Slashdot Mirror
CES: Laser Headlights Edge Closer To Real-World Highways
jeffb (2.718) writes "Audi will display laser-headlight technology on a concept car at the 2014 Consumer Electronics Show, joining BMW, whose plug-in hybrid should reach production in 2014. A November article on optics.org describes the technology in more detail. This approach does not scan or project a 'laser beam' from the car; instead, it uses blue lasers as highly efficient light emitters, and focuses their light onto a yellow phosphor, producing an extremely intense and compact white light source and then forming that light into a conventional headlamp beam. The beam isn't coherent or point-sourced, so it won't produce the 'speckling' interference effects of direct laser illumination, and it won't pose specular-reflection hazards. It's just a very bright and very well-controlled beam of normal white light.
Now, to make the meme complete, we need a car model named "shark".
Awesome. I drive a regular-sized car, and at night the SUVs are already a pain in the ass with their headlights being above the back end of my car, aimed right at my rear view mirror. And soon enough they'll be even stronger? Delightful.
Wonder how much this is going to cost and how much a replacement costs when it burns out. I'd love an Audi but they don't seem to score high on reliability.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
These need to be regulated more strongly. In my country, at least, the high-intensity headlights used in late-model luxury cars like Audis are too bright. 'Normal' mode is as bright, or brighter, than high-beams. In short, they blind other drivers.
Looking at TFA, it doesn't look like these will be any better:
As with BMW's lights the laser diodes are tiny in size, only a few microns across, but the light they output is incredibly powerful--the beam pattern stretches half a kilometer, or just under a third of a mile. That's around twice the range and three times the luminosity of the firm's already-powerful LED lights.
The light output of low-beam headlights needs to be regulated more strongly.
Awesome. So now all those assholes in luxury cars can have even brighter headlights to blind me in my mirrors.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Different technology. RTFA.
So, apparently "possible to build using known technology" or "would work" are not criteria that matter in design competitions....
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
The primary advantage seems to be that it improves visibility in foggy conditions.
The secondary advantage is that if you remove your headlight covers, you can light the car in front of you on fire with the touch of a button.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
That's a different concept entirely. This story is about headlights, and no actual laser light exits the car.
That's revved up like a deuce.
...blinded by the light reved up like a deuce. A "deuce" is slang for a street rod which probably didn't have laser headlights. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_B_(1932)#Deuce_coupe)
I hate to think how much these BMW laser headlights will cost to replace after a minor fender bender. I remember when all the headlights were the standard round ones and probably cost $20 or $30 to replace. Even cheap headlights are in the hundreds of dollars now... the current BMW headlight is probably $1000.
Now you kids get off my lawn.
WRAPPED UP LIKE A DOUCHE!!
The lyrics are "revved up like a deuce" in the Manfred Mann version. Or "cut loose like a deuce" in the Springsteen version. The term "Deuce" is a shortened version of "Deuce coupe" Which refers to a 1932 Ford coupe, and sometimes used to refer to any two door Ford hot rod. But the term deuce was originally used in reference to the "2" in the 1932 model year. Springsteen once joked that the song wasn't popular until Manfred Mann changed the lyrics to be about a feminine hygiene product.
Take that, BMW-hole who cut me off!
Europeans remark how comfortable and pleasant an experience driving in the U.S. at night. H.I.D. bright headlight illumination dominates there and people have no US-style incandescent headlamps which they prefer because it makes night vision so much more effective when driving against oncoming traffic.
nt
Not even a little. It's just about looks related to current products in some way. It's the designer's equivalent to the typical engineer-designed UI.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I'll settle for the ability to blow out their tires.
Not so fast, it also effectively more than double your lights range.
So the fuckwads can blind people at twice the range.
It's so strange. I didn't realize that lighting was such a problem.
Keep making the lights stronger, and everyone will have to make them stronger. The iris will just close down more, and no gain, only less seeing ability after the onslought of light goes away.
in addition, these highly focused headlights were apparently designed for flatlanders. Nothing is more fun than being followed by someone with these very bright, very focused headlamps. As height differences occur between vehicles, you sometimes get treated to something similar to getting the highbeams flashed at you. Hundreds of times. So you end up moving the rearview and side mirrors out of the way.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Tiburons were replaced with the Genesis Coupe. The Tibby does not exist any longer in new models. So no frikkin sharks with lasers. Sorry.
I've never been able to hear anything other than wrapped up like a douche in the aroma of the night in the popular version. I never thought that's what it was...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Do not look at oncoming car with remaining eye.
(I know, I know; the mentioned headlights don't actually shoot lasers out of the car... but that's the first thing that came to mind when I read the headline).
First OEM cars DONT BLIND PEOPLE. It's the dipshits that own hondas and pickup trucks that do aftermarket HID retrofits from ebay that blind people. REal stuff doesnt do that.
So if you see someone's car that blinds you, that person themselves is a complete moron that did that on purpose. I imported the Honda Civic real HID assemblies tha tyou can not get in the USA and installed them on my Commuter 2007 civic. I have 3X the light on the road and a severe shutter cut off that makes it so that oncoming traffic actually sees DIMMER headlights than a stock car, while I can see further than most other cars with their high beams on.
The headlight assemblies cost me $1500, more than the value of the POS ricer cars with the blue headlights you see on the road. Why did I do this upgrade? I drive close to 2500 miles a month in the dark, so I need to see better than the rest of you.
Stock US cars out drive the headlights at 50mph. In order to safely drive at 70 on the highway you need to do real upgrades.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
First OEM cars DONT BLIND PEOPLE. It's the dipshits that own hondas and pickup trucks that do aftermarket HID retrofits from ebay that blind people. REal stuff doesnt do that.
BULLSHIT. This is a lie you tell yourself to justify what you did to your car.
Stock Audi's, BMW's and more are all blinding other car drivers. In an urban environment the HID lights are somewhat balanced by the ambient lighting and several-per-block streetlights; in a suburban or highway environment the reduced frequency of streetlights makes their giant light contrast more dangerous because the eye spends more time adjusting and readjusting between dark and blindingly bright.
It's much worse for car drivers when these are on SUVs or trucks. Even in the rare cases when the lights are adjusted for those vehicle's increased heights, that's no help when the assholes pull up behind you at a light.
Then yours are horribly out of adjustment. Honda S2000 has a tight cutoff ECE headlight system.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Unless the pavement is wet or you're in a tunnel or any other situation where your headlights can reflect. Lots of truckers drive at night, do you see them going out and getting piss-off-any-driver-that-passes-me level headlights?
Bullshit, they were always like that.
Why is this modded down... and replies which are even further off-topic modded up?
I don't think we are that far from a major evolutionary advance: cats developing the ability to shoot lasers from their mouths. The galaxy will soon be at peace.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Nothing is more fun than being followed by someone with these very bright, very focused headlamps. As height differences occur between vehicles, you sometimes get treated to something similar to getting the highbeams flashed at you. Hundreds of times. So you end up moving the rearview and side mirrors out of the way.
I do that pretty frequently to avoid the over bright lights behind me. Then I have to move my head to see out of those mirrors when I need to.
I have an uneasy feeling this will be the cause of my death.
No bullshit. What Lumpy posted is fact. S2000's have projector lenses that only shine down, not up, with a very visible cutoff. And they're only about 18" off the pavement, so they're not shining in anyone's mirrors or eyes. If yours don't put a visible horizontal line of light on the road, and they shine upwards, then they're not right.
"First OEM cars DONT BLIND PEOPLE."
Yea? You tell that to the idiots with new LED OEM headlights in their cars, and vehicles that are taller than mine.
So yes, real shit does in fact do that.
" In order to safely drive at 70 on the highway you need to do real upgrades."
No you don't. Take your well-traveled vehicle and buffer the goddamned headlamp assemblies, and switch to 2,700-3,000K lighting. Bam, you're brighter than 90% of the road in the first place, because in reality, nobody seems to know about buffing the headlamp assemblies.
"So if you see someone's car that blinds you, that person themselves is a complete moron that did that on purpose."
Wrong, again. Plenty of circumstances where OEM equipment will cause you vision problems, especialy anything that is blue-heavy.
Oh, you want to know why your HID kit isn't available in the USA? It FAILS DOT SAFETY REGULATIONS BECAUSE OF THE SEVERE AMOUNT OF BLUE LIGHT EMITTED. Blue light destroys night vision AND causes/irritates macular degeneration. Oh, and your shutters don't help when you're riding my ass (like most any moron on the road,) your light gets in my vehicle and mirrors just fine.
"I drive close to 2500 miles a month in the dark, so I need to see better than the rest of you."
You won't need to see better than the rest of us when you blind one of us and we accidentally cause you (and likely ourselves) to get into a fatal wreck because of your small penis and a need to be brighter, instead of being smarter.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Good. Now put 4 bags of cement in the trunk, and blind oncoming traffic.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Why not improve our night vision, instead of our headlights? There are various sorts of night vision goggles. It wouldn't be as easy, but it would avoid the problems caused by overly bright headlights. Could maybe build some kind of night vision enhancement into the windshield.
Or, maybe when we have computers driving our cars, we can dispense with headlights.
Seems the way we prefer to solve problems is by forcing the environment to adapt to us, rather than making changes on our side. When, however, the environment that we're imposing on includes us, then there is friction. Will we all need to wear special glasses when driving at night to cut down on the glare or something?
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
A corner cube may do the trick.
Oh, you want to know why your HID kit isn't available in the USA? It FAILS DOT SAFETY REGULATIONS BECAUSE OF THE SEVERE AMOUNT OF BLUE LIGHT EMITTED.
You do realize that DOT regulations (not laws, just guidelines which most states adopt in their vehicle code) REQUIRE light to be thrown upwards for overhead street sign illumination. The euro-spec headlights have a much sharper horizontal cutoff which while not passing US DOT standards, throw much less light above horizontal into oncoming drivers eyes.
You are correct that DOT specifies chromatic limits for "white" headlights, but that range is pretty wide. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.108.
The cheap aftermarket HID retrofit kits that place an HID bulb inthe stock housing are dangerous because they have such a horrible light pattern that throws a lot of dazzling light into oncoming drivers faces. They are illegal in most of Europe. They are also illegal in most of the US states, although I've never actually heard of someone getting a ticket - just failing a safety inspection.
Springsteen is Mr. Mumbles. It's difficult to understand anything he sings.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
As a potential solution to road blindness caused by oncoming (or tailgating) headlights, why not have the headlights emit mostly black light, and coat the road surface with a material which will cause it to fluoresce by the black light.
This way we might even be able to have the headlights on full beam instead of dipped (making the cats eyes like much clearer and nicer too).
Headlights would be a dim blue as a result.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
"One: modern lights are HID, not LED. Totally different technology."
Try again. Many newer cars are LED by OEM. I design LED lighting, so I'd be in the perfect position to know this.
"Two: what are you driving? I've got a... car. With the cut-offs in my HID projectors, 100% of my light emission is at or below the bumper level of a car in front of me."
Totally against DOT regulations, you're using illegal headlamps, idiot.
"What, what? Making stuff up are we? HIDs are available at a very, very wide color temperature range. Mine for instance are a nice 4300K; a nice crisp white light."
4300K has more blue than STANDARD 3,000K. Try again.
"Again, your mirrors are evidently below typical bumper level. Weird. You might want to fix that."
Ignorant of how physics, light, and mirrors work, I see.
"It's not an issue with OEM installs."
Which is why Ford and Toyota are asking me (and several other companies) about LED designs and fixtures and remedies for the problems they're having.
Please shut your mouth. I design this equipment.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
They do shine on to the road, that doesn't mean that they aren't still bright as fuck. Lumpy is full of shit, he doesn't even own an S2000, I do so I know far better what the headlights look like.
Unless you've had some work done on your car...say someone scrapes the hell outta your front bumper and it's removed to be repainted and the headlights have to come out to do that. Suddenly your lights are out of alignment and you're an asshat blinding everyone.
Ask me how I know. I had to go back twice to get them focused properly because the "approved" shop ignored that little detail when putting the car back together.
You have to factor in untrained monkeys working on these things after they're built.
4 bags of cement won't fit in the trunk of an S2000! But more seriously, even if they did (I doubt it!) it wouldn't point the nose if the car up noticeably because the suspension is so stiff and the car is small. Not that I disagree with your general point, but there are much better cars to pick on for this - like the HID's on the short wheelbase SUV towing a trailer!
Me too, and I don't think it's fair to say Lumpy is full of shit. I don't think the lights are any more blinding than any other lights. IMO they're not blinding relative to other HID's and even some halogens. (How can they be so blinding if they don't shine in anyone's eyes or mirrors?) They are bright, but I would say less so than other HID's, and the point was that they were "blinding." I don't see how they are.
The real problem is ricers putting HID bulbs in reflector housings. The reflector housing for a halogen is so efficient in spreading the light that it goes everywhere in the lens cone... adding a HID kit spreads the light with equal intensity... that why oncoming/in-front drivers get blinded. The driver actually gets less usable light with this setup from this!. Really!
All you need is a projector lens assembly and viola, HID kits work as designed, aka HIDs are designed for projector lenses. You can get cheap projector housings for $150 a pair nowadays for most popular cars.
So to all you 'ricers' out there, do yourself a favor so people like lumpy don't crash into a tree from your HIDs. Buy [the proper] projector housing if you change to a HID kit.
. . . then in 5 years, the US Safety-Mandated plastic lens cover will turn all cloudy and yellow, rendering it ineffective as a headlight.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
What happens when the light envelope is damaged, the phophor element is broken, and the high-intensity blue lasers shine directly into the eyes of oncoming traffic? What could possibly go wrong?
Dude, think about it, what could possibly go right!
I drive the speed limit and not one kph faster.
If you want to go faster, pass me.
The problem is when I try you speed up by 10Mph.
Otherwise I'd be pleased to go around you without fuss.
So I either fall back and we go back to doing the speed limit, or I drive 20MP over the limit just to get around you which I didn't want to do either. I will happily cut you off in the process if I need to get over rapidly, endangering both of us.
I just wanted to go a little over the limit (in part because I'd like to at least go the speed limit, which you are actually not doing because speedometers all cut a few MPH off the actual speed you are going).
When cars try to pass me, do you know what I do? I slow down a few MPH until they finish passing, making the whole experience pleasant and safer for everyone. So, you know, take notes here.
I'm not quite sure of the source of the boiling rage you harbor that makes you feel the need to try and control other people's speed. But it's not healthy for you or anyone else.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Two: what are you driving? I've got a... car. With the cut-offs in my HID projectors, 100% of my light emission is at or below the bumper level of a car in front of me. Even were I in an SUV, I'd be getting your trunk deck. Excluding anyone driving a monster truck, proper HID projectors aren't causing your problem. Unless you're driving a skateboard. Laying down.
Lots of arguing going on but the simple fact is that a very large percentage of lights on cars on the streets these days are entirely too bright. I don't really care if their high beams are on, their lights are poorly adjusted, or if their lights are improperly installed they are too bright and it is dangerous and extremely unpleasant. And regardless, even when adjusted and installed properly and not on high beams all it takes is going over a slight rise and presto blinding lights that are way too bright are shining in my eyes.
Laser lights will significantly compound this problem. They should not be allowed. I honestly believe that we should ban HID lights and go back to 55W halogens being the brightest lights available.
-- QED
So what's the efficiency of this technology compared to other methods of lighting?
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
I think the risk here, like already in recent german models, is the smaller optics that the laser will allow.
It seems that to designers, it's cool and dandy to sport very small headlights with a lot of power anyhow.
Now, if you consider what happens in your eye at the other extremity of the beam, this basically means the same power than before, save now it's concentrated within much fewer "pixels".
In other words, save new regulations, you burn your eye much faster.
But yeah, to the buyer it's cool and dandy, isn't it.
Herve S.
I thought all HID systems (at least in the EU) were required to be self levelling...
Most people here are Americans, who are allergic to such regulation.
They need to have a leveling control in the EU, but it does not need to be automatic. Many low end models have manual controls. The problem is cars in the US do not require any leveling system at all on HID equipped cars.
The beam cutoff is slightly different in the US since the lights have to meet FMVSS Part 108 lighting standards.
Consider for a moment a road that's not perfectly straight and flat. Those OEM HID lights that are so bright and so focused on the road ahead of the car as if it were on a freeway with no slope or turn are now going to be pointing in other places. I regularly drive on back roads of New York to and from work, and there's a few places where I can tell the fancy cars because of the lights that are way too bright until I get on the same level or a straight section.
Yes, after market HID installs are a problem, but they're easy to pick out. OEM HID have different problems, and denying it underscores your tight focus on a limited terrain.
Because the car makers lobbied against it. Having those systems in the car decreases profit by 0.04% and we can not have that.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Yet I am right and you are simply stupid.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
That is a direct quote from the very short article.
You would think that but, no. This crap happens in the middle or even the right lane as well. They are the "I am very important and need to be somewhere NOW! Get outta my way looser!" Usually they are trying to pass someone in the hammer (passing) lane and are now pissed that you're doing the limit or slightly above (more like 60-65 in a 55) isn't fast enough to pass the slow poke in the hammer. That or they just want to drive as fast as possible and weave dangerously in and out of lanes to shave a few seconds off their commute. They tail you until there is an opening barely big enough to fit through and the cut over to drive another hundred feet to do it again.
The funny thing about the passing lane is it is never treated as such (At least out here on Long Island). You assume people are trying to pass when in reality they treat the lane as a high speed express lane which has no speed limit. No matter how fast you go it isn't fast enough and that is why I stay the hell out of the hammer lane. They don't use it to pass someone and merge back. They get in that lane and expect to go as fast as possible until they get to their exit.
Too many selfish people on the roads and they drive unnecessarily fast and reckless.
Well, maybe if you weren't driving so freakin' slow in the left hand lane when people were obviously wanting to pass your slow ass...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Wow. So tell me, how do you see roadsigns?
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
First, I'm in the camp that thinks you don't even need headlights the vast majority of the time - that headlights serve more the purpose of other people seeing you than the other way around, in most circumstances... no not always, but in most common driving conditions for the vast majority of people.
Anyway, I recently faced heavy repairs on my aging vehicle, or getting a new one. I ended up with repairs, but the standout in very fuel efficient models I was looking at was the 2014 Mazda 3. So I know this technology is probably available elsewhere, but it has available steered headlights... the lights turn with the wheel: Youtube demonstration video. This seems like a much better solution than brighter or wider light distribution for the scenario you're describing.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
If this happens, I want annual safety inspections everywhere.
Or maybe, when you are oblivious to the fact that your damn headlights are misaligned, and cocked up to almost straight ahead, I'll aim my highs at you.... or slow down in front of you, you stupid gits.
mark "let's not get started on blue headlights..."
Springsteen is Mr. Mumbles. It's difficult to understand anything he sings.
While that particular lyric is indeed hard to understand (and for the record: "revved up like a deuce another runner in the night"), in general I don't think Springsteen is hard to understand.
But I will also note that the most popular recording of that song (at least in the states) is not Springsteen, but Manfred Mann's Earth Band
Springsteen is Mr. Mumbles. It's difficult to understand anything he sings.
While that particular lyric is indeed hard to understand (and for the record: "revved up like a deuce another runner in the night"), in general I don't think Springsteen is hard to understand.
If that's what you hear when you listen to the Springsteen version, then it must be very hard for you to hear, as it it is "cut loose like a deuce another runner in the night" (for the record).
But I will also note that the most popular recording of that song (at least in the states) is not Springsteen, but Manfred Mann's Earth Band
In the Manfred Mann version the line was changed to the "revved up like a deuce..." As far as I know, Springsteen never recorded a version with the changed lyrics.
Well, as long as joe amurrican doesn't lift his truck a foot higher into the atmosphere you "should" be ok. Either that, or dont lower your civic any further than sea level.
Perhaps in a world where are vehicles are at the same altitude. Not all roads are level. not all vehicles on non-level roads are at the same heights at the same time.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
A corner cube would really give it to those headlights, but the driver wouldn't notice it.
Man, you really need that seminar!
" We're talking about primary lighting, where LED is very, very rare as it's only the last 24 months or so that LED clusters with high enough output have started to come to market. "
Wow, you're very wrong. We've had direct LED headlamp replacements that worked perfectly fine, brighter than incandescent lamps that have five times the power requirement, for at least half a decade.
" Your alleged expertise in the matter has just been made questionable to the point of oblivion. "
Headlamps which do not direct light upwards to illuminate road signs are ILLEGAL BY REGULATION. Try again when you've had friends paying tickets for it and being cited the regulation. You're just lucky most cops don't know the regulations. You come across one that does, you're getting pegged and heavily fined.
" 3000K isn't normal for this application."
Jeeze, I wonder why it's listed in every Haynes manual I have from my '87 Toyota Tercel to my '98 Ford Taurus, then?
" We're talking about shooting people in the face with headlights."
Apparently you're ignorant of vehicles that have headlights higher than a bumper or trunk, just because of the vehicle size. Your HID shutters DO JACK SHIT.
" It may save your job."
My job is secure as long as idiots like you exist.
"If you do have a job in automotive lighting, you shouldn't."
Says the person that's been wrong on every possible point trying to be made. What a laugh.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
All HID systems are self levelling. It's just that self levelling only works in 90% of the cases. Pothole? Doesn't work. Going over a gradually changing slope? Doesn't work. And perhaps the worst part: car becomes ~10 years old and self-levelling system has experienced sensor failure? You're officially a safety hazard.
And it only takes that one second to spoil your night vision for the next two-three minutes. In a city, it may not be a problem, but when you're driving through the forests of northern Sweden and you really want your night vision at its best to spot any moose crossing the road, it's bloody dangerous to have someone's low-beam HID blind you.
IMO, HID should be disallowed for all low beams, and should be freely available for all high beams. This would solve all the problems, except new cars would not look as "cool" as they do today.
for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
available steered headlights... the lights turn with the wheel
Yeah, this again. IIRC, Lincoln and Cadillacs used to have this feature in the 80s. There's a reason it never caught on then, and that's because it's not very useful.
for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
"LED performance, unlike other lighting performance, drops with heat."
Yes, but if you look at the replacement bulbs, they're not the high-power 1W or greater diodes. They're usually an array of .25w or .5w diodes, (which don't get very warm in the first place, like 60C junction temp, and tend to be more efficient than most 1w counterparts) on a tubular aluminum heat sink.
"The proper form factor is wide and tall,"
Depending upon the form factor, like a cylinder, tall IS deep. Like most direct-replacement LED headlamp bulbs. There isn't a problem at all.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.