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President of Brazil Lashes Out At NSA Espionage Programs In Speech To UN

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "The Guardian reports that Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff launched a blistering attack on US espionage at the UN general assembly, accusing the NSA of violating international law by its indiscriminate collection of personal information of Brazilian citizens and economic espionage targeted on the country's strategic industries. 'Personal data of citizens was intercepted indiscriminately. Corporate information – often of high economic and even strategic value – was at the center of espionage activity,' said Rousseff. 'Brazilian diplomatic missions, among them the permanent mission to the UN and the office of the president of the republic itself, had their communications intercepted.' Rousseff's angry speech was a direct challenge to President Barack Obama, who was waiting in the wings to deliver his own address to the UN general assembly, and represented the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. Washington's efforts to smooth over Brazilian outrage over NSA espionage have so far been rebuffed by Rousseff, who has proposed that Brazil build its own internet infrastructure. 'Friendly governments and societies that seek to build a true strategic partnership, as in our case, cannot allow recurring illegal actions to take place as if they were normal. They are unacceptable.'"

260 comments

  1. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Enough said.

    1. Re:Good by Austrian+Anarchy · · Score: 5, Funny

      I wonder what the NSA folks were saying about this speech in the hours before it was given?

      --
      Time Bomber the Book coming soon.
    2. Re:Good by TWiTfan · · Score: 1

      They probably had several conflicting lies, and changed their position every few minutes.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    3. Re:Good by Luckyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Considering that contents of the speech were widely known quite a while before it was given by the press, I imagine they were probably stepping up their efforts to pour money into Rousseff's political opponents pockets while preparing an assassination mission, as US has usually done when a Latin America leader didn't please them.

    4. Re:Good by Sique · · Score: 1
      Countries prosecute foreign spies they catch spying.

      You were saying? NSA spies caught spying on Brazil should be shot?

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    5. Re:Good by lexa1979 · · Score: 2

      I don't know if I have to mod this "Funny" or "Insightful"... So, I'll just leave a comment.

    6. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If the US doesn't claim and extract them, that's certainly a real possibility. I don't know what Brazil's laws are for espionage, but they probably aren't like China or North Korea, who would likely give you less than a day to live, if they didn't use you as a bartering chip.

      If you haven't noticed Brazil isn't like other South American or Central American countries. They have 6th largest GDP in the world now, if I recall. You could say, they're almost a 1st world country, if they'd stomp out there gang problem.

      Pissing off Brazil is bad if they retalliate economically against the US with restrictions or boycott. They're are right now, the hot spot country, and that likely isn't going to change. Bonus: THEY DON'T HAVE NUKES! If you don't see why that's different, you haven't thought any of this through at all.

    7. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      quit being a little bitch.

      Agreed... fuck that fucker who tries to spy on you

    8. Re:Good by gandhi_2 · · Score: 0, Troll

      What am I saying?

      Cut the bullshit. Every country with any international dealings has an espionage agency.

      It seems NSA is the most popular buzzword for people to bitch about when 90% of the nerds posting here would actually secretly give their left net to get a job at. Websites like this LOVE NSA stories for the keyword-whoring.

      Mad about domestic spying? Good. Jumping on the Fuck The NSA bandwagon cause Brazil is mad and that just makes more people on the bandwaggon? Lame.

    9. Re: Good by Sique · · Score: 1

      Brazil had nukes once, and I don't think they forgot how to make them. They just disbanded them when the military junta wanted to get "development help" in return.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    10. Re: Good by Sique · · Score: 1

      Oh, it's more complicated, but yes, Brazil had a nuclear weapons program, the Parallel Program, and it only got stopped when the civilian government took over, but they restarted enrichment again in 2006.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    11. Re:Good by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Informative

      The NSA doesn't do political assassinations - that's the CIA's job.

      However, they probably know that killing Rousseff wouldn't actually change much: She's ridiculously popular in Brazil (above 75% approval), but her party is only slightly less popular (about 63% approval), so chances are if she were killed Vice President Temer would just take over and continue Rousseff's policies. That means they won't try that, but will instead try to destabilize the country, curry favor with the military, and try to organize a coup like they did in Chile, Venezuela, Ecuador, and a bunch of other countries in the area.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    12. Re:Good by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't matter. Chavez was widely popular in Venezuela in spite of massive efforts to destroy his popularity. Now that he's out of the picture, his followers are not strong enough leaders to withstand the massive pressure US is still putting on Venezuela and slowly losing popularity.

      In many cases, a good cause requires a strong charismatic leader and cannot continue without one in face of great adversity.

    13. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ironic thing is that the EU, and I'm sure Brazil do the same exact things as per stories and items mentioned over the past few months. They just didn't have someone with their secrets decide they needed yuan or rubles over US dollars for income, so their intel services have not been outed yet.

      Brazil is just doing an AOL-style "me too!" The anti-US bandwagon is a popular thing to ride on these days. Every nation needs an enemy to keep their government in power.

    14. Re:Good by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      In many cases, a good cause requires a strong charismatic leader and cannot continue without one in face of great adversity.

      The thing is, Rousseff's party has other strong charismatic leaders, most notably Lula da Silva, who is only out of an elected position because of term limits.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    15. Re: Good by alexgieg · · Score: 1

      Oh, it's more complicated, but yes, Brazil had a nuclear weapons program, the Parallel Program, and it only got stopped when the civilian government took over, but they restarted enrichment again in 2006.

      Now and then our military (I'm Brazilian) expresses their wishes for having a nuclear program, but the government doesn't care much for that. In fact there's been talks for decades about expanding our civilian nuclear program beyond the two nuclear facilities we currently have, and even that always come to nothing. Brazilian governments just aren't interested in nuclear anything it seems.

      Also, most of the time our military is underfunded on almost everything. A single US aircraft carrier would be able to win us thoroughly. Not giving them a nuclear program just fits the pattern.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    16. Re:Good by VortexCortex · · Score: 0, Troll

      Rules of engagement.

      Fool.

    17. Re:Good by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not every country is as bad as the USA and UK. Many don't have mass surveillance programs targeting all citizens, for example. The NSA is probably the worst example in any democracy.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    18. Re:Good by gandhi_2 · · Score: 0

      Oh, well then, please tell us what these rules are? And where did they come from?

    19. Re:Good by seyyah · · Score: 1

      It seems NSA is the most popular buzzword for people to bitch about when 90% of the nerds posting here would actually secretly give their left net to get a job at.

      I know I'd give my left, right and inter-net to work at the NSA.

    20. Re:Good by Monsuco · · Score: 2

      You were saying? NSA spies caught spying on Brazil should be shot?

      The NSA doesn't have "spies" in Brazil. They monitor traffic from within the USA. We're watching server and phone traffic coming to/from foreign locations.

    21. Re:Good by chill · · Score: 1

      You forgot an important country on that list - Brazil.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_military_government#United_States_involvement

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    22. Re:Good by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      "quit being a little bitch" -- ghandi_2

      Fitting.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    23. Re:Good by gandhi_2 · · Score: 0

      1. The US was never a democracy.
      2. You have absolutely no data to support your claim.
      3. There is nothing "bad" about spying on other countries.

      don't like domestic spying? good, fight that.
      what i hear from most of you is "i want to dismantle our ability to spy on other countries because it sounds sooo punk rock!"

    24. Re:Good by morgauxo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, I think we are just happy to see Brazil is angry about it because we percieve our government as being more likely to listen to foreign diplomats than it us, it's own people. There might actually be some kind of consequence to pissing off enough UN member nations. What will the citizens do? Vote for the other lizard?

    25. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get real. This is not about money lost for ITT, Exxon, BP or the like.

      They only knock over people when lots of money and strategic resources are concerned.

    26. Re:Good by zlives · · Score: 1

      "targeting all citizens" i don;t think he was saying other countries... i don't have a problem with spying on other countries

    27. Re:Good by Sique · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I know other countries have espionage agencies too. It still doesn't mean spying on other countries is legal in those other countries. These are quite different things you should keep separate. So grandstanding in your home country and proudly telling everyone it's legal what you are doing is one thing. It's even true. In the U.S., there is no law against spying in Brazil.

      But I am sure if someone spying in the U.S. for Brazil gets caught, no one in the U.S. administration will go in froint of the press and state: "It's ok. Every country with any international dealings has an espionage agency."

      So what you are saying is purely and utterly missing the point.

      And "the others do it too" was never a valid excuse for any misdeeds. You don't believe it? Try it the next time you get caught speeding.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    28. Re:Good by gandhi_2 · · Score: 0

      "legal" is a false concept between countries. they are only agreements, often not even agreed to by all the nations that supposedly fall under "International Law" as pronounced with a British Accent.
      Spying isn't legal. War isn't legal.
      These things exist above the reach of laws as we think of them while speeding.
      If you get caught in the target country, you are in trouble, no doubt.
      Misdeeds? There are no countries in heaven. Countries don't get rewarded for "doing nice things", they get rewarded for doing what is necessary to maintain their survival. Their reward is their survival.
      The US spying on Brazil isn't a misdeed. Brazil spying on the US isn't a misdeed. And either side can punish spies as they decide their laws should dictate.

      It's like you guys are living in a naive fantasy land, and every time to try to make real life reflect this sissy idealism, all you really do is vote for your own destruction.

    29. Re:Good by cHALiTO · · Score: 2

      I can't believe I had to scroll down like a dozen comments before someone actually pointed this out.
      Thank you.

      Our countries may very well be spying on others, but that doesn't mean it's OK, and (I think) most of us don't approve of that, be it done by our own country or by others. Just because it's commonplace doesn't mean we shouldn't expose it every chance we get and complain about it. Actually, the fact that it's become so common that some people think it's no big deal means, to me at least, that we should be even more vocal about it.

      --
      "Luck is my middle name," said Rincewind, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." -- Terry Pratchett
    30. Re:Good by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      I don't know if I have to mod this "Funny" or "Insightful"... So, I'll just leave a comment.

      Sometimes I feel the lack of a "Sad-but-True" category.

    31. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's exactly what they are doing. The police abuse that made the huge protests in july was mostly on the right wing governed states of São Paulo and Minas Gerais (the police is controled by the state governor) and the media gave the protests a white t-shirt no parties pro-patriotism twist to them. At the exact same time Obama was nominating Liliana Ayalde the new ambassador. She is the one that organized the coup in Paraguay and before that worked in Colombia. The Brazilian internet is full of gifs of Obama making fun of Dilma (like he's good and she's wrong) and internet forums are constantly trolled by right wing, pro-US spying, anti-Dilma, even tought she has the majority's approval. They are even creating a military party, "but this time it will be democratic" is their slogan. For the ones who aren't aware, Brazil had a military dictatorship from 64 to 86/90, FIA document releases proved the US made the coup back then.

    32. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are wrong about that, check again all the news. The spying program includes people on major companies and "consulting" for the right wing/infiltrated parties. Part of why we ask for explanations is so that we get and charge those spies living here.

    33. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much; we humans have to stick together if we're going to fight off the human horde that's vying to take control of our planet.

    34. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pissing off Brazil is bad if they retaliate economically against the US with restrictions or boycott. They're are right now, the hot spot country, and that likely isn't going to change.

      Add to that, there are a good lot of people who speak decent Spanglish and Sportuguese who feel mighty uncomfortable about their northern neighbour at the moment...
      Esp with their fraudulently elected US ass sniffer running the gov't (Sounds a lot like another country that borders the US... They both have been pretty quiet on this NSA thing... But we both know your northern neighbour wont do anything to change their US controlled gov't.), things could change on a dime.

    35. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      i don't have a problem with spying on other countries

      Just so you are aware, that is sick and perverted. People like you scare the hell out of the rest of the world.

    36. Re:Good by davydagger · · Score: 1

      Believe it or not the UK is considerably worse.

      the british GCHQ does a "total take" on every piece of data ever, metadata or NOT,

      They also have a new chineese style content filtering firewall.

    37. Re:Good by davydagger · · Score: 1

      1. democratic-republic. Also "Democratic World", has very real conotations to a specific bunch of countries when spoken by a US speaker, regardless of how "democratic" they are in practice.
      http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_United_states_a_democratic_republic

      2. niether do you.

      3. Vauge, I guess it depends on the country in question, and what is being spied on. Brazil was supposedly a nominal ally, and our spying

      4. Technical foul, use of "punk rock" outside discussions of music and subculture.

    38. Re:Good by davydagger · · Score: 1

      you do realize, in cases of Austraila and the UK, this involves handing information back to their respective governments.

      While they do the same to us.

      Net effect, we are all being spied on, and regardless of who does the spying, our nations own governments ultimatey get the information.

    39. Re:Good by zlives · · Score: 1

      Spying is a symptom not a cause. I do however agree that the incestuous relation ship between us, uk and others against their own citizens; typically focused around corporate interests and not nation security, is disgusting.
      Govt spying on other non-friendly govt's because of national security is just a norm. If only we could all get along... we could spend the budget on people not missiles :)

    40. Re:Good by lissnup · · Score: 1

      They could use the 2014 World Cup to destroy Brazil with an unprecedented wave of child/sex/drugs/weapons trafficking and payola scandals funded by laundered money. Maybe some of the requisite funds were being collected during the first few milliseconds of trading after 2pm, 18 Sep 2013, on the U.S. Stock and Futures markets

  2. Can we get rid of Bush yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can't wait until Bush is no longer president so all these foreign countries no longer hate the US. Between Iran stil enriching uranium, Syria using chemical weapons daring us to do something, Russia ridiculing the US, and now Brazil making this speech the standing of the US in world view is at an all time low point.

    Whats that? Bush isn't president and the DNC has the White House. Nevermind, all of this is acceptable as long as a Democrat is running things.

    Carry on.

    1. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, it was Bush's fault Obama got elected

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    2. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by TWiTfan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nevermind, all of this is acceptable as long as a Democrat is running things.

      I'm not sure what alternate universe you just came over from. But in this universe, most of us here on Slashdot have plenty of disgust with BOTH major political parties in the U.S., and their leaders. The closest thing to a consensus here is that the "Democrats" and "Republicans" are both just wings of the Corporationalist Party that really controls everything here now.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    3. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just stopped in from this other universe where the ratio of normal people to slashdot readers is apparently way different then this one. I am heading back shortly, just grabbing a tinfoil hat from one of you so i can show everyone back there what they look like.

    4. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by houghi · · Score: 2

      Oh. So cute. Still blaming 'the other' party. Please do that again and again in the next few elections.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      U must be new here...

    6. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And a WHOOSH, two, three, what are fighting for?

      Don't ask 'cause I don't give a damn....

    7. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just stopped in from this other universe where the ratio of normal people to slashdot readers is apparently way different then this one. I am heading back shortly, just grabbing a tinfoil hat from one of you so i can show everyone back there what they look like.

      Well, goddamnit, next time you come over here, at least share what ever it is that you all are smoking. It appears to be better than the stuff we're getting.

    8. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      Apparently sarcasm doesnt exist in that other universe.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    9. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bundle of sticks.

    10. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      fbobraga (1612783) to houghi (78078)
      "U must be new here..."

      Oh, the irony.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    11. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? It's acceptable? Were you just born? Did you just fall off the bus? Did you not read even one /. posting here? Or nearly any relevant /. article in the last 3 months?

      Beats me why this is rated as Funny. To me it's blatant flamebait.

    12. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by zlives · · Score: 1

      i think the appropriate response is... whoosh

    13. Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hear, Hear!

      Just like the ever so famous South Park episode... it's a choice between a Douche and a Turd Sandwich. In the end the people are bent over and thoroughly fucked before the next party gets sloppy seconds.

  3. Commendable by homb · · Score: 2

    Commendable, but ultimately wishful thinking unfortunately.
    The NSA will just tap the underwater cables or enlist the "help" of technicians at the Brazil data exchanges to split the data feeds. When the adversary has this much money and next to no scruples, the battle is difficult if not impossible.

    1. Re:Commendable by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That doesn't mean that they should just give up fighting. The data is probably 99.999% junk anyway, but that doesn't mean that we should just roll over and accept governments breaking international laws.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:Commendable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Commendable, but ultimately wishful thinking unfortunately.
      The NSA will just tap the underwater cables or enlist the "help" of technicians at the Brazil data exchanges to split the data feeds. When the adversary has this much money and next to no scruples, the battle is difficult if not impossible.

      The goal is not to make it impossible to siphon data, but to make it sufficiently difficult. Furthermore, if the task has to be performed *in* Brazil, so much the better. It's a lot easier to prosecute someone in a Brazilian prison, as compared to the White House. It follows from the same principle that states (software) piracy is more frequent than bank robbery.

      But putting it all together will be expensive; Kardashian shopping spree expensive.

    3. Re:Commendable by xvan · · Score: 1

      But putting it all together will be expensive; Kardashian shopping spree expensive.

      But would it be worth, economically speaking, or the current intercontinental links and infrastructure is enough for the moment?
      It might have been a plan that just was revealed before time because of the political opportunity.

      Anyone has some rough numbers of how much money are we talking about?

    4. Re:Commendable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when spying for and cooperating with the enemy lands you life in jail, those technicians will probably be less than enthusiastic about helping out any NSA agents that might approach them.

    5. Re:Commendable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You seem to think reality matters more than appearances. It doesn't; this is politics. Roussef doesn't give a crap what the NSA knows; every company is a multinational these days, anyway. But every time the US is caught lying, that gives other countries (with the possible exception of China and Russia, who do or did the same in the recent past) an excuse to point fingers, which means those multinational companies start to distance themselves from the US, just to avoid letting that toxic image impact their own (and their sales). And that means they'll be paying taxes outside the USA, hiring workers outside the USA, and so on. In fact, right now, I suspect a lot of network administrators (even american ones) would rush to buy any routers labeled "designed and manufactured in Brazil".

      It would be a huge boost for Brazil's image if the US was caught spying on any brazilian-owned communications cables. And it would be another nail in the coffin of US companies and the US economy.

    6. Re:Commendable by tusam · · Score: 1

      That's a pretty specific percentage for "probably". :)
      It's not the data itself that's often the most interesting thing to spies, it's the context, who, where, when and what else were they up to.

    7. Re:Commendable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That doesn't mean that they should just give up fighting. The data is probably 99.999% junk anyway, but that doesn't mean that we should just roll over and accept governments breaking international laws.

      Problem is how does a person or persons protest these activities? The governments are not going to stop mining data illegally no matter what anyone says.

      From an American point of view, it is well past time we start scaling back government power. Republicans and Democrats, with the exception of their stances on abortion and health care, are the same @*#$ party. First, we have to vote 90% of the current ass clown politicians out of office. Second, we need term limits to avoid the career politicians which only breed corruption. And thirdly, the Constitution Party and Libertarian Party need to infiltrate and re-influence the Republican and Democratic parties to put them back where they were. Did I mention we need to disassemble Homeland Security?

    8. Re:Commendable by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Roussef doesn't give a crap what the NSA knows

      Seriously? Ordinary people don't like being told "Your phone is being tapped". High-level politicians have even more reason to not like it: they have enemies with resources and motive to do them harm. She might dislike economic espionage only at an intellectual level, but her strong reaction is provoked by learning that her personal communications were intercepted.

    9. Re:Commendable by somersault · · Score: 2

      You need to stop making being a politician so profitable too. Politics seems to attract power hungry assholes, rather than people who want to run a country well..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    10. Re:Commendable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Europe threatens USA with sanctions over NSA illegal spying.

      http://jamaica-gleaner.com/latest/article.php?id=46110

      The NSA will just tap the underwater cables

      That would be just more of what we need, more ammo to shoot the NSA with.

    11. Re:Commendable by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      accept governments breaking international laws.

      I'm vaguely curious - what international law was broken?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    12. Re:Commendable by somersault · · Score: 1

      Well, I just assumed such laws were being broken after reading the summary. However a bit of googling came up with this:

      Article 8 â" Right to respect for private and family life
      1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.
      2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

      Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_8_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

      So the question is whether this collection of data is justifiably "necessary in a democratic society".

      --
      which is totally what she said
    13. Re:Commendable by mitzampt · · Score: 1

      It's actually improper. He/She didn't mean to say laws. There aren't international laws, there are treaties. And signing and then breaking a treaty makes you look evil.

      I googled twice to be sure. It really makes you look bad.

      --
      uhm...
    14. Re:Commendable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no the question, as always, has been "is metadata and header information considered correspondence." Which it is not. So nice try, but you really should read more legal documents.

    15. Re:Commendable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you're saying is that the US is to strong and to powerful to deny total authority? People should just continue to support the US government no matter what it does? You should take a day off work and watch some documentaries on the holocaust.

      It sucks, but it seems to be a part of our nature, to balance power between the people of a nation and the governing body that governs the people of said nation. If the people shut out their government, the nation collapses. If the government shuts out the people, same thing.

      The problem that we're experiencing is one where the governing body of a single nation is trying to take over the world. They're acting outside of the laws of their own nation, as well as the laws of other nations, and laws of the world. If no one cares, then get ready for WW3.

    16. Re:Commendable by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Well, that's a very interesting citation, but I don't see anything binding on either the USA or Brazil in there, since neither Brazil nor the USA are Council of Europe member states.

      Note that, whatever your political feelings on the matter are, countries are not bound by Treaties they haven't signed (and ratified, if necessary).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    17. Re: Commendable by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      High level politicians who distance themselves from the idea and implementation of effective intelligence programs rapidly find themselves without allies for reasons they don't know, against enemies with more resources then they expected and outmanoeuvred in every negotiation they get involved in.

    18. Re:Commendable by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      What about treaties between governments? Probably the ones that control the government would be interested in the intellectual property ones. Countries of all the world could stop honoring all IP coming from US, because the US government is knowingly violating the IP of their governments, their companies, and of their entire population (maybe knowing where I am or with who is my privacy, but what about what i write?).

      And there is that little thing called Universal Declaration of Human Rights, that look pretty much like international law, was signed between others by Brazil and US, and have a nice chapter on privacy.

    19. Re:Commendable by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      It's good to make the data interception as expensive as possible though.

    20. Re:Commendable by perceptual.cyclotron · · Score: 1

      Except none of this is really about technology, per se, or even really about spying. It's about image and reputation. The same reason Chelsea's diplomatic cables got everyone so pissy. Much as superior force and technology are certainly big factors on the world stage, they aren't the final determinants. If no one likes you and no one trusts you, no one will cooperate with you. Your trade will become costly, your citizens will find it increasingly unsafe to travel, your people will revolt. You will have to resort to war and extortion on an indefensible number of fronts, inside and out, and the rest of the world will be increasingly likely to align themselves against you. Modern politicking is, in bulk, about propaganda and message control. The National Security State is losing that battle, and it is important to keep striking while they backpedal. They will never capitulate, and in fact will only redouble their efforts, but trust and respect cannot be rebuilt with more defence spending. They have to be earned, and the US govt is haemorrhaging whatever stock they have left...

    21. Re:Commendable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The universal declaration of human rights. (since the other comment was about the european convention)

      Article 12:
      No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

      http://www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Pages/Language.aspx?LangID=eng

      It has the status of international law and I believe US doesn't respect a lot of it (but they voted for it). The problem now is that it did disrespect the human rights of a people that for 200 years hasn't been involved in wars except to provide humanitarian help. So that's pretty offensive to come up with terrorism and national security excuses.

    22. Re:Commendable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I googled twice to be sure. It really makes you look bad.

      True — using "go-Ogle" does make you look bad. There are a couple of search providers out there that aren't sucking government dick and selling you out for money and power — give 'em a try. :o)

      https://prism-break.org/

    23. Re:Commendable by davydagger · · Score: 1

      term limits sounds like a good idea, until you realize there is no term limits for either lobbyists or the office staffers, the real people behind the scenes that run the show.

      We need to crack down on the Public Relations industry. We all seem to understand that money buys votes, but we never ask "how", and "how can we stop money from buying votes?". It seems to be fact, and what is and isn't socially acceptable has defined by whatever press release they put out this week, that may or may not contradict last weeks.

    24. Re:Commendable by __aayhdn3968 · · Score: 1

      This is what I'm for. How come the military makes a standard living wage but the president makes something like $400k / yr? In my mind politicians should make $0, have their living arrangements and food provided by the state. The you would only have those interested in doing some good (for no monetary gain) running for office.

  4. So a Politician is Talking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know when their lips are moving that they must be lying. This is not significant, nor fallout. This is merely another sociopath talking. No different than Bush or Obama or Merkel or Putin.

    1. Re:So a Politician is Talking by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      Nothing is said in public without a reason.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    2. Re:So a Politician is Talking by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      Everything lied to the public is a treason

  5. Small problem with summary by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Informative

    represented the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden

    Really, "the most serious diplomatic fallout" was a (justifiably) angry speech?

    How about when Vladimir "Polonium 209" Putin suddenly became the world's defender of human rights? Or how about when the US and EU countries grounded Evo Morales, President of Bolivia, so they could search his plane for Snowden (a rough equivalent here would be the Chinese stopping and searching Air Force One)?

    Rousseff is almost definitely speaking for more than just Brazil: Her government is the strongest of a group of left-wing South American countries that have resisted the US for about a decade. Others in that group include Bolivia, Ecuador, Venezuela, and of course Cuba.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:Small problem with summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would that be an OK action if this was not a group of 'left-wing' countries, but 'normal' or 'right-wing' ?
      Would you be happy and shut up when Brazil takes the same actions with your personal data or looked into your companies, just because they can?

      Please explain why hacking into the communications of strategic industries of a foreign country has anything to do with the fight against terrorism.
      And why people should accept this as a peaceful activity, and not as a war-under-the-covers.

    2. Re:Small problem with summary by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Would that be an OK action if this was not a group of 'left-wing' countries, but 'normal' or 'right-wing' ?

      If by "that" you mean Rousseff's speech, are you asserting here that he thinks that speech was not an OK action? That's sure not what the posting to which you're responding seems to be saying, as I read it; he seems pretty upset about, for example:

      ...when the US and EU countries grounded Evo Morales, President of Bolivia, so they could search his plane for Snowden (a rough equivalent here would be the Chinese stopping and searching Air Force One)?

      (Hint: I think he's using "left-wing" in a positive sense here....)

    3. Re:Small problem with summary by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      My use of "left-wing" was not meant as a positive or negative, but as a descriptive. Presidents Correa, Rousseff, Maduro, and Morales would all quite proudly describe their politics as liberal. Raul Castro would be offended if you described his politics as centrist or right-wing.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  6. Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by DavidClarkeHR · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... but the moral high-ground one of those things. Brazil isn't exactly spotless when it comes to human rights abuse. Sure, it's not wide-spread mass surveillance, it's just regular police state concerns (non-existent rights for both the accused and the convicted, and systemic government corruption), though they're not doing so hot in promoting equality (or addressing their widening income gap and widespread poverty).

    But hey, they're not wrong, and that doesn't excuse what the NSA is doing. Has done. Is accused of doing.

    --
    - Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
    1. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Brazil's income gap is at the lowest point of the last 120 years. Kind of like the US, only in reverse.

    2. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Having lived in Brazil, that place felt like old timey Chicago. Yes, there's corruption on the government side, but there's crime on the other. The corruption and surveillance is nowhere near China, and the crimes are not sadistic as the Mexican cartels. Brazil prides itself in modeling after the French, but that is just an ideal. And about the economic gap, Lula made it better and it has been better (relatively speaking) than the time around Collor's disgraced presidency. Keep in mind, it's a big country with very dense major cities, so change takes time.

      Brazil has a treaty with the neighboring nation to basically not attack or invade each other. Hence, the military is only there to support the regional police, acting more like a national guard but for violent crimes (as opposed to natural disasters in the US). It would be unfair to characterize it as a "police-state." The police "thuggishness" is comparable to the police brutality in NYC (cop pushing Critical Mass cyclist; Stop-and-Frisk program), Oakland (BART shooting), etc etc. Basically, this is the usual problems you'll find in any large city. I grew up during a time when the police would hit up local places for protection money or they'll find some discrepancy with your business and fine you (watch Tropa de Elite), but I believe that is on the decline.

      Overall, Brazil is one of the "good" countries, by US standards, and it's offensive for the NSA to spy on them based on any terroristic grounds. The US was spying on Brazil purely for economical and trade advantage, especially now that Brazil is becoming oil independent and has a growing economy. And Obama can't come up with a good excuse why the NSA was spying on Brazil, short of saying that Brazil is a dangerous breeding ground for criminals. Brazil doesn't even export mafia gangster like Russia.

    3. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by ospirata · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's the connection with Brazil's human right abuse with spying? This information has absolutely no connection with being subject of industrial spying. Moreover, the country has indeed managed to promote equality. It rescued more than 20 million people from above the poverty line in the last four years. If this isn't a big accomplishment to reduce inequality, I definitely can't know what it is.

    4. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the connection with Brazil's human right abuse with spying?

      FREEDOM. RESPECT. RIGHTS.

    5. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by AHuxley · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The big human rights abuse stories where US supported via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor
      For the past ~~20 years Brazil has had a "democracy" and a generation has grown under the freedoms and emerging wealth, trade and stability.
      The US was interested in Brazil for its emerging nuclear skill set, oil and aerospace exports.
      Things an "emerging" nation is expected to take a loan out for in US and buy via the US not develop domestically and export to the world.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Sure, it's not wide-spread mass surveillance, it's just regular police state concerns

      THAT YOU KNOW OF....

      The funny thing is I'm sure Brazil(as almost any large state actor) has plenty of spies, both domestic and foreign. They just have to feign outrage when another country's spies get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and of course claim that they would never EVER do such a thing*

      *such a thing is defined as actually letting their spy program leak to the general public.

    7. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What's the connection with Brazil's human right abuse with spying?

      Standard American Idiot modus operandi. By pointing at another country's failings and arguing - no matter how incorrectly - that said failings are somehow "worse", these turds seek to assuage themselves of blame and lay claim to some sort of fantasy exceptionalism.

      Also, "Hey, we might be raping your wife, but it's not like we shoved a few million Jews into ovens, like that Hitler guy, amirite?"

    8. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by mitzampt · · Score: 2

      Brazil doesn't even export mafia gangster like Russia.

      That last sentence ruined an excellent comment. I bet you can't name half of the European countries, but on the stereotypical side you got us all figured out. If many of you can stop thinking that civilization outside US and Western Europe froze 10 years ago and stop gulping everything media/multimedia feeds you wouldn't the world be a great place?

      What happened? You don't treat anyone in your country as a (true) minority anymore and go for the closest type of alien? I wonder why Brazilians would be pissed?

      --
      uhm...
    9. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The NSA's job is not to spy on terrorists. It's to spy on *everybody*.

    10. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems that US leaders (even, increasingly, the elected ones) have realized that it's more lucrative to do to their own countrymen (who become less scary when they lose their constitutional rights) what they've done to Latin America for so long. Why stop south of the border? In the "New World Order", everyone will get to share in the same boat. And, so, the US has to be levelled (so to speak).

    11. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      National Security Agency...

      spy on *everybody*

      hm, I'm confused.

    12. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the poverty rates have never been so low in Brazil, the same for unnemployment, and the income gap has actually decreased for most of the population (watch the whole speech, she's not lying), the excepion being the increasing number of super rich. I have no idea how you came with the non-existent rights for accused and convicted (must be american press). At least we accuse everyone and don't keep people arrested for years without charges. Also, there are no journalists being persecuted, there is no censorship in any part of the country (like in the army), there are 23 parties on congress (not one like in China or two like in the US). Also, never before so many polititians actually went to court for their crimes. Too bad that only the criminals from the past 10 years are being caught (from the government that reduced poverty and increased economy). The police abuse from july is mainly state police from the right wing controled states (specially São Paulo and Minas Gerais). As a coincidence, just when the police went rogue, Obama nominated Liliana Ayalde ambassador (the american ambassador that did the coup in Paraguay and worked in Colombia before).

    13. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, it's not wide-spread mass surveillance, it's just regular police state concerns

      THAT YOU KNOW OF....

      The funny thing is I'm sure Brazil(as almost any large state actor) has plenty of spies, both domestic and foreign. They just have to feign outrage when another country's spies get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and of course claim that they would never EVER do such a thing*

      *such a thing is defined as actually letting their spy program leak to the general public.

      Which Brazilian intelligence agency are you referring to, which has committed so many acts of egregious nature so as to provoke multiple whistle-blowers to come forward with their revelations? Your argument is that Brazil is being hypocritical — based on what? Conjecture? Projection?

      Your accusation says more about you than it does about this victim of NSA misdeeds.

    14. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Did you actually read the post dipshit? I said Brazil is probably better at keeping what they do a secret, thus I wouldn't have any hard evidence. What you said says more about your inability to actually read than it does about what I said. You seriously think that only the US has spy agencies that violate people's privacy? You sir are a certified tool.

    15. Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? Since you quoted that phrase, your point must be that Brazil IS exporting mafia gangsters like Russia, right? Any examples?

      Your whole comment ruined an otherwise excellent empty space in my screen.

  7. Obama is weak and ineffective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Obama is weak and ineffective -- and the whole world knows this.

    1. Re:Obama is weak and ineffective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, mr. Cheney, but you've already had your turn at the wheels of power.

    2. Re:Obama is weak and ineffective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama is weak and ineffective -- and the whole world knows this.

      No, Obama is a treacherous, lying, criminal - and the whole world knows this.

      He talked about people but gave money to banks and stock brokers.
      He talked about security but created a police state.
      He talked about peace but put America to war.

      Everything about him is a lie and yet Americans still want more of him.

  8. Criminal activity still to be punished by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The US regime really must prosecute those who were responsible for this criminal activity.
    Spying on people is the act of a criminal and totalitarian regime, and is incompatible with democracy.

    1. Re:Criminal activity still to be punished by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2

      So they're going to prosecute themselves?

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  9. Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Efforts by xvan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Washington's efforts to smooth over Brazilian outrage over NSA espionage have so far been rebuffed by Rousseff

    Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Efforts"...

    Obama with a poker face: Well we spy on you to protect the world against Terrorism
    Dilma: So I was suspected of terrorism, even if I was the candidate for the ruling party of an country without conflicts with the US.
    Obama: But with terror...
    Dilma: And If I was suspected of terrorism, the why did you spy on our major petrol company...
    Obama: Err terror...
    Dilma: Fuck-You.

    accusing the NSA of violating international law by [...]

    And the rest of the world, doesn't care what is the NSA, for us it's the US that's spying, so no she accused the the US...

  10. Fair enough but by gelfling · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What about the super secret nuclear plant at Recende which even the normally craven IAEA says is bizarrely inaccessible? What about Brazil's SNI and ABIN intelligence agencies which are literally only answerable to the person of the President and even that only nominally and that they had been caught wiretapping every single person in the Federal government in 2008?

    1. Re:Fair enough but by morcego · · Score: 1

      What about the super secret nuclear plant at Recende which even the normally craven IAEA says is bizarrely inaccessible? What about Brazil's SNI and ABIN intelligence agencies which are literally only answerable to the person of the President and even that only nominally and that they had been caught wiretapping every single person in the Federal government in 2008?

      Oh, please. SNI/ABIN couldn't find the brand of underwear the president uses, if they had to (it is Zorba, by the way). And the nuclear plant in Rezende is mostly for show, and decades behind most countries with nuclear technology.

      The target is the deep sea oil exploration and the alternative fuel technologies. Those are valuable and a threat.

      And to say she didn't know USA was spying other countries? WTF? Seriously? No one can be that dumb.

      --
      morcego
  11. rofl...Brazil build its own Internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and this will stop the devil from taking over your new Internet?

    hahahhaahahahaaaa

    Brazil should embrace their new NSA overlords.

  12. Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... but the moral high-ground one of those things. Brazil isn't exactly spotless when it comes to human rights abuse. Sure, it's not wide-spread mass surveillance, it's just regular police state concerns (non-existent rights for both the accused and the convicted, and systemic government corruption), though they're not doing so hot in promoting equality (or addressing their widening income gap and widespread poverty).

    But hey, they're not wrong, and that doesn't excuse what the NSA is doing. Has done. Is accused of doing.

  13. Hypocrites by wjcofkc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    She's blowing all this steam and yet they refused asylum for Snowden.

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    1. Re:Hypocrites by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Back then they didn't know they themselves had been spied on. But I agree. It didn't take a Kreskin to see the spying on Brazil revelations coming once they started. They should have stood up for it. In fairness to the region, other Latin American countries did.

    2. Re:Hypocrites by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      They did that because they were rightly afraid of US reprisal for doing so. Its only thing to complain about the Big Bully, its quite another to stand up and risk getting your teeth knocked out sticking up for some little guy.

      We all know the moral, if you don't stand up for others there will be nobody to stand up for you; but its still easier said than done.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    3. Re:Hypocrites by morcego · · Score: 1

      Back then they didn't know they themselves had been spied on. But I agree. It didn't take a Kreskin to see the spying on Brazil revelations coming once they started. They should have stood up for it. In fairness to the region, other Latin American countries did.

      Wtf? Everybody knows the USA spies on everyone else. Saying she didn't know just makes her look dumb. The reason she didn't stand for Snowden is because of some economic disputes doing on with the USA right now. It is as simple as that.

      --
      morcego
    4. Re:Hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US is the biggest commercial ally for Brazil. They have to tread lightly.

  14. And the asnwer is ... by Coeurderoy · · Score: 1

    the near future two main issues are : " Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons, and the Arab-Israeli conflict ".

    So that's cool, both problems have their roots in the 1920th and not looking close to any sort of solution, Iran can transform their nuclear industry into a chocolate factory as long as they do not give their petrol for "real cheap" absence of proof not being proof of absence it can still serve as a bogey man (and they do enough creepy stuff inside to make it hard for them to be really "liked"), and the end of the Arab Israeli conflict can only be solved in three ways,
    - decide that palestine is all arab (and muslim)
    - decide that israel is all isrealy (and jewish)
    - decide that this vaguely federal country to be named is a democratic country with people of various ethnic and religious back ground who need to live together and the only way this can happen is to totally extirpate any reference to any specific religion, ethnic origin or "nation".

    Choice one and two would mean lots of dead people, choice three would be seen as a "bad example" for the neighbours and protectors...

    So Obama ignored the issue, and is just doing a "domestic" pitch for "more money to the war mongers ..."

    And of course a "think of the children" in syria is a brillant way to distract attention, the "chemical weapon" issue is a total red hering, it is just something that can justify doing nothing while vaguely pretending to do something.
    What the F*ck does it matter if you are pounded by mustard gaz or large amounts of bombs (except that chemical weapons are somewhat lower tech than "conventional" weapons, so the risk of doing them "at home" is higher and it makes the was less profitable for the foreign weapon makers, how positively tragic ...)

    Of course we are completely clueless about what we could possible do, the intervention in Libya for instance has just replaced one mean and cruel dictator with a dozen mean little would be dictators...

    In reality the US lost all wars in the middle east when they agreed to let Irak introduce religion in their constitution, at that very point it demonstrated that democracy was dead in Irak and not even remotely the goal of the US occupation.
    (And no it is not the specific type of religion that is at the issue, but the simple fact that something written/revealed/produced/inspired (take your pick) a long time ago would now be a base that cannot be deviated from for all future elected people's representatives....)

    1. Re:And the asnwer is ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Iran wants a nuke because of the Iran-Iraq war, when the world looked away when Saddam Hussein used chemicals en-masse against Iranian soldiers and civilians alike. And I respect that.

    2. Re:And the asnwer is ... by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the end of the Arab Israeli conflict can only be solved in three ways,
      - decide that palestine is all arab (and muslim)
      - decide that israel is all isrealy (and jewish)
      - decide that this vaguely federal country to be named is a democratic country with people of various ethnic and religious back ground who need to live together and the only way this can happen is to totally extirpate any reference to any specific religion, ethnic origin or "nation".

      Choice one and two would mean lots of dead people, choice three would be seen as a "bad example" for the neighbours and protectors...

      The thing is, that a lot of Americans would like to see choice 2, that Israel, including the entirety of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, be Israeli Jewish territory. This has a lot to do with conservative Christians who believe that the restoration of the Jews to Israel is a precursor to the Second Coming of Jesus, and also believe that Muslims are the Satanic forces they'll be battling at Armageddon. Some also have a goal of matching the borders of modern Israel with the borders described in the Book of Joshua and other texts that would eventually have Israel taking over the Sinai from Egypt, all of Lebanon, about 2/3 of Syria (up to the Euphrates), and a good portion of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq, in all cases kicking out or exterminating the Muslims living there and replacing them with Jews.

      That kind of religious thinking is a major motivator of US-Israel relations, more than AIPAC (because there are other Jewish-American lobbying groups advocating different policies), more than the potential campaign donations from Jewish-Americans (again, there's significant divides among Jewish-Americans over the best policy for Israel), and more than what the government of Israel wants (the US has not been supportive of Israeli government efforts to remove settlers from the West Bank or Gaza, for example). Sure, their preferred policy would result in a lot of dead people, but from that crowd's point of view those dead people were irredeemably evil and thus should be killed at first opportunity.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:And the asnwer is ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the near future two main issues are : " Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons, and the Arab-Israeli conflict ".

      So that's cool, both problems have their roots in the 1920th and not looking close to any sort of solution, Iran can transform their nuclear industry into a chocolate factory as long as they do not give their petrol for "real cheap" absence of proof not being proof of absence it can still serve as a bogey man (and they do enough creepy stuff inside to make it hard for them to be really "liked"), and the end of the Arab Israeli conflict can only be solved in three ways,
      - decide that palestine is all arab (and muslim)
      - decide that israel is all isrealy (and jewish)
      - decide that this vaguely federal country to be named is a democratic country with people of various ethnic and religious back ground who need to live together and the only way this can happen is to totally extirpate any reference to any specific religion, ethnic origin or "nation".

      Choice one and two would mean lots of dead people, choice three would be seen as a "bad example" for the neighbours and protectors...

      The problem with you're "choice three" is it would really become choice one. The Arabs have been pretty consistant over the past 65 years or so about their goals for Israel, and those goals do not include allowing Jews to live a free members of secular democracy. In fact, their goals pretty much consist of "drive the Jews into the sea"

      By the way, why is Israel the only nation in the middle east which is expected to become a diverse democracy without reference to any specific religion, ethnic origin or nation?

      Oh, that's right, because the world has a double standard for Jews.

    4. Re:And the asnwer is ... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It really should be no more of a US issue than Liberia but there is a lot of lobby money involved. Personally I think Israel would be a better place without the US propping up what is really far right wing xenophobic interests that their own grandparents would recognise as fascists. The country is not so much in danger since their immediate neighbours are basket cases and nobody more distant has anything of value to gain by attacking Israel in any serious way.

    5. Re:And the asnwer is ... by Coeurderoy · · Score: 1

      The problem with you're "choice three" is it would really become choice one. The Arabs have been pretty consistant over the past 65 years or so about their goals for Israel, and those goals do not include allowing Jews to live a free members of secular democracy. In fact, their goals pretty much consist of "drive the Jews into the sea"

      By the way, why is Israel the only nation in the middle east which is expected to become a diverse democracy without reference to any specific religion, ethnic origin or nation?

      Oh, that's right, because the world has a double standard for Jews.

      You are probably right, after all, all the surrounding countries do have some religious and/or nationalistic setup in their "constitution", but in the very unlickely case that the majority of the people living in this geographical position would decide that this is a good idea it might even work, it would piss off the neighbours since it would mean the loss of the "enemy" and end the justification for many militar gravy programs...

      And I didn't wrote that Israel should be the only nation, it is just the nation with the biggest problem, the situation is similar in Iran (Kurds vs Persian vs Arabs vs Balouche & Shia vs Sunni vs Armenian etc ...) Barheim and Saudi (Suni vs Shia) Jordan (Jordanian citizens vs Palestinian refugees) Irak, Afghanistan etc ... none of these countries have something even remotely like an "uniform setup"...

      So it has nothing to do with a "double standard" and you might want to avoid equating Jews and Israel, nor all Jews are or want to be Israely, and not all Israel are or want to be Jews...

      And yes the world or at least a rather large part of it has a double standard for Jews, and it's very very wrong, and sometimes bafling when it happens in places where there are almost no Jews, the fact that this is wrong does not make any policy created by the government of Israel correct (or incorrect for that matter of fact)

    6. Re:And the asnwer is ... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      There's a lot of religious tension in the region though.
      1. Ends with the Jews a hated and loathed minority, subject to beatings in the street, businesses smashed, children attacked, etc. Many would then flee the region... again. This has happened before.
      2. Can only be sustained by the reverse situation: In order to keep Israel jewish, they'd need to continue the use of openly racist policies in settlement and immigration - otherwise the situation would degenerate to 1.
      3. Likewise, eventually turns into 1.

      So the only way to avoid the oppression of 1 is counter-oppression in the other way. Hardly a desirable solution. There is really no way out of it: Two thousand years of historical inertia are going to make coexistence very difficult.

    7. Re:And the asnwer is ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it has nothing to do with a "double standard" and you might want to avoid equating Jews and Israel, nor all Jews are or want to be Israely, and not all Israel are or want to be Jews...

      The very notion of not equating Jews and Israel is inherently anti-semitic, especially in a world that seems to champion the right of so many other people to have autonomous nation. Israel is the Jewish homeland. Its purpose is to provide us a save haven from the largely unrelenting hatred and persecution we've endured over the past two millenia. While not all Jews want to live in Israel, there are very few who are not glad that there exists at least one nation on this planet who will not turn us away if we need to flee persecution. Its been less than a century since we found selves in that very position.

      The world has plenty of Christian nations. The world has plenty of Muslim nations. There are plenty of Arab nations. Why must Jews give up the one little speck of land in all of the world where we can be sure that the people or government will never persecute us or subject us to pogroms (for any "one state" solution would, inevitably result in the abolition of Israel as the Jewish homeland).

    8. Re:And the asnwer is ... by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      The Arab-Israeli conflict started 30 years before Israel existed as a state?

    9. Re:And the asnwer is ... by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      3 (non-religious secular government) likewise, eventually turns into 1 (genocide of Jews).

      There's a fairly good argument that a secular state does not necessarily create a genocide of Jews: The United States. While there has been and still is anti-Semetic violence in the US, the fact remains that Jews have been safer and more prosperous in the US than anywhere else (including, assuming they existed, the ancient Jewish kingdoms and modern-day Israel). One reason Jews came to the US was precisely because of its religious freedom established very early on in its history.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    10. Re:And the asnwer is ... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I didn't mean to say a secular state leads to genocide of Jews.

      I meant to say that a secular state *in the middle east*, where much of the local population is seeped in generations of anti-semitism, leads to a genocide of Jews. Without some form of selective immigration policy to maintain the majority Jewish rule, immigration will eventually turn them into a minority even in Israel. Their numbers are simply too small: As important as they have been in the history of religion (The big two being effectively mutated offshoots), even their global population is only about 14M. Tiny.

    11. Re:And the asnwer is ... by Coeurderoy · · Score: 1

      Look at : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

      So actually it started earlier, but it really heated up in the 20s after the Balfour declaration.
      This transformed the Sionist "idea" of the 19th century in something that seemed actual and douable and got at the
      same time the European Jews exited with the idea of a "safe homeland" and the Palestinian "Mandate" Arabs scared that their future autonomy would be empty....

      But yes it began before the creation of the state of Israel ... of course ...

    12. Re:And the asnwer is ... by Coeurderoy · · Score: 1

      The very notion of not equating Jews and Israel is inherently anti-semitic, especially in a world that seems to champion the right of so many other people to have autonomous nation. Israel is the Jewish homeland.

      The fact that so many people like the idea of an "homogenous nation" and are ready to do ethnic cleansing (like in ex yougoslavia, Georgia (mostly for the abkhasian part), etc ...) is not a justification of anything.

      There is as much justification for the Jews to go back to Israel, as there is for the non native US citizens to go back to europa or africa (depending) and the europeans could try to find out where they come from 2000 years ago, probably mostly somewhere in the Balkans, Caucasus, Persia or even Mogolia (ever read about the great invasions in the middle ages, lots of ancestors .....)

      You write that there are enough christian and islamic nations, well even one is to much (the Vatican is about the maximum size I can stomac) why should the fact that I'm born in a country have any thing what so ever to do with my religion ?

      Any nationalism is rooted in the idea that the fact that through no fault of yours you where born makes you somehow "special" and you should be "proud and patriotic" because you where born in ...
      And then you feel authorized in feeling more or less superior to the others who where not born in ...
      well I'm "ethnic blind" I do not believe this makes me anti-semitic (and no it's not because "some of my best friends are ..., it's because for me what ever you where born in is just anecdotic, what you are is what you make out of yourself...)

    13. Re:And the asnwer is ... by SwedishPenguin · · Score: 1

      No, it's because Israel *claims* to be a first-world democracy, and as such it is held to higher standards by the world than some random tinpot dictator, unless you want to be the moral equivalent of these. In this context, it is unacceptable for a self-proclaimed civilized country to enforce what is essentially the equivalent of apartheid or worse in the Palestinian territories. It's in no way acceptable in South Africa and it's in no way acceptable in Israel or the occupied territories of Palestine, it has nothing to do with your little religion, of which I could care less (and that goes for all religions)

  15. We must spy on terrorist nations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We must spy on terrorist nations like Brazil which threaten the world with 140F temperatures by cutting down rainforest. Al Gore said so.

  16. International Diplomatic Fallout? by Phoenix666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would much, much rather see Washington DC pay a very high, very personal price for their rampant criminality and violations of the Constitution, as in all of them swinging from the trees that line the national mall and DC itself burnt to the ground with large letters scored in the ground with a bulldozer that say, 'Don't Tread On Me! ---The American People"

    An angry speech by the president of Brazil is nice, but there need to be real consequences for these criminals.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
    1. Re:International Diplomatic Fallout? by cusco · · Score: 1

      Bolivia is suing the US in the International Court and other Latin American countries are expected to join. Not that the US gives a flying fuck about international law, but some people are going to have to be careful about where they travel.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    2. Re:International Diplomatic Fallout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm confident US will, and it will be in the form of lower interest rates on loans or cheaper jet fighters from Boeing. Or worse, Brazil will have access to some of the US spying resources. Of course, none of that will surface on the news or press releases, but both nations will make a generic joint statement about progress, democracy, and freedoms, and let bygones be bygones. Brazil's embassy might get some perks such as a party honoring someone or an art show. When that's satisfied, Dilma will make an official appearance at the White House. When that occurs, we'll know the hurt party has been fed some settlement money.

    3. Re:International Diplomatic Fallout? by abhisri · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The real consequences are already happening. By Brazil making a "noise" about it now, it weakens US position regards other nations disregarding international laws. It runs the risk of say, other nations disregarding their Intellectual Property treaties with US. If US tried any actual actions to prevent this, they would just counter it by demanding punishment of concerned parties. Don't assume that US still has the clout it used to enjoy before. Think of China for example. USA just handed China a license to act in similar fashion against it, and it has by itself, undermined any ethical or moral position it could have had to prevent it.

    4. Re:International Diplomatic Fallout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The U.S. is international law.

  17. Wisdom follows, pay attention! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Brazil is about to buy some 36 advanced fighter jets. The three short-listed candidates were Dassault Rafale from France, SAAB Gripen from Sweden and the Boeing-Northrop Super Hornet from the USA. The NSA-Roussef scandal essentially negated the F-18's chances to win the tender worth many billions. Now the race is only about good political relations (Rafale) versus lower price with higher economic offsets (Gripen). Boeing's workforce must be grateful for the NSA's efforts in protecting american jobs...

    1. Re:Wisdom follows, pay attention! by Rigel47 · · Score: 2

      This is the best news I've read all week. Not that I want to see American jobs lost but so far this the only real consequence I've come across for the actions of those agenda-drunk geeks in the NSA and their raging boners for their data vacuuming machines.

    2. Re:Wisdom follows, pay attention! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brazil is about to buy some 36 advanced fighter jets. The three short-listed candidates were Dassault Rafale from France, SAAB Gripen from Sweden and the Boeing-Northrop Super Hornet from the USA. The NSA-Roussef scandal essentially negated the F-18's chances to win the tender worth many billions.

      USian here... since the F-35 wasn't in the competition the US really wasn't in the competition. Who wants to buy a warmed over Super Hornet? Couple that with the fact that the Grippen has the combat range of a Toyota, and the only logical choice is the Rafale or to restart the competition with the Russians involved.

  18. The anger is justified by ospirata · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The policy of saying "If it was anyone else than USA it would be worse" is simply ridiculous. Or even to mention concerns about terrorism to justify such spying.
    As many are forgetting, let's summarize the real reason for such anger: industrial spying (towards Petrobras, Brazil's biggest company) and spying over a government with more than a century of friendly relations.
    The article points this as well: "As host to the UN headquarters, the US has been attacked from the general assembly many times in the past, but what made Rousseff's denunciation all the more painful diplomatically was the fact that it was delivered on behalf of large, increasingly powerful and historically friendly state."

  19. I hear ya by goodmanj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let me tell all of you from outside the U.S. that our government's excuse "hey, we're only spying on foreigners, not Americans" would be disgusting even if it weren't a pack of lies.

    1. Re:I hear ya by SirGarlon · · Score: 2

      That's not really an excuse, it's a feint. Spying on American citizens is a violation of the US Constitution. Spying on foreign citizens is a violation of treaties. So the sleight-of-hand is to pretend that because spying on foreigners doesn't violate the Constitution, it's OK.

      It would be more correct to say, because spying on foreigners is a treaty violation and not a Constitutional violation, American citizens lack the legal standing to challenge it in court. I'm not a lawyer, but I would guess that an international court would be the place to raise a complaint, and it would require a foreign government to file a case.

      I have not heard of anyone doing that, but that may be just a case of the famously selective American media not deigning to inform me. Because OMG did you see Miley Cyrus shaking her booty?!

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    2. Re:I hear ya by jittles · · Score: 1

      That's not really an excuse, it's a feint. Spying on American citizens is a violation of the US Constitution. Spying on foreign citizens is a violation of treaties. So the sleight-of-hand is to pretend that because spying on foreigners doesn't violate the Constitution, it's OK.

      It would be more correct to say, because spying on foreigners is a treaty violation and not a Constitutional violation, American citizens lack the legal standing to challenge it in court. I'm not a lawyer, but I would guess that an international court would be the place to raise a complaint, and it would require a foreign government to file a case.

      I have not heard of anyone doing that, but that may be just a case of the famously selective American media not deigning to inform me. Because OMG did you see Miley Cyrus shaking her booty?!

      Can you state the names of the treaties that the NSA is specifically violating? While in general, I would say that what they are doing is reprehensible, I do not know of any treaty the specifically prevents us from spying on our allies or foes. It is generally frowned upon, and getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar causes all kinds of bad will, but it is something that has been going on for thousands of years.

    3. Re:I hear ya by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

      Can you state the names of the treaties that the NSA is specifically violating?

      No, and that's not my job. By now many people have said the NSA surveillance is a violation of international law. Presumably, those international laws are written down somewhere. We are still waiting for someone to take action to hold the US accountable.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    4. Re:I hear ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep dreaming douchebag! I'm interested in seeing this "action" that you speak of. It's been a while since we had a good challenge. I like how he challenged you on those phantom treaties and all you could do is cite some more phantom douchebags like yourself. After that you "presumed" the existence of these laws.

    5. Re:I hear ya by Monsuco · · Score: 3, Informative

      It would be more correct to say, because spying on foreigners is a treaty violation and not a Constitutional violation, American citizens lack the legal standing to challenge it in court. I'm not a lawyer, but I would guess that an international court would be the place to raise a complaint, and it would require a foreign government to file a case

      It would also require the international criminal court to have jurisdiction. The USA has never agreed to be subject to its rulings and has refused to abide by the Hague's suggestions in the past.

      On one instance, the USA refused to pay damages to a Latin American country after we attempted to overthrow their current dictator.

      On another case, Texas sentenced a couple of Mexican citizens to death in response to a double rape & double homicide they had committed. Mexico demanded the execution be halted. The international courts ordered Texas to halt the execution. George Bush sued Texas claiming that he had the authority to prevent Texas from interfering with his ability to conduct foreign policy and that the Hague's ruling meant Texas must call off the execution. The case ended up before the US Supreme Court which ruled that the US Constitution gave Texas the authority to execute criminals and that the US Constitution trumps international laws, international courts & the President's foreign policy interest. Texas proceeded to execute the two murderers.

    6. Re:I hear ya by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      The people of the US, and members of congress, still hold the constitution dear - even those that don't cannot openly say as much, for fear of being seen as unpatriotic. Treaties, however, may be violated without much domestic political opposition.

    7. Re:I hear ya by djmurdoch · · Score: 3, Informative

      Can you state the names of the treaties that the NSA is specifically violating?

      There's the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, specifically Article 31, "Inviolability of the consular premises", and Article 35, "Freedom of communication". The USA ratified that in 1969.

    8. Re:I hear ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The case ended up before the US Supreme Court which ruled that the US Constitution gave Texas the authority to execute criminals and that the US Constitution trumps international laws, international courts & the President's foreign policy interest.

      Well, it does. I didn't elect the fucking UN, and if US politicians attempt to give the UN power that violates the US constitution or US sovereignty, then fuck 'em. All of em. It should start with those politicians who attempt to do such things in front of a court.

    9. Re:I hear ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would also require the international criminal court to have jurisdiction. The USA has never agreed to be subject to its rulings and has refused to abide by the Hague's suggestions in the past.

      Balls maybe, jurisdiction, not so much.
      They could wait until the people found guilty travel to another country and grab them there, or just US style kidnap them and sent them off to where ever they want.

      What, you think the USA has jurisdiction over the whole planet, and the international criminal court shouldnt?

      I cant wait for other countries to become powerful enough to challenge and call the US out for its continuing nonsence in the world. I'm young enough to hopefully see Amreicans dragged in front of the Hague, but even the thought of bankers and politicians hiding in the US being renditioned to face justice for thier wrongs is enough to make me smile. (A few drone strikes would make me chuckle too.)

    10. Re:I hear ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didnt give you veto power at the UN either, but you still have it.

      You dont elect your president either, but I guess your not big on details.
      No wonder you havent realised yet that your constitution is just words on a page, increasingly meaningless to your politicians and ruling class.
      ps. you dont vote for your supreme court either, 1 out of three aint bad though hey?

  20. Hypocrite States of America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FUCK the US. I'm storing popcorn so I can watch their Empire crumble in this lifetime, and Imma enjoy it.

    1. Re:Hypocrite States of America by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with large empires collapsing quickly rather than slowly is that those in the audience rarely get to live a life good enough to be able to enjoy it.

    2. Re:Hypocrite States of America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we're really lucky the replacement will be more militaristic, jingoistic, and xenophobic than the United States ever was. Be great to get back to the good old days of conquest and empire building. Really looking forward to depopulating and colonizing your country.

  21. Bla bla bla by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Until the rep/dem ruling party is voted out, all this chatter won't amount to hill of beans. American voters are responsible for this, but they all have their eyes set on Grand Theft iPhone...

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  22. NSA's fucking job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Excuse me, but the NSA's fucking job is spying. Every country spies. It's part of one of those things governments are supposed to do.

    1. Re:NSA's fucking job by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know, I've read this excuse a million times since Snowden did his thing, and I'm sick of it.

      The problem is it's an abuse of language. Saying "Every country spies. It's one of those things governments are supposed to do" is nothing but rhetorical sleight of hand. The word spy conjures up cartoons of men in pork-pie hats and long raincoats following some traitor in a car. The word is loaded with cold war imagery. It reminds people of a time when there was an "us" vs a "them" and spying was a very small scale and targeted activity done against "them" or, at very least, those of "us" working for "them".

      We need a new word to describe what's going on in todays world. Spying doesn't even come close to being the right word. How about totalitarian surveillance? But even that isn't strong enough to communicate the reality we are living in.

      In today's reality there's no us vs them. There's no good vs evil, capitalism vs communism. There's just bureaucrats and their power, exercised over their own people as readily as over foreigners.

      This is not only not "one of those things governments are supposed to do", it's often one of those things governments are expressly prohibited from doing by their own laws. And that's for good reasons!

      Please, don't flatter the NSA by calling them spies. They aren't spies at this point. They are real life equivalents of O'Brien, the dedicated agent of totalitarian control in 1984. O'Brien is a far darker and scarier character than anyone who could be described as a spy.

    2. Re:NSA's fucking job by oreaq · · Score: 2

      No. Governments are not supposed to commit millions of criminal acts in allied countries. And no, not every country does that.

    3. Re:NSA's fucking job by xvan · · Score: 1

      A clumsy job if yo ask me... Assume that everybody spies on everybody... Why would you give a contractor like Snowden, access to that sort of information?
      There was no justification other than "because we only care about ourselves". But you can't say that because economic consequences are greater that the tactical advantage.
      Do you really think that before Snowden, the tactical advantage taken by spying justified the risk of being caught spying?
      Some think that it didn't, that a target like Dilma would know that she is being wiretapped, that no sensible information would be transmitted through gmail, anyway.

      What about the risk of giving access to that information to some contractor because it was cheaper than doing it inhouse?
      Or you think that this sort of analysis of whom and how you should spy isn't part of the NSA job?
      Or you think that the US shouldn't give a shit about what a lesser country thinks about you?

    4. Re:NSA's fucking job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Best comment ever.

    5. Re:NSA's fucking job by EuclideanSilence · · Score: 1

      I agree with your sentiment.

      However, if people insist on calling what the NSA is doing spying, then I will point out that they are also spying on us, and that the penalty for spying on the US is the death penalty.

    6. Re:NSA's fucking job by melikamp · · Score: 1

      There are a bunch of words and idioms for what we have: total(itarian) surveillance, Big Brother, panopticon. I totally agree it's silly to call an activity "spying" when it cannot be concealed, and the target is everyone.

    7. Re:NSA's fucking job by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      The problem is that people were naive enough to think they could entrust their data to products and services provided by a foreign company, without the government to which that company is beholden getting their claws on it.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    8. Re:NSA's fucking job by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      Every country manipulates its currency for its own benefit.
      Every country coerces and silences disidents.
      Every country threatens legal action against political enemies.
      Every country lies about how a bill/law/policy is all about safety/savings/efficiency. "Think of the children!" When the reality is a grab for more power.

      By your reasoning these are just realities and every citizen of every country needs to just sit down and shut up. At what point is it ok to say that they've gone too far? Do they get to speak out only when the id number is being tattooed on their arm?

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    9. Re:NSA's fucking job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So can someone please send the marines in to shoot up this 'Star Trek' like place, shoot to kill. and don't forget the bodybags.

      Captcha for this message: Honor

      Because we all know the NSA has absolutely fuck all of that!

    10. Re:NSA's fucking job by JigJag · · Score: 1

      We need a new word to describe what's going on in today's world.

      I enjoyed the comment at http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4261215&cid=44947107 where TWiTfan called it "Corporationalism"

      --
      "The hallmark of humanity is the ability to move beyond sensory inputs" - Mary Helen Immordino-Yang
    11. Re:NSA's fucking job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your comment will get lost in the rabid anti-US sentiment around here lately. Because while everyone is busy being upset that the US got caught spying, all the other governments of the world are going "Whew, this takes attention off us for awhile now. See about setting up some of those taps like the NSA is doing, that's actually a good idea...."

      Typical human foolishness. Get outraged over the one thing that's in the limelight, and ignore all else. Smells like bread and circuses to me.

    12. Re:NSA's fucking job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, its not.

      Yes NSA can see everything you do... ONLINE.

      Just go offline. (aka go outside and have a fucking beer if you want privacy).

    13. Re:NSA's fucking job by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I notice that you are anonymous. Forgive me for suspecting that you are an astroturfer.

      If you want an anonymous comment to be taken seriously, you must provide a logical argument, rather than a false assertion.

      P.S.: Were it true, it being one's job to break the law is not a justification for doing so, or bank robbers would have get-out-of-jail-free cards.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    14. Re:NSA's fucking job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excuse me, but the NSA's fucking job is spying.

      You've got it backwards, son. The NSA's job is fucking — the Bill of Rights, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the citizens of the world, and anything else it can jam its e-cock into. As all of this fucking occurs without the victims' consent, the NSA is more akin to a rapist, and you their pipsqueak cheerleader, applauding the destruction of human rights, international relations, and the reversal of advancements made in the norms of human civility. Excuse you indeed.

  23. Hate to "burst your bubble", but... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The REAL "rulers" are the wealthy, & what keeps them the MOST wealthy? Heck - the MOST PROFITABLE INVESTMENT THERE IS: War! It's what the "Eisenhower Military Industrial Complex" THRIVES on... via YOUR TAXES!

    * You have something they need/want? They make YOU "the enemy" to justify going after that 'something' they want/need... for "freedom" (whose freedom & what kind? Financial FREEDOM for the war profiteers is what!).

    It's so damned obvious, they can't HIDE THAT anymore...

    APK

    P.S.=> This shit is just outright plain-jane insane, all of it... apk

    1. Re:Hate to "burst your bubble", but... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      A good HOSTS file will put an end to war.

    2. Re:Hate to "burst your bubble", but... apk by Entropius · · Score: 1

      pentagon.army.mil 0.0.0.0

    3. Re:Hate to "burst your bubble", but... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      topkek

    4. Re:Hate to "burst your bubble", but... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well apk, that's how the world works. It's powered by CYNICISM.

      "ignorance is bliss". Yeah, sounds shitty, but that maxime is required for survival if you have digged to deep.

      Remember how that greek guy got around the Sirens ? Wax in the ears.

  24. Oh please oh please yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brazil is gonna go build their own internet. And get the fuck off the one used by the rest of the world?
    Make it mandatory for your citizens to stay off the rest of the worlds internet too brazil!

    Oh please let this happen. Global douche levels online will drop so hard.

    Unfortunatly i think this is just more bullshit from a brazilian... Big empty talk from a country of douchebags.

  25. Virginal Brazil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure Brazil doesn't conduct any espionage on its neighbors . . .I'm sure it just takes them all at their word.

  26. Diplomatic fallout?!? by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Diplomatic fallout?!?

    "the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden"

    Seriously? The problem is that Snowden revealed the spying, rather than the fact the NSA was spying via a dragnet in the first place?

    Isn't this kind of like blaming the person who outs the pedophile for all the outrage against the pedophile?

    1. Re:Diplomatic fallout?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that the NSA was/is spying is the revelation by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. So, no?

    2. Re:Diplomatic fallout?!? by Guru80 · · Score: 2

      I think you are not comprehending what was intended. This summary isn't blaming Snowden, it is crediting him with revealing what was going on.

    3. Re:Diplomatic fallout?!? by tlambert · · Score: 1

      I think you are not comprehending what was intended. This summary isn't blaming Snowden, it is crediting him with revealing what was going on.

      The fallout isn't from the revelation, it's from the spying. It seems like an attempt to blame Snowden for the problems the NSA is having, rather than the activities of the NSA.

      To put this in terms which more people might understand: "I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!".

    4. Re:Diplomatic fallout?!? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      The fallout isn't from the revelation, it's from the spying.

      Without the revelations, would there have been any fallout from the spying? Perhaps "the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the spying revealed by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden" would have been a clearer statement of what was intended.

    5. Re:Diplomatic fallout?!? by tlambert · · Score: 1

      The fallout isn't from the revelation, it's from the spying.

      Without the revelations, would there have been any fallout from the spying? Perhaps "the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the spying revealed by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden" would have been a clearer statement of what was intended.

      Yes. That is a much, much better way of saying it.

  27. Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo by AHuxley · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The US has two main fears historically emerging from a Brazil like country:
    Exports outside the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar with countries like Japan, China - totally removing the need for any use of US currency.
    The formation of views such as a new http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement locking up strategic materials and demanding market value.
    The CIA and NSA never want the US to lose control of their vision of soft dollar loans. Long term the loans get repaid with interest or the sale of local assets back to US entities by emerging countries.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  28. Al Qaida is trying to organize more massacres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    across the USA, Europe, Africa, and countries in the Middle East. They are very, very good at keeping it quiet. However, to do it with the effect their leadership wants usually requires electronic communication. That's what the NSA and its European counterparts realize.

    1. Re:Al Qaida is trying to organize more massacres by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]. Oh, and off course you can totally counter such a threat by industrial espionage.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    2. Re:Al Qaida is trying to organize more massacres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as I can tell, this is the only post on the entire thread that even mentions Al Qaida or terrorism. You'd think the mods would present it for discussion.

      But no, they aren't interested in discussion here, they just want to see ranting on one side of the issue. As usual.

  29. Protesting too much... by mi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    accusing the NSA of violating international law by its indiscriminate collection of personal information

    Which particular law did the the lady have in mind?

    Spying on other countries is what all countries do — to the best of their abilities. Perhaps, Brazil's abilities aren't a match for those of the US — and not just in the field of spying. I can see, how the resulting jealousy — among politicians and ordinary citizens alike — can lead to some fiery speeches, but the audience better remember, there is nothing the US has done, that any other country wouldn't have, if only it were able to.

    Now, spying on one's own citizens — that's bad. But that's not a matter for international law, is it?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, but it's a matter of international douche-baggery and people getting tired of the US thinking themselves superior to the rest of the world.

      The rest of the world doesn't see it that way and doesn't give a shit.

    2. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I am from Brazil and I can say I don't give a flying fuck about NSA looking into my favorites redtube videos.
      Have fun doing it, whatever...

      That being said, I find it actually a good thing that Dilma is pissed off because even if we, the brazilian people, can't know all the shit that our government does at least you guys can and keep them worried as hell about what they do because someone in Washington DC knows what they do.

      By the way the only thing she can do is speak to a bunch of mother fuckers at the UN, nothing is going to change. Again, its a good thing, please spy on them as well. :)

    3. Re:Protesting too much... by mitzampt · · Score: 1

      Seriously? I give you seven to ten years. If you aren't feeling anything around the corner now, go on. Be superior.

      --
      uhm...
    4. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we have nukes, you don't.

    5. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We are superior.

      My grandparents remember when a certain country between Poland and France had the same idea. It didn't end well, for anyone.

    6. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We?

        Your government have nukes, but You do not... lol.

    7. Re:Protesting too much... by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the permission. But you might aslo beat your kids, or have a meth lab in your house. To be sure everyone is safe we'll need to install cameras in every room. If you're not doing anything wrong, you wont have any objectsion, right?

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    8. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You welcome my friend, whatever makes you happy.

      Just know that it will not avoid americans being blow up around the world. :)

    9. Re:Protesting too much... by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      /sarcasm....

      Never said it would. In fact I, as an American, understand and accept that being an American has, does, and will forever put me at a degree of risk. I prefer that level of risk and danger over that lie of "security" fed me by those who wish to control me.I value my freedom to protect myself in part through exercise of my privacy, and hold these far more dear than any dilusion that a faceless organization can prevent me coming to harm.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    10. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's akin to saying "if we don't kill them, they will surely kill us".

      You Americans need to get some decency and stop being on the warpath 100% of time.

    11. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny you mention this. I just read a great book "The Code Book", a history of cryptography and code breaking. After World War 1 everybody was in peace time, but it didn't stop Poland from making every attempt to intercept and decipher traffic from other countries. Doing so allowed them to make about a decade's worth of progress in cracking the German's Enigma device. They couldn't completely crack it by the time they were about to get run over by Hitler due to lack of resources, but they passed it along to Great Britain and it served as a great platform for Alan Turing and his men to finish the job.

      The point is, eavesdropping on other countries has gone on for literally over two millennium and nobody should suddenly get their tit in a wringer over it.

    12. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spying on other countries is what all countries do — to the best of their abilities.

      "We have always spied on other countries, surely we have made it legal by now?"

      Now, spying on one's own citizens — that's bad.

      "FOX News says it's in the constitution, it must be a universal truth."

      Pardon my sarcasm, I know it's not a popular form of humour in your banana republic.

    13. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      accusing the NSA of violating international law by its indiscriminate collection of personal information

      Which particular law did the the lady have in mind?

      Spying on other countries is what all countries do — to the best of their abilities. Perhaps, Brazil's abilities aren't a match for those of the US — and not just in the field of spying. I can see, how the resulting jealousy — among politicians and ordinary citizens alike — can lead to some fiery speeches, but the audience better remember, there is nothing the US has done, that any other country wouldn't have, if only it were able to.

      Now, spying on one's own citizens — that's bad. But that's not a matter for international law, is it?

      Why is spying on your own citizens any worse than spying on other countries citizens?
      Yea your constitution makes it illegal, but what makes it wrong?

      Quite clearly spying on their own citizens is what all countries do - to the best of their abilities. So it must be good right ?

      You shouldnt complain about the NSA spying on you, Your country is just the best, (American exceptionalism and all that) so of course you have the best spies too. Bending (breaking) the rules is what all countries do - to the best of their abilities also, so thats good too.

      Maybe one day people will realise that every one else does it is not really a good enough excuse once your age reaches double digits.

    14. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two things I'm not jealous about are American democracy and freedom. With 23 parties in congress (not one like China or two like US), we have no journalists arrested or being persecuted. There is no censorship in any part of the country (our army can read what's going on). Government crimes are being judged, and they are not war crimes. There are no patent trolls suing families to ridiculous amounts of money or threatening to take people out of the internet (that is now close to an inaliable right).
      Also, the Brazilian constitution states that we won't make war outside of our borders. Guess who's been out of wars for 200 years except to provide humanitarian help? We have no "terrorist" attacks since the dictatorship, and by terrorist I mean people who were brave to fight the military who made thousands disappear (maybe you can relate that to the 2nd ammendment).

      The universal declaration of human rights is the international law she was reffering to.

      Article 12: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

    15. Re:Protesting too much... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      What do you mean? Germany is doing GREAT. They are basically economically controlling the EU. Having their infrastructure destroyed turned out to be great, in the long term, because it was all rebuilt using all-new equipment, which gave them a big leg-up on everybody else, particularly the UK.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    16. Re:Protesting too much... by mi · · Score: 1

      "We have always spied on other countries, surely we have made it legal by now?"

      Ok, let's play... Please, quote the international treaty, of which the US is a signatory, which prevents countries from spying on foreigners.

      Put up or shut up, so to speak...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    17. Re:Protesting too much... by mi · · Score: 1

      Quite clearly spying on their own citizens is what all countries do - to the best of their abilities. So it must be good right?

      Brazilian President, in addition to denouncing the spying as evil, accused the US of violating international law.

      You seem to agree, so, please, name the treaty being violated.

      You shouldnt complain about the NSA spying on you, Your country is just the best

      Though I quite agree with the second statement, I don't see, how it relates to the first. Being able to complain freely about the government — with complaints being loud and substantial enough to affect changes in the government's behavior — is part of what makes our country the best, thank you very much.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    18. Re:Protesting too much... by mi · · Score: 0
      And yet, you remain dirt-poor, crime in the cities is staggering, and slipping back into dictatorship remains a very distinct possibility.

      Guess who's been out of wars for 200 years except to provide humanitarian help?

      Certainly not Brazil... And where/when you did wage war, whatever limits were placed on the engagement, where not by law or other mighty principles, but simply due to poverty.

      Finally, "to provide humanitarian help" is an exception, through which one can drive a truck. America's attack on Iraq, for example, was a humanitarian help to Kuwait and others, was not it?

      We have no "terrorist" attacks

      Because no self-respecting terrorist cares...

      Article 12: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

      This is, actually, a good response... I do wish, "correspondence" included the electronic kind, but, I'm sure, NSA would like to disagree. They'll also claim, there is nothing "arbitrary" in a search for terrorists.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    19. Re:Protesting too much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe she did, but nothing in my post says that I do, (or dont for that matter).

      You seem to have forgotten to explain to me why spying on your own citizens is worse?

      Are you simultaneously claiming your country is the most free and also the best at spying on you?

      Being able to complain freely about the government — with complaints being loud and substantial enough to affect changes in the government's behavior — is part of what makes our country the best, thank you very much.

      True for suitably small values of loud and substantial.
      If your complaints are loud enough,I hope for your sake you have a permit and you're standing in an approved "free speach zone"

    20. Re:Protesting too much... by graphius · · Score: 1

      Oh for mod points...

  30. Put the shoe on the other foot by jbrown.za · · Score: 2

    When looking at contracts, in many cases a good test of fairness is to swap the names on the contracts and see if both parties are still happy. I think this test would work well here as well:

    United States president, Barack Obama, has launched a blistering attack on Brazilian espionage at the UN general assembly, accusing the ABIN of violating international law by its indiscriminate collection of personal information of US citizens and economic espionage targeted on the country's strategic industries.

    Sounds pretty reasonable to me

  31. President of Brazil doesn't understand how it work by BitZtream · · Score: 1

    Okay, you guys don't get this Internet thing. The Internet is a collection of private and public networks all connected together in a massive mesh.

    You already own your own infrastructure. You already have your own Internet. If the US is spying on you in your own country, its because you're letting them by using US services and providing data to the NSA yourself. If your country laid a pipe to the US data centers for back feeding that data, its most certainly YOUR problem. There is absolutely no dependency on the US that you don't create yourself. The only possibly one you have is for .com/net/org/edu ... and thats already solved by .... .br and the fact that the US doesn't actually control all the root zone servers for DNS.

    Drop routes containing AS numbers assigned to US companies, find the various AS numbers used by spy agencies located outside the US and drop those routes as well. Turn off any direct connections to the US. Problem solved. This isn't even a little bit difficult. Hell, I shut off countries selectively on a regular basis within my own Internet within my organizations departments. (Looking at you China), its trivial at the border routers.

    This 'speech' is a posturing crock of shit. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if this is just like all the countries in the middle east that tell us how much we suck for doing things like Afghanistan and Iraq, or our treatment of North Korea, Syria and Iran publicly ... while privately begging us to blow those countries off the face of the Earth for them.

    And whats really sad, at the time I'm writing this, it appears no one on slashdot understands how the Internet works either as all the posts seem to think that the US controls networks in other countries through some sort of magic.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  32. Good luck America ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because the rest of the world is getting tired of putting up with your shit.

    Your security doesn't trump our sovereignty.

    1. Re:Good luck America ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as if this has anything to do with security

      the rest of the world can get as tired of our shit as it wants; everyone knows that nobody has the balls to stand up to us in any meaningful way

    2. Re:Good luck America ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as if this has anything to do with security

      the rest of the world can get as tired of our shit as it wants; everyone knows that nobody has the balls to stand up to us in any meaningful way

      Thank goodness you're here to maintain order. "Might is Right" is the way the animal kingdom does it, must be God's way then.

      Murrrrica, fuck yeah.

  33. Funny how.. by darrellg1 · · Score: 1

    there wasn't one major headline about this from a major US news source. Instead it was all about Iran. Our news media sucks.

    1. Re:Funny how.. by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      This is on the top of the NYTimes homepage as I write this comment (though I will admit it was the only major US news agency I found that had anything on their homepage about it)

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    2. Re:Funny how.. by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      Nor about what said any of the other presidents. Maybe there was a mention like "oh, and in other news, there was some kind of meeting in the UN".

      Remember, with media control not only comes what comes to light, but also what versions come. How you know how manipulated where the news that finally came to light? Which version of the truth? Any strong opinion you have from news coming from mass media is that way because they wanted that you have it exactly that way. Siria, Iran, terrorism in Kenia, what happens in other countries, all is shaped so you follow their programs. Forget about democracy US. Voting what you are told to vote is not freedom.

  34. The NSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is probably run by the same people that run the central bank - The Goldman Sachs, Meryl Lynch et. al. cartel hellbent on looting and pillaging the west to inflate the value of China who they invest everything in it seems these days. I guess they want people who are kind of racist against white people or non han, north east Asian generally to rule the world. It's the kind of anti-logic anti-morality one should indeed expect from a psychopath as these people apparently are.
    Bye my kin sob sob. my victim complex. I can't help feeling it's some kind of master stroke by the East - get control of Americas's private banks, find a way to privatise the federal reserve, and then give themselves all the bounty. Or maybe Japan never intended to win WW II. They just wanted to galvanise a good victim complex to keep their people fighting and insecure of the knowledge of their supremacy so in the end they would be the only viable part of the world, responsibly run. It matters not - the West (most of her people) get boned whatever way u look at it. Also, that's one of the smartest thing a country could do if it got the upper hand over another. Convince its own people to smile and bow to the others and pretend they're inferior. All the while the other side is emboldened in the false belief that they won something and become increasingly lazy, and ignorant of whats going on around them. Then again, I sometimes feel that because I have to type everything with an s now instead of a z like organisation vs organization that British English and the crown took back full control of America. It's 'an' hospital now not a hospital. Or maybe Britain in turn got controlled by China. I have no idea, but it's certainly crazy and obfuscated enough so that I'll never truly understand. All I know is that the big buzz word with these people (at least was) is China and the century of China. So who runs China - can't help but feel China is the next America - an international cartel posing as a country...

    1. Re:The NSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe Japan never intended to win WW II. They just wanted to galvanise a good victim complex to keep their people fighting and insecure of the knowledge of their supremacy so in the end they would be the only viable part of the world, responsibly run.

      Responsibly run ?

      Yeah, that's why they allowed the power plant at Fukushima to be built as
      it was.

      Do us all a favor and go play with your inflatable doll or your dog or something,
      because you have not even the slightest grasp on reality.

  35. Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo by xvan · · Score: 1

    I don't see anybody calling the Syrian insurgency "terrorists", or not calling North Korea "terrorist".
    You can't play the terrorist card whenever 'X' attacks 'Y', and 'X' isn't part of a government... 'terrorism' it has a very specific definition.

    The funny thing is that in these latitudes, we take the reverse point of view, the de facto governments are being judged for terrorism or what they did to combat that insurgences... governments that were not only allies, but also were promoted by the US.

  36. Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obama: Be cool with this and we'll provide you with enough data to stay in office as long as you like. If you want a career change, we can help you with investment information too.
    Dilma: Sounds good. Give me a couple of months to gracefully tie up the rhetoric.
    Obama: Sure thing.

  37. Why whine? by luttapi · · Score: 1

    It makes no sense for the Brazilians or anyone else to go on whining about this. People who were too stupid to protect their own data got spied upon, thats all. If anything, it means that the US of 4'n A is an enemy of the rest of the world and should be treated as such.

  38. Re:President of Brazil doesn't understand how it w by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not as easy as removing routes on the technical level when so many economic services rely on it, it's about removing that that economic dependency, that's a lot more difficult.

  39. Having been in Brazil, I can tell you she's a liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to live there until Lula came into power. Trust me, the Brazilian govt is watching you AND is doing international espionage. Oh, and maybe they can get something other than the same 4 cars doing surveillance on the US consulate in Recife.

  40. OMG you're right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I just checked http://edition.cnn.com/ and on the left hand side under the header "U.N. Assembly", the following topics are listed: (15:00 UTC)
    • Rouhani: I bring peace and friendship
    • Iran: no place for nuclear weapons
    • LIVE: watch U.N. general assembly
    • Iran ready to make nuke deal?
    • Israel: Iran using smokescreen
    • Did sanctions work?
    • UNGA: 5 things to look for

    Frankly, I find this disturbing that her speech was not mentioned AT ALL. Only Iran and Israel. Nothing to see here folks, move along now. Look the other way.

  41. Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo by Monsuco · · Score: 1

    I don't see anybody calling the Syrian insurgency "terrorists"

    I certainly do.

  42. Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo by morcego · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Right now, Brazil is the world leader in deep sea oil exploration/extraction (way, WAY ahead of any other). Also, it has the most successful alternative fuel program in the world (most successful by any measure you chose, be it price, adoption, w/e). Those two things alone paint a big target mark in the country's back, and make it a prime target for espionage. The USA tried to buy those technologies in the past, and was mostly refused, if I recall correctly.

    Some people will say that Brazil once had a nuke program. Who cares? These fuel technologies are a bigger threat to the USA than any patched up nukes would be, by the simple fact Brazil is using them, and they are making a difference. See all the wars that are fought because of oil, and all the anti-ethanol lobbing always going on in the US.

    --
    morcego
  43. Two party system by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

    There are only two parties, the sold, and the for sale.

  44. Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suspect its mostly the petrodollar issue. Because lets face it; the US Economy is largely farcical.

    If a major non-dollar international trade circuit developed, the following drop in dollar demand would probably be so steep there is nothing the FED could do to control inflation.

    Stands to bring down the entire house of cards.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  45. Re:President of Brazil doesn't understand how it w by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    throw away all the US routers/switches with backdoors, you say?
    then huwaei to china all the way?
    wtf?

  46. Just for show... by ezonme · · Score: 0

    She is turning Brazil into a communist state along with her partisans. Espionage (and political prosecution) is a thing her party does on a regular basis. They are taking over Brazil, and corruption is an all time high. This speech is just the "fight the evil empire" shit

  47. Not funny by phorm · · Score: 2

    It's only funny if you consider it to be untruthful/unlikely hyperbole. Unfortunately, the truth is that the U.S. *HAS* done just this on quite a number of occasions, and it's not so unlikely.

  48. A better political system by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

    And yet there is a better political system: that of Bugarup.

    Government officials in Bugarup are elected by the people and then put into prison to save time.

    One can only hope the current system evolves into that.

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
  49. Redirect the rage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think she (Dilma) is doing anything right. It's too naive to think Brazilian government doesn't know that NSA (or MI5, or KGB or ...) spies on them or on anyone else. The fact that common people from Brazil went to streets to protest and are still in protest on some places, makes need of a scapegoat or a "common enemy" of the state and the people.

    So they redirect the hate of Brazilian government to US government. Everybody loves to hate the US government.

    And next year Brasil got elections. And with this bombshell the game of thrones in Brazil is running right now.

  50. Brazil Islamic terrorism connection by TheSync · · Score: 0

    Interesting article from 2011 that claims: 21 men linked to Islamic extremist groups including al-Qaeda, have been using Brazil for various purposes including controlling inflows of money and planning attacks..

    1. Re:Brazil Islamic terrorism connection by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      so what, you could say that about people on any country on earth.

      Furthermore, Obama himself is such a person, and his administration. On 9/11 anniversary, two weeks ago, they announced arming Syrian rebels which include Al Qaeda and affiliates. Those groups have been going into Christian towns and slaughtering people, even beheading women and babies. The biggest terrorists on earth are in Washington D.C.

    2. Re:Brazil Islamic terrorism connection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Completely agree, mod this up.

      The sooner the shoe is on the other foot the better, then Americans can see why everyone thinks they are dicks.

      Couple of drone strikes in DC, to stop the Al Qaeda afiliated regime from supplying arms to terrorists in Syria.

      Im sure all the countries whoes governments were overthrown (or destabilised) by the CIA would love to send a few drones over Virginia.

      How the mighty have fallen - isnt an idiom for no reason, your turn will come :)

  51. Not vs. "lobbyists"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts helps vs. what WE deal in (online threats) but not vs. "legal bribery"/lobbyists (the MAIN problem!) - which is their MAIN tool to gain not money but the TRUE GOAL: Power & Control!

    "Puppet Politicians" (best money can REALLY buy) won't stop it as it makes them RICH via "the holy dollar" - Sociopath megalomaniacs 'crave' it like drug fiends due to qualities other humans innately possess that they lack!

    (Yes.it's truly their "fix" & they aren't doing a GOOD JOB of it thinking they're smart enough to overturn lessons history yields since time immemorial in that it's easy to win a battle but not a war & occupations ALWAYS fail! That's a person's home not just a financial asset & they'll go to the ground for it (or 6 ft. under) for their families! The 'controllers' + their "I got mine" pattern of thought = short term stupid!).

    ---

    On your sarcasm: As-per-my-usual? You're MORE THAN WELCOME to disprove my points on custom hosts files (enumerated in the download link for it):

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74

    (Benefits hosts files provide on numerous levels for speed, security, reliability, & anonymity are in the link above)

    ---

    Especially as to their value to end users in added speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity (to an extent on the latter).

    ---

    * Good luck: You'll need it, as it's impossible to do!

    (You know it, I know it, like anyone else reading w/ 1/2 a brain - TRUTH's that way & dusts trolls like YOU every time).

    APK

    P.S.=> In any event, "Back on Track" (our subject which you deviated from troll): When common-sense starts failing in folks, especially due to a 'virus of the spirit' called greed when MONEY BECOMES YOUR GOD? What's happening out there today is what you get - outright madness & lunacy + short-term thinking!

    ... apk

    1. Re:Not vs. "lobbyists"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, for fuck's sake, I was really starting to enjoy Slashdot without you around.

      Now you're back with a vengeance and as brainless as ever.

    2. Re:Not vs. "lobbyists"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a cowardly little ac troll punk and you know it. We all do.

  52. Re:Good FTFY by zlives · · Score: 1

    "Many Can't afford mass surveillance programs"
    but yeah its bad :)

  53. Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo by Fjandr · · Score: 1

    Exactly. There are really no realistic military threats to the US. The real threats are economic, and the US is becoming increasingly likely to fall under those economic threats due to the outsourcing of pretty much everything but services which absolutely require domestic workers.

  54. Stop playing their game. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Develop alternative communications systems, use encryption settings that will make it more difficult for them to intercept your communications, and lastly: emigrate.

    Governments only matter when they have people to control. If the people go away the government will whither and die.

    Sadly the other responses require the concerted efforts of the majority of citizenry and if there's one thing that's been predominantly obvious for a long time, it's that the majority don't care enough to affect change.

    It's depressing, but most people would rather be slaves kept in nice cages and told they're free, than actually free with only what they or their fellows can build for themselves and seeing the world as it actually is.

    How apt, the captcha was 'Nobility'

  55. Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo by Fjandr · · Score: 1

    "Terrorism" has been turned into a convenient buzzword. It's only applied to those the person using it disagrees with. The Syrian insurgency most certainly does have terrorist aspects. The American Revolution had terrorist aspects as well. If I were fighting as an insurgent, you can bet your ass I'd target civilian installations supportive of the regime against which I was fighting. It's eminently practical on a strategic level, and is one of the most effective tactics in a lop-sided conflict.

  56. Agreed, it is (unfortunately)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's powered by basic needs (of the few elites, not the majority) in that they "need THEIR 'heroin'" & folks? That 'heroin' = Money, & thus, power + control = to satisfy their 'virus of the spirit' personal mental afflictions (in greed)... NO different, than a junkie!

    Why? Imo, pretty obvious: Well - to feel like a "real man" since they lack OTHER "attributes" between their legs imo! Yes to "get pussy" since face it - Freud had SOME things, right, & that is a HUGE motivator to males (& it is STILL a "man's world")!

    So - What gave THAT away to me, recently, via "projection"?

    The former NSA head (Hayden), iirc, who called us "nerds/geeks" folks that "haven't had the company of the opposite sex in 5 or more years"... dunce that he is giving it away like that - Man, I would seriously BET I've had more "tail" than he has his ENTIRE LIFE 10x over (without 'buying it' as I bet he probably had to, lol), when I was only in my 20's... he's a fool for even *thinking* thus on his part, generalizing way, Way, WAY too much!

    ---

    See - I've been on this planet/in this existence for 1/2 a century now, & it's shit like this that makes me say this (& I've said it before online MANY times):

    "DOGS ARE BETTER PEOPLE, THAN PEOPLE!"

    (By far, since @ least they're DIRECT & HONEST about what they want, & don't *try* to "politically correct mask it" either, & when they use force? It's to exist or procreate, usually, only!).

    ---

    * It makes me ashamed to be a part of the same species as the power hungry war mongering selfish profiteers is all... with their obviously self-centered short-term only "I got mine, fuck you all" mentalities!

    (I will agree with you on another point: "ignorance IS bliss", until they ruin it all that is... I was a LOT happier person BEFORE I began to really, Really, REALLY look @ things in the world today, that, is certain - it all seriously has utterly DISGUSTED me!).

    APK

    P.S.=> This ALL comes @ the expense of everyone else (& NOT by decent means, but instead, bullshit crookery, & 1/2 truths spread by the media they own!)!

    So, in the final analysis: Are they doing a "good job" as "masters of the universe"?

    Hell no!

    Since ALL I HAVE TO DO, is say "Look @ the results, worldwide", since you CAN'T HAVE a good economic system with 90% of the wealth in the hands of only 1% of us (money doesn't flow like it should - it's like running your car's engine, with NO OIL - sure, it'll run for a bit, then seize & die)...

    ... apkb

    1. Re:Agreed, it is (unfortunately)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a FUCKING IDIOT and need to die in a fire.

    2. Re:Agreed, it is (unfortunately)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a cowardly little punk and you know it. We do.

  57. Either share the NSA technology with us... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or else we build our own!

  58. Nobel committee should revoke Obama's prize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What I say is true, though I know you twerps who frequent
    this site will most likely mod me down in a pathetic attempt
    at censorship, but what you cockgobblers don't understand
    is that you cannot suppress the TRUTH.

    Obama is a murderer by use of drones, and has killed people who
    are nowhere near the US.

    Obama has destabilized the world by allowing the NSA surveillance to
    continue unchecked.

    Obama has attempted ( but didn't succeed, LOL )
    to prosecute Assange, a man who has not committed any crimes against
    the US.

    Obama is a MASSIVE failure and an embarrassment to the US.

    And certainly anyone with a fundamental understanding of geopolitics
    understands that Obama has made the world a more dangerous place
    during his tenure.

  59. Brazil vs. The US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is nothing friendly about Brazil to the US. Brazil is the up and coming economic power in South America, and are only held back by the dominant position the US maintains on the Western hemisphere. Brazil has been seeking ways to break free and become the dominant power in the region, and this is just another item in the long list of things they are doing to strengthen their position as the dominant economic power in South America, and workign towards bringing other latin american nations into their orbit and away from US dominance.

    Brazil is a great country, the people are awesome, and it's worth visiting. But the governments are not friendly to each other, they are competitors.

  60. Other way around... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "pentagon.army.mil 0.0.0.0" - by Entropius (188861) on Wednesday September 25, 2013 @11:29AM (#44948745)

    You've got it backwards!

    0.0.0.0 pentagon.army.mil

    (THAT is the CORRECT format for hosts files internal line record items!)

    * :)

    ---

    Personally though (& back on the REAL subject here)?

    I have *NOTHING* against MOST military OR NSA etc. gov't. personnel - since MOST hired on just to make a living (not even Hayden, former NSA head I noted here http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4261215&cid=44950725 for what I cited there for his STUPID projecting comments he directed OUR way as "geeks/nerds" etc.), but I DO against those who "hide behind the curtain", Wizard-of-Oz style (ala "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain") taking orders from those (the wealthy 1% controllers) who are not only screwing US as their tax-paying constituency, but themselves too in the end.

    APK

    P.S.=> So much for our TRUE "fearless leaders" (who aren't soldiers, or even politicians, but those giving THEM the orders, via lobbyists) in the war profiteer "masters of the universe" they *THINK* they are, well f-that - their results, suck - especially since they do NOTHING MORE than using those military folks like pawns, nothing more (they die, the 1% war-profiteers profit even MORE)...

    ... apk

    1. Re:Other way around... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your posts would be easier and less fatiguing to read if you quite using bold, caps lock, and false-endings followed by (often multiple) postscripts. I (and perhaps others) would thus be more likely to actually read them without giving up due to headache and/or eye pain.

    2. Re:Other way around... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try being on topic troll. Learn to read also you dyslexic troll. You'd learn something instead of being a trolling punk as you've been in your anonymous replies here.

  61. Re:President of Brazil doesn't understand how it w by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    Drop routes containing AS numbers assigned to US companies

    Three problems with that.

    1: Just because the AS number isn't assigned to a US company doesn't mean that the cable route doesn't go through the US.
    2: You will most likely loose access to a large part of the internet (and not just the US either) because afaict most providers will only advertise to you their "best" route to a place and in many cases the "best" route will go via the US.
    3: Even if you are ok with all of that the return traffic to you could still come via the US.

    To minimise the ammount of your traffic that goes through the US you first have to build the routes that don't go via the US (look at an undersea cable map sometime, notice anything about south america?). Then you have to make sure those routes are used in preference.

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  62. Feudalism by NewYork · · Score: 1

    In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes.