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Graphene Conducts Electricity Ten Times Better Than Expected

ananyo writes "Physicists have produced nanoribbons of graphene — the single-atom-thick carbon — that conduct electrons better than theory predicted even for the most idealized form of the material (abstract). The finding could help graphene realize its promise in high-end electronics, where researchers have long hoped it could outperform traditional materials such as silicon. In graphene, electrons can move faster than in any other material at room temperature. But techniques that cut sheets of graphene into the narrow ribbons needed to form wires of a nano-scale circuit leave ragged edges, which disrupt the electron flow. Now a team led by physicist Walt de Heer at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta has made ribbons that conduct electric charges for more than 10 micrometres without meeting resistance — 1,000 times farther than in typical graphene nanoribbons. The ribbons made by de Heer's team in fact conduct electrons ten times better than standard theories of electron transport they should, say the authors."

161 comments

  1. In other news... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    Apparently carbon isn't very good at introspection...

    1. Re:In other news... by emmagsachs · · Score: 0

      Neither is Dice.

    2. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In related news...

      FUCK BETA
      (buck feta)

  2. Re: Beta delenda est! by emmagsachs · · Score: 0

    Would you like to subscribe to my newsletter?

  3. Re:Beta delenda est! by jellomizer · · Score: 0

    Beta will be gone when they put it in full Production.

    Instead of being an ass, Clearly post your issues to the correct authority, instead of spamming the message boards over and over again.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  4. Re:fuckwit by emmagsachs · · Score: 2

    Beta turned me into a newt!

  5. Re:fUCK BETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, Altslashdot.org while the name is only tentative and a better name will replace it, it is a greenlight project and has already gotten a lot of interest. DICE killed what was good about slashdot (the community) and the people have spoken, they want the old slashdot and the people are making it happen. Slashdot was FOR the people by the people and that's what project altslashdot is about.

    DICE will without a doubt go in their own direction and with that said, they don't care about its current audience but want to tailor to a broader but bigger audience. We get it, it's for the money, not for the people. Ultimately those that were around for a long time will likely want a new home which seems pretty understandable after the mistreatment. It's up to the community to decide but we'll see how it goes. Good luck dice!

  6. Re:Beta delenda est! by Laxori666 · · Score: 0

    So was that post enough to turn the tide so people started modding these down, or are the powers-that-be modding these down to make it look like that post was enough?

  7. Re:fUCK BETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At this point I think the damage is done, and any attempt to fix it is too little, too late. I have no doubt left that slashdot is over, or as Python, Monty might say:

    'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This SLASHDOT is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the BETA 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-SLASHDOT!!

  8. Re:About the beta. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very much so and thanks for your contribution. DICE will not listen, but altslashdot.org will listen. The name is tentative but the goal is clear: community first.

  9. Re:fUCK BETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We should also make a list of alternative sites where /. users can go for their news.

    Post it here...

  10. Re:Beta delenda est! by emmagsachs · · Score: 0

    A. Crap, by any other name, stills smells like crap.

    B. Slashdot, without its high quality comments, has no appeal.

    C. Vote for the worst!

  11. How about making Macroscopic wires? by DickBreath · · Score: 1

    How soon before they can commercialize it to produce macroscopic wires that are used outside of an IC package?

    Then produce big enough cables of wire to deliver electricity long distance?

    And produce these wires economically?

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    1. Re:How about making Macroscopic wires? by glwtta · · Score: 1

      Is transmission speed an issue with long distance electrical cables?

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    2. Re:How about making Macroscopic wires? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It is if you're moving data, but not for delivery of power (faster wires won't make your stereo sound better or toast your bread any faster).

      I doubt it's faster than fiber, though.

    3. Re:How about making Macroscopic wires? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Graphene has very high conductivity for what it is: a monoatomic layer. This is important in ICs where certain material thicknesses are in the nanometres. Also graphene has a very specific and uniform thickness, which solves uniformity problem when trying to deposit 1 nm material uniformly across 300 mm wafers. But when you can afford to increase the thickness (in macroscopic systems), metals become much more conductive than "macroscopic grahene," which is just regular graphite and is not so conductive. Actually graphite is used as electronic resistors and in certain heater elements (as it is conductive enough to pass large currents, but resistive enough to heat a lot by Joule effect and finally stands very well high temperatures).

    4. Re: How about making Macroscopic wires? by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      I think you are missing the point, if it has less resistance there will be less lost in long distance transmission.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    5. Re:How about making Macroscopic wires? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, speed isn't an issue, but loss is. The dozens of feet from your circuit breaker to your speakers has negligible loss due to resistance, but the (maybe hundreds of) miles from the power plant to your house does incur significant loss. If these wires could be produced at a sufficient scale and economy, utilities would likely start using them instead of copper because it would save them money.

    6. Re:How about making Macroscopic wires? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The speed of propagation of signals along wires typically has more to do with its shape and the material around it (e.g. dielectric constants). For twisted pair data cables, you can gets speeds from 0.5 to 0.7c, while fibers, both typical plastic and glass ones, tend to be around 2/3 of c. You can have coax cables with propagation speeds up to 0.8 c though, and ladder lines are closer to 0.95c.

    7. Re:How about making Macroscopic wires? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is transmission speed an issue with long distance electrical cables?

      No. But power loss is...

    8. Re:How about making Macroscopic wires? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      You are conflating two seprate concepts. Graphene and bulk graphite are not the same, even though graphite is largely composed of small layers of graphene. Much of the insulation/resistive nature of the graphite is due to the poor mesh between the different pieces of graphite. If this can be solved, then it's not implausible that conductive graphite wires would be possible. I'm not sure about practical. Joining pieces of graphene while maintaining smooth edges sounds quite difficult. And you would need thousands of these wires, which would need to maintain nano-scale continuity from one end of the wire to the other. Seems a bit iffy to me. Not to mention that you couldn't join two wires in any simple way. And, IIUC, the conductivity is only along the smooth edge. So you get one-dimensional current flow, unless you use AC and depend on induction to spread the charge evenly between the wirelets.

      All in all, it doesn't sound like a very promissing application. Not this decade, and probably not the next. Within a chip wiring, however, may be a very different animal. And current flow without (much?) resistance could ameliorate one source of heating.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  12. LOL!! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be new around here.

    Precious.

  13. Re:Beta delenda est! by Joce640k · · Score: 0

    Instead of being an ass, Clearly post your issues to the correct authority, instead of spamming the message boards over and over again.

    People have been saying "Beta sucks" for ages.

    It's not just a matter of them using the wrong colors, the new comments system is unusable.

    --
    No sig today...
  14. Re:Beta delenda est! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of being an ass, Clearly post your issues to the correct authority, instead of spamming the message boards over and over again.

    People already tried that for half a year now, the powers that be have simply ignored it. The time for diplomacy is over.

  15. Graphene beaten by Beta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The conductivity of graphene pales in comparison with Beta's ability to direct users away from Slashdot.

  16. Re:We don't know that. by emmagsachs · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    If it is only a handful of disgruntled anti-Beta posters, where did all the normal comments go?

  17. BETA FAILS ON MY BROWSER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    idiots. So i can't block google analytics or i get the "NANU NANU" shit? go fuck yourselves with a fork

    1. Re:BETA FAILS ON MY BROWSER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't block google analytics and I still get nanu nanu until I press the "get more comments" 3-4 times. Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

  18. yeah, right by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

    Very much so and thanks for your contribution. DICE will not listen, but altslashdot.org will listen. The name is tentative but the goal is clear: community first.

    Yeah, right, don't you mean community first until the community doesn't like something that owner/provider doesn't like?

    If altslashdot.org users start posting porn, will that be acceptable? If they decide only whites or males should be allowed to post, will that be acceptable? The moment you post rules, you have dimminished community first, even if the community votes on them. Why? because future members of the community don't get a chance to vote on them, so really what you have is founders first, not community first.

    1. Re:yeah, right by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      Shut up Lysander Spooner.

      Creating a site with a coherent and congruent purpose for the people using it at least establishes clear compatibility for users going forward. People who agree with the founding principles will want to become involved, and people who don't can GTFO.

      And your hyperbolous mythical monsters of bigotry by a majority are extremely unlikely. How many mainstream sites do you know of that are openly racist or misogynist? And I don't mean the sort of soft bigotry of disagreement being pushed as equivalent in academia, I mean hardcore 'minorities are evil' bigotry, since that's what would be predicate to your fantasy scenarios of a white male only power structure.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
  19. 10x better than standard theory says? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am skeptical about such an extraordinary claim.

    Side note: Please, stop with the "fuck beta" campaign; I find this campaign FAR MORE DISRUPTIVE to the enjoyment of /. than the beta itself. Get over Yourselves already.

    1. Re:10x better than standard theory says? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      /. will die without Jon Katz.

    2. Re:10x better than standard theory says? by anagama · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please, stop with the "fuck beta" campaign; I find this campaign FAR MORE DISRUPTIVE to the enjoyment of /. than the beta itself

      An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Fuck beta now, or be fucked by it forever.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    3. Re:10x better than standard theory says? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is more like decapitating someone so the venom from a snake bite on their foot doesn't do brain damage... people are and will leave regardless of what happens with beta if comments are nothing but beta spam.

    4. Re:10x better than standard theory says? by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 2

      I'm skeptical about the claim as well. If it's true, that's far more exciting news than "better conductivity". It tells us our models are wrong. If we crack the puzzle, who knows what our new models could predict about new materials?

      Which is why I'm skeptical. The summary only mentions the "better conductivity", which leads me to believe "10x better than the standard theory says" is more like:
      Researcher 1: What's the conductivity going to be?
      Researcher 2: Graphene is basically just pencil lead - so run a current through a pencil and see what comes up

    5. Re:10x better than standard theory says? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, this. ^^^

  20. Re:Beta delenda est! by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

    Without the gentlemen at Playboy, there will be no naked chicks to look at.

    Spoken like a true /. member!

  21. Beta Beta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    derp beta derpa

  22. Real question by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While it is interesting to see the advances with graphene, if used to make super fast computers, isn't the "wiring" on the chip only a small part of the problem? Have they found a way to make the transistors and resistors and parts on the chip out of graphene? If not, wouldn't the speed improvements be nonexistent? It would seem that it would be like taking a super highway and bringing all the traffic down to one lane at the exits (or maybe a bridge in NJ).

    1. Re:Real question by Narcocide · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd imagine that the immediate benefits would be: lower power requirements and less heat at equivalent speeds (which can indirectly lead to higher safe clock-speeds) as well as bigger limits on max physical bus lengths due to extremely reduced latency.

    2. Re:Real question by JustinOpinion · · Score: 5, Informative

      You are correct that using graphene or carbon nanotubes (which are close cousins) only for the wiring wouldn't gain you much; especially since large resistances can arise from the junctions between two conductors/materials.

      People are certainly investigating how to turn graphene and nanotubes into transistors. There have been demonstrations of using an applied voltage to mechanically 'kink' a nanotube so that its resistance changes. Thus it can be used as a non-volatile memory element. (The kinking is reversible and fast.) Others have looked into ways to 'dope' graphene by controlling what material it is sitting on top of (which changes its electrical properties, similar to doping atoms into silicon). Things like this can be used to make transistors out of these carbon nanomaterials; and in principle to do it in a way where the conducting carbon network is unbroken.

      Of course, the devil is in the details. We've seen demonstrations of many pieces of the puzzle, but turning it all into a technology (where you can build it all easily on a single substrate, in a scalable way, etc.) is still a ways off. But there is at least a chance these materials will pan out.

      P.S.: Don't let this comment distract from the legitimate outcry against Slashdot Beta.

    3. Re:Real question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's certainly one possibility, but it depends on where the bottleneck currently is. I'm no expert, but it could be that routing traces is very difficult for high speed signals. By using this graphene, the lower resistance would make it possible to run high speed signals out of the chip.

    4. Re:Real question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Graphene has been abandoned some years ago for digital transistors as the off/on ratio is orders of magnitude below the value for emiconductors (because graphene has zero bandgap, the transistor is never completely off as it happens for semiconductors). However graphene is still a very good candidate for radiofrequency and optoelectronic analog chips in particular because of universal optical conductance in this range (all the way from MHz to near UV actually).

    5. Re:Real question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      IBM and they typical universities are making pretty decent headway into the research on these. None ready for prime time but if you really want to keep read more on these methods this site isn't bad http://www.graphene-info.com/ (http://www.graphene-info.com/tags/graphene-applications/graphene-transistors?page=1).

    6. Re:Real question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the trends are going this way: the smaller and smaller we make the transistors, the faster they can switch on/off and using fewer electrons to boot, but then we need to make the wires smaller, too, to actually get the density improvements Moore's Law *actually* predicts, and the smaller we make the wires, the more resistive they become, so then they burn more power, and the greater their parasitic capacitance becomes, so they become slower, to boot.

      We're at a point where the wiring is becoming a significant source of delay in the circuitry and needs to be modeled accurately to understand the real circuit performance, instead of ignored like before, so if we can reliably reproduce these results in fabs, it would be a *huge* boon for electronics because we can dial back the circuit complexity to the circuit diagrams we learn in college, focused only on the components, instead of also needing to worry quite a bit about where those components are and how they're connected together to determine circuit behavior.

    7. Re:Real question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While it is interesting to see the advances with graphene, if used to make super fast computers, isn't the "wiring" on the chip only a small part of the problem?

      That is the thing, isn't it? Processors are a very small part of all integrated circuits out there and not all components are limited by the same factors.
      For example there are plenty of transistors that aren't limited by the chip but by the legs of the package.

    8. Re:Real question by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      better conductor = less heat for same voltage = more voltage = more stable clocks at higher speeds = win

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  23. Re: Beta delenda est! by koreanbabykilla · · Score: 0

    I would!

  24. Re:Beta delenda est! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Beta will be gone when they put it in full Production.

    Instead of being an ass, Clearly post your issues to the correct authority, instead of spamming the message boards over and over again.

    Fuck beta!

  25. Slashdot Beta = New Coke by kensai · · Score: 0

    why mess with what works and fans love. FUCK BETA

  26. Re: Correct Authority by j-stroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I feel the loss of the comment threads as much as you jellomizer. Which is exactly what this whole thing is about. The new site model nukes the existing message board structure.

    Rather than see these as off topic posts, spamming the message boards, try the perspective that there is only one topic until this issue is resolved to the communities satisfaction and that these comments are in fact using the message boards for their intended purpose: maintaining a moderated discussion guided by the consensus generated by the readership.

    These posts have become the most effective manner of communicating to the correct authority. The correct authority in this case is the broad readership, some of whom are just learning about this. The other authority is the controlling entities who have thus far made some poor choices about not responding to the communities posts in the designated channels. Therefore this is the next step in a spectrum of responses.

    I personally apologize to you for the necessity of this step which has been provoked by the site operators. I do hope things change quickly, since I love slashdot. I am slashdot.

  27. Re:Beta delenda est! by samkass · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I've used all my mod points on "Offtopic" today. I was fine with the protest until Slashdot responded and opened a discussion area for it. Now, if you want to discuss beta, go to the beta article. Other people who care will be there, too. Maybe you can even effect positive change.

    Spamming every single discussion is, quite obviously, now Offtopic and other people with mod points seem to agree with me.

    --
    E pluribus unum
  28. FORK ./ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FORK->FORKFORK-FORK

  29. Re:We don't know that. by schneidafunk · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Probably here

    --
    Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
  30. Re:We don't know that. by glavenoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can assure you it's not the same AC over and over because AC comments are throttled by IP address.

    However, if slashdot dies because of this, it won't be because of Dice. It will be because like the dinosaurs, we couldn't adapt.

    Why should we have to adapt to garbage? I don't think anyone would refuse to adapt to a new paint scheme, it's the fact that the new site is fundamentally and functionally broken by design. The fact that dice felt now was a good time to start forcing users to something so broken shows that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what this place is about. It's not that the beta site is a little buggy, it's that it is completely broken.

    At the very least they should have waited until commenting was at functional parity before revealing their hand but now it's too late, they have revealed the direction of things to come and it does not bode well for the future of the slashdot.org domain.

    --
    I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
  31. I love it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For people who claim that science is wrong/bad/not complete - this is the kind of thing that research and study can do.

    The expected result was off by 10x. This doesn't mean that science sucks - but rather there is a new question to be answered that will allow us to understand the world just a little bit better.

    AWESOME.

    1. Re:I love it by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      Yes, the greatest advances in science haven't come about through carefully planned milestones paving the way towards a predetermined goal, but rather through someone peering at a report in surprise and saying wtf?

  32. Technical question about electricity transmission by kartaron · · Score: 1

    When electricity is conducted on a wire,are new electrons sent down the wire riding on the surface? Or are they pushed through the mass of existing electrons and cause one currently in line to bounced off the back end (like a newton's cradle)? Something Ive always wondered...

  33. Re:We don't know that. by mcgrew · · Score: 1, Informative

    The fast majority of the F*ck Beta comments are coming from ACs.

    One was mine, I don't log in or comment at work and was thrown into that mess with no way out (?&"nobeta=1" didn't work) and no way to log in.

    But yeah, many of us feared this clusterfuck would happen when a corporation bought it and Malda left. Meanwhile, slashdot's replacement is being worked on now (I registered an account this morning, user name mcgrew UID 123).

  34. Re:Beta delenda est! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A. Crap, by any other name, stills smells like crap.

    And juvenile whining and bitching, by any other name, is still juvenile whining and bitching.

    Seriously, get over your fucking self. They will either listen to us or they won't.

    But some of us are tired about you idiots constantly kvetching about it. It's not the first nor the last time Slashdot has done a redesign, and nobody liked any of the previous ones either.

    Now STFU.

  35. Re:fUCK BETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only viable path is obvious. Bring back the ponies. OMG

  36. Re:We don't know that. by anagama · · Score: 3, Insightful

    However, if slashdot dies because of this, it won't be because of Dice. It will be because like the dinosaurs, we couldn't adapt.

    Yeah, Beta is like world destroying comet, and we the inhabitants of that world.

    The real question is, in what way does the fucking beta make slashdot better? Just take one example, the ridiculous amount of whitespace around posts. That's millions of monitors burning electricity displaying absolutely nothing. Secondly, because so little information is displayed, there will be a lot more scrolling required. That will contribute to wrist and elbow problems for those who don't yet have them, and for people like me who do, aggravate them.

    Fucking beta is killing the planet and it's bad for your health. So yeah -- dinos like me are gonna bitch. Suck it up.

    --
    What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  37. Re: Beta delenda est! by mcgrew · · Score: 0

    Someone else has started new slashdot. I registered an account this morning, even though there's no real content there yet.

  38. Re:We don't know that. by bunratty · · Score: 0

    I haven't been making comments because there's no point with all the beta trash talk. Once the betatards leave, I'm sure things will get back to normal. Probably better than ever, in fact.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  39. Re:We don't know that. by TWiTfan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fast majority of the F*ck Beta comments are coming from ACs. For all we know that could be a single individual or even a bot.

    No, actually, I've been surprised by the number of real posts here against the beta, some of them with some incredibly low UID's. Much as I hate the beta, even I never expected such an overwhelming response (and, believe me, I've been around here a lot longer than my UID would indicate).

    --
    The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
  40. Re:Beta delenda est! by emmagsachs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These comments are Slashdot's response. The management-speak in the Beta article is Dice's. They made it perfectly clear that, even after all this backlash, Classic will soon be gone:

    Most importantly, we want you to know that Classic Slashdot isn't going away until we're confident that the new site is ready.

    I, too, am here for the intelligent discussion. So I do apologize. But Dice ignores our complaints, while pretending to listen. Ruining every single discussion is the only option we have left.

  41. Re:Beta delenda est! by mcgrew · · Score: 2

    Beta will be gone when they put it in full Production.

    It doesn't matter if Beta leaves or not, most of slashdot's posters will be gone when Classic is gone. I will be. If they keep Classic as an option it won't matter, we'll stay. The issue is their getting rid of Classic, not the existence of Beta.

    Instead of being an ass, Clearly post your issues to the correct authority, instead of spamming the message boards over and over again.

    It's a protest. Lets hope it's effective. I posted in the page about beta and several user journals decrying Beta, wrote a journal about it myself and wrote an email telling slashdot how much beta sucks. Answering positively to anti-beta comments may annoy you, but I think it's important and needs to be done.

    Meanwhile, I'll be looking for an alternate site. In a year this place will be as empty as kuro5hin.

  42. Re:I am in Beta Now, by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Try using bold or italics or posting a link. Try to find the URL of a comment. Log off and try to log back in, I couldn't log in at work (they use IE7).

    No, they added nothing of value and removed much of value. Does Microsoft own Dice?

  43. Re:Beta delenda est! by glavenoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not a mere redesign, it's a fundamental change in the way slashdot works by changing what slashdot is all about. They should have waited until things actually worked before revealing the beta, but as it is, by forcing users to the fundamentally broken beta site they've shown that they no longer care about the community.

    Forcing users to a completely unusable site shows nothing but contempt for the users.

    --
    I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
  44. Re:We don't know that. by bunratty · · Score: 1

    Wow, good comeback! I'm sure the site will be much better with people like you gone for good. So long!

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  45. What, exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is wrong with the comment system here?

    I've deliberately gone to beta to check it out, seems OK.

  46. Re:We don't know that. by someone1234 · · Score: 1

    What are you talking about? Dice didn't have to adapt, just keep everything unchanged and take the coin.

    --
    Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  47. Re:We don't know that. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

    They'll go away when the beta is a steaming crater in history. Part of the point of protests is to keep the apathetic crowd from enjoying a world where the specified injustice continues.

  48. Re:Beta delenda est! by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

    Well, there's always terrorism.

  49. Re:fUCK BETA by boris111 · · Score: 2

    I didn't realize what the hub bub is about until I clicked on the beta link. I'm not even the picky type and all I could say is wow this sucks!

  50. Re:We don't know that. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

    And no, my use of the phrase "injustice" isn't meant to compare the severity here to the severity of much more serious problems.

  51. Re: I think we can all agree.. by macinnisrr · · Score: 1

    And you are an asshole. Pot -> kettle.

  52. Re:We don't know that. by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 1

    Funny they state part of their goal is NOT to poach from slashdot. Which is what you are encouraging.

  53. Re:We don't know that. by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

    However, if slashdot dies because of this, it won't be because of Dice. It will be because like the dinosaurs, we couldn't adapt.

    Well, first, why should a user base be required to "adapt" to a broken system? If they functionality they want goes away, they'll go somewhere else. Try to learn from other mistakes or you will die. Just check out all the comments there, most are along the lines of "Well it's too little and too late, me and all my friends have gone elsewhere."

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  54. Re:We don't know that. by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

    However, if slashdot dies because of this, it won't be because of Dice. It will be because like the dinosaurs, we couldn't adapt.

    Well, first, why should a user base be required to "adapt" to a broken system? If they functionality they want goes away, they'll go somewhere else. Try to learn from other mistakes or you will die. Just check out all the comments there, most are along the lines of "Well it's too little and too late, me and all my friends have gone elsewhere."

    Hmmm... linky failed. Should have been this

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  55. Re: I think we can all agree.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AKA "Fuck You, Clown."

    I like your style.

  56. Re:We don't know that. by schneidafunk · · Score: 1

    Funny because the reason it started, and its name, implies they will be poaching from the slashdot community.

    --
    Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
  57. Re:Technical question about electricity transmissi by oldhack · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hey slashdot, keep the javascript-free version.

    It's been decades since I took solid state physics courses, but here's what I remember.

    Conducting solid, like metal, is modeled as a single monolithic entity as opposed to a set of individual elemental atoms. Each atom's high(est) energy electrons become "free" electrons that can move about the whole solid with minimum provocation (i.e., voltage). So when electric field or voltage is applied across the solid, these free electrons bunch up towards positive charge - i.e. the "skin" you referred to.

    Because, you know, electrons have a negative charge. Haha.

    So when voltage is applied to the solid, and there is a route out of the solid towards positive charge, the free electrons will move that way. If there is also a route into the solid through which new (to the solid) electrons move in, then you have a circuit where electrons flow in and out of the solid (as you say) along the skin, and hence you have current.

    That's what I remember of the simple version of solid state model that look at solid's free electrons as a group. Because the free electrons are treated as a group, it doesn't deal with whether the electron that just popped out are new (to the solid) one or the last one in line - the model doesn't give individuality to each electrons.

    Not sure it answers your question adequately, but that's what popped into my head. Maybe others will do a more proper job.

    Like I was saying, KEEP THE JAVASCRIPT-FREE SLASHDOT, you dirtbags! :-)

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  58. Re:fuckwit by Twike · · Score: 1

    It turned you into a newt?

  59. Theoretical flaw, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's very great news for graphene and everything that could be built out of it.
    But didn't these results just invalidate a theory? Is there someone that is actually looking why the current theory fails to explain the observed behavior?

    1. re: Theoretical flaw, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry - but your comment is getting in the way of all the Fuck Beta! discussion. Despite your valid points (at least on reading the summary of the article), having though provoking questions just won't work right now.

      I do however agree with you, this shows either an error in the theoretical underpinnings of the current theory if and only if the results can be reliably duplicated. Let's verify that it is happening like stated before tearing apart a theory that works (so far).

  60. Re:fuckwit by emmagsachs · · Score: 1

    ... I got better.

  61. Re:We don't know that. by fliptout · · Score: 1

    What replacement?

    --
    A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
  62. Re:We don't know that. by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    What are you talking about? Dice didn't have to adapt, just keep everything unchanged and take the coin.

    Slashdot wasn't profitable, so exactly what choice does Dice have for their shareholders. It is either trying to make it profitable, by attracting new users (thus increasing advertising revenue) or shutting it down. Dice most certainly had to adapt. In business, if you don't adapt to the changing environment, well, you aren't in business long.

    Now, whether this particular adaptation was the correct one, that's open for debate.

  63. Boycotts Dont Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Talk to them in terms they can understand -- go to classic mode and continually click-through all of the ads. But given the track record of the UI, they are probably too dumb to see where the bump in the ad traffic is from.

  64. New material?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In graphene, electrons can move faster than in any other material at room temperature.

    Is it really a "new material?" Isn't it just 1 atom thick graphite? If I had a sheet of 1 atom thick silver... can I call it a new material, "silvene," and claim it is 100 times more conductive than any other material at an arbitrary temperature?

  65. Re:Beta delenda est! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Forcing users to a completely unusable site shows nothing but contempt for the users."

    No one is forcing anyone to do anything you childish fuck.

  66. so graphene... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is this article about graphene or as the comments suggest, about Beta?

  67. Re:We don't know that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny they state part of their goal is NOT to poach from slashdot. Which is what you are encouraging.

    That word "encouraging", I do not think it means what you think it means.

    emmagsachs: "Where are all the normal comments?"
    schneidafunk: "Probably over here."

    See, that is not an encouragement to go there, that is merely an answer to a question. For the obligatory godwin, if someone in Nazi Germany asked me where all the Jews were, and I replied with "probably Aushwitz", that is not me encouraging mass genocide, that is me answering a question about where I think the Jews were. The only way it could be called encouragement is if I added "like they should be" or something similar to the end.

  68. Re:I think we can all agree.. by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 1

    I can only speak for myself, but this is a great troll and I personally look forward to seeing it spammed in every article. While it probably doesn't have the staying power of GNAA or the indomitable "Netcraft Confirms It", it's the first solid troll of "Beta sucks" I've seen. You're the first - or at least the very best - to take advantage of a brief window of passion in a typically dry setting. Depending on how this thing plays out you could very possibly be the Last Great Troll of the /. era.

    My heartfelt thanks on reminding me what makes Slashdot...Slashdot.

  69. Re: I think we can all agree.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps so, but I agree with his sentiment. Trying to find meaningful comments amongst all the beta complaints is annoying. People can go elsewhere if they don't like it. Stop ruining slashdot for the people who don't care that you are upset.

  70. Re:Beta delenda est! by glavenoid · · Score: 1

    Burn baby, burn!!

    --
    I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
  71. Re:Technical question about electricity transmissi by marcosdumay · · Score: 2

    The electrons are always moving, and fast, very fast, on all directions, with a zero average speed. Electrical current appears when their average velocity goes slightly above zero.

    It's not one electron bouncing in another that causes the movement, all electrons are equaly pushed by a potential. Bouncing is one of the causes of resistivity. What this istudy did was reducing bouncing to the point it become negligible, with the expected impact on resistivity.

    I hope that answers. It's like none of your options.

  72. Re:We don't know that. by runeghost · · Score: 1

    We don't know that those predictions will come true. The fast majority of the F*ck Beta comments are coming from ACs. For all we know that could be a single individual or even a bot.

    Slashdot has always had disgruntled people participate with it. But a lot of postings by an AC really are worthless to base anything on.

    However, if slashdot dies because of this, it won't be because of Dice. It will be because like the dinosaurs, we couldn't adapt.

    Fine, here's one more non-AC comment. Beta ought to go to hell. I'll read classic Slashdot or no Slashdot.

  73. Slashdot beta works ten times worse than expected by FuzzNugget · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    And we expected it to be pretty bad.

    Fuck beta.

  74. Re:We don't know that. by multimediavt · · Score: 2

    The real question is, in what way does the fucking beta make slashdot better?

    More room for ads. That's the only thing that anyone could say is better about BETA. FUCK, ASS! Sorry, meds wearing off. This sight has a distinctive look that should not be dismissed given the seeming proclivity to make the site look like a crappy copy of Engadget.com. FUCK BETA, ASS! It's look and feel are its brand identity. Anyone with half a semester of Marketing 101 would know this. FUCK, FUCK FUCK BETA! And the idiots that said, "Yes, let's do that!" Tards!

  75. Re:We don't know that. by multimediavt · · Score: 1

    Oops, used the wrong, FUCK BETA! noun up there. Site, not sight. What happens when you are egregiously pissed off at blatant stupidity. FUCK!

  76. Re:We don't know that. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    altslashdot.org, someone started it a day or two ago. Not much there yet.

  77. I have an incredibly low UID by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    Beta sucks

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
    1. Re:I have an incredibly low UID by puddles · · Score: 1

      Didn't quite sign on early back in the days, but yeah, beta sucks.

  78. Protests will die, but that won't mean acceptance. by Valdrax · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Side note: Please, stop with the "fuck beta" campaign; I find this campaign FAR MORE DISRUPTIVE to the enjoyment of /. than the beta itself. Get over Yourselves already.

    It will die down on its own eventually as people grow tired of yelling and not being heard. We don't live in an age in which protests are appreciated or encouraged anymore. Unfortunately, this will probably lead the powers to be behind the site design to believe that this meant it was just a vocal minority and that the majority of Slashdot is chill with the redesign or have "come around" on it. That will be wrong, but such self-delusion is inevitable.

    There's obviously heavy personal investment in the time and energy (and money) in creating the new Beta site. It isn't going to go away, despite being a terrible idea, because the people behind it won't be able to admit for various personal and professional reasons that they've f'ed up royally. So, in their minds, they'll have to build a fortress of arguments to shore up their position. No doubt they're smart people, so they'll probably be really good at rationalization. In my professional experience, once people have started working on a design they helped create, they get very territorial and hard to move in new directions.

    The end result is a train wreck we can all see coming. What people is the equivalent of yelling at someone on a screen not to go in the cabin in the woods where the killer is waiting. They know it isn't going to help, but it helps them deal with an unpleasant situation. The woman, like Slashdot, was dead the moment the scene started.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  79. Re:We don't know that. by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

    No, nothing of use there yet. But if you want the valuable low UID you had better sign up soon! I got my 3 digit UID already. Just in case this site crashes and burns and that one takes over as a useful substitute.

    --

    -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  80. Re:We don't know that. by runeghost · · Score: 1

    I just took a look at it (beta) again, and I can't even read summaries because there's not enough room to display them. The information density is terrible. But what's even worse than the Beta itself is what it reveals about the priorities of whoever greenlit it.

  81. Re:We don't know that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don't know that those predictions will come true. The fast majority of the F*ck Beta comments are coming from ACs. For all we know that could be a single individual or even a bot.

    Slashdot has always had disgruntled people participate with it. But a lot of postings by an AC really are worthless to base anything on.

    However, if slashdot dies because of this, it won't be because of Dice. It will be because like the dinosaurs, we couldn't adapt.

    I'm no dinosaur or a bot, Fuck Beta.

  82. Re: Beta delenda est! by fnj · · Score: 1

    It's not working very well.

    dig altslashdot.org
    Got answer:
    HEADER opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 26206
    flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1

    (Stupid slashdot renders garbage if I try to paste the entire output, no matter if I use <pre> or anything else).

  83. Re: Correct Authority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am slashdot.

    In a better analogy, you are one of the slashdot neurons. When enough of us leave (I'll be one of those) the slashdot "brain" will be only a rotting hulk of (Dicey) grey goo. Hint to Dice from Capt. Duh: You can generate revenue only if you have viewers - not a sufficient condition, but a necessary one.

  84. new generation of supercapacitors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would imagine this would have an amazing benefit in the world of capacitors and batteries.

  85. Re:We don't know that. by Graymalkin · · Score: 1

    To start: fuck the beta. Everyone involved in it should be ashamed of themselves.

    The comparison to dinosaurs is a bit ridiculous. Slashdot fucking itself over is not the fault of the users, especially disgruntled long time users. It's the fault of myopic management with delusions of grandeur.

    Slashdot is not a destination because it aggregates somewhat nerdy stories hosted on other websites. It is also not a destination because of the impressive grammar and spelling skills of the "editors".

    It's a destination because nerds with an interest in the stories published will come and opine on them. Not only will they opine but they'll provide additional details or corrections. That's not something readily found on other news aggregation sites. The user comments section of most websites is something to be avoided at all costs.

    The beta not only discourages the sort of commentary that has made Slashdot a worthwhile destination but the policies around it are driving away users. Without the users as a value-add Slashdot is really little different from any other news aggregator.

    --
    I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
  86. BETA HAIKU... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Always in beta,
    Sensuous is classical,
    broken so slashdot

  87. Re:We don't know that. by BlueKitties · · Score: 1

    Lets be real. Some of the users on /. are serious computer experts. It doesn't take a genius to setup a bunch of ACs across a botnet and spam a site. It just takes "that guy" who happens to have a botnet, and too much spare time, and bam.

    --
    "Sorrow is better than laughter, for by sadness of face the heart is made glad." [Ecclesiastes 7:3]
  88. Re:We don't know that. by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 0

    Maybe all the grammar nazis and goatse posting acs will go to the new slashdot and leave the rest of us in peace. Or they'll stay here and I can go there and be in peace.

  89. Re:We don't know that. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

    No, actually, I've been surprised by the number of real posts here against the beta, some of them with some incredibly low UID's.

    It's not the low IDs that matter. If the high IDs, i.e. new accounts, are also bitching, then maybe Dice might back off. Right now, they think that Betabortion will attract new, young, hip, ad-vulnerable users. If high IDs bitch about it, maybe they can be dissuaded from their determination to follow Digg into oblivion.

  90. Try by Sepodati · · Score: 1

    using bold or italics ?

    http://www.google.com/

    Link to Google.

    URL to a comment, I have no idea. I see how that'd be annoying.

    Okay, so you have to use "em" for italics...

    1. Re:Try by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It must have been the shitty old browser, then, because it didn't work for me. I'll try it on this notebook (but not my main browser).

  91. Oh, what the hell by abuelos84 · · Score: 1

    I wasn't going to join in the whinning but, what the hey.

    Something something BETA dark side!

    --
    -- Counting backwards since 1984!
  92. Re:Beta delenda est! by xevioso · · Score: 1

    It's my understanding that for 20% of the users, going to slashdot.org did in fact force people to the new beta.

  93. Re:I think we can all agree.. by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

    And you are associated with those ugly smelly nerds from the 1970s. But you have lower self-confidence and have to post from behind AC shroud. Fuck beta.

    --
    Chewbacon
    The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
  94. Re:I am in Beta Now, by the_other_chewey · · Score: 1

    Log off and try to log back in, I couldn't log in at work (they use IE7).

    While there is a lot of very valid crticism about all this beta stuff, this
    isn't one of them. IE7? Seriously? And you blame the website?
    Come on...

  95. Re:We don't know that. by q.kontinuum · · Score: 1

    I can sign up for wiki and phpbb account, but don't see any slashdot-like account which could be used, nor do I find an appropriate link in the wiki. Can you give a link, please?

    --
    Trolling is a art!
  96. Re:We don't know that. by HiThere · · Score: 1

    We don't really know that they won't fix the identified problems before imposing it on people who don't want it. We may have a strong belief, but that's not the same.

    FWIW, I'm not promissing to leave. But I'm sure not promissing to stay. It depends on what alternatives I can find, and how bad the final version is. Mind you, most of the explicit criticisms I've seen have been reasonable. But the strongly emotional ones, whether of praise or dislike (and both exist), don't convince me. What will convince me is utility...MY utility.

    FWIW, my hopes for a viable Slashdot are not high, but they do exist. And it would be nice if people didn't really totally abandon ship sooner than necessary....while continuing to work on and search for lifeboats, of course.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  97. "than" correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I saw "than" used correctly in a sentence, I was taken aback. It has been a long time.

  98. sites like alternet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean sites like alternet.org ?

  99. Re: We don't know that. by dustmote · · Score: 1

    Honestly, the beta protests annoy me far more than a fancy overhaul with the functionality put back in would. I wouldn't mind a classic portal or something for the retrocomputing enthusiasts to use, mind, but it could probably find a middle ground with the direction website interfaces seem to be going. I see where they're coming from, but I also understand the protests. Slashdot at its best is a dialogue-rich site, not a competing tech news aggregator. People don't want to sacrifice that, I get it. On the other hand, the comments are pretty much unusable now as well.

    --


    -1, "1337" speak
  100. Re:I am in Beta Now, by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    When you're not on your own computer you have little choice of browsers. I, for one, would be furious if someone installed anything on my computer without permission and I refuse to do it to anyone else.

    Maybe I'll try it in IE on my own laptop, not going to risk trying it in Firefox and getting stuck in beta. IE wouldn't even be on the laptop if I could uninstall it (too lazy to put Linux on it, W7 is "good enough").

  101. Re: Beta delenda est! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    Looks like they got slashdotted. I logged on today and they mentioned getting new hosting.

  102. Re:We don't know that. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    That puzzled me at first, too. The wiki is temporary, they say they should have the slashcode done Monday. Registering at the wiki registers you, registering at the forum doesn't, apparently.

    It looks like they got slashdotted yesterday. I hope they succeed, I got username mcgrew with a UID of 123.

  103. Re:We don't know that. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    Mine's 123! And I'm still mcgrew, like I am everywhere (except for a while on slashdot when I couldn't log in).

  104. Re:Beta delenda est! by Reziac · · Score: 1

    I just looked (for the first time in years). kuro5hin.org, despite having rather more inflammatory 'articles' than Slashdot, has at best about 1/5th the number of comments, and on brief perusal, appears to have maybe 1/10th as many unique users active in any given story.

    Or perhaps you really meant kuro5hin.com, which is even more empty, being it's a domain squat.

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  105. Re:fUCK BETA by Reziac · · Score: 1

    And my concern still stands:

    http://news.slashdot.org/comme...

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  106. good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how quickly will this be implemented by the bicycle lighting folks?

  107. Graphene should have been used... by vandamme · · Score: 1

    ...to lower the resistance to the Slashdot beta.

  108. Re:I am in Beta Now, by the_other_chewey · · Score: 1

    When you're not on your own computer you have little choice of browsers. I, for one, would be furious if someone installed anything on my computer without permission and I refuse to do it to anyone else.

    That's perfectly all right - I'm not blaming you. However, you should absolutely be
    blaming your IT department, IE7 is incredibly deprecated.

  109. Re:We don't know that. by q.kontinuum · · Score: 1

    Thanks for info! Lets see... I'm curious as well, but will probably stick around here as well. If they reach functional parity with their new software before making it default, I won't see a reason to abandon ship.

    --
    Trolling is a art!
  110. Re:Beta delenda est! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    Ten years ago they were thriving. I just checked their front page (first time in years for me as well). Only one or two stories per day posted on the front page, it sure doesn't look like it's thriving. Ten years ago there were as many front page stories per day as slashdot.

    What K5 looks like today is what /. will look like in ten years if they don't come to their senses.

  111. Re:Beta delenda est! by Reziac · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I remember when people here would commonly post links to one thing or another on K5. Can't recall having seen that in years.

    Did you see the video someone posted a link to, with Fark's design guy talking about how changing their interface was a major fuckup? Also had some very telling slides of another site that did likewise (I think it was another site -- the sound was bad) and experienced a precipitous drop in visits and therefore ad revenues.

    Unless the site is very, very quick to catch on and repent, this sort of customer service mistake is irrecoverable.

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  112. Re:We don't know that. by q.kontinuum · · Score: 1

    Dead all day, it seems... Slashdotted again?

    --
    Trolling is a art!
  113. Re:We don't know that. by JamieIanMacgregor · · Score: 1

    I'm only seeing a domain placeholder...??

  114. Re:We don't know that. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    It was slashdotted yesterday, today I got a 404. It has a new domain name, I can't remember what it is, soylent something dot org.

  115. Re:We don't know that. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    Apparently, I tried for a while and got it to almost load.

  116. Re:We don't know that. by JamieIanMacgregor · · Score: 1

    Thanks, yeah I've got through today but sadly there isn't any news content so no beta than beta at this stage.