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Obama Praises NSA But Promises To Rein It In
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Josh Gerstein writes on Politico that President Barack Obama told Chris Matthews in an interview recorded for MSNBC's 'Hardball' that he'll be reining in some of the snooping conducted by the NSA, but he did not detail what new limits he plans to impose on the embattled spy organization. 'I'll be proposing some self-restraint on the NSA. And...to initiate some reforms that can give people more confidence,' said the President who insisted that the NSA's work shows respect for the rights of Americans, while conceding that its activities are often more intrusive when it comes to foreigners communicating overseas. 'The NSA actually does a very good job about not engaging in domestic surveillance, not reading people's emails, not listening to the contents of their phone calls. Outside of our borders, the NSA's more aggressive. It's not constrained by laws.' During the program, Matthews raised the surveillance issue by noting a Washington Post report on NSA gathering of location data on billion of cell phones overseas. 'Young people, rightly, are sensitive to the needs to preserve their privacy and to retain internet freedom. And by the way, so am I,' responded the President. 'That's part of not just our First Amendment rights and expectations in this country, but it's particularly something that young people care about, because they spend so much time texting and-- you know, Instagramming.' With some at the NSA feeling hung out to dry by the president, Obama also went out of his way to praise the agency's personnel for their discretion. 'I want to everybody to be clear: the people at the NSA, generally, are looking out for the safety of the American people. They are not interested in reading your emails. They're not interested in reading your text messages. And that's not something that's done. And we've got a big system of checks and balances, including the courts and Congress, who have the capacity to prevent that from happening.'"
Vote Ron Paul and squash the NSA, the Fed, and all these stupid agencies that seek to turn our world into 1984 (which some people seem to take it like it was a documentary).
Aka, tying the cat to the bacon. Clearly self-regulation is the way to go, after all it worked wonders for the financial sector.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
...but one day they might decide they are, and there is nothing in place to stop them from doing that. Does President Obama really not understand why people are outraged? And no, you don't really have a system of checks and balances- you have the illusion that you do. What happens when people in the NSA does something wrong/unconstitutional? Do they get fired? Arrested? I didn't think so.
...when he starts out by saying that the NSA spying on US Citizens is all reasonable and proper, since they don't actually read your emails or listen to your phone calls.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
And we've got a big system of checks and balances, including the courts and Congress, who have the capacity to prevent that from happening.'"
Because that's working wonderfully, isn't it?
How is the NSA not restrained by law when operating outside the USA? Does this mean that there are no laws outside the USA? Does this mean I can finally kill anyone I want without repercussions, because I don't live in the USA? Europe, fuck yeah!
they all play it safe by making this country less free in order to ensure no terrorist attack of any kind is does not happen on their watch. Maybe we all are to blame since we the people do not want to pay for the price of freedom which is a little risk.
"Poor poor widdle NSA. There there. You can't play with all your toys anymore, but gold star for you!"
They are not interested in reading your emails. They're not interested in reading your text messages. And that's not something that's done.
More misdirection. Of course they aren't interested in those things, they want the more valuable location data and other metadata so they can build huge tracking database and SNR graphs.
So this medicine show is what they kicked a bunch of little kids out of their rehearsal space for? Well, I guess it is a sort of song and dance routine.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/chris-matthews-ballerinas_n_4392440.html
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
...something both Demublicans and Repocrats may decry in public but can't resist using once in power.
In that respect Obama is Bush III.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Obama voted for the snooping even before he was president!
And then he himself decided to extend the law!
Come on, how stupid does he think we all are?
'Young people, rightly, are sensitive to the needs to preserve their privacy and to retain internet freedom. And by the way, so am I,' responded the President. 'That's part of not just our First Amendment rights and expectations in this country, but it's particularly something that young people care about..
This is a former constitutional lawyer saying that privacy concerns are a First Amendment concern. WT-actual-F? This is clearly Fourth amendment territory, but oh well. I mean, this is the president after all: we don't need facts when we have authority.
Also, the suggestion that this issue is all the more vital because young people care about it? What smarmy nonsense. It's a bloody constitutional crisis being characterized as an MTV award.
Don't forget the NSA likes to keep data around for a long time. So if in a few years, a friend of a friend joins an organization that has a similar name to a suspected terrorist organization, the NSA can go back and look at what you were saying now to try to incriminate you.
"1. The things that the NSA does are proper and justified.
2. We will strive to reduce the improper and unjustified things* the NSA does."
*Nothing
He is (of course) right that they're not spying "directly" on the American people, with an actual human being reading your emails, recording your online activities, and tracking your physical movements. But that's just a clever strawman. The goal is not to "watch" you (as your nosey neighbor does) -- the goal is to record you (as a computer would). The ultimate objective is to build a permanent profile on each and every citizen, so that IF and WHEN they have the political motive to prosecute you, all they have to do is press a few buttons, review your history, and select from any one of the thousands of laws available to prosecute you -- most of which are victimless crimes (crimes against the state), not crimes against other individuals.
1. Always remember who writes your checks.
2. Keep the bribes you get from all sides roughly balanced.
How belittling it is to couple one of our most essential rights with the phrase "texting and-- you know, Instagramming". No, Mr. Obama, that is not why we want our privacy. We want our privacy because it was guaranteed to us. Any reason other than that is more reason than you deserve. I want my privacy because I have a RIGHT to privacy. End of discussion. It's appalling to see how this presidency completely obliterated some of our most important constructs: separation of powers, federalism, inalienable rights, etc. Barack ran a campaign on transparency. His administration has been the least transparent in decades. The Obama administration has prosecuted more whistle blowers then all other administrations combined. He promised to close Guantanamo, claiming that "going around laws" was just as bad as breaking them. Yet, he defends dragnet surveillance because it was done "outside our borders". Self-restraint. You have to be kidding me. This is literally infuriating.
Let me just say that I'm not exactly wretched with guilt over not respecting the IP of US companies, seeing as my data apparently is fair game to the US.
The kind where I can keep my insurance plan or doctor? The kind where this administation will be transparent? Maybe the kind where gitmo is closed? The kind where ACA saves me money instead of raising my rates 200%? Huh, I guess there's really only one kind after all.
A tool
I thought the Constitution applied to *people*, but apparently it applies to *American people* and only then if they find out about the Constitutional violations.
And I thought we had a democracy in Europe, but somehow, the last decade, they don't seem to be working for the voters. Really bizarre behaviour, with leaders trying to cover up a foreign country spying on its people. For example Barosso handed the US all our SWIFT bank transaction data for nothing in return, it was weird, like he was a spy working on the inside.
Now I find that the NSA has got all this surveillance data on our politicos, and it all makes sense. They *do* work for a foreign power. They *are* acting under duress. We *don't* have a democracy. We are living in the modern version of 'East Europe', only instead of an East Europe with fake democracies controlled by a Russian spy agency, it's a West Europe with fake democracies controlled by an American spy agency.
So yeh, not restrained by law. I admit it, I was dumb.
In the UK, if you speak out Keith Vaz claims you don't love your country! William Hague suggests you are a likely terrorist. Cameron sort of mutters to himself as if he's ashamed at what he's become.
"Outside of our borders, the NSA's more aggressive. It's not constrained by laws."
and how is that working out for your foreign relations?
"'I want to everybody to be clear: the people at the NSA, generally, are looking out for the safety of the American people. They are not interested in reading your emails. They're not interested in reading your text messages. And that's not something that's done. And we've got a big system of checks and balances, including the courts and Congress, who have the capacity to prevent that from happening.'"
but it is done and has been proven by FOIA Requests! and when no one else can see that system of checks and balances in action how do we know its working properly? this is getting ridiculous, between the politics over privacy and climate change and the wall street crowd run amok, maybe the preppers have the right idea.. good bye slashdot, im joining the preppers because even if they are wrong i still win!
"Outside of our borders, the NSA's more aggressive. It's not constrained by laws"
Uhm, I guess the laws of foreign countries, and international law don't apply to our spy organizations. I'm also sure the constraint of our laws (1st Amendment, 4th Amendment) can be ignored at will as well. After all we are just trying to find all the terrorists, right ?!? (You know like the First Unitarian Church of Los Angeles - https://www.eff.org/press/releases/five-more-organizations-join-eff-lawsuit-against-nsa-surveillance)
As Ben Franklin put it, "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
We need to simply shut down the NSA altogether, burn their records in effigy, and recall every elected official who ever voted in favor of their activities, or their funding.
By accepting that the NSA is allowed to spy on anyone who is not American, without any limitations, the American people have let the genie out the bottle. This allows the NSA to gain access and capabilities that are then turned inwards to spy on Americans as well.
“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.” - Abraham Lincoln
On the other hand... I'd be hard pressed to find "IP of US companies" which I had a desire to "own".
(1) I love you
(2) The check is in the mail
(3) I promise I won't XTY &% &%RF *&MOH
I couldn't say the third one. But Obama is adding to the list
Oh, yeah! Wise guy, huh? Woob woob woob woob! Nyuk! Nyuk!
Citation needed. If the NSA spies on me, I know a few Dutch Laws that disagree.
If the sentiment seems to be that the NSA can do fuck all they want oversees, because no "American" law prohibits them, then there are a few national treaties we the Dutch like to burn in public.
'Young people, rightly, are sensitive to the needs to preserve their privacy and to retain internet freedom. And by the way, so am I,' responded the President. 'That's part of not just our First Amendment rights and expectations in this country, but it's particularly something that young people care about, because they spend so much time texting and-- you know, Instagramming.' The fact that the President thinks our desire for privacy and network neutrality is predicated on the ability to text and 'Instagram' other people is a little offensive, and just shows that he doesn't get it.
From the summary:
They're not interested in reading your text messages.
So, who thinks one of the next leaks will involve the NSA reading and data-mining our text messages?
'The NSA actually does a very good job about not engaging in domestic surveillance, not reading people's emails, not listening to the contents of their phone calls. Outside of our borders, the NSA's more aggressive. It's not constrained by laws.'
I read this as a VERY carefully worded line that rather than saying "the NSA is actually pretty reasonable" really says "if you think what we're doing in the US is bad, you should see what we're doing overseas." It practically comes out and says that they're doing all of those things "outside" the US borders. He also implies that all of the metadata collection that is done domestically is just fine.
Based on this, I would suspect that some program that the NSA agrees costs more that the intelligence gathered is worth is going to be cut, but overall nothing is going to change.
Really...
Then why the fuck are they still doing it?
The actual spying isn't the biggest issue I have with the NSA (and GCHQ and ASIO and the others), the biggest issue is the way that these agencies are doing things that deliberately weaken computer security in the name of making it easier to spy on people.
Things like backdoors in who knows what software. Or pressuring software vendors under the table not to fix things that the NSA is using to spy. Or their various proposals for "key escrow" over the years. Or the potential compromise of security related algorithms and protocols (dual-ec-drbg for example is suspect and going back there were questions when the key-length of DES was made shorter by the NSA)
And lets not forget the cryptographic export controls (which still exist and can still be an impediment even if they have been wound back a bit) and what the government did to Zimmerman over PGP.
A have a friend who teaches political science and history at a state college. He has been asking his students how they feel about NSA surveillance and the majority opinion is summarized "I have nothing to hide, I'm not doing anything wrong, if it increases safety it's OK."
It doesn't sound to me like a lot of "young people" are taking a very strong civil-liberties position on this. The school he teaches at is a smaller state school (ie, not the main, big-name state university) so the student body tends to be more "mainstream" than the more leftish bias you might expect at the "prestige" main campus.
And when I raise the issue among my 40-something adult peers it's surprising how little people care and the "Where's your tinfoil hat?" look people give you.
dont expect the truth from that snake
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
who else has the coordinates of every person on the earth for his autonomous attack drones?
As a European, I did the one thing I could do, cancel the server I was renting in the US. Sorry to the very nice people who ran it but your government left me with no choice.
"If anyone needs me, I'm in the angry dome."
if you're asking for more government regulation and transparency I'm all for it...
Thank you Dave Raggett
Cockroach in the concrete
Courthouse tan and beady eyes
A slouch with fallen arches
Purging truths into great lies
The little man with a big eraser
Changing history
Procedures that he's programmed to
And all he hears and sees
Altering the facts and figures
Events and every issue
Make a person disappear
No one will ever miss you
Dave Mustaine, 1988
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Does the NSA get around the restrictions on spying on US citizens by allowing/encouraging Great Britain (for example) to spy on us (and vice versa) and then sharing the data? If so, has that behavior been documented?
Do you ever plan to get "uppity" in the future about something or someone doing it wrong? Then, the NSA is not for you. With a record of every boring and not so boring detail of your past on file that no one has looked at until your moment, there will be a way to, passively or actively, blackmail you into inactivity. In fact, it has a retroactive effect; you'll second guess your every move.
Eventually, a generation or two from now, we'll be just another poverty stricken boot licker operation. Everyone will be afraid to do anything creative or productive with anyone since the authorities will likely perceive their innovation as a threat to their established power.
Men not interested in the Badge or the Bible are then either a homosexual or a revolutionary--crimes deserving of punishment or execution. The more of these malcontents that disappear, the more entrenched the stagnant power will remain. If you start your family early and hunker down to some menial task, it'll keep the police and preachers happy.
Learn to trust and love your government. Long live the NSA. Learn to truly love your NSA.
Dear peasants,
We in the government totally respect your silly, whimsical desire to foolish little things like rights and your privacy, even when we are blatantly violating your rights and privacy. It's as important to us as it is to you. In fact we respect your rights and privacy so much that we plan to violate them even more in the immediate future. Hey, no need to thank me, it's my job.
Also, I completely agree with you that the NSA should be shut down and most of its workforce thrown in jail. That's why, just for you, I've given them a pat on the head, an increased budget and told them to carry on doing all the stuff you don't like and more. Because I'm such a nice guy and I'm completely on your side.
Oh BTW down is up, black is white and slavery is freedom.
Peace out,
The Prez
They don't care about your average texts. They care who is reading your texts and which ones you are reading.
It is connections that matter, not the messages themselves.
'I want to everybody to be clear: the people at the NSA, generally, are looking out for the safety of the American people. They are not interested in reading your emails. They're not interested in reading your text messages. And that's not something that's done.
So this is like, "If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance." Got it.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Silly me, I thought the Constitution constrained the US government by US law, wherever situate, and that the constraints did not stop at the nation's borders. Whoops.
Obama, like all high-level politicians in the US, gave up his personal privacy as the entry fee for his chosen profession.
The difference between him and the rest of us is:
* He chose his privacy level. We can't.
* He has the power to make the government back off when they find something questionable. We don't.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Asking for evidence ad infinitum is also a common trolling tactic
...and making statements with no evidence, but claiming that the evidence is there for anyone who cares to find it, isn't a common trolling tactic?
You made a statement of fact, presumably because that fact is something you care for people to believe. So take a moment of your time to provide a link or two. Even if you're being "trolled" there will certainly be some non-trolls reading the comments as well who will learn from the link you provide.
Could you please send a note to the company in question, specifically telling them why you cancelled your service?
If this happens enough times, eventually US companies will start to poke the government about it.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Obama is good at promising. He promised to close Gitmo, he promised more accountability, he promised to be a president for everyone, he was so promising he even got a Nobel Peace prize.
He actually has no problems promising things he knows to be a lie, repeatedly. Several of the assertions he made about the NSA program were done at a time where he is documented to have known better.
This person is a crook beyond the level of Richard Nixon, and his cronies like the illegal weapons trafficker Eric Holder heading the Department of "Justice" specialize in blackmail ("plea deals"). The whole NSA operation's main purpose is gathering blackmailing material. They don't even have the time to bother about terrorists: there was concrete evidence and warnings and notifications before 9/11 and before the Boston marathon.
But either they were so busy with collecting dirt on everyone that they could not bother, or they decided that a few terrorist acts would very much benefit their funding. And they were hugely rewarded for letting those things happen. Osama bin Laden was in a training camp of the CIA.
The NSA and CIA love terrorists, they are their job guarantee. They would not lightly stop any terrorist plot that is actually going to result in serious casualties and property damage.
"I'll be proposing more _self_ restraint." In other words, there will be no restraints. Restraint means there are rules on bad behavior that can't be broken without consequence. Self-restraint means there are no rules imposed on you by a third party, and it's up to you to decide whether the behavior is bad. The problem with self-restraint is that most government officials are deeply schooled in situation ethics, so whether behavior is acceptable is totally up to personal interpretation, personal goals, and personal motivation.
The promises "to initiate some reforms that can give people more confidence." In other words, as we have heard before, he believes it is a PR problem, and he has announced that his reforms, rather than changing things actually, will be mainly designed to change public perception of what they are already doing. At least he's being honest about it.
"The NSA actually does a very good job about not engaging in domestic surveillance, not reading people's emails, not listening to the contents of their phone calls." The NSA already said they pull in so much data it isn't possible for them to separate domestic from foreign traffic. It is on the order of petabytes. When he says they are not listening to phone calls, reading emails, etc., bear in mind they are recording and storing those very things. They just don't have a live person sitting in a chair listening to them right this moment. The only reason they supposedly aren't is because of the "self-restraint" he just mentioned. However, they can store that data as long as they like, until they discover a novel legal theory that says they can listen to it. With regard to the Snowden documents, the GCHQ has said they are "out there" and don't seem comforted by the self-restraint of the journalists that are filtering through them.
"Outside of our borders, the NSA's more aggressive. It's not constrained by laws." False. It is constrained by treaties, which are like laws but enforced with nukes.
Ron Paul's not going to fix this shit without breaking a bunch of ridiculous shit. If he wasn't so fucking crazy aside from a couple policies he might be worth considering.
He's like a broken VCR: he's still right twice a day, but nevermind the rest of the time.
Asking for evidence ad infinitum is also a common trolling tactic
It is also a common practice in Academia, and as such is almost always required when supporting an argument. /. all day and would like one of the other community members to help prove or disprove that comment.
When someone asked for a citation or a source they are asking that the information be verified and not just something pulled out of your ass.
Also as Spikenerd stated he does not have the luxury of trolling
and last but not least, it is just a common cutesy to those in the community to provide a source so that we can determine if you are talking out of your ass or not.
its like not commenting on your own code. its a dick move.
They don't care about your average texts...
Until they do care. Sorry, no. Unless you have a reason, as in a reason good enough to get a warrant, stay the fuck out of my personal communications, Uncle Sam.
A Constitutional scholar would know that it's part of the Fourth Amendment. Obama is all fake.
They will only care after the metadata makes them think you're a terrorist. At that point they can intercept all the want anyway with a warrant. Until that point they don't care. Location and SNA data is vastly more valuable.
... that this man promises change, but changes his promises. He'll say what people want to hear.
Signature intentionally left blank.
So, "he'll be reining in some of the snooping conducted by the NSA".
Ho, hum. Wake me up when he gets that whole "right and wrong" thing figured our and schedules a welcome home dinner for Snowden at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
"The NSA actually does a very good job about not engaging in domestic surveillance, not reading people's emails, not listening to the contents of their phone calls."
This has already been proven to be false. Now is not the time to be lying about this.
Obama is so clearly out of touch with the American public, I cringe every time he tries to pretend the opposite. He obviously has no understanding of what Instagram is or how social networks actually function. Most people understand those things are not private, hence that whole "sharing" aspect of the them. That is information volunatrily being given away by people. Phone records, communications, and geolocation are not. And to continue to lie about Congress and the courts being big checks on the system is just sad. By now, everyone should be aware that the FISA courts are nothing more than a rubber stamp and that only a tiny subset of Congress is actually briefed on the NSA's activities, and in secret at that. As other commenters have said below, if the NSA (and government in general) isn't interested in reading our emails and texts and other communications, then why are they recording them? William Binney gave an interview with Dan Carlin on Carlin's Common Sense podcast and supplied some great insight into the NSA's activities, as he worked for them for decades and was fired and nearly prosecuted for going through the proper channels to blow the whistle on this very thing. One highlight from the interview - he said all of the metadata being collected could be stored in equipment in a room 12'x22', so why else would they be building data storage facilities that are millions of cubic feet? How hilarious and ridiculous is it that he is imposing "self-restraint" on an organization that has no interest in self-restraint? The sooner people wake up and stop voting for (R) and (D), the sooner we'll have a chance to start correcting this mess.
Why is this monkey still breathing? Or the next one? Or the last one? Oh right, you are all pussified now.
Promises to put on a happy puppet show with bright colors and smiling faces!
They just use keywords and who you sent them to, and when you sent them to geo-locate you.
Welcome to our Stasi Overlords!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
You let the power of the NSA grow far too much and no you have no chance of ever changing it. That's the punishment for bleating when all the rhetoric about terrorists was going on after 2001. Blame it on the people that love feeling safe too much, they are always trouble. They'll buy any shit.
When Alexander and Clapper lie, knowingly and willfully, under direct questioning and with time to prepare their answers, to our representatives faces and Obama does nothing about it, we know where he stands.
The NSA isn't going to be reined in by any forces other than our own. We are The People, and we own the Internet. We need to build mandatory encryption into its protocols that we use, and thus remove the ability to comply with unconstitutional snooping demands by the NSA or any other malicious group that needs to be defended against from corporations, service providers, and network operators.
How is this any different from any of Obama's other promises? That he'll get rid of Gitmo, that you could keep your old health insurance, etc. This is just more meaningless pablum to pacify the masses.
They will only care after the metadata makes them think you're a terrorist...
...or something else that is now "dangerous".
The terrorists have won as long as idiots like you and AC think this is OK.
They will only care after the metadata makes them think you're a terrorist.
No, they'll care as soon as you do something they really don't like, whether or not whatever you did was wrong. All this information at their fingertips is merely something they can use to oppress anyone they don't like.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
You are wasting a shit ton of money on Terrorism protections, meanwhile falling down in the bathtub is a greater risk to American lives.
Every year: Heart disease and accidents cause Four Hundred Times more deaths than a 9/11 scale attack. We will fight you to the death for the freedom to drive fast cars to fast food restaurants. We do not need protection from the pathetic "terrorist threat". Stand terrorism next to ANY other threat and you will see why our HUGE budget to fight it is ridiculous and proponents of spending such should be fired on sight. They say Terrorism is nothing to sneeze at, but EVERY YEAR the Flu kills SIX TIMES more people than a 9/11 scale attack. They pay for submarines to tap into under sea cables to prevent terrorism? Body scanners and gropers at transportation hubs? No longer.
The public needs proportional protection from proportional risk. The budget for terrorist protection should be less than that of the Flu prevention, and less than what we spend to preventing you from braining yourself on the bathtub faucet by accident. It has become clear that our protection is not the government's agenda. It seems that the agenda is to funnel as much money possible into the pockets of those who benefit by increasing the size and reach of the Military Industrial Complex.
You have made Eisenhower's Nightmare come true.
The NSA is going to impose self-restraint? Oh is that so?
I know it's blunt, slashdot, but: Fuck you, Barry. I'm tired of your double-speak asshole-moral-equivalence-eeee-grrrr-argh!. Fuck you, and fuck your politics.
Lay on the banhammer! Say it's unacceptable, that a culture of paranoia only hurts the freedoms that America is supposed to champion, that it hurts commerce, and that the populace needs to stand up and have a goddamn backbone for a change, then start chopping heads! I voted for you, jackass, and while I've been willing to put up with an awful lot of crap from your shitpumping cogwheel of an administration I see no other course than to take my vote elsewhere, and that is NOT to your Republican friends.
Or, of course, it could mean that he can't actually do much of anything because he doesn't have much power to Get Things Done, and is really just a puppet head. The President's, real power is in MOTIVATING THE PEOPLE, and he does little more than slurgle out wan words and beige spittle as he drones forth,"Trust us, Patriot, pay no attention and consume more."
I'm sure he's just following what his advisors tell him will get the most votes.
What a wasted opportunity; I'm sure he wants to Secure His Legacy by raising the minimum wage. Blech.
Nelson Mandel should be our source of renewable energy now, spinning like that.
I said it was okay? Where exactly? Explaining their reasoning does not in any way imply that I think it's okay.
Duh, that was my entire point. The metadata is more valuable to label you as a being part of the boogeyman group de jure and then they will care about the content of your messages.
They don't even have to label you as a terrorist, or anything else.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
When they lied even to the congress without consequences they crossed the line. Anything they say could be a lie without consequences, More words won't fix it. Fireworks should not fool anyone. "Whisteblowers" confirming this could be fake. We got lucky with Snowden doing something that they didn't imagined and warned us, but that won't happen again, and they could keep making things worse.
Let's say the people at the nsa actually do have regular people's interest at heart and don't care about their emails or anything like that. Let's say they just have this giant hose and they're sucking up everything, trying to find actual clues for things that actual bad people want to do. Ok, let's say that's true.
What happens when those people leave? What happens when the new people come in like 10 years?
People that work at the nsa now, especially the upper leadership, probably have a good memory of what life was like before the internet. They probably have a good "gut sense" of how to navigate the grey areas and when to take risks and violate the law for the "greater good". But, those people won't be there forever. The people who get there in 10 years might not have the same sense of "discretion" and restraint because they've had all of this electronic stuff their whole lives and don't even know what privacy was like before the internet came along.
That's an argument you can use to convince the people who say "you just don't understand, we're doing this for your best interests. Trust us!" without saying "we don't trust you!!! You're evil!!!" Just say, "sure, I trust you. But, what about the people coming in behind you? You've proven yourself trustworthy by your (apparent) lack of abuse (or mild abuse) of your power. What can you tell me that will make me think the people who come in later are GUARANTEED to be as wise as you?"
At this point, the notion that anything Obama said to Chris Matthews was not a fabricated play to his base... is naive beyond belief. Obama is all politician, all the time, and would say ANYTHING to ANYONE in order to shore up his base, put money in his or his party's pocket, etc. He couldn't even tell the truth about his uncle for crissakes....
Murphy was an optimist
Obama is much more crazy than Bush ever was. Bush was at least quite honest. Obama promises change and hope, and then does everything Bush did, but a little worse - and smiling all the time. He's a dangerous puppet, dancing to all kinds of interest, except the ordinary people he's supposed to be working for.
Globalization/Business/Politics/Religions are Ponzi/Pyramid scams. It's a slow poison that will destroy your middle class.
Casteism
Are you still hoping for a change, sucker?
This man does not walk the walk.
--
Irrational fear is the new patriotism.
Seriously - whatever the government's reaction to the public outcry against the NSA spying, why should we as the public believe it? The only thing we should believe is laws and regulations that contain a clear path for recourse should those laws be broken. The US government can, and will, spin any negative press in their favor. They will lie to us, and then lie about lying to us. And why wouldn't they? If you were the one in power, and your subjects could do very little to stop you from acting in your own best interests, wouldn't you (almost) do whatever you wanted? Maybe a better way to put it is that the United States is a country of "the ends justify the means," and the means can be whatever, as long as they're reported in such a way that polling shows that most Americans would favor the decision.