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Gunman Opens Fire At LAX

McGruber tips news that today at 9:30AM PST, a man removed an assault rifle from a bag at Los Angeles International Airport and opened fire. The shooter moved into the screening area, and then further into the terminal. One TSA agent was killed; roughly six more people were injured. The gunman was a ticketed passenger. (Early reports suggested he worked for the TSA — this does not seem to be the case.) Police engaged him in gunfire, and he's now in custody. His motive is unknown at this time.

520 comments

  1. Pretty Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some TSA officer obviously handled his jibblets a little too roughly.

  2. Great... by TWX · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just what we need, now we'll have a security checkpoint before our security checkpoint to prevent you from bringing a gun into the security checkpoint.

    Turtles all the way down...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yo, dawg.

    2. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just what we need, now we'll have a security checkpoint before our security checkpoint to prevent you from bringing a gun into the security checkpoint.
      Turtles all the way down...

      Turtle = TSA Agent?

    3. Re:Great... by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More like, prepare for this to look like a warzone as airports start to resemble third-world combat zones. Soldiers with assault rifles on their arms staking out every airport entrance and jeeps on patrol around the airport every hour of the day. This is exactly the sort of justification they needed to ratchet things up.

      That said, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think even a TSA agent deserved to be murdered in cold-blood.

    4. Re:Great... by rikkards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have been saying for the longest time, terrorists don't need to get on the plane. Now they just need to blow them selves up getting into the security line. What then is TSA going to do? It's a cat and mouse game and unfortunately the TSA isn't going to win

    5. Re:Great... by zlives · · Score: 2, Insightful

      or we could have a rational discussion about gun control...Nah

    6. Re:Great... by zlives · · Score: 3

      naked airlines... finally we can get the bible trumpeters on board in the name of war on terror

    7. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Rational discussion" meaning "groups of people coming to the same conclusion I did."

    8. Re:Great... by craigminah · · Score: 0, Troll

      No...the perpetrator used an "assault rifle"...which people in the military call "small arms" which are banned for hunting deer with because of their inability to kill them cleanly. I wonder if the weapon type will change like the DC Naval Yard shooting where the weapon was initially erroneously reported as an "assault rifle" then changed to a Vice-President Biden-approved shotgun. Let's avoid knee-jerk gun control and let's instead focus on the problems that cause people to lash out...most likely shitty jobs, shitty attitudes, and stupid politics that screw up people's lives and livelihoods. If guns were outlawed, the perpetrator would use a so-called "assault knife" or "assault baseball bat" to commit the crimes with.

    9. Re:Great... by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      I have been saying for the longest time, terrorists don't need to get on the plane. Now they just need to blow them selves up getting into the security line. What then is TSA going to do? It's a cat and mouse game and unfortunately the TSA isn't going to win

      I've been saying the same. I'm happy the number of casualties was as low as it was. But I find it surprising that someone with (what I assume is) a semi-automatic rifle only killed 1 person and injured 6 on a Friday at LAX. I suppose it could have been a bolt action SKS or something.

    10. Re:Great... by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unlikely. They're already calling his weapon an "assault rifle", despite the fact that "a dozen" shots were fired.

      An assault rifle fires "a dozen" shots in about one second (automatic) or at most 4 trigger pulls (3 round burst).

      Unless the fire selector is set to single-shot. In which case I'd have to wonder why someone would go through the trouble of procuring an illegal firearm for themselves (assault rifles have been illegal since at least 1986) simply to use it in a manner that any legal (and easily obtained) semi-automatic rifle would suffice for.

      Maybe he's military, and it's his service weapon. Or maybe the news outlets are in a race to see who can offer the most hysterical coverage.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    11. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not until you realize that guns cannot be uninvented, and/or that trying to circumvent the process by which the US Constitution is amended will come back to bite you in the ass regarding the amendments that you actually care about, will we be able to have a rational discussion about gun control.

      Until then, it's not a discussion, it's just you telling me "you don't need a gun because I said so", and me responding back with "fuck off".

    12. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you even read TFA ?

    13. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      or we could have a rational discussion about gun control...Nah

      Don't waste your breath. Not even the death of tens of children has had any effect whatsoever in "kicking the second amendment right where it belongs". That is into the wastebasket of History.
      Americans love guns. Good for them. Have them deal with the aftermath of these anounced tragedies.

    14. Re:Great... by intermodal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Assault rifles don't exist until someone commits assault with a rifle. At that point, any rifle is an assault rifle.

      Any time I see a news article or press release with the term "assault rifle" in it I know I'm dealing with someone who doesn't know anything at all about guns. A quick scan of TFA, BTW, does not name or picture the weapon. For all we know, it could be a deer rifle with a black stock, a Warsaw Pact semiauto AK, any of dozens of M4/M14/M16/AR15 semiauto clones, or a really tricked out Ruger 10-22 (and a lucky shot on the one kill). A more attentive reading might tell us more, but I doubt it.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    15. Re:Great... by TWX · · Score: 2

      Have you seen most people? Do you really want to see them naked?

      I'd guess that only about fifteen percent of people are in the right condition to look good while naked. That means most viewers would only want to see about seven to eight percent of people, in totality, naked.

      I really don't want to see Naked Airlines. For every Christina Ricci there'd be five Rosie O'Donnells.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    16. Re:Great... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      People here keep saying more guns held by people trained to use them would make things safer, but it doesn't seem to have worked. Why is that?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    17. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, Turtle = suspected terrorist.

      ...Or was that "Tuttle"?

    18. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You see, if guns were illegal in LA, this couldn't happen.

      Oh, wait...

    19. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Naked airlines? Unless every flight in the US is directly to the Playboy Mansion, that is definitely a DO NOT WANT!

      Don't forget, that which has been seen cannot be unseen.

    20. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rational meaning we start with the fact he DID NOT use an "assault rifle". Calling it that is ignorant.

      And that NONE of the LAW ABIDING CITIZENS were ALLOWED to be armed to defend themselves!

      Yes, let's have a rational discussion about irrational gun control laws.

    21. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is Los Angeles, you can't carry a firearm and getting a CWP is near impossible. Fortunately the police, who do have guns, managed to end this before more people were hurt.

    22. Re:Great... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      This happened in a state that doesn't have a shall-issue concealed carry law.

      My permit, OTOH, allows me to carry a weapon inside the passenger terminal of an airport. The TSA wouldn't let me past security with it, but I can carry it loaded until I check it for the flight, and if I forget it's on me and accidentally carry it in, it's not a violation of state law.

    23. Re:Great... by Skynyrd · · Score: 1

      No...the perpetrator used an "assault rifle"...which people in the military call "small arms" which are banned for hunting deer with because of their inability to kill them cleanly.

      Say what?
      Can you elaborate, and provide sources. I am not aware of specific rifles being banned for deer hunting. Nor am I aware of cartridge rules, other than a centerfire requirement. If a specific cartridge, say the .223 were banned for its inability to kill, why is a bow legal?

      Disclaimer: I'm in Oregon, and have not researched all state's hunting laws.

    24. Re:Great... by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      And *nobody* really wants to sit in an airplane seat just vacated by the previous occupant, now matter how appealing they might have looked.

    25. Re:Great... by Ravaldy · · Score: 0, Troll

      Ok, so lets continue to have guns while it takes us hundreds of years to fix a problem we can never fix (Human nature).

      We can work on the problem you mention but we should put gun control in place ASAP. It's BS to say gun control won't help the issue. Actually no!!!! Lets give everybody a hand gun instead. What a stupid way of thinking.

      Hunting riffles kill to but with 5 shot mags it's hard to shoot down a whole room. That's what gun control is about. It's control, not elimination. Everybody knows there will still be deaths caused by guns, we just won't see 50 people die in the span of 10 seconds.

      There are many other reasons why gun control works. It's been proven to work in many 1st world countries.

    26. Re:Great... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Killing someone while consumed with rage or hatred is not "in cold-blood."

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    27. Re:Great... by intermodal · · Score: 0

      OK, now you're clearly just trolling.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    28. Re:Great... by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did you know a .22 short fired from a revolver can penetrate 12-inches of wetpack with roughly a 1-inch wound channel?

      Sure, .22 is a tiny caliber - but that doesn't mean it's not dangerous.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    29. Re:Great... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      .22 is a tiny caliber...but it's not much smaller than .223 (AR15/M16). You can do a lot of damage with a .22, you just have to hit the right things to get a kill with it.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    30. Re: Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which state is this sensible state you live in?

    31. Re:Great... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Had it been practical (eg not playing salmon up a waterfall for a permit) for people to carry weapons, that might have made a difference.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    32. Re:Great... by X0563511 · · Score: 0

      It's a little sad that you'd not find beauty in 9/10 people.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    33. Re:Great... by bigfinger76 · · Score: 1

      The SKS is not, nor ever was, an "assault rifle".

    34. Re:Great... by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      Airport = "gun free zone," just the same as schools and malls tend to be, which is where these "events" tend to happen.

      Since it was a so called "gun free zone," pretty much the only lawfully armed people there would be the police. (There are some very limited exceptions.) For some reason criminals seem to ignore both social convention and signs forbidding the bringing weapons into areas so marked. The law abiding, assuming they didn't overlook it, would disarm before entering such a place. I'm sure that someone as sharp as you can see the potential for asymmetric outcomes there.

      You may find this instructive: Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    35. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CA is a May-issue state. LA county is realistically a no-issue county since the LEOs are not going ti issue anyone a CCW permit unless you are a friend, high political contributor, or high profile celeb.

    36. Re:Great... by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      I have been saying for the longest time, terrorists don't need to get on the plane. Now they just need to blow them selves up getting into the security line. What then is TSA going to do? It's a cat and mouse game and unfortunately the TSA isn't going to win

      Attacking a security line at an airport is a much lower value target for terrorists than being able to hijack a plane, or blow it out of the sky. If they just want to kill people, there are plenty of other places to do that at lower risk. Things like that have happened from time to time, but it's not common. It might be done as part of a hijack attempt, but otherwise attacking an airport doesn't really add much value for them.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    37. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In case you didn't notice, this was yet another attack in yet another 'gun-free zone'. Signs and laws don't keep the guns out, they just keep the law abiding folks with guns out.

    38. Re:Great... by jcr · · Score: 1

      As soon as you get the government to fully disarm, I will consider doing so.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    39. Re:Great... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      There's about two counties that are actually likely to issue a permit to someone who doesn't have a lot of money in CA. It is, functionally, a mostly-will-not-issue state.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    40. Re:Great... by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'll assume this is a real question from someone that doesn't know the quote.

      Turtle = TSA Agent?

      There is a legend of how the universe is constructed that the Earth lies on the back of a giant turtle. But wait, what does the turtle stand on? Ummmm, well another turtle. OK, what does that stand on? Eventually you get to "turtles all the way down".

      It's become a phrase in some situations where you wave away a hard problem by having more and more layers of the same, turtles all the way down.

    41. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not far from what we had after 9/11. National Guard in airports, with guns. Probably not jeep patrols, but still. They still have National Guard in Penn Station, NY on occasion. And yes, it does look like, well, some non-American country.

    42. Re:Great... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That is a silly comparison.

      Your conclusion is nominally correct. You would be hard-pressed to do a lot of damage with a .22, but you could certainly do critical, lethal damage. Both tend to leave clean holes, but the .22 tends both to leave less of one, and to penetrate less.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    43. Re:Great... by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

      The SKS is not, nor ever was, an "assault rifle".

      Nothing that most civilians can buy qualifies as an "assault rifle". I believe a weapon has to be fully or scheduled automatic to qualify as an assault rifle. Generally the media calls them "assault weapons". Which has no real meaning other than someone thinks it a big scary looking firearm of some sort.

    44. Re:Great... by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      This is what everyone wants, man. As the Principia Discordia points out, if it wasn't, we'd stop.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    45. Re:Great... by presspass · · Score: 1

      This ^ is what I'd like to explore.
      Why does the media and the general populace get this so wrong?
      It's not an arcane distinction. It's basic mechanics. One trigger pull, one shot.
      Huh...

    46. Re:Great... by X0563511 · · Score: 2

      No, you just have to hit the right things to get an immediate kill with it. Whether you die before the barrel cools, or you bleed out over the course of several minutes - dead is dead.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    47. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or maybe they just consulted their Firearms Identification Table For Journalists:

      http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1208/journalists-guide-firearms-ak47-brady-colorado-guns-laws-politics-1343922032.jpg

    48. Re:Great... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Check up on Connecticut's gun laws, it seems they outlawed hunting with AR-15s and maybe some other weapons on public lands. If they are properly registered you may still hunt with them on private lands, though. I just did a little googling around for "most restrictive" and that's one of the things I came up with.

      I don't really care to own such weapons at this point so I don't know if California is still banning all AK and AR series weapons not registered in 2000 from private ownership and transfer... I have olde timey guns

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    49. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No need, you could have every passenger go to an isolated booth outside the airport, strip and submit to a full body scan and cavity search, then give them a disposable opaque jumpsuit to wear into the airport and onwards until final destination. All this can be done remotely with robot arms so no TSA agent is at risk... I'm so glad I did all my traveling in the past century.

    50. Re:Great... by obarthelemy · · Score: 0

      Yep. let's wait until we fix the all world before tackling the very specific problem that guns are available in general, to any nut in particular, and guns kill people.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    51. Re:Great... by qbast · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your government has nukes, artillery, tanks, bombers, etc. Are you going to demand access to these too? After all your logic seems to be 'whatever government can has, I want too'.

    52. Re:Great... by GarethIwanFairclough · · Score: 1

      Actually, .22 is rather smaller. It's not much narrower, but it is quite a bit shorter than the .223 (aka 5.56). Less room for powder and bullet means less powerful round.

    53. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This happened in a state that doesn't have a shall-issue concealed carry law.

      That was never a condition presented by the "If I had a gun on me..." crowd.

    54. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not his fault 9/10 of people have given up on a healthy diet and exercise.

    55. Re:Great... by SeaFox · · Score: 0

      Yo Dawg, I heard you like to feel safe.

      So we took your crotchety-old civil liberties, and set you up with the new TSA hotness! But we went further and now we got you some security for your securiy. So now with us checkpointing the checkpoint, you can fly to the M-A-X at L-A-X, and be safe from everyone-- but us.

    56. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know the individual in question was consumed with rage or hatred?

    57. Re:Great... by deanklear · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Australia had a similar gun control problem and solved it:

      http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOKWcH1zBl2kfnCwyyZWk5MW28lgaNa7L

      Everyone -- including the most vocal opponents of the plan -- are happy with the results, Australia remains a democracy, and there have been zero mass shootings since those changes took effect nearly two decades ago. Homicide rates and suicide rates have also declined.

      Sometimes the other side is irrational, and this is one of those cases.

    58. Re:Great... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Doesn't solve this issue. Unless you have people come to the airport naked and without any luggage at hand.

    59. Re:Great... by pongo000 · · Score: 1

      or we could have a rational discussion about gun control...Nah

      Looks like gun control in CA, one of the most anti-2A states in the union, is working great. Bring the discussion on.

    60. Re:Great... by c · · Score: 1

      In which case I'd have to wonder why someone would go through the trouble of procuring an illegal firearm for themselves ... simply to use it in a manner that any legal (and easily obtained) semi-automatic rifle would suffice for.

      I might be going out on a limb, but I'd suspect that the details of local firearms laws aren't exactly high on the list of concerns for someone planning to shoot up an airport.

      It doesn't need to be much more complicated than "what do I have and what can I get?" although I suppose he might have gone to the trouble of personalizing his weapon like that guy who shot up the Navy yard a while back.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    61. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The British empire's army was also vastly superior to the American citizens prior to the revolution. Didn't stop the American people from putting up some resistance which resulted in freedom from tyranny, did it? It can happen again.

    62. Re:Great... by foobar+bazbot · · Score: 2

      Well, GP is blabbering on without a clear idea of what he's talking about, but given that the military (and IMO only legitimate) definition of the "assault rifle" is a rifle or carbine that is (1) select-fire and (2) chambered for an intermediate cartridge, he's not quite wrong about the deer-hunting thing. (Most states actually forbid use of legally-owned select-fire weapons for hunting, but we'll focus on part 2.) Note however, that "small arms" in military parlance includes everything from handguns to sniper rifles to 7.62 machine guns -- the word "small" is meant in comparison to crew-served weapons -- so if he's right about the cartridges it's more due to luck than knowledge.

      OTOH, the news and entertainment media generally don't know or don't care much about firearms, and the general public (including witnesses of this attack) learn from there, so there's no telling what the term "assault rifle" actually refers to, so trying to figure out what cartridge he was using from the use of that term is a singularly foolish pursuit.

      Can you elaborate, and provide sources. I am not aware of specific rifles being banned for deer hunting. Nor am I aware of cartridge rules, other than a centerfire requirement.

      Of course cartridge legality varies state to state. Many states have rules based on some combination (rational or not) of one or more of: caliber, velocity, case length, and energy; the effect in most states is to prohibit modern assault rifle cartridges (e.g. 5.56 NATO and 5.45x39). Sometimes 7.62x39 is OK, sometimes not.

      I can't be bothered to make sure it's right, but a brief google for your state turned up this, which suggests that Oregon is more permissive and simple than most, apparently permitting any .22 caliber or larger centerfire for taking deer, while taking e.g. elk requires .24 caliber or larger.

      (Note that, if Oregon law is as simple as that page suggests, it's so loose as to defeat the point of having cartridge restrictions in the first place, as it seems to permit a carbine in .25 ACP for taking elk, while forbidding .220 Swift for elk or .17 Remington for deer.)

      If a specific cartridge, say the .223 were banned for its inability to kill, why is a bow legal?

      Well, there's two answers to that. The physics-geek one is to do some math about momentum and/or kinetic energy of arrows (which are much slower, but much, much heavier) vs. bullets, maybe throw in some notion of the difference between the wound channels produced by broadheads and bullets, and argue that some arrows are rather more lethal than some assault-rifle rounds (which, despite not having done the math, I'm pretty sure is true).

      But the real answer is: because laws aren't rational. Bowhunting is, at this point, a traditional sport pursued for fun, and banning it on humane grounds (whether or not this would make sense from a physics perspective) will be perceived as a killjoy assault on tradition, and will not be politically viable. As I said, I'm pretty sure some arrows exceed the performance of the rifle rounds in question anyway, so I suspect a more rational approach would involve requiring bowhunting setups to meet a minimum momentum or energy standard. However, this would be effectively banning bowhunting for those too small and/or weak to draw a bow with enough energy to meet the requirements, and would be portrayed as an assault on tradition and discrimination against women bowhunters, and would likewise be politically unviable. By contrast, a restriction on rifle chamberings just means a few hunters need to buy a new rifle, then go on hunting -- some will grumble, some will see it as a good excuse to buy the gun they wanted but their wife wouldn't let them buy, but it won't be near as disruptive to the sport.

    63. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If guns were outlawed, the perpetrator would use a so-called "assault knife" or "assault baseball bat" to commit the crimes with.

      Well yeah, but the body count would be a lot lower.

    64. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Me gusta

    65. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was dealing with the TSA

    66. Re:Great... by jcr · · Score: 1

      For a more recent example, look at Vietnam.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    67. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fast n Furious 2.0!

    68. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you suggesting that making people too scared to congregate in public places is ineffective?

    69. Re:Great... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's my point Airports are full of armed guards and police... At least UK ones are. Men and women, with guns, loaded, maintained, trained in their use and ready to act. Didn't seem to help here.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    70. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The body count is one, with six injured. That sounds like a pretty reasonable (if low) count for a knifing spree.

    71. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it was. The "if I had a gun on me" crowd are law abiding citizens and wouldn't "have a gun on [them]" if was illegal.

    72. Re:Great... by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 2

      Australia banned such weapons and mass shootings dropped from 1 every 18 months to 1 (arguable) in 17 years. The strategy does indeed work.

      (The total number of firearms is higher than ever. It's the types that matter.)

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    73. Re:Great... by scotts13 · · Score: 1

      Just what we need, now we'll have a security checkpoint before our security checkpoint to prevent you from bringing a gun into the security checkpoint.

      My girlfriend actually suggested that today.

    74. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, a vocal minority of Americans love guns -- many more own one without having that attitude about them, and a hell of a lot of people dislike them to varying degrees.

    75. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fuck off with using us to support your idiotic world view. Australia does NOT have lower violent crime because the government took away lots of guns, we have lower violent crime because we aren't a nation of asshats. There are plenty of gun-toting criminals here, the gun control lobby did nothing but take guns away from people willing to surrender them. Now this may come as a shock, but the people willing to surrender their guns are not the same people willing to use guns in a bank robbery.

      Also, fuck off assuming all of Australia is happy about our absurdly tight gun laws. We are NOT unanimously agreed that they work. They didn't stop recent shootouts between bikie gangs in Melbourne, who seem to have access to any gun they want. Yes, we have tight gun laws. Has it stopped gun crime? No. Has it taken guns out of the hands of criminals? No. Does it get used as a political crutch every time some politician is looking for a cheap point? Yes.

    76. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Assult rifle" is a valid term. You are probably thinking of "assult weapon" which is a term made up by legislators for a riffle with scarry-looking cosmetic features. Though, as you point out, there is a good chance that the news is improperly using the term "assult riffle" for what is actually nothing more than a hunting rifle.

    77. Re:Great... by dinfinity · · Score: 1

      Assault rifles don't exist until someone commits assault with a rifle. At that point, any rifle is an assault rifle.

      WRONG.
      The 'definition' of assault rifle does not depend on what is done with it, but on the ammo it fires, the ergonomic design of the weapon and whether it is at least semi-automatic, all of which reflect the use cases this class of rifles was designed for.

      You're right that most members of the press know nothing about guns (or, honestly, about anything at all) and generally talk out of their ass, but that doesn't necessarily mean the use of the term 'assault rifle' isn't warranted or is superfluous.

      I hate to do this to you, but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

    78. Re:Great... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      The interesting thing is that the article linked to never refers to the weapon as an "assault rifle". It is repeatedly referred to as a "high-powered rifle", which is pretty much the opposite of an "assault rifle" (which fired rather anemic rounds).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    79. Re:Great... by TWX · · Score: 1

      I find beauty in most people, clothed, as they are now. I can picture them based on their kindness or their accomplishments. I don't picture them with rolls of fat or cellulite or distended and stretched tissues. I don't care if that's how they are, that is not beautiful.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    80. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given how well set up airports are for mass shootings (unarmed people in nice tight lines, trapped on at least two sides), and how much they are a source of frustration for so many people (and how many people get turned away or harassed by TSA agents), how many airport shootings have there been? The gun ban seems surprisingly effective.

    81. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's become a phrase in some situations where you wave away a hard problem by having more and more layers of the same, turtles all the way down.

      Kind of like triple DES?

    82. Re:Great... by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      I hate to do this to you but the first sentence from your link:

      An assault rifle is a selective fire (selective between semi-automatic, automatic and/or burst fire) rifle...

      I don't know what rifle this guy used but it is extremely likely it wasn't an assault rifle by that definition. Most likely it was a semi-automatic only.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    83. Re:Great... by Smauler · · Score: 4, Informative

      Whereas since banning handguns in the UK, handgun crime has gone up (that is, crimes involving handguns, not possession of one), and all firearm crime has gone up by more. Look at the graph on this page. about 1/2 the way down. Handguns were banned in 1997, when gun crime was on a downward curve.

      Also, see this(PDF, sorry about the google cruft, can't be bothered editing) police statistics report. It shows that serious handgun crime more than doubled in the 4 years after they were banned, despite having been dropping for the previous 10 years or so, when they were legal.

      I don't own a gun, probably never will, but I dislike the government telling me what I can and can't have based on poor logic. Also, It had been demonstrably shown that in the UK, barring other factors (and I doubt there were _that_ many other factors), banning handguns increased handgun crime.

    84. Re: Great... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Look up "Mississippi enhanced carry". I can carry a gun anywhere except a courtroom that's in session (unless judge permits), a police station/jail/detention facility, or where prohibited by federal law (e.g., the post office). Anywhere else is perfectly legal. Even if there's a sign saying "No weapons", it's only trespassing if they ask me to leave and I refuse.

    85. Re:Great... by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      Just a wild guess here, but perhaps gun owners were obeying laws that disallow carrying guns at the airport.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    86. Re:Great... by TWX · · Score: 2

      I've been through Heathrow, in fact I was flying internationally the day that the Christmas Day Bomber attempted to blow up a plane, and a few days later for the return home.

      The experience in Heathrow was far, far different than any experience that I've had in American airports. It felt like there was a level of professionalism in London that I've never seen in American airports since the aftermath of September 11th. Honestly I felt like there was more professionalism before the Jihadis changed the status quo.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    87. Re:Great... by TWX · · Score: 1

      They showed a picture of the firearm, it looked like an AR-15-derivative. I don't think that it's irrational to call it an assault rifle, as the AR-15/M-16 program was designed for a military/antipersonnel scope.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    88. Re: Great... by Archwyrm · · Score: 1

      Hi, I'm in the military, specifically the Army and began my career as an Infantryman. 1. We have no "definition" of an "assault rifle". A rifle is just a rifle, whether belonging to friendly forces or a threat weapon. 2. A 7.62 mm machine IS a crew served weapon, i.e.: the M240B or the M60 that preceded it. In a dismounted mode there will be a gunner and an assistant gunner who carries a tripod and extra ammunition. A very fortunate gun team (or Squad, since extra ammo will be cross loaded) has an ammo bearer also. I cannot speak to the accuracy of the rest of your post as the subject matter does not fall within my expertise but I can only hope that it is not equally as poorly researched as your military knowledge.

      --
      Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. -- Mussolini
    89. Re:Great... by TWX · · Score: 1

      One can argue that any weapon specifically designed to be used against people could count, and those designed to be used against people that carry fairly large amounts of ammunition would easily qualify.

      The news showed the rifle, it looked like an AR-15/M-16 derivative. That program was created to provide a military rifle for antipersonnel use. Not for personal defense, not for hunting. I would argue that makes it qualify as an assault rifle.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    90. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SHHHHH someone in the media said "assault rifle", which is the only reason that statistic exists! Keep your liberal lying media statistics out of our faces!

    91. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't think one deadbeat with a gun is going to be able to defend himself against the army, do you? You'd be dead in the initial assault. There's no real threat to the government from you - the threat is against you from the government, and there's not a damned thing you can do about it, no matter how many guns you have: they have a million or so more men than you, most of whom are combat hardened.

      ...which makes me think, pre-War Germany engaged in a number of smaller conflicts to test their theories and train their men in combat.

    92. Re:Great... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      permit a carbine in .25 ACP for taking elk, while forbidding .220 Swift for elk or .17 Remington for deer

      But that's safe, because a .25 isn't even going to get through the elk's skin except at point-blank range.

    93. Re:Great... by demonlapin · · Score: 2

      Airports are not full of armed guards. Security, yes, but not armed guards. And we're in favor of citizens carrying weapons, not just cops.

    94. Re:Great... by 0111+1110 · · Score: 0

      Actually I think the logic is something like, "whatever the government is likely to use against me in a realistic scenario is something that I should be able to use to defend myself against them." It is highly unlikely that the government would be trying to use nukes, artillery, tanks, or bombers against little 'ol me. Why bother when a single 22 handgun would be sufficient?

      When the police/SWAT and FBI stop packing heat then it might be okay to disarm regular citizens. Until then we have the right to defend ourselves with something more than good intentions. This is why I also object to trying to outlaw armor penetrating rounds. Cops and FBI agents will typically be wearing body armor and those rounds are necessary to defend yourself against them.

      If the entire US army has orders to take you down having an entire third world army at your disposal would not be enough to save your life, but that is a straw man situation.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    95. Re:Great... by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      I hate guns, but I love having the right to defend myself against armed attackers. So if I feel that my life is in danger for whatever reason I would like the freedom to buy and legally own a firearm. You don't have to love guns to want to be able to fire back when someone is shooting at you.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    96. Re:Great... by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Good point about the luggage. As soon as you try to screen the luggage you have just made another check point with a bunch of naked unarmed people standing there with targets painted on their naked backs.

      I don't think there is *any* practical or even somewhat impractical way of stopping future attacks like this. You could outlaw guns completely. Wouldn't matter.

      If you move the checkpoint outside the airport that makes it even easier. A sniper could pick people off from a kilometer away.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    97. Re:Great... by craigminah · · Score: 1

      Ban guns and they kill with knives, bombs, bats, or something else. Guns are not the root of the problem and your way of thinking is very superficial and simplistic.

    98. Re:Great... by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      So they just have an airplane fetish then? If you want to instill fear proving to people that they have nowhere to hide, that nothing can protect them, would seem awfully effective to me. That is why suicide bombers in busy security lines is pure genuis. There just is no defense against that. Machine gunning the line is not quite as effective, but it's not half bad either.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    99. Re: Great... by craigminah · · Score: 1

      Exactly, thanks for clarifying my point. I'm in one of the few Air Force combat (support) units, we typically use 5.56mm and 7.62mm rifles (e.g. M-16, M-4, M-249, etc.) and the occasional M-9 pistol. "Assault weapon" is a term the media likes to use to scare people which subsequently allows the left to push their gun-control agenda. The bottom line is this is a people problem, not a gun problem. There is some underlying issue in America that's pushing people to their breaking point...again, take away the guns and they'll make bombs, poisons, use knives, etc. Maybe it's due in part to the "wussification of America", the PC police, the horrible economy, or some other problem, perceived or real.

    100. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we'll have a security checkpoint before our security checkpoint

      Welcome to Moscow City, now in your local US Town...

    101. Re:Great... by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      I don't watch videos if I have to enable javascript, so I'll just guess. They brought in cannons to eat the guns?

    102. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Australia was never a democracy.

    103. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me and my gun? No, not that much of a threat.

      Us and our guns? That's a different story, and in fact the entire purpose of the Second Amendment.

      At this point, you may be tempted to trot out the old "tank trumps rifle" argument. I suggest you think long and hard before trying it, because it isn't the smackdown you may think it is.

    104. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meanwhile, NZ is armed to the teeth, and they aren't getting killed by loons.

      You nigger.

    105. Re:Great... by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      The news showed the rifle, it looked like an AR-15/M-16 derivative. That program was created to provide a military rifle for antipersonnel use. Not for personal defense, not for hunting. I would argue that makes it qualify as an assault rifle.

      You can argue it all you like, but it's not. Standard issue military rifles like the M16 use fairly light ammunition. In part because it's easier to carry it, and more of it. And because it's not necessarily better to outright kill your opponent in warfare. Most traditional military's do not like to leave their wounded. So you make them much less effective if you wound your opponent rather than kill them. If you kill half of a 100 man group, the other 50 will still be firing at you. If you wound 50 instead, then more resources will be diverted to treat the wounded. If you take away the automatic functionality of these weapons, you seriously degrade their usefulness.

      They pack much less punch than many hunting rifles. An M16 fires a NATO 5.56 round. The bullet is the same size as a .22 caliber round at 60 grain and has a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps and impacts at about 1300 ft/lbs. A .30 06 uses a 7.62 mm bullet. It's 125 to 220 gr. It travels at 2800 fps and hits with over twice the impact at 2800 ft/lbs. A .30 06 also has a longer effective range and accurate at a longer range too.A .30-30 is not much different. Even a .308 packs more punch.

      Many of the other scary "assault weapons" are pretty dismal compared to a hunting rifle. The short barrel of the 9mm sub machine guns are barely over 1100 fps and impact at under 400 ft/ lbs. So once you take away their advantage of automatic fire, they become much less effective and are banned because of perception more than anything. "It's scary looking and appears to be similar to what the military uses, so it must be the same thing"

    106. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm sorry, but you've been lied to.

      The homicide rates in Australia did not decline after their gun ban. Or rather, they declined (averaged), but at the same rate they were declining before. In fact, that brief spike that you see on the graph is right after the ban.

      Suicides also do not show any correlation with gun ban. Suicides by gun declined, yes (again, at the same rate they were declining prior to the ban), but suicides by hanging actually increased.

      Violent crime rate, meanwhile, has increased, mainly due to increase in assaults, and in particular of sexual assault. Robbery rate actually spiked after the ban, but then went back to where it was. Everything else didn't change.

      So, no. Australia did not solve anything, the laws were purely "feel good" kind of stuff.

    107. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Can you elaborate, and provide sources. I am not aware of specific rifles being banned for deer hunting. Nor am I aware of cartridge rules, other than a centerfire requirement. If a specific cartridge, say the .223 were banned for its inability to kill, why is a bow legal?

      I'm not aware of specific rifles being banned, but there are plenty of places which restrict caliber for deer. The most common lower bound is .240" / 6mm - in USA, it is in place in Washington State, for example, and a few others; UK also has a similar law.

    108. Re: Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      "Assault rifle" is not an "army" definition, but it is indeed well defined in the context of firearms, ever since Germans came up with their Sturmgewehr 44 (it literally translates as "assault rifle").

      "Assault weapon", on the other hand, is a lawyer invention, and came to being with the first AWB.

    109. Re:Great... by Bartles · · Score: 1

      I like toitles.

    110. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You missed GP's point. "Assault rifle" would indicate that the weapon is capable of fully automatic or burst fire; obtaining such is not impossible, but is a very costly and tedious process. We're talking about several thousand dollars in cash ($10k+ is more likely for an assault rifle, in fact), and several months of waiting time to receive the BATFE transfer tax stamp. It's not impossible for someone to do all this and then use it in a crime, but it is highly unlikely - to the best of my knowledge, there is no recorded case of a legally obtained automatic weapon ever used to commit a crime in USA.

    111. Re:Great... by tutufan · · Score: 1

      Depends on how they define winning. In budgetary terms, they're doing great...

    112. Re: Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of states that do not have onerous restrictions on firearm carry, including airports prior to security checkpoints. It is perfectly legal to do the latter in Washington State, for example.

    113. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Airport = "gun free zone," just the same as schools and malls tend to be

      Airports before the security checkpoint are not gun-free zones in most states. They might be in CA, though (that whole state is pretty close to being one big gun-free zone).

    114. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The total number of mass shootings may have dropped. The total number of homicides did not (or rather it did, but at the same rate it was dropping before). So the same number of people die, you just don't get to read it on the front page of the national newspaper. Out of sight, out of mind?

    115. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're beautiful on the inside, the TSA scanners can see that, right?

    116. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I suppose it could have been a bolt action SKS or something.

      SKS is not a bolt-action rifle. It is a semi-automatic rifle, which has a fixed 10-round magazine in its normal configuration, but which can be trivially converted to feed from 20-round or even 30-round fixed or detachable magazines. Furthermore, some Chinese versions of SKS utilize AK mags.

    117. Re:Great... by radarskiy · · Score: 2

      "If they just want to kill people, there are plenty of other places to do that at lower risk. "

      They don't want to just kill people, they want to terrorize people. That's why they are called terrorists.

      The security line is what is claimed to keep you safe from terrorists. Attacking it specifically demonstrates that it makes you *less* safe. And to crib the joke from another comment, there's no security line before the security line, so the risks of getting caught are lower than trying to get actually inside of some secure area.

      My conclusion is that terrorist on average are dumb.

    118. Re:Great... by antdude · · Score: 1

      Um, this gunner was before getting to an airline.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    119. Re:Great... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Obviously, gun control only works on criminals.

      America is TOTALLY different from Australia.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    120. Re: Great... by snowsnoot · · Score: 1

      You need to go watch Bowling for Columbine. Australia is a good example of low gun crime, for whatever reason. Maybe the USA can have a look and see whats being done right? Martin Bryant contributed to it, no doubt about that. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

    121. Re: Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In all honesty, it's the only real mass shooting that Australia has had.

    122. Re:Great... by StikyPad · · Score: 2

      First, there is no such thing as an "assault rifle." There are bolt action, semi-auto, full auto, and (as you mentioned), 3-round bursts, trigger mechanisms, none of which are exclusive to rifles. Assault is something you can do with a firearm (or knife, or hands), not a characteristic of the weapon itself. Calling something an assault rifle is almost as ridiculous as calling a children "suicide bomb delivery platforms." I say almost because there's no question that the firearms people often think of as "assault rifles" are primarily designed for shooting other people. But so are most pistols, yet nobody calls them "assault pistols."

      Second, the so-called assault weapon ban was enacted in 1994 and expired in 2004. It had nothing to do with fully automatic weapons and, in fact, only applied to semi-automatic weapons. It drew a rather arbitrary line as to what was and was not an assault weapon, like where the magazine attaches, and whether the stock extends (which is silly, since people have different arm lengths.)

      Third, what you're thinking of is the restriction on fully automatic weapons, which does not ban said weapons, only regulates their transfer to varying degrees depending on whether they were in private hands before 1986. It's perfectly legal to buy a fully automatic weapon manufactured before that date, though there are a lot of hoops to jump through, and they're not cheap. One can also purchase a new fully automatic weapon if he obtains a Federal Firearms License. People who go through the legal process have, almost by definition, demonstrated that they are trustworthy. Criminals tend to just modify cheap weapons to make them fully automatic anyway, or make do with other weapons.

      None of this is to say what the laws should be, only what they are. I have my opinions, but I respect those who disagree, because I feel that there are valid arguments on both sides, even if I think the other side's arguments don't outweigh my own personal views. Firearm regulations are something that I feel very strongly should be decided democratically. I don't think there is a "right" answer, only varying strategies to keep as many people safe as possible, which I think both sides want. I tend to favor empirical data, but in the absence of that, we have to make the best decisions we can, hopefully in a reasonable and rational way.

    123. Re:Great... by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      ..technically the whole area around the airport is one big ass security checkpoint.. so they say, so that the tsa can search everything in artillery range from the airport without warrant if they want.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    124. Re: Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This will get me modded into the ground, but you do realize that the reason Australia has lower crime rates has more to do with their history of racial/ethnic/cultural discrimination than anything else, right? On top of that, they have a moat, lower income disparity, and lower rates of poverty. Few countries have all of these on their side, and their gun crime rate wasn't very high before... Germany is only slightly worse, has far more liberal gun laws, and doesn't have the same legal restrictions on suppressors that the US has, but they have only slightly more gun-related crime.

      There are a lot of reasons beyond these that the US is worse, but it isn't simply gun availability that controls crime rates. If the explosive environment necessary for criminal activity to flourish is there, it'll happen, regardless of what weapons are used. Look at overall crime in the UK, which has grown worse following increases in the areas mentioned above in spite of a handgun ban.

    125. Re:Great... by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      Sure they will. You'll have a live-in TSA agent to make sure you don't bring anything harmful on the plane, even if you aren't planning to go on one.

      But they don't have enough TSA agents to do that realistically, so they will institute prima-nocta to fill their ranks. Only the finest specimens you see.

      --
      ~X~
    126. Re:Great... by undefinedreference · · Score: 1

      "Assault rifles" are, by definition, automatic at some level (fire more than one shot with a single trigger pull). It's improbable that this person had any type of automatic weapon or assault rifle. Semi-auto isn't unreasonable to expect, in which case it was probably simply a "rifle", which might not sound as menacing, but that's exactly what it was. This doesn't make it less deadly. In fact, curiously, automatic weapons in the hands of untrained people tend to be less effective because the shooters waste more ammunition and can't control them as well. Semi-automatic weapons are much easier to get accurate hits with, while burst-fire weapons are far easier to kill with (especially with small-caliber ammunition, like modern assault rifles used by American forces).

      To describe the weapon as an "assault rifle" is absolutely incorrect usage and pure sensationalism.

    127. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lower than 1? This dude just ran around with at least 40-50lbs of equipment and ammunition and only succeeded in killing one person (and apparently maiming a handful of armed people). Most crazies could do that with an ice pick. With a pipe or PR-24, they'd probably be even more effective.

    128. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm on your side, but I'm also fairly certain that legally obtained automatic weapons being used in crimes are why the NFA of 1934 was written and passed. Organized criminals in the prohibition era made extensive use of automatic weapons. They were never a great threat to the general public, though, having been used almost exclusively on other criminals and the police. All automatic firearms that are currently owned privately were manufactured before the machine gun ban in the FOPA of 1986 (another example of a bill that was packed full of crap - we needed an amendment by 1850 to limit bill size to no more than 4 paragraphs with a single central focus to avoid these monster bills with tag-alongs, pork earmarks, and that allow Nancy Pelosi-isms like "We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it."), but transfers were already pretty complicated and expensive well before that due to the NFA and the GCA of 1968.

    129. Re:Great... by Cimexus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      All quite true - some criminals still have guns in Australia (though not many, as a proportion of total criminals). However they are almost invariably handguns, shotguns or single-shot rifles (not semi autos which tend to the be weapon of choice in the US it seems). Furthermore, it's very rare that they are used in random attacks or sprees such as you see in the US. Think about when you hear of a shooting in Australia these days. 95+% of the time it's criminal-on-criminal (related to bikie gangs or other forms of organized crime). Other more petty crims with guns might use them in a holdup or robbery, but rarely seem to actually ~use~ them (i.e. they use the weapon to threaten the victim). I can't recall more than a couple of instances of actual murder of an innocent person or people with a firearm in Australia (outside of organized crime) in the last decade. One in particular I recall from a couple of years ago where someone shot, intending to hit person X, but missed and hit person Y, way in the distance, who was a poor truck driver that just happened to driving past. But still, incidents like that are rare.

      Source: anecdotal admittedly, but I'm a dual Aussie-US citizen who spends a decent amount of time in both countries. The situation in Australia ain't perfect of course, but I don't really care about bikie gangs shooting each other up to be honest - good riddance. You don't see criminals with guns killing indiscriminately, or the mass shooting sprees, that you see in the US.

    130. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Yes, I should have qualified this as "legally obtained under NFA", since that's what I meant.

      BTW, according to Wikipedia, I'm still wrong here: full auto weapons were used twice to commit murder (though one of those cases had police officer as the perpetrator), and "fewer than ten" known instances of overall use of full auto weapons in any kind of crime (including non-violent offenses, such as improper bookkeeping on behalf of the holder), according to a testimony of an ATF director.

    131. Re:Great... by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Indeed. While I support the principle behind people being armed to defend themselves against injustice perpetrated on them by those wearing badges and carrying writs by the government, the instant you take a threatening action (or are even perceived as a threat simply for owning weapons), you will have the entire power of your local police department, SWAT, FBI, maybe even national guard and (potentially, if it all goes out the window), the full weight of the most powerful and over-funded military on the planet bearing down on you. Not to mention, the full force of the government and media propaganda system to demonize you (even if you are somehow legitimately defending yourself against immediate threat of some sort of "tyranny".

      Unless people get to stockpile tanks, rocket launchers, ICBMs, warships, apache helicopters, armed drones, landmines, grenades, F-22 jets, and nukes . . . you really don't stand a chance.

      It's a situation where the principle is thoroughly sound, but in a modern world, it is impractical. The People can arm themselves such that they could defend themselves against a mugger, rapist, home invasion, looting after a catastrophe, and so on . . . but you absolutely have no shot at defending yourself (even justly) against any of the powers I listed above.

      In America, if you are targeted, mistreated, abused, or threatened by authorities, your only real recourse is to shut the fuck up, do the fuck as you're told, and hope to fuck that you still have enough rights that you can somehow get a decent lawyer, and that you can seek redress through the legal system that is harming you. If you're lucky, you'll see justice. If not, maybe you'll get disappeared or painted as some sort of a horrible human being in a press release that is parroted throughout the media as truth.

      I mean, I guess you could take arms against a police or military force in this country . . . but you pretty much better be expecting to die rather than effect any sort of "change" or "justice" as a result of your action.

    132. Re:Great... by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Uh . . . precisely because of what you just stated? Criminals who are going to go on a shooting rampage aren't concerned with the legality of their weapon possession or where they are possessing it and law-abiding citizens do. Therefore, any criminal carrying a gun into a place where law-abiding citizens are prevented from doing so is going to have a massive upper-hand.

    133. Re:Great... by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Though it is starting to change in some places at some times, that is not how US airports work. We are not (yet) a third world country with armed military stationed at every door and lots of checkpoints where you are interrogated by a guy in camouflage. The day this becomes common place (and it will) and people just roll over and accept it (and they will) is going to be a pretty fucking sad day to be an American. The next step will be just full-on armed military presence roaming the streets with loud-speakers blaring pre-recorded propaganda. "See something; Say something!" and so on.

      Of course, it is already *pretty* bad. Just without the full-on "welcome to the warzone" vibe. TSA employees act like they're the supreme authority and practically deputized US Marshalls. The moment you step into the airport, they're screaming at you and yelling at you like a drill-sergeant. It's unprofessional. It's gross. It's a great demonstration of pretty much everything that is wrong with how our government treats citizens and how our citizens allow our government to treat us. At least if we just had armed SWAT or military (yes, I know that isn't legal) all over the place, it would be more frank and honest about the society we're living in and we'd be forced to confront it and do something about it.

    134. Re:Great... by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Getting worked up about the occasional mass shooting is kind of silly, anyway. Yeah, it makes for great sensational news headlines, but if you really want to save more people, put that effort into stricter punishment for drunk driving and driving while distracted or any of a number of other millions of things that each kill more people every month or so than all the mass shootings since the country [US] existed, *combined*.

    135. Re:Great... by spiralx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Chart one on the police report you linked to shows there were fewer crimes where firearms were used in 2011 than in 1997, the year the handgun ban went into effect. That's despite the fact that

      The method used for counting the number of firearms offences in England and Wales was changed on 1 April 1998 and, as a result, the reported number of offences has been seen to increase across some categories of offence.

      If you look at the second chart then you can even see that the "big increase" of firearm use in 2003 was nothing to do with handguns anyway, it was mostly from air guns.

    136. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit... Violent crime went up... homicides stayed the same... just google it. Heres the first link that shows up. You are the one that's irrational, so keep sucking your own cock.

      http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/?Article_ID=17847

    137. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In those cases you don't need to be able to protect yourself from all that weaponry or kill all government agents targeting you unjustly. You just need to be able to kill one or two of them - and to have them know and fear that you (meaning, any person subjected to blatant injustice) can do that. Yes, this is terrorism. And yes, this is perfectly fine and justified.

    138. Re:Great... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      .22 short fired from a revolver

      .22 is a tiny caliber...but it's not much smaller than .223 (AR15/M16).

      There's a BIG difference in velocity between pistol/AR15.

      --
      No sig today...
    139. Re:Great... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      And they're all lizards, ergo "cold blood"

      --
      No sig today...
    140. Re:Great... by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Bullshit AC, as an Australian I have never encountered anyone who thinks our new gun laws have not been a great move. You are full of shit.

    141. Re:Great... by Falconhell · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sorry but that is irrelevant. Before we got rid of the guns we had 13 gun massacres in 20 years. None in the 20 years since. Clear proof it worked to anyone but US gun nuts.

    142. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Why, exactly, is it irrelevant? A gun massacre is nothing but a series of homicides that all happen at the same time (in fact, the definition is rather arbitrary - e.g. in US it is considered such if 5 or more people die). If the overall homicide rate did not drop, the same number of people still die every year - you just don't read about it in newspapers because it's isolated incidents, and therefore not newsworthy. But, in the end, do you care about actual dead people, or about the lack of disturbance in your daily news?

    143. Re:Great... by Alarash · · Score: 1

      This is already the case in Israel. You have security check points before reaching the terminal (while still in your car). Then before entering the terminal you can be randomly checked (I was, once, because I wore a light jacket in the middle of summer and that was suspicious). Then you get an extra security check (with luggage x-ray) before reaching the check-in counters. Then you get the "usual" security check where you stuff is x-ray'd and you go through a metal detector. Then you get the passport check. As an international traveler this is annoying to me, but at least the Israelis are quite efficient and all this goes rather quick. I hope the same doesn't happen in the US because from what I've seen, Americans are not as efficient.

    144. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's my point Airports are full of armed guards and police... At least UK ones are. Men and women, with guns, loaded, maintained, trained in their use and ready to act. Didn't seem to help here.

      how so? a man armed with a scurry "ASSALT WAPONS DESIGNED FOR SPRAY FIRE FROM THE HIP WITH BABBY KILLING HALLOW POINT HEAT SEAKING BOOOLITS" that hoplophobes are so scared of managed to kill ONE PERSON before being stopped by police.

      seems like they worked just fine to me.

    145. Re:Great... by deimtee · · Score: 2

      Your government has nukes, artillery, tanks, bombers, etc. Are you going to demand access to these too? After all your logic seems to be 'whatever government can has, I want too'.

      Any objective reading of the second amendment would seem to indicate that that is the case. If you don't like it, you should work to get the second amendment changed, not work to violate your constitution.

      --
      I'm guessing that wasn't on their radar screen...
    146. Re:Great... by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 2

      More like, prepare for this to look like a warzone as airports start to resemble third-world combat zones. Soldiers with assault rifles on their arms staking out every airport entrance and jeeps on patrol around the airport every hour of the day.

      What you meant to say there was:

      More like, prepare for this to look like a warzone as US airports start to resemble third-world combat zones. Soldiers with assault rifles on their arms staking out every US airport entrance and jeeps on patrol around the US airport every hour of the day.

      Flew out of an airport in Croatia a few months ago, a country that has about, oh, a million times more experience with violence and terror than the US. A passenger asked an airport staff member whether he had to take his shoes off during the check-in process. The staff member said no, but if he was carrying firearms he had to notify them.

      When was the last time you heard of a hijacked aircraft (or whatever the TSA are supposed to be dealing with) in Croatia?

    147. Re:Great... by hairyfish · · Score: 1

      So the same number of people die, you just don't get to read it on the front page of the national newspaper. Out of sight, out of mind?

      3000 people died on 9/11, since then nearly 400,000 people have died on the roads, so yeah, some things get more visibility than others. And if you can't see the difference between bad guys shooting bad guys and crazy guys shooting innocent kids then fuck you.

    148. Re:Great... by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      Did not seem to help, compared to...?
      I mean you should cite an incident with similar circumstances where nobody armed was around to stop the guy.

      I do not imply that in this case the reaction of guards has been efficient, anyway.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    149. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is actually how it works at the airport in Jordan. There's a security checkpoint between the building entrance and the airliner service counters.

    150. Re:Great... by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      So, no. Australia did not solve anything, the laws were purely "feel good" kind of stuff.

      Actually the number of mass shootings has decreased by a cool 100% since the ban came into effect.

      People who want to kill other people will find a way. Glassings and stabbings are quite popular in this country. Most gun crime is some thug shooting some other thug. One thing we don't get a lot of down here (or really any of down here) is indiscriminate killing of random people en mass. That seems to be a thing reserved for countries that let any loon and their dog own an automatic weapon.

    151. Re:Great... by c · · Score: 1

      You missed GP's point.

      Yes, I'm pretty sure I did.

      A guy basically walked into an airport and started shooting, and half the comments on slashdot are bent on discussing the description of the weapon used, how he got it, whether or not it was legal, what kind of magazine he was using, what kind of firing pattern he used, and/or how he acquired the weapon.

      I doubt any of that shit mattered much to the shooter, and even less to his victims. So yeah, I don't really get the point.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    152. Re:Great... by thegarbz · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Way to miss the point. A gun massacre is not simply a series of homicides. They are often indiscriminate and not targeted at anyone in particular. Hell our last massacre involved shooting mostly a bunch of tourists.

      The normal run of the mill homicides we get down here are targeted and deliberate acts of usually pre-meditated murder. Most if not all involving guns are related to some gangland crimes. The remainder are simple stabbings.

      Now I'm not sure about you but I would want someone to have to stand within punching distance of me if they were to try and kill me, which in this country is very likely, but no so much in yours.

    153. Re:Great... by 12WTF$ · · Score: 1

      First, there is no such thing as an "assault rifle."

      Oh I get it now. All guns are DEFENCE weapons. Gotcha.

      --
      Cryonics - Keep cool and carry on.
    154. Re:Great... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      That's not really true. Both sides had rifles. The British army had more artillery, but didn't have enough support infrastructure to effectively deploy it. About the only thing that the British did have was better training. And most of the British army was occupied in Europe - the USA was not considered a serious priority until long after it was too late.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    155. Re:Great... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      First, there is no such thing as an "assault rifle."

      From wikipedia:

      An assault rifle is a selective fire (selective between semi-automatic, automatic and/or burst fire) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Note the difference between the assault rifle and the battle rifle. Assault rifles use smaller cartridges and are used at closer ranges than battle rifles. The larger sized rifle cartridges used in battle rifles make fully automatic fire more difficult. Fully automatic fire refers to an ability for a rifle to fire continuously while the trigger is pressed; "burst-capable" fire refers to an ability of a rifle to fire a small yet fixed multiple number of rounds with but one press of the trigger; in contrast, semi-automatic refers to an ability to fire one round per press of a trigger. The presence of selective fire modes on assault rifles permits more efficient use of rounds to be fired for specific needs, versus having a single mode of operation, such as fully automatic, thereby conserving ammunition while maximizing on-target accuracy and effectiveness.

      Assault is something you can do with a firearm (or knife, or hands), not a characteristic of the weapon itself.

      Well done! You managed to find a ditionary! But on no! You stopped at the first definition.

      You know words have multiple, often relared meanings, right?

      2.
      a. A military attack, such as one launched against a fortified area or place.
      b. The concluding stage of an attack in which close combat occurs with the enemy.

      An assult rifle is a weapon used commonly in militry assults.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    156. Re: Great... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      According to this site there is a definition from the US Army but from context it's not like something you'd actually see as a major policy point, required to recite, or anything like that.

      On a seperate note, why do gun advocacy sites always have HTML styling that looks like the bastard child of Geocities and every single website created during the 1990s?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    157. Re:Great... by dinfinity · · Score: 1

      Because that is what I was saying, that the use of the term 'assault rifle' was warranted here. Right?
      Read my comment again and this time try actually thinking about what it is I said. ...
      Apology accepted.

      Also, try reading and quoting entire sentences. You missed a bit of definition there.

    158. Re:Great... by Tom · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but they've already solved this the other way:

      You'll be brought into a smal cabin, get a full-body-scan, then you'll have to undress, get a cavity search and then you'll be issued a state-owned Burka to wear for the rest of your trip.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    159. Re:Great... by felrom · · Score: 1

      If the country has a gun violence problem, and we seek to solve it by removing guns, then we'll still be left with a violence problem and we will have not actually fixed anything.

    160. Re:Great... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      or we could have a rational discussion about gun control...Nah

      When did the US last have a rational discussion about anything? Does anyone seriously believe the country is capable of it? How could it, when its political leadership is made of mutually hostile tribes that treat compromise as a defeat to be avoided at any cost?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    161. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next ignorant fucker who uses the "Assault Rifle" should be shot with a real one.

    162. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but I can't take seriously anyone who uses the term "bikie gangs". I just get this picture of big fat dudes riding bicycles with banana seats and sissy bars.

    163. Re:Great... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Airports are full of armed guards and police... At least UK ones are. Men and women, with guns, loaded, maintained, trained in their use and ready to act. Didn't seem to help here.

      According to the (ABC News) article, airport police stopped the gunman by shooting him, so your assertion is incorrect.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    164. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like you need spell check.

    165. Re: Great... by Archwyrm · · Score: 1

      From what I can tell, the 43 year old FSTC-CW-07-03-70 or something similar is no longer part of Army doctrine. However, you are welcome to look for yourself. Whether the term "assault rifle" was part of common military parlance in the Vietnam era, I don't know, but it certainly is not now.

      The definitive source for Army terms is FM 1-02 Operational Terms and Graphics (where you can find the definition of "assault", for example). It does not contain "assault rifle", however its scope is operational rather than tactical, so largely does not deal with weapon nomenclature.

      --
      Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. -- Mussolini
    166. Re:Great... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The point is that in European countries where guns are not easily available we don't have similar circumstances.

      The most comparable incident in the UK was when some would-be terrorists rammed their car into Glasgow airport. Their attack failed to do much damage, and they were then apprehended by unarmed members of the public. I seem to recall one guy kicked one of the terrorists in the bollocks so hard he fractured his foot.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    167. Re:Great... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      First, there is no such thing as an "assault rifle." There are bolt action, semi-auto, full auto, and (as you mentioned), 3-round bursts, trigger mechanisms, none of which are exclusive to rifles. Assault is something you can do with a firearm (or knife, or hands), not a characteristic of the weapon itself. Calling something an assault rifle is almost as ridiculous as calling a children "suicide bomb delivery platforms." I say almost because there's no question that the firearms people often think of as "assault rifles" are primarily designed for shooting other people. But so are most pistols, yet nobody calls them "assault pistols."

      I think you are missing the point. Hand guns are mostly for self defence. The military does not issue its soldiers with hand guns when they are assaulting the enemy, it gives them rifles. Hand guns have limited range, capacity and accuracy, so they are just not suited to that kind of action.

      While you are correct that the term "assault rifle" is somewhat poorly defined the basic criteria is that it is designed for killing people. Hunting rifles are typically single shot and designed for long range accuracy. Assault rifles are typically three shot or full auto and designed to be more portable, e.g. with a shorter barrel. They also have features like quick change high capacity ammunition cartridges that hunters don't have much use for.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    168. Re:Great... by cavebison · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but you've been lied to. The homicide rates [aic.gov.au] in Australia did not decline after their gun ban. Or rather, they declined (averaged), but at the same rate they were declining before. In fact, that brief spike that you see on the graph is right after the ban.

      Australian here. Well *I'm* sorry, but you're being deceptive, or simply cannot interpret information intelligently. I assume you're referring to graphs like this on that page. Yes, gun homicide was in decline, but certainly would have reached a level average at some point if the buybacks of 96 and 03 didn't occur. Who knows, they may have gone up. Nobody knows, because that did not happen. What *did* happen, after the buybacks, was that gun crime *plummeted*.

      So it had the desired effect, and you just can't get your little mind around that. You don't want to think about it, or present a balanced argument, because it doesn't suit your bias. Intentionally misrepresenting information to make a point is just sad.

      You may want (or not) to look at the graph on this page. Per 100,000 population, the gun homicide rate in the U.S. is ~3.6. In Australia it's ~0.1. U.K & Norway are the only two lower countries.

      If you support gun ownership, you support gun crime, simple as that. Gun are NOT knives. Guns have only ONE purpose. They are not made to cut your steak, or butter your bread. They are made to maim and kill people. Supporting guns is supporting what guns are for. Or can't you get your head around that either?

    169. Re:Great... by cavebison · · Score: 1

      Violent crime rate [aic.gov.au], meanwhile, has increased, mainly due to increase in assaults, and in particular of sexual assault.

      Again, you are misrepresenting. We have a big problem with motorcycle gangs here who, among others, import guns ILLEGALLY. 1 million guns were destroyed in the two buybacks of 97 and 03, but since then about 1 million guns have been smuggled in illegally.

      We have low gun homicide rate, but the main thing increasing it is actually *bikie gang wars*. That is not the same as in the U.S., where the "average person" can go on a rampage with a highly effective weapon. The stats are skewed by criminal organisations' use of guns here.

      You take a simplistic slant on a complex issue just to make it look like you have an argument. You don't.

    170. Re: Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I reject, as do many others, that selective fire is required to fit the assault rifle definition. Interchangeable parts, magazines, and designed purpose generally have a lot more to do with the effectiveness of a gun in an assault. I.e., a hunting rifle is generally not as effective as a purpose built carbine in an urban attack or cqc.

      Nonetheless, when I hear press say "assault weapon" or rifle, I picture a Chevy Nova as often as an M16.

    171. Re:Great... by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      Or yours, according to the Australian example: "the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the law's effectiveness."

      source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/

      Facts can be sooooo irritating.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    172. Re: Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, as this chart clearly points out they'd still be using assualt rifles. :P
      http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/guide_to_firearms_tfb-tfb5.jpg

    173. Re:Great... by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      The French won the War of American Independence, which is really better looked at as an important but not decisive campaign in a proxy war. Some historians have used the phrase "Second Hundred Years War". The French supplied many tens of thousands of rifles, an army nearly the size of the American one, most of the cannon and gunpowder, especially in the early stages of the war, and all of the naval power. Twenty French ships of the line were involved in the Battle of the Chesapeake, which led directly to the colonial's victory. Also, the French spent over a billion livres on the war, out of a total debt of about three billion livres.

      Americans get taught a fucked-up version of history; the reason why is left as an exercise to the reader. Regardless, the reason the Americans won that war had less to do with any particular virtue of the Americans, nor yet any failure of the British. When the country which has been the largest and most powerful in Europe for centuries, coming off its all-time peak (Louis XIV), decides to get seriously involved in one side of a revolution in order to hurt its rival, they tend to win. Panama has just as big a reason to celebrate its revolutionaries.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    174. Re: Great... by foobar+bazbot · · Score: 1

      Hi, I'm in the military, specifically the Army and began my career as an Infantryman. 1. We have no "definition" of an "assault rifle".

      Others have pointed to at least one definition. If you don't have a current definition contradicting that, I think that makes me correct.

      2. A 7.62 mm machine IS a crew served weapon, i.e.: the M240B or the M60 that preceded it.

      It was likely before your time, but 7.62 cartridges were rather popular in the LMG role before the Minimi and RPK-74. BAR? Bren? RPK? (Indeed, despite the RPK-74 in 5.45x39, RPK variants in 7.62x39 are still widely used in third-world militaries.) Yes, these days most significant militaries use LMGs in 5.56 or 5.45x39, but that doesn't mean the classic LMGs have ceased to exist, or have been "promoted" to GPMGs by virtue of their caliber's unpopularity.

      I make no claims that my knowledge is infallible or even particularly well-researched*, but it seems you're assuming anything that doesn't align with what you see today in the U.S. Army is due to "poor research", rather than considering that some people might have broader knowledge of military terminology by drawing on the recent past of militaries throughout the anglosphere.

      *If you'd told me that the Army does have a definition for "assault rifle", but it's different from the one I'm familiar with, I'd accept the correction -- I'm not in today's Army, and you are.

    175. Re:Great... by Skynyrd · · Score: 1

      Check up on Connecticut's gun laws, it seems they outlawed hunting with AR-15s and maybe some other weapons on public lands.

      I bet you can still use the the same cartridge shot from a different gun, like a Mini-30. Later, they'll be able to say that an AR-15 isn't a hunting rifle, and should be banned.

    176. Re:Great... by foobar+bazbot · · Score: 1

      permit a carbine in .25 ACP for taking elk, while forbidding .220 Swift for elk or .17 Remington for deer

      But that's safe, because a .25 isn't even going to get through the elk's skin except at point-blank range.

      Heh, fair point. ;)

    177. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yo dawg, I heard you like security so we drugged you and every non-rich citizen and threw you all into individual padded cells where you will spend the rest of your lives in safety.

    178. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find that in areas of the US where gun laws are more lax, allowing concealed or open carry, there tends to be less trouble. If everyone has a gun or could have one without any effort, who is going to want to start shit? You'd have ten guns pointed at your head before you could do anything.

    179. Re: Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Thing is, assault rifle was never designed to be "effective in an assault". To remind, the etymology of the world goes back to the German StG 44. StG is short for Sturmgewehr, which literally means "assault rifle", and is the name that Hitler came up for it to inspire the troops - Nazis really liked the word "assault" (see also: Der Sturmer, Volkssturm etc). In reality, it's just a better take on a regular infantry rifle, with no particular preference to defense or assault.

      As other countries also adopted similar weapons, the word became a general label for this category to distinguish it from infantry rifles of the past - and the only two distinguishing characteristics were 1) use of intermediate rather than full-sized round, and 2) capability to fire in full auto - combined together. For example, M1 carbine was not an assault rifle because, while it uses an intermediate round, it didn't fire in full auto; and AVT rifle was not an assault rifle because, while it was capable of firing in full auto, it used a full-size 7.62x54 rifle round.

      Weapons that are actually designed specifically for use in an assault - by which I mean rapidly attacking and taking objectives, usually involving close range firefights - do exist, of course. They are called submachine guns, though more recently, compact versions of assault rifles have encroached on this niche. Either way, the ability to fire in full automatic is crucial here. If you had to designate any category as "assault" based on its function, that would be the one.

      Come to think of it, there is actually another category of weapons that is designed for assault, and actually has "assault" in its name - assault shotguns, normally defined as semi-automatic or fully automatic shotguns with detachable magazines, often drums. The weapon that created this niche and gave it its name was Atchisson Assault Shotgun, aka AA-12, but similar examples are USAS-12, and, to some extent, Saiga-12 (even though the latter was designed for hunting, it is still effective in this role, as well - the only thing that it's missing is full auto, but it's not crucial for a shotgun).

    180. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Yes, gun homicide was in decline, but certainly would have reached a level average at some point if the buybacks of 96 and 03 didn't occur. Who knows, they may have gone up. Nobody knows

      Nobody knows, but we can reasonably estimate based on past trends. Your assertion that "it would have reached a level average", on the other hand, is completely unfounded. Furthermore, a similar consistently declining trend is observed in all first world countries, including USA with its relaxed gun laws and their recent liberalization (with respect to concealed carry, and the expiry of AWB in 2004). Guess what? Homicides are still declining in US as well.

      What's even more interesting is that if you take US and, say, UK - the two countries that are traditionally compared to demonstrate how gun control means less crime - and look at the historical data, both countries have that trend going all the way back to mid-20th century. What's even funnier is that if you go even further than that, you suddenly realize that the difference in the rates was there all along, even in early 1900s - long before UK started implementing broad gun control laws. It's almost as if guns are not the factor that's responsible for the difference.

      What *did* happen, after the buybacks, was that gun crime *plummeted*.

      Who cares about "gun crime"? It's an arbitrary label that, for nonsensical reason, focuses on the tool used in commission of the crime rather than the crime itself. Do you honestly care if you are shot or stabbed if you end up dying either way?

      So no, sorry, but that's bullshit. What the graphs clearly show is that people still get killed just as often - just not by guns - and still do kill themselves just as often - just not by guns. Unless you have some irrational phobia about dying specifically by gun, the only rational conclusion is that there is no improvement.

      If you support gun ownership, you support gun crime, simple as that. Gun are NOT knives. Guns have only ONE purpose. They are not made to cut your steak, or butter your bread. They are made to maim and kill people. Supporting guns is supporting what guns are for.

      You are absolutely right here. Guns are designed to maim and kill (though not necessarily people - what about hunting?). Guess what? Sometimes maiming or killing is the most efficient and reliable way to stop the bad guy from maiming or killing you. Especially when he's twice as big and strong.

    181. Re:Great... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      This kind of shit matters to the rest of us when it comes to the cries of "somebody please do something!!!1!", the discussion that ensues, and the laws that get drafted as the outcome of that.

    182. Re: Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Michael Moore? Are you fucking kidding me? That's like a suggestion to find unbiased truth from Rush Limbaugh.

    183. Re:Great... by craigminah · · Score: 1

      There are numerous other studies that show that in regions that restrict people's right to carry a firearm the crime rate is higher. This is evident at the locale (e.g. shopping malls), city (e.g. Chicago, Washington DC), state, and country if you want to go to Europe and check statistics. There will always be outliers so you could always make a case if you extract a small sample (although Australia is a rather large sample), but generally, the data proves guns aren't attributable to crime...the opposite is true in fact (e.g. less gun restrictions equals less violent crime).

    184. Re:Great... by Mister+Xiado · · Score: 1

      And then violent crime and home invasions increased dramatically. But that's better, right?

    185. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That said, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think even a TSA agent deserved to be murdered in cold-blood.

      You know that expression, it couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of guys? It's true. Because a nicer bunch wouldn't have aggro'ed this rager. No one goes and shoots up donut shop or toy store, at least not one they didn't work at.

    186. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thsnk heavens Uncle Bob hung himself instead of shooting himself, he's much less dead because he didn't use a gun!

      (To put this in terms your moron brain can understand, the overall homicide trend remaining the same, and suicides by hanging rose markedly). Nigger.

    187. Re:Great... by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      Armed to the teeth? I only have 5 rifles and one shotgun. I would like a few more. And cheaper ammo.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    188. Re:Great... by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      They are made to maim and kill people.

      Wrong!

      The guns i own, or more accurately rifles. Are indeed made for one purpose. Hunting game. They are in fact not great at other roles, such has home defense.

      In NZ we have a lot of introduced animals and the conservation groups are begging us to hunt more.

      There are plenty of reasonable reasons for personal gun ownership.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    189. Re:Great... by atamido · · Score: 1

      That's my point Airports are full of armed guards and police... At least UK ones are. Men and women, with guns, loaded, maintained, trained in their use and ready to act. Didn't seem to help here.

      I'm going to add my experience to that of TWX's. Flying in and out of London in 2008-2009 was a little surreal relative to airports in the US. US airports are staffed by glorified security workers. In a literal sense. I had a roommate when the TSA was formed, who worked airport security. In his words, the only things that changed were his uniform, and getting a pay raise. I liked the guy, he was nice and honorable, but I'm not entirely sure he even graduated from high school. And he was, IMHO, one of the more qualified people I'm seen working for TSA. As far as weaponry, I've never even seen a rifle in a US airport. I'm sure there are some somewhere, but they aren't out in the open. A few TSA agents have handguns, but those are few and far between, and I'm not sure I'd trust them to actually shoot something with them. They occupy some state between rent-a-cop and actual-cop.

      Compare that to the London security that was clearly military personnel, carrying fully automatic rifles, and wearing camouflage uniforms. They were scattered all over the place, and some were in fortified positions. These were not slack-jawed security guards, these were professionals putting off an air of menace. I recall at least most of them standing, being physically fit, paying attention to their surroundings, and properly holding their weapon. They were the exact opposite of what one sees in the US.

      I imagine the type and effectiveness of a response to armed attack is completely different in the London airport than in the US, with the London response being far more effective. That US airport response was poor is not a surprise, but it has nothing to do with gun control.

      Oddly, in London, law enforcement either had no firearm, or a fully automatic. There was no middle ground. No street police were armed. Compared to the US, people expect all public law enforcement to be armed with only a pistol. I found the wild extremes in London to be odd. Although I suspect the extra firepower is necessary to cover more extreme situations that regular law enforcement is totally unable to handle due to being unarmed (at least with firearms).

    190. Re:Great... by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      1- links ? It's always interesting to check the accuracy of such claims, and the minutiae and funding of the studies
      2- restrictions prohibition; Australia did prohibition, and it works. Maybe you don't care about kids and bystanders getting killed, but I do.

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    191. Re:Great... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      Yes, but at the range this guy was shooting at?

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    192. Re:Great... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      For someone who is castigating someone for failure to read entire sentences, you didn't do so for your own link nor his excerpt. GP clearly disqualifies any weapon this guy likely had from being called an "assault rifle".

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    193. Re:Great... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      Yes, you're quite right. The years of governmental and media fearmongering about so-called "assault weapons" have given me a tendency to immediately go on the offence against their use of terms as soon as I see them use "assault" as an adjective for any weapon used by a civilian.

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    194. Re:Great... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      True, but in a situation like this, there are countless places you can be shot and survive. One's odds of bleeding out from a single .22 shot to the hand, or the fleshy part of the leg but not damaging any major arteries, are almost nonexistent in this day and age.

      This particular shooter, regardless of what he used, went back to kill someone he thought he had already killed when he saw him move again.

      --
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    195. Re:Great... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      Agreed, actually. But at a range of five or six yards at most, I'm not seeing an appreciable difference in the result. Especially if one chooses more deadly areas to aim for.

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    196. Re:Great... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      Certainly, I agree. The question is quality, not quality, of the damage.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    197. Re:Great... by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Where the hell do you live where that is even a consideration in daily life?? You do realise most of the developed world lives every single day without having any sort of fear from anyone, right? That they live happy, safe lives without being scared? So weird. You sound like you still live in the wild west.

    198. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      last time i went to an airport about 6 months ago there were plenty of military looking guys with assault rifles. no jeeps in the airport, but i'm sure they have some on the runways already.

    199. Re:Great... by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      I went to the 2 WaPo ones. Abstracts:
      1- "The United States has the highest gun ownership rate in the world and the highest per capita rate of firearm-related murders of all developed countries."
      2- "America sees far more gun violence than countries in Europe, and Canada, India and Australia" (rates of firearm death are 5 to 500x higher in the US than in EU/Canada/Austramia...)

      I guess it's not that important, it's only human lives. As long as the gun lobby keep cashing in ....

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    200. Re:Great... by craigminah · · Score: 1

      Look at total murders per capita...you obviously want to showcase the facts and figures that show you're the winner but read the articles and you'll see there are more murders per capita where guns are banned/restricted.

    201. Re:Great... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      Table 2: Notifiable offences recorded by the police in which firearms were reported to have been used, by principal weapon

      Air weapons; Shotgun; Handgun

      1993 6,337 1,592 4,273
      1994 7,165 1,190 3,087
      1995 7,568 983 3,319
      1996 7,813 933 3,347
      1997 7,506 580 2,648

      Handguns banned this year, no legislation change with regards to shotguns or Air weapons, AFAIK

      1997/98 7,902 565 2,636
      1998/99 8,665 642 2,687
      1999/00 10,103 693 3,685
      2000/01 10,227 608 4,110
      2001/02 12,377 712 5,874
      2002/03 13,822 672 5,549
      2003/04 13,756 718 5,144
      2004/05 11,825 597 4,360
      2005/06 10,439 642 4,672
      2006/07 8,836 612 4,173
      2007/08 7,478 602 4,172
      2008/09 6,041 618 4,274
      2009/10 4,925 584 3,743
      2010/11 4,203 608 3,105

      Handgun offences had dropped by more than a third in the 5 years prior to them being banned, then doubled in the 5 years after the ban. They have since dropped to levels about a quarter higher than they were when they were banned.

      Shotgun offences had dropped by about 2/3 in the 5 years prior to the handgun ban, then increased slightly, then decreased slightly. They have since dropped to levels almost identical to when the handgun ban took effect.

      Airgun offences were gradually rising prior to the handgun ban, rose quickly in the aftermath of the ban, then dropped by more than 2/3rds in the last 8 years to levels well below when the handgun ban took effect.

      So you see, offences with both the types of gun that weren't banned have stayed the same or gone down overall, and offences with the type of gun that was banned have gone up. This is pretty clear.

    202. Re:Great... by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      Morality is the only thing that protects you against a government that wants to end you, not those guns in your closet. The day a government gives the order to go take you down with it's military, FBI, NSA or whatever else they have up their sleeve, you won't have a chance. So your argument to baring arms to protect yourself against your own government makes little to no sense. I mean, you're not Rambo, or are you?

    203. Re:Great... by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what some politicians have been trying to do but people rather hold on to something they think protects them (which truly doesn't) than to evolve their society to the next level. Long live ignorance.

    204. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      eh soon enough the TSA will just round up the people it deems a "flight risk" and gas them ... the buncha nazis they are.

    205. Re:Great... by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      No.Not in comparable, developped countries (E, Canada, Australia...=

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    206. Re:Great... by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      Why on earth would you get that picture?

      Image search for "bikie gangs": https://www.google.com/search?q=bikie+gangs&espv=210&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=pqqBUuvbDsj22AWRkIDYBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ

      Motorcycle outlaw gangs - I do believe you have them in the US as well (though they aren't quite as notorious as the Australian ones perhaps?)

  3. Gunman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    And, since the gunman used a rifle, all rifles will be banned or limited to 3-round magazines, and the homosexual liberals and their whining will once again set the direction of this state.

    -- Ethanol-fueled

    1. Re:Gunman by sjames · · Score: 5, Funny

      OMG NO! We can't allow ANY magazines of any kind. if you're bored at the airport, you'll just have to read a pamphlet.

    2. Re:Gunman by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      So does this mean no more hilights? :(

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      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    3. Re:Gunman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't get me started... next thing you know some states are going to ban possession of nuclear weapons. They don't understand that if nuclear weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have nuclear weapons.

    4. Re:Gunman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wrong. the response to this is obviously, MORE GUNS. if everyone had a gun, we could have stopped this sooner!

    5. Re:Gunman by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      That's ok. The TSA has loads of pamphlets.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    6. Re:Gunman by camperdave · · Score: 2

      Don't get me started... next thing you know some states are going to ban possession of nuclear weapons. They don't understand that if nuclear weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have nuclear weapons.

      Yes, and do we really want our outlaws more heavily armed than our inlaws?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    7. Re:Gunman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or Bubba would have just caused more causualties playing soldier-of-fortune.

    8. Re:Gunman by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Not anymore, now you're a just a proud one instead.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    9. Re:Gunman by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      Nobody really cares what you do with your hair, just so long as nobody dyes - suicide blondes are right out.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    10. Re:Gunman by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      If marriage is outlawed only outlaws will have inlaws.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    11. Re:Gunman by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      No pamphlets. I know a guy who was killed by a pamphlet. Didn't even see it coming. You'll just have to read a book.

      --
      ~X~
  4. News For Nerds. Stuff That Matters. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Totally.

  5. That by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is one pissed-off TSA worker. No more f'in' around with those folks!

    1. Re:That by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Despite earlier reports, he was NOT a TSA employee, but just a ticketed passenger.

      Flying out of LAX always makes me want to shoot someone, too. (Too soon?)

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    2. Re:That by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too late, man.

    3. Re:That by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Flying out of LAX always makes me want to shoot someone, too. (Too soon?)

      Welcome to the NSA watchlist

    4. Re:That by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to the NSA watchlist

      Unsubscribe! unsubscribe!!
      Dammit.

    5. Re:That by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      Flying out of LAX always makes me want to shoot someone, too. (Too soon?)

      Interesting. Usually the drive to the airport to drop off my rental car makes me feel that way.

    6. Re:That by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to the NSA watchlist

      Unsubscribe! unsubscribe!! Dammit.

      Oops by attempting to unsubscribe you have now been added ot the no fly list and 10 other secret lists and remain on the NSA watchlist

  6. Motive was to shoot people, I'd guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whatever his deeper motive is, it's all too likely to be whitewashed.

    1. Re:Motive was to shoot people, I'd guess by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Whatever his deeper motive is, it's all too likely to be whitewashed.

      Or simply fall into the (really rather common) category of 'Yes, it's a motive; but nothing you say can really convey why it would be so motivating."

      Not all affect states can be conveyed verbally, especially to people who haven't experienced them. All you can do is use hollow allusions to them.

      Do we all know what words like 'hate', 'jealousy', 'frustration' mean? Sure. Do we know what they mean in the sense used by somebody who would offer one or more of them as an explanation for why he would face nearly certain death or capture in order to shoot up a terminal in LAX? Probably not. Not even clear that we could.

    2. Re:Motive was to shoot people, I'd guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The low kill count suggests otherwise. (Or the guy just sucked at it.)

  7. What kind of gun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A gunman armed with a high-powered rifle
    What qualifies as high power now a days?

    1. Re:What kind of gun? by Mitchell314 · · Score: 4, Funny

      240v

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    2. Re:What kind of gun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      According to the media, anything with a center-fire cartridge. For those who don't know, that's pretty much anything bigger than a BB gun.

    3. Re:What kind of gun? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      What difference does center-fire vs rim-fire make? That's just where the primer is, no? It's the amount of gunpowder within the shell that matters, right?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:What kind of gun? by demonlapin · · Score: 2, Funny

      I bet you they'd call a .22 LR a high-powered rifle. I mean, it shoots supersonic bullets!

    5. Re:What kind of gun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What difference does center-fire vs rim-fire make? That's just where the primer is, no? It's the amount of gunpowder within the shell that matters, right?

      Centerfire cartridges are able to withstand higher pressures, and thus can propel larger, heavier bullets at higher velocities than rimfire rifles.

      A rimfire rifle needs to have a primer-containing rim thin enough to be crushed by the firing pin. This limits the maximum pressure it can withstand.

    6. Re:What kind of gun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that would be most anything bigger that a 22 rimfire (in current modern firearms) or if you had a historical bend all the way up to 58 caliber.

    7. Re:What kind of gun? by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Large cartridges don't get an even burn from rimfire primers - so in general, you won't see rimfire on anything above a certain point.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    8. Re:What kind of gun? by TrekkieGod · · Score: 1

      240v

      Voltage is not power. 240 V at what amperage?

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    9. Re:What kind of gun? by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      LOLWATT?

    10. Re:What kind of gun? by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I realized my error about 600 milliseconds after hitting the reply button.

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
  8. deplorable by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    A leader of the union representing TSA officers deplored the incident.

    i agree it is deplorable... and so is the TSA.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:deplorable by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "i agree it is deplorable... and so is the TSA."

      Isn't it just a bit curious that this didn't happen a long time ago?

      It's amazing sometimes what a lot of Americans will tolerate for the sake of letting the government "keep them safe"... especially given the government's terrible record of doing it.

    2. Re:deplorable by intermodal · · Score: 2

      It wouldn't be half as offensive if what the government did were in some way related to keeping us safe. The TSA is the least convincing theatre troupe I have ever encountered.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  9. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Collateral damage is always sad.

  10. How is this news for nerds? by Kurast · · Score: 0

    How is this news for nerds?

    1. Re:How is this news for nerds? by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Duh. Nerds always have strong opinions on guns, whether real or virtual.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    2. Re:How is this news for nerds? by Seumas · · Score: 1

      It isn't, but it's fantastic for increasing traffic while geeks put down their hardware and software and tech industry discussions and turn into mouth-breathing Disqus commentors at the bottom of CBS articles that Matt Drudge has linked to.

    3. Re:How is this news for nerds? by SirGarlon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe it's because some nerds travel by airplane.

      Maybe it's because Slashdotters have been pointing out that the line at the screening checkpoint is, itself, a target, and they have unfortunately been proven correct.

      I seem to recall there are a number of gun-rights advocates in the Slashdot community, who may be concerned about a legislative (over?)reaction to this atrocious act.

      Then there are people like me who check Slashdot a lot more often than they check mainstream news sites, and learned about the shooting just now.

      I don't mean to be too hard on you, because your question is legitimate. My best answer is, "news for nerds" is in the eye of the beholder and sometimes the editors will post a story that doesn't interest you, but does interest someone else.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    4. Re:How is this news for nerds? by crakbone · · Score: 1

      News for nerds, stuff that matters. Stuff that matters is the most relevant at the moment. Otherwise you would not have posted and just ignored the article.

    5. Re:How is this news for nerds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Duh. Nerds always have strong opinions on guns, whether real or virtual.

      Virtual nerds?

    6. Re: How is this news for nerds? by kerrbear · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's because Grant and Tory from Mythbusters were there. :)

    7. Re:How is this news for nerds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anon so as not to undo mods.

      But if this was news, but more importantly, if it mattered to nerds, what have you actually done about it, other than just talk?

  11. Article summary sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Article summary sucks. It wasn't an assault rifle, it was just a rifle. Likely a self-loading rifle, from pictures looks to be a varmint-type AR-15.

    1. Re:Article summary sucks. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      What does AR stand for if it isn't Assault Rifle?

      It could stand for Abe Romney for all I know, but I assumed all along that it stood for Assault Rifle.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:Article summary sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it looks scary and does scary things....therefore we have to call it a scary name.

    3. Re:Article summary sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does AR stand for if it isn't Assault Rifle?

      It could stand for Abe Romney for all I know, but I assumed all along that it stood for Assault Rifle.

      why educate yourself when you can just assume and be wrong!

      a 3-second google clears it up:

      AR does NOT stand for Assault Rifle, as is commonly believed. AR stands for the original company that manufactured it, ArmaLite.

    4. Re:Article summary sucks. by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

      For those unfamiliar with firearms, a handy guide.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:Article summary sucks. by crakbone · · Score: 4, Informative

      I believe it stands for Armalite. The company that makes the rifle. The 15 is the model. It is not an assault rifle despite it's looks.

    6. Re:Article summary sucks. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      >why educate yourself when you can just assume and be wrong!

      I am not heavily invested in this topic. I'm heavily invested in slacking off by commenting on Slashdot during work hours.

      But now I know. Thank you.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    7. Re:Article summary sucks. by evilviper · · Score: 1
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    8. Re:Article summary sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's correct, however, many manufacturers have licensed the design for the Armalite Rifle (or the patent expired?) and most of the major arms manufacturers offer their own take on it, starting with Colt.

    9. Re:Article summary sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe it stands for Armalite.

      Actually, AR stands for Armalite rifle.

    10. Re:Article summary sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does this mean that a full auto AK isn't, because it doesn't have the "AR" designation in the name?

      Actually, AR does NOT stand for "Assult Rifle", it original stood for "ARmalite" which was the company that originally developed the design. When Colt bought the rights to make them, the AR model name stayed, however some believe that it could stand for "Automatic Rifle", which is a mis-nomer anyway as all AR-15's are only Semi-Automatic, and not Full-Automatic.

  12. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Looks like some sociopath finally noticed that a slow security checkpoint just means there's an easy crowd in an unsecured area.

    What little empathy I can muster for anyone in LA (I have my reasons) goes to the 6(+- reporter error) injured and the family of the TSA grunt. He probably wasn't even one of the thugs, and his death will be used to increase the brutality of those who have abandoned all respect for the populace who just wants to ride uncomfortable chairs to a far-away destination.

  13. Harder than killing him... by N_Piper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My congratulations on the Police who did the difficult task of taking this man alive.

    1. Re:Harder than killing him... by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Funny

      It could just be poor marksmanship.

    2. Re:Harder than killing him... by SailorSpork · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to TFA, he was shot in the chest multiple times before being taken into custody. I don't think bringing him in alive was their top priority, but I agree that it is unusual and will be interesting to hear what he claims his motives were rather than piecing it together by scraping it off of his Facebook page and his Guns 'R Us receipts.

    3. Re:Harder than killing him... by Megane · · Score: 1

      Isn't this the same LAPD that opened fire on the wrong color and type of pick-up truck a few months ago, putting over fifty holes in it, yet still only managed to have one or two bullets even injure the two people inside?

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    4. Re:Harder than killing him... by FunPika · · Score: 1

      Actually, LAX has a separate police department (the Los Angeles Airport Police) that I believe is the one that handled this. So it actually isn't the same department that shot at a random unrelated pickup truck looking for Dorner.

      --
      After years of not using a signature, I am going to make one to say the following: Fuck Beta
    5. Re:Harder than killing him... by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Whenever something like this happens and the gunman is killed, I can't help but wondering whether the motive included "suicide by cop."

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    6. Re:Harder than killing him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, he wasn't black and didn't look Muslim.

    7. Re:Harder than killing him... by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      If you have an assault rifle, why the hell would you need a cop's help to die?

    8. Re:Harder than killing him... by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Some of us have life insurance, and most policies have a clause that denies payment if the insured commits suicide. Going out like this can be a way to avoid that. And, there are people who want to take as many others with them as they can for one reason or another, so they go on a killing spree and hope that the police won't be able to take them alive.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    9. Re:Harder than killing him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imperial storm troopers are quite accurate.

    10. Re:Harder than killing him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because ultimately you are a coward.

    11. Re:Harder than killing him... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      Short arms

    12. Re:Harder than killing him... by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      It could just be poor marksmanship.

      Well, there were 6 others wounded...

      --
      ~X~
  14. Just one to many by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Just one to many gropes to this persons nether regions.

  15. Re:damn by Mitchell314 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There tends to be much confusion right after events like these. Give it time.

    --
    I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
  16. Screening areas as terrorist targets by onyxruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many years have people been complaining that the only the thing the long lines at the screening areas do is make for a target rich environment? Attacking waiting points for security lines is a time honored practice in some parts of the world, the only surprising thing is that it took this long for it to occur here.

    Security theater isn't just an inconvenience, it's a security risk in and of itself. I used to travel for a living and I have easily seen times in major airports where there were thousands of people queued up to go through the security checkpoints. It's a target rich environment where you can't miss for trying in some airports.

    It's time to end security theater and demand real security.

    1. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      After the big mall shooting in Africa, I'm surprised this hasn't happened on a bigger scale already.

    2. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by evilviper · · Score: 1

      How many years have people been complaining that the only the thing the long lines at the screening areas do is make for a target rich environment?

      There are innumerable other "target-rich environments" elsewhere, that don't have police and armed guards swarming all over the place.

      Shopping malls, movie theatres, ANY stores on Black Friday, or a few days before Christmas, restaurants during diner, the DMV, etc.

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      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    3. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      It's time to end security theater and demand real security.

      Your solution is???? non-existent. It is very easy to point out problems but much harder to come up with a solution. Having checkpoints is much less dangerous than not having them. They could be faster but doing away with them is not the answer either.

    4. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yeah. Maybe warrantless wire-tapping by the NSA is a good idea. They can't afford it over there, but we're better off in America because of it.

    5. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by bob_super · · Score: 1

      You forget that the people waiting in TSA lines are not Important.
      Literally.

    6. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Megane · · Score: 2

      Apparently in this case it was more of a "bystander-rich environment". All those passengers kept getting in the way of his objective of shooting TSA people.

      "He saw me. He looked at me with a quizzical look and said, 'TSA?' And I just shook my head. So he moved on," Saryan said.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    7. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by crakbone · · Score: 2

      All of those areas are shown to have people with concealed carry. Who do shoot back. The airport is a self described gun free zone. Knowing where the police and security with guns on their sides are is different from having the innocent 70 year old man all of a sudden draw down on you when your back is turned.

    8. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Actually, there are ways to deal with this effectively. For a start, just look how they do things in Israel.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    9. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      You need to do a little research;

      As part of its focus on this so-called "human factor," Israeli security officers interrogate travelers using racial profiling, singling out those who appear to be Arab based on name or physical appearance. Additionally, all passengers, even those who do not appear to be of Arab descent, are questioned as to why they are traveling to Israel, followed by several general questions about the trip in order to search for inconsistencies. Although numerous civil rights groups have demanded an end to the profiling, Israel maintains that it is both effective and unavoidable. According to Ariel Merari, an Israeli terrorism expert[citation needed], "it would be foolish not to use profiling when everyone knows that most terrorists come from certain ethnic groups. They are likely to be Muslim and young, and the potential threat justifies inconveniencing a certain ethnic group."

      So Israel does have checkpoints where people are questioned. They just don't us gadgets like backscatter xrays. They also use profiling which is abhorrent to many Amerucans. If this kind of questioning was tried in the US I doubt the constitution would allow it.

    10. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by gtall · · Score: 1

      Well, we could have two lines, one for normal people and one for people with suicide vests. We don't need to be too particular that people get in the correct line because it's all security theater right? Hell, let the ones with the suicide vests sit right behind the cabin in first class to make sure they get the biggest bang for their buck.

      How's that for security theater. We'll just sit out in our lawn chairs while the nutjobs randomly blow up planes overhead:

      Joe Sixpack: Wow, that was a big one!!

      Jane Sixpack: Wait, I'll get some more beers, this is going to be a great night.

    11. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      So Israel does have checkpoints where people are questioned.

      I never said that they didn't. My point was that whatever it is they're doing looks far more effective than the Security Kabuki Theater that we're stuck with.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    12. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not require passengers to undergo a colonoscopy, a suicide bomber could easily hide a device inside their body.

    13. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They use trained personnel to build an *individual* profile of each given passenger. In the US, we 'profile' by looking at physical characteristics like skin color, facial hair, and clothing. The Israeli method takes less time (because it happens at each of several steps in the process from entering the airport to entering the plane), and is less prone to failure because they use trained people rather than untrained people looking at expensive gadgets.

    14. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by eyenot · · Score: 1

      You seem to be missing the point: the profiling is effective security. Are you saying that Americans should continue to Abhor things even if that attitude places them directly in harm's way, basically causing widespread cultural self-harm?

      Get real, get brutal, get anything but in the way of progress. There's no time in the rapidly changing civilization we all have to suffer through, now, to stop and coddle people who don't feel right about the direction things are going.

      There can't be any room for whiny idealists who aren't making any real or logical points, who are just torch-carriers for philosophies and politics that have failed, whose arguments are entirely emotional.

      --
      "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
    15. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of those areas are shown to have people with concealed carry. Who do shoot back.

      No, they don't all have that - if you knew that they did, then the whole idea of a concealed carry permit would be irrelevant, because you'd be able to see the armed people.

      Having a concealed carry permit, and a firearm on you, is absolutely not the same as knowing how to handle yourself when under fire.

      It's exactly the same as getting a black belt in karate and then getting in a fight with some street tough who picks fights every day - you'll think you know what you're doing right up to the second that you realise your punches aren't slowing him down. His punches will make you slow down.

      If you disagree, feel free to give me a rifle, train me up so I can shoot straight, and you hide behind hard cover, armed with a paint gun. I'll shoot at you, and any time you feel you can hit me you can jump out and take your shot. You'll find out what being under fire is really like, that way.

    16. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Considering those long lines, six wounded and one killed should be seen as a poor result for such an attack (from the attackers pov, and assuming their goal is to kill/wound as many as possible).

    17. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be pasty white, or very Jewish looking, if you have ever been through an Israeli screening, and are promoting the experience.

      From personal experience, I would describe it as, imagine the worst of the worst of the TSA crossed with brown shirts. 24 hours of questioning, intermittent attempts to humiliate, theft of property, etc. Oh boy, we should have that here!

      One of the most racist societies on earth that screens passengers based solely on their prejudice and racial/religious hatred. Yes, that is something we should emulate here. For sure! Stop and frisk x 1000.

      Check your white (and I would say racist, for suggesting such profiling) privilege.

    18. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      There can't be any room for whiny fascists who aren't making any social points, who are just torch-carriers for computers and dictatorships that have failed, whose arguments are entirely logic based.

      The reality is somewhere in between.

      I personally think profiling would be a good idea but any time it is brought up in America it is shot down.

    19. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      No, I haven't been there, but I'd like to.

      One of the most racist societies on earth that screens passengers based solely on their prejudice and racial/religious hatred.

      I don't think it's prejudice when they focus most of their efforts on young men who either are, or look Arabic. After all, more than 99% of the people who have reasons to want to commit terrorist acts in Israel are, in fact, young Arabic males. Just because the USofA is currently unwilling to admit this and focus most of our security's attention on that kind of person doesn't mean that it's not a far more effective way of stopping terrorists than random searches of small children or old men in wheelchairs. The important thing here is to understand that what they have is security; what we get is mostly Security Kabuki Theater.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    20. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US constitution doesn't allow *many* things. However, that doesn't stop the gov't from doing them anyway.

    21. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A large part of the reason that the majority of those who commit terrorist acts against Israelis are young Arabic males is that the Israeli government treats all young Arabic males as likely terrorists. It's circular and self-reinforcing.

      (different AC here, by the way)

    22. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Smauler · · Score: 1

      Despite what some people would have you believe, "kill as many civilians as possible" is very rarely the point in terrorist attacks. They usually focus on specific things, and targets. The 9/11 attacks were an obvious example of this. The 7/7 bombings in London were aimed at infrastructure of the city, and causing chaos. The recent attacks in Kenya were focused on an expensive mall.

    23. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Smauler · · Score: 1

      I personally think profiling would be a good idea but any time it is brought up in America it is shot down.

      The reason for it being shot down is you alienate loads and loads of good people.

      How would you feel as an American citizen if you were always strip searched every time you boarded a plane, or were followed wherever you go, just because your father was from a worrying country? You'd get bitter. Racial profiling is a somewhat self enforcing problem. Those that are more of a risk are persecuted more, and thus become more of a risk.

      I don't think racial profiling is the answer.

    24. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Your solution is

      A good first step would be to get rid of the nudie scanners. They're just too slow and no better than a metal detector. Actually in most ways they are worse. Do everything possible to make the security lines move quickly because clearly they are a tempting target for anyone who wants to kill a lot of people with a single explosive or burst of machine gun fire.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    25. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      cultural profiling (which is not the same as racial) should be done.

      yes, a lot of innocent people are put thru inconvenience. but right now, EVERYONE is put thru it. its unfair to all of us.

      if you inconvenience a certain group, maybe that group will get sick and tired of its own rogue members and force THEM to change. it can't hurt to try. I don't see any other change coming from within.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    26. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      All of those areas are shown to have people with concealed carry. Who do shoot back.

      Not in California or New York.

    27. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "the profiling is effective security. Are you saying that Americans should continue to Abhor things even if that attitude places them directly in harm's way, basically causing widespread cultural self-harm?"

      Effective profiling is effective. "Don't let the sand nigger on the plane" is not effective profiling, so it's just racial profiling. "The spic is an illegal immigrant", "the nigger is a crack-head mugger", these are also not effective profiles. They are not effective because they do not help in identify those actually intending to commit a crime.

      Osama bin Laden was left handed. Would that make targeting left-handed people effective profiling? Of course not, you'd be overwhelmed with false positives of left-handed people who are not terrorists. There are even more Arabs in the US than there are left-handed people, so profiling Arabs is not effective profiling, it is only racial profiling.

      Treating all usages of "profiling" as equal is the same tactic that the ID people use with "theory", implying an equivalence between "scientific theory", "conspiracy theory", and "cockamamie theory".

    28. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many years have people been complaining that the only the thing the long lines at the screening areas do is make for a target rich environment? Attacking waiting points for security lines is a time honored practice in some parts of the world, the only surprising thing is that it took this long for it to occur here.

      It's no surprise. Why point out the flawed logic of your enemy by bombing them when they're busy setting up security theatre, slowing themselves down, destroying their tourism industry and irradiating themselves to death. It's no surprise it was a domestic terrorist rather than a radical religious nut that was first to make the point by acting thus.

    29. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      That's not an issue when they select. Hell, the guy shooting up a friggin military base ran across resistance roughly equal to a kindergarten.

    30. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by Tom · · Score: 1

      Attacking waiting points for security lines is a time honored practice in some parts of the world, the only surprising thing is that it took this long for it to occur here.

      "took"? It's still waiting to happen. The moron killed 1 person. In a target-rich environment, with a rifle in your hand, you'd have to be a half-blind to not kill at least three people before the area is clear - if that was your target. But then again, you'd se a bomb or a hand-grenade.

      This guy was not out to randomly kill as many people as possible, this was not a terrorist attack.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    31. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Part of the issue with US profiling is we do it wrong. It is a factor, one of many. But when we profile, we round up 3rd generation US citizens of Japanese descent and put them in concentration camps, without much thought, and without proper screening.

      When we've done it so wrong, people don't trust the government to use race/culture as a factor in screening, because we'll use it as the *only* factor.

    32. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by PPH · · Score: 1

      Its also a focus of security issues and related press coverage. So if you want to go out in a blaze of media-covered glory, its a good choice.

      If you just want to die, walk into the wrong neighborhood in LA wearing the incorrect color bandanna and pull a gun. But that won't warrant more than a sentence in the daily police blotter.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    33. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      How would you feel as an American citizen if you were always strip searched every time you boarded a plane,

      Profiling does not require strip searching. In the Israeli method it means asking more intense questions. There is a huge difference between "followed more often" and "followed everywhere".

      You'd get bitter.

      That is because people take profiling too seriously. There is a big difference between "He thinks I am a terrorist because I ham Arab" and "He is checking more closely because I happen to be an Arab and are acting in wars similar to how terrorists have acted in the past".

      The thing about profiling is that it allows security to do higher levels of screening on people who meet a profile. Without profiling everyone is subject to that higher screening . Race is also only one aspect of the Israeli method. It also includes how they are acting, what they are carrying, etc. Do you really think thet Israeli airport security has enough manpower to strip search and/or follw every Arab that goes through their airports?

    34. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      That happened over 70 years ago. We have learned a lot since then. The Israeli method is not only racial but in how someone acts, what they are carrying, etc. The consequences are different as well. A few extra questions are much different than confiscation of property and being thrown in a concentration camp.

      If people can't tell the difference 70 years makes that is their problem.

    35. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      That happened over 70 years ago. We have learned a lot since then.

      Yeah, we learned to put them in camps outside US jurisdiction. The US has handled race (relations, profiling, everything about it) so poorly for so long, even well within the past 70 years, that they are guaranteed to do racial profiling wrong, should it be legal.

      If people can't tell the difference 70 years makes that is their problem.

      I grew up in Dallas in the 70s and 80s. I saw my share of illegal racial profiling done wrong in my lifetime. When some idiot on the Internet asserts reality is wrong, I'll trust reality over the idiot. I can't cite what I saw, but as a personal witness to a large amount of illegal profiling, my personal testimony *is* a cite. That you can't see the racial profiling done today doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

      I had a friend who is black. He was walking home after eating at a fast food restaurant near his house. Someone somewhere must have robbed someone. He was arrested and hauled to jail for being black in an area where some black person committed a crime. He was later released, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place. While a white friend was in a high speed chase with property damage, and he was let go at the end, with an apology. Much like the guy that ran over a bunch of college students in Austin was never charged and received an official apology from the police for his emotional suffering for killing the pule of students he did. But being old and white gets you an apology for murder.

      These were all in the '90s. I moved my ass out of the US when I had means to do so because it's so bad, and kept even worse by the idiots who insist nothing is wrong, so the problems keep growing. The race problem is not unlike the debt. If you put it off long enough, it just goes away, right?

    36. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Sorry but your examples do not apply in this situation.The problems are that your examples pertain to police officers who are not trained in profiling, therefore not doing it correctly, applying their own rules to the public and a general situation. Just because something is done wrong without training does not mean it can't be done right with proper training.

      He was arrested and hauled to jail for being black in an area where some black person committed a crime.

      Is that the whole story? Did he match the general description of the black person who was reported to have commited the crime? height eight, clothing, etc?

      But being old and white gets you an apology for murder.

      First, murder requires intent. It probably was an accident and not intentional. You are also comparing two different situations "a person matching the description of a suspect" and "a person involved in a vehicle accident". You have no idea if race really came into the equation. Now had an old black man run over people and been charged you would have had a valid comparison.

    37. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The problems are that your examples pertain to police officers who are not trained in profiling, therefore not doing it correctly, applying their own rules to the public and a general situation.

      Are you a cop? If not, I'd encourage you to figure out their training before you commment on it. They are given very specific instructions on profiling, and do receive training. The training is generally "how to violate civil rights and not get sued" rather than how to protect and serve, but they haven't tried protecting or serving in those 70 years you mention.

      First, murder requires intent. It probably was an accident and not intentional.

      An "accident" can mean something unintentional, it can also mean something unfortunate. By the second definition, it could be an accident and murder. It could also be the first. Murder doesn't require intent to kill, just taking an action known to be dangerous that results in death. Yes, I know you'll argue that is negligence, but there is significant overlap in the definitions of various types of homicide so as to make sure there is no gap. Also, people are tried for multiple types all the time. If it were as clearly defined as you suggest, it wouldn't work to try someone for murder and find them guilty on a "lesser" charge.

      If a person gets behind the wheel impaired (drunk most common, tired counts as well) and kills someone, that's murder. That has been convicted in most jurisdictions. That you disagree doesn't change reality.

      You have no idea if race really came into the equation. Now had an old black man run over people and been charged you would have had a valid comparison.

      Nah, I just have the hundreds of other incidents, including cities losing against charges of civil rights violations (arresting a brown person at a bus stop for "loitering"). Yes, it used to be common to arrest brown people for loitering for waiting on a bus. But they nabbed the beloved nanny for a rich white couple, and it went to court and the city was found to be violating civil rights. Had the case been championed by black people (NAACP or such), it'd have been a bunch of uppity minorities, at least when the media dealt with it. But with rich white people championing the cause, it was the big bad racist city against a family trying to protect their poor brown nanny.

      How do I know race was in the equation? Because I've dealt with people enough to know the difference.

    38. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      It's time to end security theater and demand real security.

      How about we just end the security theater. I'd rather have my freedom than "real" security.

    39. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      You need to look up the definitions of homicide, murder and manslaughter. Murder and manslaughter are types of homicide. In many jursdictions like Canada and the UK the offence is under the impaired driving statute.

      How do I know race was in the equation? Because I've dealt with people enough to know the difference.

      So what? It is not surprising that people given little, no or improper training will use profiling improperly. That does not mean that people could be not be trained to profile properly.

    40. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      So what? It is not surprising that people given little, no or improper training will use profiling improperly. That does not mean that people could be not be trained to profile properly.

      If it's as easy as you assert, why hasn't anyone done it in the US? As you say, obvious race issues with profiling were well known 70 years ago. If it were as simple and easy as you assert, why has it never been done?

    41. Re:Screening areas as terrorist targets by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      The almost 800,000 police officers in the US have to be trained to deal with many different situations; traffic stops, armed robberies, investigations, etc. A security agent can be very well trained in detecting and dealing with security issues. This could include intensive training on profiling. It is the difference between a general participation and a heart surgeon. While they are both doctors the GP is probably not the best one to do heart surgery; just as a beat cop is probably not the best to do profiling.

  17. Re:Those poor people by TheCarp · · Score: 1

    > Looks like some sociopath finally noticed that a slow security checkpoint just means there's an easy
    >crowd in an unsecured area.

    Maybe they should put a security checkppoint in front of the line to protect the people in the line?

    > What little empathy I can muster for anyone in LA

    I just take comfort in knowing how nice Arizona bay is going to be.

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  18. Impossible! by ApplePy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This could not possibly be real --

    a man removed an assault rifle from a bag at Los Angeles International Airport and opened fire.

    Assault rifles are illegal in California; therefore this could never have happened!

    --
    That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    1. Re:Impossible! by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 0, Troll

      Assault rifles have been illegal in all 50 of the United States since 1986 at the very least.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    2. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Initial reports are that the perpetrator was an ex TSA official.

    3. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue is we need to ban assault PEOPLE. That's where the legislature screwed up.

    4. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They have not been illegal. All you need is a $200 tax stamp to own one (and the usual, no felony, etc.) All the assault rifles that are legal for purchase were manufactured before 1986 when the machine gun registry was closed. The states have the right to decide that they don't want machine guns at all but there is no federal prohibition.

    5. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So much for gun control. People don't seem to get the point that the laws only applies to law abiding citizens. Not even the death penalty would stop people from going nuts after, for example, taking too many drugs, street or otherwise. Which appear to be the only common denominator shooters have.

      All this stop everything that moves knee-jerks is what get's us all the stupid laws that polititians feel they have to do or they are "weak on crime" or some other BS. To hell with doing what is right, just follow the standards of the least successful kind of attitude in some attempt to be politically correct.

      The way some people look at society you get the idea that if they were correct mankind would have been more or less wiped out by ourselves loong ago. I hope the pendilum don't continue swinging too far in this direction before swinging back.

    6. Re:Impossible! by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Assault rifles are illegal in California; therefore this could never have happened!

      Exactly! This person should have been caught at the inter-state border crossings. He was probably crossing over from Oregon.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    7. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The politicians, media, and anti-gun lobby rant and rave about "assault weapons" which does not exist but they keep putting new weapons on the list as "assault weapons."

    8. Re:Impossible! by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      The assault weapons laws in CA have more holes in them than high quality Swiss cheese.

    9. Re:Impossible! by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Assault rifles are illegal in California; therefore this could never have happened!

      So is murder, so not only did he not use a gun, but he didn't kill anyone either, right?

      So not only is 'gun control' moot since only criminals will have guns, but we may as well repeal murder laws since criminals will ignore those too, right? Indeed, why have laws at all, since it just means more things on the books for criminals to ignore?

      Is that argument you are making? Because that's what it sounds like.

    10. Re:Impossible! by ApplePy · · Score: 0

      No.

      Take your straw man and go home, moron.

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    11. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All you need is a $200 tax stamp to own one (and the usual, no felony, etc.)

      And the written permission of your local sheriff or chief of police.

    12. Re:Impossible! by vux984 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Take your straw man and go home

      So, seriously then, what was your argument?

      Because if the "if guns are criminalized, then only criminals will have guns" mantra wasn't it, then I'm genuinely curious what point you were making.

      And if that mantra was the point, then my Murder example may be hyperbole, but the point is valid. Making anything illegal doesn't stop the criminals from doing it. It never has, and it never will.

      It does however give society a chance to catch a murderer-to-be with gun prior to using it. Naturally, a determined would-be murderer has any number of other options from knives to knitting needles and we can't realistically ban all of them, and should not try to. But a ban on a weapon whose designed function is to kill or incapacitate lots of people at range quickly might save lives, if the weapon is detected before its used.

    13. Re:Impossible! by ApplePy · · Score: 0

      then my Murder example may be hyperbole,

      Yes, it was hyperbole, and it was stupid. Almost no one favors legalizing murder.

      But a ban on a weapon whose designed function is to kill or incapacitate lots of people at range quickly might save lives, if the weapon is detected before its used.

      And this is the same old tired argument all gun-fearing twits repeat endlessly. It equates to fearing plastic baggies because they can be used to hold cocaine or suffocate infants. Won't someone PLEEEEASE think of the CHILDREN!!!

      Give it a fucking rest. 99.999% of firearms usage in this country is purely for sport. That's hundreds of millions of guns and billions of rounds of ammunition. By your "logic", this country should be a perpetual bloodbath, or extinct.

      You're suggesting that we remove the constitutional rights of some 100 million Americans because a few abuse that right. It's a bullshit notion, it's always been bullshit, and it will always be bullshit. Check your emotions and try using your head for something more than a hat rack.

      And no, I will not be gentle and reasonable on this subject. I will not be nice to people who don't believe in human liberty. You want the government to take away my rights? You can just go play a nice game of hide & go fuck yourself.

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    14. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assault rifles are illegal in California

      Assault rifles are actually legal provided they don't have scary-looking cosmetic features (e.g., a bayonet mount) which would qualify them as assault weapons.

    15. Re:Impossible! by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      Well, since this is California he made sure his magazines all had 10 rounds or less in them. You know, cause psychos care about complying with the law while shooting police at the airport.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    16. Re:Impossible! by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      ... and surrender your 4A rights.

    17. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nah, he'll have extra charges, along with the murder charges, and that'll teach him to never do that again...

    18. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, I'm a big believe in states rights, but in this case, bullshit. That's something specifically addressed by the constitution. You should read that thing that Bush wiped his ass with sometime.

    19. Re:Impossible! by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      This could not possibly be real --

      a man removed an assault rifle from a bag at Los Angeles International Airport and opened fire.

      Assault rifles are illegal in California; therefore this could never have happened!

      I agree. Not only did he pull out an assault rifle, but apparently his luggage was not lost either. That's unpossible.

      --
      ~X~
    20. Re:Impossible! by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      Problem is, the US is a federation of States and each State has its own gun laws, of varying strictness. Combine that with the fact that anyone can freely travel and move goods between the States at will ... and yeah, gun control at a state level isn't going to work. It can't possibly work.

      To prove whether or not gun control works in the US, the laws would have to be consistent everywhere in the nation (or defined Federally). I'm not making any judgement either way on whether it WOULD work ... I'm just saying that it has no chance whatsoever of working at a state level. So the argument (which you see quite often) that 'gun control doesn't work because a gun crime occurred in state X, which has strict gun laws' is absurd.

    21. Re:Impossible! by hairyfish · · Score: 1

      So much for gun control. People don't seem to get the point that the laws only applies to law abiding citizens.

      Depends how good your law enforcement is. I'm pretty sure the North Koreans have a tight implementation of their control measures. Maybe you're just doing it wrong?

    22. Re:Impossible! by hairyfish · · Score: 1

      And no, I will not be gentle and reasonable on this subject.

      Of course not, that is why the term gun nut was invented. You cannot argue a case reasonably or logically so you just get all angry.

      You want the government to take away my rights?

      I want the government to regulation society for the greater good, just like they have done since civilisation began.

    23. Re: Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that sarcasm?

    24. Re:Impossible! by ApplePy · · Score: 1

      You cannot argue a case reasonably or logically so you just get all angry.

      I used to argue it reasonably and logically all the time. I'm quite good at it. I have piles of empirical data and mountains of historical analysis. But people like you are immune to logic and reason. Every issue of every gun magazine has at least one article with that logic and reason, but you won't read them because those facts don't fit your opinions. I have years of experience trying to make lefties see reason. I've given up. It's impossible.

      I want the government to regulation society for the greater good, just like they have done since civilisation began.

      I'd agree with you... but show me a government that does that. Therein lies the problem.

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    25. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, in california, where the shooting took place, you can't get the tax stamp for "assult rifles" (aka: class3 weapons). Our laws are more restrictive than the general federal regulations, and therefore the class3 weapons aren't legal even with the federal tax stamp normally required to own them in other states.

      Class3 weapons are not just full automatic weapons either, they include sawed off shotguns, "street sweepers", cane guns/swords, and other types of weapons as well I believe.

    26. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take your straw man and go home

      "straw man", also "strawman" - Definition: a term used on Slashdot when one is incapable of responding to an argument by questioning the assumptions or the logic. A clever form of sophistry that attempts to hide the fact that sophistry is in use.

      Example:

      "Socrates, take your strawman and go home, or we'll poison you."

    27. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But a ban on a weapon whose designed function is to kill or incapacitate lots of people at range quickly might save lives, if the weapon is detected before its used.

      It might some save lives from from these random events, but what about the effect of nullifying Law-abiding citizens who use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day. Most of these people don't even have to shoot the would-be-criminal, but mearly draw down or brandish their weapon to make them stop

      In fact citizens shoot and stop criminal more than twice as often as police do. So you would be nullifying the effect of gun owners protecting themselves (or others) in the process of making guns illegal so you can find the murderers by means of gun possession.

      So if you ban guns to prevent the bad uses of them which in 2011 there were 8,583 gun murders (all types of guns total), you will also be preventing the 2.5 million uses of them for self-defense to save an innocent person(s) life. So you would effectually have an opposite effect (according to the stats).

      Which is something you see, but don't hear about in places like the UK and Australia where they toute that gun violence has gone down since banning them. What the reality is, is that while that may be true, other violent crimes like assult, rape, and stabbings have all surged up as no one has the ability to defend themselves against an attacker. You may say, the victims can fight back, but a 110lb woman is at a serious disadvantage to a 200lb attacker bent on raping/mugging or doing serious bodily harm to her. The same can be said of men as well, since not everyone is a fit, body built, MMA trained action hero that can knock out an attacker with a single punch.

      For those who claim, "at least with a knife, they have to get up close to me", the same can be said about the self defense with a knife, you have let the attacker get right up to you before you can defend yourself with a knife (if you have one). For those 2.5 million people who defended themselves with a gun each year, I'm sure they are glad that they didn't have to "let" the attacker get right up to arms reach before being able to defend themself.

    28. Re:Impossible! by hairyfish · · Score: 1

      I have piles of empirical data and mountains of historical analysis. But people like you are immune to logic and reason.

      What exactly is a "person like me"? That statement itself implies you cannot construct a coherent argument.

      I have years of experience trying to make lefties see reason. I've given up. It's impossible.

      Yet here we are. What was that you were saying about logic and reason?

  19. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm glad it's only six. It's really hard to believe there weren't more. A guy with an assault weapon aimin' to misbehave at a busy airport terminal? You'd think there would be dozens dead and many more injured.

  20. Why not kill the guy? by linuxguy · · Score: 0

    So he is shooting at people and has already killed one TSA officer. Why even try to take him alive? If there is ever a justification for shoot first and ask questions later, this is it. Now we'll have to pay for his room and board and legal fees for years to come.

    1. Re:Why not kill the guy? by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Informative

      He was shot and is in critical condition. Happy?

    2. Re:Why not kill the guy? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      He was shot multiple times in the chest yet somehow survived. I don believe the officer was thinking about custody at the time, only about stopping him.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  21. The NRA must be pleased by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1, Insightful

    That guy exercised the *shit* out of his second amendment rights. It's too bad Thomas Jefferson isn't around to high five him.

    1. Re:The NRA must be pleased by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      That guy exercised the *shit* out of his second amendment rights.

      Seems you haven't read the amendment:

      A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      There are many who debate the nature of the right it does recognize, but few, if any, would argue that it documents a right to discharge their firearms in such a manner.

      You might be referring to The Declaration, which does encumber citizens with a duty to use their arms in certain circumstances -- the reason the second exists -- but without a credible report of his motive, that angle is as yet unsupported (and I find it highly doubtful a priori).

    2. Re:The NRA must be pleased by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 3, Informative

      but few, if any, would argue that it documents a right to discharge their firearms in such a manner.

      But a whole bunch of people spend a whole lot of time and money making sure that nutjobs have access to guns that fire 60 rounds per minute.

    3. Re:The NRA must be pleased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're one of those people that thinks every black gun is an "assault rifle," aren't you?

    4. Re:The NRA must be pleased by bigfinger76 · · Score: 2

      I thought it wasn't an assault rifle?

    5. Re:The NRA must be pleased by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      My post is one sentence long. Do you see the words "assault rifle" in it?

    6. Re:The NRA must be pleased by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      But a whole bunch of people spend a whole lot of time and money making sure that nutjobs have access to guns that fire 60 rounds per minute.

      You mean the military, right?

      Wait, let me try again.

      But a whole bunch of people spend a whole lot of time and money making sure that nutjobs have access to guns that fire 60 rounds per minute.

      If you practice reloading, you can reasonably fire more than 60 rounds per minute from a semi-automatic rifle. If you practice firing enough, you can reasonably put many of them on target, too. Today's actual assault rifles (actually designed for military use, and sold only to militaries in this country and most others which permit firearm ownership) will put hundreds of rounds on target per minute, not a mere five dozen.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:The NRA must be pleased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He sees them everywhere. </whispers>

    8. Re:The NRA must be pleased by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      He shot a TSA officer. I think many people would like to high five him. Mr. Jefferson will have to get in line.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    9. Re:The NRA must be pleased by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      If you modified it to have a 60 round magazine you could probably put 60 rounds a minute on target with a Lee Enfield bolt action rifle.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    10. Re:The NRA must be pleased by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If you modified it to have a 60 round magazine you could probably put 60 rounds a minute on target with a Lee Enfield bolt action rifle.

      My understanding is that it's feasible to deliver about 30. With training you can load a five round stripper clip in no time atall. I can do it moderately quickly on my Peruvian Mauser and that's not nearly as easy.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:The NRA must be pleased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And a whole bunch of other people spend a whole lot of time and money making sure sane and responsible people who can prevent nutjobs from doing things like this DON'T have access to guns at all.

      Point countered...

    12. Re:The NRA must be pleased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a flawed right how it's currently practiced. Since the whole purpose of it was to allow for a rebellion uprising in cases of a tyrannical government US citizens should either have the right to bear the same arms as the US government, tanks, aircraft, nukes, etc, or simply strip the right away for the fake mockery that it's become by today's standard so at least we're not all lying to ourselves.

      The founders envisioned it in a time where arms citizens used were on a level playing field with the military in regards to munitions. In this day and age however there is zero chance of a militia forming that could free a state from the military. They can blow you up from 3-6 miles away and you'd be dead before you even realized. So what's the point of keeping up this charade that the 2nd amendment is actually useful in this day and age. It's pointless except for hunting which lets be honest isn't the reason most people have a gun and isn't the reason for the 2nd amendment.

  22. News for nerds by Sigvatr · · Score: 0

    Whenever I think, "News for nerds" I'm not really thinking about shooting people.

    1. Re:News for nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then don't click the fucking link. This is a current event, and I would be willing to bet the majority of the users on this site are interested in it. If your not, go back to reading articles about your favorite linux distro and spare us the bullshit.

    2. Re:News for nerds by Sigvatr · · Score: 1

      I get bombarded with news about current events everywhere, Slashdot doesn't need to jump on board the bandwagon.

  23. Conspiracy theory by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1, Insightful

    DHS wants more funding, so they told this man "You do this or we kill everyone you know in the slowest, most painful way that no one will ever hear about"

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:Conspiracy theory by phorm · · Score: 2

      Locked in a room and forced to a Justin Beiber & Miley Cyrus singalong with William Shatner as a special guest?

    2. Re:Conspiracy theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A weak one at that. Mind control is easy.

    3. Re:Conspiracy theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shatner would make it palatable...

    4. Re:Conspiracy theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's funny because if it were [redacted] that would mean [redacted]

    5. Re:Conspiracy theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds fun! You just have to remember that I'm not locked in a room with them... They're locked in a room with ME!

  24. and now the blaming begins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How long before Alex Jones starts claiming this was a false flag operation?

  25. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People want guns, not innocent people getting slaughtered.

  26. Re:Those poor people by evilviper · · Score: 0

    You want guns, deal the effects of having milions of freely available guns/shotguns/rifles/assault rifles to the citizenry.

    A man could easily injure more than 6 people with a simple chef's knife, baseball bat, large flashlight, sharpened pencils, etc.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  27. Assuming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... he didn't use a phaser, go the fuck away.

  28. Re:Those poor people by HatofPig · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Really? +4? That's despicable, security guards are fucking people too. Or is this some kind of sick justice for you and those who up-moderated you? How can you justify this an consider yourself 'people'? If a gunman mowed down a courtroom during a tech-giant patent trial, would you eschew any sympathy for the lawyers who died too? Not liking the TSA is one thing, but implying a random person deserved to be fatally shot by a crazed gunman at an airport is sociopathic.

    --
    Silicon & Charybdis McLuhan Kildall Papert Kay
  29. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You're a dick. That's all.

  30. Some overseas airports do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know that Istanbul (IST) has almost curbside chechpoints.
    Having to pull my netbook just inside the door when leaving was not expected. After that, my status gets me into the "special handling" lines so very little extra hassles happen.

    Still, security bottlenecks are a terrible waste - security theatre.

  31. Experts by intermodal · · Score: 1

    Well, if you need to identify something deplorable, may as well ask the experts.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  32. Nothing new here, move along, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Murricans shooting eachother again

    >News for Nerds
    ha

  33. Firearm Legal Status by awkScooby · · Score: 4, Informative

    An assault rifle, by definition is a machine gun. The gun used at LAX wasn't (as best we can tell from the available information). So the first sentence in the summary is inaccurate.

    There's speculation, based on a photo on Twitter that the rifle is a Ruger Mini-14, in which case it may not have qualified as an "assault weapon" as defined by Federal Law. Under Feinstein's last [failed] assault weapon ban, the Ruger Mini-14 with a collapsible stock was banned, but the other Mini-14's were ok. It would depend on whether or not the stock folds/collapses.

    Under California law, the pistol grip, and ability to accept a detachable magazine are sufficient to classify it as an "assault weapon."

    Looks like high capacity magazines were used, although they may have had inserts to render them legal (i.e. limit them to 10 rounds). If they are large capacity and he owned them before 2000, they're legal. Otherwise they would only be legal if they were limited to 10 rounds (or fewer).

    We can say with high confidence that a semi-automatic rifle was used. Under the previous Federal assault weapon ban, and the more recent failed Federal effort, this rifle may or may not have been considered an "assault weapon." Under California law this rifle is an assault weapon. The magazines may or may not have been legal.

    1. Re:Firearm Legal Status by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 0

      An assault rifle, by definition is a machine gun.

      Oh would you people give this crap a rest. There is nowhere, in any country in the world, where outside of the military, the term "assault rifle" is used to mean a full-auto. Nowhere. Just stop regurgitating the same bullshit every single fucking time this subject comes up.

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    2. Re:Firearm Legal Status by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All he did was state the legal definitions as defined by the U.S. government and the state of California. Why does that make you so upset?

    3. Re:Firearm Legal Status by joel48 · · Score: 1

      But at least "full-auto" means something concrete. "Assault rifle" as a term was invented to generally mean a gun that does something 'bad', or looks generally like a type of gun that did something bad in a movie once. A proper definition doesn't exist based on innate capability, but instead of makes and model that look dangerous, regardless of actual firearm mechanisms or functionality...

    4. Re:Firearm Legal Status by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An assault rifle, by definition is a machine gun.

      No.

      The M16 is called an assault rifle by most people, and there are M16 variants used by the US military that are 3-round burst or single-shot.

    5. Re: Firearm Legal Status by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3 round burst rifle is a machine gun under NFA.

    6. Re:Firearm Legal Status by awkScooby · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

      • It must be an individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder
      • It must be capable of selective fire
      • It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle
      • Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable magazine rather than a feed-belt

      Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are technically not assault rifles despite frequently being considered as such. For example, semi-automatic-only rifles like the AR-15 (on which the M16 rifle is based) that share parts or design characteristics with assault rifles are not assault rifles, as they are not capable of switching to automatic fire and thus are not selective-fire capable.

    7. Re:Firearm Legal Status by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 1

      I said, "outside of the military". The wikipedia definition is based on (mainly US) military use.

      Neither the US Federal, nor state assault weapon legislation uses that definition. Including California, where the shooting actually took place. But every single fucking time a new shooting is reported the same whinging idiots like you repeat the same bullshit "assault rifle means machine gun" gun-nut meme because oh horror the media correctly referred to a weapon that is legally defined as a assault rifle as an "assault rifle".

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    8. Re:Firearm Legal Status by awkScooby · · Score: 1

      There is no legal definition of assault rifle. The term assault rifle originated with the Nazis, and is generally accepted as having the definition I previously provided. Given the select fire nature, assault rifles are strictly regulated under the National Firearms Act. Note: the NFA does not define or use the term assault rifle.

      Over time, there have been multiple defitions of the term assault weapon. There was a Federal definition, until the assault weapons ban sunset. Several states have their own definition. That's a much newer term, which many believe was invented to cause confusion, as it's similar sounding to assault rifle.

      because oh horror the media correctly referred to a weapon that is legally defined as a assault rifle as an "assault rifle".

      I would request that you provide a link to this legal definition of assault rifle of which you speak, but I know you can't because it does not exist. I believe you are one of those who has confused the terms assault rifle and assault weapon.

  34. Delusional and Angry by mendax · · Score: 1

    There are many reasons why this fellow started to shoot people. Given how terrible service is on airlines these days in "cattle class", long lines, TSA agents who want to "touch my junk" (the pedophile who touched mine when I was a kid was enough), late flights, no-fly lists, and more horrors, it's no wonder that this guy goes nuts. He's probably a frequent flier on United.

    --
    It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
    1. Re:Delusional and Angry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How did this get +2? Second rate joke, no points made.

      Done with slashdot. Fuck this place.

  35. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Indeed. My bet is that it was not an assault rifle at all. Just a scary looking firearm. Of course all scary looking firearms are branded by news outlets as being assault rifles these days.

  36. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It leads me to believe the guy didn't go in with the intention of killing as many innocent people as possible. There was a clear motive and plan IMO. He could have easily dropped dozens of people at a checkpoint if he wanted.

  37. Re:Shooting TSA agents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amen.

  38. Re:Shooting TSA agents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Probably a /. Snowden obsessed troll - Paul Ciancia

  39. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you want to argue against gun control, be my guest. But please, stop using this fucking awful argument. I could kill dozens of people in a few seconds with an assault rifle.

    If you know of a knife/bat/flashlight I can accomplish this with, I would love to own it.

  40. Re:damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There tends to be much confusion right after events like these. Give it time.

    Son, wisdom like you express above isn't welcome around here,
    because we like to make irrational stupid comments rather than
    actually think things through. Of course this is an idiotic way to discuss
    things but that is the way Slashdot regulars do things.

  41. But wait... by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    How did he have a gun in the airport?
    Guns are banned there, the sign CLEARLY says so.

    I mean, that's why pretty much nobody else was armed, right?

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:But wait... by BetterThanCaesar · · Score: 1

      You're right, laws and rules don't work because they can be broken, and since they can be broken they're worthless. So let's not have any at all.

      --
      "Stop failing the Turing test!" -- Dilbert
  42. Tory from Mythbusters was there by tekrat · · Score: 1

    Apparently; Tory Belleci from MYTHBUSTERS was there, and called in to CNN not that long after the incident was being covered by the network. Not sure if other Mythbusters were there also as I couldn't hear the entire conversation (TV is on low at work).

    So, could be an interesting next season???

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:Tory from Mythbusters was there by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Why would that have anything to do with their next season?

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    2. Re:Tory from Mythbusters was there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He and a co-host were heading to another pumpkin chucking contest.

    3. Re:Tory from Mythbusters was there by PRMan · · Score: 1

      He tweeted it and they contacted him. He was as surprised as anyone.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    4. Re:Tory from Mythbusters was there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grant Imahara was there, too, and tweeted the whole thing.

  43. Re:damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good thing PRISM is around to find these people before they commit these acts!

  44. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You're a dick. That's all.

    No and you want to know whay ? Because feeling sorry time and time again doesn't fix the problem. Every time a tragedy like this occurs, we hear people being sorry, politicians shedding crocodile tears and then what ? Nothing changes because Americans and the NRA are so in love with their weapons that they blame everything EXCEPT guns. So we put the blame on films, we put the blame on videogames, we put the blame on sex, we put the blame on hocus pocus etc... But we never have the political resolve to fix the real cause of these massacres. The freely available guns in this country.
    Courtesy of the fucking second amendment.
    America is a country of guns with all it entails. Deal with it.

  45. GOP solution by tekrat · · Score: 0

    Hey, the GOP has offered EXACTLY the same regarding Obamacare -- they want to get rid of it, but have offered no replacement, no alternative. Apparently, the only thing they want is for us to go back to the way things were, where you were denied coverage unless you were exceedingly healthy.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:GOP solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the only thing they want is for us to go back to the way things were, where you were denied coverage unless you were exceedingly healthy.

      The bill repealing the giant turd that is Obamacare, could easily also say "Insurance companies are prevented from denying coverage to anyone with a pre-existing condition."

      But nice try partisan asshat.

      Perhaps *you* should focus on policy, and not party.

  46. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's despicable, security guards are fucking people too.

    People who are made out of garbage are still technically human, so perhaps you're right about that.

    With that said, there is the possibility that it was a joke, and I found it rather funny, despise what some people might say.

  47. Re:Those poor people by sI4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    So we put the blame on films, we put the blame on videogames, we put the blame on sex, we put the blame on hocus pocus etc

    You forgot to mention that we put the blame on guns.

    --
    Ignorance is a choice
  48. Re:Those poor people by lgw · · Score: 0

    Several "mass stabbings" have happened in the past couple of years. When people are tightly packed, this doesn't require a ninja, just a kitchen knife.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  49. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Sorry, but I can't really get sad over a jackboot thug groper getting the bullet. It's the price you pay for doing the job. Stop groping me and making me walk through cancer-causing nudie scanners and I might get some sympathy. This like crying over a guard of a concentration camp getting shot. Don't have the tears to waste.

  50. And where was... by wbr1 · · Score: 1

    ... the NEW Intel on this? If they are tapping everything they sure aren't finding the signal in the noise.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:And where was... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      or "they" consider this to be the noise.

  51. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People want guns, not innocent people getting slaughtered.

    You can't have one without the other I'm afraid.
    Have you realised most of these massacres are carried out by law abiding citizens that one day simply went crazy ? Cut the weapon supply and you can fix most of this problem.

  52. Re:Those poor people by lgw · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    The TSA is a volunteer service. I have just slightly more sympathy for them than the "fucking people too" who joined the SS. But of course there's no excuse for shooting at them - you never know where those bullets might end up; you'll likely hurt someone nearby!

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  53. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What!? Now lawyers are people too?

  54. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And to them, all guns are scary, Therefore all guns are assault weapons.

  55. Shouldn't the NSA by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    etc.

  56. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mass stabbing: Many were injured today...

    Mass shooting: Many were killed today...

  57. Re:Those poor people by fisted · · Score: 1

    security guards are fucking people too

    There's the problem. Just stop them from reproducing and the whole matter solves itself.

  58. Re:Those poor people by X0563511 · · Score: 2

    You could, yes. But that's never what you see happening, incidentally.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  59. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gee, and you'd think any job would be better than a cashier McDonalds in this economy.

  60. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You can't have one without the other I'm afraid.

    But our desires remain the same; people don't want others to be slaughtered. Not feeling sympathy for innocent people being killed just because people want the freedom to own guns is just silly.

  61. Re:Those poor people by lgw · · Score: 1

    No, that's a myth. A stab wound from a (kitchen-sized) knife typically does more damage than a bullet, at least for torso wounds. And the knife never runs out of ammo. Whether shot or stabbed in the torso, your survival is more about how long it takes you to medical care, either way you're bleeding to death internally unless you get help soon.

    There's a big difference when people are spread out, or when they might fight back, but when it's a bunch of people tightly packed and disarmed, a knife is sadly just as deadly.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  62. Re:Those poor people by eyenot · · Score: 2

    Do you need to see a wine list of all the people that you, too, can't stomach to consider as "people", to remind you of how wrong you're being? Or would you prefer to be treated as a person?

    --
    "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
  63. I heard you like security checkpoints . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    . . . so here's a security checkpoint for your security checkpoint.

  64. Re:Those poor people by suutar · · Score: 1

    But by the same token, we shouldn't let you own it, now should we?

  65. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It could be worse. They could have had to work for Dice.com.

  66. Re:Those poor people by HatofPig · · Score: 1

    I can't see how working on the very-bottom rung of America's admittedly bad domestic security apparatus disqualifies one for personhood. I'm doubt this TSA officer has killed any innocent people, likely a prerequisite for inclusion on my wine list if I had one.

    --
    Silicon & Charybdis McLuhan Kildall Papert Kay
  67. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The gunman is also a person and was shot too, yet you probably wouldn't have objected to a joke at his expense. Bin Laden was a person and yet there was open celebrating in the streets when he was killed. It's all about degrees of evil and where you draw the line. Not everyone agrees to what degree specific people are evil and where you draw the deference line.

  68. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking of awful arguments...

    I could kill dozens of people in a few seconds with an assault rifle.

    No, you couldn't. Well, maybe if they were all clustered around a barrel of highly-volatile explosives like in a video game, but otherwise no.

  69. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stainless steel knives are a bitch to keep sharp.

  70. Mythbusters by Stolzy · · Score: 1

    Apparently, Mythbusters' presenters Grant Imahara and Tory Belleci were inside LAX when this happened. From the Mythbusters FB page: "Grant and Tory were present in Terminal 3 at Los Angeles International Airport at the time of today's shooting incident. Both were en route to Delaware for the filming of 'Punkin Chunkin'. Grant and Tory are safe and being rerouted." /Stolzy

  71. Re:Those poor people by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I want to get drunk, but I don't want a hangover.

    I want to stuff myself immobile, but I don't want to get fat.

    I want to screw anything with a pulse, but I don't want to get a hurty-hurty on my wee-wee.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  72. Time for Gun control in US by auzy · · Score: 1

    This is one case where Gun control laws would actually be highly beneficial, as nobody is allowed to bring a weapon into an airport, so the self defense argument falls apart.

    Since we've had gun control laws here in AU, such events have become not-so-common

    1. Re:Time for Gun control in US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he actually used an assault rifle then the weapon he used WAS illegal. So if anything it would be an argue against gun control.

    2. Re:Time for Gun control in US by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      You can't take a gun into an airport in California, either. Didn't stop this guy.

    3. Re:Time for Gun control in US by auzy · · Score: 1

      Yes, but, it would have been much harder for him to find an assault rifle, and his mental health would have been possibly evaluated before he was provided with a rifle.

    4. Re:Time for Gun control in US by rthille · · Score: 1

      Sure you can. You can fly with a gun on the plane. No ammo, and the gun has to be an approved situation (I forget if it's a locked box, or just a lock), and in the luggage you are checking, and you have to declare it. But you can certainly take a gun into an airport in CA.

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    5. Re:Time for Gun control in US by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Which is to say, it would have been useless.

    6. Re:Time for Gun control in US by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      And, of course, this subreddit wouldn't exist. Guns are used for good far more than for bad.

    7. Re:Time for Gun control in US by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      nobody is allowed to bring a weapon into an airport

      Sure you can, just not beyond the checkpoint (if it's loaded).

    8. Re:Time for Gun control in US by auzy · · Score: 1

      The problem is, how do you know that the people using weapons to defend aren't actually the type of people who may end up getting so angry that they use it in an offensive manner?

      And, defensive weapons such as Capsicum spray and Tasers are far better defensive weapons with the additional benefit that it won't kill another person if a mistake is made. They are far better defensive weapons because they almost completely eliminate the risk of accidentally murdering an innocent person, and can still incapacitate an enemy. If you can explain some reasons why semi-automatic guns are more effective that non-lethal alternatives, then feel free to let me know.

      It's one thing to defend yourself with a pistol. It's another proving that you were acting in self defense, and its another entirely different case to prove why it wasn't manslaughter. Gun's are an extremely risky option to use for defense.

    9. Re:Time for Gun control in US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can explain some reasons why semi-automatic guns are more effective that non-lethal alternatives, then feel free to let me know.

      Because your can of pepper spray is useless for

      1) Shooting at large game animal for food
      2) Shooting at criminal with a firearm that is killing innocent people
      3) Shooting at members of an invading army
      4) Shooting at armed pirates on open waters

      If a can of pepper spray was better than a firearm, militaries the world over would be equipping soldiers with cans of pepper spray and saving alot of money.

      As for accidentally hitting a non-target ... practice makes perfect.

      It's one thing to defend yourself with a can of pepper spray. It's another proving it works against a person firing at you and others with a gun, and its another entirely different case to prove it works against game animals. Pepper spray is an extremely risky option to use for sustaining your own life.

    10. Re:Time for Gun control in US by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      The problem is, how do you know that the people using weapons to defend aren't actually the type of people who may end up getting so angry that they use it in an offensive manner?

      Angry? What does angry have to do with anything? Angry people will kill with whatever's at hand. Crazy people shoot up groups. Criminals kill people because they're rivals, or because they're in the way, or because they want something.

      If you can explain some reasons why semi-automatic guns are more effective that non-lethal alternatives, then feel free to let me know.

      Sure: dead men don't fight any more. How much more effective do you want to get? And what mistakes are you talking about? As the saying goes: when seconds count, the police are only minutes away (and in a lot of places, that's 15-20 minutes, not 3-5 - a long time to sit around with a pissed-off criminal in your house). BTW, the Taser is a less-lethal weapon, not a nonlethal.

      It's one thing to defend yourself with a pistol. It's another proving that you were acting in self defense, and its another entirely different case to prove why it wasn't manslaughter.

      There is so much wrong with this statement that I can't even wrap my mind around it. If it's self-defense, it's not manslaughter. It's self-defense. A criminal who enters people's homes doesn't advertise "I'm only here for the TV", after all. The presumption must be that he is there to visit bodily harm - rape or murder - on the inhabitants. Someone who breaks into my home invites summary execution, and the local police are perfectly fine with that.

    11. Re:Time for Gun control in US by auzy · · Score: 1

      The local police don't decide that (the local court does), and, you can have trouble proving sometimes that the action taken was appropriate (which is one reason why Australian Police no longer carry around guns, and they need to defend themselves against criminals far more than yourself). Even worse, in a lot of incidents, people may catch you off-guard (as they did one of my mates in China), and, if they see you have a gun when they are kicking you on the ground, they might pick it up and kill you with it.

      There are plenty of equally effective alternatives out there, which eliminates these risks.

    12. Re:Time for Gun control in US by Mister+Xiado · · Score: 1

      Until a pack of abbos run up in your home, have a go at your wife, beat you to death, and drop your nice TV on the way out. Have a noice day. Better you should die than someone be scared by a gun. And Australia did this after a mentally retarded man shot a bunch of people at a restaurant in their heads... with no firearms experience. Why, if guns are made to kill, and cars are not, then all guns in America must surely be defective by design.

    13. Re:Time for Gun control in US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since we've had gun control laws here in AU, such events have become not-so-common

      If these events are now not-so-common in AU, are you implying they were common before? What were the long term trends?

      Are there other differences between the USA and AU that might account for the differences? Do you, for example, also have equally large levels of corruption in the government and an equally diseased legal system, unethical practice of law on a routine basis, and massive entrenched corruption? What about racial and ethnic issues and differences between the two countries, might that be relevant? Are their differences between the two economies? Do people get treated differently here and there, by their peers or by the system, in ways that might cause somebody to snap? Are the mental health care systems, both formal and otherwise, equally capable?

      More things to think about: Are their organizations and special interest groups that might benefit from exaggerating or misrepresenting the amount of gun related crime in the USA? What evidence is there that the mainstream US press, for example, does reporting on this subject with integrity and competence and a lack of bias? Are their reasons politicians might lie about this subject?

      Also, given that an improvised explosive capable of killing large numbers of people can readily be made from ordinary household chemicals legally available in most countries of the world, do you really believe that guns are the key issue here? Today when somebody snaps, they use a gun. Get rid of the guns (assuming that was even possible with a piece of technology the human race was able to make over a 1000 years ago), and they'll use a bomb. Would you like to estimate whether more people get killed, on average, per incident, with a bomb than with a gun?

      Laws permitting concealed carry have been adopted in the majority of US states now (something that wasn't the case 50 years ago), because a large body of statistical evidence collected by various social scientists, in studies subject to peer review, clearly show that having such a law reduces many categories of violent crime. For example, see economist John Lott's work.

      This is Slashdot, let's approach the discussion of issues using our intelligence and with respect for science.

    14. Re:Time for Gun control in US by demonlapin · · Score: 1
      You're quite correct about it being courts rather than cops, but they're equally fine with it. I can't think of a plausible case of defensive gun use that has even gone before a grand jury around here - a few years ago, an older gentleman shot some thieves trying to break into his business, and the district attorney praised him the next day.

      I did figure out part of the problem we've had so far - you work under very different standards of self defense. I live in a "castle doctrine" state, which means that my rights inside my home and on my own property are extremely broad - no duty to warn, no duty to retreat, no duty to use minimum force. If you're in my house and not actively running away from me, I can kill you.

      if they see you have a gun when they are kicking you on the ground, they might pick it up and kill you with it.

      Maybe, but if they're the type who would kill someone they've just mugged, I'm guessing that whether or not I carry one is really beside the point. Besides, I carry concealed - not open.

  73. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I want to get drunk, but I don't want a hangover.

    And you can feel crappy when you do get a hangover, despise your wishes. Look at his comment; he basically said that people shouldn't feel sympathy for the victims simply because many people want the freedom to own guns. Your comment is rather irrelevant to the one you replied to, when put in context.

  74. dude by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    If you are trying to kill a lot of people, use bombs, not guns.

    1. Re:dude by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      If you are trying to kill a few specific people, use guns, not bombs.

  75. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But we never have the political resolve to fix the real cause of these massacres. The freely available guns in this country.

    "Cause" does not mean what you think it does.

  76. One of those stories by Any+Web+Loco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is one of those stories where non-Americans sit back and watch, gobsmacked, as American /.ers rant on about gun-ownership, utterly unaware of what barking lunatics they all sound like.

    You guys have a massive cultural blind-spot when it comes to this stuff. It's incredible.

    1. Re:One of those stories by ApplePy · · Score: 1

      When are non-Americans ever going to learn that we're not you, and you're not us? That we don't share a common history and culture?

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    2. Re:One of those stories by TrekkieGod · · Score: 1

      This is one of those stories where non-Americans sit back and watch, gobsmacked, as American /.ers rant on about gun-ownership, utterly unaware of what barking lunatics they all sound like.

      It's ok. We watch rants from anti-gun people all the time and are utterly amazed they believe that making guns illegal will somehow solve the human problem of people who are just fucking nuts. As if it were completely impossible to go on a killing spree with any other easily accessible tools, such as a car. How many pedestrians do you think someone could take out before they were stopped?

      I don't own a gun. I don't really have a desire to own a gun. However, when I see a news story about someone just opening fire on other people for no reason I don't think, "if only gun ownership were illegal, this guy clearly wouldn't have been able to acquire one illegally, or start randomly stabbing people in the throat in a crowded location, or veer his vehicle off the road at 50 mph into a group of unsuspecting pedestrians, or built home-made explosives." I think, "holy shit, what the hell would make someone WANT to hurt other innocent people out of the blue?" Because that's the real problem. Can you picture yourself randomly killing a bunch of people? I sure can't put myself in that scenario, and it's not because I don't know where to get a gun.

      But hey, I must just be a barking lunatic because I just don't think most people want to hurt anyone else, whether they have the means to or not, and therefore don't think it's right for us to infringe on the freedoms of all those good people. Sorry about not being as enlightened as you are.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    3. Re:One of those stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys have a massive cultural blind-spot when it comes to this stuff. It's incredible.

      Not so blind that its obvious that the rest of the world is all too happy to disarm us.

    4. Re:One of those stories by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      The United States of America isn't like any other country. It's sort of defined by not being every other country on earth. And if it sometimes falls very far short of everything that it could and should be, that doesn't make the whole thing wrong.

      Wake me up when American gun ownership has killed as many people as the political ideologies of Europe killed between 1914 and 1945.

    5. Re:One of those stories by Cimexus · · Score: 2

      Agreed - the problem is nutcase people, not the tool. BUT ... the tool in this case is capable of killing more quickly, more effectively and at a greater distance than almost any other tool out there. You're somewhat removed from the act of killing, unlike a knife where you have to get up close, messy and personal. Mentally I think it's a lot harder to stab someone than shoot them - a higher degree of craziness is needed.

      Furthermore, a gun is designed specifically for the purpose, unlike a car or a bat or a chainsaw, which are tools that have other main uses (the ability for them to hurt other people is secondary). You couldn't ban cars or all those other items you could theoretically kill with, because they are needed for society to function. Guns, not as much (yes people shoot for sport, but it's not as vital a function as transportation/construction/etc.)

      For those reasons, I would argue that a gun isn't really comparable to other tools or methods of killing. Noone is arguing that banning guns will put a stop to violence - as you say, people will use other means to achieve the same end. But the barriers to killing with guns are far lower than with other tools or objects. The point is to do what you can to reduce violence like this, not necessarily eliminate it ... and guns are the 'low hanging fruit'.

    6. Re:One of those stories by Cimexus · · Score: 2

      True. But no two countries on earth share a common history and culture ... that's kind of why they are different countries to begin with. Yet almost developed countries, despite their differing cultures, have tighter gun controls and agree that this does more good than harm. It's not like there's some countries on one side and a roughly equal number on the other. It's pretty much the US who stands alone on this one (which is a common theme - see also: metric system).

      So yeah, America is different from other countries. But it's not 'special' ... it's no more 'different' from everyone else than any number of other pairs of countries you could name. (Note that I'm not arguing for or against gun control specifically in this post, I'm just pointing out that saying that you don't share a culture with others doesn't really have much relevance ... it's not like all 'non-Americans' are a monolithic bunch either!)

    7. Re:One of those stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We really dont care what you do to yourselves.
      Just leave the rest of us alone
      Bring your troops/drones home so they can join in your fun.

    8. Re:One of those stories by felrom · · Score: 1

      Do you live in America? There are over 320,000,000 guns in private hands here. How do you propose to take care of that low hanging fruit?

      I would propose that you are not anti-gun at all. You, in fact, love guns. You just want them to be in the government's hands and not the citizens' hands. I say this because as we both know, it would take government agents, WITH GUNS, to go around collecting a small fraction of the 320,000,000 guns in the country that people would give up.

      But let's look at the statistics:

      By conservative estimates there are at least 300,000,000 guns in the US. For the most recent year that statistics are available, there were about 11,000 non-suicide gun deaths (but this number still includes lawful homicide [ie, death by cop], lawful self defense, accidents, criminal on criminal murder [the most common type in gun control utopias like Chicago] and finally, bad guys killing good guys).

      That means that 0.00366% of guns were used in a "gun death", and again that number still reflects a lot deaths that are not representative of people breaking the law.

      Again, by conservative estimates, there are at least 80,000,000 gun owners in the US. If we still (wrongfully) assume that all 11,000 of those deaths were "bad" (ie, by ignoring the socially beneficial effect of cops lawfully killing bad guys, citizens lawfully killing bad guys, and bad guys killing bad guys), then 0.013% of gun owners caused a gun death. It looks like more than 99.987% of gun owners do, in fact, act responsibly with their firearms.

      Given the relative rarity of gun crimes in the US compared to ownership rates, and the President's recent failure to get an anti-gun law passed in his own Democrat-controlled senate, I'd argue that guns really aren't a low hanging fruit at all. They're one of the highest fruits since you'd need to remove 300,000,000 guns to even try to get at the ~11,000 used in crimes each year.

    9. Re:One of those stories by ApplePy · · Score: 1

      Yet almost developed countries, despite their differing cultures, have tighter gun controls and agree that this does more good than harm.

      That would depend on who you ask. Governments and bureaucrats universally favor gun control, as it results in a more easily subdued populace. And people from countries that get the USA to fight their wars for them. And news media who depend on mutual cooperation with government -- which is all of them.

      You'd get a different story from the 'man on the street' or the country folk in a lot of places, but that never gets reported.

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    10. Re:One of those stories by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      It's ok we understand Americans love the whole violence as a way to solve problems thing, the difference is we in the civilised world know it doesn't work.

    11. Re:One of those stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your country has no military then I take it. Fuckstain.

  77. TSA will persevere by rsborg · · Score: 1

    It's a cat and mouse game and unfortunately the TSA isn't going to win

    Oh ye of little faith - the TSA can and will use their ineptness as justification that we need *more TSA*.

    Expect it. The only valid purpose of the TSA is to grow until life is unbearable. And then grow further.

    This madness will only stop once we see the TSA (and the corrupt politicians and soulless equipment suppliers who create/feed it) as the terrorists who are bent on destroying our freedoms.

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  78. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    security guards are fucking people too.

    They sure are. Really fucking them.

  79. False flag, as usual... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... just like Sandy Hooknose, the Aurora Theatre 'shootings', 9/11, the 'holocaust', etc.etc.
    More Jew lies, designed to keep you as their slaves.

  80. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cut the weapon supply and you can fix most of this problem.

    So after Timothy McVeigh blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City, can we assume your solution to preventing that from happening again was to ban all yellow rental trucks and fertilizer ?

  81. Re:Those poor people by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

    If you know of a knife/bat/flashlight I can accomplish this with, I would love to own it.

    May I ask why or would that just make you angry?

    --
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  82. Re:Those poor people by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

    Not liking the TSA is one thing, but implying a random person deserved to be fatally shot by a crazed gunman at an airport is sociopathic.

    A TSA officer is not a 'random' person. And I think most of them do deserve it. Just my opinion of course.

    --
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  83. Re:Those poor people by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 2

    It's funny because people who get a decent paying job where bureaucrats want them to touch strangers' junk stop being people. It has nothing to do with the bureaucrats and the people who think security theater works.

  84. Re:Those poor people by sI4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    Oh, I think those bureaucrats and the people who support this nonsense are garbage as well.

    But you can't remove the blame from the people who actually violate people's rights. "I was just doing my job" is no excuse.

    --
    Ignorance is a choice
  85. Who cares? by bogie · · Score: 1

    Why does this offend you so much? Most people consider AR-15s Assault rifles right or wrong. I suppose we should be glad he didn't have the full auto military version but I really don't get your outrage.

    Blaming the news for reporting that he used an Assault rifle when most people likely agree the AR-15 falls within that common definition makes no sense. It's frankly unbelievable that you are more bothered out the term "Assault rifle" being mentioned vs the actual shooting. I'm sure the family of the murdered will be comforted by the fact it wasn't an "Assault" rifle and "only" an AR-15 that killed him.

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
    1. Re:Who cares? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The reason why we keep raising this point is because the distinction between "assault weapons" and everything else is so hazy as to make no sense whatsoever. It is a very arbitrary distinction that uses various external features of the firearm that do not meaningfully contribute to its efficiency as identifying. For example, even in the most recent AWB proposal (Feinsten's), Mini-14 with a pistol grip was an "assault weapon", and the same exact rifle without one was not.

      Given that, what's the point of distinguishing between the two in cases like this one? The only reason to do so is if you want to deliberately make an impression that there is actually a well-defined class of "assault weapons", and that it's those weapons that are responsible for wreaking havoc and should therefore be banned. In other words, manufacturing public hysteria.

  86. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People want guns, not innocent people getting slaughtered.

    You can't have one without the other I'm afraid.

    Nearly 150 million Americans have exactly that. Therefore, you're completely wrong.

  87. Why is it unusual? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    It doesn't seem like it's that unusual to be shot and live. You hear about people surviving multiple gunshot wounds all the time on the news.

    People aren't quite as easy to kill as movies make it out to be (or for that matter quite as durable as they make action heroes look).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Why is it unusual? by felrom · · Score: 1

      It doesn't seem like it's that unusual to be shot and live. You hear about people surviving multiple gunshot wounds all the time on the news.

      People aren't quite as easy to kill as movies make it out to be (or for that matter quite as durable as they make action heroes look).

      You're onto it. In reality handguns are terrible at killing people. It's not unheard of for people to be shot 10+ times with a handgun and keep going for several minutes before dying, or even live if they get medical treatment before they bleed out.

      People have a skewed perception when their only experience is watching movies like Taken where Liam Neson kills 30 guys in a row with a single shot from a handgun each, and every one of them falls right to the ground, instantly dead.

  88. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sounds like the only people who were shot were TSA agents, so he may have been passing on a bunch of people that would have been targets for a "kill as many people as I can" type.

  89. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Comments like this scare the piss out of me. Any time a person justifies murder as a response for the injustice that the TSA represents we have all taken a step closer to a real nightmare of armed revolution. The government is broken and our rights are constantly under attack, they have been since the start, but it was set up in a way to give us a peaceful means to change it. Some suggested reading:

    Shake Hands With the Devil

    You might learn how close we always are to a world where the neighbors that put Halloween candy in my daughter's bag this evening could kill her with a machete next year. All it takes is fear and the ability to view other people as non-human. You're at least half way there.

  90. Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Glad they outlawed "assault rifles" in LA. Else this could have been a lot worse.

  91. Re:Those poor people by sI4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    Another cretin who took my comment seriously. It is obvious that TSA agents are people; I just think that they're rather slimy people. If just that much scares the piss out of you, then you're rather oversensitive, I think.

    --
    Ignorance is a choice
  92. Re:Those poor people by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    It's actually very easy to believe there wasn't more. Consider this.

    The weapon that guy used is almost certainly semi-automatic, meaning one shot at a time (if you think that "assault weapon" means some kind of bullet hose where you just squeeze and hold the trigger and wave the barrel, then you've been reading too much HuffPo).

    Since it is an AR, it is reasonable to assume the most common caliber, .223/5.56. That is not a particularly powerful caliber - it is banned for deer hunting in most states because of a low likelihood of a one-shot drop; meaning that, unless an accurate hit at some vital organ is achieved, it is more likely to wound than to kill, and the wounds are not as messy as your typical medium-caliber (.308) hunting rifle or shotgun would produce.

    Furthermore, this being a TSA security checkpoint, there was more than one armed guard at the scene in immediate vicinity, who'd start acting as soon as they noticed him taking out the rifle (it's not exactly an inconspicuous thing!), so the guy really had very little time to pull off those shots before he was a target himself. So the most likely scenario is that he managed to take about a dozen fast and very inaccurate shots, only half of which actually hit anyone, and mostly in random locations.

  93. The US is not country X by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Attempting to compare the US to any other country when it comes to firearms is a totally ineffective discussion. Let's compare the US to Australia or the UK or Sweden or Germany or Honduras. In all of these examples you're trying to broach an entire country as a controlled experiment with 1 policy as if all other factors are the same...they are not.

    Australia is an island. Australia does not happen to border Mexico. Australia at the time of the ban did not happen to have close to a 1:1 population to firearm ratio. No other country has the exact same demographic concerns that are present in the US.

    - In the US, virtually any ban on any number or type of firearms will immediately create a huge black market due to saturation.
    - When mass shootings happen, as inconvenient as the facts may be, they do always happen in locations with little hope of fighting back. It's just a fact.
    - In the US, if you look at broad statistics about gun violence you actually find that over 50% of the homicides come from less than 12% of the population. I'm not going to spell it out for you, but you can feel free to look it up. Without that particular stat the US becomes one of the leaders in the world as far as least gun violence and does so with the highest per-capita gun ownership in the world.
    - If you opt to think through things logically, any semi-automatic handgun with a standard 17 round mag (or higher) can easily inflict the level of damage that you see at most of these incidents and it's easier to carry more rounds.

    We as a country tend to favor talking points and political stances over problem solving in virtually every case. If you actually look at the problem that you are trying to solve, in detail, the actual problem is response time. The only way to significantly reduce response time throughout the populace is to have more responders potentially available.

    I have zero problem with a location opting to ban concealed weapons as long as they are responsible for securing the location and not simply putting up a sign. Government buildings have guards and metal detectors at the entrances. Everywhere else basically just has a sign, which is the problem.

  94. Hmm no 100 plus dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait a moment that was a AR-15 and no 100+ deaths .. Hold the press they said it would kill 100 of people . that evil gun.

  95. Re:Those poor people by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

    What you don't remember the Chinese mass stabbing around the same time as a recent US school shooting? Many stabbed, none dead. Not the same as the US result.

    Plus, someone using bare hands to stab with a kitchen knife and no training, would likely end up with self-inflicted wounds. Getting blood on it from the first victim, making the handle slippery is common, then the second, without a guard (as few kitchen knives do), they will slip and cut their own hand wide open. It's common in stabbing perpetrators to have cut hands.

  96. Whatever by blackpaw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Another shooting in the USA ... yeah yeah whatever. I really don't care anymore. You guys shoot yourselves up and scream about the 2nd amendment to your hearts content, sure as the sun rises tommorrow there will be another shooting soon and you won't do shit to change it

    One thing for sure kiddies - it ain't news for nerds or stuff that matters, if it was, something constructive would be done. After all this time we have to conclude you idiots like it this way.

    1. Re:Whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *slow clap*

      I'm an American and I think you're completely correct. People want freedom to have ridiculous weapons readily available and then are surprised when somebody does something they don't like with them. Any government attempt to check a person's mental health before giving them a weapon is decried as the first steps toward a nightmare Orwell was incapable of imagining. Most Americans are so obsessed with their own accepted ideas about reality that they are closed to any other possibilities, so things just keep getting worse and worse.

      The real story here is about how pathetically stupid our country is for being shocked by this.

  97. Never waste a good crisis by Reliable+Windmill · · Score: 1

    Gov now has the reasons they need to impose even tighter security and restrictions on movement and personal freedom. How convenient!

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    Signature intentionally left blank.
  98. Re: damn by kbdd · · Score: 1
    I found my arguments and my conviction suffer when they have to backed up by facts.

    There would be little political discourse if facts were given consideration.

  99. Social issue, not guns by valnar · · Score: 0

    The problem in the USA is a social issue, not guns. There are many more asshats in the USA now than previous decades and something needs to be done about that. Other than the occasional random shooting, most of it is gang related and confined the liberal meccas of DC, Chicago, LA, NYC, Detroit, etc. The poor and uneducated are mostly to blame, so lets fix that. Personally, a law forbidding the idolization of gangstas (be it rap music, advertising or anything else) would go much farther to fix things.

    There was a period of time where kids in the rifle club took their guns on the school bus so they could go shooting after school. No big deal. Now making a gun out of your fingers and saying "pew pew" as kids play at recess gets you expelled. 'Seems this heavy handed approach isn't working. Big Brother approaches never do.

  100. Re:Those poor people by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    No, he was saying that certain actions have consequences, and you can't have the former without the latter.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  101. The secon amandment circular argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Americans go on and on about the second amandment and how guns are necessary for protection against the state.

    Sure. I might even buy that. Hell, I wouldn't actively opposive if they suddenly tried to make guns legal where I currently live (Europe).

    What baffles me is the fundamental attitude to gun rights in general. That is: From my personal observations (and entirely anecdotal) it seems that the people most likely to use guns to defend their rights are also the people least willing to defend any infringements on the constitution EXCEPT the second amandment, making their argument circular.

    I mean, are these people protesting the NSA? No...

    Are they protesting against the TSA? Nope.

    Are they protesting the bizarre American obscenity laws? Nopelinope.

    The NRA is a pretty strong defender of the second amandment. Where do they stand on NSA, TSA and obscenity legislation? Where do they stand on abortion and freedom of religion?

  102. yeah the right to bare arms is a realy good thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ban assault rifles and hand guns .... Simple
    "Oh but why penilise law abiding citizens....?"
    Even simpler change the law and they are no longer law abiding. ....

  103. Must be a mistake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clearly there must be a mistake in this story. Airports are "gun free" zones, therefore something like this CAN'T happen there right? It must all be a misunderstanding or it didn't really happen, cause clearly guns were banned in this area and criminals should respect the laws... ...or maybe, in reality, the argument that gun grabbers use (aka, ban them) clearly does not work, and criminals, by definition, ignore/break the laws, and by creating "gun free" zones, or banning guns, only effects actual law abiding citizens and not the criminals that are perpetrating these crimes.

    Notice that none of these gun killing spree's happen at a target shooting range, where everyone there has a gun. Nor do they happen at other events where the crowd can be reasonably assumed to be armed, or where the shooter might face someone else who is armed. Every mass shooting in the last several years, and probably further back than that, has happened in so call "gun free" zones.

    Columbine (school gun free zone)
    Virginia Tech (school gun free zone)
    Cathey Giffords (outsize federal building, gun free zone)
    Colorado (gun-free Theater)
    Ft. Hood (army base that is gun-free zone)
    Navy shipyard (navy base that is gun-free zone)
    Newtown, CT shooting (school gun free zone)
    LAX Airport (airport gun free zone).

    Clearly, you are more likely to get shot by a lunatic while in a "gun free" zone than you are at your local shooting range or other non gun-free zone.

  104. Snopes (for anyone who cares about the truth) by deanklear · · Score: 2

    http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

    In the specific case offered here, context is the most important factor. The piece quoted above leads the reader to believe that much of the Australian citizenry owned handguns until their ownership was made illegal and all firearms owned by "law-abiding citizens" were collected by the government through a buy-back program in 1997. This is not so. Australian citizens do not (and never did) have a constitutional right to own firearms even before the 1997 buyback program, handgun ownership in Australia was restricted to certain groups, such as those needing weapons for occupational reasons, members of approved sporting clubs, hunters, and collectors. Moreover, the 1997 buyback program did not take away all the guns owned by these groups; only some types of firearms (primarily semi-automatic and pump-action weapons) were banned. And even with the ban in effect, those who can demonstrate a legitimate need to possess prohibited categories of firearms can petition for exemptions from the law.

    Given this context, any claims based on statistics (even accurate ones) which posit a cause-and-effect relationship between the gun buyback program and increased crime rates because "criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed" are automatically suspect, since the average Australian citizen didn't own firearms even before the buyback. But beyond that, most of the statistics offered here are misleading and present only "first year results" where long-term trends need to be considered in order to draw valid cause-and-effect conclusions.

    For example, the first entry states that "Homicides are up 3.2%." This statistic is misleading because it reflects only the absolute number of homicides rather than the homicide rate. (A country with a rapidly-growing population, for example, might experience a higher number of crimes even while its overall crime rate decreased.) An examination of statistics from the Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) reveals that the overall homicide rate in Australia has changed little over the past decade and actually dipped slightly after the 1997 gun buy-back program. (The chart found at this link also demonstrates how easily statistics based on small sample sizes can mislead, as when the homicide rate in Tasmania increased nearly eight-fold in one year based on a single incident in which 35 people were killed.)

    Then we have the claim that "In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent." This is another example of how misleading statistics can be when the underlying numbers are not provided: Victoria, a state with a population of over four-and-a-half million people in 1997, experienced 7 firearm-related homicides in 1996 and 19 firearm-related homicides in 1997 (an increase of 171%, not 300%). An additional twelve homicides amongst a population of 4.5 million is not statistically significant, nor does this single-year statistic adequately reflect long-term trends. Moreover, the opening paragraph mixes two very different types of statistics number of homicides vs. percentage of homicides committed with firearms. In the latter case, it should be noted that the Australia-wide percentage of homicides committed with firearms is now lower than it was before the gun buy-back program, and lower than it has been at any point during the past ten years. (In the former case, the absolute number of firearm homicides in Australia in 1998-99 was the lowest in the past ten years.)

    Other claims offered here, such as the statement that "While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months" and "There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly" are even more difficult to evaluate, because they don't offer any figures or standards of measurement at all. Do they deal with absolute numbers, o

  105. Re:Those poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I could kill dozens of people in a few seconds with an assault rifle."

    No, you couldn't, and the fact you think you could shows your utter ignorance. Since I'm not a loon like you are, I'm going to talk paper targets. Let's say 2 dozen, perfectly still, sitting side by side.

    A typical magazine is 20-30 rounds - go much higher and welcome to jam-city. A few seconds doesn't leave you time to do a magazine change. You would therefore have to hit most targets with a single bullet. Since you are a real person and not the star of a Hollywood action movie it is impossible for you to fire ~20 accurate aimed shots in the 3-4 seconds you've allowed. You would need to fire in full-auto, where it is pretty much impossible to fire accurately. The army only uses full-auto for suppression. They took full-auto off the M16 deliberately because it was a useless waste of ammo.

    tl;dr you are arguing about something you do not understand, and are also a nigger.

  106. In Karachi, Pakistan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have like 5 or 6 levels of security checkpoints. Each is guarded by several guys armed with M16 (or M4?). Outside of the airport there is an army of more than several dozens, fully armed. Also the location is isolated from urban area, surrounded by plains of several miles wide and there are only a few roads leading to the airport itself - all of the roads have checkpoints in the middle, each are protected by iron bars, and stationed by at least 3-4 guys armed with M16 and bomb detector of some sort.

    It's perfect. If I have money I'd build my house to be like that.