Bell Canada To Collect User Data For Advertising

If you don't like it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:22 · Score: 1, Funny

then start your own ISP.

Wait, does Canada have Republicans?

Re:If you don't like it by Mitchell314 · 2013-10-22 07:39 · Score: 1

Barriers to entry, do you understand it?

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Re:If you don't like it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:40 · Score: 1

Unfortunately they more or less have a government backed monopoly on the infrastructure.
Dunno how this will effect the competitors which more or less are resellers.
Re:If you don't like it by CastrTroy · 2013-10-22 08:09 · Score: 2

The problem as I see is is that the lines are owned by Bell (or Rogers in the case of cable). There are many independent ISPs, but they all run through the infrastructure of Bell or Rogers. If your internet connection doesn't work, apart from basic trouble shooting (reset modem, check settings), the independent ISPs have to ask Rogers/Bell to fix the problem for them. You can guess how fast Bell/Rogers will do this. I've been toying with the idea of going with TekSavvy (a popular indie ISP), but all the people I know who have switched (not many, but still quite a few people), have had multi-day outages because they were unable to have the problem fixed directly by their ISP. Until this type of problem is fixed, they're Indie ISPs can't offer a reasonable level of service.

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Re:If you don't like it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:19 · Score: 3, Interesting

Bull,
I have been with smaller ISP's in ontario for 20+ years now, I agree that all the data goes through their pipes, but multi day service outages haven't ever happened to me or anyone I know. Actually Bell / Rogers has 24 hours to fix it once it's gone up from the ISP and they usually do quicker than that.
I am with ViaNet out of Sudbury, I live in Oshawa (a long distance away) and the only service interruptions I have ever had at 3 business locations and my house have been because I am a moron and forgot to pay my bill for 5 months.
Re:If you don't like it by CastrTroy · 2013-10-22 08:34 · Score: 2

Glad you're getting better service then the people I know. I live in Ottawa, so my experiences and those of people I know may be different than yours. If I knew people with experiences like yours in my area, I'd be more likely to switch.

For TekSavvy, with Cable, they have to send an email to Rogers when something needs fixing. Then there's a full day for them to respond to that email. Sometimes it gets fixed with that first email, but sometimes it doesn't. The only communication channel between the two is email. I know a guy who was without internet for 2 weeks, because there was a problem with the lines. They kept insisting the lines were fine, but they weren't as was proven by the fact that the problem promptly disappeared after they finally replaced the lines.

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Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:If you don't like it by supertrooper · 2013-10-22 08:37 · Score: 1

I have cable internet with Distributel (over Rogers network) and last year I had an outage that lasted around 2 weeks. It was exactly like that. Rogers didn't give a crap about fixing the problem. They do this on purpose, which actually makes me hate them even more. Same with Bell Canada. I hate these companies. They received government subsidies from our sweet tax dollars to build their infrastructure. Now they are simply robbing Canadians with their high service fees and crappy service. As long as I have the choice I will never give them money.
Re:If you don't like it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:44 · Score: 1, Funny

Barriers to entry, do you understand it?
Nope, he's a mexican.
Re:If you don't like it by hazah · 2013-10-22 08:49 · Score: 1

And for an added bonus, Bell is currently taking Canadians to court because they don't like the rules we make them play by. Guess who's footing that bill...
Re:If you don't like it by currently_awake · 2013-10-22 08:51 · Score: 2

We have the conservative party. They are a right wing political party roughly equivalent to the Democrats.
Re:If you don't like it by Mashiki · 2013-10-22 08:59 · Score: 3, Informative

Actually Bell / Rogers has 24 hours to fix it once it's gone up from the ISP and they usually do quicker than that.
Actually according to the TPIA agreements that most of the other ISP's have it's 48 hours, in fact it got so bad not all that long ago that the delays for repairs from Tek to Rogers were in the 7 day range. CNOC has recently filed with the CRTC to fix the TPIA issues and issues to repair, as well as long ticket repair delays. And this is happening across the spectrum, not just with Tek, or Velcom, or Start, but everyone DSL and cable, and getting screwed over.
If you're Canadian, you should write a letter to the CRTC. Information on it can be found here.
Myself, I've been with Tek back in Ontario for 3 years. I had one two day outage thanks to rogers breaking the routing tables, while doing a node update. Tek gave me the two days back discounted, I'm out in Alberta until December doing a deployment for a small town and the only thing I can get here is LTE for internet, because Telus refuses to upgrade the number of ports available. As a fun point, that's been on-going for 4 years, if you move in this city--you can't move your DSL with you either.

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Re:If you don't like it by phoenix_rizzen · 2013-10-22 09:04 · Score: 0

There are many independent ISPs, but they all run through the infrastructure of Bell or Rogers.
Except when it runs through the infrastructure for Telus, Shaw, NorthWestTel, SaskTel, the fibre ISPs on the West Coast, CableTron (I think, whatever it is that Quebec has), the maritimes telcos, etc. There's a hell of a lot more to the telecommunications industry in Canada than just Bell and Rogers. That may be all you poor saps in Ontaria have; but there's more to Canada than just Ontario (as much as you may not like to think so).
Re:If you don't like it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 09:10 · Score: 0

In Toronto the big ISPs are notorious for this... Like going to do maintenance on a hub and 'accidentally' disconnecting TekSavvy subscribers. I've heard multiple people experience outages like this, where for no apparent reason, people get disconnected, and it takes a call and a visit by a tech to get it back up.
Re:If you don't like it by S.O.B. · 2013-10-22 10:16 · Score: 1

I've had a TekSavvy DSL line for 6 or 7 years now and in that time I've had two outages and one performance issue. The outages were resolved in under 6 hours and the performance issue in about 12 hours.
Their support people really know what they're talking about and although they follow a script, like any call centre, they actually understand and don't just read from it. And even though they don't officially support Linux they also don't run they other way when you mention it.

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Re:If you don't like it by snowraver1 · 2013-10-22 11:55 · Score: 1

I had teksavvy for a couple weeks, but ended up having to cancel because Telus has old rickety phone lines in my area and so I could only get a high latency interleaved DSL connection. The ten savvy help desk is/was staffed by high quality personnel. It's really too bad the Telus has such shit lines...

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Re:If you don't like it by tqk · 2013-10-22 12:13 · Score: 1

We have the conservative party. They are a right wing political party roughly equivalent to the Democrats.
We have a parliamentary democracy. In a majority government situation, they are generally every bit as autocratic as any theocracy or rule by any royal house.

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"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
Re:If you don't like it by echusarcana · 2013-10-22 14:40 · Score: 1

In 6 or 7 years, I've never had a Teksavvy outage. If people have outages, regardless of your company, Bell's incompetance is probably a more likely reason than malice.
Re:If you don't like it by LinuxIsGarbage · 2013-10-22 14:49 · Score: 1

There are many independent ISPs, but they all run through the infrastructure of Bell or Rogers.
Except when it runs through the infrastructure for Telus, Shaw, NorthWestTel, SaskTel, the fibre ISPs on the West Coast, CableTron (I think, whatever it is that Quebec has), the maritimes telcos, etc.
There's a hell of a lot more to the telecommunications industry in Canada than just Bell and Rogers. That may be all you poor saps in Ontaria have; but there's more to Canada than just Ontario (as much as you may not like to think so).
In Atlantic Canada we used to have our own telcos. eg: MT&T, NBTel, etc. They all merged into Aliant. Aliant became BELLaliant. Aliant used to operate it's own mobility service, even though it had close ties, and roamed for free on Bellus network. Now BELLaliant operates landline services somewhat independently of Bell, mobility is all through Bell.
Though for Cable, and least in some provinces/ areas we have Eastlink instead of Robbers.
Re:If you don't like it by dryeo · 2013-10-22 17:04 · Score: 1

Not only that but with multiple political parties the Conservatives got their majority with 38% of the people who bothered to vote. Tyranny of the minority is what we have here.

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Re:If you don't like it by dryeo · 2013-10-22 17:06 · Score: 1

More authoritarian then the Democrats.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:If you don't like it by davester666 · 2013-10-22 17:39 · Score: 1

Worse. We have a "Harper". And we actually elected him to be in charge.

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The Land Of The Negative Option by Freshly+Exhumed · 2013-10-22 07:22 · Score: 2

Canadian telecom carriers have used the negative option for decades, been scolded by consumer groups and regulators almost every time, yet keep coming back with the old "we're going to go ahead and do this to you unless you say no, and by the way you can pick up the NO form by... um... we're not sure where it is..."

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Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by xtal · 2013-10-22 07:30 · Score: 4, Informative

You can't opt out of the monitoring and profiling.
You can only opt out of ad delivery.
Yes, it's that evil.

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..don't panic
Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by Chris+Mattern · 2013-10-22 07:32 · Score: 4, Funny

you can pick up the NO form by... um... we're not sure where it is...
In cellar with the lights out, in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'?
Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:00 · Score: 0

I recently got FIBE. I'm canceling it and going with videotron instead, unless i default to opt-out. I have no interest spending hours on the phone with their IDIOT drones who don't even listen to you.
Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:03 · Score: 0

You can't opt out of the monitoring and profiling.
You can only opt out of ad delivery.
Yes, it's that evil.
Before it was that your Tivo might think you're gay... now the neighbor will be gay by association.
Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2013-10-22 08:06 · Score: 1

Whether computers estimate you're 40% likely to be interested in Depends and 0% interested in Pampers or vice-versa is a tiny evil compared to other monitoring we now know goes on.
I laugh at when we used to think advertising profiling by computer was our "big concern".

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Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by Russ1642 · 2013-10-22 08:14 · Score: 1

I remember way back when they (I think it was Rogers) doubled everybody's cable package and just started billing them for it. They got the crap kicked out of them for that one.
Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by hazah · 2013-10-22 08:51 · Score: 1

The primary concern is the profiling itself. Everything else is just gravy.
Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by Z00L00K · 2013-10-22 09:16 · Score: 2

Ad profiling is as stupid as Clippy. "Hey you have bought a new car, maybe you want to buy a new car!"

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Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by c-A-d · 2013-10-22 09:22 · Score: 1

The BC Legislature actually passed a bill that prohibits negative option billing when that happened. It's probably still in effect.

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Re:The Land Of The Negative Option by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 11:14 · Score: 0

Who else remembers Rogers "negative option marketing" a few years ago? It ended with them going and installing filters on everyone's house to "block" those channels.

Can't opt out of data collection? by DontBlameCanada · 2013-10-22 07:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

Glad I'm not a Bell subscriber, but damn... Now that the line has been crossed I expect every alternate service provider will start doing the same thing.

Fuck.

Re:Can't opt out of data collection? by mevets · 2013-10-22 07:54 · Score: 1

Bet you 5 bucks teksavvy won't. Another 5 that Rogers will try, and will inadvertently amuse many people in the process.
Re:Can't opt out of data collection? by webmosher · 2013-10-22 08:14 · Score: 2

Perhaps Teksavvy won't themselves, but knowing Bell, it would not surprise me to see them collecting data on their wholesale DSL lines that they lease to Teksavvy.
With all the BS they were pulling with capping the wholesale lines, it would actually be more of a surprise if they weren't... "Oh we had to install the monitoring appliances in our core. We just happen to monitor everyone now."
Bleh!
Re:Can't opt out of data collection? by Mashiki · 2013-10-22 09:05 · Score: 1

From Marc of TSI.

we don't sell our customer data to anybody... I'm looking into what this is but it has nothing to do with us or our customers.

Official answer:
The underlying AUPs of the incumbents apply to the connections used to provide TekSavvy' services. This is so the incumbents can control network abuse and stop unlawful conduct relating to the use of the connection.
The incumbents retail terms of service however, that apply to their own end users, do not apply to the customers of TekSavvy.
The incumbents do not have the right to breach the privacy of retail customers of TekSavvy.

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Re:Can't opt out of data collection? by c-A-d · 2013-10-22 09:24 · Score: 1

Doesn't Teksavvy use PPPoE over Bell's lines? What's to stop them from implementing MPPE and encrypting their customer content? (a google search indicates that this question came up in 2007.)

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Re:Can't opt out of data collection? by Mashiki · 2013-10-22 10:50 · Score: 1

Doesn't Teksavvy use PPPoE over Bell's lines? What's to stop them from implementing MPPE and encrypting their customer content? (a google search indicates that this question came up in 2007.)
They use PPPoE but use their own server for handling authorization. What's stopping them from implementing MPPE? Probably Bell.

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Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by xtal · 2013-10-22 07:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

I am drafting my complaint to the Privacy commissioner, and you should too. The commissioner has real teeth and Bell will definately have to defend what they're doing. As a regulated utility they do not have right to unilaterally foist this upon people. It's repugnant and evil.

http://www.priv.gc.ca/index_e.asp

The terms are really horrible. Also, the fine print says they're going to collect and use it anyway - you can opt out of the ads. I don't have Bell TV or Phone - just internet - so how, exactly, do they intend to serve me ads?

Get angry about this. The commisioner can't do anything without complaints. Give them some.

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..don't panic

Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by i+kan+reed · 2013-10-22 07:34 · Score: 1

Or engage in violence. Internet access shouldn't be a suicide pact.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by Anne_Nonymous · 2013-10-22 07:42 · Score: 1

Well this explains all the ads for beaver on the internet.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by Kingkaid · 2013-10-22 07:52 · Score: 1

Bell already serves you ads when you use their DNS server. For websites that don't exist their DNS redirects you to advertise sponsored pages/searches provided by Bell. Rogers does the same.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by TheSpoom · 2013-10-22 07:56 · Score: 1

so how, exactly, do they intend to serve me ads?
Deep packet inspection + replacement of common ad providers like DoubleClick in third party websites?

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Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by Anrego · 2013-10-22 08:01 · Score: 1

replacement of common ad providers like DoubleClick in third party websites
It's down on my list of things that piss me off about this, but how the hell is that fair to websites supporting themselves through advertising.
This whole thing should be illegal. I'm blown away that it's not, and am hoping this enrages enough people to get the process rolling on making it illegal.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by nblender · 2013-10-22 08:02 · Score: 3, Informative

I checked when I got the notice the other day. You can't opt out of the ads. You have two buttons you can click:
- I want Random ads
- I want target ads
There is no:
- I don't want ads
button.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by master_kaos · 2013-10-22 08:07 · Score: 1

My comment about this is, if they are replacing ads are they also depriving the websites from their ad revenue? I know ad block does the same but at least it is a user choice and I am not getting the ad revenue, but they are basically stealing revenue.

It would be almost like me rebroadcasting bells satelitte stations and then replacing their ads with my own, I would get sued 6 ways from Sunday.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by Jmc23 · 2013-10-22 08:16 · Score: 1

haha, you used enraged when talking about canadians! Canadians are so political apathetic we've let the government slowly destroying anything good in the past decade. Why, we're almost as apathetic and laissez-faire with our government now as the USians are!

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Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by TheSpoom · 2013-10-22 08:25 · Score: 1

For the record, my parent comment was a theoretical way that they could serve these ads; it has no basis in any known Bell plans that I've read.

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It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by Anrego · 2013-10-22 08:38 · Score: 1

I was actually quite impressed with the push back against the 1996-level caps usage caps the CRTC tried a while back.
In that case we were talking direct cost to consumers though. Privacy it's a little more abstract and hard to get the average non-geek angry about. Then again, how many people have lets say "unique" web browsing habits (office stapler porn) that they may not want driving ads their wife/kids/friends using their wifi/etc would see. That's probably the cheat code right there.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by Jmc23 · 2013-10-22 08:47 · Score: 1

1996 we were still Canadian and had stuff to be proud of. 2001 we told Bush to shove it with his FUD campaign against Iraq. Then we became more greedy, collected more debt, and voted in Harper (the man which even god cannot bring light to his eyes), ushering in a country wide apathy and greed and environmental destruction that was once only limited to the west.

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Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by c-A-d · 2013-10-22 09:26 · Score: 1

Tell you what, we'll take our apathy and greed and environmental destruction and you can have Quebec.

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Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by CKW · 2013-10-22 09:33 · Score: 1

Doesn't that blatantly violate the copyright of the websites who are serving that data?
Doesn't doubleclick have enough lawyers to blow Bell back to the stone age?
I specifically remember years ago, when someone tried to build a CLIENT SIDE application that allowed you and others to "comment on top of" a website as it was displayed in your browser, they got completely blown out of the water over this, because they were "defacing and modifying someone else's copyright'd content" -- and that wasn't even as clear as this, that was in your browser after it had been displayed, this is flat out interception of communication between me and a third party and MODIFICATION of said data.
It's just completely fucked up. Everyone needs to enable SSL on their websites, cpu and bandwidth be damned.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by Andrewkov · 2013-10-22 09:50 · Score: 1

Damn trick questions.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 09:54 · Score: 0

Actually the privacy commissioner is at least thinking of doing something according to the news. It doesn't hurt to have a few thousands complains though.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/privacy-commissioner-to-investigate-bell-s-data-collecting-1.2158593
>Canada's privacy commissioner will be investigating after Bell informed customers by letter that it plans to begin collecting detailed information about their consumption habits in order to offer “relevant ads.”
>Scott Hutchinson, a spokesman for the privacy commissioner, told CBC Montreal that his office has received several complaints.
Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by WillAffleckUW · 2013-10-22 10:19 · Score: 1

As a dual citizen, I agree.
Privacy is in the Canadian Constitution, and Corporations aren't.

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Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by jenningsthecat · 2013-10-22 15:14 · Score: 1

Tell you what, we'll take our apathy and greed and environmental destruction and you can have Quebec.
I'd be happy to take Quebec. I like Quebec. Sure, they have nutjobs and corruption there, (as they do everywhere else), but at least they've declared a moratorium on poisoning people's wells for the sake of Big Oil.

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Re:Canadians: Complain to the Privacy Comissioner by Earache65 · 2013-10-25 02:30 · Score: 1

I totally agree here. This is the link to the Bell support page for more info:
http://support.bell.ca/billing-and-accounts/security_and_privacy/how_does_bell_respect_my_privacy?step=4
I like their response to the single question FAQ - Is my information shared?
- "No, under these new programs, we will not share any information that identifies you personally outside of Bell Canada and its affiliates."
Run this through the Corporate Speak Translator and you get:
- "Yes, we will share most of your data indiscriminately, but the data that personally identifies you will only be shared throughout the massive national organization of Bell Canada and anyone who pays enough to become an 'affiliate'".

Then users will switch to their competitors... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:26 · Score: 0

And this is why monopolies are bad.

Re:Then users will switch to their competitors... by NIK282000 · 2013-10-22 07:29 · Score: 4, Informative

What competitors? I switched from bell to teksavvy and 9 out of 10 people I know had no idea it even existed. Even after switching I'm still at the mercy of cogeco because they own the lines around here. When there is a service interruption cogeco, rogers and bell make sure that teksavvy customers are the last to get their service back.

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Re:Then users will switch to their competitors... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:34 · Score: 0

This is somewhat true, but there are distinct advantages to TekSavvy which to me outweigh the drawbacks.
1) They do NOT DNS-hijack/redirect (Robellus does)
2) They throttle less
3) When you call them to support, you talk to a knowledgeable person in Canada, not a script-monkey overseas.
They also offer unlimited monthly transfers and static IPs for a fair price - neither of which you can get from Robellus for even close to the same cost.
Re:Then users will switch to their competitors... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:37 · Score: 0

3) When you call them to support, you talk to a knowledgeable person in Canada, not a script-monkey overseas./p ... but unfortunately, they can't do anything, they need to wait for the Robellus tech to go on-site.
Re:Then users will switch to their competitors... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:41 · Score: 0

Happy start.ca customer here. No unlimited transfer, but the customer service is even better than TekSavvy, and no dry loop fees.
Re:Then users will switch to their competitors... by diodeus · 2013-10-22 07:49 · Score: 2

It's BELL MOBILITY, not BELL INTERNET.
Re:Then users will switch to their competitors... by ArcadeMan · 2013-10-22 08:00 · Score: 2

for now. Smartphone users are being used as beta-testers.

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Re:Then users will switch to their competitors... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:13 · Score: 0

Not yet, but on one outside of Bell can say if they are not going to do the same to their internet.
At least there are some alternatives to the mobile carriers in Canada: Wind Mobile, Mobilicity.
Re:Then users will switch to their competitors... by alexo · 2013-10-22 10:20 · Score: 1

I can also list 3 distinct TSI advantages:
1) They are not Bell.
2) They are not Rogers.
3) They are not Telus.

What's new? by Russ1642 · 2013-10-22 07:27 · Score: 1

Every other provider is looking around thinking "we've been doing this for years."

On the plus side by ScottCooperDotNet · 2013-10-22 07:31 · Score: 1

Now maybe I won't see as many erectile dysfunction, tampon, and reverse mortgage ads during pro sports.

Re:On the plus side by i+kan+reed · 2013-10-22 07:59 · Score: 1

Well, at least not the reverse mortgage ads, anyways. Who'd want to reverse mortgage a cardboard box?
Re:On the plus side by Andrewkov · 2013-10-22 09:46 · Score: 1

That's the typical demographic of sports watchers.. but you forgot light beer.

Opt Out! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:31 · Score: 0

It's not like Bell is providing an essential service or is a monopoly. Internet? Switch to TekSavvy. Cellular? Switch to Wind or Moblicity. TV? Well, if you think TV is a necessity, I pity your lost soul. Just give it up and get some fresh air, or get shows online.

Re:Opt Out! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:35 · Score: 0

It's not like Bell is providing an essential service or is a monopoly. Internet? Switch to TekSavvy..
May I be the first to say : Teksavvy is simply a Bell/Rogers/Cogeco/Videotron/ reseller. What difference will it make?
Re:Opt Out! by LikwidCirkel · 2013-10-22 07:37 · Score: 1

People keep saying this but it IS NOT TRUE!!! Teksavvy leases ONLY the last mile, because there is no other way to do it. The first hop is a router completely owned and controlled by TekSavvy. I can trace routes and run all kinds of other utilities which show very clearly that TekSavvy is NOT a reseller.
Re:Opt Out! by DontBlameCanada · 2013-10-22 07:44 · Score: 1

Correction, the first hop that decrements your TTL and returns the expiry notification is a TekSavvy device.

Any number of silent routers and switches could be mining data in the Bell/Rogers owned "last mile."
Re:Opt Out! by ArcadeMan · 2013-10-22 08:02 · Score: 1

Bell are a monopoly in all the small markets. You only have other options if you live in Montreal, Québec city, etc.

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Re:Opt Out! by Guspaz · 2013-10-22 08:15 · Score: 2

TekSavvy leases more than just the last mile, they also lease the aggregation network. For users in eastern Canada, TekSavvy's entire network is constrained to a single building in downtown Toronto. As a Montreal TekSavvy user, my path to a server on the Internet goes through nothing but Bell hardware all the way until it hits 151 Front St. in Toronto, at which point it gets dumped into somebody else's network again (one of TSI's upstream providers).
Independent ISPs are not resellers, but to say that they're only getting the "last mile" from Bell is incredibly inaccurate.
Re:Opt Out! by MachDelta · 2013-10-22 08:47 · Score: 1

Early termination fees are a bitch.
Re:Opt Out! by Mashiki · 2013-10-22 09:12 · Score: 1

Bell are a monopoly in all the small markets.
Yeah that's not true at all, people just can't be bothered to search. The city where I live in, in Ontario has ~35k people, I have 57 ISP's to choose from, the next nearest town has ~8k people, they have 70 ISP's to chose from. If I choose a major city like London, or K-W you can easily see 80-140 ISP's. The only places where Bell, Rogers, Telus, etc are a monopoly are in subdivisions where they're installing and forcing people into a contract term when they buy a new house. www.canadianisp.ca is a godsend.

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Om, nomnomnom...
Re:Opt Out! by ArcadeMan · 2013-10-23 10:13 · Score: 1

35K people is still quite big, especially if you are near a huge city. Try a town of barely 10K people in the middle of nowhere (G9X).
Last time I checked with TekSaavy, their website said the service was available to my apartment but their sales department said that was a mistake. We really have a monopoly here, the only choices are Télébec or nothing.

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Re:Opt Out! by Mashiki · 2013-10-23 15:49 · Score: 1

How about nowhere? Okay. T0E population ~4500, 10 ISP's.

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Om, nomnomnom...
Re:Opt Out! by ArcadeMan · 2013-10-24 06:58 · Score: 1

If your nowhere is near enough to a big center, of course you'll have 10 ISPs.
I just called all eight so-called choices that are supposed to be available to me, turns out that none offers service to my whole town despite their own websites saying otherwise. Télébec really has a monopoly on internet service.

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins

Encrypt everything by WaffleMonster · 2013-10-22 07:39 · Score: 2

Or switch to an ISP that does not insist on treating their customers like shit.

Re:Encrypt everything by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:42 · Score: 0

Or switch to an ISP that does not insist on treating their customers like shit.
Does that even exist?
Re:Encrypt everything by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:57 · Score: 0

Sonic.net in Northern Ca. :-)
Re:Encrypt everything by LikwidCirkel · 2013-10-22 07:58 · Score: 1

Yes. Pretty much anyone who wasn't a cable or phone company in the 80s. So, that excludes Bell, Rogers, Shaw, Videotron, Telus, MTS, and possibly other provincial entities.

Notable alternatives are TekSavvy (a hybrid business, not a pure reseller), start.ca, Wind Mobile, Moblicity... possibly some others like Primus and Distributel who I believe are pure resellers.
Re:Encrypt everything by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:07 · Score: 0

Bell is the worst customer service I have had anywhere on the globe, and I've worked on 4 continents. Also what the f*@# is with being forced into channel packages I don't even want nor watch?? How about getting whoever is training those service reps FIRED?
Re:Encrypt everything by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:50 · Score: 0

RTFA. This is Bell pulling a PRISM, not something ISP-related (though I wouldn't put it past Bell or any of its major competitors/regional equivalents to go there). And if you know of a decent mobile service provider that doesn't require that you bend over, there are millions of Canadians who would love to know who that is.
Re:Encrypt everything by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:55 · Score: 0

Bell is the worst customer service I have had anywhere on the globe, and I've worked on 4 continents. Also what the f*@# is with being forced into channel packages I don't even want nor watch?? How about getting whoever is training those service reps FIRED?
Telus has by far the worst customer service. I spoke with their "support" people about configuring a Telus DSL modem/router box to allow SSH inbound so I could help my Mom when she has PC problems. As soon as I used words like "firewall" and "SSH" and "fixed LAN IP", they just shutdown and kept repeating "we don't support that" over and over. Telus support people didn't even know what DHCP is!
Funny thing is - everything was working up until the time Telus came over and "fixed" something. Prior to Telus service call, I had everything set up and I could SSH into my Mom's PC and help her out.
Telus sucks. It's true.
Re:Encrypt everything by antdude · 2013-10-22 18:18 · Score: 1

Good luck. They will all do it soon. Or there are no other broadband services. One could go to dial-up, satellite, etc. :P

--
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).

TekSavvy ... double-plus good by peter.kingsbury · 2013-10-22 07:42 · Score: 0

Not to mention, I got me a Betty Behave poster during one of their promotions. :-)

Adblock to the rescue by johanw · 2013-10-22 07:43 · Score: 1

The best answer to that is to block their ads completely. And while you're at it all other annoying ads too.

Re:Adblock to the rescue by Anrego · 2013-10-22 07:57 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm more concerned with whatever magic they are doing to get the list of websites I'm visiting. Be it transparent proxy of packet inspection, it seems totally over the line.
Re:Adblock to the rescue by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 13:33 · Score: 0

How is Adblock going to protect me from the MASSIVE invasion of privacy as Bell reaps my TV viewing habits, telephone history (yeah I know they already keep this for billing purposes), and deep inspects ALL my data (this is more info than google, facebook, amazon combined)
Re:Adblock to the rescue by johanw · 2013-10-22 21:11 · Score: 1

Not directly, but is is making that datacollection more and more worthless since you're not viewing ads, personalized or not, anyway.
Re:Adblock to the rescue by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-23 08:37 · Score: 0

Your english (the term "more worthless") is technically correct, however the phrasing you used connotes that personal information is worthless, and that advertisers make the info "less worthless."
I would prefer if you used words that connote that personal information is valuable rather than worthless.
FTFW: "making datacollection **less valuable** since you're not viewing ads."
Re:Adblock to the rescue by Earache65 · 2013-10-25 05:18 · Score: 1

Really? When you're squeezing an orange and not getting enough juice out of it, do you squeeze it less?

Get TV OTA by LeadSongDog · 2013-10-22 07:46 · Score: 1

The receivers are just that. Unidirectional. So what if you lose most channels full of pathetic content, you'll just have more free time to find the way out of your parents' basement!

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Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.

Re:Get TV OTA by Jmc23 · 2013-10-22 08:53 · Score: 1

Thanks for the tip! Now, how do I use it to make phone calls since this is about a cellular provider??

--
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.

Fuck by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:51 · Score: 0

First off, I'm usually a fairly pragmatic person and not typically the "omg I'm cancelling my service tonight" type, but jesus fuck.. if this happens it's time to switch to someone (although I wonder if resellers are going to be feeding data into this as well).

On the technical side, is this some kind of transparent proxy, or are they doing deep packet inspection. Either way, way over the line...

Been done before, and dropped by h2oliu · 2013-10-22 07:53 · Score: 3, Interesting

Charter tried this in the US. It didn't last long. When someone's kids were targeted for ads based on dad's browsing things get ugly.

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Ok, I give up, why you?

Submit complains to the CRTC by making a petition by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:54 · Score: 0

We should submit a complains to the CRTC by making a petition, I know its not always working but if enought sign it and send it they may decide to do something about it.

Bell, unethical? No need to repeat yourself. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 07:56 · Score: 0

Ask any Canadian unfortunate enough to be roped into using them.

Although... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:01 · Score: 0

.... at least you can opt out, unlike some sites where you have no choice, like Facebook...

Hat Lady by speedlaw · 2013-10-22 08:14 · Score: 1

Searched on line for a vacation once. Six months of being followed around by a Club Med Ad....creepy. Same ad, variety of websites....... Loyal adblock user now. I never really minded, but do I need a "personal Barker ?" No, I don't.

Petition to opt-out all monitoring. by digiital · 2013-10-22 08:27 · Score: 1

https://www.change.org/petitions/bell-canada-to-collect-user-data-give-customers-the-option-to-opt-out-of-all-data-collection-not-just-relevant-targeted-ads

VPN by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2013-10-22 08:29 · Score: 1

I use a VPN service at $5 a month to keep browsing private as well as ensure access to skype in countries that block it. I wonder how valuable browsing data would be if you just randomly loaded pages form a list of say 10K urls; especially if a significant percentage of users did that 24x7?.

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I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.

Good excuse... by Fantasio · 2013-10-22 08:34 · Score: 1

Bell Canada : What are you complaining about ?... we're doing much less than the NSA, and we're doing that for your own good !

I guess that Bell Canada (like many others) now feels entitled to spy on everybody.

Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 08:43 · Score: 0

As if I needed another reason to avoid Bell...
Not only were they throttling their already abysmal service, but now this? Glad I switched.

This is why I switched to Teksavvy by ilsaloving · 2013-10-22 08:55 · Score: 2

This is why I switched to Teksavvy. I got fed up with the bullshit Rogers and Bell were pulling, a long time ago. I haven't regretted the decision.

Not only does Teksavvy not try to foist bullshit on their customers, but they actively fight for consumer rights.

Re:This is why I switched to Teksavvy by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 09:52 · Score: 0

But are Teksavvy DSL users on the Bell network immune to this? I would think since Teksavvy traffic runs on the Bell network, it will be collected and analyzed. Actually, maybe not because Bell won't be able to correlate it with customer data. Or will they? Bell had to come to my house to hook it up, so they know something about me.
Re:This is why I switched to Teksavvy by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 13:23 · Score: 0

At least if you move to TekSavvy you aren't PAYING Bell to spy on you. Yes, Bell still gets some cash from TekSavvy for the DSL line, but .... it's the best one can do.
Re:This is why I switched to Teksavvy by ilsaloving · 2013-10-23 02:14 · Score: 1

Unfortunately this is unavoidable because Bell owns the physical lines.
I actually have Teksavvy Cable, because at the time I switched, Bell was doing their "we will throttle everyone using our lines, even if you have a different ISP" idiocy.

Cellular contracts by phorm · 2013-10-22 09:26 · Score: 1

And how do you switch to another cellular provider without incurring penalties?
Actually, I'm wondering if this could be used as a basis for terminating contracts. I'd love to dump my provider (Virgin, a subsidiary of Bell) if I could due to this bullshit.

I've heard that when services are greatly changed the ability to terminate a contract is possible. Anyone know if this counts?

Never underestimate bells greed by vladilinsky · 2013-10-22 09:26 · Score: 1

Its worse than just that, i just tried to opt out, (I know I should not be on bell to begin with, but my wife set up the phone plans) the options are do you want targeted adds, or random unfiltered adds. Where is no adds, i am paying you way to much money for to little service. I will accept adds if I am getting a free service from someone, but when I am already drastically overpaying for my phone. No chance in hell. I am sending them a letter informing them that I will be leaving there service as in the spring when my contract is up and telling all of my friends to do the same thing.

Re:Never underestimate bells greed by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 13:27 · Score: 0

I wonder if you can leave come Nov16. Based on them changing the agreements of your original contract.

Looks like they're already on it by phorm · 2013-10-22 09:41 · Score: 5, Informative

According to CBC, the privacy commissioner is Already Starting an Investigation

Re:Looks like they're already on it by Dr.+Evil · 2013-10-22 11:32 · Score: 2

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, and eternal vigilance is expensive.
This needs go go beyond just overruling Bell's actions, there needs to be a serious penalty.

Damnit! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 10:17 · Score: 0

I already cancelled my service with them earlier this year. This makes me want to renew my service, just so I can cancel it again. OH WAIT, My mom uses Bell...

Re:Bell Canada is owned by the Teachers Pension Fu by dk20 · 2013-10-22 11:31 · Score: 3, Informative

Not to burst your bubble, but Bell is a publicly owned company. It trades on the TSX/NYSE under ticket "BCE" and is 45% institutional owned. This means the majority of the holders are not large institutions.

As for Teachers pension plan their holdings are now below $100MM (well, they dont show up on their reports for positions > 100MM http://www.otpp.com/investments/essentials/major-investments)

Perhaps you are thinking of the failed attempt to take them public years ago?
PS: I'm an "owner" of BCE as I've held a position for many years.
Nice conspiracy theory, next time spend a minute or two to validate.

Re:Bell Canada is owned by the Teachers Pension Fu by dk20 · 2013-10-22 11:31 · Score: 1

My bad, "take them private..."

Dont care really by Oroka · 2013-10-22 13:22 · Score: 1

I dont really care if Bell gives me targeted ads, it is better than generic ads, so I will get ads that are relevant to my interests, which is better than male enhancement and tampon ads. Google has been doing it for years, and I find it amusing when I search some topic then see related ads everywhere. I still dont click them. Infact it gets me in trouble, because if I go to a site that does not have targeted ads and is posting say... 'meet a hot chinese wife today', my fiance would think I had been looking up asians or somthing like that. Its not like they are mining my personal data for info, they are looking at browsing habits, what and when I watch on tv. I dont care if Bell knows I visit Slashdot, watch nothing on tv cause it is all reality garbage, or primarily text on my phone. Considering the NSA crap going on (which I still dont care about and am not surprised at its scope), this is lame. Bell is my service provider, I assume they have records of what I do with their services (being the computer age and all), they are a business there to make money. This is a way for them to bring relevant advertisements to customers rather than the inefficient blanket advertising of old. Get over it. This is like whining about a camera on a street corner or in a subway station. OMG THEY R TRAKING ME!!!1!!!one!! Im not seeing any Engsoc banners around, my web cam could be watching me... I seem to be guilty of reading tech blogs and getting lawlz at vine videos lately. I think communism is a great idea, capitalism is killing the west, god save the queen (she is just a figurehead with no sway, but tradition is nice), and Snape kills Dumbledore. You want to live in a hole and wait for the Russian and Chinese troops in the States to fill those millions of coffins FEMA ordered before Nibiru AND Nemesis shows up... just dont eat soy because third generation soy eaters are sterile.

Re:Dont care really by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-23 07:31 · Score: 0

Good for you, you're a perfect human being and have nothing to hide. Everything you do is within the well defined social norms. You are not LGBT, nor do you look at pron. You do not care about politics, so you cannot anger any of the political parties by viewing a competitors website. Nothing you do will ever rock the boat.
You're only "flaw" is that you seem to neither care about your own privacy, NOR DO YOU CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.
You're incredibly selfish take of "I have nothing to hide, and no one else should either," shows that you either do not care, or do not think about other people who value their privacy on perfectly legal things (IE an LGBT Canadian who wants to visit friends in Iran, their LGBT privacy will be compromised by Bell, and sold to Iran, who will threaten the friends and family of the LGBT person).
This sociopathic lack of empathy is, of course, now shared with potential employers. It may not impact you, but of course, the Internet never forgets and you're children will now be judged on your lack of empathy.
Of course, Im being over-insulting. You probably are not a sociopath, you probably simply don't understand how the compromising of your privacy impacts all the people you care about. You probably haven't given thought to the fact that other people want and need privacy for perfectly legal reasons.
You should really start thinking about other people rather than just yourself.

Lawful Intercept by snowsnoot · 2013-10-22 15:44 · Score: 1

The LI implications of this are pretty stark. Forget advertising, what about activist groups that the government doesn't take a liking to? Any data collected by the carriers is fair game to RCMP/CSIS/CSEC

ACity024 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 21:51 · Score: 0

Wow

Are they going to tap phones, too? by hpa · 2013-10-23 00:08 · Score: 1

"In other news, Bell Canada has started tapping phone lines to improve advertising..."

Technically, what are they doing? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-23 00:43 · Score: 0

Are they replacing the ads that web sites present on their pages with their own?

I can see Ad Providers and web site owners having an issue with this as well. Basically they're changing the content that users are viewing from the Internet.

What's next? Redacting any mention of Telus, Rogers, and Teksavyy when it appears on a web page? And then calling you 5 minutes later offering you a "loyalty" discount?

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Bell Canada To Collect User Data For Advertising

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