Slashdot Mirror
Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing
An anonymous reader writes with a link to The Huffington Post, which reports "that a Saudi man was sentenced to 2,000 lashes and 10 years in prison for dancing naked on the roof of a car and posting the video online, according to multiple reports. Three other men were also sentenced to three to seven years in jail and hundreds of lashes each for the incident, Agence France-Presse reported, citing Arabic-language paper Al-Sharq. The four men were hit with a number of charges, including "encouraging vice" and violating public morality, according to the report. The prosecutor in the case, which was heard by a judge in Saudi Arabia's conservative Al-Qassem province, reportedly objected to the sentences for being "too lenient," Gulf News notes. The video was reportedly circulated widely on the Internet, but could not be found by The Huffington Post."
It is worth it just to see that.
Did you see just how bad their dancing was? That is worth 2000 lashes.
I get that they have oil, but come on already. This sort of crap should simply not be tolerated by the west. We should not sell them arms or have diplomatic relations with these kinds of states. They abuse women, have a cave man's idea of a criminal justice system, are a theocracy and fund terrorism. What else do they need to do before we decide to stop tolerating their shit?
or Harlem-shaking.
In Soviet Russia, our new overlords are belong to all your base.
In the US you can be murdered just for having the wrong sexual identity or of the wrong race. Until you clean up your act, your media needs to shut their damn mouth and learn some respect.
and 2000 lashes because this particular dude had no business strutting his "stuff" in a porn video
10 years for growing the wrong plant.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy,[69] although, according to the Basic Law of Saudi Arabia adopted by royal decree in 1992, the king must comply with Sharia (that is, Islamic law) and the Quran. The Quran and the Sunnah (the traditions of Muhammad) are declared to be the country's constitution,
wikipedia
Monarchy + theocracy FTW! So who's up for making the USA a christian country? What could possibly go wrong?
Having lived in Saudi everything is very restricted in society. It seems very harsh however.
10 years and 2000 lashes for dancing naked on film...
8 years and 600 lashes for torturing and killing one's own daughter...
Meanwhile, an American was sentenced to 10 years in prison for taking a few dried blossoms out of a bag and smoking them in a pipe. "It's a gateway to the collapse of society," a prosecutor said. "We wish the judge had imposed a longer jail sentence as a deterrent."
It could have been a woman with her face uncovered. Or a woman, period, driving the car naked. The sentence would be death by stoning and/or beheading.
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
There's a small difference between random citizens breaking the law in doing that, and the system of justice doing it itself. You should shut your own mouth.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Yet they are the most valuable allies of yours in the peninsula... shame on you USA.
You've got enough brain-dead biggots in your country to make it as bad any backwards theocracy.
In Soviet Russia, our new overlords are belong to all your base.
The problem is thus:
Almost every state sells arms or has diplomatic relations with every other state. Women are abused everywhere, almost everywhere there's a cave man's idea of a criminal justice system in place, many people are deeply religious, and many support one form of violence or another. What else do we need to do before we decide to stop tolerating our shit?
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
You would demand the same thing if you saw a video of me dancing naked on my rooftop.
With or without CowboyNeal.
Naked dancing objectifies the dancers. We have to put a stop to it now, before a generation grows up thinking hairy Arabs are just playthings that dance for their pleasure. That's why I too support the Social Justice movement.
I'm more afraid of the Christians enacting shit like this.
Technoli
He deserves it 'cause he was stupid. He should've worn a veil. Then nobody could recognize him AND he'd be obeying Islamic law ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqJDuZIcQ34
Much better production values, and better acting.
Yes the link is Safe for work.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
If he would have been forcing himself on a woman he would have probably gotten off the hook and she'd be divorced and punished.
What have we learned here? life is not fair, people are cruel and most of the world is still run by primitives.
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
Eh, it's still an extreme comparison. This is a person who is having their life ruined, suffering literal torture, and all for the sake of one interpretation of one book.
I don't think Christianity is an accurate understanding of the universe, and I don't think it's even close to an ideal approach to morality, but comparing people who are afraid of learning something to those who torture and imprison others on the basis of their religion isn't fair.
Interesting that you brought that up. While I'm very much against the "justice" system in Saudi Arabia, the case of that guy was blown out of proportion. According to this site he is/was a drug addict (I wonder what inspired him to do drugs), and he never was a scholar.
In any case, if he is found guilty he should receive the death sentence in an Islamic criminal justice system. As for this case, I'm not familiar with it, but what I do know is that prison sentences are rather rare in Islamic criminal justice. And FWIW, I don't see any justification for such a punishment at all.
$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
Human rights are not judged according to cultural relativism. Sharia law is a violation of human rights, regardless of the religion of the victim.
> Yes, there are hate crimes... but usually someone caught doing a "fag bash" will get a 10+ year
> sentence just due to the pressure put on the judge and DA by the press and other groups.
But of course, part of that is because violent crime isn't generally all that punishable itself without "hate crimes". We had a prosecutor arguing to extend hate crimes legislation to homeless people.
Why? Because a homeless man was beat within an inch of his life by two guys for kicks, and because there was nothing stolen, no home to invade, and no defined hate crime, they were out in a couple of months...for coming just short of murder.
Seemed to me at the time the problem was not that homeless people need a special designation but that violent crime is poorly differentiated and there are gaping holes in the law that they are now trying to fix....with duct tape.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
I think it's entirely fair. The only difference between these two groups is the book they've chosen. It took a lot of work and loss of life to chill the Christians down to a point where they are almost tolerable, but they have everything they need to become (again) what the Muslims are today.
Is it Muslims that enacted abortion laws that require medical rape with a sonar to make women feel more guilty for doing it?
You don't have the same unrestricted right to kill babies everywhere in the USA, if that's what you're asking. That is what you're asking, right?
Based on what?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I think it's entirely fair. The only difference between these two groups is the book they've chosen.
Nope, the difference, as can be seen throughout the world, is poverty. Cultures with a lot of poverty take an extreme approach to enforcing morality. Christians still execute gay people in Uganda. Turkey is a mostly Muslim country without these kinds of extreme civil rights abuses.
It took a lot of work and loss of life to chill the Christians down to a point where they are almost tolerable, but they have everything they need to become (again) what the Muslims are today.
And this is a brash and unsupported argument.
Book: Acts. Chapter 5. Ananias converted to Christianity and was told to sell all his posessions and give all the money to the commune. Instead, he gave only half the money, and kept the other half.
A priest asked him about this, and he lied and said "I gave all the money." In punishment, God instantly killed him then and there. The same thing happened to his wife shortly thereafter.
What happened to all the forgiveness and compassion?
This is a major problem with the Bible: it presents a very inconsistent image of God. Sometimes he is over-the-top forgiving, and other times he is over-the-top brutal in punishment. There is a distinct lack of consistency, leaving his followers to wonder when their best efforts at pleasing Him will just make Him go irate again.
"Mysterious ways" does not capture it. "Sociopathic ways" is more accurate. I really, really hope the Bible is not accurate in its description of God.
You are so retarded that nothing can save you...
Killing babies is illegal, but irrelevant to this discussion because we're talking about abortion, which is something entirely different.
Oh for fucks sake please stop engaging in such false equivalencies. I know you appended the smiley in an effort to make a joke of this, and this isn't aimed at you personally. Far too many people really think it isn't that bad, and we shouldn't say anything because we're not perfect either, and your post (meant in jest or not) feeds into that notion.
The United States may have put an inexperienced African-American in office ahead of a vastly more qualified female, but our gender (and other issues) are miniscule compared to how women are treated in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and other places.
* Women are routinely murdered for stepping out of line, in despicable, dishonorable acts referred to by their perpetrators as "honor killings."
* Women who offend the sensibilities of the men of their family are often locked up for life in a room with no light, no sound, and no outside contact beyond a tray of food being shoved under a door, a practice that makes solitary confinement in the US and other western states look like a picnic in comparison. The result is almost universal madness on the part of the victim, usually within a relatively short time. This practice is so common and entrenched that there is a term for this facility, the "woman's room" (not to be confused with a restroom or loo)
* victims of rape are routinely charged and convicted of fornication, adultery, etc. for having the audacity of being a victim, and imprisoned or worse (see above). Worse, they are convicted merely on the word of a few men, while female testimony is dismissed (by law) and not considered as a counterweight. In many places, they are stoned to death.
* Even women who manage to escape all of this and are considered "upstanding" by the psychotic standards of the culture can, at best, expect to be buried in the desert with no record of their passing (no marker, no death record, nothing). This after a life in servitude and bondage.
* Women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to leave the house without the company of a man, even if the man is a boy-child.
* Women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to drive, on pain of severe punushment.
and the list goes on. Women drowned in front of their entire families in the family swimming pool. Women disfigured by acid for refusing the advances of a suiter, and so on and so on, ad nauseum.
People should read the book "Princess" by Jean Sasson, about the nightmare of being a Saudi Princess, arguably the most privileged and sheltered position a woman can occupy in that society. There are also several excellent, Iranian-made movies that depict, describe, and criticize the epidemic of female-stonings in that society, often with little or no evidence beyond the word of a husband keen to ditch his wife for a prettier woman, e.g. The Stoning of Soraya M.
It's appalling, and we in the west have betrayed everything we purport to stand for, year after year and decade after decade, by cozying up to such regimes and abusive societies.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Think of it this way...
Moslem fanatics are like ebola. They don't just kill you, they kill you in the most spectacularly gruesome way possible. Christian fanatics are like the clap; they don't kill you, they just ruin your sex life.
Based on that, you'd think that I'd be more worried about ebola. Except that in my country, there is no ebola, but there is a real risk of catching the clap. So taking precautions against ebola would be a pointless, but precautions against the clap make a lot of sense.
Christians were in western Europe for the entire XX century, and it was time of great development and prosperity (not counting atheist-based nazism and communism).
Now muslims and arab immigrants are destroying this wealth and peace within literally years.
And they breed! Fast!
In 20 years they will be majority and will change Europe countries into shitholes. Literally, with shit lying on the streets - just go visit some of their ghettos to see the future of the entire country.
So shut up you leftist traitor.
The 'ebola' epidemic is just waiting to break out and kill everyone. You are just to blind to see it. Leftist traitor.
Wouldn't that mean that Nigeria would have the highest murder rate in the world if that was true?
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
The main reason the US's murder rate is so high is because people don't respect other people and don't have issues killing other people in spite of our supposed religiosity.
FTFY.
[1]: The main reason the US's murder rate is so high is the availability of firearms.
Switzerland has just as many guns and far less murders. Mexico has less and far more murders.
Realistically the US's murder rate is heavily influenced by many cultural factors and has a lot to do with gang and drug related violence. When you take those out the US isn't all that different. Plus while actual murders are higher in the US if you look at other violent crime (rape, muggings, etc) the US is ahead of many European countries.
Overall this issue is far more complex than the simple minded "Guns are bad, mmmkay." response.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Apparently, this crime is more serious than the torture and murder of a five year old, which only got 8 years and 600 lashes: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/07/world/meast/saudi-arabia-girl-death/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook
-- Support a free market in the field of government
Nope, the difference, as can be seen throughout the world, is poverty. Cultures with a lot of poverty take an extreme approach to enforcing morality. Christians still execute gay people in Uganda. Turkey is a mostly Muslim country without these kinds of extreme civil rights abuses.
Perhaps it has something more to do with this:
Turkey is a secular state with no official state religion; the Turkish Constitution provides for freedom of religion and conscience. ref
As far as Uganda goes with their "kill homosexuals bill", kindda makes my brash argument more supported. Thanks.
Fetuses aren't babies.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Much more enlightened than Saudi Arabia's: 21 years in prison for killing 77 people. Breivik agrees!
make it as bad any backwards theocracy.
I'm sorry, I hate bible-thumpers as much as anyone, but that's taking it way too far. If you think the U.S. has ANYTHING like the religious oppression you will find in Saudi Arabia, then you obviously haven't been there. Give me a call when the U.S. has an official, government-sanctioned bible-thumper police force that cuts peoples hands off for stealing, or beats women for leaving their houses. Call me when the U.S. bans all non-Christian places of worship, or starts beheading people for adultery.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
destroying this wealth and peace
Describing 20th century Europe as peaceful is, um well, peculiar.
You could go to jail for 10 years for posting a comment online which someone decides is a terrorist threat.
And it never occurs to ask you what separates a Turkey from a Saudi Arabia?
I think you'll find Nazi way based on the very Catholic Hilter and his SS team. Nazism was certainly not atheistic. And nazi germany became very developed and prosperous up to 1939.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
You can say that fetuses aren't babies, just like your intellectual forebears said that Negros were only three fifths of a US person, and both sentences could be considered true by definition, because language is very flexible and these are just words. Sometimes society adopts particular language and defines what words mean to suit their own agenda. However, the flexibility of language doesn't change reality. When Dr. Gosnell snipped the necks of those tiny little people (who happened to be black) and threw them in the trash, that was not OK. And when 19th century America denied civil rights to blacks of all ages, that was not OK either. It's easy to claim with postmodernists that morality is relative, but sometimes the gross immorality of our society is encroaching and gaping at us in a way that's really hard to ignore.
It always amazes me how so many liberals have nothing but hate for Republicans but are so passionate in their calls for tolerance in defending Muslims.
This actually happened at work, so, we're in the break room having a few beers and a discussion starts about homosexuals coming out of the closet. A Calvinist actually says to a Black Guy ," homosexuals should not be allowed to vote" and the Black Guy agrees with him. The crazy thing is, neither one of them seemed to realize that not too long ago the Black Guy couldn't vote, for the exact same reason the Calvinist didn't want homosexuals voting, fear!
We have a fitting quote of the day today.
"Most men, when they think they are thinking, are merely rearranging their prejudices." - Knute Rockne
Pretty sure a human body would be reduced to ground meat after 2000 lashes.
Who automatically scream the west is of course worse. Because as everyone knows the US is a medieval theocratic death chamber where this sort of thing in fact takes place 1000's of times a day. By law.
GOD: Arthur! Arthur, King of the Britons! Oh, don't grovel! If
there's one thing I can't stand, it's people groveling.
ARTHUR: Sorry--
GOD: And don't apologize. Every time I try to talk to someone it's
"sorry this" and "forgive me that" and "I'm not worthy". What are you
doing now!?
ARTHUR: I'm averting my eyes, oh Lord.
GOD: Well, don't. It's like those miserable Psalms-- they're so
depressing. Now knock it off!
Clearly Islam and Christianity are darn near identical here. Good thing people are smart enough to lump them together.
WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO STOP ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER ITS MURDER OR NOT AND JUST GET USED TO WEARING FUCKING CONDOMS. It doesn't have to be "murder" to be irresponsible. PLEASE NOTE: I don't care if you have a billion abortions. I'm going to take care of me and mine, and I'll take care of you too if you ask me. But please, stop with the lip service. Talking about it is not the same as doing something about it. Take your views, write them down, and put them somewhere out of my sight.
I believe in karma, which is why, when I do something bad to people, I assume they deserve it.
Slavery was not abolished in Saudi Arabia until the 1960s. This was NOT a formality of a situation that was true for decades earlier. Almost every powerful male in Saudi Arabia owned rape slaves until this date.
The most famous Saudi is Bandar 'Bush'- so-called because he is a personal friend of the Bush crime family (the one that gave you Yanks THREE presidents, the third yet to take office). Bandar had a rape slave as a mother. And by rape slave, I MEAN rape slave- a woman purchased by his father for the single purpose of RAPING.
On Wikipedia, the usual zionist goons constantly erase the fact that Bandar's mother was a rape slave. Israel and Saudi Arabia are, of course, Siamese twins, and both receive absolute support and loyalty from those that rule the USA.
Saudi Arabia is NOT run by Muslims. The religion of the rulers of Saudi is actually a form of Judaism, and is one of the reasons Saudia Arabia and Israel are so closely linked. Of course, the people of Saudi Arabia are mostly Muslim by heritage, but the form of society they suffer under has NOTHING to do with Islam or the natural inclination of the ordinary people.
Saudi Arabia is kept by British, American, Israeli and French influence as a source of Islamic extremism that drives depraved, racist, violent thuggish movements into the hearts of nearby Muslim nations, denying these nations the ability to function as modern democratic states. If any nation with a Muslim heritage DARES to try to escape Saudi controlled theocracy, America and Britain ensure this nation is utterly destroyed (see Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Syria and Iran for examples).
The Saudi elite follow NONE of the rules of their nation. They drink, gamble, use prostitutes, and generally piss all over the holy books of Islam. Meanwhile they fund schools of ultra religious extremism (identical to those found in Israel and Pakistan) that create the vile 'religious' goons that keep the ordinary people in their place.
Today, Saudi Arabia still has tens of thousands of rape slaves, but they are foolish migrant workers who lose all rights once they enter Saudi Arabia. While technically, treating these workers is illegal, Saudi Arabia uses RELIGIOUS law in place of civil and criminal law, which means the word of a master ALWAYS outweighs the word of a servant. Declaring yourself a victim of sexual assault in Saudi Arabia, for instance, is a self-confession of 'illegal' sexual activity, unless you can find FOUR witnesses to the rape.
Filthy filthy shills, posing as citizens of this depraved nation, will attempt to deny what is written above. They MAY point to cases where Westerners have received something approaching true justice, but this is a farce. Of course the filth that 'rule' Saudi Arabia do what the British and American governments tell them to do. If a citizen from Western nation is being mistreated, and the case reaches the attention of the public in the West, Bandar and the other Saudi depravities bend over backwards to seem reasonable.
However, most people that go to Saudi are from third-world nations, whose governments have no influence or power to protect their citizens. Migrant female workers from these nations, for instance, may NOT leave Saudi Arabia until they have been given forced pregnancy tests. If they are found to be pregnant, they are flogged (and I mean in the same brutal way slaves were flogged in the USA) and imprisoned. The doctors and nurses that conspire in these crimes against Humanity are frequently from the West, and are NEVER struck-off for engaging in such sickening, abusive and illegal (by UN conventions) acts.
Saudi Arabia does NOT simply have a culture different from our own. Saudi Arabia was created by the USA and UK. The perverted cult that controls Saudi Arabia was empowered EXCLUSIVELY by the USA, and has no popular support whatsoever. The evil of Saudi Arabia is entirely a post-war creation of the West power bloc to ensure no socialist unity arises from the nations of the Middle East.
Political activists in n
You've got enough brain-dead biggots in your country to make it as bad any backwards theocracy.
Oh, the irony. It looks like there's at least one in your country, who's bigoted against both Americans and against anyone who isn't atheist.
Have you seen how atheist Russia treats homosexuals, bigot? Bigotry has nothing to do with religion.
Free Martian Whores!
If I believed that someone was actually killing babies in this country, I'd do anything in my power to stop them. Anything.
You seem to believe that, and yet do nothing. Either you don't believe what you're spewing, or you are a coward.
I thought the death of Jesus was supposed to cleanse everyone of their sins....or at least those who convert, right? Wouldn't that include Ananias? Your message of contracts with life-as-forfeit clauses is not only unbiblical, but it directly contradicts the central (and Biblical) message of forgiveness that was the *entire point* of Jesus' crucifixion.
Are you just making this stuff up as you go along? Do you actually believe that what you are saying makes any sense at all?
Have you seen how atheist Russia treats homosexuals, bigot? Bigotry has nothing to do with religion.
I thought that had mostly to do with sexual insecurity. Someone being very worried about their own sexuality. Real men are not afraid of gay people, Mr. Putin.
That Saudi Arabia in particular and islam in general (and christianity for that matter) have a huge problem with both men and women expressing their human animal nature.
It's almost as if they don't realize or accept the most basic of truths; that we are animals, born naked, due to the instinct-driven activities of naked animals. Religion, on these issues, is a psychological problem, with a strong denial of reality aspect.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Well if it's anything like a Welshman and a Sheep, then it would be a crowbar.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
That's like, a couple of times the punishment for being raped.
As violent as it was, it was far less violent than the centuries prior to it.
Technoli
..says poster "Pope".
Well played.
Many European countries have a broader definition of crimes and utilize different reporting metrics rendering comparisons inherently flawed.
A few peoples torture vs a country forcing ignorance on all of its citiZens is hard to compare.
Whilst I deplore extremism, I Also deplore people water boarded (as supported by some govts), wholesale invasion of privacy of just about everyone on the planet (by some govts), indefinite detainment without being charged (by some govts), and death threats against whistle blowers (by some politicians of some govts).
It's sad how the US has become, isn't it?
And yes, some called for Assange to be taken out...
You can say that fetuses aren't babies
OK: fetuses aren't babies. I guess we need to define what a "baby" is, don't we? Google returns this definition:
a very young child, esp. one newly or recently born.
So, what's a child?
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.
Below the age of puberty. What is the age of a fetus? As a society, we don't even assign an age to a fetus, do we? We start keeping track of age from the point of birth. A fetus does not have an age until it is born and becomes a baby. The day after a baby is born, how old is it? It's a 1-day old baby. It's not a 9-month old baby.
If you really want to talk about language, look at how people refer to the age of a fetus. When most people ask a pregnant woman about something like the age of the fetus, they ask questions like "how far along are you?" "When are you due?" They're not asking questions about the fetus, they're asking about the mother. The fetus isn't a person yet.
Our history has been very clear about what we consider the start of a life - we consider a life to begin when a baby is born. A person's age is not tracked from the time of conception, it is tracked from the time of birth (and this is regardless of how late or early the birth was, or how developed the baby was when it was born). You don't claim a tax dependent from the moment you knock up a woman, you get a dependent when the baby is born. When a woman has a stillbirth or miscarriage, there is generally not a homicide investigation or funeral or death certificate. It was a life that never even started.
So, clearly we have decided that a fetus is not a baby. Why should all of that change because some politicians want to convince the religious segments of society to vote for them?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
You seem to believe that, and yet do nothing. Either you don't believe what you're spewing, or you are a coward.
Hypotheticals are cheap. I hate the fact that gays are executed in Iran, but I'm not at the moment willing to sacrifice myself to travel over there and make a futile effort to do something about it. I applaud your statement that if you were pro-life then you would go to jail for your beliefs. But it isn't worth a whole lot, as such statements go.
When most people ask a pregnant woman about something like the age of the fetus, they ask questions like "how far along are you?" "When are you due?" They're not asking questions about the fetus, they're asking about the mother. The fetus isn't a person yet.
Maybe you and/or your spouse have never actually been pregnant. Otherwise you would know that this is nonsense. Of course people do quite often say "when is your baby due?" or "how far along is your baby?" During the pregnancy, medical professionals almost always refer to the fetus as a baby when talking to the expectant parents. And during the birth it's the same.
Glad to clear that up for you. Regardless, the name doesn't matter. A late term fetus is a small human being with the same right to life as you and me.
Someone, somewhere, right now, is killing a baby in your country. Go.
The times they did?
Are you saying the world is a place that with the proper amount of money you can have someone else not do anything and let you get away with anything?
No?
Really?
This is happening today?
Chris Christie 2016!!
A late term fetus is a small human being with the same right to life as you and me.
That is certainly one opinion, even if you want to state it as a fact. A fact is that we as a society do not assign an age to any fetus that has not been born, and they are not legally recognized as a person until they have been born. The birth certificate shows as much. The major exception to this is the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which goes out of its way to define a fetus as a legal person for the purpose of allowing it to be a victim of murder if the mother was killed. 36 states recognize a fetus as a crime victim for the purpose of homicide. The law also goes out of its way to specify that abortion is not murder.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
once again we have proof that these losers dont know how to live.... why the hell does the reste of humanity put up with this barbaric way of life. I say NUKE THEM ALL and we will finally have world peace!
Why are you being so calm, rational, and informative in this debate? ;) Cheers.
WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO STOP ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER ITS MURDER OR NOT AND JUST GET USED TO WEARING FUCKING CONDOMS.
Yeah all those rape victims should be more responsible and have their rapists wear condoms first before they are violated.
In order for Justice to actually be just, the punishment must fit the crime. Lying about how much money you have is simply not a very harmful crime, no matter who one lies to. Being arrogant and prideful about how much one has given to one's community is also just not that big a deal.
The death penalty is usually reserved for people who actually murder people (like Paul, for example, who was forgiven).
Of course one could say that God has the authority to do what God wants. The issue here isn't about authority though, it is about consistency. The Bible says several times that God is just, with a healthy dose of mercy and love on the side. We know what these words mean. If the Bible describes God this way, and then claims that God takes actions which directly contradict this description, then we are forced to say that the Bible is wrong on one count or the other.
Either God is Just and Merciful, OR God imposes extremely brutal punishments for relatively harmless transgressions. One OR the other, you can't have it both ways.
Switzerland has just as many guns and far less murders.
No they do not. They have rifles under lock and key and every single bullet has to be accounted for.
For something to be a "goddamn" anything, don't you have to believe in God and in divine punishment (i.e. retribution)?
Sergeant D had it right: Warning, NSFW, loud swear-y and offensive music!
Stick Men
But how do you report to your husband (if you're allowed to leave the house at all) without a cell?
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
Christians used to do this kind of thing and they still would if they could get away with it.
You mean to tell me that someone is going to decide not to go on a shooting spree for fear of the paperwork afterwards?
Here's a hint: if you do something wrong with a gun here in the United States you get arrested too. What they're always saying is that the AVAILABILITY of the guns are the problem, and having to "account" for bullet usage doesn't decrease that availability.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
And it never occurs to ask you what separates a Turkey from a Saudi Arabia?
If trying to do it with the least possible number of border crossings, yet still remaining on dry land, the answer is "An Iraq"
Just my $0.03 (At current exchange rates, my £0.02 is worth more than your $0.02)
I cannot find where the video was originally posted in any of the articles. It would seem important to know that; given that it is on Slashdot. Otherwise, why is this posted here? How is this news for nerds?
...is the fact that while Americans condemn Islamic barbarity, their own society is quite literally the most degenerate in human history.
The emphasis is different, of course. Islam focuses on preservation of the collective, or society, at the expense of the individual. America focuses on the preservation of the individual, at the expense of the collective.
Both are imbalanced; but what I find distressing is the fact that, as usual, Americans are only capable of identifying what is wrong with other cultures, rather than acknowledging the fact that, in many cases, entirely equally pathological elements exist within their own.
You might not have judges handing out sentences like this, no; but you do have school and shopping center shootings. The end result is inhumanity, either way.
If that's the law and you know that's the punishment, don't do it.
Campaigning to change the law and punishments is probably a good idea as with many laws it doesn't really matter much in the scheme of thing I would have thought.
Learn respect for the country of an Anonymous Coward? Apparently you lack one or both of the following:
1. Perspective
2. Sarcasm
You mean to tell me that someone is going to decide not to go on a shooting spree for fear of the paperwork afterwards?
You fail to see that often murders start by someone pulling out a gun just to scare someone. You couldn't do this in Switzerland. First because it is a rifle, second because you would have to break the government seal to load your rifle and then you would have to explain to your senior officer why the seal is broken.
It does.
If not storing your gun and bullets securely was a punishable crime, you would really make sure you lock them properly and that nobody (including your kids, spouse, brothers sisters etc) can get them. Say if somebody shots somebody with a gun or bullet that was stolen from you and it turns out that you didn't store them properly, you get your share of jail time.
How much this will decrease availability depends on how big of a problem gun stealing is to begin with. Have no stats on that about US.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
While most westerners would agree this is, in a word, harsh -- it's still a matter of perspective.
Lots of countries don't have death penalties or life imprisonment, but we sure do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment#Overview_by_jurisdiction
You might get 10 years in Saudi Arabia for violating public morality, where you might only get a fine here for the same thing. On the other hand, murder in the US might get you life without parole, but murder in Portugal can only get you 25 years.
While our morals might differ - they're always going to seem "right" to the people who's morals they are. Not every Saudi agrees with "Saudi morals," and not every US citizen agrees with "US morals; but we all have a moral code that seems right to us.
Is where you're getting in trouble. Guns represent a need that is undesirable. Finding other ways to mitigate or negate that need is of interest. The misuse of the tool is common. Switzerland has better gun control and as you point out, people still have guns. Perhaps we should too.
Terrorist mastermind "harvestsun" was apprehended by a SWAT team of 30 this afternoon at his compound of evil after a posting on the techno-anarchist-leftist-satanist website Slashdot indicated his willingness to kill your grandmother and eat her soul. And the governor's dog had puppies. More at eleven.
They weren't even naked, just topless.
Topless men aren't really that exiting.
I don't understand how you can think that society does not assign ages to fetuses. One poster already pointed out that it is just as common for people to ask "how far along is the baby?" versus "how far along are you?". Doctors routinely refer to fetal ages during check-ups.
Or maybe your "as a society" qualification means we don't do it from a legal standpoint. (With the exception you pointed out.) Well, when my wife had a miscarriage ("when the baby [fetus] miscarried"?), the fetal death certificate listed the approximate age of the child. (18 weeks.) You may call that just another exception, but to me, it sounds like your rule is not as universal as you would like us to believe.
Birth is a much more convenient and obvious demarcation. Date of conception is more difficult to pin down since it is not necessarily the same day as intercourse, and there may have been multiple acts that could have conceived the child. Besides: who honestly wants to think of the day that Mom & Dad `did it`? But just because birth is the convenient marker doesn't mean we can ignore or downplay what came before.
Ah, "personhood". That magical, philosophical demarcation that allows legal systems to treat some human beings one way and other human beings another... despite the fact that they are all human beings. No thanks; I'll let science be my guide instead of relying on the philosophy of the day. (Such philosophies being that Black are "property" and not a "person"; that the mentally handicapped are not "persons" and can thus be disposed of, et cetera.)
It's not really killing if it was never really alive in the first place
In the Islamic system, the penalty for murder is not death penalty, but qisas - where the relatives of the victim can kill the murderer, but can also forgive him and take monetary compensation instead.
Fetuses are babies???
That's terrible. Every time a man rides a horse, jogs, hops in a hot-tube, masturbates or has a wet-dream, babies are destroyed.
It doesn't matter that they're not yet in the womb. They are just babies. You are probably aborting one now.
You, who condemn women for abortions, are aborting babies all the time, and for that, I say shame, shame, shame.
How dare you stop a baby from being born from your testicles, especially when our over populated earth needs another,
and you've done such a great job in making all of earth's people as prosperous as you!
May shame, guilt, and all of the pretend forces of hell be forced into your butt-hole, while your religion is shoved down your throat, while a good amount of bull shit from your local politician and your own self-righteous sophistry cause you to vomit on your unborn children that are still dead in your bed or underwear.
I agree that everyone has a right to life.
So do all the starving children in the world. Yet, I have not heard you say a single thing about that. Go figure.
I have an idea. The next time you feel self righteous, give your alms to a homeless person on the street,
not to just any homeless person, rather, give your alms to the one you despise the most,
then tell your preacher/priest that you gave your alms to this person, and see if he/she agrees with your action.
I'll flip a coin; The preacher who is sincere will praise you.
The one who is not sincere will despise you, and admonish you to bring your future alms to them.
Let's go back to the coin.
Einstein said, God doesn't play with dice, but Quantum Mechanics says she does.
Is the argument over whether God plays with dice a more prescient matter than "the right to life"?
I leave this up to you.
However, remember that if you don't accept evolution, you're not accepting how God made you human from dirt,
and you don't understand that your "right to life" is really a flip of the coin.
Don't believe me? Ask a black hole. You'll get the answer before you've asked the question.
I'd say what separates a Turkey from a Saudi Arabia is a Welshman, a sheep, and a crowbar.
No offense to the Welsh. The Irish and Scots wore Kelts too, and they prayed as hard for their sins.
But, by their stones and sheep, Rome made very little dent in Ireland and Scotland.
Or, maybe they preferred wooly quiet sheep to loud, looting hairy Romans ???
Indeed, I stand corrected. I wanted to point out that the sentence of the court has no basis.
$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
I don't know anybody who tries to stop rape victims from getting abortions. It's kind of asinine that you would even bring rape into this, when you could safely assume that I'm not expecting people to control things that are, by the nature of the crime, uncontrollable.
I believe in karma, which is why, when I do something bad to people, I assume they deserve it.
then it can get a fucking job and support itself like everybody else.
next you'll be saying it has a right to free food and free housing and a slave to wipe its arse. free education too, probably.
fucking communist!
Are these the same Nazis that had the phrase "Gott Mit Uns" (God With Us) on their belt buckles?
Technoli