Slashdot Mirror
New York Subpoenaed AirBnb For All NYC User Data
Daniel_Stuckey writes "The war between New York City and Airbnb is raging on, and the future of the hospitality business hangs in the balance. The city is fighting the startup for breaking local laws against operating an illegal hotel out of your home, worried that hustlers are abusing the online service to turn a profit. To that end, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman just slapped the company with a subpoena to hand over the user data of all New Yorkers who've listed their apartment on the site, the New York Daily News reported today. That's about 225,000 users."
Don'tcha love it that "turning a profit" is here characterized as "abuse"? And to be clear, it's not "the city" in the abstract that has anything against things like AirBnB -- nor is it guests. It's established hotel businesses, which would prefer the current low supply of rooms and the current scheme of regulation which lets *them* profit from the current configuration.
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
We have another quarter-million names for your stop-and-frisk list!
AirBnb, please tell the city to go F itself. If the city has a problem with certain property owners they can request data on those specific owners. The city shouldn't be permitted to go on a fishing expedition to prove a theory.
This is just like the NSA demanding all phone records from Verizon with the possibility that only a few may be terrorists.
Well, on one hand New York City really needs the money. On the other hand, these AirBNB rent-seekers are already well-off (because they [a] live in New York City and [b] could afford SO much extra space that they actually have ROOMS TO RENT) don't need any extra money. These disruptive technologies need to be shut down before they impact the bottom line.
The City of New York likes to wet its beak in everything. No matter what your racket is, as long as it's in cousin Vinny's turf then you gotta pay the man. Or else this - just like in the article - cousin Vinny makes a few connections to find out where you live. Then, you get a threat and either you pay or the enforcers show up at your door to beat some sense into you, Brooklyn-style. I (heart) NY. Why would anyone live anywhere else?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Yes, he can. It is illegal in New York to rent real estate for any length of time without the proper permits and licenses. Listing a room on AirBnB is prima facie evidence that you've broken these laws and easilly rises to the level of probable cause (with an "e").
Am right now 5:20 AM in the morning in Los Angeles in AirBNB HELL!!! The property management company for the building next door has started renting out units on AirBNB, probably not telling the property owner and collecting the difference in rent. Right now there is a huge party going on next door and it started at 3 AM. This is not the first time this has happened. Tenants in the building couldn't park in their own spots because the party guests took them last time. When they complained to management they where told if you pay as much as their paying in rent you can have the spot back. Am sure the cops have been called more then once. Am guessing that the tenets will sue because keeping a peaceful residence is one of major parts of leases. I've also told one or two of them that I am keeping a log and am willing to testify in any court case. Speaking of which am going to call the cops just to have an official record of my complaint.
AirBNB needs to figure this out or be made illegal. End of fucking story. If I get fired from work for being up all night. I will talk to a lawyer about using AirBNB.
If you have a big idea it's likely to ruffle some feathers of legacy players in the space where you're trying to innovate. Increasingly, those players will have purchased favorable legislation that will be used against you if you start luring their customers away with better offerings. If you're located in the US you'll have no effective defense against that kind of shakedown.
Internet-delivered services can be provided from anywhere in the world - it's far safer to base these businesses in an entirely different country if they are going to accept US customers.
The city will say it has probable cause to show that AirBnB is participating in a fraudulent scheme to circumvent hotel regulations and taxes. They need AirBnB's records to show that is the case. This is what subpoenas are for.
Posting the advertisement is evidence of conspiracy, unless you have the requisite license.
The Untouchables
> That's about 225,000 users
It's important you 225,000 let the elected officials know your displeasure at this at the next election. Especially the ones who throw up their hands and say, "I had nothing to do with this!"
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
So in New York the following is illegal:
"Hey, want to crash at my place?"
"Sure, I'll buy you dinner."
THIS is how governments "solve" your problems - by selling themselves to the highest bidder. In this case, the local hotel industry.
Give the government more power and it will be used against you.
And guess what? Saying "everyone needs to pay their fair share of taxes" gives government more power
Taxes. They WILL be used against you.
Can you spell "NSA"? Or "TSA"?
No, that is not illegal. Just like your colleague giving you a cross-country lift in his car if you split the petrol cost is not illegal.
Or going for a flight in your colleague's aeroplane and paying the landing fees.
However, as soon as it crosses the line to advertised and remunerated 'hire for reward' it becomes a regulated activity. If your colleague regularly flies people in his aeroplane and charges a fare, then he has to start obeying.
Respond in print. Use 6pt Brush Script, in green, on red paper.
I refuse to use
Ignore billions in mortgage and other bank fraud, then go after the little people trying to make ends meet.
Yes, he can. It is illegal in New York to rent real estate for any length of time without the proper permits and licenses. Listing a room on AirBnB is prima facie evidence that you've broken these laws and easilly rises to the level of probable cause (with an "e").
So if you list a room for rent on AirBnB, that automatically means that all of your permits and licenses are revoked? I'm sure there are some people who just decided to list a room without going through proper channels, but anybody running a real BnB would have gotten all of those permits and licenses. This article, and apparently most people on slashdot make the assumption that nobody who ever starts a BnB actually obtains the necessary permits.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Try finding a room in Manhattan (that isn't a shithole) for under $200 a night.
Yup, that's exactly why this company is being harassed. The established hotels are enjoying their little collective monopoly that causes the concept of an affordable hotel room in Manhattan to be a pipe dream.
You see things like this (ridiculously high hotel room prices) and become suspicious that there is some sort of "cartel" or organization propping them up. Then you see news articles like that and your thoughts are vindicated. There is so much damn corruption out there...
...barring any newly released sex tapes, heroin possession charges or anything similar.
I'm not sure where de Blasio stands on this issue specifically but somehow I suspect that he's not really going to take a real entrepreneurial tack on it.
NYC has a major affordable housing problem and I'm sure there's affordable housing advocates that would argue that residential property should be residential or at least only usable for residential purposes, which makes some sense from a supply/demand perspective for residential housing and I'd wager that de Blasio is a big supporter of affordable housing initiatives.
Then there's the unions -- he's a democrat and I'm sure the hospitality unions back any initiative that's pro-hotel, and union support is something de Blasio wants.
And then there's the hotel industry generally which is probably not a lobbying entity which can be easily ignored, especially if they can get the unions on their side of an issue.
So it is the already existing profit makers, who are trying to kill a new model of upcoming profit makers... and of course in a democracy there is the possibility of get it done by lobbying.
I'm sick of hearing about your police state bullshit. Why isn't Bloomberg in jail over stop and frisk? Hope your city burns.
Is there a compelling reason why this should be illegal? If someone has extra capacity in their home (couch, spare bedroom, vacancy from being on vacation) then why should the city care? And if landlords are finding that they can make extra money by not being landlords anymore, isn't that a different problem?
Um, although I actually agree that there needs to be more regulation of AirBNB practices in NYC, you don't need a permit to rent real estate. I don't know exactly what differentiates a hotel from an apartment in a multi familiy, but I know I don't need a permit to rent the top floor of my house which has a certificate of occupancy, unless you include that.
NYC should NOT be able to subpoena AirBNB, mostly because it's too big a net. Open that door and they can search every house in a neighborhood because one person was seen selling drugs.
Trying to run a business without paying for protection.
Have you used Airbnb? People are well aware of what they are signing up for -- as a broke and traveling student in my grad school days, I've often crashed in questionable hostels and strangers' couches. This is no different.
People make a rational, informed choice based on their needs and resources available. It's none of the state's business to interfere.
It is a transaction between two people, plain and simple.
...I would observe how New York rules on a given issue, so I would know how NOT to do it.
This article, and apparently most people on slashdot make the assumption that nobody who ever starts a BnB actually obtains the necessary permits.
And what do those people care if NYC subpoenas their user name/address/phone from AirBnB?
They
a) aren't doing anything wrong, they have the permits.
b) they have the permits, so they've already registered their name, address, and phone number in conjunction with the exact activity in question.
city in America/World only new york is it a court deal. The citys money and power they never lose any of these kind of cases. If just once they lost and had to pay all the guest and users of the service for attempting to violate their rights with litigation or some shit this would end. No one can win against the money and power. Perhaps in new york it was better when everything was settled with bullets.
Bureaucracies are inherently resistant to change, especially when a new technology comes along to undermine the assumptions on which those bureaucracies were built. Those bureaucracies’ express mission is to hinder progress. It is our express duty to educate them so they know that the Share Economy is here and is here to stay. People know and the politicians they elect will soon learn that bureaucratic walls to the Share Economy will be torn down as surely as the Berlin Wall was. Using technology to utilize inactive resources is too easy and so welcomed it won't fail. Politicians who stand in the way of progress need to be turned out of office in the next election and new ones who can think should be elected. Eric Schneiderman can go back to chasing ambulances in Westchester County.
And what do those people care if NYC subpoenas their user name/address/phone from AirBnB?
They a) aren't doing anything wrong, they have the permits.
b) they have the permits, so they've already registered their name, address, and phone number in conjunction with the exact activity in question.
Yes, and I'm sure you won't care if the cops pull you over for a random drug test because you don't have any drugs. If you have nothing to hide, then who cares if your privacy is invaded, right?
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Yes, and I'm sure you won't care if the cops pull you over for a random drug test because you don't have any drugs. If you have nothing to hide, then who cares if your privacy is invaded, right?
How on earth is that even close to the same thing?
An example of the same thing would be if the government subpoenaed facebook for a list of users who were all publicly advertising that they had heroine for sale.
And in that subpoena suppose they also pick up a couple facebook accounts who belong to people who work for chemical suppliers who do in fact legally produce and distribute heroine to universities, safe injection sites, research hospitals, and so forth. They have all the permits, keep all their records, their customers are all authorized.
So the government requests their names, sees that they are above board -- who cares. So it maybe audits them to make sure they aren't selling heroine on the side straight to the public. (They were advertising on facebook after all...)
That is not the jack booted thugs detaining you and subjecting you to needles at random. Try to maintain a sense of perspective.