Chromebooks Have a Lucrative Year; Should WinTel Be Worried?

Chromebooks, and ChromeOS have come a long way, and this year two of the best selling laptops at Amazon are Chromebooks. Computerworld calls it a punch in the gut for Microsoft. "As of late Thursday, the trio retained their lock on the top three places on Amazon's best-selling-laptop list in the order of Acer, Samsung and Asus. Another Acer Chromebook, one that sports 32GB of on-board storage space -- double the 16GB of Acer's lower-priced model -- held the No. 7 spot on the retailer's top 10. Chromebooks' holiday success at Amazon was duplicated elsewhere during the year, according to the NPD Group, which tracked U.S. PC sales to commercial buyers such as businesses, schools, government and other organizations. ... By NPD's tallies, Chromebooks accounted for 21% of all U.S. commercial notebook sales in 2013 through November, and 10% of all computers and tablets. Both shares were up massively from 2012; last year, Chromebooks accounted for an almost-invisible two-tenths of one percent of all computer and tablet sales."

Comments

Betteridge's law of headlines

[Anonymous Coward]

No.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[something_wicked_thi]

In this case, I think the answer is yes, but the headline is misleading nonetheless. First, some Chromebooks use Intel chips, so Intel is probably getting a cut of this. Microsoft has more to lose than Intel here.

Second, Windows faces competition from a lot more than just Chromebooks, and I'd argue that Chromebooks aren't the reason why Windows is hurting. Rather, Windows netbooks and tablets have failed to be very compelling, so all the other competitors are doing well. I think that, while Chromebooks are getting more compelling, the biggest driver here is that WinTel laptops are getting less compelling faster.

Third, aren't Windows sales dipping across the board, anyway, in favor of more mobile devices? That seems like the biggest threat to WinTel, not Chromebooks.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[realityimpaired]

Third, aren't Windows sales dipping across the board, anyway, in favor of more mobile devices? That seems like the biggest threat to WinTel, not Chromebooks.

Computer sales in general are dipping across the board, because there's less reason to consider upgrading. Unless you count cell phone/tablet, many if not most of the people reading this probably haven't bought a new primary computing device in years. Heck, I'm typing this on a 3 year old laptop that is still running as well as it was the day I bought it. I have absolutely no reason to consider upgrading it until I start seeing hardware failures, and that could be another few years.

10 years ago, each new generation brought huge improvements in overall user experience/speed. Today, they're incremental at best, and most of the improvements that are being seen in the desktop/laptop markets are to do with power consumption, rather than actual speed improvements. Sure, buying a laptop which will run for 8 hours is better than that 3 year old laptop whose battery lasts 2.5 hours, is it *enough* of an upgrade to make it worth buying a new one? For most of us, no. Case in point: I'm using an inverter that I bought 6 years ago, rather than buying a new laptop with a longer-lasting battery right now (cellular data, too... in the back seat of a car that's travelling 100km/h through the countryside). Sure it's one more gadget to carry, it's still a lot cheaper than a new laptop which wouldn't give me any other improvement.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[symbolset]

I doubt Intel is really excited about their share of the BOM on a $200 laptop. But they have no choice. It's this or give the Chromebook to Qualcomm for Christmas.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Tough Love]

some Chromebooks use Intel chips, so Intel is probably getting a cut of this

That helps Intel, not the Wintel duopoly. In fact it helps wean Intel away from Wintel so its all good.

Chromebooks aren't the reason why Windows is hurting

True, the point is that a significant segment of the market is willing to buy a laptop without Windows. It's a harbinger. It is now evident that running Windows applications is not a killer feature for many customers after all, running a browser is.

Now Android laptops are starting to show up. This development constitutes a far greater threat to Microsoft's income than Chromebooks do, for one simple reason: the Android app market. We are already past the tipping point where 800,000 Android applications have more impact on day to day life than the usual Windows offerings. That enables a robust market segment which will attract further development so that Microsoft's traditional spreadsheet/wordprocessor breadbasket comes under attack. Google helped this along tremendously by buying and releasing Quickoffice as freeware. Libreoffice with an Android interface is not far away. The document processing argument for sticking with Microsoft is rapidly eroding.

Note that Android on laptops does not fit Google's agenda perfectly either: Google would much prefer that the market become entirely dependent on cloud offerings, regardless of whether that is best for the customer. Among other advantages, this lets Google "fix" the little problem that Android is forkable open source. But Android on laptops is now inevitable and is far preferable for Google than Windows or Ios on laptops. Android on laptops will help keep Google out of antitrust court for one thing.

While I am rambling on here, the next domino to fall will be Microsoft's server franchise, which is sustained largely by being the backend for Microsoft's email applications and directory infrastructure. Who needs it when Gmail is so much less bother? Look around you at work: do you already see this trend under way? Yes you do.

Well, what next? Some of us were sure that Microsoft would eventually end up as a console company but several factors now cast doubt on that: Sony is thumping Microsoft in this product cycle; the gamer demographic is shifting to an older, more casual mix that is perfectly happy whiling its time away with cheesy touchscreen games instead of hardcore console blockbusters; and Stream walked. Suddenly it starts to look like Microsoft's traditional PC monopoly could be the last part of the ship to sink and its games business will turn out to be just more dead weight pulling it down faster.

About the only thing Microsoft could do to accelerate its sink rate would be to make Elop CEO. We can only hope.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[hairyfeet]

Actually as a retailer I can tell you not only WHY the Chromebooks had a good year but WHY MSFT had a shit year, ready? The answer to the first is PRICE and the answer to the second is WIN 8 SUCKS.

The Chromebook is proof that MSFT fucked themselves right out of the netbook market. Remember all those "The netbook is a fad/death of the netbook" articles? Well let this shop owner let you in on a secret most didn't know, which is MSFT killed it on purpose because Ballmer decided that Windows should cost Apple money while at the same time having a 4 alarm fire's worth of smoke blown up his ass by Intel who was frankly tired of all those Atom and AMD Bobcat chips cutting into their high margin sales. In less than 24 months netbooks went from $179 to $499 and believe me it was NOT the customer asking for features that jacked up the price, as i was having to hunt my ass of to get my hands on the sub $350 netbooks, especially the AMD bobcats, but when the price jumped? Sales died. The fact that MSFT killed a big selling market because it wasn't making "iPad Money" frankly should be no surprise as "I want to work in Cupertino!" has been Ballmer's cry for a good half a decade. All Google did was take that business and as we can see its good business indeed. That is what you get for not listening to your retail channel you fat sweaty bastard Ballmer.

As for the second i could wallpaper this page with "Wow Win 8 REALLY REALLY sucks" articles, but do i even need to do that anymore? Fuck common sense should point out the gaping hole in the premise, Windows 8 is made to be a tablet/cellphone OS and sucks without a touchscreen, people buy Windows for the billions of dollars in legacy Windows programs they have....which are NOT designed for a touchscreen and are as easy to use with a touch UI as trying to touchtype on a 4 inch smartphone while wearing oven mitts. The entire concept is stupid, pointless, and thanks to MSFT having a REALLY shitty "designed by committee" style UI that takes the worst out of both the desktop AND the tablet while taking almost nothing good combined with a "We're smarter than you, you'll take this 'innovation' and learn to like it you lazy luddite" bad attitude? People have made it loud and clear than Win 8 is a giant DO NOT WANT. Hell myself and most of the little shops in my area won't even carry the thing anymore, and all the e-stores have big "We have Win 7" signs so no damned wonder sales are tanking, they might as well have put out "Win 8 Goatse Edition" for all the appeal it has Joe and Jane Normal.

This just goes to show what we retailers have been saying for years...give people what they want (or what they think they want) while giving them the impression you are listening and care about what they want? Watch your sales grow year in and year out. treat the customer like shit, ignore their complaints, and act like you really don't give a rat's ass about them either way like MSFT has been doing? Watch them stay away in droves. Even with the inertia of Windows folks are happily trying Chromebooks NOT because they want some locked down thin client, but because Ballmer and Co has been giving them the bird and have made it clear they ONLY want Apple customers with Apple money and Apple margins. Well I hate to break the news to ya Steve, but Apple customers wouldn't piss on a Surface if it was on fire and Windows customers? they never LIKED Windows, they TOLERATED Windows. Your jacking the price while flipping them the bird over the UI was enough for a large chunk of 'em to go "fuck this bullshit" and start looking for the exits.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Ol Olsoc]

Actually as a retailer I can tell you not only WHY the Chromebooks had a good year but WHY MSFT had a shit year, ready? The answer to the first is PRICE and the answer to the second is WIN 8 SUCKS.

That pretty much sums it up. With all the other excuses, Windows 8 simply Sucks. More on teh price issue below.

The Chromebook is proof that MSFT fucked themselves right out of the netbook market. Remember all those "The netbook is a fad/death of the netbook" articles? Well let this shop owner let you in on a secret most didn't know, which is MSFT killed it on purpose

The constant droning mantra of most of the Microsoft set is cost, cost, and cost. There is another thread going on where people are trying to put together low cost PC systems to compete with the new Mac Pros. I once watched a flamewar over a 5 cent difference on memory chips

I have two remaining PC's that I own. One is a dual boot windows/linux laptop, and the other one is a little netbook. That little thing has bee chugging along for some years now, and since I go it ot take on trips where I didn't care as much if it got pinched, I did go for price. Microsoft just had to kill Netbooks, because part of their core of support was obsessed with price. Otherwise, I'm happy with the switch to OSX.

Sales died. The fact that MSFT killed a big selling market because it wasn't making "iPad Money" frankly should be no surprise as "I want to work in Cupertino!" has been Ballmer's cry for a good half a decade. All Google did was take that business and as we can see its good business indeed. That is what you get for not listening to your retail channel you fat sweaty bastard Ballmer.

Microsoft, especially since Ballmer, has specialized in ignoring feedback. Even when they do "listen" it's in a weird half-assed manner

And in the end, they are left with the zealots who would sing the praises of anything Redmond puts out, and are now mainly a source of amusement as every time a person posts on an issue with their train wreck OS, the reply is a variation on "If you don't like it, you're a dumbs" or "Update hosed your computer? Of course it's your fault."

"We have Win 7" signs so no damned wonder sales are tanking, they might as well have put out "Win 8 Goatse Edition" for all the appeal it has Joe and Jane Normal.

Great Bolshy Yarblockos! Holy crap! "Win 8 Goatse Edition"!! That is about the funniest thing I have ever, ever, read man, and I mean that. Well played indeed, sir, well played.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Cinder6]

I have to agree with this. I actually prefer Windows 8(.1) over 7; however, for average users, Windows 8 does present some irritations. For instance, opening image files on Windows 8, by default, goes to Microsoft's "Photos" app, which is Metro-based, slow, and terrible for quick image browsing/viewing. Now, it's trivial to change the default application in any version of Windows, including 8, but the problem is that the average user just doesn't understand that it's even possible to do so, let alone the mechanism for it.

Windows 8 is filled with little niggles like that. All told, it takes about 5 minutes to fix it back to Windows 7's behaviors, but as I said, many, if not most, people don't know how to do that.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[rssrss]

Word.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[akinliat]

Well, I'd say that Microsoft disagrees with you. Consider this -- their current ad campaign for Windows, which includes primetime television spots, is almost entirely taken up with bashing a Chromebook. No more catchy music or complex choreography, just a plain ad using a reality TV star to talk about how a Chromebook doesn't have all the stuff that Windows has (oddly not mentioning BSODs), and so is worthless.

Maybe Microsoft is spending millions of dollars because they're bored, but that ad sounds like fear to me.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Your Average Joe]

Most consumers do just that, consume data. The iPad and Android tablets make up like 99% of the market. There are apps for both platforms so why jump on the MS Win8 platform if there are NO apps? I am sure MS could have made a better way to sell win8 and the tablet interface, they are just too stuck in the rut you get into when you have monopoly power.

If GM had 70% of the car market and they wanted to start selling tires too I am sure they could FORCE the consumer to buy ONLY GM tires. How long would that last? Not sure as car buyers are not clueless like some consumers of compute devices.

Right now if you are a developer and you are not targeting the Apple and Android ecosystems you are on a dead end road. Seems like a LOT of programmers and small custom ISV's are still saying there is only one OS and it is Microsoft Windows. I am so gonna love it when this shit really hits the fan in 2014/2015.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[evilviper]

Case in point: I'm using an inverter that I bought 6 years ago, rather than buying a new laptop with a longer-lasting battery right now (cellular data, too... in the back seat of a car that's travelling 100km/h through the countryside).

An inverter is a terribly wasteful way to power a laptop, and when that waste is powered by gasoline in an ICE, you might be quadrupling the expense.

My old EeePC is powered by 12V, so I can use an old $2 car cig-lighter cord, with no dual-conversion waste. If your laptop is not (most aren't) I strongly suggest a $12 investment, which you will get a return on in a matter of days:

http://dx.com/p/universal-car-cigarette-powered-adapter-charger-for-laptop-cell-phone-pda-gps-81013

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[symbolset]

Well said.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[theshowmecanuck]

And in the end, they are left with the zealots who would sing the praises of anything Redmond puts out, and are now mainly a source of amusement as every time a person posts on an issue with their train wreck OS, the reply is a variation on "If you don't like it, you're a dumbs" or "Update hosed your computer? Of course it's your fault."

I can't resist. You can change this paragraph to the one below, and it will still be true:

And in the end, they are left with the zealots who would sing the praises of anything LINUX, and are now mainly a source of amusement as every time a person posts on an issue with their train wreck OS, the reply is a variation on "If you don't like it, you're a dumbs" or "Update hosed your computer? Of course it's your fault."

Zealots, fanboys, whatever, are a bane. Not of anything in particular, just a bane.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[LinuxIsGarbage]

If GM had 70% of the car market and they wanted to start selling tires too I am sure they could FORCE the consumer to buy ONLY GM tires. How long would that last? Not sure as car buyers are not clueless like some consumers of compute devices.

Are you sure about that? Women pick cars based solely on colour, and influence 85% of car purchases.

Meanwhile I also see people that don't know that there's a toggle to put their rearview mirror in night mode, people who say "When I hit my brakes on the snow the pedal started vibrating so I let go", people that don't know that a red oil light, or a temp gauge on "H" while driving means pull over and shut the engine off immediately, people that don't know that a fast blinking turn signal means a bulb is out. People that don't know how to check oil level, or tire pressure. Or my mom who called because she couldn't start the car, or get the keys out "It's probably still in drive. Put it in park". What do you know the keys came right out.

As far as the tire example, look at run-flat tires. Some cars come equipped with them (I think so they can get rid of spares). Some trim line minivans are (or were) equipped with them. The run-flat tires cost more to replace, have very limited replacement options, lower life, and worse ride quality. As an example of how this can cause lock-in, Google "PAX Honda". Replacing the rims to allow normal tires is a very popular modification.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Sponge Bath]

Excel.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[AmiMoJo]

I always chuckle when someone tries to claim that Android being open source is somehow a problem. It's worked out well for Google - 85% of the world mobile device market. Even devices like the Kindle help Google by getting more people developing for Android. Anyone who writes Kindle apps is going to release them on Play as well, and Android users benefit from the Amazon app store.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen some Android netbooks on some shopping sites. They come with USB ports and RJ-45 jacks. It seems like they could exploit an opportunity. Unfortunately, most of the manufacturers are no-name companies so the quality is kind of hard to judge.

I tested my Nexus 7 with a BlueTooth mouse and it at least worked. So, the OS already has mouse support and I presume keyboard support. Android can run apps like BitTorrent, VLC, and Skype. Right there you've got something that handles a lot functions people want to perform. (Running multiple apps at once is sometimes problematic, but if it's cheap enough and not completely crappy, it'll sell.)

This is kind of why I'm confused about ChromeOS. It just runs Chrome applications and certain web video sites (YouTube). Android seems like it could do a lot more and prove more useful to users. There only difference being that ChromeOS runs on Intel (mostly) and Android runs on ARM (mostly).

For a similar reason, I wonder why Google TV exists. It can't run normal Android apps (emulators and VLC won't run). A stock Android install would be a lot more useful as either a media center or light computer (internet kiosk if need be). Are electronics companies so pants-shittingly afraid of being sued by Hollywood that they can't offer a box that wink-wink runs VLC?

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Tough Love]

I always chuckle when someone tries to claim that Android being open source is somehow a problem. It's worked out well for Google...

You're putting words in my mouth. It's not me who thinks Android open source is a problem that needs to be solved, it's certain elements of Google management. Dangerous wankers obviously but what's new.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Tough Love]

I tested my Nexus 7 with a BlueTooth mouse and it at least worked. So, the OS already has mouse support and I presume keyboard support.

Of course it works, pointer input and bluetooth mouse drivers are stock Linux kernel infrastructure so Android devs had very little work to do, just feed mouse events into the same stream as touchscreen events. Keyboard support works well as you might expect except that some apps and infrastructure don't handle some common keyboard events (e.g., arrow keys) so gratuitous clicks or taps are sometimes needed, which can be irritating. Rather amateurish lack of interface consistency if you ask me.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[red crab]

It's laughable that nerds who spend countless hours installing Linux distros and tweaking and compiling software are overwhelmed by the few steps it takes to virtually eliminate the Metro interface.

If I have paid for it, it should work for me out of the box; the way I want it to. Linux is free, so I don't mind spending hours to tweak it.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Tough Love]

Wow, does some Googler with mod points actually think that no dangerous wankers work at Google as managers? Let alone doing evil by modding (-1, disagree).

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[dwater]

^LINUX^Apple

Of course, there are people who share the opinion of said "fanboys" (or whatever you call them) to some degree or other, but for rational reasons. I wonder if even the majority of "fanboys" actually do have good reasons, but their failing is that they can't easily put those accumulated experiences into words...perhaps they've come to that opinion over several years of (mostly) poor experiences and it is more of an "impression" than something they can justify coherantly.

Perhaps, indeed, it is less rational still to label someone who you disagree with as a 'fanboy'...is there a word for such behaviour? Use of the word does seem to be a trend these days.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[CastrTroy]

Exactly. I just got the surface 2 tablet for Christmas, and as a geek, I love it. Its a really well built tablet, and has some really nice features. You can still drop to the command prompt, or powershell if you want, which I haven't seen stock on any other tablet. Office lets you do some real work if you need to. The only downside I see is the lack of apps, but its sufficient and a lot of the "apps" that's its missing can just be replaced by going to websites. For instance there's no YouTube app, but the website works flawlessly. As far as the UI goes, it's different, but I haven't found any real pain points. People complain about the jarring experience when you go to the desktop, but i'd rather have that than not being able to see a command prompt. Oh, and two apps at the same time, that's something that you really don't think you is that important on a small device until you start using it. And it's supported by pretty much all apps, a small few, games mostly insist on full screen.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[lordbeejee]

I think this might work against them too: as far as I can see a lot of people don't yet know the chromebooks, they get introduced to them this way. Even if the ads are negative, more people than before know chromebooks.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[marcosdumay]

Well, it's quite normal to plug external keboards and mice on tablets, I'd say it's obviour that Android supports that, but you probably had no reason to think about it before, so I understand why you wouldn't know. Android supports most devices out there, with notable exceptions for external DVD drivers (that need root) and TTY over USB (default Android is almost useless for hacking). It also does not support shared memory out of the box, making it hard to run a serious database in it (yes, I've tried). All of those are easy to fix.

I'm also confused about ChromeOS, and I suspect all those Chromebooks are running Linux. Anway...

Are electronics companies so pants-shittingly afraid of being sued by Hollywood that they can't offer a box that wink-wink runs VLC?

In a word: yes.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[marcosdumay]

I'll only add an except that the "fanboy" experience is a determining factor on how real are his impressions. And the usual experience of a "fanboy" varies widily from one OS to another. (Also, of course, what counts as experience is context dependent.)

Anyway, no, I can't even imagine that people try to rationalize as dumb somebody that knows more than them. Now way, people are completely rational :)

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[systemBuilder]

The entire Windows ecosystem sucks, not just Windows 8. With computers not getting faster, Microsoft has a business model predicated on, "Force the user to throw away their perfectly good computer, and buy a newer cost-reduced model in order to get the next generation of Operating System". I'm sorry Steve but you'll never get me to pay $90-$130 to install Windows 7 on my $160 used computer which is 10 years old (Thinkpad T42p or T60p) and kicks the butt of any netbook or chromebook in performance! And I doin't have 4+ hours to get the install CD to work, including that nice 30-minute conversation with the fellow in India who holds my testicles in his hand while I beg for a security code!

Wake up and smell the reality! Forcing people to trade older high-end old computers for newer low-end new computers (the only thing that is offered) is a FAIL !!

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[unixisc]

Do they? Whatever they don't use for x86 or other support chips, they rent out to other fabless chip vendors who need the latest & greatest nodes. Also, what's an 80mm die?

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[unixisc]

Chromebooks would be a more serious threat to Wintel PCs than Android laptops, reason being that ChromeOS is a desktop OS, unlike Android, which would be like Windows 8 on a desktop. Just like Windows 8 is unsuitable for non touch PCs, so would Android. ChromeOS however is made w/ the desktop market in mind, so it would be the real alternative to Windows. And Google could always give it a Dalvik engine to run Android apps, if needed.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[mcgrew]

True, the point is that a significant segment of the market is willing to buy a laptop without Windows.

Actually, I think it's that they can't buy a notebook with Windows; at least, not Windows as they've always known it. Nobody wants a phone interface on their computer, Microsoft must have been smoking crack when they came up with Windows 8.

I was in the market for a new notebook, but they all had either W8 or Chrome. So there's one sale some OEM didn't get. I don't want a dumbed down phone OS and I don't want to be stalked by Google. So I'll just replace the aging battery in the notebook I have now.

Now Android laptops are starting to show up.

I haven't seen them but again, a phone OS is a poor fit for a computer.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[terjeber]

Most consumers do just that, consume data.

Most consumers mostly consume data. Some times however they want to produce data, and in reality, at the moment, there is only one family of tablets that can do that for them, Windows based tablets running on the WinTel platform. Personally I own the Surface Pro 2 and it's as close to an ideal computer as you can come today. My iPad use has dropped significantly after getting it.

I am not the average person though since my Surface Pro 2 runs Adobe Premiere, Photoshop, Lightroom, Visual Studio etc. In addition it runs a Linux installation in a VM for test-deployment of Ruby stuff. I don't know any other tablet that can do that.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Shirley Marquez]

The silicon that an IC is made on is called a die. (Trivia: the plural of this usage of die is die, not dice or dies.) According to Wikipedia, the size of the die used for the Celeron 2955U (the processor used in the latest generation of Intel-based Chromebooks) is 181 square millimeters, not 80. Wikipedia lists the price as $132 but Acer and HP are surely paying much less for them.

Nobody has yet made a Chromebook using a Bay Trail (latest generation of Atom CPU) Celeron such as the N2920. That would probably have a smaller die size; Intel hasn't released numbers.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Shirley Marquez]

Chrome OS is indeed a version of Linux. You can install Crouton on a Chromebook; that gives you an Ubuntu userspace as an alternative to the normal Chrome UI (but does not replace the Linux kernel used by Chrome OS) and you can switch back and forth.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Tough Love]

Now Android laptops are starting to show up.

I haven't seen them but again, a phone OS is a poor fit for a computer.

Android laptop.

Not much stands between Android as it is and a traditional windowing UI, it just needs a way to drag and resize windows and more consistent keyboard support. When customer demand convinces Googlers this is worth doing it will be done, or Googlers are idiots which is also a possibility.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Tough Love]

Chromebooks would be a more serious threat to Wintel PCs than Android laptops, reason being that ChromeOS is a desktop OS, unlike Android, which would be like Windows 8 on a desktop. Just like Windows 8 is unsuitable for non touch PCs, so would Android. ChromeOS however is made w/ the desktop market in mind, so it would be the real alternative to Windows. And Google could always give it a Dalvik engine to run Android apps, if needed.

Running android apps would just turn Chromeos into Android with an awkward launcher. Next step: make the browser front end optional, then it is Android. In reality it is all Linux, we are just quibbling over what kind of skin is best.

Have you tried Android with a keyboard and mouse? It works well, the obvious deficiency is no window manipulation, which will obviously be added if the Android notebook segment starts bringing in serious revenue and customers start complaining about it. Chromeos assumes that users are happy with a device that is largely useless when not connected to the internet and that makes every application feel like a web page. That leaves me out, I don't know about you. Android is also flawed in terms of running mainstream desktop applications, but the flaws are incrementally fixable without changing the entire paradigm. I don't care which constitutes a greater threat to Microsoft, what I care about is me being able to use this great hardware like a computer instead of a terminal.

Android is not like Windows 8 on a desktop because it brings hundreds of thousands of Android apps to the party, whereas Windows 8 turns its back on hundreds of thousands of Windows apps. Android is therefore a comfort zone while Windows 8 is a discomfort zone.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[ConceptJunkie]

Because you can't get it to work just like Windows 7. The biggest complaint I have is that you get that eye-gougingly ugly "flat" interface that wastes a lot of screen real estate and you can't get rid of it.

Every version of Windows prior to 8 allowed you to switch back to the Windows 2000 look, which in my opinion is the last version of Windows that actually looked good. But Windows 8 is so advanced you can't do that any more. It looks like Windows 2, but with a larger color palette.

And don't go on about themes and skinning apps and all that. From what I've seen, and I've looked a lot, it can't be done.

Combine that with the fact that configuring new versions of Windows was always an adventure of discovery where you have to figure out where they've hid everything _this_ time around, except now half of it is in the Metro interface, which is not discoverable in any meaningful way. There is no justification that these changes, and the Metro interface as a whole, were done for anyone's benefit except for Microsoft's (or at least that's what they seem to have thought). It seems they felt if they foisted all this nonsense on the users the users would just accept it, because that's what Microsoft has taught them for the last 20 years, except at some point even the most complacent user will complain and fight back.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[mcgrew]

When customer demand convinces Googlers this is worth doing it will be done

I hope you're right, but that's not the situation now.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Ol Olsoc]

I'll only add an except that the "fanboy" experience is a determining factor on how real are his impressions. And the usual experience of a "fanboy" varies widily from one OS to another. (Also, of course, what counts as experience is context dependent.)

Anyway, no, I can't even imagine that people try to rationalize as dumb somebody that knows more than them. Now way, people are completely rational :)

I've done computing from the late 70's, from old IBM mainframes, to custom build stuff (had to in those days)

Worked with old MS-Dos Machines you had to type escape codes on to print anything.

Made my living with Amigas, had a 500 as an evaluation model, and 2000, 3000, and 4000 machines with Video toasters. That until we went with our first NLE system, a G4 Mac.

Used and supported Macs from the old Toaster Macs to the G5 PowerMacs and the New IntelMacs.

Personally owned Windows PC desktops and laptops from W95, to 98, XP, Vista, and 7. Bought a W8 touchscreen laptop for my wife out of curiosity. Supported our directorate (because the people who were supposed to do that were afraid of the suits) for their conference room uses.

Not long before I retired, I installed Ubuntu Linux on th eVista laptop as a dual boot system.

Years and years of experience with multiple platforms, and multiple OS's. Ground truth level stuff, every day. Not someone who has experience on one platform, or a one time use of another.

My experience based opinions?

1. Apple Conputers. I spent the least amount of time messing with these. They worked, even during the "bad years". The uptime was significent by comparison to the Windows machines. People used to bring woe in to do on our MAcs because their Windows machine wasn't working.

2. Amiga will always have a warm spot in my heart. Obviously badly outdated by now.

3. Punchcard based computing is a PITA.

4. Windows based PC's take the most maintenance.

5. Windows based PC's are the most vulnerable to attack.

6. Update time is perilous.

7. Linux Ubuntu is a non-starter. I replaced it with Linux Mint.

8. Windows 8 is an abomination.

9. I do really like my little XP netbook.

Others may disagree of course. They might have their own reasons.

Then again, so do I. As far as I know fanboism is more of a Ford versus Chevy thing, just nerds on slashdot instead of redncks at the corner garage. I only have years of experience.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[toddestan]

While true, a small car is using something like 15-20kW continuously just to keep moving at highway speed. The amount of power used by the laptop is going to be pretty much a rounding error. You'd be better off making sure the tires are properly inflated.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[evilviper]

The amount of power used by the laptop is going to be pretty much a rounding error. You'd be better off making sure the tires are properly inflated.

Except more efficiently powering your laptop will not prevent you from fully inflating your tires, nor will it make doing so any less effective nor more time-consuming.

Similarly, fully inflating your tires will not prevent you from more efficiently powering your laptop, or eliminate the significant gains from doing so.

No matter how relatively significant the gains, there are gains, and they are cost effective and well worth the effort. And if you add up all the various "rounding error" type gains to be had in most vehicles, they cumulatively add up to a significant amount of savings.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[marcosdumay]

Ok, I should have written GNU/Linux.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Shirley Marquez]

h, you meant that they aren't being used to run the Chrome user space. I don't think that's entirely true. I have Crouton on mine but it's a secondary user space for me; I spend most of my time in Chrome. One of my housemates has a Chromebook and he uses it entirely in Chrome. And plenty of non-geeks are buying them, plus the schools and a handful of businesses that have adopted Chromebooks.

Netbooks were a fad that fizzled because, although they were cheap, they were not Good Enough for most users. Chromebooks are Good Enough for many users so I expect them to endure for a while. Like all things in computing they won't last forever; competition from elsewhere may supplant them, or Google may replace the current offering with a unified ChromeOS / Android system.

How many don't use the chrome part?

[taxman_10m]

I wiped the Chome OS off of the Chrombook. For me it was just a cheap netbook.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[SimonTheSoundMan]

This is what I hear from everyone I know who has one. I know of 7 people with Chromebooks, they either wiped Chrome off or left it getting dusty on a shelf, one or two given to someone else. I must state that none of these people bought their Chromebooks, they were given for free from Google.

So, does anyone actually know of anyone who has bought one? Why do they sell well on Amazon? A race to the bottom to release cheap hardware, Chrome OS machines being one of the only ones left as OEMs have learnt that racing to the bottom doesn't work.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[symbolset]

It's a $200 Haswell notebook. Why would it not sell?

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[pesho]

I bought a samsung chromebook for the kids and it is still with the original ChromeOS. Perfect for what they need - web browsing, simple document creation. Even I occasionally pick it up. I will likely buy one later this year for my parents to replace an old Windows XP Netbook. Again it is going to do all they need to do and at the same time require a lot less maintenance than Windows. I think google has found a nearly perfect balance here. The only drawback is the somewhat finicky printing. Let's face it the operating system has become a cheap commodity, as far as the the average consumer is concerned. For consumers the hardware and the OS are inseparable parts of the same package, and the nature of the OS is a little concern for most of them. In this mindset the price takes a lead in the purchase decision and windows hardware with its price premium for the OS is bound to loose. And before you jump up and start telling me how much more windows and MS office can do, let me make clear that we are not talking about business PCs. The chromebook primary market is the home users.

Re: How many don't use the chrome part?

[Alioth]

If it's Haswell then surely the Intel bit of 'wintel' has nothing to fear?

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[D1G1T]

Bought my Acer Chromebook with the intention of running Linux on it for use as an on-site network diagnostics machine I didn't need to fear getting stolen. I have found myself using it much more in the chrome side of the dual boot. Web browsing, checking mail, and even the occasional netflix movie. Basically what other people use tablets for, except it has a physical keyboard. It's a great little machine.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[ChunderDownunder]

shame about the browser. if this thing came with a detachable touchscreen it'd be a great Firefox OS device!

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[cmorriss]

I bought an Acer C720 for my wife. Chrome OS is nearly perfect for her. All she does is surf the web and the small amount of photo editing can be done in web apps like pixelr. Plex and Netflix work like champs.

The only hitch was Skype as she uses it to talk to her family in Italy. That's where linux comes in. Installed crouton and have it running aside chrome OS. Skype runs beautifully in it and she can hear a call while in chrome OS and switch with a single key combo and switch back when finished.

Microsoft should be worried about this. It will only improve and piece by piece take over the last remaining bastion of their empire.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[Entropius]

I have a friend sitting next to me who's not the most computer-geeky of folks who likes hers; she's aware that one could wipe ChromeOS and put something more useful on it, but for now it does "everything she needs". She does have another laptop elsewhere (a larger thing).

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[Teckla]

Again it is going to do all they need to do and at the same time require a lot less maintenance than Windows.

Maintenance is the primary problem with Windows. It's just too much work to keep a Windows system running well and safe.

In the last few years, my father has spent more money on Windows maintenance -- paid a company to wipe and reinstall his PC due to viruses, and then paid a pretty penny for antivirus software -- than he would have spent on an entire Chromebook.

And in the end, what does he do on his PC? Web browsing.

Not to mention the fact that his data is way safer on Google than local. Okay, so can Google and the NSA see pictures of his grandchildren if it's stored on Google? Probably.

But that's not important to him. What's important to him is not losing those pictures in the first place. And those pictures are way safer on Google's servers than on his local computer.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[pesho]

Like the OpenSuse laptop this and the previous posts were made? I have done my fair share of reading on the NSA and a linux machine will not help you, unless you become your own ISP and maintain your own mail server, DNS, tor node, etc. This however will cover only part of their entry points. You still have a phone and you also communicate with other people who are less skilled or just don't give that much thought about securing their communications. Even if you spend the time and effort to secure both ends of your communications, you still stand no chance if you are targeted. Read more on the technique they call 'Quantum Insert'. The most practical solution involves making sufficient number of US citizens to actually act as citizens and exert pressure on changing the current law and instituting proper supervision. Here I also have done my part by calling my senator. Hopefully US corporations loosing business opportunities will work better than the US citizens suddenly starting to make educated decisions about how their country is ran. Short of being a citizen you can make the NSA's job a little more challenging by using encryption whenever possible and generating large volumes of garbage data for them to dig trough.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[jedidiah]

Auto Update is no silver bullet. Microsoft's problems are far more fundemental than that and always have been.

They have spent their 30 years of market dominance trying to prove that cumputing has to be a dire experience. It's no shock that people flee them as soon as they they are able.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[jones_supa]

Indeed, that's exactly what I like about Chromebooks: they designed an Internet-centric device but still created a real laptop and not some stupid clunky tablet.

Re: How many don't use the chrome part?

[chill]

Yes, I do. I have two. I wiped off Chrome for Chrubuntu, but eventually put it back. Chrome is faster to boot, runs smoother and works better. Google did a lot to find tune it.

http://slashdot.org/journal/598315/six-months-with-a-chromebook

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[Cinder6]

My mom uses one and enjoys it. I wouldn't say she loves it, but I don't think she has loved any piece of technology ever. I love it, because I never have to give tech support for it.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[TrekkieGod]

I wiped the Chome OS off of the Chrombook. For me it was just a cheap netbook.

I don't get it. What the hell did you install in place of Chrome OS on the 16-32 GB hard drive? That's an impossibly small amount of storage, which is why Chrome OS takes the online apps approach so you don't have to actually install anything.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[ignavus]

The chromebook primary market is the home users.

And schools. So ... The chromebook primary market is the home and school users.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[1369IC]

I bought one of the 11.6" Samsungs last Christmas. It's the machine I take to work/on travel, etc. I also use it like my wife does her iPad -- downstairs in front of the TV, up in the bedroom before bed, etc. For me, it's small, decent to type on and has no fans. I had an iPad at work and a hand-me-down Kindle Fire, but tablets are useless without a keyboard, and then you've essentially got a chromebook. I have a desktop running Slackware 14.1, and until a few weeks ago a big ol' Dell Precision laptop running Crunchbang. I could put something else on the chromebook, but why? I'm all-in on the google services. At $250 it was a convenience I could afford.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[Idou]

I use both, thanks to crouton.

It is the best of both worlds. Chrome OS works great with netflix and google web apps. I can use crouton for everything else. I have a dedicated Ubuntu server, so ssh -x is really my only client side requirement.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[Shompol]

You have got it all wrong. This is not "racing to the bottom", but not having Windows bloatware frees you from the need to buy a "personal mainframe" to run it. Strip the chrome and install your favourite flavour of gnu linux, and you have got yourself a very capable ultrabook for under $300.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[drinkypoo]

Any contemporary OS prior to Windows 8 will install just fine in 16GB. With some of them that won't leave you much space for data or even applications, but with Ubuntu there's vast realms of room to spare in that. You could have OO.o, Gimp, Darktable, Inkscape, Hugin, and Scribus and probably still have 8GB or more free for data. That's plenty to do a little work and upload the results someplace.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[marcroelofs]

What do you mean "small amount". He's installing Linux (I assume) not Windows. A full install with LibreOffice, 3 browsers, Gimp and stuff is less than 6GB.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[msoftsucks]

Microsoft's quality assurance in testing the updates is junk. Just this year, I've had numerous situations where an update borked my customer's machines including one where it totally crashed a server. Automatic updates is no solution and in many cases is deadlier than the original problem.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[AmiMoJo]

I'm buying one for my mum. They just work, no need to worry about Adobe updates or anti-virus etc. Her current Thinkpad is getting a bit long in the tooth, and 2.4ghz is dead around here (90% off available bandwidth is taken by APs broadcasting their SSIDs). Time for a new machine and a Chromebook is ideal.

If what you want is basically a maintenance free and tech support free web browser then a Chromebook is ideal.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[synaptik]

I bought a Pixel. The only reason I wiped ChromeOS (for Linux) is that ChromeOS does not support my employer's flavor of VPN. Otherwise, I was quite content with ChromeOS + Crouton.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[Rinikusu]

Posting from a chromebook. My gf has one as well. Neither of us has installed Crouton or similar. I know another dozen or so people in my peer group who've done the same. It's a great, inexpensive little laptop (although I really wish it had a backlit keyboard), perfect form-factor and does the job I need it to do quite well (it's my couch surfing laptop). I have a thinkpad x200s if I need a win8 dev laptop to carry around (my work W520 is just too cumbersome/heavy), and my Sony Vaio TR3A is my linux dev sub-notebook. I use the chromebook 10x the amount of the other 2. My "personal desktop" is an AMD A8 based laptop that I upgraded from an A4; this is what I "game" and do all my media work on (film editing, music composition, world of warcraft). Yes, my W520 would beat it up, but that belongs to work, not myself.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[TrekkieGod]

What do you mean "small amount". He's installing Linux (I assume) not Windows. A full install with LibreOffice, 3 browsers, Gimp and stuff is less than 6GB.

Well, I assumed the same, but my own linux install takes up a whole lot more space than that.

Basically, if all you use your box for is browse the web and open some documents, then I don't see why even bother taking Chrome OS out. It does the job, right? Heck, you can also go the tablet route. However, you decided you wanted a laptop, and you decided Chrome OS wasn't enough for your needs. So, what are your needs?

On my linux install, first of all I run gnome 3, which takes up a bunch of space. Then I have Eclipse installed for coding, along with the android sdk. I also have code:blocks for when I'm not doing java. I have Mono and MonoDevelop for C# coding. I store code and associated resources...

Let's say you're not a coder. You're a gamer? Ok, you install Steam and associated games. Wine, probably, in order to run the windows only games. I doubt you could install a single game on that drive, actually.

You like editing video? Again, that's out. It won't be able to store the project files.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[der_joachim]

I agree with all of the above. Furthermore, many servers require as much uptime as possible, making reboots on patch tuesdays less than practical.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[cmdr_tofu]

I bought a Samsung Chromebook ($150 refurb at bestbuy). It's nice, light, and has a tremendous battery life (RISC processor). My MacbookAIR returned to work when I changed jobs and my only other laptop is a thinkpad x60t (still a powerhouse).

But for using a bunch of xterms, ssh and running a web browser, the Chromebook is awesome. I am using the stock Chrome/Gentoo install, but use crouton to get more functionality. I'm considering a full reinstall for full disk encryption. At this point the only thing I miss (as I don't have an x86/x86_64 processor) is a Skype. Skype does release binaries for ARM/Android. I'm wondering how hard it will be to get one of those to run in ARM/GNU Linux.

I know other who have gotten other Chromebooks for the excellent cheap hardware. The Intel Acer Chromebook line is very compelling and will take a 2.5 inch SATA drive and a RAM upgrade. Additionally it can use standard binaries (like Skype or VMware)

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[unixisc]

Was it x86 or ARM based? If the latter, what did you replace it w/ - Windows RT?

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[blackest_k]

What do you actually pay for a chrome book in the USA? I see $199 list price but in the EU its 239 euro to buy not 144 euro which is equivalent to $199, local price is roughly $330. Just curious to know what the real price is. I think us prices exclude sales taxes

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[kumanopuusan]

Other posters have pointed out a 128GB SSD that is compatible with Acer's C720 Chromebook, for a total price under $300.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[D1G1T]

6 months ago, I think I paid $230 Canadian for my Acer with 2GB RAM, 300GB HD (not SSD), and the short life battery. Models with more RAM, SSD storage, and bigger battery are more. Yes, posted US and Canadian prices always exclude sales tax.

Re:How many don't use the chrome part?

[blackest_k]

Thanks for that information, thats $120 canadian cheaper than here. Just been looking at ebay listings there is around $30 -$60 worth of import duties it seems depending on the price. Still a price saving but not quite enough I think to make it worth while.

There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Giant Electronic Bra]

Seems like Google found a pretty good formula there. I'm not sure Chromebooks will ever be even the single #1 overall netbook OS, lots of people need support for things Chrome doesn't do, but it is pretty impressive that they've got this much market penetration. I'd have scoffed at the possibility a year ago myself.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[taxman_10m]

Everyone else kinda stopped selling netbooks didn't they? I would have preferred a netbook with roughly the same specs as a Chromebook and for roughly the same price, but such a thing didn't exist. Just a few years back there seemed to be plenty of different options.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[the_humeister]

It doesn't hurt that it's pretty trivial to put Ubuntu on these things. I have a Samsung Chromebook with the dual-core Cortex A-15 processor, and I put Ubuntu 12.04 on it. All the things I can't do i ChromeOS (image editing, etc.) I do in Ubuntu.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[symbolset]

The way netbooks were killed was always sort of fishy.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Anonymous Coward]

The way netbooks were killed was always sort of fishy.

It's not "fishy"; it's a clear favour from the PC manufacturers to Microsoft. This is the one which Microsoft used to test their bargaining power before screwing them over by starting to build their own tablet hardware. They just wanted to know how far they could go. The same way that Microsoft got Nokia to agree to go exclusively for MS Office on Symbian and then completely failing to deliver the software before forcing them to change over to Windows on all their phones.

The basic aim was to size up the PC manufacturers for the death blow. As with Windows Phone, it seems that Steve Ballmer just didn't have the accuracy to strike where it was needed and instead Google is coming in and taking their market.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[ericloewe]

Not really. They were a pain. Atom really did have what was (at the time) miraculous power consumption, but it struggled with a lot of tasks.

The novelty of an easily-portable laptop was relatively new outside of obscene price points (Intel's ULV parts cost a lot more back then), but quickly wore off once low-power parts became available, starting with Nehalem and solidifying with Sandy Bridge. Ivy Bridge made tablets viable and Haswell improved on that.

It turns out there isn't much of a market between crappy Atom tablets with docks and 1000 buck Core tablets.

AMDs efforts came somewhat late when the market was already drying out and sacrificed battery life, so they never ahd much impact.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Nerdfest]

I found they weren't bad running Linux, but were quite slow when running windows. I could even run another Linux version in a VM reasonable well with only a GB of RAM. Not too shabby. I actually still have an original Acer Aspire around being used as a media player (audio) and a few other things. I think Microsoft pushing XP on netbooks is what killed them. I think it was a smart, but dirty move, and they would have needed to worry about Linux a lot sooner if they hadn't.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Teckla]

Everyone else kinda stopped selling netbooks didn't they? I would have preferred a netbook with roughly the same specs as a Chromebook and for roughly the same price, but such a thing didn't exist. Just a few years back there seemed to be plenty of different options.

Microsoft knowingly, willingly, and successfully killed netbooks, by only allowing Windows 7 Starter on netbooks that didn't have enough resources (primarily memory and CPU speed) to perform well.

So the people that got them had a bad user experience, bad mouthed them to everyone they knew, and never bought one again. Those people should have blamed the true guilty party -- Microsoft -- but they blamed netbooks in general instead. Thus, Microsoft successfully killed off netbooks.

The original idea of netbooks was something closer to what Chromebooks are... and they are very successful. Google was smart enough to rename them (netbooks -> Chromebooks) and smart enough to include an OS and browser that Microsoft can't sabotage.

And now we see that netbooks are actually a success, because Google went back to the original successful formula (no fat and slow Windows, no asinine limitations on hardware). Oh, and renamed them from netbooks to Chromebooks since Microsoft's anti-netbook campaign was so successful that everyone hates "netbooks" now... even if they actually do love them in the form of Chromebooks.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Teckla]

The way netbooks were killed was always sort of fishy.

Microsoft killed netbooks by only licensing Windows 7 Starter on netbooks that were underpowered to run Windows 7 well. Thus, people ended up having a lousy user experience.

Google revived netbooks in the form of Chromebooks by ensuring that Microsoft could not sabotage them.

People never really stopped liking netbooks -- what people didn't like was underpowered netbooks (which was Microsoft's fault) running Windows 7.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Tough Love]

They were a pain. Atom really did have what was (at the time) miraculous power consumption, but it struggled with a lot of tasks.

The novelty of an easily-portable laptop was relatively new outside of obscene price points (Intel's ULV parts cost a lot more back then), but quickly wore off once low-power parts became available, starting with Nehalem and solidifying with Sandy Bridge. Ivy Bridge made tablets viable and Haswell improved on that.

It turns out there isn't much of a market between crappy Atom tablets with docks and 1000 buck Core tablets.

AMDs efforts came somewhat late when the market was already drying out and sacrificed battery life, so they never ahd much impact.

Microsoft killed the Linux netbook market by forcing vendors to offer Windows netbooks with better hardware specs than the Linux products. Vendors were forbidden to offer Linux netbooks with the same specs, which would have allowed side by side comparison of functionality and value. This is one of Microsoft's stock anti-Linux strategies, we also saw it used effectively against Dell. The strategem was completely effective, and obviously completely illegal but when has that ever been an issue for Microsoft? The result was, a market flooded with netbooks running Windows that drove customers away from the form factor because Windows works poorly on low spec hardware.

So yes, it all stunk to high heaven, but it didn't stop Linux, it only delayed it until Google brought its own marketing power to the game.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[jedidiah]

I still run Atom based HTPCs and they are more than adequate. Pair them with a decent trailing edge GPU and you can even do "hard" stuff with them.

ARM is certainly no power house. Yet it's taking the world by storm. Most people simply don't do a lot of pure computation.

The problem is not the processor. The problem is the OS.

Netbooks are little more than slim laptops from 2001 with a different pricetag. They managed to be useful then. Why not now?

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[jedidiah]

So this is CORPORATE purchases then?

Well then that's even WORSE!

Corporations that think they need Windows for legacy apps are Microsoft's greatest remaining stronghold. If that goes then Microsoft is sunk. "Consumers" are already defecting to other Android devices.

Your argument doesn't help.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[jones_supa]

Google revived netbooks in the form of Chromebooks by ensuring that Microsoft could not sabotage them.

Chromebooks are not netbooks. Or if you are talking about 11.6"+ devices, you can still get Windows and Ubuntu laptops in that size and they work great.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Giant Electronic Bra]

Gosh I guess major vendors like Asus didn't get the memo, lol. They've been shipping Eee PCs with their own weird dedicated Linux distro for years. It works quite well. Runs FF, Skype, well pretty much anything if you know how to install. Its perfectly easy to use, and provides some pretty useful features that Chrome can't, like namely SKYPE, something I find quite valuable on a netbook. I'm still using my Eee PC1000 model from several years ago. On battery power they're not the snappiest thing on Earth, but they do pretty well. I think Asus got around the whole MS nonsense by including an XP license. Nobody in their right mind would actually INSTALL XP, but I guess Redmond got a few bucks out of it.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Giant Electronic Bra]

Right. Its probably not a major factor in sales though, since few enough people know what Ubuntu IS, let alone know that they could install it and get extra functionality. I thought about picking up one of those things, but my old Asus Eee PC1000 is still doing fine running Asus' wonky Linux distro.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[tepples]

The problem is not the processor. The problem is the OS.

Specifically, the problem is third parties' refusal to port proprietary applications, such as the iTunes Store client, to any OS for commodity PCs other than Windows.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Tough Love]

Gosh I guess major vendors like Asus didn't get the memo, lol. They've been shipping Eee PCs with their own weird dedicated Linux distro for years

In January 2013, Asus officially ended production of their Eee PC series

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Giant Electronic Bra]

Actually, according to the article you linked, Asus is once again making Eee's, the 1015 model ships with either Windows or Ubuntu. So assuming Wikipedia is correct Asus indeed did not get the 'memo' from MS...

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[sk999]

"The original idea of netbooks was something closer to what Chromebooks are."

The original "netbook" (which wasn't called that at the time), the eee PC 700, was a breakthrough in many areas - small size, SSD, low price, innovative interface. Once energy-efficient Atom chips became available, it also could boast long battery life. Most "apps" involved simply launching a web browser with a particular URL, which is similar to what a Chromebook aspires to. As far as I could tell, the most compelling feature was "CHEAP", also a feature of most Chromebooks.

A weakness of the original eee PC was its choice of the Xandros Linux distribution, which was descended from Corel Linux and had no mindshare amongst Linux users in general. Ultimately that may be a weakness of Chromebooks as well, even though Google is a much bigger company.

As far as why the original netbook market shrank, it was probably a combination of factors, but there is one thing we should not lose sight of - at the time netbooks first appeared, small mainstream notebook computers (a.k.a. ultra-portable computers) were sold at premium prices. Think $1K-$2K and above. Netbooks shattered that pricing strategy and are at least partially responsible for all the much more affordable computing devices (tablets, Chromebooks, whatever) that we now have today.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Tough Love]

Asus is once again making Eee's, the 1015 model ships with either Windows or Ubuntu. So assuming Wikipedia is correct Asus indeed did not get the 'memo' from MS...

Nice. I'm sure Asus got the memo, but the balance of power has shifted. Now, when Microsoft threatens an OEM they are likely to discover that the main effect is to accelerate plans to build up the profitable Android/tablet side of the business. Another thing that happens is, an OEM will introduce a Linux product around Windows license negotiation time as a bargaining point and the Linux product will disappear soon after.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[gl4ss]

are you fucking serious? chromebooks are the netbooks for 2010+.

same price range.
same usage scenario.

both names even end in "book" and "chrome" is googles word for "browser"/"something you access the internet with".

displays are just a lot cheaper now, so you don't need to to go with shit resolution tiny screens in the price range...

(ok pixel is out of the netbook cat)

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Giant Electronic Bra]

Yeah, that could be true. Personally the chances that I will suddenly, after 10 years of using desktop Linux, care much one way or another about what comes out of Redmond or what they do is dim. Now there is only one proprietary monstrosity left to fear, but is it called Apple or Google? lol.

Re:There are a lot of people eating their hats

[Carewolf]

Chromebooks are not netbooks.

A Chromebook is a dumbed down more net-oriented netbook. An ultranetbook if you remove the spyware.

Its us geeks who should be worried.

[tonywestonuk]

No Comment!

Re:Its us geeks who should be worried.

[taxman_10m]

From that standpoint the blame should lay with MS and Windows 8. No one wants to give anyone who may need support a laptop with Win 8 on it.

Re:Its us geeks who should be worried.

[Ol Olsoc]

From that standpoint the blame should lay with MS and Windows 8. No one wants to give anyone who may need support a laptop with Win 8 on it.

Tony is right after a fashion. The Windows experience requires armies of techs to keep the systems running.

Of course, many of these same folk are the ones who hate anything else. Not only might they have to learn something new, some of these systems require less work.

And the Legacy apps, and the office programs, are now not totally desirable. Want to see a person who has been around before the ribbon get excited? Show them one of the Open office suites.

I already have some multi OS network systems set up for those suites. Microsoft is come to the point where people such as myself are saying "too bad about Microsoft Office. It's not really compatible." Times have changed.

Re:Its us geeks who should be worried.

[marcosdumay]

Why worry? Because you'll be able to deliver more value with less work?

Re:Its us geeks who should be worried.

[terjeber]

The Windows experience requires armies of techs to keep the systems running

Nonsense. Hasn't been true for years and years.

Re:Its us geeks who should be worried.

[Ol Olsoc]

The Windows experience requires armies of techs to keep the systems running

Nonsense. Hasn't been true for years and years.

Tell that to the armies of techs where I worked last. They kept pretty busy.

Lucrative, or high selling

[Maury Markowitz]

The subject line and body are not the same thing. Having excellent sales implies nothing about whether or not it was lucrative. The opposite is also true, of course, just ask Apple, or Porsche.

Re:Lucrative, or high selling

[pmontra]

You're right. Nevertheless MS should still be worried if people buy chromebooks instead of Windows machines. Less sales, less profit for MS. The profit made by chromebook manufacturers doesn't matter. Actually I care about my profit, not theirs. It's much better for me if their margins are thin or even sell at a loss: it means more value for my money.

linux compatibility?

[richlv]

can we hope that this means all hardware being perfectly supported by linux ?

Re:linux compatibility?

[terjeber]

My tablet runs Linux. In VM for sure, but it runs it very well. It also runs Office, which is critical for me, but not for everybody. It also rund Adobe Premiere Pro, Photoshop and Lightroom, which is critical to me. Smartsound too. It can remotely control my camera both wired and wireless. I also develop on it using Visual Studio for Windows development and Rubymine for Ruby development (I test-deploy on Linux on the same tablet). The other day I was (to test it) editing some 4K video on it. It worked, but my 12 core desktop is better for that. It also runs for 7-8 hours continuously when I work on this stuff.

So, what can your tablet do?

Note, this is also the cheaper of the solutions available to me, since any other tablet I could get would, to have the same functionality, also require I buy a high-end laptop in addition.

Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Enough with the Chromebook hype already. They're fad devices, just like tablets. Yeah, a lot of people may have temporarily deluded themselves into thinking that there was some practical benefit to these kinds of devices, but that fantasy wears off soon enough. Then these half-assed, restricted, Internet-required devices end up sitting on some table or shelf somewhere collecting dust because they tend not to be very useful at all.

Mobile phones are useful. Laptops are useful. Desktops are useful. Anything between them tends to be very impractical because they feature the worst of their neighboring device types. Anything less than a mobile phone (including fancy digital watches) are too small and without enough processing power to be useful. Tablets bring the worst of mobile phones (restricted software environments and limited processing power) without any of the benefits of laptops (useful software environments and a useful amount of processing power). Chromebooks are between tablets and laptops, but still in that damn-near-useless void. Those extra-large laptops are also in a useless void, since they're too large to be portable, but don't offer the processing capabilities of desktop systems. Desktops are, of course, useful for anyone doing anything remotely serious.

It really doesn't matter how many units of these devices are sold. What matters is how much productivity they help enable. Mobile phones, laptops and desktops have an excellent record of increasing productivity significantly. Tablets and Chromebook-style tablets-with-keyboards don't.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[pmontra]

I don't think tablets are a fad. They are a zero maintenance and more mobile version of the laptop, much better for the vast majority of people that had to use a computer in the past 20 years only because of the Internet. They're now free from much of the hassle of managing a computer. Chromebooks might be a fat tablet for the guys that really need a keyboard but still don't need a traditional OS. Disclosure: I don't own a tablet because I don't have any clear use case for it. I need to use a "real" laptop and I have a smartphone, tertium non datur.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[motek]

On, my... So, what was the increase of productivity brought about by TV?

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[NJRoadfan]

Most tablets are used to play games from what I've observed.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[jedidiah]

If you aren't doing squat with your PC already, you can not do squat with a tablet instead.

Candy Crush and other Solitaire/Minesweeper/Tetris type games are all very popular with tablet users.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[tepples]

Candy Crush and other Solitaire/Minesweeper/Tetris type games are all very popular with tablet users.

But how would one usefully port, say, Mega Man to a tablet? I found on-screen controls frustrating because I couldn't feel the edges of the buttons to align my thumbs over them.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[tepples]

They are a zero maintenance and more mobile version of the laptop, much better for the vast majority of people that had to use a computer in the past 20 years only because of the Internet.

A problem is that limited-purpose computing devices, such as tablets and Chromebooks, may erode the economies of scale that general-purpose computing devices enjoy, making it more expensive for people like you and me who need a real laptop to get a real laptop.

I need to use a "real" laptop and I have a smartphone, tertium non datur.

Perhaps tablets are for people who carry a dumbphone because the major smartphone carriers charge for a month what a prepaid dumbphone carrier charges for a year. And perhaps tablets are for reading, as you can't fit much text at a human-useful font size on a smartphone's display.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Most tablets are used to play games from what I've observed."

You and the guy above you need to get out of Mom's basement more often.

in the REAL world, where adults are, the dealership that fixes my car uses tablets for car check-in. The local Sears uses it when you go in to buy appliances, so they can take your order or check specifications as they show you around. My vet uses it pretty much the way that other guy said about hospitals. They are incredibly useful tools.

Seriously, get out of the basement more often.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[LinuxIsGarbage]

I don't think tablets are a fad. They are a zero maintenance and more mobile version of the laptop, much better for the vast majority of people that had to use a computer in the past 20 years only because of the Internet. They're now free from much of the hassle of managing a computer. Chromebooks might be a fat tablet for the guys that really need a keyboard but still don't need a traditional OS. Disclosure: I don't own a tablet because I don't have any clear use case for it. I need to use a "real" laptop and I have a smartphone, tertium non datur.

Agreed. People forget "Back in the day". There were "Workstations", then there were "Home Computers" (C64/Apple ][, etc). Home computers were simple appliances, workstations were powerful machines that took a lot of effort to administer. The traditional modern "PC" (whether Windows, Apple, or *NIX) is a workstation and a lot more work to administer than a tablet (or smart phone), and most users have no interest in fiddling around with their computer. If the mobile OS will do the majority of what you need, why wouldn't it be a preferred device? Saving the PC for "heavy lifting". You will see more homes with 1 PC shared by multiple people for heavy lifting, and mobile devices for everyone.

Myself, I used to always carry my laptop with me when I travel (eg: to see my parents or friends, or roadtrips). Now I rarely take my laptop with me. I have my Smartphone and Android tablet to check email, surf, etc, and I use their PC if I need heavy lifting. I'll also use the tablet if I want to surf on the couch, or load it with movies / TV shows (that I downloaded on a PC), to watch during a flight. A big advantage of a tablet over a laptop is the lack of setup time. Seems with a laptop you always need to find a flat surface near an outlet, then wait for it to boot. Tablet you just pull it out and start using it.

On longer trips I will take a laptop (typically my 12" Netbook) to back up photos off my camera, and in case I need medium lifting computing.

At work I don't foresee completely replacing my laptop with a tablet. However (for better or worse) I now rarely take my work laptop off site. Since I now have work email on my smartphone (which I don't check off-hours), if I'm on a work trip I don't need my work laptop. I can check my emails on my phone, and if I need computing power, I can just use my personal netbook rather than haul out my work laptop and wait for it to boot and connect to the VPN.

I have to hand it to the IT guys. For being computing professionals, in every company I've ever worked at, they always do a good job of junking up the computers. My netbook's puny AMD Neo boots up Windows 7 in under a minute and is ready to go. My work laptop is a newish Core i5 running Windows XP, and takes 5-10 minutes to become usable. At one previous company I bought my old PIII desktop as surplus in 2005. While under IT control Windows XP took over 5 minutes to boot and was almost unusable once booted. Brought it home, installed a clean copy of Windows XP, and it ran another 3 years a hell of a lot quicker than it did at work.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[pmontra]

A problem is that limited-purpose computing devices, such as tablets and Chromebooks, may erode the economies of scale that general-purpose computing devices enjoy, making it more expensive for people like you and me who need a real laptop to get a real laptop.

Yes, I do expect that the costs of general purpose computers will grow higher and higher as they'll become exclusively tools for professionals and no more consumer goods. There will be less manufacturers and less choice too.

On the other side there will be a time when one will be able to create a tablet app on a tablet (AIDE is a start) or a chromebook app on a chromebook (easier).

Actually I'm looking forward to a less than 150 g (5 oz) device with at least the computing power of a i5, 8+ GB RAM and 256+ GB of storage, that I can carry around and use as either a smartphone or a computer depending on if it's free or plugged to main power and connected to a screen, keyboard and mouse. The unborn Ubuntu phone was a step in that direction.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[CronoCloud]

You don't... you port Mega Man to something with real buttons, like a DS/PSP/Vita.

Different devices, different uses, different games.

Re:Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing.

[tepples]

Which leads to having to carry a whole bunch of devices, one for each use. I thought "convergence" was supposed to get away from that mentality. Are the majority of people really willing to carry a 3DS to play DS and 3DS games, a PSP to play PSP games, a PS Vita to play PS Vita games, and a cell phone to make calls?

It's not that ChromeOS is good...

[Kenja]

it's that Windows 8 isn't.

Re:It's not that ChromeOS is good...

[jedidiah]

If this were seen as a Linux problem, such a cobble ware approach would be portrayed as an insurmountable burden that poor "Joe Sixpack" isn't capable of handling.

Re:It's not that ChromeOS is good...

[marcosdumay]

And looks like poor Joe Sixpack can handle the change quite well, but isn't willing to change to a worse interface.

Or, in other words, critics of both sides were wrong, and the "shut-up and code" people of the Linux side had plenty of reason. I wonder how far Linux GUIs would be today if the hackers weren't offset by "UI specialists" under pressure of a couple of companies.

Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[Anonymous Coward]

I replaced my old go-to laptop with a Haswell-based Acer C720 Chromebook that I put Linux on. I regularly get 7-8 hours of battery life, it has a decent matte screen (1366 x 768), USB 3.0, x86 dual-core Haswell chip...plenty of stuff under the hood for $199. Yeah it's got 2GBytes RAM (the 4GB RAM version is out of stock...) but for $199 I'm not expecting a gaming monster.
 
  The C720 is one of the few x86 Chromebooks on the market and the best damn value I think for a portable Linux laptop.

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[taxman_10m]

Mine is a C7 w/ 320 gb hard drive. 16 SSD seems a bit small to me.

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[CdBee]

should be noted that at the current time the touchpad is not supported in Linux distros, so it must be used either entirely from keyboard shortcuts, or with a usb mouse/trackpad/rollerball. Still a great deal but thats quite a failing in a laptop that doesnt have a touchscreen (unless you buy the C720P touchscreen version which is 50% more expensive)

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[symbolset]

Also, for $99 you can upgrade the ssd to 128GB. Now it's a pretty killer laptop for $300.

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[Anonymous Coward]

Looked good until you quoted the screen resolution.

When will we get a decent (i.e. non 1366x768) screen? Yes I'm prepared to pay alittle extra for it.
I gave up on x768 screens 10 years ago.

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[symbolset]

They may have something for you at CES.

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[mrchaotica]

Wow, that's cool. I had assumed these things were built more like tablets or "ultrabooks" (with soldered-on flash).

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[symbolset]

Sadly the RAM is soldered on, or people would be bumping that to 4 or 8 GB as well. The 4GB versions are perpetually sold out.

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[timbo234]

This is not correct anymore, the touchpad works fine under Ubuntu 13.10 if you install it using the Chrubuntu scripts. The Chrubuntu author has integrated the patches from Chrome dev Beson Leung into the Chrubuntu scripts so that it automatically patches the Ubuntu kernel for you.

If, like me, you want to use 12.04 LTS instead of the latest you can use an Ubuntu 13.10 machine or VM to build the patched modules and then use them with the 13.10 kernel on 12.04, see here for instructions https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/EJUSUudzHb3

And just to be clear, I'm talking about the Chrubuntu method of installing a full-fledged Ubuntu installation here as a the only OS or a dual-boot, i.e. not the Ubuntu-using-the-ChromeOS-kernel setup of Crouton.

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[timbo234]

Ah, posted the wrong link. The instructions for getting the touchpad to work on 12.04 LTS are here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2190187

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[hazem]

I have an older Acer Aspire One that came with Windows 7 and it's been a great little computer (especially after putting Linux on it).

I've thought about a Chromebook, but I wonder about how they've replaced the caps-lock with a search button. Does that button act like a caps-lock when the machine doesn't have Chrome installed?

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[Osgeld]

wow for the same price as upgrading a pile of shit you could have an ok i3 laptop with 4 gigs of ram, better screen, bout the same battery life and a free copy of windows to ditch on the next moron that needs one

Re:Amazing $200 Linux laptops

[johnsie]

But Ubuntu is a terrible distro that spies on users by default. Who know's what surprises they are hiding in their packages

I never see people with Chromebooks.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a full-time college student, and I'm a part-time web developer. I'm constantly surrounded by the demographics that are the heaviest users of mobile and portable computing devices. Yet I NEVER see anyone using a Chromebook, even though it's something I specifically watch for.

Nobody in my lectures uses one of them. Most of them have an Apple laptop of some sort, or a Dell. I never see people in the college library with Chromebooks. Again, they've got their iLaptops, Dells, and occasionally a tablet.

Nobody at my workplace uses a Chromebook, from executives to managers to the marketing squad to us lowly web devs. We all have real laptops, and there are a few people who use a tablet now and then.

Nobody I know outside of work and college has a Chromebook. None of my extended family members do, my wife doesn't, my kids don't, and none of my friends do.

Even on the goddamn subway or bus I never see people carrying a Chromebook, never mind actually using it. When I'm out for lunch or getting a coffee, again, I never see Chromebooks being carried or used. The last time I was on a flight, I saw lots of people using Apple or PC laptops, but nobody had a Chromebook.

If these devices truly were as widespread as is claimed, then why the hell am I not seeing anybody actually use them? Of the hundreds of people I'll see with devices in a given day, or the thousands upon thousands of people I've seen since these devices first came on the scene, none of them have or are using a Chromebook. I see Apple laptops. I see PC laptops. I see tablets. I see mobile phones. But I never see Chromebooks. Never!

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[93 Escort Wagon]

You have to parse the report. This isn't overall sales - this appears to be sales through third-party channels. No Apple Store or apple.com sales, no Microsoft Store sales (ha ha), etc.

How many people do you know who purchased a Mac at Best Buy?

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[pesho]

Because most of them are in the homes of people who shop at walmart, and reading your post you rarely visit such places. Nevertheless they are a huge market.

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[savuporo]

Probably because people buy them for grandparents and kids etc who obviously dont drag them out to look trendy in coffee shops at Noe Valley.

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[substance2003]

I've used one for a while (an Acer C7) and traveled with it to Europe. Served me well with a dual setup Chrome OS Ubuntu Linux setup but I did find it somewhat disappointing at times. I ended up selling it off and buying a full fledged laptop afterwards.

I would think that one reason you don't see them much is because they are left home. The same people buying these probably use the saved money to buy a tablet for on the go computing.

Also keep in mind, 20% of the sales are for this year. People you see on the streets using laptops out there have models purchased up to 5 years ago. Chromebooks don't have an accumulation of years of sales so If (and that's a big if) their sales trend continues for 2-3 years. Then we will see them in the wild more. Otherwise, they'll end up like the Wii was to casual gamers. Collecting dust in a closet which is incidentally what prompted me to sell mine as I don't want my closet filled with techno junk.

That's my nickel's worth since we don't have pennies here anymore.

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[Nerdfest]

Where I am, most people buy Apple gear at Best Buy. There's only one Apple store, and it's not particularly convenient for many. Many more probably don't even know it's there.

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[Rich0]

The most likely markets for a Chromebook would be at home, or at work in a small business that can operate entirely on web-based apps. The least likely place to find it would be on a train, where network connectivity is probably a bit of an issue since most people don't have tethering plans.

If I had to buy a relative a computer it would be a Chromebook. It does just about everything they'd be likely to need a computer for, and it basically requires zero support. If I were starting a small business and didn't have a need for any thick-client applications I'd also use Chromebooks - again zero overhead.

I don't see why they wouldn't be useful at college, but whoever is paying for college is already sinking tens of thousands of dollars a year on the exercise, so why they'd be concerned about how much they spend on a laptop isn't clear to me. Plus, they're not the same fashion statement an Apple product is.

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[Nimey]

Why don't they buy from Apple's website?

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[Nerdfest]

You can't try it out, and you don't get it right away?

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[sideslash]

iLaptops

How cute and trendy of you. They're called MacBooks, dude. All of Apple's laptops are MacBooks.

Whew, thank you for correcting him. He should never, ever poke fun at Apple products or Apple users. It's funny when people parody other brands, but never the brand of the all-important "i".

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[symbolset]

My, what a broad brush you have. Is that tar? You got a little on you.

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[symbolset]

They are hugely popular in K-12 education. It is probably not best at this point to try to assign them a niche.

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[AmiMoJo]

All you have done there is prove how worthless anecdotes are. I wish people would stop posting them to Slashdot as if they meant something.

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[Rich0]

They are hugely popular in K-12 education. It is probably not best at this point to try to assign them a niche.

Well, I'd fit K-12 education in with the small businesses running web-based apps. Most schools are administered on the scale of small businesses.

The main difference between K-12 education and college education is who buys the PC. The former tends to have institutionally-owned devices, and the latter tends to be BYOD. Hence my point about cost being no object for college kids.

Re:I never see people with Chromebooks.

[C0C0C0]

Maybe it's because, as devices with tiny hard drives, they probably are used primarily at home where there is a consistent wifi connection. That's how my wife uses hers.

Profitability?

[rsilvergun]

This is a guess I'm pulling out of my @$$, but they look pretty profitable to sell. Those screens can be had for $50 bucks in quantities of 1000 (let alone what Samsung buys) and they hardware's a cheap SOC. The entire thing's probably under $120 bucks and you can sell it for $250. That's a pretty sweet profit margin. It's kinda like how Android phones were outselling Windows 8 Phones because the sales reps got better bonuses. Amazon's going to push the product with the better margin.

Re:Profitability?

[Shompol]

Android phones were outselling Windows 8 Phones because the sales reps

That and the fact that Win8 phone is a buggy unmaintained and short-lived crap.

Acer C720 - best kept Chromebook secret

[Anonymous Coward]

The Acer C720 Chromebook is Intel Haswell-based, and perfectly compatible with most Linux distros.

Phoronix did an awesome review of linux on the C720 several weeks ago, and in short: it's awesome. It runs everything you'd need - movies, internet, USB 3.0, streaming, 7-8 hours of battery life. There is some issue to work out with the touchpad, but it's possible to run most distros out of the box with an external mouse, or by applying a kernel patch. This is temporary though - I'd expect the touchpad to be incorporated in due time.

For $199, there's no better laptop on the market for Linux.

Re:Acer C720 - best kept Chromebook secret

[m.dillon]

I just ordered one of these precisely for its small form factor and haswell guts. Haven't gotten it yet but I had been looking for something along those lines for over a year now. The only downside is that the internal storage uses a NGFF (M.2) SSD slot rather than a full-blown SATA port, so the amount of storage you can throw into it is limited.

That said, I expect I can just upgrade the internals to ~64G and then connect up an external SSD via USB for higher capacity to backup my camera cards.

-Matt

Re:Acer C720 - best kept Chromebook secret

[Stryker2]

I have one. I purchased it for browsing and watching streamed videos. The trackpad sucks, but it works well for online use, and it has a larger screen than tablets. I was using a Kindle Fire HD for wireless browsing, and this beats it hands down.

I toyed with the idea of replacing ChromeOS, but I'm not so interested in tinkering any more.

Touchpad kernel patch

[Anonymous Coward]

If you wipe ChromeOS with Arch Linux, there's a patch available for the C720 touchpad. They even have the touchscreen working for the C720P. I know they're working on getting the patches to work with Ubuntu, Mint, etc.

Alternatively, you can just run Crouton to duel-boot alongside ChromeOS...which solves the touchpad issue.

Re:Touchpad kernel patch

[timbo234]

Actually the patch works in Ubuntu too. If you install Ubuntu 13.10 using Chrubuntu (which sets Ubuntu up as a dual-boot with ChromeOS) the patches will be automatically applied.

Re:Touchpad kernel patch

[johnsie]

I wont let Ubuntu spyware anywhere near my computers

128GB $99 SSD

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out this 128GB NGFF SSD. $200 for the C720, $100 for the SSD ....it's a damn fine value. Anything else you might need can connect through USB 3.0 or the SD card slot.

Re:128GB $99 SSD

[m.dillon]

Yah, I got that precise one, since the 16G NGFF card it comes with is too small for my comfort. However, 128GB is not enough when I'm filling up 64G camera cards each day. For off-camera backups I have a 512G 2.5" SSD.

At the moment my plan is to upgrade the internals to the 128GB NGFF card for the base OS and then use my 512G SATA SSD and one of those Apricorn USB->SATA adapters (powered by the USB port so really only works well with SATA SSDs) to connect it up to the chromebook when needed.

I had originally purchased a System76 to take with me into the field but it turned out to be a bit too bulky and the clamshell is a bit too fragile (beyond that, though the System76 is a really nice regular-sized laptop). I'm sick and tired of the small Atom tablet I had before... so hopefully the chromebook w/its haswell cpu will be a good replacement despite not having a full 2.5" SSD SATA port built-in.

-Matt

Chromebook Market was Microsoft's for the Taking

[theodp]

Dave Winer has some interesting thoughts on this, arguing that the Chromebook market was Microsoft's for the taking, but they instead chose to cut bait on netbooks, ceding the market to Google.

Everybody's missing the point...

[jddeluxe]

Chromebooks aren't for geeks, they're what you buy for your Mom/Dad/kids/salespeople so you don't have to play tech support because they can't be screwed up like a Windows laptop can.


They are making great inroads into educational and some business markets for the same reasons, low acquisition and support costs.

Re:Everybody's missing the point...

[MoonFog]

How is that "missing the point"? Geeks are not exactly the vast majority here. Let's face it, we're actually a MINORITY when it comes to computing. I'm pretty sure Google will be pretty happy if they can hook the non-geek marked since that's where the money is. Getting Chromebooks for the mom/pop/younger siblings out there is exactly what Chromebooks are good at and it also happens to be a very, very large market.

Re:Everybody's missing the point...

[symbolset]

Giving the gift of Windows leads to sadness.

Re:Everybody's missing the point...

[marcroelofs]

Why would Mom/Dad/kids/salespeople want to use Word? You don't give them Photoshop to make the occasional doodle do you?

Re:Everybody's missing the point...

[flyingfsck]

Yeah, a Chromebook would be ideal, except that granny uses Skype. So I gave her an Android tablet instead.

Re:Everybody's missing the point...

[CronoCloud]

Yes, until Mom/Dad/kids/salespeople ask why can't they use Microsoft Word

Who says they will ever need to use Microsoft Word? Many long years ago there were word processors that cost a lot of money for offices (WordPerfect, Wordstar, PC Write)...and then there were $50 (or less) word processors for the home/kids (GeoWrite, Paperclip, Speedscript, Bank Street Writer). Those separate markets existed because people hadn't been told yet that they needed to buy into the Microsoft/Intel Hegemony because they "might" need to bring work home from the office.

THAT was one of the things that killed the "true home computer market"...but now that market is returning..we call it the tablet/chromebook market now.

Re:Everybody's missing the point...

[CronoCloud]

apparently this Crouton chroot thingy that got mentioned in this discussion, that I hadn't heard of before, lets you install Skype for Linux.

Re:Everybody's missing the point...

[museumpeace]

and, Chrome so far, has a far better record on security patches and exploits than Windows. We'll see how long that holds up but if I had to choose what laptop to put into the hands of untechnical users, security would be a big factor.

@$$? Really?

[Frosty Piss]

This is a guess I'm pulling out of my @$$

You can say "ass" at Slashdot, we are mostly adults here.

And even more, if it's a "personal thing" about profanity, if you are typing "@$$", you are thinking "ass", and so you are just as "guilty" of offending whatever thing it is about the word "ass" that offends you.

Re:@$$? Really?

[ChunderDownunder]

It's spelled 'arse' :-)

Re:@$$? Really?

[iamnotasmurf]

It's a US centric site mate. Don't you have a croc to skin or a kangaroo to wrestle or something?

Arse is also used in the UK and Ireland, you insensitive clod!

Re:@$$? Really?

[fido_dogstoyevsky]

This is a guess I'm pulling out of my @$$

You can say "ass" at Slashdot, we are mostly adults here.

And even more, if it's a "personal thing" about profanity, if you are typing "@$$", you are thinking "ass", and so you are just as "guilty" of offending whatever thing it is about the word "ass" that offends you.

Donkeys are offensive now?

Re:@$$? Really?

[Frosty Piss]

It's spelled 'arse' :-)

So that would be... @r$3 ... ?

Re:@$$? Really?

[Fishchip]

So then don't you have some tea or Guinness to be drinking then.

(I kid, 'arse' is perfectly acceptable.)

Re:@$$? Really?

[Ol Olsoc]

It's spelled 'arse' :-)

So do you have Arsetharts over on that side of the pond?

Re:@$$? Really?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Arse is also used in the UK and Ireland, you insensitive clod!

Arse/ass is used everywhere in the world, even in places they don't speak English. How else do they eliminate the waste products of digestion?

Re:@$$? Really?

[rHBa]

I always assumed that when Americans called people an ass they meant the person was a donkey and when the rest of the world called people an Arse they were referring the the derriere.

Re:@$$? Really?

[msobkow]

No, the arsehats are all on your side. :P

Re:@$$? Really?

[dwater]

including England...because it's English, not (just) British (or European, or Earthean).

Hrm, is there a name for something that comes from Earth?

I wonder if English will stop being called "British English" and return to just being called "English", when/if the Scots choose to become independent...or will USeans then call the English language "Northern Irish, Welsh, and English, English"?

Re:@$$? Really?

[dwater]

That usage works both ways though, right?

On the other hand, "sitting on your ass" means quite different things, I think. In English, it just means "sitting down on your donkey-thing", but in American English, it means "just sitting down".

Does 'arse' have *any* meaning in American English?

Re:@$$? Really?

[iamnotasmurf]

I always assumed that when Americans called people an ass they meant the person was a donkey and when the rest of the world called people an Arse they were referring the the derriere.

In Soviet Union, Ass sits on you!

Re:@$$? Really?

[GrammarPoliceChief]

I see no crime committed here. Please move along people.

Yours, Grammar Police Chief.

Re:@$$? Really?

[isorox]

So then don't you have some tea or Guinness to be drinking then.

(I kid, 'arse' is perfectly acceptable.)

Good idea, Tea is miraculous, very handy when there's zombies or you've been shot by an arrow

Re:@$$? Really?

[iamnotasmurf]

including England...because it's English, not (just) British (or European, or Earthean).

Hrm, is there a name for something that comes from Earth?

I wonder if English will stop being called "British English" and return to just being called "English", when/if the Scots choose to become independent...or will USeans then call the English language "Northern Irish, Welsh, and English, English"?

I think the term British English (despite having its own subgroups) is used to distinguish it from other forms of English, American English being the prime example. In terms of the Scots becoming independent, they are having a referendum that will give more power to the Scottish Parliament, but it wont be independence like the Irish have, because its being done through politics and not through war.

Totally Underappreciated Taiwanese Geeks

[retroworks]

I'm kind of a "fanboi" of Simon Lin and Terry Gou. Many of the stories in /. seem blind or deaf to the history of the "white box" manufacturers and "ODM" (original design manufacturers) who build the gadgets that USA Operating Systems run on never seem to get their share of appreciation. Chrome and Android basically did what "white box" permission by IBM and MS did in the early 90s, but much more quickly... allowed Asians to invent and design stuff which is actually more affordable and better made than the originals. I remember people mocking and making fun of "Jap cars" like Datsun, and the "made in Japan" sticker being an object of derision. Then it was Hyundai and Kia and the Koreans. It seems like we have to learn the same lessons over Taiwan.

BTW Lin is behind Wistron and Acer, Gou is behind Foxconn. Together they employ more engineers and inventors than anyone else.

Re:Totally Underappreciated Taiwanese Geeks

[rotorbudd]

Mod this post up

Re:Totally Underappreciated Taiwanese Geeks

[Osgeld]

I own a 2006 (during their rennesance of making "quality" cars) kia, its a worthless pile of shit, at only 60k miles with regular scheduled maintenance it runs worse than the Ford I used to have with 197k miles on it. Its been in the shop 4 times in the last year over the same thing, that replacement parts magically dont fix, causing it to backfire (which btw is not covered by their worthless warranty) .

At 20k its coil packs went out leaving me an hour from the dealership with 2 operational cylinders, the stupid ventilation fan stopped working at 30 something thousand miles, unless you kick the glove box. The engine ticks, and the timing belt needs to be replaced.

If Kia is in your list of things not to mock then friend your arument is lost on me.

Re:Totally Underappreciated Taiwanese Geeks

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm kind of a "fanboi" of Simon Lin and Terry Gou. Many of the stories in /. seem blind or deaf to the history of the "white box" manufacturers and "ODM" (original design manufacturers) who build the gadgets that USA Operating Systems run on never seem to get their share of appreciation. Chrome and Android basically did what "white box" permission by IBM and MS did in the early 90s, but much more quickly... allowed Asians to invent and design stuff which is actually more affordable and better made than the originals. I remember people mocking and making fun of "Jap cars" like Datsun, and the "made in Japan" sticker being an object of derision. Then it was Hyundai and Kia and the Koreans. It seems like we have to learn the same lessons over Taiwan.

BTW Lin is behind Wistron and Acer, Gou is behind Foxconn. Together they employ more engineers and inventors than anyone else.

I think most people understand the ODMs...they just don't care. And rightly so. The ODMs don't do anything that improves the PC experience. They make sure your next "Dell" or "HP" is always a little cheaper than the last one, through the time-honored techniques of (A) finding cheaper labor and (B) using cheaper parts for everything. Sure, that means some engineering and design, but not the sort that grabs attention from the buyer. And I'd hesitate to call anyone who works for one an "inventor."

The Japanese revolutionized the car industry by building cars that were not just cheaper, but also better. They were more reliable, more efficient, and soon had better finish and polish than either contemporary US models. And he US makers hated them for it.

Your typical ODM-built PC of today has a flimsy case with poor airflow and no room for upgrades or expansion. Yes, it's much faster than the PCs of 15 years ago...but that's all thanks to the likes of Intel and AMD. All the ODMs did, aside from making them shoddier, was to help make them cheaper. And the US vendors love them for it.

Re:Totally Underappreciated Taiwanese Geeks

[marcosdumay]

The Taiwanese and Chinese just copy everyone

Yep, that's exactly what everybody said about the Japanese and Koreans before acknowledging that their products were good.

Re:Totally Underappreciated Taiwanese Geeks

[retroworks]

Um... Have you checked where Panasonic, Sharp, Sony are made in the past 10 years? Korea is still a player. But Hitachi display division is now owned by Foxconn. Taiwan took over touch screen ATM displays in the 1990s, and no one cared because it was a small niche, but the techs who did touch screen made smartphones possible. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970203731004576046023889689358

ARM Sales

[nurb432]

Just curious how the ratio of ARM/x86 there was.

It was really nice to see a ARM entry into the market, but no one seems to know its there..

Re:Could be good news for MS

[symbolset]

It pretty neatly handles the "bare machines are only for pirating Windows" argument. All Microsoft needs to do to avoid that is not write and sign the drivers for this. Any bets on how long it takes them to come up with a tailored install kit?

Re: How many were bought by parents who had no ide

[Anonymous Coward]

my girlfriend's mother bought a chromebook for her younger brother for christmas. they are very un-tech savvy and the only computer in the house is in mom's bedroom. all she wanted was something cheap and troublefree that would keep him off her computer playing facebook games. it's like she was already describing the chromebook before i suggested it. some people are totally casual users and only relate to a computer like it's a xbox or cell phone. the only thing they ever install is malware on accident. these people aren't creatives, office workers or students...they're children, blue collar laborers, the elderly...basically the family members that bug us with silly computer questions. there are a lot of those people out there.

This can only mean one thing

[dkleinsc]

2014 will be the Year of the Linux Desktop!

Of course, this isn't the kind of thing where everything actually changes all at once - what really happens is that slowly but surely most of the key functionality for computers is web-based, so as long as the protocols are well-understood and implemented by a bunch of different clients that leaves users free to choose operating system platforms on other factors (like freedom, price, or coolness) rather than the applications deciding for the buyer. And eventually, the threats that Microsoft makes when an OEM doesn't put Windows on everything will not have enough teeth to be effective.

Re:This can only mean one thing

[marcroelofs]

And eventually, the threats that Microsoft makes when an OEM doesn't put Windows on everything will not have enough teeth to be effective.

It's not only the OEM that are threatenend. I heard stories about a big MS client that was making motions to move away from the lockin, being told by an account manager of MS that a lot of unpaid licenses were 'discovered' in his company. If he would upgrade to the next cycle these would be 'forgotten' about. Needless to say this client took the hit and now decided to move ALL his stuff away.
Clients have been harassed so long now that they are determined to escape the embrace and never come back.

Online banking and other financial activities ??

[Anonymous Coward]

You are using an OS specifically designed as spyware and you are using it for online banking and other financial activities?? Seriously??

As someone that bought a couple of these...

[Anonymous Coward]

They were Christmas gifts to a couple family members that mostly use computers for web browsing. In their case it was a perfect fit, and to my surprise, you can get a lot of functionality through Chrome apps for if you want to go beyond web browsing. I also specifically told them I could put another Linux distribution on them if they didn't like what it could do by itself, but I haven't got any such requests from either one.
tl:dr, they're good computers for what I'd venture to say the majority of people use their computers for, including said family members. I can see reason for Microsoft to be concerned.

Re:Chromebooks

[phantomfive]

While I deplore lousy software as much as anyone, Gnome3 et al were by Ubuntu, and Chromebooks were by Google. Different groups of people.

Re:Online banking and other financial activities ?

[hot soldering iron]

I just need a quick bit of clarification: you are speaking about ChromeOS and not all flavors of Windows, yes?

Re:Chromebooks

[bluegutang]

Is this a new meme?

$ITEM

The same group of Prople behind

$PREVIOUS_LIST_OF_ITEMS

????

Re: Lucratively sitting on the shelf doing nothing

[msevior]

My 19 year old daughter is doing a course in Industrial Design. She has a highend macbook (retina display , all ssd), Samsung Note tablet and Fedoera 19 PC which is shared with me. Her time on device is Notebook , PC then MacBook. The tablet is mostly used the consume media and drawing, the PC for when she wants a big monitor or needs to write or print sonethind and the Mac for Adobe products.

Clearly the tablet is a useful device that serves a reasonable fraction of her needs.

Re:Chromebooks

[Rich0]

Indeed, Chromebooks are a real userspace frankenstein. It is a Gentoo derivative that runs Upstart. Yes, go look it up...

Worried? In about 10 years maybe

[Tony Isaac]

Wintel has already lost teenagers, grandparents, and all those who use computers just for email and facebook. They have switched to phones, tablets, and now some of them to Chromebooks. If Chromebooks weren't around, they still wouldn't be buying Wintel, but Android or iOS.

But...corporate America is still solidly entrenched, and they are just now moving on from Windows XP to Windows 7. In 10 years or so, when Windows 7 is as old as XP is now, That's when they will start to think about where to go next, and whatever it is, that option isn't around yet. So we'll see!

Re:Online banking and other financial activities ?

[Teckla]

You are using an OS specifically designed as spyware and you are using it for online banking and other financial activities?? Seriously??

Are you actually suggesting it's safer to do online banking with your typical malware ridden Windows system than with a Chromebook?? Seriously??

What?

[ArchieBunker]

Since when did Google invent any of those?

Any of them make a good Hackintosh?

[Maudib]

Was googling around, didn't see anything that had all critical components working.

Re:Any of them make a good Hackintosh?

[conoviator]

Before jumping into iOS development in a very big way, I stuck a toe in the OSX waters by converting my old Toshiba notebook into a Hackintosh. It's been a few years. As I recall, it worked pretty well; but, would sometimes crash at inconvenient moments. My primary computer is now a three-year-old Macbook Pro. There are enough used Macs on the market to make Hackintosh less useful.

wintel?

[geekoid]

no. MS and Apple? Yes.

Intel will continue to make chips.

Re:Online banking and other financial activities ?

[__aaqvdr516]

I would be fine using my own Windows machines (I have an 8.1, a 7, and a Vista at home), so yes. In the last few years, all of the compromises to my credit cards have been due to improper server admin somewhere in the "cloud", the latest being Target.

I'd also be fine using a Chromebook, but they don't do enough for me to even consider one.

Proximal cause vs ultimate cause

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

The posting sums up the proximal or immediate cause very well. But what is the ultimate cause? Why does Microsoft do what it does?

Basically because when the company got big, the original set with fire in the belly, passion, and competition cashed out or burnt out. The second echelon came in, used short term policies got their goodies and went out. The management that remained all came of age when Microsoft was so dominant they could put out start ups that could threaten them just by press releases of vaporware. They used every trick in the book to leverage their monopoly status. They never learnt any new tricks and they can not thrive in a real level playing field without monopoly advantages.

May be it is a harsh assessment, and company that big could never be managed well, not in fast changing computer business.

Re:Market Saturation

[symbolset]

No one device can serve all computing needs. It might have the latest i7 and 32GB RAM, a 4TB SSD array and dual Teslas - but is it portable with all day battery life?

Look at businesses, not college

[marcroelofs]

The herd mentality among college students will probably make them conservative in this regard. But take a look at the conventional MS mainstay of office workers. They are moving away from Exchange/Outlook hell and the ridiculously overpriced thin-clients/Windows server solution. Google Apps does the collaboration much better, Chromebooks/boxes are the mobile thin-clients of the future. Other mobiles work just as well, as a bonus.

Re:Worried? In about 10 years maybe

[rsborg]

But...corporate America is still solidly entrenched, and they are just now moving on from Windows XP to Windows 7. In 10 years or so, when Windows 7 is as old as XP is now, That's when they will start to think about where to go next, and whatever it is, that option isn't around yet. So we'll see!

This is not my experience. I consult and visit quite a few customers, and I'm seeing more and more Macs around. Not just tech companies, insurance firms, colleges, etc.

Macs are a non-trivial part of corporate purchases and increasing. Of course, this is because Microsoft pretty much lost out to open-source software and the web, and if you want a machine that can run Office (which sadly, isn't going anywhere as Excel is a truly entrenched product), Macs are decent hardware and a status symbol.

Ubuntu

[Anonymous Coward]

Bought mine for 220 bucks, installed ubuntu - very happy....

fuck the windows tax, but also fuck chromeos!

Do Chromebooks run Photoshop?

[Lucky_Pierre]

Or Lightroom? No? I think I'll pass........

Re: Do Chromebooks run Photoshop?

[cyber-vandal]

How many low price Windows laptops would be capable of running either of those?

Re:Do Chromebooks run Photoshop?

[CronoCloud]

You don't get it, Chromebooks aren't for professional photo-editors that need the $600 Adobe-foo application...they're for the people who want to browse the web, and maybe post some cat pictures to their facebook.

They can do that on a Chromebook and don't need Photoshop.

Re:Do Chromebooks run Photoshop?

[walterbyrd]

You can boot to Linux, then run Gimp. Although I don't see why you would.

I think you can get to Picasa, and do some photo editing.

I use my chromebook all the time, but not for photo editing.

How many of those get used for anything?

[LostMyBeaver]

When I wad in the states recently, I was offended by how stores like BestBuy, Staples, Office Depot and others looked like they were intentionally misleading people into thinking they were buying a proper laptop (windows, mac... Even Linux.. Eww) by putting Chromebooks next to budget laptops on the shelf and not posting any warnings about their shittiness.

Honestly, I have bought two ChromeBooks, a Samsung Series 7 Slate, two Surface Pros, a Surface Pro 2, 5 iPads, a Surface, a MacBook Air two Acer tablets in the past three years.

My wife uses her iPad for eBooks for school. My kids watch films on their iPads... Funny how iTunes music store is a good enough reason to use iPad. I haven't touched anything other than Surface for over a year. We are mostly a Windows house though. It's about productivity and entertainment. We travel a lot too. The Chromebooks are useless... Especially on cross-Atlantic flights. The iPads are awesome because of battery life. The Surface Pro 2 is the winner though... 7 hours of battery life (plus battery keyboard soon) while watching films, programming, using Linux on multiple virtual machines. I can honestly say, if Microsoft releases a new Surface Pro once a year with better battery and all it costs is $1200, I'm in.

As for ChromeBooks, I threw them in the closet since I wouldn't even give that trash away as it would just disappoint whoever got it.

Re:How many of those get used for anything?

[ctid]

Why buy two Chromebooks if they're so useless?

Re:Online banking and other financial activities ?

[Simon Brooke]

I wouldn't do any financial transaction from a Windows box, not even buy a book off Amazon. Too many friends have had trouble that way.

Chromebooks are double the price in South Africa

[LaughALot]

I cannot understand why this is the case, I think they are are ideal running ChromeOS for use in schools and old age homes. I do not understand why they are not sold here for a good price.

No, but application vendors should be terrified

[gelfling]

Chromebooks point out one crucial thing - people don't use their computers for very much. If you have a browser and some apps that are browser like, such as social media then you can cover 99% of what people actually buy computers for.

I've been dicking around with Chrome and lightweight Linux on a netbook for months - looking for something to replace XP when it goes away. All these systems and distros are, at a high level, more or less the same thing. From "Cloud Based OS's" to Mint to Xubuntu to all the others. And while they purport to have about 40-45 thousand apps to install among them, it's like the apps catalog on Google Play albeit with fewer games. Once you get past the media players, the DVD burners, the office apps you hit the bottom of the barrel or the wall or whatever you call it. About all that's really missing is a good suite of 4G drivers and the ability to make your machine a wireless access point. So if you're a PC application maker you should be seriously looking to change your business or sell your company because in a year you will be a niche business, a corporate provider or dead.

Forbes suggests that nobody is *using* chromebooks

[walterbyrd]

Of course, Forbes has always been Microsoft friendly.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2013/12/30/chromebook-sales-who-is-using-chrome-os-browser-share/

Re:Online banking and other financial activities ?

[marcosdumay]

I'm quite sure Google and the NSA won't take money from my bank account, and if they want to know my transactions, they have easier ways to get those than looking at my computer.

Now, there is data that is worth protecting, and it's a serious problem (anyway, MS shares at least as much with the NSA as Google, and they seem much more cooperative in increasing the spying - I hope you are talking about FreeBSD, Debian, or Gentoo), but personal finance isn't worth protecting against them.

I use mine every day

[walterbyrd]

I have it on the coffee table. Pick it up to surf while watching tv, or to look up a recipe, or address, or whatever. Recently, I started using it with my chromecast.

It's light, inexpensive, boots very fast, lasts all day on a single charge, and does not require a lot of fuss with updating, or applications, or whatever.

I bought it from Amazon warehouse for $145. It's the Samsung that usually retails for $249.

I couldn't be happier with it. I find it much more useful than a tablet.

Re:I use mine every day

[MXPS]

My wife uses her everyday as well. She basically wanted tablet functionality and a keyboard. She doesn't need a DVD-ROM drive, Core i5/7, etc. She uses it for her everyday web-browsing...looking up recipes, doing school work, or sharing stuff with our daughter. That's it. Any other features on a laptop would be wasted.

Plus, as a teacher all of the grading and performance applications are web-based so she can input her grades, create lesson plans, and do all of her performance evaluations on the Chromebook as well. This would have been too tedious without a keyboard (as compared to getting her a tablet and then having to buy a separate keyboard), so the relatively inexpensive Chromebook was the ideal solution for her.

She doesn't need to worry about installing updates or applications and she can easily store all of her data in her Google Drive so she can access it anywhere.. on her Chromebook, phone, desktop PC, or at school.

thinking back to how Microsoft gutted Netscape...

[museumpeace]

I find this news of Chromebook stealing Windows market share has a "they have this coming to them" feeling. So Google has the bucks and the talent to make an OS and practically give it away. Ha Ha. For them, pushing the penetration of Internet use to the lowest strata is all they need because its the clicks, not the OS licenses that make their revenue.
I feel like its karma, like the demise of MS is deserved because, in spite of Bill Gates earlier public dismissal of the Internet as fad, MS came back with a brutal, loss-leader give-away of IE just to defend itself from its own hubris [and inadvertently polluting their own OS with "back orifices"]. Google may cut the legs from under MS but primarily because they know where their bread is buttered and they work to expand that...not because they need to damage the business model of a competitor.

Microsoft has it coming.

General purpose PC

[Larry_Dillon]

Yep, most people used their PC's for content consumption, not creation. They're finding that consumption works just find on Android. What little creation they do works find from a browser on Android.

Re:Worried? In about 10 years maybe

[MooseMiester]

Agreed, but the big money is in big infrastructure and 10,000 and up unit purchases, and Apple has never played well in that market.

Microsoft is very, very good at selling to the Enterprise AND the Government - and has sucked at selling to the end consumer for as long as I can remember. Which is longer than PC's have existed, having started on PDP 11's in the 1970's.

For the record I use Apple Products, and Microsoft Products, and Linux. They all have their pluses and minuses. The only area where the posters are crazy is the love of Google Play, which is a joke, anybody can put any app they want there, it's a huge collection of malware waiting to be opened. When I get something from the Apple App Store, I know somebody at least looked at the thing, and if it doesn't work, I get an immediate refund.

Re:Worried? In about 10 years maybe

[rsborg]

While I agree with your assessment, I think the pressure that Apple is putting on Microsoft in the enterprise space won't be seen for a few years. And Apple isn't the only factor, just one of the many. Then all of a sudden, Microsoft will have massive resistance at the enterprise level in keeping their margins on standard 2-version licensing contracts where they used to be able to ask the customer for anything they wanted (i.e., they used to have the customer over a barrel).

For now, like Blackberry, their profits will continue to rise, but once their enterprise dominance is broken it will be like the floodgates opening, and either Microsoft will see a steady lowering of licensing revenues, or they will see a sharp drop-off of renewals (i.e., sudden drop of revenues). In either case, it will force Microsoft to revisit their company culture and attitude towards customers.