Standardized Laptop Charger Approved By IEC

Sockatume writes "The IEC, the standards body which wrote the phone charger specification used in the EU, has approved a standardised laptop charger. While the 'DC Power Supply for Portable Personal Computer' doesn't have a legal mandate behind it, the IEC is still optimistic that it will lead to a reduction in electronics waste and make it easier to find a replacement charger. Unfortunately the technical documentation does not seem to be available yet, but previous comments indicate that it will be a barrel plug of some kind." I wish they'd push a yank-resistant and positive-connecting plug along the lines of Apple's MagSafe.

Comments

There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

On a magnetic yank resistant plug

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Zanadou]

But, what about on a plug resistant magnetic yank?

Re:There's probably patents involved

[noh8rz10]

can't use something like magsafe because all computer standards push the industry towards the lowest-common-denominator cheap component solution. This is from lobbying of all companies. Thus the "benefit" to consumers is cheap products. no wonder apple stands alone and garners 90%+ of profits in the personal computer space.

Hint to manufacturers: there's a portion of the market that likes nice things, or at least not bottom-of-the-barrel cheap things.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[tysonedwards]

There is a single patent on the connector, filed September 26, 2005 and issued December 25, 2007.
In 2001 UL created and released to market - as a standard enforced by the US Consumer Product Safety Commission - a magnetic reversible plug for use on electric fryers that would disconnect if pulled.

Apple's offering is technically different in the sense that the cord can also "attach itself" to an electronic device, and where it will not provide power should it not be acted upon by another magnetic field.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Russ1642]

Manufacturers can put a yank resistant device just outside of the plug.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[mlts]

Wasn't there prior art, from a Japanese crock pot that had this technology initially?

What would be nice is to not just have power, but to have data and video on this connector. That way, one can have Thunderbolt, HDMI 2, power, 2-3 lanes of USB 3.5, 1-2 lanes of USB 2.0 (for keyboards and HIDs), and of course GigE or 10GigE, all on the same wire.

Of course, with the space freed up on the device with this one port doing virtually everything, maybe device makers might start putting back the Kensington lock slot. It won't stop a determined thief, but it does deal with the casual/opportunistic snatching.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Nerdfest]

I'm actually quite surprised someone hasn't challenged that one yet.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[brianwski]

In a another example, my HP Veer Smartphone (it's the Palm Pre line) has a magnetic charging cable that can ALSO carry data and audio!

Seriously, the HP Veer hardware was nicely designed, but the software is a train wreck. I still can't understand how the iPhone doesn't have a MagSafe recharge option, but my HP Veer does?

Re:There's probably patents involved

[brianwski]

HP Veer Smartphone (Palm Pre line) had a MagSafe connector that had data transfer: http://www.all4cellular.com/product/hp-veer-4g-usb-cable.html

You can still buy this phone and connector. The phone software is TERRIBLE, but the hardware was innovative and well designed.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

no wonder apple stands alone and garners 90%+ of profits in the personal computer space.

Please try to get accurate statistics. 45% is more like it, and that's profits, not operating revenue, which is more important.

Hint to manufacturers: there's a portion of the market that likes nice things, or at least not bottom-of-the-barrel cheap things.

And they're quite happy to screw you out of your money with companies like Alienware. Not to mention companies like EVGA and Corsair with their high-end model lines.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[slim]

A Yank resistant plug might do well in Europe and Asia, but I think most manufacturers wouldn't want to alienate the American market.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[jandrese]

They're probably waiting a couple more years before surfacing and suing Apple for a Billion dollars.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[weilawei]

It's the plug resistant magnetic brits that are the real challenge.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

And they're quite happy to screw you out of your money with companies like Alienware. Not to mention companies like EVGA and Corsair with their high-end model lines.

At least with high end components you generally get better performance. In the case of some "high end" manufacturers you get a high end pricetag and a white case with rounded corners that won't run your software.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[kelemvor4]

In 2001 UL created and released to market - as a standard enforced by the US Consumer Product Safety Commission - a magnetic reversible plug for use on electric fryers that would disconnect if pulled.

Emphasis mine. Yep, our patent system is that bad.

Until people start cooking with their apple computers I suspect apple is going to be okay.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Imagix]

All in the space of a connector the size of your thurmb...

Re:There's probably patents involved

[jeffmflanagan]

Yep, my Dell charger has an easily disconnected connector a few inches from the barrel that plugs into the laptop. Yank the cord, and this connector parts, leaving the laptop on the desk when tripping on a cable.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[kelemvor4]

A Yank resistant plug might do well in Europe and Asia, but I think most manufacturers wouldn't want to alienate the American market.

In America we're Americans. We're only "Yanks" to foreigners. Most Americans would probably not make the connection. No connection, nothing to yank. Problem solved.
I guess it does sound simmilar to "yankee" which is a slur against denizens of the northeastern US.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Aaden42]

Lemme dig up my original Core Duo Mac Book Pro. Pretty sure you could roast meat on that thing when it got cooking. At least roasted my leg a couple of times when the cores hit 99C!

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

Given that most Yanks are not magnetic, I don't think it would be too much of an issue.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[weilawei]

I'm an American and that seemed pretty obvious to me. Then again, there's no shortage of people using the term on this site. I'm also from Mass, and it doesn't seem like a slur to me. Hell, we call ourselves massholes.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[weilawei]

But how many are plug-resistant?

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

Zojirushi rice cookers have had these for decades, not sure where the patent-ness is.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[MrNemesis]

Bill Hicks and George Carlin were both heavily plug-resistant yet magnetic personalities, but are sadly no longer with us :(

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen more complex connectors... a dock connector for most laptops has far more pins.

Worst case, mux the lines.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[johnlcallaway]

Sadly, too many people spend too much money on 'high end' because they use the concept 'looks cool' instead of 'meets ones needs' when making purchasing decisions. Or don't look at what they give up (i.e. options, competition) when they use only one vendor because they want to be unique like everyone else that buys it.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I had meant to cover that later, that's why I separated my remarks on Alienware from the one on EVGA and Corsair, but hit submit without realizing I hadn't put it in.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

You do? So USB connectors work better than more plebian ones? Oh well.

Full disclosure: I have K&N stickers on my honda civic hf.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Eunuchswear]

Given the American facination with prison rape I suspect very few of them are plug resistant.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet you threw a huge fit when phone chargers all turned into USB.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[wonkey_monkey]

One of these would make it Yank resistant.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Wootery]

I guess it does sound simmilar to "yankee" which is a slur against denizens of the northeastern US.

It always struck me as odd that that word made its way into the NATO phonetic alphabet.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, I mean, some of them give you track pads that work, good keyboards, ultra-high resolution screens, high end hardware, batteries that last as long as they claim, yank resistant power cables, and decent hardware; while others simply pack in a graphics card that gets too hot to cool, and a battery that lasts an hour, and call it high end.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Entropius]

I had a loaner 2010 Macbook for work. It did what lots of modern laptops do and had a dual-GPU system: a Radeon when you need acceleration, and integrated graphics when you don't. Thing was, you couldn't toggle the Radeon off, and it made beanheaded decisions about when acceleration was necessary... like anything with Flash. You'd be sitting there dicking around in a web browser, and all of a sudden toast yourself as the fans whirred up and the battery life plummeted because some dumbshit web ad wanted you to punch the monkey and ol' Stevie J's OS decided that you needed the GPU's help to do it.

(On my Linux/Windows system, the CPU or the Intel integrated GPU are more than capable of telling me about punching monkeys, or doing video decodes.)

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Entropius]

Northeastern Americans are immune from insults since they practice on each other all the time; it's like pissing in an ocean of piss, to quote 4chan.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[weilawei]

One of these would make it plug resistant!

Re:There's probably patents involved

[jimicus]

Hint to manufacturers: there's a portion of the market that likes nice things, or at least not bottom-of-the-barrel cheap things.

There is, but when you've spent thirty years turning PCs into commodity items the habits become ingrained and hard to change.

Then you discover that the word "commodity" has a number of connotations, most of which are pretty bad for your business.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

apple stands alone and garners 90%+ of profits in the personal computer space.

Citation needed.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[phayes]

The veer contacts are exposed and you have the USB standard 5v live & unshielded. In the magsafe connector, the contacts don't go live until the connector determines that the magnetic connection has been established & the potentially dangerous 16.5v contacts are not exposed.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

OR shock horror, it is the better product and actually suits their needs.

I hope you bought an OSS TV, Microwave, Car, etc etc etc because they too all have proprietary hardware/software.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Lightning McQueen]

The OP was referencing Apple as an example. I agree that Apple is a solid example of his argument. I disagree with you in your all encompassing statement that people buy Apple because 'looks cool'. I've not met anyone who spends their hard earned cash this way. Folks I know purchase the products because they work very well and require the least amount of maintenance from the user.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[noh8rz10]

You called me on it, and I goofed. It was 45%. They also took 55% of cell phone profits, used to be 80% back in 2011. The point still holds, apple dominates even with a small market share.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/16/apple-pc-profits-dediu/
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-and-samsung-take-109-of-the-smartphone-industries-profits-2013-11

Re:There's probably patents involved

[noh8rz10]

no wonder apple stands alone and garners 90%+ of profits in the personal computer space.

Please try to get accurate statistics. 45% is more like it, and that's profits, not operating revenue, which is more important.

many people disagree, including investers, which is why apple is up like 20x in the past 10 years while dell liquidated and returned the remaining cash to the shareholders.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, then Apple can get their patent a part of the requirement for creating a computer and rake in the money! Just like Samsung's FRAND patents!

Oh, hang on, scratch that, Apple's fans have argued that if you have a required patent to enter a market, then you don't have to pay patent licenses.

Nah, it'll be good: Apple won't have to do as they say you have to, so it's golden.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[noh8rz10]

I bet you threw a huge fit when phone chargers all turned into USB.

no, because I use apple's lightning connector. It's much more durable, can be connected in either orientation, and handles data faster. I think it's sad when a govt like EU thinks they know what's best for everybody and try to mandate a solution that the market and consumers don't want. nanny govt at its finest.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[noh8rz10]

Folks I know purchase the products because they work very well and require the least amount of maintenance from the user.

I think this is the most important statement in this thread. I use apple for my personal computer, and the thing I love best is how it how it respects my time. there is near zero maintenance / fiddling tasks. it seems that fiddling is a big part of Linux because its a hobbyist thing, and for windows its just a chore. with kids my own personal time is a big premium and I can put it elsewhere.

things go seriously to sh!t I just make an apt at the apple store and they help me right there.
no judgment on others who choose to allocate their personal time differently. Just saying this is my biggest win with the apple PCs.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[tibit]

There's this thing called aesthetics. It's often a matter of personal taste, even. Basically you're saying that when it comes to computing, personal preferences and taste be damned. Now go crawl back under the rock you came out from under.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[SuperKendall]

You do realize there is software to let you manually decide to use the integrated or discrete GPU, right?

Re:There's probably patents involved

[lgw]

Apple sells electronic fashion accessories. It's a great business, but automatically it can't be the standard, because they sell the feeling of "being smarter/better than the standard". If some EU directive forces some parts of Apple products to be standard, then don't worry, Apple will find some other way to distinguish itself from the common user.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

What if you include the phrase "on the internet" to the end of it?!?!

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

For foreigners, a "yankee" is an American.
For American southerners, a "yankee" is a northerner.
For northerners, a "yankee" is somebody from New England.
For New Englanders, a "yankee" is somebody from Vermont.
For Vermonters, a "yankee" is somebody who eats apple pie for breakfast.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Em Adespoton]

Apple sells electronic fashion accessories. It's a great business, but automatically it can't be the standard, because they sell the feeling of "being smarter/better than the standard". If some EU directive forces some parts of Apple products to be standard, then don't worry, Apple will find some other way to distinguish itself from the common user.

I disagree... Apple sells electronic fashion appliances, not accessories They license the accessory market to others, as it's not as profitable. Their stuff is designed to just work as designed, with minimal time spent by the consumer trying to get it working as described.

This appliance model doesn't just show up in their hardware (Macs, phones, audio players, DST boxes, mice, keyboards, etc) but also in a lot of the hardware and software components (including things like the AAC standard they helped design and push to market).

All that said though, you're right in your last statement -- if some EU directive forces some parts of Apple products to be standard, they're going to push for it to be THEIR standard, with royalties going to them (often through some working group they're a member of). And they'll find other things that distinguish them in the market -- most likely by using that appliance mentality again instead of the "feature list" mentality that drives many electronics vendors.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[AbsGeekNZ]

16.5V is not dangerous. Unless you lick the contacts....not recommended.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to interrupt your rant, but yank-resistant cords are a cheap gee-wiz feature we'd see a lot more of if they were more popular. PC Laptop manufacturers aren't that stressed about cutting costs, there's miles of headroom between the bottom of the market and apple's position. Among people who buy PC Laptops, the connection-resistant, I mean conduction-resistant, I mean yank-resistant cable doesn't score that well.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[theqmann]

please tell, I'm interested

Re:There's probably patents involved

[rjstanford]

Voltage has nothing to do with it. Amperage, now, that's what'll kill you (or just barely tickle you, depending).

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Entropius]

There were options: 1) use discrete GPU all the time, 2) auto-switching.

I don't know if there was third-party software to do this; I rather feel like I shouldn't need third party software to stop the machine from quadrupling the power use and roasting me whenever I watch a Youtube video. My solution was to tell my work that I didn't need the loaner laptop any more, since I would be purchasing a standard one of my own, and installing Kubuntu on it.

Re: There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

Google is an all apple shop ... Are you calling them stupid? Guess they are stupid in your books.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[AmiMoJo]

Actually it was probably above 99C. The C2D sensor reported an offset below a fixed point, which on mobile versions was often 100C. An offset of 1 (I.e. 99C) was the highest it could report, even if the cores were hotter.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried to explain this to my Lenovo sales representative when I informed him we would no longer be purchasing Thinkpads, it went something like shit: "If you're going to make shit notebooks like Dell, we're going to buy Dells because they are cheaper."

It didn't result in any positive feedback.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[phayes]

80watts at 18.5v and exposed contacts... It'd be a major fire hazard. You do understand that people die during fires, right?

Re:There's probably patents involved

[AmiMoJo]

USB is supposed to provide 120W and data at some point. Doesn't seem to have happened yet but yhr original plan was to run laptops from it.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[dwater]

I find the opposite - or I should say 'found' since I'm not longer an Apple customer.
I have had some 'hand-me-downs' from friends who seem to have come to the same conclusion (ie they're free) and so I have had cause to still attempt maintenance of same. Going to an Apple store is a chore too...*far* too long a queue, and you need to make an appointment (that bit is ok, if you can wait). That is, of course, if you have an Apple store near enough to go to.

Thanks goodness for choice :)

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Grishnakh]

it seems that fiddling is a big part of Linux because its a hobbyist thing, and for windows its just a chore.

You've obviously never used a modern Linux distro like Mint. Except for doing updates and making backups (which you have to (or should) do on any OS), there isn't any "fiddling" necessary.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[Grishnakh]

Spoken by someone who has zero understanding of Ohm's Law or electricity in general.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[dwater]

flamebate? seriously?

Re: There's probably patents involved

[Anonymous Coward]

The EU is not a government, it likes to think it is but it is a Union. It does dictate that certain items must be uniform to increase the transferability of products under the Single Market. But it still copes with two types of plugs and two voltages so a universal power supply will have to take in account all of those before being allowed to be sold under the auspices of the unelected European Commission... hidden rant there.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[johnlcallaway]

I don't recall writing anything about OSS. But, to fall for your troll, I buy Windows and Linux products because I can legally install them on computers I build. Apple won't let you do that. I buy Android because of the many different proprietary hardware platforms it runs on. I can swap out any part I want on my car if I want to and buy parts from many different vendors. I don't need do those things on the TV or microwave.

Your comparison is petulant and irrelevant.

Apple hasn't made better products for years, it now only makes different products. Better is subjective and nothing about any Apple product makes them superior over others in the same category. Just better in the eyes of some people who have different values.

I guess if someone thinks 'better' is the same as 'looks pretty', 'makes me look cool', and 'overpriced', Apple has filled that niche. Just about the only niche it has filled, since in every other category they are not the market leader by a long shot.

Re:There's probably patents involved

[johnlcallaway]

Really?? My Android works well and doesn't require any maintenance. So does my computer. I agree that Apple products work well, but I've heard enough horror stories about upgrades, inability to swap out batteries, expensive repair costs, and other items to doubt the actual truth in that statement. Heard horror stories about MS and Android too, so at best it's an even swap.

Purchasing because of the perception that somehow Apple products need less maintenance or work better than anything else I agree with. People often forge their own realities when rationalizing spending too much money on something.

I remember my daughter buying an iPhone because of the 'cool' zoom feature. Her next phone purchase was an Android phone because it was cheaper, had the same capabilities, and far more choices. She had seen me use mine and couldn't find any reason to pay more. She has been an Android user ever since, and doesn't even consider iPhones any more. My wife went through the same thing with Nano and iTouch and refuses to ever buy Apple products because of the crappy DRM and difficulty in using iTunes. She prefers her big and clunky Creative Labs music player because it just works. She loves her Galaxy Note because of the big screen.

Maybe one day Apple will get smart and realize hardware is a commodity and let people run their software on any hardware they want to.

patented

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't use MagSafe because it's an Apple innovation. It took a major stroke of genius to put a fryer plug on a laptop.

Re:patented

[Hadlock]

And yet the Pogo charger performs the same function with the same magnetic disconnect mode. It's used by a handful of top tier tablets and phones, but clearly someone has found a loophole in Apple's patent for the connector, as it's functionally identical.

Re:patented

[serviscope_minor]

but clearly someone has found a loophole in Apple's patent for the connector, as it's functionally identical

I haven't had a change to look at this Pogo connector. If they managed to make the design much closer to the original fryer plug then they could license that. If it is close enough to the old patent they could easily (ha!) claim that the Apple patent doesn't cover it.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone successfully makes a claim that a similar function can't be achieved in a different manner. (That is, the patent hinders development rather than encouraging innovation.) then the patent can be invalidated on those grounds.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

You haven't had a change? WTF.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

It's interesting actually... I genuinely wondered why you don't get mildly electrocuted when you touch the completely exposed connectors end of it, until I actually saw what they'd patented: What they've patented is that it won't provide power until it's acted on by exactly the right magnetic field to indicate that it's plugged into the laptop already.

At least for me, that passes all the tests of non-obviousness and first people to think of it.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try, Samsung!

Re:patented

[jeffmflanagan]

> genuinely wondered why you don't get mildly electrocuted when you touch the completely exposed connectors end of it

Why would you expect to get mildly electrocuted by a low-power DC plug? The only danger w/o the magnetic control is that you'd fry the charger by shorting the plug.

Re:patented

[Eunuchswear]

Yup, it's part of the patent - only trannies are allowed to examine the hardware.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

If *you* as a casual AC on /. have "genuinely wondered why you don't get mildly electrocuted" then don't you think any elecrical engineer would also thing "hmm, exposed contacts = short risk ... hmm, how do I stop it shorting. Hmm, this is magnetic, wonder if I can use that".

Yeah, totally non-obvious.

Patents successfully prevent yet another incremental improvement for the consumer.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

Not if you have short circuit protection.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

24VDC isn't enough to penetrate the skin unless it is wet.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

Except Apple doesn't do that.
PSU first outputs 5V current-limited at 50uA. Laptop has a 39kR resistor across the power/ground pins. PSU senses its output getting pulled down to 1.95V, switches full output on. DC/DC in laptop sees the voltage increase and activates.
Notice the complete lack of magnets and/or digital communication involved.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason you don't get zapped is because it's such a low voltage. Detecting that it's plugged in doesn't do anything extra to protect you from getting shocked. Detecting that it's plugged in doesn't even need to require magnetic sensing, and another poster seems to be confirming this.

If there was any risk of shock, it would not be designed with exposed metal pins that you could touch with a finger, instead, the end of the cord would have deep socket contacts like the IEC female plug end of power cords used for most monitors, PCs, printers, etc.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't everyone use their tongue on ``low-power DC plugs'' ?

Re:patented

[tibit]

You won't get mildly electrocuted by a plug with 16V potential difference across it. Even if you're very wet with seawater, you might feel a slight tingle at best. The potential to Earth is at worst in the same ballpark, if it isn't potential-free to Earth to start with (as in isolated from Earth).

Re:patented

[tibit]

There's no such thing as "penetrating the skin". You will always get some current flowing, even if you "touch" the skin across a circuit that has a few millivolts across it - it will simply be too small to affect your nervous system, in most circumstances. The impedance of the circuit dictates what the current will be at a given voltage, and it's the magnitude of the current that matters. Knowing merely the voltage without knowing the impedance is fairly useless. 24V can kill you if you insert the electrodes into the (low impedance) arteries of both forearms :) 48V, a "safe" voltage, can be quite unpleasant if you're wet, even more so if you're wet with saltwater.

Re:patented

[Roger W Moore]

It's interesting actually... I genuinely wondered why you don't get mildly electrocuted when you touch the completely exposed connectors end of it

For the same reason that you don't get "mildly electrocuted" from the exposed terminals of a battery or when kids play with Scalextrix or model trains both of which have lots of exposed metal with an electrical potential between them. Your body's electrical resistance is large enough that a small DC voltage is not enough to drive a current large enough that you would notice it.

The disabling of the power unless it it plugged in is more probably to prevent the magnets making the plug stick onto a metal surface and short out the supply which would likely blow some internal fuse that would not be trivial to replace.

Re:patented

[RobertLTux]

yah you would need blood contact to even get a "Buzz" from that kind of voltage and you wouldn't be dancing the Tesla until you had the current cross your heart.

Re:patented

[Solandri]

Most laptop AC adapters put out 19 V DC, though some of the ultralights use 12 V DC adapters. Current is voltage / resistance. The resistance of your body from your finger to your feet, and the low voltage limits the current that'll flow through your body. You're as likely to feel this as you are if you held both contacts on a 12 V battery (which is to say, not at all). The 9V battery on your tongue has a much lower resistance to deal with (both an electrolyte bath and a much shorter distance to travel), so generates enough current to create a tingle in your tongue.

POTS phone lines run power at 5 V DC, but the ring signal is generated by increasing the voltage. The spec is to bump the voltage up to 20 or 30 V DC (it's been a while since I worked with these). But many systems would exceed spec and crank it up to 60 V or more. Those would give you a nasty shock if you were working on the line when someone made a call. Not enough to injure you, but enough to leave your hand and arm tingling for a few seconds.

But yeah, you're not gonna electrocute yourself by touching the two DC leads coming from an AC adapter.

Re:patented

[Anonymous Coward]

Quoting tysonedwards (969693) above:

There is a single patent on the connector, filed September 26, 2005 and issued December 25, 2007.
In 2001 UL created and released to market - as a standard enforced by the US Consumer Product Safety Commission - a magnetic reversible plug for use on electric fryers that would disconnect if pulled.

Looks like they already made one, but it is for a distinct usage and likely isn't so great for laptops (guessing it may be on the large side).

Re:patented

[rjstanford]

And yet nobody did; everyone tried "security through obscurity" and buried it in a deep connector.

Many if not most inventions are obvious after you've seen them.

Re:patented

[petermgreen]

POTS phone lines run power at 5 V DC, but the ring signal is generated by increasing the voltage. The spec is to bump the voltage up to 20 or 30 V DC (it's been a while since I worked with these).

Do you have a source for that claim

My understanding was that POTS lines were about 48V DC idle with the phone on hook, dropping to about 10V-20V when the phone is off hook and with an 90V or so AC voltage superimposed on the DC voltage during ringing.

Re:patented

[mysidia]

At least for me, that passes all the tests of non-obviousness and first people to think of it.

I would not agree... Magnet + Exposed pins are a combination of previously known elements. A connector of your size and shape should be patentable, together with your exact placement of circuits, but not the concept of using magnets and magnetic switches; which are all previously known elements.

When faced with the problem of making a connector that will give way if yanked, yet not fall out on its own --- magnetic attraction is an obvious choice.

After analyzing the design or testing, and finding the damage or shock risk of the pins becoming shorted on a metal object --- the choice to limit when the power is switched on is also obvious.

Again, to maintain the yank-resistant characteristics, you need to switch the power on without relying on physical mating ---- a magnetic switch, or magnetic sensor on the plug are obvious choices.

I haven't even read Apple's patent; I have no idea how their connector works, but I see an obvious choice is to have a circuit in the power transformer block measuring the electrical characteristics of one of the leads, to decide when to switch on power, based on detecting the right signal OR "magnetic field" (if you like).

Re:patented

[mysidia]

Many if not most inventions are obvious after you've seen them.

It's not invention; it's innovation. A "social" leap by Apple, not a technical one.

The fact of the matter; is "security through obscurity" was just fine, as far as the big players thought. The current design was just fine; no need to worry about that, buy the generic part and focus on other stuff.

They were out of touch with the consumer ---- they didn't acknowledge the "yank" problem existed. Just buy the generic connector parts and move on: It would be a waste of money, to go throw together a new fancy connector.

It's not that the connector design was not obvious; they would have easily built a connector with the similar design, without any significant difficulty or need to make an invention step --- they were not motivated to solve the yank problem in the first place.

Re:patented

[mysidia]

You won't get mildly electrocuted by a plug with 16V potential difference across it.

Actually... this depends on amperage and duration of exposure; You can take a static discharge of thousands of volts, under the right conditions, and not feel anything.

In the very worst case (car battery/hand to hand) 12 Volts DC across the chest can kill and has killed people --- exposure long enough to disrupt the normal heartbeat can kill.

6 Volts at 50 amps or 3 Volts at 400 amps can be deadly with only brief exposure.

Don't bet your life on your power supply being perfectly within spec either.

Electricity; DC or AC apparatus that can generate current over a period of time is nothing to be trifled with, even if 16V.

Re:patented

[mdielmann]

So, for you non-obvious is the combination of a flat power connector and a child-safe lock. Yes, I'm sure there are minor differences, much like there are between a state-of-the-art tumbler lock and one from ancient history, but that doesn't make it unrecognizable or non-obvious to an expert in the field.

Re:patented

[AmiMoJo]

A digital 1 wire handshake would work too. The EU should just have gone with it and told any patent claims to fuck off, for the greater good.

Fingers crossed

[Sockatume]

Hopefully the source article won't be quietly edited after-the-fact so that I look like a raging moron, as happened with my last submission. :/

Re:Fingers crossed

[denis-The-menace]

Must be nice to have that problem.

I've been here ~10+years and my subs NEVER get posted.

Re:Fingers crossed

[Simon Brooke]

You're complaining? I've been here fifteen years, and I've never had a submission accepted either!

Re:Fingers crossed

[NoImNotNineVolt]

Meanwhile I'm a relative newcomer and I'm 1/1 with my COIN "slashvertisement" submission. After I submitted, I noticed a nearly-identical submission preceding mine in the firehose. Amusingly, it's mine that made it to the front page.

When I emailed the COIN folks to let them know they made it to slashdot's front page, I didn't even get so much as a "Cool, thanks!". Now I wish I had started spamming my referral URL in the comments :P

Re:Fingers crossed

[RevWaldo]

You're lucky! I've been here thirty years and the first time I submitted an article CowboyNeal slashed me to death with a bread knife!

.

Re:Fingers crossed

[weilawei]

You're complaining? When my grandpappy was a boy, he had to walk uphill, both ways, in the snow just to send a submission by pony express and he never got accepted once!

Re:Fingers crossed

[whoever57]

You're complaining? I've been here fifteen years, and I've never had a submission accepted either!

I have had multiple submissions accepted and rejected, but the one thaat really rankles, is the one in which I took the time to write some new text to describe the article, then someone else copy/pasted my text into another submission that got accepted in place of mine.

Re:Fingers crossed

[Hognoxious]

One of mine did, but it had Rotund Priquepull's name on it.

Re:Fingers crossed

[weilawei]

You know, that suggests an awfully easy way to get a submission accepted, if such is your goal in life...

Re:Fingers crossed

[David_W]

That's because he didn't have an onion on his belt, which was the style at the time.

Re:Fingers crossed

[Em Adespoton]

You're complaining? I've been here fifteen years, and I've never had a submission accepted either!

I have had multiple submissions accepted and rejected, but the one thaat really rankles, is the one in which I took the time to write some new text to describe the article, then someone else copy/pasted my text into another submission that got accepted in place of mine.

Yeah; I've had that happen too. I discovered that the rule is to watch the firehose closely, and time your submissions appropriately.

Re:Fingers crossed

[mcgrew]

You guys must not be submitting very good stories then. Roughly a third of my submissions were accepted. I've had the same problem as Socatume, but I've also had mistakes corrected before posting. Usually, though, they don't even bother reading it, if it's upvoted in the firehose they usually just post it without looking at it.

So Would Apple

[Kagato]

"I wish they'd push a yank-resistant and positive-connecting plug along the lines of Apple's MagSafe."

So would Apple since they have a patent on the MagSafe design. I suspect it would be quite the patent windfall.

Re:So Would Apple

[serviscope_minor]

So would Apple since they have a patent on the MagSafe design.

Perhaps they could use a design like on those Japanese domestic deep fat fryers instead.

Re:So Would Apple

[Sponge Bath]

Instead of using magnets (how do they work?), add a tiny vacuum pump to keep the connector in place. Add some attachments so the keyboard can be periodically hoovered for skin flakes, food bits and the dried remains of various body fluids. One small step for power connector security, one giant leap for computer hygiene.

Re:So Would Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Or the far more common Japanese water boilers...

Re:So Would Apple

[weilawei]

So, to eliminate waste of one kind, we're going to replace it with waste of another. Vacuum seals tend to leak over time, requiring you to run the pump periodically--especially if you want one loose enough to pull out when someone trips on the cord. Brilliant.

Re:So Would Apple

[drinkypoo]

So would Apple since they have a patent on the MagSafe design. I suspect it would be quite the patent windfall.

It would be easy to smash it across the EU on the basis of prior art and obviousness. There were already magnetic power connectors; I have a magnetically-attaching cord here which goes to a waffle iron which predates MagSafe. There were also already autonegotiating power connections before MagSafe. Putting the two together on any power cord is obvious and was only a matter of time. If the government wants the patent invalidated, it shall happen.

Re:So Would Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds unlikely, because those provide power whether they're plugged in or not, and hence would be an electrocution risk (unlike apple's design, who's patented functionality is not providing power until it detects the correct magnetic field to indicate it's plugged in).

Re:So Would Apple

[fermion]

This is the rub. Doing something innovative, like magsafe, takes time and is the exact sort of things that patents should protect. The nice thing about magsafe is that there is really no physical connection. It is not yank resistant, it is yank tolerant. Unlike barrel type adapters, there is not stress on the interface, stress that all too often means the device becomes damaged and a $1000 machine is ruined because of a $20 part.

The other thing is that magsafe cannot be only solution. We cannot be in a world where the only way to physically transfer power is a barrel plug and magsafe. The real problem is that there is just a great deal of incentive to keep charges non standard. Apple does this by coming up with a nifty and effective and useful interface. Everyone else just makes arbitrary changes.

And just because the question comes up, USB in not the answer. It is fragile connector except in the full size version.

Re:So Would Apple

[serviscope_minor]

not providing power until it detects the correct magnetic field to indicate it's plugged in

Fair enough. I wonder how much they patented. If the patent just magnetic based, then presumably you could add an extra pin and only switch on the PSU when you get the correct command over some 1 wire bus protocol.

Or do what the USB charger people do and only provide power if there's the correct resistance across some of the pins.

Re:So Would Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Electrocution risk? Seriously?

Apple's innovation is a cute idea, but if you're passing 20v through the plug (just looked at my laptop charger, 18.5v), you'd have to be doing something really weird with the plug to get electrocuted.

Re:So Would Apple

[weilawei]

20V under the right circumstances is more than enough to kill you. A static shock can be 10,000V and not do more than annoy you. The voltage isn't really important by itself until you get to around 500V and skin begins to break down--all that nice ionic fluid in your body is incredibly conductive. This is why it's the amps that do the trick. 20mA will happily kill you. 16mA at 60Hz is the maximum current a person can realistically let go of.

Re:So Would Apple

[Eunuchswear]

Apple does this by coming up with a nifty and effective and useful interface. Everyone else just makes arbitrary changes.

Magsafe vs Magsafe2?

Re:So Would Apple

[Meyaht]

micro shop-vac, suction @ power cord, discharge through keyboard cracks. gentle breeze under your fingers might be kindof soothing too. Especially if its winter and running over the processor.

Re:So Would Apple

[bill_mcgonigle]

Doing something innovative, like magsafe, takes time and is the exact sort of things that patents should protect.

Apple took the power connector used on most countertop deep fat fryers, did it "on a computer", got a 20 year monopoly for that, and *this* is the sort of thing that patents should protect?

Re:So Would Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, I get what you are saying, but the fact remains that someone did it. In the same way that they run laptops on 100W using a power adapter that is a fraction of the size of others. There is no reason that HP could not do, except they don't. It is the risk of doing something not traditional that makes the difference. It is like anyone being able to make an lightweight aluminum computer. Innovation is not always, or usually, originality. Most of what I have done in design in taking technology from another field and re purposing it to my needs.

Re:So Would Apple

[tibit]

It's not about electrocution risk, it's about the risk of blowing the gold off the connector's pins when you accidentally short-circuit them across, say, the corner of a unibody macbook. You do not want to have the low-impedance DC supply circuit energized until you know the connection has been made. The little spring-loaded pins are quite fragile, short-circuiting across them will make them useless in short order.

Alas, my magsafe I system doesn't turn the power supply off when the load is detached. You can still make some impressive sparks if you touch the connector to the corner of the machine, so this isn't really a feature of magsafe I at least.

Re:So Would Apple

[Em Adespoton]

20mA will happily kill you. 16mA at 60Hz is the maximum current a person can realistically let go of.

Hmm? I thought the issue with amperage was that with volumes of electrical current at certain levels, the nerve endings get flooded, causing muscle contraction. However, varying the frequency will vary how the current messes with your nervous system; a load above 20mA is just as likely to cause you to reflexively fling the connection away, or if the voltage is fast enough cause burns, or even result in heart seizure or stroke.

While 20mA will happily kill you, I've held a live 110VAC 60Hz 15A line, and the result was my hand being flung away from the contact point. 220VAC 60Hz at 30A on the other hand, would more than likely result in muscle seizures and likely clamping, eventually followed by death by one of the previously mentioned methods.

Re:So Would Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

If the laptop and user were rotated at an appropriate speed, the connector could be held in by centrifugal force.

Re:So Would Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Not exactly arbitrary; MagSafe 2 was introduced when MacBook Airs got so thin that the original MagSafe wouldn't fit. It was around for 6 years before that change was made (and Apple made a simple, small, and cheap adapter for people who want to use an old charger on a new device). That's a good deal different from most PC manufacturers, who seem to have a different connector for every model, and/or change it every year or two, and where cheap adapters rarely exist.

Re:So Would Apple

[immaterial]

There have been an (almost spam-level I'd say, except that even then it seems nobody noticed) number of posts here highlighting the differences in function between the previous connectors and Apple's method which made Apple's method patentable. There's nothing stopping anyone from making or using a magnetic connector that works like the deep-fry connectors, or in some other way different from the specific method Apple patented, because contrary to popular belief here patents are *specific* and don't cover anything and everything that might be hinted at by a vague summary (Apple patents magnetic connector? Oh my!). There have even been multiple posts pointing out the Pogo "magnector" and HP Veer magnetic charger as proof of that.

Re:So Would Apple

[petermgreen]

What really matters is both the ammount of current through the body and the path it takes. With shocks from low impedance sources (like the mains) the current through the body is determined by the supply voltage and the resistance of the body. So while voltage isn't the only factor it certainly does make a big difference. Double the supply voltage and you will double the current increasing the risk of the current being high enough to be fatal.

Voltages under about 50V (the exact limit varies by what regulatory body you look at) are classed as "extra low voltage" and generally regarded

220VAC 60Hz at 30A on the other hand, would more than likely result in muscle seizures and likely clamping, eventually followed by death by one of the previously mentioned methods.

I know plenty of people who have had shocks of UK 240V mains (heck i've had several myself when I was younger and less careful). It certainly can kill but it's not "certain death".

Re:So Would Apple

[mysidia]

Fair enough. I wonder how much they patented. If the patent just magnetic based, then presumably you could add an extra pin and only switch on the PSU when you get the correct command over some 1 wire bus protocol.

It would also be conceivable to put a "sheath" around the pin; that doesn't mate with anything, but prevents the bare pins from being exposed

Have a spring-loaded plunger switch that gets forced down when the device is properly plugged in, and power is stopped at the plug, until the switch is operated.

Or put another magnet on the connector side itself that operates a reed switch in the plug.

There are probably thousands of ways to sense "connector plugged in"; without using Apple's specific sensing circuit

Re:So Would Apple

[marka63]

It's very much dependent on the current path. Hand to foot and you have a good chance of survival. Hand to hand and your survival rate drops. Additionally whether you pick up the live object or brush the live object affects your survival rate.

Having brushed a live 240v connector with the back of my hand, and survived, I never want to do that again.

Mag-safe or nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, stop this antiquated shit.

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[Chris Mattern]

Because *everybody* should pay the Apple tax! It's only right!

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

Because people should be able to get quality hardware from more than one vendor. I'm tired of chassis that flex and get visible wear spots on their finish, inferior touch pads, crappy keyboards, flimsy chargers and plugs out of the 80s and crumby displays (I mean color/angle/contrast, not useless resolution) - because I *won't* pay the apple tax.

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

So what you're saying is "I want all these better things for free, it's not fair". Entitled much?

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[Sockatume]

Did it occur to you that the Apple "tax" is why their products don't have all that bad stuff? That it costs money to get a laptop CNCed out of an aluminium block and fitted with an IPS display, rather than a plastic slab with a TN one?

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

The bigger problem is: If company A has patented feature X, and company B has patented feature Y, and both don't license their technology, there's absolutely no way to get a device that has both X and Y, no matter how desirable it would be.

Patents (at least the non-trivial ones which actually are inventions, not just along the lines of "do this well-known thing with a computer") would be a lot less bad if any patent holder would be required to license the patent under non-discriminatory terms to any company that is willing to pay the license fee, which would have to be reasonable. This would still reward the inventor (because anyone using the feature has to pay him), but it would prevent the inventor having a monopoly on the feature, as well as "preventive patents" where something is patented not to market it, but to prevent it from coming to the market.

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[Entropius]

I have a $950 laptop with:

--a nice metal chassis (around the keyboard -- some parts that don't get much wear are tough plastic to save weight)
--a touchpad that works just fine, thank you
--a keyboard that also works just fine, thank you
--an old-style charger but one that is fairly tough
--a screen that is admittedly not wonderful, but there are nice replacement screens available for $50
--a very nice laptop GPU (GTX660 M)
--6+ hours battery life (GPU off, obviously)

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[AuMatar]

The mag safe plug is the worst piece of crap I've ever used. Anything placed on the desk touching the cord or knocking it would pull it out of the laptop. It would frequently "plug in" but not power the laptop. I'd never use one again, and would avoid another macbook just because of it. Well, it and the lack of an ethernet port requiring me to use an adaptor.

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[weilawei]

Those connectors suffer from the same problem as many others: inadequate strain relief. When new, they work just fine. But the magnet has nothing to do with failure to charge in that case. Also, those connectors cause you the annoyance of plugging it back in--instead of the annoyance of shelling out for another laptop. Take your pick.

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[lgw]

It's odd, I'm fairly clumsy and I've never tripped over a laptop power cord - is running power cords like tripwires really such a common thing?

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[weilawei]

You never know what you'll snare when you use your laptop cord to proper effect. You can trap small squirrels, or even trip the occasional moose!

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[lgw]

Now I want a moose-safe power connector!

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[danbob999]

Because people should be able to get quality hardware from more than one vendor. I'm tired of chassis that flex and get visible wear spots on their finish, inferior touch pads, crappy keyboards, flimsy chargers and plugs out of the 80s and crumby displays (I mean color/angle/contrast, not useless resolution) - because I *won't* pay the apple tax.

Chassis flex and visible wear spots are hardly a reason to replace a laptop.
I'd rater have 5% more performance than a nice-looking chassis that won't make me more productive.
Chargers are fine. I just wish they were standardized.

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[danbob999]

Let say a mag safe connector cost an extra $10 and a laptop cost $1000. Is there a 1% chance that I destroy my laptop because of not having a mag safe connector during its life time?

No. And it's not because I am especially careful.

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[weilawei]

Speak for yourself. I've tripped on my fair share of laptop cords (always with barrel plugs) and send the laptop to the ground. Luckily, no fatalities, yet. OTOH, I also don't buy $1000 laptops for the most part, as I've little need of a fancy graphics card (programmer here). My latest, a Thinkpad T60 was a $200 refurb. Works great.

Re:Mag-safe or nothing

[lgw]

So why do you spend the time to carefully sut up and conceal snares for yourself? Sport? Self-improvement? Lack of a $5 extension cord?

YES!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell has their own line of chargers and their laptops refuse to work with other chargers :(
Hopefully this will motivate Dell to accept the standard.

I hope it works

[fluffythdestroy]

Dell, HP, Alienware and other company will do anything in their power to not comply with this standard. This means less chance to get money out of customers pockets. Most companies, and I point DELL this time, uses a very much different exagonal type of connection which makes universal adapters a pain in the ass to find while others like HP and other old Dell laptops are usually easy to find and replace at a very cheap price. When it's not possible, you have to call the company to get a remplacement charger for a high enough price. But I would love to see a standard in this as it would make my job much easier

Re:I hope it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell, HP, Alienware and other company will do anything in their power to not comply with this standard. This means less chance to get money out of customers pockets.

Exactly, and this is why the EU fines companies for not complying with the standard.
In the end those companies will end up with the same amount of money out of the customers pockets but end up with a worse product compared to the competition.

Re:I hope it works

[UnknowingFool]

This is probably the same reason they won't fully adopt Thunderbolt. While there are some reasons like licensing and requirements, one major reason is that laptop docking stations make a lot of money and customers often need to buy new ones with newer models. Switching to a cable that is universal will make them less money.

Re:I hope it works

[tlhIngan]

Dell, HP, Alienware and other company will do anything in their power to not comply with this standard. This means less chance to get money out of customers pockets. Most companies, and I point DELL this time, uses a very much different exagonal type of connection which makes universal adapters a pain in the ass to find while others like HP and other old Dell laptops are usually easy to find and replace at a very cheap price. When it's not possible, you have to call the company to get a remplacement charger for a high enough price. But I would love to see a standard in this as it would make my job much easier

I wonder how the standard will work though? Laptops require all sorts of different supplies because they take lots of power.

I mean, I have a Dell laptop with a 200W adapter. Yes, 200W. And Apple sells laptops with 65/75/85W capabilities (though, it's really stupid to buy anything other than the 85W since they're all the same price and bulk).

And every other company has similar things going - the same barrel plug accommodates multiple adapters of different power capabilities.

And because of this, lots of voltages are involved - at 200W, you need to be around 25-30V, while at 90W, you can work with 20V. The big problem is ampacity - how much current a conductor can carry. The higher the voltage, the lower the current and thinner wires or less losses are (IIR losses - they rise with the square of the current!).

In fact, most chargers are "smart" in that they contain chips to communicate with the laptop on what kind of charger they are so the laptop can decide if it's appropriate - use a low-power adapter and the laptop may simply issue an error message, while one that's barely adequate tells the laptop to not charge the battery, and the proper one lets it charge and power the system.

I think this originated from airplane power - where it provides just enough to run most laptops, but not charge them (and depending on the plane, you can trip the seat socket if your laptop attempts to charge and draw more than 75W).

It's good to have a universal adapter. The question is - how universal is it? Will it work with my 200W demanding beast of a laptop? But then you'd be lugging a 10 pound brick (If you thought the Xbox360 adapter was large...) just to be able to charge your dainty ultrabook as well?

Re:I hope it works

[Kiwikwi]

Yup. Dell, at least, has an authentication chip in most of their chargers (the center pin in the typical Dell charger). The chip (or its wire) is invariably the first thing to break, and bam! laptop refuses to charge the battery, or even run the processor at full speed. This causes the weird behavior that the laptop speeds up when you switch to battery power. It also means that you have to ditch an otherwise fully functional charger.

The purpose of the chip is of course to prevent the charger from being overloaded, and not at all an attempt at extorting money from customers as well as frustrating third-party charger manufacturers.

Re:I hope it works

[richlv]

unfortunately, the drafts are not available (booo), but i would expect them to standardise connector + voltage. that way you could use lower-power charger to charge a lager device barely/slower, but at least somehow :)

Re:I hope it works

[Anonymous Coward]

It's really SIMPLE!

You buy a laptop and it is written on the back that it requires a 100W power supply.

You go online (or to the shop) and ask for a 100W universal power supply. The closest match they have is 105W. That's fine, you buy it and use it.

Customers are perfectly happy with the concept of power ratings and getting an adapter to match.

The only tricky thing is settling on a voltage standard. But seriously, I think convergence on 20V (or similar) is perfectly manageable.

Re:I hope it works

[Solandri]

Dell, HP, Alienware and other company will do anything in their power to not comply with this standard. This means less chance to get money out of customers pockets.

Actually, for laptops, I suspect it has less to do about profits, and more to do with simplifying the engineering design specs by having a single, known power source which puts out a specific voltage profile as you increase the amps drawn. We're not talking about a phone which draws a couple Watts at most and can be simultaneously charged and powered via a USB cable, so you can effectively use the battery as a power sink to even out the voltage variances. We're talking about devices whose power draw can range from about 5-10 Watts all the way up to 100 Watts. And not all AC adapters are equal at generating a clean DC current.

Re:I hope it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Alienware is Dell...

Re:I hope it works

[cthulhu11]

Do they? My sense in the last ten years or so has been that modern laptops provide a much more integrated/complete experience than in the past, and I haven't seen docks used much.

Re:I hope it works

[UnknowingFool]

Then you don't work with 24" monitors then. Also while a trackpad or nub is okay for some work, sometimes you want to use a mouse. Yes, you can plug these into your laptop but when you have to do it many times a day, it gets cumbersome.

yank resistant barrel connector

[Anonymous Coward]

Very easy to make a barrel connector yank resistant, just add a 10cm extender

That's great

[EthanBernard]

Just in time for laptop obsolescence.

Re:That's great

[bob_super]

I'm looking forward to lugging my desktop and 37-incher so I can compile where I'm needed?

Did you mean I have to use one of the beautiful tablets that so many websites are broken on?

Standardised DC, eh?

[serviscope_minor]

Well, let's see.

USB can deliver 2.5W. My big old luggable W510 has an adapter rated for (checks) holy crap 135W. To keep things standard we could charge it with 54 parallel USB cables, since things seem to be standardising on USB these days and multiple plugs where necessary.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[fluffythdestroy]

I'm not a big expert in electronics but I know laptops also needs amp and if theres not enough, it wont charge.so a usb connector usually has 500mA at 5v so it wont be enough to charge a laptop

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

depends on what version of USB, usb3.0 is ~5W, dedicated charger USB is ~7.5W, and USB3.1 has an optional 12V/20V 60W/100W

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[serviscope_minor]

USB3.1 has an optional 12V/20V 60W/100W

Holy crap. That would make me leery about using really cheap cables.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

To keep things standard we could charge it with 54 parallel USB cables, since things seem to be standardising on USB these days and multiple plugs where necessary.

It'll be called the Hydra Charging System, and to make sure you can charge ALL of your* lower power devices will come with two-plug splitter cables for each "head".

*And your friends devices. And their friends devices. And all of the devices at the festival...

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[mlts]

USB 3.5 has a completely different connector than legacy cables... one like Apple's Lightning connector that plugs in either way, and can handle a lot more wattage.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[weilawei]

What's 5A between friends? That means you likely want a 14 AWG. I've got an extension cord here rated for 30A at 300V...or 9kW (okay, I had to attach the plug/outlet myself, but still!) It's only moderate overkill, weighs about 20lbs. O:-)

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[bmxeroh]

Right, and W = V x I. So if we use 54 usb cables at 2.5 watts each ( or 500ma @ 5v) we get 135 watts, albeit 27 amps @ 5 volts DC. Better have some decent size wire. Also, it was a joke so queue wooshing sound.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[PolygamousRanchKid]

My big old luggable W510 has an adapter rated for (checks) holy crap 135W.

A W520 adapter weighs in at 170W . . . and weighs almost as much as the W520 itself! I'm expecting Lenovo to reach a crossover point, where the adapter weighs much more than the laptop itself.

I guess my new W550 down the road sometime will have an over 200W adapter . . .

I doubt that there will be any standardized adapters for us folks in the Monster Laptop Truck range . . .

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[weilawei]

With optional 54-1 USB->barrel connector, only $39.99.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[serviscope_minor]

With optional 54-1 USB->barrel connector, only $39.99.

Heathen. I value my quality so I'll take the Monster version for $599.99.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[dcooper_db9]

As noted by others, USB 3 supports up to 100 watts. It's reasonable to expect lightweight devices to charge at less than 100 watts, especially if you're willing to charge longer.

http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you queue a sound?

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[weilawei]

You must really hate listening to albums.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[kirillart]

I think they overengineered it a bit.. I use Antec 90W slim power supply instead of 170W uberbrick for my W530 for few months without issues. Needed to create a custom plug though.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[Pentium100]

Or do like it was done with old laptops and include the power supply in the laptop. Then the connector could be a standard 230V one.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[toddestan]

It's probably rated for the laptop running at 100% CPU, while charging the battery, screen at 100% brightness, extra hard drive in the Ultrabay, and a few devices hanging off the USB ports. I've connected my laptop up to a Kill-a-watt and found that most of the time it's well below the rating on the power adapter, and this is on the wall side too.

Re:Standardised DC, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, that's understandable.
However real life load rarely exceeds 90W. Games (I play Fallour New Vegas) rarely stress CPU and at office I rarely stress my GPU (doing mostly compilation tasks on CPU). I can play Fallout with empty battery charging, power drawn from socket is ~90W. Once battery is charged, power usage stays around 70W.

Wireless charging..

[Anonymous Coward]

..is the future. Toss the cables I say!

I was hoping for MagSafe

[zoffdino]

Everyone here chides Apple for putting a deep fryer plug on a laptop and get a patent for it. Truth is, if they don't, someone else will and sue the heck out of them for it. If it was so obvious, why haven't anyone thought about it before Apple?

It's better if they can convince Apple to put up the MagSafe patent as FRAND. It'll be a bad joke if Apple has to include a MagSafe-to-whatever adapter with their MacBooks

Re: I was hoping for MagSafe

[Anonymous Coward]

Why didn't anyone else think of it before Apple? Well, the fryer pan people did.

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone here chides Apple for putting a deep fryer plug on a laptop and get a patent for it. Truth is, if they don't, someone else will and sue the heck out of them for it. If it was so obvious, why haven't anyone thought about it before Apple?

Deep fryer manufacturers thought of it before Apple. You even said that in your own comment.

Re: I was hoping for MagSafe

[Alain Williams]

Why didn't anyone else think of it before Apple? Well, the fryer pan people did.

Did Apple cite the deep pan use on their patent application ? If not then should they not be prosecuted for submitting a fraudulent patent application ? Use with 'electronic equipment' is hardly a reason for considering it novel

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[Overzeetop]

" Truth is, if they don't, someone else will and sue the heck out of them for it."

No, they only need to release it as a free, published connection - and then it's covered by prior art. QED.

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[UnknowingFool]

If it was so obvious, why haven't anyone thought about it before Apple?

Two things come to mind: 1) The bottom line. Many companies don't always do the little things because it takes time and money to do things. I'm pretty sure an engineer from another company came up with great ideas but they were cut in planning/development. Apple will spend years on a product before releasing it and they will charge enough to make this strategy work. 2) Featuritis. Many companies focus on too many features. This is related to #1. Following the history of Apple, their products never have the most features. Apple seems to focus only on a handful of them and get them right before adding new ones. Geeks here don't appreciate that as Apple will never win the bullet point count, but for the average consumer they are less impressed with numbers of features than working features.

Take for example, the original iPod that synced automatically when you plugged in the cable. I think it was at Jobs' insistence that this be a 1-step process. Now doing so isn't technically difficult, but it takes coordination between hardware and software. It also required a philosophical change away from file/directory based transfer to one based on metadata. For example, most people don't care which directory/subdirectory their favorite songs where located but what they were (songs by The Rolling Stones, blue-grass songs, etc.). Now other companies might have been focused on other features like playing every format from Ogg to WMA or an equalizer with 11 bars, etc. Apple concentrated on making the UI simpler for the average consumer.

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[Anonymous Coward]

MagSafe was an advantage of Apple's laptop, it was a differentiator for their products. It's perfectly understandable for them to not release it as a free patent. Will Google release its search algorithm or Kuerig release its K-cup patent? No way Jose. I agree with zoffdino that if a better proprietary standard exists, it should be adopted. The EU can pay Apple some money for them to cede the rights to the MagSafe patent in some countries. Not sure if Apple will take it up though. It's not like they need money anyway.

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[Anonymous Coward]

I love how anytime anyone makes anything that the open source fanboys hate to admit that they love they scream "open source it" like it's a moral obligation for those with skin in the game to suck up to those who've never contributed anything but the idiot sound and fury of the peanut gallery.
 
I wish for once that the open source crowd was contributing something that no one else has ever come up with first instead of trying to make a third rate knock off look like something innovative (GIMP, I'm looking at you).
 
Heck, even the wunderkind of Raspberry Pi that we hear so much of around here isn't true open source. LOLzzz!
 
Oh well, back to sleep, fanboy... wait for someone else to innovate again and cry about how mean and nasty they are for actually wanting to turn a profit for their work. those of us in the real world know that you haven't got anything else.

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[vux984]

Everyone here chides Apple for putting a deep fryer plug on a laptop and get a patent for it. Truth is, if they don't, someone else will and sue the heck out of them for it.

As I recall, Apple is also unwilling to license that patent at all.

If it was so obvious, why haven't anyone thought about it before Apple?

Someone had to do it first. Unfortunately for us, it was apple.

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[zoffdino]

As I recall, Apple is also unwilling to license that patent at all.

You have the right to refuse to rent out your home. You have the right to deny a hitchhiker a ride. Their property, their choice to license it or not.

Someone had to do it first. Unfortunately for us, it was apple.

Fortunately for us, they are the one who dared. The others are too cost-conscious, too cheap to look at the lowly power adapter.

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[vux984]

You have the right to refuse to rent out your home. You have the right to deny a hitchhiker a ride. Their property, their choice to license it or not.

The limited monopoly society grants patent holders to reward them for innovating is allegedly for the benefit of society.

Fortunately for us, they are the one who dared

In so far as we can get them for all of 3 different laptops.

The others are too cost-conscious, too cheap to look at the lowly power adapter.

Most high tech ends up in Apple after the other guys did it first. The mag adapter is one of the few 'innovations' from Apple.

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[Overzeetop]

On the contrary - I wasn't suggesting that everything be open source. The argument by the GP was that if Apple hadn't patented it somebody else would have and Apple would have been on the receiving end of a lawsuit. I was simply pointing out that there was an alternative to the patent race when it doesn't involve your core product (and, c'mon, you don't by a laptop based on its charger connection).

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[jo_ham]

Most high tech ends up in Apple after the other guys did it first. The mag adapter is one of the few 'innovations' from Apple.

The others being a high-dpi display and a battery that actually lasts as long as they say it does I suppose?

Re:I was hoping for MagSafe

[Anonymous Coward]

If it was so obvious, why haven't anyone thought about it before Apple?

Many did. I personally thought about magnetically anchored plugs years ago when I tripped over a cable one day. Didn't implement it because I wasn't in the business. I've also thought about "unisex" plug/sockets, built-in intelligence and color coding instead of black/gray everywhere. Doesn't happen because plug manufacturers want never ending incompatibility so they can sell more.

I'm sick of people claiming non-implementation equals non-obviousness. It's almost never true.

Different power requirements

[Alain Williams]

One problem with this is that some laptops take much more juice to run than others. So will the standard charger have to be powerful enough to feed the biggest laptop or will we get a range of, say, 3 -- which would be a good advance on what we have today if the same plug was used, so the most powerful PSU could be used with a light laptop, as long as a light PSU had a cutout to protect it from overload?

The specifications are protected from download by a password, so I can't check :-(

I doubt that the likes of Apple would adopt this.

Re:Different power requirements

[Anonymous Coward]

- magsafe is an awful device that does not carry enough amperes for a normal or rather high power laptop.
- apple patended it and like the iphone will want to keep their device under controlled obsolescence no matter what.
- apple remains actually blurry on the differences of wattage between their laptops and DC transformers specs, very often it is deceiving to have charging issues. another will, however deliver too high currents and damage your battery silently.

don't buy a mac.

Re:Different power requirements

[Anonymous Coward]

- magsafe is an awful device that does not carry enough amperes for a normal or rather high power laptop.

Right, that would be because apple have spent some effort on making very powerful laptops that don't use huge amounts of power, unlike other manufacturers.

apple remains actually blurry on the differences of wattage between their laptops and DC transformers specs, very often it is deceiving to have charging issues. another will, however deliver too high currents and damage your battery silently.

Score: -1 Bullshit. Any apple charger can be plugged into any Apple laptop. The worst thing that will happen is that the laptop will continue to discharge (in the case of plugging in a too low power charger). In the case of the correct power, and too high power cases, the laptop will charge correctly. This will not damage your machine.

Re:Different power requirements

[vandamme]

If it starts to run down the battery, get a bigger supply. The power converter inside the PC should be designed to take whatever the brick puts out, and charge the battery correctly and run the machine. This is a simple power converter circuit. Some machines will only need a wimpy brick, some will need a honker to avoid running down the battery while operating. There is NO reason to have 39 different freaking power plugs and voltages.

Not well.

[Anonymous Coward]

Every time you get a new laptop, you'll get another power cable.

Over the years, I have a HUGE collection of PC power cords. You know, the ones with the 6 sides that the box and monitor use. Well, every time I get a new monitor or PC, I get a new power cord. I have 3 unopened at my desk right now - and that doesn't include old ones I gave to GoodWill for recycling by DELL (Donate used computer stuff to GoodWill and they got some deal where DELL takes it and recycles it.)

Why? Because when I get a new monitor or PC, it's much easier to use the old cable than to untangle the mess behind my desk in order to use a new one.

Yes, laptops won't be as cable intensive, but I see these things multiplying over the years.

Re:Not well.

[drinkypoo]

Out of two similar netbooks, they use the same supply. But out of the ten or twelve different laptops I've owned over the years, these are literally the only ones. no, wait, I take that back. I sent back an HP EliteBook and got back a different HP EliteBook that took the same supply, but I never would have bought another machine from HP. It was a replacement. Does it count?

On the plus side, you can use those power supplies to drive LED modules, which are often available in the same voltages for some reason. I don't know if it's coincidence or not; I suspect not but have no proof.

Re:Not well.

[ApplePy]

Yes, laptops won't be as cable intensive, but I see these things multiplying over the years.

We could hope that, if such a standard is adopted, the universal laptop bricks would be sold separately, and you'd only buy one if you didn't already have one.

And yeah, it's high time we started doing that with the PC/monitor power cables as well. Almost every computer owner has at least an extra half dozen of them. There's no reason for manufacturers to include something that's been standard forever. I'm surprised it hasn't already been done for the cost savings.

Re:Not well.

[Entropy98]

And yeah, it's high time we started doing that with the PC/monitor power cables as well. Almost every computer owner has at least an extra half dozen of them. There's no reason for manufacturers to include something that's been standard forever. I'm surprised it hasn't already been done for the cost savings.

What's the cost savings? $1? What's the cost? 10 - 50% of your customers losing their shit when they can't plug in their new PC/monitor and complaining to the retailer, calling the manufacturers support line, and/or leaving bad reviews online. Yeah, I wonder why they don't do that.

Re:Not well.

[Entropius]

A lot of modern ones seem to be more or less interchangeable. My last two laptops are both 19.5V and fit each other, and a friend recently left his charger at home. The voltages match, the plug fit, and he used mine with no problem.

Re:Not well.

[ApplePy]

Oh, you're right; there's no doubt there would be complaints.

So we'll no doubt carry on making hundreds of millions of power cables that will never be used, so as to mollify people who lack the foresight to leave the store with everything they need.

I kicked myself once for getting home with a new printer, only to find the manufacturer didn't include a USB A-B cable. I went back to buy one. Since then, I've been good with one cable for multiple devices over the following years, and if I need another, I can get one.

Eh. All things considered, I don't think it'd be the end of the world, and people with either adjust or not... but what else is new?

Re:Not well.

[dj245]

And yeah, it's high time we started doing that with the PC/monitor power cables as well. Almost every computer owner has at least an extra half dozen of them. There's no reason for manufacturers to include something that's been standard forever. I'm surprised it hasn't already been done for the cost savings.

What's the cost savings? $1? What's the cost? 10 - 50% of your customers losing their shit when they can't plug in their new PC/monitor and complaining to the retailer, calling the manufacturers support line, and/or leaving bad reviews online. Yeah, I wonder why they don't do that.

Amazon does a lot of volume. I'm sure they could work out a deal with a lot of the manufacturers and offer monitors both with and without any cables. Similar to how some products have the Frustration-free packaging alongside the retail packaging.

Safe disconnection!

[Simon Brooke]

Strongly agree about safe-disconnect connectors. I think my next laptop will probably be a MacBook, even though I'll just strip MacOS off and put Linux on, simply because of MagSafe. I've wrecked two laptops, one from tripping over the charger cable, and one from it falling of the arm of a chair and landing on the charger connection. Both times, it resulted in motherboard damage.

OK, you can say I'm clumsy - but laptops are designed to be used on the move.

Re:Safe disconnection!

[SuricouRaven]

Be warned: The hardware in the Retinas is somewhat dubiously EFI and ACPI complient. You can get it running linux, but it takes a fair amount of hackery to deal with the weirdness.

Re:Safe disconnection!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1237

I *believe* the EFI value in parenthesis in this table corresponds to which version of the EFI Standard the model complies with. I know my 15" 1st gen Retina MBP has "problems" with EFI and Windows (native boot), I'd expect linux to be the same.

Glad I don't live in the EU.

[Anonymous Coward]

You know they're going to fumble the ball. They're going to call for the old barrel charger.... the design flaw that has sent more of my hardware to the eGrave than any other. I can't tell you the number of laptops I've had to pitch because I wasn't shelling out 800 dollars to repair a laptop when I could buy something with roughly the same specs for a couple hundred more and actually have a warranty again.
 
MagSafe is great. Thank God someone out there had enough of that ancient technology. Cry about Apple all you want but they did it when no one else would take the initiative.

Re:Glad I don't live in the EU.

[Anonymous Coward]

. Thank God someone out there had enough of that ancient technology. Cry about Apple all you want but they did it when no one else would take the initiative.

Agreed. I recently switched to a MacBook, and the power connector is simply brilliant. No worries about busting that barrel connector inside the laptop ever again. And this coming from a long-time Apple hater. I still don't like the iPhone, but I have to admit the MacBook and OSX are a joy to use after years of using Wintel laptops.

Re:Glad I don't live in the EU.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, instead you have to worry about a random speck of dust starting a fire.
Hint to wannabe connector designers: using exposed non-wipe contacts to carry significant current is fucking stupid.

Standards Inhibit Innovation

[BoRegardless]

The minute you standardize, the standards organization then tries to make or suggests it should be compulsory.

That often restricts innovation in many ways. It is one thing to have standards for connection and interface whether electronic or mechanical, but to try to standardize a whole "charger" ignores what is going on now with resonance charging, even lower power circuits, solar boosting, etc.

Re:Standards Inhibit Innovation

[Ravaldy]

I think it mostly restricts capitalisms. More accessories sold = more profit for companies. A standard adapter should reduce cost to uesrs. Unfortunately our society doesn't give a damn about reusing. We have a throw away mentality (me included).

A standard can evolve with technology requirements.

Re:Standards Inhibit Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

> A standard can evolve with technology requirements.

But only very slowly.

Bad pun warning

[Sockatume]

They could cut down the number of leads by a factor of six if they used some sort of heavy-duty twisted-pair conductor. Then you'd have a Cat-5 of Nine Tails.

Re:Bad pun warning

[danlip]

I'd prefer some 7 of 9 tail.

Re:Bad pun warning

[Anonymous Coward]

You jest, but I'd like to point to this. Somehow I suspect they're no longer available (I really hoped to get the "professional" version).

Yank-resistant?

[NoImNotNineVolt]

Apple's MagSafe connector is the opposite of yank-resistant. It can be yanked out more easily than any other connector I've ever seen.

Re:Yank-resistant?

[Sockatume]

Half right, it's the laptop side of the connector that is yank-resistant; it doesn't go anywhere, regardless of how much the cable is pulled.

This seems pedantic, even for me...

Re:Yank-resistant?

[Anonymous Coward]

You simply misunderstood. It is a connector that even survives a Yank.

Re:Yank-resistant?

[jo_ham]

Apple's MagSafe connector is the opposite of yank-resistant. It can be yanked out more easily than any other connector I've ever seen.

That's the point. By "yank resistant" the poster means "you can yank on it and it won't pull the laptop off the table so it smashes on the floor".

Re:Yank-resistant?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Half right, it's the laptop side of the connector that is yank-resistant; it doesn't go anywhere, regardless of how much the cable is pulled.

If I yank on the laptop side of the connector, it will go places.

Re:Yank-resistant?

[NoImNotNineVolt]

So it resists a yank by immediately giving out? That's like a water resistant watch that simply allows water to flow directly through it. Or a fire resistant blanket that instantly turns to ash. Or a superconducting resistor.

Make no mistake, I think the MagSafe connector is fucking awesome, and I can't wait until the patent expires so that I and the rest of the impoverished masses can benefit from such a convenient feature. I'm just nitpicking the language used. A tamper resistant lock doesn't just pop open when you touch it.

nothx.jpg

[TrancePhreak]

Apple's magsafe always falls out for me. If they are the pinnacle of design then that tech is not worth it.

Re:nothx.jpg

[weilawei]

The whole point is to have it disconnect with a moderate amount of force, causing you the annoyance of plugging it back in rather than the annoyance of sending your laptop flying across the room when you trip on it. One of my old external hard drives died this death...

Re:nothx.jpg

[tibit]

I think that there must be batches of weak magnets out there on Apple-branded MagSafe connectors. I have destroyed two MagSafe plug/cable combos, mostly due to exposure to moisture and ensuing damage to the ID chip embedded in the plug. I've replaced them with chinese off-eBay knock-offs that work great and seem to have magnets much stronger than the original. It is nearly impossible to yank them out by mistake.

Well, maybe those are not knock-offs, just recycled parts or parts swiped off the production line, but they don't look like hang been recycled at all. The replacement involved breaking apart the power supply enclosure, as I didn't want to splice the cable. It was a bit of a pain the first time, I admit. The cable is simply soldered onto the power supply board and trivial to replace once you get to it.

Re:nothx.jpg

[newcastlejon]

As far as I can tell, the magnet is at the laptop side of the connector, not the cable.

Re:nothx.jpg

[tibit]

Hmm, you are right. Then perhaps whatever metal was used in the connector end of things wasn't so great? Perhaps it was getting magnetically saturated? There is a possibility it's all in my head, but I remember rather vividly how easy it was to knock off the original magsafe connector. Now it almost never happens, and try as I might, I still don't see myself using it any differently.

Please fix the Micro-USB orientation standard

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is the Micro-USB turned one way on my Samsung and another on my Nexus units? Fix that first.

Re:Please fix the Micro-USB orientation standard

[GonzoPhysicist]

Already done, the next version is reversible.

Re:Please fix the Micro-USB orientation standard

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you're holding the Nexus wrong?

Apple will have to change their connector

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple will have to change their connector. Which is shit anyway because... you know... magnets around computers and all.

Re:Apple will have to change their connector

[weilawei]

Try rubbing it on your credit card, and you won't have to put up with buying Apple products anymore.

Re:Apple will have to change their connector

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and they put that magnetic connector right by the floppy disk drive!

Oh, wait...

I hope it's something at least somewhat sturdy....

[Dega704]

If I had a dollar for every broken power jack I have seen and/or replaced, I would buy Apple's MagSafe patent. Seriously though, it will probably be something that will vary in quality depending on the manufacturer. I just hope they all adopt it so we don't have to deal with this mess anymore.

Now they need to force it at gunpoint...

[Lumpy]

It is raging piles of BS that laptop makers get away with the random charger and random voltage BS they have been pulling over the past 20 years. I really hope they swing a hard hammer with this one and demand that no laptop can be sold in the EU without this connector and using a standard power supply (I.E. 85 watts 17.31624 volts)

Re:Now they need to force it at gunpoint...

[weilawei]

I'd prefer 85 watts at 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058[...] volts.

Obligatory XKCD

[marciot]

Here we go again:

http://xkcd.com/927

Yank resistant plug?

[garryknight]

"I wish they'd push a yank-resistant and positive-connecting plug"

How is it better making it harder for US citizens, even if they do make great friends? ;-)

Re:FooBar

[Anonymous Coward]

Well if you stop swinging the laptop by the power cord.....

Electrocution is death caused by electric shock

[dhaen]

Electrocution = Electro + execution = dead! There's nothing mild about dead!

Re:Electrocution is death caused by electric shock

[weilawei]

Unless you're a mildly dead zombie.

Re:Electrocution is death caused by electric shock

[Anubis IV]

Electrocution = Electro + execution = dead! There's nothing mild about dead!

Pfft, you think electrocution is bad? What about elocution? There's a reason public speaking is the #1 fear of most people in the developed world! We need to end the threat of public speaking before it's too late!

Re:Electrocution is death caused by electric shock

[Em Adespoton]

Electrocution = Electro + execution = dead! There's nothing mild about dead!

Pfft, you think electrocution is bad? What about elocution? There's a reason public speaking is the #1 fear of most people in the developed world! We need to end the threat of public speaking before it's too late!

Interesting that electrocution and elocution both result in severe forms of shock....

Music has cover charge; why not other patents?

[DutchUncle]

When a musical artist wants to perform a cover of a copyrighted song (which means pretty much *any* song), there is a fixed, comparatively small charge paid to a clearing house. Why is the licensing for a patent like MagSafe so variable and expensive by negotiation with each licensee? We pay the USB and SD and Microsoft and all kinds of other consortia taxes for their standards, whether buried in the connector cost or explicitly in other ways, and in exchange we get the benefits of interoperability. Plus if this is a safety standard on all portable equipment (presumably to be expanded for power+comm at some point), pennies per connector would still make lots of money for Apple without burdening anyone else.

IEC Login

[SloWave]

Does anyone have an IEC login to share so I can actually look at the standard?

Re:IEC Login

[sexconker]

Does anyone have an IEC login to share so I can actually look at the standard?

Try "guest".

will never fly

[roc97007]

My company issues Dell laptops, and in the years I've been here I've been issued three as the old ones go out of service. As a result, and because I like to have chargers at home and at work, I've ended up with a fair number of chargers. I've noticed, though, that my most recent laptop won't charge when connected to the previous two model's chargers, despite being the same voltage and current. It'll pop up an error something like "this is not a Dell charger. The laptop will operate but the battery will not charge". I'm guessing some kind of DRM mechanism in the charger itself.

Assuming that for the sake of argument, specifying a common connector, voltage and current isn't going to do a whole lot of good if the charger and laptop have circuitry that must validly handshake before charging occurs. Unless they're going to tackle that issue also.

Re:will never fly

[danlip]

I get a similar problem with some of the older magsafe connectors and the newer Macs, but the problem is intermittent. Sometime it will charge the laptop and sometimes it will power the laptop but not charge it (the LEDs on the connector indicate the state, as well as the drop down from the battery icon on the menu bar). I'm not sure the exact problem but it clearly isn't DRM.

Re:will never fly

[Anonymous Coward]

Just needs a USB port on the charger's transformer block linked to a small programmable microcontroller, that acts as a USB to serial bridge for uploading a firmware.

Said microcontroller does the "Secret handshake" the intended device wants.

You now have a universal charger transformer to put with the universal charge state, and plug.

Of course, then you will see many cable makers and device makers crying foul all over the place, but fuck 'em.

It DOES pose a "Chicken and egg" problem if you need to power the device to program the powerbrick, to actually program the powerbrick-- but the typical median household has several USB capable devices in it these days.

Re:will never fly

[roc97007]

Similar, but in my case I actually get a popup that casts aspersions on my power supply for not being genuine, and it's not intermittent -- it will always power the laptop, but it will not charge the battery.

Re:will never fly

[vandamme]

I just crossed Dell off my list.

I can make heavy gauge USB

[sjbe]

Holy crap. That would make me leery about using really cheap cables.

I run a custom cable manufacturing company (seriously, I really do) and I can make you a USB cable with whatever gauge wire you want. Won't be cheap but it will be robust. :-) A typical USB cable has two 24awg wires for power and the rest are 28awg or sometimes 26awg.

Re:I can make heavy gauge USB

[HornWumpus]

How are you going to get 00 gauge wires to connect to something as small as a USB connector?

I want to run an injection molding machine on USB power.

Re:I can make heavy gauge USB

[sjbe]

How are you going to get 00 gauge wires to connect to something as small as a USB connector?

Heh. Yeah, I think that might be a tad outside the connector design parameters... You could perhaps design a custom version of the connector with extra beefy contacts that might work. Would be a fun (if pointless) engineering exercise.

Gotta admit, that would be fantastic to see... briefly.

Re:I can make heavy gauge USB

[LordMyren]

Resistance is a function of conductivity times length, and sure, USB connecfors's conductivity isn't all that high, but neither is the length it has to work across. With active cooling of the connector jacket and "no limit" cabling on either side, it'd be interesting to see what amperage could be shoved through various well made connectors.

Ethernet is of course way smarter and way happier to throw piles of money at the problem than USB is: PoE+ will negotiate up to 60V using two pairs, albiet at what is typically a very mild current rating. USB Powered Device spec tops out at 20V but pushes 5A, which is a fine balance given the very short run USB has to travel.

12v

[nblender]

I'd love it if they would make it so your laptop would at least run on 12V-30V so you don't have to buy an expensive power supply to plug it into your car or truck. I don't care if it doesn't charge at full rate if plugged in to a car, but at least run.

Re:12v

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately you'll still have to have an expensive power supply as the 12v in the vehicle electronics are very "dirty" (i.e. fluctuates - as much as between 9v-14v, I had a car once with a voltmeter in the dash, you could see the needle moving all the time - 9v when cranking the engine, 14v when driving and 11.5v with the engine off), while computers expect squeaky clean electronics. I built an in-car computer and built a PSU using instructions I downloaded off the internet. At that time, I was surprised to see that it had a 12v input - 12v output - I wasn't sure of the point of this until I did some more research. Car electronics are designed to cope with 9v-14v and not expect a clean supply, or have their own PSU.

MagSafe or similar

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. Standardizing on a barrel plug qualifies as 'really dumb.' If Apple's MagSafe is locked up by patents and Apple won't license it, the IEC and EU should find something that works as well.
I also hope the specs are as smart as Apple's are at handling different wattages. With Apple power supplies, a higher-wattage supply will work with lower-wattage devices, i.e. MacBook Pro supply will work with a MacBook Air. Less waste, less trouble, less expense.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if they added a USB power port or two to that spec. Almost everyone using a laptop has need of one of those. It's be one less thing to carry.
--Michael W. Perry, Untangling Tolkien (LOTR day-by-day chronology)

Working around patents

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, my Dell charger has an easily disconnected connector a few inches from the barrel that plugs into the laptop. Yank the cord, and this connector parts, leaving the laptop on the desk when tripping on a cable.

Sure, it adds a redundant extra connector to the chain, but it's proof that patents stimulate innovation!

Re:Working around patents

[Em Adespoton]

Sure, it adds a redundant extra connector to the chain, but it's proof that patents simulate innovation!

FTFY :)

Do you like fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't want a magnetic plug. Especially one designed by apple. Just google the topic for more info.
I'll take a barrel plug any day if it means the connector is less likely to fail catastrophically.

Magsafe connector wiring frays and catches fire:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/685761

Magsafe plug gets metal shavings in it and catches fire:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rheauchyr/113019035/in/set-72057594082940769/

Give me an update to IEEE 802.3at-2009 instead

[Aqualung812]

Seriously, we can do 25.5W on 802.at-2009 NOW. Some vendors are doing 51W by using all 4 pairs.

Yes, I know many of you have laptops that draw almost 200 watts, but most of us don't need over 50W most of the time. If properly designed, the laptop can just "tread water" by slowing or stopping battery drain while drawing 51W during a work session, and then recharge while you're eating lunch or surfing Slashdot.

Imagine hooking your laptop up to power and ethernet at the same time! Single connection, less real estate used up on the exterior.

Just configure the laptop to draw power over the ethernet port, and not only do you not have to worry about a AC to DC brick, but you can travel the world and not have to worry about all the forms of AC power.

Re:Give me an update to IEEE 802.3at-2009 instead

[rahvin112]

Ever heard of the physics phenomenon where radiation decreases by the square of distance? Wireless power needs to be within a few inches of the power source to work properly. That is why the phones that support wireless charging have to be set on power mat to charge and can't do it from across the room.

Re:Give me an update to IEEE 802.3at-2009 instead

[Aqualung812]

Ever heard of the physics phenomenon where radiation decreases by the square of distance?

Yes, I'm fully aware of the inverse square law.

Wireless power needs to be within a few inches of the power source to work properly.

Well, good for wireless power, but that has absolutely nothing to do with 802.3at, which is a form of power over ethernet.

Ever heard of the 802.3 and how it is different from 802.11? Not every IEEE 802 standard has to do with wireless.

My point is that almost every laptop has an ethernet port. Use that port for both ethernet and power, which reduces the number of ports required and takes advantage of an existing worldwide DC power distribution standard: PoE.

The article photo shows an Apple laptop?

[Torp]

Isn't that the charger for older aluminium powerbooks? Barrel plug and a light at the end...

Compelled to ask...

[Anonymous Coward]

Y?

Re:Compelled to ask...

[Wootery]

"yankee" which is a slur against denizens of the northeastern US.

Apple was a pioneer there also

[SuperKendall]

I bet you threw a huge fit when phone chargers all turned into USB.

Funny you should mention that. How many phones charged by USB before the iPhone? I can't think of many, I have scores of proprietary chargers that required their own brick.

The original iPhone was one of the first to ship every phone with a USB charging cable, and that was the only way you charged it... (yes there were some others, but not many).

Re: Apple was a pioneer there also

[Anonymous Coward]

I seem to recall my Motorola razr having a standard mini USB charger.

Close, but not quite

[Overzeetop]

Performance is a blanket license and it does NOT cover all songs - only those who have put their catalog in with one of the bigger houses. It's still illegal to perform many songs in public because they are not blanket licensed by ASCAP or BMI/SESAC.

What you're thinking of is mechanical licensing, which IS set by law and allows you to record a song and sell it as either a recording fixed to a medium (tape, CD, phonorecord) or as a permanent digital download. It's a very narrow right that, I sure, the RIAA would kill if they thought they could. Note that this is only for recording without video, and only for songs YOU record - not for masters by others (such as the original artist). To put a song with a Video you need a synchronization license which must be negotiated for every recording you make, and to reproduce a song sung by someone else you have to have both the mechanical rights (or synch rights for video) *and* the rights from whomever recorded the master track you plan on reproducing - which is not covered by the statute and, again, has to be negotiated for every recording. As an added twist, you can't use the compulsory licensing until somebody has already recorded and released the song on an album for sale.

I do agree, though, that some sort of compulsory licensing of patents would certainly be a help, and would take a great deal of the power away from patent trolls.

Mini Micro

[kbg]

Great, so I guess this standard will include the "normal", "micro" and the "mini" laptop charger, just like all other "standards".

Get rid of power cables

[LordMyren]

Get rid of power cables. We don't need them. We're reasonably close, at least.

USB Power Delivery (USB-PD) specification allows for either-directional power transfer (host->device or a new device->host mode, say, monitor->laptop) of 20V@5A: 100 watts. Two connectors would power any laptop out there just fine with room to spare.

GET RID OF POWER CABLES. Pfawh on your faster horses IEC, your seemingly noble intent masks the superior result. Strategically there's a lot to love about USB's move as well: most laptops use 19V for charging, and the 20V power delivery target allows for a fantastically small & efficient buck regulator to clean that power.

Re:Get rid of power cables

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect a vast majority of "18/19/19.5/... V" laptops would be fine with 20V.
Any I've bothered to closely examine and experiment with (about 20 different models, from early Core era to current) are ok with anything between 18 and 25V.
Actual limits are "high enough so the battery charging buck can reach CV plateau voltage" and "low enough to stay within ratings of the input caps and main/sync FETs".

POE? are you kidding?

[Anonymous Coward]

have you ever had to deploy a ton of POE wireless devices before? It's pretty easy to run out of power on the POE switch, and wifi devices don't pull nearly as much power as a laptop...

Re:POE? are you kidding?

[Aqualung812]

I deploy PoE switches every week.

If you're using a proper switch & power supplies, there is no issue with running PoE+ on every port of the switch.

If you're using some bargain SOHO switch, yes, you might only be able to power 1/3 of the ports a full PoE+ or 1/2 of them at PoE.

I'm with you

[rsilvergun]

Having stepped on a 3-prong British plug it's damn near impossible to make something resistant to the buggers. Worse than Legos, I swear.

Gov't Mandate

[rsilvergun]

Magsafe plugs last longer. The #1 cause of dead laptops is dead laptop jacks. Dead laptops end up in landfills paid for by you and me. Europe doesn't tolerate subsidizing corporate waste, I'd like to see the US stop.

Why do you want the MagSafe?

[Khyber]

"I wish they'd push a yank-resistant and positive-connecting plug along the lines of Apple's MagSafe. "

Why? I've already seen one of my less-than-graceful friends step on the power plug, it not come loose, and instead of snapping off the jack it snaps the motherboard. What *MIGHT* have been a simple solder job now becomes an entire logic board replacement.

Dumbest idea ever. Should have been two flush pieces, with spring-loaded extensible prongs in the cord end, using a couple of powerful neodymuim rings around the port and end of the cord. Eliminate almost every stress point at the power connection, and make it safer, and reduce the potential for damage even further, almost completely eliminating it in fact.

gfxCardStatus

[SuperKendall]

gfxCardStatus is a Mac application that resides in the menu bar, and lets you choose a specific graphics card, and lets you know which one is in use even if you have automatic selection on.

USB?

[Mirar]

Didn't they just now make a USB standard for 100W?

Wouldn't that be much more useful as a laptop standard power plug?

standardized magnetic plug

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish they'd do that for cellphones and tablets. micro USB... Ugh.

micro USB and USB PD are enough

[Livingdead]

EU has been pushing micro USB connector for charging phones. "EU wants all companies, ahem Apple, to use standard charger" http://cnet.co/1fKGnUt USB 3.1 will bring with new type-C connector and Power Delivery (PD) function. "Next-gen USB connector a reversible challenge to Apple's Thunderbolt & Lightning" http://bit.ly/1hnwxb2 Why do we need other option?