Virgin Galactic Now Taking Bitcoin For Suborbital Flights

Nerval's Lobster writes "Bitcoin hype has reached orbit: you can now use the virtual currency to fly on Virgin Galactic, which will begin taking passengers on sub-orbital flights in 2014. 'One future astronaut, a female flight attendant from Hawaii, has already purchased her Virgin Galactic ticket using bitcoins,' Virgin CEO Richard Branson wrote in a blog posting on Virgin's Website, 'and we expect many more to follow in her footsteps. All of our future astronauts are pioneers in their own right, and this is one more way to be forward-thinking.' Branson is an investor in Bitcoin, which has seen its per-unit value skyrocket from $10 to $900 over the past two years (today, its value stands at $766, but that could rapidly change). 'The lack of transparency from Bitcoin's founders has attracted some criticism, but its open source nature means anyone can audit the code,' he added in his posting. 'It is a brilliantly conceived idea to allow users to power the peer-to-peer payment network themselves, providing control and freedom for consumers.' A flight aboard Virgin Galactic costs $250,000, or roughly 320 Bitcoin at today's price. However, Bitcoin is also a volatile currency, diving and spiking in response to a variety of factors—while it's certainly possible that its value could zoom above $1,000 in the near future, there's always the possibility it could crash down to a few hundred dollars, or even lower."

Comments

Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

I can use my fake currency to buy fake seats on a fake flight to space.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know... this currency where samples were handed out free a few years ago is doubling every few weeks. It has reached a price value where it is virtually impossible for it to lose relevance in today's trade market, with the bigwigs coming in and legitimizing it. I wouldn't be surprised if we remember these numbers below $1000 a coin as the good old days.

Re:Finally

[coldsalmon]

"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." -- John Maynard Keynes

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

It hurts a bit to look back to when I was mining and selling these things at $5 a pop... :P (but of course my wallet -does- still have some left..)

Re:Finally

[dj245]

t has reached a price value where it is virtually impossible for it to lose relevance in today's trade market, with the bigwigs coming in and legitimizing it.

What on earth does this mean? For me, the value is so unstable I don't want to use it as a temporary medium to buy anything. The value fluctuates so quickly that the transaction could very rapidly cost me 20% more or less than I initially thought. The more volatile a currency, the less I want to employ it as "money".

I love the arguments that "Bitcoin is a currency used for transactions, therefore it can't be a ponzi scheme". They fail to acknowledge the flipside of this- if it is too volatile to be useful for transactions, then it isn't a currency any more and has no value at all.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an awesome deal, depending on how you time it, the light could either cost you $5MM or $5.

Re:Finally

[dimeglio]

Indeed, if it's too volatile it can't be effective in transactions. That being said, it's still in infancy and stability comes with time. As more people trust it, it will tend to fluctuate less.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

The more volatile a currency, the less I want to employ it as "money".

But on the flip side, the more volatile it is, the MORE you or others might want to speculate with it... which explains this irrational bubble.

Re:Finally

[chopper749]

No no no.. You've got it all wrong. You're not supposed to read past the headline. According to the headline, they only take your Bitcoin into space. You don't get to go with them (it?). Bitcoins are very light and don't take up very much cargo space.

Re:Finally

[tftp]

As more people trust it, it will tend to fluctuate less.

I would say fewer and fewer people will be trusting BTC over time. The first wave of enthusiasts came and went. Some of them are sitting on serious supplies of BTC in their wallets. There is nothing left, profit-wise, for the later mass of customers to be enticed with. A common man cannot do mining; the currency requires complex software and a lot of time to catch up; transactions are not free (if you want them to complete); there is no central authority who can clearly and without doubt tell Aunt Jane that her money have arrived, or why it hasn't arrived yet, and where it is (banks can do that.) On top of that, BTC is not directly accepted in most places; this means that you have to buy and sell currency all the time, enriching moneychangers. Theft of BTC is possible by many *new* methods. Why would then anyone need all this PITA at this time? Do we not have enough of currencies already that are in wide use?

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

FTA while it's certainly possible that its value could zoom above $1,000 in the near future, there's always the possibility it could crash down to a few hundred dollars, or even lower."

-yeah, use gold instead!

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

/. learns nothing from error. As usual. ...we MUST double down! We were right, dammit!

It's sigh-making how inevitable and predictable the threads on bitcoin are.

Fair disclosure: I first found out about bitcoin on /. Two weeks after reading the March (?) 2011 story, I had my first miner up.

So thank you /. I'm sorry you still don't get it. But thank you for showing me, anyway.

Re:Finally

[lister king of smeg]

transactions are not free (if you want them to complete);

guess what when you use a debit/credit card there is a transaction fee too. Also the fee is on average about 0.0001 BTC or currently 8 cents

there is no central authority who can clearly and without doubt tell Aunt Jane that her money have arrived, or why it hasn't arrived yet, and where it is (banks can do that.)

You mean other than the public ledger called a block chain that is the basic foundation of the bitcoin protocol?

On top of that, BTC is not directly accepted in most places; this means that you have to buy and sell currency all the time, enriching moneychangers. Theft of BTC is possible by many *new* methods. Why would then anyone need all this PITA at this time? Do we not have enough of currencies already that are in wide use?

And the number of places accepting bitcoins is growing with the interest and knowledge of it, this is a problem that will solve itself.

Re:Finally

[tftp]

guess what when you use a debit/credit card there is a transaction fee too. Also the fee is on average about 0.0001 BTC or currently 8 cents

How much will that fee be, in percentage, if I want to send you 50 cents? As BTC becomes more and more expensive, this fee will be also more and more important. Besides, why should I pay 8 cents from a purchase of a sandwich to someone I do not know? A cheeseburger costs $1.29; those 8 cents represent 6.2% - who in his right mind will want to overpay 6% just for the privilege of paying? I can pay with cash and avoid the fee altogether; or I can pay the same money with a card.

By the way, the card fee is built into the price already. If you want to pay cash, you simply pay more to the seller. Hardly any seller offers cash discount. BTC fees will be also part of the price; but, unlike card network fees, they are not a payment for a service - they are a royalty for using some fraction of the block that a miner produced.

You mean other than the public ledger called a block chain that is the basic foundation of the bitcoin protocol?

Yes. Aunt Jane is not likely to figure out how blockchain works, and there is nobody with authority who could explain that to her. More importantly, there is no arbitration. Today banks are doing arbitration in disputes that involve card payments and transfers. BTC is nothing but cash - and it has as little protection as cash has.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

"with the bigwigs coming in and legitimizing it"
All the more reason to be skeptical of it then imo.
Seems like a useful way to do business but ultimately (whether scarcity is built in or not) bitcoins have no intrinsic value, same as paper money. They are a duct tape solution for the larger critical problems of our paper money. In fact, it's arguable that fixing a leaking toxic pipe with duct tape is just postponing the inevitable. Our system is still broken as long as we trade in debt (paper money) or trust in intangible, worthless things (bit coin)

As for the arguments about the legitimacy of bitcoins:
Arguments:
1. It's decentralised.

No it isn't. Because it depends completely on the internet. The internet is highly centralised, and becoming more so, not less.

2. It's secure.

No it isn't. Bitcoin hoarders have been routinely pillaged. The internet is highly vulnerable. Heard of PRISM??
3. Easy of use

Not so easy when you have no internet, or indeed any meaningful democratic control of it - you don't.
It's not accepted for anything of importance that you actually need in day to day life.

4.Has scarcity.
Not in the Austrian economic sense. When Austrian economic proponents talk about the qualities of the free market, they would take the internet as not being a free open market - not these days. It's not viable to be scarce in the first place. And scarcity of nothing is nothing. It isn't worth anything.

I still recommend keeping some of them if you want to prevail because the world is insane and if you want to continue to surf this crazy wave of ignorance, then you need to operate in that reality, and bitcoin is growing...

Makes sense

[hammeraxe]

Well, that kind of makes sense since both Virgin Galactic and Bitcoin are something akin to vapour-ware... Full of promises but nothing substantial yet.

Re:Makes sense

[Hatta]

Here's another way you can get really high with Bitcoin.

Interesting

[Cro Magnon]

I can fly into orbit with bitcoin, but I still can't buy a hotdog. :-P

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

I can fly into orbit with bitcoin, but I still can't buy a hotdog. :-P

Actually, you can buy a hotdog and just about anything else.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=321800.0

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you expect? Bitcoins are only for the super elite.
Always keeping the small man down!

Re: Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks Obama!

Re:Interesting

[tftp]

Imagine that three years ago you bought a hotdog for 1 BTC. How would you feel about that today?

The only wise thing you can do with BTC is hold it.

Re:Interesting

[Time_Ngler]

Imagine not investing in bitcoin 3 years ago. How would you feel about that today?

Sorry, but the whole argument that it is unwise to purchase things in bitcoin is missing the point. It was and unwise to not invest a portion of your savings into bitcoin, and this may still be true. I know, "Heresy! Bitcoin is not real! It will never succeed" and all that. The contrarian viewpoint would see this sentiment as an indicator to its future growth. Of course, do your own DD and decide whether you think Bitcoin can really succeed as money, but also view the loud braying of the naysayers as further reason to invest if you have not done so already.

Re:Interesting

[tftp]

The catch is that 99.999% of people on this planet never had a chance to invest into BTC. They will not want to participate in the economy that is dominated by a few early adopters; they will not want to fight for scraps; they will not want to work for weeks and months to buy a coin that Satoshi et al. generated in milliseconds.

The BTC economy was always centered about spending the coins. Deflation was always far away, at least in the minds of pioneers. It was true when nobody needed the coins, but everyone could make a few just for fun. But in last few years, as the BTC market increased, deflation turned into a crushing problem, making spending of BTC into a foolish act.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I agree I hold onto my imagination too. I like fantasy!!

corepirate nazi hypenosys talknicians pr clones

[Anonymous Coward]

overwhelming a rather mundane social media atmostfear

saw it on yahoo

Pay with Stamps!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm paying for my trip in U.S. "Forever" stamps that I bought 5 years ago. Beat that.

One of these is an imaginary concept...

[Anonymous Coward]

...the other is Bitcoin.

weapons grade idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, this is weapons grade idiocy, truly epic.

http://globalgrind.com/2013/11/21/all-the-fake-democrats-please-take-a-seat-by-russell-simmons-blog/
millions of lives
"Yes, we initially wanted single payer, and we had to compromise back in 2009 for the Affordable Care Act. But, it is a damn good piece of legislation that has already saved hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives." Didja catch that peeps? "millions of lives" indeed.

First of all, I truly don't know who this idiot is, I assume he is some brain damaged rap artist or something like that.

"hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives"

This is what Democrats really think. Facts have no relevance or meaning in their lives. They *want* millions to be saved by Obama, and that's all that is really needed, the *fact* that they want it to happen is in itself an end. They want to do good, they say they are doing good, good, therefore must be happening.

In many ways it is the public school system, teachers unions and the media that is responsible for this. This nonsense cannot happen if we have an intelligent capable and moral citizenry; we clearly do not.

Oh and it get's better;

"I know where Republicans stand. They have voted 47 times to repeal the Affordable Care Act, so their stance is clear. If you get sick, you’re on your own. If you can’t pay for your medical expenses, declare bankruptcy. If you have a pre-existing condition, they’ll send you a get well card when you’re on your death-bed."

All of these things are lies. Lies that cannot be substiantiated in any way - but that doesn't matter because no one will call him on this dishonesty - no one will hold this man, or any of them to account. Republicans are the go to bad guys, the Reapers of Firefly, the Indians of your cowboys-n-indians movies, the Jews of Nazi Gernamy, the Kulaks of the USSR. You have to have a class of bad-guys to blame and distract the masses with so they do not focus their attention on the truly evil ones, the directors of this madness. The Democrats.

If you haven't read We The Living by Ayn Rand I strongly suggest it - it's a short read and worth your time. Gwan people, think outside the box for once, don't take your dogma to be gospel, challenge the authorities for a change! Think for yourself. Note I am not suggesting you blindly follow my thinking, I am honestly telling you to do your own homework, make your own decisions, challenge your own assumptions! "Question Authority" used to be the anti-establishment meme of the truly hip and cool crowd was it not? What happened to you people?

Because I can tell you for a fucking fact, Obamacare hasn't saved no millions of lives, you can be dammned sure of that. So think people, use the brains god gave you and go and find out how many lives the lightbringer has in fact saved. You will be surprised.

Re:weapons grade idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

And the lifes that are saved are probably people who are not contributing to society and thus it is a net negative. In a worthy free-market system, the productive societal elements will have the resources to purchase their own healthcare and thus continue on. It's an offshoot of Darwinian evoltionary theory and it works in nature and it works in our country, if given a chance and not artificially tampered with.

Re:weapons grade idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

What's more, and no doubt is completely beyond the capacity of this Russell Simmons to understand, as one can hardly believe this chap has any understanding of history or economics in any real sense, is this;

Statism, under it's various forms (socialism, communism, fascism, whatever) is a *real* cause of death in numbers that just leave you feeling ill. Don't take my word for it, go look it up if you need to - you shouldn't have to of course if you went to high school, but the information is out there. We don't need to talk about hard numbers as there are so many discussions of this all over the history books and various web sites and suchlike. If yoiu want numbers go find them.

No political ideology has killed more people than statism; period. You can talk all you want about religeon and the like, whatever. That isn't the point.

Statism (socialism, communism, whatever you want to call it) always evolves into a tryanny and most often a dictatorial one, where the killing of anyone and everyone who disagrees with the state is the order of the day. This is an un-deniable-fact.

Now I am not saying Obama is a Nazi and wants to kill Jews - or even that we are heading that direction, not in the slightest. I am not comparing todays Democrats to Nazis, do not get me wrong.

But to see something so completely and totally disconnected from reality as some hollywood idiot praising Obama the lightbringer for "legislation that has already saved hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives" based on nothing but a drug induced vision or dream without understanding the reality of what statism really is, is unforgivable. You all know what Santayana said of course? Do you? Actually I wonder about a lot of you and will leave this one up to the reader to research.

Statism has a track record, there are bodies stacked up and hidden away and this is fact not wishful thinking. FACT people, evidence, history, this is a *real* thing and means something more than HOPE CHANGE whateverthefuck.

And these idiots can't trouble themselves to learn even the slightest bit of actual history, to speak about things from a position of knoweledge and wisdom and they just start speaking of the Hope and Change that Obama the boy-king wants to bring, to heal the sick, to lower the level of the oceans, to feed and clothe the hungry; and all these things are nothing but wishful thinking, pipe dreams, drug addled daydreams, and to them this is the important thing, more real than reality. Obama! Hey Hey Hey, Barack Hussein Obama!

And yet the Barky Ofuckface got elected not once but TWICE.

We are fucked.

Re:weapons grade idiocy

[deviated_prevert]

WHOEVER the hell you are congratulations for spamming Slashdot so effectively. Hint: you are being modded into oblivion so perhaps I will feed you as obviously your disruptive posts are being monitored by the NSA under orders from the Whitehouse

Perhaps in a few decades "Obamacare" can be saved with a health tax on the exchange of currency for Bitcoins. But only if enough eager rich people keep dumping their USDs into them to deliberately devalue the dollar. Either that or invade the Cayman Islands and Belize to get back all the capital going there.

I just wonder how much currency is being exchanged for Bitcoins and what will happen when someone who has horded it does a strategic cash out for goods when it becomes possible to exchange it for gold? Using bitcoins to go up for a short peek at the curvature of the earth seems positively productive, so I doubt that many of today's modern day Goldfinger extortion bandits will make the trip.

Letting the existing insurance companies control the individual policies was somewhat akin to locking the fox in the hen house and those foxes are not exactly going to work for chicken feed. It is blatantly obvious that public health care in the United States is doomed. Everyone sing along with me:

Buy buy karma

GOODBUY

Buy buy karma

GOODBUY

Buy buy karma

GOODBUY

Re:weapons grade idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

"And the lifes that are saved are probably people who are not contributing to society and thus it is a net negative."

Good grief. Put down the bong, your mother is calling you.

just awaiting delivery of lemon-soaked napkins

[Thud457]

Bah.

Will they honor Pan Am tickets?

Economist's resource

[Okian Warrior]

For those armchair economists here who haven't read anything about Bitcoin, but know what it's all about because they're, like, economists, I present this link:

Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction.

Reading this might prevent your post from getting a response that makes you seem ignorant, if you care about that sort of thing.

(Such posts as: "it's a Ponzi scheme", "it can't work because it's not based on anything", "it's only for illegal commerce", "it's got some sort of technical flaw", or "the authorities will try to stop it, and that's important".)

Re:Economist's resource

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL - that article is full of propaganda.

I wish I was the guy that came up with this pyramid scheme, I'd be liquidating by bitcoins and enjoying my mansion in Hawaii.

Re:Economist's resource

[jythie]

So read this armchair economist instead.....

Actually, it is not a bad introduction, though it does presupposed libertarianism, which is more of a philosophical construct then an economic one in this day and age.

Re:Economist's resource

[Anonymous Coward]

Once anyone says it's not a Pnozi scheme, I know they are a fucking idiot and not worth another second.

Re:Economist's resource

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you should read your link again:

As resilient as the system has proven to be, it is still new. The value of a Bitcoin could drop to zero tomorrow. This means under no circumstances should people invest money in Bitcoin which they cannot afford to lose. Bitcoin is a highly volatile commodity with an extremely uncertain future.

And that's putting it mildly.

Re:Economist's resource

[fatphil]

It's hard to take seriously, it's a swiss cheese of an article.

I like this sentence, due to the wonderful (il)logic it performs:

"Inflation ...

currenly very negative

"... is thus pre-determined ...

that's nice to know, in that case you'll be able to tell me exactly how much a dollar will be worth at any arbitrary point in the future?

"... and ever-decreasing ...

Holy fucking shit, that's gonna get scary negative.

"... toward zero."

So it's gonna wrap around minus infinity and become positive again, so that it can continue its ever-decreasing behaviour?

Curiously, were that to actually happen, there are some interesting side effects. At the point it becomes minus infinity, bitcoins will be the only things of any value in the whole of the world. Everything else effectively becomes either worthless or free, depending on your point of view. Even sovereign teritory loses its value, compared to the literally almighty bitcoin. At that point, the world might fraction into two factions - those with bitcoins, and those without. Those with bitcoins, being rational agents, will be unable or unwilling to exchange them for anything, as nothing else has any value. Those without bitcoins would then be free to continue trading and bartering everything apart from bitcoins with each other. I.e. those with bitcoins become unable to buy anything, and those without bitcoins are able to buy things - the exact opposite of what you might expect.

Fun things happen when you start with false premises and make deductions from them. And those premises come from sources like that blog.

Re:Economist's resource

[fatphil]

Ug, and the "Bitcoin vs. The State" section is the most pitifully naive write-up of anything I've ever seen primary school. It's about as well reasoned as a "from my cold dead hands" argument. Using some of the logic presented in that section, there's nothing the government can do to regulate, and by that I mean outlaw, barter, and yet as we've seen in the real world, not on planet loonie-idealist-libertarian, they can do just that.

Re:Economist's resource

[sg_oneill]

Considering it confuses inflation for deflation (hint: Bit coins are deflationary, goods cost less and less over time, so far, in otherwords, its an economy with programmed recession) leads me to think that perhaps this isn't actually a particularly competent guide.

Tada! The Prestige!

[Okian Warrior]

LOL - that article is full of propaganda.

I wish I was the guy that came up with this pyramid scheme, I'd be liquidating by bitcoins and enjoying my mansion in Hawaii.

And... voila!

The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn't clap yet. Because making something disappear isn't enough; you have to bring it back. That's why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part we call "The Prestige".

Re:Tada! The Prestige!

[DogDude]

Yes, most Bitcoins advocates' knowledge about economics, as evidenced by your link, is about as in depth as someone who watched a 90 minute Hollywood movie about it.

Bitcoin is silly, and it's not worth any more of my time to explain why.

The chart showing that most Bitcoin activity is coming from ex-Soviet countries was interesting, though. Some people never learn.

Re:Tada! The Prestige!

[Anonymous Coward]

There are 2 other Bitcoin apologists besides you slithering around here. Ornia and Triclipse. One thing is for certain. When Nerdcoin inevitably implodes, idiots like you will be totally silent on the issues, having lost a tremendous amount of face. But don't count on people like me forgetting. When the Shitcoin bubble pops, better get yourself a new Slashdot ID.

Volatility

[Anonymous Coward]

>However, Bitcoin is also a volatile currency, diving and spiking in response to a variety of factors—while it's certainly possible that its value could zoom >above $1,000 in the near future, there's always the possibility it could crash down to a few hundred dollars, or even lower."

This is why I no longer use BitCoin. I can't trust that it's still worth what I paid for it even if I finish the whole buy/sell transactions in half an hour.

Econtalk podcast is better

[Danathar]

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2011/04/andresen_on_bit.html

Time to sell

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, so we have two Bitcoin stories on Slashdot in a single day. That's my personal indicator that the current Bitcoin bubble has peaked. It's been a good ride, thanks for all the money, suckers.

Paedophiles, Terrorists, Drug-Dealers and Hit Men

[turgid]

There must be a lot of them about with enough spare cash to want to take a trip into space.

What is Branson thinking?

Re:Paedophiles, Terrorists, Drug-Dealers and Hit M

[femtobyte]

That providing luxury services to the wealthy top echelons of organized crime is a fine way to make money, little different from providing luxury services to the top echelons of "legit" oligarchs who have bothered to bribe enough governments to make their crimes against humanity legal on paper?

Re:Paedophiles, Terrorists, Drug-Dealers and Hit M

[turgid]

I suppose there's no such thing as bad publicity?

Re:Paedophiles, Terrorists, Drug-Dealers and Hit M

[coniferous]

>That providing luxury services to the wealthy top echelons of organized crime Yeah, because the us banking industry is sooo much less scummy.

Re:Paedophiles, Terrorists, Drug-Dealers and Hit M

[femtobyte]

That was my point, about "oligarchs that bribe governments." The Chase Bank executives handling billions of dollars of money laundering for drug cartels (at the risk of a slap-on-the-wrist fine and zero chance of jail) will get to play Astronaut right alongside their mafia drug lord buddies, perhaps with some Big Tobacco murder executives thrown into the mix to round things out.

Return of the 1970s pyramid games

[msblack]

BitCoins remind me of those 1970s pyramid parties. At some point, the price will fall out and over half the people will lose nearly their entire investment. Why dally in a virtual currency unless you want to take advantage of others?

Virgin CEO Richard Branson

[Anonymous Coward]

  Virgin CEO Richard Branson wrote in a blog...

I want to be a CEO, though it never occurred to me a CEO would have trouble getting laid. So what do I do now?

Re:Virgin CEO Richard Branson

[fisted]

Considering you don't get laid either way, I'd say go for the CEO.

"investing" in bitcoin

[goombah99]

I'm "investing" in dollars but I don't call myself an investor. If you want to call bit coin an "investment" then you are treating it as a commodity with a futures market or a speculation on rising prices like gold. Which means it is definitley not a currency, whose halmark is stable value. Bit coin is not currency till people stop saying they invested or speculated on it's value.

Re:"investing" in bitcoin

[Anonymous Coward]

"Commodity money is money whose value comes from a commodity of which it is made. Commodity money consists of objects that have value in themselves as well as value in their use as money." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_money

What is the "value in itself" of Bitcoin? Its value comes from being a mechanically good currency (the best that's ever been). Sounds circular but it isn't.

The fluctuations in value come from price discovery (nobody knows what its real value is yet, but some guesses can be made given that (e.g.) Twitter is worth $30B) and speculation by naive investors. When more big players enter the trading market, the price will fluctuate less.

Old Chinese Saying

[Okian Warrior]

There are 2 other Bitcoin apologists besides you slithering around here. Ornia and Triclipse. One thing is for certain. When Nerdcoin inevitably implodes, idiots like you will be totally silent on the issues, having lost a tremendous amount of face. But don't count on people like me forgetting. When the Shitcoin bubble pops, better get yourself a new Slashdot ID.

Old Chinese saying: "If you wait by the river long enough, eventually you will see the body of your enemy float by."

Your position requires that you sit back and wait. That's fine from my point of view, but a different course of action might yield better results from your point of view: take a chance!

BitCoin might very well implode, and when it does I'll happily admit that I was wrong. There's nothing bad about that.

At the moment, the issue is why will it explode?

We can read all the economics textbooks and papers in the world and have a deep understanding of the issues, but unless we can make predictions the information is useless. Justifying and rationalizing historical incidents is a complete waste of time unless you can apply the lessons to future situations.

I've seen no argument against BitCoin that holds up to the merest cursory level of scrutiny, and there are enough historical parallels to indicate that it will be wildly successful. (Of specific note, the ubiquitous use of non-standard currency in revolutionary times for contraband. Ever wonder why our monetary system is based on the 'dollare and 'centavo instead of the pound and pence?)

Is that all of economics? Are you only able to see and explain the past, or are you able to predict the future?

I'm taking a stand. BitCoin has no logical flaws, and will rise in popularity simply because it has better utility and fewer disadvantages.

You think it will implode. What's your reasoning?

Re:Old Chinese Saying

[Anonymous Coward]

Why did Myspace or Digg implode?
Why did Napster and Kazaa implode?
Why do internet communities flock to specific corners of the web then migrate enmass to others?

Take your stand, it's good to put your money where your mouth is. But don't be surprised when Bitcoin's two major technical flaws, massive block chain size and constantly increasing time to complete a transaction, finally catches up to it. The more bitcoin transactions, the larger the blockchain grows and the more drive space it costs you. The more people adopt bitcoin the faster it will become bloated to the point of usability. This is a technological fact that every supporter ignores, generally assuming that technological advances will make the costs bearable.

Take for example, a terabyte size block chain won't matter when hard drives are hundreds of terabytes large and everyone has a personal supercomputer with 10x gigabit internet bandwidth. Sure, in such a utopia bitcoin might thrive, but that's still at least a decade off and frankly I don't think bitcoin users will suffer the volatility swings that long as better options come into existence.

In 10 years bitcoin will be seen the way an AOL dialup connection is viewed today, primitive and outdated, though there will likely still be a handful of dialup users left even then. Though much money will be made from trading them in the mean time, they will become worthless soon enough. Just don't get left holding the bitcoin bag. Bitcoin will follow egold back into the land of obscure underground internet currency from whence it came.

Holy shit, batman!

[Okian Warrior]

...don't be surprised when Bitcoin's two major technical flaws, massive block chain size and constantly increasing time to complete a transaction, finally catches up to it. The more bitcoin transactions, the larger the blockchain grows and the more drive space it costs you. The more people adopt bitcoin the faster it will become bloated to the point of usability.

Wow! A cogent, reasoned response, easily destroyed by a quick google search.

Apparently you can only win arguments against people who can't google. How's that working out for you?

In 10 years bitcoin will be seen the way an AOL dialup connection is viewed today, primitive and outdated, though there will likely still be a handful of dialup users left even then. Though much money will be made from trading them in the mean time, they will become worthless soon enough.

A bold statement. What's your reasoning? Because, like, your emotional energy isn't convincing me.

Re:Holy shit, batman!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! A cogent, reasoned response, easily destroyed by a quick google search [bitcoin.it].

Apparently you can only win arguments against people who can't google. How's that working out for you?

Wow, ad hominem, the telltale that a person knows they've lost the argument. By the way, you might want to find a source that is not pro-bitcoin to support your claim. It comes off as biased and unreliable. Admitting that you only know "a quick google search" worth of information on the topic you're speaking about isn't a winning strategy either.

A bold statement. What's your reasoning? Because, like, your emotional energy isn't convincing me.

Not really bold and your quotation itself contained the reasoning. I'll spell it out for you: as technology improves, even the best current technology becomes obsolete. And bitcoin is far from "the best".

Bitcoin has use as a currency, but it is first and foremost technology. Alternatives to bitcoin already exist, for example Litecoin is a definitively better implementation of the underlying technology with significantly faster transaction speed. The trade off being the block chain will grow larger faster and hashes are significantly more complex.

Now combine all of the above with the fact that bitcoin is first generation technology. Name me a single "first gen" piece of tech that was better than the subsequent generations. Lot of people out there clinging to their original iPods? Saying "Hell no I don't want that iPhone5s"? I don't think so, and I don't think they'll cling to their devalued bitcoins once the internet hivemind moves onto a new fad that's not even been invented yet.

Call it emotional if you want, but ten years down the road I just don't see a lot of people wanting to cling to archaic technology like bitcoin. It will go the way of Lycos, Aol, and egold. Such is the demonstrated way of the internet.

Re:Holy shit, batman!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your citation on bitcoin scalability ignores the problem raised.

The block chain is already encroaching on 12GB and is demonstrating exponential growth potential.

That's a huge problem! When you extrapolate out 10 years that becomes about 4,500 TB.

Source: From link above I used 360MB from Sept-2011 and 9.5GB from Sept-2013 and came up with a growth rate of 1.63647152
I took that and applied it to a 10 year span.

Admittedly this is pretty simplistic modeling but it serves to prove the point that the block chain will rapidly become a massive burden to store, forcing people to either invest in personal data centers or to use bitcoin "banks" such as the ones we frequently hear about shutting down and taking the bitcoins with them.

The facts are that bitcoin will fail, it is a technological and mathematical certainty unless we see some massive gains in low-cost storage and processing technology within the next few years.

Re:Holy shit, batman!

[__1200333]

Interesting discussion save the bickering :-)

as technology improves, even the best current technology becomes obsolete

Bitcoin is a protocol, not a product or technology. I would compare bitcoin to HTTP or bittorrent. Look at the success of the web, which is based on a protocol that has seen minor (and mostly backwards compatible) changes over the years. Nobody could have predicted exactly what the web browser experience is in 2013. Once a protocol gains enough user and developer momentum it is hard to throw it away. In my opinion, bitcoin has a good shot.

The fact is that bitcoin is a protocol with lots of flexibility baked in which will allow it to grow and expand as needed. Fundamentally unlike an iPhone or AOL or Myspace or specific company X.

Price

[manu0601]

How is virgin galactic going to handle bitcoin volatility? What happens if they give me a quote, and bitcoin value gets slashed before I pay?

Re:Price

[DanielRavenNest]

Branson immediately converts the ticket sale to local currency (dollars or pounds, whichever they use). That way they can provide a refund if the buyer decides they don't really want to go into space. I don't know if Virgin Galactic is using a payment processor like BitPay or Coinbase, but those companies accept bitcoin on behalf of merchants, convert to local currency, and deposit that to your bank account daily. The exchange rate gets updated in real time, like you can see on this site:

https://coinbase.com/merchants

ad hominem was required

[Okian Warrior]

Wow, ad hominem, the telltale that a person knows they've lost the argument.

It took an ad hominem attack to wake you up, to get you to think through the issues and post a well-thought-out position that isn't facially ludicrous.

You have a good point (finally!), which you should have posted in the 1st response above. Keep it in mind, and post it the next time BitCoin comes up.

I like teasing trolls, but waking one up is an unexpected delight - like finding a $20 bill on the ground. I look forward to the next debate.

Re:ad hominem was required

[Anonymous Coward]

You might want to consider a book on humility because you really come off as a pompous ass. You lost this argument hands down yet you parade about condescending me as if you had won something. Let me assure you that you have not.

Be that as it may, I do thank you for complementing and subsequently ceding to my point that bitcoin is a technologically doomed first generation product.

Incidentally as a seeming bitcoin proponent you should have taken the opportunity to reference finding a bitcoin on the ground, not $20. But that's a major part of bitcoin's problem even if the technological issues were solved; not even supporters such as yourself see it as real money outside of the usual rhetoric.

Whether it crashes is irrelevant

[wasabu]

It's the idea that matters and it has already been unleashed. Central banking is the bane of everyone's existence whether they realise it or not. Cryptocurrencies will turn central banking literally upside down and with that, a redistribution of economic power. The Chinese can't believe their fortune. The enemy has embraced the technology that will dissolve the very ground he stands on!

Full block chain

[DrYak]

Your citation on bitcoin scalability ignores the problem raised. The block chain is already encroaching on 12GB and is demonstrating exponential growth potential. That's a huge problem! When you extrapolate out 10 years that becomes about 4,500 TB.

xkcd-jokes about extrapolation aside, there a second reason not to over-react about this:
- as the source citation mentions, full blockchain isn't needed to securely work with bitcoins.
They are important for archival.
But a "pruned" data set is suffisent to provide a secure node.
And not every single user needs to run a whole secure node on his/her smartphone.
Contacting a trusted node is suffisent. (Same as e-mail: Not every single user needs to run a full blown mail server, nor even a full IMAP/SMTP client. Most people simple use a webmail)
- 4TB, on a server or workstation is pretty cheap and common *TODAY*. Building a cheap server holding a full archive of the whole chain will still be possible for a long time.
- Also remember: You won't need a full backup solution for your server holding the block chain, because it is *distributed*. If you lose a server, you just re-download the chain from the network. (The same that you probably won't backup a bittorrent seeding node. Just backup the torrent/magnets, and pull the actual data out of the network).