Valve Announces Hardware Beta Test For 'Steam Machine'

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Valve Announces Hardware Beta Test For 'Steam Machine'

Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday September 25, 2013 @05:15AM from the get-it-while-it's-hot dept.

Valve's second major living-room-gaming announcement landed today: they have produced a prototype model of their first "Steam Machine." They've made 300 units, and they'll be sending the machines to users in a very limited beta test. Valve hastens to add that this device isn't the only Steam-focused hardware: "Entertainment is not a one-size-fits-all world. We want you to be able to choose the hardware that makes sense for you, so we are working with multiple partners to bring a variety of Steam gaming machines to market during 2014, all of them running SteamOS." They haven't released specs, but they guaranteed the prototypes will ship this year. They explicitly permit using it in any way — swapping parts, changing the OS, installing any software, etc. "The specific machine we're testing is designed for users who want the most control possible over their hardware. Other boxes will optimize for size, price, quietness, or other factors."

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First! by SgtClueLs · 2013-09-25 05:19 · Score: 1, Insightful

Want.
1. Re:First! by TWiTfan · 2013-09-25 06:38 · Score: 1
  
  So you've produced a prototype post, that may move into beta at an unspecified date, and may possibly make it to production at some time in the future?
  
  --
  The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
2. Re:First! by Molochi · 2013-09-25 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  I plan on giving SteamOS a go on my HTPC, which is basically just an old workstation laptop in a dock. However it has an old crusty ATi X1600 256MB on the mobo, and that has kept it stuck as a WinXP-Pro machine all these years. I don't expect SteamOS to support the card's legacy Linux drivers anybetter than the other distros do...
  
  --
  "The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
An open system by crashcy · 2013-09-25 05:20 · Score: 4, Informative

From the Questions section, they say you can hack it as you like, change the OS, change the hardware, and that the SteamOS source code will be available.
1. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 05:26 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Yea a totally open system that lets you shovel money into Valve's DRM. Good times, good times...
2. Re:An open system by jedidiah · 2013-09-25 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  I can already do that now. Just run Steam on the same kind of hardware that this thing is likely to be built with.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
3. Re:An open system by Wookact · 2013-09-25 05:30 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  This argument holds no water. Steam's DRM has not cause anyone I know any issues playing their games. In fact they have even loosened control even more to allow you to share your games.
  
  I only hate DRM that keeps me from what I paid for. Steam's DRM has not done any such thing. If you want to complain about DRM, please target GFWL, Ubisoft, and EA.
4. Re:An open system by crashcy · 2013-09-25 05:36 · Score: 2
  
  This is how I feel. I hate intrusive DRM. And I'm not a person that bitches about it and then shovels money at the companies that screw over their customers. I have not bought Diablo 3, SimCity, any Ubisoft game, any GFWL game, or any other (non-multiplayer) game that requires 100% online. But I have no trouble with Steam, because it has never once caused me any inconvenience. I have not been without internet for more than a day in the past decade, so it's once-a-week check-in isn't an issue for me.
  I guess I'd like the ability to resell games, but not really, cause I never sold my old boxed games. I never know when the mood will strike to play something five years later.
5. Re:An open system by houstonbofh · 2013-09-25 05:43 · Score: 2
  
  Of all the DRM out there, Steam is both the least intrusive, and the best run. Gabe has done a very good job of keeping the DRM out of your way. Yes, it is a software rental (with very long terms) but is rental always bad? I rent cars and hotel rooms too...
6. Re:An open system by cervesaebraciator · 2013-09-25 05:44 · Score: 2
  
  Does that mean this could be the Year of the Linux Set-top?
7. Re:An open system by houstonbofh · 2013-09-25 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  From what I can see, they WANT folks to hack it. They see the value in an active community hacking the box. (Unlike Sony) This feels so strange... :)
8. Re:An open system by interkin3tic · 2013-09-25 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  As opposed to an open system that does NOT allow you to buy games through steam? It sounds like you'll be able to buy things through other sytems, say Origin, GOG, et cetera. You can put games you've bought through other services into steam, and they say you can do whatever you want with them. So you have no cause to think that it will be locked into steam.
  
  Also, news flash, most people are not theologically opposed to DRM! Most people accept DRM if it doesn't cause problems most of the time! If you have problems with Steam's specific DRM, that's one thing, but if it's simply "STEAM IS DRM THEREFORE STEAM IS AN ABOMINATION BEFORE GOD!" then you are a moron, and I'm happy that you're missing out on so many games.
9. Re:An open system by crashcy · 2013-09-25 05:54 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Valve has a long history of finding value in community creations. Most of their biggest games started out as mods. So it makes sense that they would want to keep up this concept of seeing what the users can come up with.
10. Re: An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 05:58 · Score: 0
  
  LOL. If you knew how steam worked you'd find occurrences of DRM layered on top of more DRM. If anyone believes this nonsense hype then let me remind you that you are living in a world of fantasy and make believe. this isn't the world of narnia where you can pay with broken dreams.
11. Re: An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:00 · Score: 0
  
  it's not intrusive compared to what? all DRM is intrusive.
12. Re:An open system by geekoid · 2013-09-25 06:02 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It keeps you from reselling what you paid for.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
13. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:03 · Score: 0
  
  For those who haven't actually looked into Steam's DRM, I suggest you look it up for yourself. It's easy to bash all DRM everywhere, but the fact of the matter is that Steam offers DRM solutions, but does not have one single DRM solution for everything that is released through Steam. It's up to the developers/publishers that put games on Steam to pick how strict the DRM system is, and it's essentially a sliding scale from 'no DRM' to 'can only be installed on a set number of machines DRM'.
  At the same time, Steam and Valve are very supportive of instances where things go wrong and you need to recover one of your installs. Sometimes HDDs fail, and when that happens you'll be losing 1 install on anything that has a limited number of allowed installs.
  Also, Steam allows you to play offline, unless the game you're playing requires online capability.
  It really is a good compromise between giving customers what they pay for, and helping prevent piracy.
14. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:07 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  And allows them to sell you copies of once AAA games for sub-$10.
15. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:07 · Score: 0
  
  I only hate DRM that keeps me from what I paid for. Steam's DRM has not done any such thing.
  Steam is, if you must have DRM, one of the less intrusive. And it is great that it hasn't interfered with YOU, and probably even most people for that matter.
  However, I work in a remote location and stay there for 3 to 4 weeks at a time. In my off-shift time, I game. Little else to do until I go home. (I do far more gaming there than at home.)
  Offline mode works for the most part, but it has given me trouble in the past. It has required me to get back online to get into offline mode again. And then I am screwed. No Steam games for the remainder of my time at work, sometimes weeks. Worse, in the winter, I am sometimes not able to work due to weather, so I need to have something to occupy my time for the entire day! Even when Steam works fine, I am always in fear that something will go wrong and I will be stuck.
  I do bring some non-Steam games to be on the safe side. Any game requiring the internet to play does not get played by me. I buy far fewer games these days because of that crap.
16. Re:An open system by dj245 · 2013-09-25 06:12 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It keeps you from reselling what you paid for.
  It also allows me to download the game any number of times, long after I would have lost a disk or lost a CD-check key. They also have huge sales on AAA games with discounts you generally will not find in retail stores. Steam has advantages and disadvantages. For a lot of people the disadvantages are not important.
  
  Gamestop gives pennies on the dollar and I can't be bothered to sell used goods $10 at a time on Craigslist, including fielding emails and calls, arranging to meet the person, haggling, etc. If you sell used games on Ebay, you'll have nothing left after fees and shipping. For some people that much hassle for $10 might be worth it, but for a lot of people it is not.
  
  --
  Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
17. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:15 · Score: 0
  
  Ebay and Craigslist let you do this too. Amazing!
18. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  It suddenly occurs to me that I've never re-sold a game before. Maybe I should look into this Steam thing.
19. Re: An open system by guru42101 · 2013-09-25 06:23 · Score: 2
  
  I have seen this, but that is generally the developer's choice, not Valve's. For example the Steam version of BioShock 2 has an additional layer of GFWL. Ubisoft and EA games tend to have their standard DRM as well. The actual Steam DRM is painless.
20. Re:An open system by Cwix · 2013-09-25 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  I've never wanted to resell my games. I actually think people that do are a little bit odd, but you may feel free to purchase the disc version from your local box store or Amazon. You can then resell that one. I will continue to snap up 6 month old games for 75% off through Steam though.
  
  --
  You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
21. Re:An open system by Cwix · 2013-09-25 06:30 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  And if they ship you a damaged install disc, or a cd key that they have released online so it has been marked as pirated. I'll stick to Steam. I realize there are downsides, but from my POV the upsides outweigh them.
  
  --
  You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
22. Re:An open system by B1oodAnge1 · 2013-09-25 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  Technically, I suppose I didn't buy the game, I just bought the right to download it and play it on any computer I want without ever needing to find or fix a disc.
  Not saying it isn't a trade off, I would love to be able to resell my games, however, for me and many hundreds of thousands of gamers it is a system that adds value rather than subtracting it like every other DRM system out there.
  
  --
  RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
23. Re:An open system by B1oodAnge1 · 2013-09-25 06:44 · Score: 2
  
  That was 1999, when the TiVo came out.
  
  --
  RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
24. Re:An open system by vux984 · 2013-09-25 07:09 · Score: 1
  
  No. The disc version of a steam game is little more than a steam key and a blob to save you some downloading time.
  It is no more resellable than buying it on steam.
25. Re:An open system by TWiTfan · 2013-09-25 07:09 · Score: 1
  
  I'm going to hack mine to allow permanent offline play of my games, without it ever needing to check in with the Valve server gain. Gabe says its okay, right?
  
  --
  The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
26. Re:An open system by slaker · 2013-09-25 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  Steam has an offline mode, but games can only be accessed if you at least occasionally authenticate with Steam. How often is occasionally? Well, in my mind, any number of times more than "the day that the game was purchased" is too many, but I know that if someone's internet connection is down and they haven't authenticated with the Steam client in the last couple months, games won't start.
  As far as I can tell, "Offline Model" just stops all the non-authentication aspects of the Steam client, like the built-in chat service, but games that need to authenticate still need to do so occasionally. The last time I gave Steam a chance, I tried to play Dragon Age: Origins while my internet connection was down and found that despite the fact that I was "offline" and had logged in to the game client sometime before I lost my internet connection, the game wouldn't load.
  And that was the point where I said fuck it, I'll just buy everything else from GoG or get it from Pirate Release groups.
  
  --
  -- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
27. Re:An open system by StrangeBrew · 2013-09-25 07:36 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  "It keeps you from reselling what you paid for." No it doesn't. I buy games from Steam and Humble Bundle, incredibly cheap, with the full knowledge I won't be able to re-sell them. This doesn't bother me because I fully understand that I'm getting EXACTLY what I paid for: a single owner game for the price of a beer, or at most a pitcher of beer, at the bar. Now if I were stupid enough to spend 60 bucks on a brand new game through Steam I'd be incredibly pissed with myself... but not with Steam for their DRM policies.
28. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 07:49 · Score: 0
  
  Note to get around this you could always register a new steam account for games you might later want to re-sell, and then just sell the login information.
  However, to me this loophole obviously only exists because there's nothing Valve can do about it yet, not until they force you to tie a phone number to the account or something. I still think Steam is an evil trojan horse piece of shit that will turn on all those legions of pathetic fanboys once market dominance is achieved.
29. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 08:04 · Score: 0
  
  Steam won't let you play bought/rented games simultaneously. Not everyone is a dweeb living alone.
30. Re: An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 08:09 · Score: 0
  
  Whether DRM is bad or not depends not on how much there is, but on how it affects non-pirate users. Steam games with only Steam's DRM are fine, because 99% of the time, there's no effect to the user.
31. Re:An open system by uCallHimDrJ0NES · 2013-09-25 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  I lost 90 minutes of my life while my wife and baby had just returned from a week-long absence due to a false positive intrusion notice from Steamguard advising me to reset my ISP's SMTP password immediately, saying my SMTP password had been hacked. This is the most stressful event DRM has ever produced for me. DRM sucks. This includes Steam. I love Valve's games as much as anybody else, but let's be clear about what sucks and what doesn't. That said, I still use Steam and wish Valve luck with SteamOS. But given a choice, I always go DRM-free.
  
  --
  Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
32. Re:An open system by Pluvius · 2013-09-25 08:14 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  No, the very nature of the PC ecosystem keeps you from reselling what you paid for. Bootlegging PC games has been trivial for well over a decade even if you're only looking at optical-disc-based games. There's also the fact that you could never trust any used game with both a multiplayer component and a CD key (because how do you know the original owner isn't still using the key?) Those trust issues (not to mention the ease of piracy) made the PC used-game market essentially nonviable for years before Steam came out, and would continue to do so if Steam didn't exist. Especially since the publishers that are currently using Steam to lock down their games would continue to do so through similar methods.
  Rob
33. Re: An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 08:21 · Score: 0
  
  Learn to English, you dumbo.
  Of all the DRM out there
34. Re:An open system by tlhIngan · 2013-09-25 08:34 · Score: 2
  
  From the Questions section, they say you can hack it as you like, change the OS, change the hardware, and that the SteamOS source code will be available.
  And that's something you can do with PCs today.
  But very few people care to upgrade their PCs - they just buy new ones because upgrading is just an annoyance.
  So unless the steam box is supposed to appeal to hardcore PC gamers who basically build their own PCs, regular buyers wanting a console experience would just say "screw it".
  They want a box that sits in the living room and they don't need to touch it. They don't have to bother - they insert the disc and play the game. With the steam box, what's going to happen when your hareware's inadequate? The answer of "Buy this piece of hardware to upgrade your box" would go over like a lead balloon - you have to spend MORE money?! (Meanwhile, PS4 and Xbox One owners are playing it happily and "just as well" for the most part). Or you'll get complaints that "Steambox runs game poorly - buy PS4 or Xbox version instead".
  Openness is great, but you also have to understand WHY people moved to consoles. PC gaming isn't dead, but it's not as big as it once was once console started getting "good enough" that the games weren't just a shadow of what the PC version could attain.
  And now you have to do upgrades of hardware?
35. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 09:08 · Score: 0
  
  "Jesus Fucking Christ!" is what I yelled as I uninstalled the miserable fucking steam client for the second time. The first time around was due to nonstop crashing. The addresses were inside the steam client, and getting bioshock to run for more than 5 minutes was hopeless. I had the physical disc, I had installed off the physical disc, I was running in offline mode, so WTF? WTF was that the steam client sucks, the only purpose for any Internet connection for a single player game where you've got the disc in the machine is DRM, and being forced to use it sucks.
  My wife and I use different accounts for a lot of different things. She doesn't hate steam quite as much as I do, though she did get pretty pissed off when steam forced a skyrim update on her and blew away a huge collection of mods, setting up a completely different mods directory for no apparent reason. She burned out on it and stopped playing, so I thought I'd give it a go. I set up a steam account and... guess what, I can't play it. She's not using it, I can't use it. Jesus Fucking Christ.
  There will be no third time. Steam fucking sucks, DRM sucks, and anybody who thinks that bringing DRM to Linux sucks. I'm all for being able to go the store, buy a disc with a game on it for Linux, bring it home, install it, and play it, and if the opportunity presents itself, that's what I'll do. What I will not do is be forced to connect to a third party to play a game that I bought.
36. Re: An open system by DrGamez · 2013-09-25 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  Please throw more non-sourced attacks from behind an Anonymous Coward moniker, it really helps sell "crazy conspiracy theorist".
37. Re:An open system by DrGamez · 2013-09-25 09:28 · Score: 1
  
  Steam is an evil trojan horse piece of shit that will turn on all those legions of pathetic fanboys once market dominance is achieved.
  Haha holy shit do they make those tinfoil hats in women's as well? I wanna pick up a few for the family.
38. Re:An open system by DrGamez · 2013-09-25 09:37 · Score: 1
  
  And now you have to do upgrades of hardware?
  
  Why would a Steam Machine be so vastly underpowered it couldn't outlive a comparable console? A mid-range machine will last you a good 5-7 years of decent gaming, even more if you want to keep playing the same games.
  With a console, when it's EOL hits, you get NO more games. There will be no PS4 game that comes out that is real simple in graphics/design and can run on your PS3 - it's just a straight up end of life for your games.
  With a Steam Machine you may not be able to play the newest AAA games, but you can play all the games you once enjoyed, and if the game isn't too demanding, you might be able to still play brand-new games.
39. Re:An open system by DrGamez · 2013-09-25 09:38 · Score: 1
  
  Wow why did I post this without reading the preview.
  I deserve the special level of hell I'm going to be banished to for this.
40. Re: An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 09:49 · Score: 0
  
  No DRM is painless. It forces you to do something that you may not want to do. In my case, having to connect a PC to the Internet for a single-player game to activate it is something that I do not want to do.
41. Re: An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 09:51 · Score: 0
  
  Please throw more non-sourced attacks from behind an Anonymous Coward moniker, it really helps sell "crazy conspiracy theorist".
  I can't imagine what your parents were thinking when they named you "DrGamez". I can kind of imagine what they must look like though.
42. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 09:55 · Score: 0
  
  I only hate DRM that keeps me from what I paid for. Steam's DRM has not done any such thing.
  
  Ok, lets' try an experiment. I'll buy two online games for my kids and let them both play at the same time. Can you do the same with Steam without creating separate accounts?
43. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 11:00 · Score: 0
  
  What's the last AAA PC game that didn't require activation with a serial number?
44. Re: An open system by richy+freeway · 2013-09-25 11:08 · Score: 1
  
  Do you use steam regardless? Whether you answer yes or no, the answer is the same: What are you complaining about then?
45. Re:An open system by blahplusplus · 2013-09-25 11:17 · Score: 1
  
  "Steam's DRM has not cause anyone I know any issues playing their game"
  If you haven't connected to steam in a month, there are a tonne of games that won't work in offline mode. you're forced to download cracked versions to play them. I know because I bought some games who are fully integrated with steamworks on steam for deep discounts.
  Now you might say "That's your fault for not connecting to the internet for a month!" and I'd say I shouldn't be forced to when I've already paid for the fucking games and they already know I have a legitimate licesnse. Games should automatically be de-steamed a few months after their release window NOT REQUIRING any internet permission at all. Why? Because you fucking paid, thats why.
  Anyone who believes valves contract is valid and not con-artist bullshit doesn't have the intelligence to even take part in the discussion.
  We'll take Gabe seriously when he releases a tool to de-steam games that are at least 6 months old, no one should need to get permission to play old games they've bought.
  I'll give gabe the 'benefit of the doubt' that some percentage of REALLY stupid gamers will buy through steam because the are too braindead to figure out torrents and understand how their DRM works.
  The reality is there was no need to create these hurdles at all, right now gaming is sick. Diablo 3 is proof of this, we have SINGLE PLAYER LAG for fuck sakes. Anyone who would defend further abuset is a cancer on gaming.
46. Re:An open system by Cwix · 2013-09-25 11:41 · Score: 1
  
  Besides valve games, what games force you to use Steam?
  
  --
  You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
47. Re:An open system by Darinbob · 2013-09-25 11:50 · Score: 1
  
  Really? The DRM prevents all sorts of legal activities. Until this month you could not give your games away or lend to someone else or resell to a third party, all of which implies that you don't own the game. The new model which is still in beta still limits this somewhat, you can never permanently give away or resell a game and you have a limited set of devices you can "share" with, you share the entire library instead of just one game (definitely oriented towards family and friends), the sharing is based on devices and not accounts, and any region restriction remains in place. Ie, you do not buy the game you merely rent it from Valve. That's the point of DRM. It goes beyond merely copy protection and adds additional restrictions, most often as an attempt to kill the used game market and disallow legal sharing of games.
  Steam DRM has kept me from what I paid for: I paid for a game and am not allowed resell it or regift it. Maybe you personally don't give a damn about those restructions but it has reduced the value of what I purchased. It is intrusive to me. I will target GFWL, Ubisoft, and EA, but I will also keep Steam in that list. Your rights are restricted by DRM no matter how benevolent the dictator.
  I fully understand that some people love Steam and Valve, but it is DRM without any doubts, you can not excuse DRM merely because you are a fan of the games, at best you should say that you tolerate the restrictions instead of actually supporting the DRM concept.
48. Re:An open system by Darinbob · 2013-09-25 11:56 · Score: 1
  
  But not as quickly as they could. Prices of Steam games seem to drop more slowly than the cost of games in boxes in retail stores. There is no inventory or warehousing costs that drive the costs down. Even the fact that it's a digital download instead of a physical game theoretically should have reduced the price, but no such luck since they turn the reduction in manfucturing costs into an increase in margin. Sure, if you want 2 or 3 years the prices drop. Skyrim kept it's price up high for two years before it dropped a bit (down to $30, still more than what games that old would have sold for a decade ago).
  Sure, Steam is convenient. No one denies that. But if you are going to be a fan and defend something, then defend the convenience while still criticizing the DRM.
49. Re:An open system by Darinbob · 2013-09-25 11:57 · Score: 1
  
  Not many, because this new DRM model has become firmly entrenched. The resale market has effectively been killed, and the biggest soldier in that victory came from Steam. There is nothing benign here, the game companies killed off their most hated enemy while their fans cheered.
50. Re:An open system by khellendros1984 · 2013-09-25 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  I've never sold a game. The inability to resell a game that I wouldn't resell anyhow only bothers me in a very distant, disconnected way.
  
  --
  It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
51. Re:An open system by vux984 · 2013-09-25 12:01 · Score: 1
  
  I haven't bought a disc based game since 2007. First portal 1 bit me (but that's a valve game), and then Lost Planet: Extreme Condition (Capcom and a port from Xbox)
  Here's some more Including some pretty big stuff
  The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim -- Bethesda
  XCOM - Enemy Unknown -- (Firaxis/2K)
  Warhammer 40k -- (Relic/THQ)
  Total War: series -- Sega
  Serious Sam 3 - Croteam/Devolver
  There's also stuff from Square Enix, Activision, etc
  "This is a list of games that require Steam authentication, regardless of whether they are purchased at retail or through other digital distribution services..."
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_Steam_authentication
52. Re:An open system by Smauler · 2013-09-25 12:03 · Score: 1
  
  These.
53. Re:An open system by Darinbob · 2013-09-25 12:06 · Score: 1
  
  Explain then why AAA games on Steam often keep full value for two years or more? It is not as cheap as the myth implies.
  I have resold games in the past, rarely though. But it is part of the value of a game you purchase. Twenty years ago I could get a $40 game and resell later for $20, a bargain for two people. Today though I can get a $60 game (two years old even on Steam) and NEVER be allowed to resell it, that is a major loss in value.
  Even if you don't resell, you have the RIGHT to resell. Praising Steam for restricting your rights is very bizarre.
  However this is not only about reselling. What about regifting or lending? I do that a lot. I will give away a game I don't want to play again to someone or lend it out for a few years. The new Steam beta plan for "family" sharing only goes partway to that goal.
  All this still leaves Steam as the primary vanguard promoting Steam.
54. Re:An open system by khellendros1984 · 2013-09-25 12:07 · Score: 1
  
  Right...but it does something similar if you have the disk version and bothered to update it (which forces you into using Origin, if I remember correctly), or if you directly purchase it through Origin. I don't remember if I've tried to play the disk version of DA:O unpatched and offline, but I *do* remember that it has a login and that it checks the authentication of whatever DLC packs you have. DA's not a good choice of game if you're trying to point out Steam's shortcomings; I don't think there's a single release of that game that will work offline 100% the same as it does with an internet connection.
  
  My memories on this are a couple years old, though. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know.
  
  --
  It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
55. Re:An open system by Darinbob · 2013-09-25 12:09 · Score: 1
  
  Then Steam needs to explicitly state that you are not purchasing a game when you spend the money. The boxes you buy in the store with Steam games need to have a large warning that you are not purchasing the game but instead have limited rights to download and play the game.
56. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 12:11 · Score: 0
  
  Luckily, games bought through Steam can often be had at 50-90% discount, so you can afford to buy 2 copies on separate accounts. Not everyone is a pauper with entitlement issues.
57. Re:An open system by Darinbob · 2013-09-25 12:13 · Score: 1
  
  I waited two years to get Skyrim and the price dropped extremely slowly. I waited 5 years until Half Life 2 dropped to under $20, much longer than it took for non-steam games to drop price. This is not the bargain game seller that everyone thinks it is, they do sell inexpensive indie games but they are not the only one. If you want inexpensive games with zero DRM then to see GOG.com.
  In any event, praise Steam for their convenience but don't praise the DRM which takes away your rights.
58. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 12:17 · Score: 0
  
  Does creating a second account cost you anything (aside from 5 minutes, of course)? Is there any upside to having 2 copies of a game on a single account? I don't see how requiring your kids to use separate accounts stops you from using what you've paid for.
59. Re:An open system by Darinbob · 2013-09-25 12:18 · Score: 1
  
  It may be the least intrusive but it still has DRM. And Valve is the biggest pusher of DRM out there. The games do not make it clear at time of purchase that you are merely renting a game. I bought my first Steam game as a physical box from Amazon without knowing until it arrived in the mail that it was encumbered with DRM. Granted, my fault for being a bit excited about a new game in a series from a company that had never used DRM before, so I should have researched it more thoroughly before buying.
  Why is it that music comes with DRM and there's a huge outcry until Apple changes their plan, but Valve does the same thing and people line up behind Valve and cheer it on?
60. Re:An open system by khellendros1984 · 2013-09-25 12:31 · Score: 1
  
  In theory, you knew the limitations that Steam's DRM would impose before you bought the game. They publish them in their EULA, likely in an FAQ on their site (I haven't looked), and the restrictions that you put up with are common knowledge online. In return, you gain a free disk backup service, friends system, and generally a significantly lower price than you'd get buying the game as a stand-alone product.
  
  If you went into the purchase as an informed customer and made the choice to put down the money anyhow, then you got what you paid for, whether you decide that you want something else after the fact or not. Steam comes down to two things: Caveat emptor and TANSTAAFL. DRM sucks more than no-DRM, and paying more sucks more than paying less does. It's a trade-off, and one that many gamers gladly accept.
  
  It annoys me when people are all roses and unicorns about Steam, but I don't see the point in complaining when there are other venues to get games without Steam's trade-offs, and when Valve isn't exactly secretive about the nature of their platform.
  
  --
  It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
61. Re: An open system by theskipper · 2013-09-25 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  What's wrong with that?
62. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 13:16 · Score: 0
  
  Offline mode exists, ya' know. You can play offline mode but saves wont be synced to Valve Servers and multiplayer isn't avaliable nor are updates...
63. Re:An open system by jedidiah · 2013-09-25 13:53 · Score: 1
  
  > I've never wanted to resell my games. I actually think people that do are a little bit odd
  It's like you just landed from some alien planet. Perhaps a StarTrek-esque utopia where they don't use money anymore.
  "What is this commerce thing you speak of?"
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
64. Re:An open system by flimflammer · 2013-09-25 14:13 · Score: 1
  
  Not for PC games it doesn't, unless you also crack your games.
65. Re:An open system by Cwix · 2013-09-25 15:43 · Score: 1
  
  Interesting, thanks for the link.
  I do think it is pertinent to mention though that many of the games on that list are not current hits, and the ones that are come from a few select publishers. Most of the big publishers can only be found on that list with old games.
  
  --
  You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
66. Re:An open system by Cwix · 2013-09-25 15:46 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks for the list, I did not realize it was that extensive. One issue I do see though is that a number of the big publishers dont show up on that list, like EA and Ubisoft. (Except for some older games.) But they have much more draconian DRM schemes. It seems like you are going to get stuck locked into at least one of the DRM schemes.
  
  --
  You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
67. Re:An open system by skine · 2013-09-25 16:21 · Score: 1
  
  Also, for people who don't resell their games, it makes no difference.
  As someone who has been playing video games since the early 1990s, the only games that have left my collection are ones I've misplaced, and ones that I let someone borrow but never had returned (either because of the friend misplacing it, or losing contact with them).
  Plus, I bought Skyrim for $40 on sale a few months after it came out, when the regular price was still $60. If I had bought the game new at $60, then traded it in for MAYBE $20, I would still be out the same $40.
68. Re:An open system by vux984 · 2013-09-25 16:49 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, EA has their own in-house wannabe-steam-clone: Origin
  Everything you dislike about steam, and then worse. I don't use it.
  I used to have a direct2drive account, and its now "gamefly" some of the EA stuff is there, I honestly don't know much about how it stacks up at all.
  And Ubisoft ... yeah... I don't buy Ubisoft anymore either.
  The other really big name I guess is Blizzard, but StarCraft 2, Diablo III are all "always-on" tied to BattleNet so really steam really is the least of all evils for getting access to some of the new stuff.
  These days, I pick stuff up on steam during the sales, pick up classics on GOG.com (truly DRM free), and patronize the humble bundle for (which is usually but not always DRM free; and often dual "drm free + steam key" which is nice).
69. Re:An open system by SkunkPussy · 2013-09-26 00:20 · Score: 1
  
  The only time Steam fucked me was about 5 years ago when I moved into a new house and didn't have the internet for about 6 weeks. The playing offline functionality didn't work so I couldn't access any of my games. Apart from that, its been fine... well maybe it takes too long to log in...but apart from that, fine.
  
  --
  SURELY NOT!!!!!
70. Re:An open system by SkunkPussy · 2013-09-26 00:21 · Score: 1
  
  Blizzard games also take a very long time to reduce on price.
  
  --
  SURELY NOT!!!!!
71. Re:An open system by SkunkPussy · 2013-09-26 00:24 · Score: 1
  
  I have DLC for the first Mass Effect. If I want to play that DLC now I have to install Origin and accept its terms of service. Its completely unreasonable to be forced to agree to additional terms and conditions to play stuff you've already paid for.
  
  --
  SURELY NOT!!!!!
72. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 00:44 · Score: 0
  
  EA has Origin, and Ubisoft has uplay. Both make Steam look like Stallman's wet dream.
73. Re: An open system by master_kaos · 2013-09-26 00:59 · Score: 1
  
  define "intrusive" I have had steam since steam beta (2003), I have about 150+ games on steam, I am almost on steam daily. Not once in these past 10 years have I ever had an issue with steams DRM (yes I have had issues with DRM that is layered overtop such as GFWL, but not steams itself).
  
  I have only used offline mode once or twice a couple years ago so cannot comment on that.
  
  I have gone through many computer rebuilds in the past 10 years, and steam just keeps on working. I can download games I purchased 8 years ago in 30 minutes, it would take me longer to dig out the DVD, try and find the key(assuming I haven't lost it), hook up my DVD drive (since I haven't used a DVD in like 5 years), and then installing it praying the DVD isn't scratched to shit causing it to become unreadable.
  .
  So with my experience I would actually say a game on a DVD is way more intrusive to me than steams DRM.
74. Re:An open system by TWiTfan · 2013-09-26 01:51 · Score: 1
  
  Permanent offline mode?
  
  --
  The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
75. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 02:02 · Score: 0
  
  The two year old game might be 60 dollars today, but I'm willing to bet its 15 during one of the holiday sales. Any particular game ?
76. Re:An open system by Wookact · 2013-09-26 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  I like my old games and still play them occasionally. I definitely don't want to sell them for the what 5 or 10 dollars you would get from gamestop?
  
  Maybe I'm just a game hoarder. But if that 5 bucks is worth it to you, have at it.
77. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 02:19 · Score: 0
  
  You can hack Steam OS and the hardware. I doubt that you can hack Steam ( Legally )
78. Re:An open system by Wookact · 2013-09-26 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  I always purchase the big games at 75% discount. I know what I am getting when I do that. It is license to play the game, nothing more.
  
  If I want friends and family to play the game with me, I typically buy them the game as well. I've also been known to purchase and gift humble bundles.
  
  I can buy 4 copies of a sale game on Steam for under the price of an hour of my labor. My time is too important to rail against the machine over something as trivial as that.
79. Re:An open system by StrangeBrew · 2013-09-26 03:26 · Score: 1
  
  14 bucks for Borderlands 2 and 2 1/2 bucks for Just Cause 2, and no rights were taken away because I purchased them knowing I was purchasing sole owner games. I do partially agree with you though. I don't think Steam should be associated with boxed versions of games without it being plastered all over the cover that the game will be sole ownership only. At that point, if some idiot wants to purchase the new game at 60 bucks, that is there business and not mine.
80. Re:An open system by FlyMysticalDJ · 2013-09-26 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  I don't mind door locks as long as they let me into my house when I want, let me into my friends' houses when they allow me, and prevent other people from getting into my house when I do not allow them. And maybe the world would be a better place if more people invited each other into their homes, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should get rid of locks.
81. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 04:01 · Score: 0
  
  So DRM is OK from hip/cool companies you like, and not OK from evil/greedy companies that you don't.
  Gotcha.
82. Re:An open system by Darinbob · 2013-09-26 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  Most anything sold online as a digital download tends to reduce prices slowly. To be fair it seems that even prices of physical copies of games seem to drop price more slowly than they used to. But I have seen Steam games that are in a box at a store being sold more cheaply than the digital version.
83. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 12:46 · Score: 0
  
  I've never wanted to resell my games. I actually think people that do are a little bit odd, but you may feel free to purchase the disc version from your local box store or Amazon. You can then resell that one. I will continue to snap up 6 month old games for 75% off through Steam though.
  When I was a kid me and my friends used to sell and trade our games all the time, but then there where plenty of used game shops that all offered different amounts for different games and sold the same games at different prices, so it was possible to find a pretty good return on investment, between the 6 of us we had all the major game consoles and computer systems between the NES, Windows 3.11 and Mac System 6.5 on up to the PS2, Dreamcast, Win98 and Mac OS 8 so we got to try all of the great games growing up because we could trade in what we where willing to part with for something we hadn't tried yet.
  Now though, DRM was still in it's infancy and non existent on the game consoles, so it was quite easy to do all of this, this allowed us to play many more games then we could have otherwise afforded and meet many other people that also hung out at the game shops.
  However all of that is long dead since theres now only one company left doing used console games, and they give you nothing for them and their selection of used games is terrible and limited to only current consoles with a tiny section of titles for the previous generation...
84. Re:An open system by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-28 13:18 · Score: 0
  
  Counterstrike created most of their profit before the release of HL2. It was the driving impetus for most people buying the HL disks in the first place.
85. Re:An open system by LordWabbit2 · 2013-10-02 19:11 · Score: 1
  
  Steam's DRM is just less intrusive (to most degrees). I earn enough now that I don't bother pirating games anymore, but I remember when I used to that Steam games DRM was a bitch to get around. Also for older gamers Steam had a very bad name back in the day, it's a lot better now and personally I like it, but it left a bad taste for a lot of people in it's early days. Then there is also the always online requirement of some games that people automatically associate with steam when it's actually the game requirement and not steam itself. I have plenty of steam games which will happily play offline.
  
  --
  There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
86. Re:An open system by Hadlock · 2013-10-04 12:06 · Score: 1
  
  I own some 300 games through Steam, most of which I either bought in a bundle outside of steam, or during a steam sale, I am in no rush to run out and play GTA V, I still need to get through GTA1-4 + San Andreas, Fallout 3, New Vegas and whatever else I bought for under $9.99. Plus in a year or two the new games will run better on my (finally) upgraded equipment.
  
  --
  moox. for a new generation.
A truly useful gaming appliance by TheloniousCoward · 2013-09-25 05:21 · Score: 1

Fine, but will it clean my carpet?
1. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by RandomSkratch · 2013-09-25 05:25 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  It'll only steam, not vacuum.
2. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Spottywot · 2013-09-25 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  Why though does it need to be a Steam Box if it's really just a PC with SteamOS on it? Could I set up a Steam Box shop myself, or would Valve only let licenced vendors sell em? My guess is it would be fine. Which reminds me, I better go play the Half life episodes which I never got round to playing. Half Life 3 must be just round the corner.
  
  --
  In a cybernetic fit of rage she pissed off to another age...
3. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by h4rr4r · 2013-09-25 05:33 · Score: 1
  
  I think the idea here is that you might be able to do that, but most people would not be able to do that.
  Valve can't count to 3 so do not hold your breath.
4. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by houstonbofh · 2013-09-25 05:48 · Score: 2
  
  Why though does it need to be a Steam Box if it's really just a PC with SteamOS on it?
  It doesn't. You can have it right now with Ubuntu and the Steam Client in "Big Picture" mode. But by making a specific hardware spec, there are some massive economies of scale. And by letting us hack it, they get even more economies of scale. (More reasons to by it than just games) And the more boxes out there, the more games they sell. And the more games they sell, the more game developers they attract.
5. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Falkentyne · 2013-09-25 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  Could I set up a Steam Box shop myself, or would Valve only let licenced vendors sell em? My guess is it would be fine.
  
  I totally read it wrong before but yes - looks like you'll have to license it if you want to sell it with hardware but it's free to do that:
  
  From the website: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/
  SteamOS will be available soon as a free download for users and as a freely licensable operating system for manufacturers. Stay tuned in the coming days for more information.
6. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:57 · Score: 0
  
  so no postgres
7. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by lordofthechia · 2013-09-25 06:59 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  One word: Convenience.
  How many people have bought Rokus or Tivos when they could just hook up a PC to their TV, install the right hardware, install the right software (Browser, Silverlight, MythTV) and get the same thing? Convenience.
  The lack of convenience is what has been driving people away from PC gaming to the consoles. Why mess with drivers, OS updates, incompatibilities, updating your anti-virus, etc when you can just plop a game disk into your playstation or xbox and just enjoy the game.
  Now if you already have a PC with steam installed, then you're not the main targeted demographic for SteamOS and/or the Steam Machines. Valve is (rightfully so) looking at all the peoples with wads of cash beating on the doors of Sony and Microsoft and asking themselves "What can we do to bring these people back to PC gaming?"
  So now the consumers have another choice. The easy to use XBOX, Playstation, or pre-configured and ready to go Steam Machine by (Dell, Gateway, Alienware, HP). Just take it home, plug it into your tv, insert credit card, acquire games.
  Already have the PC hardware? Get SteamOS and install it (or dual boot with your favorite OS) to get a similar experience. Want to leave the gaming rig upstairs while you chill on the couch? Get a smaller Steam Machine and stream your workhorse to your TV.
  Their slogan should be: "Shh... No tears, only games"
  
  --
  Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
8. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by MeepMeep · 2013-09-25 07:09 · Score: 2
  
  It'll only steam, not vacuum.
  So you're saying...it doesn't suck?
9. Re: A truly useful gaming appliance by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  Exactly that's why I buy consoles. I spend all day with a computer and when I get home to play, I don't want all the hassle.
  VALVE, give me a plug&play computer with Linux and I'm sold.
  Also, I would like to see more AAA's made for Linux, and when publishers see millions of potential customers with a Steam machine at home, they'll do. Hell, in 5 years we might only see Windows computers in the office.
10. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by marcosdumay · 2013-09-25 08:07 · Score: 1
  
  If I understood the anouncements correctly, with aptitude you can have postgres quite easily.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
11. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Urza9814 · 2013-09-25 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  What drives me to consoles is the ability to have multiplayer without multiple consoles connected over the internet. Seriously, they just port the same code over anyway, why the hell can't you plug two USB game controllers into a PC and play a local multiplayer match? Never seen a single game support that...hopefully steambox will drive some more of that for PCs, since it will presumably be running PC versions of the games...
12. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Narcocide · 2013-09-25 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  Hammerwatch (also recently released on Steam) actually does support exactly that. Its an indie title though and I expect most larger game publishing firms demand that you do not build in features to the game that allow you to buy less copies per person.
13. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Spottywot · 2013-09-25 11:24 · Score: 1
  
  Cool, thanks for the link. I think they have the right idea. So many people hang on to Windows because of the gaming aspect. If Valve can build their OS into a genuine gaming competitor then that's another finger prised off Microsofts grip on the home user space.
  
  --
  In a cybernetic fit of rage she pissed off to another age...
14. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 12:19 · Score: 0
  
  If you're a hot chick, I'll clean your carpet :p
15. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Darinbob · 2013-09-25 12:21 · Score: 1
  
  My guess is that this is intended for console oriented players, not PC players. I don't expect anyone to have this on their desk next to their real PC (unless they could get the steam box to also be a web browser and run turbotax in which case it could replace a lot of pcs).
16. Re: A truly useful gaming appliance by jedidiah · 2013-09-25 14:02 · Score: 1
  
  > Exactly that's why I buy consoles. I spend all day with a computer and when I get home to play, I don't want all the hassle.
  My Myth boxes aren't a "hassle". They "just work". They chug along like nice little appliances. I built them with that in mind. Plus there's the whole "Unix just runs and runs" thing.
  The only "bother" a console saves is BUILDING the thing.
  Admitted, that's a big deal for a total n00b. But lets not pretend that the day to day operation of streamer or PVR software is anything magical or terribly difficult.
  My myth hardware has survived through 3 iterations of ARM based streamer hardware and still runs circles around them despite being very primitive by PC standards.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
17. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 01:06 · Score: 0
  
  L4D (and/or maybe L4D2) supports it, but you probably never heard of it because no one gives a damn. With network multiplayer, you don't have to worry about splitting up/sharing a screen (and PC monitors tend to be a lot smaller than TVs), you don't have to worry about audio if you don't have a pair of speakers around, you can get comfortable without worrying about another person, etc.
18. Re:A truly useful gaming appliance by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 04:37 · Score: 0
  
  While I agree with you that they should add it in more often. At least with Left 4 Dead (1 and 2) you could enable split screen through the console, though that isn't really hassle free.
Just like Google with Android by lordofthechia · 2013-09-25 05:23 · Score: 1

So SteamOS will tread where Google (with Android) has before. Deliver a bridge to your content in the form of a streamlined OS. This is really going to give the common folk a console like experience (pick a game and play) while enjoying the benefits of gaming on a PC (upgrade ability, mods, better game prices).
Hopefully folks will be more agreeable to downloading their games and this will succeed where the Phantom failed!

--
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
1. Re:Just like Google with Android by h4rr4r · 2013-09-25 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  The phantom never even shipped anything, so it might not be fair to compare it. Steam already has a lot of users for their PC product so this should be easier.
  Add in netflix and I will highly consider one.
2. Re:Just like Google with Android by Lithdren · 2013-09-25 05:31 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The OS is open source. If you want Netfix, you can add it yourself if you're motivated enough.
  Otherwise, just make a large enough demand and the company themselves will put one out im sure. I view this thing as a gamechanger, a console system that is upgradeable like a PC? Geez I might even consider one.
3. Re:Just like Google with Android by h4rr4r · 2013-09-25 05:32 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Netflix is not opensource. So porting it is not possible. I could use the wine stuff, but that has performance issues.
  Neflix is owned by someone who sat/sits on MS's board and seems to have no interest in proper linux support.
4. Re:Just like Google with Android by lordofthechia · 2013-09-25 05:37 · Score: 1
  
  > The phantom never even shipped anything, so it might not be fair to compare it.
  True. Apparently they didn't have the content delivery side ironed out and investors may have been hesitant to pump more money into such an odd concept.
  I'm just really stoked. This is such an awesome and smart move on Valve's part. Hopefully it will pay off for them like it did Google.
  One huge bonus I could see really soon is more big box store PCs coming with proper video cards (or the better AMD APUs) instead of the crap integrated video they've been using while misdirecting the consumer with the "Gigs of Ram and Teras of Hard drive!"
  
  --
  Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
5. Re:Just like Google with Android by houstonbofh · 2013-09-25 05:50 · Score: 1
  
  Netflix is not opensource. So porting it is not possible. I could use the wine stuff, but that has performance issues.
  Neflix is owned by someone who sat/sits on MS's board and seems to have no interest in proper linux support.
  And this is why I just renewed Amazon Prime. Love that streaming on Linux.
6. Re:Just like Google with Android by interkin3tic · 2013-09-25 05:58 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Why is this a gamechanger? We already had a videogame playing system that was upgradeable like a PC. It's called "A PC."
7. Re:Just like Google with Android by geekoid · 2013-09-25 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  Because it's more then that.
  It looks like their goal is for the consumer to stream anything they want.
  Right now, getting thing streamed to the living room is a mish mash of technology.
  One box that could stream everything I want regardless of container? that would be a game changer.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
8. Re:Just like Google with Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 07:14 · Score: 0
  
  Because it's more, then that.
  FTFY. But just to further clarify, it starts out as something better, and then somehow degrades into a PC?
9. Re:Just like Google with Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  One box that could stream everything I want regardless of container?
  It's called a PC.
10. Re:Just like Google with Android by nine-times · 2013-09-25 07:48 · Score: 2
  
  Yes, I enjoy my current Linux-based gaming PC with a controller-based interface I can easily use from the couch to play a large selection of games and media.
  Wait a second...
11. Re:Just like Google with Android by spire3661 · 2013-09-25 07:58 · Score: 1
  
  My TV has netflix built right in. Chromecast is $35. Its not really a selling point anymore.
  
  --
  Good-bye
12. Re:Just like Google with Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 08:04 · Score: 0
  
  No. It was a PC with Windows
13. Re:Just like Google with Android by Lithdren · 2013-09-25 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  Netflix doesn't need to be open source. You can stream Netflix to a PC, so you can add it to SteamOS if you wanted to, even if its just through a browser.
  I loved my PS3 for some things, but browsing the web was horrible on their terrible piece of garbage of a web browser. This thing can be built to support Firefox or Chrome if you wanted, and im sure the devs of both of those will be working to make sure that happends. That opens up so many options..this thing IS a PC, but its a PC that you operate like a console system, which is the game changer involved. Nobody here will care much for that i'm sure, but its not aimed at geeks, its aimed at mom and dad, your semi-sentient cousins, or your own kids. The masses.
14. Re:Just like Google with Android by marcosdumay · 2013-09-25 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  Remember when netbooks changed the game, bacause nobody was mass producing cheap portable PCs that were portable enough, or when big screen smartphones changed the game, because nobody was mass producing smartphones that had a big screen, or when tablets changed the game, because nobody was mass producing a tablet that could run tablet software, or when the Raspberry Pi changed the game, because nobody was mass producing a cheap good enough computer with usefull I/O?
  Steam is now mass producing a PC that will fit well in the living room. There are lots of small companies in that ninche, with expensive offers, and no big player. That game is changing now.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
15. Re:Just like Google with Android by Urza9814 · 2013-09-25 09:42 · Score: 2
  
  Netflix's browser streaming doesn't work on Linux because it requires Silverlight DRM. So no, you can't just add a browser to Steam OS; you would need to actually port Netflix's streaming code to something else (or Silverlight's DRM code into Moonlight)
16. Re:Just like Google with Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 09:54 · Score: 0
  
  A lot of people wouldn't fuck Google's Android with a remote-controlled dick because of its design. A lot of people want to buy physical media, use on a machine that they own and control and that nobody can turn off on a whim or an Internet outage. Same with steam.
17. Re:Just like Google with Android by DrGamez · 2013-09-25 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  Because you refuse (through ignorance or stubbornness) to see this as something other people can get excited for, and thus, feel the need to ask some question that you think will blow the lid off this entire project.
  Right now there is someone at Valve who read your comment and is going "Oh shit that's right! We put literally no thought into this! Pull it! Pull it!"
18. Re:Just like Google with Android by interkin3tic · 2013-09-25 10:30 · Score: 1
  
  I'm excited about it. Doesn't mean I think it's a totally revolutionary thing that will change the game games and cure cancer.
19. Re:Just like Google with Android by maccodemonkey · 2013-09-25 10:39 · Score: 1
  
  Why is this a gamechanger? We already had a videogame playing system that was upgradeable like a PC. It's called "A PC."
  Because Windows 8 sucks, and this is Valve putting more wood behind the Linux arrow.
  And their support of OpenGL has benefits for Mac gamers too, I might add.
20. Re:Just like Google with Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 10:51 · Score: 0
  
  You jest, but that's exactly my setup...
21. Re:Just like Google with Android by DrGamez · 2013-09-25 10:59 · Score: 1
  
  Fair enough, sorry for being a bit defensive but I've been (willingly, no excuses) reading a bunch of FUD/misinformation about these announcements.
22. Re:Just like Google with Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 13:30 · Score: 0
  
  This is really going to give the common folk a console like experience (pick a game and play) while enjoying the benefits of gaming on a PC (upgrade ability, mods, better game prices).
  So, you mean, like any other Mac or PC?
  
  Hopefully folks will be more agreeable to downloading their games
  Time will tell as Microsoft failed here, but it considering people's response to Valve's Family Plan versus Microsoft's equivalent, it appears that people will give Valve a pass.
23. Re:Just like Google with Android by symbolset · 2013-09-25 14:45 · Score: 1
  
  Netflix works with Chromecast and Android. And not using Silverlight.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
24. Re:Just like Google with Android by dissy · 2013-09-25 15:44 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I enjoy my current Linux-based gaming PC with a controller-based interface I can easily use from the couch to play a large selection of games and media.
  Wait a second...
  I gather from the ending there that you are in fact not enjoying your current linux based controller based TV PC.
  You might also have noted the slashdot summary claiming this story was valves *second* announcement in this area (of course it would be too much to have asked the editors or submitter to, i dunno, even mention the first one)
  The first announcement was for "The Big Picture" mode added to the Steam client, designed to do exactly this.
  Basically, hookup a PC to your TV, plug in a USB gamepad (xbox usb controllers work as-is, including the $5 cheap-o-clones), then run Steam.
  There is a button at the top right named "Big Picture". Click that.
  It's also under Settings / Interface to start with it enabled, which one would generally want.
  This mode requires no input devices but a gamepad (although it can still utilize a mouse or keyboard if present) - and it can launch games, jump on the web, manage basic PC functions like powering it off or rebooting, as well as pretty much any other feature steam is used for such as the community functions and what not.
  Unfortunately playing media is the only thing I don't know if Steam can do yet.
  While I personally still recommend having a keyboard handy, it's mainly for the same reasons I want a keyboard on xbox or playstation as well.
  Also worth noting that you don't need to use Linux either, Windows and OS X are valid options (for varying values of valid ofc)
  If by chance your HDMI video card works better using Windows drivers, or you already have a spare Windows box laying around, might as well go with that!
  Linux of course brings to the table stability and embedded hardware devices that are more easily hidden away in an entertainment center.
  Point being you can use whatever is better or easier for you at the time.
  If you have Steam on a PC somewhere already, you should check the new mode out at the least. It allows for many new options that were previously annoying at best. Big Screen mode works even on normal tiny LCDs too.
25. Re:Just like Google with Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 16:36 · Score: 0
  
  Why is this a gamechanger?
  Because it allows you to play one game then change it to play another, bro do you even try to keep up?
26. Re:Just like Google with Android by holiggan · 2013-09-25 21:45 · Score: 1
  
  Yes. We also had tablets before the iPad, they were also "PCs". The gamechanging aspect in both situations is to pack the hardware in a conveninent, atractive and easy package to gain traction. Before the iPad, nobody would give a damn about the "PC tablets". Now everyone wants a cut of a market that was pratically non-existing.
  In the present case with the SteamBox and SteamOS, we have both an OS custom tailored to be used with Steam, and a (predictable) large number of hardware alternatives to use that OS, and the Steam service. Instead of jumping the hops to build a "living room PC", lots of people will apreciate the convenience. This might indeed be a gamechanger.
  
  --
  "A sysadmin is a cross between a detective, a police officer, a gardener, a doctor and a fireman"
27. Re:Just like Google with Android by nine-times · 2013-09-26 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  So is the argument, "Why is it such a big deal that Valve is announcing an open game console platform? I'm already using some components of Valve's open game console platform, and it's AMAZING!"?
  Because I agree that Valve's open approach and Linux support is game-changer. I don't see how you can refute it by saying, "It's not a game changer. The game has already been changed. By the very product we're talking about."
28. Re:Just like Google with Android by Urza9814 · 2013-09-26 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  How is that better than just using Wine? Or even using an Android emulator to run the Netflix app? None of which are actual solutions to running Netflix on the Steambox itself.
  Hell if you're resorting to Chromecast you'd probably be better off using one of those dongles I see advertised for ~$20 all over the place; it'd probably give better performance, and it'd certainly be easier.
29. Re:Just like Google with Android by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 04:11 · Score: 0
  
  Right now at Valve, there are people that can read the writing on the wall; that the OS vendors will run their own applications store natively in their OSes, and that computers have advanced to the point where upgrades are no longer useful for anything other than gaming (we've reached the point where current hardware will never be taxed by non-gaming, home usage).
  Valve is desperate to make a major transition before the door on PC gaming shuts completely. They think that they can do this with SteamOS, and with the Steam Machines; and they think that they can do so in a way that serves their own interests. Its not clear if they will be successful.
30. Re:Just like Google with Android by dissy · 2013-09-26 17:02 · Score: 1
  
  No I didn't mean to imply you were incorrect or to argue that point. Apologies if my post came across that way.
  I was only pointing out that the steam/software feature for a tv console has been released, and thought you may be interested to give it a try on a computer.
31. Re:Just like Google with Android by nine-times · 2013-09-30 01:17 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, right now I have one Windows computer that I use solely for games, and I'm really only playing steam games. The problem is, those Steam games aren't available on Linux, at least not yet. If Valve gets enough of the games I'm interested in running on Linux, I'll reformat and switch to SteamOS (or Ubuntu, or whatever is convenient at the time).
Steam OS by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 05:26 · Score: 0

Wake me when I can download it and check it out for myself. If it works better than ubuntu for my HTPC, I'm all for it, even if it's not a gaming rig (intel atom, nvidia ion).
All I know is Ubuntu seems to have issues with both sound and video, which I'd hope are the issues Valve is prioritizing (ubuntu doesn't seem to give a shit).
Proprietary on top of linux = no control for user by rtkluttz · 2013-09-25 05:26 · Score: 0, Troll

I simply don't trust valve. They are currently the lesser of all evils but still evil nonetheless. Give me a gaming kernel replacement (kind of like the real time kernel) in a general purpose OS that I remain in control of and that doesn't spy on me and I'll be a cheerleader. But this thing will do all the same old same old such as spy on me, try to control what I can and can't do on my own machine, try to lock my content, impose artificial limits that I have to buy back etc. etc. etc.

--
Digital is, by definition, imperfect. Analog is the way to go.
Same thing, different day. by jedidiah · 2013-09-25 05:26 · Score: 1

This looks like this will just be a low profile PC tailored to gaming and Linux. In other words, it will pretty much be another variation on the ION nettops that some of us have already been using for quite some time now.
It will be nice to get some fresh blood in this area. If the kit is reasonably priced, some of us might just buy it for our own purposes.

--
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by h4rr4r · 2013-09-25 05:30 · Score: 2

The platform is open, you own the machine. You should be able to just move over the software or even copy their kernel. I really doubt they changed that at all.
Second announcement by Sarten-X · 2013-09-25 05:37 · Score: 4, Funny

Valve's second major living-room-gaming announcement...
...so we're done now, I guess. Next they'll move on to a pair of kitchen-gaming announcements, and maybe a hallway-outside-the-living-room-gaming announcement just to keep the hype up, but interest will wane, anyway... until the upstairs-bedroom-by-the-window-gaming announcement, which will bring back hopes for a third living-room-gaming announcement, and Valve will see the pressure, and release a backyard-gaming announcement.

--
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
1. Re:Second announcement by cervesaebraciator · 2013-09-25 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  Well, how else am I going to get my holodeck?
2. Re:Second announcement by game+kid · 2013-09-25 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  I'm still waiting on the bathroom-gaming announcement. "Turn your tired old mirrored medicine-cabinet door into the place to smash headcrabs, sap sentries, make headshots, dock your Kerbals' spacecraft, and maybe even brush your teeth."
  
  --
  You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
3. Re:Second announcement by geekoid · 2013-09-25 06:09 · Score: 2
  
  I heard that in Cave Johnson's voice.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
4. Re:Second announcement by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 04:44 · Score: 0
  
  We might still get SteamBox: Episode 1 and Episode 2.
5. Re:Second announcement by EmperorArthur · 2013-09-27 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  I heard that in Cave Johnson's voice.
  Things like that are the reason why I can't wait for Voice Synthesizers that can mimic anyone's voice.
  Well, that and the modding. It would be awesome to not have to worry about voice acting when modding Skyrim.
  
  --
  So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
Please remove by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 05:46 · Score: 0

Any code committed by the NSA and bye bye Microsoft. Prepare for pain.
1. Re:Please remove by Anubis+IV · 2013-09-25 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  Seriously. With the shutdown of Games for Windows Live, confusion over the future of DirectX, and the implosion of the Xbox One's launch, it seems as if Microsoft is simply giving up on the gaming space. Considering, "...but can it play GAME_X" is the most common response many of us get from people when suggesting they consider an alternative to running Windows at home, this sort of thing may very well relegate Windows to the business world exclusively, thus fracturing the home OS market between Windows, Mac, flavors of Linux, and mobile devices.
  SteamOS has the potential to convert a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't have looked at Linux into Linux users. And if there's a decent installed base, you can bet that developers will start porting their apps to it (which Steam is already conveniently capable of delivering), or would start porting the necessary libraries to it, which would, in turn, lead to an overall increase in Linux development (and likely Mac development too, given that the developmental hop from Linux to Mac or vice versa is generally a lot simpler than from Windows to either).
  For someone like me, who uses a Mac at home but has been intending to put together a dedicated (Windows) gaming rig for awhile, this seems like it might be the way to go in another year or two, though I'll need to wait and see whether or not the AAA titles really do get developed for it.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 05:46 · Score: 0

Steam has announced that you are free to change the OS or hardware any way you want. How much more open can it get. Holy smokes, if it wasn't written by some basement dweller then it cant be trusted?
Just give me access to the OS. by FictionPimp · 2013-09-25 05:47 · Score: 1

I'm looking to build a new HTPC. I have decided I was going to build a system powerful enough to do linux gaming and run plex on my TV. Just give me steamOS and I'll gladly use it (as long as I can still do my media center applications aka plex or something equivalent that works with my roku box).
1. Re:Just give me access to the OS. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:12 · Score: 0
  
  ... which they have already said they will. And the source too.
  R
  T
  F
  A
2. Re:Just give me access to the OS. by FictionPimp · 2013-09-25 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  I know they said they will, but just do it already.
3. Re:Just give me access to the OS. by Patch86 · 2013-09-25 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  You want a half-finished, buggy and untested Linux distro with bad driver support? Why?
  Give them a chance to finish developing it first. Software development takes time. If I understand it correctly, this Steam OS is just going to be a Linux distro configured to run the Steam for Linux programme on startup, possibly with a few other bits of software and config in support. If you want it so badly that you're willing to put up with a half-finished
4. Re:Just give me access to the OS. by FictionPimp · 2013-09-25 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  I'd help write bug reports and such. Same reason I'd want a beta device.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 05:52 · Score: 1

Your content? Really? You've never owned the content. You've owned the physical layer and a license to use the content for more than a hundred years, but that's very different than owning the content. If you did, truly, own it, than you'd have the right to unlimited redistribution. Not in the last 300+ years of law.
Bye bye Ouya by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 05:53 · Score: 1

We hardly knew yea.
Re:Not True by h4rr4r · 2013-09-25 05:55 · Score: 1

Not Anti-MS anti the guy who runs netflix.
HDCP is cracked, this means you can record from the Tivo or the PS3 just fine.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Kelbear · 2013-09-25 05:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

I do trust Valve, but the parent brings up an important point.
The difference between a PC and a console isn't hardware, it's about control. The hardware and interfaces will all change over time, but the real distinction is who gets to say what happens on the platform. For PCs, users control the environment. For consoles, a company is controlling the environment. There are benefits to users owning the environment, and benefits to a company controlling the environment.
The SteamMachine appears to be a weird hybrid between the two ends of the spectrum, and seems to be giving up the most significant advantages of both ends unless this starts to drive some major changes in game development.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by interkin3tic · 2013-09-25 06:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

The thing about discussing good vs evil, even "lesser of evils" is it necessarily separates things into black and white. This is not really useful for me in a world of greys. Is there a "good" alternative you know of? Because if not, then "the least of evils" should just be redefined as "good."

GOG and other DRM free sites are fine, but they're not really in the same category for most games.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by geekoid · 2013-09-25 06:07 · Score: 1

Why not?
I will assume you trust the people who make you shoes, and shirt, and desk, and microwave and.. everything else in you house.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:Not True by hirschma · 2013-09-25 06:12 · Score: 1

HDCP is cracked, this means you can record from the Tivo or the PS3 just fine.
Some helpful links? I'd love to record from those devices.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Ksevio · 2013-09-25 06:12 · Score: 1

Do you trust Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo more than Valve?

If you're looking for a living room game machine, you need to pick one of these - and 3 of the 4 lock down their hardware and software, while Valve's option is open source and works on different hardware setups.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:13 · Score: 0

Do you have any evidence to backup your claims that the device will spy on you, control your actions, lock your content, and impose artificial limits? Please also expand upon what "etc. etc. etc." refers to.
Your post is nothing but FUD at this point.
this has all been done before by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:14 · Score: 0

Microsoft tried with their Multimedia PC specs in the mid 90's.
The problem is that demand and gaming specs evolved so quickly away from them a suitable baseline only lasted a couple years if that.
And now again with Valve, I don't think the base specs will last very long. People in the PC industry don't like a fixed target.
Valve is going to try it again under the guise of being "linux linux linux" but if you think they're going to let you mod the box and have it still be supported, you'll be smoking something wonderful.
I'm very happy good gaming is coming to linux, just don't think this box will be anything other than a closed platform that you'll have to upgrade in 2 years.
1. Re:this has all been done before by guru42101 · 2013-09-25 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  Fortunately today the hardware requirements are significantly more stable. I used a dell slimline that I had purchased used from my employer as a media center for 5 years with no problems. I'd still be using it today but after moving I do not have any cabinet space for it. The only real limiting factor on it was the fact it was a slimline and video card options are limited. But I reasonably played WoW, GW2, Minecraft, and WAR on it when I didn't want to play on my real PC at my desk.
2. Re:this has all been done before by Iceykitsune · 2013-09-25 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  In recent years the "spec race" has slowed down due to the fagt that the consoles are using pc hardware, which gives devs a minumum spec they NEED the game to run at if they want to have a console version.
  
  --
  GENERATION 24: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
3. Re:this has all been done before by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 09:32 · Score: 0
  
  Microsoft tried with their Multimedia PC specs in the mid 90's.
  
  Microsoft tried with tablets in the 90's too and today we know tablets never took off... not.
  Just sayin'.
Re:Not True by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:16 · Score: 0

Valve is the market maker, like iTunes, it has more leverage with people that want to sell content.
NetFlix doesn't have that kind of leverage with studios. Not Pro-MS, just anti-conspiracy.
What you get paid to sit on a board probably doesn't compare to your salary for running NetFlix, so self interest says if there is a market for NetFlix Linux support NetFlix would provide it.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:17 · Score: 0

Someone else who needs to RTFA. Insightful appears to mean less than it used to.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:18 · Score: 1

"You've never owned the content."
Criminal copyright laws don't need to be respected, anything you pay for you should own. The license for software was the biggest con in law going taking advantage of a tech illiterate population.
Re:Not True by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:19 · Score: 0

Hate replying to myself, but there were Google Execs on Apple's board, so obviously they'd never do anything to compete with the iPhone, right?
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Anubis+IV · 2013-09-25 06:25 · Score: 4, Informative

Give me a gaming kernel replacement (kind of like the real time kernel) in a general purpose OS that I remain in control of and that doesn't spy on me and I'll be a cheerleader. But this thing will do all the same old same old such as spy on me, try to control what I can and can't do on my own machine, try to lock my content, impose artificial limits that I have to buy back etc. etc. etc.
I don't see how any of the complaints you have apply to SteamOS or the Steam machines. In fact, they're giving you what you want. From Valve:

Will I be able to build my own box to run SteamOS?
Yes.
Can I hack this box? Run another OS? Change the hardware? Install my own software? Use it to build a robot?
Sure.
Can I download the OS to try it out?
You will be able to download it (including the source code, if you're into that) but not yet.
So, from what I can tell, they've taken a general purpose OS and fine-tuned some aspects of it for gaming, they're open sourcing it so that you can make your own hacks to it if you want, the hardware for this box will be general purpose stuff that you can hack on to your heart's content, and Valve has no history of engaging in the sorts of artificial limits that you're talking about.
Really, it sounds like your complaints are aimed at Steam (the app, not the OS) and its DRM, which is an entirely separate issue. I don't know why you started talking about kernels and other such things when the OS and machine are as near as I can tell exactly what you described that you wanted.
Re:Not True by h4rr4r · 2013-09-25 06:26 · Score: 1

Googling "record ps3 gameplay hdmi" seems to return a lot of hits.
I don't plan to do that, I merely wanted to point out that if HDCP is good enough then so is nothing.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by TheSkepticalOptimist · 2013-09-25 06:27 · Score: 1

Why would you even be concerned about this?
First, who the fuck are you? Ain't nobody got time to waste spying on you. I can honestly say that there is nothing going on in your life that anybody needs to worry or care about.
Second, its a game console. What are they really going to gleen by tapping into your gaming habits, are they going to figure out you need to be pushed more viagra ads?
Also yes, it's not something you control, its a game console. If you want control, buy a fucking shoebox and stuff it full of the hardware you want to use, end of story. Not everything has to be open. You're just bitching because you can't cheap out with a ~$400 console and make it into something you want it to be that would otherwise cost you more money.
Lastly, what is the alternative? If you are really afraid of "spying" then stay off the Internet and go back to gaming on the NES.

--
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Where Have I Seen This Before? by ewhac · 2013-09-25 06:28 · Score: 1

This sounds curiously like the model that the 3DO console was supposed to embody 20 years ago (well, 20 years minus ten days or so). In fact, I'm having trouble identifying any significant differences from it.
The idea as presented was to create a common reference platform and get multiple HW vendors to build to the spec and compete on price, like they all were doing with VCRs at the time. The 3DO Company itself wouldn't build anything, getting its money from per-disc royalties ($3/copy). Ultimately, three manufacturers put out 3DO-compatible machines -- Matsushita (Panasonic), LG (nee Goldstar), and Sanyo.
However, the 3DO console famously released at a staggering $700 (1993) and, despite several price drops, never really lost the stigma of being, "too expensive." As a consequence, the installed base never really took off to the same degree as Nintendo and Sega (Sony's Playstation didn't exist back then). As such, 3DO started publishing its own games, and doubled the per-disc fees. Still not enough. 3DO eventually shed all of its platform development talent and become another game development house until it died around 2003.
It'll be interesting to see if Newell can succeed where Hawkins failed.

--
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
1. Re:Where Have I Seen This Before? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  Newell can succeed in anything, he's too big to fail
2. Re:Where Have I Seen This Before? by FreonTrip · 2013-09-25 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  Technology and economies of scale have come a very, very long way from the 3DO. From what I've seen and heard I wouldn't bet against it, and I'd certainly place better odds on it than the 3DO.
  Man, that Doom port sucked.
3. Re:Where Have I Seen This Before? by CronoCloud · 2013-09-25 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  That's what I've been saying over the past Valve stories that it's 3D0 all over again, but Slashdot is PC gamer centric and a good portion (especially the Europeans) don't know jack about consoles. PC Gamers also love steam because they're "cheap bastards" who spent so much money on hardware they don't have money for games, so they play LoL, or TF2, or de_dust only games in CS to the exclusion of anything else.
  And suppose they pull it off, then some shiny obsessed PC gamer is going to whine when the SteamOS games are developed to support the base models rather than his $2500 upgraded steambox and that the cheap models are "holding gaming back" just like they complain about the PS3 and 360 today.
  And they'll whine when the games are optimized for a dual analog gamepad for Big screen mode, because they have their Steambox connected to a 27" monitor on a desk instead of a TV in the living room.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Asmodae · 2013-09-25 06:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

Think carefully about those statements. Here are some possible consequences of SteamMachine:
Failure - Status quo is maintained.
Success (even moderate success) - LINUX Gains a huge user base dedicated to gaming. The calculus of game developers and publishers with regards to LINUX development and Linux ports does a complete 180. Native support for LINUX games becomes something publishers might actually consider as worthwhile instead of "WTF is LINUX?".
Success and Valve turns evil - Games will be made to natively support LINUX so they run on the Steam console hardware platform of the day. DRM can and will be circumvented as always, but now they'll run on LINUX instead of Windows.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by houstonbofh · 2013-09-25 06:53 · Score: 1

Give me a gaming kernel replacement (kind of like the real time kernel) in a general purpose OS that I remain in control of and that doesn't spy on me and I'll be a cheerleader.
Then use Ubuntu and the Steam Client. That is essentially what this is, but without the GP desktop.
Friday by h4x0t · 2013-09-25 07:00 · Score: 1

Next announcement on friday... 09/27/2013.

Nine-Twenty-Seven
All divisible by three
Half-Life Three confirmed

Haiku confirmed. 2013 is divisible by 3 as well... but I couldn't fit it in verse.
1. Re:Friday by Roland · 2013-09-25 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  No, the next announcement will be delayed for 7 years.
  
  --
  whee -Me
Perhaps they should have some console gamers Beta by CronoCloud · 2013-09-25 07:03 · Score: 0

Basically the Beta is limited to those who basically play only PC games, since as of now Steam is PC only. But this thing is intended to be "console-y" so perhaps they should test it, not on PC gamers, but on actual console gamers. That is, if they want to sell this thing to console gamers at all...by their statements about upgradeable hardware....I think not.
Half Life 3 by N1tr0u5 · 2013-09-25 07:16 · Score: 2

Half Life 3 would be the launch title to get this platform off the ground.
1. Re:Half Life 3 by HerculesMO · 2013-09-25 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  This is nice in theory, but HL3 would have to be a SteamOS exclusive in order for Steam Machines to take off at all... and if he's not a total moron, he won't do that. It will be released from Windows.
  While I understand this buys people OPTIONS, most people are not technically inclined, nor will they see a benefit to getting a Steam Box. They have a Windows PC and they can play all their games -- on Steam -- on that. The Steam Box will offer them exactly the same capability, but less games, because games that don't work on Steam (ala Battlefield and Origin games) won't be available. Will SteamOS have a lot of games supported? Sure they will -- but they will still be supported in Windows as well. So why would you plunk down more money to buy a dedicated machine whose catalog of games can be played on a machine already?
  Granted I do think there are some possibilities in terms of gaming via "big screen" and this can be resolved by MS releasing a similar set of software (RemoteFX comes to mind here as a technology) and possibly hardware to do exactly what the SteamOS can do around streaming games into the living room. SmartGlass is a platform that also could help here, and using the Xbox One as a medium to serve up PC games through the console interface via RemoteFX and Smartglass is actually doable and probably a good idea. Granted I won't put it past MS to fail to see the opportunity here, especially since that's the only component that SteamOS offers other than what is currently offered via Windows.
  Time will tell, but SteamOS at this point isn't really interesting enough for me to move, and if I still have Steam on Windows, then I'll be just fine staying there. nVidia and ATI may provide driver support to Linux but realistically the performance is always better on the main platform -- Windows. I don't see that changing any time soon.
  
  --
  The price is always right if someone else is paying.
2. Re:Half Life 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 09:57 · Score: 0
  
  Dream on. Half Life 3 is not coming. Read up on Valve's way of running a company. They let their employees decide what happens. And it's obvious by now that they lost interest at some point.
3. Re:Half Life 3 by Pecisk · 2013-09-25 10:04 · Score: 1
  
  It is quite clear that third thing in annoucement row is Half-Life 3 timed exclusive to this platform.
  
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  user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
4. Re:Half Life 3 by Pecisk · 2013-09-25 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  "This is nice in theory, but HL3 would have to be a SteamOS exclusive in order for Steam Machines to take off at all... and if he's not a total moron, he won't do that. It will be released from Windows."
  GTA5 was just released for consoles and earned billion in nearly two weeks. No, gaming don't need Windows anymore. They just need to to timed exclusive. It will be enough to get Steam machines in enough households to people start to enjoy them.
  Also please get your facts stright. Valve itself said that NVidia is faster on Linux and that was one of their reasons why they started to draw plans to do this. Windows 8 was tipping point.
  
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  user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
5. Re:Half Life 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 11:27 · Score: 0
  
  GTA5 has only been out for 8 days, it made a billion dollars by day 3.
6. Re:Half Life 3 by Jesrad · 2013-09-25 18:33 · Score: 1
  
  Given the landscape of the gaming industry, the console-dumbing-down of games, the "next-gen" consoles rivaling in unattractiveness, the Nintendo sorry state of affairs, etc. the only thing Valve has to absolutely do to succeed, is just this: don't flunk it.
  
  --
  Maybe we deserve this world ?
7. Re:Half Life 3 by antdude · 2013-09-26 02:00 · Score: 1
  
  Ditto. They might do that. I remember when id Software did that for qtest. Linux, Mac, and then Windows. :D
  
  --
  Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 07:23 · Score: 0

>Valve's option is open source
LOL, yeah right. The OS will be open source. The Steam and DRM bits, not so much.
Will the OS be compatible with my PC ? by doubletalk · 2013-09-25 07:26 · Score: 0

I wonder if Steam OS going to be free (as gratis and as freedom) and compatible on any PC just like a normal Linux OS with all supported drivers or if it's going to be like Chrome OS and Android, which only work on some hardware carefully chosen by the devs ?
In this case, Steam OS would only work well on a Steam Machine. Of course ,we may be able to fork it but still, it's better for us if the devs take the Canonical approach and try supporting the maximum hardware possible, contributing to Linux in the same time.
1. Re:Will the OS be compatible with my PC ? by symbolset · 2013-09-25 14:50 · Score: 1
  
  They have already said "wide open":
  
  Will I be able to build my own box to run SteamOS? Yes. Can I hack this box? Run another OS? Change the hardware? Install my own software? Use it to build a robot? Sure. Can I download the OS to try it out? You will be able to download it (including the source code, if you're into that) but not yet.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 07:26 · Score: 0

Give me a gaming kernel replacement (kind of like the real time kernel) in a general purpose OS that I remain in control of and that doesn't spy on me and I'll be a cheerleader.
Well, if they did that, then you'd just say

this thing will do all the same old same old such as spy on me, try to control what I can and can't do on my own machine, try to lock my content, impose artificial limits that I have to buy back etc. etc. etc.
Linux users excluded from beta? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 07:37 · Score: 0

Perhaps I missed something, but it appears linux users are excluded from the beta. According to their beta test requirements, you have to play a game using a gamepad in 'Big Picture' mode. The Big Picture mode page says its only supported on Windows and OSX, which means Linux users are excluded from joining the beta test pool.
==snip==
THE HARDWARE BETA ELIGIBILITY QUEST:
Before October 25, log in to Steam and then visit your quest page to track your current status towards beta test eligibility
1. Join the Steam Universe community group
2. Agree to the Steam Hardware Beta Terms and Conditions
3. Make 10 Steam friends (if you haven't already)
4. Create a public Steam Community profile (if you haven't already)
5. Play a game using a gamepad in Big Picture mode
==snip==
==snip==
Big Picture System Requirements
OS OS Windows Vista, 7, or 8. Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) or newer.
==snip==
1. Re:Linux users excluded from beta? by BluPhenix316 · 2013-09-25 08:03 · Score: 1
  
  Big Picture Mode does and has worked on Linux for a while now. Infact Big Picture mode worked on their beta before it was even "officially" released.
2. Re:Linux users excluded from beta? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 08:19 · Score: 0
  
  Interesting - I'm just going by what's advertised on their website to see if its worth signing up for an account. Which is why I included the ==snip== sections of content I copied. The Big Picture requirements came from their store.steampowered.com/bigpicture page
3. Re:Linux users excluded from beta? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 22:32 · Score: 0
  
  Huh? I played Portal with a gamepad in big picture mode last night. Not exactly my favorite way of playing, but hey, Portal level 1 is not exactly hard to get through, and that was enough to get that point checked.
  Only problem that required a bit of googling was the default permissions on gamepad device was 600 (root only) instead of 644 (everybody), but hey, nobody would expect Slackware to come with udev rules for things like gamepads.
Re:Perhaps they should have some console gamers Be by BanHammor · 2013-09-25 07:40 · Score: 1

One of their requirements is that you should have played at least a game with the Big Picture mode on Steam to get it.
Serious Question by AdamStarks · 2013-09-25 07:44 · Score: 1

One of the benefits of traditional consoles is the (relative) lack of the kind of hardware fragmentation that can cause errors, glitches, and performance drops. Case in point, my copy of No More Heroes just works when I pop it into my Wii. Of course when you do have an issue (due to aged hardware or what have you), there's not much you can do about it.
One of the benefits of PC's is that when something DOES go wrong, you can usually figure out what's wrong and fix it. For example, when XCOM: Enemy Unknown came out, I was experiencing unplayable slowdown (not a low framerate, more like slow motion). After an hour of digging around and trying a few things, I figured out that I needed to update my BIOS. Unfortunately, the BIOS updater refused to recognize the thumb drive carrying the update file, and it took a little more searching to find out that BIOS's sometimes have trouble recognizing thumb drives that are larger than 512 mb. Most stores no longer carry drives that small, but fortunately I was able to find someone at work with an old, tiny thumb drive lying around, and used it to update my BIOS at home. Voila, all the issues disappeared, and the game ran great! The whole experience was annoying and frustrating, but I was ultimately able to fix the issue.
So... if SteamBox or whatever they call it has all the hardware fragmentation of PC's, with the streamlined interface of traditional consoles, what's my recourse for when the game has obscure compatibility issues with the hardware? Will you be able to back out into a Linux shell and fix the issue yourself? Will it be up to standards adherence and vigilant devs to make sure hardware fragmentation doesn't get out of hand? Or is there some magic bullet that Valve has discovered?
Or are we looking at the worst of both worlds, with broken games that you can't fix?
1. Re:Serious Question by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 08:13 · Score: 0
  
  They intend it to be completely usable only with a controller... sooo.. CLI locked out maybe?
2. Re:Serious Question by Voyager529 · 2013-09-25 08:27 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  One of the benefits of traditional consoles is the (relative) lack of the kind of hardware fragmentation that can cause errors, glitches, and performance drops....Will it be up to standards adherence and vigilant devs to make sure hardware fragmentation doesn't get out of hand? Or is there some magic bullet that Valve has discovered?
  Or are we looking at the worst of both worlds, with broken games that you can't fix?
  My guess...as in GUESS, as in Gabe hasn't discussed with me over a game of Xcom...is that it will likely be closer to an AutoCAD kind of situation. AutoCAD gives a short list of Quadro and FirePro cards that are 'Certified'. They are stupidly more expensive than other cards...but if you have a support contract with AutoCAD and you say that there's a video bug, they will (in theory) work with you to get to the bottom of it, because those cards are thoroughly tested with the software.
  What seems to make sense in this case is to have a Steam Machine that can have different modules like a PC, but in a much more simplified manner, like a console. You may not have a GeForce 790GTX contingent on a 1KW power supply and a compatible motherboard...you'll have all the Steam Machines shipping with baseline hardware and modularized core components. You'd be able to get a "level 2 GPU", "level 2 RAM", "level 2 SSD", and a "level 2 processor", and next year they'll have "level 3" versions, and so on. Driver updates can be a non-issue because they can be baked into the SteamOS patches; since they know what the modules will be, they can easily have the drivers ready without a problem.
  It *can* be the best of both worlds if it ends up being "limited choice". Being able to throw any old GPU from Newegg into the Steam Machine will be a mess, but being able to have different combinations of hardware levels in the same box can still provide some degree of choice while keeping a level of consistency that will be in line with the advantages of traditional consoles.
Steeeeeeeeeam Machiiiiiine by AtomicDevice · 2013-09-25 07:46 · Score: 0

Did no one else think of that immediately?

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Ze Atomic Device! It iz Ztolen!
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by umafuckit · 2013-09-25 08:16 · Score: 1

The SteamMachine appears to be a weird hybrid between the two ends of the spectrum, and seems to be giving up the most significant advantages of both ends unless this starts to drive some major changes in game development.
It's not so weird. You're thinking about it wrong because you're thinking in terms of "companies" in the abstract. Think what Valve is trying to get out of it and then think whether this has any value to consumers.
Valve wants to get away Windows because it doesn't want competition from the Windows App Store and because it doesn't want to be dependant on Windows as a platform. By going their own way they have the chance to lock out the MS App store and to prodce a dedicated gaming OS that might bring about performance enhancements for users. It's also an opportunity to work their way into the living room and reach a new user base. They are doing this on the cheap by producing an open source OS and giving it away to hardware manufactures. This means they don't have to spend the big bucks the way MS did with the XBox. If they succeed they will hopefully bring more games into the fold, which expands their offerings on Steam and therefore increases revenues. All of these are advantages for Valve and that's why they're pushing this. They're looking to the future.
So what do consumers gain by following them? If your Windows box is only maintained for gaming then you can ditch Windows, which will save you money in upgrades and associated Windows BS. It also offers an easy way to take PC gaming into the living room, which might be nice for some people. The possibility of more games on Steam is also good, as it's a convenient platform with fairly sane policies regarding DRM. Hopefully Valve will put in place some recommendations regarding the specs of the machines, which might result in games that take better advantage of the available hardware. Nonetheless, it seems reasonable to expect these boxes to have be upgradable components: users may be able to add more RAM or swap out the GFX card three years down the line. So your SteamBox will be looking good whilst the current PS/XBox generation starts showing its age.

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soylentnews.org
Beta Test? Marketing Gimic.... by danknight48 · 2013-09-25 08:21 · Score: 1, Troll

30 testers, hand picked for being forum trolls and reporting the obvious .
270 testers, picked at random when they do the following:
- Join some random group (facebook like anyone?)
- Add 10 friends (10 random people you've never met, nor, give a shit about)
- Launch and play a game using a gamepad in Big Picture mode (Play a game with a restricted console controller, on your PC!)
If you cant beat facebook, just be facebook.
This isnt a beta test, its a marketing gimmick using muppets to promote the product.
No offence, but i expected a more "controlled" beta, using people with experience, hell, even fill out a form of YOUR EXPERIENCE. Not some typical facebook users with an IQ less than 10.
Bloody worlds gone to pot, shame Valve has followed the trend.
1. Re:Beta Test? Marketing Gimic.... by DrGamez · 2013-09-25 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  WHOA that is some high-level conspiracy thinking there.
  What does joining steam groups or adding friends do to further Valve's bottom line?
The new Phantom? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 08:25 · Score: 0

Will it be like the Phantom console ? Because here, we have a lot of similitude (minus the required subscription of the Phantom). Still it will be an handicapped PC.
Steam steals your freedom by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 08:29 · Score: 0

It's undoubtedly using NVIDIA or AMD graphics which are proprietary. It's not ideal for a device like this that you should have complete control over. I'll stick to the numerous free software friendly games and avoid Steambox / boxes.
There are great little devices that work just fine for gaming. I just got a Penguin Wee 4th Gen from ThinkPenguin that's working great. It's not going to play the latest and greatest although it will play many of the free software friendly games out there and it's even more powerful than some of the spec's I've seen listed for Steambox.
But... I suppose the people buying these things don't care or are at least unaware. Last I checked steam itself was proprietary.
1. Re:Steam steals your freedom by dissy · 2013-09-25 15:54 · Score: 1
  
  Steam steals your freedom ...
  It's undoubtedly using NVIDIA or AMD graphics which are proprietary.
  As are most all gaming PCs, as well as current and last gen game consoles.
  Until Intel got their head out of their ass recently as far as their GPUs go, basically nvidia and amd graphics were your only options. Hell, Intel graphics are just as closed too.
  Claiming that Steam steals your freedom due to the video card is pretty hypocritical, considering the PC you made your post from and thus by extension you, have the exact same fault.
  Yes it sucks that the big 3 keep their GPUs closed, no argument there.
  But there aren't any other 3d cards on the market that are both open and can claim to be within 15-20 years of the technology nvidia/amd bring to the table.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 08:30 · Score: 0

That concept would work wonderfully in a world where people didn't need to eat or have a place to live.
Maybe that massive game development scene in soviet russia was a sign of the times to come, huh?
Game lineup by phorm · 2013-09-25 08:34 · Score: 1

Half Life 3
Left for Dead 3
Possibly a new Portal...
A few of those would be guaranteed to garner some attention.
GamePad Requirement by Jonah+Hex · 2013-09-25 10:10 · Score: 1

In order to get past the GamePad requirement if you don't have one:
install HeadSoft VJoy
open the Tray Icon
Enable vjoy checkbox top left
set Button #2 to a key on the keyboard (I set buttons 1 to 4 as numeric keys 1 to 4)
open Steam in Big Picture mode
navigate to library
hover over game with mouse
hit Button #2 to open game (Button A)
hover over play icon with mouse
hit Button #2 to open game (Button A)

--
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
1. Re:GamePad Requirement by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 14:58 · Score: 0
  
  Or you could... Go get a gamepad?
  Seriously, it's not that much of an investment and they're superior for platforming games. (And I find myself playing XCOM: EU with one, of all shocking things).
2. Re:GamePad Requirement by Jonah+Hex · 2013-09-26 10:11 · Score: 1
  
  Or you could... Go get a gamepad?
  I didn't feel like digging my old one out of a box or going to the store to purchase one, all I wanted to do was qualify for the beta. This is a way to do that.
  
  --
  Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
Tivoization by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:11 · Score: 1

The TiVo DVR was tivoized and couldn't run anything but TiVo's own software. Did the TiVo DVR have games? And is there any evidence one way or the other as to whether these SteamOS devices will allow running X11/Linux games obtained from unknown sources?
1. Re:Tivoization by Darinbob · 2013-09-25 12:19 · Score: 1
  
  No, you can hack the Tivo to run your own software for the most part, there's only one small part you can't change.
2. Re:Tivoization by jedidiah · 2013-09-25 13:56 · Score: 1
  
  > No, you can hack the Tivo to run your own software for the most part, there's only one small part you can't change.
  Really. I am sure the Myth guys would be interested in that. Just about anything that could possibly be hacked to run MythTV on the cheap gets a lot of discussion on the mailing list.
  Never heard of anyone having their way with a genuine Tivo.
  Since I had a few collecting dust for awhile I would have been very interested too.
  I probably hacked my first Tivo before you ever even heard of them.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
3. Re:Tivoization by slim · 2013-09-26 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  You could probably run MythTV on a series 1 TiVo. It would probably perform like a dog.
  One of the closed-source proprietary pieces TiVo put into the software, was their filesystem optimised for PVR use patterns. The system could write a compressed SD stream to disk, while reading another, only with the help of a filesystem designed for the purpose.
  Within about a year of the first TiVos coming out, commodity HDDs were fast enough to do the same job using an ordinary ext2 filesystem.
  I don't think it's DRM that's stopping you from running MythTV on a TiVo.
Unless the game gets an update by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:21 · Score: 1

With a Steam Machine you may not be able to play the newest AAA games, but you can play all the games you once enjoyed
Unless the game gets an update, and the update has increased the game's system requirements. Didn't this happen when Valve upgraded the Source engine not to run on older machines anymore, breaking existing copies of Half-Life 2? I know Sony did it with an EverQuest update back in 2001. Or is Valve going to do something like what Apple recently introduced, allowing users to download a previous version compatible with a given machine?
1. Re:Unless the game gets an update by DrGamez · 2013-09-25 10:41 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not going to ask you to list out every case this happened, and yes this would be unfortunate, but really how often do you see this being a problem?
  Honestly now. This is not getting in the water because one time you heard about a kid who peed in it.
2. Re:Unless the game gets an update by tepples · 2013-09-25 11:01 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with you that it's not likely to be a big practical issue. Back when those games came out, the MHz race was still on; it's a cores race now, and cores require more rearchitecting of the engine. And once hardware comes out, there'll be a lot more pressure on Valve not to issue breaking patches for existing games sold when that hardware was still on shelves.
It's about gamepads and Big Picture mode by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:26 · Score: 1

Why though does it need to be a Steam Box if it's really just a PC with SteamOS on it?
Because it ships with a gamepad and has a case designed to fit in next to a television. Your average PC has a massive case by consumer electronics standards: it makes Microsoft's infamously "XBOX HUEG" consoles look like a Wii or a PC Engine. It also ships with a mouse and keyboard and is marketed for use at a desk with a 19-24" desktop monitor. This is not the best fit for the sorts of games traditionally played on televisions, especially games that allow offline multiplayer using multiple gamepads. SteamOS and Steam Machine appear to be efforts to get more controller-friendly, Big Picture-ready games onto Steam.
1. Re:It's about gamepads and Big Picture mode by jedidiah · 2013-09-25 14:12 · Score: 1
  
  > Because it ships with a gamepad and has a case designed to fit in next to a television.
  Neither of those is terribly remarkable in this day and age.
  > Your average PC
  is not nearly as big as it used to be. Lower profile machines have been around for a very long time. Having more living room friendly options isn't even a new thing really.
  The main thing about a SteamBox will be having a low profile system that's more Linux friendly.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Couch multiplayer games for PCs by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:34 · Score: 1

Seriously, they just port the same code over anyway, why the hell can't you plug two USB game controllers into a PC and play a local multiplayer match? Never seen a single game support that
I'll show you more than "a single game". Street Fighter IV supports couch multiplayer, as does the (2 years delayed) port of Mortal Kombat (2011). So do a lot of the games on this page and on another page that nschubach pointed out. Look for indie and amateur games, as their developers are less likely to have console licenses to fall back on.
Cracked's 7 Commandments by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:36 · Score: 1

I expect most larger game publishing firms demand that you do not build in features to the game that allow you to buy less copies per person.
David Wong of Cracked would agree with you. But are there documented cases of couch multiplayer being cut from a PC or console game so that the publisher can sell multiple copies to one household?
Couch multiplayer by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:42 · Score: 1

It's a game changer because of perception. Unlike a typical desktop PC, these are designed from the ground up for the living room. Instead of a huge tower, they come in a sleek consumer electronics case. Instead of a mouse and keyboard, they come with a gamepad and encourage users to buy and connect more for couch multiplayer. And instead of having to build your own, they come with the convenience of being able to use out of the box.
A game that I do own by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:45 · Score: 1

If I buy a typical retail game console, I can't run a game even if my team created it from the ground up, wrote every line of code, drew every sprite. Instead, I have to satisfy a console maker's arbitrary and expensive demands in order to do that. Unlike a typical game console, a PC or OUYA console lets me run a game that I do own.
Thinking of a six letter word starting with T by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:47 · Score: 1

Maybe that massive game development scene in soviet russia was a sign of the times to come, huh?
Alexey Pajitnov came from the Soviet Union and produced one of the most popular video game franchises ever, with ongoing sequels for nearly three decades and counting.
What are "free software friendly games"? by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:52 · Score: 1

I can think of three things that "free software friendly games" might mean: games that are themselves free software and free cultural works, games that are free software but require the purchase of mission packs (e.g. Doom, Quake III), or just games whose graphical complexity is low enough to run on a pre-Haswell Intel IGP (the desktop GPU with the most complete free driver). Which did you mean?
free add-on by Tom · 2013-09-25 10:53 · Score: 1, Informative

It also comes with a free "if it breaks, you're fucked and we'll laugh about you" add-on, courtesy of the Valve customer service.
Wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole. Not with Valve behind it.

--
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
1. Re:free add-on by symbolset · 2013-09-25 14:51 · Score: 1
  
  So you've never called EA?
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
2. Re:free add-on by Tom · 2013-09-26 03:30 · Score: 1
  
  Nope, never had to. They don't make a product that will take all of the games I bought hostage when it breaks.
  That doesn't mean I would touch it if they brought out an entertainment system. So I kind of don't know what your point is. If it is that there are at least two companies that suck, we have no argument on that.
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
3. Re:free add-on by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 13:28 · Score: 0
  
  It also comes with a free "if it breaks, you're fucked and we'll laugh about you" add-on, courtesy of the Valve customer service.
  Wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole. Not with Valve behind it.
  596 complaints with a user base of 50 million works out to 0.001192% of people are unsatisfied customers. In otherwords a totally and completely acceptable amount that is WAY less then 1 tenth of 1 percent of the users
4. Re:free add-on by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 17:24 · Score: 0
  
  And a lot of those complaints are about the games themselves which Valve has no control over. One guy was complaining about the game description and poor voice overs. Another guy was mad because his CD key was revoked by the publisher. He contacted Valve and the store he bought it in but not the publisher. Another guy was made because he says Valve won't stop the DoS attacks on L4D2 servers. What's Valve supposed to do for these people? So is the 596 really genuine Steam/Valve issues?
5. Re:free add-on by Tom · 2013-09-27 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  600 complaints to the BBB. For a company that refuses to register with the BBB.
  
  596 complaints with a user base of 50 million works out to 0.001192% of people are unsatisfied customers.
  That is the worst example of statistics abuse I've seen in a long while. Almost nobody outside the US even knows about the BBB, for starters.
  What matters is not how many customers have a problem. What matters is how you handle it. These are not 600 unsatisfied customers, these are 600 customers unsatisfied to such a degree that they launched an official complaint with a quasi-government agency. That's a long shot from just being unhappy. How often have you been unhappy with some company or product in your life? How often have you filed a formal BBB complaint? Divide your percentage by that fraction, then by the fraction of US vs. world-wide customers, then you are getting somewhere into the vicinity of a number that means what you claim it does.
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Three of five by tepples · 2013-09-25 10:53 · Score: 1

It's three of five now. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are fans of lockdown. OUYA and now Valve, less so.
1. Re:Three of five by Ksevio · 2013-09-26 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  OUYA isn't a serious contender either in hardware, mainstream games, or number of units. Valve at least has the game library and can be put on any hardware.
2. Re:Three of five by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-26 13:44 · Score: 0
  
  OUYA is a non starter and will be dead within a year due to the fact that 99% of the games it runs require a touch screen and thus people will just play those games on their phone or tablet.
Re:Not True by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 11:30 · Score: 0

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hdcp+crack
Re:Steeeeeeeeeam Machiiiiiine by Neo-Rio-101 · 2013-09-25 11:37 · Score: 1

Yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkEYnXd5VkY

--
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Steam Engine by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 13:03 · Score: 0

I can't be the only one who wants to see it named that.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by sharklasers · 2013-09-25 14:14 · Score: 1

DRM, even Steam DRM, effectively enforces a limited timeline of an arbitrary length of what is purchased. If we truly want to see games being considered a form of art, why do we put up with DRM on art? It doesn't make sense to hobble something in such a way.
I honestly don't care about the lack of resale value with games purchased on Steam. What I can about is whether I can play something for nostalgic reasons in, say, 10-20 years without having to worry about a vendor existing or needing to use cracks (which may or may not exist, nevermind the extra issues associated with this). The ONLY reason I can see DRM still being present on games is because people have given up and don't want to miss out on the big titles.
Re:Not True by jedidiah · 2013-09-25 14:17 · Score: 1

You're still spouting nonsense.
Amazon Prime works on Linux. So does Hulu. So there's nothing inherent in Linux that makes it "unsuitable as judged by the studios".
Then there's the fact that there's a MacOS Netflix client. Apple didn't "bend over and say ahh" to Hollywood either. There is no "secure path" on MacOS. So Apple isn't any more "suitable as judged by Hollywood" either.
This is all about Netflix making a bad technology decision and tying their wagon to one of Microsofts attempts to dominate some part of the industry that they didn't have control over yet.
This is all about Netflix swimming in the Kool-aid and jumping on Microsoft's bandwagon and attempting to unseat Adobe.

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This AC thinks it's remarkable by tepples · 2013-09-25 14:21 · Score: 1

Because it ships with a gamepad and has a case designed to fit in next to a television.
Neither of those is terribly remarkable in this day and age.
If you'd believe an Anonymous Coward's side of this story, then shipping with a gamepad and being marketed for use with a TV are remarkable because they are beyond the lowest common denominator for PC gaming. Is this AC right or just full of crap?
Re:Not True by symbolset · 2013-09-25 14:44 · Score: 1

Just checked with customer support. Apparently still no plan to add Linux support to Netflix at this time. Maybe if they got more people asking? I asked for a more-streams plan, and a few months later that happened. I think they listen to requests.

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Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by interkin3tic · 2013-09-25 15:09 · Score: 1

That seems like an odd reason to not play a game NOW. Keep in mind you're not getting a choice between Steam as it is and steam as it is but minus the DRM. That's not an option that exists. Were steam to do away with any DRM, they'd also do away with most of the games on steam, and steam would look like GOG.

Time limits on games has not been the case thus far on most games on steam. Some games have been removed from the store, but certainly not most of them. Suggesting you're limited in how long you can play a game because of DRM, reality doesn't seem to match your theory. Do they actually remove it from your library anyway?

We accept DRM on art because there's no sacrosanct rule which says art cannot have DRM, and the price is right, same reason we accept DRM on movies.
Steam has key issue too by rsilvergun · 2013-09-25 15:22 · Score: 1

at least with non-Valve games. The 3rd party vendors often run out of keys, and if that happens to you you're out of luck and out whatever you paid. Sometimes they make it right and sometimes the original studio is out of business. If you dispute the transaction on your credit card statement Valve cancels your Steam account, and you lose all the games you bought instead of just one...

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1. Re:Steam has key issue too by Cwix · 2013-09-25 15:36 · Score: 2
  
  I have never heard of anyone running out of keys, is there a story or something that you can point me too?
  
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2. Re:Steam has key issue too by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 19:19 · Score: 0
  
  AFAIK, if you buy a game and cannot launch it, especially in such cases where you can do nothing whatsoever, you can return the game by contacting Steam Support immediately.
3. Re:Steam has key issue too by rsilvergun · 2013-09-27 16:41 · Score: 2
  
  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/126572-Fallout-3-Steam-Keys-Run-Out-Keeps-On-Selling-Anyway-UPDATED Fallout 3 so it eventually got fixed, but google around a little and you'll find cases for lesser known games where it didn't.
  
  I like Steam, I really do, but I also consider everything I bought on it a rental more or less.
  
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Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by aiadot · 2013-09-25 15:49 · Score: 1

My biggest issue with all this SteamOS/Gabecube project is simply marketing and later, maybe a, fragmentation problem. I believe that it will be a successful product (especially for the HTPC crowd) but I don't think it's going to be industry game changer.

First off what is in for devices manufactures? All the game sale and software profits will be going to Valve. The only way a manufacturer will make a profit is if they sell it for a reasonable price. Too bad for game consoles that doesn't work. No matter how good your game console is, if it costs more than $400, it won't be well received. Not only that but the PC hardware business is already surviving on razor thin profit margins(unless you're Apple). I have trouble imagining that the smart companies you'll go through the troubles to develop a product to a virtually unprofitable niche market. In the best case scenario, a huge ass company that can take advantage of the economics of scaling, like Samsung, may successfully provide a profitable product but that is it. Either that, or manufactures may start adding their own bloatware/ADware alongside rival services(GOG/Origin) to their versions of SteamOS in order to cover up some costs.

Second, some people are comparing SteamOS to Android. And while I agree that they look a lot like, there is a critical difference: smartphones are a necessity nowadays, game consoles aren't. Like it or not you will have to buy a smartphone at some point. Lot's of people just buy the cheapest Android they can get. Furthermore, even though Android has around 75% of the market most of the good commercial software is only on the iPhone. If Steam is the Android of gaming, Playstation/Nintendo are the iPhones. The PS3 alone has more titles available for it than the entire Steam library(not counting BC on the PS3 and not counting 10-year old+ retro PC games on Steam).

Finally, marketing. There is one PS4 and one WiiU. Each one has multiple events and shows all over the world, partnerships with stores and tons of AAA exclusive support. Valve will have dozens of consoles and much of the aforementioned fewer perks. It's going to be much harder to sell a Gabecube to the Average Joe than a WiiU/PS4. And the PC crowd will still be building their own PCs (I doubt a Gabecube is going to be cheaper/better than a similar spec'd homemade PC). It's going to be hard as hell to sell those things.

Anyway, I hope they can do well. We costumers need some extra competition in the console market since MS is dropping the ball.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by sharklasers · 2013-09-25 16:09 · Score: 1

You've forgetting the third option (there's always a third option) - pirating. It's DRM-free, which will continue to run despite the DRM vendor disappearing or there's a fault in the backend or network connectivity or your account is disabled due to any number of issues.
I don't tolerate DRM, but I'm not an open-source zealot either. I love me some closed-source software that's nicer to use and more functional than some of the FOSS stuff out there. But I just can't accept DRM. You say we accept DRM on movies. Who's we? I pirate movies because I don't want DRM, but if I stick with a DRM-free diet I basically miss out on everything that's part of modern society culture. Companies HAVE to compete with DRM-free media since pirates will happy provide it if they don't.
It's amazing how many people seem to think Valve will be around forever. I don't have that level of faith, so I want to know that the software I buy can be run without having a mandatory requirement to access (either continuously or very occasionally) some server somewhere to verify I'm able to use the software I paid for. If I can't pay money for something that I can control access to myself, then I don't pay. I've read too many cases of people not being able to play anything because their Steam client's fucked up and offline mode doesn't work during a network disconnectivity, whereas with DRM-free content, it would. AND WE ACCEPT THIS AS NORMAL?!?
We've fallen too far I think in accepting this as reasonable.
Boiler by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-25 16:32 · Score: 0

They should have called it The Boiler.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by interkin3tic · 2013-09-26 02:09 · Score: 1

Piracy has it's own set of problems obviously. If we're going list what could theoretically go wrong with DRM and hold piracy up as the alternative, you should list what could theoretically go wrong with piracy. 1: developers use piracy as an excuse to skip the PC market, a much bigger problem to me than call of duty 3 not being accessible in a decade. And 2. viruses and other malware.

If you're honestly having a hard time understanding it, realize that not everyone values things like you do. When considering a 5 or even 60 dollar game, I don't exactly need to buy it for life. If Valve dissapears in 10 years, the games I play now will still be experiences that are worth it. Faith has little to do with it. I buy games I want to play in the near future.
A Linux console ... LOLWOT by marco.nadal.75 · 2013-09-26 05:14 · Score: 1

I'm skeptical. I would like a set top box to play my media, since I don't have one yet. (The AppleTV and 360 are not compatible enough) and if it can run the latest vidya on my TV... well, that would be great! However-- Since SteamOS would be a modified version of GNU/Linux, only the games that currently support Linux in the Steam Store would run on the box, which means fewer games. Linux ...... 185 Mac ....... 509 Windows..2149 I like the idea of a Steambox that gives developers a standard platform, so the games can be tweaked for best performance. I don't like it that it would limit my choices of games. Developers would not be incentivised to port to SteamOS unless there were a large enough install base. And even if Steambox with its 185 games took off --- entirely possible, if Half Life 3 was an exclusive, it *might* do for the system what Halo did for the XBox --- there is no "shift to Linux" possible for gaming. That is because there is no such thing as "Linux". There is only the infinitely fragmented GNU/Linux miasma with 1000s of incompatible distros. Valve wisely chose a single variant to support (Ubuntu 12.04 LTS). We already have enough compatibility issues with Windows and Mac, which exist in only a few versions, XP/Vista/7/8. GNU/Linux is a million times worse. Steambox will have no effect on Linux market share, as much as the Lintards want to hold the world's lusers hostage to their evolving shitpiles, so that everybody has 100 problems and has to lick their arse in forums to get the simplest of shit working -- it ain't happening. Lusers ain't stupid, people who spent 3 days getting suspend/hibernate working on a 5 year old netbook are just silly. Throw it in the bin already and go do something fun/productive! Software is always lagging hardware. John Carmack bemoans the fact that a PC that is 10x as powerful as a PS3 struggles to keep up, because of all the abstraction layers and drivers and whatnot, JC wants to use a pointer to directly target a pixel but the Windows architecture won't let him. Wouldn't Steambox/Linux be the same or worse? I think the entire Linux graphics subsystem is kludge built on kludge, there should be a way for programmers like JC to get full hardware access without the OS getting in the way.
Have you tried the open source ATI driver? by Shirley+Marquez · 2013-09-26 05:56 · Score: 1

The open source driver for ATI cards has improved by leaps and bounds; on older hardware it now outperforms the closed legacy driver. (It still lags behind on new systems.) It might be just the thing for your old X1600.
Re:Proprietary on top of linux = no control for us by sharklasers · 2013-09-26 18:10 · Score: 1

Piracy has it's own set of problems obviously. If we're going list what could theoretically go wrong with DRM and hold piracy up as the alternative, you should list what could theoretically go wrong with piracy. 1: developers use piracy as an excuse to skip the PC market, a much bigger problem to me than call of duty 3 not being accessible in a decade. And 2. viruses and other malware.
Certainly, and I completely understand where you're coming from. Piracy is definitely not as convenient to the general computer user as something like Steam - at least as far as getting the game is concerned. People will pay for convenience, clearly.

If you're honestly having a hard time understanding it, realize that not everyone values things like you do. When considering a 5 or even 60 dollar game, I don't exactly need to buy it for life. If Valve dissapears in 10 years, the games I play now will still be experiences that are worth it. Faith has little to do with it. I buy games I want to play in the near future.
Sorry for thinking about long-term ramifications about the industry and the way things are going with DRM-locked software. People only seem to care about the here and now these days. I DO still play games from over 10 years ago - sometimes it's due to nostalgia, but other times it's because they were just plain better than what's pumped out these days (possibly because they were more PC-centric, hard to say). Sometimes I use things like source ports to make them look better graphically and run on modern systems (ScummVM, Darkplaces and KMQuakeII come to mind).
Nowadays I always think long-term about anything software or media that I buy. I don't want to get fucked later due to changing circumstances, even if said products are perhaps not as interesting later on down the track. I won't know that until later after all.
Wakeup call.... by Tim12s · 2013-09-27 06:32 · Score: 1

And round about now, someone in microsoft and sony just woke up thinking... f.k.u.c.
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