made, merely that it will go back to being used as it was before the ARM craze hit and that is for embedded and specialty tasks. BTW I don't have the time to Google it for you but if you put in "AMD ARM DRM" I'm sure you'll find the info.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
You do realize that ARM processors are used in a *ton* of embedded devices where absolute performance doesn't matter. They are basically the last man standing in the low powered RISC wars and will continue to make their business model work well into the future.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Surface RT is dead. At some point, Microsoft may revert back to the original plan of launching full-blown Windows for ARM, but this won't happen until Google releases Android for Desktops.
Meanwhile, MS has no problem if suckers like Nvidia wish to waste their own time and money working on a potential Surface RT 2- after all Nvidia has found near zero customers for its late, power-hungry, expensive and unremarkable Tegra 4. Microsoft tablets tend to be bricks, so there is plenty of room for the giant battery the Tegra 4 would prefer.
Meanwhile, the new Google Nexus 7 has a Qualcomm SoC that is faster than the Tegra 4, and half the price of anything Microsoft may sell in the near future. The Tegra 4 is stillborn, and so are any expensive tablets that appear in the future using the chip.
Anyway, Nvidia has put the terrible Tegra 4 fiasco behind them, and are currently prepping 'Logan', the Tegra 5. This part matches AMD's Temash and Kabini parts, having a full-blown PC desktop class GPU solution for the first time in ARM space. Sadly, Tegra 5 will be a poor match for the needs of the phones and tablets produced during its run.
Nvidia needs Google to produce Android for Desktops/laptops, so the Tegra 5 has a better place to go than just the latest Google Chromebook. Nvidia can also hope that Tegra 5 will see a proper Windows OS from Microsoft that runs on ARM.
So they are going to fork windows 8 3 ways then:
Windows 8 is pretty well forked already.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Missing outlook is the reason why the tablet did not sold? IMO in order to derive such a conclusion, one really needs to be a high ranking manager not involved in any real work beside exchanging e-mails.
I'm sorry but in less than 3 years ARM is gonna be toast so anybody who invests in ARM is a fool.
do you have a smartphone, a tablet/iPad, an iPod/iPhone or a PS Vita? well then you must be a fool!
ARM processors are in over one billion devices which is more chips than Intel and AMD have sold together. you dont know shit about processors. :)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
And once upon a time all Apple PCs were PPC...your point? Just because ARM is used in X NOW does NOT mean it will be used in X in the future, in fact with 3 major consoles going X86 (PS4,XBN, and Steambox) that will be a further incentive for the handhelds to go X86 as it'll make the likelihood of ports higher.
Again i never said ARM was gonna disappear, just like there are still big iron servers out there, but they will NOT be the dominate mobile chip any longer because they can't fix the IPC problem. What you fail to grasp is with X86 having such an incredible lead on IPC frankly its a hell of a lot easier to cut a powerful chip down, see Atom and bobcat for example, than it is to get a weak chip to scale up, that is just how it is and there is nothing ARM can do about it short of throwing out the whole design and starting over.
Why do you think Nvidia is up to 5 cores and Samsung 6? ARM doesn't scale dude, it just don't. Feel free to look up the benches yourself, an 8 year old prescott P4 curbstomps the latest ARM chips when it comes to IPC. As more and more folks do more and more with mobile they are gonna demand it perform and ARM just doesn't. The most likely future for ARM will be in cheap commodity devices like thermostats, MP3 players, all those little specialized tasks that a general purpose chip won't be good at. There is no shame in that but its gonna be a shitty margin market compared to ARM of today which is why it would make a lousy investment unless you were looking for a quick rollover.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
There's MIPS too, and other stuff used in micro-controllers like AVR.
The consoles use a Jaguar core, which is an x86-based chip; and there's an A5 (fairly low-end 32-bit Cortex) included as a coprocessor. So far you are correct, and I've known about it.
But you are completely wrong about the chip I mentioned.
It's a _pure_ ARM chip not a co-processor, and it's an A57, which is currently ARM's top "aarch64" (64-bit ARM) processor.
By the way, could you point me at the Intel chips that you referred to?
Ha ha ha ha ha! Whew. Thanks, that was a good one.
Wait, they're serious?
HA HA HA HA HA!
--- Void where prohibited. Your mileage may vary. ---
ARM is used in X NOW does NOT mean it will be used in X in the future, in fact with 3 major consoles going X86 (PS4,XBN, and Steambox) that will be a further incentive for the handhelds to go X86 as it'll make the likelihood of ports higher
consoles go with x86_64 because of higher clock speed and frankly, they dont give a shit about power usage. however, power matters in handhelds, something atom cant compete with at all. finally, steam box is not one of the three major consoles, whatever nintendo is coming out with is going to be it and nintendo has never use x86 chips because they are expensive.
Again i never said ARM was gonna disappear, just like there are still big iron servers out there, but they will NOT be the dominate mobile chip any longer because they can't fix the IPC problem.
power is really the only thing that matters in the mobile market and x86 cannot compete when it comes to power. also, ARM is gaining traction in datacenters because it uses a lot less power and is cost effective. when MS ports finally ports their server stuff to ARM, you are going to see a landslide switch to ARM.
they can't fix the IPC problem
funny you should mention that, the main improvement made with ARMv8 is "Advanced SIMD support" and to add insult to injury, it will use even less power than the current generation.
As more and more folks do more and more with mobile they are gonna demand it perform and ARM just doesn't.
ARM isnt slacking off, they continually improve their designs. ARMv8 is going to be a very large improvement in performance (and max out at 3GHz) but if a program on your mobile device needs a 3GHz+ processor, there is something very wrong with that program.
when Win RT actually gets some decent software support (windows 9?), i'm pretty sure we will be seeing laptops that use ARM but that will probably take two or three years.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
In the middle of a job at the shop but if you'll just Google "Haswell ULV" and "New Atom 1w" I'm sure you'll find it, and AMD has a similar offering in the sub 5w space, Google "AMD embedded for tablets" and it'll point you in the right direction.
And I'm sorry I didn't make it clear as I wasn't meaning to intend that they use the jag, just that the ARM Holdings chip they bought was original for the Jag and they are now embedding ARM chips for similar purposes in the server space. i looked up the chip you mentioned and all i could find about its usage was for crypto like TPM and server side AES functions and there was some talk about using it with Linux to have a "sleepy server" where the X86 shuts down and hands over functions to the ARM which really only monitors requests and wakes up the X86 side if anything non trivial comes along.
But at the end of the day none of that changes the writing on the wall which is thus: Folks are living more and more on mobile devices and as they do they want more and more power and ARM just doesn't scale, its easier to cut down the IPC of X86 to meet a power requirement than to upscale ARM without blowing the power budget, hence why Samsung now makes hexacore ARM chips and Nvidia pentacore. The ARM arch was just never designed to do what the public increasingly wants which is why everything from DSPs to powerful GPUs have been bolted on as helper chips but at the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that ARM just isn't gonna scale enough to even meet a C2D from 6 years ago, much less a modern chip like the Jag or on the Intel side the Haswell.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Here's what I'm referring to, from AMD's press release:
Note that this is a FULL processor plus peripherals, not a coprocessor. I don't see any resemblance between this and what you describe.