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Ask Slashdot: When Is It OK To Not Give Notice?
An anonymous reader writes "Here in the U.S., 'being professional' means giving at least two week's notice when leaving a job. Is this an outmoded notion? We've all heard stories about (or perhaps experienced) a quick escort to the parking lot upon giving the normal notice, and I've never heard of a company giving a two-week notice to an employee that's being laid off or fired. A generation ago, providing a lengthy notice was required to get a glowing reference, but these days does a reference hold water any more? Once you're reached the point where you know it's time to leave, under what circumstances would you just up and walk out or give only a short notice?"
No notice is probably the biggest middle finger you can give a company and still remain within the bounds of the law.
As an employer, we don't give references for people who don't give two weeks' notice. It's just common courtesy.
I don't respond to AC's.
I gave my 2 week notice last week because I have no complaints from this place and thought I should be considerate and tie up all the loose ends before I left.
In my state (VA) all companies are legally required to give several weeks notice to those being laid off.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
If your employer isn't going to give you a positive reference, or has been negligent in their treatment of you or your fellow employees, then your two weeks notice is a privilege that they gave up.
Sig: I stole this sig.
Look, dude, if you want to walk out, then walk the fuck out. Don't look to the community to justify your behavior; obviously you're not 100% convinced that not giving notice is acceptable, otherwise you wouldn't be posting this question, now would you?
Me, I give my two weeks, regardless, because I'm better than that. If they want to let me go then and there, well, that's their prerogative. I get to keep my moral high ground by not stooping to their level.
YMMV.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
If a large company is going to have a layoff they legally must give notice.
OTH, a friend of mine gave notice trying to be nice because she felt loyal to the company and was immediately fired.
Personally, I think if you give notice and they do not give you two weeks pay, then you should be able to be legally counted as fired. They can't both say you quit and ignore your two week period.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Giving notice is a way to give people time to wrap things up -- make sure your stuff is handed off to someone else if needed, start looking for a replacement, or whatever. It's done to be courteous, and to make things less troublesome for other people. I was in a small department where someone just suddenly left one day; out of the blue, email telling us he got a job he likes better and is gone now. Which sort of sucked, because we suddenly didn't have enough people for the workload, and we'd had things like vacations and whatnot planned, and everyone had to scuttle around madly making up for things with no notice, and any recovery plan (like finding a new guy) had to happen on top of suddenly dealing with this. Which sucked. If he'd given us two weeks' notice, we could have done stuff like ask him to update/annotate work in progress so we knew what was happening, and started looking for people, and had time to discuss who was rescheduling what to make up the hours.
So it's a nice thing to do, and if you don't do it, people might be mad at you. Sometimes that might be okay. Sometimes you know they'll be mad at you regardless. Sometimes you just can't deal with someone or something a day longer. In which case, well. You leave.
Think of it like any other courtesy. It's there to make things more pleasant for other people. Usually, things like that are a good strategy because they make other people like you better, which makes them more likely to help you if an opportunity to do so arises. If I run into a job that I know a bunch of my former coworkers could do, and I know a lot of people are looking for work, I might try to put some of them in touch with the prospective employer, right? Well, not the guy who ditched out without warning, obviously.
As with all social niceties, it's somewhat cultural, and somewhat role-dependent. The importance of giving notice is wildly different between, say, the sole sysadmin at a company, and one of a team of thirty junior sysadmins, none of whom ever "own" any project, but who are just going through a series of small assigned tasks which are always done or handed off by the end of the day.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
I've never heard of a company giving a two-week notice to an employee that's being laid off or fired
It depends on the size of the layoff; see: the WARN Act. I was once given a paid 60 days absence before the actual layoff because they were shuttering the division. Gave me enough time to get another job, and get home from my first day of work to find a FedEx envelope with my final severance check.
That's how you downsize with class. Or, by being legal.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
These days, while a future employer may not check your references, it's not uncommon for them to at least call you previous employer and ask if you're "re-hirable". It's one of the few questions, other than simply confirming that you worked there and your position, that they can ask. Failing to give 2 weeks normally renders you not re-hirable by the company you ditched and raises serious questions for the company considering employing you.
Also worth considering, if you're leaving a job because there's a better offer or it's just the right time in your life to take a risk (I left my last job to join a 4 person startup), you may be back working with your previous employer in the future, At my last company, there was one guy who had left and returned 3 times.
Earlier this year our head of maintenance announced he was leaving in 3 months time and it was greatly appreciated by the management.
It was very professional of him (that other word in the article) and gave us time to look for a replacement.
Obviously it helped he was going to a totally different industry and he could not possibly be accused of helping the competition.
Besides, a typical European contract has a similar notice for both employer and employee.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Leaving your company, whether by your choice or theirs, and whether amicable or hostile, is a business transaction. It should be treated as such.
They have some value that they will get out of concessions you make, and you will get value out of some things that they offer. There is some extent to which you can trust them to be honest, and some extent to which you may believe they will be generous. The corporation has those same perceptions of you. You're both adults, sort of; you can have a frank discussion about the matter without getting hurt or angry.
So talk to them about it. Start with this question; "Does the company have a standard exit package under these circumstances?" Now you're not forcing the issue, and you're signalling your boss to think in business terms. Then you just talk through what each of you thinks is fair.
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It's just 3 months if you are in France.
Even if you don't care about the reference... How about showing your coworkers a little common courtesy? They're the ones who are going to be picking up the extra work you're no longer doing - give them some time to plan.
#DeleteChrome
I've never heard of a company giving a two-week notice to an employee that's being laid off or fired.
I've seen it happen from time to time. Happened to my brother in law actually - he got several weeks notice and severance. Unusual I'll admit but not unheard of. The problem for companies giving notice to someone is that some people don't take it very well and cause problems. I had an employee quite just a few days ago and quietly sabotaged a bunch of stuff as a parting "gift". (nothing really destructive, just time consuming to undo) Most people would be sad to be given notice but would behave like adults. The problem is you can't tell who the ones are who will take it REALLY badly are ahead of time.
Once you're reached the point where you know it's time to leave, under what circumstances would you just up and walk out or give only a short notice?"
If you are leaving because you can't stand the place and there are no contractual or financial constraints on your behavior then just leave and get on with your life
There are only two reasons to give two weeks notice. 1) You are leaving under amicable terms, have the time to spare and out of courtesy want to ease the transition for your former employer OR 2) You need the cash and can't afford to walk out now. Two weeks is almost never enough time to really be of any meaningful benefit to an employer and many employers will escort you out of the building the moment you put in notice anyway. Unless you had a really close and long relationship with your boss/colleagues then you probably aren't going to be asking for a reference in the future anyway so what is to be gained by giving notice? Maybe it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside but the feeling isn't going to be reciprocated in many cases. The business will continue without you and in most cases you giving notice just gives both parties a couple of uncomfortable weeks together.
30 days? If they want 30 days they can _PAY_ and I'll work late hours for them. Very few new jobs will wait a month. What you are suggesting basically implies quitting before you find a new job.
Hypothetically: They should have thought of how dependent they were last round of raises. My loyalty, such as it is, is now to my new employer.
In my experience 30 days would rarely be enough anyhow. Better to leave them an email address/phone number and actually give them 24 hour turnaround answers. Not instant answers; from home. Let them suck on their problem for a little while.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
As an employer, we don't give references for people who don't give two weeks' notice.
Big deal. Most HR pros will advise you not to say anything more than confirming that the person did work there and for how long and possibly in what sort of general capacity they were employed. Giving a performance review is generally considered a bad idea as it provides no benefit to the former employer but can result in lawsuits if they say the wrong thing. You can of course make exceptions if you like but mostly by not giving references you are just being petty.
It's just common courtesy.
So do you give them two weeks notice when you terminate their employment? That would be quite courteous. Or does the courtesy only get extended if it favors you?
Does anyone have a good template for giving notice in such a way that if the employer immediately fires you, they can't say you "quit" in order to deny benefits?
Fine, worst case, so you're really pissed off. Your mgmt has royally screwed you and all your coworkers hate your guts.
Take the high ground. You never know if one day you run into them at some other company you being partners, vendors, whatever, and you don't want their last memory of you being the time you nailed your letter of resignation to the front door of the building.
This is probably not the case. So if you have some coworkers that you are ok with, giving 2 weeks notice means you aren't screwing them over.
By now there's probably 100 posts saying the same thing, " Don't be a dick. Give your two weeks. If they walk you out, so be it, who cares if it's corporate policy or not. In two weeks start your new job and move on with your life."
Not giving notice is a good way to burn your bridges, even when you're leaving a bad environment. You're not just leaving an impression on management, but your coworkers as well. Even if those coworkers are sympathetic you'd still be dumping your workload on them.
One of my prior employers was terrible. Employees were overworked and under-appreciated and managers were impulsive, emotional and outright incompetent. I was brought on to help improve processes but within weeks it was evident the owners were paying lip service to getting anything fixed. Over the 6 months it took me to secure another job I toyed incessantly with how I'd handle my departure.
I ended up giving these guys nearly a month notice. There was a lot to be done and I didn't want to just dump all this crap on my team. I decided there was no value in venting, in pointing out all the problems there. It would never register and they'd just see me as disgruntled making my viewpoint even easier to dismiss. This way I left with a ton of contacts which may or may not be valuable in the future. At the very least, I don't have people going around behind my back giving me a bad name.
It's completely insane, and they missed out on getting a new COO because a decade ago the guy worked there & just gave a standard 2 weeks... And it wasn't discovered until they'd made the decision to hire him...
If neither party wishes to enforce that clause of the contract, and they both agree to ignore it, what would stop them from proceeding with the hire?
Absolutely nothing.
The fact is the company wished to enforce that clause more than they wanted to hire him. The contract did NOT force their hand, it was entirely their choice. Bottom line: the company your buddy works for is managed by idiots.
Places my wife has worked just have a blanket policy that they won't re-hire someone.
That's mostly a statement that:
"Look, if you leave, we're not your safety net while you look for a better job, we'll find someone else who is looking to stay with us."
This is fairly common, especially at, I'll call them less desirable "tier 2" employers that get used like safety nets by the employees. The employee gets a job, works for a while, finds a better job at a "tier 1" company, loses it a few months later, and then retreats back to their original employer. A few months later they do it again. And its not just one employee doing it, but a chunk of their work force.
In reality, the policy is selectively enforced. If they really want someone, they'll hire them, policy or no.
I think if you don't give notice then it raises red flags for your new employer.
If you already have a new employer then why would it raise flags? They've already hired you and (probably) have no idea what sort of circumstances you plan to leave your old employer under unless you have informed them and that would be pretty dumb to do.
But industries are so small that why would you want to burn bridges?
Sometimes bridges are worth burning. Not a good idea as a general practice I'll concur but if someone came to me and said I'll triple your salary, you'll work with nice people and you get to work 20 hours a week I'd consider burning a few bridges for that. I've also had the "pleasure" of working for a few real douchebags and those are bridges I wouldn't mind burning either.
I saw a person I used to work with, when interviewing. I cut the interview short. Told them if they were the kind of place that hires him, I wasn't interested. Greazy bastard doing the interview acted like I'd just taken a dump on his desk.
Burned that bridge _before_ I crossed it. Dodged a bullet.
_Never_ burn any bridges you've got a period of work associated with. Obvious hell holes can be opportunities for fun and mischief.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
If the author works for a helpdesk in Louisville Kentucky that has a name similar to a certain muscle do yourself a favor and just get out.
Rock?
Venis?
Bergina?
Janus?
C'mon, man, don't leave us hangin!
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
This kind of thing works both ways, at least here in Netherlands. How is it a "human right" to have to suffer your old job for another month when you have a new one lined up. Or worse, having to miss an opportunity because the notice period is too long. As an employee I have nothing but disgust for these types or rules.
No notice is probably the biggest middle finger you can give a company and still remain within the bounds of the law.
I assure you it is not. There are much worse things you can do without breaking a single law. Doesn't make doing them a good idea but no notice is really barely better than 2 weeks notice. Businesses should assume people won't necessarily show up the next day because sometimes accidents happen. I've had employees suddenly get very ill and from the perspective of the operations of business that is really no different. If a company is really screwed by one person not showing up then management did a terrible job of organizing the workload and sharing important information and that is the fault of the company.
The last time I left a job, I was going to a competitor and just assumed my current employer wanted me gone. (It was, and still is, their policy in that circumstance to walk the employee out and pay them for the last two weeks.) My boss made a big stink about me planning to leave immediately, brought HR in, and they told me I'd have to sit out the two weeks or I wouldn't get my accrued vacation time. (Which is illegal in my state, but never mind.) So I unpacked my box, and started a new project that afternoon. You know the punch line. My badge didn't work the next morning, security escorted me to my desk and watched gimlet-eyed as I loaded up my box again and they walked me out the door.
No notice is probably the biggest middle finger you can give a company and still remain within the bounds of the law.
If you happen to be involved in customer service or any kind of "blue collar" work than a little notice is still appreciated and expected both ways. For Engineering, IT, or any other kind of technical job you employer isn't going to give you notice.. and if you give them more than 1 day things will just get awkward.
Having previously quit a job without notice... I can tell you that there ARE good reasons to do it. I would just caution anybody who is considering skipping the common practice to be very hesitant to actually do it. It might seem like a good idea and provide some emotional satisfaction to boot, but the side effects can be far reaching.
In my case, I was verbally abused and threatened by my employer without cause. This was part of a pattern of behavior that included not paying me as promised and infractions of labor laws. One day I got yelled at for an hour for something I didn't do. It was bad enough that I came in that night, packed up my stuff and left my resignation, keys and company cell phone on my employer's desk. Needless to say, they where really upset with me then.
I was justified but I can tell you the ramifications of giving no notice and ticking off a past employer can be far reaching. Future employers are likely going to be checking your past employment history, calling and asking questions. Most employers are careful and don't say much, but some (like the one I had trouble with) where more than willing to dish out dirt, true or not. I'm pretty sure it cost me a few job offers before I found out and it took legal action to get them to stop.
Why do I share this? As a warning. You ALWAYS want to leave in the best way possible. Don't give them a reason to say bad things about you because it may cause you issues with future prospective employers. . Give the two weeks notice, more if you can. As you leave, do your best to keep it positive, give them your contact information and offer to be helpful even after you are gone. Don't burn the bridges unless you *really* have no other choice. Where it might be a nice feeling to just pack up and leave with a "Oh by the way, I'm not coming back. So long suckers!" The negative effects on your future job prospects are hard to know. Don't risk it.
ALWAYS give 2 weeks notice.. Unless you simply cannot stay another day for any reason...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Not because the assholes at work deserve it, rather you deserve and you are better as an adult not to sink to their level.
If you leave without a reference they win and you get screwed over again in the job search.
You can argue about how employers do not give you the 2 weeks why should you give them that! But economic reality is the employer always has the bargaining power and there is little or nothing you can do to change this.
My story:
I left and fired my employer just like they fire other people. I mentioned what was acceptable and not for the contract and work load and pay and customer satisfaction (they were not treating them well).
1. After being abused and picked on and not appreciated I had a talk and documented it in an email.
2. Next, I had a second talk with her and her boss about what is going on and how we can over come this and they were not open
3. After cussing at me over something over my control and near sabatage for helping a vice president out that threatened me with discipline for not following orders as I was supposed to blow her off I frankly had it.
4. Forth interaction I treated it like a firing. I said on this date you said this and that and you failed to deliver. We talked about this remember? I do not like how I am being treated. I do not feel valued or appreciated. You are not happy with me here anyway right?
At this point I am officially giving you my 2 week notice as I do not feel we have a good fit.
It was very liberating and the look on their faces was that of shock. The bosses boss begged me to come back :-( But I made a deal and a deal is a deal. So in essence I won and got a reference and stood up for myself in a professional method using their own medicine.
http://saveie6.com/
There are much worse things you can do without breaking a single law.
Like scheduling surgery and a European vacation such that your unscheduled (from the company's point of view) paid medical leave and scheduled paid vacation butt up against one another so you miss six months of work? Bonus: get the wife pregnant three months before the surgery and take some paternity leave.
If I'm the hiring person and you don't give your current employer notice then I'll assume that you are a snake and will do the same to me later, regardless of whether I would need knowledge transition at that point.
You SHOULD assume that any employee might not give you notice. Sometimes employees aren't able to give you notice because they fall ill. Sometimes they get an opportunity and have to act on it immediately. Sometimes things just don't work out between the company and the employee. Plan accordingly. I run a small manufacturing company and I assure you that two weeks notice makes little practical difference. It's certainly not enough to find and train an adequate replacement and if you cannot gracefully transition that person's work then management screwed up bad. In my case that means *I* screwed up since I'm the boss.
The two weeks notice thing is nice and courteous but if someone is leaving without prior notice the first place you should look if you want to know why is in the mirror. I've walked out of jobs without any notice and I assure you that it was because of the unprofessional behavior of those I worked for. It doesn't necessarily mean they are a "snake" but what it does mean is that you have a poor understanding of what at-will employment really means.
How sure are you that you won't ever want the old job as a reference? I've been surprised at how well some older references have worked for me.
I've been in the workforce for about 25 years now. A good reference is NEVER a company. It is a person you know. It is impossible for a company to have a personal relationship with you or to know you. It is always a close colleague or someone I had a good personal relationship with who provided the references. Whether I gave two weeks notice or not has never once been a factor.
I was once called into a meeting and told directly to lie to my clients.
I politely explained I could not do that and watched my manager's face turn red as he raised his voice and insisted I would.
The next day I walked out. The company had already bounced a few paychecks so I felt there was no obligation on my part to offer a two week notice.
After I walked out, my (former) manager began calling my client list and started bad mouthing me for my "unprofessional" conduct.
I found this out because later that day I received several calls at home from clients asking me to keep them in mind when I landed my next job.
Two clients even offered me employment. Most of my clients followed me to the next company I went to work for.
Years later, my former manager found me at a trade show where he walked up and directed a few insults my way.
After he walked away someone else remarked, "What a douchebag!" I just smiled and changed the topic.
I've regretted a few choices I've made in my career, but I've never once regretted my decision to walk out.
"Kittens give Morbo gas!"
Many years ago, I used to co-own a restaurant. A sous chef who had worked for us two years gave two weeks notice that would have him leave the day before Mothers Day for a "better opportunity". Since he was an employee in a key position, it would take longer than two weeks to interview, hire and train somone at his level. We asked if he would stay through Mothers Day (so just one more day and we'd pay him double time for that day) since we only had him and the chef (the other owner) to cook and it would place a huge burden on the chef. He declined.
It turned out that he did not have another job but just wanted to avoid working on Mothers Day (the busiest and most harrowing day in the industry). While I never gave him a bad reference (he was an excellent employee), he could not find a job in town because the kitchen staff talked about his day-before-Mothers-Day departure to their friends in other restaurants; they were pissed at him. He finally moved out of town to find employment.
MORAL: Leaving like a douchebag never pays off like you think it will.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Being a good person is something that will always be good for you.
Demonstrably not true. And giving two weeks notice or not giving two weeks notice does not determine whether you are a good person or not. There are circumstances where not giving any notice is perfectly appropriate and justified. The reverse is sometimes true as well. If someone is treating me badly then I am going to leave. It's MY life and I'm not going to waste it trying to martyr myself proving how much better I am than someone I don't respect.
Being an asshole because you can not see any immediate ramifications of your poor decision does not make it a good one.
Cute (though false) way to frame the issue but first you need to prove that not giving two weeks notice somehow will prove to be a "poor decision". It might but since none of us can see the future with perfect clarity you're going to have a pretty hard case to make. Furthermore you'll have to prove how quitting immediately makes someone an "asshole". They might be one but that typically is established LONG before they leave their job.
The is no federal requirement for them to do so, the actual laws may vary from state to state, but in many states they are not required to cash out your vacation time.
Many companies have a policy to cash out vacation time, provided you do give 2 weeks notice, so no notice, no vacation pay.
When ever you can, do the professional thing and give the two (or more) weeks notice. It is always good to exceed expectations with employers. Go above and beyond what they expect or deserve. Always give proper notice, even when you don't want too.
I know it is tempting.. Man it would feel good to march down there and toss the resignation letter on the bosses desk and just say "So Long Sucker!" However, remember that this guy could be talking about you to some prospective employer in the future or you may run into him some other place. You may not know when or how, but it is *possible* his opinion of you may come around to haunt you. It's a small world. I had an issue with a past employer who got miffed it's not a good thing. I don't know how many jobs that cost me before I found out. Don't just hand somebody a reason to bad mouth you if you can help it because the world is pretty small sometimes.
I was laid off once, and I left my contact information with them. "Call me if you need anything I can help you with." They did call, multiple times. I helped them when I could. They didn't deserve it, having canned me, but I got good references out of being professional and helpful. Yea I was miffed at them for laying me off, but I was professional about it. In the end they realized that they had done the wrong thing and asked me to come back. (No, I didn't take the offer..) Proving that they made a mistake was WORTH the effort. I got lots of satisfaction in turning down their offer, but I still get glowing references from them... :)
Always keep it professional. Always leave on the best terms you can. Go out of your way if only to show them how a real professional acts. It may not pay off, but you never know when it might.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
If they were willing to yell at you for things you didn't do, how do you know that they wouldn't have lied about you anyway had you given 2 weeks notice?
Sir, a gentleman is NEVER unintentionally rude.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
No notice is probably the biggest middle finger you can give a company and still remain within the bounds of the law.
I assure you it is not. There are much worse things you can do without breaking a single law. Doesn't make doing them a good idea but no notice is really barely better than 2 weeks notice. Businesses should assume people won't necessarily show up the next day because sometimes accidents happen. I've had employees suddenly get very ill and from the perspective of the operations of business that is really no different. If a company is really screwed by one person not showing up then management did a terrible job of organizing the workload and sharing important information and that is the fault of the company.
You, and many others here, sound like you've never worked for a small business. I assure you that for small businesses having an employee quit is often a big difficulty. It often means that others have to step in and do the work of the person who quit until that person can be replaced and the replacement is trained. Small business isn't a football team with a backup quarterback waiting on the sidelines warmed up and ready to play. The margins are tight and there isn't money for extra employees. When someone gives 2 weeks that gives a tiny bit of breathing room for the employer to begin finding someone new, and is the minimum courtesy for a professional leaving a job. Quitting and walking out without notice is appalling rude. I can't blame people for leaving if they found something better, but the way they leave is often more revealing of character than anything else.
Luckily this is something that decent people just know, and just do. If you have to ask then I hope it is because you work for a terrible employer, if not, I hope you aren't applying for a job at my office.
-- QED
I've walked out on places in my career without notice because the places sucked ass, it never hurt me or my network of references.
I've also given notice to organizations (sometimes as much as 8 weeks) where I was moving to a better opportunity but I still had respect for my coworkers and the opportunities I had while working there. It's common courtesy.
Then there's the other places, two of them, where it was easier to drop my badge on a desk and walk out because they'd would have had Security walk me out anyway. Of all the retarded policies companies have about employees, that one is the rudest, most offensive that a company can take. If a guy says I quit, walking him/her out just makes your whole organization look like a bunch of douche bags.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Was "National 'Don't Be A Dick' Day." Don't be a dick. Give appropriate notice. Whether or not your employer cares or handles it well, is another story and, IMHO, not really relevant to not being a dick. Even if your boss/employer is a dick, that doesn't mean you have to stoop to his/her level, does it? And what does it say about you if you just up and leave without giving your employer and co-workers an opportunity to plan for your departure? even if they don't take advantage of said opportunity, you are being a stand-up guy/girl.
I expect that there will be some who will pooh-pooh this and say something to the effect of "it's a tough world, no one is going to go out of their way to make things easier for me, why should I stick my neck out for anyone if it doesn't directly benefit me?"
Well, the reason is simple. quality human beings are honest and do the right thing *because it's the right thing to do* not for some perceived or real benefit. So I guess the question is, "do you want to be a quality human being?" answer that question and you'll know what to do.
Oh, and you're welcome.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
I own a company and I always put in the employment agreement a requirement of 15 days' notice if the employee wishes to leave, and 15 days' notice if I wish to terminate the employee without cause (with an option to simply pay the employee without requiring him/her to show up for work.)
If a really unhappy employee wanted to leave right away, I'd consider waiving the requirement, but I put it in as protection for me so I'm not scrambling to replace a valuable employee with no notice.
I left a job, where I sometimes arrived 5-10 minutes late. But many days could find myself stuck till late evening finishing up a rush order.
If you want employees to be perfectly timely at 9-5, then it should be reciprocated. 5pm you're on your own boss. If you want to invade that personal time, then you need to be understsanding if they're a few minutes late. (The exception is life critical jobs, nurses, etc. But for most of us, that's not the case.)
The truth is, because of economic recessions and big corporate lobbying, there is an economic environment which mostly favors the employers. The fact that you are in a more powerful position, doesn't make you right in your demands. It simply means you are a tyrant.
A moral employer would say, hey, I respect you. Either by saying I want you here 9-5, and you are not obligated to be here outside of those times. OR we understand life, and the world are crazy. We expect you to normally be in by 9am. Or at least within a few minutes. But we're flexible. Likewise, there will be days when we really need your help beyond 5pm.
And we can all be mutually respectful.
I've been laid off on the spot, but generally they pay me for the next two weeks without requiring me to be there. That's pretty much better than notice and then requiring you to train others those last two weeks.
My mom volunteered for early retirement in lieu of being subject to the next round of layoffs at her long-time employer. In exchange her employer paid her insurance for six months before allowing COBRA to kick in and gave her one year's severance up front. Along with this, she walked away knowing she probably saved someone else's job because she was a top performer.
We've all heard stories about (or perhaps experienced) a quick escort to the parking lot upon giving the normal notice, and I've never heard of a company giving a two-week notice to an employee that's being laid off or fired.
At the end of the dot.com era I was at 3 companies that gave ample notice, one even gave a severance package. Yes, companies that just turn off your door card and send you an email do exist , but not all companies are that low class.
Not giving two weeks notice can STILL tarnish a reputation. The worst that will happen is that you will get two weeks off unpaid, with which to relax and prepare for your next job.
I hear what you are saying about how some companies treat people, so I would never give more than 2 weeks.
Some companies *do* give advance notice of a layoff.
I worked for DEC/Compaq/HP on-and-off for 25 years. Was layed off three times (the middle time cancelled when the division moved to Texas and I agreed to a transfer instead). I always had at least 4 weeks notice. The first time the entire department was told 8 weeks in advance; by the time L-Day arrived all but two people (out of 50) in the department had found new jobs. This practice generated tremendous loyalty. Some departing employees worked extra hard to make sure what they were leaving behind was in good shape before they left.
Look how the company (and your local management) treats people it is downsizing. When you leave give them the same consideration.
The two-week "knowledge transfer" period can really suck. "We need you to write down everything that you know that we will ever need, and then brain-dump on these other less-qualified people who were never any help before, and won't be any help after you left except to blame you for anything that goes wrong."
If it's not documented well enough that you could walk out today, two weeks won't help.
My prior company's employment contract mentions that benefits stop immediately when you give notice and they do not have to pay your accumulated vacation days. During their last restructuring people complained of these provisions being actually used.
I gave 2 days' notice after using up vacation days and getting health care started with the new company. That's to cover my ass. Fuck if I want some insurance company 30 years from now to claim my car accident was caused by a pre-existing condition on the day I was switching jobs. Of course, I wrapped up all my projects and "cross-trained" others in all my work before leaving. That's being professional. Got three public, positive references after quitting and they are brining me back as a consultant.
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch