Sony's Favorite Gadget Is Kinect

It's the ads by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-20 03:56 · Score: 3, Interesting

Microsoft started including ads on the xbox home page last generation. It was enough for me to entirely drop purchasing anything at all for it(and definitely not xbox 1). I had no reason to believe the PS4 is better in that regard, so they get ignored too.

Re:It's the ads by Sockatume · 2014-02-20 04:11 · Score: 1

Why did you have no reason to believe the PS4 was ad-free? It's not exactly a well-kept secret.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Re:It's the ads by Bender+Unit+22 · 2014-02-20 04:11 · Score: 1

I noticed that but I don't pay for the live part so I figured it was only non-subscribers that got those.
Re:It's the ads by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-20 04:13 · Score: 1

PS3 has ads for content you can buy on the system and occasionally sponsored content that gets ads (like the Toyota-backed LBP promotion), but nothing like the straight-up ad banners on Xbox. They're also only displayed in the store, "Internet" section of XMB, and in the little notification text scroll at the top, which is usually too short and scrolls to fast to read anything even when it's something you want to see.
Re:It's the ads by Tukz · 2014-02-20 04:24 · Score: 1

Where?
Please show me, I'm serious.
I have both a PS3 and a PS4, never seen an add on the "Springboard" or whatever the hell it's called.

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Re:It's the ads by interkin3tic · 2014-02-20 04:38 · Score: 1

So then it's not the ads that are making the difference between PS4 and xbox 1.
Re:It's the ads by Talderas · 2014-02-20 04:41 · Score: 3, Informative

Um. What the fuck are you talking about? If you have a game disk in the PS3 when you boot it up, the system will focus on the game disk option. If you boot the PS3 without a disk, it focused on the PS store and network options. If you put a game disk in, the menu will focus on the game sub menu and auto-load the game.

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"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
Re:It's the ads by Lumpy · 2014-02-20 04:42 · Score: 1

Isn't it wierd how Sony has become the good guys in the console world now? I'm actually looking to jump to ps4 from Xbox360 and Xbone.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:It's the ads by EvilIdler · 2014-02-20 04:48 · Score: 1

It's a frequent complaint from people in the US, but outside I don't think you get the scrolling ads without signing into a US account.
Re:It's the ads by beerdragoon · 2014-02-20 05:12 · Score: 1

I'm with you, I don't see any ads either. The only ones I see are when I hover over, or go into the PS Store app. I don't think this is unreasonable. If you are in or hovering around the PS Store, you might actually want to see ads about new or on sale content. This is like bitching about Steam showing you "featured products" when you click on the store link.
Re:It's the ads by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-20 05:24 · Score: 1

Mostly because I didn't care. Dropping Microsoft lead me into the loving arms of steam sales.
Re:It's the ads by Luckyo · 2014-02-20 06:32 · Score: 2

It's not. This is simply the power of consumer action at work. They tried to act allmighty after their runaway success with PS2 and consumers actually bought a lot less stuff and gave their money to the competitor, as a show that they did in fact have the money, they just didn't want to give it to Sony.
A company with leaders worth a dime make an analysis and draw conclusions from such a situation, which is exactly what Sony did here. They massively rolled back on anti-consumer items in their agenda and pushed hard to become more consumer friendly than competition. As a result, Sony became a much more consumer-friendly company in gaming world because of the power of consumer action.
At the same time, Microsoft is currently eating the same cake of consumer action that Sony was eating early in PS3/360 generation.
Frankly, if you are anti-company because of their actions, rather than because you have a "strong belief it's evil", you should both punish the company for bad actions as well as reward it for good ones. Both carrot and stick are important in making companies work for us rather that forcibly shove crap down out collective throats. It's important to punish Microsoft, and it's important to reward Sony at this stage, but preferably remind them of the punishing potential if they ever try to pull an XB1 of their own.
Re:It's the ads by UnknownSoldier · 2014-02-20 06:35 · Score: 1

> Sony was relatively good in the PS1 and 2 age.
Selective memory much?
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...
Re:It's the ads by CronoCloud · 2014-02-20 07:08 · Score: 1

Only if you have it boot to "What's New", you can turn that off.
Re:It's the ads by CronoCloud · 2014-02-20 07:14 · Score: 1

Oh come on, Lik Sang sold mod chips with the sole intent of enabling piracy. They deserved what they got.
As for the rootkit, Sony BMG didn't create the XCP software, they bought it from another company. It also was in limited use, only what 47 albums? And Sony BMG stopped using it.
Re:It's the ads by spire3661 · 2014-02-20 10:33 · Score: 1

You summed up exactly why i got a day-one PS4, even after they shit on my PS3 Linux and stifled Geohot. They listened, and its very apparent.

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Good-bye
Re:It's the ads by GNious · 2014-02-20 18:40 · Score: 1

Try the music-video option on the PS3: 1 song per 2 ads, and the ads often are the same, or at least from the same company.
(have let it run for a couple of hours, only getting ads for Braun!)
Re:It's the ads by Luckyo · 2014-02-21 03:55 · Score: 1

Let's hope it does. Ballmer leaving in spite of financial success strongly suggest that even the leviathan of Microsoft has started to turn to answer the trouble in consumer world created with win8 and exacerbated with xbone.

Social by ciderbrew · 2014-02-20 03:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

I wish they'd both make everything a lot less social and less connected. I don't want to go into another persons house if they have the NSA/GCHQ spy cam installed. I don't know what the police think I've done and come get me regardless. Think they wouldn't?
Luckily the games are awful so I've not need to buy either.

Re:Social by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-20 04:03 · Score: 2

Luckily the games are awful so I've not need to buy either.
I can't decide if games have gotten worse or my standards have gotten more exacting, but I definitely feel like there's a more-recent anti-intellectual undercurrent to games that really disagrees with me.
Re:Social by Sockatume · 2014-02-20 04:12 · Score: 3, Informative

You've completely missed the indie game movement, then. Gaming has never been so intellectually active.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Re:Social by Chris+Mattern · 2014-02-20 05:13 · Score: 4, Informative

Please, point me to these allegedly "intellectually active" indie games
Papers Please
Thomas Was Alone
Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons
Journey
Minecraft
There's lots more, but that'll do for starters.
Re:Social by SternisheFan · 2014-02-20 05:17 · Score: 1

I wish they'd both make everything a lot less social and less connected.
I agree, as I'm an 'old school' neckbeard. I just want to play a great game, and not be inundated with all the connected stuff.
I just recently got an XBox360, because it has a pre-existing library of great enough games that I can buy pre-owned for next to nothing.
I don't have the time to get involved with all this modern 'always connected' gameplay. I paid good money for the console, I want it to just work out of the box. Online features are a pain to constantly keep up with. And now a connected camera and microphone that's always on? Not needed, and not wanted. At least by me, YMMV
Re:Social by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-20 05:25 · Score: 2

No, I haven't. Papers Please, for example was excellent. I meant my criticism to be directed at the big publishers.
Re:Social by Sockatume · 2014-02-20 08:06 · Score: 2

You mean the sort of "bro games" market that has jumped up? I see what you mean, but to my eyes, that's a new side that has grown up (admittedly occasionally overshadowing) existing good game development.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Re:Social by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-20 08:10 · Score: 2

Nah, everything with a budget(feels like it) is shoved through a focus-group.
Re:Social by Sockatume · 2014-02-20 21:13 · Score: 1

Oh, I get you now. To me that's not "anti-intellectual", that's "sanding off the corners", although that's often passively anti-intellectual. For me the bigger issue with that approach is that often games are just a little bit too easy to drift through.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Re:Social by rochrist · 2014-02-21 06:07 · Score: 1

Maybe if you tried it, you'd understand. Or even made the slightest effort to research online all the pretty fucking amazing things people have done with it.
Re:Social by Fjandr · 2014-02-23 10:51 · Score: 1

Most things labeled "indie" only pretend to be intellectual. Most of them are just as shallow and full of shit as any big commercial product, just in a different way.

Not going to happen by H3lldr0p · 2014-02-20 04:00 · Score: 3

Microsoft is going to hold on to that thing for as long as they can. It's not going away for several different reasons.

The first and largest is that the Kinect is a product differentiater. It makes the XBone different from the PS4. There really isn't that much a difference between the two boxes otherwise. Fine, you can go on with the technical differences between the types of RAM and the custom silicon for the XBone's APU but those are not large concerns for Mom and Dad buying little Sally's birthday present.

Until MS comes up with something besides the software that makes their product different, the Kinect is going to hang on. But the second that happens, it'll be tossed. They know they've screwed the pooch here. They know exactly what it cost them in terms of customer relations and in terms of developers.

Re:Not going to happen by xombo · 2014-02-20 04:09 · Score: 1

The PS4 has a system similar to the Kinect on the PS4; the difference being that Sony's peripheral is optional.
Re:Not going to happen by tlhIngan · 2014-02-20 04:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

The first and largest is that the Kinect is a product differentiater. It makes the XBone different from the PS4. There really isn't that much a difference between the two boxes otherwise. Fine, you can go on with the technical differences between the types of RAM and the custom silicon for the XBone's APU but those are not large concerns for Mom and Dad buying little Sally's birthday present.
Until MS comes up with something besides the software that makes their product different, the Kinect is going to hang on. But the second that happens, it'll be tossed. They know they've screwed the pooch here. They know exactly what it cost them in terms of customer relations and in terms of developers.
My friend has an Xbone. It turns out Kinect is what caused his WIFE to monopolize it. Yes, his wife took over the Xbone. Playing Just Dance 2014, Kinect Fitness and other Kinect games.
Enough so it's hard to get him on his Xbone. (And apparently, his youngest kids are all seeing mom dance and doing it themselves. And no, he's responsible - they take their kids outside to play which is why his Xbone gaming time is limited - they purposely want to keep their kids from getting addicted so they only play normal games when the kids are in bed).
Apparently they also really, really, really like Skype on it - the Kinect "zooms" in on the person speaking.
Of course, a popular peripheral for the PS4 is the camera - which if it isn't used to stream amateur porn shows on twitch...).
I have both, and find myself playing the Xbone a lot more than my PS4 - the camera's just so-so ($60 for what amounts to two $10 720p webcams...), and PS4 controller battery life is atrocious.
The only really bad thing is, on the PS4, I'm not buying games on it - I'm just waiting for them to show up on PS+. I did buy two games, though, but those were on ridiculous sale.
And no, the "p"s don't matter to me - because I end up playing PS4 using my Vita and remote play - about the best feature the PS4 has over the Xbone. But it also means the p's don't matter because ou're just squishing it down to quarter-FHD (540p) for display on the Vita screen.
Re: Not going to happen by fermion · 2014-02-20 06:19 · Score: 1

I bought a 360. Thought the kinetic would be very much used. It made the video game a much more physical activity. Turns out we don't want a physical activity, or developers don't know how to create one. In any case the kinetic did not end up being a key part of the play.
It is instructive to recall that pundits and MS were saying something similar about Sony when they included the expensive bluray.

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"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Re:Not going to happen by Durdias · 2014-02-20 10:10 · Score: 1

Give it a few weeks and your friend will get his XBox back from his wife. The good thing about gimmicks is they're short lived.
Re:Not going to happen by spire3661 · 2014-02-20 10:36 · Score: 1

The Kinect is like a badass engine with no transmission. Yes the tech is great, but MS ham-fists it pretty badly.

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Good-bye
Re:Not going to happen by asmkm22 · 2014-02-20 11:45 · Score: 1

Problem is, most studios want to design their games to have similar experiences on the two platforms, if at all possible. Which is why we aren't going to see many 3rd party titles make much use of Kinect, other than for very basic and non-critical UI functions. Now, if the Xbox One proves to be a runaway success, and grabs huge market share, it's possible you'll see more developer adoption of Kinect features, which make the PS4 version look less fun in comparison (unless they have the Eye accessory). Unfortunately for MS, it appears that having various next-gen games running on Xbox at lower resolutions and quality than on the PS4, this is unlikely to happen. Especially since their best option now is to allow developers to use 100% of the GPU, rather than continue locking them out of 10% that gets dedicated for Kinect (even if it's not used).
Oh, and the price difference isn't helping MS any here either.
Honestly, I'm just still amazed that MS released a console that can't reliable handle 1080p at 60fps in the year 2014. It seems like most of their games are being rendered at 720p, and then upscaled (poorly) to 1080p. Simply amazing.
Re:Not going to happen by teg · 2014-02-20 19:42 · Score: 1

Microsoft is going to hold on to that thing for as long as they can. It's not going away for several different reasons.
The first and largest is that the Kinect is a product differentiater. It makes the XBone different from the PS4.
Indeed. The "price of Kinect" now is probably around 200$. Without the Kinect, the consoles are very similar - except for the XBox One being slower. Thus, if there was no Kinect they'd have to set the price be quite a bit lower than the PS4.
Re:Not going to happen by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 06:51 · Score: 1

I fail to see how the tech is "great," either practically or theoretically. Do you have any insights into why the technology itself is great or what these "great" practical game applications are for it, outside of a few niche categories like dancing games?
Re:Not going to happen by Fjandr · 2014-02-23 10:59 · Score: 1

And this is the sort of thing that leads to the generalization of the Slashdot membership being composed almost entirely of virgins, or at least those who are not capable of sustaining a relationship with a woman that doesn't involve large cash payments.

But that's the way Microsoft does things... by QuietLagoon · 2014-02-20 04:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

Microsoft still has the Windows monopolistic, dictate what the market wants philosophy. Microsoft is unable to function in a marketspace where they are not the monopolistic bully in the room.

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Maybe the new CEO will bring a change of attitude...

Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by CCarrot · 2014-02-20 04:57 · Score: 1

Microsoft still has the Windows monopolistic, dictate what the market wants philosophy. Microsoft is unable to function in a marketspace where they are not the monopolistic bully in the room.
This. Windows 8 Start Screen, anyone?
This is hardly new behaviour for MS lately. It's like they're deliberately sabotaging all of their flagship products.
I guess if you're big enough, you can do that kind of thing...for a while, anyways. Trouble is, once the avalanche starts, it's awful hard to stop it again...

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"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by marcosdumay · 2014-02-20 06:00 · Score: 1

To be fair, consoles always worked that way. The manufacturers try to guess what the market will like, build it, and throw it on the public. If they gess right, they are sucessfull, if they guess wrong, they are not.
There are very deep reasons for that way of working, so it won't go away, and is shared by all the manufacturers.

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Rethinking email
Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by CCarrot · 2014-02-20 07:06 · Score: 2

The Windows 8 start screen is way better than the start menu from previous iterations. The "type to launch" behavior is effectively the same as the start menu (actually faster and more robust) but the added screen real estate makes it easier to find programs if you need to actually look through the list for something.
Safe to assume that you don't know how to use Windows, much less Windows 8, if you're still carrying on with that idiotic position.
Nice shill, but no, it's not. If I want a Mickey Mouse interface I'll go to the Disney website, thanks.
The only thing that's saving Windows 8 is the availability of third party software that fixes the damn interface. Just because I have a 24" monitor doesn't mean I want to use all of it to select and open a single program...and even then, I'd still have to side-scroll to get to ones I don't use often. And 'type to launch' is a better approach, seriously? The only reason it might be considered as such is because nobody can find what they're looking for any other way...so it's a pre-emptive fix for a problem that they knew they'd have.
On a side note, I would be very curious to see the total Windows 8 installed base compared to the installed base for all of the Start Menu add-on programs. As it stands, this comparison of adoption rates between Windows 7 and Windows 8 is more than a little enlightening. And this is in an era where everyone has to have the latest 'shiny'...apparently you just can't shine up Windows 8 enough to make up for the Start screen, but you know how hard it is to polish a turd...which is a shame, because under the hood, Windows 8 has quite a lot going for it. Now if only I could find the hood-release lever :)

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"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by Darinbob · 2014-02-20 07:52 · Score: 1

The start menu is way better than the Windows 8 start screen. See, it's easy to play that game.
The type to launch is not better. I've tried it. It is impossible to browse by using type to launch. The start screen is a muddle mess; "all apps" is difficult to read through compared to the hierarchical start menu. And why the hell does it have to be FULL SCREEN? It'd ridiculous nonsense. The extra screen space is not helping find applications and shortcuts more quickly. The "all apps" could only appeal to the sort of person who tends to cover the desktop with hundreds of icons.
Please Bill, you're retired, time to get out of this argumentative stance.
Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by RightSaidFred99 · 2014-02-20 09:03 · Score: 1

Rubbish point. The idea of MS making the Kinect "optional" on the 360 is a non starter. It's not even worth discussing. They're going to make it some optional doodad some developers may decide to support like the original, where they had no option to make it mandatory with the 360? No. Of course not.
They had to make it mandatory and included with the One, and it's a bet on the future. Whether that bet pays off remains to be seen...
Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by rilister · 2014-02-20 10:22 · Score: 1

Funny, since that's what Sony themselves did by stuffing Blu-Ray into the PS3. They sacrificed a ton of market share by conceding the price-point (and arriving late to market) in the interests of forcing the market to adopt own their proprietary storage media format. It completely worked, and in the long run I imagine it'll turn out in their interests to have done so...

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Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by cbhacking · 2014-02-20 12:27 · Score: 1

The so-called "type to launch" feature (actually just the Start search tool) has been present since Vista. If you're using any version of Windows since then, and you ever expand the All Programs menu, you are frankly being a hidebound fool. Even when you know where the item you want to open is, Start search is way faster; I can launch a program before the Start menu *or* the Start screen finish their relevant animations, and mine is a very fast computer. If you *don't* know exactly where you're looking - that is, if you need to actually read item names - Search is absurdly faster. For one thing, it simultaneously searches on shortcut name, executable/document/whatever name, and description, so you have a far better chance of finding what you're looking for even if you aren't sure what it's called. For another thing, it's near-instant (much faster than the menu expansion times using the mouse).
My only gripe with Start in Win8 is that they segregated the result categories of the search (into "Apps", "Settings", "Files") so it now takes extra clicks to move between them. This is stupid, and in 8.1 they reverted it to the Vista/Win7 behavior where all categories are shown at once, and the top item (even if it isn't in the top category) is selected by default.
Unless you have some kind of keyboard use impairment or are on a pure-touchscreen device, using anything *except* the search tool in the Start menu (much less the Start screen) is a stupid way to waste your time and productivity.

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There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by Your.Master · 2014-02-20 12:34 · Score: 1

The start menu in Windows 7 wasn't good, but the screen is worse:
1. It's effectively a modal dialog. Modal dialogs are evil (most of the time): http://stackoverflow.com/quest...
2. By taking over the screen, it switches your context.
3. By taking over the screen, it makes it difficult to follow instructions like "press start, type 'blahblahblah', then hit enter" since it can't be onscreen at the same time.
4. The type to launch bizarrely offers fewer settings-related results than Win7 did, making it harder to launch those. Typing to launch is mainly helpful when I'm not sure exactly how to get there already.
Much as apparently some people hated the cascading menus of XP, I think that was the best start menu *except* that it didn't have type to launch. Type to launch was important enough that I dealt with the crappy start menu (you were able to go back to the cascading menu in at least Vista and probably Win7, but that disabled search, so it was a step back). There's no real equivalent advance in 8. They did add filtered searches, but the distinction between Settings and Programs is so vague that each of those categories is less useful than a combined category. And yes, just about any sensible person admits the start screen is better for a tablet, but on a mixed-input interface (whether or not touch is available) there is good reason to prefer the old small modeless menu.
Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 07:28 · Score: 1

The Apps/Settings/File segregation is great, they just need a way to cycle through them while typing. No idea why the Tab key doesn't do that.
Sorry to hear they've made changes in 8.1. Safe to assume that, like the useless start button, they haven't included an option to switch it back?
Really disappointing how Microsoft have responded to the (almost entirely baseless) Windows 8 criticisms.
Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 07:31 · Score: 1

1. Why? Who cares?
2. Who cares?
3. You can't remember "blahblahblah" for the half second it takes to type?
4. You're using type to launch wrong. You type the name (or part of the name) of the thing you want and hit enter. If you're not sure what that is, you stop and click/touch the thing you want when you see it in the list. If it shows fewer settings, that's because it's filtering out a lot of the bad results that Windows 7 would include.
Re:But that's the way Microsoft does things... by Fjandr · 2014-02-23 11:01 · Score: 1

They usually stop trying to push the same thing when it fails once though. That's what differentiates MS from many other companies.

Sony - our heroes! by RevWaldo · 2014-02-20 04:05 · Score: 5, Funny

http://i.imgur.com/KON0j7C.jpg

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Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!

Re:Sony - our heroes! by Darinbob · 2014-02-20 07:54 · Score: 1

Some of those were some good technologies by the way, that lost out to inferior alternatives.

It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by JDG1980 · 2014-02-20 04:06 · Score: 5, Interesting

The Kinect isn't the primary reason that the XB1 costs more and has worse performance than the PS4. The primary reason is that during the design phase, Microsoft's engineers overestimated the cost of GDDR5 RAM. As a result, they decided to go with DDR3 instead of GDDR5 for the 8GB of system memory, and compensate for the slower speeds by including a 32MB cache ("eSRAM") on the die. This cache is so large in terms of die space that it meant there was much less room for GPU – which is why the XB1 only has 768 shaders, compared to the PS4's 1152. Meanwhile, developers have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get decent performance out of the XB1 by carefully managing allocation of the on-die cache, while on the PS4 they can simply rely on all 8GB of memory being fast enough because it's all GDDR5.

So the result of this miscalculation is that the XB1 is more expensive to build (due to a faster die), more complex, and slower. Oops.

Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by Sockatume · 2014-02-20 04:09 · Score: 1

Those were decisions that should have made the Xbox One cheaper. It's basically the same architecture as the original Xbox 360, and is well-understood; by comparison the PS4's GDDR5 is luxuriously expensive. Kinect is definitely to blame.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by JDG1980 · 2014-02-20 04:50 · Score: 5, Interesting

Those were decisions that should have made the Xbox One cheaper. It's basically the same architecture as the original Xbox 360, and is well-understood; by comparison the PS4's GDDR5 is luxuriously expensive. Kinect is definitely to blame.
While GDDR5 is definitely more expensive, the price difference isn't that massive, at least when you are a company as large as Sony or Microsoft with the corresponding bulk purchasing power. This estimate indicates that Sony's 8GB of GDDR5 costs about $62, compared to $39 for Microsoft's 8GB of DDR3. Add to that the fact that Microsoft is paying more for a larger APU die to offset the RAM's weakness: roughly $132 compared to $121. (Those figures are estimates, but we know that the XB1 APU die is 363 mm^2, compared to 348 mm^2 for PS4.)
So when you factor the larger and more expensive die into the equation, Microsoft saved a grand total of $12 a unit by going with DDR3 – and in the process, reduced their graphics performance significantly. Like I said, the only sensible explanation is that the Microsoft designers drastically overestimated the cost savings of skimping on primary system RAM, and probably also underestimated the performance hit it would cause because of the die space trade-off.
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by Chris+Mattern · 2014-02-20 05:04 · Score: 2

Microsoft saved $12 going with DDR3. Granted this is much less than they expected, but they still saved money. So why is the XBone $100 *more*? The Kinect. The Kinect is what is killing them.
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by ZombieBraintrust · 2014-02-20 05:09 · Score: 1

But no one cares that much if the game runs in 900p or 1080p. Stores don't set up the consoles side by side with the same games. The consumer has to some digging to find out one is slightly better. The cost difference is because they have dozens of extra parts to manufacture, assemble, and eventually ship. There is also sunk costs they need to recapture from the Research and Develoment of the camera. Plus patents they need to license.
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by ericloewe · 2014-02-20 05:12 · Score: 1

The added cost of the silicon does not add 100 bucks, unless the yields are absolutely atrocious (they shouldn't be and there's no talk of them being so).
If there is a 100ish buck difference in manufacturing costs, Kinect is the main reason.
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by avandesande · 2014-02-20 06:41 · Score: 1

Another short-sighted aspect of this is that in time, outdated memory tends to go up in cost while newer memory goes down- considering the life of consoles this could end up being a real burden.

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love is just extroverted narcissism
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by Sockatume · 2014-02-20 08:07 · Score: 1

Well-argued, thanks.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by amorsen · 2014-02-20 08:31 · Score: 1

DDR3 and GDDR5 are contemporary standards. DDR3 is slightly older, but DDRx cycles last longer than GDDRx cycles, so they should both go obsolete at about the same time.

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Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by RightSaidFred99 · 2014-02-20 08:57 · Score: 1

Lol, utter rubbish. The Kinect is the primary reason it costs more, it's silly to argue that point. But they had to do it if they want the Kinect to take off and offer new sorts of gaming and entertainment options in the near future.
As for the performance argument, good thing I don't use my One to mine bitcoins or I'd be real upset about a small theoretical performance advantage (the One's GPUs are clocked higher, so the difference isn't as big as usually cited). In real games it makes no real difference.
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by JanneM · 2014-02-20 10:17 · Score: 1

"The review said the xbox game goes to 900 and the PS4 one goes to over 1000. Better get a PS4 to play it then."

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Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by spire3661 · 2014-02-20 10:46 · Score: 1

Keep in mind MS first party studios are a joke compared to Sony's. Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Polyphony Digital, Sucker Punch, Incognito and Guerilla are going to WIPE THE FLOOR with Xbox One in terms of graphical fidelity.

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Good-bye
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by Xest · 2014-02-20 21:01 · Score: 1

Fortunately though for Microsoft it just doesn't matter.
Last generation had the worst hardware do best, with the best hardware doing worst.
We got Minecraft, one of the single most succesful games of all time proving that it's not about the graphics.
Anyone who thinks the technical details matter at this point are completely missing the point.
More than anything the battle will be lost or won on marketing and exclusives. The real reason Microsoft is behind has really absolutely nothing to do with the hardware and everything to do with the fact that it got itself off to a catastrophic marketing failure from the off and it takes time to shake that image. Even here, a technical news site where people should be uptodate on technical news people still parrot nonsense about how Kinect is manadatory and spies on you (it isn't and doesn't, you can unplug it and everything works well, and there's no unexplained data transfers across the network that could be a video stream).
Microsoft needs to make it clearer than ever that the console no longer requires phone home (something even Steam requires FWIW) and that Kinect isn't mandatory to be plugged in. I disagree with the premise that Kinect should be made optional though, Microsoft made the right choice is ensuring it's standard precisely because it means we can have everything from a decent controllerless way of managing the console when using it as a media centre through to games where we can use hand signals and voice commands to order our squad or whatever. Because it's guaranteed to be available developers can put the proper amount of effort in to make it worthwhile because it's not just some addon that only a fringe few will have.
Full disclosure: I have all current gen consoles including the WiiU, I like them all for different reasons. In no cases is that reason hardware performance though - the WiiU is woefully underpowered compared to the PS4 and X1 but games like Pikmin 3 look absolutely fucking beautiful regardless and is perfectly smooth to boot.
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 08:09 · Score: 1

To be fair, Wii wasn't really playing the same game as PS3 or Xbox 360. To say that it "did the best" against them is actually a bit like saying that Kellogg's "did the best" out of PS3, Xbox 360, and Raisin Bran.
Re:It's not Kinect that gives the PS4 the edge by Xest · 2014-02-23 20:38 · Score: 1

How is the video game market not the same game?
Why do you think Sony made a big fuss about their wands and casual players and Microsoft the same with Kinect?

Kinnect by deadweight · 2014-02-20 04:10 · Score: 2

I have one someplace in a box. We used it about a month and decided it was useless crapware. The old WII does bowling SO much better than the kinnect is about the first thing you find out. It was always going out of area or not sensing the right motion and otherwise being useless.

Microsoft had another option to be different by Aqualung812 · 2014-02-20 04:11 · Score: 1

They could have gone without a disc.Make it like a Steam box.

There are rumors they considered it, and I wish they would have. Chances are they could have still bundled the Kinect and been at price parity without the BD drive.

I was really looking forward to the discless console. I don't normally resell my games, and I have a gamer family of 4 with multiple consoles. For me, it was a huge win to buy everything digital and never have it damaged, be able to play it on every device without buying a second copy, etc...
Plus, they had the option to cut out the distribution layer. Even if they didn't lower the price for the digital copy, more money would have gone directly to the developer, and I'm sure some of it would have also gone to Microsoft.

They majorly screwed up the PR around this, though, and backed out. When all of the "always on" rumors started, they should have jumped on it explaining all of the benefits of a digital download only model. Instead, they did a "no comment" and everyone focused on the negatives.

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Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by lord_mike · 2014-02-20 04:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

Diskless consoles are great in theory. After all, who wants to go around physically inserting discs like it's the 1980's or somethin?. But, it comes with a cost--the inability to buy used discs or discs from third parties at a discount will keep prices outrageously high for games. Yes, in theory, they could reduce the price to make up for savings from using physical media, but they won't. A $60 game (which is way too expensive to begin with), will always be $60 as a download, whereas a $60 disc can be acquired cheaper new at amazon.com or ebay, and even less used. The only way a disc-less console would be attractive to the cost conscious consumer would be if they would guarantee a significantly lower price for content--like $30. That would be a big selling point.
Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by MozeeToby · 2014-02-20 04:31 · Score: 1

I think you underestimate the number of people who don't have appropriate internet connections to make that work. Some people (more than you probably think) simply don't have consistent access to the internet. Then there's the fact that a single game can run 10s of gigabytes, for many people that is days of download time. Even for people with fast connections it can represent a significant piece of the monthly cap, Mediacom's standard package starts at 100 Gigs last time I checked but even at 200 or 300 that's still a significant chunk of the pie, especially when you consider the holiday season where Microsoft would like to see people buying multiple titles. Finally, I highly, highly doubt MS is paying $100 per blu-ray drive, I'd be shocked if they were paying $40, then you'd have to increase the HDD size to boot which is going to cost you another $10-15 (unless you only want a handful of titles installed at a time, which given the size of the games makes re-downloading a painful experience). So they could have maybe saved $30 per console... not enough to be worth all the headaches.
Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by darkwing_bmf · 2014-02-20 04:32 · Score: 1

But, it comes with a cost--the inability to buy used discs or discs from third parties at a discount will keep prices outrageously high for games.
Steam is diskless. It also has games that are just as cheap, if not cheaper, than used disk games (especially during sales). There are other benefits as well, such as no disks for the kids to scratch up or thieves to steal that you have to re-buy if you want to play again.
Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by Megane · 2014-02-20 04:32 · Score: 2

The other cost is if you require people to ONLY download games, they have to have a fast enough connection to make it worth it, and there is still a distribution cost to run download servers and give them bandwidth. Some parts of the world have metered internet, and some people may be on slower connections. It's also a trade-off between how long it takes to download, and how much you put into the game. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 5 inch piece of polycarbonate. It's still too early for a dickless console to succeed.

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Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by CronoCloud · 2014-02-20 05:33 · Score: 1

They could have gone without a disc. I was really looking forward to the discless console.
See that PS4 in the store? It can work that way if you want it to. Just download everything via PSN.
But still, the bandwidth of a truck full of Blu-ray's is rather high.
Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by The+Grim+Reefer · 2014-02-20 05:37 · Score: 1

They also have the problem that the company will not keep the servers active forever. I'm sure this won't matter to everyone. However, my 10 year old likes to play Atari 2600 games with me every so often. If I pay for something, I don't expect to be renting it.
Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by Ozymandias_KoK · 2014-02-20 06:34 · Score: 1

I disagree - and I don't think I'm alone here - I'd be a little leery of buying a console with a dick on it.
Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by Aqualung812 · 2014-02-20 09:43 · Score: 1

The first Xbox shipped with an ethernet connection when most people were on dial-up.
My point is that they could have played to the majority that have a high-bandwidth connection and leave the PS4 and the Xbox 360 for those that don't. Don't try to be everything to everyone.

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Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by Solandri · 2014-02-20 10:19 · Score: 1

A $60 game (which is way too expensive to begin with)
Eh, not really. A game cartridge for the Atari 2600 was about $25 in 1981. Adjusting for inflation, that works out to $64.33 in 2014 dollars. Game prices have been remarkably consistent over the years. Don't make the mistake of comparing game prices you saw as a kid with modern prices. You always need to adjust for inflation.

Also the Atari games were usually made by a couple of programmers with a few months of work (stuff you can buy for $0.99 on your phone now). Your 2014 game has a production crew as big as a movie's and takes 1-2 years of development. You're getting a helluva lot more gaming value for your $60 than I got as a kid.
Re:Microsoft had another option to be different by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 07:12 · Score: 1

Nope, haven't seen a PS4 in a store. They had stacks of Xbones in the window, with signs begging me to buy one, last time I walked past a Gamestop, though.

Re:ben kuchera is an idiot by Raistlin77 · 2014-02-20 04:12 · Score: 2

Idiot indeed. He doesn't even understand the meaning of his main point, "peripheral".

Peripheral (of a device): able to be attached to and used with a computer, although not an integral part of it.

The fact that it's included with every Xbox One doesn't make it any less a peripheral. It can be unplugged and doesn't even have to be connected in the first place.

For some it's not just a game console. by zolon · 2014-02-20 04:13 · Score: 2

I use the Kinect rather heavily. As I use my XBox One as a media center more than a game system, the Kinect plays a large role in my usage. I like not needing to find a remote control to do anything with my setup. Also, with Skype I am able to see my grand children, as they have an XBox One as well. The ease of use is such that even my wife, who is not a geek, is able to utilize the system. Now, could they have sold it as an add-on, or as a bundle option. Yup.

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Merf

Re:For some it's not just a game console. by Megane · 2014-02-20 04:40 · Score: 1

Also, with Skype I am able to see my grand children
Too bad for MS that grandparents aren't the market segment they were shooting for. Consoles are sold for little or no margin, or even below cost. The big money is in the "razor blades", aka games. How many games have you bought for that system?

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Re:For some it's not just a game console. by zolon · 2014-02-20 04:46 · Score: 1

Interesting, as I am in the targeted demographic. I'm below 45 years of age. (Step-Grandkids) As far as how many games I own for the console, at the moment I own all but 3. I am not really into FPS games on console (PC still wins that market in my eyes), yet I will be getting Titanfall on it.

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Merf
Re:For some it's not just a game console. by Xest · 2014-02-20 21:07 · Score: 1

Microsoft have a lot of digital content too. In my experience no one buys an X1 for just Skype, even if they're not primarily using it for gaming they're subscribing to and paying for some digital content and/or paying for Xbox Live Gold to access such features, so Microsoft cashes in pretty well even without games purchases.

Local source for Kinect for Playstation by Technician · 2014-02-20 04:14 · Score: 2

If you want one cheap and don't want to wait for delivery for your Sony, simply check your area thrift stores. They are almost as common as Guitar Hero Guitars, Microphones, and Wii Balance Boards.

FYI, the Rock Band/Guitar Hero microphones show up on a PC as a decent Logitech USB Microphone. Not a bad mic for under $5.

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The truth shall set you free!

Resentment built in by MCROnline · 2014-02-20 04:25 · Score: 2

If I were invested in the whole Xbox ecosystem I would resent having to shell out more for a device that basically brings nothing to the table as a gamer. Looking across at my PS4 'rivals' they basically get a more powerful console for a lot less money. To add insult to injury Xbox fanbois try and point out the flaws in the PS4 ecosystem, flaws which the XBox has too.. "Look, you have to pay for multiplayer now!", which although is a new added expense, was ALWAYS an expense for the XBox. Microsoft have already tweaked the XBox OS (Whatever its called) to reduce the CPU and memory usage of this device, but in doing so they admit that their console is the weaker of the two spec wise. All the way resisting the overwhelming public demand that they need to drop the requirement for the device and instead pushing their "living room agenda". In this day and age people are price conscious, Microsoft forgets this. Sure there are exclusives that tempt people to drop cash on an XBox, but the financial difference is so large, this "exclusive" system doesn't have the pull it once had. Microsoft needs to drop the mandatory add on requirement before its too late.

Re:Resentment built in by Lumpy · 2014-02-20 04:38 · Score: 2

If you are invested int he Xbox ecosystem the Xbone has no advantages. Nothing crosses over, your games all will not work with the new system. Microsoft was stupid to not allow xbox360 games to run on it to make it easier for people to transition across.
I think the reason is that most people would notice that it is not that much better than the Xbox360 so why even buy it.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Resentment built in by kamapuaa · 2014-02-20 20:45 · Score: 1

No, that makes no sense and is obviously not true. I think the reason is the difficulty of emulating a multi-chip hardware.
People are easily able to compare one system to another, even if they are physically two different systems. Of course.

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Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.

but how profitable is it? by Charliemopps · 2014-02-20 04:29 · Score: 2

This reminds me of way back in the day when SOE increased the subscription to Everquest from $9.99 to $15.99 per month. Everyone decried it as the end to SOE, because they lost about 30% of their accounts (mostly alt accounts) But they were wrong, it was a great plan financially. If you have 100 users @ $10/month you're making $1000/month. If you have 67 customers @ $16/month you make $1072 AND you have less overhead. Also, a lot of those users eventually came back at the higher rate. SOE was making more money than ever and had fewer customers to serve. Not only that, but they set the standard for all their future MMOs and in fact, the industry in general settled on that rate.

So the question isn't in the popularity of the xbox, it's the profitability. If the Kinect makes each user more valuable via marketing and such, then the lower number of users may be a moot point. The only question is: Just how valuable will that marketing data be?

Re:but how profitable is it? by vux984 · 2014-02-20 05:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

(mostly alt accounts)
This is incorrect. They lost mostly casual infrequent players. The multi-boxing alt players raised the biggest stink because they were heavy players, heavily invested, and their little hobby got a lot more expensive on them overnight, but the 'silent majority' that left were the more casual players.
If you have 67 customers @ $16/month you make $1072
Slightly better than break even, but at the cost of marketshare in an business where "critical mass" is crucial to growth and sustainability.
AND you have less overhead.
Again, incorrect. As they lost mostly casual infrequent players they lost the group of users that weren't really costing them anything in the first place. They lost the people who were playing once or twice a week for a couple hours.
The 'hardcore' crowd sucked it up, they were getting a 100 to 200 and beyond hours per month of entertainment so even at $15 per month, even for $15 per month for a couple accounts it was still good value. But the casuals dropped like flies. And new players similarly dropped the game.
And you needed those casuals playing, they formed up the feeder guilds that provided new players someone to play with and learn the ropes until they were ready move to the raiding guilds.
Also, a lot of those users eventually came back at the higher rate.
But most didn't, and a lot of people who'd have joined at $10 didn't join. And as you said, the price jump set the standard for the industry, and a lot of people who were playing 2 or 3 MMOs cut a title as a result.
Plus SOE wanted $30+ bucks for a new expansion every 3 months, adding effectively $5+ / month to play since most expansions were nearly indispensible -- between the new convenience features they added, and the fact that it was usually tough to find anyone to play with outside the latest expansion zones the vast majority of players kept up with expansions, even the casuals.
Not only that, but they set the standard for all their future MMOs and in fact, the industry in general settled on that rate.
And now they are nearly all Free 2 Play with premium tiers, which is what they should have done back then. (Although SOEs Free2Play restrictions even today border on asinine -- why can't you move the XP / AA slider on a silver account in EQ2? At least they finally removed item unlockers and "frequent upgrade reminders" but they still haven't got the 'mix' right in my opinion.
So the question isn't in the popularity of the xbox, it's the profitability.
Short term profitability vs long term sustainability. Giving up some profit today to make more over the course of the games life cycle is worth it. That 30% of the accounts they lost stopped buying expansions, stopped introducing new players (some of which would have become core players) etc.
Trust me it wasn't mostly 'alts'. They were just the loudest group of complainers that STAYED.

I've never understood... by lord_mike · 2014-02-20 04:32 · Score: 1

....all the hatred for Kinect. People cite privacy and all that, but the hatred for Kinect goes back much farther than that. There was incredible hatred for the device at the initial release well before there were any privacy concerns. That's a shame, since it is the most innovative thing that Microsoft has ever developed. Download Kinect Party and play the demo for awhile--it's incredible that they actually were able to make something like this even work!! I have always thought it was very cool. The kids love it--a lot of them don't even know how to play a standard controller game. In fact, the only real "failure" of the Kinect system was by developers failing to realize its full potential. The reason it wasn't "optional" in the XBox One was that it's an important interface into the whole system--ideally, with its incredible revolution, it would also act as an add on controller in games (although that's not been realized, yet). I don't understand why people clutch so tightly to their 20 year old controllers like it's the Bible. Can't we try something new?

Re:I've never understood... by jeffmeden · 2014-02-20 05:33 · Score: 1

....all the hatred for Kinect. People cite privacy and all that, but the hatred for Kinect goes back much farther than that. There was incredible hatred for the device at the initial release well before there were any privacy concerns. That's a shame, since it is the most innovative thing that Microsoft has ever developed.
That, and oddly enough a shitload of people bought the original Kinect, despite the hatred by the gaming elite. A ton more people bought the 360+Kinect combo. Did every one of them love the Kinect games, probably not. The kinect, to its credit, was the thing that finally gave the 360 the edge over the Wii, despite it costing a ton more to get a 360+Kinect than a Wii, people ate it up. And now we have more haters saying they dont want the Kinect with the One? Go sell it on ebay and quit whining, you are a minority and most people love the Kinect features.
Re:I've never understood... by DdJ · 2014-02-20 05:42 · Score: 1

....all the hatred for Kinect.
In my case, it comes from owning one for my 360.
First, the requirements for a space to use it fully are absurd. I do not have a tiny living room, but the way it's laid out, I can't use the amount of floor space that Kinect games "want" me to. The optimum viewing distance from my TV is taken up by a couch and an easy chair, and there's an actual wall right behind them.
Second, Microsoft got so excited about using the Kinect for non-game purposes that they virtually destroyed other modes of interaction. The home screen and tabs and so on for the 360 are now so optimized for the Kinect that they're more awkward to navigate with a standard controller. Sure, the "home" UI started to degrade back when the "NXE" was introduced, but the newer tile-based scheme is even more terrible. (In particular, navigating lists now involves list items that are very large so they're easy to "hit" with the Kinect, which ends up meaning far fewer items per "page".)
(Basically, the Kinect did to the XB360 for controller users what touch screens did to Windows 8 for keyboard-and-mouse users, if you follow my meaning.)
The Kinect is still physically attached to my 360, but it's turned off almost all the time now. The only time it's turned on is when my nephew comes over and wants to play "Kinectimals" (the only Kinect-based game I use that I think is actually improved by the peripheral -- I might add "Dance Central" to that, but that game is too impacted by the floor space requirements discussed above, so it's impractical for me to play).
All that said, I'd still have considered the XB1, Kinect and all, if it had come with solid backwards compatibility. But it didn't, and so I have absolutely no investment that the XB1 could leverage. Starting from a clean slate, the Kinect is, for me, a huge strike against the XB1, based on my extended experience of actually having used the original version.
Re:I've never understood... by deadweight · 2014-02-20 06:52 · Score: 1

I got one and it - IMHO - sucked. You needed to be too far back to fit in the living room. It was too narrow a view. The novelty wore off very fast when yoou got tired of it not resolving your movements correctly.
Re:I've never understood... by Kaenneth · 2014-02-20 07:24 · Score: 1

I've seen 3rd party lenses that contract the space requirements, didn't need it myself, but they exist.
Re:I've never understood... by DdJ · 2014-02-20 07:32 · Score: 1

I've seen 3rd party lenses that contract the space requirements, didn't need it myself, but they exist.
I actually tried one that a member of the Xbox team recommended. It very much did not work for me. YMMV, I suppose. That wouldn't have covered all of my complaints anyway, even if it had worked.
Re:I've never understood... by spire3661 · 2014-02-20 10:49 · Score: 1

Kinect is definitely some cool tech, but its price/value proposition sucks.

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Good-bye

It's also hated by most players. by Lumpy · 2014-02-20 04:35 · Score: 3, Interesting

Every single Xbox owner I know that has a Kinect does not use it at all. the games for it suck, even Forza Horizon had support for it but it rarely works right. and if you have windows behind you it fails completely.

The $100 difference does make a difference as well, I know a lot of hardcore console gamers looking at the PS4 instead of the Xbone this time around, and they were Xbox360 hardcore fanboys.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.

Re:It's also hated by most players. by rwa2 · 2014-02-20 05:30 · Score: 2

So I don't really game console, but I hear Child of Eden was maybe the only game that used Kinect right, and it's pretty much an abstract musical game that lets you shoot lasers from your hands.
I did get a PS2 and a nice wheel to play GT4... and now that the PS4 is out I might shell out for a used PS3 so I can play GT6. But yeah... Playstation tends to have a few really good exclusive titles, while XBox tends to just be a cheaper and easier to use (well, OK, "dumbed-down") gaming PC. But I already have a gaming PC, so.
Which is a shame, since I used to work next to the Forza devs, and have to admit the 3-screen setup with a good wheel / shifter / pedals they have in their lobby feels awesome. But XBox never supported the somewhat-affordable Logitech G25 / G27 wheel, and I'm not going to shell out 2 - 3x as much for the slightly nicer German racing wheel / shifter that does work with an XBox or three that I don't have.
Re:It's also hated by most players. by DdJ · 2014-02-20 05:44 · Score: 2

So I don't really game console, but I hear Child of Eden was maybe the only game that used Kinect right, and it's pretty much an abstract musical game that lets you shoot lasers from your hands.
I think it's worth noting that the Kinect support in "Child of Eden" is optional. I got the game, and played it Kinect-style for a little while, but ended up getting too tired too quickly to get very far.
Fortunately, you can also play with a standard controller, as if it were just an updated version of "Rez". And that's the only way I play it now.
Re:It's also hated by most players. by CronoCloud · 2014-02-20 06:06 · Score: 1

But XBox never supported the somewhat-affordable Logitech G25 / G27 wheel
[Don Draper moment] What? [/Don Draper moment]
I thought the 360 supported the same wheels the PS3 did, via USB. That sucks for the Xbox-ers.
Re:It's also hated by most players. by GoodNewsJimDotCom · 2014-02-20 06:40 · Score: 1

I don't like a single Kinect game. The controls are wacky, and the games have a wide open win condition because of this. That said, the next gen Kinect(3.0, 4.0?) might be able to capture punches/kicks in real time. Then you'll have the fighting game with real punch+kick action. Maybe have a 360 room display, so you can look around and see critters come up to you. Sure this would only work in mini-arcades. Or maybe use Occulus. Walking could be determined if you're standing off center from the middle of the room, your speed determined by how far off center you are. The key is that the room needs to be completely empty of everything, which probably just invites lawsuits. News Headline: Another man punches his best friend in the face because of Occulus Rift + Mortal Kombat.

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God spoke to me
Re:It's also hated by most players. by spire3661 · 2014-02-20 10:51 · Score: 1

Noooooooo, ALL Xbox peripherals have to be signed by MS. (except flash drives etc)

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Good-bye

Re:ben kuchera is an idiot by rcamera · 2014-02-20 04:38 · Score: 1

just wait until he realizes that his keyboard and monitor are "peripherals".

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Cruel Inversion by StikyPad · 2014-02-20 04:44 · Score: 2

pushing a product on the public with the hope that it will be useful once we have it is a cruel inversion of how product adoption should be handled.

Nonsense. People buy a product like a game console speculating that they will get future use out of it. This doesn't always pan out, as many second and third-gen consoles can demonstrate quite well. You can certainly make the argument (and I believe the author has) that the XBone raises the risk too high, and that's a valid point, but the only inversion going on here is the one between reality and wishful thinking.

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Re:I agree by Nyder · 2014-02-20 04:48 · Score: 4, Funny

I don't want to see McDonalds garbage every time I play a game. ...

Then maybe you should clean your basement up before you game.

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Be seeing you...

Sarcasm by ZombieBraintrust · 2014-02-20 05:00 · Score: 2

Yes exactly like drug addicts. We hold jobs, have families, live long lives, and stay out of trouble with law enforcement. Exactly like drug addicts.

Re:Sarcasm by kamapuaa · 2014-02-20 05:30 · Score: 2

Well to be fair that's also true of most drug addicts.

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Re:Sarcasm by Kremmy · 2014-02-20 06:14 · Score: 1

While expending a portion of those resources to maintain the fix. The idea that you don't qualify given having a job, living a long life, and staying out of trouble with law enforcement shows that you have very little experience with actual drug addicts and may in fact be one yourself - even if the drug is video games.
Re:Sarcasm by Fjandr · 2014-02-23 10:56 · Score: 1

Most of the addicts I've known do all those things. None of them are incompatible with addiction. At all.

A typical Microsoft maneuver by korbulon · 2014-02-20 05:04 · Score: 1

The sort of thing they're well known for, basically the MO of MS: force an unpopular product/feature onto an existing client base and just expect them to suck it up now or wait for the "corrected" release (the next version). Either way, they'll pay eventually.

And yet in spite of this institutionalized douchebaggery, they somehow keeping making money. Someone please remind me again how up is down, black is white. What a world.

Re:Haters by DanSSJ4 · 2014-02-20 05:08 · Score: 1

And you could have bought the Kinect separately for this purpose just like the Wii Fit Balance Board.

$100 piece of exercise equipment is cheap, but $500 for a console with hardware inferior to the $400 alternative doesn't make any sense.

I like playing rockband, but packaging every console with a guitar and set of drums wouldn't make much sense either.

Making everyone buy it just because you like it doesn't make sense.

Sega Anyone? by triffid_98 · 2014-02-20 05:10 · Score: 2

As much as I'm not in favor of an always on camera controlled by a shady mega-corporation, anyone who lived through the late 80's-early 90's knows how little third party support you get when you have optional components.

I'm sure there were plenty more, but here are a few off the top of my head. (for the Genesis) Sega CD, Sega 32x. (for the NES) Powerglove, (for the Saturn) Twin-Stick, (for the PS2) Trance Vibrator, (for the DC) omg...so many. Maracas, Fishing Reels, Mice, Keyboards, Microphones, Cameras, etc.

None of the above got much love from developers, because of market fragmentation. The good news (for DC owners) was that those controllers allowed flawless ports of their arcade titles since you had the same controller setup...and also the Trance Vibrator is both super creepy and clearly brought to you by the same minds that created tentacle rape pr0n.

Re:Sega Anyone? by phishen · 2014-02-20 05:25 · Score: 1

Good point. And how many games did you try out just because they supported the NES Zapper? Hogan's Alley, anyone?
Re:Sega Anyone? by fsck-beta · 2014-02-20 06:15 · Score: 1

Trance vibrator, maracas, fishing reels, etc were third party peripherals, not by Sega. Sony was the manufacturer of the trance vibrator. Sony published Rez in Japan where it came with the vibrator.

Re:I agree by marcosdumay · 2014-02-20 05:47 · Score: 1

Maybe because both consoles are bought by different people, with different priorities.

If Microsoft keeps showing the ads for a few more years, people'll stop complaining about them too... Because everybody that care about them won't buy one anymore.

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Re:I agree by JohnNemesh · 2014-02-20 06:01 · Score: 1

PS3 doesn't put the ads right on your home screen, front and center. BIG difference. On my 360, I would have 5 or 6 "live tiles" with ads, and 3 useful buttons. The "metro" design is great for shoving ads down your throat, less useful for actually using the console. Due to this, and many other reasons, I cancelled my XBL subscription and refuse to buy any more Xbox titles. I instead subscribed to PSN...and instantly had access to SEVERAL free "AAA" titles for download, plus games for the Vita and the PS4. MS isn't seeing a red cent of my money until they get rid of "metro" (on ALL platforms).

NES Robot by slapout · 2014-02-20 06:06 · Score: 1

So you're saying it's like the NES robot?

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Science disagrees. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-20 06:30 · Score: 2, Informative

Says you.

"Recent research conducted by independent investigators concerning the relationship between crime and narcotic (primarily heroin) addiction has revealed a remarkable degree of consistency of findings across studies. The major conclusion supported by the majority of these studies is that narcotic addicts commit a vast amount of crime and that much of this is directly related to the need to purchase drugs. A large proportion of the crimes committed does not consist merely of drug sales or possession, but involves other criminal behaviors including serious crimes. The strongest evidence of a causal relationship between narcotic drug use and crime is derived from longitudinal studies in which the amount of crime committed during periods of active addiction far exceeds that committed during periods of nonaddiction."

http://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Abstract/1985/02000/The_Criminality_of_Narcotic_Addicts.6.aspx

Re:Science disagrees. by Shirley+Marquez · 2014-02-21 11:39 · Score: 1

What this says is that making drugs illegal (and thus horrendously expensive) has negative social consequences. Back in the 19th century there were solid citizens who were addicted to drugs, but they were able to support their relatively inexpensive habits with their work or family income so they didn't need to turn to crime.

Re:That doesn't seem right... by petermgreen · 2014-02-20 06:57 · Score: 1

Price is set by companies based on their assessment of supply and demand, not cost.

Price is set by companies in an attempt to maximise their profit, supply and demand is part of that but cost is also important.

They can afford to take a small loss on each console early in the generation where they are trying to build market share in the expectation they will make it up later through game sales and through having a better market postion later in the generation but there are limits to how big a loss can reasonablly be taken.

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You mean that's the way Apple does things by Overzeetop · 2014-02-20 07:09 · Score: 1

I know, hold off on the troll mod for just a second...

Seriously, Apple has always taken the "my way or the highway" stance. You WILL use MP4s. You WILL have a fingerprint reader. You WILL have the iTunes store. And, sonofabitch, it's working for them. And it's not even Apple - every manufacturer does this. There's all sorts of weird or in-house developed features which could be optional but which aren't because making it optional doesn't serve the purpose of the manufacturer.

I like to hate on Microsoft as much as the next guy, but this isn't some special Microsoft dance.

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Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?

Advantage by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-20 07:13 · Score: 1

Oh, sure, you think it's creepy. Maybe I think it's kind of erotic - you know, someone could be watching any time. Hell, we do it in the room with the kinect 'cause maybe somebody is watching. It's like doing it in the park after hours. Sure, there's probably nobody around, but you're gettin busy and, really, anybody could be watching.

This story is stupid by bmajik · 2014-02-20 07:20 · Score: 1

The original Kinect hardware was one of the fastest selling consumer electronics devices in history.

http://www.1up.com/news/kinect...

That was when it was an optional add-on.

My kids play X360 games via connect exclusively.

I mostly play FM4 on the 360, with a racing wheel. In fact, the only time a controller gets used is to navigate DVD menus.

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My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

You mean his mom's basement, right? by mick_S3 · 2014-02-20 07:35 · Score: 2

You mean his mom's basement, right?

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A gin in the hand is worth two in the bottle.

Re:You mean his mom's basement, right? by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 06:39 · Score: 1

No, it's _his_ basement. Mom said he can do whatever he wants with it, as long as she can still get to the washer and dryer.

I'll try not to bite your head off but.. by kmg90 · 2014-02-20 08:04 · Score: 2

The Xbox One does not use the same architecture as the 360, the 360 (and PS3) uses the PowerPC architecture which isn't used much any more. The Xbox One and the PS4 both utilize x86 architecture. The only thing the Xbox One and 360 have in common hardware-wise is use of a smaller secondary cache of RAM that is faster than standard memory. The Kinect costs around $75 to manufacture and even if they cut the price down $399 for a system that didn't include the Kinect they would be loosing over $20 on every system sold (The Xbox One base system costs more to make than PS4 base system) Microsoft messed up big time as they are stuck with the system that costs more to make but offers less power than its major competitor (PS4)..

Re:I'll try not to bite your head off but.. by rochrist · 2014-02-21 06:41 · Score: 1

Kind of why it's winning. Sony made a game machine for playing games. Funny how that works, innit?

Re:Haters by RightSaidFred99 · 2014-02-20 08:51 · Score: 1

You're missing a fairly obvious point. Without it coming bundled, developers must fragment based on (has_Kinect). It's a shitty way to do things, and this article is idiotic.

With a guaranteed Kinect, developers can start to use it in either subtle or in grand ways.

Re:They care about graphics performance by RightSaidFred99 · 2014-02-20 08:59 · Score: 1

Bullshit argument. The One and PS4 both have noticeably better graphics capabilities than the 360/PS3 when fully utilized. Performance is needed, but the small difference between the PS4 and One will be consumed by differences in programmer abilities, architecture of the game, and other optimizations.

Re:ben kuchera is an idiot by RightSaidFred99 · 2014-02-20 09:01 · Score: 1

Oh, no. It's idiotic. MS had no choice but to include Kinect, you don't want to fragment your developers and make them decide to use Kinect or not based on who has one. Of course, given a fresh start, MS had to include the Kinect so it was guaranteed to be available. Anything else is idiotic and not worth considering as a valid opinion.

Re:I agree by Cinder6 · 2014-02-20 09:19 · Score: 2

It's the type and placement of ads that makes all the difference.

The PS4 has no ads on the main screen (I just checked). The ads they have in the store are for games and other things the store offers (such as DLC and movies). This is expected and reasonable.

On the 360 (I don't have an Xbone, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same way), Microsoft was well-known for placing large ads on the main screen. These ads would more often than not be for non-gaming items, such as Mountain Dew.

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If you can't convince them, convict them.

Re:ben kuchera is an idiot by spire3661 · 2014-02-20 10:41 · Score: 1

To be fair, MS WANTED it to be integral, to the point of sticking the Xbox One in a loop until the Kinect was plugged in.

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Good-bye

I would buy it by samantha · 2014-02-20 13:49 · Score: 1

There is a lot of very cool tech in and that can be built around a Kinect.

Obvious trol bait is obvious. by SpryGuy · 2014-02-20 15:24 · Score: 1

Obviously. (rolling eyes)

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Where have all the nerds gone? by Dorianny · 2014-02-20 16:53 · Score: 1

I cannot believe that on a site that bills itself as news for nerds, we are slamming Microsoft for taking the bold step of bundling what is the most advanced motion sensing, image/voice recognition system available outside of DOD contractors with a gaming console and doing it for just $100 more than its otherwise similarly spec'd competitor. For everybody that complains that the kinetic should have been sold separately you got to remember that because of the lower volume and the added cost of packaging, advertising, etc a standalone kinetic would be priced in the $150-$200 range. Microsoft did its part, now its up to nerds to see where we can take it.

Re:Where have all the nerds gone? by N0Man74 · 2014-02-21 05:02 · Score: 1

Just because it has the potential to be cool, doesn't mean that it also can't be a frequent annoyance that added to the price.

Wrong by DarthVain · 2014-02-21 04:22 · Score: 1

The reason why they went with DDR3 VS DDR5 is the fact that when they were doing the design work, there were serious questions about the availability of DDR5, whereas DDR3 was plentiful. They didn't want to design something that might be production limited. The PS4 on the other hand went with DDR5 and there seems to be enough, however if BOTH systems tried to use it in their production, there is a good chance that one or both systems would not be able to acquire enough DDR5 to meet production demands.

Microsoft offset this by making modifications to the AMD chip adding a small amount of really fast on chip memory to swap with, So while the over all bandwidth might not be the same, the difference is not solely connected to that one value. By all accounts I have seen there is very little real world difference, and likely in most cases there may be some games that are better or worse depending on which system configuration you use it in.

So no, it wasn't about RAM costs, but about RAM production availability, and in the end it doesn't really matter much either way. Perhaps down the road it might make some difference, but then again some speculate that later versions of the XBOX ONE may use DDR5 anyway once supply is established further making it a moot point.

Re:I agree by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 06:37 · Score: 1

Metro tiles are fine in the Windows 8. The full screen apps make less sense on a desktop, but not necessarily no sense in every situation. If Microsoft made all of the Metro apps able to operate in either full screen or standard desktop modes at the user's discretion (similar to Chrome for Windows 8) there'd be absolutely no problem with it on desktop.

I can imagine it's the worst on a TV, where everything has to be bigger and you're using a controller, but Xbox interfaces have always been horrible and I gave up on mine years ago.

Re:ben kuchera is an idiot by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 07:44 · Score: 1

Not including Kinect at all was always an option. Microsoft have still never made the case that such technology, even if it had bullet proof performance (which it doesn't), is in any way beneficial outside of a few niche categories of games. What's the gameplay application that Kinect does better than a controller with buttons and a headset?

Some of their user-recognition stuff is cool, but it's not something I can see a ton of people ponying up $100 for when there's no compelling case that it will improve the core functionality of the machine. Now, if it were flawless (or close enough) with the non-gaming stuff, I could see the argument there as well, although they're then stuck with the same losing battle they have now of convincing people to care about those features in the first place.

Before asking whether or not it's idiotic for Microsoft to include Kinect in every box, consider seriously if it needs to be in _any_ box. They've had years with the original to come up with a good reason why it should, and if they had one it should have been out at launch for Xbone. It wasn't so I think we can all agree that they don't have a good reason other than a $500 standalone competitor for what most people have built-in to a new TV.

Re:Haters by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 08:22 · Score: 1

What's the compelling gaming application for Kinect? Microsoft have had years to come up with one and release a game demonstrating it, yet they've never once even publicly mentioned such an application. Now maybe bundling it with the console will sell a few more copies of Dance Central or whatever, but where's the value for anyone else?

Re:The Kinect could have been awesome. by ynp7 · 2014-02-21 08:26 · Score: 1

Would anyone want to play a fighting game with it if it worked? How would that be a "killer app" when the key component of physical feedback is entirely missing?

They don't have any good launch titles demonstrating its "full potential" because the full potential of Kinect in a gaming context is apparently Dance Central. That's fine and good and all that, and people look like they're having fun when they play it, but is that the kind of game that most people buying a game console will want to pay an extra $100 for up front?

There are lots of arguments in favor of including a Kinect in every box, I just don't see _any_ that are relevant to people who buy that box because they want to play games.

Re:I agree by DarwinSurvivor · 2014-02-21 09:46 · Score: 1

Agreed regarding the PS3. The only ads I ever see are in the "what's new" area (what else would you put there?) and the store. Also, they are limited to adds about games that you can buy, so it's not like I'm seeing Burger King ads or something.

Re:Haters by RightSaidFred99 · 2014-02-21 11:25 · Score: 1

You mean other than people who use the Xbox for media applications, use voice control for other reasons, play games like you mention or sports/exercise games, play Zoo Tycoon or any of the other dozens of Kinect games now or the many in the pipeline? Other than all the other potential new types of games and apps that Kinect could enable?

Umm, yeah. I guess you got me there. Other than all of that I can't think of the value for "anyone else".

Re:Social - Try Kerbal Space Program by lucien86 · 2014-02-21 11:27 · Score: 1

Since no ones mentioned it yet Kerbal Space Program - a game that's so intellectual its literally for real rocket scientists. A game that can/will teach about real space travel far more effectively than just reading books or documentaries. Just try docking two ships, or even the first stage of putting a ship into orbit.
And the best thing? is that once you get hooked its extremely addictive and compulsive.(I had one session where I played continuously for 56 hours.. :D)

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Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..

Wait a year... by Shirley+Marquez · 2014-02-21 11:41 · Score: 1

Now that there is a console that comes with Kinect, the game developers of the world are working on games that will take advantage of it. When it was an optional peripheral, not much game development was aimed at Kinect because the market was too small.

Re:I agree by arglebargle_xiv · 2014-02-21 21:36 · Score: 1

My biggest gripe with the PS4 so far is that I can't put a music cd in it and listen to it,

My biggest gripe is that when I put a DVD in it I get some error message about it being the wrong region. Even my $20 Chinese-made DVD player does better than that. How could Sony ship a product with a bug this fundamental?

Re:Haters by ynp7 · 2014-02-23 11:24 · Score: 1

Yes, those core gaming applications like watching movies, watching sports, or "using voice control for other reasons." Fuck off.

jordan shoes wholesale http://www.shoesctv.com by jasiwevc · 2014-02-26 03:33 · Score: 1

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Sony's Favorite Gadget Is Kinect

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