Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Life After N900?
Rydia writes "Since it first released, I have been in love with my Nokia N900, and it has satisfied all my needs for a mobile with a high degree of control and utility. Sadly, the little guy is showing his age, both in battery life (even with the powersaving kernel options enabled), and performing in general has been left far, far in the dust by phones that are now considered quite old. The time has come to find its successor, but after a thorough search of smartphone options, I can't find any handset that offers everything for the power user that the N900 did (much less a hardware keyboard). I'd like to avoid supporting Google/Android, but there don't seem to be many options. Have any other techies found a replacement for their N900?"
I'd like to avoid supporting Google/Android, but there don't seem to be many options.
Why against Google and Android?
It's a niche project, but looks like getting a good techie phone is niche these days. Uses N900 displays and casing, so resolution is not getting any better, but has lots more processing power.
Jolla might be an option once they get the QWERTY "other half" available.
Oh god yes please. Sometimes I have to do some amount of scripting on my phone, and a hardware keyboard is a complete necessity. On the Android side, I've gone from a Samsung Epic to a Motorola Photon, but I can't find a good next upgrade path. At this point I don't care about Android or iPhone or anything as long as I can get a slide-out keyboard with brackets on the keys.
I got one from preordering and I really like it a lot. If the thing you like in n900 is the community and the hackability, you will like Jolla too. Most importantly, I'm able to use it as my work phone already, so it's not just a plaything. So far there has been a steady stream of updates and apps. If you are in US, getting one is probably not very easy, but maybe you can get one from ebay or something? (Check the frequencies etc. first.)
http://jolla.com/
There's a Neo900 project attempting to make a modernized version of the N900, software and hardware. I don't know if they'll succeed and be able to do it at a price one can afford, but you might check it out if interested. If you don't visit maemo.org forums you might wish to.
I like my N9, but not the way I loved my N900. I especially miss the h/w keyboard.
There's also the Jolla phone, but its availability and network compatibility is limited now (e.g. current version might work in the US but as 2G only, the only modem offered in it is designed for European market, or part thereof, no idea what rest of the world situation would be like). And again, no h/w keyboard.
I am not a crackpot.
This has already been debunked as false, so stop repeating it.
Have any other techies found a replacement for their N900?"
A sledgehammer, but it really is a poor substitute. They aren't as strong as the N900 was. As I understand it, the replacement program for the Space Shuttle suffered a major setback after they were discontinued; they're having to rely on conventional heat shielding now to re-enter the atmosphere.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Hats off to you, sir, for holding out longer than I could with my Palm T|X.
Currently I'm rather happy with CyanogenMOD on my HTC myTouch Slide 4G (and the slide 3G before that). Too bad they haven't updated the myTouch Slide line for a while, since they'd carve out a nice little niche for themselves being one of the only major Android manufacturers that did physical keyboards.
I'm about to break down and just get a Nexus something, and pair it with an external portable keyboard (there are various cases that help make this more portable).
Also, I think you'd enjoy running full ARM linux on an Android device, but look at the forums for :/
https://play.google.com/store/...
and check which ROMs support the loopback module (or make sure you can build one for yourself). Not all of my third-party ROMs bothered to do this, so I only have a full chroot Debian distro behind one or two of my Android devices
But let us know how you turn out! My musings were plopped down here:
http://trumblings.blogspot.com...
and maybe a few more relevant posts here:
http://trumblings.blogspot.com...
especially so if you buy one of the many chinese phones sold as carrier-own handsets in Europe (most made by ZTE) - pretty good average spec, much faster than an N900, better screens, fairly minimal Android installs
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
Buying an andriod phone doesn't really mean supporting google.
Yeah, it does. You then get fully monetized by the Google ad collective even mores than non-Android users. TAANSTAFL.
It was shit. I didn't really realise quite how shit it was until I upgraded to an iPhone. Never looked back since.
It's not a phone for the general population. The N900 was a phone for hackers, developers, etc.: people who needed a pocket computer with phone functionality. Sort of the "anti-iPhone" in its philosophy. You were clearly not in the (tiny) target demographic, and whoever sold you yours was not your friend, didn't know you very well, or didn't as the right questions. (I just described a salesman, didn't I?)
I am not a crackpot.
Maybe because he doesn't like the idea of his private life being a product that is sold to the highest bidder? Just a guess.
Ironically a quick glance through your private posts, shows your continued subterfuge about Google *selling* your data. Google business model is to *NEVER* sell your data. Advertising is the product. If they sold your data they wouldn't have a product.
Almost everyone here understands the model, yet you persist in this transparent lie. Interestingly search Microsoft's and Apple EULA using the search for what they do with trusted *cough* third partys.
Congratulations, you made it far longer than I did. My N900 started to show hardware problems about a year ago, and radio problems/disconnects were the last straw. I loved the versatility and control, but ultimately I needed the damn thing to make calls and browse. I nabbed a Nexus 4 when they got cheap, and have adjusted reasonably well. I had a fair look at the iDevices, but wanted something faster and with a bigger screen. I coveted the Galaxy Note series, and might have been happier that way, but I wanted something closer to the N900 size. Recently got my kid a Moto G -- and currently it seems to be the best deal reminiscent of the size/screen of the N900. But still there is the lack of a hardware keyboard... there's just no substitute for input-intensive apps. Maybe Jolla will solve that.
If you do head in the direction of Android, these might make it easier:
- Have a look at Cyanogenmod, and see if you can find a sweet spot with hardware you like and a recent version.
- Read up on App Ops, the utility that allows one to have granular permissions for applications, and restore a modicum of privacy control.
- Don't be afraid to disable all the default apps/Google+/hangouts/crap. Android works just fine with the processes disabled.
- Have a look at bare android/Samsung's overlays/cyanogenmod before you commit to them, there are significant differences.
- Try getting an older phone and experimenting with it before you jump. I obtained a Galaxy S1/Vibrant, learned all about the boot loaders, firmware, and OS installation, and tried out various roms before settling back on Cyanogenmod. (Then I taught the kids how to do it, and gave the phone to my 10yo -- never too early for mobile hacking.) All of the features aside, the process restored some of the sense of control that I had with the N900. Some of it real, some of it not, but at least I knew were I stood wrt the device I was using most frequently.
I think not...(*poof*)
My Nokia E5 was similarly out of date. Since I use my phone generally for texting, email, twitter I didn't need a big screen but do need a keyboard to be happy. I was not enthused about committing to the BlackBerry platform due to the perceived financial issues, but BBRY has already released a few updates and app support is good enough for me. BlackBerry has taken care of me so far.
And the keyboard is incredible - not just passable, but enjoyable to type on.
If you're really bent on having a hardware keyboard, the Blackberry Q10 is pretty decent. There's zero apps for it, but I guess you didn't mind if you held on to your N900 for so long.
Otherwise, get a ridiculously overpowered/underpriced android phone like a Wiko. They got for like $200 without a plan and run a recent Android on very decent hardware. This way you can try it out without sinking too much money into a samsung or htc phone if it turns out you can't stand Android.
Currently, they seem to be the best option If you want to avoid supporting google. Personally, I'm sticking with my N900. I wouldn't mind something newer but don't see a need to spend a lot of money when my N900 still works fine.
agreed to an extent. it was first gen phone, that needed a couple more generations to get it all right. However, the basic idea of the n900 was awesome, and still exceeds what I see on the market today.
Easy enough. Get any recent phone that's supported by Cyanogenmod. Install Cyanogenmod. Then install Debian (or similar). This can be accomplished as a dual boot or as a chroot inside Android. I have Debian installed on my phone; it's kind of fun to dabble with and show people.
you think the name will stick? I don't. They crapped over the RIM brand, and had to drop it for BB, and BB now is getting all crapped over as obsolete and slow and cheap. Nortel, which was a much bigger company totally disappeared in a flash, and they had a pretty good reputation.
BB just seems to be hanging on kind of pointlessly. They are selling their building to get some more quick cash, and seem to be burning through it at a good pace. I suppose they could limp along for a while longer selling cheap phones to asia/africa, but that's just revenue, it won't make them any money or get them any bigger.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Or how about because Google are a few steps shy of becoming Weyland Yutani? I understand a corporation has to diversify, eggs and baskets and all that, but it doesn't mean I have to support them in that effort.
Neo900 OpenMoko GTA04-based platform in N900 slider-case. Support many Linux distros, may be interest OpenSource SW & HW hackers.
Monoblock Jolla Phone with a SailFish OS -- more user-oriented platform designed by former NOKIA Maemo/MeeGo developers.
Its got (or will have once it goes on sale) all the good things about a N900 plus a faster CPU (not as fast as the latest iPhone or Android device though), better cellular radios and more.
It's follow-up, N9 sold millions without ANY marketing whatsoever - Elop specifically forbid any kind of marketing for it, suggesting that you are utterly incorrect in your rather strange assumption.
On thing to consider is getting a Bluetooth keyboard. You can also use a regular USB keyboard with most any smart phone with a USB OTG cable. Of course, carrying around a separate keyboard may not be convenient depending on how you use the device. I would think someone probably makes a small Bluetooth keyboard designed to be carried with a phone.
Hmmm. Maybe I should Google that? Hey, what do you know? You can get a Bluetooth keyboard that is designed to attach to your smart phone, sliding out just like a built-in keyboard would.
I haven't used one, but with a number of options available, this is likely the best route to go. You might want a small one that you carry with you, and a full-sized one that you keep at home or work for more extensive use.
It's got a hardware keyboard, Linux underneath, homebrew scene going strong and a bunch of apps that you might find useful, ymmv. Battery life is 3 days with powersaver and data switching on/off on demand. Really everything you could ask for if you want a decent specced/priced smartphone which is a bit newer than your n900, sports a great capacitive touchscreen and since obsolete ecosystems seem to be your thing, welcome on board: www.http://webosnation.com
https://developer.mozilla.org/...
"You can also get Ubuntu Touch."
Spoken just like someone that has not used Ubuntu Touch.
If you dont like to make or receive phone calls, Use ubuntu touch.
If you dont like internet connectivity Use ubuntu touch.
If you LIKE your phone locking up, Use ubuntu touch.
Also when you actually look at ubuntu touch, it's just Android with a UI stapled on top but with no apps, and no functionality.
What he is after is a Nexus 5 that has a pure android on it.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Agreed. A rooted Android phone with a decent mod on it is as close as you can get to a Unix box in your pocket. The lack of a physical keyboard is a drag, but with a decent stock keyboard replacement like SwiftKey, it is not the end of the world.
I recently put Cyanogenmod on my droid razr and actually got geeked out on my phone again. Everything just works like it should. The ROMs that come from the phone companies are bloated and inefficient. Do not make the mistake of judging the Android ecosystem by what you see in the stores.
There are even some useful utilities for Android. (http://ultimatepeter.com/freakin-cool-hacking-apps-for-android/)
No need to virtualise, one can run it in a chroot.
"To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am right."
Does your N900 cast Fire or summon Odin?
Agreed. A rooted Android phone with a decent mod on it is as close as you can get to a Unix box in your pocket. The lack of a physical keyboard is a drag, but with a decent stock keyboard replacement like SwiftKey, it is not the end of the world.
What about the OpenPandora? That's an actual linux box in your pocket, keyboard included.
10 PRINT "SCUNTHORPE"(2 TO 5): GO TO 10
You want great hardware with a LOT of software options and a high degree of hackability?
Buy an iPhone (or iPad mini) and jailbreak it.
You aren't feeding your personal information to advertisers or Google. You have great customization of privacy per-app, built in - which you can further customize with jailbreak utilities.
Furthermore NO device is as hackable in the correct sense of the word as the iPhone is, because most apps are written in ObjectiveC if you want to modify some small aspect of an existing app you can do so.
If you really need a hardware keyboard, key a good Bluetooth keyboard (just as you would with any Android device as pretty much all of them are touchscreen only now).
You also get a lot of great VNC and terminal options on iOS that you can simply buy.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I bought it on ebay about a year ago and I love it. Why do you need to replace your N900 if it works? And if it doesn't work, why not buy another one? I'm sure you can find one online.
I'd like to avoid supporting Google/Android
Why? Is there something technical you're opposed to or is this simply a case of "I hate Big Corp X"? I'm not trolling, but frankly speaking I can't think of any reason to hate Google that doesn't lead one to also hate Apple or Microsoft, and that pretty much rules out your options for smartphones. If you simply dislike them then fine, but without telling us WHAT it is you dislike or WHY you're avoiding that company, we really can't make any adequate suggestions as to an alternative.
Lot of mainstream android phone can have a physical keyboard casing, I got one for me s3 on dx.com very usefull to have a full keyboard with a small package.
Easy enough. Get any recent phone that's supported by Cyanogenmod. Install Cyanogenmod. Then install Debian (or similar). This can be accomplished as a dual boot or as a chroot inside Android.
Or as neither. /Removable/Foo for both Android and Debian apps, as well as the ability to use Debian programs (e.g. text editor) in the Android hierarchy. You can get the same functionality with enough bind mounts, but debian-kit makes it a lot simpler IMO.
I like Sven-Ola's debian kit which takes advantage of the (mostly) disjoint directory structure of Android and Debian (or rather LSB) to run Debian and Android in the same root. The benefit over chroot is that you can plug in a USB drive, SD card, etc. and instantly have access in
I'd also recommend zshaolin for those looking for a friendly *n*x environment without installing a whole distribution, or if they don't have and can't/won't get root access.
Ugh. Androids drivers are a mess and cyanogen just makes that more apparent. My n900 has a specialized kernel, injection and monitor mode, overclocking, and they even made better camera drivers. With cyanogen mod the opposite happens...things break. Some hardware just completely is unusable. Android is nothing at all like the n900 was, and google will never let that happen anyway. Nor do the manufacturers want it.
As for Debian on an android? Yo dawg, i heard you like Linux, but since you can't have Linux we put some virtualized Linux in your virtualized Linux.
I'm reasonably certain Google does not give a hoot what you do with your android phone. Manufacturers and more commonly, carriers, are the ones that do not want you messing about. See Google Nexus. Your carrier is going to want you messing about with a maemo phone just as much as they want you messing about with android or iOS devices.
I run cyanogen. Sometimes things break. How often depends on ow well supported your device is. It's not the end of the world, or hasn't been for me so far. Much like Linux on a non mainstream device, stability depends on the combined efforts of the development community and the manufacturer. For someone capable of and interested in modifying an OS kernel, I find it hard to believe this would be a roadblock.
Consider buying a new battery. Most laptop and cell phone batteries last between 200 and 400 charge cycles before their life gets too short.
Agreed. A rooted Android phone with a decent mod on it is as close as you can get to a Unix box in your pocket. The lack of a physical keyboard is a drag, but with a decent stock keyboard replacement like SwiftKey, it is not the end of the world.
I recently put Cyanogenmod on my droid razr and actually got geeked out on my phone again. Everything just works like it should. The ROMs that come from the phone companies are bloated and inefficient. Do not make the mistake of judging the Android ecosystem by what you see in the stores.
There are even some useful utilities for Android. (http://ultimatepeter.com/freakin-cool-hacking-apps-for-android/)
Bluetooth Keyboard. http://www.logitech.com/en-us/... is what I use
Or you could get something much cheaper like this: http://www.amazon.com/Bluetoot...
There are also cell phone cases with integrated Bluetooth keyboards to turn many phones into "sliders".
Chroot's still aren't as good. My N900 could run some games I made using PyGAME (all I had to do was something like sudo apt-get install python-pygame) and it was good to go - ran the game just as well as my laptop did, with acceleration. Beautiful.
Unfortunately my N900 screen broke for a second time last year, and I threaded one of the screws trying to replace it, so I too found myself looking for a replacement phone. Even with overclocking the N900 was painfully slow on complex websites, so I wanted something modern but with a hardware keyboard. I couldn't find anything except possibly the Neo900 (which didn't have an ETA at the time - and I wouldn't have been able to wait for anyway), so I decided that I would get the biggest screen I could find - the logic being that if I have to use a virtual keyboard I want it to provide an experience as close to a hardware keyboard as possible.
Hence, I now run a Sony Xperia Z Ultra with the Hacker's Keyboard. Obviously not as good as a hardware keyboard, but the screen size means the virtual keyboard can fit all keys I had on the N900 (and then some) and still have plenty of room to see the text-box I'm typing into.
The Xperial Z Ultra also has expandable storage so a chroot is feasible, and I admit I've used this phone much more than my N900 due to it being more practical for games, e-mail, taking pictures, etc. Sony also provide instructions on unlocking the bootloader. However, lacking a true GNU userland environment for the primary OS, along with lacking the ease of gaining root and lacking a replaceable battery) are things I really miss. I also hate how much of the bloatware cannot be removed, although it can be disabled. It is waterproof though, so it's got that going for it.
I nuked or disabled almost everything related to Sony and Google Play and installed F-Droid instead, and then proceeded to install Firefox Mobile, K-9 and APG, Xabber, TTRSS-Reader, VLC, Open Explorer, Barcode Scanner, Terminal Emulator, Cool Reader, Document Viewer, Aard, OsmAnd~, ScummVM, AnkiDroid, World Clock, VX ConnectBot, a few ownCloud-related sync apps... and of course Frozen Bubble, and now Android can do most of the things I would have used my N900 for.
It's GNU/Linux dammit!
Even for non-hackers, it had substantial advantages over the iPhone 3GS at the time. This was the days of IOS3, when copy&paste was considered a cutting-edge feature, and multi-tasking was only allowed for Apple's own built-in apps.
Only later when the iphone4 with retina display, and IOS4 came out, did the n900 start looking old.
Of course there was a price in thickness and weight for all the extra hardware features of the n900.
I think it's important to establish what makes the N900 great. Can't speak for the OP, but this is what I'm hoping for in a phone once my N900 finally gives up the ghost. "Hoping," notice I said, but I'm not holding my breath.
1. Scriptability. First and foremost. *I* want to be the one in control of the phone, not some app developer vetted by The Place That Decides What You Can Do With Our --I Mean Your-- Phone (or "AppStore" for short). I want to write a bash script, or a python script, and tell me when my beloved has sent me a SMS containing the word "URGENT".
2. Freedom. Yes, I mean openness as in open source. Yes, I do know not everything in the N900 was open-sourced, but a heck of a lot of it was. That let a lot of people hack it, for the benefit of the community. And it didn't void the warranty. There's something to be said for a phone that does not need you to join the Apple club with a credit card, or sign up with Big Brother Google before using the phone -- you really are independent.
3. Portability of software. It's awesome that I can run Gnumeric on this thing, but even more important that I run Vim.
4. Three things you can change: the cell phone provider, the battery, and the memory storage card. Mainly a criticism compared to the early iPhones; not sure if they still apply. I understand that there are unlocked iPhones now (which still cost more than the N900 did) but you can't change the battery. Android phones will take microSD now, I think?
In fact, to lower my chances of being forced to make do without a good alternative, I bought a second N900, and regularly synchronize the spare so I can have it up and running in case it's needed quickly. I wasn't seeing anything on the horizon, and figured I'd probably have to hang on to my pair of N900's for at least another 3 years. This Slashdot discussion is very useful.
There are, of course, lots to hate about the N900. Most of it deals with the slow swapping caused by the relatively small RAM, versus the large RAM that would be needed by a truly multitasking computer/smartphone. (Compare this with the iPhone that was out at the time, which did not multitask. Do iPhones multitask yet?) The user interface is also unintuitive and poorly thought out. Wish it had been given a chance, but once Elop came on board, there was zero chance of that.
As I've said before, the N900 is a piece of crap --but it's the BEST piece of crap in the world!
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
No. I can't speak for the GP but I was definitely in the target demographic and the n900 was shit.
I've been a programmer for about 30 years, my normal environment is vim and a shell. The keyboard and screen size on the n900 were too compromised to make it an effective or productive environment. During the couple of years that I had it I took in on holiday once and spent two weeks on a beach trying to write code on it. After I got back I rewrote the two weeks of coding in about an hour. Trying to code on a hunt and peck thumb board that required escapes for most punctuation symbols was a waste of time.
Since then I've been very happy with an iPhone 4 as the touchscreen keyboard is equally effective / ineffective as the hardware keyboard. My next foray into a portable coding environment will be a glass competitor with better specs, a unix environment and some kind of twiddled interface although I am hoping the myo armband pans out.
Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
Scriptability. First and foremost. *I* want to be the one in control of the phone [maemo.org], not some app developer vetted by The Place That Decides What You Can Do With Our --I Mean Your-- Phone (or "AppStore" for short). I want to write a bash script, or a python script, and tell me when my beloved has sent me a SMS containing the word "URGENT".
You may want to check out Tasker, it does this sort of stuff.
Freedom. Yes, I mean openness as in open source. Yes, I do know not everything in the N900 was open-sourced,
Then whats the problem with Android?
http://neo900.org/
Seems like the best alternative for a hacker right now.
The rest was true on the October release when I tried it last. and they have not released anything different cince then then. Last time I tried to compile a daily release it refused to compile, at that point I walked away from it as something that is worthless.
Phone calls are #1 priority, and an incoming phone call MUST have absolute priority over all other parts of the OS. These developers dont know that, the craptastic OpenMoko phone from a few years ago had the same problems. I honestly would give an app 2 rings to die and release control, on ring #3 all apps not sleeping should be violently killed by the OS, and reported to the mothership that it is misbehaving causing a UI problem to the phone.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The lazy assed "I don't want to do my own research" author.
Of course he's going to have to make some choices. But when making such choices, it's helpful to have a feel for how well the devices work in practice, for the intended use: I've had plenty of devices in the past that, according to their specs at least, were perfect - but ended up being frustratingly deficient in some way. Reading online reviews can help with this to some extent, but they tend not to focus on (say) programming as a use case - so I can imagine that input from slashdotters would be very valuable here. (It's also really helpful for pointing out phones/other devices that the author may not have considered, that don't necessarily come up in a typical web search...)
Need to type accents and special characters in Windows? Use FrKeys
Well, I can certainly agree that it's under-spec at this point in time. Problem is that there's still no competition out there that matches what it can do even with the low-power. Full keyboard, game controls and a desktop linux installation? There aren't any cell-phones that to my knowledge can do all that and still fit in your pocket without external peripherals.
10 PRINT "SCUNTHORPE"(2 TO 5): GO TO 10
Well for me, I also try to avoid android. Not because I have an aversion against google (my enthousiasm since the first gmail account has cooled but has not turned to hatered or anything).
I simply don't seem to find my way around an android device very well.
I have currently a nokia N9 and I could imagine switching to windows phone, but android allways throws me off. No matter how may layers of UI they put on top of it, it never seems to give me an aura of simplicity. My wife has an android based phone. She is regularly puzzeled and muttering things like "why isn't this working". But contrary to me she just carries on and works around it.