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Polynesians May Have Invented Binary Math

sciencehabit writes "How old is the binary number system? Perhaps far older than the invention of binary math in the West. The residents of a tiny Polynesian island may have been doing calculations in binary—a number system with only two digits—centuries before it was described by Gottfried Leibniz, the co-inventor of calculus, in 1703."

170 comments

  1. There were 10 types of ancient societies by Cryacin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Those who understood binary, and those who didn't.

    --
    Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    1. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I thought they invented polynomials.

    2. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you RTFA this joke has double meaning ;-)

    3. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      That is a very old joke. I first heard it at least 10100 years ago...

    4. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Funny

      They also used coconut shells as both bowls and for fuel. Polymorphism, if you will.

    5. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think AC was referring to the fact that these people did not use binary. They just had special words for 10 and a few multiples of 10 like 20, 40 & 80.

      There are 10 types of people who understand AC's joke: those who RTFA and those who didn't.

    6. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by TheInternetGuy · · Score: 1

      I thought they invented polynomials.

      No polynomials were invented by the Bhinese.

      --
      If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
    7. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      So now they are also credited with OOP? What's next, a professor on the island who makes nuclear reactors out of cocoanuts, cave rocks, and urine from a Hollywood babe wearing an "S.S. Minnow" dress?

    8. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So now they are also credited with...What's next...

      Yes, they are polymaths.

    9. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by synaptik · · Score: 0

      This joke got old 10 years ago.

      --
      HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
      NO CARRIER
    10. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Someone needs to hit these "researchers" upside the head with an Abacus and a copy of the I Ching.

    11. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the Polynesians speak Bhinese. They're polyglots.

    12. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Actually, there are 10 types of people: Those who understand Arabic numerals and applied them to binary, and all the rest.

    13. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Mateorabi · · Score: 5, Funny

      No there are 10 types of people:
      Those that understand binary
      Those that don't
      And those that don't realize the joke is base-3.

      --
      "You saved 1968." - Ms. Valerie Pringle to the crew of Apollo 8

    14. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      Your theory is flawed. Had they developed polymorphism, surely they would have developed cars to explain it to everyone else?

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    15. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      This thread wins the "Thread of the year" award.

      only thing missing is that they defined their maps as polygons.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    16. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Luna+Argenteus · · Score: 1

      ``Polymorphism'' is not OOP's exclusive characteristic, you know. But I suspect the Polynesian might be behind the development of System F.

    17. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2

      That's what they were after they left the island.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    18. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are 1 types of people. Those who start counting with 0, and those who don't.

    19. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      With all those different inventions, you might even call them polymaths...

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    20. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by mcneely.mike · · Score: 0

      only thing missing is that they defined their maps as gilligans.

      FTFY :)

      --
      soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
    21. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      The urine from anybody else just wouldn't work as well.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    22. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HaaaHaaaa !!!!!!
      Par excellence!!! Oh man!

    23. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Maryann's has the necessary scientific properties also, if needed. In fact, to be on the safe side, collect both.

    24. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      score

    25. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Overrated? Oh come on... moderator clearly doesn't understand binary. Grumble...

    26. Re:There were 10 types of ancient societies by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      cave rocks

      Polysilicates, yes.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  2. How is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Different cultures have been counting in bases other than base-10 for all of human history. Of course a gentleman in the 18th century wasn't the first to use binary.... that's preposterous.

    The Mayans, for example, counted in based 20 (supposedly because they counted on both their fingers and, thanks to a warm climate, exposed toes).

    1. Re:How is this news? by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

      There was a Mayan tribe that went around naked. The men used base 21 and the women base 22

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    2. Re:How is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would mean that women counted in 20's and men counted in 21's. Thus the start of the communication problems between the sexes.

    3. Re:How is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a Mayan tribe that went around naked. The men used base 21 and the women base 22

      The men could have used based 23.

    4. Re:How is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The male Mayans used base 21 because they weren't fat enough to use base 23; it's opposite of the reason that most male /.ers can only use base 22 -- because they're not long enough to use base 23.

    5. Re:How is this news? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Its not news, as indicated by the journalistic codeword "may" as in "there MAY not actually be a story here but its good for click-throughs, so we're going to run it anyways".

      Its very similar to Bettridge's Law of headlines: If a headline uses the word "may", you can generally assume that there will be little actual substance and a lot of overstatement in the article.

    6. Re:How is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a Mayan tribe that went around naked. The men used base 21 and the women base 22

      The men could have used based 23.

      Only those with moobs.

    7. Re:How is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are obviously self conscious about your own moobs. If your gaze wasnt obscured by them, you would realise that males also have 2 testicles to count on, as well as their gentlemans sausage. Hence, base 23.

    8. Re:How is this news? by master5o1 · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that nipples are not visible unless there is a significant amount of fat behind them?

      --
      signature is pants
    9. Re:How is this news? by quenda · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that nipples are not visible unless there is a significant amount of fat behind them?

      In order to use a digit for counting, you need to be able to move it. He is saying that Mayan women had articulated nipples.

    10. Re:How is this news? by Optali · · Score: 1

      The Mayans also counted in base 13... go figure where they got the idea for this

      --
      -- 29A the number of the Beast
    11. Re:How is this news? by Optali · · Score: 1

      You sure males have only 2 testicles?
      Mate, I need to talk to my doctor.

      --
      -- 29A the number of the Beast
    12. Re:How is this news? by maharvey · · Score: 1

      Clearly ten fingers, two buttocks, and a nose.

    13. Re:How is this news? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia says Leibnitz got binary from a friend who had been to China and introduced him to the I-Ching, which was developed about 9000BC. Leibnitz also believed that the ancient Chinese had developed calculus (also because of the I-Ching).

      Amazing what I learn reading slashdot. It leads me to good wikipedia articles.

  3. "Discovered" would be more appropriate by jatoo · · Score: 2

    Binary mathematics was always there.

    Australian aborigines have been known to use the binary system as well.

    Being able to count to 512 on your fingers can be handy!

    1. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by PIBM · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm sorry for you! If you had all of your fingers, you'd make it to 1023!

    2. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by djdanlib · · Score: 1

      Either you're using a sign bit, or you are missing a finger. 10 bits gets you a range of 0-1023 or 1-1024.

    3. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Roachie · · Score: 1

      Lets not forget finger #11

      --
      This sig is not paradoxical or ironic.
    4. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      GP probably uses signed integers.

    5. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Sign bit' is my dick's name you insensitive clod.

    6. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by pesho · · Score: 2

      The only number that i need to count in binary on my fingers is 4: oo1oo

    7. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by sconeu · · Score: 2

      You have six fingers on your right hand.... Someone is looking for you.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    8. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be from Chernobyl - most non-mutants can only get to 255 using their fingers alone!

    9. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Maybe he has limp digits, and needs one as a parity bit . . . ?

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    10. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by hguorbray · · Score: 0

      then there is one, two, many (oblig xkcd) http://xkcd.com/764/

      http://numberwarrior.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/is-one-two-many-a-myth/

      -I'm just sayin'

    11. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just don't count to 132 while facing someone... they might take it the wrong way.

    12. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You only have 8 fingers?

    13. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have six fingers on your right hand.... Someone is looking for you.

      "You killed my father, prepare to DIE!

    14. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by mugnyte · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's called thumb's-complement - still in IEEE committee, but quite handy.

    15. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      So you are always negative when good looking women are around..... Sorry for you.

    16. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry for you! If you had all of your fingers, you'd make it to 1023!

      Floating point will get you further, if you don't mind loosing some digits of precision.. Should work great for 4 digits at +- E16 - E-16.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    17. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't that when you're behind someone?

    18. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. At least I'm not all thumbs!

    19. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by bobbied · · Score: 1

      You are NO thumbs if you are 8 fingers...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    20. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      132, my son.

    21. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      Not sure if one, two, many is a myth, but one to many is a database relationship.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    22. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by icebike · · Score: 1

      If you are holding a 6th finger in your right hand, the left hand must be taking the selfie.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    23. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One to many is a your mom relationship.

    24. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 1

      Many days have September, April, June and November, all the rest have many except February which has many unless it's a leap year in which case it has many. Leap years occur many years apart.

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    25. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 1

      I have one message for digital binary pedants: 132

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    26. Re: "Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Loose the hounds, not precision!

    27. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by fatphil · · Score: 1

      Imperial volume measurement has been binary for a long time too. Owe
      3 3/4 barrels of beer to the freeholder? That'll be 1 puncheon, 1 barrel, 1 kilderkin, and 1 pin. Other binary scaling can be seen in gills, cups, pints, quarts, gallons, pecks, bushels, etc...

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    28. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that would be taking it the right way

    29. Re:"Discovered" would be more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Floating point will get you further, if you don't mind loosing some digits of precision.

      How would one go about setting some digits of precision free? Because that's what you said and it makes no sense at all.

  4. Professor Farnsworth Says... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    Bad News, Everyone!

    It turns out that we've been trying to figure out binary math for hundreds of years longer than previously believed, which means we humans are worse at math than we thought!

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  5. FTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But their special counting words are all decimal numbers multiplied by powers of two, which are 1, 2, 4, 8 . Specifically, takau equals 10; paua equals 20; tataua, 40; and varu, 80. Those big numbers are useful for keeping track of collections of valuable items, such as coconuts, that come in large numbers.

    There must be a Gilligan's Island joke in here somewhere...

  6. Sounds like they're trying to hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So this tribe had special numbers for 10, 20, 40, and 80, so that means they had a binary number system? That's a big stretch. That probably means they counted on two people's fingers and toes.

    BTW the French word for eighty is quatre-vingt (four twenties). Same idea, probably.

    1. Re:Sounds like they're trying to hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought the same thing but then I realized that anthropologists don't get much ink anymore and once in a while we have to throw them a bone (I mean how many Tutankhamuns are out there anymore?).

      BTW the French word for eighty is quatre-vingt (four twenties). Same idea, probably.

      I guess that's why this island is in French Polynesia?

    2. Re:Sounds like they're trying to hard by Richard+Kirk · · Score: 1

      Going to make that point myself. There is 'four score' in English, and an old Northumbrian counting scheme that used to count in multiples of 20 ('chiggit'). Weirdly enough, 'quatre vingts' seems a compartively recent invention: I am told 'ottante' was used in Belgium around WW1. This counting style may not have been ancient.

    3. Re:Sounds like they're trying to hard by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      The interesting thing is that in French, they stopped making new numbers after sixty. Seventy is "soixante dix" which is sixty ten, which is followed by "soixante onze", "sixty eleven", and so on. Eight, like you said is quatre vingts, and ninety is "quatre vingts dix".

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  7. What's with this "may"? by newcastlejon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Either they did or they didn't.

    --
    If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    1. Re:What's with this "may"? by jones_supa · · Score: 2

      Exactly! It's either 1 or 0 when talking about binary!

    2. Re:What's with this "may"? by flaming+error · · Score: 1

      "If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory."

      What's with this "if"? Either He does or He doesn't.

    3. Re:What's with this "may"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think "may" implies a lack of certainty whether they did or they didn't. It's generally that, or the fifth month of the Gregorian calendar.

    4. Re:What's with this "may"? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      They also invented half-dead cats before Schrodinger....or not.

    5. Re:What's with this "may"? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      There is true, false and carry.. Unless you are out of fingers in which case the carry signal sets overflow.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    6. Re:What's with this "may"? by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

      But that is a much more catchy headline than simply stating that they probably used binary math for some things.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    7. Re:What's with this "may"? by Typical+Slashdotter · · Score: 1

      Uncertain information, that's what's with it. Next question?

    8. Re:What's with this "may"? by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      Uncertain information, that's what's with it. Next question?

      How many slashdotters does it take to spot a thinly-veilled binary gag?

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    9. Re:What's with this "may"? by antdude · · Score: 1

      Because they don't know? LOL.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    10. Re:What's with this "may"? by Typical+Slashdotter · · Score: 1

      Apparently a lot, since it's currently modded "Insightful."

    11. Re:What's with this "may"? by kruach+aum · · Score: 1

      "May" does not describe what the Polynesians did, but confidence in the evidence obtained about and the existence of possible counter-evidence for what the Polynesians did.

    12. Re:What's with this "may"? by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      The word "may" indicates uncertainty in this case.

    13. Re:What's with this "may"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Penny: "Well, I don't know, there was a cat in my dad's trunk and anybody could tell there was all kind of dead cat in there."

  8. Too bad we didn't settle on base 12 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So many easy divisors.

    1. Re:Too bad we didn't settle on base 12 by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Or how about Base 13 just to fsck with people and make math teachers rich. It would also make QWERTY look sane in comparison.

    2. Re:Too bad we didn't settle on base 12 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clocks are base 12, so are feet.

    3. Re:Too bad we didn't settle on base 12 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep hearing this argument in the favor of the imperial system... but we have this magical thing called decimals.

    4. Re:Too bad we didn't settle on base 12 by WillgasM · · Score: 1

      Not all of us have six toes on each.

    5. Re:Too bad we didn't settle on base 12 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep hearing this argument in the favor of the imperial system... but we have this magical thing called decimals.

      Decimals are imprecise. For example, try writing the EXACT (not approximate) value of 1/3 (one third) in decimal. Or "pi". Have fun with that.

    6. Re:Too bad we didn't settle on base 12 by mc6809e · · Score: 1

      Decimals have nothing to do with it.

      Base 12 is incredibly convenient for breaking up one thing into several parts in many ways. A dozen divided in half gives six each. Into thirds gives 4 each. Into fourths gives 3 each. Into sixths gives 2 each.

      Easy.

      But anyway, even duodecimal is somewhat easier than decimal, too.

      Base 10

      1/2 = 0.5
      1/3 = 0.3333...
      1/4 = 0.25
      1/5 = 0.2
      1/6 = 0.1666...
      1/7 = 0.142857...
      1/8 = 0.125
      1/9 = 0.1111...

      Base 12 (using A for 10 and B for 11)

      1/2 = 0.6
      1/3 = 0.4
      1/4 = 0.3
      1/5 = 0.2497...
      1/6 = 0.2
      1/7 = 0.186...
      1/8 = 0.16
      1/9 = 0.14

    7. Re:Too bad we didn't settle on base 12 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Base-12 are imprecise. For example, try writing the EXACT (not approximate) value of 1/5 (one fifth) in base-12. Or "pi". Have fun with that.

      Normally I would say FTFY, but since the beginning of 1/5 in base-12 is 0.24972497... I'm not really sure if I actually did FTFY...

      If b and n are integers, n < b and b%n != 0, then 1/n can't be written exact in base-b.

      Have fun proving that...

    8. Re:Too bad we didn't settle on base 12 by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      If b and n are integers, n < b and b%n != 0, then 1/n can't be written exact in base-b.

      Have fun proving that...

      Yeah that's going to be great fun...

      n=4; b=10

      4 10 - check.
      10 % 4 != 0 - check (2 != 0)
      1/4 = 0.25 in base-10 which is exact.

      Provings things which aren't true is always fun.

  9. bool by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1

    Why are variables called "bool"s instead of "leib"s?

    1. Re:bool by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      George Boole. He invented the formal mathematical system of boolean logic.

    2. Re:bool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are variables called "bool"s instead of "leib"s?

      Because boolean variables can hold true or false as values. Binary is a way to represent numbers. I'm not sure how you could consider them the same, except that bits in binary have two possible values 0 or 1 and a boolean variable can have two possible values true or false.

    3. Re:bool by hazah · · Score: 1

      I hope you realize that it's boolean logic that gives rise to these representations of numbers and their manipulations. Addition circuitry uses boolean logic. Flipflops (basic ram circuitry) use boolean logic. It's all boolean, based on "and", "or" and "not" alone. Once in the processor, they are, in fact, the same.

    4. Re:bool by twistedcubic · · Score: 1

      Because bool sounds cool.

  10. Poly? by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wouldn't that be "Binesians"?

    1. Re:Poly? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Right. And the Micronesians invented fractions.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Poly? by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 1

      They're "Some O 1 s"

      --
      I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
  11. If only we had eight fingers by tomhath · · Score: 1

    I always thought that mathematics would have progressed much faster if humans had either four or eight fingers on each hand instead of five.

    1. Re:If only we had eight fingers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I only have 8 fingers.......and 2 thumbs!!!

  12. Binary is much older than Leibniz... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Leibniz freely admits that he took ideas from the I Ching: http://www.leibniz-translations.com/binary.htm

    What is amazing in this reckoning is that this arithmetic by 0 and 1 is found to contain the mystery of the lines of an ancient King and philosopher named Fuxi, who is believed to have lived more than 4000 years ago, and whom the Chinese regard as the founder of their empire and their sciences.2 There are several linear figures attributed to him, all of which come back to this arithmetic, but it is sufficient to give here the Figure of the Eight Cova, as it is called, which is said to be fundamental, and to join to them the explanation which is obvious, provided that one notices, firstly, that a whole line — means unity, or 1, and secondly, that a broken line -- means zero, or 0.

    The Chinese lost the meaning of the Cova or Lineations of Fuxi, perhaps more than a thousand years ago, and they have written commentaries on the subject in which they have sought I know not what far out meanings, so that their true explanation now has to come from Europeans. Here is how: It was scarcely more than two years ago that I sent to Reverend Father Bouvet,3 the celebrated French Jesuit who lives in Peking, my method of counting by 0 and 1, and nothing more was required to make him recognize that this was the key to the figures of Fuxi. Writing to me on 14 November 1701, he sent me this philosophical prince's grand figure, which goes up to 64, and leaves no further room to doubt the truth of our interpretation, such that it can be said that this Father has deciphered the enigma of Fuxi, with the help of what I had communicated to him. And as these figures are perhaps the most ancient monument of [GM VII, p227] science which exists in the world, this restitution of their meaning, after such a great interval of time, will seem all the more curious.

  13. Weak evidence indeed by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

    Different cultures have been counting in bases other than base-10 for all of human history.

    Yes, the actual article discusses that.

    The article, however, is remarkably weak in support for the hypothesis that the people of Mangareva (the "tiny Pacific island" mentioned) actually used binary arithmetic, since in fact it doesn't give any evidence at all that they actually used binary arithmetic. What it says is they have number words for three binary powers of ten:paua for 20; tataua for 40; and varu for 80.

    The jump from there to "thus clearly they invented binary arithmetic" is speculation. They state that none of the islanders use binary arithmetic now, and there's no record they once did-- just those words for binary-multiples-of-ten.

    Of course a gentleman in the 18th century wasn't the first to use binary.... that's preposterous.

    I don't know what is "of course" about that statement. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of anybody using binary before then. Maybe somebody did, but it seen they didn't tell anybody.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:Weak evidence indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There doesn't seem to be any evidence of anybody using binary before then.

      The Chinese Abacus dates back to at least the 2nd Century BC. That's pretty solid proof, even if the researchers don't understand how to use one. (Hint- look at the top row)
      Also, ever heard of the yin/yang symbol? How about the I Ching? Both philosophical systems are based on the concept of a binary universe.

    2. Re:Weak evidence indeed by icebike · · Score: 3, Informative

      The article, however, is remarkably weak in support for the hypothesis that the people of Mangareva (the "tiny Pacific island" mentioned) actually used binary arithmetic, since in fact it doesn't give any evidence at all that they actually used binary arithmetic. What it says is they have number words for three binary powers of ten:paua for 20; tataua for 40; and varu for 80.

      The article wasn't so much weak, as it was in awe of an accident of hindsight. (It only looks "special" because we settled on binary for computers.)
      It explicitly made the point that base 10 was used except to refer to large groups.
      Their "special words" took hold only after they ran out of fingers.

      In fact, if you look at it as counting the number of "bodies worth of fingers and toes" it looks less like using binary and more like "We can't count that high, but there was one fish in the pond for every finger and toe of each person in our boat). After that they just counted boats.

      Its really not much different than westerners counting in dozens, and grosses (something that wiki unconvincingly attributes to the convenience of 12 having many divisors. From the same article you learn there were Latin terms for groups of 15, 20, etc. It seems that special, extra ordinal counting numbers for baskets full of stuff are not that unusual.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:Weak evidence indeed by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      You've got it nailed. There is nothing in the article to suggest that Polynesians used base two. Wild speculation based on a few words in an almost extinct language. Wow. There is more evidence to support the idea that ancient space men visited the earth at various times, and THAT evidence is exceedingly thin.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    4. Re:Weak evidence indeed by danlip · · Score: 1

      What it says is they have number words for three binary powers of ten:paua for 20; tataua for 40; and varu for 80.

      Which to me is clear evidence they did not use binary math, but base-10 or base-20.

    5. Re:Weak evidence indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did we really 'settle on binary for computers'? I always thought it was a result of the choices of either 'electricity on' or 'electricity off' when dealing with transistors.

    6. Re:Weak evidence indeed by icebike · · Score: 2

      Transistors are just switches, and the simplest switching is between on and off. But later there were developed trinary (aka ternary) switches (off, positive, negative) but by then the binary computer was so entrenched there was no impetuous to change.
        Much of that work was done in Russia. Google "Setun".

      There were some BCD hardware that was (claimed to be) much better at decimal math (even if it was faking it with binary). CDC was big into this in the 70s.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    7. Re:Weak evidence indeed by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Non-binary components survive (indeed, have massively expanded recently), notably MLC Flash memory where the higher density is very much in demand. Unfortunately, trying to cram in more possible states makes accurately setting or reading the state of a cell more difficult, so MLC is generally lousier than SLC except on price.

      My impression is that this difficulty is what tends to keep greater-than-two-state components away, even from areas where they could be incorporated transparently, from the point of view of the overall binary system: if your technology allows you to accurately distinguish between more than two states at a given voltage and speed, it likely allows you to distinguish between only two faster, or at lower voltage, or both.

    8. Re:Weak evidence indeed by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The article wasn't so much weak, as it was in awe of an accident of hindsight. (It only looks "special" because we settled on binary for computers.)

      Leibnitz discovered binary math in 1679. His ideas came from the I-Ching, and he believed that the ancient (9000 BC) Chinese knew binary calculus (according to wikipedia).

      Apparently, binary math isn't new.

  14. "Ethiopian" or "Egyprian" multiplication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This uses binary math, though not quite explicitly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_multiplication

    1. Re:"Ethiopian" or "Egyprian" multiplication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This uses binary math, though not quite explicitly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_multiplication

      As a computer geek and a history geek I thank you. :-)

      Off to google how the romans multiplied numbers ...

  15. Cretinous Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why is it that people who are actually terrible at understanding the basics of maths think that because they express an interest, they are some kind of mathematical genius.

    There is NOTHING inherently special in binary, base10 or whatever. What ***IS*** special is the realisation of using ANY form of number-base system to handle calculations. The same garbage about a particular base choice being 'magic' led the French morons experimenting with so-called decimal systems for times and dates- fundamentally ignoring why we have 12 hours to a half-day, and 60 minutes to an hour (here's a clue- how many ways can you divided these numbers, and get whole number results?).

    Base2 is the WORST possible base choice for a general counting and calculation system for people. Morons dribble "it's used in 'computing' so it must be clever". As soon as base arithmetic was invented, mathematicians KNEW about base2 as a special case of base-n. How can people here be so thick they do not get this? Was high-school maths really this hard for you to understand.

    Knowing you can use base2 (binary) is NOT having a practical reason to deploy base2. Only when binary state computing was developed did the use of Base2 (or base8, or base16) make sense. Any society using base2 in a pre-computer age can be labelled as seriously retarded.

    AGAIN. All base arithmetic follows the same principles. Therefore an awareness of base-x, where x is a specific integer, gives awareness of any base-n, where n is any positive integer greater or equal to 2.

    1. Re:Cretinous Article by bobbied · · Score: 1

      There is NOTHING inherently special in binary, base10

      Oh but there is. Count your fingers. People normally have 10 fingers, so base 10 is how language defined the basic numbers. Once we started writing things down, place value creeps in and we have the decimal system.

      Mathematically, there is no unique reason to use base 10 except that one has to invent new digits when you go above 9 (OK above F for you Hex types). Binary, Octal and Hex are all used for convenience because the devices we have use multiples of 4 bits (usually). We used base 10 when all we had was fingers. What base you use is about what makes the problem easy. More often than not, that's going to be decimal, unless perhaps you are working with computers doing hardware interfaces.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  16. The Chinese (of course) by nightcats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Perhaps an apocryphal story, but it goes that Leibniz was introduced to the I Ching (Yijing) oracle by a Catholic missionary friend who had gotten it translated into Latin (must have been strange). Anyway, the story goes that Leibniz instantly recognized the binary system in the 64 hexagrams and 8 trigrams. The I Ching is somewhere between 2,500 and 4,000 yrs. old in the format and ordering it still has today.

    --
    Development is programmable; Discovery is not programmable. (Fuller)
    1. Re:The Chinese (of course) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I have mentioned in many previous posts, the Chinese have often lead the way in technology but failed to capitalize on it due to political stupidity.

      We ask for cheap shit and people complain that we get cheap toxic shit? The Chinese are ahead of the US in terms of education and there are many smart people doing progressive technology there.

    2. Re:The Chinese (of course) by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      64 hexagrams and 8 trigrams

      How does that prove they used binary? The numbers I get out of that are 64, 6, 8, and 3. Heck, 2 isn't even a common factor of all of them.

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    3. Re:The Chinese (of course) by ByteSlicer · · Score: 1

      Each trigram is 3 lines, each hexagram 6 lines. The lines are either full line or broken and represent one bit each (1 or 0).

  17. "Invented?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Invented?"

    1. Re:"Invented?" by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      "Invented?"

      Biscovered.

  18. Due to leprasy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because when you only have one digit left ... yes, ONE!

  19. Dear World by Arancaytar · · Score: 3, Funny

    You now owe us royalties on every digital computer built in the last century. Please pay the total of one gazillion dollars to the following bank account.

    -Signed, Polynesia

    1. Re:Dear World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You now owe us royalties on every digital computer built in the last century. Please pay the total of one gazillion dollars to the following bank account.

      -Signed, Polynesia

      Of course, here, take this freshly minted gazillion dollar coin. Good luck finding change.

    2. Re:Dear World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You now owe us royalties on every digital computer built in the last century. Please pay the total of one gazillion dollars to the following bank account.

      -Signed, Polynesia

      Yes, let me know how that works out. I hear the Romans are still trying to collect on the written representation for the decimal system.

    3. Re:Dear World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dang.. I thought we already had paid enough for Bikini Atoll... So, how about we order up some more tests eh?

    4. Re:Dear World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that a binary gazillion or a "hard drive" gazillion?

    5. Re:Dear World by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      the Romans are still trying to collect on the written representation for the decimal system

      They are paid and clear; all that gold and treasure at the Vatican.

    6. Re:Dear World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the part that says "Hello I am a polynesian prince, and need your help for collecting digital rights income. You wil be recompensated generously"

  20. Europeans used binary before Liebniz or Polynesia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Humans used binary long before Leibniz and long before the Polynesians mentioned in the article. For one example:

    2 tablespoons = 1 ounce
    2 ounces = 1 jack
    2 jacks = 1 gill
    2 gills = 1 cup
    2 cups = 1 pint
    2 pints = 1 quart
    2 quarts = 1 pottle
    2 pottles = 1 gallon
    2 gallons = 1 peck
    2 pecks = 1 kenning
    2 kennings = 1 bushel
    2 bushels = 1 strike
    2 strikes = 1 coomb
    2 coombs = 1 hogshead
    2 hogsheads = 1 butt

  21. Language by Dan+East · · Score: 2

    Studies of the Mangareva language in the 1930s recorded that it contained specific words for 10, 20, 40 and 80. Sort of like how English has special words "dozen" and "score" for specific quantities. Their culture and language has been nearly obliterated by external influences over the centuries, so all that remains is the fact that they had special words (beyond their normal numbers) for those values. That could be pure coincidence, or it could indicate that they worked with binary numbers and thus had special words for 0b0001, 0b0010, 0b0100 and 0b1000.

    The thing that doesn't make much sense to me is why they would have multiplied their binary digits by decimal 10. Instead of special words for 1, 2, 4 and 8 they have special words for 10, 20, 40 and 80, and that doesn't make any sense mathematically. Unless originally they used binary and had special words for 1, 2, 4 and 8, then gradually adopted decimal. The special words for such small numbers wouldn't have been useful, so the meaning switched to indicate 10 times that value. 10, 20, 40 and 80 would be useful quantities to have special words for when it comes to trading, buying and selling, and even talking about a person's age.

    Either way, it sure seems to hint that they used binary math at some point in the past.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Danish have special words for 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90 that are all remnants of using the base 20 in counting. (they call 50 "half threes" as in as in half way to the third full "tjog", but I'm not Danish so I guess someone could translate the archaics better)

    2. Re:Language by fatphil · · Score: 1

      There's a good chance it's just mensuration for trade. Things traded in bulk were traded in 10s, and things traded in small quantities were traded in units.

      Imperial units for fluid measure kinda did that either side of the gallon. Smaller, for domestic use, it's binary division, but then suddenly there's a factor of 9 (firkin) for the quantities likely in commercial use.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    3. Re:Language by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      I'm still waiting to hear why we have special words for eleven and twelve. Some remnant of divisibility by 6?

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    4. Re:Language by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      Aren't numbers mainly developed as a tool for trade?

      They probably used binary in the same way that the anglos used base 12, with words like dozen, gross, great gross. But the merchants weren't satisfied with sticking with a single number base and you see some base 2, base 4, base 10, base 12, base 20, and the imperial system of units is a big mess.

      Metric is a big improvement as a consistent standard, but in some ways, it's too bad we settled on the decimal system rather than another radix with better properties.

  22. "Invent" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did they "invent" it or "become aware of" binary math?

  23. They may not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    God wills it, save the queen!

  24. Binary - A Number System With Only Two Digits by TranquilVoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, decades of stories containing obscure acronyms deemed unworthy of explanation, now the editors decide binary needs to be defined for the Slashdot audience.

    1. Re:Binary - A Number System With Only Two Digits by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      Binary - A Number (counting) System (way of doing) With Only Two (one more than one and one less than one more than one more than one) Digits (stick like things [above your waist] that are on your hands [digital things in your pants]).

  25. Whoopdie Freakin Doo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without electricity or plumbing, binary is just a waste of numerals.

  26. That's not binary by Megane · · Score: 1

    But their special counting words are all decimal numbers multiplied by powers of two, which are 1, 2, 4, 8 . Specifically, takau equals 10; paua equals 20; tataua, 40; and varu, 80.

    That's not binary, it's BCD.

    --
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  27. How fitting by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    One of the researchers describing the Polynesian binary system is named Bender.

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  28. That would be cool! by edibobb · · Score: 1

    Did they use 2's complements like we do? How did they handle their floating point operations? Alas, it's a cruel trick. If you read the article, you'll see some brainless twits are hyping this otherwise legitimate paper, and the Mangarevans didn't really use binary math. They just multiplied by 2.

  29. co-inventor? by glwtta · · Score: 1

    Not a nit that I would pick on any other site, but Leibniz invented/discovered calculus independently.

    --
    sic transit gloria mundi
    1. Re:co-inventor? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but slightly later right? That pattern seems to happen a lot in science.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    2. Re:co-inventor? by glwtta · · Score: 1

      From what I remember, yes, his work was slightly later, but he also published it earlier. Stands to reason that this would happen a lot - the only alternative is that different people discover something at the exact same time.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
  30. Humpf...so what? by bradley13 · · Score: 1

    From TFA: "But their special counting words are all decimal numbers multiplied by powers of two, which are 1, 2, 4, 8 . Specifically, takau equals 10; paua equals 20; tataua, 40; and varu, 80."

    So, when working with large quantities, they tended to double things. One heap, two heaps, four heaps. (A) That's not binary math, that's just groupings that they found convenient. The fact that ancient traders introduced 12 and 60 as convenient grouping (because they can be easily subdivided) doesn't mean that anyone ever did base-12 or base-60 arithmetic.

    Another sociologist looking for a quick paper to boost the all-important publication count.

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  31. They are the superior race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I once read us average Polynesian islander males worked less than five hours a week while the average European male works over 80 hours per week between work and work at home including shopping. We are superior to you Europeans by a factor of 16.

  32. Website by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Link to the website of the game, which was made by the group for computer-oriented theretical physics at the university of Oldenburg:

    http://www.compphys.uni-oldenburg.de/61306.html

    Philipp

  33. Evidence suggests... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That it's at least 1,000,000,000 years old.

  34. Re:Europeans used binary before Liebniz or Polynes by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    2 cups = 1 pint

    Or, 1 pint = a rather nonsensical 20 oz. Which is true for the imperial pint. Goodness knows why. Then it holds, so an imperial gallon is still 8 imperial pints.

    The Scots had their own similar system too with another whole raft of funny names.

    A Scottish Pint (a Joug) is apparently 4 mutchkins or 2 chopins.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  35. Polynesians DIDN'T invent binary by ananyo · · Score: 1

    http://www.nature.com/news/polynesian-people-used-binary-numbers-600-years-ago-1.14380
    >>Cognitive scientist Rafael Nuñez at the University of California, San Diego, points out that the idea of binary systems is actually older than Mangarevan culture. “It can be traced back to at least ancient China, around the 9th century bc”, he says, and it can be found in the I Ching, a millennia-old Chinese text that inspired Leibniz. Nuñez adds that “other ancient groups, such as the Maya, used sophisticated combinations of binary and decimal systems to keep track of time and astronomical phenomena. Thus, the cognitive advantages underlying the Mangarevan counting system may not be unique.”

  36. Poor Leibniz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Leibniz can't get a break, can he? First that rat bastard Newton climbs up on the shoulders of giants and steals his thunder on the discovery of Calculus, and now the Polynesians come along and claim the invention of binary math for themselves!

  37. "may have" - pretty big weasel words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They "may have" traveled to other galaxies and used telepathy, too. If you use weasel words you can say anything.

  38. twoness versus binary by peter303 · · Score: 1

    A binary counting system is infinitely extensible. English plus both other language have plenty of "two idioms" in them that reflect out bilateral bodies or interaction with just one other person. For example a pair of pants, shoes, glasses. These idioms make sense in the singular. I hear some Semetic languages have gramatical cases just for twoness. For example a word for "our" just for couples.

  39. Re:Europeans used binary before Liebniz or Polynes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2 cups = 1 girl

  40. as a Hawaiian... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's really not that remarkable that my ancesters invented binary...to this day, we can only count to 1.

  41. next you will be telling me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that a-rabs invented numbers

  42. Re:Europeans used binary before Liebniz or Polynes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    actually its girl(s) not gill(s)

  43. Not Base-3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's still Binary, with the addition of SQL-like NULLS.

  44. They were two millenia late to the party. by Eric+Smith · · Score: 1

    There are several algorithms using the binary number system, including left-to-right binary exponentiation, in Pingala's Chanda-sutra, before 200 BCE. Knuth's _The Art of Computer Programming, Volume 2: Seminumerical Algorithms_ cites B. Datta and A.N. Singh's 1935 _History of Hindu Mathematics 1_. Also al-Kashi described the right-to-left binary exponentiation algorithm in 1427 CE.